At the risk of being subjected to the abuse of being called racist we have decided to continue with our analysis of the open door immigration policy which Barbados has been practicing in recent years. The new government has just acceded to office and we have no idea if we will see a departure from the earlier policy. We remain adamant that the high influx of illegal immigrants into Barbados is cause for concern. We have additional concerns at the high number of those illegal immigrants who are Indo-Guyanese. We remain firm in our view that there are case studies in the form of Trinidad and Guyana which should warn Barbadians that we need to ‘manage’ our burgeoning multi-ethnic population.
We have written several articles which have expressed our concerns. It seems however that the tipping point on this volatile issue occurred on January 31, 2008 when we published an excerpt from the writing of Dr. Kean Gibson – UWI lecturer titled, Indian Racism Against Afro Guyanese In Guyana. Since then the comments have been flowing and have clearly illustrated that the issue of race relations should be placed at the centre of government policy. We are sending a message to Prime Minister David Thompson that Barbados needs to be proactive from now on this matter. Please take decisions to ensure that the stable climate which Barbados has enjoyed over its post-colonial existence continues.
Some comments posted on BU have been pushing the boundary but we feel it is important Barbadians and others try to understand that this is an issue which needs to be confronted. We understand the emotionalism which this issue continues to evoke but as a people we need to move past this point if racial harmony is to be achieved. In the spirit of fair play we have published a letter written by The Honorary Consulate of the Republic of Guyana, Norman Faria which was sent to the Caribbean Broadcasting Corporation (CBC) last year; it addressed concerns arising from the program Book Talk which was aired last year. By coincidence Dr. Kean Gibson was a panelist on the program.
Read Norman Faria’s letter which he emailed to BU tonight…
29 November 2007
Mr.Claude Graham
General manager
Caribbean Broadcasting Corporation (CBC)
The Pine, St.Michael, BarbadosSUBJECT: CBC-TV GIVING PLATFORM FOR HATEFUL RHETORIC
Dear Mr.Graham:
The Honorary Consulate of the Republic of Guyana in Barbados presents its compliments and wishes to refer to the above subject matter. Sometime this year, or maybe last year, your station broadcast a discussion on the book “The Cycle of Racial Oppression in Guyana” by Kean Gibson during a programme called “Book Talk” . The panel composed of the book’s author and Robert “Bobby” Clarke and David Commissiong. The programme was re-broadcast this year. The exact dates for both screenings may be obtained from the station’s log. The consulate, representing the government and people of Guyana, expresses its disappointment and condemns the showings of these programmes, giving as it does a platform for the peddling of inflammatory falsehoods and other hateful rhetoric which will only serve to incite hatred and tension among ill informed and impressionable minded viewers and cause difficulties for the ongoing cordial and otherwise friendly relations between the peoples of Barbados and Guyana, some of the latter’s nationals choosing to come and live or work on a contract basis in the island.
Gibson’s thesis, as she outlined in her presentations on the programme, basically alleges that people of East Indian descent in Guyana, particularly now there is an “Indian” government as she contends, will mean trouble and oppression for Guyanese of African descent. She blatantly said Africans are being targeted and murdered in Guyana, or words to that effect, among other falsehoods, in said programme. Her exact words may be checked by perusing the programme in your library.The whole thrust of her presentations directly or inferentially portrayed Indo- Guyanese and the present administration as being bent on oppressing and discriminating against Afro-Guyanese. Gibson presented no scholarly evidence of these allegations. There is none. Indeed, Gibson’s book has no scholarly basis and was rejected by a number of publishing houses to which it was submitted. As established by serious and reputable analysts (See for example “Rebuttal to Kean Gibson” http:www.guyanajournal.com/gibson_rebuttal_2.html) the book is riddled with subjective, irrational, personal and false views. On that level alone, the Consulate asks why should it have been deemed worthy of discussion in an otherwise interesting and worthwhile programme such as Book Talk ?
Barbadian law prohibits the public stirring up of racial hatred and other inflammatory views to create discord among races. Yet here we have a person being given a platform by a government run TV station to air and give succour to what may be justifiably interpreted as just those illegal and undesirable practices. It has nothing to do with “freedom of speech”. The fact that the two gentlemen were invited to offer a rebuttal is of no consequence. They made some good points, especially Mr.Clark, though I would have offered other information with a different emphasis. Strangely, the Consulate, which is the premiere source for services and knowledge about the Guyana government’s programmes and philosophy, was not invited to send a resource person. Further, since it would have been known by the programme’s organisers that Gibson frequently refers to Hindu religious theology and practices in her allegations, no one from the two Hindu temples in Barbados were apparently invited.
Those proffering inflammatory views and falsehoods when it comes to a racial situation should not be given a platform. They have no freedom of speech. When I worked and studied in Toronto in the 1970s, I joined with the campaign to try and prevent the (late) racist William Shockley from giving a talk at Convocation Hall at the University of Toronto. I marched in a demonstration outside the Hall. It will be recalled that Dr. Shockley’s theory is that people of African descent are genetically inferior to whites. Further, I fully support the correct stand of those who in recent days protested against the prestigious Oxford Student Union at Oxford University in the UK in allowing the convicted Holocaust denier David Irving as well as Nick Griffin, a leader of the far right (British) National Front Party, which among other neo-fascist stances, calls for the deportation of people of colour including those from Guyana and the Caribbean region from the UK.
I was also disappointed in the way the Book Talk host’s handled the programme. Instead of simply permitting the participants to present views in an orderly and reasonably time frame, he came across as being a panelist himself and appeared to be arguing at some times against the submissions of Clarke and Commissiong. He appeared to be prompting Gibson to offer other information , though of course no one is saying this otherwise excellent host in other programmes and displaying professional and tolerant views in other public areas of endeavour was supporting said Gibson’s views. Gibson “hogged” the show. She had a disproportionate amount of time to peddle her hateful rhetoric. She should never have been on the show or the book discussed.
I know you personally as general manager would not be responsible for the invitations sent out for the said Book Talk or any other programme on the station.. I further commend you for, as far as I know, initiating the really excellent programmes about Caribbean immigrants in the UK aired on CBC -TV and which you so ably presented. I trust that you will look into the airings of the said Book Talk programme. The delay in writing to you about this matter is regretted but unavoidable due to other commitments.
Accept Sir, the assurances of my highest consideration.
Respectfully Yours,
NORMAN R. FARIA
(Guyana’s Honorary Consul in Barbados)
Related Stories
Indian Racism Against Afro Guyanese In Guyana Can Indians And Blacks Co-exist In Barbados?Can Barbados Avoid Escalating Crime & Violence In Neighbouring Trinidad & Guyana?
149 responses so far ↓
Anonymous // February 16, 2008 at 10:11 PM
Norman Faria is lucky that he is in Barbados and has the freedom to make those remarks.
Would a black bajan be as free in Guyana to crticise indo guyanese?
I dare say not.
Norman Faria has written the commissioner of police Mr Dottin last year to take action against VOB and bajan citizens for their publicly expressed concerns about the large guyanese presence here.
He has written numerous letters to the newspapers and has the good fortune to be accomodated by his fellow guyanese Roxanne Gibbs – Managing Editor of the Nation newspaper.
His support seems primarily to be in favour of those guyanese of indian descent,with some token gestures to afro guyanese.
He refuses to tell us how many of his compatriots are here whether legal or illegal,yet he he seeks to assert his rights and their rights as the honaray consul of Guyana.
He has been given a lot of air time and newspaper space – and my guess is he is just watching this government to see how they move before he starts his whining and whingeing again.
Anonymous // February 16, 2008 at 10:19 PM
David/BU
Heard something on the news tonight about Barbados Government seeking to revist the skill artisans provision in the CSME document, of course much to the consternation of Guyana’s Foreign minister.
According to him:”many persons will suffer hardship”.
I wonder who those many persons are,perchance would they be those pesky guyanese?
Perhaps someone in the DLP hierachy could come on and tell us exactly what the DLP is intending to do.
Analyst // February 16, 2008 at 10:23 PM
You should also show the Related Stories link:
Indian Racism Against Afro Guyanese In Guyana
Anonymous // February 16, 2008 at 10:43 PM
Norman Faria should be put out of Barbados, and he can take Owen Arthur with him.
Analyst // February 16, 2008 at 11:35 PM
Anonymous:
“Norman Faria is lucky that he is in Barbados and has the freedom to make those remarks”
“His support seems primarily to be in favour of those Guyanese of Indian descent,with some token gestures to afro Guyanese.”
………………………………………………………………..
Please note that Mr. Faria is Barbadian born – one of his parents (like Rihanna), is Guyanese. He has been Honorary Consul since the Marxist- Leninist PPP (Indian) government took over Guyana in 1992.
Hisi negative behavior towards some Guyanese of African descent, especially lawyers, like Samuel Legay is well documented and complaints have been made to the Foreign Ministry in Guyana, without any action being taken.
Many feel that Mr. Faria is a disgrace as a representative for Guyanese here in Barbados. He is also despised by many in the Diplomatic Corps. Even the last government ignored him.
The Police and Immigration authorities also consider him a difficult person to deal with. They prefer to deal with the Guyanese Association of Barbados (GABI), a reputable , non-political and cultural association , that is supportive of the laws of Barbados, and willing to help in solving some pf the pressing problems. Mr Faria has made vicious attacks on the Association public since he cannot control it.
The racial divide in Guyana is quite obvious; the problems that Afro-Guyanese have with “marginalization” are real. Mr. Faria, like President Jagdeo and his cabal, refuses to admit that there is a problem re the marginalization of Afro-Guyanese. Many Afro-Guyanese may leave because they cannot stand the Indian racism there. Indo -Guyanese support the government and also leave – why do they not stay there and build the country if they so love Jagdeo? If Guyana was properly run and every person had a fair share the people would never leave in droves for other countries… People would be going there instead… That is what has to happen!
Fix Guyana…… foster racial harmony and then there will be no insurrection force talking about revolution because of marginalization and killing innocent people to settle scores for Afro Guyanese being killed by “phantom” squads.
Analyst
Thomas Gresham // February 16, 2008 at 11:37 PM
David,
Thank you for your introduction and for posting the letter. I hope it will lead to more reasonable discourse.
Analyst // February 17, 2008 at 12:17 AM
For your information there has been a growing debate in Guyana regarding the issue of marginalization of Afro-Guyanese. … and its relation to the recent massacre of 11 Indo-Guyanese in Lusignan, which borders Buxton. The new words for the “criminals” is now “terrorists” or “revolutionaries”, with a cause, fighting to avenge the killings of some 400 black men by government backed “phantom squads”, over the last four years….
The following article is one from a Roman Catholic Priest who is advocating support for:
“Time to talk to the terrorists “-Father Rodrigues
By Miranda La Rose – Stabroek News
Monday, February 11th 2008
http://www.stabroeknews.com/index.pl/article?id=56538823
Negrocrat // February 17, 2008 at 12:26 AM
Norman Faria is a nuisance and has always been. Now that he is clothed in diplomatic robes his nonsense and nuisance value are coming more and more to the fore.
Norman, you know that the Indo-Guyanese are the chief offenders in Bdos and across the caribbean.
Somehow they are able to have access to doctored passports and now I understand doctored certificates.
Norman your problem is in Guyana and its Officials not in Bdos and its Officials.
OOPS, let me alter that. They are some officials in Bdos, especially the Immigration Dept who are not clean and who should be investigated and swept out of that sensitive department.
Get real Norman and do not continue to adopt the attitude that Bajans are opposed to Guyanese. The Guyanese are their worst enemies. These are the ones that should be thrown out unceremoniously.
Heaven // February 17, 2008 at 12:33 AM
Get real Norman and do not continue to adopt the attitude that Bajans are opposed to Guyanese. The Guyanese are their worst enemies. These are the ones that should be thrown out unceremoniously.
I totally agree.Bajans need to stop bothering about unimportant things (like Rhianna’s clothes) and deal with serious issues like illegal immigration , crime and the high cost of living.
Analyst // February 17, 2008 at 12:48 AM
“GUYANA “TERRORISTS”
“You can get to the root causes through dialogue or continue to deal with symptoms”
Saturday, February 16th 2008
http://www.stabroeknews.com/index.pl/article_letters?id=56539185
This letter was written by a South African, who spent three years in Guyana. He discusses Guyana’s situation and compares it to South Africa, Mali and Kenya, and the need for peaceful conflict resolution there.
Analyst
Concerned Bajan // February 17, 2008 at 7:03 AM
Mr. Faria please respond to the concern of bajans. HOW MANY ILLEGAL GUYANESE IN BIM?
Yardbroom // February 17, 2008 at 7:31 AM
If I may quote Norman Faria:
“Gibson’s thesis, as she outlined in her presentations on the programme, basically alleges that people of East Indian descent in Guyana, particularly now there is an “Indian” government as she contends, will mean trouble and oppression for Guyanese of African descent.”
Let us examine the above and try to understand how it relates to Barbados.
Guyana and Trinidad are different in many aspects but in others they are quite similar. One feature links them both their ethnic distribution.
Trinidad: 39.6% African/Trinidadian, 40.3% East Indian.
Guyana:43% African/Guyanese, 51% East Indian. (approx fig)
What links them together was their previous need for “cheap labour” African slaves, and later Indian indentured labourers – an economic argument.
We -Barbadians- are now being told that there is an “economic argument” to have “cheap labour” in Barbados supplied by Indo/Guyanese, and those of us who have advanced the view, that if those immigrants are “illegal” the Government should do something about it, are labelled racist.
Guyana and Trinidad both show that in the long term there is a bitter harvest to be reaped by Barbadians who are black, that to my mind outweigh any short term “economic” benefits.
We learn nothing if we do not learn from history.
The simple fact is that, when the Indian population swells to an appreciable size where the native population if of African heritage and in a previous majority… there is conflict.
Barbadians are in a position to do something about that, and they should not allow any “economic argument” however compelling for the short term, to dissuade them otherwise.
The fragmentation and destruction of the social cohesion of a country, and what that entails, should not be allowed to happen without the views of its citizens being expressed.
Anonymous // February 17, 2008 at 7:39 AM
Norman Faria WAS NOT BORN IN Barbados.
He in an interview stated that he came here as a young man and was allowed to attend secondary school here.
Thomas Gresham // February 17, 2008 at 8:07 AM
Dear David,
We disagree on many things, and sometimes we put that aggressively, but I think you have created something important with BU.
Are you beginning to feel that your repeated blogs on racial issues is beginning to drag down the blog and make it dominated by invective, hate and prejudice?
You cannot discourse with hate and prejudice. You can see that in the way people repeatedly make racist characterisations of Indians, and when described as racist which it surely is, they say that are only arguing against illegal immigrants – as if anybody is arguing in favour of them.
As Brutus has pointed out, the problem with all this equating illegal immigrants with Indians is that when you look at an Indian in Barbados you do not know whether they are legal or illegal, you will often not know whether they are hindu, christian, catholic, or other.
I wonder how many people on this blog who were excited by Gibson’s remarks have read the rebuttal you linked to? The enemy of racism is information. Caste for example, used by people to negatively characterise all Indians in Barbados is not a feature of the Indians in Barbados (they are Muslim, Catholic or non-caste Hindus).
Those who do not wish to embrace arguments say that they will not be persuaded by economics because what may be good for the economy may be bad for social cohesion. This is the argument of those whose prejudices do not stack up with rational argument. A key factor in social cohesion is getting the economics right too. As Kenya has showed, where there is economic despair what appears to be social cohesion can quickly evaporate. And all these people trying to protect our social cohesion from a few immigrants do not ask whether it is this social cohesion that is holding back a greater distribution of wealth from whites to blacks?
But my key point here is if your blog is dominated by hate and prejudice, those who wish to discourse and debate will increasingly leave, exponentially reducing the power of the network you have created.
I wish you wise judgment.
Straight talk // February 17, 2008 at 8:11 AM
Yardbroom,
Your normally well argued positions are being compromised by this last post.
No sensible person on this thread is supporting “illegal” workers, and for you to raise straw men by stating such is disappointing, to say the least, to your admirers.
David // February 17, 2008 at 8:23 AM
Thomas Gresham thanks for your advice.
We wish to assure the BU family that our priority interest has always been the open door policy which has been practiced by Barbados government in recent years. We have never discounted the argument that there is an economic argument to support immigration flows into Barbados. It is one reason we have highlighted the two sides of the concept which we are struggling to implement CSME in previous weeks.
Barbadians have always been positioned as an intelligent people, well educated and all. We feel that the socio-economic argument must be factored when discussing the influx of immigrant labour to the shores of Barbados in an unplanned way.
It must be discussed and managed.
It will not happen in the fettered environment of the mainstream media.
We are also somewhat concerned that a Doctor at our University of the West Indies would have published an academic work on this isssue which seems to have been disregarded in this debate. What is more startling is the lack of support Dr. Kean Gibson seems to be getting from her colleagues in the mainstream and social media.
Bush tea // February 17, 2008 at 8:34 AM
David,
I have to admit it. This man Gresham makes me really SICK. What hate and prejudice is he talking about?
He comes on here talking all sorts of illogical trash, intent only on justifying open borders to support his ‘Immigration is good’ nonsense.
A long procession of posters demonstrate to him, endless examples of countries near and far where this is NOT true – especially as it relates to Indians and blacks in Caribbean countries….. and now he is accusing those who demonstrate his ignorance as being hateful?
What hateful what?!?
In todays news in Kosovo /Serbia attempts are being made to resolve long standing ethnic conflict by declaring independence. All over the world this is a recurring problem.
Only a COMPLETE IDIOT does not see the challenges of creating such diverse cultures in a small community. We got rid of Owen…. Is Gresham now the lone ranger?
