The educational system of Barbados was placed under the microscope by erudite BU family member Bush tea, when he submitted a thought provoking analysis rebutting the call by Peter Wickham et al to abolish the 11 plus examination on May 15, 2008. We are sure that the elevated discussion which ensued would have benefited readers and commenters alike. Although we had to tolerate the chest thumping behaviour by the HC, Lodge and Combermere graduates, we remind BU family members that whether in the United kingdom or United States most countries have developed educational systems which identify and stream children which demonstrate superior abilities. Attempts to dumb down our current educational system to appease the misuse of egalitarian ideals espoused by Peter Wickham et al should be viewed with suspicion.
Whenever Barbadians are driven to discuss reform in our educational system the focus can be predicted to fall on the secondary school system. In the BU household it is our opinion that our primary school system requires equal scrutiny. For some of us who have operated within the educational system, there is the common knowledge that the primary schools which extract the best 11-plus results rely on the strategies of teachers on site. Most Barbadians can list the public primary schools which are known to promote high standards and more importantly a high level of sweat equity from the teachers.
It comes as no surprise to us that former Prime Minister Owen Arthur’s family had a huge comfort level sending his daughter to West Terrace primary school.
The teaching staff at West Terrace has developed a reputation for developing a scheme which is responsive to the needs of ALL their children. Their willingness to go the extra mile which is provoked by their passion to make that environment receptive to learning is fast developing a national reputation.
Another island worth looking at is Barbados, which shows that the type of achievements made in Cuba are not restricted by communism, but by visionary leaders with the right strategies and passion. I guess the key word here, which you rightly mentioned, is ‘passion’. I’ve often wondered what our prospects could’ve been, if even half of the billions being sent down the drains annually to keep Air Jamaica flying were invested instead in education and even health care.
Source: Jamaican Gleaner
The quote above should cause Barbadians to feel good about what we have accomplished in education as a small island in our post independence period. However the reality is that we live in a dynamic environment, as a people we have to rely on relevant strategies within the education arena to equip our youth at every level to be productive citizens of the world. Against this requirement we must continue to critique our current educational system to determine relevance.
Since the Bush tea article we have received several notes which have highlighted anomalies in our primary education system. We have been able to verify some of those anomalies and we hope that the BU family would comment on what are some serious characterizations:
- Many primary school children who have been identified as ’special needs’ within the primary school sometimes have to wait for more than a school year to gain the required transfer to other institutions to match their requirements. There is one case where the evaluating results of a primary school student was available only after the child had been placed into the secondary school system
- There is the case where some primary school children have been able to reach Class 1 and II who cannot read or write their names
- The most gut wrenching story received is that of two students who got zero marks in the 11 plus examination. The travesty is not that the children would have participated in the primary system and yielded such a disappointing result, but the lack of an immediate response from our educational system
- One of the notes received was highly critical of the ‘Criterion Test’ which is presided over by the Ministry of Education. As we understand it, it is a test given to all primary students at the Infants B through to the Class 2 standard irrespective of what levels of understanding the students have attained. As if this is not bad enough the results to the Criterion Tests are often returned months and years later after completion. The obvious problem with this scenario is that the lag caused by the late availability of the results of the test negates a solution oriented approach
- Last but not least is the over sized classrooms within our primary school set-up, sometime 30+ which means that those children who require remedial care are doomed even before they start the journey of fulfilling their right to be correctly educated. The future of Barbados and the world depends on the readiness of the generation in waiting to build on foundations laid.
It is not our intention to be negative. It is our intention to provide simple analysis of our primary education system which needs to be improved.














117 responses so far ↓
me // June 4, 2008 at 5:02 AM
vision, determination and money are needed….like most things
The People's Democratic Congress // June 4, 2008 at 6:56 AM
In the Daily Nation, pg 10, Tuesday, June 3, 2008, there is a letter over the name of one Michael Griffith – entitled Lets Face It – 11-Plus here to stay.
The writer of this piece of mangled foolishness must be told in no uncertain terms that one of the first major acts of a future PDC Government will be to start the process of the Abolition of the Common Entrance Examination (CEE) in Barbados.
So, the writer must properly get it in his head that this colonial, elitist, unfair, archaic and deficient sytem of testing and transfering pupils from primary level to secondary level WILL IN FACT be Abolished by a future PDC Government.
So full of mishmash nonsensical argumentation is this letter that we hope that the writer really did NOT attend the Combermere School. Thus, it is total ignorance of the highest order for this writer to be reported as so stupidly stating that “the breeding ground (sic) of elitism is cultivated during the process of selection of the best and brightest children for the top schools, such as Combermere, Harrison College, The Lodge School, Queen’s College and so on”.
That is among the most foolish and insensate public statements we in PDC have observed for the year!! How could one get the breeding ground of anything is cultivated?? Sheer cacaphonous foolishness!!
The point also is that the breeding ground of elitism is certainly NOT, NOT EVER located in or developed by the CEE, however terrible it is. Pure blinkered codswallop to state otherwise!! Rather such is found within the social, poitical, material and financial value, learning and role systems inside and outside out aBarbados.
Furthermore, the writer is totally confusing social elitism (a social belief and praxis system), which the Common Entrance Examination and, by extension, the Barbados educational system have been designed to help reinforce and reproduce as much as possible, consistent with a long established essentially elitist Barbadian social, political, material and financial system, with the academic brilliance and excellence of various school children of any social, class, racial, religious and other backgrounds.
Whereas, the majority of the masses and middle classes in Barbados must surely denounce social elitism and do as much as possible to see it replaced in Barbados, by greater egalitarian and socially just principles, they must however accept that there will always be the brightest and the best in whatever areas of human life, and therefore that they individually or collectively must strive for – or naturally produce – such excellence and brilliance.
The writer must surely be a peddlar of a very toxic brand of neo-Grecian mythology when he is reported as stating that “such a method enables these selected brightest groups from the 11-plus results to continue through life as marked products of the best of Barbados’ education (sic). Fortunately, thousands upon thousands of Barbadians already know that it is NOT SO MUCH the schools you go to BUT MORE SO how committed or NOT students are to the various formal/semi-formal learning processes in the country and getting good certified results that will mainly get you as far as being educated ( and as far as being called an educated jackass ) NOT THROUGH life, getting greater wealth and power, getting greater spitiritual comfort per se. What a trash writer!!
Nevertheless, the fact is that Common Entrance Examination has for years been failing many of our school children, in so many ways. In one way, it does NOT cater to the proper development of the latent talents and abilities of a greater cross-section of pupils at the primary school level.
In another way, it is illogically based on a single Exam divided into three parts – Math, Use of English and English Composition, and therefore very deliberately does NOT cater to the widest possible extensive and intensive, well scrutinized assessment of the intellectual, technical and physical strengths and weaknesses of primary school pupils.
And, finally, in another way (out of so many other ways) it does NOT properly allocate pupils to the secondary school level based on reasonable concerns that particular secondary schools may well be too far from the communities in which particular pupils reside or from where parents or guardians work, that the circumstances involving getting to and the milieu surrounding particular secondary schools may totally adversely affect the academic and non-academic outlook of some tranferred pupils.
Therefore, a future PDC Government shall surely seek to Abolish the CEE and to put in its place a national system of Continuous Assessment involving primary and secondary levels. And shall move towards the implementation of Full Zoning of Schools barring a few cases that will surely NOT be amenable to such.
PDC
Too Long // June 4, 2008 at 9:10 AM
I never read the PDC posts! They are simply far to long. I would suspect most pass right over them.
Tell me Why // June 4, 2008 at 11:22 AM
The writer of this piece of mangled foolishness must be told in no uncertain terms that one of the first major acts of a future PDC Government will be to start the process of the Abolition of the Common Entrance Examination (CEE) in Barbados.
……………………………………………………………………..
He is right when he stated the CEE will never be abolished. Why, we will never have a PDC government.
Ian Bourne // June 4, 2008 at 12:03 PM
If you check in May’s entries of my BR, like the 2nd, you’d see there’s a lecture from Dr George Lamming – he cites primary school teachers must have best tools to educate children and have most incentives to stay and guide this country’s future
Tony Hall // June 4, 2008 at 12:12 PM
I am unsure as to what should be done about the 11 plus. I might suggest that we keep it and parallel it with continuous assessment.
A True Believer // June 4, 2008 at 12:45 PM
continus asessmnet is bare crap. The rich people children will have all the advantages and the teachers will favor there friends. The 11plus is the fairest way at least the boy that call me uncle could get in combermere. When he get projects at school i got to come to work to use the computer and help he during my lunch. you could imagine what trouble he would be in if he had to do this in primary school?
Ian Bourne // June 4, 2008 at 1:06 PM
How come Japan and France do not use an 11-plus method and yet they have better standards of education?
Indeed – are there any other countries which use an 11-plus method? It is bare stress for the child! I have never forgotten and would not want that for a child of my own…
Bajan overseas // June 4, 2008 at 4:10 PM
I want to come home with my five yr old son and put him in a good school. When I ask family and friends about good schools the main thing they focus on is 11-plus exam results! What happens at school between the ages of 5 and 11? Further, besides language arts and math, what else is going to contribute to the educational development of my child? No one has told me that a school is good because of the safety of the children, school size, reasonable class sizes, good behaviour of the students, good relationship between parents and teachers, good extracurricular activities, information technology, art, on-site facilities, maintainance of the school compound, etc. Right now, I am very happy with the preschool he is attending here, as I had carefully chosen it based on my criterion of a good preschool. I am still hoping to be able to make a decision as to where to send my child based on more than just the school’s performance on one standardized test.
Gabriel the Horn Blower // June 4, 2008 at 5:38 PM
Ian Bourne,
Japan does not have an 11+ but they have an “18+”. It is the incredibly hard and competitive entrance exams for university. Some Japanese students have committed suicide after failing these exams. As for France you could not want a more elitist system (in all the negative contexts) than that of their Grand Ecoles! Entry to these institutions is often based on family background and social class as much as merit and having gone to one them almost ensures the graduate of a leading position in France.
David // June 4, 2008 at 6:19 PM
Amazing that we critique the primary system and the discussion comes back to the 11plus. What is it about the 11 plus! :-)
Gabriel the Horn Blower // June 4, 2008 at 6:50 PM
Sorry I was merely responding to Ian Bourne’s post. I have always maintained that concern with the 11+ is overdone.
