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119 responses so far ↓

• David // May 15, 2008 at 10:00 pm

  This submission by Bush tea begs the question what has Peter Wickham done to the Bushman? :-)

  Must say that all members of the BU household did the screaming test. In fact the matriarch did at 10 years old! We endorse the comments of BT so we will not rehash suffice to say no single system can perfectly gauge a true test of ones ability. To toss out the 11 plus means we have to move to continuous assessment and given the fact that Barbados is a small place we fear the influence and intimidation which would come from high places. The old adage applies if it ain’t broke left it alone!

  No disrespect to our teachers but the lack of a performance based approach to evaluating all the players in the service is a strike against moving away from 11 plus in our view.

• Tony Hall // May 15, 2008 at 10:24 pm

  I have mixed feelings about the 11 plus exams too. I, like many was a product of it too. I agree with David that if we remove it and go the route of continuous assessment we might have some problems given Barbados’ status as a small and class structured society. The 11 plus exam needs to be diversified.

• Georgie Porgie // May 15, 2008 at 11:38 pm

  I took the “screening test” when it was first introduced in 1962, at age 10. I was already at Boys’ Foundation.

  What is wrong with the test?

  It has its strenths and its weaknesses. But so does everything else.

  What ios more important is devising policies to deal with stellar students, slower students etc.

• Tell me Why // May 15, 2008 at 11:58 pm

  David of BU.
  The posts of consultant have been replaced by “advisors”. Just bear that in mind.

  I was one one of the many students who sat the screening test whilst at St. Giles’. I gained a pass for Parkinson School. Would you believe the same test we sat to gain places for form “A”, “B”, “C” and “D” where the same test that was used for the last screening test and 28 students including myself pass for Form 1A. Our form master at the time, a Mr. Weir stated that all of us should be flogged because our marks would have allowed us to gain entry to Harrison College or Combermere. So Peter Wickham and Minister Jones, leave the 11-plus alone. This is the only way that each child has a democratic right to gain admission a school based on results.

  Bring ITAL first.

• me // May 16, 2008 at 12:26 am

  I am in full agreement here. As a poor boy who wnet to a poor and relatively unknown public primary school I sat the test in 1977 and passed for HC where I sat with the well to do the not so well to do and the poor boys like myself. But I liked academics from small so I fit in quite well there. And many who went to this and that PRIVATE primary school didnt last too long at HC.

  The point is that the 11 plus is the most democratic way for us. If continuous assessment is introduced you will have teachers marking their own students and there will be much more room for bias AND outside influence. YOUR LAST NAME WILL DEFINITELY COUNT FOR MORE!

  I agree that there should be more 11plus exams or perhaps even an exma for some students at 13. And we should be looking to guide the student on apth in subjects thatthey are good /intersted in instaed of just mathsand english. Where is our High school for the performing arts for example?

  This nonsense about zoning willnot work. In 2 twos QC, Deigton Griffith will be the top schools and everyone that is anyone will have an address close to these places!

  Peter Wickham is a hot mess on this topic… he has no background or experience ion this field to be so pugnacious.

  Elitism did not start with the common entrnace exam and trust me it is going nowhere!

• BGR // May 16, 2008 at 12:29 am

  Not forgetting the fact that educators from America and Britain greatly admired our system and lament the fact that theirs have gone to the dogs - my word.
  The 11 plus exam just needs improving on and at the same time cater to those who are not academically inclined.
  Futhermore I do not believe that we should embrace wholeheartedly the US way of doing things in our educational system but we can sure use both positives from the US and British educational system.
  Mr Wickman is the unoffical spokeman for the abolition of the 11 plus exam but I do not see educational officials upsetting the apple cart anytime soon not where their children are concern that is.

  Bajan Global Report
  http://www.bimchat.wordpress.com

• thinkbajan // May 16, 2008 at 1:49 am

  Pull up. Pull up. The motive that drove the introduction of the”screaming test” had more to do about politics than continuous assessment. At that time there was a constituency of people who believed that the existing methods of transfer - which included interviews - was not fair and was the source of ” privilege”. The new political football was easily pumped hard - and good for match play - because there were limited school places, many untrained teachers, several expatriates in the system etc. The truth is it didn’t really matter from an educational perspective because the quality of primary education was generally excellent. A lot of the air has now come out of the football with the improvement of teacher training, an increase in the number of school places and a reduction in the school population. It did raise other non-assessment issues: we found out that at ages 10 - 12 females generally performed better than males and this is consistent with other countries; there is a mismatch between the skills of graduating students and the employment needs of the society; we no longer produce a core of secondary school graduates with two years of university credit; and there appears to be a decline in our cricket with the growth of coeducation. We can continue to put emotive air into the the political football, if we so choose, and continue to provide a reasonably good size fit all educational system or bite the bullet and preempt the explosion of energy that will occur when thousands of young people with raised expectations because of higher academic qualifications cannot find work and possess the desire or aptitude to become self employed. Who knows, the current energy crisis might very well force people to send their children to neighborhood schools. The bigger truth is that our past has become a friend a deed but our feelings about slavery and elitism keep getting in the way. We urgently need to forgive ourselves.

• thinkbajan // May 16, 2008 at 1:53 am

  please read as :cannot find work or possess the desire

• Gabriel the Horn Blower // May 16, 2008 at 2:08 am

  The Sunday Sun of 28 May, 2000 published an article by Hayden Boyce titled “Education under the microscope”. In that article, a breakdown of the performance of Barbadian students in CXC English and Mathematics for the June 1999 exams was given for each school. To my knowledge such information for subsequent years has NOT been made public .

  For the consideration of readers of this blog, the following summary of the performance of students in Mathematics for 1999 is given:

  A total of 1743 students sat the Mathematics exam . This represented about 44% of the cohort, i.e. less than half of the 15 - 16 year olds in schools.

  433 came from 13 newer secondary schools (including Louis Lynch Secondary) and 1319 came from 9 older secondary schools.

  Of the 433 candidates from the newer secodary schools, 1(yes ONE!) achieved a grade I, 15 (grade II) and 60 (grade III, which was not considered a passing grade at that time).

  Of the 1310 candidates from the older secondary schools, only 61 achieved a grade I (with HC and QC accounting for 46 of these!), 228 (grade II) and 448 (grade III).

  So 17% (305) of candidates achieved a passing grade at Mathematics in 1999 with HC, QC, C’mere and St. Michael accounting for 248 of the 305 students passing the subject.

  My teacher friends have assured me that the results are much better in recent times but the figures are still closely guarded secrets. Bear in mind that today a grade III is now considered a pass and in the opinion of some teachers the exam has been made easier under pressure from C’bean governments in order to report better performances.

  I want to end this little missive with this observation, as we consider full zoning with the assertion that the stronger students will assist the weaker students, my query is; where are these “stronger” students ? The data reveals that of the approximately 3600 students transfering to secondary schools only about 8 - 12% are able to achieve a passing grade in Mathematics after 5 years of instruction in our much vaunted educational system.

  If we wish to improve educational outcomes, it would probably do us well to focus less on the 11+ exam per se and more on what is happening in both primary and secondary schools in terms of teaching and assessment methodologies, school mangement and curriculum concerns.

  I’ve blown enough hot air for today.

• The People's Democratic Congress // May 16, 2008 at 3:35 am

  Some time ago, in the Nation Newspaper, January 30, 2008, one Professor Michael Howard, was reported in that particular edition as saying how there were three areas this Government ought to focus on: the economic management of the country, tax policy, and the high cost of living. He was also reported as stating that the expansionary policies of the former Owen Arthur Administration had led to the “over-heating” of the economy, which he said was, among other things, caused by conspicuous consumption. Furthermore, according to this particular Nation Newpaper, he bluntly opined that the island was now at a point where serious decisions had to be made to reduce high levels of spending, maintain capital controls and curb illegal imigration. With regard to the issue of rising prices in Barbados, he was interpreted by the said newspaper as saying that the problem could NOT be solved by fiscal or monetary policies, even as he was at the same time reported in the said newspaper to be blaming the spiralling cost of living on imported foods and was reported to be saying how local farmers needed to grow more food.

  But, who would believe that in the Thursday, May 15, 2008 edition of the NATION Newspaper, this same ole waffling scribe, three and a half months after regaling us with the above wishy washy, would be quoted as saying that “our problem is excessive imports”. What foolishness of the highest order!! How could one properly contextualize such? How? What are you, Dr. Howard, really saying, given what you were reported to have said in that January 30 issue? What a meteoric fall down!! What is so much more intellectually worse than believing that imports are really excessive and that they are national problem is when, in the said newspaper, he is reported as saying that the government’s policy focus should be on trying to reduce the excessive demand for consumption goods (consumer goods?), rather than REDUCING THE COST OF LIVING - incidentally, this same cost of living that he is alleged to have said the goverment should have been focussed upon and that has been for a long time wrecking untold havoc on the lives of thousands upon thousands of people in this country. Dr. Howard must really be told in no uncertain terms by our party that the problem IS definitely NOT excessive imports, and that there are so many, many national and sectoral problems that are caused by us and that are affecting us, covering so many areas, politically, materially, socially and financially, and that relate to the commerce and trade business in Barbados, that he himself should relly be focussing on many of the critical problems. E.g TAXATION. Quite specifically, in contrast to this Howardian false issue of excessive imports - and which is what the said Dr. Howard is so wrongly claiming to be the “problem” right now, we in PDC have long recognized that what is really the fundamental problem is the SUM TOTAL VALUE ( NOT THE ACTUAL VOLUME per se ) of goods and services that are imported into the country for any one given year ( about BDS $ 3.2 billion 2006 - the FEBRUARY 2008 Central Bank publication - Economic and Financial Statistics ), given too that we in Barbados unwisely continue to import the prices of goods and services from other countries into Barbados. Indeed, if we were the Government today under our policy of making sure that IMPORTS OF GOODS AND SERVICES INTO THIS COUTRY WOULD BE ZERO-”PRICED” AT ALL POINTS OF ENTRY, surely there would have been the need at this stage to get far greater levels of import of goods and services into the country, esp consumer non-durables and durables, intermediate and capital goods and services. Therefore, such a policy, in operation with other progressive policies like the Abolition of Taxation; the Abolition of Interests Rates; Making sure that institutional Loans for productive purposes are deemed Non-Repayable and Making sure that Exports would be paid for in Local Currency/”Prices”, would NEVER EVER be asisting in the bringing about of any fiscal and external deficits, but surpluses, for the state and people of Barbados. For sure, far more greater increases - rather fall offs - in the levels of goods and services that are imported into Barbados are what are necessary if a future PDC Government’s target would be to achieve average annual long term growth rates of 8 - 10 per cent for the country.

