We have been bombarded with emails about an article which appeared in the Nation newspaper of 20 April 2008 under the by line Carl Moore – The More Things Change . Unlike Carl Moore we respect his right to foist his opinion on others. The right to free speech is something which our democracy has been built. The fact that some people have chosen the Internet to disseminate views which have been stifled in the traditional media appear to be lost on Carl Moore. This is a journalist who has used the traditional media to fight a perennial one man battle against noise pollution with a negliable result to date – spoken with the proverbial tongue in cheek like only Bush tea can. As an aside, Carl Moore maybe surprise to learn the identity of some of our commenters which include politicians, priests, civil servants current and retired, and believe or not, journalists!
Let us clear-up a misunderstanding which Mr. Moore seems to be labouring under. His willingness to criticize the blogs, we assume he means Barbados Free Press (BFP) and Barbados Underground (BU) when he really means some commenters suggests that he has some misunderstandings about what is a blog. A blog is Barbados Underground which is owned by blogger David and the BU household, the main objective of the blog is to promote the opinions of the blogger. The blog offers the opportunity for commenters to interact with the blogger by sharing opinions which hopefully benefit all the participants. More importantly blogs have the functionality which allow other blogs from all over the world including Barbados to ping(link) stories. The interaction leads to a blogosphere which is enhanced by the knowledge which is shared.
Like anything which involves human beings there is good and bad. Carl More seems to have a beef with the quality of journalism and the pseudonyms which BFP and BU and commenters have had to resort to in order to achieve the objective of sharing important information. Unlike Mr.Moore who seems to be a retired person they are others who because they fear victimization have used the Internet and blogs to share information. We are the first to admit that some have misused the blogs and where possible we have tried to filter those commenters while recognizing the individuals right to freedom of expression. During the last general election when the traditional media was restricted by a government that was known to be very hostile towards the media, subsequent events demonstrated that the media cowered in the face of the intimidation. The blogs were used to break stories which the traditional media refused. We have discussed issues regarding the cost of living, the crying need to identify alternative sources of energy, issues associated with a growing ethic and illegal population, increasing barriers to intra-regional travel, the role of the Church, a sensible land use policy, regionalism and the list goes on and on.
Let us debunk the inexactitude perpetrated by Carl Moore about the Bajan blogosphere. The Barbados Underground have never promoted ourselves as journalists. We have associated with the idea that the free-wheeling nature of the Internet allows the blogs to complement traditional media by protecting freedom of information. In the face of admissions by David Ellis and other journalists that they have been challenged at times to do their jobs, developing other avenues to protect the people’s right to freedom of speech, which is an important tenet in any democracy become paramount. The willingness of Carl Moore to remain committed to his single line notebook and pencil in an age of the computer and the Internet we accept as part of the challenge as Barbados and the world transition from old to new. There is a role for Carl Moore to play to ensure that key ingredients of the old media culture is transferred to the new. Whether he agrees or not it will call for an acceptance of blogs. We agree that some of our credibility is compromised because of our current anonymous configuration, but Mr. Moore should regard this as part of the process which will lead to an inevitable result of improving the unfettered distribution of ideas and information.
Barbados is a small community and the wholesale adoption of how blogs have been accepted in other parts of the world must be seen against this background.
Let us provide an example:
Both the Nation and Advocate newspapers have not incorporated blogs into their online format. If blogs were allowed, the journalists would be able to interact with the readers and get immediate feedback. A scan of the Trinidad and Jamaica newspapers this morning confirmed that this practice is in place. The same can be said about the online radio stations in Barbados which have struggled to maintain blogs or other fora to interact with their readership. Carl Moore who appears to have no respect for citizen journalists or what some refer to as the social media should explain why traditional media has been unable to integrate new distribution channels i.e. blogs.
We have deliberately not mentioned the phenomenon of Face book, My Space and other social networks which politicians in the USA have been using with mind blowing results. The point we are making Mr. Moore, you need to remove yourself from the archaic practices of the past. While your stubbornness in your current approach may still allow you to have your message resonate with the dinosaur era (no disrespect intended), there is a new generation who cares not for your nostalgic beliefs. It might explain the rapid growth of visitors of the BFP and BU (we continue to be surprise at the number of our unique and repeat visitors).
Mr. Moore we hope that you can come to the blogoshere and engage us on this important issue. If you retain your thin-skinned approach then we advise that you stay in the comfortable environs of Fontebelle. In deference to your cause we have placed a button on our sidebar to highlight the scourge of noise abuse.
By the way we love bananas!













139 responses so far ↓
Bajan // April 20, 2008 at 2:05 PM
This is the same Carl Moore who has been calling for shortwave radio? Well BBC just stop broadcasting shortwave which addresses relevance of course.
Keltruth Corp. // April 20, 2008 at 2:20 PM
Yes, I am one of the cowards. I run a blog. I exercise precautions to safeguard my life here in Miami, but my identity is no secret and even here I am vulnerable.
I am about to publish some provocative articles, and I fear that I may never be able to visit to my native land.
BU and other blogs, Do not reveal your identities. We are not involved in a game. Serious things have happened.
One other thing. I may be scared, but I am prepared to make the ultimate sacrifice. In the event that I am removed from the picture, I have made arrangements for the shares of Keltruth Corp. to be transferred, and for the company to continue its blog.
Dead Targets // April 20, 2008 at 2:27 PM
Yes, he is right.
You are cowards.
Carl Moore // April 20, 2008 at 3:03 PM
I’ve already come to the blogosphere and you bored me with your personal attacks on people.
Start discussing issues minus spleen and vulgarity and I will willingly engage you. I’ve been doing so, with real people, for the past 50 years.
In the meantime, meet me every other Sunday in The Sun. I have some more licks for you in two weeks time … to be continued!
Who are these Johnnies-come-lately to writing, anyway? You mean “deference”, don’t you? Or don’t you know the difference?
Krzysztof Skubiszewski // April 20, 2008 at 3:06 PM
Interesting that you should run this today.
Also today, The New York Times has a long and damning article exposing Pentagon dirty tricks where Donald Rumsfeld hired retired military top brass to appear on ALL the TV news shows to praise the Dept. of Defense and by extension, Rumsfeld. Without saying they were being paid handsomely by the Pentagon.
At a time when other retired generals were calling for Rumsfeld’s resignation for far more than incompetence.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/20/washington/20generals.html?
An isolated incident? Of course not.
We are being told about Iraq only what the US government wants us to know. There are no longer qualified (whatever that means) journalists there because it is too dangerous and the Pentagon doesn’t want them there anyway.
So why does Mr. Moore expect us to trust the “established” media? Here or there? Because we no longer can. (Not that we ever could anyway.)
On the phoney smoke-screen argument about using pseudonyms. I am a professional journalist working for a major media house but writing here under an assumed name because it suits me.
But I could supply Mr. Moore with an extensive list of famous politicians, industrialists, businessmen & women and PR flacks (or is it hacks) who make a tidy living writing under assumed names. Or not using a name at all. (Ever heard of “an anonymous source” Mr. Moore?)
The classic line in the movie “A Few Good Men” where Jack Nicholson bellows, “The truth! You can’t handle the truth!” is I think, an apt description of the modern (whatever that means) media scene.
And if the blogs only get it right 75% of the time it’s much better than nothing.
David // April 20, 2008 at 3:09 PM
Now who is it getting personal? Unlike the Nation newspaper we don’t have a proof-reader but we hasten to add that despite that luxury we read of the numerous corrections on a daily basis. By the way did we use the word in proper context? You may have the time to rummage in the lexicon of verbiage but we don’t have such luxuary. Ours is to communicate a message. Let us ask you another question. Is it true that you are not allowed to mention BU or BFP in your colomn? We have from good authority that this is the case because the iron lady Mrs Gittens say so.
Anyway if afte navigating our many blogs and you can’t find issues we dun wid u.
P.S. we did not use the spell checker on this comment either so don’t be afraid to let the grammarian in you come out.
Reporter // April 20, 2008 at 3:18 PM
Seems to me that Carl Moore is full of hate and has one objective to attack the scourge of the blogs at any cause. Maybe he will have the same success he has gotten with his nothing campaign agains noise pollution :-)
xenophobe chick // April 20, 2008 at 3:26 PM
Bad sign. Your age is showing Mr. Moore. So either give it up altogether or get with the programme. Blogs are here to stay.
Unlike Krzysztof Skubiszewski I am not a journalist but I do live with one.
Who grinds his teeth whenever he sees something in a Bajan blog that he would never be allowed to release in his employer’s organ – in the journalistic sense – even though he knows it’s true and often actually knows far more about it than the blogger.
I did not use a spell-checker and I approve this message.
Reporter // April 20, 2008 at 3:38 PM
Why has the Nation and others not publish the truth about how the Ghanaians got here? They know but as usual they are waiting for the green light from someone to publish it. Two months now and they are sitting on information which the public deserves to know. If I was at the nation I would buy a plane ticket for Timothy Slinger and send his tail to Ghana to sniff out this story. Instead they operate in reactive mode.
Man if I had money I would do it and give the blogs the exclusive. Tell Carl Moore to attack the real problem and take his head from you know where.
Think about It // April 20, 2008 at 3:40 PM
Unfortunately everyone thus far that I have read, has an axe to grind.
David. I have discerned it in alot of of your subject matter. You stated above: (paraphrase) “It’s your blog and you will introduce what is of concern to you and allow commenters (within reason) to respond”.
If the subject falls under your “axe” much support is given to it. If for some reason you are “biased” then you too fall under the same disease that the Nation and company have succumbed to.
We need Journalists/Bloggers who do their utmost to be neutral or there will always be an element of discoloration in everything that is disseminated.
Carl Moore // April 20, 2008 at 3:48 PM
Dear Krzysztof Skubiszewski, I am not asking anyone to “trust the established media”.
I’ve been a journalist since 1958. There is no one more sceptical that I am. All I ask for is a little decency. Behave yourselves on the Internet. It’s a great invention that mankind should use in making life more worthwhile. Don’t abuse it. That’s all I ask. Tear a man’s ideas to pieces, not the man. Why is that so hard to do?
No one at The Nation has asked me not to mention the blogs’ names. If or when I have to I will. So far, in the two columns I’ve done, I didn’t think it necessary. You know who you are. Look at the response in just a few hours after the paper hit the road today.
If “The Iron Lady”—whoever she is—or anyone else at Fontabelle makes any such suggestion, I’ll simply stop writing. I’m busy as it is trying to keep the 68-year-old grey matter from turning to jello!
I support the blogs. The clean ones. Did you know that I was one of the first Barbadian bloggers? Back there around 2002 when I had a website. I wasn’t as successful as BFP and BU. Please, please, resist telling me that I am jealous. It was costing me too much to run my website and I closed it down. I’m a poor retiree on a fixed pension. Maybe, it was too clean. Right, fellas? Ask the folks at NationLogic if you doubt me.
BU, thanks for your promised help on noise pollution. The place is too noisy. I hope you are not one of those who love noise? You make enough of it on this website.
Have a good weekend, and don’t let’s get too emotional.
P.S. If you need any proof-reading assistance, do let me know.
David // April 20, 2008 at 3:59 PM
Well Mr. Moore let us encourage you to start your own blog it is FREE! Click on http://wordpress.com.
Next we encourage you to read the Wikipedia extract on blogs.
Finally we challenge you to dare mention BU or BFP in your column and see what happens. Perform that litmus test for us and prove us wrong. Only two columnists have done it to date, Al Gilkes and the BLP colum Beresford Leopold Phillips. We don’t have to explain to an old hand like you Mr. More the power in those columns. Do you have the same power?
BTW you ask us not to get emotional yet in your column of today you titled your article ‘Send them a banana’. We think we are entitled to get a little emotional. You have started something and we hope that your are prepared to finish it!
NO MORE MARINAS EVER // April 20, 2008 at 4:16 PM
TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN
Please stop me from making a complete ass of myself when I’m 68. Or whatever.
Carl Moore // April 20, 2008 at 4:48 PM
Yaawn … It’s now 4:45p. and that well-known Bajan condition that begins with “n” has started to cut in, after a latish lunch.
Catch you good folks some other time. Have a good weekend, and be careful on the roads.
The name is Moore … Carl Moore!
David // April 20, 2008 at 5:06 PM
Carl Moore so far we have tried our best to goad you into making some insightful comments but it seems that you are set in your ways. Just remember the ‘world’ is watching to see how a veteran journalist handles himself in the encounter with citizen journalist…lol.