Ian Walcott // June 4, 2008 at 7:48 PM
To my colleague Ian Bourne:
I could not help but jump in this one…having lived in both Japan and Brazil…let me share this…
All countries have some sort of screening system…it’s just that we start ours a tad early…
I suspect that using the 80-20 principle…we would see similar results even if we widened the testing criteria and subject areas or did a similar test at 14 yrs or 18 yrs…
The simple law of nature (the 80-20 principle) is that the top 20% will always rise to the top…
Should Barbados be proud of an institution like HC? Absolutely…
Here’s a real example of what happened to a country that abolished the 11plus equivalent…Brazil…
Those with deep pockets will send their children to the best private schools and/or have private lessons/tutors and will be the ones to benefit most at the secondary and tertiary levels…
Abolishing the 11plus will actually undermine the elitism of the secondary system…then we will see a resurgence of expensive private schools that will lock out the poor…and only the privileged graduates from these private schools will end up at tertiary institutions. This is what took place in Brazil…
Some research has also shown the the ideal education would be PRIMARY in Japan (which is very similar to ours in terms of methodolgy), SECONDARY in Europe (France, Germany, Spain) and UNIVERSITY level and postgrad in the USA…of course this is very basic but it gives an idea about the methodologies that are employed according to the age group…
So our primary system, though flawed, has some merit…
The 11+ though flawed…is the lesser of the two evils…
What we need urgently are magnet schools…where students can be identified after the 11plus and channeled into special schools …the evidence of a “one-curriculum-for- all” shows that it’s obviously not working…and we have failed thousands of people with true potential because of a unified curriculum…
So we have to be careful not to throw out the baby with the bath water but at the same time we should not fear reform to match modern day needs…
One area of serious reform is the student – teacher ratio…which should not really exceed 15:1, and new methodologies for teaching MATH…the UK used these methods since the 70s when they realized that too many students were failing MATH…and we are not going to achieve full development without more graduates in science and applied technologies…and this hinges upon a good grasp of MATH…
(I will email you a paper on a magnet school for the arts)
Birdpickmango // June 5, 2008 at 12:27 AM
As I read PDC blogs the theme of abolition is ever present. I am therefore led to conclude that the title People Abolitionist Party is perhaps more appropriate for their cause. Not so long ago PDC would abolish taxes and exchange levies. Now it is the 11 plus exam and elitism even though some of its membership completed very successful tenures at HC.
While it is everyone right to have an opinion, there are some matters that I would not dare comment on. At times I wish that others would do the same. Linking the 11+ exam with privillege and elitism make good political fodder, but does not do justice to a complex issue -the issue of transition of students – that has been long a thorny issue in many parts of the world. In New York at this very moment, the City is breaking up large schools – (ages 10 – 14 and 14 -19 ) and replacing them with schools for ages 10 – 19 schools in order to avoid all the issues related to transition. It has been well documented that the most of the brain is developed by age 13. This places the quality of our primary education above the turnstile. What is the point of having a continuous assessment and a superb transfer system when the primary system is deteriorating. It is also clear that the smaller the society the greater the need for it to have an elite education. It is a tradegy that people deliberately or otherwise confuse snobbery – false sense of worth and importance – with creating a crop of quality thinkers. The record will show that Harrison College, Queens College, Lodge and others in the sixties for example, produced graduates who took with them at least two years of University content. Some of them did their homework with the help of a street lamp. Others could scarcely pay school fees. Still other had one or two school uniforms that had to be washed during the week. The record would further show that there were many primary school graduates of that same period who spoke Latin and Spanish fluently and who were able to continue their studies in UK and USA up to University level, with minimal effort. It is time we stop these negative general statements about a past that will sooner rather than later direct our future.
Birdpickmango // June 5, 2008 at 12:59 AM
Ian Walcott – re pupil teacher ratio
During the eighties ( don’t know if policy has changed ) we faced this issue. Since many of the countries that lend money for capital development purposes have higher pupil teacher ratios that we have, those persons who process loans considered it not fair to agree to any program that would reduce our pupil teacher ratio.
I favor the restructuring of our educational plant that would create a partnership with business for a number of schools for the purpose of developing skills based elective programs at a limited number of schools . Starting with pilot projects the students of these schools – geographically dispersed across the island and falling under the polytechnic responsibility- would graduate with skills that would even allow them to start their own business. If we accept that full employment is a desirable goal we must stop the train that keeps students in school until after twenty five ( UWI) with raised expectations in non skilled areas. There is no reason why some of these programs could not interact with the public just like the hotel school.
politically incorrect // June 5, 2008 at 1:06 AM
Seems to me that a certain School that was forced to close its doors voiced all those concerns to the Ministry of Education and The Honourable Prime Minister and Former Prime Minister to no avail.
You didn’t want to believe what the owners had to say then. Claimed that the letter they sent was purported to have been sent.
What goes around comes around.
You all could talk till the “cows come home” you will not, I repeat not see any change.
There is an agenda regarding the “dumbing down” of children that is far bigger than any of you.
David // June 5, 2008 at 5:50 AM
politically incorrect we have not time for semantics. From where we sit if we have one side of a story using words like purported and alleged makes just good sense. Why not praise BU for publishing the letter? We would have love to have known about the issue with that school before a decision was taken to close but what can we say.
We agree that Barbadians need to evenly align its focus on the educational system. The status driven nature of the Barbados society and the attendant snobbery associated with the secondary school system is making the problem a hard one to solve.
The People's Democratic Congress // June 5, 2008 at 8:24 AM
Let us repeat: WHENEVER A FUTURE PDC GOVERNMENT IS ELECTED IN THIS COUNTRY, WE WILL START, AND SURELY END, THE PROCESS OF THE ABOLITION OF THE COMMON ENTRANCE EXAMINATION (CEE) IN BARBADOS.
We are ABSOLTELY SURE of this intention, primarily because we have long studied the very deleterious effects upon the majority of the masses, middle and elite classes of people of Barbados, of this colonial, elitist, unfair, archaic and deficient system.
And, yes, these wonderful people of the masses and middle classes – the vast majority of whom carry the burden of worst effects of this system – and indeed their most noble and greatest social, political, material, financial and spiritual aspirations, MUST NOT THEREFORE, IN THE FORSEEABLE FUTURE, CONTINUE to be helped tremendously thwarted – as is the case now -in their attempts to progress and develop further in this Barbadian social system – by such backward and odious system.
Surely, we are NOT the DLP and BLP that have long been apparently playing mind games with, particularly, the majority of the masses and middle classes of people of this country, on the subject of the ABOLITION OR NOT OF THIS CEE.
Also, we have long been promugating – since 2002 – that we WILL ABOLISH the CEE in our meetings – both in-house and open air/public. Just read our 2006 Pre-election Manifesto and it will be seen that NOT ONLY are we going to ABOLISH the CEE whenever we become at the helm of the government of this country, BUT ALSO that we are going to establish a University of Barbados from out of the University of the West Indies; that we are going to introduce a system of Specialized Schools for Barbados – whereby ONLY five schools shall exist, with the possibility of one or two more at later points in time:
1) The Barbados Natural Sciences Academy, which shall include the present Harrison College, the existing Christ Church Foundation, Ellerslie Secondary and Lester Vaughn Secondary Schools,
2) The Barbados Languages Academy, which shall include the present Queen’s College, the extant Alexandra Secondary, St. James Secondary, and the St. George Secondary Schools,
3) The Barbados Technical and Vocational Academy, which shall include the present Lodge School, the present Alleyne, Parkinson Memorial, and Deighton Griffith Memorial Schools,
4) The Barbados Social Sciences Academy which shall include the present Combermere School, the present St. Michael’s, the St. Lucy Secondary, and Grantley Adams Memorial Secondary Schools,
5) The Barbados Technological Academy, which will include the existing Coleridge and Parry Secondary School, (previously the Louis Lynch Memorial Secondary School), the existing Springer Memorial Secondary, and Princess Margaret Secondary Schools.
Some of these branches/schools shall retain their names, and ALL shall maintain their present locations, with these structures as much as possible being on par with one another in each of these academies. Each student in each academy, at the age of 13 and more, shall, with their combined parents or guardians and the academies and business establishment’s approval, have the option of serving for at least ten hrs per week at any APPROVED BUSINESS or other RELEVANT ESTABLISHMENT corresponding to what the academy teaches. As for all of these Academies, these shall be run by properly constituted Boards of Management that shall be responsible for developing strong relationships with the Boards of Managements of Primary Schools across the country.
Also, in this Pre-election Manifesto, there is reference to the fact that a future PDC Government shall implement a National Continuous Assessment Program, whereby such a Program shall, et al, be level-based as that each pupil/student shall be required to perform to particular academic, technical, vocational, linguistic levels/standards etc., but based on that pupil/student being assessed by independent assessors, experts and scientists (NOT their own teachers), for HIS/HER own academic, technical, vocational, linguistic, physical abilities, potentials, strengths and weaknesses etc, before moving onto a higher level; and whereby in this said Program NO grades and marks shall be awarded to the pupils/students; and whereby NO schools/teachers shall be allowed to label or otherwise represent pupils/students as PASSES OR FAILURES.
Also, finally, in this Manifesto reference is made to the fact that such a Program shall introduce FULL zoning of primary and secondary schools, whereby a pupil or student shall be TRANSFERRED based entirely on NON-ACADEMIC CRITERIA; and reference made to the fact that such a government shall establish two Rastasfari Schools for Rastafari and non-Rastafari in Barbados and elsewhere, and reference made to the fact that a PDC regime shall establish two schools for Pan-Africanists and non-Pan-Africanist in Barbados and elsewhere.
PDC
The People's Democratic Congress // June 5, 2008 at 8:32 AM
David, where is our very last contribution under this thread. We have NOT seen it here at one of our centres!!
PDC
Bajanboy // June 5, 2008 at 8:34 AM
I have always believed that schools teach too much irrelevant information, and some of the courses taught are not taught well. Five years learning a language and students still cannot function in a native speakers environment. Eleven years leaning English and many students at 16 cannot write a business letter or converse using correct grammar.
Half of the focus of schools should be to teach life skills, parenting skills, entrepreneurship, business skills, volunteerism, spirituality and humanism.
Adrian Hinds // June 5, 2008 at 11:49 AM
Bajanboy // June 5, 2008 at 8:34 am
I have always believed that schools teach too much irrelevant information, and some of the courses taught are not taught well. Five years learning a language and students still cannot function in a native speakers environment.
================================
….Indeed. Then you have to create irrelevant jobs for these recipients of irrelevant degrees. I was just over at BFP reading about an Art exhibition by one Ingrid Persaud who BFP termed as the Barbados Museum’s ARTIST IN RESIDENCE. Why does the Museum need such a person is clearly understood by me, but is clear so far is that this lady needs or maybe is entitle to a job and bet you she has an irrelevant degree to prove it. :D Of course i could be plain wrong on all of this. Somebody put muh in muh place nuh?