  Finally, we in PDC assume that when Dr. Howard talks about reducing demand for consumption goods (consumer goods ?) what he really means is that any results consistent with the achievement of such an objective must realize, on one extreme, lower “prices” for some of those goods, and higher “prices” for some others, even though in both cases the objective would be to lower demand for these goods. And, for him, to actually do so would certainly mean implementing wage restraint again ( must be murder now), increasing THEFTS of the relevant portions of the incomes of entities by the state, increasing interest rates (again) or the cost of credit, et al, thus, the spending capacity of the average man/woman in buying such consumption gods and services would be drastically reduced. So, therefore, what this teacher of economics - one of the worst and most barbarous sets of ideologies ever invented by mankind - might also scandalously be advocating is that this objective and the methods that may be contemplated by him for achieving such - are really what are needed to make the poor poorer and the middle classes more traumatised, since no attempts should be made to reduce the investment goods/expenditures of merchants, intermediate goods/expenditures of the industrialists/agriculturalists, hardly those of the government, and to prevent the said big and medium sized merchants - who are also in collusion with the money stealing government - from importing and passing on this so-called inflation to the masses and middle classes. For him, it seems that to really try to reduce general situation: the cost of living, would be to irritate big merchants/industrialists/agriculturalists in Barbados, principally. So, for him, fuel, light, land, housing and transportation costs - among other costs that are helping to seriously push up the local cost of living - including the cost of food - - must continue to skyrocket further and further, again, to the total advantage of those persons and their entities and to the absolute disadvantage of the masses and middle classes in Barbados. Hey, but, still dont interfere with the process of imposing these increasing costs on the vulnerable as that to do so would be the wrong approach!!??. What colossal ignorance!!

  If Dr. Howard is possibly thinking that the answer to the contrived problem of our so-called importing too much food from overseas is simply a very fallacious one that is provided by so many people in the country, which is this, to simply grow more local food - yes, growing food here for local consumption is great - then such is all the more ludicrous when much of this same food can be bought in some places overseas at cheaper prices - and can be got in greater supplies - than you get here. So, get it right, you old Dr. Howard there is NO question about excessive food and many other imports being a national problem !! Also, what we in the PDC wish for you to do is to speak out publicly and strongly about the local culprits that are staggeringly increasing food and other consumer goods and services costs to the local final consumers, first, before you can begin to convince ourselves and many other people in Barbados about some of these things that you are purportedly writing about. Anyhow, if, Dr. Howard, you fail to do the latter, it might mean that you are the true economist!! A very enshrouded, programmed agent that has long been used by the global euro-centric system to help oppress the masses and middle classes in particular parts of the world. To demonstrate how backward and useless your view is that the government’s focus should be on trying to reduce the excessive demand for consumption goods, rather than reducing the cost of living: quite recently in 2005, the then Arthur Administration four times increased interest rates on minimum deposits and introduced the cess to attempt to slow rapidly increasing imports - a major source of general consumption goods and services — and in order to slow an increasingly huge import bill - a major function of import demand - and stem much foreign exchange leakage. But, you know what, in the end such measures had starkly failed to reverse the increasing trend in importation of goods and services and foreign exchange leakage. You know what, too, Dr. Howard, many persons in Barbados were also quite rightly at the time stating that the increases in interests rates and the cess would have helped led to the skyrocketing cost of living in Barbados in 2006 and 2007. So, hear us out, neh, so much for this warped idea about focussing on the economc management of the country!!

  PDC

• bussa // May 16, 2008 at 6:10 am

  hey bush tea how many of our leaders passed for H.C

• georgeofstgeorge // May 16, 2008 at 7:29 am

  Before deciding to scrap a well-established system decision-makers would be well advised to insure that what they intend to replace it is something that represents a reasonable facsimile of a”working” model rather than a wuk-up model. Having said that let me also say that I abhor the ab hominem manner in which Peter Wickham has been castigated by BT.

  As a former senior adviser to governments, I take extreme umbrage at the comment that:
  ” It seems that we have reached a stage where idiots are highly valued in national decision making.” After more than 45 years of national and international public service I have concluded that even so-called “idiots” have a role to play in making this poor benighted Rock a better place on which to perch (yes, there should be room for even the political cormorants [phalacrocorax carbo politicus] whose guano can be put to good use).

  BTW, David, why do you permit PDC to post lengthy off-point nonsense, like the piece in which they have excoriated Prof. Michael Howard, who should be encouraged to contribute more of his wisdom?

• Yardbroom // May 16, 2008 at 8:51 am

  If the 11 plus is abolished, with what should it be replaced and would the new system be an improvement on what presently exist?

  The education of our children is too serious a matter, to be left to those who seek glory and self aggrandizement. Too many major decisions have been taken of late -it seems - on the back of a cigarette packet, often with self interest to the fore, this should not be the case with the education of our young people.

  In continuous assessment it does allow a gradual accumulation of information over time, without the stress of a given exam at a fixed point in time. However it is important to get the balance right, as to what percentage of the total marks are from continuous assessment and a final exam.

  In continuous assessment some systems are open to outside interference; in that children from households that are well off financially and whose parents have a professional or academic background can, and often help their children with homework often included in their assessment portfolio, an advantage not available to “some poorer “households.

  Ther is also the influence teachers can have on continuous assessment, in that overly subjective marks can be given to pupils whom they deem are better, based on background, class, parents position in society etc… a final exam cancels out to some degree that kind of bias… this is not to disparage teachers they are human beings.

  The idea of zoning in Barbados fills me with dread, the zones with the best schools, will be those whose boundaries include the most privileged in our society, the others will be for the majority. I wish that would not be the case but Barbados is Barbados and what happens in other areas in our society will not suddenly disappear because of an education system.

  We must, what ever decision is made, make the playind field as level as possible, because education gives to the poorer families in our society a measure of hope for the future and it is from those ranks which will ultimately come leaders with the “hard experience” of life which will give them the determination to turn around practices which are prevalent in our society, and have been for a long time.

• Anonymous // May 16, 2008 at 9:41 am

  So for the sake of combating elitism we will sacrifiec the 2000 for the sake of empowering 120 to HC. That is hilarious and sad simultaneously.

  Education in the whole spectrum of schools in Barbados must be upgraded. There are new curricula at large and Bush Tea displays scant knowledge.

  When a writer to refers to themself in the third person it indicates delusions of grandeur.

  The truth is you cannot control Wickham, can you?

• Hindssight // May 16, 2008 at 10:23 am

  Anonymous // May 16, 2008 at 9:41 am

  When a writer to refers to themself in the third person it indicates delusions of grandeur.

  The truth is you cannot control Wickham, can you?
  =================================

  I just love it when people attempt to win arguments by reference to others language and grammar use.

  …Yes Bush Tea likes to use the third person singular “Himself” by using his name Bush Tea, So does Peter Wickham, who’s many articles are peppered with “THIS WRITER”,… in obvious reference to “Himself”. Both have “He” as the subject.
  ….that both are accused of having delusion of grandeur is funny, but on close inspection Bush Tea’s accusation has more merit than Anon’s of Bush Tea’s. :D

  ….Peter Wickham is a socialist and the last i heard socialism has not brought us any real lasting change or progress to the challenges we face.

• Banned Again From VOB and BFP // May 16, 2008 at 10:47 am

  The People’s Democratic Congress
  Like so many others write too much. I like opinions but caThe People’s Democratic Congress
  Like so many others on this site you write too much. I like opinions but can’t you keep them to less than 300 words. Some of you guys are tedious. Shight man… too much info. Talk about delusions of grandeur.

• Hindssight // May 16, 2008 at 10:55 am

  Banned Again From VOB and BFP // May 16, 2008 at 10:47 am

  The People’s Democratic Congress
  Like so many others write too much. I like opinions but caThe People’s Democratic Congress
  Like so many others on this site you write too much. I like opinions but can’t you keep them to less than 300 words. Some of you guys are tedious. Shight man… too much info. Talk about delusions of grandeur.
  =================================

  Why does PDC have to conform to your wish?
  Just ignore those things that you cannot bring yourself to read. It is for PDC to figure out why they are not being heard, if indeed that is the case. :D

• John // May 16, 2008 at 11:03 am

  I sat the screening test and 11 plus.