Anonymous // April 20, 2008 at 5:56 PM
I am not concerned about Mr. Moores opinion of the BFP and BU but I suggest that Mr. Moore when singling out Blogs as “Cowards” and not at the same time addressing the prejudiced, biased and racist practises of the mainstream media in Barbados, who are not only cowards but puppets of the last Government and certain privileged sections of the Barbados elite shows that this man is a bush league commentator and is in the pockets of the elite scavengers of Barbados.
Let me say that I cannot get either the Barbados Advocate or the Nation News to print any letter to the editor I send them and yet I have letters to the editor printed in International sections of the major press. Maybe Mr. Moore might like to comment on this, before pointing fingers at Blogs as being “Cowards! I suggest Mr. Moore is an Uncle Tom!
Chris Halsall // April 20, 2008 at 5:57 PM
If I may quote from a letter I received a while ago:
“We therefore advise that unless you retract your malicious and unwarranted attack on our client, provide them with an apology and advise us as to what amount you are prepared to pay to our client as compensation for injury caused to its trade, we have advised our client to institute legal proceedings against you forthwith for damages for malicious falsehood without further notice to yourself.
I have been advised (by my own talent) that I cannot publicly state who sent me this letter. (“They’re just doing their jobs…”.) I am probably making a big mistake simply with this post…
However, while I agree with Mr. Moore that anonymous posts breed inappropriate personal attacks, I have personally found that, here in Bim at least, having the courage to put one name behind statements can be very expensive.
It is also perhaps worth noting that only last weekend I might have been mentioned in Flying Fish and Cou Cou. I would provide a link to what was published, but for some reason the content of same is not available on the Internet…
The traditional Forth Estate need to realize that the Internet allows anyone to have a voice. This is a Good Thing (TM). While you may not always agree with what is said on a blog, the fact is that unless said blog brings value to the dialog, it won’t be read. No one is forcing anyone to read. And, as a corollary, anyone can start their own.
We live in a changing world — one where anyone can self-publish. In other words, a world where it is impossible to keep secrets secret.
There is no sense in trying to hold back water; swim, or drown…
Straight talk // April 20, 2008 at 6:58 PM
Dead Targets;
Yeah, too right I am a coward….. and so are you.
I, and I suspect you, enjoy the freedom and anonimity of a blogging pseudonym.
What is the big deal with true identities?
It’s the message that counts.
I don’t know you, or for that matter, Carl Moore ,from Adam but that don’t make no difference in their postings.
I read every post, analyse it and decide whether to alter my preconcieved view or not.
That is my prerogative as a human being with a funtioning brain.
With the exception of Lowdown (BTW where is he to be found on-line this week?), The Nation’s contributors are a woeful bunch of frustrated has-beens and poorly qualified wannabees.
CM which category are you?
If you want serious unfettered debate, continue to contribute to the blogs.
If you really do need the protection of establishment approval to protect your obvious thin skin, stick with your pathetic, outdated and frankly ridiculous brickbats thrown from the safety of a gated fourth estate.
Anon // April 20, 2008 at 10:11 PM
Carl Moore is a dinosaur.
He is from the old skool and anything new and different scares the hell out of him.
People like him are commited to the old boys network. The sleeze, corrution, the nastiness he is happy to protect and hide. But this is a new dispensation and we are not willing to take any bs lightly. As his friends the Barbados Labour Party found out recently.
Carl Moore is irevelent. The best thing for him to do now is to sit quietly in his rocking chair while reading the Nation Newspaper.
He can tell his buddies in the old media that we are more interested in the blogs than what they have to say. Which is not much anyway e.g. Carl Moore, Albert branford. Yuck!
Natural Mystic // April 20, 2008 at 11:22 PM
I like Carl Moore and what he stands for. I find that there is a negative element in the blogs because they are open, but that is because they are free for all.
I, for only one, accept Mr. Moore’s criticism and will continue to blog forward, knowing that blogs are making history in today’s Barbados, trying to help make a difference.
There are many things the papers will not touch because of their ownership structures. Does that make them non-issues or irrelevant? Mr. Moore, please, with the greatest respect to you, can this be a damnation or is it the crux of the blog matter?
Green Monkey // April 21, 2008 at 12:59 AM
Just something to consider:
David // April 21, 2008 at 5:55 AM
As usual we tend to focus on the negative elements here in Barbados. We admit that there is negative but guess what, there are positives. During the last general election the blogs were able to release information which the traditional media was too shitless to publish. Owen Arthur had them all sitting on eggs. Don’t be fooled, later in Thompson’s tenure he will probably put some pressure on the media as well.
We have realized from our brief interaction with Mr. Moore that he is set in his ways and he is entitled to be so. We operate on the Internet which is unregulated, it is the down side about the WWW. There is the opportunity to get information out there but any jerk can come on board.
Having said that Mr. Moore do we throw out the baby with the bath-water?
Please be advised that this we did not usespell checker.
Technician // April 21, 2008 at 6:25 AM
LOL David.
Ian Bourne // April 21, 2008 at 6:50 AM
Is easy for Carl to say wunna be cowards…
Yet I do not hide, and I nearly paid the price when I ran a legit exposee on a company that needed to show more care for its services – despite my still possessing ALL the evidence!
There is a reason for the “mask” it’s kinda like Zorro, still yes – it can get ridiculous at times but then that is why there is discretion of choice, no?
Ian Bourne // April 21, 2008 at 6:53 AM
PS – even though I do not hide, no one refers to my blog in mainstream media, so answer that Carl – or you deny the Nation/Starcom’s policy of ignoring citizen journalism? If you do, I call you a liar as I have spoken with more than one reporter there who have said so… Even Ellis once asked me about a Rihanna item I ran, but he was careful to do it when it just him and me at a Starcom function.
The People's Democratic Congress // April 21, 2008 at 7:39 AM
The image of the DLP’s Minister of Housing, Mr. Michael Lashley embracing a female tenant, Brenda Rouse-King, of a housing unit in the Haynesville Housing Estate, along with a snippet of news about the DLP Government’s intention to transfer ownerships of housing units to certain long standing tenants of the NHC, by way of letters of intent that are to be handed out to her as well as to over 2000 prospective housing unit owners in the Government’s transfer of ownership of NHC housing units programme, appears as part of the Front page of last Friday’s Weekend Nation, Friday, April 18, 2008, and with the full story appearing on a later page in the said newspaper.
So much for the DLP/Nation public relations – a stark reminder of much of what the last BLP Government/Nation combination used to do to make many members of the newspaper reading public feel as if much was really being done in regard of much of what they ( the BLP and the Nation) were doing – when in truth and in fact much was NOT happening – the fact remains that in this case of the DLP government’s intention to transfer the ownership of certain NHC units to tenants of land standing commitment to the NHC, the DLP deserves NO NO NO NO credit WHATSOEVER FOR THE PROGRAMME, ONLY THESE LONG PAYING TENANTS DESERVE SUCH CREDIT FOR ULTIMATELY BECOMING OWNERS OF SUCH UNITS. Here are four reasons why the DLP does NOT deserve any credit for such a programme:
1) As in our Pre-election Manifesto a total of 8 years of continous tenancy is enough to bring about such ownership to tenants of NHC (and other renters of dwellings, houses and commercial properties in Barbados) – NOT 20 years and more as the DLP is emphasizing for NHC tenants;
2) The ten year covenant imposed on these prospective owners of these units – NOT TO SELL – is so silly and stupid that it takes away from real ownership. NO SUCH THING WOULD HAVE EXISTED IF WE WERE THE GOVERNMENT UNDERTAKING A SIMILAR PROGRAM;
3) These prospective owners over the years after paying such great amounts of accumulated rents really have long owned these units. It is therefore only a matter of the Government formally handing them over to them. Were this Government to have been seen as delaying any longer in handing over these units to the rightful owners, it would clearly have meant that the Government would, in these cases, have been further assisting in the explotation and marginalization of these people; and
4) The concept of the transfer of ownership in these units to the tenants did NOT start with the DLP, but with many citizens and tenants many years ago. The DLP has simply jumped on the bandwagon for flagrant political reasons. For years the DLP ignored such, only when it politically suited them they began to take such into consideration.
So, long live the long suffering but resilient tenants of many of these NHC housing units!!
PDC
Me // April 21, 2008 at 7:49 AM
yeah definitely cowards! I agree with mr moore!
Green Monkey // April 21, 2008 at 8:34 AM
Who you is ME?
Natural Mystic // April 21, 2008 at 8:39 AM
“For the cause that lacks assitance
For the wrongs that beg resistance
and the good that I can do..”
“The Nation cares..”
Here is a partial list of what the blogs have done Let’s consider adding to this list:
Highlight the overexpenditure and the inflated cost of the highway and the flyovers. Only the blogs broke the news while the papers suppressed this hundred million dollar fiasco that swayed elections, and in doing so exceeded many world-wide blog sites, right here from Barbados.
Showed and exposed methods employed in government and in other areas to source materials and equipment that may not be economical- a form of price gouging that is unaddressed as yet.
Brought stories that did good for Barbados when the newspapers refused to do so, some of which showed the newspapers as being controlled by big business RATHER THAN, as Sanka Price says today in Nation News, motivated by the need to bring the real relevant news to the community. And most importantly the area where he mentions the need to do right. I can opine that in this respect the requirement to do right, rather than being breached by blogs, was breached by the mainstream news media of Barbados
Maybe “we” bloggers are cowards and maybe “we”, as bloggers, are whistleblowers, or maybe better referred to as news givers.
And maybe some of us are liars and cowards, who can say?
The point for all of us to realise is that our newspapers are failing sections of the Bajan community. Many of these areas are being fulfilled by the blogs.
Now THAT”S news.
ME TOO // April 21, 2008 at 8:51 AM
Ha ha, Green Monkey want to know who is “Me”. Would that be because we all know who you are,, Green Monkey/No Name/Sargeant, dont we now.
Me // April 21, 2008 at 9:04 AM
I think that BU and BFS etc should not hide…I think that they should prsent stories in a proper journalistis balanced way ( even better than the Nation / Advocate). Hyperbole, sensationalistic drivel, name calling, unsubstantiated claims and virulent innuendo helps no one ESPECIALLY if you claim to be presenting the TRUTH. There is no such thing as TRUE freedom of expression given that you arent allowed to shout ‘Fire ‘ when there is none in the middle of a packed theatre! BFS and BU should recognise that bringing ‘NEWS’ does carry some responsibility!
Adrian Hinds // April 21, 2008 at 9:13 AM
Carl Moore // April 20, 2008 at 3:03 pm
I’ve already come to the blogosphere and you bored me with your personal attacks on people.
Start discussing issues minus spleen and vulgarity and I will willingly engage you. I’ve been doing so, with real people, for the past 50 years.
In the meantime, meet me every other Sunday in The Sun. I have some more licks for you in two weeks time … to be continued!
Who are these Johnnies-come-lately to writing, anyway? You mean “deference”, don’t you? Or don’t you know the difference?
=================================
Few people epitomize a loser in the way this Carl Moore person does. The society for a quieter Barbados will most likely not get traction, or will be taken seriously until its association with this person is discontinued.
Carl Moore is a condescending and angry person and this personality trait is evident throughout his activities for a quieter Barbados. Noise ordinances are to be found in many societies and their passage and introduction to these societies had not taken this long, or have been fraught with such needless complexity and anger that this Carl Moore person is attempting. There is no need for a subvention, or a government post and pay to introduce noise ordinance laws, and more importantly to sensitize Barbadians to the health benefits of a quieter Barbados. Case in point for year’s trash disposal in Barbados has been haphazard. It was plain to see that a negative cultural attitude existed where believe and practice was evident. It was a practice that suggested by our collective actions that one did not have to care about disposing of one’s trash on the street, in gutters etc, because we had “scavengers” that we paid to clean up our mess. The approach of shaming and threatening people with hefty fines alone did not work. It has taken the efforts of people like Ian Bourne too turn things around via education, organizing tours to the schools for the next generation to learn and appreciate proper trash disposal habits.
BU why did you find it necessary to highlight this person and their failed attempts as a leading story? He is a failure, and a liar to boot. He failed to make any headway in realizing a quieter Barbados, and he has lied with reference to this entire blog as a place that cannot discuss issues without “spleen and vulgarity”. He has further lied about the unwillingness of persons to post under their real names. When he first attempted to use the latter as a legitimate strike against this blog, he in is usual condescending manner sought to suggest that Adrian Hinds isn’t my real name. If this does not make him an Idiot then I will apologize for calling him one.
…..and in the usual antics of a Bajan Language maven he takes his failures out on others grammatical and spelling mistakes. Poor fellow deserves pity not to be publicly highlighted for the angry failure that he is. Shame on you BU. :D
Adrian Hinds // April 21, 2008 at 9:22 AM
Dear Krzysztof Skubiszewski, I am not asking anyone to “trust the established media”.