Why does he not respond to Yardbroom’s trashing of his so called ‘economic argument’ that is supposed to justify this sort of immigration….
Gresham, If you are writing this nonsense to show your Indian wife how much you love her, I forgive you… but if you’re serious I pity you.
The People's Democratic Congress // February 17, 2008 at 8:46 AM
The People’s Democratic Congress (PDC) will strongly support at any point in time any Barbados Workers Union-led planned national protest action against either the Royal Shop, or Sandy Lane Hotel, or both, over the sacking of a number of their former workers, even though we believe that any such planned industrial action must be seen as an effective, proportionate, and short term response to the very intransigent and selfish behaviour of these two crass exploiters of so many of the masses and middle classes of people of Barbados.
We in PDC have observed via the local media that, in regard of these two disputes, that in the negiotiations held so far to resolve them, and as between The BWU and The Royal Shop, and Sandy Lane Hotel, respectively, there has emerged a very rebarbative and gory picture of these two pathological blood suckers of some of the hardest working segments of people of Barbados, NOT willing to compromise and reach consensus on the BWU’s call for re-instatement of those former workers.
Moreover, what has been very appalling is that in this so-called modern era in Barbados there are still these two anti-worker, anti-masses, anti-middle classes and anti-national development elitist corporates, which can be thinking that they can blatantly resort – in these two seperate incidents – to inflicting clumsy, heavy handed and possibly prejudice treatment upon some previously very underpaid and misused workers, and would be able still to get away with it, primarily because they have important GOVERNMENT AND BARBADOS CHAMBER AND COMMERCE AND INDUSTRY connections. These two and others like them believe that they can continue, very indefinitely, to mistreat and exploit the individual workforces that are so largely responsible for the surplus incomes they make on an annual basis. But, they are wrong indeed!! And, how these two foreigner-oriented, modern-day upgraded sweat shops, dare to think in those ways and maltreat the descendants of those who have fundamentally helped to build this country?? How dare them??
Also, what is very henious and disconcerting about these two indignant situations is that these two joke companies, which primarily cater to tourists, have forced two respective groups of native workers to resort to old time 20th Century tactics of picketing and singing songs, staging strikes and withdrawing their labour – though they are the unionised workers rights under the relevant trade union related laws – just in order for them to appear to esp. many disinterested onlooking Barbadians, as being so powerless, so propertyless and so subservient as to be simply appearing to be begging to get back some jobs – and even in the case of the Royal Shop – jobs that have already been taken up by others, so that these wretched employers at the Royal Shop will be able to continue as uninterrupted as possible their crucifixion OF OUR WORKERS at the cross of the TOURIST DOLLAR. What a shameless, calamitous state of affairs!! What a naked brute situation!! It absolutely shows that BLP and DLP Governments and Trade Unions, since the last 30 or so years, have seriously failed to lead the way in really ushering in greater freedom and democracy, and progress and development for the country, with the broad but optimal goal of securing greater slices of social and political empowerment, enfranchisement and ownership rights and responsibilities to the broad masses and middle classes of people of Barbados, being central to such an important notion.
We must clearly state this: had we formed the government of the country at the last Election, we would certainly already have been looking at initiating a national political legislative process of making PARTNERSHIPS THE ONLY NATIONAL MULTI-MEMBER CORPORATE BUSINESS ENTITIES POSSIBLE IN THIS COUNTRY. Hence, under this sytem there no longer being STATE/PRIVATE/PUBLIC COMPANIES OR CORPORATIONS EXISTING, BUT ONLY PARTNERSHIPS BEING ESTABLISHED AND MAINTAINED as representative of a new historical and cultural epoch in the making in Barbados. Such partnerships having to be instituted to make sure that PRESENT-DAY WORKERS, like those at the Royal Shop and Sandy Lane and the Labour Department, become PARTNERS/PART-OWNERS of the enterprises that they would ordinarily now be a part of; that there would no longer be in existence an old and decrepit culture of wages being paid to WORKERS, BUT an incipient modernist culture whereby such PARTNERS/PART-OWNERS would be being remunerated in PROFITS EVERY MONTH, OR AT WHATEVER TIME AGREED UPON BY INDIVIDUAL PARTNERSHIPS; and that there would NO longer be a structure and culture whereby persons as workers are presently peripheral to the main decisional making processes of these particular present-day COMPANIES or CORPORATIONS, BUT that there will be an evolved structure and culture IN PARTNERSHIP ENTERPRISES that will allow persons as in ALL PARTNERS/PART-OWNERS to be very central to such processes, esp in regard of having a say as to who would become PARTNERS or not of these INDIVIDUAL PARTNERSHIPS; and, yes, ALL the aforegoing and more initiatives under the legislation that would have to be enacted by a PDC Government to give rise to such PARTNERSHIPS.
In the meantime, though, we urge many, many Barbadians to properly and unreservedly support any planned national protest action on the behalf of those of our brothers and sisters who were once at these inhuman establishments, and that would be directed towards these establishments themselves.
PDC
Adrian Hinds // February 17, 2008 at 8:48 AM
David this Thomas G person is yet another latter day saint, who have not created anything but comea acalling with advice on what you should or should not be doing with this blog. Please ignore him. His approach is very similar to someone on the BarbadosForum who goes by the name GoldenBoy. At last there is nothing there. If you want your blog to be reduce to a trickle then take his advice. You can read the many comments of this person over at Barbados Forum and see the similarities.
Thomas Gresham // February 17, 2008 at 9:01 AM
The reason why Gibson’s work is not getting support in academic circles is that respectable academics in the field know that she is peddling falsehoods designed to incite racial hatred.
These false hoods are fairly well exposed in the rebuttals to Gibson’s work. You have a link to one of those rebuttals on this site. I hope people who have read Gibson should read that as well.
To say that the economics arguments for immigration have been thrashed suggests you know no economics while you propose ideas with serious economic consequences. This is not wise.
Anonymous // February 17, 2008 at 9:11 AM
David
When I read that old letter by Norman Faria,I knew then, that even though your intention might have been to create balance by portraying the other viewpoint,that other persons with their open agendas (no longer hidden,at least to my eye – see Gresham et al) will use the content of faria’s letter as though it was the Gospel and represented the unvarnished truth.
So many holes could be put into that letter,but I would not waste too much of my time on him.
What Faria was writing there was a pile of jobby.Plain and simple.
As stated above,any bajan who dares to raise the question of too much guyanese in this country,or the criminal activities of guyanese,or that they are driving down wages and creating havoc on the social services has been accused by Faria of inciting and strirring up racial hatred against the guyanese people .
But you know what? – he damn right – to push that ‘in yuh face’ attitude to bajans.
Everybody seems to want to take a hands- off approach to norman faria,and just like the British behave – to try to be politically correct in these matters.
But guess what that ain’t wukkin’ for the Bristish,and it ain’t goin’ wuk here neither.
It is time that the Commissioner of police,the head of Immigration either start publicly stating the problems they have with guyanese and other illegals,and the problems they anticipate if it continues.
It is also time that the moderators on call- in programmes and their producers allow a free discussion by bajans on how they feel about the presence of these people in their country,and stop trying trying to stifle public debate – or interrogate the callers like Tony and Don marshall and others do,or trying to manipulate the callers to not criticise these illegals and like David Ellis – try to push his ’suposedly ‘ balance spin’.
Why is it that Basdeo Jagdeo of Guyana never criticise Antigua, or Trinidad or Dutch St Martin for their harsh stance against the said guyanese?
Why have they only targeted Barbados?
Well because we had an idiot in owen arthur as prime minister who for whatever reasons wanted to to continue to flood his country with these people,and even publicly admitted using illegal guyanese to work on his home – yet he was never sanctioned for it.
These are serious times and serious times calls for serious action by serious people.
Over to you Prime minister Thompson.
David // February 17, 2008 at 9:42 AM
Thomas Gresham we don’t want to engage you in any theoretical or ‘book’ debate because frankly we don’t think that we are ‘qualified’ or competent so to do, neither do we think it relevant to the argument. Your constant harping about the economic benefit of immigration has been nulled when trying to establish relevance. Several commenters have tried their damnest to get the alternative arguments over to you.
In further support of the other argument we want to acquaint you with the following, and we have to admit that you made us go to our bookshelf this morning:
A challenge for economists and persons involved in economic planning is to anticipate on the optimum level of financial and non financial costs to the society with any policy measures which they roll-out. It is what they refer to as trying to create social efficiency, a kind of a cost benefit analysis if you will but having to inject a social variable in the equation
We will quote from John Sloman to define the definition of Social Efficiency:
Karia // February 17, 2008 at 10:16 AM
I was fortunate while studying at the University Of Toronto to have met one of the most intellectual and powerful Caribbean men. This Professor is Dr. Arnold Itwaru, Dr. Itwaru is of Guyanese heritage but instilled in his students of Caribbean Studies the power of self love as a Caribbean people.
It is deplorable when we witness the debate that is taking place on Indo Guyanese and the onslaught of abuse of them. Why are you allowing your fellow Caribbean brothers and sisters to enter Barbados in order to be abused? Where is the self-love for our own? how will the Euro-Americans, Euro-Canadians and Europeans look at this budding social catastrophe under the guise of racism?
It is time the Caribbean governments come together and assist Indo-Guyanese to live comfortably in their resourceful country. Please remember quite like Caribbean blacks, Indo Guyanese were transported as indentured servants by the same agents of hate that transported blacks from Africa. Thus it is imperative for us to be supportive at this time instead of being so hateful. Life might not always be that glamourous for those self righteous bajans whose wealth has gone to their heads.
Richard // February 17, 2008 at 10:32 AM
I am willing to support action by the Government (Any government) to rid barbados of these illegal Guyanese and illegal immigrants of other nationalities. It can’t happen in a vacuum i know, but Barbados needs time to develop its people and the country for itself first before it becomes an open sepulka. It should never be an open sepulka actually. I see barbados as a pond or lake with its own ecosystem. We have just introduced the snakehead fish (guyanese). Trust me, the analogy is sound if you research snakehead fish.
My analogy may sound racist to some people out there and maybe it is. I am man enough to admit that. In no way does that diminish the point being made. Guyanese should stay in guyana and fix Guyana. Honestly though its not their fault, people will exploit what is there to be exploited, not just Guyanese. The problem lies with there being no immigration plan, no policy (that i know of) no nothing. You just do what you want in this country. The political system stinks in this island and the politicians are a product of that. This country is one large plantation.
The citizens are socialised to be like zombies. Would sooner kill you for stepping on their shoe than stand up and seriously fight this present plague that will reduce this country to a slum. One person told me that Barbadians are too slow and small minded and we need more people in the country so we would stop from f**in each other, new blood she said. I totally get her point, i totally do, her child’s father is Indian and she employs about 3 guyanese house keepers probably for next to nothing. Another guy this time told me he renting his house for 1500 a month but he thinking of renting it out room by room to guyanese and he could get 3000 a month.
Security! Can you please stop that person that’s about to type “Barbadians go to other countries to make a better living?” Security!!!
Thank you Mr Owen Arthur for your utterly misguided policies and flagrantly selfish attempts to develop a legacy for yourself in the history of Barbados. You will be long dead and gone when the shit hits the fan. Your children will be well provided for financially and will live on compounds with high fences and armed guards. Marvellous innings mate! Meanwhile, the rest of this country will be turned into a shantytown and the future inhabitants will not look like you or me.
It’s a rant I know.
Adrian Hinds // February 17, 2008 at 10:49 AM
A couple years ago in Barbados an illegal Guyanese worker lost both arms in an accident that occurred on a work site belonging to Mrs Ram. Mr.Bosemple was hospitalize at our QEH, he had no insurance did not pay into NIS and therefore became a ward of the state, meaning that he was until then nothing more than a profit center for his bajan employers, and became a burden to taxpayers as a result of his injuries. This is one way that illegal immigrants become a burden. The other is in an economic downturn.
….David here is a book that will solidify what we are seeing on the ground and that economist never sees and or takes into account. Remember it is widely accepted that economist do not concern themselves with price increases as they set about to measure inflation, again this is something that we have seen in Barbados. But here goes Thomas Gresham who seems to be in theoretical purgatory with regards to illegal immigration and who seeks to ignore the reality of everyday living that boldly confronts his opinions.
The Dismal Science
—–How Thinking Like an Economist Undermines Community —–
Stephen A. Marglin
Economists celebrate the market as a device for regulating human interaction without acknowledging that their enthusiasm depends on a set of half-truths: that individuals are autonomous, self-interested, and rational calculators with unlimited wants and that the only
The High Cost of Cheap Labor
Illegal Immigration and the Federal Budget
August 2004
By Steven A. Camarota
Yardbroom // February 17, 2008 at 11:19 AM
I have always advocated a peaceful Barbados, where whites, blacks and indians can live together in peace and harmony, and will continue to do so.
What I have simply said from the beginning of this debate, is that some “illegal” Indo/Guyanese appear to be causing problems and those issues should be addressed. Others said that is racist, why I know not. I can only assume they thought that accusation would garner support and silence me.
It would appear that the black majority population in Barbados, is not expected to speak about reasonable concerns, and people would say how nice we are. I have simply pointed out, the long term dangers in that attitude.
What has happened over many years is that “some” people do not expect blacks to express a position on anything of importance, we should always be “participant observers” to our fate…that is not good enough.
To be honest, the stability of Barbados is based on a multitude of factors but there is one important element which makes the difference between Trinidad, Guyana and Barbados.
Barbados never had Indian indentured labourers of any size, it is true there were indentured labourers from an earlier period but they were not Indian, it is that one single factor despite other problems – and they have been and are some – which has meant Barbados has had some degree of social cohesion.
To not understand that, is not to understand the history of our close neighbours and how that factor “influences” our thinking.
Adrian Hinds // February 17, 2008 at 11:26 AM
Thomas Gresham // February 14, 2008 at 8:46 pm
According to David: “As we have stated in previous articles many of these UNDOCUMENTED Indians are unskilled and add little value to the GDP of Barbados.”
David, If you were one of my students in my academic past I would have to flunk you for being continuously uninformed about a subject you continuously write about. There is countless research to indicate that unskilled workers, by doing the jobs that others do not wish to do, at wages that locals would not work for, adds substantially to the real GDP, if not the measured GDP. Its what built America and Canada. The West Indians who went to the UK in the 1950s and 1960s to support economic growth were not doctors and lawyers, they went to operate the buses and tube.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
In the 1950’s and 60’s the economies of these same countries where vastly different than what they are now. In the case of America Michael Camarota of CIS (Center for Immigration Studies) states that many native-born Americans observe that their ancestors came to America and did not place great demands on government services. Perhaps this is true, but the size and scope of government were dramatically smaller during the last great wave of immigration. Not just means-tested programs, but expenditures on everything from public schools to roads were only a fraction of what they are today. Thus, the arrival of unskilled immigrants in the past did not have the negative fiscal implications that it does today. Moreover, the American economy has changed profoundly since the last
great wave of immigration, with education now the key determinant of economic success. The costs that unskilled immigrants impose simply reflect the nature of the modern American economy and welfare state. It is doubtful that the fiscal costs can be avoided if our immigration policies remain unchanged.
Adrian Hinds // February 17, 2008 at 11:40 AM
The reason why we have immigrants here is that the demand for employment is higher than can be met locally. By meeting this demand they lower our inflation rate from what it would otherwise be. If there were no immigrants, inflation would have to rise to crowd out the demand.
==============================
This is all theory, but when place againt the global activities of 2001 (911) and the GoB response to the economic fallout, this theory cannot explain what occurred in Barbados.
….The national concern about illegal immigration in particular such immigrants from Guyana started in ernest around 2002. In september 2001 the world witness the terrorist bombing in NewYork which led to economic shock around the world. The GoB sought to cushioned the impact sure to result from tourism fall of by pumping money into the economy by starting a massive capital works program. This has the effect of materializing significant activity in the contruction sector. As a result and to head off a shortage of labour which would have resulted in a demand for higher wages, cheap labour was sought and initially brought from Guyana. This fact is contained in the public report of the IMF consultation with GoB 2002. The importation of cheap labour had the intended effect of moderating wages downward. These are the facts, actual occurances that your theory, books and author could not have known about. Now please try to remember that the concerns here are with illegal immigration, and unskilled immigration.
Thomas Gresham // February 17, 2008 at 12:02 PM
Dear David,
There is much empirical work done on the social and economic costs of immigration. It is a well traversed area in economics. The majority of economists have concluded that immigration brings substiantial economic and social benefits.
The height of our profession is the Nobel Prize. To win it your work needs to be some of the most cited, tested and proven. You will not find an Economics Noberl Laureate arguing against our consensus opinion that immigration brings net economic and social benefit. Indeed, the most recent economist specialising in immigration and labour economics, Gary S. Becker, is a strong proponement of the social and economic benefits of immigration, espeically the unskilled immigrants. His work is on the web. I have already cited Legrain’s study of immigration wirtten for non-economists (his recent book is called “Immigrants”).
To illustrate the connection between social cohesion and the economics of immigration let me set out an extreme position of where we “rid Barbados of all Indians or Indo Guyanese” as some of your bloggers would appear to like, even though many Indians and Indo Guyanese are here legally.
Less immigrants means higher inflation and lower growth. The economic case for this has been proved several times over. Please see Gary Becker’s work and the work of other eminent labour economists like This will reduce the purchasing power of wages and so it will further encourage our ablest and brightest to look for jobs abroad like our doctors and scientists. We will be increasingly left with the young and old who do not work and pay taxes and so the government will have less revenues for public services which will deteriorate. Does that promote social cohesion? No. Does that help to shake up the economic structure of Barbados which continues to favour the old plantocracy?