J // June 5, 2008 at 5:50 PM
I ENJOYED THE 11+
I enjoyed primary school. I really enjoyed the 11+. I honestly thought that 11+ day was great FUN. On 11+ day I had the opportunity to go the big children’s school, this was exciting, I got to take a packed lunch (fried flying fish in a salt bread and a small red frute, in a fancy lunch bag) instead of going home to eat lunch with my mother and siblings, I got a little sweetie money for after the exam. I got a new pencil, a new eraser and a new ruler; and I got some fresh sweet smelling foolscap paper on which to write my test. I wrote the test, no stress, no problem. After the exam I got the opportunity to lime in Speightstown with my sister and to while away the afternoon looking inthe store windows. Then I eagerly anticipated the exam results.
Many years later my children also eagerly anticipated 11+ day.
My nephew wrote the 11+ this year and all of us are looking forward to the results.
I expect that most children enjoy the 11+ as much as I did. I think however that some of us look back on our childhood with the wisdom of our adult years and see our childhood selves as failures. On 11+ day children do not see it like that. On 11+ day the children are enjoying themselves.
What is the matter with some of us “old” folks that we want to take all the pleasure out of childhood?
Leave the 11+ alone do.
J // June 5, 2008 at 5:51 PM
Nothing wrong with being an artist in residence. George Lamming is writer in residence at UWI. Nothing wrong with that either.
Asiba-The Buffalo Soldier-still too much FAT on the road // June 5, 2008 at 6:08 PM
Cant believe we are back on this subject.
So somebody please explain to me-what happens when you take the top 11 plus passers and put them all in the same school , give them all the help and then call them bright –BUT
you ignore the others , give them no help and call them failures.
just like in calypso—you give plastic bag and gabby all the help: winning crowns even thouigh songs might not be up to scratch; repeated appearances at various shows thus helping them to improve their craftmanship and providing ready sponsorship and all the airplay. you ignore the others and then say that bag and gabby is the best.
something is wrong
are we developing the nation
somebody talk to me !
Micro-Mock Engineer // June 5, 2008 at 7:03 PM
Cuh dear… Bush tea, why you doan put dem writing skills to good use an pen a song fuh Asiba dis year?
Birdpickmango // June 5, 2008 at 7:44 PM
Asiba-
Believe me, ongoing discussion on education be the 11+, adult education, co-education, work skills, excellence or purpose driven schools is a absolute necessary for any small society.
There are many myths about the 11+ test that are left opened ended because of : the political that is intrinsic in it, a perceived inequality amongst schools, and, in some cases an unwillingness to investigate the broader implication of the exam.
When the press carries a headline: 10 scholarships for the Community College, or Only one scholarship for HC this year, it sells papers but does not paint a true picture. The Community College is a feeder school and offers Community College electives that are not on the curriculum of the traditional grammar school. Further examination of the result may show that 7 of the 10 CC winners spent 7 years at HC and 2 years at CC. So where’s the Beef? On the other side of the coin, it is the parents who, choose up or down for a school after the results are known. There have also been cases where some students will deliberately do poorly in order to go to school with their friends.
It is not true to say that students who go the newer secondary schools receive less help -instruction – than HC say. I can guarantee you that the”placebo” effect is also at work. History will show that there has been several students after transfer to an older school works harder and gets improved results not because of “better teaching or facilities. The change comes about because of the power of expectation.
The most significant impact of the11+plus exam has nothing to do with matters you have raised. It has been a reality in many parts of the world that females (ages 10-12 ) generally do better on attainment tests than males. Consequently there has been a significant shift in the distribution of the male population, even though some quota system had to be established in order to prevent the schools of first choice from becoming all females. Some argue that this is why the interest and performance of our males in sports has declined.
I don’t know how well you know Gabby or RPB. I can assure you that both of them understand their craft. In the case of RPB don’t let his demeanour fool you. Over the years he has developed a well organized machine that has for at least twenty five years, consistently produced quality albums and attracted persons interested in research.
Good news for BCC students // June 5, 2008 at 8:11 PM
In 2006, the Ministry of Education reviewed the criteria for the Barbados Scholarship. It was decided then, that from this year (2008), students of the BCC would be required to attain a 4.0 GPA in order to recieve the B’dos Scholarship also repeats of exams would not be considered.
Last month, the Ministry issued a notice that these regulations would NOT be implemented this year but will come into effect in 2009. No reason has been given for the change but rumour has it that no student at the BCC has a 4.0 GPA and so no students would have been eligible for scholarships this year.
So for 2008 the requirements for a scholarship remain a 3.8 GPA for BCC students. However students at sixth form schools must still get 8 grade ones at CAPE (which translates into a 4.0 GPA).
dog-bite-yah // June 5, 2008 at 9:38 PM
When I scroll through these responses and come across anything written by the PDC, I skip to the next respondent without blinking an eye. PDC aholes need to learn brevity. You guys are in the same league as the commie sung group. PDC what!
Anonymous // June 9, 2008 at 12:12 AM
Man MME,
I can’t help Asiba… he needs more that a good song. He need to pass the 11 plus for a good Arts school where they teach singing skills….
… but he does blog real sweet though…
Bush Tea // June 9, 2008 at 7:21 AM
That Anonymous is me MME -sorry
Ifetayo // June 9, 2008 at 2:46 PM
The writer has obviously never sent a child to West Terrace primary. While there are those exceptional teachers who do go that extra mile, there are those who should retire. West Terrace Primary is one of those glaring examples why the 11+ should not be abolished. To much favourtism.
Asiba-The Buffalo Soldier-still 2 much FAT on the road // June 9, 2008 at 4:31 PM
I can’t help Asiba… he needs more that a good song. He need to pass the 11 plus for a good Arts school where they teach singing skills….
———————————–>
never had a problem there buddy -never had a problem with singing , writing , playing instruments or any such thing.
I often speak on behalf of other persons when I do speak.
-not a personal thing at any time with me.
I hardly have a personal axe to grind
please don’t mis-interpret my sentiments re gabby , bag. -that was just to emphasize that people do need help never mind how good they are perceived to be.
neither am I complaining
Virago // June 12, 2008 at 5:21 AM
The Common Entrance Exam is the most democratizing feature of our educational system. You know why? Because it allows both the boy from the Great House tenantry and the boy from the Great House the opportunity to attend Harrison College.
If not for it the boy from the Great House will go to the top private or public school beacuse of who he is.
Bajans behave as though only the children of elites go to the “top” schools. The fact is the child of the doctor and the groundman can sit in the same classroom once they have the same ability.
At the primary level there is no entrance exams, yet we know the “top” primary schools: Erdiston, Charles F. Broome etc. If you check it many of the students at the schhols don’t come from the surrounding district. How do they get there? They know somebody. If we abolish the CEE “top” secondary schools will still emerge and the people who “know someone” will be sending their children there.
The merit system of the CEE will be over replaced by the more insidious class sytem which obtains in BIM.
I know of a vendor who sold outside the hospital while her son worked as a doctor inside. She had the opportunity to have her son schooled among the brightest and best. Without the CEE the outsome might have been different. But at least the CEE still allows working class people with “bright ” children to have that aspiration .
Asiba-The Buffalo Soldier-still 2 much FAT on the road // June 12, 2008 at 10:13 AM
know of a vendor who sold outside the hospital while her son worked as a doctor inside. She had the opportunity to have her son schooled among the brightest and best. Without the CEE the outsome might have been different. But at least the CEE still allows working class people with “bright ” children to have that aspiration
———————————–
HOW SO ??????
TALKAHOLIC // June 17, 2008 at 3:18 PM
I feel the 11+ should be abolished because I find not everyone could work well under pressure. For example the “brightest” girl in my primary school class for all her years at primary passed for one of the new schools, while children that werent as bright but did their work passed for the older secondary school.
That is another thing, getting to that older school was hard but having to remain in there is another.
Bajans have this mind set that passing for Harrison’s u are better off than a person going Princes Margaret but these two students can come out with the same grades, and that is something I see alot.
TALKAHOLIC // June 17, 2008 at 3:19 PM
I feel the 11+ should be abolished because I find not everyone could work well under pressure. For example the “brightest” girl in my primary school class for all her years at primary passed for one of the new schools, while children that werent as bright but did their work passed for the older secondary school.
That is another thing, getting to that older school was hard but having to remain in there is another.
Bajans have this mind set that passing for a school like Harrison’s u are brighter than a student attending Princes Margaret but these two students can come out with the same grades, and that is something I see alot.
Ian Walcott // June 20, 2008 at 6:29 AM
RE: Response to http://www.nationnews.com/story/350885160148589.php
It now seems to me that being an elected official automatically gives one the right to talk down to the citizenry and belittle our collective intelligence as a people. This is in response to a most asinine and stupid comments made last week by the Minister of Education, Ronald Jones.
It’s unfortunate that there are still those amongst us who would wish to tear down long standing institutions that have placed this country on the map. The so-called Minister is quoted as saying “Harrison College is 375 years old. Combermere; Lodge; Queen’s College; Alleyne; Foundation; they all have a history of hundreds of years but society cannot tie itself to what began around slavery. It has to change and make provisions for its people.”
What nonsense are you talking Mr. Minister? Isn’t the parliament that you sit in an institution that began in slavery? What hypocrisy. Rather than tell the citizenry that it is acceptable to aspire to greatness you go off on an anti-establishment tirade. This sounds like sour grapes to me.
Every Barbadian ought to be proud of Harrison College and its achievements. It’s a cradle of Caribbean leadership and undeniably so! Why would a Minister of Education, of all ministries, seek to pull down such a great institution? This is pure madness. He goes on to state that “Ninety per cent of you did not go to Harrison College or Queen’s College but still you fill your children’s heads with foolishness.”
If I am part to the 90% you are speaking of then you are seriously out of place Who do you think you are talking to like that Ronald Jones?.
The fact that 90% of Barbadians wish their children to go to these institutions is because they recognize that these are the best secondary schools in the Caribbean. What the hell is wrong with that? Do you think that people are so stupid that they do not know that everyone cannot enter one of these schools? This does not mean that they cannot have dreams and aspirations. This is part of what makes Barbados a successful nation. So the next time you speak, you should think before you open your trap since you sound more stupid than the very parents you are criticizing.
And we have a message for you Mr. Minister. Don’t meddle with our education system!