I’ve been a journalist since 1958. There is no one more sceptical that I am. All I ask for is a little decency. Behave yourselves on the Internet. It’s a great invention that mankind should use in making life more worthwhile. Don’t abuse it. That’s all I ask. Tear a man’s ideas to pieces, not the man. Why is that so hard to do?
No one at The Nation has asked me not to mention the blogs’ names. If or when I have to I will. So far, in the two columns I’ve done, I didn’t think it necessary. You know who you are. Look at the response in just a few hours after the paper hit the road today.
If “The Iron Lady”—whoever she is—or anyone else at Fontabelle makes any such suggestion, I’ll simply stop writing. I’m busy as it is trying to keep the 68-year-old grey matter from turning to jello!
I support the blogs. The clean ones. Did you know that I was one of the first Barbadian bloggers? Back there around 2002 when I had a website. I wasn’t as successful as BFP and BU. Please, please, resist telling me that I am jealous. It was costing me too much to run my website and I closed it down. I’m a poor retiree on a fixed pension. Maybe, it was too clean. Right, fellas? Ask the folks at NationLogic if you doubt me.
BU, thanks for your promised help on noise pollution. The place is too noisy. I hope you are not one of those who love noise? You make enough of it on this website.
Have a good weekend, and don’t let’s get too emotional.
P.S. If you need any proof-reading assistance, do let me know.
David // April 20, 2008 at 3:59 pm
Well Mr. Moore let us encourage you to start your own blog it is FREE! Click on http://wordpress.com.
Next we encourage you to read the Wikipedia extract on blogs.
Finally we challenge you to dare mention BU or BFP in your column and see what happens. Perform that litmus test for us and prove us wrong. Only two columnists have done it to date, Al Gilkes and the BLP colum Beresford Leopold Phillips. We don’t have to explain to an old hand like you Mr. More the power in those columns. Do you have the same power?
BTW you ask us not to get emotional yet in your column of today you titled your article ‘Send them a banana’. We think we are entitled to get a little emotional. You have started something and we hope that your are prepared to finish it!
=================================
Is anyone under any illusions that this Carl Moore is on a personal gloat adventure? I see no reason not to view his attempts with the “quieter Barbados” action in the same light. This is probably why he has failed so far. Someone called him a dinosaur, and i am challenging that. There is to this day a lot of interest in Dinosaurs and this is at odds with this Carl Moore person and anything he has done or is attempting to do.
Journalist from a place in Fontabelle. // April 21, 2008 at 9:25 AM
Mr. Moore, you have brought disrepute to our profession by behaving like a petulant child. I never thought the day would come when I thought of you as an epic fail. For goodness sakes man it is time to get real and stop this foolish behavior.
Can you seriously contend that there is no substantive issues discussed on BU or BFP? By your statement you, sir, do untold damage to your credibility, and ours.
BGR // April 21, 2008 at 9:32 AM
Journalist Carl Moore Love/Hate Relationship With Bajan’s Blogs
I got my colleagues to agree that all letters to the Editor had to be signed with real names. That policy continues to today.
My reason was that if Government minister
Mr John Boyce orders that all music will cease on noisy public transport from next week, you ought to be man enough to stand up and say: “I, DeLisle Moore, vehemently disagree with the minister.” And why.
Don’t hide behind the safety of some silly pseudonym and snipe at the gentleman, in the process going back down his family tree to disclose whom
his grandmother cooked for at the great-house
in Christ Church.
That’s my problem with “blogging”. I draw the line when such actions degenerate into character assassination and other forms of public mischief . [Source The Nation]
Of all the things more relevant to write about in these troubles times, Carl Moore in his column ‘”The Moore Things Change”, in today’s newspaper decided to touch on the legacy that Barbadians blogs may leave behind when bloggers hide behind pseudonym and “snipe” at persons with no way of knowing who is doing the sniping.
Well Mr Moore, there are blogs and there are blogs. Each one have they own unique character. The gossip blogs on the net are aware of what legacy they leave behind, nevertheless their primary concern is to get their gossip out. Then there are tech blogs, health blogs, political blogs, news blogs, financial blogs etc.
If I find 5 tech blogs and out of those 5, 2 may fancy my interest more, I may even not bother with the other 3!!!!!.
Secondly persons post/blog anonymously for various reasons. As with character assassination it is left for the author to regulate such or ban if necessary.
Thirdly why would “all 650 words of this article will appear on a blog, verbatim,” as if us bloggers don’t have anything better to do than to cater to such a facetious statement so as to give you an excuse to bring attention to yourself.
I must say though the article made for interesting reading in a rather dull Sunday dead tree version.
Bajan Global Report
www,bimchat.wordpress.com
BGR // April 21, 2008 at 9:34 AM
Bajan Global Report
http://www.bimchat.wordpress.com
Krzysztof Skubiszewski // April 21, 2008 at 9:46 AM
Oh I forgot to mention. We read what we like. In newspapers we skip whole pages of boredom. And there are more blogs that died when no-one read them than newspaper pages we skip. If you get my drift.
Adrian Hinds // April 21, 2008 at 10:52 AM
In the true spirit of a self confessed Negrocrat, Sir Conrad Reeves, who once said in an address at Harrison College, with the white Governor on the island present “Here i am on Olympus looking down on you ordinary mortals”. This attitude was even more marked in dealing with his own color. It is said that he refused to let his daughter marry the leading physician on the island because that latter was too dark.
…..Today we have one Carl Moore finding it necessary to suggest that fellow Barbadians could well be Monkeys in need of a ripe Banana. His exact words below
“BUT THERE IS AN AMUSING IRONY ABOUT THE NEW TECHNOLOGY. ON THE INTERNET AT ANY GIVEN TIME YOU DON’T KNOW WHOM YOU ARE TALKING TO. IT COULD WELL BE A GAGGLE OF MONKEYS ! TO BE ON THE SAFE SIDE I ALWAYS KEEP A RIPE BANANA HANDY.”
From Conrad Reeves to Carl Moore. Indeed for some people, ….”The more things changes the more they remain the same. ”
Does he really draw the line on character assassination? or can i just chalk this up as yet another LIE?
Yardbroom // April 21, 2008 at 12:21 PM
When one “claims” to be erudite, they carry a heavy load.
A gaggle of monkeys surely you mean a “troop” unless you mean bloggers are not human, why “gaggle”? perhaps geese, but I defer, clarity! Oh yes! clarity.
Adrian Hinds // April 21, 2008 at 12:42 PM
There is nothing erudite about Carl Moore’s focus on BU’s spelling and or grammatical errors. He is, in this case doing no less than other Language mavens have done,….looking for and using these errors to belittle and befuddle persons with whom they cannot win an argument. His use of gaggle however is in good context, for the point that he is labouring to instill in us, about us. Gaggle In colloquial Western Canadian English, is an adjective describing a largely disorganized group of Jildos (another colloquial adjective describing a woman that tends to be annoying and lacking in her own individual opinions) putting forth discontent among all related fellows. To him we are a bunch of disorganize monkeys. Do you not feel sorry for this modern day Conrad Reeves who finds utility in being offensive towards people that have the same skin tone and anatomical features as he? Is it any accident that said skin tone and anatomical features have been caricature by racists as similar to those of monkeys for the purpose of belittling and abusing a particular people?
Yardbroom // April 21, 2008 at 2:04 PM
I just wondered how the person whom I do not know – whose “image” adorns the piece – could choose the word “monkeys” to describe “Bajan bloggers” because he must know the connotations inherent in his choice of word. Therefore my subtle reference to bloggers “not being human”.
Adrian I take the point you have made.
Outside of the fish bowl // April 21, 2008 at 2:27 PM
One thing I find so funny about about this is that Mr. Moore seems to think it’s okay to call us monkeys. I remember a big stink a few years ago when a West Coast bar painted monkeys in their bar and everybody went nuts! But not to worry Mr. Moore, I’ve been told that if you put a 1000 monkeys in a room with type-writers that they should come up with a novel sooner than later. In the mean time I think that you should consider an apology to us “monkeys” out here; the comment could be taken as being racist at the very least as Adrian has implied.
Adrian Hinds // April 21, 2008 at 3:18 PM
There was once a plantation owner in the parish of St.Thomas who shot a man that he claim he mistook for a monkey. He had the possibility of poor eye sight, or poor visibility, to lend some credible currency to his claim,…. although it was most likely his sterotypical purview of the “natives” that led to this incident in the first place. What, pray tell can be the excuse that dishonest Carl Moore may use to quiet the concern that his speculation about the “name of the species” that typed the words he has opined to be a serving of bile, spleen?
…..Yeh Carl, lets call them Monkeys and shoot them down.
Bush tea // April 21, 2008 at 4:24 PM
I was trying my best to avoid this thread, but what the hell…
Why wanna don’t leave Carl Moore alone?!?
…all yuh can’t see that the poor man is trying, even at this late stage to make some meaningful contribution. Carl is best known for his maverick efforts back in the days of the early Nation newspaper in insisting that letters to the editor not use pen names. … that was the high point of his career.
Obviously he is trying for one last blaze of glory, and what better target that his tried and trusty dig at pseudonyms… in the form of the blogs?
Carl is a 1960’s version of Peter Wickham, with visions of grandeur and unfortunately not blessed with the necessary talents to realize such dreams. This leads to the taking of really stupid positions on simple issues in attempts to be noticed….
Personally, I always figured that he was a descendant of the other famous Moore…..
Ossie.
Pat // April 21, 2008 at 5:39 PM
Bush Tea, LOL, I refused to comment on this thread. But, you have made my day. lol!
Adrian Hinds // April 21, 2008 at 5:45 PM
Bush Tea you made me laugh, but i cannot concur. Once again this Carl Moore is liken unto something or someone that many others have an interest in, and therein lies the conflict. :D
the beauty of blogging « what crazy looks like // April 21, 2008 at 5:56 PM
[...] are responses from bajan global report and barbados underground to the carl moore article. Filed under: Barbados, blogging, media [...]
ROBOT // April 21, 2008 at 6:19 PM
carl moore sounds like a pompous elite with a colonial mentality
i hate it when these so-called english language gurus play that they can be correcting people’s grammar and making insulting remarks under some classist racists smugness that they would want to proffer as being educated. it sounds like snobbery to me and brings back memories of slavery and the subjugation of black people.
David // April 21, 2008 at 6:38 PM
Adrian we highlighted this story for the very reason Mr. Moore and others might suggest we wouldn’t. It provides an opportunity for the blogosphere to discuss this issue as part of the process of determining our rightful place in the world of spreading opinions, ideas, news and the like.
Maybe after this discussion we may conclude that Mr. Moore is correct with all the feedback we have been getting and bow out like Marginal has with grace.
Adrian Hinds // April 21, 2008 at 8:15 PM
Fair enough, but i will not be part of anything that this joker is party too. So if he becomes your proof reader and whatever else and i am made aware of it i wil take my leave. I am not surprise by Marginal decision, in fact i hinted at it, over there. NFTM was started for all the wrong reasons, and thats why it did not last.
Anon // April 22, 2008 at 7:29 AM
Who running dis board DAVID? You or Carl Moore?
ef carl moore want proper spelllin leh e start e own blog.
John // April 22, 2008 at 7:32 AM
Here is the chorus from Swingin’ on a star, an old Frank Sinatra song. Seem to remember Doris Day also sung it.
Kind of stuck with me from the 60’s and pictures at the Roodals Drive In.
Mum used to sing this to us as children when we were being … well, am er …. monkeys.
“Now all the monkeys aren’t in a zoo (in a zoo)
Why, every day I meet quite a few (quite a few)
And so you see, it’s all up to you (up to you)
You could be better than you are
You could be swingin’ on a star
You could be swingin’ on a star”
Sometimes I still feel like a real monkey, and if Carl is handing out bananas, ….. I’ll take one.
ROBOT // April 22, 2008 at 10:29 AM
we are in deep sh…
John // April 22, 2008 at 10:56 AM
All of us, the gaggle (or is it troop) of bloggers, should insist that Carl should cough up on his commitment and produce the ripe banana he claims he always has in his hand.
Carl should be on notice that every person he sees approaching him could be a member of the gaggle (or is it troop) and is going to ask for a ripe banana.
That way he actually has to walk with a bunch (or is it a hand) of ripe bananas for the rest of his life or be exposed as being the biggest windbag on the island.
