Barbados Underground

The Problem That Will Not Go Away

November 7, 2008 · 127 Comments

Talk Show Host Tony Marshall

Talk Show Host Tony Marshall

It is no secret that BU has been strident on the issue of the haphazard approach Barbados has approached the management of our immigration policy. It became a big concern under the last administration. The new government has informed Barbadians that a Cabinet sub-committee is currently drafting policy guidelines that will see rolling-out a ‘managed immigration policy’.

This week we listened with interest to Member of Parliament James Paul who expressed concern that the social fabric of our society is under threat. He gave the example that he is aware that Barbadian families are ‘taking in’ illegal and legal immigrants who were recruited to ‘work the land’. He defined the threat as the social fallout that is likely to occur to the traditional Bajan family.

Here is an interesting perspective from fellow blogger who runs Pull Push blog. Amit is  a Barbadian of Indian heritage and is peculiarly positioned to give a unique perspective.

It was interesting to listen to VOB Talk Show Tony Marshall attacking the issue of illegal immigration in Barbados. He expressed what the BU family has known and warned for a long time. In recent years little Barbados has open its borders to allow a gush of immigrants, illegal and legal from Guyana, Jamaica, China, Eastern Europe and elsewhere. Sometime ago we highlighted the the Italian restaurant on the West Coast known to have recruited waiters with visitor status. The issuance of work permits under the former administration were issued without rhyme or reason. We understand that since Minister Maxine McClean has taken over the responsibility it has become a little harder to get a work permit.

The point to our blog is to raise the query whether Voice of Barbados (VOB92.9) has departed from its policy of stiffling national debate on the issue of illegal immigration in Barbados. Moderator Tony Marshall seems to have picked-up a head wind on the issue, let us see how far his boat is allowed to sail.


Categories: Barbados · Barbados Media · Caribbean News · Immigration

127 responses so far ↓

  • Global Voices Online » Barbados: Immigration Nation? // November 7, 2008 at 8:24 AM

    [...] Barbados Underground and pull! push! share their views on Barbados' immigration policy. Posted by Janine [...]

  • SNAKE-in-the-grass // November 7, 2008 at 8:35 AM

    The question is WHY ‘employers’ go for ‘foreigners.’ It’s obviously not a ‘color’ thing.

    Just guessing: could it be an attitude problem Bajans have?

    Do Bajans want to “work the land?”

    Is all this a result of our vaunted ‘education?’

  • 199 // November 7, 2008 at 8:44 AM

    But wha he look like!! Wha happen tuh he hed!!

    Laaaaaaaaaddddddddddddddd!!!!

  • The Scout // November 7, 2008 at 9:05 AM

    Bajans are allowed to employ and harbour illegals, especially guyanese, because the administration refuses to creat or impliment laws to punish or revent such for happening. Yesterday Jamaicans demonstrated forcefully against a large team of Chinese workers that are blocking them from doing simple jobs. The problem is not only in Barbados, it’s all over the region. The fact is Barbados because of its strong economic position is taking the brunt of the influx. I’m calling on my government to act speedily to avert a civil unrest in this country. It is approahing the Christmas season and traditionally indo-guyanese are at their worst behaviour around this time. I’m suggesting that the Commissioner of Police play special interest to areas when large amount of these people congregate, places like Fairchild Street bus Stand Kiosks. It is time an affirmative effort is made to regulate the illegal situation in Barbados

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  • David // November 7, 2008 at 1:45 PM

    If we have a problem with our workforce we need to see discuss how we need to change attitudes. Harbouring illegals is not the way to go.

  • of interest // November 7, 2008 at 1:49 PM

    Maybe to deal with this situation we may need to adopt a law similar to what was recently done in Italy.

    If You are going to rent an individual living space they must show proof of their legal status and anyone found harbouring illegal persons then are prosecuted

  • Private eye // November 7, 2008 at 2:53 PM

    Last Saturaday Immigration officials took away at least 15 bus loads of them,and they were deported,I appauld that department.There are too man of them living here, However,one of the young men who was deported call to say he would be returning in Feb,He just needs to pass some change.I strongly believe that serious measures needs to be put in place to keep these people out,even if it means moving around those officers who are willing to place this country at risk for a few extra dollars.

  • SNAKE-in-the-grass // November 7, 2008 at 3:22 PM

    I don’t know that shutting out foreigners is the answer, or that it will solve the problem.

    It’s clear the employing of ‘foreigners’ is not a ‘color’ thing, nor – in many/most cases a ‘wages’ thing. You only have to ask people who employ foreigners why they do… and you’ll find out the reason: Bajans have a sour attitude, and generally – are not as productive.

    David // November 7, 2008 at 1:45 pm says we need to discuss the need to change attitudes. You know what? Jesus, who has been coming for the last 2000 years will get here before. It’s no use prescribing aspirin to a cancer patient. Perhaps the last Government realized the way to change local attitudes was to administer a dose of dog bitters… which was to allow ‘foreigners’ to come in and work and then MAYBE Bajans would wake up.

  • The Scout // November 7, 2008 at 5:52 PM

    Was Barbados discovered five or so years ago? who developed Barbados to be the FOCUS of the region? Wasn’t it the same Bajans that everybody now saying is no good? An accent and cheap, sometimes unprofessional work, is want some employers are clinging to. I know some of these houses guyanese “contractors ” are building will fall if we get high winds. They build the floor, build walls and just drop steel down in the block. There is no connection to the foundation, one hard kick and that wall can come down, but that is what you pay for that is what you get.

  • Negroman // November 7, 2008 at 6:29 PM

    This problem will persist until we have a complete overhaul of our immigration,customs & police departments.I speak from a position of authority that this present government is committed to confront & deal with this illegal immigration matter in practical,firm & humane way.It recognises the potential problems that could develop if unchecked inflow of immigrants are allow with no controls in place.I am aware that the concerns expressed by Barbadians are being taken into consideration by the relevant authorities.However,the government policy on this matter is being fustrated by members of the immigration,customs & police departments of Barbados.We have members of those departments actively assisting illegal immigrants especially the Indo-Guyanese scums to obtain work permits & status in this country.This is factual because I know of many cases of this nature.
    Reently on my return trip to Barbados on the plane were Barbadian & Indo-Guyanese in the row in front of me.A conversation developed between the two .I was not interested in the conversation but I overheard the Barbadian telling the Indo_Guyanese that he was having difficulty getting his Guyanese girlfriend a work permit and status in Barbados.The Indo-Guyanese indicated to the Barbadian that would not be a problem for him bcause he has his contacts in the immigration department and he is going to get everything organise for him.As the conversation developed I wsa made to understand from that conversation thet the Indo-Guyanese is a businessman in Barbados and he indicated that he lives in St James area
    I highlighted this story to show the enormity of the problem the government has on its hand.
    I can honestly say that Minister maxine McClean and the senior members of her ministry are determine to address this problem in a very serious way.However,Maxine McClean & many of her senior members of staff are fustrated.
    It would not surprise me if Minister Maxine McClean resign due to sheer fustration.

  • General Lee // November 7, 2008 at 6:36 PM

    “Bajans have a sour attitude, and generally – are not as productive.”

    The abundance of successful companies in Barbados, employing mainly Bajans, forces one to question the above statement.

  • General Lee // November 7, 2008 at 6:56 PM

    As the construction boom cools, a lot of illegal immigrants are going to be unemployed. Bajan workers will not allow bread to be taken from their mouths to feed others. Employers who attempt to do this, will quickly find out, that all the docile foolish bajans dead and buried.
    Barbados get ready for when it is “brek fa ya self” time.

  • JC // November 7, 2008 at 7:24 PM

    We are not shutting out foreingers we are saying that home drums should beat first if anything is left ove rtake it dont tell me that my children shoudl suffer and yours live, that is not fair!

  • Chris Halsall // November 7, 2008 at 7:40 PM

    While a great man does great things…

    Little people do little things…

    It’s like watching little children do little things on little tricycles…

    “Ding! Ding! (Honk! Honk!) ((Zoom!!! Zoom!!!))

    “Look at me! Look at me!

    “I’m big! I’m big!

    “Look at me! Look at me!

    “Won’t someone please look at me??? [Ding! Ding! Ding!] [Honk?] [Honk?...]

  • General Lee // November 7, 2008 at 8:38 PM

    A dog once chased a mongoose into a dead end. While running, the mongoose realised he would be trapped. Seeing no way out, he suddenly turned and started running towards the dog.

    Ef yuh bak a boar cat inta a cornuh, e will cut yuh troat.

  • Chris Halsall // November 7, 2008 at 8:49 PM

    @General Lee: “Ef yuh bak a boar cat inta a cornuh, e will cut yuh troat.

    One possibility. Another is that he will die…

    These two possibilities are not the entire available solution space…

  • General Lee // November 7, 2008 at 9:13 PM

    At least he would not have died running
    away.

    Illegal immigration has it beneficiaries among those charged to prevent it.
    The problem is that the average man can do little, legally, other than talk on this issue.
    If you know otherwise please educate the children.
    Free of charge of course. :-D

  • JC // November 7, 2008 at 10:16 PM

    stupse wannah wait and see then! intellectual lot ha ha ha halol lol!stupse!

  • Bonny Peppa/Ms.Obama // November 7, 2008 at 11:43 PM

    Oh Lord, look my sweetheart Mr. Tony Marshall. I too Luvs he, hear. And de sarcasm too. He too sweet. (smooches)
    JC,
    You like you scared to say dat we ’shutting out foreigneers’, so I gun say it for ya. “Would all foreigneers, legal and illegal, especially de Guyanese, please GO HOME.We love you but we would prefer your room than your comfort. This 166sq. mls. can’t absord you coming in in swarms like flies or bees. What started out as a social event has turned into an unruly mob. Please go home and build your country. We can’t afford it.
    We love you all but not enough to miss you,so please leave.
    To those who say that we are lazy and don’t like to work, I ask one question:
    What fly was doing before dog ear get cut?
    Now go home.

