From time to time Barbados Underground (BU) will highlight comments which we feel will further the debate in a particular topic. From our inception, we have attempted to deal with the hard issues arising from the impact of immigration on small countries like Barbados. In the process, we have had to deal with the abuse from people who have misunderstood our position, in the case of some we have no doubt it is deliberate. We did not make the decision to tackle controversial issues like immigration, homosexuality, a passive Fourth Estate, corruption in politics, obsolete government systems and others without expecting to attract criticism. We remain committed to bring these issues out of the closet so that all sides of the arguments can be exposed for public comment. It is the only way to demystify and educate the PEOPLE if we are to progress as a society.
In Barbados we have perfected the art of avoiding certain issues in the hope that they will fade away. We thank the commenter who submitted the note below.
David
This was copied from The Caribbean Impact – Jan 2008
Racism and the degeneration of Guyana
PART I
By Dr. KEAN GIBSON
I am on a one-year sabbatical from my job at The University of the West Indies, Barbados so most of my time is spent in Guyana which is my research area. I have done research on the Creole language, African-Guyanese culture (Comfa and Kwe-Kwe), but more recently I have been interested in the racism in the society and the political, social and economic consequences of a racial power structure. In the past I would spend my summer vacations and have occasional short visits to the country.
Whenever I return to Barbados it takes me a couple of days to recover from the trauma of the society. Now that I am in Guyana on a more or less continuous basis, I feel that I am living in a pressure cooker, and like many Guyanese, I just want some relief from the tensions in society. The problem in the country is inequality and the consequences of it with respect to differential distribution, rights and duties (which is what racism is about).
I was particularly concerned with a report in the Stabroek News (”Five ERC reports presented to Parliament,” October 19, 2007) where it was stated that studies conducted by the Ethnic Relations Commission (ERC) show that discrimination against African-Guyanese was a ‘perception’:
“The Ethnic Relations Commission (ERC) says studies on five important areas of concern in the country found no real evidence of discrimination but a perception that certain ethnic groups are discriminated against.”
A subsequent notice appeared in Stabroek News (October 28, 2007) where the ERC was inviting African-Guyanese to a forum to discuss their “perceived needs.” The use of the term “perception” implies that nothing needs to be done since discrimination is just a figment of the imagination of African-Guyanese. The discrimination must be a perception because no laws are broken. In South Africa during the apartheid era, and in the Southern United States in the pre-Martin Luther King, Jr. era, laws were passed prohibiting people from living or sitting in certain areas; and if these laws were broken, punishment could then be inflicted. Also, it is in the laws of Guyana that Guyanese cannot own lands in Amerindian areas, but Amerindians can own lands in other areas. So if members of other ethnic groups seek to purchase lands in Amerindian designated areas the discrimination would be very clear since a law would be broken.
There are no such laws with respect to Africans, East Indians and other ethnic groups in the society. Since no laws can be said to be broken with respect to jobs, land distribution and development opportunities in Guyana, the implication is that all is well in the society for racism is nothing more than a perception.
But all is not well. If the word “discrimination” is a poor choice for the experiences of African-Guyanese since racism is not legal in Guyana, then a more apt word is “victimization” where a group of people are singled out for cruel and unjust treatment. There is an informal system (racism is a formal or informal power structure) of privileges and rights operating in the society. When East Indians are accused of racism, they are quick to point out that they lived and worked among Africans and have or had close African friends.
So there is nothing that one can point at to say they are racists - so the racism in nothing more than a perception. But Africans are victims of what is in the hearts of East Indians, and as I have pointed out in The Cycle of Racial Oppression (2003) and Sacred Duty: Hinduism and violence in Guyana (2005), what is written in the Hindu sacred texts. The violent reactions by some East Indians to Cycle (there has been silence on Sacred Duty since I really got to the core of the issue in that book), is that I had the audacity to discuss the formal system of racism that informs their hearts. The racism, and thus inequality, that is promoted in the Hindu sacred texts is a valuable resource which bestows benefits, rights and duties to a group of people and thus must be maintained at all costs and by any means necessary.
One area in which Africans are victimized is in development allocations and thus depriving Africans of the means of earning a living and driving them into poverty thereby injuring their life prospects. If you cannot work, you cannot live. Since the PPP came to power in 1992 a myth was formulated that Africans do not repay loans. That myth became the justification for banks denying loans to Africans, but loans are readily made available to East Indians. The result is that Africans do not apply to banks for loans, and this is then the reason for the ERC in their report concluding that there is no discrimination against Africans in receiving bank loans since Africans do not apply.
The African Cultural Development Association (ACDA) has reported that it applied to the European Union (EU) for funds for a Drum Museum and other social needs. The money was approved by the EU but the disbursement has been stymied by the government and so ACDA has not received the money. There is another instance in which the EU gave money to a Co-op comprising of Africans to assist in developing their farming methods. No sooner was the grant made that an East Indian wrote the EU protesting about the grant and at the same time informing the Minister of Agriculture of his actions. This was done without informing the Co-op members, and only the generosity of the EU facilitated the information reaching the members of the Co-op. Then too, there has been the systematic killing of young African men. There has been no systematic killings of the other ethnic groups. Whether it is by starvation or systematic murder, the PPP has been portraying a sustained and purposeful attempt to destroy Africans. This is genocide.
Guyanese frequently tell me that they are “confused.” The confusion is not surprising for there is evidence of double standards and “double talk.” The President tells the nation that acting positions are not good in that persons needed to be confirmed in their positions to give them security of tenure and to give them the confidence to shield them from the Executive, but he creates acting positions. There are several acting positions in important arms of the state. There is an Acting Police Commissioner, Acting Judges, Acting DPP, Acting Auditor General, Acting Chief Justice and Acting Chancellor. We see images in the newspapers and on television of young men who have been tortured, but the state tells us that torture is not a part of its modus operandi and the wounds may be self-inflicted.
We see that one set of laws and behaviors that apply to a particular group, do not apply to another. Young African men and the poor in the society are summarily executed while surrendering, or killed without firing at the police, or are jailed for committing violent crimes, or committing a robbery. But the white collar crimes that are primarily connected to the narcotics trade, money laundering, trafficking in persons and weapons, and corruption are operations that are above the law, and the culprits are very often not prosecuted. In fact, in a series of articles in Stabroek News (beginning on September 16, 2007), Clive Y. Thomas explains how the state has been reconstituted to become a criminal enterprise.
Despite their criminality, he explains, the state expresses concerns about law and order in the society. However, these are concerns which apply to the ordinary citizens and not to the cabal who do not want their operations stymied. For example, the Minister of Human Services proclaimed a war on sexual violence, but no actions were taken when a Senior Minister in her government allegedly raped a young woman. Ordinary citizens are jailed for assault, but the President took no action against his Minister of Local government who assaulted a young man with a gun, knocked him down with his vehicle and then fired shots in the air. Young African men are criminalized and murdered for resisting their oppression; but as Clive Y. Thomas pointed out (”Above and beyond the law: The ruling elite in the criminal state,” = Stabroek News, September 16, 2007), the state is the same criminal gang which organizes the infamous “phantom force.” The people have all right to be confused by this double standard and double talk - it is a deliberate confusion aimed at making the people think that a moderate position will be taken, but it never happens. It is a confusion which also means that the agenda is to subordinate a group of people.
A major confusion at the moment concerns the Judiciary where the President is attempting to govern the country in contradicting the rules of the Constitution. Due to the President’s intransigence in nominating no one other than Justice Carl Singh for the post of Chancellor, the Constitutional requirement that there be agreement between the President and the Leader of the Opposition has been unfruitful. The President blamed the Constitution for the impasse and went so far as to assert:
“It was not the intention of the constitution reform commission for anything like this to happen and so we will have to find ways to set a precedent or make the necessary change to deal with this.”
There is nothing wrong with the Constitution. The framers of the Constitution knew that Guyana has a racial problem and sought to heal the divisions by making provisions for consensual decisions. The “new precedent” that the President has decided on is to step outside of the Constitution and create the posts of Acting Chief Justice and Acting Chancellor. There are no such posts in the Constitution. The problem began in 2005 with the failure of an agreement between the President and the Leader of the Opposition on who should be the new Chancellor. The President named Justice Carl Singh who is/was the Chief Justice as an Acting Chancellor. In November 2007, Justice Ramlall ruled that one person cannot hold two posts at the same time. The Constitution has set up two courts and a head of each. There is no provision for one person to hold both positions, or for one person to act for another. The government has now decided to deflect the order in another way by creating two acting appointments which are outside of the Constitution. The disobeying of the Supreme Law has been going on for some time which indicates that the President would like to rule by fiat.
Carl Singh with President Jagdeo
What the government has never told the people is whether Justice Carl Singh was in receipt of two salaries - one for Chief Justice and another for Acting Chancellor. It is also known that he advises the government which means he has to be paid. So he is like Popeye - bowling and batting. The obtaining of several salaries is not only an aspect of the white collar crime that is destroying the country, but it reinforces the point made by Clive Y. Thomas (”Above and beyond the law: The ruling elite in the criminal state,” Stabroek News, September 16, 2007) that several persons in the cabal operate in several categories simultaneously.
In Part 11, I will look at the response of the people to the violence that is being inflicted on them by the state
Related Stories
Can Indians And Blacks Co-exist In Barbados?
Can Barbados Avoid Escalating Crime & Violence In Neighbouring Trinidad & Guyana?
90 responses so far ↓
Concerned Bajan // January 31, 2008 at 2:22 am
Well all I can say is wow. BU is seems like you are in good company. Others have expressed concern. Wake up yaw!
Anonymous // January 31, 2008 at 4:48 am
I hope after this article by a respected researcher from the UWI Dr Kean Gibson that I don’t hear no damn foolishness from those seeking to push their evil agenda under disguise - like Thomas Gresham and others.