Ian Walcott
No Worry // June 20, 2008 at 8:02 AM
Get over it, Harrison College and Queen’s College are just other secondary schools. They are not anything special. Nothing is done there that is not done at other schools. It expected that they should get the best cxc exam results since the most academically inclined students go there to start with.
Don’t worry about Ronald Jones. It is the principal and teachers at those schools who from all reports are the ones pulling down the “standards” at those schools.
I think the government should abolish Harrison college so we would stop making all this fuss every year.
Ian Walcott // June 20, 2008 at 2:38 PM
Would you suggest getting rid of Harvard, Standford, Oxford and Cambridge too?
While you are at it…why not abolish the parliament…I think the Zimbabwe model is a good one to follow…what do you think?
LOL
No Worry // June 20, 2008 at 3:00 PM
Harvard or Cambridge = Harrison College ??!!
talk about delusions of grandeur LOL. HC is just an ordinary secondary school and by world standards a second or third rate school at best (and falling fast).
Abolish parliament – not a bad idea. About 6 0r 7 years ago, Trinidad had a hung parliament (even number of seats between the two main parties), there was no parliamentary activity for a year. The country went along fine, in fact people said it was the best period of governance in living memory.
J // June 20, 2008 at 3:46 PM
Oh dear Ian you are being so hard on Minister Jones. Cuh dear. In fact many people do not seem to realize that sometimes the whole is greater than the sum of the parts, and so it is with Harrison College and Queen’s College. Those schools do not only get better results because they get better students to begin with. Better students yes, more committed parents yes, good teachers yes and something else indefinable accounts for the good results.
And indeed I do not agree with the Minister if he is discouraging parents for wanting excellence for and from their children. I am sure that for example the Minister’s parents were not Cabinet Ministers, yet that did not prevent the Minister from desiring and attaining that high office.
Truth is that many people and just jealous, plain and simple jealous because neither they nor their children went to HC or QC. And some are jealous because their parents went to HC or QC and neither they nor their children have been able to go there.
A lot of people would like to abolish those schools.
A lot of people would like to go back to the old days where students entered HC and QC because of colour, class or income.
A lot of people with money would like total zoning so that people with money could gentrify the areas around HC and QC and only those who rich enough to live near those schools could go there.
A lot of people would like to keep the children from Silver Hill, Orange Hill, Josey Hill, and Lonesome Hill out of HC and QC.
A lot of peope are confused about the difference between meritocracy and elitism.
A lot of people would like to manipulate the 11+ to keep those children whose daddies do not belong to the right lodges (or any lodge at all) out of HC and QC.
A lot of people would like to keep those children who don’t know their daddies out of HC and QC.
A lot of people are vexed because neither their money, nor colour nor social status, nor alumni status, can buy their children a place in HC nor QC.
A lot of people would like to abolish that d*** 11+ so that we can go back to the good old days where people knew their place and the places at HC and QC were only for “certain” people’s children.
But it ain’t happening ’bout hey!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Devils advocate // June 20, 2008 at 5:06 PM
All schools are good schools. I am a chest thumping Combermerian BUT I do not group us with HC or QC when it comes to ‘elitism’. The one thing I noticed after leaving secondary school was that my colleagues at BCC were from all the other schools and some did better at some courses than I did. Ability changes as children age. We, the parents are the ones who put value judgements based on where or children go to school and some of our children absorb this perception of inferiority and end up underacheiving. My mother did not want me to go to combermere, she was a teacher and believed that I should have gone to QC or HC. I would have been completely miserable at either school.
Georgie Porgie // June 20, 2008 at 6:24 PM
J
You have hit the nail on the head!— and very hard!
A lot of people would like to abolish HC & QC .
because
they would like to go back to the old days when students entered HC and QC because of colour, class or income.
they would like to keep the children from Silver Hill, Orange Hill, Josey Hill, and Lonesome Hill out of HC and QC.
they are confused about the difference between meritocracy and elitism.
they would like to manipulate the 11+ to keep those children whose daddies do not belong to the right lodges (or any lodge at all) out of HC and QC.
they would like to keep those children who don’t know their daddies out of HC and QC.
they are vexed because neither their money, nor colour nor social status, nor alumni status, can buy their children a place in HC nor QC.
they would like to abolish the 11+ so that we can go back to the good old days where people knew their place and the places at HC and QC were only for “certain” people’s children.
YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY CORRECT
THAT IS THE TOTALITY OF THE SITUATION
Georgie Porgie // June 20, 2008 at 6:33 PM
No Worry
Harvard or Cambridge is not = Harrison College but it is an example of the elite. Just as Harvard or Cambridge are elite Universities, Harrison College is an elite grammar school and has been so for a long time.
HC is NOT just an ordinary secondary school and by world standards it is still up ion the top tier with ETON & HARROW
To suggest that HC is a second or third rate school at best is a measure of your envy because you failed to get into HC.
In the medical schools that I have taught abroad, I have longed for some HC caliber students! And if you know me, I mark hard and am a tough judge.
What delusions of grandeur what? What do you know about delusions of grandeur you betzpaenic imbecile!
Bush tea // June 20, 2008 at 6:49 PM
… well Devil’s Advocate I real glad you went to Cawmere yuh… ’cause I would hate to see you more miserable than you is now.. LOL
What ‘all schools are good schools’ what!?!
Too many schools are NOT good schools.
A good school is one which caters to the specific needs of its students. One that identifies the talents that arrive at age 11 and which then molds that talent into the best citizen that that child could become.
HC and QC are good schools because everyone KNOWS that these are given talented academics and they have perfected the development of this type of child.
Where other schools fall down is in NOT even identifying where their students are talented and definitely not seeking to respond to the students needs for success.
We all know that they all blindly try to emulate HC and QC – and actually expect to see similar results….
St Helen’s Secondary would be an excellent school if, having been assigned children from the lowest scoring range of the 11 plus, they then held another series of tests to determine where their students were talented.
Next, they would configure programs, curricula and interest areas to specially develop these talents… can you imagine the outputs?
In three years, St Helen’s would be as desirable a school as is HC.
…….as you know, Cawmere is in a different class altogether.
There, it was always a case of ‘lives being in the making; and hearts in the waking…’ …we din care a pang about scholarships… just to be the best Bajans that we could be….
…no wonder you got the pick as the Devil’s Advocate…I bet you was one of that notorious 4c group…
Ian Walcott // June 20, 2008 at 8:22 PM
Georgie Porgie & J…you guys are bang on…I cannot for the life of me understand why a Minister would come out and talk such nonsense…
Whether or not you are a Harrisonian…every Barbadian should be proud of this institution…
I’m trying to locate Sir Courtney Blackman’s recent speech on the achievements of this great institution.
HC is a feeder institution for the top universities in the world…
By the way…can someone say which secondary school that dumb ass for a Minister attended?
IPSO FACTO…I thought so…SOUR @_&(%#*^@GRAPES…
He tink bajans stupid or wha? It’s hypocrites like them that want the best for their children…and then go around stuffing people’s heads with nonsense using the emotive argument of slavery…yet he fights to be in Parliament…to call him a total jack ass would be a compliment…
Do I seem vex?
It’s because I am…dammit…
Georgie Porgie // June 20, 2008 at 9:37 PM
We should respect all of our academic institutions.
I dont know how things are now, but when I went to school, all of our secondary schools were blessed with teachers who generally after leaving school taught at thier secondary schoool until they retired (except for those who took a few years to get thier degrees overseas.)
The three Jones’ at the Foundation schools are an example. Such contunity of tenure ensured that traditions prevailed.
It is the ministry of Education that screws up things.
They screwed up St Leonards in the nineties by sending that idiot Jackson dow there. He was ineffective to lead the quality of staff he had. Every evening students from every school assembled at St Leonards for lessons from teacher’s of what was supposed to be the worse school.
Year after year this so called school was getting the highest percentage pass rate in Spanish.
The Community College is an other instutution we ought to be proud of. This institution could be even better if part time teachers were paid properly so that the wealth of professional experience that lies dormant in many retired persons could be passed on. The current pay scheme at present makes it unattractive.
No Worry // June 20, 2008 at 10:33 PM
“HC is a feeder institution for the top universities in the world” – Just how many Harrisonians have been attending these “top” universities in the last 20 years? 10 – 20 – 50?
Give me a break. HC is an ordinary school and that is the problem. We take so called bright children and put them through the same thing every other school is doing. I can say with absolute certainty that while HC and QC are adequate schools (they may even be the best that Barbados has to offer), they are NOT in the category of “elite”.
HC is living on past glories. Oh Georgie your emotionalism has caused you to forgo the very basis of the scientific method and proceed without collecting the evidence. BTW while Eton and Harrow are prestigious on account of their history, financial endowment and the class background of their students,but these are not the academic powerhouses (i.e. top of the league tables in the UK).
For what is an elite school check the following;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stuyvesant_High_School
As for Cawmere, what is so great about a school that also receives good students and then 3 years later nearly a quarter of them are repeating?
No Worry // June 20, 2008 at 10:36 PM
Georgie Porgie wrote “I dont know how things are now…” and I believe him!
J // June 20, 2008 at 10:43 PM
Ian man you putting too many lashes in the poor Honourable Minister.
One man shouldn’t have to take so many licks!!!!
And by the way I went to neither HC nor QC.
J // June 20, 2008 at 11:01 PM
Dear No Worry:
You know as well as I do that most Barbadian students now go to the university of the West Indies. They do not go to UWI because they are academically inadmissable to elite institutions in North America and Europe but because UWI just makes good financial sense especially for the HC/QC graduates who are from Silver Hill, Orange Hill, Apes Hill, Blades Hill, Lonesome Hill and Josey Hill.
I know a bit about education and a fair amount about internatonal education and HC/QC graduates are competitive with graduate from secondary schools ANYWHERE in the world. Anywhere, including the U.S., the U.K, Canada, anywhere in the EU, Japan, China etc.
If only we understood how good we are, we would be selling secondary education as a high value service.
We would especially be selling immersion English education to all those wealthy people from China, Hong Kong, Korea and Singapore who will pay almost any amout of money to have their children achieve native fluency in English. English is not anywhere dead yet. It will still be the language of the 21st century.
In the NY Times either this week or last there was a story about wealthy Asian parents sending their children some as young as primary school age overseas so that they gain English language fluency while they aare still young.
As Barbadians too often we see ourselves as inferior. We are not you know.