CaribbeanLionesse // April 22, 2008 at 11:53 AM
Hmm…I don’t think it’s quite fair to just sum it up as ‘he’s archaic, he doesn’t get it’. Nor do I think that he needs you to invite him to come to the blogosphere, since from his article, he’s already been up in hey. :p
Did you notice the part of the article where he said “Web logs or blogs, in other places serve useful purposes for discussion and elucidation. People generally deal with principles and issues, not one another.”
He also indicated that he does know of what he speaks when he pointed out that he went on some of the blogs last year “suggesting some decorum, some decency.”
So I do not think it is the technology he takes issue with, it is the tone, the disregard for facts and the hiding.
Chris Halsall // April 22, 2008 at 12:41 PM
CaribbeanLionesse wrote “I do not think it is the technology he takes exception to, it is the tone, the disregard for facts and the hiding.”
May I please bring forward, as a counter argument, the long-running columns in The Nation “Pudding & Souse” and “Flying Fish & Cou Cou”.
Who writes these columns? Is the tone appropriate for a professional forth estate? Where are the facts?
If Mr. Moore’s argument is simply the tone, the facts (which are actually often presented) and the “hiding” on the Blogs, then he should take equal exception to these two columns.
I completely agree with Mr. Moore that anonymous posting can result in a very low signal to noise ratio. However, it cannot be denied that there is still signal. It simply means that the “receivers” (read: readers) must filter out the noise.
Further, it cannot be refuted that what appears in “the press” here is filtered not based on the public need and right to know, but on the economic constraints facing any traditional printed or broadcasting media (read: advertising revenue).
This is where the “new technology” comes in. *Anyone* can publish content on the Internet for free; or very, very little cost. Heck, they can even be paid for it. The start-up costs are *far* lower, and no trees die in the process. (As an aside, how much newsprint does Barbados indigenously produce? How much do we recycle? Foreign Currency Exchange, anyone?)
At the end of the day, the Barbados Blogs are successful simply and only because they are filling a demand. Basic economic theory.
The traditional forth estate need to realize this, and either adapt, or die.
Carl Moore // April 22, 2008 at 2:12 PM
One person–CaribbeanLionesse–out of 56 so far has bothered to read and understand what I wrote last Sunday. What does this tell us about our ability to comprehend?
For a moment, it looked like John possessed a little humour and just as I was about the send him a ripe banana he spoilt it by calling me a windbag. No banana for you now, John!
But seriously, folks, life is short. Too short. Only the other day I was 28! Loosen up a bit, nuh!
You’ve called me every thing except a lesbian; and it may yet happen before the week is over. A kindly researcher has even traced my lineage all the way back to Ossie Moore. I could’ve confirmed that for him.
Brace yourselves for some more lashes—the thin-skinned, humourless ones among you, I mean.
I’m so sorry I write only every other week; I would’ve lashed you with a hand of green bananas as soon as next Sunday. By May 3 those bananas will be ripe and there will be enough for all who consider themselves monkeys.
Thinking people like CaribbeanLionesse and Chris Halsall need not apply. Adrian Hinds will receive as many as he can eat, since he has done the most talking.
And Chris, I’ve criticised The Nation about their wasteful use of newsprint every Saturday with Puddin ‘n’ Souse and Cou-cou and Flyin’ fish in a letter as far back as April 25, 1993—exactly 15 years ago this Friday.
I abhor ALL forms of gossip–in The Nation, on the blogs, anywhere. It’s counter-productive, infantile and silly.
The letter to which I refer appears in my new book due out in July. It’s titled “The Moore the Merrier: 50 Years of Letters to the Editor”.
I have just put out the CD version for only $20 a copy. Buy one from muh, nuh!
Take it easy. Keep the blood pressure under control, folks.
Yardbroom // April 22, 2008 at 2:34 PM
Monkeys can’t read!
Tell me Why // April 22, 2008 at 2:47 PM
Carl, statistics regarding the 56 people who criticised you are unimportant. Maybe the silent voices of the over 250,000 citizens will be on your side. I am on your side regarding the attacks, insults, innuendos, the vicious lies that we see on the blogs. I am annoyed when commenters disrespect the same officials we placed in office. I am annoyed when vile words are used accompanied by personal threats against the person. To tell you the truth, I do enjoy the blogs because you will always find articles with keen debaters.
Anyway, I am on your side my long time friend.
Chris Halsall // April 22, 2008 at 3:25 PM
Mr. Moore.
In your latest post to the online forum “Barbados Underground” (isn’t free speech wonderful?) you have singled myself and CaribbeanLionesse out as “thinking people”.
Thank you for your kind words. However, while I cannot speak for CaribbeanLionesse, where I come from this is called “blowing sunshine up your ass”. And I hope you’ll forgive me for this, but I don’t swing that way…
You have claimed that except for CaribbeanLionesse, none of us have “bothered to read and understand what [you] wrote last Sunday”.
Just in case anyone has not read and fully understood your language, let me please provide a link to the (online) version of same:
http://bararchive.bits.baseview.com/archive_detail.php?archiveFile=./pubfiles/bar/archive/2008/April/20/Editorial/56603.xml&start=0&numPer=20&keyword=Carl+Moore§ionSearch=&begindate=1%2F1%2F1994&enddate=12%2F31%2F2008&authorSearch=&IncludeStories=1&pubsection=&page=&IncludePages=1&IncludeImages=1&mode=allwords&archive_pubname=Daily+Nation%09%09%09
In the spirit of good conduct, let us refrain from radiating negative comments on the pathetic formatting in the linked page… However, may I please suggest that perhaps you might ask your editors to understand where a paragraph ends (hint: it is generally only after a period, and not in the middle of a sentence…).
Moving forward, in the language of said article (of which I hold a copy of the printed version) you claim “This free-for-all has given rise to aberrations such as “citizen journalist”. All you need is a cellphone with a camera built in”.
From several dictionaries, the definition of “aberration” is roughly: “A deviation from the proper or expected course.”
So, coming full circle, one might conclude that the traditional forth estate (and, possibly, others) is/are having issue with the unexpected.
Please forgive me for this, but, frankly, deal with it….
Kindest regards to all.
Adrian Hinds // April 22, 2008 at 3:36 PM
CaribbeanLionesse // April 22, 2008 at 11:53 am
Hmm…I don’t think it’s quite fair to just sum it up as ‘he’s archaic, he doesn’t get it’. Nor do I think that he needs you to invite him to come to the blogosphere, since from his article, he’s already been up in hey. :p
Did you notice the part of the article where he said “Web logs or blogs, in other places serve useful purposes for discussion and elucidation. People generally deal with principles and issues, not one another.”
He also indicated that he does know of what he speaks when he pointed out that he went on some of the blogs last year “suggesting some decorum, some decency.”
So I do not think it is the technology he takes issue with, it is the tone, the disregard for facts and the hiding.
=================================
I will find the the posts that he speaks of, and let you see what his approach was then. He was as condescending and demeaning then as he is now, and he got his a2s kicked, as also occurred this time around.
…But what does the following really mean? and how truthful is it? How do you explain what are the two most popular columns in the Nationnews while holding fast to this statement that“Web logs or blogs, in other places serve useful purposes for discussion and elucidation. People GENERALLY deal with principles and issues, not one another.”
People generally deal with principles and issues, not one another,…..what a load uh mean a lie,…must be Carl Moore that said it.
Carl Moore // April 22, 2008 at 3:49 PM
Naughty Mr. Halsall:
I have no difficulty with where you’re blowing that sunshine. If you must use one of my bananas, please ensure that it’s a green one.
Can we talk now about how all of a sudden all across the world food is becoming scarce? That people in Haiti are eating mud cakes? What do you expect if you take food and turn it into petrol?
How are we in Barbados going to deal with these problems? Oil hit US$117 per barrel yesterday while many care-free Barbadians hold motor rallies every other weekend, driving gas-guzzlers through mud and kicking lots of dust in the quiet countryside, preventing other Barbadians from getting to church on Sunday mornings?
Uh-oh, here I go again, stirring up another hornet’s nest!
What do you call the people who engage in that foolishness? Please avoid using THAT “m” word! If you must, just call them motorists.
Adrian Hinds // April 22, 2008 at 3:57 PM
Carl Moore says:
Thinking people like CaribbeanLionesse and Chris Halsall need not apply. Adrian Hinds will receive as many as he can eat, since he has done the most talking.
=================================
I am not in the least fazed by your attempt to divide and conquer. I am not party to or in any grouping with your two A pupils that i would feel aggrieved for being left out, or afraid for being single out for what you may think is punishment. Bring it on.
You don’t abhor gossip, you abhor the truth, and will do anything to keep the truth a secret. One of those columns deals with the truth about politics in Barbados, and because libel threats are a real and present danger to the media houses in Barbados they resort to the kind of hidden message reporting in that column. Take this one for instance http://www.barbadosforum.com/index.php?s=&showtopic=2155&view=findpost&p=69173
Is this gossip? did these events not occur? why did the news media feel that they could not report on it in a clear and concise manner? and why can the Blogs do so? People like you will hardly ever get respect from me.
…..as to this late hour call of yours to lighten up, it is fun for me to cuss your angry, lying, failure of an a2s.
Isn’t it enough that one had to listen to your pompous commentry in the past? You have the gall to ask persons to now pay you, too once again tell us that we are beneath you? Sorry i will make sure to give Autie Olga 20.00 instead.
Chris Halsall // April 22, 2008 at 4:15 PM
Mr. Moore.
Please speak to and debate the issues which *you* have brought forward, and which we are discussing *here* and *now*.
If you cannot, than please have the decency of concede defeat.
Changing the topic is effectively the same.
Kindest regards.
Chris Halsall // April 22, 2008 at 4:18 PM
A correction to my last post, in geek speak: s/of/to/
Although I’m sure Mr. Moore would be able to bring the correction of this grammatical mistake forward in more mainstream terms…
Adrian Hinds // April 22, 2008 at 4:21 PM
Carl Moore says:
Can we talk now about how all of a sudden all across the world food is becoming scarce? That people in Haiti are eating mud cakes? What do you expect if you take food and turn it into petrol?
=================================
What do you mean by “take food and turn it into petrol? is this your regurgitation of the now popular but uninformed global sentiment that corn grown for ethanol production has contributed to the rising cost of food?
Carl Moore says:
How are we in Barbados going to deal with these problems? Oil hit US$117 per barrel yesterday while many care-free Barbadians hold motor rallies every other weekend, driving gas-guzzlers through mud and kicking lots of dust in the quiet countryside, preventing other Barbadians from getting to church on Sunday mornings?
=================================
What does one have to do with the other? Don’t the rally lovers have to pay the same price increase as everyone else? If your comments about Car racing vs. potential inconveniences of noise and access to the public is now open for us monkeys to genuinely discuss with you, it would hardly be a hornets nest that you would have open. If you were not so busy cussing the blogs you might have been aware of the many discussions us monkeys have had on the subject
Here is one : http://www.barbadosforum.com/index.php?showtopic=905&hl=rallying
Adrian Hinds // April 22, 2008 at 4:45 PM
Mr. Moore.
Please speak to and debate the issues which *you* have brought forward, and which we are discussing *here* and *now*.
If you cannot, than please have the decency of concede defeat.
Changing the topic is effectively the same.
Kindest regards.
=================================
So noted but let him think he has a new lease on life. Lets see if he has any depth of knowledge on the two subjects he choose to deflect with.
Chris Halsall // April 22, 2008 at 4:58 PM
Adrian Hinds wrote “Lets see if he has any depth of knowledge on the two subjects he choose to deflect with”.
If I May, and with all due respect, no.
The issue “on to the docket” is what he’s brought forward. This is the only issue which should be heard (and debated) by this court of public opinion.
If he wishes to bring other (unrelated) issues forward, he can do so at another time…
It is important that *this* case be heard, debated, and *judged* — here and now.
Kindest regards.
Yardbroom // April 22, 2008 at 4:59 PM
About your book Mr. Moore
I am now reading:
Negro With a Hat
The rise and Fall of Marcus Garvey and His dream of Mother Africa
By: Colin Grant
A well researched good read, people always think of Bob Marley when the words “mental slavery” are used, but it was Marcus Garvey who said:
” We are going to emancipate ourselves from mental slavery because whilst others might free the body, none but ourselves can free the mind.”
At Menelik Hall, Nova Scotia, 1937
In July with bananas as an inducement – perhaps only one – I might consider your “tome”.
John // April 22, 2008 at 5:24 PM
I am not sure if this is the same Carl Moore who suggested we look at reclaiming land in Barbados but here is an example of one of the past positions he has taken.
It is highly unlikely that in a newspaper setting that any one would take the time to respond to this suggestion yet on the blogs he was able to get cold hard facts fast and be directed to where he could get an overall view of the island of Barbados.