I have always said that we need to get the right balance and on one side of that balance are cultural issues and on the other are economic issues of costs, growth, efficiency and “shake up”. A cautious approach would be to tighten up on illegal immigration and allow new work permits representing 1.5-2% of our labour supply per year, and to put a cap on long-term work permits of 10-15% of our workforce, but to ensure that there are opportunities for unskilled workers to get them – like the lottery system used by the US.
David, you keep calling for a rational debate on how best to manage immigration. Yet whenever I have offered suggestions on how to do so, by weighing up the issues in setting limits, the only response from others on the blog are racist comments on ridding Barbados of Indo Guyanese.
When I think about our history and culture and how much we have suffered at the hands of imperialists who used racist views to justify their actions and who today still cast influence on our economies, I am staggered that there could be so many Barbadians who are content to hold racist views (derogatory characterisations of a race) about fellow travellers.
I have said my bet and this discussion is not progressing so I am going to leave it there.
David, what about a thread on Sandy Lane/Royal Shop/BWU. Where do you think the Minister of Labour or PM is on these issues – lets hope they are negotiating behind the scenes, this looks serious for labour relations as well as for our toursim industry. it doesnt take much to tar our reputation.
Thomas Gresham we refer you to a sister blog http://barbadosfreepress.wordpress.com to see coverage on what you ask.
Analyst // February 17, 2008 at 1:04 PM
Thomas Gresham has been taking many of these blogs promoting his idea of open borders to create efficiencies in labour. he refuses to accept the “REALITIES” that are so obvious to others on the ground. I suggest that he be ignored as he could easily derail the main arguments of the subjects being discussed.
Mr. Gresham is an intelligent person, but being in retirement from his cushy job in a wasteful and useless organization like most UN and aid organizations- writing useless reports and studies and earning big bucks – he has never experienced what it is like at the worker level competing with illegal immigrants for wages, housing etc. May he spend the rest of his life in comfortable retirement talking about the useless reports he has written over the years. We should not be distracted!
The reality is that in East Africa, Fiji, Guyana and Trinidad there is documented truth that Indians were imported as “indentured labourers” to cut the bargaining power of freed slaves after 1840; or to compete with indigenous people (Fiji, East Africa- Uganda).
The competition between the Indians and non-Indians in these territories may have brought economic benefits to the colonialists. They however have left scars from conflicts have have been festering for over 100 years. Now that the Indians have multiplied in Guyana, Trinidad and Fiji, for instance, and are now a political majority they have now asserted themselves as rulers over the non-Indians, with potentially violent results.
Today, the competition of the Indians in For Barbados is just a repeat of the wage competition their forefathers gave to the ex-slaves settled in villages like Buxton, who competed against low wages in the nearby estates like Lusignan. The conflicts of 100 years lives on and is reflected in Guyana politics today…. in the massacres and violence.
Many ask – Why can we all live in peace and harmony.?.. good question! Well go and live in Guyana and study what the government is doing on a day to day basis and you will understand. Read the Trinidad blogs after the Indians lost the elections due to the split Indian vote and you will understand the underlying racism and superiority they project against non-Indians. Study the history of Fiji and you will understand.
It is truly unfortunate that Indians are so engrossed in Mother India and their lost Indian cultures and Bollywood fairy tale India and the potential of India as a world power, that they never become truly Guyanese, Trinidadians or Barbadians. They just take what they want – money and profits for their trinkets – and live their separate lives. That is until they become the majority, as in Guyana – then you know what their money and power brings… the gradual marginalization of non-Indians. Trinidad will have to deal with this reality within the next 10 years and it will not be without violence.
It is difficult to talk about this subject without being sometimes labeled racist. However, being a realist helps ensures that you are not a fool.
Analyst
Adrian Hinds // February 17, 2008 at 1:05 PM
David how many times had you to tell Thomas G that the argument is not about Immigration but about illegal immigration and the immigration of a people who by the many undisputed demonstrated practices in their native society seem incapable of rising above racial divisiveness. What make Thomas G think that they will put off their cultural practices at the port of entry to Barbados? what are the guarantees that any assimilation will take place to negate what is the norm in Guyana from visiting Barbados via the practices of illegal immigration?
…..In spite of the noble prize winning Theorist, studies have been done at the federal level in the US that clearly shows the cost and deficit to the economy of illegal immigration. Illegal immigration has social and economic implications for Barbados whose society and economy has undergone significant changes that allows of welfare and other social programs that can be access by illegal immigrants and thereby resulting in a cost above and beyond what little they contribute. Thinking like an economist as the book says has led us into this spiral of belief that say we have to be continually expanding, and that’s why they would argue in favour of open immigration. The implications for community has never been their concern.
Adrian Hinds // February 17, 2008 at 1:11 PM
Center for Immigration Studies
11
Introduction
As illegal immigration has increased dramatically over the last two decades, so has concern
about its impact on American taxpayers. While other consequences are clearly important,
the fiscal impact of illegal immigration is at the center of the ongoing debate. Surprisingly,
few studies have attempted to measure the total fiscal effect of illegal immigration on the
United States. Several studies have focused on all immigrants, making no distinction by
legal status, and other researchers have examined either the costs imposed by illegals or the
tax payments they make, but not both together. Most of this work has focused on the state
and local level, giving little or no attention to the federal government. Focusing on the
federal government, this study attempts to answer two related questions: First, what effect
do illegal aliens have on the fiscal balance (all taxes paid minus all services used)? Second,
what would happen to the fiscal balance if illegal aliens were legalized?
Why Study the Fiscal Impact of Illegals?
Concern over illegal immigration ranges from national security and the rule of law to the
risk would-be illegals take to enter the country and their well-being once here. But the
fiscal effects are a key part of the issue. In fact, much of the public’s anger over illegal
immigration stems from the belief that illegals are a drain on taxpayers. Past policy responses
to illegal aliens, such as barring them from welfare programs, were also driven by
the desire to minimize fiscal costs. Thus, determining the actual fiscal impact of illegal
immigration is critically important to formulating a policy response to illegal immigration.
The Fiscal Equation. Simply by living in the United States, illegals unavoidably impose
some costs on government. Like all people, illegal aliens enroll their children in public
schools, drive on the roads, and engage in a host of other activities that necessarily cost
government money. They also unavoidably pay taxes. Even when they are paid “off the
books,” they still pay excise and other types of taxes to the government. So the fact that
illegal aliens cost public coffers money does not necessarily mean they are a net drain.
Conversely, the fact that illegals pay taxes does not necessarily mean that they are a fiscal
benefit. At least with regard to fiscal considerations, the key question is the balance between
the taxes they pay and the services they use. This study attempts to estimate both
their tax payments and costs in order to determine their net fiscal impact at the federal
level.
Importance of Current Fiscal Impact. Almost all observers agree that illegal immigration is
a problem. The fiscal impact of illegal immigration has enormous bearings on the question
of what to do about illegal immigration. While employers may want access to immigrant
labor, the fiscal costs to taxpayers must be considered. Understandably, employers can be
counted on to ignore these costs because they are diffuse, borne by all taxpayers, while the
benefit to businesses is obvious. Policy makers, however, must be sensitive to fiscal considerations.
If there are net costs, then this could have a significant impact on the availability
of public services or the tax burden on Americans. If the costs are very large, then the
problem is certainly more urgent. And devoting significant resources to reducing illegal
immigration may be justified because doing so would leave taxpayers with a significant net
savings. On the other hand, if illegals impose little or no costs on taxpayers, this too should
play some role in shaping policy.
Legalizing Illegals. Many politicians have indicated their strong desire to give illegal aliens
Anonymous // February 17, 2008 at 2:47 PM
David seem to be encouraging Gresham and his misrepresentations – by constantly appealing to that missing ingredient – common sense and honesty in analysis.
Many commenters have asked David and other bloggers to ignore the rubbish Gresham writes,yet David keeps explaining and appealing to him that he is concerned about the social and economic impacts of these unwanted illegals.
You think Gresham cares,as long as he is given leeway to keep on repeating his mantra and David/BU and others keep responding to it,then he is happy,and the discussion gets skewed.
Ah well.
Top Posts « WordPress.com // February 17, 2008 at 8:02 PM
[...] Norman Faria (Guyana’s Honorary Consul) Responds To Indo-Guyanese Debate [image]At the risk of being subjected to the abuse of being called racist we have decided to continue with our analysis […] [...]
Really? // February 17, 2008 at 11:38 PM
The Caribbean and the Singapore Crime Model
Selwyn Ryan
Sunday, February 17th 2008
The issue is crime, stupid! That is the refrain one hears most frequently in Guyana, Trinidad and Tobago, Jamaica and the Bahamas. More than ever, crime seems to be overwhelming Caribbean societies. The Economist of February 2 in fact describes the Caribbean, with some exaggeration, as”the world’s most violent region” No government seems to have a clue as to what to do about the phenomenon. I dare say, no opposition party has an answer either, their claims to the contrary notwithstanding. Most seek to play politics with the issue, using it as a wedge to propel themselves into power
Recent events in Guyana are especially worrying for the region as a whole, especially since they have already had a mirror effect in Laventille, and may do so in other parts of the Caribbean. What we have heard in respect of Guyana is that a gang of some 20 heavily armed escapees from prison shot up a police station and a number of homes which were reportedly inhabited by persons who had assisted the police. When the smoke lifted in the mainly Indo-Guyanese village of Lusignan, eleven persons were killed, five of whom were children. Three other persons were wounded. The gang was also said to have been responsible for killing the Minister of Agriculture in 2006.
An outraged President Jagdeo described the gang as “sick and demented criminals who had to be hunted down”. Jagdeo was savaged by an outraged citizenry, including members of his own party, for not doing nearly enough to deal with the outlaw element. The leader of the PNP, Mr Robert Corbin, was equally enraged. “We see such killings as horrible and senseless; they have no place in our society”. Corbin chastised the Guyana President for his Government’s failure in the area of security. As he complained, “the Guyanese people are reaping a bitter harvest from the incompetence, neglect, mal-administration and poor governance of the Jagdeo/PPP/C regime.”
Corbin also accused the Guyana President of rashly and unfairly blaming residents of the Afro-Guyanese village of Buxton-Friendship for supporting and sheltering the criminals.
What began as a heinous crime, has in fact now become an ethnic issue in which Afro-Guyanese villagers and their defenders were being pitted against Indo-Guyanese villagers, their co-ethnics, and the Government. If the matter is not delicately handled, Guyana could again become the tinder box of the Caribbean.
What is also becoming evident in Guyana and the Caribbean generally, is that a besieged citizenry has grown impatient with the police, and is calling on authorities to use unorthodox and extra-judicial measures to search for and destroy the criminals. They do not want to be told that the problem is a worldwide one that will take time and a great deal of resources to fix “holistically,” all of which is of course true. They want action now. The complaint is that democratic policing strategies are not working.
There is however a stubborn minority which insists that authoritarian solutions could become transformed into monstrosities which would in time constitute a greater danger to the society as has already happened in Guyana, and which has become the norm in Latin America. The fear is that the police could become the problem rather than the hoped-for solution.
Some who support alternative strategies of policing have been looking at the Singapore model. Singapore’s low crime rate is attributed to its elaborate system of citizen surveillance, a strong police force, and a very punitive justice system. All Singaporeans have to be registered and fingerprinted and must also carry identification cards. There is also a dense network of citizen committees which monitor the movement of individuals.
The Internal Security Act also gives police the authority to detain suspects without trial. Judges are also kept on a tight leash and some have been fired. Appeals to the Privy Council have also been discontinued.
Political dissent and other forms of social deviance have likewise been criminalised and Singaporeans have to be careful what they communicate via the internet. Many in fact censor themselves for fear that they might be caught in the electronic dragnet that they know exists.
In sum, the price that Singapore has had to pay for its low incidence of crime is that it has become a veritable garrison state.
One study of the Singaporean model (Race and State in Independent Singapore), authored by John Clammer, in fact had the following to say. “The Singapore experience demonstrates that economic development does not abolish crime. What it does is displace it. While street crime is very low, white collar crime is on the increase Singapore, [a society of fear], perhaps exists as a warning that crime can indeed be minimized, but at the cost of excessive control and the suppression of non-criminal deviance Singapore has in a sense institutionalized the whole population, if not in a prison, then certainly in a gigantic school ”
The Minister of National Security, Mr Martin Joseph, has observed that the “challenge we face is that we do not want to create any kind of garrison community.” One suspects that he is correct in his belief that Trinidadians, being who they are culturally and historically, would not be willing to give up their cherished “freedoms”, even if that is what is required to save the society from becoming virtually “imprisoned” by the criminal element, which we are told is expanding its operations from Laventille to other parts of the island as the heat is applied to that enclave. The issue however has to be put on the table for democratic discussion since choices have to be made.
Analyst // February 18, 2008 at 6:58 AM
Another massacre in Guyana:
Gunmen murder 12 at Bartica
Large gang came by river, attacked police station, fired wildly, three cops among dead
By Nigel Williams and Miranda La Rose
Monday, February 18th 2008 – Stabreek News. Guyana
http://www.stabroeknews.com/index.pl/article_general_news?id=56539330
Analyst
Sister Baby // February 18, 2008 at 7:14 AM
Gunmen kill 12 and many more injured in the lastest massacre in Guyana. I think we need to revert back to a British colony. Well some folks are saying bring back the British.
FreeBajan // February 18, 2008 at 8:27 AM
It astounds me that Bajans are as zenophobic as this Guyanese debate continues to illustrate…Ask Sir Hilary Beckles about how Guyana took in Bajans in the thousands not too long ago – in our time of need. Also – the racial tension being raised only speaks to the simmering ethnic tension in our own post-colonial society – with or without Indo-Guyanese. In this world of global culture and disappearing state lines, divisions within a small island (and within a small region) are entirely pointless. Let’s heal and move forward as one people – West Indians.
March born // February 18, 2008 at 9:28 AM
Ask Sir Hilary Beckles about how Guyana took in Bajans in the thousands not too long ago – in our time of need.
………………………………………………………..
Not so long ago? Please inform us when, who,where, how this migration to Guyana took place Freebajan. Hilary Beckles credibility is at same level as Clyde Mascoll and George Belle. I need evidence to believe anything Beckles say.
Bottom line is Thompson and gob has to manage our immigration situation. Owen Arthur and Norman Faria used the ‘thousands not so long ago’ to intimidate Bajans in their own country. I dont hate Guyanese but our police are picking up illegal Guyanese here who are wanted for murder back in Guyana. We are playing a dangerous game. Our beloved pecaeful island can easily descend into a Trinidad or Guyana if we are not vigilant and control our borders.
Illegals must leave. The legal ones can remain. Its simple. Are you following the massacres taking place in Guyana so called FreeBajan?
Adrian Hinds // February 18, 2008 at 9:30 AM
FreeBajan // February 18, 2008 at 8:27 am
It astounds me that Bajans are as zenophobic as this Guyanese debate continues to illustrate…Ask Sir Hilary Beckles about how Guyana took in Bajans in the thousands not too long ago – in our time of need. Also – the racial tension being raised only speaks to the simmering ethnic tension in our own post-colonial society – with or without Indo-Guyanese. In this world of global culture and disappearing state lines, divisions within a small island (and within a small region) are entirely pointless. Let’s heal and move forward as one people – West Indians.
==============================
This is a distortion of historical events. Barbadians are joined by many other societies around the world whose leaders and economic theorist have unleashed the theory of open borders as an economic tool to further expand economies. This label of being xenophobic is wishy washy designed to silence legitimate opposition as part of an organize attack to desensitize, Jam, and convert opposition to open borders. Not that you are responsible for this approach as it is most likely that you are just regurgitating what sounds good and is emotionaly acceptable to you.
I listen to Hillary Beckles last night in TV and while his presentation shed a new understanding of people changing identities over long periods of time,….an example would be that slaves would have seen themselves as mandingo, yoruba etc, and after a period in the west Indies their decendants would then view themselves as creoles, and their decendents would then take on the identity of Barbadian, Jamaican etc…. This is a clear and precise historical interpretation of the African in the caribbean over a period of time. I was hoping for a similar synopsis of the Indian in Trinidad and Guyana. I would argue that these people for the most part continue to see themselves as Indian first and that the transformation that is so clearly delineated in the decendentcy of the African in the caribbean is not to be found in the Indian in the caribbean. This brings me back to what is to be found in Guyana and Trinidad, the racial divide that many of those who are quick to label Barbadians as xenophobic are not in the least bit addressing. It cannot be denied that the Indian in Guyana and Trinidad have for sometime exercise racial attitudes towards their afro neighbour,….the prodominantly black population in Barbados witnessing these things and as a result voices concern that these people are allowed into our space is now to be concidered as being xenophobic demonstrates to me a recklessness on the part of those who so do. It cannot be denied that Barbadians have not being so animated and united against the presense of St.Lucians, Vicentians, Jamaicans and other world citizens in Barbados as they are against the Indo guyanese why is this? why is there this unwillingness to look at the cultural practices of the Indo-guyanese to see if the answer can be found there? Is it because there is no willingness to find the correct answer?
Sister Baby // February 18, 2008 at 9:42 AM
Barbados will never become like Guyana. Look the people want to come to Barbados and I say allow them in. Just this morning the white appearing foreign minster of Guyana appeared on the news saying that you all not acting appropriately regarding the free movement of skills and that Guyana is not backing down in regard to Barbados’ behavour regarding this matter.