  • Bonny Peppa // November 8, 2008 at 12:02 AM

    It looks as if Maxine Mclean cornered Negroman. You cornered also because Thompson declare he grandparents are Guyanese. We got Sinckler who claim he is Guyanese. We got ‘I man’ Kellman who celebrate with the Guyanese and Faria at Browns Beach. I nearly forget Suckoo who look more Guyanese than the Guyanese. Negroman you nor Maxine cant win this one boy the Guyanese here to stay.
    How ya like ma?

  • David // November 8, 2008 at 1:57 AM

    Barbados does not want to offend. We feel that if we take action against illegals we maybe perceived as being hostile and the friendly and passive people that we are, we do not want to upset other countries.

    Yet we look around the world and countries are all looking to ensure home drums beat first.We prefer to wait until all hell breaks loose before we react.

  • The People's Democratic Congress // November 8, 2008 at 8:31 AM

    We heard a recent radio news report that suggested that the Prime Minister of Barbados was saying that foreign investors should at this time of local recession be allowed to raise local capital to finish some of their stalled projects in Barbados. He was reported then as projecting that this was an idea coming out of recent so-called national economic consultations.

    While we believe that foreign investors have long been using local finance to assist in the carrying out of some projects in Barbados, and while we are NOT exactly sure about what kind of foreign investors the prime minister was talking about, we in the PDC would nevertheless strongly strenously object to any government policy that has this kind of wuffless stupid backward philosophy at its core or anywhere residing in it.

    The truth of the matter is that such an idea would be anti-thetical to some important aspects of foreign investment. Foreign investors are supposed to, et al, bring into the country foreign capital for the needs of country and to transfer knowledges to it.

    But to see a situation whereby government’s economic financial policy would be fashioned to actively help foreign investors – who are already seriously viciously exploiting many of the masses and middle classes of people of Barbados – get local finance – which itself would be used to help cruelly exploit these masses and middle classes more and more – is so sickening to think about, and esp. when many of these foreign investors are into the dangerous practice of buying up or helping “sell” our precious scarce lands to foreigners, and esp. when the local private sector is generally NOT able to secure as much finance as possible to carry out their own projects, because in many ways the government is preventing many within the same local private sector from getting enough financing for their projects because it is over borrowing locally. So, to see foreign investors adding to their burdens would be so distressing, unstrategic and anti-national developmentalist.

    Finally, what such a woefully inadequate philosophy would indicate is the failure of the this DLP Government to properly come up with the right, sustainable and well organized policies to country out of this severe recession.

    PDC

  • The People's Democratic Congress // November 8, 2008 at 8:34 AM

    Inadvertence: second last line – insert “get this” between “to” and “country”.

    PDC

  • SNAKE-in-the-grass // November 8, 2008 at 9:30 AM

    To: The Scout ~ you asked “Wasn’t it the same Bajans that everybody now saying is no good?” Yes Bajans USED to be. But Wednesday is not Monday. Things have changed.

    To General Lee: Instead of formulating opinions based on imagination, you should base them on actual fact. You need to talk to the people who employ ‘foreigners’ and learn directly what the differences are.

  • General Lee // November 8, 2008 at 9:53 AM

    @ SNAKE-in-the-grass

    Where is the fact in your statement?
    What evidence do these employers that you talk to have?
    Who are these “foreigners” that you are referring to?

  • SNAKE-in-the-grass // November 8, 2008 at 9:58 AM

    By the way, I have an observation. I travel the Caribbean a lot. Here’s what I’ve noticed… in countries like Cuba and the Dominican Republic ‘the average person’ is poor or almost poor ~ and you find their disposition is cheerful, gracious, friendly… and most of them have a smile.

    In Barbados ‘the average person’ is better off … they have their cable TV, brand name sneakers, a car, etc… and the snooty attitude to go along with it.

    It’s an interesting psychological observation that can probably be noticed all over the world – that the “better off” a person is, is the more arrogant and conceited they usually are. We see this locally with the rich tourists who come here.

    Bajans have followed the pattern. They are, in comparrison to many other countries, “better off” and their insolent frame of mind shows it.

    This is why I keep questioning… what really is ‘education’ ? ? ?

    Here is what it boils down to:

    The attitudinal problem Bajans have is not going to go away any time soon.

    The axis of business is efficiency, and Bajan employers will employ Bajans who want to work and work efficiently. Then they will fill the remaining positions with ‘foreigners.’

    The simple facts of life.

  • So mote it be // November 8, 2008 at 10:02 AM

    Have you heard of the passing of Byron Lee?

    http://www.carib101.com/byron-lee.htm

    Many, if not most, bloggers reading here will remember Byron Lee and the Dragonaires. I was one of the crowd who attended his first ’show’ here in Barbados – at the Empire Theatre – somewhere around 1960. What a night that was! His was the first real band Bajans of the day were treated to… “in those days” all that was going down locally were ‘guitar bands’ playing boleros…

  • So mote it be // November 8, 2008 at 10:05 AM

    General Lee – good morning Sir. The suggestion was given you… follow it up unless you are frightened to it: go and talk to the people who employ ‘foreigners’ and learn first hand why they do it.

    Then you will walk in the light.

    Over and out

  • General Lee // November 8, 2008 at 10:16 AM

    @ SNAKE-in-the-grass

    I have previously worked among “foreigners” and am presently working with an employer who employs “foreigners”.

    A LEGAL “foreigner” and a bajan working under similar conditions (same pay for same work) will produce the same.
    This equation differs greatly when an an ILLEGAL “foreigner” is involved. No sensible employer will support unproductive employees, as it is bad for business.
    Any honest employer will tell you this. If they say otherwise, tell them to show you the evidence.

    This talk about unproductive bajans is a myth created by snakes in the grass like you.

  • Bush tea // November 8, 2008 at 10:23 AM

    OK – In a manner of speaking, Snake ITG may have a point.
    Bajans HAVE changed.
    This country has come a LONG way on the last 50 years. OBVIOUSLY things would have had to change.

    One of the changes has been that workers are MUCH more aware, intelligent, ambitious and independent than ever before.
    They can also be much more PRODUCTIVE as a result of the changes outlined.
    HOWEVER !!!!
    …there have been no commensurate improvements in the MANAGEMENT systems that we have in place. These continue to be typified by the same semi-literate, ‘us and them’ – plantation attitude that prevailed 100 years ago.
    Most of our businesses are run like plantations- with the ‘bosses’ – even the little one-door-shop kind, giving ‘orders’ while they run from luncheon to dinner to ‘conference’ in their BMWs and then expect their ‘workers’ to kick the business into shape….. IDIOTS!!!

    Since this does not work, they look for the kind of ‘workers’ who fit their management abilities – poor, starving, low-class immigrants -who can be ‘sent back at a whim’ easily meets the bill.
    Everyone knows that when the ‘lazy’ Bajan worker finds him or herself in a modern establishment with enlightened management, the results are almost ALWAYS outstanding and impressive – be it abroad or here in one of the few well managed establishments.

    The problem then is not the ‘laziness’ of Bajan workers – but the ignorance and incompetence of Bajan managers – from the very top to the very bottom.
    I am surprised that this is not obvious. Bush tea has been highlighting this issue for months now – from Education, to UWI, to CSME to the ABC to the VECO scams – pathetic management leading to stealing and waste…. and bloggers continue to accept this as ok???

    What hope what?!?

  • General Lee // November 8, 2008 at 10:34 AM

    “Here’s what I’ve noticed… in countries like Cuba and the Dominican Republic ‘the average person’ is poor or almost poor ~ and you find their disposition is cheerful, gracious, friendly… and most of them have a smile.

    In Barbados ‘the average person’ is better off … they have their cable TV, brand name sneakers, a car, etc… and the snooty attitude to go along with it.”

    It is not easy to maintain this lifestyle in Barbados as you would know if you live here.
    People are not happy when they have to live from pay cheque to pay cheque.

    Give them the opportunity to earn extra income and you will see production. :-)

    “the “better off” a person is, is the more arrogant and conceited they usually are.”
    Agree ………generally

  • General Lee // November 8, 2008 at 10:39 AM

    My grandmother always used to say; nothing is better than a dose of Bush Tea. :-)

  • Technician // November 8, 2008 at 10:43 AM

    Well said Bush Tea!!

  • David // November 8, 2008 at 11:36 AM

    Why must we always the one to challenge Bt, besides Inkwell of course :-)

    Bt your analysis/diagnosis is intellectually sound. Do you think though that the nuances of West Indian societies like nepotism, favourtism rooted from our smallness, political yardfowlism, system of government which is skewed towards socialist which means governments are the biggest investors, employers managed by our civil service which is inefficient/not performace driven.

    No tell us Bt when we add all of these issues together, and they are by no means exhaustive, does this environment lend itself to being receptive to modern management practices?

    We forgot about the trade unions who still use an approach which served them well back in the old days when they negotiated for the sugar workers.

  • Bush tea // November 8, 2008 at 12:54 PM

    David,
    Nepotism, small-mindedness and ‘yardfowlism’ are not ‘Bajan traits’- these exist all over the world. We just happen to be so small that it is difficult not to be obvious.

    If I were to say what Bush tea thinks differentiates us from others, then you will be glad to know that everyone (- especially Inkwell, ST and MME) will join you in sharing licks in the bush tea….
    …but who cares?
    Bajans have very little PRIDE in ourselves. We undervalue our self-worth. As a result, we never stand up for our beliefs, we allow all kinds of excrement to happen and our response is ALWAYS “let’s forgive and move on….”
    This only leads to more excrement… etc.