  Did well too, went to HC.

  The only way I know I did well, apart from going to HC, was that one morning out of the blue I got called up in Hall along with perhaps six other boys in my first term there to receive a prize!!

  At 10 years old an unexpected surprise like that can be fatal.

  Yet, I had that privelege.

  In those days, there probably were not many public primary schools. I was a product of a private primary school.

  That was a privelege too.

  So I went to HC where I never saw any written school rules but operated on the premise that “a breach of common sense is a breach of the school rules”.

  It was hard sometimes and the easiest way through was to err on the side of caution.

  Funny thing was everybody seemed to operate on this premise as well. The first and only blood I saw shed was in fifth form.

  The order and control when I think back was amazing, yet, there was room for boys to be different too.

  There were floggings but still it appeared almost everyone operated on one principle which I struggled to figure out on a daily basis until the day I left.

  To even speak the words “yuh mer” was a flogging offence, no explanations could mitigate the sentence. You simply did not do or say anything that could be remotely assumed to impugn the character of another boy’s mother.

  I feel that there is a place for priveleged schools in any country but that with the privelege must go the expectation that the receiver of the privelege MUST give back of the benefits that flow from receiving that privelege.

  This expectation cannot be written down without infringing on “human rights” but MUST flow from the innards of the person who went through the system and received the privelege.

  This only happens when the school and home environment operate in such a way as to reinforce one another.

  I would be extreme and say that if there was only one dollar more to spend on schools, that it should go to a priveleged school, ONCE the principle of “to whom much is given, much is expected” is alive and well.

  If that principle is obviously not in operation, then split the dollar equally among all schools.

  Make all equal.

  By all means look for a method which makes it fair for all children entering secondary school, but if we don’t find a method of making it second nature for at least some children who receive the privelege of a free secondary education to want to give back to their country we are wasting money providing free secondary education.

  Home and school must work together!!

  The alternative to this is lowered expectations and poorer life skills.

  No matter how good or how many, grades and certificates cannot replace these.

  The best we get out of such a system is mere functionaries who can operate a calculator and who have no vision.

  … but all will be equal!!

  Is this really what we want?

• notesfromthemargin // May 16, 2008 at 11:15 am

  One of the issues with the 11+ is not so much how it serves the bright kids, but what happens with the ones who do not do well. Currently the system allocates them to secondary schools, even though their results in the 11+ would indicate that they have not mastered the most basic concepts that they will need to progress at the secondary level.

  There is a need to look not so much at the HC’s of this world but at the system which does not have a “fail” mark per se.

  The case of a child getting 20% in the exam should be investigated. Does the child have a physical disability? A learning disability? Have they just not mastered the concepts? Did they have exam stress? Were they ill? The current system asks none of those questions, so we shuttle kids through the system when we have information that they CAN’T cope with a secondary education and have BASIC issues that need to be addressed before they go forward.

  Rather than trying to “equalise” the HC’s of this world we need to focus on the individual children and recognise that one size does NOT fit all.

  Marginal.

  Hi Marginal

  Good to see that you are still active :-)

  BU

• John // May 16, 2008 at 11:53 am

  Education is about continuously setting examinations for yourself on any topic in life.

  Everytime you take those examinations you improve your education.

  Passing someone else’s exam on one very limited topic is only practice in the learning experience of life.

  What you do after confirms whether you have education ….. or just learning.

• me // May 16, 2008 at 12:19 pm

  agreed… we sit exams in one way or another throughout life so the idea of sitting exams at 11 is just par for the course.

• Bush tea // May 16, 2008 at 1:05 pm

  georgeofstgeorge

  “….I abhor the ab hominem manner in which Peter Wickham has been castigated by BT.”
  ****************************************
  georgeX2, I take note of your abhorrence. I also plead guilty with explanation

  First, I happen to know that Mr. Wickham can take as well as he can give…

  Second, I do not know if you follow Mr. Wickham’s public positions in arguing his various positions, but I can assure you that my robust approach to dealing with him is a simple case of fighting fire with fire…

  …. besides I don’t like foolishness.

  By the way georgeX2, those are some big words that you tossed out in that short piece… you sent Bush tea to the dictionary….
  …If you persist along that line you yourself may be subjected to a Bush war of words.

• peltdownman // May 16, 2008 at 1:39 pm

  PDC
  You really have runaway fingers. Apart from writing utter rubbish, you contradict yourself over and over again. Why don’t you try writing it as a draft whilst the blood is rushing, leave it for an hour and read it again? Even you would be surprised literally by the the completely nonsensical arguments and ideas that are contained therein.

• Rene // May 16, 2008 at 1:40 pm

  The 11+ needs to go and a new system put in its place to deal with the placement of students. I’m for zoning but most people here fail to look at the zoning option because they my have gone to school like HC, QC etc etc and would like for their kids to do the same and not only people from town. Before this step is made work would have to be done to put all secondary school compounds and staff on the same footing for it to work and student don’t end up disadvantage. Some new schools may even have to be built for this to work effectively. Zoning could also help some what with our traffic woes and even help with cutting down on the cost it takes to commute to school.

  If I had a say to make a change to the present system this is what I would do.

  From 11 you move to a school in your zone.

  Have advance classes and remedial classes in pacific subject areas for student in both the primary and secondary school system.

  I would have 4 six form schools that students transfer to at the fourth level once they attain the entrance requirements for these schools. These 4 schools would each specializes in certain subject areas. 1. Sciences, 2. Languages & Arts, 3. Business, 4. Technical & Agriculture. Students that don’t meet the requirements will continue till fifth form at there zone secondary school still cover the range of subjects sat under the CXC curriculum. Students that continue on in the zone secondary schools will have the opportunity to do six form at BCC once they graduate secondary school.

  Introduction of a standard high school diploma that has to be sat by all 5 form students to graduate secondary school. This will either take the form of having to successfully pass the minimum of 4/5 CXC subject or the introduction to a GPA system to obtain your diploma. Students will start working towards this from fourth form by starting to sit CXC exams where possible or taking exams the go towards their GPA. Schools will either have an upper fifth for those students that may need time to do CXC, may it be that they return to sit over subjects or need extra time to prepare. Maybe a special fifth form school could be set up for this if the numbers demand it

  With the 11+ gone focuses on only English & Math in the primary level can now boarding to include Foreign Languages, Art & Music, Sciences, and PE so students entering into the secondary level have a basic knowledge of these subject areas.

  I would like to see a system with students, parents, teachers, and guidance consolers work together on subject choices, working out career paths and what options work best for the students involved. At present we have too many kids leaving secondary school with nothing and that equals no future we need to change that.

• John // May 16, 2008 at 2:43 pm

  Rene // May 16, 2008 at 1:40 pm

  At present we have too many kids leaving secondary school with nothing and that equals no future we need to change that.
  ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

  No certificates does not equate with nothing nor does it mean no future.

  It simply demonstrates that you can take a horse to water but you cannot make the horse drink.

  There are some students who cannot and will not get certificates.

  What we need to be able to do is to find a path for them to follow which leads to a productive life where they become meaningful contributors to their country.

  The lack of future of which you speak also applies to those who leave school with certificates.

  How many hungry lawyers are there in Barbados?

  Both sets of students have problems after leaving school because we are not producing the people with vision to create the jobs to employ others to work.

  What is worse, we have allowed learning to denigrate certain jobs which an educated people should know are vital to their survival.

  These are two of the basic flaws in our education/learning system.

  That is also why we are selling off our land.

  We have alot of learned people but very few educated ones.

  Eleven plus is the least of our problems.

  When we begin to appreciate the difference between education and learning we will begin to find solutions for our children.

  “Children go to school and learn well, otherwise later on in life you will get real hell” still remains valid, but notice Sparrow uses the word learn.

  He also speaks to Education in the calypso.

  “There is no room in this whole wide world, for an uneducated little boy or girl, …. without an education in your head, your whole life is miserable you better off dead”

  He ends with the refrain “To earn tomorrow you got to learn today”.

  It is easy to confuse learning and education.

  You get an education through learning but because you have learnt something does not mean you have an education.

  If Sparrow knows, we know!!

  We just need to stop and think for a moment and get our priorities right.

• ROBOT // May 16, 2008 at 2:46 pm

  pee- ter wick- ham is right about the 11 plus

  i agree with pee-ter wick–ham

  11 plus should be abolished because it’s origin

  is
  racist
  elitist
  divisive
  discriminatory

• ROBOT // May 16, 2008 at 3:30 pm

  john ! yuh talking rubbish
  ——————————-
  bush tea ! you are right /correct

  he can give and take as well as he can give and take

  his positions in public and his public positions
  are fairly well-known
  ———————————
  I agree with

  pee– ter wick—-ham
  again

  when he said just let the children go to secondary school as they do to primary school
  simple
  and i agree with him totally

• Real Ting // May 16, 2008 at 4:09 pm

  It is madness and complete ignorance to suggest that the 11 plus should be scrapped because it is so negative and THEN search for a method to replace it? that is a recipe for disaster.

  Zoning in primary schools is not all that effective . check how crowded some town schools are and the machinations that some big shots pull to get their kids in. What will make the secondary school zoning system any different?

  All secondary schools cannot be of the same quality . that is a given. in the real world their will be inadequate teachers and administrators and thus those schools will not be as good as others. Invariably those schools will be the country schools and that will leave the children who attend them marginalized but with no option to legitamately progress.