Bajans deserve everything that could happen to them here in barbados with this influx of these indians if they don’t open their eyes and ears and wake up.
Here on this blog others like myself,Adrian Hinds,Binbro etc as well as this blog site have tried to open the eyes of those who are either blind,myopic or plain iggrunt and don’t want to see.
Yet instead of thanks we have been assailed with insults,racists labels and dismissed as trying to stir up racial conflict.
Like an ostrich with its head deeply buried in doo doo they keep crying:”can’t we all get along?”
While the silent danger keeps growing,and growing,and growing as under the Owen Arthur administration arthur made sure that Barbados was set up for destruction as he allowed the wholesale influx of these indo guyanese people.
Barbados will become like Guyana or Trinidad UNLESS DAVID THOMPSON TAKES A BOLD STAND AND START REPATRIATING THESE PEOPLE BACK TO GUYANA.
It is like a homeowner given a small pitbull puppy as a pet,it seems all fluffy and nice for the first 6 months because after all it depends on you to feed it and protect it since it is unable to fend for itself in this strange new enviroment.
However as soon as this puppy becomes a dog and is confident enough,well then,the fangs come out,and you see the real viciousness of the animal.
By then the person who has allowed this dog into their home,fed it and shown it kindness is now left to wonder what went wrong.
The terrible danger Barbados is in is that the indians are coming in from all sides.
You have the poor,generally unskilled indians with their racist views of blacks coming from Guyana,you have those indians with a little money and their racist views of blacks coming in from Trinidad,and finally you have those indians who aren’t particularly rich or particularly poor,but may have a profession,coming in from Indian and the indian subcontinent with their racist view of blacks.
I am going to stop here for the time being,but I look forward to Dr Gibson enlightening us more on her research on race relations in these societies where indians make up a large percentage of the population.
Remember Dr Kean Gibson instructed us that this mindset has been laid down for them in their teachings.
She is absolutely right on this.
As an aside remember the outspoken black radio announcer Waddell who was assasinated outside his home about 2 years ago? - President Jagdeo probably knows more about that then he is letting on.
That man used to speak out about the unfair things and the discrimination of resources against blacks in guyana.
Finally David of Barbados Underground,I believe it is time for an open debate on race relations in this country.
I believe that VOB should have a Sunday Brasstacks with Dr Kean Gibson as the only specially invited guest to discuss her findings of what is happening between the races in Guyana and the implications for Barbados.
I hope that if this happens that they get the right moderator who is not so sqeamish about this topic or who wants to appear politically correct - that they want to keep giving us some ‘nebulous balanced other side’ without first letting the discussion be fully aired.
The sad thing is these people have no idea about what they try to sound so authorative on having never had to be exposed for a long time to societies like those or have never done the hard,ground research like Dr Gibson.
Visiting a country regularly or having a few indian friends will never give you a full understading of the problem.
So moderators like david ellis,peter wickham,don marshall and others like that will only stifle the discussion with their politically correct approach.
In addition adding other guests in that first programme especially people like norman faria will only result in fudging and deceit and lies like we see happening every time he is asked to comment on anything negative that has happened as it relates to Guyana.
Barbados is in trouble people,the house is starting to spark and we need to get the fire extinguisher and put this spark out immediately before it gets out of control.
People will tell you that you are imagining things,or you are over reacting,but I am sure there were similar voices like ours,and david and Dr Gibson in Germany who saw what was happening with Hitler and was told :’oh bugger off,that will not happen here.’
The rest as they say is history.
THE TIME IS NOW MR DAVID THOMPSON.
Bimbro // January 31, 2008 at 7:46 am
Dave, have to admit to an objection to your use of the term, ‘ A Fourth Estate’!!
Dave, forgive me if I wax into Bajan at this point!!!!
Doan give them nuh exotic name like ‘Fourth Estate’!! That’ll only make the bastards feel more important than they should be!! Call the shits what they are and let’s hurry and bring them to justice!!
As far as I’m concerned, ANYBODY who attempts to hijack our democracy, deserves just one solution!! THE FINAL ONE!!!!
Get my drift?!!!!
Analust // January 31, 2008 at 9:16 am
Anonymous has the analysis RIGHT….
Analyst // January 31, 2008 at 10:00 am
Sorry… it should be Analyst.. not Analust…
Kean Gibson, in her two books researched the East Indian psyche and delved into their religions and social practices and came up with a thesis which caused an uproar in Guyana a couple of years ago.
The pit bull analogy given by Anonymous hit right home. East Indians became a real problem in Guyana only after after DDT cut malaria and reduced their infant mortality in the 1940 ’s and 1950’s and their population increased .exponentially. Then the PPP asserted itself… now there is a democratic dictatorship in Guyana that controls every facet of life.
Afro-Guyanese have themselves to blame as well. There is NO leadership in Guyana that is strong enough to highlight the plight of Afro-Guyanese. The PNC party that Burnham formed after splitting with the PPP in 1954, is now quite silent or cowed or bought out. Afro-Guyanese are punishing… The Indians control everything and the only Afros that get anything are those that support the Indian hegemony.
A look at what has happened in Fiji with their Indian population who are now a majority there is another example of a minority becoming a majority and upsetting the stability of a country indigenous peoples.
Afro Guyanese may not be indegenous but they were there under slavery since the mid 1600’s, firat under the Dutch for 200 years, then the French, and finally the English. The Indians were imported as cheap labour for the sugar estates after the Afro-Guyanese got their Independence in 1834. By the 1840’s many Afro-Guyanese formed villages like Buxton and asserted their independence.
From the 1840’s the White sugar lords and merchants set out to break the bargaining power of the Afro Guyanese by various means… Bajans should be able to figure out that one. One way the colonial estate owners used was to flood the new Afro Guyanese villages. For example the village of Buxton (est 1842), from the nearby Lusignan estates and thus destroy the farms of Buxtonians…. The new Indian workers on the sugar eatates were encoraged to look down on Afro-Guyanese and were used to commit the injustices on the nearby Afro Guyanese villages. Now that the Indians are in control the African villages are left to decay. Therfore after over 150 years of the Indo-Afro conflict in that area are you still wondering why Buxton is a hotbed of Afro-Guyanese rebellion that is reflected in the negative and bloody news stories?
The Indians were used to break the bargaining power of Afro-Guyanese in colonial times…. the same way some of them are breaking the bargaining power of Afro Guyanese in Barbados today. The problem is not only economic but cultural. Mother India and Bollywood and Indian music holds them together as a monolithic force added to their racist religions which discriminate even between light and dark skinned Indians. … although we do that as “blacks” as well.
Get professor gibson to talk to you about Guyana… You would find it MOST INTERESTING!!!!
Anonymous // January 31, 2008 at 10:19 am
Is it true that in today’s Nation (I haven’t got one yet) the man responsible for the recent massacre in Guyana said that he has ‘people or connections’ here in Barbados?
If so it only reinforces what we have been saying about the potential fall out from this influx of guyanese.
Peltdown Man // January 31, 2008 at 2:34 pm
Is the influx of Guyanese wholly from the Indo-Guyanese population? To my knowledge, many of the immigrants are Afro-Guyanese, or of mixed race. I think that the kind of stuff you are promoting on this blog, David, will make inter-racial strife become a self-fulfilling prophecy. Then you can all say, “I told you so!”
Robert Hooke // January 31, 2008 at 3:32 pm
Why is it that we have thread, upon thread, on issues that allows this racial hatred to be aired and to reinforce the minds of racists.
The racist ideas in these blogs are based on misleading information and bigotted anecdotes.
How can any analysis of race relations in Guyana leave our Mr. Forbes Burnham and his party which was in power from 1964 to 1992 almost 30 years (Burnham died in 1985)? To do so deprives it of any credibility.
Guyana of today reflects the Guyana of yesterday, when Mr. Burnham rigged elections (his party in the first election they brought in external observers, and ever since), drove Guyana into the dirt, having been the richest Caribbean country in the 1960s, and practiced a discrimination that sent Guyanese Indians out of the country. Until his departure, Guyana was the only country with the same emmigration as East Germany.
What is amazing is that just a few days ago you have the sorry situation of where a black gunman led a massacre of 11 Indians, where there is a long and sad history of political crime which has killed more Indians than blacks, and yet, the reaction of this blog is to once more conjur up racist views about Indians.
Those who hold these racist views do not accept reasoned argument and facts and so I want to simply hold to a principle, that racist views - characterising a whole race negatively - is something that is always objectionable, who ever is saying it about who ever.
The other thing it is important to say is that there are only a handful of racists on this blog, but they dominate the discussion. Most of these it would seem do not even live in Barbados. It is important that all those who read this blog and say “no” to racism in all its forms say so, to help this blog move on to the important things. Racism is always and everywhere a distraction from dealing with the important, often more difficult things.
Prof C. Wren // January 31, 2008 at 4:48 pm
Dr. Gibson has written a lot of garbage. Where did she get her Ph.D and in what subject?
Racism in Indian sacred texts? I dont know what she is talking about and I have read many of the sacred texts (I am in interested person with an academic background, not a hindu) and that’s like holding every Christian to what it says in the Old Testament. My own reading of the Gita is that it is a morality story and race is not part of it.
In fact, the Hindu religion is one of the most tolerant religions in the world. It is not a converting religion. There are no Hindu missionaries. Until recently, more Muslims lived in India than they did in Pakistan with no pressure for conversion.
India is a predominantly hindu country with as many practicing Hindus percentage wise as practicing Christians in Barbados, but it has a Sikh Prime Minister and a Muslin President. Is that what a racist country would have?