I was Anonymous.
Must have been on a diferent computer which didn’t have on John . Now my words would be gone …. as they would have been anonymous, inkeeping with Carls’s position!!
I do not know if Carl still feels that we should be reclaiming land as I no longer see him pushing this position.
Here I was thinking that I was able to in some small way to show him an alternative view and perhaps he accepted it, hence his silence.
I did not realise he was so offended by the lack of factual debate and abundance of gossip on the blogs and had walked off vex.
To return pushing an extreme position which does not appear to match reality does him no justice.
Here is the article from BFP.
July 26, 2006…1:25 pm
Reclaiming Land in Barbados… Why Not?
Jump to Comments
Carl Moore writes some ideas in the Nation News…
* Reclaim land and make Barbados’ land mass bigger. The Japanese do it all the time. We did it almost 50 years ago when we built the deep-water harbour and filled in 90 acres right out to Pelican Island.
Why not create more Barbados land from the sea? If our land is so valuable, sure.
Read the entire article at The Nation Post (link here)
3 Comments
Filed under Barbados, Environment, Island Life, Offshore Investments, Politics & Corruption
3 Comments
Jane
July 26, 2006 at 5:15 pm
We are already doing this to protect the coastline in some areas. This is well worth looking into.
Anonymous
July 27, 2006 at 7:49 am
Carl
Go look at Google Earth at the amount of land reclaimed for the deep water harbour back in 1960 or therabouts.
It is about 90 acres I am told.
The whole of Barbados is 106470 acres so this reclaimed land is pretty insignificant if not paltry when compared with the whole.
However, its importance is very high.
While on Google Earth, look at the quarries which dot the island and from which the material to reclaim land will probably come.
The amount of land to be created from the sea is of an insignificant amount and is only justified if its use can support its cost of production. The deep water harbour was built because it made economic sense to build it.
When Govt takes up 500 acres up at Apes Hill and rezones it golf and housing for the rich and famous, it is highly unlikely that we could then reclaim an equivalent amount of land from the sea that would replace what government has given up in our name.
Its cost per square foot would rise into the ether.
We need to accept what we have and find a balance with our natural environment. Colin Hudson often talked and demonstrated the footprint we need to sustain our lifestyle. It was several times the size of Barbados.
I think the message he tried to communicate was that we are out of balance with our natural environment.
Our ancestors found a balance that worked for them, we need to find one that works for us.
Why not encourage Bajan settlers to go to Guyana and take up the vast land resources of the interior.
CSME should be able to accommodate this.
Lex
December 18, 2007 at 6:46 pm
The interior in Guyana is lived in by Amerindians, it’s not uninhabited land waiting for you to exploit it.
no name // April 22, 2008 at 5:29 PM
Yardbroom // April 22, 2008 at 2:34 pm
Monkeys can’t read!
Thanks for that. On a lighter note. A true story.
I had an old friend who suggested placing newspapers in a large circle around the mango tree, with rocks to stop them blowing away, to stop the monkeys from eating all the mangoes. When I asked him why he thought this would deter the monkeys he told me that “monkeys can’t read”. It did work for a while.
no name // April 22, 2008 at 5:30 PM
Nation newspapers by the way.
John // April 22, 2008 at 6:07 PM
“I abhor ALL forms of gossip–in The Nation, on the blogs, anywhere. It’s counter-productive, infantile and silly.”
The Call in programmes are full of gossip and for a short time, a couple of hours a day people can “anonymously” call them and make a contribution.
Carl, you appeared on one, was it Sunday before last, where journalism was discussed.
It was carried almost blow by blow on the blogs.
No doubt you were peeved by the comments about the profession you love.
At the same time, look at the comments which are there for the record on the blogs and if you have a tape of Brasstacks, listen to it again.
Try reading in the newspapers about what happened when three senior journalists discussed their profession and then compare the content of the three sources, Newspapers, Tape and Blogs as a source of facts.
Seriously Carl, go to the record of the three sources of Brasstacks, Blogs, Audio Tape and the Printed Version of the Newspaper and tell us which one gives you the most factual content and which one was the most accessible.
This was an important program and deserves to be available to young aspiring journalists.
Remember that like me, there are not many who read the papers or listen to the radio.
I have no doubt when we read you again in what appears to be your favoured forum that you will complain that you have been called all manner of names on the blogs, …. apart from a lesbian …. and use it to support your position that personal attacks on blogs can be vile and scandalous.
I agree, but that’s part of life. “Sticks and stones ….”
Please note that I did not call you a windbag but suggested you would qualify to be considered as one if you don’t deliver on your commitment of one ripe banana to each mamber of the gaggle.
Don’t worry, other people make commitments and don’t deliver.
I can think of one, or is it several, such commitments which fall due in a couple of days and I know the goodly gentleman will not deliver.
You may be in exalted company soon.
Thewhiterabbit // April 22, 2008 at 6:11 PM
In a perfect world Mr. Moore would be entirely correct. Alas, Bim ain’t perfect, and much experience has shown how quickly, how easily, and how completely a person who exposes himself or herself to public scrutiny can be ruined by people in power, and that with complete impunity. There is no anonymity in this small society. The blogosphere is a free-market open economy in which anybody can offer any idea or perspective for sale. In such bazaar-like conditions the adage “caveat emptor” (buyer beware) applies. This writer once wrote something similar to Mr. Moore’s comments, but has subsequently seen the light and recanted the earlier stance. Notwithstanding, it will always be a mark of an educated commentator to proof what has been written in order to try to reduce as far as possible mistakes in grammar, punctuation, spelling, etc. A blog full of errors simply reduces the credibility of the offering. Unless the writer is attempting to communicate using the local edition of the language, errors indicate either a lack of education, or much more likely haste in writing and a lazy refusal to proof the blog. No spell checker used herein, but this writer likes to re-read what was written to make sure it says what was intended, at the very least.
Chris Halsall // April 22, 2008 at 7:04 PM
My apologies if I am now beating a dead horse…
But a dimension of this debate which has not been touched on is the Internet accessibility of content of important content here in Barbados. Specifically, the searchability of same.
Your author is a student of the empirical. Specifically, the reproducibility of results. Please let me present you with a series of Google queries that as of 2008.04.22 produced zero (0) results:
http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Awww.barbadosadvocate.com+halsall
http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Awww.barbadosadvocate.com+ftc
http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Awww.barbadosadvocate.com+bango
And yet, if one runs the following query (for “Cricket”), one receives many results (41, to be exact, as of 2008.04.22):
http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Awww.barbadosadvocate.com+cricket
This might be considered strange, considering that your author was regularly interviewed on telecoms issues this last year by the newspaper being queried, and (very briefly) had a column in same. A link to the search feature of the web-site itself would be provided, if one existed….
In today’s world, News is not relevant if it cannot be referred to online, months (and years) after publication, and from anywhere in the world.
The Blogs satisfy this benchmark. Do traditional newspapers?
John // April 22, 2008 at 8:14 PM
A name does not remove anonymity.
It is the lack of a statement of position through words and deeds that makes a person anonymous.
Any of the bloggers on this or any site are identifiable by the positions they take. they are not anonymous.
They courageously return and make their points day in and day out because it is who they are.
They use their handles because they chose them and are comfortable with them.
The Nazi regime attempted to reduce human beings to the level of the anonymity of a number in a concentration camp.
They failed.
Even those who died in silence spoke with a voice as clear and unmistakeable as those who fought and clung to life to the last.
Both made statements but neither are anonymous because we do not know their names.
They are remembered and will be remembered forever.
Carl Moore is no more anonymous than I am, or Hants, or Adrian Hinds or Adrian Loveridge or whoever’s handle you choose to call.
I believe each of us consistently take positions and blows for these positions and try our best to clearly state our positions as best we can.
Spelling, grammar …. big deal.
We are all identifiable through our words, our opinions and our positions.
The forum we have chosen to come to is available 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. We make mistakes, we apologise, we rib one another, we value one another’s opinions.
We are part of something living, I think we enjoy it.
I always look to see who said what and love reading criticism or validation of any position I take.
I have no problem in changing a position I take and admitting I am wrong once the error of my ways is shown to me.
That is life.
I love it.
Adrian Hinds // April 22, 2008 at 9:34 PM
John sometimes I think you are me and i am you. :D which reminds me of a poem I learnt in primary school and that has stuck with me.
Adrian Hinds // April 22, 2008 at 10:11 PM
Thewhiterabbit // April 22, 2008 at 6:11 pm
In a perfect world Mr. Moore would be entirely correct. Alas, Bim ain’t perfect, and much experience has shown how quickly, how easily, and how completely a person who exposes himself or herself to public scrutiny can be ruined by people in power, and that with complete impunity. There is no anonymity in this small society. The blogosphere is a free-market open economy in which anybody can offer any idea or perspective for sale. In such bazaar-like conditions the adage “caveat emptor” (buyer beware) applies. This writer once wrote something similar to Mr. Moore’s comments, but has subsequently seen the light and recanted the earlier stance. Notwithstanding, it will always be a mark of an educated commentator to proof what has been written in order to try to reduce as far as possible mistakes in grammar, punctuation, spelling, etc. A blog full of errors simply reduces the credibility of the offering. Unless the writer is attempting to communicate using the local edition of the language, errors indicate either a lack of education, or much more likely haste in writing and a lazy refusal to proof the blog. No spell checker used herein, but this writer likes to re-read what was written to make sure it says what was intended, at the very least.
=================================
I certainly do envy your ability to spell well and to be grammatically correct at all times. I must admit that beyond these abilities your contributions doesn’t inform me of much. It’s me, I am just an uneducated guy trying to learn meaningful and practical things.
David // April 22, 2008 at 11:53 PM
We have read all the comments which evoked laughter but equally, food for thought. What is clear is the view from the two camps. The Carl Moore’s view which is critical of the blogs and their role, and those who feel the blogs are filling a void which represents dissatisfaction with traditional media.
What we have to go on if we use trends in the USA and other markets suggests that the momentum is on the side of the blogs. What it also suggests, players like Moore who elect to fight us will in all likelihood lose. But of course this is his right if he wants history to record him on the wrong side of this issue.
Whereas it took Mr. Moore all week to fashion his 650 word masterpiece which appeared in the Sunday Sun just gone. It took the BU household about 1 hour to write this 1000+ blog in rebuttal. This is why we love the spontaneity which it offers. The use of the word difference instead of deference was a slip and one which we observe in mainstream press on a daily basis. In fact they have established a system of rotating public editors to address the problem.
We don’t disagree with commenters who expect a reasonable standard of grammar and presentation by the blogger mainly, as oppose to commenters. We however will not be sidetracked by what is a red herring argument. Until such time as our visits/hits start to go South and feedback from the BU family signal that we have overstayed our welcome in the blogosphere, we will soldier on with the grace of God behind us.
Yardbroom // April 23, 2008 at 5:54 AM
There is a false presumption that the blogs and the print media perform the same function, they do not. The relationship between them is that they disseminate news, opinions and ideas but that is about it.
The immediacy of presentation and spontaneity of the blogs, cannot be matched by the print media but they both have important roles to play. So there is no doubt, I have never subscribed to personal attacks or malicious asides on any medium, so we can take that as understood.
On a different tack, there are many reasons why commenters prefer to be anonymous – or use pseudonyms – and Barbadians are fully aware of how their society operates, perhaps there is a wish this was not the case…but so it is.
I have always felt that the message or idea is more important than the proper use of grammar or punctuation on the blogs – I could be wrong – but my reasoning is that everyone should be encouraged to express a view. That they have not had a university education should be of no account, and have repeatedly advocated that position.
I recently heard an exchange on a popular call in radio programme, an ordinary person – in terms of ability to articulate – being brow beaten and bullied into submission, because he was not able to express his deeply felt position with the skill of the chairman. In that instance the argument was not won on the strength of the position or ideas that underpinned it, but in this case the ability to bully into submission.
In a well conducted programme of that kind, the chairman teases out opinions and assist the expression of ideas, even those he is not in agreement with, providing they are not slanderous or malicious, to give balance and a reflection of the public mood.
I hope the blogs never degenerate into a kind of elite cabal.
The problem we have had in Barbados is that “some” people believe they have a “divine” right to act for, but over the heads of the ordinary citizens, it is a flaw which prevents the average person from being heard and properly represented in news transmission, a fate I hope the blogs will not succumb to.
David // April 23, 2008 at 7:02 AM
Yardbroom you have painted the picture for all who want to see. Much of the criticism about the role of Bajan Blogosphere has been misunderstood because of a misunderstanding of the roles we are playing and should be allowed to play by traditional media.