  Let those who want to abolish the 11 plus prove that they can bring all secondary schools into a narrow range of performance before they think of zoning.

• me // May 16, 2008 at 4:22 pm

  But the issue of performance of the school is not the only issue. Barbados societywould have to cchange and CHANGE greatly for full zoning to ever work.

  Just recently Mr Melnick a wealthy ( billionaire) Canadian Expat opened a private and quite exclusive primary school in st George called Providence because he was unsatisfied with the private Codrington school and didnt care much for St Winifreds. The Tuition is rumoured to be 2500US a term but the children get to learn golf , dressage , ballet what have you.. All of a sudden the upper class and middle class white and black an indian are clamouring to move their children from St winis , St Cyps, St Gabs an the Convent to snd them to providnce.

  Do we really think that if HC , QC , Cawmere, St Michaels, Lodge , etc become fully zoned that these people will allow their offspring to go to thses schools? Expect to see a few Presentation Colleges appearing in short order and with that movement of the best teachers to these private schools. So in the end the we would have Jamaica!

  The common entrance exam should ne tinkered with allwoing for more assessment of the childs ability in a wider range of subjects BUT the essence of the exam should remain!

  Unless Barbados becomes a socialist country

• Pat // May 16, 2008 at 6:01 pm

  I think Barbados and Bajans put too much emphasis on one exam at 11 years old. It is an archaic system and children should stay in elementary/middle school until 14, moving on to high school after. They should be going to the school closest to their homes. If all the teachers in Barbados were well qualified and had teaching skillls, it would n ot matter what shcool a kid went to.

  Enrichment/gifted classes could be set us for exceptional children where they spent about two hours a week on advanced or general interest subjects.

• David // May 16, 2008 at 6:29 pm

  Georgeofstgeorge the beauty of the blog is that all people are able to express themselves. If you feel that a comment can be rebutted in the interest of enlightening the BU family please do so.

  We reiterate the point that Barbadians should expect better from Wickham whose line of business requires that he supports his conclusions with scientific analysis. We heard the point made today on the call in show and he became ultra defensive. His defense was to refer to his first year research papers when he was at UWI :-)

• me // May 16, 2008 at 8:55 pm

  I laughed out loud when I heard his reaction to being challenged on statistics… He is o out on a limb here. Where is the evidence of this so called traumatization ? Where is the direct link ( illustrated by statistics that increasing crime and incaceration is directly related to passing for a newer secondary school instead of the older ones?

• Bush tea // May 16, 2008 at 10:16 pm

  The 11 plus is one of the things that we do well in Barbados. It does not surprise me that there is a concerted effort to destroy it. I well recall the arguments used to introduce co-education.

  Because of the 11-Plus, EVERY BAJAN knows that his or her child has as FAIR a chance of going to the school of their choice, as does the Prime Ministers girls…. depending ONLY on their academic aptitude.

  …trust me, that is worth A LOT.

  I wish to note however that ever since CXC came on board, the results of this exam now takes a long time to finalize.

  I seem to recall previously, the results being produced on the very night of the exams. Maybe I just don’t trust people as I should, …but frankly - I don’t.

  Why exactly does it take so long now?
  ************************

  Can someone please tell Peter Wickham and his fellow ‘Non HC grads’ that while it IS true that a weak student who gets to sit in class with stronger ones may benefit from the experience, the strong student condemned to sit in class with distracted, weak and ofter (as a result) ill disciplined children NEVER reaches their full potential.

  THE COUNTRY IS THEN THE POORER FOR THE LOSS OF THAT POTENTIAL LEADER / EMPLOYER / PROBLEM SOLVER.

  His approach would therefore give us more ‘Peter Wickhams’ at the expense of ‘Errol Barrows’ and ‘Tom Adams’….

  ….good deal?

• Gabriel the Horn Blower // May 16, 2008 at 11:39 pm

  BT writes

  “while it IS true that a weak student who gets to sit in class with stronger ones may benefit from the experience….”

  This is speculative and I am yet to see empirical data that supports this contention. A weak student remains a weak student IF NOTHING is done to address the REAL problems INHERENT to such a student.

  The data shows that in any event for Barbados these “stronger’ students are in such a small minority that even if we could identify them (for all subjects) and then distribute them evenly throughout all the schools, most classes would still not have any so called “stronger” students.

  I couldn’t care less for maintaining HC or QC or whatever. What I do care about is that my child who is struggling (and I do have at least one such child), gets real help so as to attain adequate levels of cognitive and affective development ALONG WITH SKILL TRAINING so that he can be a happy, productive and self-motivated member of this society. In fact it is suspected that there are many HC/QC graduates that are drifting aimlessly in their adult lives after attaining only mediocre academic results (a BSc/ BA is not of itself an outstanding achievement especially if one cannot gain employment with it).

  Removing the 11+ is not a panacea for the issues in schooling and the more important objective of human resource development.

• John // May 16, 2008 at 11:53 pm

  I think I saw something on the internet recently where a Kindergarden in the US was testing for IQ and only those children with high enough IQs got to go.

  There was a video on the site with children being taught foreign languages in kindergarden.

  I could not find the link but here is an example of a site which offers an IQ test to parents of children 4 and up.

  http://www.kids-iq-tests.com/

  The simple fact is that any first world country worth its salt has schools or programs for gifted children!!

  Of course there is a down side but since they exist in these first world countries, it is clear the pros outweigh the cons.

  If we have delusions of first world grandeur why would we want to be any different in Barbados?

  The simple fact is that the world is a tough place and to compete we need to perform at the level at which everybody else perfoms.

  Should the state sponsor schools for gifted children or should the sponsorship be only through the private sector?

  I think there needs to be a school where higher than average expectations are placed on children who have it in them to perform and I think it should be sponsored by the state.

  Somebody in a Barbados that we have watched become shoddy and nothing special needs to be shooting for the stars and not the treetops.

• John // May 16, 2008 at 11:59 pm

  Has anyone heard the term gifted children used about any of our children in Barbados?

  If no, is this because the term is:

  a) racist
  b) elitist
  c) divisive
  d) discriminatory
  e) None of the above (Please specify)

  If yes, please give examples!!

• Anonymous // May 17, 2008 at 12:26 am

  I agree with John. Yet the other 2000 who are not yet gifted enough, or have not had their gift discovered, to get to HC (at that particular point in time) must be provided for in such a way as to be empowered. And not just marginally so; nor as an afterthought. That is not good enough for Barbados, which is why we should look at other systems besides the 11 plus. One is not so high and mighty as to be incorrect sometimes, neither Mr. T nor Mr. W.

  Mr. T co-blogged subjects- education, highways, prisons and more. Many take exception to someone pointing out in an education forum that a former govt was dishonest, while simultaneously the new one does not honour its promises. What does this have to do with education?

  One may take a top percentile and teach them: that they have no need to honour a promise, have no need for integrity, have no need to honour a comittment?

  We 2000 as yyet unempowered, undiscovered, will watch and pray that he top percentile will fulfill what it said it would do, its promise. The 2000 have less cash, but the 2000 can exercise the one thing it has- a vote. It is important to remember that the 2000 lower percentile voted for this smaller percentile. So, it’s time to fulfill the promise.

  When Mr. Wickham and others start to call the gifted on subjects that parallel the highway and prison losses referred to, like the so-called ‘ITAL’ and the agriculture, the gifted percentile won’t be talking education any more with Mr. Wickham?

  Why not simply teach our gifted children to do the right thing and to fulfill their honourable committments? In fact why not show us all the right path that honest men and women follow?

• John // May 17, 2008 at 12:36 am

  Gabriel the Horn Blower // May 16, 2008 at 11:39 pm

  The data shows that in any event for Barbados these “stronger’ students are in such a small minority that even if we could identify them (for all subjects) and then distribute them evenly throughout all the schools, most classes would still not have any so called “stronger” students.
  +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

  I think that if expectations are lifted and children see that attention is given to sound academic performance that a so called weak student will suddenly become not so weak.

  Of course problems need to be addressed individually, but don’t dismiss the “stronger” (gifted) students when addressing problems on an individual basis.

  Deal with both and I think that the overall level will be lifted.

  More effort will need to be expended on the weaker ones but give the gifted ones every chance to shine because they can lift up the weaker ones easier than an older person can.

  Make all feel it is cool to be gifted and watch them explode, gifted and weak. I have watched it work already. The feeling is magic.

  … in the end however, we need to provide employment for school leavers and this is the acid test.

  Here is where we fall down too and it has nothing to do with the children, it is our fault, our responsibility.

  I say:

  Expect more and you will get it.

  Expect nothing and you won’t be disappointed.

  If everybody is moaning and saying “the children nowadays have too many distractions” then stop saying it and set about reducing those distractions, one by one.

  See what happens.

  I think it is criminal to impose our lack of expectations on our children.

  Let them learn to strive for excellence and shine through their own efforts.

  Expect them to shine and they will do their utmost to shine. That is what children do naturally.

  Some won’t shine so bright but appreciate the effort, celebrate it with them.

  Everybody is a winner.

  … then there is the employment issue, but it is ours to deal with and worry about, it should not stop a child from trying.

• GtHB // May 17, 2008 at 3:06 am

  John

  All these vapid cliches about expectation is tiresome. Try this cliche - SUCCESS IS ENGINEERED.