Why would India be one of the first counties, and long before the UK, to bad all trade and investment with SA during apartheid.
I am familiar with the School of Oriental and African studies and not one academic there would support the idea that hinduism is racist. How many times have you heard people say that Bhudda is a racist? He was a hindu. What we have heard here is the kind of rediculous nonesense you get on racist websites.
I do not hear Indians claiming that Christianity is racist, though I would say that they would have more of a case. The gods depicted in Christianity are always white and Christian colonialists in Guyana and elsewhere discriminated against hindus for jobs in govenrment and schools. But this debate does not make us progress as a people to a better place.
I agree with someone else on this blog that we should not give further and further opportunities for the few racists to repeat their hatred and we should instead focus on the real issues impacting Barbados. Here is something we could learn a thing or two from Indians, hindus and muslims - the importance of family. The incidence of broken families in Barbados is a more significant issue to the development of boys, especially.
Anonymous // January 31, 2008 at 6:23 pm
C.Wren (Professor what)
What are you a professor of - pure spin and unadultarated lies?
You are questioning Dr Gibson’s credentials so it stands to reason that we could question yours.
Unlike you Dr Gibson didnot bring generalities but specifics so we can read evaluate and digest.
So Hindu is one of the most tolerant religion huh?Big Joke.Please explain for us all then why this tolerant religion have killed numerous christians including an Australian missionary and his 2 sons who were burnt alive in their cars about 2 years ago when a crowd of hindu militants chased them through the town,
Oh and by the way,what about the Dhalits or untouchables who have been threatened and muredered in the hundreds because they decided to convert from hinduism to christianity because they (the dhalits) say that the caste system of hinduism keep them socilly deprived and at the bottom of the heap.
Or what about the killing of muslims and the burning of their homes in certain sectors of India and in the north of India on the border with Pakinstan - Kashmir.
Hinduism is a very violent intolerant religion which seeks to keep the poorest of their followers in semi slavery based on that ignorant caste system.
Bajans will wake up one day and see what is facing them if they don’t start taking a stand right now.
David // January 31, 2008 at 6:48 pm
It seems that we keep repeating ourselves like a stuck record. Can the people who are accusing BU of inciting race hatred bring specifics?It is impossible to defend ourselves against generalities.
Barbadians are known to be some of the most passive people in the world who loves order, therefore to discuss issues of racism and similar issues only serve to interrupt the status quo which Barbadians hold sacrosanct. So far events unfolding in many countries where blacks and Indians exist breeds a tension which we would be smart to study and learn from to ensure the development of the inevitable multi-ethnic society is “managed”.
Prof C. Wren // January 31, 2008 at 6:53 pm
I did not say that Hinduism was perfection. I am not a hindu. Of the great religions of the world, some of whom have had murderous Inquisitions, forced conversions and extreme fundamentalism like the Talaban, hinduism is one of the most tolerant religions.
I have been to India. Have you? There are many measures of toleration upon which hinduism scores highly. I have mentioned that this hindu country has a Muslim President and a Sikh Prime Minister (and an Italian leader). There has not been a Hindu empire or invading hindu armies. India has more different religions freely practicing than any other country I know. This blog would suggest that there is more religious toleration in India than Barbados.
But yes, there are may things that have been done in name of religion in general and hinduism included that I think are shameful.
But my point is that to say that hinduism teaches racism and it is there in the sacred texts and so all hindu’s/Indians are racist is rediculous.
But what is most incredulous is the coext of your remarks. We have a situation in Guyana today, where there has been a massacre of Indians. A black man was involved and racial tensions in the country are high. This is part of a pattern of violence in which many more Indians than blacks have been killed. Your response to that is not that we must stamp out all racism, not that we must stand side by side with all the innocent victims in a Caribbean country, black and Indian, not that we must be vigilant to the rise of racism, but that Indians are all racist and are taught to be so by their religion and we must be careful.
Can you not see how utterly obscene that is, and how it unveils a degree of bigotry and intolerance that is the source of the real danger to Barbados’ future. It is your ignorance-fueled hatred that is the biggest threat to peace and harmony.
David // January 31, 2008 at 7:05 pm
Professor Wren et al~we always seem to intellectualize when we discuss an issue like racism. First of the all let us reinforce the point that Barbadians have been co-existing with Indians from the sub-continent for years, so that is not the problem. We have a recent event where a large unskilled Indian is entering Barbados which is bringing a lawlessness to the landscape of Barbados. All you people who are quoting all kinds of works and recounting all kinds of experiences which absolutely don’t relate to the issue need to visit many of the side streets in Bridgetown on Friday and Saturday nights, start with the Fairchild Bus Stand, Ricketts Street and Nelson Street.
Please go as an interested bystander and quietly observe and then report to BU. Let us deal with the reality people the time for theorizing is DONE!
Prof C. Wren // January 31, 2008 at 7:06 pm
I am not a hindu. I did not say that Hinduism was perfection. Of the great religions of the world, some of whom have had murderous Inquisitions, forced conversions and extreme fundamentalism like the Talaban, hinduism is one of the more tolerant religions.
But yes, there are may things that have been done in name of religion in general and hinduism included that I think are shameful.
I have been to India. Have you? I have mentioned that this hindu country has a Muslim President and a Sikh Prime Minister. There has not been a Hindu empire or invading hindu armies. India has more different religions freely practicing than any other country I know. This blog would suggest that there is more religious toleration in India than Barbados.
But my point is that to say that hinduism teaches racism and it is there in the sacred texts and so all hindu’s/Indians are racist is rediculous.
But what is most incredulous and what reveals your racism is the context of your remarks. We have a situation in Guyana today, where there has been a massacre of Indians. A black man was involved and racial tensions in the country are high. This is part of a pattern of violence in which many more Indians than blacks have been killed. Your response to that is not that we must stamp out all racism, not that we must stand side by side with all the innocent victims in a Caribbean country, Indian, Black or White and offer assistance to capture the perpetrators , not that we must be vigilant to the rise of racism, but that Indians are all racist and are taught to be so and we must be ever so careful.
This is what the Germans said of the jews, Its what they said of the native Indians before Wounded Knee, its what the plantations owners said of Busta.
Can you not see how utterly obscene that is, and how it unveils a degree of bigotry and intolerance that is the source of the real danger to Barbados’ future. It is your ignorance-fueled hatred that is the biggest threat to peace and harmony. What will put us in good stead in future when Barbadians will travel more and there will be immigrants, is to have strong values that we all aspire to, values of peace, kindness, tolerance and a disdain for intolerance.
Thomas Gresham // January 31, 2008 at 7:22 pm
OK. Let me tell you my experience. I have noticed that immigrants concentrate on the weekend in certain parts of the city. That happens the world over. When I worked in New York I used to like to go to those areas and get some nice food. In the UK I used to live in Tooting, next to a Ugandan Indian area (incidentally Indians chucked out by a racist African leader) and I would pass by Brixton at the weekend for the bars.
I dont feel threatened when I pass through those areas in Bridgetown. Do you David? To be honest, I sometimes feel a little safer.
I met a British tourist last Saturday who said that her first stop when she comes to Barbados is to get a roti down at Bayside. My first thought was that she had come to the wrong island, but then I thought great, it all helps to enrich the mosaic of Barbados.
My kids have some Indo-Caribbean friends at school. They are bright kids, love their cricket and are just like any other well adjusted kids. My kids went to two parties last week, both at Rockley Chefette, one for an Indian boy at their school and one for a black boy done the gap. There was no difference. They all had a good time and I am pleased that my sons are getting a bit of exposure to difference because, by god, when they get out in this world, they will need that and they will need to know how to work with and get on with Chinese, Indians, Africans, Americans, the whole world.
David // January 31, 2008 at 7:28 pm
TG we can see that you are deliberately being difficult about understanding what we are trying to say. Next time stop and listen,listen very carefully. For godsakes stop comparing Barbados to metropolitan counties. Understand the socio-factors peculiar to Barbados which are at play here.
Thistle // January 31, 2008 at 7:44 pm
I have to agree with David. I, too, have heard stories from many different people about the hordes of Guyanese Indians who congregate in certain areas of Bridgetown on Friday and Saturday nights. What I would like to know is, why can’t undercover police frequent these areas and listen and learn, and then carry out their duties. I did hear of one incident where police grabbed four illegal Guyanese men one Saturday night in Bridgetown and hustled them off in a van. I think they need to do that more often.
Thomas Gresham // January 31, 2008 at 7:49 pm
David,
You clearly have a view. You have revealed it in your choice of threads and your own comments. I have a different view. Is my view any less legitimate than yours?
At the heart of the matter is self confidence. I am proud of Barbados. I am proud of what we have done and managed. I have also seen much outside of Barbados and I know that our further development will bring change. Some of it will be good, some of it will be challenging, but I am confident that what makes Barbados a special place to me will not be easily lost.
The biggest threat is if we start to fail economicly. Rising unemployment and rising crime will undermine our society and values. In my view, as an economic expert, the surest way to fail economicly in today’s world is to become closed, inward looking and xenophobic. I recognise that you have a different view and the value of blogs is that we can both express these views for others to see and comment. I am not being difficult.
Anonymous // January 31, 2008 at 8:28 pm
David & others
Just a short point for now - you see how both thomas gresham and c.wren reveal their inner self.
Note how both of them in their earlier posts use the contrasting description of an indian and then they used the term a black man.
Subtle though this point may be to some,what it really points to is the notion by persons of indian descent that they are not black - only those persons of african descent can be considered black.
Thus in socities where there are multiple ethnic groupings the indians although being as black as or even blacker in some cases will usually align himself with those of the caucasian race (who they idolise secretly),because after all they both have straight hair.
By the way have you seen persons from madras - down south in India - some of them are so o o o o black that if you were in a dark area you could hardly pick them out.