    EWB referred to it in terms of ‘mirror image…’

    As a result, we now have a tradition of idiots assuming positions of leadership at all levels, failing BADLY, stealing, wasting resources, messing up and we all accept this like SHEEP. ….and move on to the next set of idiots while the ‘failures’ retire with our money.

    I could not believe my ears when Mia recently said that the wastage outlined by Dr Estwick was “not their fault – it was caused by poor design!!! “
    *Who hired the designers?
    *Who agreed to and signed the contracts?
    *What steps were taken to make the lousy designers PAY for their mistakes?
    ….or was this not possible because of ‘special arrangements’ with those poor designers?

    …but then again she also said that she did not know about the ABC fiasco….

    David-
    Do you realize that when the prison burnt down our ARMY and POLICE were in control of the place? That sounds right to you? …. That a number of unarmed prisoners, who had been corralled in an outdoor pen bypassed armed soldiers , police and prison guards and burnt down a stone building?
    …and dat dun just so????? After a quick arrangement with VECO to the tune of hundreds of millions of our dollars?????

    …and now this new lot has been here for 10 months and are yet to outline where we are with the VERY ISSUES that they raised in protest against the last lot of jokers.

    Nothing clear on immigration!
    On the ABC ? no flyovers- but what, and why?!?!
    NO policy on beach land speculation.
    An idiotic stand on land taxes….
    …and even when positions ARE stated, these are unilateral positions which assume that these ‘bosses’ know all and that our inputs are useless…

    …you follow my drift – SAME PLANTATION APPROACH.

    THIS IS THE PROBLEM.

    As a society develops, ALL aspects need to move forward together. If anything, LEADERSHIP should develop in advance of everything else.
    In our case, we have advanced education, advanced infrastructure, advanced communication systems, and advanced expectations (generally by importing vision from overseas) but our plantations have continued to sit on top of it all.

    You and I both know that the unions are just another type of plantation – just that they do not actually produce anything….and their managers get to keep their cork hats for life…

    …..why you don’t stop provoking the Bush Tea nuh???

  • Bush tea // November 8, 2008 at 3:28 PM

    Cat got your pen David?

    To answer your specific question
    ***********************************
    ” does this environment lend itself to being receptive to modern management practices?”
    **********************************
    Absolutely !! except for want of a population with GUTS and PRIDE.

  • David // November 8, 2008 at 3:44 PM

    Bt you should know better just that we have been away from the keyboard for awhile!

    We look at the political parties/politicians and we see that they have similar ideologies/philosophies, all them went to the same schools. This is a point we can develop later which is relevant to forging a new way of thinking/managing.

    Many of our managers now have masters, doctorates and other qualifications which suggest that theoretically they should be armed with the concepts/knowledge to confront most situations in the workplaces from developing strategies, to rolling out tactical plans to harnessing the human resources to give lift to what is hoped to be achieved.

    Bt you should know that good management practices will not fall from the sky. The economic power in the country is still concentrated in the hands of a few and it does not matter how enthusiastic a manager is for him/her to do the job they must feel empowered.

    In Barbados we suspect that we have an army of managers/politicians whose behaviour is no more than we would see from a flock of sheep. When will the revolution come?

  • Micro Mock Engineer // November 8, 2008 at 3:47 PM

    LOL… man Bush tea… you en holding no punches today.

    David, watch yuhself with the bush man when he in dis kinda form :-)

  • Bush tea // November 8, 2008 at 5:15 PM

    Man David – Try and listen to MME yuh… cause you falling into a Bush trap….

    First thing: Degrees, Masters and Phd’s aint got ONE pang to do with management (or leadership)….

    I maintain that these things only mean that these people could afford to sit in some college for a few years….
    They usually learn a few things, but generally little to do with LEADERSHIP…. and Bush tea got some of those little letters by he name too, so I am being honest.

    SECOND thing;
    Good management practices DOES ‘fall from the sky’ in a manner of speaking. This is EXACTLY why we are so short on it…. (If it came from degrees we would be sitting pretty…)

    It comes from WISDOM, David and that comes from only one source….(believe it or not)

    Interestingly, that makes it available to all -but somehow it has become almost non existent. You go figure… or ask MME -that Blogger knows a lot of draft…

    Thirdly, I know that you ain’t fraid to express your ideas David. I have the greatest admiration for you – as man!!!
    You demonstrate a humanness, compassion, fairness and openness to ideas that is outstanding by any measure – and mind boggling for a Bajan.
    Tell us the truth – weh you really come from?

  • Negroman // November 8, 2008 at 5:30 PM

    Bush Tea
    I am not into the intellectual discourse that you, David and the other bloggers are into at this moment.I support your points.We need committed,serious people who recognize real problems and have real solutions to deal effectively with those problems.We do not need people with all types of fancy initials behind their names and sweet sounding titles at the beginning of their names.
    I agreed we have replaced one set of bunglers with another set of bunglers who appear not to have any clear cut policy on any issue especially this immigration issue.
    I believe simple solutions should be use for simple problems.This illegal immigration issue is a simple problem.Once an individual is illegal and has broken our immigration laws the simple thing to is deportation.
    There is no need for any special sub-committee of cabinet to deal with this issue.
    Illegals should be deported henceforth.

  • Technician // November 8, 2008 at 5:35 PM

    This is better than any debate I have ever heard or seen….keep it going Bush Tea and David….I am your student.

    And Mia said the blogs are a threat….she damn right…..educate the sheeple Bush Tea.

  • Bush tea // November 8, 2008 at 5:50 PM

    Negroman,

    I real glad that you came in at this point. I really don’t know what ‘intellectual discourse’ you think that me and David into – we talking down-to-earth common sense here (if we want high intellectual stuff we does ask MME)

    I admire your simple to-the-point approach. I also like your intestinal fortitude. You remind me of my old man who left school at 14 and even years after his death, he continues to be the model that I would some day like to equal when it comes to wisdom and common sense.

    The problems of this world are admittedly complex because of the complex technologies that we have adopted, and because many of those who should enforce the laws have hidden agendas, but right is still right and wrong is still wrong.

    I understand you strong feelings on the issues that you support – and I recognise that you are not a racist or hateful person – just one who cares deeply about his country (SOMETHING THAT SEEMS TO BE SHORT IN MANY BAJANS) . Sometime I am tempted to use the language that comes to mind when I see foolishness happening too – but out of respect for David and his BU I try to find softer language…

    I am a supporter Negroman.

  • David // November 8, 2008 at 6:05 PM

    First thing: Degrees, Masters and Phd’s aint got ONE pang to do with management (or leadership)….

    It’s the societal standard.

    SECOND thing;Good management practices DOES ‘fall from the sky’ in a manner of speaking. This is EXACTLY why we are so short on it…. (If it came from degrees we would be sitting pretty…) It comes from WISDOM, David and that comes from only one source….(believe it or not)

    Half the world is caught up in relativism.

    Thirdly, I know that you ain’t fraid to express your ideas David. I have the greatest admiration for you – as man!!! You demonstrate a humanness, compassion, fairness and openness to ideas that is outstanding by any measure – and mind boggling for a Bajan. Tell us the truth – weh you really come from?

    Never knew you were driven to flattery to win tight arguments!
     
    Seriously though; the first two points identify the societal blockers, to use the jargon :-) so where does the gamechanger comes from? from the sky Bt? You need to show us the bridge which at the moment is leading to nowhere.
     
     

  • So mote it be // November 8, 2008 at 6:08 PM

    David says: First thing: Degrees, Masters and Phd’s aint got ONE pang to do with management (or leadership)…. excellent observation, Sir. What with all the scholars coming off Cave Hill we just got uh lot of big frogs in a small pond. That’s exactly right and what I was aluding to in a previous post.

  • So mote it be // November 8, 2008 at 6:14 PM

    Re this ‘race’ thing … had Obama lost you’d be hearing all about how the white people didn’t want a black in the White House.

    Now that it all over, nobody is mentioning it was the whites who put him there.

    As a black person myself, I’m well aware of the tactics. As soon as something goes askew… it’s the ‘white people’ fault. We will have this ‘insight’ with us until dooms day. IN THE MEANTIME HOWEVER those who can see… get on with their lives (all colors) and make a success of it, while the blind (all colors) continue to grope.

  • Bush tea // November 8, 2008 at 6:24 PM

    @ David

    Re your first two points – These explain why we have the chaos in the world that we have at present (despite having more technology, brains and degrees that ever before in all history)

    Re your last point;
    All is fair when it comes to love, war or arguing with you and MME,…

    The ‘gamechanger’ will be here much more shortly that you may think….

  • Bush tea // November 8, 2008 at 6:26 PM

    David,
    I am out for a few hours…

  • JC // November 8, 2008 at 6:46 PM

    @Thats not it Bonny Peppa I am just trying to be civilised for a change I remember when i bougt up the ‘poppy issue’ oh lord i caused sodial unrest so I was just treading carefully! Imust commened busht tea, negro man and David for speaking patriotically on this topic! Barbados should be for Barbaidans first!

  • Yardbroom // November 8, 2008 at 7:04 PM

    Unfortunately “most” of our politicians see national problems not in the way they impact on the majority population, they were elected to represent, but in the the narrow way those problems affect them personally or their families.

    With this mindset, the national interest has always and will always play a poor second fiddle.

  • Micro Mock Engineer // November 8, 2008 at 7:28 PM

    True dat Technician… like you, I really enjoying this exchange between David and BT.