Watching CNN and other US networks we see many examples of how blogs have been integrated into mainstream. What Mr. Moore and others don’t appreciate is the journey to where they have gotten.
We fully endorse this comment made at the breakfast table and was cognizant of the ramification of not using the Spellchecker.
Adrian Hinds // April 23, 2008 at 9:09 AM
A bajan language maven in action. note his facial expression when he says “duh can’t spell”, does this represent a person who is genuinely concern about bad grammar and spelling? Or someone who’s intent is to be simply condescending? Why would he go on national television to attempt embarrassment of his fellow Lawyers? Does such action help his cause? again is his cause genuine?
Watch and decide
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIYm6BbjcZs
Thank you Yardbroom, I have been saying the same for as long as there were bajans meeting on the internet.
John // April 23, 2008 at 9:49 AM
The wonderful thing about belittling the students or lawyers of today is that you get an instant ego boost.
You come from the past when students/lawyers were good, ergo you were/are good.
Many people have problems with spelling and grammar and punctuation and syntax but in conversation none of these win an argument on their own or make fundamental changes in society.
It is the ability to put across a point and to get people to believe in your point through your words and actions that is more important.
As a boy and growing up I interacted with old agricultural labourers. Many of them had no formal education and perhaps could not even read or write (that never came up or mattered) but they made lasting impressions on me because of the wisdom and calm they possessed.
Having said that I can also think of a couple of people who in adition to possesing that calm and wisdom also could use the language expertly.
All were/are exceptional people.
I am more worried that students are less and less being exposed to older, cooler, wiser heads because those heads get fewer and fewer.
I believe that this exposure lays the foundations for education to work and have maximum effect.
Most surfaces need to be primed before paint is applied.
ROBOT // April 23, 2008 at 1:23 PM
carl moore
i thought he would have noticed my comments and respond but he appears not have noticed me
i could cry
notice me nuh carl !
notice muh nuh
boo hoo hoo ; boo hoo hoo !
Chris Halsall // April 23, 2008 at 2:23 PM
Transcribing from The Nation, 2008.04.20. Page 6A (the “above fold” column sharing the same page as Mr. Moore’s…)
Title: Facing up to bitter pill.
Opening paragraph: “IT IS CLEAR the Government had no option but to prescribe and also administer a dose of bitter medicine in response to accelerating increases in the cost of oil on the international market.
…
Closing two paragraphs: “While it is understandable that our democracy encourages much debate about changes, pleasant or otherwise, we are now at the point of having a reality check.
“It is time for tightening belts all around
This language is unsigned. It does not appear to be available on the Internet.
Mr. Moore: If you are still reading this thread, please speak to who wrote this language. The page is titled “Comment”, with the “Sunday Sun” masthead in the upper-right corner, listing your publisher, editors and managers.
Please, speak to anonymity, and how it is unique to the Blogs. Please provide a link to the online version of this language.
Kindest regards.
Johnny-cum-lately // April 25, 2008 at 9:30 PM
As a blogger I am shivering in my boots; Carl’s threats of more attacks in his Sunday wasted space have me almost wetting my pants.
My dear Carl, surf blogs anywhere – NY Daily News; Newsday: NY Times; Daily Mail in London – and you will read the same things you denounce on BFP and BU.
As far as I know Sir, you dont hold the patent to journalism.
I want to see the experts like you giving us more analytical features in our two daily flying-fish wrappers. I am tires reading about house fires, crime, and which Minister says what.
Gladstone Holder tried, what about you?
Lets get too it Mr Journalism……..or schhhhhhhhhh..SFCBDOS will get an official complaint from me
Karia // April 25, 2008 at 10:17 PM
I have known Carl Moore as a young adult while living in Barbados. The Carl Moore that was known to us was always a very progressive and calm individual. He and others survived the Tom Adams regime where verbalizing ones opinion costs them their jobs and even their wives.
Is Carl Moore going senile in his later years. He knows the casualties of so call free speech around the world. Get with the program Carl.
David // April 27, 2008 at 10:08 AM
To our friend Carl Moore, we had a browse of the Nation and we can’t find your article anywhere. What happened?
Zachary // April 29, 2008 at 7:33 AM
After all the long talk, I was also looking forward to reading Carl Moore’s promised piece. Can’t find it.
Carl Moore // April 29, 2008 at 1:03 PM
Dear David and Zachary:
The column is every other week. I said so in the first one on the 6th of April. Meantime, have a quiet week.
Be patient; you can have another go at me on Sunday.
To Maria: I didn’t find the Tom Adams era all that turbulent. Politicians have never scared me. I don’t see them doing it now. I clashed with a National Hero on national TV in ‘72 and took good care of myself.
Senile? Not so far.
I’ve managed to have the same great lady for a wife for the past 36 years—pre and post Tom!
Take care.
Anonymous // April 29, 2008 at 1:48 PM
Karia // April 25, 2008 at 10:17 pm
I have known Carl Moore as a young adult while living in Barbados. The Carl Moore that was known to us was always a very progressive and calm individual. He and others survived the Tom Adams regime where verbalizing ones opinion costs them their jobs and even their wives.
Is Carl Moore going senile in his later years. He knows the casualties of so call free speech around the world. Get with the program Carl.
=================================
Karia most people remember the highlights of their past, pray tell what was the reason for remembering this Carl Moore????
Adrian Hinds // April 29, 2008 at 1:57 PM
David // April 27, 2008 at 10:08 am
To our friend Carl Moore, we had a browse of the Nation and we can’t find your article anywhere. What happened?
=================================
Wunnuh got wuk or want some. The last three articles written by this person that i could can recall were to my mind self advocacy, void of any real substance, at least any that i could share. One dealt with cussing people for going to Britton’s hill in the aftermath of the cave collapse, Another dealt with increasing Barbados land mass by reclaiming land from the sea, and to which John make light weight of the argument, – to this day i see no reason not believe that he was joking around, and finally this recent piece cussing the blogs. I understand that when reference is made of Barbadian Journalist the name Carl Moore does not readily come to mind, hence articles from him that are at the core, cries for personal recognition. Does it mean that much to you? Try a little less of cussing people.
Anonymous // April 29, 2008 at 3:00 PM
All the best to you Mr Moore. While I may not agree with some of your comments about the blogs, I do not see the need for the vitriol poured out on you. I admire and support your anti-noise pollution campaign along with your efforts to make Barbados a less coarse society.
On the matter of grammer and spelling, I fully understand that on a blog it is the message being communicated that should be focussed on. However we should be concerned about the state of the use of English in Barbados. Yesterday, a child recited a poem about Rt. Excellent E.W. Barrow at the ceremony at Independence Square. I thought it was a good poem but it was titled “IT is my hero”! What disturbs me is that this child was probably under the supervision of a teacher!
Adrian Hinds // April 29, 2008 at 3:54 PM
Anonymous // April 29, 2008 at 3:00 pm
I do not see the need for the vitriol poured out on you.
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Of course you would not see it. It is convenient not too, after all a monkey so called, cannot complain, and probably would not have need to so do, if they could, but we were called such and you know what, we can retort. To my mind there isn’t any differences between the two of you. You are both anonymous and not worth the trouble. :D
…But be honest, did the poem’s titled so recited, disturbed you? what did you do about it? anything? or is it most likely that you are now pretending some disturbance when in fact you are fain giddy with pleasure at been granted an opportunity to be so righteous in your criticism?
Carl Moore // April 30, 2008 at 8:09 AM
Thanks, Anonymous. Let’s leave this poltergeist alone. There is no need for him to identify himself as a monkey more than once.
He’s done so on this thread about 15 times in the past 10 days. What an addictive quidnunc!
I’ve run out of bananas. A friend gave me some mangoes yesterday. If he can’t improve his silly graffiti, I hope, at least, I can get him to improve his diet.
I’m coming at him and all those who have identified themselves as monkeys one more time … on Sunday.
This time around, I hope they’ll make passing contact with what I WRITE and not who or what I am. That’s not the issue here.
Take care now.
Adrian Hinds // April 30, 2008 at 9:03 AM
The first sentence of the SPJ ethics code sounds the call quite well: “Members of the society of Professional Journalists believe that PUBLIC ENLIGHTENMENT IS THE FORERUNNER OF JUSTICE AND THE FOUNDATION OF DEMOCRACY.
Taken on their face, the four major points of the Ethics Code are sound advice for journalists and a good yardstick for the public to use in sizing up reporting and conduct of journalists and media organizations.
*Seek truth and report it.
*Minimize harm.
*Act Independently.
*Be accountable.
If is possible in this new culture of choice to find journalism that is relevant, serves the greater good and is executed with CLARITY and ethical provenance absent of PARTISANSHIP, or AGENDAS, other than the interest of the public. IT WILL COME IN ALL MANNER OF VOICES AND FORMATS.
On behalf of journalists everywhere, we ask America to keep looking.
Clint Brewer is the president of the Society of Professional Journalist. To learn more about SPJ and its code of ethics, visit http://WWW.SPJ.ORG.
This obvisiouly does not apply to Carl Moore. :D
Adrian Hinds // April 30, 2008 at 9:48 AM
Carl Moore // April 30, 2008 at 8:09 am
Thanks, Anonymous. Let’s leave this poltergeist alone. There is no need for him to identify himself as a monkey more than once.
He’s done so on this thread about 15 times in the past 10 days. What an addictive quidnunc!
I’ve run out of bananas. A friend gave me some mangoes yesterday. If he can’t improve his silly graffiti, I hope, at least, I can get him to improve his diet.
I’m coming at him and all those who have identified themselves as monkeys one more time … on Sunday.
This time around, I hope they’ll make passing contact with what I WRITE and not who or what I am. That’s not the issue here.
Take care now.
=================================
It is sad to here a black man refer to another black person as a Monkey, but then again the person making the disparaging remark, is a known failure name Carl Moore. I would not be surprise, if at some point in his miserable existence, he engaged in the purchase of and application of Ambi skin bleaching cream in the silly attempt of fading away his blackness. :D but at last even at that he was doomed to failure.
…..So pray tell, will I be a “Poltergeist” in your highly marketed Sunday article or will i be for once accepted as “Adrian Hinds” albeit a Monkey?. This will no doubt be the widest read posting of yours, and this would have come about like most useless things that miraculously attracts high interest from consumers,…. due exclusively to marketing. Uh mean why would someone read your words on their own?
…..Would you like this quidnunc to shut up?….. sorry, not even if it were possible for you to ask nicely.
Yardbroom // April 30, 2008 at 10:26 AM
How very sad!
When a supposedly “learned” black man takes it upon himself, to use an epithet in reference to other black people in the main -monkeys- a word often used by other races to disparage black people – in Barbados of all places – there is nothing more that will shed “light” which can be said.
Adrian Hinds // April 30, 2008 at 10:56 AM
Carl Moore doesn’t know the fibre and backbone that i have. I live and operate in a civil world and therefore have no need to fear anyone. Since he is using the mainstream media to lie about the blogs, I will petition the Nationnews to give me an opportunity to respond to him in that format. I don’t expect them (nationnews) to honour my request, but i will be put of from asking. Far from it for me to – as he would want to suggest, hide behind my words on the blogs. Whenever next i am in Barbados I will look him up so that he can see and give to this monkey the “licks”, bananas and mangoes that he so thinks he has been dishing out. In fact i will look him up in http://www.barbadosyp.com, call him, and give him a real opportunity to tell-me-like-he-thinks-it-is. :D
Adrian Hinds // April 30, 2008 at 11:11 AM
Carl Moore has not been a friend of freedom of expression, from Ordinary Barbadians. It is of interest that in 2006 he attacked the call in programs, only to find PERSONAL utility for them in 2008, where he use the opportunity to bemoan the blogs in the same fashioned he did the call in programs. Will the Blogs capitulate and welcome him as did Radio? should they?
================================
“In August, Carl Moore, a retired journalist and broadcaster, and former chairman of the Barbados Broadcasting Authority, wrote a commentary published by Caribbean Net News bemoaning the explosion in the number of talk radio shows on Barbados radio. Moore wrote that “the daily diet of talk radio, while allowing the citizenry to talk back, has become a free-for-all, and has resulted in a laziness at radio stations where the function of ‘producer’ entails deciding who goes on the air and what’s to be edited out or ‘dumped’, thereby saving the station a possible lawsuit.” He suggested that while talk radio had firmly established itself as a worthwhile component of the democratic process, “we could do with 50% less talk, and more structured programming designed to educate, inform and entertain.”
http://www.freemedia.at/cms/ipi/freedom_detail.html?country=/KW0001/KW0202/KW0035/
Carl Moore // April 30, 2008 at 5:13 PM
Mr. Hinds, for goodness sake, give me something stimulating to respond to. Are there any issues we can discuss like adults on this medium?