Yet they don’t consider themselves black.
Also in India the lighter complexion you are the more there is a premium on you for marrriages etc.
Hence the low caste untouchables who are usually dark skinned.
To bring it closer to home then,I predict that it will only be a matter of time before those same half starving indo guyanese who came here penniless and were taken in by many afro barbadians - will as soon as they are financially secure - be seeking to form alliances with the white barbadians and then seek to opress the very people who demonstrated kindness and hospitality to them.
You doubt me - then ask the people from Fiji.
Straight talk // January 31, 2008 at 8:30 pm
It seems to me that the root of the problem is fear of an Indo-Guyanese takeover of our culture.
Much as I dislike the current trend towards “globalisation”- which in my mind is a corporate resurrection of slavery - we have much to learn from our caribbean brothers.
We have led a relatively cosseted life for the last 20 years when compared to Guyana, ravaged as it was by political corruption, their most forward looking workers are willing to leave their homeland to better themselves and their families.
Those that begrudge them that opportunity have little hope in the future.
We have to realise that standing still is not an option, the world will not allow our insular attitudes to thrive.
Our nation will become stagnation, left complaining on the sidelines holding out the begging bowl.
Legal immigrant workers have identified a niche in Barbados where they can not only survive but thrive doing the work our own unemployed are unwilling to do.
Are they really taking our jobs?
Of course they are not, they live here quite well and, just like Barbadians all over the world, still are able to remit funds to their needy families back home.
Overcome this xenophobic fear of all people strange, watch them and learn.
They are making a success of their limited opportunities in an environment in which Bajans should be excelling.
They have pride and industry in abundance, we should seek to emulate, not discriminate.
Bush tea // January 31, 2008 at 8:31 pm
David,
Whenever you hear posters claiming to be ‘Doctor this’ and ‘Professor that’ you can take a hint…
…we are supposed to be impressed with their rank, that we miss the lack of logic and common sense.
…anyone who knows anything about the chaste system in India could judge for themselves the compatibility of such persons framed in that culture, with Bajans.
People who come on these blogs talking about universality and open borders are just plain idiots. The consequences for the country will be inevitable.
You know my positon with CSME from the start. Our former PM was misguided and has done great damage to what could have been a model for small nation. It may already be too late.
I feel that ANYONE should be able to come here and live peacefully …PROVIDED that they are willing to BECOME and BEHAVE like Bajans.
THESE PEOPLE WANT TO BRING THEIR NORMS AND CULTURE HERE…use your common sense and tell me what the result will be… One month ago Kenya was a model of co-operation too - it only needs a spark.
The above post about “…my children going to a party at Cheffette with an Indian boy…” is so pathetic that I am at a lost to respond…
David you are a wise man, continue to do your outstanding work in education.
David // January 31, 2008 at 8:32 pm
Let us repeat AGAIN. Who is begrudging anybody? All we are saying is that there is enough evidence in multi-racial societies of this world that as a small nation we should tread carefully on the matter of the kind of Immigration path we want to pursue.
Prof C. Wren // January 31, 2008 at 8:48 pm
I was struck by Thistle’s intervention. What exactly are people arguing for?
I dont think anyone is arguing against reducing the number of illegal immigrants (in a manner that is firm but decent).
Under the CSME, all Caribbean countries have signed up to free movement of graduates.
Is anyone objecting to that? Is this the “open door” policy commonly referred to?
Although I was born here, my wife was born on another island. She is a graduate and so instead of becoming a naturalised Bajan by virtue of being married to me she (being as proud of her home as I am of mine) tried to come in under these new terms, but it has so far taken 2 years for the immigration officials in both countries to provide her the right stamps. Not a fully open door then.
In fact economic theory suggests that what we actually need are unskilled immigrants (right TG?), but clearly political pressures, limited it to skilled immigrants.
Unskilled workers from the Caribbean come in on 3 month or 6 month visas. If they overstay and they are found, they are deported that day with a stamp in their passport which means that they are ordinarily denied entry for about a year - I think this is an informal rule used by the immigration department.
People tell me that immigration officials are bribed to let some individuals return earlier. I do not know.
I seriously doubt that the people who congregate in Bridgetown are overstayers because overstayers are generally fearful of being picked up by the police.
So, is that people do not want to give people 3-6 month visas? Many Caribbean people have friends and family in other islands so this would be seen as a little draconian.
Is it that people think that the police are not doing a serious job of picking up overstayers? Perhaps they should do more, but I am not sure they are doing a bad job given all else they should be doing. I had a (afro) Guyanese helper once and I could tell the minute she had overstayed her visa by how nervous she got about being outside. I gather the Guyanese immigration officers treat you very badly if you arrive back as a deportee. (We helped her to go back voluntarily.)
Or is it that people do not want to give 3-6 month visas to Indians? This would not only be racist but it would be illegal under CSME and (rightly) get us into a lot of trouble internationally.
David // January 31, 2008 at 8:55 pm
Profesor Wren your ignorance on the matter of the open door immigration policy has exposed itself in your last comment. It is generally well known to Barbadians on the ground that many of the Guyanese et al who move around freely in Barbados are here illegally. It is the very reason that we have been scribing ad nauseam on the point that our immigration policy needs fixing.
Thistle // January 31, 2008 at 9:11 pm
Prof. C. Wren, you seem to be living in La La Land. You obviously do not know exactly how crafty the Indo-Guyanese are. You really believe that they abide by the 3 - 6 month visa? Do you really believe that they remain at the address they give the Immigration Department? Well, you are vastly mistaken. These people hide and dodge about like mongooses and the Immigration Authorities cannot keep track of them. I know of one of them who has a temporary work permit (which has now expired) and he had the audacity to sneak his young 15 year old brother into the island (who should be at school in Guyana) and when a neighbour of the two young men wrote to the Chief Immigration Officer about them, absolutely NOTHING was done. They are both still in Barbados. There must be many other similar cases, and I hate to say it, but some Bajans are encouraging and helping them. It is a No Win situation.
Prof C. Wren // January 31, 2008 at 9:19 pm
People have mentioned caste a few times on this blog as a way to damn Guyanese Indians, even though caste is not practised in the Caribbean. I think the caste system is a disgraceful system, well supported by British rule. It was made illegal (discrimination on the basis of caste) in India shortly after Independence. Making discrimination illegal does not change things overnight, but today there are untouchables holding senior offices such as State Premier.
Prof C. Wren // January 31, 2008 at 9:28 pm
Dear Thistle,
I got familiar with Guyanese immigrants here when I tried to help my helper become legal and then when she could not become legal to help her go home voluntarily.
My sense is that post world cup they are clamping down and many are being deported all the time. No one is arguing against reducing the number of illegal immigrants. What do you propose to do about it? More police? I notice how you define the problem as Indo-Guyanese as opposed to illegal immigrants. In helping my helper I got the impression there were more than a few Jamaicans, St Lucians and others whose papers were not in order.
Thistle // January 31, 2008 at 9:38 pm
I was actually writing about Indo-Guyanese from personal experience. But you are quite right that the term “illegal immigrants” (which includes others from other islands and countries) should be used. I have no personal experience with other illegal immigrants - just the Guyanese.
Prof C. Wren // January 31, 2008 at 9:40 pm
David,
My wife’s family are lawyers and so I am more familiar with immigration policy in Barbados than you may think. I have also come across many skilled Guyanese and Trinidadians who are here legally and many less skilled married to Bajans, so many of the people you think are illegal may not be. The illegals are unskilled workers who have overstayed a 6 month visa.
You are not answering the question. What would you do to reduce illegal immigration. More police - we already have one of the highest number of police per capita. More searches? Once an illegal person is picked up they are deported, so more deporations depend on picking up more people.
Brutus // January 31, 2008 at 9:45 pm
Prof Wren: “Dr. Gibson has written a lot of garbage. Where did she get her Ph.D and in what subject?”
Prof. Wren, have you read Dr. Gibson’s books (The Cycle of Racial Oppression (2003) and Sacred Duty: Hinduism and violence in Guyana (2005)?
Have you studied racism or race relations in Guyana?
I have not read the books and I know very little about the subject. My brief research on the internet, since reading the post above reveals, quite a bit of scholarly comment on the books and on race relations in Guyana. I was drawn in particular to the following:
“Whether Dr. Gibson’s arguments are premised on myths or not is no doubt important, but the fact that those myths are seen as reality by Africans should also concern those of us who want an end to the racial madness that we find ourselves in. ”
Dave Hinds http://www.guyanacaribbeanpolitics.com/commentary/hinds_110103.html
A few people have expressed some very strong views on this blog about Guyanese Indians. It is not sufficient to simply dismiss all of them as racist without an examination of the situation in Guyana and the factors that have caused them to feel the way they do.
I for one would be interested in more information about race relations in Guyana, and how this might affect Barbados.
Prof C. Wren // January 31, 2008 at 10:34 pm
Dear Brutus,
Yes, I am very familiar with race relations in Guyana and Trinidad. Today I am in London and over lunch was sitting with two eminent Guyanese lamenting about the current state of ethnic tensions.
The situation in Guyana is deeply polarised and divided and there are few neutrals. Because the Indo-Guyanese are more rural and business people and not writers or academics, their story is not often told in writing. One writer is a Trinidadian, married to a Guyanese, called Dr. Lakshmi Persaud, she used to teach at St Michaels in Barbados, and she wrote the very moving “For The Love of Thy Name” which includes many factual events. I cried wen reading that book and these are not my people. It led me to learn more. Dr. Cheddi Jagan’s book, clearly tells it from one side, but his former permanent secretary in the 1956 government used to speak to me often on trips to London and was one of those decent old fashioned men of the old Caribbean who told the inside story.