    I want to ask David ’bout his issue with relativism (particularly since, a key factor in Obama’s success at the polls is the wave of moral and cultural relativism washing over the US/world – a wave, I might add, that he rode masterfully). But you know that ole saying: when giants fight the small ones get trampled… I gine watch from a safe distance till de dust settle between he and BT bo :-)

  • Yardbroom // November 8, 2008 at 7:33 PM

    JC
    I made no comment on the poppy issue, because I thought some remarks were off the radar and no good ever comes from that type of discourse.

    I have always bought poppies and will continue to do so. In buying a poppy I remember young men like our National Hero the late Errol Barrow who as a young man flew planes for the RAF during the second world war and returned safely to our shores. I also remember the son of Mr Cumberbatch headmaster of St Giles Boys School -now deceased- whose son never returned to Barbados, and the young men of many colours whose blood has stained the cold damp earth of far off places.

    If I can make a small contribution to help the young men of today without limbs, I do it gladly. The hand of death does not respect colour and the tears of “all” mothers are the same.

    I seek not to convince or influence this is a personal decision.

  • Technician // November 8, 2008 at 8:23 PM

    @MME….

    I am one who does not believe in role models per se… but when you come across people like David ,Bush Tea,Negroman and yourself,among others here on this blog, it makes me feel that all is not lost and there is a lot you can learn from people like you. If only we could have more thinking like this …Barbados would be a better place.
    Bob Marley once said if he was educated, he would be a damn fool. How true this has turned out to be.
    We have a lot of educated fools who are really nothing more than square pegs in round holes.

    I miss men like Gladstone Holder, he was my favorite columnist of all.This discussion reminds me of his articles.

  • Bush tea // November 8, 2008 at 9:17 PM

    @MME,
    I too have noticed David tempting us to explore this concept of relativism. I was leaving it for you to deal with those high intellectual concepts (as I told Negroman). However I repeat that, IMHO, in the final analysis Right is right and wrong is wrong.

    Relativism is simply a convenient concept which allows the crooked and immoral among us to sleep at night. It argues that nothing is really ‘right’ or ‘wrong’ – it all depends on the circumstances…..
    – bribes can now be redefined as ‘gifts’
    - murder as collateral damage
    - and truth is subject to hidden agendas.

    It says “What God What?!? that does not apply to me….

    It is no surprise that, as MME puts it. there is a “wave of moral and cultural relativism washing over the US/world ”

    A civilisation that has been build on an unashamed foundation of greed and selfishness would naturally gravitate towards a religious philosophy like relativity..

    Unfortunately for them – and for all of us who feel otherwise, there exists some absolute spiritual laws, the consequences of which are inescapable.

    It is this inevitability that awaits us all – no matter what we think that we believe.

  • Bush tea // November 8, 2008 at 9:37 PM

    @ Yardbroom, you said ”
    ***********************************************************************
    Unfortunately “most” of our politicians see national problems not in the way they impact on the majority population, they were elected to represent, but in the the narrow way those problems affect them personally or their families.

    With this mindset, the national interest has always and will always play a poor second fiddle
    ************************************************************************
    So Yardbroom, do the people not have a role in addressing this situation?

    Where did we inherit the ‘right’ to good governance?

    Is not the problem that we the people are THE SAME as the leaders? (and therefore cannot morally demand high values from them)

    Do selfish, greedy, immoral people DESERVE honest, selfless, Godly leaders?

    I say ‘a people always get exactly what they deserve….’

  • JC // November 8, 2008 at 9:38 PM

    Fair enough yardbroom and I hope you respect that I will not buy NO POPPIES from a boy! However I respect that you buy that is your choice!

  • David // November 9, 2008 at 1:41 AM

    @MME

    I want to ask David ’bout his issue with relativism (particularly since, a key factor in Obama’s success at the polls is the wave of moral and cultural relativism washing over the US/world – a wave, I might add, that he rode masterfully).

    Not sure that your supposition is correct. Obama delivered his rhetoric at a level which resonated with voters. The fact that events unfolded to support his rhetoric shouldn’t be underestimated. Don’t think it had anything to do with a wave of moral and cultural relativism at all. In fact Obama’s voting record suggest a left of centre position but he ran a platform we are told from the centre. What it says is that he was able to sell a message to the voters which is not his true position :-).

  • Negroman // November 9, 2008 at 3:59 AM

    Bush Tea,Technician & the rest thanks for the support.I am a black proud,patriotic Barbadian who wants the best for black people and black Barbadians in particular.
    I know with some certainty this government wants to have an effective immigration policy in place.It is becoming increasingly difficult for employers to employ undocumented non-nationals.Immigrations models of The Bahamas,Bermuda,The Cayman Islands & some international countries were studied and are being study in the soon to be release new immigration act.Stringent measures are coming.However,opposition & pressure are coming from the reactionary groups in Barbados who are benefiting the most from cheap imported labour.The business sector in Barbados is threatening and undermining the government’s effort in this regard.I mentioned that Maxine McClean the minister is fustrated I know what I am talking about.The business sector wants to to hold the government & the country up to ransom.They want the reservoir of semi-skilled,unskilled,uneducated & undocumented non-natioanls to remain so that exploitation of those individuals could continue..
    Prime Minister David Thompson this is a test of your character.I want to see if you have the balls to take on the powerful business class in Barbados or will you capitulate to the desires of those scoundrels.Prime Minister David Thompson the business class could only gave you & your party financial support, but that sector cannot make you the leader of this country.It is we the people of Barbados who you will have to depend on to remain as Prime Minister.
    We the people of Barbados want decisive action taken on this illegal immigration issue.Grandstanding will not work.Stop the delay tactics and act.
    decisively on this issue or we will act decisively on you & your government.

  • Negroman // November 9, 2008 at 4:30 AM

    I congratulate Barack Obama on his election win in the USA Presidential elections.However,I am not that overjoy on his victory.I view his victory with skepticism & trepidation.
    I listened to his acceptance speech and what has me concern is the point he made that those countries of the world he perceive to be a threat to the USA he would defeat.He said words to that effect.I believe he echoed the same sentiments of George Bush only in a different language.George Bush said if you are not with me you are against me and we all know what George Bush did.
    Barack Obama during the elections was Mr Diplomatic & Mr Diplomacy.He talked about dialogue with world leaders including USA adversaries such as Iran & North Korea.Now he is President elect he is singing a different tune.I am going to scrutinize his performance carefully.
    I am of the opinion that white people in America felt relative comfortable with Obama because he has white genes in him.I believe that white America said when they cast the vote for Obama that they voted for a person who is half of them.Likewise black America felt the same way.Both ethnic groups should feel fairly comfortable with Barack Obama because he has both of these groups in him and they believe he can effectively represent both groups.
    I as a conscious black man view with real caution any black person that white people endorsed and supported and put up as our heroes.History is replete with many people of that ilk who White people force on us as role models.I make no apologies I am wary of Barack Obama.I have my doubts about him.
    I am wondering if Barack Obama with all the qualities he has now was the product of a black father & black mother would he be accepted by the whites in America & the people of the world as he is presently now receive?

  • Yardbroom // November 9, 2008 at 8:32 AM

    @ Bush Tea

    We the people have abdicated our moral responsibilities and laid bare the weaknesses within us, which politicians shamelessly exploit.

    Strangers – within our gates – and the very rich concious of this aberation, take advantage of our “greed” as money and favours are given for serious societal transgressions, that ultimately undermine our values.

    The common good is scarcely explored, the mantra “what is in it for me ” has become common currency.

    To take a moral stand on any issue is considered “old fashioned” and out of date, as naked greed and exploitation of the vulnerable – which we the people have become – is the accepted order of the day.

    Do we deserve it? Perhaps you are right…we do.

  • no name // November 9, 2008 at 8:37 AM

    Oh boy! I cannot believe what Negroman has written.

    America voted for the man, not his blood type. The man has been elected President of the United States of America.

    Pray for Obama and the rest of the World and let’s get on with it, for Heaven’s sake. Leave out this ridiculous race talk.

  • Micro Mock Engineer // November 9, 2008 at 8:49 AM

    “What it says is that he was able to sell a message to the voters which is not his true position”
    ————————-

    :-)

    Agreed David… everything to (almost) everyone… not easy for the average person to pull off, but in the hands of the consummate politician it is the ‘perfect’ political platform, especially in an age of relativism. Things will become clearer in the fullness of time… they always do.

    David, where can we find that other type of leader… you know… the one who sells a message to voters/followers which IS his true position? We need some more of those right now… leaders for whom the message is more important than the vote.

    ‘Hold tight MME, a leader like that will be here sooner than you think’… that is me daring to read your mind BT :-)
    I disagree of course… it is within our capability to ‘make’ (as distinct from ‘prove’) you wrong… at least this time around. :-)

    On the scale of tests that MMEs (aka humans) will have to face, we only now reach 11-plus… O-levels, A-levels, degrees still to come. Of course there are those who want to ’scrap’ the 11-plus and jump straight to the final exam… BT, I hope you en one a dem :-)

  • Inkwell // November 9, 2008 at 9:54 AM

    Bush Tea

    Its not that I am “sharing licks” as you put it. I am somewhat in agreement with your position on the management/worker issue and on relativism as expressed in this thread.

    Relativism is not a new concept, but it has recently been used to justify many an unsustainable position. It was relativism that allowed Bush et al to commit what is essentially a war crime by attacking a sovereign nation without provocation and kill thousands with seeming impunity..note I said “seeming”.

    It is relativism that allowed the white race, while claiming to be Christian, to enslave another race and keep it in inhumane bondage for four hundred years, still sleep at night and expect to get to heaven, whatever your concept of that is.

    On the substantive issue of foreign workers in Barbados, my stance is generally unpopular, but I feel that the competition was a dose of reality medicine sorely needed by the Barbadian worker of a certain level, who felt that Barbadian employers had to accept their poor work ethic and shoddy production and still pay wages suited to top performance.