Sister Baby // February 18, 2008 at 9:45 AM
What race is Norman Faria? Enquiring Guyanese wants to know. Is he English and who is he married to? If he loves Guyana so much why is he Barbados. He should be in Guyana/
Sister Baby // February 18, 2008 at 9:49 AM
Maybe we should partition Guyana. The Indians can have Berbice, which is near Suriname, and we in Essequibo and Demerara. Our capital would be Georgetown and their New Amsterdam.
Adrian Hinds // February 18, 2008 at 9:55 AM
FreeBajan // February 18, 2008 at 8:27 am
In this world of global culture and disappearing state lines, divisions within a small island (and within a small region) are entirely pointless. Let’s heal and move forward as one people – West Indians.
==============================
How do you become “ALL” west Indians. IF it is accepted that the English speaking Afro Caribbean person has transcended his African identity (Mandingo, Yoruba etc) to become creoles and now Barbadian, Jamaican, etc with the next logical step of becoming West Indian, can we say the English speaking In-do-Caribbean person has so done? I don’t think so. I have no interest in forming alliances or forging new identities with unwilling partners.
Adrian Hinds // February 18, 2008 at 9:58 AM
Sister Baby // February 18, 2008 at 9:49 am
Maybe we should partition Guyana. The Indians can have Berbice, which is near Suriname, and we in Essequibo and Demerara. Our capital would be Georgetown and their New Amsterdam.
==============================
Can’t happened you cannot make changes to the landscape to give to the indo and afro Guanese what Suriname and Venezuela still maintain claims too. I maintain that Guyana is a failed state and that the only thing that has any chance of reuniting it’s people is a direct and imminent military threat from either of it’s nieghbours.
Anonymous // February 18, 2008 at 10:24 AM
Well, General Chavez next door just waiting to pounce pun we, well as for Suriname they are like we, hand to mouth, so we don’t expect anything form them
Adrian Hinds // February 18, 2008 at 10:42 AM
Anonymous // February 18, 2008 at 10:24 am
Well, General Chavez next door just waiting to pounce pun we, well as for Suriname they are like we, hand to mouth, so we don’t expect anything form them
==============================
Don’t be so sure of Suriname’s unwillingness to invade Guyana, in fact it is more likely to be initiated by the economically weaker of the two neighbours. The economics of never ending expansion is followed by Suriname too, and what is a quicker way to derive economic benefit than plundering the land and resource of a foreign people? Guyan has shown no interest in the vast interior of their country prefering to settle if not huddle on the cost line, the potential for oil, and other minerals is huge. If we believe that the US invaded Iraq for oil, don’t you think that Suriname can bolster their historic claim with such thinking at this time?
FreeBajan // February 18, 2008 at 1:24 PM
Thanks for all the responses.
I just feel, and thats what all these posts are – just feelings, that the Guyanese are our neighbours and close historical cousins. I agree that in an island as small as Barbados we need checks that will put a halt to illegal migration.
However, the argument seems to be a scaremongering operation, for us to be wary of a particular racial set. I do not accept this!
Steady on Adrian Hinds – regurgitating what feels good? I suspect its what we all do – unless you were born educated and opinionated?
I know that many Barbadians have family trees that lead back to Guyana – that is evidence surely of our cultural connection.
In the UK, it is only the National Front who terms xenophobia as “wishy washy”. It means what it says – and very much revolves around fear.
What about the wonderful work done by skilled Guyanese (Indo and otherwise) in our fair land? They have improved the quality of food by a mile if you ask me!
I’m a regionalist – what is the point of this CSME initiative, if we’re suspicious and fearful of eachother?! We were so disappointed in the Jamaicans for jumping ship from the Federation for fear of weaker nations pulling them down – yet we seem to be creating barriers between us and our “failed state” of a neighbour. It probably speaks to why we have not properly exploited the connection to our benefit – Guyana could be our bread basket now that we can’t afford to feed ourselves.
I thought that Barbados was “friend to all and satellite of none”?
Anonymous // February 18, 2008 at 1:32 PM
I bet that the people who killed those 12 people in Guyana will be in Barbados chilling out by this evening.
aubrey // February 18, 2008 at 2:58 PM
FreeBajan…you have my support. Racism is racism where-ever and however it tries to present a different face.If there is a problem with illegal immigration, then the Gov,t must deal with it ,as with criminal activity.
Many of the Afro-guyanese I have met, claim Bajan roots so there must have been B,dos-to-Guyana immigration.
Also, just because someone has a doctorate does not mean that that individual is always basing his or her opinions on factual evidence.
I certainly hope that Barbadians would examine all the facts (not assumptions) and base their ideas and decisions on evidence.
Adrian Hinds // February 18, 2008 at 3:03 PM
FreeBajan // February 18, 2008 at 1:24 pm
Thanks for all the responses.
I just feel, and thats what all these posts are – just feelings, that the Guyanese are our neighbours and close historical cousins. I agree that in an island as small as Barbados we need checks that will put a halt to illegal migration.
==========
I am compel to tell you, that at all times you should recognize reality and in addition to your feelings, that you should also process the world with your beliefs, with your facts and with your understanding of the ideas that gave birth to the same facts. Reality and our recall to reason will undoubtedly and unbiasly lead us to conclude that uncheck illegal and even llegal immigration can have negative social and economical implications Barbados.
==============================
FreeBajan // February 18, 2008 at 1:24 pm
However, the argument seems to be a scaremongering operation, for us to be wary of a particular racial set. I do not accept this!
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How so Freebee how so? we have highlighted what pertains in Guyana, what has been the approach of Indo-Guyanese Leaders as they relate to racial harmony in Guyana, we are only reporting their actions. Please don’t make us responsible for this.
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FreeBajan // February 18, 2008 at 1:24 pm
Steady on Adrian Hinds – regurgitating what feels good? I suspect its what we all do – unless you were born educated and opinionated?
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…Sorry you came away with this immpression I merely sought to deal with your use of the word xenophobic only. I think it is heavy handed and an attempt to win the argument without presenting a solid argument yourself. If you haven’t realize it as yet i am the least qualified person to attack a person’s education or intelligence, having little myself. :D
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FreeBajan // February 18, 2008 at 1:24 pm
I know that many Barbadians have family trees that lead back to Guyana – that is evidence surely of our cultural connection.
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Indeed this is the case, and on a personal level their may be some truth to the joke that Sam Hinds and i are relatives given the known fact that my father was a frequent visitor to the islands and Guyana. If i have half sisters in Barbados and i do, it is not a stretch to think that i have them in other islands and Guyana as well. :D This does not however change my view on illegal immigration in particular the current concern in Barbados.
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FreeBajan // February 18, 2008 at 1:24 pm
In the UK, it is only the National Front who terms xenophobia as “wishy washy”. It means what it says – and very much revolves around fear.
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The national Front does not have automy on dismissing that word. A word cannot mean anything on it’s own without Human interpretation, and that is where it fails when it is press into use by persons who it seems have the wish to silence as their primary reason for envoking it. Even when it’s interpretation is given it must then be place against the action it’s utterer is intending to defined by it, and this again is where it falls down.
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FreeBajan // February 18, 2008 at 1:24 pm
What about the wonderful work done by skilled Guyanese (Indo and otherwise) in our fair land? They have improved the quality of food by a mile if you ask me!
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Why should this matter? One should not get into the habit of rewarding lawbreakers no matter what they do after the fact.
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FreeBajan // February 18, 2008 at 1:24 pm
’m a regionalist – what is the point of this CSME initiative, if we’re suspicious and fearful of eachother?! We were so disappointed in the Jamaicans for jumping ship from the Federation for fear of weaker nations pulling them down – yet we seem to be creating barriers between us and our “failed state” of a neighbour. It probably speaks to why we have not properly exploited the connection to our benefit – Guyana could be our bread basket now that we can’t afford to feed ourselves.
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Being a regionalist should not deny you the ability to indentify significant problems with the integration process and from seeking to resolve them. Ignoring them is not the way. I think that Edward Seaga’s view on why the Federation fail is the same reason why CSME is not being embrace by the caribbean people, is fundamentally correct. The top down approah did not work then and it will not work now.
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FreeBajan // February 18, 2008 at 1:24 pm
I thought that Barbados was “friend to all and satellite of none”?
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Sure it is, but are we not also allowed to define what “friends” means to us? It certainly cannot mean opening our Borders to every illegal Tom, dick, and Harry.
Analyst // February 18, 2008 at 4:32 PM
Aubrey said: Many of the Afro-Guyanese I have met, claim Bajan roots so there must have been B,dos-to-Guyana immigration.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
This is correct. This started during slavery as “Barbados was one the distribution points forf slaves from West Africa. slavery was abolished in 1836.
After 1850 many Barbadians left for Guyana to work in sugar, gold and the civil service. The first police force established by the British was mostly staffed by over 400 Barbadian recruits…
The first two Guyanese presidents – Burnham and Hoyte had Barbadian roots. Many in the middle classes lawyers, doctors and teachers could trace their Barbadian roots. Most of these people no longer live in Guyana due to the political/economic situation there.
Check the archives in Barbados and you will find that there was a lot of trade and movement of people in the colonial times as the English masters looked on their territories in an integrated way moving capital and labour and expertise between them.
the Indian immigration after 1840 was to counter the labour demands by blacks, and has created some of the problems in Guyana and Trinidad. This, added to cultural, religious differences, aided by “race politics” , has created the problems we now see.
The shootings in Guyana are just a continuation of the “insurrection” that started in 2001, with the escapees from the jail. Over 1100 people have died in this carnage since 2000.
There is a political-drugs- government-racial connection in all of this that seems to be in the “black marginalisation debate” that is now going on in Guyana.
Analyst
Technician // February 18, 2008 at 5:06 PM
We all seem to be straying from the real issues.I don’t think it is that Bajans hate Guyanese.I think it has a lot more to do with us being concerned about the illegal ones here.
Lets face it, with the kind of brutality going on there, it is obvious we will be concerned.
The most wanted man that may be responsible for those murders has said he has his people here.
Have anyone seen the rise in criminal activity by non-nationals recently.
My good friend was robbed and beaten on Saturday morning, while he had stopped to check a noise coming from the wheel of his car.He was kicked, beaten and stabbed by a broken beer bottle.
In all the melee, he picked up on the non-national accent of his attackers.
How else do you expect us as Bajans to react?
I have friends who are non-nationals and they are ashamed at what some of their fellow countrymen are doing here.
Maybe it is time to be drastic and have some immigration raids just like drug raids.
If you papers are in order, then you dont have to worry.
Whatever the authorities do, it must be done fast because this situation is getting out of hand.
I cant help thinking that a wanted murderer can be so bold as to say he has his people here….well that just has me uneasy.
David // February 18, 2008 at 6:34 PM
We have received several emails which continue to create sadness in the BU household. We don’t mind being call names; what we mind is the ignorance which ‘intelligent’ Barbadians are showing about this issue. We have been calling for a curb to the open door policy of immigration and the large immigrant Indo-Indian population. We have created context for our argument to illustrate how if this situation remains as is, Barbados could easily import the criminal behaviour which is currently being played out in Guyana and Trinidad, and can be used as case studies for observing Blacks and Indians co-existing.
ALL WE HAVE ASKED IS FOR BETTER MANAGEMENT OF THE SITUATION.
We remember well the same approach being used to manage the public service vehicles, illegal vending, and law and order with a focus on traffic violations. It is routine for people to be seen running red lights today; Barbadians now accept it as the norm.
The high order ignorance which Barbadians at home and abroad continue to direct at this issue is amazing. The stupid argument that Barbadians were accepted by Guyana is so irrelevant that it makes us fume each and every time we hear it.
Normandy // February 18, 2008 at 7:03 PM
David dont be deterred. Most of those emails probably from a particular ethnic group or non nationals. Barbados better wake and smell the coffee. While we argue illegals arriving by the plane load. Trinidad recently deported two plane loads of Guyanese. A rising Indo- Guyanese population here spells bare trouble.
Adrian Hinds // February 18, 2008 at 8:59 PM
David Forward these emails to me so that i can respond to them and include them on my email list of all things Guyanese. :D
Jefferson Keyes // February 18, 2008 at 11:26 PM
I am overly concern that sooner or later barbados will be over run by Guyanese Indian. There will become the majority and we will be in the minority. Look at what happened in Fiji. lok at the turmoil and confusion between the Blacks and the Indians in Trinidad and Guyana. Do we want this to happen in Bim. Hell no. Our late Prime Minister Errol Barrow once said. ” If we are not careful, one morning we are going to wake up and fine that we do not own Barbados”. Looks like it is coming to past.
Thomas Gresham // February 19, 2008 at 12:41 AM
Dear David,
You like to repeat “We have been calling for a curb to the open door policy of immigration and the large immigrant Indo-Indian population.”
I assume what you meant to say on this occassion was the “large” illegal immigrant Indo-Indian population. (I am not sure what Indo-Indian means exactly but I can guess.)
But three things prove that in fact what you are about is just inciting racial hatred.
First, you have no idea of the nature of your problem: how large is illegal immigration in Barbados and what proportion are “Indian” versus black? Do you know? Is it all Indians that scare you David or just Hindus or Muslims or Roman Catholics or Indians from Guyana or Indians from Gujurat? What proportion of the illegal immigrants are the particular Indians that scare you? Any idea at all?
And what is the problem? What is the statistical evidence of crime and social breakdown in Barbados caused by these Indians that you fear. The wealth of evidence on social matters elsewhere is that immigrant populations, legal and illegal, have less crime, are more family oriented and more focused on education for their children than the locals. What social behaviour is it that you fear that is being brought in by the same Indians that you fear? Do you fear that they work harder?
You say look at Trinidad and Guyana. And if crime is lower and social cohesion stronger in the Indian communities in those countries what would that prove? But this is just another straw man. Barbados is not Guyana or Trinidad or Fiji. It does not have a colonial history which made these populations of race fairly even in size. Its like saying the Brits should kick out all blacks in Britain, or the Germans should kick out all the Turks to make sure that they don’t take over.
And if all you are trying to do is to curb the “open door immigration policy” why don’t you make a single proposal so that we can progress the discussion. Just one. Tell us how you are going to determine who you let in and who you don’t? But no, you would rather just let the racists have their say over and over and over again.
You say you are just being a realist. That’s exactly what Enoch Powell said in the UK with his “rivers of blood” speech about how whites and blacks could not co-exist in Britain. He was wrong. But his speech launched the National Front that for decades beat up blacks and other immigrants. You ignore all data and evidence to the contrary to spread a cancer that we reject everywhere else.
Thomas Gresham // February 19, 2008 at 1:01 AM
Oh, and all those people who say in that racist cliche that one day we are going to wake up and find the country run by Guyanese Indians, clearly have not woken up to the fact that this country has never been owned by blacks.
It continues, for far longer than it should, to be owned by the same small minority. I can assure you that this minority is not Indo-Guyanese. Have a look at the names on the share register of BS&T.
And when I look around at how content most of our people are to let things just be I think our best bet to shake up this plantocracy, or at least make them better at running the shop, is to set some hungry immigrants upon them.
When it comes to distribution of power and wealth in this coutry, it is not the Indo-Guyanese that are eating our lunch.
Analyst // February 19, 2008 at 1:03 AM
Thomas Gresham … Why do you not go back to sleep… you are ab educated idiot!
Sister Baby // February 19, 2008 at 4:21 AM
Guyana is not a failed state, but a state of mind that not a single one of you is able to comprehend. To know Guyana is to love Guyana and Guyanese, but unfortunately, you all stuck in the plantocracy (Thom Gresham said that) of Barbados. Some of you going to our newspapers and reading stupidness by some crazy University of Guyana Turkeyen campus professor, then coming here and repeating it like if it’s the Gospels. I wonder if you all know that quite a few Black appearing Guyanese have East Indian in them, and vice versa. You know a good 20% of all Guyanese are mixed with Black, East Indian, Chinese or white. So I wonder how you feel about those Guyanese. Well we have 30,000 illegal Brazilians in Guyana and it is high time we start sending them home before they take over our country, as I am unable to learn another European language at my tender age. And as you know they are largely Roman Catholic with Obeah in it, so out goes my Pentecostal Holiness Christian religion.
Anonymous // February 19, 2008 at 4:23 AM
Linden is a city in Guyana and the crime rate there is very low.
Sister Baby // February 19, 2008 at 4:38 AM
My goodness, Guyanese Indians don’t have money to buy Barbados, now Adrian Loveridge and his types do. Look one Guyana dollar and one US cent, so how our Indians will buy your country. You mean Sir Allen Stanford will buy your country or the man that owns British Virgin Airways, or Simone Cowell, the only way Guyanese will buy your country is if you want to barter some tamarind balls, some sugar cake, some salt fish cakes and such.
David // February 19, 2008 at 5:20 AM
On behalf of the BU household, we extend our heartfelt sympathy to the families affected in yesterday’s brutal killings in Guyana, the second incident in recent weeks. It makes us as a small island realize even more how vulnerable we are. It could easily happen in Barbados if we are not vigilant and mange our affairs with all eyes opened.
Sister Baby // February 19, 2008 at 6:46 AM
Guyana has a dear friend in the great nation of Trinidad and Tobago. Trinidad and Tobago have offered to assist us during this time of crisis. Trinidad and Tobago have always been there for Guyana. For example we have one scheduled airline serving our country and that is the national airline of Trinidad and Tobago, the world class Caribbean Airlines which is also the national airline of Guyana. Trinidad and Tobago has given us oil, and they have forgiven debts, and their companies operate in Guyana, Republic Bank Guyana, T. Geddes Grant, Royal Castle, Colonial Life, Neal & Massey, Ainlim, and so on. So you see we have our dear friend Trinidad and Tobago. We don’t need others.