• dogniteyah // May 17, 2008 at 3:52 am

  Wickham already does enough damage pushing his gay agenda via the airwaves. His warp religious beliefs also stem from his position on homos. He says he doesn/t eat meat but a sausage or two would do. Then he compares flogging a child with capital punishment which he is against. If as he says flogging makes children more violent then over 200K living in Barbados should be killing and fighting each other with weapons daily because all of us were flogged many times and I am not violent. The liberals control the airwaves, they get more hours at primetime to poison weak minds. I wish more conservative persons were given a chance to counter such views on the same radio stations without being cutoff. Trust me! Too much liberalism will kill this sweet rock we call Barbados. Just keep chipping the edges.No surrender!

• David // May 17, 2008 at 6:07 am

  Peter Wickham has a right to voice his opinion. But he has to recognize that VOB according to all reports has a large listening audience and therefore he needs to be measured in his comments because as host of the show he becomes an opinion shaper.

  The fact of the matter is that we are all sharing opinions on the pros and cons of the 11 plus and sadly after all these the years there is no researched body of work which can guide public discussion. Instead every year like clock work at the completion of the exam this debate reemerges about the exam.

  Barbadians are suppose to be an educated people yet we perennially attack this discussion based on emotion and political expediency.

  To Minister Jones let us resolve before your advisory body makes changes based on OPINIONS please call the stakeholders together and identify measures which we feel are the key indicators within our education system and build the results over the next 3-5 years.

  Frankly we are tired with the agenda ladened discussions which we continue to have. Our children don’t deserve it.

• Adrian Hinds // May 17, 2008 at 6:35 am

  Equally every year around this time i usually feel compel to pull out an old article by John Blackman titled “The Greats of St.Leonards” to make the same point. The 11 plus and school placement did not deter, damage, or deny the following men.

  Gordon Alleyne, managing director, Federal Motor Spares, Philip Blackman, principal nursing officer, Geriatric Hospital, Sylvanus Blackman, Barbados, British and British Empire/Commonwealth weightlifting champion, competed at 3 Olympics (Tokyo, Rome, Mexico), Oliver Brome (Lord Radio), Dean William Dixon, Keith Jones, funeral director, Clifford Mayers, assistant general secretary, Barbados Workers Union, Colonel Deighton Maynard, Commanding Officer, Barbados Defence Force, Carl Mullins, cricketer, Keith Padmore, Permanent Secretary, Milton Pierce, attorney-at-law, Lt.Col. Quintyne, Defence Force, Robert Quintyne, agriculturalist, George Small, commissioner of Inland Revenue, David Trotman, surveyor, and the legendary Sir Everton Weekes. Bruce Alleyne, project manager, Education, Dr. Christopher Atherley, conductor, Police Band, H. Cobham, area manager, C.I.B.C., Jeffrey Hoyte, managing director, Antiseptics Ltd., Terrific Tiles, Tropical Laundry, Alan Jones, Permanent Secretary, Cherry Jose, managing director, Jose & Jose, the Hon. Rommel Marshall, Minister of Communications and Works, Neville Rowe, managing director, Julie ’N Supermarkets, Erville Spencer, financial advisor, Wall Street, Michael St. Clair, director CLICO, Edwin Worrell of Budg Buy, Drs. Randolph Drakes, Peter Grimes, Mohammed Nagdee, and Dwayne Wharton, Q.E.H., Carlisle Greaves and Donville Hope attorneys-at-law, and John Blackman himself former principal of the Deighton Griffith Secondary School.

  The 11 plus and school placement has not detered the young crop of Doctors, lawyers, and a former Senator, all Leonardians.

  I do understand the perception which is probably at core to Peter Wickhams position on the 11 plus and school placement, but that perception can be changed by making known the great work and accomplishments of graduates of the newer Secondary schools.

  WE ALL MUST KNOW THAT A GRADUATE OF ST.LEONARDS BOYS IS NOW THE PRINCIPLE OF HARRISON COLLEGE! ….well tell bajans and start breaking the perception of High Schools as Colleges and Universities when they are not. :D

  My mother sent me down at Richmonds where i sat in body for several years and about a week in spirit. :D I was out of depth and could not compete with those names afore mentioned.

• georgeofstgeorge // May 17, 2008 at 7:35 am

  By the way georgeX2, those are some big words that you tossed out in that short piece… you sent Bush tea to the dictionary….
  …If you persist along that line you yourself may be subjected to a Bush war of words.
  **********************************************
  BT:

  I hope that the exercise was good for brain and brawn. As I said at another time and place, we need to bring down the cost of operating the Drug Service.

  I agree that PW can defend himself, not only against all comers, but goers as well, particularly those at sixes and sevens, and those who continue to take a six for a nine. So keep knocking down your ninepins but please don’t have them with me!

• John // May 17, 2008 at 9:39 am

  GtHB // May 17, 2008 at 3:06 am

  John

  All these vapid cliches about expectation is tiresome. Try this cliche - SUCCESS IS ENGINEERED.
  ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

  That works too.

  Any of us can engineer the success of a child at school if we take the time to listen and encourage.

  The child will deliver.

  That’s what children do naturally …… particularly if learning about the responsibility part of life occurs before the options and freedom part.

  There are very few young people who choose to study who cannot get through school or university, but there are some who try as they might will have difficulties.

  This is a tiny minority.

  There are also those who when faced with the options and freedoms of life, make choices which make it more difficult for themselves, but not impossible because the option to get back on track is always open.

  The reason most young people can be successful is because nothing which they are taught is new and thousands upon thousands (millions) of others all over the world have faced the material before and triumphed.

  It is only at graduate level that anything new is attempted.

  If a person successfully gets there, success at that level is very likely too.

  Most people just blunder through the system but I agree that success in studying can also be engineered through pragmatically assessing the requirements and ensuring they are met, one by one.

• Peter W. Wickham // May 17, 2008 at 10:09 am

  Bush Tea says “THE COUNTRY IS THEN THE POORER FOR THE LOSS OF THAT POTENTIAL LEADER / EMPLOYER / PROBLEM SOLVER.

  His approach would therefore give us more ‘Peter Wickhams’ at the expense of ‘Errol Barrows’ and ‘Tom Adams’….”

  Foundation = Peter Wickham + Bree St John, HC = Dipper, Tom.. and of course Bush Tea. I guess this means all schools will have their good and bad days!

• Bush tea // May 17, 2008 at 11:32 am

  Peter W. Wickham

  “Foundation = Peter Wickham + Bree St John, HC = Dipper, Tom.. and of course Bush Tea. I guess this means all schools will have their good and bad days!”
  *****************************************

  Strong point PWW.
  I do apologise for Barrow and Adams. But realistically, not everyone can expect to be at the level of Bush tea…. :-)

• Anonymous // May 17, 2008 at 11:50 am

  Bush Tea went to HC? Didn’t he write in the initial post:

  “…., Bush tea (who also did not go to HC) is more than willing to offer suggestions” ?

• Bush tea // May 17, 2008 at 12:03 pm

  …. Don’t bother with such details Anonymous, PWW is usually wrong anyway…..

  Bush tea could never have gone to HC… not when the very best school in the whole world was right here in Bim…

• David // May 17, 2008 at 12:08 pm

  Peter we are surprised at the concise nature of your last comment. It is not consistent with the loquacity which you have become synonymous on the airwaves, which you have been using to telling effect to propagate your various agendas.

  Having said what we said, we commend you on your interventions although infrequent from time to time. We know that you are capable of robust debate because in this forum there is no place for delicate sensibilities.

• Yardbroom // May 17, 2008 at 12:39 pm

  Education at school can be defined in many ways. If in this case we take it to mean, “the gradual process of acquiring knowledge.” It can be taken, that the purpose of obtaining knowledge is a preparation for life.

  Education has to meet not only indivudial but society’s needs and within it must be flexibility. That flexibility should accommodate the very able, bordering on genius and the less gifted.

  Our education system in catering for the academically gifted…and all systems should, must never give an impression that the less able are not highly valued.

  The value a society places on the end product of its educational system. Determines the paths and placements students pursue.

  Why is it that less than six professions are highly sought after in Barbados? The simple reason is they bring the highest financial rewards and perhaps most important, a high level of social acceptance.

  We must change our “mind set”, in what we believe are socially acceptable ways of earning a living for the educated. With that change, will come better financial renumeration for those who are now perceived; as not being in the top echelon.

  Those not able to achieve grades to reach the perceived top professions, will not see themselves as failures. With social acceptance of what they do; will come opportunities to attain a good standard of living, with no loss of self esteem.

  It matters little which system is chosen. If “our society” finds itself unable to reward satisfactorily those who have attained the highest academic standard of which they are capable.

• Georgie Porgie // May 17, 2008 at 12:40 pm

  Adrian Hinds
  You do not have your facts correct about Colonel Deighton Maynard, Commanding Officer, Barbados Defence Force or Alan Jones, Permanent Secretary. Mr Maynard attended Combermere, where he was a hockey player. Mr Jones came over to HC from the Modern High in the 6th form where he was active in the Cadets and the photographic club.

• John // May 17, 2008 at 1:06 pm

  Peter

  Why not give credit to the children for being gifted…

  … to the parents and teachers for engineering their successes and

  .. to God for putting them all together.

  What is a school?

  Certainly not the buildings or the location.

  Most of what the child needs to be successful in the detailed classroom work and examinations can be taught under a tree or at home. Attidude is not taught in a classroom by a teacher.

  Home schooling exists.

  My Grandfather almost missed going to Foundation when he was as boy in the early 1900’s because he was coloured and Foundation was for poor white boys.