    I have a problem, though, with your theory of predestination, if that’s what it is. My theory is that a person, a people, a civilization has within his/its power to determine his/its destination and the means of getting there and that there is no predestined end game, (global warming exemplifies). I am the first to admit that I may be wrong. I simply do not know..and neither does anybody else.

    To be certain about something about which one cannot possibly be “certain” borders on the irrational, which on everyday matters you do not appear to be, quite the contrary.

    You can “believe”, but you cannot know”.

  • John // November 9, 2008 at 10:03 AM

    Micro Mock Engineer // November 9, 2008 at 8:49 am

    David, where can we find that other type of leader… you know… the one who sells a message to voters/followers which IS his true position? We need some more of those right now… leaders for whom the message is more important than the vote.
    ++++++++++++++++++

    I was looking at the words of the old song “Blowing in the wind” last night for some reason and thought these few lines demonstrate the problem you and others raise.

    “How many times can a man turn his head
    And pretend that he just doesn’t see
    The answer, my friend, is blowing in the wind
    The answer is blowing in the wind”

    Do the words mean that there is an answer blowing in the wind which all we have to do is to grasp, … or do they mean that we are the answer ….. but we are blowing in the wind?

    Perhaps we are the leaders who determine the message!!

    If we are weak and stand for nothing, anything goes, including accepting a leader who speaks differently to what he believes … or worse, believes in nothing.

    The age of relativism will always with us, it is just an easy way out.

  • John // November 9, 2008 at 10:08 AM

    … all that was neded to stop Hitler was a strong people who did not tolerate his excesses …… instead he got tolerance and blind faith.

    There are those who resisted, but too few.

  • Straight talk // November 9, 2008 at 11:09 AM

    Lack of strong leadership, as against mere representation, may be accounted for by the preponderance of legally trained politicians in Barbados, maybe it’s the reason for Obama’s obfuscation too.

    Facts are irrelevant to attorneys, they deal in perceptions.

    Their very existence depends on how the jury/electorate are swayed by their arguments and half-baked actions.

    It appears their approach to any problem is not to tackle it forcefully but appear to be doing something so long as it can be acceptable to the majority.

    Strong leaders succeed by the courage of their own convictions, not the convictions obtained by clever words in a courtroom.

  • Technician // November 9, 2008 at 11:16 AM

    Wow……lessons enough to be learned on this blog.

    @ No name who said…

    Oh boy! I cannot believe what Negroman has written.

    America voted for the man, not his blood type.
    ————————————————————–
    Maybe …they voted for the message…not the man or his blood type.

    I have found that the ones who have a problem with race discussions are usually the ones who cant deal with the reality of how black people …as a race were nearly destroyed, their history erased and their mentality corrupted.
    Negroman does make valid points but it seems that some of us would rather bury our heads in the sand, as opposed to dealing with reality.
    A lot of us think we are sitting on thrones …..but we are barely scotching on chairs.

  • JC // November 9, 2008 at 11:18 AM

    Negroman you know you are my man I love and adore you to the max for your tenaity and your courage to say how you feel. I am one who will never forget who I am and the struggles we as a people will have to endure, to achieve things in life. However, is’nt this why we are now in our own leader’s skin? dont we want him to check for bajans first what the hell are you telling me that you should not represent your own? That people should be able to knock on your door and do as they like in your territiory and you should allow them to do as they like come on negro man you know this is not right! thin about it if you were Obama as leader of your country wouldnt you not state your position and defend your position as well! Reading you for these past few months I know you would have done more than talk negro man lol!

  • JC // November 9, 2008 at 11:22 AM

    Only negroman would write something like that only negorman ha h ha hahahahahlol olol pure controversy I love it ha ha ha ha!

  • David // November 9, 2008 at 12:07 PM

    @John

    The level of relativism through the ages is relative but who determines the level? It must be a generational thing.

    @MME

    Given the current state of things we find it difficult to anticipate the kind of leader who will drop out of the sky to deliver the message which goes against the tide. We have become too polarized between the races, and as Bt says, too sophisticated, sadly we have passed the point of no return.

    What we see is the need for purging to take place which might make the task of rebuilding much easier.

  • Micro Mock Engineer // November 9, 2008 at 12:18 PM

    man Straight Talk… you like you on top of your game right now too… wunna got me real frighten now :-)

    I am loathe to philosophise on an otherwise excellent discussion… but I sense that this may be an appropriate time. BT said “It comes from WISDOM, David and that comes from only one source”… this is true, but incomplete without distinguishing between ‘Sophia’ and ‘Phronesis’… we began to touch on this in an earlier blog (i.e. the definition and role of ‘wisdom’ and ‘character’ in the context of passing our ‘final exam’)… unfortunately (or fortunately LOL) the debate fizzled before we got into aretaic ethics.

  • Micro Mock Engineer // November 9, 2008 at 12:50 PM

    “We have become too polarized between the races, and as Bt says, too sophisticated, sadly we have passed the point of no return”
    ——————–

    I could not disagree with you more David. If anything, the races have become less polarized over time. As for sophistication, :-), we have not even reached Type I on the Kardashev scale.

  • David // November 9, 2008 at 1:19 PM

    @MME

    We may not be fighting wars at medieval levels, we may not witness another holocaust, human bondage maybe a thing of the past (although replaced by cryptic racism) yet our world remains 24/7 in a heightened state of chaos e.g. Iraq, financial meltdown, human suffering in Africa, Darfur, Zimbawee and we can go on.

    BTW as we understand it the Kardashev scale is highly speculative :-)

  • Micro Mock Engineer // November 9, 2008 at 1:23 PM

    Touché David :-)

  • Bush tea // November 9, 2008 at 3:17 PM

    “…. The answer, my friend, is blowing in the wind
    The answer is blowing in the wind”

    @ John
    What a most appropriate song to come to mind….. almost akin to David’s continued offhand references to solutions ‘falling from the sky…’

    Suppose the answers to all those unasked questions were there all along –just waiting to be provided -at no cost to anyone who cares to ask?

    Suppose critical attributes (like wisdom) were freely available?

    What if, instead of accepting the free answers, mankind has for centuries been seeking instead to find our own independent solutions to these ‘unasked questions’???? ..with increasingly disastrous consequences?

    When the point is reached where it becomes obvious to everyone that the end result of our “way” is doom – what would you expect to occur?

    That song is an interesting (inspired?) commentary. It was adopted (the melody) from an old Negro spiritual “No more auction block” and appears to be timeless.

    …the answer my friend, is as free and available as the wind, the answers surround us all…

  • Bush tea // November 9, 2008 at 3:38 PM

    @Micro Mock Engineer

    Skipper, why you don’t behave though? You want to go now and mash up the discussion with philosophy and dem’ edder intellectual things?

    You well know that I am talking about sophia. “The wisdom that comes from BBE”…. Paul called it the ‘hidden wisdom.”

    The most interesting aspect of this subject to me has been the ‘hidden’ aspect. Ever wondered why Jesus answered questions with parables?…

    What ‘earthly stories with heavenly meanings’ what?!?

    …it was so that those asking would not understand the answers.

    Ever wondered why the bible contradicts itself? is so confused? has bits and pieces all over the place?

    ….same reason.
    You see…
    There is a condition that MUST be met before sophia becomes available…. one does not throw pearls to swine….

  • Tell me Why // November 9, 2008 at 4:15 PM

    I couldn’t sit back and allow Negroman to misinterpret Obama’s language, since this is where debaters can mislead others
    .
    Negroman you said
    “I listened to his acceptance speech and what has me concern is the point he made that those countries of the world he perceive to be a threat to the USA he would defeat”

    The problem Negroman you are behaving like others, who have convenient hearing. By hearing the word “Defeat”you immediately jump to the conclusion that Obama was talking about military defeat like “Bush – the warrior” and not “Bush – the tea”; but you closed your brain down when he talked about mental defeat based on democracy and unyielding hope,

    Read an excerpt from his speech and silently apologise.

    “To those who would tear the world down – we will defeat you. To those who seek peace and security – we support you.

    And to all those who have wondered if America’s beacon still burns as bright – tonight we proved once more that the true strength of our nation comes not from the might of our arms or the scale of our wealth, but from the enduring power of our ideals: democracy, liberty, opportunity and unyielding hope.

    For that is the true genius of America – that America can change. Our union can be perfected. And what we have already achieved gives us hope for what we can and must achieve tomorrow”

    Tech, ah had to brek muh promise and interject this one time. Bye.

  • John // November 9, 2008 at 4:48 PM

    MME

    I agree. Races have become less and less polarised.

    It is usually the older folk who raise the race issue, the youngsters don’t care a hoot.

  • Technician // November 9, 2008 at 5:31 PM

    @ Tell Me Why…

    No worries bro…promises are made to be broken right?
    Wish you would come back on though…..those guys like MME, Bush Tea, David and Straight Talk have me here taking some serious notes….boy this week in the office I know I will be the man.
    @ John……
    …’the youngsters dont care a hoot ‘……..hmm, dont think I can really agree with that statement though. Even though it is less obvious than years ago. Here in Barbados it is still rampant…check out the night clubs, social events like motor sport or any liming spots. Anyone can still see the great divide….but hey..to each his own.

  • Micro Mock Engineer // November 9, 2008 at 5:46 PM

    “There is a condition that MUST be met before sophia becomes available”
    —————–

    Actually BT, there are seven conditions (or pillars) on which sophia is built, and two unpleasant but temporary consequences of hewing those conditions… but I am sure you already knew that :-)

  • John // November 9, 2008 at 5:48 PM

    I remember exactly what I was doing when Nelson Mandela was freed back in February 1990, …. and it was not watching the event on TV.