Wait // February 19, 2008 at 8:21 AM
So you see we have our dear friend Trinidad and Tobago. We don’t need others.
”””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””’
Sister baby this is good news. Please share this information with your fellow Guyanese who are fleeing to Barbados. That way they will stop in at your dear friend and leave our sweet little island in peace.
Anonymous // February 19, 2008 at 8:26 AM
I read Mr. Thoms Gresham’s piece on the Bajan authorities deporting his Guyanese maid because she had overstayed her visa, and the subsequent poor treatment by Guyanese authorities upon her returnto Guyana. I think these illegals that are embarassing our country deserve poor treatment, and better yet should be placed in labour camps for causing our country to become the laughing stock of the world. we need workers to build up Guyana. Guyana rarely deports people, and I think the illegals into Barbados from Guyana think that the same is true in other countries, so they just break other countries laws.
Anonymous // February 19, 2008 at 8:35 AM
Hi Wait, On a a serious note Trinidad has always dealt gently with Guyana. There are thousands so them in T&T. They say Port-of-Spain is like New York City. So I think it might be the tall buildings that attract them. You have taller buildings than Guyana too, so that could be it. Oh I wonder if they want to meet white poeple. I know Guyanese masterly love white people, o I am wondering if they are coming to meet the white tourists. You see this is my simple Guyanese analysis of the problem.
degap // February 19, 2008 at 8:53 AM
“The Big Payback”
Norman Faria is an incessant whiner, so I find him very annoying, but he’s right on point. These pseudo-academics are very tiring. Burnham and his negrocrats destroyed that country and “marginalized” (whatever that means) the coolies. The coolies are now returning the favor. That’s life; get over it!
Sister Baby // February 19, 2008 at 9:25 AM
The destruction of Guyana began with Jagan and his communist ways. Indians prospered under Burnham in Guyana, but they could never fully support him as they also wanted to please Jagan.
Anonymous // February 19, 2008 at 9:27 AM
Norman Faria should be asked why he is in Barbados, for we ceratinly don’t need a honourary councel there.
David // February 19, 2008 at 8:54 PM
See Press Release from Faria the Guyana Consul in Barbados. Please note we did not edit or run spell check.
Totally Democratic // February 20, 2008 at 10:56 AM
Mr. Faria needs to face reality….and stop his burrrying his head in the sand..
eureka // February 20, 2008 at 8:58 PM
As far as memory serves, Guyanese were coming to Barbados from time immemorial. Many Barbadians emigrated there too during the early years prior to its independence when it was then British Guiana.
To get to the point, Bajans don’t hate Guyanese as Norman Faria and his sympathisers would wish others to believe. It is all about large numbers of people hiding from immigration authorities and doing jobs for lower than normal wages.
What right-thinking bajans are concerned about is: if the system is allowed to overheat, there will come a time where the entire ship will explode. Should we wait for that mishap to occur when we can introduce measures to properly regulate all persons coming to these shores; not just Guyanese, otherwise these fields and hills will definitely be beyond recall.
Notwithstanding all the hype from Norman Faria about xenophobia in bajans, he still chooses to live here. If we are so bad, why doesn’t he go back to his beloved land? No one is stopping him from making the trip.
Anonymous // February 20, 2008 at 9:14 PM
Norman Faria has a Bajan connection just like Rihanna has a Guyanese conenction. He also has an East Indian wife. You think he will leave the good life in Barbados for a place like Guyana. That man is not stupid.
Georgetown not // February 20, 2008 at 10:10 PM
Anonymous you have me dying with laugh hahahahhaha
Sister Baby // February 21, 2008 at 6:55 AM
Eureka, Norman Faria can’t make the trip to Guyana because LIAT will leave his luggage at BGI, and the things he is used to in BGI are not available in Guyana. Barbados will not become like Guyana, all the people want to do is come and do a little maid work and catch glimpes of you all rich and famous tourists, like Simon Cowell, Paul Mc Carthey, and evenDr. Ikael Tefari, and say Hi to Dr. Esther Sookoo, seh is we girl you know. Duh is it. What you think we will do, split the BLP in half with Mia Mottley as leader of the Guyanese side of the party.
Adrian Hinds // February 21, 2008 at 11:40 AM
Sister Baby // February 21, 2008 at 6:55 am
Eureka, Norman Faria can’t make the trip to Guyana because LIAT will leave his luggage at BGI, and the things he is used to in BGI are not available in Guyana. Barbados will not become like Guyana, all the people want to do is come and do a little maid work and catch glimpes of you all rich and famous tourists, like Simon Cowell, Paul Mc Carthey, and evenDr. Ikael Tefari, and say Hi to Dr. Esther Sookoo, seh is we girl you know. Duh is it. What you think we will do, split the BLP in half with Mia Mottley as leader of the Guyanese side of the party.
==============================
Mia was in Guyana in a canoe, I am surprise de dam thing floated in the first place and did capsize after she was able squeeze herself into it. :d
Is it only me or is Mia’s voice interchangeable with David Simmons and when she slims down she like just like him? ummmm
Sister Baby // February 22, 2008 at 1:52 AM
Adrian, Thank you but I saw that video last year from Captain Jerry’s Roraima Air website. But I enjoyed viewing it again. Man look leave deh gyal alone. The girl looked lovely touring a lovely country. Happy Mashramani. Happy weekend. In fact she looked relaxed in the pristine country side of the lovely country. She has a following in Guyana you know. Bye
Tessy // February 22, 2008 at 4:58 PM
For a long time I was fed up with Norman Faria all the time trying to make this country seem as if we are some heartless bruts who dont like guyanaese. When a plane load of them came here without passports, money and no place of abode he condem immigrations actions of sending them back to Guyana… Now my question is .. Can they show up in the good ole USA and do that!!! NO … HELL NO…
Then we had the Prime Minister of Guyana condemming Barbados… translation?? We poor and facing issues out hey and wuhhah Bajans send we back home????
How in the name of all that is good can guyana expect to continue to allow so many of their people to leave and go to other islands and expect those island to feel totally welcomed to a host of immigratants who are mostly illegal.???
Worldwide the issue of migration is addressed however in this rock we are not suppose to say anything..
Since Barbados is primarly made up of a Black population with whites and other ethicities, see the influx of so many indian decendents leaves one to wonder if there is a racial shift… however, given that many indian dedendants have show a dislike towards blacks in guyana leaves one to wonder exactly why and what they love to come to this country for.
Canada Discriminates Against Caribbean Applicants To Their Skilled Workers Program « // February 28, 2008 at 1:55 AM
[...] Underground have written exhaustively on the issue of the Barbados immigration policy. We have stated repeatedly that we [...]
Anonymous // March 1, 2008 at 2:57 PM
It is interesting to note that in today’s Trinidad Guardian – Saturday 1st March,there is an article which states that 5 illegal guyanese among a total of 15 illegal persons were held in Port of Spain and are to be deported.
These raids and deportations of guyanese and other south americans and africans have been happening recently with some frequency in Trinidad.
Is Trinidad xenophobic too ?
Secondly did anyone note that the Police PRO Barry Hunte stated in his press release yesterday that someone was held for the recent robberies and that someone is a Barbadian.
Interesting that he spelt that out – I hope this trend will continue and that they will always tell us the nationalities of all criminals.
Thomas Gresham // March 1, 2008 at 8:52 PM
Dear Annonymous,
Let me try and spell it out in simple terms.
NO ONE has argued that deporting illegal immigrants is xenophobic or racist.
What we have said is that targeting Indo-Guyanese amongst illegal immigrants, and describing all Indo-Guyanese with negative characteristics and arguing that they are inherent, is racist.
Reading this blog you would think that Indo-Guyanese are the perpetrators of crime, not victims of crime. You would think that Immigrants do not work hard and save hard. You would think all Indians are cast-ridden hindus who believe that blacks are the bottom of all castes, when many Indians are Muslim and most hindus no longer believe in caste and caste is not inherent.
Suggesting that Indo-Guyanese immigrants are somehow linked to a rise in violence and a tearing of our social fabric, without any substantiation (the evidence elsewhere is that immigrants, especially illegal immigrants, stay away from crime for fear of deportation) is akin to the arguments used byEnoch Powell against Black West Indian immigrants.
What we have said is that not putting sufficient weight on the benefits that immigrants (legal and illegal, skilled and unskilled) provide, especially when we are faced with high cost of living (immigration lowers it) slow growth (immigration speeds it up) and a rigid distribution of wealth (immigration shakes that up) is xenophobic.
Your arguments have been shot down as racist. Dont try and play innocent.
Bharat Devi // March 4, 2008 at 10:19 AM
The only reason there is this anti Indo Guyanese sentiment is because one Adrian Hinds dated an Indo Guyanese girl in America. Her Babu went to America and told her to break it off with him as he probably drove the family crazy with love for this girl as he is driving us crazy with his hate for Indo Guyanese. His hate runs so deep that he seeks to influence an entire nation of 300,000 nice citizens to disallow Indo Guyanese immigration. I am Indo Guyanese and I would NEVER visit Barbados.
Anonymous // March 4, 2008 at 11:33 AM
Thank you bharat devi for not coming to Barbados,because this will help us save taxpayers money from having to deport you for committing crime or your women prostituting themselves.
Your cousins and their family will soon be returning to your lovely crime riddled country under the much admired racist against blacks regime – of President Jagdeo.
Good riddance to bad rubbish.
Amala Devi // March 4, 2008 at 11:51 PM
Jyoti Bharat Devi that is what the tourist like when they visit Barbados, so no Jyoti Bharat-Guyana Devi, no tourists. According to one Adrian Hinds as is written above by Indian Goddess the Phupha of the devi went over to America and rescued his bhanji from the grips of one Adrian Hinds. Uncle knew that he would not be a good nephew in law, so uncle broke the relationship off, and the rest is history. He is going around saying all sorts of bad things about Bharat Guyanese, and will stop at nothing until he dies. As babu once said, true love never dies once the person is living. He really likes Indo Guyanese and we know it.
Anon, So if we are bad rubbish then in Barbados there is good rubbish. Only in Barbados WHEW! President Jagdeo is a good man and he is not racist. You just have to love yoru country enought to love your/my President, but unfortunately you can only love a president of your own kind. For you it’s apaan jhaat forever. Namaste
Negroman // March 7, 2008 at 12:39 PM
Indian are intrinsically racist.Indo-Guyanese have those traits.We Barbadians must be aware of the myriad of problems that could and will occur if this high influx of Indo-Guyanese is allow to continue on abated.We just have to observe the happenings in Trinidad and Guyana to understand the point I am trying to make.If this trend continues the racial tension that existing in Guyana & Trinidad will be here in Barbados also.Indo-Guyanese do not like Black Guyanese.If they do not like Black Guyanese will they like Black Barbadians? We are transplanting a racist problem that existing in TRinidad & Guyana into Barbados.
Indian as a result of there selfish nature contribute to destruction of economies.They do not realy spend money.They horde money and as such affects economies.As a result of this action Government revenue suffers VATtaxes usually are not adequate enough to provide the essential services and maintain social services and infrastructure.That is one of the reason why Trinidad and Guyana two of the Caribbean richest states with an abundance of natural resources are lacking in development.Blame it on the selfish Indians that make up a significant portion of those populations.
Indo-Guyanese are bidding there time in Barbados.As soon as the Indians have the numbers and financial resources we Blacks in Barbados will be in for the same treatment our unfortunate brothers & sisters are enduring In Trinidad & Guayna in particular.
Black Barbadians wake up.
We must also recognise that Indians business people in Barbados who control some of the bigger businesses in Barbados recognise those Indo-Guyanese as there Kith & Kin.Measures are in place by those business people to allow them to remain to help build up the Indian polulation and that will spell trouble for us Black Barbadians.Case in point Royal Shop Affair.that is the first test.Bridgetown will look like Geargetown faily soon with the replacement of Black Barbadian workers with Indo-guyanese workers.
Black Barbados Beware!
RANDY BRIDGEMAN // March 7, 2008 at 3:21 PM
If Guyana had its act together, Indians or even Blacks would not be flooding little old Barbados. Guyana has the natural resources to easily be the breadbasket of the Caribbean.
For all of its independent life, Guyana has been mismanaged by both Africans and Indians. As a result, the vast interior with its potentially great wealth, has been largely neglected. While the two groups fuss, fight and kill each other, the infrastrucure-never sturdy to begin with- crumbles.
From my reading of Guyana’s history, only one person since independence in ‘66 possessed the ability to unite that fragmented country, but he was killed. His name? Walter Rodney. All the leaders since independence have engaged in race-centered politics to the detriment of that potentially great country.
What Guyana needs desperately in terms of leadership is a man, yes a man, who is first and foremost, Godly, then honest, decent, fair, intelligent, a servant of his nation, a man who puts his people before himself or his party. Someone who is able to unite the Guyanese people into one family. A true statesman. Such a man obviously must constantly exhibit Godly love. Does such a man exist in Guyana today? Your guess is as good as mine. For the sake of the Guyanese people, I pray one does indeed exist and emerges quite soon.
Until Guyana is fixed up, all their refugees should head to T & T. After all, if the Trinis are so nice and welcoming, wouldn’t that be the logical place to go? Also, the Trinis have much oil from which great revenues are derived. T & T is a better fit for Guyanese than is li’l, resourced-starved B’dos.
The Bible says that GOD appoints people to their lands. Put simply, the country in which you were born has been loaned to you until departure time (death). If you care to share it with a non-national, there’s no problem. But you should not be forced to share if that’s not your desire. Once you let in a foreigner, the Bible also says you must not mistreat them.
So the ultimate solution to Guyana’s refugee problem rests with the Guyanese people. In my view, Guyanese should stay at home, help to open up the interior, build new towns and cities and seek to provide a decent standard of living for everyone.
Their people who live overseas and who possess various talents and skills, ought to be encouraged to return to the land of their birth to assist in this national effort of construction and consolidation. This country needs many people with a pioneer spirit/attitude.
If the Guyanese people are able to unite and pull of the national endeavor previously mentioned led by a visionary President, their people wouldn’t have to put up with abuse in another man’s country.
I’m out. Blessings to all.
Diann // March 17, 2008 at 4:30 PM
I am not a racist or am I xenophobic. I am a proud barbadian looking to work and live the Bajan dream and I am appalled by these people who dismiss the concerns of workers in Barbados. Why is a bajan carpenter racist or xenophobic because he is looking for a fair compensation for a job done? Why cannot certain people accept that we in Barbados have some good workers? Why try to potray bajans as late lazy and lousy workers? Why is it wrong to say that bajans have to clean up ater bad work done by non nationals? There are not only indian workers here. I see black workers often that are not bajans. Why can I not get an assurance that the immigrant workers here are legal and that the country does not have too many living here and causing problems in the system. I am all for persons seeking opportunity but come on lets have a system.
Anonymous // March 17, 2008 at 4:58 PM
David/BU Family
Did you listen to Down to Brasstacks today?
This is what we have come to David,Norman Faria an immigrant in our country demanding that our radio station VOB cut off all callers who speak out against the influx and the impact of guyanese in Barbados.
I wonder when bajans will realise that Peter Wickham’s agenda runs counter to the vast majority of bajans,and they will never get any support from him on that issue.
It was so painful and humiliating to hear how bajan callers were treated by him.
It was clear that he thought that the caller from England was going to support him ,but seemed taken aback when he realised the UK caller was saying the same thing that the bloggers on BU have been saying.
That indians donot like and integrate with blacks – as evidenced in Britain and other places over the world.
We ain’t see nothing yet peoples.
I suggest every one who is concerned about the immigration problem and the DLP’s position on it,should call their M.P. and ask him or her what the government intend to do about these large illegal persons in our country.
Let them know how you feel,because from all appearances you soon might not be able to voice your opinions on the call in shows.
David // March 17, 2008 at 7:32 PM
No we did not hear the program today. We will try to catch the late show. Many people underestimated BU and BFP in the lead up to the last general election when we acted as a barometer for public opinion.
On this open door and illegal immigration business it will no different.
Adrian Hinds // March 17, 2008 at 7:57 PM
ha ha ha ha This Devi person like them suffering from an overdose of curry and dal. :D I have never dated anyone in America, I came to the US a single man, with a Bajan girl friend back in Bim, I went into the army and on my first leave, went straight back to Bim to marry the same BAJAN GIRL from my village. :D
Adrian Hinds // March 17, 2008 at 8:04 PM
Peter Wickham is clearly out of his depth on this immigration issue. He brings very little to the table other than the dishonest indelogy of liberal progressives. His anger and impatience with those who disagree with him is the standard attittudes of most liberals. Their dependence on studies, and statistics are usually easily undone by the reality of things around us. Be caution if you think that religion, particularly christianity makes harsh demands of it’s followers, liberal secularism of the kind that makes the Wickhams of this world “Gods” are much worst, and filled with dispointment. :D
Adrian Hinds // March 17, 2008 at 8:11 PM
Devi you have not responded to this, from a previous thread.
Adrian Hinds // March 7, 2008 at 4:49 pm
Bharat Devi: The lady came to Barbados as a pre-teen girl. She couldn’t have fashioned her cultural behaviours on her own, they were learnt from the adults around her in Guyana. On coming to Barbados and going to school here, is where she learnt that her previously learnt behaviour is not a good thing. It was not on account of meeting me. I am going to take it that you deliberately misunderstood what i was saying so that you could have a point to discuss.