  His family was poor but there was the colour question.

  He got in I believe because he was the grandchild of a member of an influential family and that family looked out for him. It did not matter that the member was dead.

  He was also gifted at Maths and worked hard. I would like to think that swung it for him but I doubt it.

  When he graduated he went back and taught Maths for a short time at the same school he nearly didn’t get to go to.

  He taught me Maths when I was a boy on a Sunday afternoon.

  All of his children followed him to Foundation in the 1920’s and 30’s. When he could afford it they went to HC and QC.

  Some were successful, some were not.

  Some would have preferred to have remained at Foundation where they were happy and doing perfectly well.

  That’s life, things change.

  Colour and high school fees no longer figure in the decision process of whether a child gets to go to secondary school.

  The common entrance exam has had successes .. and failures. Maybe it is no longer relavent. Whatever system is used should be fair, … not equal, but fair and tranparent.

  We need to get over our past, open our eyes and reward performace.

  We need to make it cool again for a child to excel at school, whether it be theoretical or practical.

  …. and we need to be able to spot the differing abilities of children early and not make them waste their time and get jaded doing something they are not suited to do.

• Bush tea // May 17, 2008 at 1:10 pm

  Yardbroom,

  Careful where you are going with that logic…

  …are you saying then, that a citizen who goes into the field of teaching- and by training and professional development (and by actual on the job performance) reaches the top of his or her field, should command the same salary and status as the Lawyer who does the same , or the banker or (ahem!!) the sanitation worker?

  …are you further saying that in a society where the state pays for this education anyway, there is no justifiable reason why salaries should not be tied to net contribution to national requirements (as opposed, for example, to lawyers who can legislate mandatory minimum fees and that simple transactions MUST require their paid attention?)

  …you see what happened to Castro?

  That line of thinking does not fit into modern government. (makes too much sense…)

  ….the irony is that a top class sanitation person who could solve our garbage problems would be worth all our lawyers bagged together… come to think of it these may not be independent events… ;-)

• Asiba-The Buffalo Solstill too much FAT on the roaddier // May 17, 2008 at 1:31 pm

  WHAT we are really facing is the result of a colonial mentality brought about in the caribbean by our experience during slavery and the attendant discrimination thereafter.

  such devices as the elite schools and all the other social devices , even cricket,were used to say that white people were superior to black people. Some of the same devices have been used by black people to justify than they are better than other blacks.

  If you go to Harrison College , you are better than the other guy because initially white people went to Harrison College and white people were better than blacks so Harrison College would have to be the best-(brain washing)

  Ditto for all other things: if you wear a suit you are BETTER dressed than the other guy, You are appropriately dress even though the hot tropical climate is not conducive to such wear. But no it looks good beacuse when you see an englishman in a book or in person and you see him in jacket and tie because of the climate he lives in. White people are dressed that way so it has to be right , good and proper.—-I say that dressing in such a manner is inappropriate and is part of the brainwashing that has taken place.

  You want to live in the biggest house that you can, even though it is not necessary. Why you want that is beacuse the white man that you know lives in a big house -the plantation house was called -the Great House. White man lives in it so it has to be right and proper

  So EDUCATION is looked at as good if you can demonstrate that you possess what it takes to function in the world of the greedy white man with its attendant racial and social discrimination and segregation. So you want to be a lawyer or a medical doctor not a bush doctor as if bush doctors do not possess knowledge . Initially where did the lawyers and doctors in Barbados go to school ?—your ANSWER

  So we are dealing with some serious psychological issues that can only be resolved by teaching our people our history. This will make them believe in themselves. love themselves and have confidence that there are people too even if they are carpenters and masons. That they are not the scum of the earth, that many bright people were denied opportunities for education because of our history.

  Therefore if the 11 plus is being used to reinforce the class discrimination that existed before, it should be revamped.

  WE NEED TO TEACH OUR HISTORY
  IT WILL LIBERATE OUR MINDS

  Asiba Will Be Back

• Anonymous // May 17, 2008 at 1:58 pm

  Asiba

  you wrote “This will make them believe in themselves. love themselves and have confidence that there are people too even if they are carpenters and masons” .

  I object to the words “even if” in that sentence. I strongly suggest that these be replaced by the word “because”.

• Yardbroom // May 17, 2008 at 2:06 pm

  Bush Tea
  You know I am with you on this! you are being mischievous…as for Castro that is another story.

• John // May 17, 2008 at 2:45 pm

  Asiba

  Islam refers to a christian as an infidel, …. and christianity I now learn returns the compliment.

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infidel

  Heathen is also a word with a similar meaning.

  http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/heathen

  If I were to be taken to a Muslim country as a slave I would be termed an infidel or a heathen.

  Perhaps this is a bad example and will get me in trouble and I should try Mars instead.

  Suppose little green men from Mars came down to earth and took me, and you to Mars as their slave.

  If Martians actually existed and considered themselves to be persons, I figure we would be non persons.

  For one thing, neither one of us would be green.

  Slaves were not brought to Barbados to be converted to christianity or integrated into the legal system of the day or to be sent to school.

  They were brought here to work and do their owners bidding.

  Slavery existed from ancient times, all over the world. The owners here at the particular time in history (1627-1834) were mostly white, those in Africa were mostly black. Colour did not define ownership.

  For 200 plus years, slaves in Barbados were “non persons”, no rights in law, not members of the church, just property of free men and women who belonged to a church and called themselves christians.

  There were exceptions. Some slaves were admitted into the church through baptism from the 1600’s, some were freed and then admitted into the Church.

  As free men and women, and christians, these exslaves became entitled to own property, to worship at church and to do what other free men and women did and what we do today and take for granted.

  No doubt there was no equality but on paper, it existed.

  They even owned slaves, which we can’t today.

  In fact in the 1817 returns, 600 plus free negroes and free mulattoes owned a few thousand of the 80,000 slaves registered.

  Even the Right Excellent Sarah Ann Gill, Free Mulatto, owned slaves and made returns for them.

  After emancipation, it took time for freed slaves to integrate into the religious and secular life of the country, and be accepted.

  Schools such as HC, Lodge, Combermere and Foundation at first only would have had chidren of free men and women who could afford to send them there.

  HC and Lodge go back to the 1700’s, Foundation was destroyed in the 1831 hurricane and then rebuilt so it predates emancipation.

  Combermere it is said, predated them all under a different name.

  Lord Combermere was Governor of Barbados in the 1800’s, shortly before emancipation. Found this fascinating link when I went looking.

  http://www.anomalies-unlimited.com/Ghosts/Combermere.html

  I am not trying to justify any part of our history just to understand it and at the moment this in a few words is what I understand.

  I take your point that we need to teach our history, but I suspect we first need to learn it!!

  .. and yes, I agree, it will liberate our minds.

  Much of what we see today is explicable in terms of our history, …. not right, but explicable.

  Still, Barbados is a miracle, real blood should have shed, but instead of shedding it we shared it.

  We could learn alot from our past and think a bit more about our future.

• Bush tea // May 17, 2008 at 2:51 pm

  Yardbroom

  I have to be mischievous , I am totally at a loss as to the overriding lack of logic that we seem to apply at the macro level of organisational planning. (Globally, not just here..) We continue to plant limes and optimistically expect to reap golden apples….

  One last point I will make on this 11 plus issue.

  Peter and his supporters, by suggesting that zoning may be a way to ’solve the traffic problem’ - are really taking the debate to the very lowest levels.

  …I can think of very few things more important to the future of this country than the effective education of our children. It is insulting to even consider compromising education to improve traffic…. somewhat along the line of discarding one’s children to help ease the strain of increasing food prices..

  IT IS WELL WORTH ANY TRAFFIC CHAOS that results if this movement facilitates the better education of this country’s children.

  Peter,

  ..as man -
  Admit that you got it wrong on the 11 plus, and that you have now reconsidered your position.

  I will still attack you on the other issues on which you are also wrong, (everything else..) but maybe you would sleep a little better….. ;-)

  ps - PWW, DON’T MIND DAVID

  What propagate ideas what?!?

  Try and keep off this blog. It ain’t easy bout here hear? You won’t be able to hang up no phone on people and then castigate them when they can’t talk back…

  …The licks bout here does be HOT HOT. Check with Bimbro before you come here with any nonsense - never mind Bush tea, they have a ‘Technician’ bout here that ROUGH ROUGH… and nuff ‘Adrians’…

  STICK TO BRASSTACKS…

• Yardbroom // May 17, 2008 at 5:42 pm

  Asiba
  I would like to make a few observations based on the issues you have raised.

  However I would make them under separate headings, although there might be some relationship between them.

  (a) Colonial subjugation
  (b) Slavery
  (c) Elite Schools in Barbados.
  (d) Superiority based on Race.
  (e) Appropriate clothind based on climate and culture.
  (f) Professional structures in employment.
  (g) Behaviour reinforced by subjugation.
  (h) Freedom and… circumscribed freedom.

  The above would go off topic if addressed with an in depth analysis.

  Perhaps another time, we can explore a few avenues.

• Micro-Mock Engineer // May 18, 2008 at 2:45 am

  “His approach would therefore give us more ‘Peter Wickhams’ at the expense of ‘Errol Barrows’ and ‘Tom Adams’”
  ——————————————————–

  Actually, Peter Wickham is a product of the 11-plus exam. Errol Barrow and Tom Adams were NOT.

  The 11-plus exam was introduced to Barbados in 1959.