    I was waiting on a couple of guys who had set a time to meet and who were late for that appointed time because as they explained rather pompously afterwards, they just “had” to watch the event on TV.

    It was the thing to do.

    That day will forever remain in my consciousness because the more I see of this life, the more I think these guys were watching the event for all the wrong reasons.

    I think they missed the simple and pure message that the release of Nelson Mandela sent to all humanity.

    That message I grew to realise is that it is impossible to control and repress the the human spirit.

    I have watched Nelson Mandela on TV several times after that event and at no time did I ever get the impression that he took his stand because he was black.

    He did it because it was the right thing to do and because the spirit in him would not let him do otherwise.

    He listened to that little voice in his head and heeded its directions.

    Sometimes that is all we need to do to get the answers which are within us.

    The strength, inspiration and werewithal to fight for any worthy cause comes with the decision to walk the walk … and they come from the most unexpected places.

    If we are constantly blowing in the wind, we will never get the answers to life’s long term questions which are invariably within each of us.

  • John // November 9, 2008 at 6:06 PM

    Technician

    Motor sports is a bad example to use because it exemlifies just how little race means to young people today and how much interest the racing generates.

    It is probably the most popular sport in Barbados with fans of every colour, class and creed, both male and female.

    Its popularity is based on the little child in each of us and the fascination with speed.

    In my youth I was an avid Bushy Park fan, not so much now.

    The crowds I see on TV at the rallies and race meets are far more racially mixed than are the crowds I see at Cricket.

    The attendance is to do with what interest an individual has in the particular sport, …. as you say, to each his own.

    You probably won’t see me at any of the race meets or at cricket because I just can’t sit still for the whole day and concentrate on one event.

    … but both interest me!!

  • Technician // November 9, 2008 at 6:28 PM

    @ John…

    All I was pointing out was where the youth are in terms of socializing as you say ..’the youth dont give a hoot’

    Tell me…do you see much integration @ motorsports?
    @ Carib Beach Bar?
    @Mojo?
    @Harbor Lights?

    These are some of the places where young people hang out and socialize. Yet still you can see the divide between the two main races.
    So dont say they dont give a hoot because it exists on both sides.
    Maybe it is not as ‘in your face’ as years gone by but trust me,,,it is there.

    You smart though…..you took out Motorsports and went off on a tangent….thereby avoiding the real issue….you a politician or lawyer by any chance? :-)

  • David // November 9, 2008 at 6:41 PM

    John // November 9, 2008 at 4:48 pm (edit)

    MME

    I agree. Races have become less and less polarised. It is usually the older folk who raise the race issue, the youngsters don’t care a hoot.

    John you should factor that polarization between the races is not only caused by racial tension. This is where we disagree. For example tension between races has been caused by ideology and religion. The current East/West rhetoric especially after 911 is a good example. The rise of Iran with the fall of Iraq has not helped. That’s one example.

  • John // November 9, 2008 at 7:47 PM

    Never been to Mojo and I’ve perhaps been to Harbour Lights once in my life many years ago … might have been called something else back then … it was that long ago.

    … and it is not beause I don’t feel welcome, …. or for that matter that old.

    The few times I ‘ve been to Carib Beach Bar for a meal I have seen mostly tourists.

    It is alot to do with interest.

    Apart from a visit to the Alhambra in Spain back in 1979 I have never been inside a Mosque not because I don’t feel welcome but because I have never felt the urge to go ….. and I can count the times I have been inside a Roman Catholic Church on the fingers of my one hand, … I can remember a wedding and a funeral … to be truthful I don’t go to church much.

    The separation seen at public places in Barbados today I think is more because of people’s interest, not because of their race.

    It is highly unlikely you will find me at the yacht club for the simple reason that the sea and me don’t agree.

    …. but I have had meals there before with members, and even swam in the sea when I was a boy.

    The intervals between my visits are usually measured in years, not because I don’t feel welcome, but rather because I rarely have the need to go.

    That’s been my experience.

  • Bush tea // November 9, 2008 at 8:00 PM

    @ Inkwell
    One small point, you said….
    *****************************************************************
    I have a problem, though, with your theory of predestination, if that’s what it is. My theory is that a person, a people, a civilization has within his/its power to determine his/its destination and the means of getting there and that there is no predestined end game.
    ********************************************************************

    My theory is EXACTLY as you outline yours. Human Beings have the freedom to decide their individual and collective actions- which then determine the final outcomes realized.
    The fact that prophecy, or some super-human intelligence- is able to preview the outcome is a separate, distinct, and independent reality.

    Additionally, if someone with the required knowledge (ie BBE) could look at the situation from outside of the totality of existence as we know it, it could be possible that the collective outcome is ‘preknown’ in a manner of speaking – even though the players on earth had, (and exercised) their individual freedom of choice.

    This would be similar to a modern spy satellite observing two enemy forces advancing from opposing sides of a hill.
    It is not difficult to prophesy a coming battle…. And even a winner – based on their relative strengths.

    But predestination as in events being preprogrammed …. NO WAY.

  • Straight talk // November 9, 2008 at 8:10 PM

    Bush Tea:

    It’s very interesting to have you reveal more of your discovered philosophy and share with us in some small way this character building exercise.

    But now you have me flummoxed “But predestination as in events being preprogrammed …. NO WAY”.

    Have I mistakenly took you to believe in the coming rapture?

  • JC // November 9, 2008 at 8:25 PM

    You all think that young people dont give a shit about race ha ha ha ha ha lol lol lol what ever ok ok whatever!

  • Bush tea // November 9, 2008 at 9:05 PM

    OK ST, my bad!!

    I was responding to predestination in terms of individuals and groups being free to make whatever decisions that they may choose to make.

    I thought that situations like the rapture – or even the planning of D-Day by the allies in WWII are more like planned events rather than predestination per se.

    The way I saw it then, the fact that God may have decided that on Dec 22, 2012 will be the end of this phase is not predestination as we are discussing it.

    If your (or my) actions, decisions and other choices were preplanned and occurred outside of your (or my) control and will, then THAT would constitute predestination.

    I plan to go to work tomorrow morning – that is not predestination, just pre planning…

    If I found myself having to go – no matter how I felt about it or against my free will – Then….

  • Carson C. Cadogan // November 9, 2008 at 11:23 PM

    Anyone remember Rev. Jim Jones and Jonestown in Guyana?

  • Micro Mock Engineer // November 9, 2008 at 11:48 PM

    @BT & ST… the two uh wunna got me confused now. Not that I am surprised, because this weekend you have both been at the top of your games… like athletes on steroids… or Bob Dylan on what ever he was on when he wrote “Blowin’ in the Wind”… but I digress…

    There is no conflict between free will and predestination… they coexist in Phase 1. BT I think you hit the nail on the head when you used the phrase “how I FELT about it” at the end of your last post, although I am not sure you did so intentionally (it is hard for a sober MME to tell, given your preamble LOL).

    You see, in the physical world, what will happen has happened… you did (or did not) go to work tomorrow BT… while you may think you have control over that, you don’t… all you have control (or free will) over is how you feel, or will feel, about it.

    The events in and around our lives are preprogrammed… our threads already spun, measured and cut by Lachesis, Clotho, and Atropos :-). What isn’t preprogrammed is how we respond to, or experience, these events… how they shape our character… how well we maintain the communication channel between the physical and spiritual worlds.

    Like Shakespeare wrote: “There is a divinity that shapes our ends, rough-hew them how we will”… then again, he was probably on the same ‘medicine’ you & ST are on.

  • Technician // November 10, 2008 at 7:25 AM

    John says…..The separation seen at public places in Barbados today I think is more because of people’s interest, not because of their race.
    ——————————————————————————-
    I have to disagree here John. When I go to these places, the interest is great on both sides.It is after all, a place to lime after work or on weekends.You have a good gathering of both races but while there, you can almost draw a physical line through these places.
    Why ?
    Both are here but hardly ever mixing.
    Get out more John….please.
    Gone are the Yatch Club days…but the mentality still lives on for generations.
    The other worrying factor to this divide is this nonsense called CLASS……but that is another topic for another day…have a good one.

  • The People's Democratic Congress // November 10, 2008 at 8:32 AM

    The PDC is pleased to presently report to the people of Barbados that there are appreciable movements along the lines of the broad masses and middle classes of people of Barbados coming to a greater understanding of the need for the vast majority voters in Barbados to stop electing BLP and DLP Governments in this country.

    We take comfort in those facts from the point of view that more and more Barbadians are becoming more and more sick, tired and fed up with DLP and BLP Governments in this country, and therefore are resolved to telling us exactly how they feel about the DLP and BLP, and are also resolved to giving us – the PDC – more and more moral, political and other kinds of support and encouragement at this stage.

    And, just as the face of American politics and political sociology is somewhat changing, with the ascension of Mr. Barack Obama as the President-Elect of the United Sates of America, so must deeper change of the politics and political sociology of Barbados come about in the country, however.

    The PDC is sensing, too, that so many more Barbadians than in the last election are really wishing for fundamental social, political, material and financial change – and for the better – in Barbados, that they are very excited about our strategies concerning the Abolition of Taxation, Abolition of Interest Rates, Abolition of Motor Vehicle Insurance, Exchange Rates Parities with the Barbados, Non-Repayment of Institutional Loans for Productive Purposes, et al.

    Finally, at this time of economic recession in Barbados thousands upon thousands of Barbadians are seriously and reeling from the effects of rapid declines in disposable incomes, increasing lay offs, increasing costs of living, and declines in standards of living in Barbados. Yet, what is so dreadful at this stage is that both DLP and BLP are in no position to seriously help the broad masses and middle classes out of this present political economic crisis – which, ironically, they have helped to despicably create.