J // June 20, 2008 at 11:05 PM
I forgot to mention the teaching and education mafia who in the good old days held the HC/QC places for their son, and daughters, and god sons and god daughters, and nieces and nephews. We did not hear any complaints coming from the education mafia (sorry educational establishment) in those good old days. The teaching establishment fixed up their kith and kin and the reverend’s children and so on and in their community everybody was happy with this.
No Worry // June 20, 2008 at 11:18 PM
J,
You miss the point by a mile…HC/QC are not elite by world standards. An adequate somewhat pedestrian preparation is provided these students. The students are capable of much, much more but we are dumbing down the curricula in the name of political correctness.
No Worry // June 20, 2008 at 11:27 PM
By the way, Harvard will admit and find the tuition money for any really exceptional applicants.
You know what is an elite program, Jamaica’s athletic program (ok so it’s not academic but it’s still a good example). Just think of it Asafa Powell, Usain Bolt and Veronica Campbell (all home grown and developed).
J // June 20, 2008 at 11:45 PM
Dear No Worry:
You know as well as I do that everybody who applies to Harvard is excellent. And you know as well as I do that Harvard only admits 12% to 15% of undergraduate applicants. Do you really believe that the other 85% to 88% are stupid?
Not even Harvard has the money to admit every excellent student in the world.
And you know as well a I do that Harvard reserves spaces for American children, for children of Harvard alumni, for African American children etc.
Harvard has no set asides for Barbadian children. An indeed why should they? And it is a fallacy to expect that Harvard can or will admit with a full scholarship every Barbadian student who is admissible.
Harvard does have huge endowments, but nobody has gifted Harvard with a pot of money specifically for Barbadian children. And that won’t happen unless you have such a pot of money to give.
To expect Harvard to admit every excellent Barbadian student, or every excellent student in the world is foolishness and you know it.
You know as well as I do that not even Harvard has infinite capacity. Harvard has only so many teachers, only so many classrooms, only x amount of government and endowment money etc.
And the truth is most Barbadian working and middle class families cannot afford Harvard even with financial assistance.
J // June 20, 2008 at 11:50 PM
Dear No Worry:
Can you provide any evidence of the “dumbing down of the curricula in the name of political correctness?”
J // June 21, 2008 at 12:00 AM
Dear No Worry:
I do not doubt that Bedsty High School is excellent. But can you please tell me how much BedSty spends per pupil per year. And can you tell me BedSty’s pupil/teacher ratio?
And then can you tell me how much HC and QC spend per year per pupil, and can you tell me HC/QC’s pupil teacher ratio
Of course there is room for improvement in every school in Barbados, after all we are not in the kingdom of heaven yet; and if we had 10 times as much money to spend as we currently do then I do not doubt that we could buy the language, science arts and music labs and libraries; and the services of other people’s teachers for our children so that our pupil/teacher ratio could be like BedSty’s and I do not doubt that if we were able to do this then schools like HC and QC and St. Elsewhere too could get even better results.
J // June 21, 2008 at 12:02 AM
Why do you think that New York has for many years been recruiting our teachers?
J // June 21, 2008 at 12:04 AM
And the Ontario government is currently changing their law so that they can recruit our UWI educated doctors?
Dear No Worry when you realize what is happening in th real world then you will start to worry.
Sargeant // June 21, 2008 at 1:24 AM
Are you folks responding to what Mr. Jones said or responding to Ian Walcott’s interpretation of what Mr. Jones said? I would humbly suggest that you read the article again as I have a different understanding of same. Mr. Jones was not thrashing the older secondary schools rather he was trying to reassure parents that it wasn’t the end of the world if their children didn’t gain admission to one of the schools mentioned. There are too many parents who feel that their children are failures if they didn’t get a “pass” to HC or QC and he reminded those parents that 90% of them did not go to those schools yet they were placing enormous pressure on their children.
Every child has a different approach to learning and each child learns at a different pace, some are brilliant early in life and continue to show that brilliance all through high school and beyond, some are brilliant early and flame out later, many are plodders to whom learning is a chore but through application and hard work become increasingly brilliant over the years. I would venture to say that many top level executives in both business and Gov’t in Barbados come from the latter group.
Mr. Jones does not discount the academic achievement of schools like HC or the others but the irony of this academic superiority is lost on me when upon graduation the students from HC or QC generally end up at the various UWI campuses as those children who may have gone to one of the newer secondary schools.
Ian Walcott shows his true colours when he labels the Minister as “dumbass”, that comment alone should alert everyone that this is a political attack rather than a substantive one, Mr. Jones may be many things but he certainly is no “dumbass”.
Partial // June 21, 2008 at 7:58 AM
Ian Walcott – man you mussee got some real large cojones to call the Minister a dumb ass practically in front he face using yuh real name fuh everybody to see. Lol. He really need to get out of football, though. I too frighten to use my real name, he might pull a audit pon me and I can’t deal wid dat right now.
Tell me something, though. Duh got anybody atall in this Gov’t you think got any sense?
No Worry // June 21, 2008 at 9:18 AM
J
Read Sargeant’s post who addresses Ian Walcott’s post more succinctly and completely than I have.
I will continue to make the point that HC and QC are adequate schools but not elite (by world standards). If HC/QC are elite then Ellerlie, Garrison, Foundation, Deighton Griffith, Princess Margaret, CP, Alleyne and all the other schools in Barbados are ‘elite’ as these all follow the SAME CURRICULUM, have teachers of similar training and academic attainment, have similar resources, use the same books, use the same teaching methods etc.
I hope you will acknowledge what it takes to be a true elite school of the calibre of Stuyveysant High and that presently no administration would dare make those kind of changes. Money was not a problem (it maybe now). Edutec was a half BILLION dollar program what did we get for it?
It is my contention that if one took all the students at HC and put them at the Garrison Secondary and put the students of Garrison at HC and changed nothing else so that the teachers, principals, books etc remained at their present locations, the results of the Garrison would be the top of the table and HC would be wherever Garrison is now or worse. So why not call Garrison elite? If it takes getting rid of HC/QC to make the parents and students realise that wherever one goes it is an opportunity to advance oneself and one should grab it and make the best of the situation then so be it. We have to stop flogging this false elite/newer secondary dichotomy and open our eyes to the situation and address in a rational way the issue of developing a happy and productive populace.
Successive administrations have worked at making sure all schools are treated the same in every sense and ironically there in lies the problem.
As for Ian Walcott, I can do no better than echo Shakespeare’s words from Macbeth – ” a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.”
Anonymous // June 21, 2008 at 9:21 AM
Interesting posts.
Georgie Porgie // June 21, 2008 at 11:48 AM
It is my contention that if one took all the students at HC and put them at the Garrison Secondary and put the students of Garrison at HC and changed nothing else so that the teachers, principals, books etc remained at their present locations, the results of the Garrison would be the top of the table and HC would be wherever Garrison is now or worse.
===================================================
This is erroneous. The facts are I am told teachers who taught previously at other schools when transferred to HC, wound that it was easier to teach there because students where grasping info much faster.
Before I set off for med school I taught for a few weeks at St Leonards, and was amazed that boys in the first form could not spell simple words or write well etc etc. I had not met nor was I around similar students ever before. I doubt that these students would have had the ability to jump the “dippy” at HC (i.e Weymouth Drain which encircles about half of College A).
==========================================================
Successive administrations have worked at making sure all schools are treated the same in every sense and ironically there in lies the problem.
One of the things this did was to bring the Lodge school from its greatness before the interference under Billy Miller.
J
getting rid of HC/QC wont make the parents and students realize that wherever one goes it is an opportunity to advance oneself and one should grab it and make the best of the situation then so be it. ……………..but we must address in a rational way the issue of developing a happy and productive populace.
Parents ought to follow their children’s progress at school. If they are reasonable, they will know that their children don’t belong at HC and QC.
At the same time it is not best for all children to go to HC & QC because they got the marks they did. Some students were coached well or motivated well by very good primary school teachers. At HC this motivation is not shown to all students. The students are basically allowed to fly- if they could. Those with the parental support do best.
There is much work to be done by teachers in all schools. They must seek to motivate all of their charges to excel. The Spanish Department at St Leonards must be commended for the sustained excellence while working with non stellar students.
Anonymous // June 21, 2008 at 12:40 PM
Georgie
“The facts are I am told teachers who taught previously at other schools when transferred to HC, wound that it was easier to teach there because students where grasping info much faster.” Duhhhh! You are agreeing with me arn’t you. If one gives the teachers who are presently at the Garrison, HC students, they will be getting the good results but give the HC teachers the Garrison students they will get the same poor results or worse.
HC/QC are NOT elite schools just adequate schools with able students. In fancy language, there is little value added as compared to other schools.
David // June 21, 2008 at 1:24 PM
Is it possible for stakeholders to discuss the educational system which has served us better than most, and not trash those secondary institutions which have served us well over the years?
It is a fact that graduates from HC, QC, Lodge Combermere etc have been able to excel in may graduate and post graduate centres around the world. What are we arguing about again?
Georgie Porgie // June 21, 2008 at 2:50 PM
Anonymous read your original post again and you will see that you did not say what you thought you said.
No Worry // June 21, 2008 at 6:27 PM
Georgie,
Yes, anonymous was I. Forgot to type the name in. If you are confused as to what I meant then I didn’t say it right, mea culpa.
Ian Walcott // June 21, 2008 at 7:51 PM
To Partial:
“man you mussee got some real large cojones to call the Minister a dumb ass practically in front he face using yuh real name fuh everybody to see.”
What is there to be afraid of…he’s a mortal man like anyone of us…and when last I checked…he’s a servant of the people…I’m really sick and tired of elected officials speaking to Bajans like if they think we are stupid…
They all do it…it’s as if once they get the vote they now feel they can talk down to you…I had enough of that…Owen did it…Lynette Eastmond did it, and now theses asses are doing it too…
Leaders inspire…not beat up on people constantly…
This bunch is talking a lot…talk is cheap…it’s time for action…
And for those who suggest that I have a political agenda…go fly a kite…I’m an independent thinker and will react to any side (BEE or DEE) if I am adversely affected as a citizen…
My pot dont boil at Ronald Jones…
I go on record stating that he was grossly out of place…
Let’s flip the coin for a minute…How do you think those little children are made to feel every year if we keep telling them that HC & QC are “just adequate schools?” In so doing, aren’t we belittling their achievement?