  Errol Barrow was 11 years old in 1931
  Tom Adams was 11 in 1942
  Bree St. John was 11 in 1942
  Erskine Sandiford was 11 in 1948
  Owen Arthur was 11 in 1960
  David Thompson was 11 in 1972

  The first Prime Minister of Barbados to sit the 11-plus exam passed for See-Pee; the second passed for Cow-bull-mare.

  Uh wonder what schools the rest would have passed for had they been required to sit the 11-plus. Does it matter?

  This focus on the 11-plus is a COMPLETE waste of time and effort (…but nuff fun).

  Clearly the ENTIRE education system could do wid ah overhaul. Jus look at de failure rate! You could imagine running a factory, an only 20% of your products does pass quality control?!? …and ALL of de remaining 80% are thrown in the failure bin.

  An to mek matters worse… of the 20% dat leave de first factory for de second ‘finished product’ factory, de majority are installed in products without any consideration of society’s needs…

  What 11-plus what?!? You could switch to zoning tomorrow and it wun mek no difference to de performance of our education system… STEUPSSSEEE.

  Bush tea got to know dis… I suspect he just couldn’t resist de opportunity to put some blows in Wickham.

• Asiba-The Buffalo Soldier-still too much FAT on the road // May 18, 2008 at 3:31 am

  Anonymous !

  I totally agree with you that i should not have used the words -”even if” and I WITHDRAW those words.

  Thank You!
  ————————————————————
  JOHN writes
  “Slavery existed from ancient times, all over the world. The owners here at the particular time in history (1627-1834) were mostly white, those in Africa were mostly black. Colour did not define ownership.”

  ASIBA -responds and says

  The slavery that existed in the Caribbean was the worst ever. It became a genocidal exercise based on race executed for economic purposes.

  It is claimed that slavery existed elsewhere but cultures elsewhere allowed slaves to rise within the society to the point of becoming leaders and even-Kings

  European slavery was based on the racist philosophy of Whites and executed as such

• Bush tea // May 18, 2008 at 8:44 am

  Micro Mock Engineer,

  ….try not to post when sleepy.

  2.45 AM?!? when the hell do you sleep? …and It shows in your above post.

  1. The point that you referenced did not have ANYTHING directly to do with the 11 -plus. It was all about the benefits or otherwise of mixing students of different academic aptitude in the same class room.

  Peter’s point being that the weak students stand to benefit (and some no doubt will)
  My point was that the distractions to the REALLY gifted students meant that they would then NOT reach their full potential.

  ….review this- now that you are fully awake.

  Secondly, you are exactly right about the poor efficiency of our education system.

  Where your analysis falls down, is in not recognising that the 20% success comes from the pioneering work done in the 1960’s by the same HC and other top schools, and by focusing our resources on the gifted. (Compare results in other jurisdictions)

  THE PROBLEM IS NOT THE 20% THAT WORKS, IT IS THE FAILURE TO DEVELOP THE OTHER 80%.

  Since you like examples to demonstrate your point, let us look at Sugar production.

  Our sugar industry is probably about 20% efficient too. We make one of the best sugars in the world and Mr Seale makes good rum.
  Do you notice that lots of people also suggest that sugar production is hopeless? Why is this?

  …Because we have no vision or leadership to develop the other 80% successfully.

  - The factories are decrepit and run down.
  - The work practices are 19th century
  - There is no vision
  - (it took them 30 years to realize that they could sell ’specialty’ sugars)
  -etc etc

  Is the solution to stop growing sugar cane and give up 200 years of experience?

  Of course not…. there are people who make fortunes selling water - and you are telling Bush tea we can’t make a success of the best sugar in the world?

  In Education, we should leave HC and them alone.

  What we need is for other schools to become excellent in various areas of study.

  - A national sports academy- to fully develop our numerous talented sportsmen and women.
  -A school for the performing Arts- so Asiba could REALLY learn to sing ;-)
  -A national college of music
  - From the days of Sir Gary, we should have had an international college of Cricket studies (if we had vision) instead we hired Australian coaches and sent our young players there….

  LEAVE THE 11 plus alone.
  Fix the REAL problem (the Ministry of Education)

  What zoning what?!?

  …and you well know that Bush tea is willing to tell how education could be fixed…

• Georgie Porgie // May 18, 2008 at 9:47 am

  Bush Tea

  With respect to zoning, you will perhaps agree and remember that they used to be a voluntary sort of zoning in the 60’s and before.

  When I entered secondary school most CH CH boys and girls went to the Foundations schools, most folk from the north went to Alexandra or CP and the East Coast folk went to the Alleyne school.

  Over time Common entrance ensured that those with the highest mark went to HC & QC etc.

  I also was transferred to HC from Foundation after the first common entrance exam in 62. I often wonder if I would not have done better at school if I had remained at Foundation.

  HC is not for everyone. I particularly admire the camaraderie of old Combermerians, and I enjoyed the fellowship of the ex Foundation boys in the Challenor stand at cricket. There is no such ex HC fellowship. The folk with whom I went to school came from very diverse backgrounds, and this became evident when the bell rang.

• bussa // May 18, 2008 at 9:51 am

  does having to sit an exam determines who is gifted form who is not in 2008 with well trained teachers I believe that they should spot the gifted ones in their class by the way if the gifted ones go to H.C why shuold the not so gifted do o,levels at the same age of the gifted ones it seems to me that the not so gifted are being asked to compete with the gifted which seems unfair . should kraigg brathwite have to g to trials for us to determine if he is gifted

• David // May 18, 2008 at 10:44 am

  The more we listen to the debate about the 11 plus examination the more it confirms that our people have failed education. We have no physical development plan so we have created a problem where suburban Barbados shuttle their children to urban corridors to make it convenient for drop-off and pick-up, hence the traffic problem which some are using to justify changing scrapping the exam. We have no national youth/sports program to develop body and minds. We have no program to robustly develop the vocations which are viewed as non-intellectual etc. The Samuel Jackman Prescod Polyclinic is a failure because the intake of students represent those who should be elsewhere. We take BT’s point that we have built a small society on perceptions that to be a doctor, lawyer, engineer etc are the professions to aspire to if one wants to be considered successful.

  We have no strategy to respond to the obvious deepening lines of classism which makes it impossible for our decision makers to address the systemic underpinnings to some of these problems. We agree with commenters who suggest that scrapping the 11 plus exam will not be the panacea to resolving our educational problems. At the end of it all we still have no scientific analysis to assist us with this issue. We have an educational system with some components which work well how we remove those which don’t work well cannot be influenced by those who can shout the loudest.

  In the absence of the data which we hope Wickham can use his training and expertise, which the said educational system has provided him, to take this debate into a rhelm where causal issues maybe tackled. We often cite models at work in the US and the UK as a basis for dismantling systems which have worked for us. Our suggestion is that we should be careful not to approach these issues with a mindset that foreign is better.

• Bush tea // May 18, 2008 at 10:50 am

  Cud dear people, let us think about this for a moment….

  GP, what is your point?…You are agreeing with me that HC is not for everyone. It is for those ‘geeks’ whose hobby is academics; who dream about Chaucer and who speak Greek to one another. These are people that actually understand Gauss Seidel and can actually solve six and eight simultaneous equations.

  Tell me what such a person would be doing at Foundation or Combermere or St Lucy Sec?

  This is SO obvious… (and Bush tea DOES understand Gauss Seidel…)

  Before 11- Plus, tests were done at various stages at all schools to identify and select these ‘geeks’ who were then channeled to HC, QC and where -ever….
  ..the dipper moved from C’mere to HC after a year too…

  I personally preferred this approach, but it is neither here or there - I suspect that the REAL reason it was changed to the 11 Plus was that influential persons were gerrymandering the system to arrange for special transfers for kith and kin…

  ..by the way-
  If you want to enjoy the camaraderie of C’mere you will find that you would be very welcomed (just don’t mention the other place when you come…)

  Bussa,

  I don’t know how to answer you. You seem to have a problem with testing…in 2008..

  Bussa, for your information, that is how we make determinations. BY TESTING. It is the best, fairest, easiest, most transparent way of making determinations…. about ANYTHING.
  How do we determine who is the fastest man on earth? the best tennis player? the best vollyball team? ….. BY TESTING!!! (competition)

  What teachers determine what?! Each teacher has scores of children to deal with - it is a challenge to remember the name -far less assess individuals properly just so…

  …after my results came back, my teachers were shocked…..(some honestly felt that Bush tea was a lost cause…)

  …and your second point is identical to mine….

  - having determines that the remaining 80% have DIFFERENT talents, the system should now do DIFFERENT tests to find out:-
  - Who are the potential Sports giants
  - Who are the Rihannas
  - Who are the performing artist
  -etc

  These should then be channeled to the appropriate TOP CLASS schools where their talent could be fine tuned (just like already happens with the academics…)

  …how is that hard to understand?!?

  Check out our national heroes. How many are academics?
  Can you imagine what Barbados would be like if people with the kind of talent that Sir Frank Walcott had, were fine tuned in the say way that Tom Adams or Sir LLoyd was?

  …or even Bussa?

• John // May 18, 2008 at 10:53 am

  ASIBA -responds and says

  The slavery that existed in the Caribbean was the worst ever. It became a genocidal exercise based on race executed for economic purposes.

  It is claimed that slavery existed elsewhere but cultures elsewhere allowed slaves to rise within the society to the point of becoming leaders and even-Kings

  European slavery was based on the racist philosophy of Whites and executed as such
  +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

  Asiba

  Here is an example of slaves taken from the area of the Caucusus (Caucasians) to Egypt, (Africa) to serve as soldiers for their masters.