    PDC

  • Negroman // November 10, 2008 at 11:26 AM

    John will like to fool black Barbadians tthat integration of the different ethnic groups is alive & well in Barbados.That is not so.Whites & Indians in Barbados do not mix with black Barbadians as a normal practise.Any mixing of the races occurs as a result of either the whites,Indians and I will add the Chinese linking with Black Barbadians who might be of some help to them in their business or social life.The whites,Indians & Chinese will form strategic linkages with Blacks for benefits that will come as a consequence.In addition mixing is on a very limited scale.I must also indicate that anti-black blacks & token blacks who are suffering from inferior complexes and believe that mixing with whites or other ethnic groups will make them feel like a person of worth are the blacks that will desperately try to link with whites & other ethnic groups.Those black Barbadians jokers endure sheer humiliation & bad treatment just to gave the impression that they are accepting by other ethnic groups.Those are shameless waste of time blacks.
    In the night clubs in Barbados there is no real mixing of the races.I remember the days of the Banana Boat in Maxwell Christ Church owned by that stinking white,pig smelling Robin Walcott of Carlisle Club & Carambola Restaurant fame.He shut down the Banana Boat because too many black Barbadians were going there.He did likewise with the Carlisle Club in Bay Street.He sold it for the same reason.Many whites night clubs & bars owned & frequented by white Barbadians suffered similar fates because the whites owners & white patrons did not want many local Blacks in their establishments.James Blades of Coconut Court Hotel in Hastings ran a bar in St Lawrence Gap name Taps On The Bay.He shut it down for the same reason too many blacks going there.Likewise he did a similar thing with Red Rooster opposite the same Coconut Court Hotel.There are many other instances such as Wharehouse & Pier 29 in Cavan Lane Bay Street.
    I am not a foolish,gullible black Barbadian that could be fool by stupid clowns like John,Reluctant Non-Believer & the rest of idiots that want us to believe that racism,segregration & ill treatment of black people do not occur.
    Those clowns if they are black are no use to the black race.Those humbugs should eliminate themselves.

  • JC // November 10, 2008 at 11:42 AM

    Negroman please tell these gullible peo;le about the headlines in tday’s nations teen’s death does this sound like an ordinary killing you know me! What do you think does this sound normal! hmmmmmmm!

  • Running Man // November 10, 2008 at 12:22 PM

    Well Well! Top post Negroman. You described the situation on the rock to perfection. The names you used are perfect examples to illustrate your points. Every word you said is true. Over at BFP that blog and its white posters are trying to fool the world that Bajan blacks are racist.

  • John // November 10, 2008 at 1:06 PM

    Technician

    I do get out alot, … you would be amazed.

    My experience of Barbados is not limited to one or two night clubs. It is just that I only reach there occasionaly, sometimes not at all!!

    I don’t make it to Rum Shops much either although I have been to some and have enjoyed myself there with friends and acquaintances.

    Do you see the same separations here too?

    For me Night Clubs, Rum Shops etc. provide entertainment which doesn’t always appeal to me so I don’t go there much. W

    hen I do go there it is for a specific reason and I am yet to be disappointed or feel slighted.

    Maybe I am guilty of turning my head and not seeing but I think it is that I just don’t look for all these separations which many look for.

    I am too busy enjoying the occasion to confuse my head with what I consider to be trivia.

    I once worked in Malaysia alongside a couple of other Bajans. Soon after we arrived, three of us went walking after work.

    One guy announced that he felt everybody was staring at him. I told him he was being sensitive at which he took extreme offence.

    He was convinced people were staring at him because he was black.

    I just shut up and enjoyed looking at the people, the scenery and the differences.

    He relaxed as time went on.

    We all made good friends over there and enjoyed ourselves.

    Relax and enjoy life.

    It is too short to spend looking for issues which may or may not exist.

  • Chris Halsall // November 10, 2008 at 4:28 PM

    @Negroman: “Whites & Indians in Barbados do not mix with black Barbadians as a normal practise.Any mixing of the races occurs as a result of either the whites,Indians and I will add the Chinese linking with Black Barbadians who might be of some help to them in their business or social life.The whites,Indians & Chinese will form strategic linkages with Blacks for benefits that will come as a consequence.In addition mixing is on a very limited scale.

    @All… I’m sorry, but I have to ask this…

    @Negroman: You have internalized you yourself are a racist. Correct?

    @Negroman: So, as a follow-up question: where is your moral footing?

  • Negroman // November 10, 2008 at 6:30 PM

    I want anyone to challenge my analysis of the reason why many white owned nigh clubs in Barbados shut their doors with in the last 30 years or so.Iwant anyone to name 1 single night club in Barbados where local whites & locals blacks socialise in great numbers.

    JC the sub-culture of the murderous Indo-Guyanese has arrive in Barbados.The death of the teenager in St John on Saturday is the type of murder that is new to Barbados.
    How can somebody in their right mine could gagged the hands & feet of a little teenager girl and then set the house on fire with the little girl trapped.Only wicked,demonic,criminals would do such a thing as that.Those type of murders are common to Trinidad & Guyana.
    I warned Barbadians on numerous occassion on these blogs that those of things will happen in this country as a result of the demographic shift with the high influx of degenerates.More of that type of activity is to come.This country is facing a disaster of immense proprtions.These are perilous times for black Barbadians in Barbados.We are on the road to be like Trinidad & Guyana.
    JC we would not hear so we have to burn now.Pun intended.

  • Anonymous // November 10, 2008 at 6:44 PM

    Negroman,
    does it count that James Blades is in a serious relationship with a Black woman? Probably not … she is probably an anti black black!

  • Chris Halsall // November 10, 2008 at 6:52 PM

    This is a bit like having a debate with a boomerang…

    No sentience, but it just keeps coming back…

  • Technician // November 10, 2008 at 7:03 PM

    @ John…..

    When all is said and done, we are arguing the same point from different perspective and I respect your outlook you have described in your last post.
    I. on the other hand, am not as passive when it comes to the issue of racism.
    You remind me of the little boy running naked in the wind without a care in the world. It is good that you can live without seeing the issues around you.

    Now I am going to be a bit harsh on you to make a point ok. No disrespect intended but I have to ask this…

    Are you white or black?

  • Running Man // November 10, 2008 at 8:32 PM

    Anonymous // November 10, 2008 at 6:44 pm

    Negroman,
    does it count that James Blades is in a serious relationship with a Black woman? Probably not … she is probably an anti black black
    ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
    I notice the jungle fever with Blades, Bizzy and that lot known for their anti black stances and mouthings. Blades disallows his workers from joining union. Bizzy says blacks looking for handouts. We are not fooled.

  • Bush tea // November 10, 2008 at 8:49 PM

    @ Micro Mock Engineer,

    “The problem with engineers is their tendency to complicate some matters that could otherwise be quite simple” (Bush Tea just now)…
    (If you want to quote Shakespeare – wuh I can quote too…. )

    How you mean, “…there is no conflict between free will and predestination”? MME, these concepts are mutually exclusive.
    With predestination, this would mean that –as you put it, ‘the events in and around our lives are preprogrammed” while with free will, we write the events in and around our lives second by second- by our own free choices and actions – interacting with established spiritual and physical laws.

    As usual, you are right however about the co-existence of both concepts in Phase 1. However not to confuse us regular mortals, it needs to be pointed out that the two apply to different players.

    Let me use the example of my man ‘Lowdown’ again.
    Suppose Lowdown decided to set up a new farm with 100 goats. He collects the stock on January 1, and decides to send 6 of them to market every month-end. In the interim, the goats are free to enjoy the freedom of the farm; to graze; sleep, eat -as they wish. After some time, he decides that he will sell all the goats on December 31 and go into another area of farming.

    There is an aspect of predestination, in that Lowdown has the power to decide on the start, end time, and major aspects of the farm project like which 6 goes to market at month end. However, within the limits of the time and space of the farm project, goats have complete freedom to organize and order their own lives and activities. Predestination at this level would mean that every action and every second of each goat’s life was preordained.

    Somewhat like Relativity, it encourages lazy or ‘wutless’ goats to justify their situation as a case of ‘it is what was to be anyway, so why try to improve?”

    Shakespeare wrote lots of pretty words, but we should not mistake his rhyme for reason…

  • Negroman // November 10, 2008 at 9:07 PM

    That is a shocker.James Blades in a relationship with a black woman.I know James Blades,his father & sisters & mothers for many years.That whole lot hate black people with a passion.Not one black person could have gone into Coconut Court Hotel unless that black person was a worker.I remember when James Blades racially abused some black boys at Kentucky in Hastings and got the thrashing of his life.He nearly died from a collapse lung.I am not going to pass judgment on the lady but she could be an anti black black .
    Bizzy Williams wife Shelly is in a relationship that is pure torture.Bizzy former wife has made sure that Shelly never inherit anything from Bizzy ’s business interest.She does not attend functions with Bizzy because Bizzy friends & business associates tell him in no uncertain manner do not bring that lady around them.I want anyone to come and deny that.Shelly is only Bizzy plaything.

  • John // November 10, 2008 at 10:11 PM

    Technician

    I have done enough prying into family histories to say I am neither white nor black.

    The best I can do at the moment is to say I aspire to being a human, …. but its tough!!

    If I go by one of our historian’s definition of being black, ie all four grandparents black, I would say I am not black,

    … if only because at least one of their sixteen grandparents I have been able to trace far enough back in the history of Barbados to England

    …. or …. at least I think so!!

    So I find it simpler to stick with the more certain human thing …..

    …. and forget the colour thing.