I have given lots of thought to the visible racial divide in Guyana, and i have concluded that by the passage of time it has now become a culture of racial division, into it’s second generation. However it is not for me to ponder on it, I don’t live there and cannot be reasonably expected to provide insights into possible solutions. This is for the Guyana people, in particularly those who fear that the mixing of the races will dilute their identity and culture. It is a known fact that Afro males don’t have much hing-ups about inter- racial relationships, can the same be said about Indo-Guyanese men?
Negroman // March 18, 2008 at 5:45 PM
Peter Wickham is not a Barbadian but a Trinidadian.Therefore his views on Non nationals in Barbados is not surprising.We provided him with a decent standard of living and this is the thanks we are receiving for our generosity.
I believe Peter Wickham should be censor and the callers to Brass Tack on VOB should demand his removal from the program.It was indeed painfu as a black barbdian to listen to Peter Wickham insult and ridicule Barbadians for voicing a concern that is a serious problem to us.
The high influx of Indo-Guyanese with ther racist behavior is going to destroy the harmony,peace and tolerant that all Barbadians have come to accept.
Peter Wickham you are a researcher.I will like you to investigate and tell Barbados how many higly educated guyanese are benefiting from CSME initiative.How Many of the highly skilled Caribbean nationals are taking up the oppurtunities of CSME?
We are attracting the semi-skilled,unskilled and uneducated caribbean nationals especially the illeterate indo-guyanese.
Can Barbados develop with a high influx of non productive immigrants who have little or no education,little skill and generally are nuisances?Iwill answer NO
Finnaly Peter Wickham in your research I also want you to indentify any succesful and progressive countries where indians are the dominant race.I will tell you the is none .Indians destroy countries.Barbados is heading that road.
I hope other Barbadians will join me in my attempt to get you off the Brass Tack programm on VOB.Go and live in Guyana among those racist indo-guyanese and see if you will enjoy it
You joker.l
Anonymous // March 18, 2008 at 10:00 PM
Negroman
A correction.Peter wickham is barbadian.
Tonight I heard portions of the ‘tell it like it is’ programme and again bajans were treated to some of the same harsh dismissive behaviour when again they complained about the guyanese,although you get the sense that matthew farley was being devil’s advocate.
What is more frightening is the continued attitude of the producer who seems determine to stifle any dissenting views against guyanese.
David // March 18, 2008 at 10:12 PM
Vic Fernades has Guyanese blood?
The point which the moderators on the talk shows keep missing is there has been uncontrolled immigration practiced in Barbados. Nobody cam tell Barbadians how many illegal immigrants are in Barbados and how it is expected to impact our economy. more importantly nobody is planning at how the mix of ethnicity will affect the social dynamics.
Anonymous // March 18, 2008 at 10:17 PM
Yes he does David,and I suspect so does michael brown or he either has a guyanese woman or man.
I fear for my country and what this supression of bajans complaints against guyanese will eventually do to the citizens who feel strongly about the issue.
Diann // March 19, 2008 at 4:26 PM
I really don’t care who has Guyanese or indian or pig blood in them for that matter. I care that we cannot have an open airport seaport system. I am concerned that our services such as edcation health care could be affected by excess use. I am concerned that my boyfriend who is in construction cannot get the jobs that non nationals do. I am concerned that when one makes a statement like the last one that some who should know better says that bajans don’t want to work or bajans are not talented. I am concerned that by constantly ignoring the issue is causing resentment which can eventually lead to serious problems. I am concerned that as a Bajan I am not allowed to speak about things that bother me without someone saying I am being ignorant and xenophobic. I am concerned that criminals in Guyana can say that their people in Bim would let him know if his girfriend was here. I am concerned that the previous Government’s position was that the PM had Guyanese working at his house so the issue is a non issue. I am concerned that the present government seems nto be slow in addressing this problem. I don’t grudge a fella for following opportunity. I welcome legal law abiding non nationals but please someone tell me how many legal and illegal people can this island hold.
Negroman // March 19, 2008 at 5:02 PM
Peter Wickham has Trinidadian connections,however that is not a a major issue.I am concern with his alternative views on everything including homosexuality.Peter Wickham hogs the Brass Tack call in program and he wants to ram his views down the throat of callers,and I reiterate that he should be put off the programm.
Anonymous & David I am angry that we Bajans cannot express our views on issues confronting us. I believe the time has come where we must take this issue a step further.We must let our parlaimentarians know that we need a position on this new government view on this matter of illegal immigrants and our immmigration policy.This government was elected to serve the interest of we Barbadians.This is a burning issue that affecting many Barbadians.It appears that this government is going to take a similar role to the last administration took on this issue.Iam prepare not to allow that to happen.We demand a position on the issue and we need it now.
If this government is not prepare to deal with the issue we Barbadians will look for a government that will be prepare to have the courage and guts to deal with this vexing issue.Even if we must vote for a third political party.
This issue cannot be allow to continue with the people in authority not having the decency to respond to the numerous demands for the numbers of non-nationals living & working in Barbados be known.If we do not get answers I believe protest marches and such like should be organise to let the authorities know that we Barbadians need action to be taken on this issue.
No name // March 19, 2008 at 8:21 PM
There was a woman on brasstacks today claiming she had statistics on migrants to our island. The woman said she received the stats from immigration. So why isnt this info released publicly? This woman could be a liar you never know. She said there were more St.Vincent and Trinidad migrants here than Guyanese. I dont believe that. The woman had an accent but I could not identify it but she sounded white and very supportive of uncontrolled immigration. I see the St.Lucia prime minister also concerned about influx of illegal Guyanese.
Anonymous // March 20, 2008 at 5:44 AM
No Name
I support you on your comment.
Did you notice that this woman who indeed sounded white with an accent wa able to call the evening before and then the next day saying the same thing and she got a long,long time to do it.
Notice how Mike Brown the producer allowed her to repeat this claim about statistics which even to the uninformed doesnot add up with what we see on the ground.
Yet the producer didnot cut her off and tell her she said the same thing the night before as he accuses other bajan callers.
Neither did David Ellis challenge her about these statistics as to when she got these figures and from whom in the immigration dept.If this was a humble,uneducated bajan David Ellis would have been trying to embarass them and question them like if they were at court.
This woman spoke about doing some film ablout migrants yet she was not asked to identify who she was or who she is working for.
I have long since said that it is in the interest of certain whites in Barbados to keep these indian guyanese here.
Also this woman was also able to give hearsay evidence about some indo guyanese woman travelling on a bus and her experience and someone saying to another guyanese I could get $75.00 on your head.We don’t even know if this is true,yet it was allowed to go out on the airwaves by mike brown the producer and the 2 moderators who were on the evening before and then on the midday show.
At no time did Mike Brown the producer cut her off or did the moderator challenge her statements.All because she sounded like someone important,and someone who knows what she is saying.
I am extremely troubled by Mike Brown the person who is the producer for these shows since he is the one who controls that cut off button and more and more I seeming him taking a very worrying position and cutting off bajan callers who complain about the guyanese or blanking off most of what he is saying.
I suppose since Vic Fernandes is of guyanese descent he might not bee too concerned about that approach.
I wonder.
It seems as though however that the callers cannot publicly complain against mike brown since they are told he is not on the air and cannot respond.
If this is the way VOB is behaving with just a radio license,it gives me concern as to how they will respond with a T.V. license.
As to the suggestions about complaining to the DLP politicians,I suggest that persons call the talk show and publicly and strongly demand that the DLP start getting these illegals out of the country now.
Then they should also call the constituency office of their M.P. and complain not to the secretary but to the M.P. himself.
Eventually Thompson will get the message about bajans concern.
It blows the mind that someone like norman faris who is a guest in this country could be allowed to demand that bajans shut up and not make their feelings known about guyanese,and he is being encouraged by the likes of peter wickham,mike brown and david ellis and others in society with vested interest or who like to promote this political correctness nonesense.
Bajans stand up and be demanded to be heard in your country and if you are so upset as you say – then don’t hire illegal guyanese or rent them your apartments or houses – YOU ARE YOUR OWN WORSE ENEMY.
David // March 20, 2008 at 6:48 AM
We are disappointed in our friends who are involved in these talk shows who seem to be cowering in the face of being branded xenophobic. There is no doubt to people on the ground that we have a problem of illegal immigration because of our open/inefficient border control system.
This has been glaring for awhile an examples can be seen from time to time in our court system when immigrants, especially Guyanese repeatedly appear in our court system despite being deported or declared persona non grata.
The position which some moderators have taken is to reduce a serious matter to an academic discussion. Do they appreciate that even in developed countries of the world the issue of immigration policy is occupying the authorities? Barbadians continue to be fooled by the argument by the Ellis, Wickhams et al of this world who try to intimidate Barbadians into silence by using an argument about perception of how other islands feel about Barbadians. But here is the laughable part of their argument, they too are relying on ear say to support their positions. We have not heard of one instance where they have referred to a study yet they dismiss Barbadians for making their feelings known which is based on observation just like they are making.
Negroman // March 20, 2008 at 10:54 AM
Mr Johnson Why did you used abusive language to get your point over.It shows the kind of person you are.
Mr Johnson if guyanese are all this hard working and have all these good work ethics why did not the guyanese stayed in their country which is the richest in the Caribbean and work hard to develop it.Why are guyanese political & economic refugees making other people countries miserable.Answer that question.
Mr johnson please alo answer this question Who work hard to develop Barbados with limited resources Isn’t it Barbadians both black & white.Who develop our public service Isn’t it Barbadians.
Mr Johnson I think Barbadiians like you are contributing to destruction of Barbados.If you refer to Barbadians as lazy You also mean your family including your mother,father,sisters,brothers and children.Think about it.Ithink you are misguided
Ibelieve you are a white Barbadian and not a black Barbadian
Anonymous // March 20, 2008 at 11:52 AM
David/Barbados Underground
We the readers of BU have recently been assaulted by a particular blogger using different names who use the most foul language in his post (as seen above – titled- Mr Johnson) and in his post name – (see yesterdays post)
Could we please have some ground rules which like most blogs worldwide reject and delete foul language or abusive language.
I am therefore asking that the post under Mr Johnson be removed .
Guyanese have been coming on here on this bajan blog and seeking to be abusive to barbadians e.g. devi bharat,johnson ,passing south and others.
Together with the semi abuse by some moderators on Vob – the guyanese seem to think that bajans are timid cowards and they can treat them as the like in their own homeland.
While our blogs allow free speech we must not be abused by those who seek to join the BU family.
Anon // March 20, 2008 at 12:43 PM
I have long since said that it is in the interest of certain whites in Barbados to keep these indian guyanese here.
…………………………………………………………………..
I could not agree more. Down the road I expect a deliberate alliance between bajan whites and indo guyanese. I dont think its solid yet but it has started.Watch and see. Us blacks have to be vigilant. We slaved, died and bled to build this country.
Whenever you hear words lazy blacks ninety nine point nine percent of times its whites speaking. These are same whites who spend most their time at liesure activities while raking in big bucks generated by guess who….lazy blacks. Racism is alive and kicking on the rock.
Anonymous // March 20, 2008 at 1:09 PM
David
Mr johnson abusive post is still up.
Diann // March 20, 2008 at 1:22 PM
Mr Johnson
I am sorry for your experiences with building your houses and sorry for your tone regarding bajan workers. You have your experiences and others have theirs. My experience has been that the Guyanese have come here to work but a lot of them are doing bad work. This is not a dream I am talking about I have seen the work they do. I am not saying that some cannot work but how dare you label Bajans as LAZY. I am tired of these stupid comments. Are you telling me that you could not find one bajan worker who was worthy to build your house? Are all bajan workers too expensive? We want to make excuses to justify not giving contracts to bajans. Come on Mr Johnson. Charity begins at home. How can we extend the hand of charity to non nationals and treat our own with such disdain? Make all the excuses you like but when I am building or anyone connected to me is building I will campaign for the Bajan workers. I pray your houses are well build.
JC // March 20, 2008 at 3:56 PM
I agree with negro vehemently; I do not like the idea that these guyanese think that we owe them something; and they have a write to be here telling me about CSME. For instance, a guyanese today in the traffic allowed a very good friend of mine to know that he HATE BAJANS. You know how that made me feel. I was hurt and then MAD IS HELL! How dare you guyanese come around here and insult me after Owen arthur let u in. If this government dont do something about this SERIOUS ISSUE, they will have serious problems. You watch and see. The tension has started to build already mark my words Barbados wake up wake up. I am up and I am smelling the coffee. we need to get these people out of here befor sudden destruction is upon our way of life thoughts beliefs and so on. come on bajans WAKE UP
Anonymous // March 20, 2008 at 4:51 PM
David
Thanks for removing the post.
David and others you see what JC above just said?
JC said a guyanese today told him he hates bajans.I have heard personally such remarks and similar things from other bajans.
It is important that THIS GOVERNMENT DOESNOT GIVE THEM AND THEIR CHILDREN BORN HERE CITIZENSHIP – ELSE WE WILL NOT BE ABLE TO SEND THEM OUT.
David Thompson needs to send this directive immediately to the immigration department.
I have been saying over and over again,because its plain for me to see – that Barbados must be the only country which will let guyanese to come in their thousands here,commit crimes,prostitute themselves,trick people with bad work and generally make a nuisance of themselves and then tell Bajans like Norman Faria does all the time that they – the bajans – should shut up and stop complaining about guyanese.
This is where our media – radio stations,newspapers,T.V. are doing us a disservice.
Only last week Barbados was shamed in the halls of the US Senate when barbados was listed as a country that engages in human trafficking for prostitutes – and the people are coming from Guyana.
That report also told us that former goverment high officials (ie BLP POLITICIANS) were identified in their investigation.
Before the dregs of the guyanese society were coming here in their thousands,the St Lucian,Vincentians,Dominicans were here selling their fruits,cutting canes,building houses and living in harmony with barbadians.
Barbados then did not get its reputation stained with America labelling us as human trafficking in prostitutes.
And now david ellis,peter wickham,and some of these callers telling bajans to shut up and don’t make strife?
Bajans need to start speaking out on the radio,to their government MPs and every where possible.
Wicked,wicked what owen arthur has brought barbados to.I hope when he sees a guyanese back lash that he is satisfied.
Anonymous // March 20, 2008 at 7:30 PM
OH MY GOODNESS WHAT IS GOING ON AT VOB?
This evening 2 callers called to challenge that white woman with the accent who produced those bogus immigration figures tuesday evening and the wednesday mid-day shows and was not challenged by the moderators david ellis and matthew farley – and the producer mike brown could be heard shouting in the background and promptly cut off the caller.
Another caller also called to agree with the first caller about the points he was making about that female caller – and he just got 2 words in – and was promptly called off.
IS MICHAEL BROWN THE PRODUCER OF THESE VOB CALL – IN SHOWS A DICTATOR?
Why is he not allowing barbadians to challenge what this guyanese sounding caller said?
Barbadians should bombard the call in programme and the offices of Vic Fernandes and David Ellis and speak out against what is happening to callers.
WHO IS THIS MIKE BROWN AND WHAT HOLD DOES HE HAVE ON THESE BIG – UP AT VOB OR PERHAPS WITHIN THE BLP PARTY THAT HE IS BEING GIVEN SO MUCH POWER?
Are bajans now not free to express their fears and concerns against guyanese?
LORD HELP US!
confusion // March 21, 2008 at 12:43 AM
Amala Devi // i am a mix Guyanese race what do you have to say about that, girl you are a racist. Bajans not all Guyanese are racist but most of the indo guyanese bewared of them keep them out of the country you people have to protect what belongs to you i am mix and the don’t like me who is also guyanese like them ,so what about you people they don’t know they are not living good with black in their own country what would they do to yoy people Amala Devi get a life
Bush Tea // March 21, 2008 at 8:56 AM
It is probably already too late for us to save the situation in Barbados.
When we can have people like Peter Wickham given leeway to promote his promiscuous and anti-Barbados agenda on the airways -week after week….
When, as it now appears, the new DLP government is being led by the civil servants and other ’string pullers’ to follow the same paths as the previous lot of so called leaders – then we know that we are in trouble.
The influx of destitute Guyanese is so obviously a major threat to the local status quo that only a warped idiot like Wickham (or Arthur) could seek to justify such a scheme.
My man ‘Lowdown’ Hoad dealt with this matter in true Hoad style this week – so I will not repeat.
Does the DLP understand the need for DRASTIC CHANGE?!?
What change what?!?
…. Greenland, Kensington, ABC Highway. … all these suggest not….
May God help Bim…
Negroman // March 25, 2008 at 5:15 PM
Annonymous It is sad that that Barbados has reach this stage.Guyanese are dictating what can be said and what cannot be said on our radio stations.I think we as black Barbadians should flee this country and look for residence some other part of the world maybe Africa.
I believe repatriation is an issue we must seriously look at.This country is being taken from us by the Indo-Guyanese,chinese & europeans.I have a premonition (Indo-Guyanese don’t know the meaning of that word) that this country will be destroy by the Indo-Guyanese the same way they are destroying their own country.I don’t want to get caught in the destruction,therefore I am giving serious consideration of relocating myself & family to Africa where I will see people who look like me and I will be able to fit in.
In barbados today I feel like a stranger in my own country with no way to go to express my opinion on issues affecting me.I am a sad and depressed black Barbadian today.I see little hope in this island for black people.
trini // April 4, 2008 at 2:06 PM
when i read ur blog i just laught u bajans need to your head examin i always say barbados does not belong to you so look @ the facts the guyanese are here and u making more noise but trust me when i say not the guyanese will put you out of barbados is the white people when your prime minister say he doing changes he mean bring in the whites and chinese open up your eyes i know the whites,chinese,indian and colour people will live good so blacks have no place sorry that is the facts,oh one more thing is not just the guyanese don’t like bajan we trini hate bajans so please stay out of our country i beg you .