Dr. Jagan’s PPP was one of the first democratically elected communist governments. Jagan did not have a racist bone in his body (many Indo-Guyanese resent him for bending over backwards to the black community) and he had led a multi-racial party with Burnham. The CIA panicked and offered Burham money and leadership if he split with Jagan. Brunham was the region’s most brilliant orator and used his skills to fester racial strife, organised a strike of the urban workers and brought down the Jagan government. He then rigged the elections (they only lost the elections after external observers from the Carter Foundation were brought in, in 1992. The election result then was close but vastly different than in the preceeding elections and Dr. Jagan returned). Burnham died in 1985, but not before he had proclaimed himself President for Life.
Burnham’s regime was brutal. Opposition was mowed down. In one case with tractors. There were political killings, including one of the great hopes of Guyana, Walter Rodney.Burnham had his Indian and Black lackeys. His racism was largely indirect. His policy was to favour the urban worker who were largely black against the rural worker who were largely Indian. The mainstay, agriculture of the country collapsed under forced low official prices and many Indians left, so much so that the country actually began shrinking in size at an astonishing rate. The only other country to suffer the same contraction was East Germany before they built the wall.
There is far more to tell, but this blog is not the right place for it. But anyone who knows Guyana and knows Dr. Jagan, Rodney and Burnham, knows of the 30 years of rigged elections and political killings keeping the Indians out of power, would tell you that it is slightly obscene to talk of Indian racism as Guyana’s problem. Certianly the country will not succeed unless it can overcome its racial politics.
Thom // January 31, 2008 at 11:09 pm
http://www.lakshmipersaud.com/reviews.html
Bajanboy // January 31, 2008 at 11:53 pm
Guyanese coming to Barbados should have someone in Barbados sponsor them, and put up a $10,000 bond which would be forfeited should the person overstay their visit.
If they wanted to catch illegal Guyanese, all they need to do is to visit jobsites all over the island and they would catch them by the thousands.
Also, establish a fine of $100,000 for knowingly employing an illegal worker, and also fine individuals who employ illegal workers on a casual basis.
There are simple solutions to this problem.
Analyst // February 1, 2008 at 12:08 am
I was born in Guyana of Barbadian ancestry and I have lived in both Guyana and Barbados and I think I know a bit about the subject(s) being discussed.
The issues of unrestricted immigration, especially from Guyana, and Indo-Guyanese immigration in particular. is a thorny one for Barbadians. They look at Guyana and do not like what they see and do not want that to happen here. Some think it is politically incorrect to discuss this subject citing “racism”. .. However I disagree.
Historically, African Barbadians moved to Guyana in their thousands in the 1800’s. My great grandfather was one of them. For example the first police force in Guyana was staffed by some 455 Barbadian policemen. British Guiana in the 1850’s saw the growth of Afro self confidence and the formation of villages like Buxton. The British government there did not trust the local Afro population with security.
Indians came as indentured servants on contracts from the 1840’s and many returned to India, Those that stayed are the descendants of those labourers. From the beginning the British landowners and commercial interests used the Indians to economically break the bargaining power of the Afro- Guyanese… therefore conflict to divide and rule Guyana is part of its history.
Both Guyana and Barbados became independent in 1966. The first Guyanese Prime Minister Burnham’s parents were Barbadian by birth. The second Prime Minister Desmond Hoyte also had Barbadian relatives. These facts highlight the fact that thousands of Afro Guyanese with Barbadian heritage living in Guyana at that time. However, many of these families emigrated to North America and the UK as well as Barbados and other islands in the Caribbean as the economy deteriorated under Burnham’s socialism and later Jagan’s and Jagdeo’s”racist” policies.
Actually under Burnham many of the Indians flourished and most of the people who left Guyana were the Portuguese, Chinese, middle-class Afro Guyanese and those of mixed race. Many Indians also left but they were mostly from the middle and upper classes who did not like the socialist trends.
Since 1992, there has been an Indo-Guyanese government in charge and you would have expected the Indians, who vote for the PPP, to stay in Guyana and build its economy… but NO! This is an indictment on the government as emigration from Guyana is an industry and the highest in the region.
Anyway this “Marxist Leninist”, PPP party, has really set out to take revenge on the Afro- Guyanese who supported Burnham. The effect of their government style has not to mend the negatives of the Burnham rule but to make matters worse. The denial to Afro-Guyanese of contracts and business from most government projects is well known and documented. The Indo-Guyanese control everything that has $$$.
The majority of government employees are Afro Guyanese, although the top bosses and consultants may be Indo-Guyanese. Most glaringly, the civil service including the police and army has been badly paid. The country then calls on policeman or army recruit who earn $200 US/month to defend with their lives The death of many policemen and army personnel in the last five years has therefore made keeping the peace difficult.
Added to this is the underlying narcotic trade which has penetrated all facets of the country and compromised the integrity of many who govern and manage the country. The narco-state branding that Guyana has is a real fact if the truth is revealed. The narco people have also financed the “phantom gangs” and have become a law on themselves.
Not withstanding the terrible massacre that occurred a week ago, it is untrue to say, as one person did on this blog, that more Indians have been killed in incidents in Guyana. This untrue as over 400 Afro- Guyanese males have been “executed” over the last four years, and both major races have suffered from criminal activity, although the Indo-Guyanese have seen more robberies as they are perceived to have the money and jewelery.
Barbados has had to deal with the influx of Guyanese, as has Antigua, Trinidad, and to a lesser extent the smaller islands. At first it was the people emigrating could easily be Barbadian until they opened their mouths. However in the last few years there has been a large influx of tradesmen and labourers who are of Indian descent. This has caused alarm as it is felt that eventually these migrants will create a problem, socially, economically and politically.
As a minority they may not be a problem. However, given the experiences that one can easily gather from Guyana, can one be assured that politically, voting as a group in marginal constituencies could make a difference in Barbadian elections. We already know that the BLP used their pro-Guyanese leanings effectively for political mileage.
I believe that uncontrolled immigration where all and sundry are allowed into Barbados may disrupt and even destroy a comparatively serene way of life , cukture and behavior. Barbados does not need the crime and the corrupt practices of SOME Guyanese transplanted here. Also, the building boom in Barbados is about over and there could be tough years ahead and Barbadians will obviously think of their own economic survival first.
It is my humble opinion that my Guyanese brothers and sisters of all races have to come together and heal the rifts which are really
not as deep as some profess them to be. They also have to rebuild the country. This month, CGX - a Canadian oil company said that some 2.7 billion barrels of oil are potentially there and exploration should start soon. There is also talk of a multi billion dollar hydro0electric project that could supply northern Brazil and many islands in the Caribbean with cheap electricity. These may just be potential projects. However, nothing will happen positively in Guyana until they bridge the racial divide…. and look at shared governance where every part of society can see how the country is governed. The Afro-Guyanese must share in the jobs and wealth of this potentially “New Guyana”? or there will be NO Guyana… The spirits of the ancestors (slaves), of the Afro Guyanese who toiled and died in the fields of Guyana will ensure that.
Guyana has to stop looking outward and exporting its people to relieve its social and economic problems, and for remittances to gain foreign exchange. They have to start building a country that would achieve the potential that has been talked about for so many decades. If they do that then Guyanese will stay home, the country will become even more inviting to investors and there will be a more reciprocal relationship between Guyana and Barbados.
Analyst
Bimbro // February 1, 2008 at 2:21 am
In helping my helper I got the impression there were more than a few Jamaicans, St Lucians and others whose papers were not in order.
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If we must have immigrants, at all, then please don’t let them include Jamaicans!!!!
Refuse to believe me, if u like, but that would be a certain DEATH SENTENCE, for Bim!!!!
Moti Mahal // February 1, 2008 at 2:25 am
I am seeking persons In Barbados who are interested in a roti franchise business based in Guyana. Please contact me at Roti Mahal, 234789 Shribassant Street, Prashad Nagar, East Coast Demerara, Guyana
This is an investment
me // February 1, 2008 at 4:04 am
Bimbro is such a bigot.
Bimbro // February 1, 2008 at 7:20 am
me // February 1, 2008 at 4:04 am
Bimbro is such a bigot.
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Possibly, but a WISE one!!!!
Anonymous // February 1, 2008 at 9:02 am
Lord David,can’t you do something about this,it’s every thread that sister baby is taking over with her crap.
Read the contributions of analyst,how he or she details and lays out their argument and compare that with this trash from sister baby.
It is so frustrating I have to keep scrolling and skipping over comments when I will really like to just enjoy the other bloggers viewpoint.
I wouldn’t mind if she could contribute something sensible and stick to the issue at least come close to analyst’s contribution.
Anonymous // February 1, 2008 at 9:10 am
A suggestion David for you to consider.
Delete all those posts from sister baby that have no relevance to the topic at hand on the various issues,perhaps she will then get the message that we are about serious business here on BU.
I think BFP has already spoken to her about trying to turn the discussion from what the topic is.
Bimbro // February 1, 2008 at 1:20 pm
Anonymous // February 1, 2008 at 9:10 am
A suggestion David for you to consider.
Delete all those posts from sister baby that have no relevance to the topic at hand on the various issues,perhaps she will then get the message that we are about serious business here on BU.
I think BFP has already spoken to her about trying to turn the discussion from what the topic is.
*********************************
What a hard-face-cow!!!! If u doan like de woman’s posts then just don’t read them, surely!!!!
Why don’t U reply to Analyst’s posts and then sombody else might actually, be interested in what YOU have to say!!!!
Hard-face-igrunt, cow!!!!
David // February 1, 2008 at 6:39 pm
We agree that Sister Baby is derailing the topic and we have transfered her comments to Submissions. Sister Baby you can go over to Submissions and submit under that Heading.