I said almost two weeks ago that the amusing thing about the Internet is that, at any given time, one does not really know to whom one is talking. It could well be a monkey. I even coined my own phrase: “a gaggle of monkeys”, borrowed from the geese.
For goodness sake, man, how do you translate that to mean you?
True, we all belong to the genus known as primate, but aren’t you stretching it a bit to extrapolate from the foregoing paragraph that you, Adrian “homo sapiens” Hinds, are a monkey? Come on, man, behave like an adult.
Over the past week I was called dinosaur, irrelevant, idiot, maverick, loser, failure, racist, Uncle Tom, a 1960s version of Peter Wickham, old fogey; everything except a paedophile.
I even found myself in the illustrious company of Sir Conrad Reeves, the first black Chief Justice of Barbados who died in 1902. And I said: “Ah, at last someone thinks I’m a distinguished jurist!” I was disappointed as I read on to find that I am a negrocrat, like poor old Sir Conrad was, according to Adrian Hinds.
One helpful researcher traced my lineage all the way back to Ossie Moore. I could’ve saved him all that time digging around in my background and confirmed for him that Ossie and I are first cousins.
When you step into an ants’ nest, expect to be bitten. Interfere wth me at the personal level and I will mall-sprig yuh, Adrian.
Give me something sensible to reply to in a week’s time. Take time to do some thinking before you write gobbledygook.
Almost everyone looking in or participating on this website must’ve noticed by now that I’m having some fun here. But enough is enough.
We’re wasting bandwidth, as well as our time and energy. I’m off to Brighton Beach for a walk on the sand. Get up from the computer wherever you are and do something similar.
Life is short. Don’t take yourself too seriously.
Out.
Adrian Sobers // April 30, 2008 at 5:16 PM
It good to see other people who have a more realitic position about blogs.
=================================
Don’t see blogging as a threat but a help to Press
Published on: 4/29/08.
“Suggest to an old-school journalist that Weblogs have anything to do with journalism and you’ll be met with howls of derision.” – J.D. Lasica, Blogs And Journalism Need Each Other.
J.D. LASICA’S entire article is worth reading. One cannot help but notice that each time blogging is spoken of by some of the established media practitioners, they are almost always cast in a negative light. An understandable, yet unbalanced position.
This is not just a local phenomenon.
“They are opinionated, ranting, often incoherent and frequently biased with little regard for accuracy or balance. They are also compellingly addictive and threatening to emerge as a new brand of journalism, writes Jody Raynsford, “If you are part of the blogging community, you are also part of the blogosphere – presumably with its own weather system.” How wonderfully clever.
Love them or hate them, blogs are here to stay (comments and all). Right alongside Facebook, YouTube, GodTube, MySpace, LinkedIn and other social networking sites and services.
The enviable Chris “he-could-go-all-the-way” Berman of Sportscenter fame once said that there are no foolish questions, only foolish people who ask questions.
Here are a couple: Will blogs kill the old media? Probably not anymore than Amazon’s kindle device will “kill” books. Is blogging journalism? No one ever claimed it was.
Blogs should be seen as complimenting rather than threatening the traditional media establishment. The Media Bloggers Association (www.mediabloggers.org ), describe themselves as, “…supporting the development of ‘blogging’ or ‘citizen journalism’ as a distinct form of media; and helping to extend the power of the Press, with all the rights and responsibilities that entails, to every citizen.”
They adhere to the following values: honesty, fairness and accuracy; transparency; accountability and trust; respect for the privacy of private citizens. Especially interesting is the “note on anonymity”.
I will let J. D. Lasica have the last word: “The vast majority of media companies have missed the boat so far, and readers are turning to expert amateurs, people with a deep knowledge about a niche subject, and others with a flair for writing or interesting stories to tell – hundreds of thousands of bloggers who have become part of the media ecosystem.
If the news media chooses to ignore it, it’ll continue to lose a chance to connect with readers on an intimate daily basis. And they’ll become a bit less relevant with each passing day.”
– ADRIAN SOBERS
David // April 30, 2008 at 5:58 PM
It is regretable that Carl Moore persists on selecting convenient commentary from BU to support his rant that blogs have no place in the universe of information flow.
We have resisted up to now to respond to his position which other markets have already shown has no credence. The Bajan blogosphere is in its nascent stage and at this point we have decided to categorize Carl Moore’s opinion as feedback and leave it right there.
Adrian Hinds // April 30, 2008 at 7:43 PM
Somehow Carl Moore thinks that i am writing here for his pleasure, or that i need his permission to stop. :D
ha ha ha ha Loser, failure, Modern day Conrad Reeves the self confess Negrocrat, and a black man who takes pleasure in making disparaging remarks about blacks to blacks are labels that i can and have substantiated. I have not extrapolate from anything that i am a monkey, I have however truthfully link your “gaggle of monkeys, comment to the earlier title of your last article “give them a ripe banana” and to which you justified this linkage by offering me/us as many bananas and now mangoes as we can eat. You stand rightfully accused of making disparaging associations, familiar with racists. You are not the only one having fun, as i have said before it is fun for me to cuss you and point out the ugly truth about your comments that you may have thought were well hidden. Sweet! :D
I have absolutely no fear of you and no biting that you maybe capable of, so your maul-springing i will have to endure.
I can sit at a computer and type as many as ten replies in ten minutes in fact that is what i do almost everyday as i hardly have the time to devout more, in one sitting.
I am not even going to reply to your rouse about exercise.
John // May 1, 2008 at 12:11 AM
Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me.
I really don’t mind being called a monkey because sometimes that is just what I am.
Carl, I realise that you are sensitive about the “L ” word but I came across this story which I found amusing.
Adrian Hinds // May 1, 2008 at 9:03 AM
John, an interesting article. The things i learn on this Blog. :D
I had discarded an entire people, simply becuase i did not care for the lifstyle difine by the word Lesbian.
…..The blogs serving to educate, what says you Carl Moore? or is this not good enough since you are not the teacher? I know it’s all about you. :D
John // May 1, 2008 at 11:26 AM
Adrian
I know this is pushing the envelope but next time you picture the Leader of the Opposition in your mind, take a deep breath, control your Blood Pressure and just think of her as possibly having Greek ancestry.
Nobody knows for sure about these things and very often DNA testing is required.
Carl
There are some people, both men and women, who may actually be willing to fight and die for the honour of being known as a Lesbian.
You obviously don’t have any Greek ancestry, at least that you are willing to admit.
There is a very interesting project where DNA testing can tell what paths our ancestors followed before we became who we are.
I plan to get mine tested and will also be looking to see if I have Greek ancestry.
Keep walking with those Bananas and Mangoes as I will be expecting mine next time I see you.
Hopefully by then I will have found out if I am part Greek.
Adrian Hinds // May 1, 2008 at 11:58 AM
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha LOL John you are the best. :D now i will have to found out if the Island of Lesbos offers honorary citizen status to anyone, and see if I can get such a title confer to Mia, …hope that that this lawsuit fails and i will be able to legitimately call her a citizen of Lesbo. :D until then she is not right?
….But John even if your ancestry turns out to be part Greek, to Carl Moore that just makes you “part Greek Monkey” it better not show that you have lineage to the island of Lesbos. :D
…Carl what would that make him? :D
David // May 1, 2008 at 2:08 PM
Some amazing discussion going on under several of the blogs here Carl Moore, e.g Dr. Robinson’s submission, issues about concern on the East and west coast of Barbados and others. We have searched for a comment from you but can’t seem to find a single one.
John // May 2, 2008 at 8:38 PM
Adrian
…. a proud Lesbian of course!!
I notice the dead tree edition carried the story today.
Adrian Hinds // May 3, 2008 at 8:01 AM
John // May 2, 2008 at 8:38 pm
Adrian
…. a proud Lesbian of course!!
I notice the dead tree edition carried the story today.
================================
Hi John:
what story would that be???? I don’t have access to the dead tree edition in Rhode Island, and the online skeleton of it has not being updated.
…Are you referring to Carl Moore’s 2nd episode,… “Of Blogs and Gaggles of Monkeys??
John // May 3, 2008 at 9:25 AM
The Nation carried the article on the island of Lesbos and the court case!!
Perhaps his friends at the Nation are having a laugh at him or else they are trying to show Bajans that it is ok to be called a Lesbian.
Tomorrow is the day for his next article where he has promised to destroy us disrespectful, ill mannered louts.
Yardbroom // May 4, 2008 at 5:52 AM
I waited expecting “more”, but alast there was nothing there.
I have never bothered too much about trying to please – because those whose interest I consider paramount, might not be able to afford a computer… but I hope I write the truth.
We have a few people in Barbados who believe they are of a higher order; how dare others, who they deem inferior have the audacity to challenge their views. To confront them in an aside is unthinkable, but to do so on an open forum is tantamount to declaring war, by your actions you are seen as a termagant.
Previously some had influence in media outlets ,and were able to bin opinions and ideas contrary to what they believed… or perhaps promulgated.
Now, in seeking to uplift themselves and squat on higher ground they have metaphorically embraced the whip, mantle and terminology of former oppressors. It indicates how far they have mentally tried to distance themselves from kin, in so doing they have torn themselves from an umbilical cord, they swim in the fetid blood of their own.
When the question is asked why after so many years the situation in Barbados is as it is. The reverbation of this question rings like an echo in a canyon and the ring of the echo explains why we are what we are, and even today we are not “masters” of our destiny despite our massive percentage of the population.
Why? the reason simply is, some think they are of us but not “really” of us, while others laugh at us, as we dissipate our energies in molasses and mud, dare I say it we have done it for a long time.
Often the abundance we read in the print media here, gives few ocassions for reflection, we read, bin and move on there is no need for quiet contemplation on the ideas, or the desire to change things, we simply go marching on, but the view as we peep repeatedly from the corner of an eye, indicates we are going nowhere.
“How happy is he born and taught
That serveth not another’s will;
Whose armour is his honest thought
And simple truth his unmost skill!”
Sir Henry Wotton, Character of Happy Life
David // May 4, 2008 at 7:45 AM
Here is the link to the Part II Carl Moore article. We read it and there was emptiness:-). This is the extent to which we will highlight his failed attempt to critique the Bajan Blogosphere. As we expected he and the Nation were cowards and did not refer to our website by name. We observed however that he was careful to cite the other works he referenced with great clarity. They continue to bury their heads in the sand.
Bimbro // May 4, 2008 at 9:22 AM
David, did u expect me to read all dah. If the f***er does n’t know what a blog is then let him go and find out before posting trash (him). I’m all in favour of a campaign against excessive, noise pollution but to criticise the blogs which help to secure our freedoms in our own country – the man deserves a public flogging!
permres // May 4, 2008 at 10:08 AM
The man is so out-of-touch. I am 66 years old, now retired, and I had an attitude when I first started to read and join in on the forums and blogs in cyberspace.
I am a person who stuck with my profession (school-teaching) for nearly 40 years, and I re-trained myself several times to anticipate the changes which were being forced on us.
I still enjoy a good book, away from the computer screen, but to keep up-to-date the websites now provide all. Carl Moore should be citing some URLs, not books. Quoting from him, I think this is classic:
“The information business is being transformed into the sheer noise of a hundred million bloggers all simultaneously talking about themselves.”
Apart from the numbers, I think it describes beautifully what goes on in most rum-shops, therefore it describes exactly what we want to do! If some-one takes notice, all well and good, but at least we have a platform, to express our views, and not be told what to say by a bunch of sceptics (reference to his second book).
I try to hold on to what I think is worth saving from times gone by, but I have learnt to work with the present times. It took me two minutes to find this link for instance, by Googling “blogs forums cyberspace criticism” (or something like that).
http://theory.isthereason.com/?p=1502
Mr. Moore, in 2002 you say you got into this cyberspace business, which is at the same time as myself. As a journalist, you should be running your own blog by now, not wasting your time writing for the dead tree press.
John // May 4, 2008 at 11:09 AM
How do you stay anonymous and talk about yourself?
“The information business is being transformed into the sheer noise of a hundred million bloggers all simultaneously talking about themselves.”
What a letdown.
Anyway he has admitted that he isn’t giving away any more bananas which is to mind mind admitting he is a windbag.
He had his moment in time.
Adrian Hinds // May 4, 2008 at 11:20 AM
Good morning John.
permres // May 4, 2008 at 10:08 am
Mr. Moore, in 2002 you say you got into this cyberspace business, which is at the same time as myself. As a journalist, you should be running your own blog by now, not wasting your time writing for the dead tree press.