  A mamluk (Arabic: مملوك (singular), مماليك (plural), “owned”; also transliterated mameluk, mameluke, mamaluke, or mamluke) was a slave soldier who converted to Islam and served the Muslim caliphs and the Ayyubid sultans during the Middle Ages. Over time, they became a powerful military caste, and on more than one occasion they seized power for themselves, for example ruling Egypt in the Mamluk Sultanate from 1250-1517.

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mamluk

  Genocide as applied to TransAtlantic slavery does not fit with reality.

  Cruel, inhumane, barbaric do, but Genocide does not.

  There is no way a slave owner seeking economic gain would allow the very source of the economic gain to die and do nothing to stop it.

  That is totally contrary to the capitalist system.

• bussa // May 18, 2008 at 12:45 pm

  so bush tea are you saying that the teachers at charles f broome primary cant say who will do well in the just concluded 11+ come on man also your analogy as it relates to testing and sports someone or team always start as the favourites because of past performances as for your experience with the exam and your teacher’s reaction you sound like if you were an upset and not a favourite

• Georgie Porgie // May 18, 2008 at 12:47 pm

  Bush tea
  Yes I am agreeing with you that HC is not for everyone.

  Actually most of the boys who went to school with me seemed normal and not ‘geeks’ at all. Nor did we dream about Chaucer and speak Greek to one another. LOL

  Most of us passed O levels without trying that hard. But there was no great effort to teach us. School was more about discipline and perhaps traditions.

  There was no nourishing as there was at Foundation. I had two teachers there that always inquired of my progress when ever we met-until they died. This was despite the fact that they only taught me one year.

  It must be hard for little boys who come from primary schools wherever ( where they are encouraged and motivated ) to enter HC where you were punished with “work cards” because you didn’t get an “A”

  My first son who also went to HC told me that he had a teacher who had taught at another secondary school before going to teach at HC, who confessed that he didn’t have to teach at HC as he had to elsewhere.

  No wonder that little Harry who comes from say St Simons, and does not have the parents who had benefited from secondary and tertiary education to motivate him falls regularly by the wayside. Many of these children need guidance.

  One of my contemporaries, who failed miserably at HC, but is successful in his business told me that he used to be hungry during his schooldays! His parents didn’t have it to give him.

  The sister of another contemporary told me his brother used to be always drowsy because he was taking antihistamines for his asthma. In those days asthma was not that common, nor did we have the potent agents we have today. But no one at HC tried to find out why boys were responding the way they did.

  The very best boys seemed to do well but many fell by the wayside academically. If they were good enough to be in the same cohort in lower first, why were they so far apart at fifth form? That’s why I believe HC is not for everyone.

  Re
  Before 11- Plus, tests were done at various stages at all schools to identify and select these ‘geeks’ who were then channeled to HC, QC and where -ever….
  ..the dipper moved from C’mere to HC after a year too…
  I personally preferred this approach, but it is neither here or there - I suspect that the REAL reason it was changed to the 11 Plus was that influential persons were gerrymandering the system to arrange for special transfers for kith and kin…

  I agree with you on the above too Bushtea.

  Re If you want to enjoy the camaraderie of C’mere you will find that you would be very welcomed.

  I know that Bush tea.Two of my best friends in my teens and twenties were Combermerians. Alas they are both now deceased.

• Yardbroom // May 18, 2008 at 1:37 pm

  It was most unfortunate that Asiba used the word “genocidal” in his submission. That apart, the main thrust of his argument - if not in specifics - was sound.

  Black Africans owning black slaves was based in the main on power, wealth, control and tribal loyalty. These factors can be fluid and change over time, often in less than a decade.

  White ownership of black slaves was based on the perceived “superiority” of one race over another, this justified the practice. It was also reinforced by a belief that blacks were heathens not christian, therefore not like them..whites.

  This belief was “fixed” by race a different circumstance to black Africans owning black slaves which was more fluid. As a result the social interaction between whites and blacks changed for hundreds of years.

  The results of that period in history is evident even today.

  Sarah Anne Gill had a few slaves so what…even if that was the case. She was a private individual, are we to ascribe the moral values of the age on her shoulders.

  She was not a government or a state with the responsibility to legislate or legitimize the practice…which was done.

  What about the good ministers of Lodge in Barbados, they had slaves by the hundreds …those fine christian gentlemen.

  The argument that slavery was around before Africans were brought to the West Indies, is no argument.

  Major atrocities were committed long before Adolph Hitler gassed the Jews, does that make that despicable act any more acceptable?

• Bush tea // May 18, 2008 at 2:56 pm

  Bussa

  Even if teachers could predict performance with 100% reliability, would you be happy if a teacher failed your child because he or she judged that child to be below par?… while that said teacher passed your neighbor’s daughter for HC? (and even if you would be happy with that… do you think that the average parent would be???)

  In sports, can you recall how many times the ‘favourite’ failed to impress on the finish line?

  …and my personal experience…. I was a trouble tree…. even my parents knew that. Left to some of my teachers I may not have even been allowed to “waste the government’s money” by taking the GCE exams….

  …never failed one yet…

• Straight talk // May 18, 2008 at 7:45 pm

  Yardbroom:

  I get it now, you’ve explained it perfectly.

  It’s OK for a black man to enslave another human being because they’re really only bling, and it shouldn’t matter anyway, ‘cos he may probably only be subjugated for only ten years.

  Go shake your head, my friend, and come again, your contorted revisionism is addling your normally astute powers of reasoning.

• John // May 18, 2008 at 9:31 pm

  Yardbroom

  The argument that slavery was around before Africans were brought to the West Indies, is no argument.

  Major atrocities were committed long before Adolph Hitler gassed the Jews, does that make that despicable act any more acceptable?
  ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

  The first paragraph is a fact, not an argument.

  The second paragraph contains a fact and a question.

  My answer to the question is NO it does not make Hitler’s dispicable act any less acceptable.

  I just watched a BBC documentary on CBC dealing with the development the idea of the white race being superior.

  It was used to justify the expansion of empire for both England and Germany in the 19th century, to salve consciences!

  The thinking justified 30 million Indians dead through famine and starvation under the British Raj. It salved consciences.

  It was given scientific justification through Darwin’s work in the 1860’s.

  It was used to explain the first death camp on Shark Island off the coast of German South West Africa, Namibia in the late 1890’s.

  It spawned Eugenics in the early 20th century in the US when millions of immigrants (my racially mixed ancestors included) were flooding in and racial mixing was feared.

  Many of the ideas developed in the US were adopted in Germany and carried to their horrible conclusion.

  I always heard that the first concentration camps were built by the English in South Africa and were used to defeat the Boer Commando during the Boer War 1899-1902.

  All Boer families were concentrated to deprive their men of support from the numerous spread out farms and to see sense and stop fighting.

  Lack of sanitary facilities and food caused many deaths of women and children in the camps.

  I do believe that there was racial thinking which went into many of the atrocities but I believe these atrocities would have taken place with or without the theories because man is a preetty badly flawed animal and gain was involved.

  The theory was used to salve consciences and justify actions.

  The theory did not send the English to Tasmania in the early 1800’s to wipe out the native population.

  The native population was wiped out and the theory was used to justify the reprehensible action.

  Perhaps the action was unintended, but the results of unintended actions are most often the more horrible and take the longest for an individual to explain to himself or herself.

• Micro-Mock Engineer // May 18, 2008 at 10:23 pm

  LOL BT… I concede, leave the 11-plus alone (… for now).

  But… as man, you really feel a school for performing arts would improve Asiba singing?

  ————————————————-
  Cut if you will, with Sleep’s dull knife,
  Each day to half its length, my friend…

• John // May 18, 2008 at 10:31 pm

  Yardbroom

  Sarah Anne Gill had a few slaves so what…even if that was the case. She was a private individual, are we to ascribe the moral values of the age on her shoulders.

  She was not a government or a state with the responsibility to legislate or legitimize the practice…which was done.

  What about the good ministers of Lodge in Barbados, they had slaves by the hundreds …those fine christian gentlemen.
  ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
  There were 6000 plus individuals who made slave returns in Barbados in 1817.

  Ten percent were either free negroes or free mulattoes, Sarah Ann Gill included.

  I can check these facts again, in fact any one can now that the returns are on line at ancestry.com.

  There is a yearly subscription but they are all there as far as I can see.

  There are many Ann Gill’s who made returns, but only one who is also described as a free mulatto and only one who is described as the executor of the estate of her husband, Alexander Gill, who was also a free negro who in life, also owned slaves.

  “Free” People from all walks of life owned slaves because it was legal and a way of life. At the time it was both right and a right, now it is neither.

  There is a return made by John Nicholas Ganson of four slaves, Neddy, 50, Sarah, 22, Elizabeth 8, and John, 5.

  All four slaves are described as Domestic.

  The stunning thing for me was that the return was made on behalf of the Moravian Society.

  This does not detract in any way from the work done by the Moravians.

  It brings home the point that owning slaves prior to emancipation is what “free” people did routinely, not because they were white, black or mulatto but because the law of land allowed it.

  Returns of Lunatics and Invalids were also made because Lunatics and Invalids owned slaves.

  Most times they were made by their representatives.

  I am not sure what you mean by “Ministers of Lodge”, I assume you mean church, and the Anglican church specifically.

  In t