CARICOM National // April 20, 2008 at 5:45 PM
You poor bajans
I really sorry for you
I can understand your feelings when it comes to foreigners invading your country and I do symphatise espicially when they cause trouble in your society
I recommend you do put in place stronger immigation laws to protect your society from crime and degrading behaviour
not all Guyanese are bad but in every society there are those that cause troule and they have no love for country nor humanity…they run away to other places and cause trouble there as well and barbados is getting a raw deal from that.
Comments and personal attack on Faria are refective of your poor intellectual capacity and shows that the slavery mentallity and inferiority complex is still alive in your blood
The day you stop thinking racial and stop feeling that someone owes you something as africans is the day you will stop crying about marginalisation and actually start working to achieve
barbados is a sorry country that is illustioned by us dollars from tourists…a small dot in the atlantic that has nothing constructive to offer!!
You people need to meditate and seek a higher understanding or you wont exist for much longer….one tsunami and you gon beg Guyana for food!!!
stop kissing white mans ass you discriminating, racist assholes and learn to free your mind and stop hating indian people cuz they work so hard!!
progress breeds enemies and hardwork breeds jealousy from those who are lasy
CARICOM National // April 20, 2008 at 5:58 PM
Negroman
them people in africa got enough problems
you think they want you there
have you applied to any african country for immigration?
you are a pawn of mind control from persons of intellectual superiority control becasue they know your dotish way of thinking and that you are weak to judge fairlly and sensibly you get worked up easily and get personal it make you weak very weak
I wont feel nice if a load of chinese enetered my country them people does take over!! It would be damn uncomfortable if foreign nationals took control but if they same nationality with me then race dont matter!!!
I understand your worry…but you gon run away to africa so they would chase you back?
them tribal people gon kill you before you come out the airport!!!
dont be racist and feel threated by the indo-Guyanese…. thats weak …more like idiot-batty man weak!!!
put immigration control in order I would hate to see a beautiful place like barbados be destroyed by inferior minds and racist mentality
they seek to destroy guyana in the same way by writing stupid books and pushing propaganda
CARICOM National // April 20, 2008 at 6:09 PM
what about black Guyanese??? is only a problem with Indo-guyanese?? are the indo-guyanese really the criminal one?? or the blacks??
does it make a difference???
there is no bajan national a criminal in barbados??
weak observations by weak people
come on bajans stop being racist pussies
if is guyanese the is guyanese not indo or black!!
stronger immigration ploicies need barbados protect your country from people that will cause destruction that originate from anywhere and not just Guyana
Straight talk // April 20, 2008 at 7:04 PM
Amen to that wake up, shake your head and come again call, Caricom National.
The truth will eventually dawn, even on this benighted blog.
CARICOM National // April 21, 2008 at 4:11 PM
Beware, Guyana isrising as a strong nation, no one can stop that
Guyanese are hard working and can push the limits of performance in due time there mindset will be freed from mental slavery and prgraming from racist ones like Kean Gibson
The process takes hard work and committment but we all know what Guyana can do. Food is getting scare and the Caribbean will get hungry.
There must be a reson for Guyanese to be getting work in Barbados…..maybe Barbados needs them just as the USA needs Mexicans
Dont hate prosperity and dont let evil ones like Kean Gibson program your minds…they trying that shit in Guyana and the Afro-Guyanese are rejecting it
Guyana is strong and cannot break
Most Afro and Indo-Guyanese seek to live in harmony
Only when foolish politicans open their mouth and persons from exteme sections of society raise their heads then things get ugly
They influence the man in the street and use him as pawn in their schemes to get power and control…an evil plan indeed….poor Bajans and their radio station falling into the same trap!!
Imagine a Bajan going to India for medical training and being ill-treated cuz he black…that nonsense dont happen there….to indians there our differences dont matter.
remeber South Africa…that is where Gandhi started his struggle
they only have two races on the earth and they are not defined by colour but by attitude
those who are racist and those who are not!!
Hammer // May 1, 2008 at 10:09 AM
Lat me tell you RACIST bajans something. Barbados is a tiny F****ing island not a country of any importance. I dont live there. I have never visited there. I never will.
Most of you sound like a pack of dumb ass who belive Barbados is heaven. That’s because most of you dumb asses never had the sense to travel anywhere else. One day a Tsunami will make your little F****ing insignificant island disappear and you will come with begging bowls to India. Mark my words.
I have no apologies!
Negroman // May 2, 2008 at 5:12 PM
Indians came to barbados with begging bowls.india cannot even feed itself.Hammer you are a sorry pitiful stupid ass fool.You are envious of the standard of living the vast majority of blacks in Barbados enjoy.Nice cars ,nice homes ,good infrastructure,access to everything and many Barbadisns could travel all over the world practically hassle free. because no one sees us as economic and politicl refugees fleeing our country for a better life.Those things have you green with envy and very bitter that black people you all consider inferior to you have a standard of living that many of your people could only dream of and will never get.Take that.We did not destroy our country like how you all did in and still doing in Guyana .We took the little we have and maximise it. We build on our asset and we have reap the rewards.You all stinking smelly uneducated indians build on the resources that are available to you all.Do not envy us.we will not allow you all to destroy Barbados the same way you all destroy your all country.we will chase you all out.Indians from Guyana have nothing to offer Barbados we do not need masons ,carpepenter and labourers.we have enough graduating from the polytechnic yearly.You all are a pitiful lot.
Indo-Guyanese // May 5, 2008 at 11:36 AM
Yes, that’s all u will ever have – polytechnic education. U say u have everything in Barbados. Actually, you can’t even feed yourself so what nonesense you talking.
You probably have just a polytechnic education, the highest most Bajan racists can aim for. Pathetic. Compare that with the rest of the world and see where you are.
I met and helped mnay Bajan apple pickers when I lived in Canada. they were nice people, not racist like you. Racist like you give all Bajans a bad name. You should get an education and be of some value to your nation.
U boast about nice cars and houses in Barbados. You must be joking. I am certain you have never left your little isalnd to see anything else.
The only kind of music you know is jump-up. The only food you know is kellogs corn flakes and white bread. The only places you know are the USA, Canada, England an dthe caribbean. The only people you can live among are Bajans. The only books you read are Caribbean readers. !! How small your world is. I pity you and your pathetic existence. I pity you fighting for a few grains of sand in the sea.
And worst of all I pity you for even think about comparing your little dot in the sea with India. But I understand – all u have is a polytechnic education.
Yardbroom // May 5, 2008 at 12:05 PM
Indo-Guyanese
If Barbados is as you have outlined, why should you be so “annoyed,” if there are immigration controls here.
You should be delighted, as those immigrants are being saved from a “pathetic existence”… your words not mine.
Anonymous // May 5, 2008 at 12:09 PM
Hear,hear Yardbroom!
CARICOM National // May 5, 2008 at 12:17 PM
Woe!!!
Poor Bajans
Stop putting down the Indian people and stop fooling yourselves racist bajans
remeber that you depend on the rest of the world for your existence…the foreign exchange and the food
you cant eat car and house
worse yet you compare yourself to the might if India…a rising superpower which by the way does feed itself and other places and is of great help to the people in African.
You must educate yourself more negroman
how come none of you fassyholes never cry out about the suffering of the people in africa…you ignore the plight of your own brothers an sisters in you mother land!!!
You jump up too foolishness in barbados while it is soldiers from India and Pakistan that go to africa to save the lives of their african brothers and sisters
as long as you racist people will continue to suck white man batty you mouth will have a lot of shit in it to say,espicially about people of progress
indian people dont rob and kill people on the road and they dont destroy people homes and families they are not the majority in the jails
who are??
take a look at youself brother man (negroman)….rise up from mental slavery and be free!!
CARICOM National // May 5, 2008 at 12:21 PM
Yardbroom
barbados has a right to defend itself
and a right to strict immigration control but you should not base it on racism
barbados has to be protected for the good of all bajans
it belongs to bajans and they have a right for their country and their well being
stop wasting energy on racist thoughts and implement better immigration policies!!
Anonymous // May 5, 2008 at 12:46 PM
David
As a part of the Barbados Underground family,I am seeking your intervention in this developing situation where persons seemingly of indian descent have decided to come on this site with the foulest of language e.g one using the name ‘K YUH C’ and others such as those above and to seek to behave in a most despicable behaviour on this blog.
While in the past bloggers have come on and put their position for and against the high number on immigrants and in particular indian migrants into Barbados,these new posts who using the handles;hammer,KYC,indo guyanese,caricom national etc – and who I suspect are one and the same – are using the free speech on this blog to be downright vile and despicable.
If bloggers feel that indians are racists,if they agree with Dr Kean Gibson earlier thesis,if they point to societies where there are large indian population and where these indians are shown to be racist against the local african population – then they are free to raise those arguments and to have these arguments countered with other examples.
But recently these foul mouthed self described indian commentators have taken to calling we bajans – a majority african-descent population – as being african asses,and sucking white men batty,and all the other horrible slime.
Lest I am labouring under a misapprehension,your mission on this blog is to facilitate discussion on issues affecting barbadians in their country and to give voice to the voiceless for those who are unable to raise issues in the main stream media or to have these journalists themselves raise these concerns that we have and feel are being ignored.
At no time should we be assaulted with the on going filth by these indian slime balls.
Freedom of speech doesnot equate speech without some restraint and speech filled with vile utterances.
From time to time as the adminstator of this blog you will need to excecise your authority to ensure that the high standards which you seek to promote are indeed maintained.
Commentators should be free to disagree with each other but should do some with passion – yes- but also with some measure of respect.
If they think persons of african descent are racists,clannish, whatever – then say so,give your examples why – and be prepared to challenged on it – but please,please,please David put a stop to this descent into a pit of filth which I suspect is the intention of commentators like Indo guyanese ,caricom national and others of their ilk.
Although I know you hate to intervene and engage in censoring,I think it may be time to ban comments such as those above.
Ian Walcott // May 5, 2008 at 12:57 PM
This kind of behavior is not to be tolerated in a civilized society…PLEASE CENSOR ALL FORMS OF BIGOTRY…and maintain civil and respectful and enlightening debate…PLEASE…
Anonymous // May 5, 2008 at 3:57 PM
BU
Awaiting your response on the above.
Thank You.
David // May 5, 2008 at 6:16 PM
Anonymous et al we believe that there is merit in your observations. You are correct that we are reluctant to edit comments or ban anyone but…
We will give Indo-Guyanese, hammer and the others names which are all one to express themselves without being offensive.
CARICOM National // May 6, 2008 at 9:19 AM
Kudos to your observations and recommendationson the bad words of my contributions but I ask you to ask yourselves one question:
Which is worse, foul language or inciting racism?
Shouldn’t racist remarks be censored also?
Eeryone knows that racism does not do anyone any good. By the way I am not affiliated to the other commentators. I was researching some work and I happened to stumble on your racist blog. I was appalled
To clear the air on me being a racist let me educate you all. I grew up in the ghetto….no not the ghetto that you glamourise in your music but the real realm of poverty and suffering…i was fortunate to be better off than my neighbours and I was able to access a good education. I never saw the difference of race until I reachedigh school and most of my friends re africans, I had african girlfriends and my best friend is an african and is the only person i trust with my life.
Most of all I was educated by Africans from nursery to post graduate level. My best and most important teachers were all Africans. These are exemplory people that had an almost devine presence in my life. My best artistes are Africans: Tupac, Bounty Killa, Babyface, Krosfyah
I have visited barbados many times and I have met the nicest and most well behaved people there. When bajans come to Guyana we have a great time but I hate to see you intellectual hypocrites incite hatered and damage the image of your good countrymen
I understand how you feel about immigrants and any Guyanese would not like the same for his/her Guyana. as I have said before barbados needs a better immigration policy and not racism
I hate all racist wheter african or indian and I know that there are indians that don’t treat africans nicely I bun them also. I must inform you that the racist african here in Guyana kill by mass murder many Indians and their childeren and also kill africans. The intelligent ones seek to control the minds of the african youth into becoming criminals such as these…why do you seek to destroy your own people??
As an Indo-Guyanese I will always stand up against the hypocrites that seek to contaminate the mind of the african youth. The time for your mind control is over…wheter you call yourself a doctor, wheter you write a book or wheter you incite racism on a blog such as this…YOU WILL NOT SUCCEED
The youths can think for themselves now and may Jah protect them. Gone are the days of your hypocrisy.
Your argument on immigration is more racist than nationalist. You are afraid that in the next 50 years the colour of barbados changes. Well iI tell you by that time it wont matter!!!
CARICOM National // May 6, 2008 at 9:22 AM
I recommend that comments from now onwards be constructive with no offensive language nor racist remarks.
Negroman // May 6, 2008 at 12:16 PM
Caricom National
I am an educated black Barbadian I am no uneducated Barbadian. I travel frequently to countries all over the world.I know world affairs and the myriad of issues and problems affecting many countries in the world.I recognise India as emerging world power.However,I also recognise that there is abject poverty in india and serious social problems in the country with the caste system that is in place.Caricom National do not refer to me as unenlightened, uneducated black Barbadian who only role suck up to white people.
Caricom National I never and will never try to compare Barbados with a nation like India.It will be ludicrous of me to do that.
I will admit I have a dislike for Indians and I will not hide that feeling.I mentioned earlier in the blogs that I think Indians are clannish,selffish and ultimately destroy societies where the Indians are the dominant race.Trinidad & Guyana are tow cases in point.Caricom National you have not answer my earlier queries that are if Indo-Guyanese are so hard working and have good work ethics why not use those attributes to develop their homeland and make life better for themselves,their families and their country as a whole.Why flee their homeland.Caricom National I also ask you to name one peaceful progressive Indian country.You have not name any.I wonder why.
I have no doubt that they are some nice decent Indo-Guyanese. I have come across some in Barbados & on my travels to Guyana.However,that will not cloud my my judgement and feeling of Indo-Guyanese .I know the history of Indo-Guyanese treatment of blacks in Guyana.I have many black friends who talked about their experiences at the hands of Indo-Guyanese.
Caricom National you have not challenge any of the findings In Dr Kean Gibson book of the Guyana situation but only want to label her as a racist.Why is it that anyone who comes to defence of black people is always label a racist.It was done during slavery ,in the civil rights movement in North American and you are doing now. We understand the tactic but it is not going to stop us from our mission of defending black people.
Finally,Africa problems are the concerns of all black people in the world.We understand who created the problems and the token gestures by some of your states to help Africa are being view and accepted in the manners you all giving it.The hand outs and tokenism are not enough.
Africa will a super power soon.
CARICOM National // May 6, 2008 at 1:39 PM
Negroman
Your comments are well taken and I do understand your point
Firstly, I dont think that you are uneducated nor are you inferior. It must be the inferiority complex that you are suffering from that may have made you feel that way.
You see my friend I have no problems with Gibsons work. I am not bothered by people undertaking such studies to find the root of problems that we would be unwilling to face. This is how progress is made. I do find many Indo-Guyanese racist against my Afro-Guyanese brothers…it disturbed me for a while then I realised its the ones who fall prey to evilous intellectuals commit these atroscities
Gibson is one of such intellectuals her study has a good title but her findings are clearly biased and are driven by ulterior political motives. There is no academic weight to her paper rather she is using the academic stage to peddle ignorance…that is why her work is not being accepted.
Your observations about India is true, although they seem to be prospering the money is not trickling down to the poor. this must change and I think education is the key.
I do expect people to dislike others even ass how you dislike indians and indians dislike blacks but I tell you this is not the way. I know how some Indians behave clannish, I have seen that, sometimes I wonder if that is why I have so much African friends and I am more comfortable mixing with blacks.
For you to conclude that all Indians are clannish and selfish is a poor relection of you intellect which from you writing is know is not poor. It is this same stereotype that works the other way:
Indians percieve (the special word!) africans to be robbers, looters and murderers but I know from my background and experience that this is not true
You are doing the same. may be if you had a more diverse background you might have thought different
Indians are hardworking and so is everyone else and they are here working hard to build Guyana but you see for many reasons such as limited opprtunities, poor pay and dislike for the government ( yes not all indians like the PPP and there are many indians in the PNC), the threat of crime and instablity Guyanese leave insearch of a better life in places where they feel there contributions will be better rewarded
Such phenomenon is true of any other race or nationality. That is how America was built. As a young qualified Guyanese I feel like leaving also espicially with the political turmoil that Guyana faces. I would have to scarifice a peaceful and properous life and stay in Guyana to transform the mentallity of my countrymen.
The treatment of black by indo-guyanese and the treatment of Indo guyanese by blacks (espicially under the burnham era) are both true it is of a different cause and not that of hinduism or what we have in our hearts (gibson). It is all about politics…and i feel sorry when smart persons like you fall prey to political mind control and hear say
Do you have any Indian friends that talk about the suffering at the hands of afro-guyanese? Have you seen the pictures from the massacres? It is all political. Fineman Rawlings was once a porter working with a company and he somehow got exposed to persons that are able to control his thinking, persons such as gibson i suppose who chose to embrace violence and hatered
You need to see the who picture and not be myopic in you conclusions. step back and look again you will see that the tension is the work of the european mastermind. It is all related to politics and your comments that incite hatered will bring a smile to the controllers face…that is what they want you to do…they dont care if you destroy yourself in the process. Defend black people, I am an Indo-Guyanese it is my heart’s wish to see my African brothers and sisters progress and I will defend black people and indian people but i will never take the stance of a racist and hypocrite
All Guyana’s problems are linked to politics, drugs and the quest for power. The weapons are guns, racism and intectual mind control.
I beg you not to fall prey, else beautiful Barbados will cry.