Not all kids are gifted…they are dozens upon dozens of toddlers who work very hard at that young age to achieve a good 11plus result to go to a top school…yes…a top school…it’s a fact of life…get used to it…WE HAVE TOP SCHOOLS…
Go study Pareto’s 80-20 principle and see that the cream always rises to the top in any sphere of life…academics, sports, business, government, international relations, WAR…
While you are it…a good read of Darwinism (basic in any philosophy of science 101 class) will show you that any which way you flip it…the cream will rise to the top…if ya doubt me…ask Stella St. John…she would tell ya…LOL
Georgie Porgie // June 21, 2008 at 8:16 PM
Ian
Not only does the cream rise to the top; but when the “true cream” rises, they are hated, and people seek and fight to pull them down.
The “true cream” is no longer accepted in Bim unless you bulling, wicking or approximating your labia orae to the adipose tissue overlaying the glutei of someone (that is to say the ass lickers .)
As a result much of the “true cream” has run from home.
Ian Walcott // June 21, 2008 at 8:37 PM
GP…
You know I’m one that admires the Singaporean model…
Isnt it ironic that Lee Kwan Yew borrowed Bdos’ education model from Errol Barrow?
Isnt it ironic that Singapore has a meritocracy in place…while we seem to be killing off what little we have left?
Ya kno GP…what I find funny…we praise the lil 11 yr ole boy or girl…splash their pictures on the front page at 18 or 19 when duh get a Bdos scholarship…but when duh come back to bdos to work…we does run de same lil boy or girl that wanna give back to society…
Ironic isnt it…
ONE PULL DOWN PLACE….! Sad, sad, sad, sad…
J // June 21, 2008 at 9:59 PM
Now Ian. Don’t lose yourdelf. Stella ain’t no cream. She is one who got into QC before the meritorius 11+ came into being.
J // June 21, 2008 at 10:07 PM
I wish that our Ministers would not speak off the cuff.
I wish that they would hire good thoughtful speech writers.
I don’t mean that they should hire thoughtless political flacks.
I don’t mean that they should hire people who will bamboozle the electorate with big words.
I mean that they should hire people who can write simple, elegant, thoughtful, truthful, beautiful, prose.
Ian Walcott // June 21, 2008 at 10:30 PM
J…de comment bout Stella was in reference to when she said, “we are born different…we are not the same…”
Ya know she’s a character!….I was being facetious…LOL
Speech writers? Hmmmmmmmmmmm!
Dont get me started on that…we dont even have good research departments…you’d be amazed at how policy is derived…it’s SCARY…
Dont start me on this one…pleasssssssssssssssse!
Ian Walcott // June 21, 2008 at 10:37 PM
But the very reason why we dont have a research culture is because we are killing off meritocracy…and dismissing those who are capable of research…
SCARYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
J // June 21, 2008 at 10:38 PM
Ahhh!!!! Ian. Eleven year olds are not toddlers. Toddlers are people who are younger thatn 3 years old and who walk with the characteristic toddle of a young child. People older than 3 are properly called children, although the under 5’s can also be caled pre-schoolers.
Language is important.
David // June 21, 2008 at 10:41 PM
Ian all these years we have had a civil service and a group of politicians who have benefited from the HC, QC, Lodge Combermere experience and somehow we have not been able to harness that collected talent to create a research culture in the hallow hall of power?
Well blow me down man!
J // June 21, 2008 at 10:50 PM
Yes politicians tend to like the put down. I saw Owen put down a young woman at the BLP youth meeting at the St. Michael School just before the election.
The young woman was commenting on the Caribbean wide brain drain and asking whether the BLP had a policy position on retaining our bright young people.
Owen told her that when she had the chance to grow up and go overseas she would have a better understanding.
The young woman was 24, has a master’s degree and has lived for years in 3 other countries besides Barbados. Her unanswered question was and is legitimate, but Owen chose not to address it but skirted the question by insulting the young woman. However the question remains and can now be asked of the DLP administration.
What can we as Barbadian and Caribbean societies do to retain some of our bright young people?
Since it is clear that these societies cannot go forward without our bright young people, what can we as a people do to make them WANT to stay in Barbados and in the Caribbean???
Since Owen wouldn’t or maybe couldn’t answer, can anybody out there provide some suggestions?
Ian Walcott // June 21, 2008 at 11:02 PM
That why his ass got voted out…
Thanks J for the correction on the use of the word toddlers…
There’s a lot of work on the brain drain…but some of the stats are questionable…
The first issue is with the definition proper…
BRAIN DRAIN is graduates leaving the developing world to the developed world…so if a Bajan graduate relocates to say Singapore (which for some reason is still considered developing)…then that’s not considered brain drain…if a Bajan graduate goes to another Caribbean island…this too is not considered brain drain…it’s called “brain circulation”…go figure…
The other problem with the stats is that the OECD counted persons from the developing world who were pursuing postgrad studies in their universities…and we know that very often (at least in the case of Barbados) many of these persons return…
I say this because the figure for Bdos’ brain drain is 40%…this seems very very high…but I have colleagues who are researching the issue and can shed some more light…
Ian Walcott // June 21, 2008 at 11:05 PM
You can download some of Dr. Reis’ work on the subject here: http://www.policyinnovations.org/ideas/policy_library/data/01397
Ian Walcott // June 21, 2008 at 11:09 PM
David…do you really want to know how policy is formulated?
However…if ya say A ya gotta say B…Central Bank has a fairly good research department…because of the early work of Delisle Worrell who recognized the importance of research informed and driven policy…
But unfortunately in recent years they’ve not been attracting the creme de la creme because their salaries are not as attractive anymore…
Pray tell me why the govt pumps so much money into UWI and does not use it as its research arm?
J // June 21, 2008 at 11:11 PM
Actually a research culture will come when the business community puts some consistent money into research.
Research tends not to come out of civil services.
Civil servants are essentaily administrators and should remain administrators since that is what they are best at.
But research money needs to come from the private sector (of course some from government too) and the research needs to be led and conducted by the university. I believe that Hilary Beckles is making an honest effort in obtaining private sector finding.
A research culture will come when UWI graduates start to return some of their earnings to the university. Imagine how much work the university could do if every single UWI graduate committed themselves to giving UWI $100 per year from graduation until death, and to leave UWI a gift of $1,000 in their wills. I know that every single UWI graduate can afford to give at this small but CONSISTENT level. Remember our foreparents used to say that a sheep head a day worth more than a hoghead a year. UWI needs tens of thousands of small but consistent donations from its graduates, sensible funding from government and substantial donations from corporate Barbados.
That is what we, all o’ we have to do for ourselves.
That is how research is born and nurtured.
J // June 21, 2008 at 11:21 PM
But there is no point expecting the private sector to put in $100,000 donations when we ain’t willing to give $2 per week.
I know that there are a lot of old ladies on basic old age pension who would be ashamed to put only $2 on the Sunday collection plate, and yet we can’t seem to get UWI grads to give back $2 per week.
Stupseeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
J // June 21, 2008 at 11:26 PM
Thanks Ian. I look forward to reading the research. Brain drain is a matter which concerns me. My grand children have to be educated here, and nursed and doctored here and I have to grow old here. I want Barbados to remain a good place in which to loie, to work, to recreate, and to grow old. And I know that it cannot be done without the young people.
Ian Walcott // June 21, 2008 at 11:34 PM
Good food for thought J…very well put…
You are talking about a whole shift in culture and how we view philanthropy…and even how we view our own institutions…
A few yrs ago one of my students told me she’d rather pay money to go overseas to do a one year masters in the UK before she’d pay to do a similar program at UWI…GO FIGURE…
Her argument was that for the same money…she’d get an int’l experience…
Now…did you see the recent report questioning the quality of British postgrad and their strategic targeting of students from the developing world?
Hundreds of students are graduating with UK Masters that cannot string a sentence together in English…the ratio is now 60:40% of foreign students over domestic (domestic reading EU students as well)…
This is tantamount to buying a degree…Oooops…did I say that?
So it all comes back to believing in our own institutions…
Ian Walcott // June 21, 2008 at 11:41 PM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/education/7461523.stm
J // June 21, 2008 at 11:42 PM
No. I did not see that U.K report. Please post the link if you can. I think that the U.K needs to up all their master’s programs to 2 years and I am sure that eventually they will.
I have concerns about U.K master’s too. I think that because many of them are so short students do not get to cover the depth or bredth of work that should be expected in a master’s program.
Ian Walcott // June 21, 2008 at 11:49 PM
Call for action on degree ‘fraud’
Hundreds of people have commented
An influential MP says ministers must “take seriously” the “fraud” of foreign students with poor English gaining postgraduate qualifications in the UK.
Phil Willis, head of the innovation, universities, science and skills committee, said there was “unease” about the way standards were policed.
Hundreds of people have e-mailed the BBC to back claims by a whistleblowing lecturer at a leading UK university.
The government has said it is up to the institutions to monitor quality.
Mr Willis said: “The government must take this issue seriously.
It is critically important that where there is evidence of malpractice – or fraud, which is what this is – that it is teased out as quickly as possible
Phil Willis
“The quality of our higher education product – with several of our universities in the top 100 universities in the world – is dependent on the quality of research and the quality of the students doing the research, and that must not be jeopardised. ”
“It is hugely disappointing that the academic cannot report this to his or her own university or to Hefce [England's funding body for higher education].
“It is critically important that where there is evidence of malpractice – or fraud, which is what this is – that it is teased out as quickly as possible.”
Standards
Liberal Democrat Mr Willis added: “There is unease at the moment at the way higher education is policed for standards.
“There is a need for universities themselves to put into place transparent plans to assess and monitor the quality of all post-graduate students to make sure that they reach rigorous standards for post graduate work.”
E-mails to the BBC News website suggest the practice of awarding post-graduate degrees to overseas students with the most basic of English is so widespread that it is taken for granted – to the detriment of all involved.
Hundreds have been in touch to back claims by a whistleblower at one of the country’s most famous universities.
The universities say there are rigorous procedures to prevent such things.
But this is regarded with incredulity in many of the e-mails, most of which are from current or former students, lecturers or course administrators with first hand knowledge of the system.
Anti-plagiarism
The root cause is said to be the pressure to retain the fee income from foreign students, who typically pay three times what home students pay for their courses.
Some claim the academics supervising postgraduate courses ghost write or heavily edit their students’ work to make it comprehensible, or that plagiarism is ignored or not punished.
Another allegation is that students buy essays or theses overseas, written in languages other than English, then have them translated and submit them in the UK as their own work.
This circumvents the anti-plagiarism software which checks what has been submitted against previous academic work – in English.