Anonymous // February 1, 2008 at 8:26 pm
Thanks very much David.
Bimbro // February 2, 2008 at 4:33 am
Don’t Bajans get tired talking only, to Bajans!!
Diversity’s the spice of life!!!! Anyhow, we all seem prretty, much to be in agreement on this subject i.e. that immigration needs to be controlled!!
Could n’t be bothered to read all of your submissions just as I could n’t be bothered to read all of hers, so what’s the difference!!!!
Yawn!!!!
samizdat // February 3, 2008 at 2:10 am
This is an interesting thread, with some thoughtful and well-argued contributions (by Wren and Analyst) coming from both sides of the argument.
I’m also glad to see Bimbro playing (as usual)his very entertaining silly-old-grandad-in-the corner role.
One thing, though: is Kean Gibson (a UWI linguistics scholar, and by all accounts a good one) academically objective and unbiased when it comes to her analysis of race politics in Guyana, or is her analysis driven by a passionately subjective response?
I’m not familiar with either Guyana or Gibson, so would be interested to know more.
Bimbro // February 3, 2008 at 3:43 am
One thing, though: is Kean Gibson (a UWI linguistics scholar, and by all accounts a good one) academically objective and unbiased when it comes to her analysis of race politics in Guyana, or is her analysis driven by a passionately subjective response?
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Wha?!!!!!?? Laaaaaaaaaaddddddddddd!! :)
Wha da mean, ‘S’?!!!!!
& leave de Russian politics alone, please!!!!
We’ve passed that phase in our history - I hope!!!!
Analyst // February 3, 2008 at 4:04 am
“WAR OF THE FLEA”
This is the February 2, 2008, column from Freddie Kissoon, a daily columnist at Kaieteur News Guyana. It gives an insight as to WHY the bloody massacres in Guyana underly a guerrilla war, may be misnamed as criminal banditry:
Freddie Kissoon -Feb 8, 2008.
Oliver Hinckson and the “War of the Flea”
Are we dealing with a cabal of criminals held up in Buxton? Or are we in Guyana faced with the following:
(1) a political conspiracy that ended up in Buxton and went astray because members of the planning operations relied too heavily on men who could not transcend their instincts for robbing and killing;
(2) criminals who originally were criminals but became politicised in Buxton and have adopted a mind-boggling position, in that they are engaged in sociological crimes but they have an agenda that seeks to bring about political changes in Guyana;
(3) criminals, operating from bases of which Buxton is the main plank, who have no interest in politics, political parties or related activities but just want to loot and murder because they have given up on life and themselves and they are prepared to devastate Guyana; (4) an armed insurgency that sees killing as a way of getting their political grievances discussed by the society.
Oliver Hinckson has answered one of those questions. He talks about a concept called a flea war. Hinckson was a former GDF officer who excelled in his training (he went to Sandhurst) and obviously had to read ((It would have been compulsory reading in his military classes) a world famous book, Robert Taber, “War of the Flea: New York: Lyle Stuart Inc, 1965.
Taber’s manual remains one of the most influential avenues for people fighting both urban and rural guerrilla warfare. His book was so controversial when it was released in the mid-60s that the CIA didn’t take too lightly to it. Because of this it was not reprinted until 37 years after it first appeared. It is not in bookstores and can only be had through Amazon.com
I seriously doubt that Taber’s book has not been read by any insurgent member fighting a war of attrition in whatever country the battle is taking place.
According to Hinckson, a flea war is on in Guyana. Hinckson thinks that many former soldiers are willing to fight the “war of the flea” against the Government of Guyana.
It is clear from Hinckson’s thinking that he rejects the description of armed men in army fatigues and carrying AK-47 guns as criminals. So Oliver Hinckson has offered his analysis of Buxton.
The question here is not whether you like Hinckson or not. The question is not whether you think Hinckson supports what is taking place in Buxton. The question is, does Hinckson’s assessment have conceptual workability? I believe it does.
There is only one set of people who look likely to wash away Hinckson’s theory. It is the ruling party. One has to understand that if the PPP accepts that there is a flea war outside there, then, the PPP’s world will come crashing down.
The implications are horrible for the PPP. First, if there is a flea war in Guyana then that would be only the second time in the Independent West Indies that this has happened. The other example was the National Union of Freedom Fighters (NUFF) in Trinidad against the Eric Williams Government in 1970. The army exterminated it.
What a flea war denotes politically in Guyana is that you have a government that has done things that created conditions for an armed insurgency. Analysts the world over will begin to ask questions.
In the pursuit of answers, the government may be exposed as a dictatorship. Insurgency theorist, Oliver Hinckson, appeared on the Evening News last evening and argued that in Guyana the politics of arrogance, marginalization, victimization, oligarchic distribution of wealth (“oligarchic” was his word) have created conditions in which people will want to engage in a flea war.
Mr. Hinckson’s conceptualization has found an opponent in Dr. Randy Persaud. Dr Persaud is conceding that there is an insurgency taking place in Guyana. But without any analysis attached to the reasons why it was born, this university professor wants it extirpated. He is calling for support for the President of Guyana. So we have two opposing positions.
Hinckson’s adumbration is that Guyana’s political system has broken down because of its inherent unfairness and armed people are trying to correct it through violence. Dr Persaud, for all his training, doesn’t tell us why but does not accept the legitimacy of the flea war. And he endorses Government’s pursuit of the gunmen.
Dr Persaud is flippant, dismissive and contemptuous of the “insurrectionists” and one can read into his short letter (SN on Thursday; KN yesterday) that he wants a one-dimensional solution – the state must confront the men with the guns.
On the other hand, Hinckson created quite a stir in Guyana when at a press conference of Mayor Hamilton Green yesterday he offered to negotiate between the “flea war fighters” and state personnel.
Dr. Randy Persaud, who teaches at the American University in Washington, DC, and who writes on international politics, must know that the American Government accepted indirect talks with the Iraqi insurgents last year. The American Government even opened talks with the Iranian Government, the first time in decades, to get the process moving. Like Dr. Persaud in the Guyanese context, the American Government does not accept the gunmen in Iraq as being people with a legitimate agenda. But the reality on the ground in Iraq is that they have carried a flea war to the US troops in Iraq which the US feels that it wants to stop. In stopping it, the US has decided it will negotiate.
Dr. Persaud is on very flimsy ice because he chose not to mention that the British Government cut a deal with the IRA and released many convicted IRA killers in order to bring peace to Northern Ireland.
Will the Government of Guyana accept the offer of Hinckson? I doubt it. We now move to the second reason for the PPP anti-talks stance. If the Guyana Government concedes that there are men in Buxton, further up the East Coast and in Agricola who are killing people to press home a political agenda and will sit down with patriotic Guyanese and listen to what the agenda is all about, then two implications will be born.
One is the security forces may change their tactics since the gunmen are not sociological deviants. The other spin-off is that there will be some form of political sympathy for the “rebels.”
This is what Andrew Douglas desperately needed when he filmed that video in which he appeared as he saw himself, a freedom fighter. I close with my own position. It is that the Guyanese people should accept the covenant with Oliver Hinckson.
I cried for those five children. All Guyanese did. They must never be one more death at the hands of the Buxton gunmen. Let us do like the British in Northern Ireland and the Americans in Iraq. Let us recognize the reality on the ground and move to stop the wanton killings.
I will assist Mr. Hinckson if he wants to use my help. I believe both of us love Guyana dearly.
degap // February 4, 2008 at 2:28 pm
“No Guyanese need apply”
What’s the over/under on the PM imposing visa restrictions on the Guyanese before the end of the month?
Thomas Gresham // February 4, 2008 at 5:10 pm
According to degap “No Guyanese need apply”
is the irony lost on anyone else? I recall growing up in the US and UK before returning to Barbados, marching against the signs that said “No Blacks need Apply” and we marched with white, brown, yellow and black cousins, not just because they were discriminating against blacks but because they were discriminating. Full stop. And now we dont mind doing the same thing because its “other people”, we’re the landlords now and can be as bad as they were.
For a people so badly abused by discrimination we seem little interested in fighting it.
Of course, this will probably be as illegal under the treat of Chaguaramas as if some other member of CARICOM decided to put visa restrictions against Barbadians.
confusion // February 4, 2008 at 10:45 pm
all you people need to pray for the world and stop hating each other
confusion // February 4, 2008 at 11:10 pm
because i say the right thing i didn’t get a respon
degap // February 5, 2008 at 10:06 am
“Auntie Olga, you better pack your valise”
Thomas, are you slow or what? That’s my point! If I had a dollar for every black fool who left Bim or some other island for US and took great pains to tell African Americans that Bim or some other island was free of Jim Crow when up until the late 60’s only blacks who were white as the PM could get a job on broad street that didn’t involve a broom or a mop, I’d be rich. Therefore, the recent massacre may give the Anti-Guyanese segment of the DLP the ammunition they need to dictate the PM’s immigration policy.
Warrior // February 5, 2008 at 12:31 pm
Straight talk // January 31, 2008 at 8:30 pm
It seems to me that the root of the problem is fear of an Indo-Guyanese takeover of our culture.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I agree with you, but I go further to suggest that, we no longer as Barbadians understand our culture, however we understand that life as we knew is going - or is gone - to hell in a hand basket and we can no longer afford, degredation, dispruption, what ever word you feel to insert there.
It is a high price to pay, one which we balk at.
samizdat // February 5, 2008 at 11:40 pm
The problem isn’t Thomas G being slow, degap.
The problem is with your prose style.
Thomas Gresham // February 6, 2008 at 3:59 am
degap,
Forgive me man, for not understanding what you meant.