As for Africa, many of my relatives have been there and they have contributed to many sectors. Africa has been robbed and this was done easily with the african people falling prey to the same tactics that you are exposed to.
As a person of high intellect you should facilitate knowledge transfer and the use to scientific thinking. Dont fall prey to hear say but read and research full then you will be able to see the big picture in which you are being used as a pawn.
Negroman // May 13, 2008 at 5:07 PM
Caricom Nationa we are approaching this issue in a more mature manner I respect your views.I will like to believe what you are saying about your respect ,admiration and willingness to assist Afro -Guyanese.l will like to see Guyana and the Caribbean where all the ethnic groups that make up this region co-exist together. I believe that a greater effort is needed by all concern to accept each of us as a beautiful creation from our spiritual father.However,this is wishful thinking and we must face reality.This is a racist world and the black race is at the receiving end from all the other races.There is no other ethnic group that respect or love the black race.That is a fact that cannot be denied by anyone.The whites,The Indians,The Chinese & all the other ethnic groups do not like us blacks.Therefore we must get up and defend ourselves and help ourselves and strenghten our selves.We cannot defend on handouts and aid from other people.We must get up and help ourselves.That is what we blacks in Barbados has done for ourselves.We blacks in Barbados are living a relatively comfortable life through the sweat ,tears and blood of our past generations.We are fearful these gains might be taken from us if we dot control the influx of immmigrants flooding our country.Black Barbadians are concern about the Indo-guyanese,and we are fearful of the large influx of chinese also.The consequences are going to much for us to deal with.I think it is unfair that the parents,Grand parents & Great Grand parents worked so hard to developed Barbados to point it is at today for us to hand it over to non-Barbadians to live sweet life at the expense of us.
Caricom National,I believe Barbadians are not neccessarily racist,but the above concernes I have mentioned are what are the driving force behind Barbadians attitude toward the Influx of your people into Barbados. Caricom Nationals we are observing and know too well how blacks are being treated in Guyana & Trinidad by Indo-Guyanese & Indo-Trinidaians
CARICOM National // May 13, 2008 at 6:24 PM
Negroman
I must say that it is pleasant to see good writing on this blog with respect to yours
Wishful thinking it may be but it is not impossible. I have a quote that I always say to myself: “Don’t become what you dispise”
It is a very hard saying to live up to. Dont become a racist if you dispise racism. Dont become a murderer if you dispise murders and dont become an abuser if you dispise abuse.
You see its the things that we dislike that we use to defend ourselves thereby becoming them. This is the plot of satan and this is how he corrupts mankind only the strong ones can get past this ploy.
I agree that the black race is at the recieving end most of the time but others are too. I can tell you that Indo Guyanese are mistreated by blacks also and so the cyle goes on (the real cycle of racial oppression!)
Have you ever asked yourself why others dont like blacks?
I have heard the answer from a blackmans mouth: “Blacks are streotyped”
But is it right to steoeotype a person due to his colour or culture?
The point is that stereotypes dont just come from imagination, it comes from trends and past occurences. Other races stereotype black because the majority of criminal activity and degrading behaviour in society are done by blacks. Some facts to recoginse:
Blacks are the first to loot and rob
Almost every person of another race has been bullied or robbed by a black person in Guyana
Blacks are the majority in the jails
In the poorest communities the majority are blacks
Keep the following in mind:
Blacks are the first to cite race as an excuse for any short comings
Blacks feel the world owes them something due to their past sufferings
The culture of black people has been destroyed
Though the ideas above are existent I do not subscribe to them. Blacks are neither inferior nor are they lesser than me. the most bright intelligent and capable persons I know are blacks.
What I feel need to be done is an overhaul and renessaince of black society, the removing of mental barriers from the blackmans mind. Such a task I may not be able to do for I am an Indian hence I cannot be a black leader. Yes LEADERSHIP is the answer, leadership with zeal, honesty and concern is needed. until we see such black leaders being produced then I dont think things will get better.
Stop being the victim and stop feeling that you have to fight other people…other races can play victim and fight too…then where would that lead us?
That is why I agree when you say that blacks must get up and help yourselves and I agree that you have every right to defend and preserve what you have.
Although I have never heard of Barbados being declared a nation of only blacks I do understand how you feel about the influx of foreigners. I always tell me father that it is not right for me to leave my country and go to someone elses and enjoy their benefits…but then I wondered why was Canada , Singapore, UAE , Trinidad and Barbados taking so much of our people away…it is because these people have something that those countries need to delevop….Human resource…
So I say to you, dont take a racist stand. it will do you no good, others suffer from blacks and we no complain we get up and keep building.
Take a nationalist stand and stand up and fight for barbados, it is your country and you have the right to it
You must not be threatened by indians and chinese or any other nationality/race on your homeland Implement stricter controls to preserve your lifestyle and culture that you have worked hard to build
I was in barbados a few months ago intransit to the UK and immigration took my Guyana passport for a while although I was worried that they may not return it I undertood that they have a problem with Guyanese that go and behave bad. They had my document for about a half hour of which i spent on the popualr Guyanesebence reading a book. I then asked the authorites for my passport and they let me on my way. I thought they must have entered my info into a database or something….all of which i had no problem. I rest of my stay at the airport was quite pleasant but i see the look on some bajans faces due to my race…but i dont care i show then a nice side and not let them judge me on my skin colour..and i know that they got to adapt to other people cuz with the rapids rate of globalisation I say racist mentallity would be a grave misfortune to those who encourage it in the future
Straight talk // May 13, 2008 at 7:23 PM
Love your sentiments, Caricom National.
Let us extend a welcome to all broad minded, thinking people to the wide world of diversity, strangeness and cultural challenge that our small space offers.
This is not a dress rehearsal….. this is your one and only life live it
Negroman // May 14, 2008 at 5:30 PM
Caricom National You were the subject of stereotyping when you were in transit in Barbados .The immmigration authorities look at you and decided that you might be another indo-guyanese trying something underhand How you felt?
Caricom National why are so saying such disparinging comments about black people.I take offence to saying that black make up the majority in jail and committ the most crime.Your analysis is bias and unreasonable.In essence you are saying that black people are inherently criminals. We are not born and I believe no human being is born with criminal intentions.Social and other factors are deteminants in many of the criminals in the world today.The majority of serial killers in America and Europe is of the white race.Indians hacked or burned their wives,children and in laws to death when ther are family disputes.How many black serial killers and murderes who destroy their families in disputes.Caricom National take these facts into consideration when dealing with the issue of criminality.
As I mentioned the black race is at the bottom and hence little oppurtunities are available to us.As a result some of us see life as hopeless and hence might resort to a life of crime.I would say and I challenge you to respond that the majority of crime that blacks committ is crime of deprivation.That is they resort to crime to satisfy their hunger,and to get the basics in life such as clothing and shelter.The addiction to drugs that the white race and your race is pouring into the black communities to ultimaely destroy the black race is also playing a significant role in the escalation of black criminal activity.
Caricom National in your country Guyana black Guyanese are being deny the oppurtunity to work for an honest dollar.The majority of jobs is going to Indo-Guyanese.That is a fact in Guyana today.Caricom National if you are deny the oppurtunity to provide the basic neccessities of life what would you do?
Caricom National blacks are not born criminals but the oppression by the whites,your race andother ethnic groups has force us to respond in the manner that some of us are doing.
Stereotyping is wrong as you had the experience
CARICOM National // May 14, 2008 at 7:22 PM
Negroman
Yes I may have been the subject of stereotyping when i was in barbados and it didnt bother me much for i dont really care what the bajans think as long as i go about my business
you see i take responsibility for myself and i dont complain about foolishness all the time. I dont blame others for my state and you should stop doing the same.
Well disparing things they may be but i am trying to say it is what drives the stereotyping of blacks to show you why it is percieves by you why other races dont like blacks and maybe some of it might actually true facts (that reality) but I still will not apply such conclusions to the entire black as race you do to the entire indo guyanese race.
You see you dont lie in your bed at nights hearing the Ak-47s ring out in your community where a gruop of men that call themselves african freedom fighter go about killing people in you neighbourhood because of the colour of their skin. I got nuff vlack friends but i tell them straight up that these gunmen would kill me just because i am brown and the only reason i would kill them is not cuz they balck but cuz they want kill me.
Is my analysis really biases?
It is a proven statistic that most of the inmates in the american jails are blacks in america jails
a quote from http://www.hrw.org/backgrounder/usa/incarceration/
“Even more troubling than the absolute number of persons in jail or prison is the extent to which those men and women are African-American. Although blacks account for only 12 percent of the U.S. population, 44 percent of all prisoners in the United States are black (Figure 1).”
Now I never said that black people are inherently criminals that is what you would like to believe so that you can get all worked up again!
No balck man is born a criminal or anything like that…but the stats are there and this may mean one or both of two things:
1blacks are not given justice
2blacks commit more crimes
I was enraged when i watched 60 minutes the other night about the innocent man that was in jail since 1981 for a crime he did not commit but was blamed for just cuz he was black
I how ever disagree with the nonsense that social factors such as poverty can force a man to become a criminal (by lamenting this fact you have accepted that blacks are the majority in jails) When other people are poor they dont go an rob and loot and kill people. thats a sad excuse for crime
On the other hand you should look at the criminal culture that blacks glamourise:
1 being a gangsta
2being a drug dealer
3being an assasin
4being a con
this is espicially done in the music that you listen why would a dj encourage youth to rise they AK and machine? They dont care bout the youths? and when black dude make they money the buy big ride and chain for getting about they starving brothers in africa
you can come with all the stories of serial killers and wife hackers but that is true for mankind and not a single race they no big amount of indian in jail for crimes of murdering and robbing like as for blacks. u worried that indian gon destroy barbados but u still embracing them criminal afro guyanese so u actually fooling yourself!!
you can blame white man and indian and chinese for all your problems you behaving like we come and hold you down and put coke in yuh nose!!! when is u dont want go to scholl and work for anything and rather get fast money from dealing and then blame others for your shortcomings …that is weakness
Imagine you resort to crime for the basics of life…that how mentally weak you are but let me make one thing clear:
THE MAJORITY OF BLACKS DONT THINK LIKE YOU…THEY ARE STRONG HARDWORKING AND INTELLIGENT PEOPLE
you on the other hand fall prey to mental slavery and cry out for every little thing
you claim guyana has marginalisation…you should have seen what burnham did to indian in his day here….he literally tried to strave indians but they no cry and blame they struggle and built…they never kill and rob and loot you know what they did?
they farm they land and work even harder when the black refuse to farm (something that burnham wanted them to do ) the rather work as clerks and get quick and easy money
blacks are not marginalised in guyana must of the public service is blacks, the army is blacks, the police, everywhere!!! u know what the indians do here they farm….most of all the brain box of the guyana government is black…yes Dr. Roger Luncheon runs this country from his desk its he who adivises the president and i believe its he who is the brain of the PPP
i can assure you if you get life on a silver platter (which no one owes you ) you will still have most prople in jail being black…cuz of your mind set….mental slavery…the master being you own black leaders.
CARICOM National // May 14, 2008 at 7:38 PM
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0881455.html
Imagine it bothers me and I aint even black!!
CARICOM National // May 16, 2008 at 5:35 PM
Yo Negroman,
have you ever heard Les Brown speak?
he is one of the best motivational speakers…see if you can get some of his speaches…they are not only motivational but an eye opener….it seems that this man has read my mind and speaks about the stuff i think of
Negroman // May 20, 2008 at 12:38 PM
Caricom National
I can feel the venom and viciousness in your writings towards black people. I have my doubts about your sincerity with blacks.your writings to me gave me the impression that you have little regard for black people.
Caricom National you will not understand the conditions of black people this part of the world.Your people were not enslaved for 400 years,Neither were your people stripped of their basic human dignity,transplanted to a new foreign world and their culture,their spiritual system and everything taken from them.Caricom National you will never feel our pain.Therefore your simplistic and hostile views you express against black people is understandable.
Caricom National your people were in this region about 160 years as Indentured Servants.You all were allowed to maitain your culture and belief system and as a result the indians were allowed to live their lifes practically normal.The opposite happened to us.
In your argument about crime about blacks in USA and the Caribbean you did not take into context the blacks role in the USA previously and now.You did not observed that Institionalised racism was practised in the USA.Blacks were considered 1/3 of human being,we were relegated to the level of chattel and considered to be of same level as animals like the sheep,cow, goat and such like.Blacks were forbidden to participate in business and commercial activities.In short limited or no oppurtunities were available to us.In addition foreign value sytem was forced on us.That is a new religion that is not relevant to us,and a value system that did not take our African heritage into consideration.Everything African was discredited and in some cases made illegal.
Caricom National I do not support crime and will never support criminal activity.I do not support the decadence that is prevailing in black communities today.The gansta rap,drug taking,promiscous sex,and the stupid dressing that the young blacks subsribe to I do not support.However,I analysed and understand why my people are behaving in this way and the stereotyping and insulting and harsh critism that you and your cohorts love to indulge in to put down black people will cease one day coming soon.
Caricom National I can assure you we blacks are getting our act together,we reconnecting with our true spiritual father,we are rebuilding our culture and the value sytem that is relevant to us we are reclaimingour lost heritage.
Caricom National you not know our pain.
CARICOM National // May 20, 2008 at 8:54 PM
It is a pity you feel venom and viciousness in my comments for you are feeling exactly what others feel when you write but I do not write with venom and viciousness…I dont have much time and energy to hate and be venomous
As for regard, I know you dont have any for any other race..therefore you must feel the same
here is another saying of mine:
“It is what you have in your mind for others is what you believe others have in store for you”
I understand the history of black people…everyone one knows the 400 year story. So you decise to compare to indians now…that weak…real weak…just cuz indian dont complain about their struggle
Indentureship was cruel but I will say that slavery was worse. Loosing ones culture and identity is terrible.
But dont you think its that we dont complain about our struggle and that we dont live in the past?
You should stop murmuring about the past and look to the future…black people dont want to be preached about history…they want a way forward….good leadership….the old history talk is outdated.
so what your telling me about blacks and crime in the USA has another excuse now…some descrimination in the past?
it was not you! it was another man of the same race as you…that dont give you an excuse to be a criminal! come on !
did you actually go through slavery yourself? did you live during the time off discrimination?
No, you live in Barbados and the fools that involved in crime were born the other day they dont know what struggle and slavery is like…even if they had an excuse for criminality it can be from 400 years or 50 years ago
Let me tell you why i think they had institutionalised racism against blacks
its not cuz black people were inferior as they said, it cuz the controller knew the strength of blacks and the strength of africa. they tried to cripple the black race in the West. But look what happened, black people overcame it and now they are free….or so it may seem
they are free from racial oppression but still prisoners to the mind poisoning by their own leaders (such as Gibson). you say you dont support crime well i say to you that you are
when you support persons like Gibson for people like her poisons the mind of the african youth in Guyana and lead them to believe that they are freedom fighters when they are just being used for crimes that involve politics and drugs. these freedom fighters work/kill for person that want political power. You know it all started? The drug lords in guyana made a deal with politicians to destabilise the country so that the politicans would gain power and the drug lords would get their way
they recruited young black men to do the dirty work poisoning their minds with racism. they broke them out of the jails and gave them guns
things went wrong in the arragement things got sour. Big war started and eventually the gunmen were killed and drug lord became prominent in GT and later they were taken away by the US. But the recruitment of more young men continues….the mental slave factory is still operating and racism is the tool for the work of the evil
I lie in my bed hearing the shots of AK-47s killing innocent people and you in barbados on your beach telling me about struggle. I know certain individual see me they would kill me because of the colour of my skin and the texture of my hair
I must admit one thing i have gathered about you a while now…i know you are a person with high morals. I know you wont support the stupidness that others are engaged in….you are concious…and although our veiws differ, I chose to keep writing to you on this blog
I urge you to abandon racism and racist thinking for it poisons your mind and your wisdom. Yes something i say may seem harsh but facts are facts. no one likes to be told something bad but if its true they must listen inorder to be aware. I rather someone tell me that my breath is bad rather than go mingle with a crowd.
I know that black are rebuilding and getting better but i get angry when those that influence you try to destroy it all. espicially when it is using academia by writing a book filled with total nonsense R
Remeber that the spiritual father that you speak of will never desert you and He is the answer to it all. Once you connect with The Highest no one can poison your mind. Remeber that God teaches us the hardest lessons and He always shows us when we are wrong. Maybe I do not know your pain for I can only know my own pain. No one needs to know your pain and no one will make things better for you.
Quite frankly no one is interested in the pain of others…people will not help you if you always complain… people tend to help when they see you embrace love and pursue progress in spirit, mind, and body.
Stop being a vitim and become a victor!
CARICOM National // May 20, 2008 at 8:58 PM
Correction
“even if they had an excuse for criminality it can be from 400 years or 50 years ago”
*change can to Can’t
CARICOM National // May 20, 2008 at 9:00 PM
Correction
The last should come befor the first
so what your telling me about blacks and crime in the USA has another excuse now…some descrimination in the past?
it was not you! it was another man of the same race as you…that dont give you an excuse to be a criminal! come on !
Bonny Peppa // November 17, 2008 at 11:54 AM
WOULD ALL GUYANESE, ILLEGAL PLEASE APPROACH THE DEPARTURE LOUNGE.
TRAVEL SAFELY.
YOU ARE NOT WELCOME BACK.
Anonymous // November 17, 2008 at 12:05 PM
ha ha ha ha ha haha
Bonny Peppa // November 17, 2008 at 2:06 PM
I meant to say ‘all Guyanese, legal and illegal’.
Anonymous, wah you laffing at?