Here is a selection from the hundreds of comments received. You can contact us using the form at the end:
——————————————————————————–
Ian Walcott // June 22, 2008 at 12:03 AM
J…I couldnt agree with you more on the need to address the issue of the one-year Masters…but this is a very sensitive issue for me since a lot of my professional colleagues have them…
The universities have found a way to wiggle out of this by diffentiating between a taught masters and a research masters…
The former requires a ‘final paper’ and the latter requires a thesis…but they argue that the 12 courses required are pretty much the same…
All this really came about when Thatcher cut funding to the universities and basically left them bankrupt..so they had to find innovative ways to bring in money…so by shortening the masters programs, they were able to increase their intake and subsequently their income…
They’ve also gone a step further and are argressively offering offshore programs…To give you an idea…the University of London was in Trinidad two weeks ago pushing their offshore degrees…
In fact, Trinidad has the best set up in the Caribbean for those who wish to pursue an offshore degree…
The UK universities have counter-argued that this income is used to fund research after losing much government funding in the Thatcher years…
Think about this for a minute…a long minute…the money from the students in the developing world…is being used to fund British research…think about this for a minute…
Ian Walcott // June 22, 2008 at 2:41 PM
Tell me smthg doh…de 11+ exam is only English, Math and an essay right? There’s no exam is music or painting or sports at 11, right?
Hmmmmmm! Then uh wonder if there is some correlation between strong academic performance and high output in de arts and sports….hmmmmmmmmm!
When ah look at de names emerging at de top of their respective fields in entertainment, theater, sports, visual arts…ah tink ah see a similar pattern emerging…ah tink at least 80% o dem went to older secondary schools….hmmmmmmmm…
Maybe Pareto was right afterall…
Wha u tink Georgie Porgie…?
Georgie Porgie // June 22, 2008 at 3:30 PM
Sucess in sports, entertainment, theater, visual arts all require discipline as well as ability. These characteristics are usually exhibited by the smartest of us, so I am not surprised at your findings.
My HC colleagues & Lodge & Cawmere friends at UWI were sharp on retort and reparti, could talk shit and make you laff while using the same shit talk in analogies to illustrate the most abstract issues in Chemistry and Physics.
My son and his friends who also attended HC could use shit talk entertainingly to discuss most things. We often think that sports and entertaing and music is only for those who are not academics. Not true!
In the 70’s when the Cathedral Choir was at its high point in my oinion it was led by John Flethcher who filled it up with boys who he taught at Cawmere. They made a sweeter sound than the chaps who made the first record in Westminister in 70.
Bush tea // June 22, 2008 at 4:02 PM
Ian Walcott
I have to apologize to you for my initial inclination to dismiss you as another BLP fraud crying sour grapes. You have made some insightful comments here and I appreciate the perspective that you bring to this topic.
I have a comment and a question.
Comment:
You see that talk you have about meritocracy, I think that you need to break that down for us. It is to important to be lost in such a mystical technical term.
You mean that appointments, promotions, salary increases, positions on Boards, election to government etc should all be based on MERIT???
That persons holding positions of authority should be responsible for the results achieved.
…If these are the kind of things that meritocracy mean then I feel that you really need to be heard.
Obviously you know that the REASON that leaders are not interested in research is that they do not want to be distracted by facts.
The question;
Your deduction that good artist also seem to come largely from the older schools may be flawed.
The problem is that the 80% of our children that (quite naturally) does not fall in the top of the academic heap are nonetheless forced to follow the same regimen as bright sparks like you… don’t you expect that they will see themselves as failures… .at everything?
If there was another 11 plus in arts and music, I suggest that a different 20% would emerge at the top. If these were then channeled to specialist schools……
…and if there was an 11 plus exam in sport, I suggest… etc etc…
In the present system, there are a small subset of the 20% of academics who are ALSO talented in arts, sport, music etc… but now you are talking about 20% of the 20% of academics…something like 4% of the original population per area, rather than the potential 20% in each area of specialty.
It that not the next step in advancing education in Barbados?
Ian Walcott // June 22, 2008 at 5:42 PM
Here is an excellent definition: http://bitbucket.icaap.org/dict.pl?alpha=M
MERITOCRACY =
Rule by those chosen on the principle of merit. The principle of merit is consistent with liberal theory and assumes equality of opportunity and occupational advancement based on achievement rather than ascription. Emile Durkheim’s notion of the ‘spontaneous division of labour’ and the argument of Kingsley Davis and Wilbert Moore (1945) on the function of inequality both depend on the belief that in a liberal society people will be rewarded on the basis of talent or merit and that the more talented and thus meritorious will come to occupy the more important positions in society.
Bush tea…I agree with you that specialized schools might yield better results in all areas…the US has this practice…there are a number of charter schools and magnet schools all throughout the system…and this such a system is not at odds with meritocracy…
Asiba-The Buffalo Soldier-still 2 much FAT on the road // June 22, 2008 at 6:18 PM
Man scrap the damn 11 plus exam and stop making frigging excuses. I am tired of the foolish excuses. Send people to schools in their area and mix up the students .
This old colonial ignorant thing got to go man -
best and worst -this status thing-one set of people want to feel that them better than the rest because they went school this place and the next, beacuse they drive a bigger car, have more money, live in a bigger hoise, is a doctor and not a garbage man—-all this crap got to go
stop making friggin excuses ——-I am fed up of the same thing over and over
IT AINT WORKING
Simple ! –
because life is simple—–it is complicated by selfish people
call me simplistic if you want to !
Georgie Porgie // June 22, 2008 at 6:25 PM
Bush tea wrote
You see that talk you have about meritocracy, I think that you need to break that down for us. It is to important to be lost in such a mystical technical term.
You mean that appointments, promotions, salary increases, positions on Boards, election to government etc should all be based on MERIT??? That persons holding positions of authority should be responsible for the results achieved.
…If these are the kind of things that meritocracy mean then I feel that you really need to be heard.
Bush tea you know full well what the mean. Its is sad that it does not work that way.
From primary school days we were taught to excel. We were taught to do no sinful action and speak no angry word etc. My father told us “if you are going to be garbage collector—BE THE BEST! But when you leave school. You find it’s a party man, or a white man, or somebody that bulling that getting through.
These are things that the young people observe. They see their parents struggling as hard working, law abiding citizens but not getting the promotions before others that don’t deserve it. So they wonder what is the point? Many give up from early.
The 80% of our children that (quite naturally) does not fall in the top of the academic heap should have some exposure to the same regimen as the so called bright sparks
However if there was another 11 plus in arts and music, I suggest that the same 20% would emerge at the top because of their desire to compete and to excel, and because they are more disciplined and attentive. Because I loved singing in the church choir I saved my lunch money to have bus fair to get to choir practice and Sunday services in case my father didn’t go.
I agree with you that there should be a continued sorting of students my interests and aptitude and a channeling to specialist schools. However, there are a number of doctors in Barbados who were excellent photographers as schoolboys. There was no way we could tell one’s parents in those days that you wanted to be an artist or a photographer. You had to be a doctor or lawyer. When I realized that my son was a budding artist and cartoonist from early, I was channeling him in that direction.
There should be examination of children for visual and hearing defects, attention deficits, and along with core subjects those with obvious talent should be channeled in the direction of their apparent skills and interests.
But we are talking about some people in authority thinking, caring, listening, and acting to do what is correct even if GP or bushtea or Ian not in the right party, or the right lodge etc
There is nothing wrong in saying I prejudice against GP or bushtea or Ian BUT their proposal is the best one we have at this time. Let us invite them to tell us more. Let us invite them to help us implement it.
We have more than an adequate amount of folk in Bim (not even counting those in exile) who are qualified, knowledgeable and in many ways equipped to facilitate a 100% improvement in our social affairs in every respect.
Straight talk // June 22, 2008 at 8:27 PM
Hey Bush:
Are you now placing meritocracy above rightousness
Straight talk // June 22, 2008 at 8:34 PM
Sorry about that premature ejaculation.
Encore.
Hey Bush:
Are you now placing meritocracy above righteousness.
The meritocrats will be chuffed as mintballs by your last submission, but the righteous will wait calmly in line, and sigh.
I’m losing you man, what percentage will be the salvated few?
Bush Tea // June 22, 2008 at 9:46 PM
ST
You lost me somewhat!
.. placing meritocracy above righteousness? what is the connection?
Are these not two unrelated issues?
Bush tea // June 23, 2008 at 2:59 AM
Straight Talk,
I believe that I see where you are going, but let me assure you that the two issues are nor mutually exclusive.
Righteousness is about character. It is about a personal level of development that leads a person to always CHOOSE to do the right thing.
(that is Bush tea’s personal definition – there is probably a more correct version).
A meritocracy is about assigning responsibility (and all that goes with it), on the basis of merit.
Jesus illustrated this concept via the parable of the talents, and he summarized by concluding that, in his kingdom, the highly talented will be given much, while the untalented will lose -even the little that they buried and failed to develop….
He also admonished those of his followers who were faithful in small things that they would be given responsibility in major areas as a result.
A meritocracy is the only really wise way that any operation should be run. Put your best people in position of responsibility.
Not your family and friends
Not those who bribe you
Not your women
Not those who are your ‘yes men/women’
Not your brightest (most degrees)
Not your
Not the cheapest
….. But those who demonstrate that they are best suited to do the job. And this potential is best demonstrated by having excelled at a previous position.
…also, should it become clear that the appointee is incapable of doing the best job, (does not merit the position), then they should be immediately replaced with someone who has the potential to do the job.
This is the culture that has put Singapore in the position that it now holds…. and the lack of such culture has been our undoing at all levels in Barbados.
A meritocracy thrives on research, measurement of results, strategic planning, openness, freedom of information.
(you can go on the Internet and find almost anything about Singapore – and almost nothing about Barbados government)
What research what?!?
…as I said, in Barbados, our leaders do not wish to be distracted with facts…
….man Ian, your definition got in too many big words for me, you think I went to HC?
…How ya like mine?
Bush tea // June 23, 2008 at 3:19 AM
Asiba,
Why you don’t go and work on your song nuh? What you talking bout? I thought you had more sense, but you getting on like Peter Wickham now…
You think we want all citizens like you? When you can beat Gabby or Bag we will listen to you…
What mix up what!?!
Stop trying to pull down the best thing we have in Barbados – an education system that at least has the capacity to develop the top academic talents we have.
Why you don’t advocate starting a cultural college to develop artistic youth? you frighten that even more youngsters will come and pelt more licks in your calypso tail?
…all we need is a cultural 11 plus, then we can channel these to the ‘National College of Music and Arts
(…and GP, those that are good at BOTH academics AND arts can choose where they wish to go…)
Instead of trying to pull down an excellent institution that produced world greats like EWB, Tom Adams, Richie Haynes and thousands others you should be lobbying to extend the same system to produce some more greats like Sir Garry, Obadele, Rihanna, Arturo etc.