Humphrey // February 7, 2008 at 2:56 am
Professor Wren the expirtise the Lawyers in your family acquired through years of academic pursuit will not, like osmosis, diffuse into your head to make you as knowledgeable and wise as they obviously are, about the legalities of Barbados immigration. And you bring the same level of obtuseness to your characterization of Doctor Gibson’s study.
Racism perpetuates itself across this world because the comfortable are unwilling to do what Doctor Gibson did. It is not what is in a religion that makes it racist. It is what is inferred and interpreted by the practitioners, and how they act after such inferrence and interpretation.
Too many Hindus and Indians largely interpret teachings in their religion to mean that the blackman is a representation of the devil. That is why they threaten to kill their kids if they enter sexual relationships with people of African descent. They do not have that aversion when their kids marry whites.
You guys need to wake up and smell the coffee before it becomes rancid. Here is a link to check out.
http://www.landofsixpeoples.com/news402/ns4042114.htm
Some Guy // February 9, 2008 at 12:00 am
East Indians are arriving in Barbados in large numbers? AWESOME!!!
First Guyana, Suriname, and Trinidad and now Barbados? We East Indians sure are getting up in the region. HAHAHA.
By the way, anyone who doesn’t like that is racist. :-D
Anonymous // February 11, 2008 at 10:21 am
Let me remind you that ANTI-racist discourse has highlighted the unequal distribution of power in society, stratifying people in positions of privilege according to not only race, but immigration status, class, gender, sexual orientation, ability, etc.. This “intersection of privilege” is referred a “form of hegemonic power that “allows one group to use its power to dominate a group in a position of less power.” That means that anyone, including Afro-Guyanese in positions of power can be racist.
Guyanese scholar Alissa Trotz calls Kean Gibson “someone whose publications are misinformed, harmful, hateful, divisive and, while supported by some in the Black community, serve no Guyanese in the long run.”
Yet you choose the so-called Dr. Gibson’s comments to open your discussion on racism?
Shame.
UKblogger // February 14, 2008 at 6:02 am
UK blogger in Barbados - Part1
I have been reading these blogs for some time, on india bashing and understood a thing is people here are totally confused as to how to differentiate crime from religion to suggest a non emotional resolution for the problem, if there is any problem. For your gods sake atleast please refrain from criticising other religion without even knowing fraction of their sacred texts. What texts Kean read i dono but she is just trying to sell her point without substantial knowledge about hinduism for what you see in some hindus might not reflect the religions’ ideology. I also saw some of the comments by “Anonymous” on hindus killing others in india. Let me tell you these are just isolated sad incidents driven by some local politics and doesnt reflect the countrys policy of freedom of speech / religion practice. These incidents whereever taken place were dealt with serious police actions, so as not to repeat.
In india there are more muslims than in - Pakistan, Bangladesh, Indonesia, Burma which are declared Islamic nations. While it got its independence from Britain in 1947, the christian population in India was just 350k which has grown to over 110millions. What does it tell us is there is equality and freedom of practicing any religion. There are other religions like buddhism, jainism, sikhism, zorastrianism which has few millions of followers . I also wish to tell, though Pakistan and India got independence at the same time, Pakistan chooose to declare it as islamic nation while India though with 80% population of hindus, still declared itself as secular republic. I am just trying to bring out the contrast and am not against islam even. As some one already pointed out India has a non-hindu Primeminister and President ruling with italian leader in the backdrop. Can any country be more impartial than this?
If hinduism appears to be the killer religion for someone, let him look at which religion killed more people in the worlds history. What would we say for the crimes commited by the so called big brothers UK and USA either directly or otherwise - in Iraq, Palastina, Cuba, Vietnam, Bosnia, Herzegovnia etc.. list might be endless. So Can we all blame christianity for these inhuman and torcherous crimes done to the man kind. How about the treatment of the imperialist Briton meted out to the Africans, who were just crushed and made slaves for Imperial businesses, which were thriving those days dealing even in flesh trade, slave trades. So does it mean Jesus and all christians to be bashed for these crimes? Just think of Australia, which was once considered as a PONR for all sea pirates, dealt severly by UK. But those pirate settlers killed the aborigines to an extant that there are almost extinct (Only a few days back Australian parliament felt guilty of its past and put forward a plan to save these people from extinction) But have you ever read in your history books that once there was a hindu king who waged a war aginst christian / muslim country blah blah blah…Did you?? I havent come across in my british education atleast, which boasts of ruling the whole world once.
Brothers, our past is full of blood and crime - waged wars for treasures, power, land. all are dreadful evils. But We all accepted this as part of history and didnt bang any religion / country. Historically the Caribbean ruled, fisted by Briton to its advantage and after sucking off every thing they left us. Barbados is no different and we have to know the fact most of us were immigrants at one point of time (Iam not amerindian btw) brought either by Briton from Africa / Asia we are just immigrants but barbadians.
So now, please dont bring divisive notions in our minds just to make your point right. To say “Iam good…my religion is good” is fine but to say “you are bad…your religion teaches racism/divisions” is just unfair and doesnt reveal good nature of us to the world.
AS far as Caribbean islands, I lived there for few years in the past and I found the place and people very bonhomie and intelligent enough to safe guard against any hooliganism of any kind. I also toured India extensively last summer and what prompted me to do? is I read lots of books on hinduism both positive and negative shades of it and wanted to have first hand experience of the nation of 1 Billion.
UKblogger // February 14, 2008 at 6:27 am
TG has given entire new economics perspective with nativity in a nutshell. I appreciate it TG for his wholistic view than narrow divisive thinking.
“At the heart of the matter is self confidence. I am proud of Barbados. I am proud of what we have done and managed. I have also seen much outside of Barbados and I know that our further development will bring change. Some of it will be good, some of it will be challenging, but I am confident that what makes Barbados a special place to me will not be easily lost.
The biggest threat is if we start to fail economicly. Rising unemployment and rising crime will undermine our society and values. In my view, as an economic expert, the surest way to fail economicly in today’s world is to become closed, inward looking and xenophobic. I recognise that you have a different view and the value of blogs is that we can both express these views for others to see and comment. I am not being difficult.”
confusion // February 14, 2008 at 10:07 pm
Anonymous what would you say to the white people that comes to barbados for a week and end up taking control of bajan houses & money. But because a indian person from Guyana goes to Barbados that those people are racist no not all of them but i know that you are a racist and you would have to answer on the day of judgement why do you look at your neighbouring country and speak like that. alot of we caribbean people don’t see past we nose indian goes to barbados & work so hard for you people and yet you talk so bad about them i have to admit that they are some raist ones but not all of them sorry if i upset you but you have to face it i am a mix race
UKblogger // February 15, 2008 at 8:14 am
Someguy, We need to realise competency is todays’ truth.
1. Employability
2. Profit margins 3. Outsourcing - gives more money to re invest for public
Example- People on HSMP visas in UK contributing huge sums by NI paid to UK government, only to be spent on Health departments benefitting all.
Sunboy // February 24, 2008 at 4:50 pm
Hey guys,
The only thing you should be concern about is how can a human kill another. So instead of being bias of one race against another, lets start comparing innocent vs murderers.
I am a darn proud Bajan, I don’t have to listen to anyone of you idiots to form my own opinion. I could only assume David form this thread to express or market his thoughts. I have no problem with that except when he self proclaim that his views represents that of all Bajans.
Well to the world out there, to all races and now especially the indo-guyanese I would like to appologise for these idiots who are unconciously staining this serene Island of mines, Barbados.
The reason I am taking this stance, because of the same descriminating reasons David and his arrogant friends are taking against indo-guyanese, are the same sins they are themselves committing. David, first you cannot compare Guyana with Barbados on no realistic terms. I honestly don’t beleive indo-guyanese wanted to leave their country voluntarily to come to B’dos to create havoc, whatever you meant by that. And to say the least it is not difficult to see you and companies are trying to convince views of your preconcieve opinion/experience about indo-guyanese. Now if you claim your interest is for the benefit of Barbados, what do you think a White immigrant, lets say from the UK, of which there are a lot would think when they read such sensless and illpurpose topic?
Basically you are taking sides when speaking about Guyana, and in so doing you are being racist because of your ethnicity, so the same that goes for indo-guyanese in coomon sense goes for others who are not of your race, think idiot.
So whatever your opinion, don’t use Barbados as your scapegoat, we Bajans are more sensible, tolerant and less descriminating than the few bad eggs other like you (david + companies).
One day we may have to ask the UK, Trinidad or Guyana for help, may not be our liftime but our children’s. Please don’t make them perish because of racial freaks like you (David) and others.
My Advice: you to church, stop looking at people differently because of skin color and hair texture, take a stand against evil (killers) and if you really wants to see B’dos on the up encourage a more intelligent and nuetral discussion.
Take car everyone and enjoy life with as much friends as you can.
SunBoy
JC // March 5, 2008 at 3:41 pm
It has nothing to do with being raist or not liking guyanse or blah blah blah…. It is realising that a plane ride will not change what was thought from the time these indo guyanese were bornt. I do not trust them at ALL. I AM SORRY. But that is just the way it is.
It amazes me that the Africans refuse to realise that the only one who cares is them. what they need to do is to love themselves.
why cant the Guyanese RUN BACK to their country and fight for what is rightfully theirs. Indo-Guyanese, Afro guyanese ALL OF THEM. Fight of whats rightfully yours. You have lots of resoutrces that we bajans dont have but still want to come and inflict severe pain on our social services, I say NO! It is time that we bajans love our own.
Are u Guyanese going to let Venezuela and Suriname rob lu of what is rightfully yours. how dare u come to take what is mine and my childrens’. I am a PROUD BAJAN. And I love my country, and think that it is time that you Guyanese go back home and fight for your country. It is rightfully yours.