  • Technician // November 10, 2008 at 11:26 PM

    @ John……

    Geez man, ya playin’ wid words pun ma now…

    My reason for asking is that we all know how it is in reality,whether we admit to it or not.
    A white or fair skinned person will always have a different outlook than a black person.
    Fortunately, people like us can look past this and move on. I, for one, would never forget the horrors of slavery but I refuse to walk around with a chip on my shoulder . I am aware of racism, however subtle and trust me, I deal with it right there and then.
    I wish I could forget the color thing and be as comfortable as you but we live in a cruel world and I see the evil ones from afar, therefore I have to call them out when I see them.
    Anyway, like I have said before …we may very well be arguing the same point from different views so here is where I suggest that we agree to disagree.
    Hope we have more of the same type of discussion on other issues on this interesting blog.
    Have a good one. Peace.

  • The Scout // November 11, 2008 at 1:15 AM

    NegroMan; Nov.10th; 6.30 P.M
    When I read that story in today’s nation, I said guyana has finally been established in Barbados. Yes, It will get worse, the suicides, the indo-guyanese murders will increase. You talk about white nightclubs, wait till the upscale indo-guyanese entrench themselves. Within the next 2 years in this country, we will see an indo-guyanese nightclub similar to the old Hollywood nightclub in guyana open its doors. Then you would see racism at its worse.

  • John // November 11, 2008 at 1:35 AM

    Technician

    I, for one, would never forget the horrors of slavery but I refuse to walk around with a chip on my shoulder
    ++++++++++++++++++++++

    How do you remember a horror you never experienced?

    I have Jewish Ancestors, none that I know of who went through the holocaust but no doubt some who may have faced pogroms in the past.

    I am aware of what happened in the holocaust.

    I am aware of what a pogrom was.

    I have read alot but I would not say I will always remember the horrors because I never experienced them.

    I also have African ancestors and have read what I can find. I am aware of my origins.

    I also have ancestors who were English, Portuguese, Spanish, possibly Amerindian and heaven knows what else.

    You ever read about the disaster that befell the Amerindians when Europeans and Africans came to the New World?

    I haven’t done the dna thing yet as I planned to but I suspect I will find alot I didn’t know about myself.

    To deny any of these origins would be to dishonour my ancestors, ….. and hence myself.

    … so I lean more to the description of “human” when I think of myself and I try to avoid terms related to skin colour.

    Ten generations ago there were 1024 persons alive who contributed to the making of me.

    Any one of them who didn’t do what they did ….. I would not exist. So I kinda like to avoid leaving out any of them!!

  • John // November 11, 2008 at 1:42 AM

    Something not right about this murder.

    Just too abnormal and horrible.

    It is too simplistic to blame it on indo guyanese.

    Hopefully the authorities solve this one and don’t hesitate to ask for outside help if they need it.

  • David // November 11, 2008 at 1:45 AM

    We want to caution the BU family to tread very carefully on this business of accusing a set of people about this murder. We will not hesitate to use our judgement.

    If a BU family member has information about this crime please give it to the Police!

  • Micro Mock Engineer // November 11, 2008 at 7:14 AM

    LOL Bush tea. As usual, you make a compelling case… original quotes and all. I am now most certainly on very thin ice here, but will continue…

    I accept after re-reading my post, that I did fall short by not acknowledging that the co-existence of free will and predestination, as you put it, ‘apply to different players’.

    On the issue of free will and predestination being mutually exclusive… this does seem logical, and may be a ‘relative’ truth (from MMEs’ perspective within the boundaries of the physical world), but I don’t think it is an ‘absolute’ truth. I am not sure how best to articulate the concept (maybe because I have it all wrong LOL), but here are two observations:
    1) The fundamental difference between the Lowdown/Goat relationship and the BBE/MME relationship, is that Lowdown and his goats have a common Creator i.e. he is not omnipotent, no matter what his goats ‘think’ LOL… don’t fall into the relativist trap.
    2) BBE has perfect foreknowledge (i.e. 20/20 foresight), and knows every detail of all future events. As a logical consequence, these events are ‘predestined’ (as distinct from physically ’caused’). BBE is not bound by time… past, present and future are meaningless in the grand scheme of things.

    … oh oh, I’ve got to go… I think my medication is wearing off. :-)

  • Negroman // November 11, 2008 at 1:30 PM

    I will not comment on the recent murder anymore.All I would say is that murder has serious & I say very serious implications on the immigration issue.I believe that case will be the one that will break the Camel’s back.

  • Problem child // November 11, 2008 at 4:10 PM

    Gosh!
    Tony ‘Bowells’ Marshall is one strange looking person. Is he well?

  • JC // November 11, 2008 at 5:46 PM

    I have not blamed anyone for any murder at all I am JUST asking why is it that when a little ‘black nobody’ asks questions persons decide that we are racist and we want to point the finger at people. Is it because we have a mind of our own. If Barbadians are involved or indians or any damn body they should be brought to justice full stop. However, I am saying it is not in our nature to be so heartless! I don’t like it something is not right about that crime something just is not right! I dont like what I am hearing through the grape vine if anyone hears anything please let us know! I have been hearing lots of things that is why I have asked a question!

  • Negroman // November 11, 2008 at 6:25 PM

    The Scout
    Yes indeed the indian sub-culture has arrive in Barbados and Scout we are seeing & feeling the effects .I have so much information on the activities of the scums Indo-Guyanese that it is becoming scary.Those Indo-Guyanese are introducing some new types of criminal activities that are unheard of in Barbados.I am telling you all it is scary.I would advise Barbadians especially us who are critical of Guyanese in Barbados to be extremely careful.Do not divulge much information about yourselves.Things are getting desperate.
    I would love to give the fellow bloggers the inside scoop on that particular murder.All I would say Indo-Guyanese,Black-Guyanese,construction of a house at Collymore Rock & a confrontation between black & Indo-Guyanese.
    This government has finally recognise the magnitude of the problem we are facing as a result of the unregulated influx of immigrants into Barbados.A special meeting was held today with some members the business community & other interest group to update them on government position on the immigration isssue and the its plan of action.
    Corrupt immigration officers,Customs officers Police officers & Senior Security officers at the airport the days of facilitating the process of getting work permits,permanent residency & citizenship for non-nationals especially Indo-Guyanese are coming to an end.
    Those Immigration,Custom,Police & Senior Security officers who arrange marriages and are marry to Indo-Guyanese women and who allowed them to receive status in Barbados the government know about the scam and measures are underway to curtail that activity.The days of getting quick & easy permanent status & citizenship are over.
    This country must be preserve for the future generations of black Barbadians.I could say with great confidence that this government is working on this immigration issue & are determine not to allow this country to fall to the level of a Trinidad or Guyana.

  • Bonny Peppa // November 11, 2008 at 9:01 PM

    Problem Child,
    What is so strange looking about Tony Marshall? We can’t be all Prince Charmings, like you.
    I am very attracted to him. I just love his voice and intelligence. I would marry him tomorrow if only he would propose. I find him very irresistible.
    He’s quite charming, to me, for his age.
    Leave him for me please, please.I luvs he bad bad. (smooches for Tony).
    How ya likes ma?

  • Anon // November 11, 2008 at 9:37 PM

    Wait the Immigration czar Gilbert Greaves gone? Heard his name on news as PS in another section of army of occupation. Who replace him Negroman?

  • John // November 12, 2008 at 9:43 AM

    In today’s Nation it is said that a man is “helping” Police with investigations into the death of Anna Druzhinina, 16.

    Hopefully this is a good sign and progress is being made.

  • JC // November 12, 2008 at 12:19 PM

    A woman Anon her name is Ms. Farmer! ha ha ha lol

  • JC // November 12, 2008 at 12:20 PM

    He is now the PS at the Attorney General’s Office!

  • The Scout // November 12, 2008 at 12:20 PM

    Who is doinf most of the kidnapping in T&T? Who is killing each other and committing suicides in Guyana? Which country is next in line? Negro Man, it is at this point that I take my exit from this topic. In futher, I would read the posts just for my own interest. The horse has bolted, it is time to seek pretection, therefore self-preservation is now my main focus. Look after yourself my man, time for warnings have pass.

  • Negroman // November 12, 2008 at 12:43 PM

    The Scout
    I understand your feelings & concerns. I am taking your warning to protect myself & family.Danger is upon us.
    As JC indicated Gilbert Greaves is not the Chief Immigration Officer anymore .He was the chief culprit in the leniency that was shown toward illegal immigrants especially Indo-Guyanese.His departure is in keeping with government’s committment to control the illegal immigration issue.Purging of the immigration,Customs,& Security departments at the airport is well underway.The immigartion,Customs & Security officers at the airport who facilitated status for illegal immigrants are being purge from those departments.The government knows of the bribery that many of those officers were involved in.The case of the immigration officer marrying an Indo-Guyanese woman and the easy granting of citizenship to that individual & her entire family including grand parents,nieces,nephews and the lot is well known
    Scout I agreed we have dealt with this subject very extensively and I was very critical of this government performance.However,my brother you could rest assure our efforts have not fallen on deaf ears and even though all illegals will not be deported and some will escape through the cracks, the holes in our immigration system are being plug and the free for all that existed under the last administration those days are gone.

  • Jay // November 15, 2008 at 12:35 AM

    Strange though,Gilbert Greaves use to be a good Chief Immigration officer sometime ago,but I don’t know what happened to him as of late under the BLP.

    The reality though is that I glad this situation is going to be managed & hopefully the DLP can keep it up.I tip my hat to the new Chief immigration officer,Minister of Immigration & Prime Minister.

    The usual mal-aligned forces of Norman Faria & Rickey Singh are at it however.There really is no case for PERMANENT immigration no matter the excuse,bajans have had enough.
    http://www.nationnews.com/editorial/319514333502529.php

  • Tom Jones // November 15, 2008 at 8:19 AM

    We really need someone to have a quiet word with Norman & Rickey.

  • Anonymous // December 13, 2008 at 9:26 PM

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