I always thought you was a builder not a destroyer….
Anonymous // June 23, 2008 at 11:37 AM
11+ is here to stay!!, why? because it is a part of us. every year there is some sort of argument pertaining to this. every crop over there is some sort of argument. if 10 000 guyanese come there is some sort of argument. bajans bajans bajans. stop the foolery. There is no problem with the system tht is here. We have smart young children who look forward to these things. If they know the first verse to Rihanna’s song what is wrong with sitting an exam. If you want to excel you will no matter where you go.
Face reality, it’s a part of our economy. We will continue to produce leaders right here and everywhere.
Ian Walcott // June 23, 2008 at 2:41 PM
Well the answer the debate is very simple…one just has to make it very personal…
Let’s ask a few very personal questions…
1. If you had to go to a surgeon for a life saving operation…and you walked in his/her office and you saw his/her grades posted on wall and he/she came last in class every year…would you allow that surgeon to operate on you?
2. If you found out that the same surgeon went to a fly-by-night medical school of dubious character, would you allow him/her to operate on you?
3. What about pilots…would you get on a plane if you found out the pilot wasnt well trained at a reputable top school in his/her field…?
4. What about engineers…would you cross a bridge designed by some engineer who didnt go to a top school…
The Egyptians long understood this concept of life when they designed the pyramid…which is also symbolic of the structure of life…
History has already proven wrong those who tried to turn the pyramid upside down…
I believe George Orwell dealt with this in Animal Farm as well…(hahahahahaha)
“If she herself had had any picture of the future, it had been of a society of animals set free from hunger and the whip, all equal, each working according to his capacity, the strong protecting the weak… Instead – she did not know why – they had come to a time when no one dared speak his mind, when fierce, growling dogs roamed everywhere, and when you had to watch your comrades torn to pieces after confessing to shocking crimes.”
And in the end…”The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.”
Oh btw….this was first form required reading literature at the older secondary schools along with Latin, French and the Sciences…
Ian Walcott // June 23, 2008 at 2:44 PM
Ya really tink dat ef Ronald Jones had gone to an older secondary school he would be criticizing dem? Ya tink!
Partial // June 23, 2008 at 3:58 PM
Ian Walcott,
Like Bush Tea I also thought that you were a BLPite eating sour grapes. But man, you come out like a pit bull. Like one of those cowboys in the roaring 20’s with all guns blazing. You don’t care who is a B or who is a D. You calling a spade a flipping spade (or if you like – an ass, an ass). Wuhloss! I can feel your pain and frustration, brother. Let’s hope things get better. You go get them, tiger. Apologies for jumping to conclusions.
Sargeant // June 23, 2008 at 4:10 PM
So Ian I assume your doctor, dentist, pilot, lawyer and psychiatrist all went to top schools and Universities. If they placed last in their class would that be acceptable as long as it is a “reputable” school? Is a last place finish at a “reputable” school better than a first place finish at a school that is less well known? Unfortunately most of us only see the diploma on the wall when we go to visit the various professionals and as for the pilot we don’t have a clue as to how he got to that position, sometimes we don’t even hear his voice during the in flight announcements since he leaves that to the first officer, for all we know he could have had a drink or two prior to boarding.
Ian what about the nurses who assist the surgeon during the operation or the mechanic who services the aircraft do you want to see their diplomas too? They are just as responsible for your safety as the doctor and the pilot.
Many people the world over are treated by doctors who were not graduates of Harvard, John Hopkins or U of T and they survive and flourish. This portion of the thread started with you accusing the Minister of saying something that he didn’t, I repeat the Minister didn’t criticize the older Secondary Schools, he was critical of some people’s fixation with them as the only means of education for their children.
Ian Walcott // June 23, 2008 at 4:19 PM
I believe I quoted the Minister verbatim…
Ian Walcott // June 23, 2008 at 4:23 PM
The point is that every society has it elite systems in education, business, government, the military, etc…that’s the system we live in…
Are we talking realism here or idealism?
Ian Walcott // June 23, 2008 at 4:34 PM
If we’re talking idealism…then I have no problem with those who are anti-establishment…but if we’re talking realism (it-is-what-it-is) then the discussion is really pointless…
I believe that if we surveyed the population…most Barbadians would opt to keep the 11+ exam because it’s the fairest system of allocation…
I would bet you anything that more than 90% of the populace would not want to destroy the elite secondary system either…whether or not they attended an elite school…
YOU KNOW WHY…? Because, with the system as it is…it means that if I didnt get an opportunity, my child may one day get that opportunity…my brother, my sister or my niece…so no one really wants to change the system…not even the good minister…
They all want the best for their kids my dear friend…and if he’s talking about “what began around slavery” (direct quote)…then he should get the hell out of parliament…
It was the likes of Samuel Jackman Prescod who paved the way for the likes of that ASS to be able to now get up and talk such nonsense…
I wonder how many of you who sooooooo want to change the system…are willing to take your children or your relatives out of the older secondary schools and home school them or even send them to another school…
Tell many how many of you dont put HC, QC, or Combermere as first choices…
REALLY…
Sargeant // June 23, 2008 at 5:47 PM
I agree that every country has its elite institutions, but the way these posts come across is that not only are there elite schools in B’dos but the people who go to them become elitists.
Who is talking about abolishing the 11 plus? Perhaps it should be looked at to see whether there are other systems which might serve us better. The 11 plus has been around for approximately 50 years, so after 50 years can’t we think of other systems that may serve the students and country better? I went to an older Secondary school after the “Screening Test” and a second “Test” ( the name escapes me) but there were at least three or four students in my elementary class who were my academic equal or better yet I passed and they didn’t. That meant that at the time I had opportunities that they were denied.
“I believe that if we surveyed the population…most Barbadians would opt to keep the 11+ exam because it’s the fairest system of allocation…” I suppose its fair if I can afford to send my child for extra tutoring or if I can drive my child across town to that school which gets “good results” for the 11 plus. I have no doubt that the 11 plus will survive Barbadians don’t like change, they view change with suspicion.
No Worry // June 23, 2008 at 9:02 PM
Over 3,600 children sat the common entrance and we making a fuss about 7o0 of them and “throw” away the other 2,900+. To make this absurdity even more vulgar we tell the 700 that they are elite and then have them pursue the same programme of instruction as the 2,900.
Ian Walcott // June 23, 2008 at 9:30 PM
Hi No Worry:
I dont wish to belabor the point…I think everyone agrees that there are some weaknesses in the system that must be addressed. Sargeant’s post speaks to that weakness though such examples are exceptions rather than the rule…
We must give credit to the MOE for the changes they made in the last few years:
1. You can now sit the exam if you are younger but academically capable.
2. You can now sit the exam if you are not ready at 11 but one year later.
3. There are at least two specialized schools for children who are not at all academically inclined.
So no one is knocking the 2900 (approx 80%) who go to newer secondary schools…all we are saying is dont knock the achievement of the 700 (approx 20%) who came out at the top of the curve…
It’s a competitive test that produces the 80-20 outcome…like any other facet in life…
We dont seem to have a problem with this outcome in the competitive arena of sports…we accept it as the norm…in the NBA, in FIFA, in all sporting endeavors…the cream rises to the top…
This is simply a combination of natural ability and preparation (investment in time, money, training and other resources)…
My overarching concern is that we eventually kill off meritocracy…and I believe the 11 plus was to correct this problem in the first place…maybe there was some over-correction and we now need to come back to the drawing board and come up with a more centric model.
That’s always the problem with correcting a wrong…as human beings we tend to over-correct…and there are many examples where we are now paying the price of over-correction…
Namely, boys are being left behind…they’re dropping out of the system at alarming rates…and this has an impact on the family, the workplace and the general management of society…a system that is failing men is failing society…(now this is another issue)…but I believe the root cause came about with policies of over-correction…
If our policy-making is driven by FAIRNESS, RESPECT FOR HUMAN RIGHTS, LOVE AND JUSTICE…then we are halfway there…we all need each other…in fact…the 20% needs the 80% and vice versa…and both parties are guilty of destroying meritocracy…
It’s unfortunate that the new government has had the opportunity to correct some wrongs and make Barbados a country for all Barbadians…instead of choosing the moral high ground…we hear very loud of vociferous calls of “it’s we time now,” or a Rev. Massiah said only last week…put your party supporters first…
This development is frightening…because history has repudiated all forms of witch-hunting…we have to be careful of the divisive politics and rhetoric…and this is my central argument….
Ian Walcott // June 23, 2008 at 9:52 PM
By the way “No worry”…if you really believe it’s the same program of instruction, then you are seriously misguided my friend…
Please do your research…
Theoretically, it’s the same curriculum…and it stops there…
Program of instruction (methodology of delivery) varies from school to school…
Level of teacher-student-parent commitment also varies from school to school…
Level of investment into the school’s infrastructural upkeep and ongoing teacher training…also varies from school to school…
These are the real underlying issues of ‘unfairness’ that must be addressed…
And to give more credit to MOE…they have been atempting curriculum reform in the last few years…imagine we now have business studies, accounting, dance, theater, integrated science…
These ‘new’ subject areas meant that a wider pool of students are now leaving secondary school with a basic five subjects…I think this has to be lauded…
The stats are out there…
Very often these blogs are based on “I thinkism” and not grounded in any empirical evidence…that’s why it’s easily dismissed as another form of the Bajan radio call-in programs…’OPINIONISM’…
Ian Walcott // June 23, 2008 at 9:55 PM
http://www.unesco.org/education/wef/en-news/barbados.shtm
Ian Walcott // June 23, 2008 at 9:58 PM
Look at the Historical development of education in Barbados from the year 1686-2000 and tell me if there hasnt been advancement and change…
http://www.mes.gov.bb/UserFiles/File/Historical_Developments.pdf
Ian Walcott // June 23, 2008 at 10:05 PM
Education stats in Bdos:
http://www.childinfo.org/files/LAC_Barbados.pdf
Education and Development in the Caribbean: A cointegration and causality approach by Brian Francis and Sunday Iyare
http://economicsbulletin.vanderbilt.edu/2006/volume15/EB-05O10022A.pdf
ROBOT // June 25, 2008 at 12:43 PM
Suckoo was on my tv every nite since my last post–
she was on last nite and in the paper too
is she the hardest working / like to be seen like to be talking minister of government ever ??
an award should be reserved for her
woman of the year !!!! ???
azeezah // November 21, 2009 at 7:31 PM
i want to get 100 so please sen a web