Do not let any Indian who came after u deter u fight that good fight.
David // March 5, 2008 at 6:53 pm
We listened to a report carried by VoB this evening which covered the worrying events unfolding in Guyana and the factors driving it. It was an interesting report because the feedback in the report was given by an Indian and a Negro.
There was consensus that much of the social unrest in Guyana can be traced to a racist element within the governance system which under a pro Indian government has been suppressing Blacks in recent years.
Good to see VoB pursuing this matter we had started to doubt ourselves.
Anonymous // March 19, 2008 at 12:16 pm
The lasting negative effect of Owen Arthur will be the wholescale importation of unskilled indian guyanese into Barbados.
More lasting than the effects of corruption and the wastage of public funds will be the ethnic clashes and the segregated enclaves that will exist.
Anonymous // March 19, 2008 at 1:10 pm
David
please delete the name used and the comment by the above caller.It is very offensive.
Thank you.
passin thru // March 19, 2008 at 1:26 pm
David, that is the BFPE crew. Yuk. They have all the class of Owen Arthur on a bender.
thomas // April 9, 2008 at 3:13 pm
i am a proud bajan but very disappointed u c a few yrs ago i started to built my house so i employed bajans only as i was following the people around me and did not like guyanese for what ever reason i don’t know anyhow this is wot happen to me i borrow money from the bank put my every penny into the hand of my fellow bajans to build my home and the did a BAD BAD job the side of my house was like waves however the put the block my tiles on the floor had done so bad i had to get all lick out the did not seal off the house and i paid them when i ask why the not doing it the give me a price so i told the contrator i pay for that already he did not do it to make a long store short i hire five guyanese to do the same job that my own bajan mess up and i must say i LOVE it since then i realise i was hate in guyanese just because of wot i was hearing but to actually hire them and have them around me i have a great apprication for them and i am not afraid to say that any construction work me or anyone i know have to do i always recomand guyanese first would u believe these bajans fella did not know much the only person that know was the constructor so wot he did was i hire him and he bring his crooks and the take my hard working savings and mess up everything so please people bajans are not saints so stop acting as if we do no wrong think about it .
oh i must say i hire both afro and indo guyanese and the know wot the were doing.
Straight talk // April 9, 2008 at 4:20 pm
Thomas:
I have empathy with your dilemma, but this is the price to be paid until we raise to developed world standards in 17 years time.
BTW it ain’t gonna happen……ever. We like it so.
Anonymous // April 9, 2008 at 6:00 pm
David
I don’t believe that you left up that March 19th post with that offensive name.
Is there a double standard operating here.
Nicholas // April 14, 2008 at 4:46 pm
Is this a joke? Am I living on the same planet as some of you? Guyana has been a victim of political corruption since the 60’s. Burnham allowed the rape, murder and robbing of countless Indian people in Guyana. The police in Guyana has and always will be corrupt. Indian blood has been shed on Guyanese soil since the 60’s and is still going on to this day. If you want specifics and proof, open any newspaper from Guyana or look at any website. I am not advocating racism, but to say the Afro Guyanese people in guyana are suffering is like saying the Ku Klux Klan was suffering when they killed and hunted down African americans. Who ever believes that is truly misinformed. You want proof still? Buy a plane ticket, go to Guyana now and just stand around and open your eyes. Are you kidding me? The very title of this blog is ridiculous “Indian racism against afro guyanese in guyana” lol..you cannot be serious. Then on top of it, that professor said that hinduism is the cause of Indians being racist? I am not Hindu, I am Christian, but I have yet to meet a hindu person who is violent because their religion says so. This was the most ridiculous foolish blog written in many years I have no doubt. I have no knowledge of Barbados, but I have a great knowledge of Guyana and its peoples and culture. Guyana is a beautiful country torn apart originally by political propaganda. If you really want to know how all this started, research it yourself you will be shocked to find out it has nothing to do with either Indians or blacks in Guyana, or guyanese for that matter. The bottom line is that Indians and blacks have to find a way to co-exist in guyana or the country’s future will be bloody just like its past, but please get your facts right before you post a blog which 100 percent incorrect facts. Good luck to Guyana and to those who still dont think what I said is true, do what i said, get on a plane, go to guyana and walk around for a hours. Im sure when you come back, or if you come back, you will look at the title of this blog and laugh to yourself just like I did.
David // April 14, 2008 at 4:57 pm
Nicolas it seems to us that you are the one who is misinformed. Read any Guyanese newspaper or blog and you will understand forst hand that many of the underlying issues in Guyana is racial. It does not matter if afro abuse Indians or vice versa. The problem today is of concern not the Guyana which you remember in the 70s.
You also need to reread our blog. We are not preaching racism. We are saying that for many years the demographic of Barbados was 95% and 5% other. We now have a situation where that is changing rapidly. Other countries where ethnic groups co-exist there is evidence to suggest it should be managed.
Nicholas // April 14, 2008 at 5:44 pm
David -
I know what your saying, but the Guyana of the 70s is the same Guyana today. Nothing has changed. Nothing probably ever will. Like I said, I have no knowledge of Barbados, so i wont speak about it or its people, but I read a lot of false things about Indians in Guyana, such as their religion being violent and because of them the afro-guyanese are suffering. That is definitely not true I can assure you of that. My family as well as countless other families have lived through the attrocities of guyanese life from the 70s to today. You said that I am misinformed, that the underlying issues in guyana are racial, but thats exactly what Im trying to say. Blacks and Indians in guyana have been fighting for decades, but “professor” Gibson sounds like a racist and even worse probably has people believing her lies. Once again, if you dont believe me fine, go visit Guyana and look around with your own eyes and you tell me who is killing who in Guyana. Again im gonna say this, blacks and indians will have to find some way to get along but this probably wont happen because the indians in guyana are too timid. The indians have been massacred and beaten down since the 60’s and will keep letting it be done to them and wont stand together and fight back. This is fact. And to your statement “we are not preaching racism”, you may not be but that ignorant “professor” is, and i can find countless more “professors” who read her nonsense and brush it off because its absurb. Im sure my point will not get through here, thats obvious, but as a human being I have to stand up and defend my guyanese brothers and sisters who for generations have been raped and murdered by a corrupt government in guyana which still goes on today. Read a newspaper or look at the news for guyana.
Hammer // May 1, 2008 at 7:17 am
Wow man— never seen so many people in this day and age willing to accept so may falsities on so little evidence.
Speaks of the power of discourses to frame the way we see and feel the world.
According to Gibson, analyst and sotme others, as a Hindu, I am racist against Africans. Wow!
You know, I just wrote a 450 page thesis fighting for the rights of Africans and Indians together!
During the process, I was fired from my very well paid job for speaking out against the racism against Africans. And that was when there were no Africans around. I only had the support of 3-4 people against nearly 100. I was ostracised every day for 2 years and then fired.
Then I saw this website
After 2 decades of fighting for and with Africans, i am now I am learning about my racist hindu culture.
I am not amused Ms. Gibson. If you are a true prfessor, you are abusing the trust accorded your position.
David // May 1, 2008 at 9:39 am
Indo-Guyanese can you share your thesis with us? Please feel free to email it.
Indo-Guyanese // May 1, 2008 at 10:27 am
It’s being submitted for publication to a Univ press.
Indo-Guyanese // May 1, 2008 at 10:54 am
So u delete my post. Fine. Continue hosting a harem of racists. Good 21st century citizenship.
And yes, delete my post. Censure me. Great, you coward!!
Indo-Guyanese // May 1, 2008 at 12:08 pm
Let me make this clear to you David and your band of racist asses.
I have taught and studied with Bajans, and I have many years of excellent crick with bajans. I won’t let you and your band of dumb asses invalide that. You are the bigoted and uneducated minority in B’bados.
Whiteman // May 6, 2008 at 11:40 am
I must say we whites should start back slavery in Barbados
I would love to use the mentality of you black racists against yourselves
This would work well. Whip and work, then you all can understand the essence of your mumbling
When the lashes burn into your backs you will forget about the Indians and whoever and remeber the struggle of your forefathers.
We should have never set you free
A True Believer // May 6, 2008 at 1:43 pm
You tell him Negroman!
Sugarstick Indian // May 22, 2008 at 1:28 pm
I have red a lot of what this forum have to say and I know you ppl will say I am bias and also be offended when I say - David and his acolytes are a bunch of shallow, insecure and racist people who are living in a whirlpool wake up guys lift your heads and look out to the ocean. You people should spend your precious time and energy to help and elevate your fellow brothers and sisters who tend to live like their colonial masters currently (white people)…. they want to relax and live life large and lavishly not that i dont know that everybody want to live like that…. but David’s or our race are not so fortunate as the whites who for centuries has rape and rob almost every country on this planet to get themselves, country and economy as rich as they are today, they destruct us forcefully then, but now they still have other venues like globalisation and the use of people like u who want to fight between yourselves (((they like to see us fight and destruct whatever is left here for us… In time of destruction they will be the angels heaven sent, they will give us some pittance through aid, donation and help and then tell us how to run our country and who {country} to be friends with))) and cannot see that they are the real treat to everyone here in the third world when the world fights they are at the advantage of taking control take a closer look. We can never measure up to them as much as we want to because they will always have control through world order which changes everyday to suit themselves.. So David and crew should get his people to start to follow the lifestyle and mindset of the ppl like the Indians and Chinese and then you will probably notice an upliftment of your race as whole… Get past the mental slavery and stop thinking that its every race in world have something against you… look around the world thats all you people do… Just sit back and think that everybody owes you something.. wake up people….work hard (”with the sweat of thy brow thou shall eat bread”) and make sacrifices cause we all have a long way to go… I am sure they forgot they are Christians because the bible teaches against they very notions that they are promoting “Love thy neig