===============================
permres : Go to the nationnews online, search for Carl Moore, and you will see from the quality of his articles, he wouldn’t survive blogging.
Just two of his predictions:
May 25, 2007:
Chris Gayle, as spokesman for the West Indies cricket team, will be as injudicious with his mouth as he is with his bat.
———————————————–
January 16, 2006
DLP will have to splinter; I SEE only one way out of the present problems of the Democratic Labour Party: splinter off into two separate political organisations.
John // May 4, 2008 at 11:46 AM
Morning Adrian
I agree.
It is all about floating extreme positions to appear different from everybody else.
In the dead tree edition where responses can be cut and most people do not have the time to enter debate, he will survive and in his own eyes appear a giant.
He has a problem on the blogs where there is too much instantaneous and spontaneous diversity of opinion for an extreme position to survive if it hasn’t got merit.
He should stick with the noise control.
He has a point there which needs to be addressed and he can make a contribution and be different.
I notice he no longer mentions the L word anymore as the worst thing someone could call him!!
He must have read about its origins on the blogs. Maybe he does have Greek ancestry after all.
If there is only one thing the blogs do it is educate. I think he would have to admit he was educated in the discourse even if he does so grudgingly.
He now uses “child molester” as his bookend, a rather extreme apellation and not one in common use.
Straight talk // May 4, 2008 at 12:23 PM
Far from quoting from “The Cult of the Amateur” he should be addressing the cult of the professional journalist as exercised in Barbados.
No research, poor analysis and constant regurgitaion of verbatim press releases.
If his claim to investigative journalistic fame is going to be the revelation of Obama’s lineage, he as usual will be four or five weeks behind the local blogs.
Sorry to spoil your “scoop” Carl but just in case you missed it being reported by an amateur, Obama is 50% white, 43%Arab and a tad over 6% black ( thanks to his grandfather’s grandfather ).
If your solution for making Barbados quieter is the enforced dumbing down of your percieved inferiors, you have already lost the battle.
John // May 4, 2008 at 12:59 PM
… maybe he should spend some time on Tiger Woods’ lineage.
John // May 4, 2008 at 1:24 PM
I believe Carl’s objective must be to get himself banned from the blogs so he can complain in the dead tree editions.
His one simple position, which has merit, is that there should be more decorum in the discussion on the blogs.
But it is concealed in the noise he creates and not discussed on its merits.
I think that there is a reason for his approach, but he doesn’t realise that on the blogs there are quite a few smarter than even he believes himself to be.
The blogs are a close approximation to the real world and there is no protected environment like there is in the local dead tree editions.
We sink or swim based on the merit of our contribution which in many cases is namelessly made.
Nice try Carl. I suspect readership of the blogs has soared with your intervention.
Try reducing the noise level and lets discuss the signal, that is if you really want it discussed.
permres // May 4, 2008 at 2:43 PM
Thank you John, and I fully endorse this sentiment:
“His one simple position, which has merit, is that there should be more decorum in the discussion on the blogs. ”
The freedom and license of the Internet is abused, I think. It is not an RL conversation, and everything we type is recorded just like the printed media. In a well-regulated/moderated forum or blog, this problem is addressed.
If we do not like the way a particular site is run, then we simply leave. Well, that is my experience, anyway.
Chris Halsall // May 4, 2008 at 7:43 PM
Just for the record…
I would like to point out that in his latest missive published in our Gated Fourth Estate, Mr. Moore claims “I accurately predicted that [the Blogs] would reproduce my column in its entirety…”
I could be corrected on this point (there are several Blogs, after all), but to the best of my knowledge Mr. Moore’s language was never reproduced. There’s this wonderful thing called a hyper-link, and some (but, significantly, not all) of what’s printed on dead trees here is available online.
And while I’m radiating… Mr. Moore: I don’t know why you seem to feel you can claim “I was one of the first Barbadian bloggers in 2002″. Can you provide a link to any of your online blogging language circa 2002? A link via the “Way Back Machine” would suffice, if necessary.
For context, I’m quite sure a great many of us (or is it we?) predate you; for example, yours truly was first involved in this form of communications starting in 1986. At the time, it was the Bulletin Board System (BBS) scene — users would take turns dialing up to a modem at a phone number at 300 baud. Ahh, the memories….
How old we are; how long we’ve been doing this — all immaterial. What matters is what we’re doing, saying, and *achieving*, here and now.
Kindest regards to all.
John // May 4, 2008 at 11:43 PM
Chris Halsall // May 4, 2008 at 7:43 pm
Just for the record…
I would like to point out that in his latest missive published in our Gated Fourth Estate, Mr. Moore claims “I accurately predicted that [the Blogs] would reproduce my column in its entirety…”
I could be corrected on this point (there are several Blogs, after all), but to the best of my knowledge Mr. Moore’s language was never reproduced. There’s this wonderful thing called a hyper-link, and some (but, significantly, not all) of what’s printed on dead trees here is available online.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Perhaps the Editor at the Nation will correct this possible factual inaccuracy in Carl’s article today so it cannot be accused of misleading the public.
Based on his statement, the public might flock to the Blogs to read his article and bring the whole Internet down.
Carl should really have been more specific about which blogs reproduced his article in its entirety because alot of time will be spent searching.
Maybe a blogger copied it in verbatim in one of the over 100 comments but then he should correctly have given credit to the particular blogger to avoid hurting the feelings of that blogger.
Hopefully the Editor of the Nation will get to the bottom of this and act in accordance with the Nation’s stated policy of being accurate!!
Maybe the Nation needs to state which blogs reprodced its article so there can be no doubt and the public can check.
We can’t have the public going around depending on the accuracy of Carl’s predictions made in the leading daily Newspaper as his interpretation of them coming to pass may very well be flawed.
Pat // May 5, 2008 at 12:31 AM
Poor Carl. Look who delivering the licks, lol.
John // May 5, 2008 at 1:12 AM
Does anyone remember a blogger called BGR?
What sort of positions were routinely taken by this blogger?
There are two comments in this thread which seem strange.
I am a bit leary about following the link given to presumably another blog called bimchat to see if Carl’s article is published there in its entirety.
Can anyone say which blogs published Carl’s article in its entirety?
At the moment, BGR seems to be the best example I can find of any evidence of the publication of Carl’s article.
Carl, can you enlighten us on the blogs to which you refer?
Bush tea // May 5, 2008 at 4:27 AM
I really cannot believe that so many persons would continue to argue about a position held by a man who admits to having Ossie Moore’s DNA…
David // May 5, 2008 at 5:53 AM
Bush tea this blog has attracted many comments because of what Moore represents. He represents many things which the blogs are fighting against. There is a comfort level practiced by by our senior journalist which is disgusting. Someone suggested that many of the retired journalist should start a blog or used the blogs to agitate against injustices which they are very much aware. Instead they prefer to sit on their patios and read a book thinking that their job is done.
We are reminded of Nasser’s position, many Barbadians have failed education.
permres // May 5, 2008 at 6:20 AM
Yes, David, and what I find depressing is that the Nation should give such a prominent place for his piece in the Sunday Sun, and he gets paid for it.
The big problem at the moment is, I guess, that most people do not have easy access to a computer, so the daily paper and the radio/TV are still their only means of trying to keep informed.
As a young radical in the UK we would give out flyers in the shopping areas, until we were moved on by the police when the contents were too revolutionary!
John // May 5, 2008 at 8:24 AM
Anybody discussed anything with BGR before this thread or should we welcome this new blogger to our fold officially?
Carl probably won’t be back in any hurry and we’ll probably never find out which blogs carried his article verbatim.
Doubt very much the Nation will seek to clarify the ststement he made, c’est la vie!!
Perhaps we might see alot more of BGR in the future to make up for Carl’s absence.
Carl Moore // May 5, 2008 at 10:47 AM
Dear friends:
Nearly all of you are right: I am a failure. I have failed, over the past few weeks, to engage you in what I thought would’ve been a simple, straightforward analysis of this new and powerful vehicle for human expression known as the Internet.
I wanted to hear you discuss its strengths, its drawbacks and its potential for improving the human condition.
Instead, you’ve chosen to become personal; to attack Carl Moore, a flawed human being like yourselves, with a thousand and one faults.
Before I go, let me thank you for your varied responses, angry and bitter as most have been. I learned a lot from you, not the least of which is how complex, yet fascinating, is the English language.
If I could be so presumptuous, let me recommend what I consider to be one of the most intellectually stimulating websites. It is http://www.aldaily.com, a veritable buffet of ideas, criticism, philosphy, breakthroughs … everything.
I will now therefore take my leave and wish you success in your efforts in making sense of the great privilege of living in these fascinating times.
You will find your daily discourse much more rewarding and valuable if you can avoid discussing people and concentrating on ideas. Nothing is more exciting to me than a new idea; the more “outrageous”, the more I’m attracted to it.
Bye now.
Adrian Hinds // May 5, 2008 at 11:27 AM
Schuupppssseee. You could have contributed in your own way just like the rest of us, but no, you had to ride in on your elitist horse barking orders, giving directives, issuing insults and disparaging remarks. As a result of this, i have decided to ignore all that you have offered.
Yardbroom // May 5, 2008 at 11:42 AM
Mr. Moore I am delighted that our status has improved and that we are now being addressed, and thought of as “friends” and not quadrupeds.
However I am wary, as a certain fellow in an address once started: “Friends”, Romans countrymen”… you know the story, I will leave it at that.
There has been improvement, there is a change in behaviour, we must all rub along.
Chris Halsall // May 5, 2008 at 12:07 PM
Carl Moore wrote: “I have failed, over the past few weeks, to engage you in what I thought would’ve been a simple, straightforward analysis of this new and powerful vehicle for human expression known as the Internet.
With all due respect, kind sir, I personally have found that you are unwilling to discuss or respond to any of the substantial posts on this blog. Even those of us who have used our real names, and refrained from insult.
Why is this? It is the standard practice in such unmoderated forums to ignore the noise, but to focus on, engage and debate valid points. Why do you seem to feel that because there are some participants who choose to anonymously make personal attacks upon others that the entire exercise is pointless?
As I wrote above, the only reason the Barbados Blogs are successful is because they are fulfilling a need. Specifically, truly anyone can have a voice. If that voice brings value, it will be heard. There is no gatekeeper limiting what message is allowed to be radiated.
Here in Barbados the traditional Fourth Estate is perceived as being too timid, too distracted, and too dependent upon advertising revenue. The “message” is filtered in a way that we, the consumer, are not comfortable with.
Just about every serious international news agency have blogs directly integrated into their sites. Why isn’t that done here? Moderation is always possible (and, in my opinion, preferred).
Just how long are you (read: the profession) going to continue to try to hold back water? Or are you (again, read: the profession) uncomfortable with serious debate with an educated and knowledgeable readership?
John // May 5, 2008 at 12:18 PM
Newspapers don’t talk back!!
Adrian Hinds // May 5, 2008 at 2:18 PM
To those of you who find utility in Carl Moore’s ill-defined call for decorum, and decency, I have no intentions of being dictated too by your whims and fancy. If there is to be some form of guidelines to post here, I would rather the owner publisher display what such might be for all to see. My own opinion, one based on an online experience that supercedes those of many posters here is not to place to much emphasis on this one complaint.
John // May 5, 2008 at 7:30 PM
Adrian
I agree.
But if a blogger feels it is worth discussion, put it up, discuss it on its merits and see what comes of it, …maybe nothing, maybe something.
I find more often than not the bloggers themselves are a self regulating community but sometimes there are extremes that the moderator needs to deal with.
Most bloggers I see who have stuck on the few blogs I visit are concerned about their country and the direction it is heading and are for the most part sincere in offering suggestions and criticisms.
It is easy to expose a blogger who is trying a con because all that is needed is to engage the blogger in conversation and see if they really have a position and belong in the discussion and just how sincere they really are.
Sometimes some of the topics are emotive and the language can be excessive but that is how adults communicate in an informal setting.
It is difficult to treat grown adults like children and not spoil what are really useful forums for discussion, interchange of ideas and which create pressure where many people feel it needs to created.
… and then there is always the saying “sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me”.
I continue to learn by being a part of the blogs. There is always a different, sometimes unexpected angle that comes to light.
None of the newspapers can do that.
Why they don’t start blogs which encourage these types of discussions just to get news, create pressure and get direction for their reporters I will never understand ….. I kind of have my own guesses!!
Sundowner // May 5, 2008 at 9:28 PM
Is this the Carl Moore of ‘Society for a Quieter Barbados’? – sorry to stray from the point being discussed.