Barbadians who read the Nation newspaper yesterday would have learned about a scam where LIME (Cable & Wireless) customers are being targeted by fraudsters. The way the scam works: a LIME customer receives a text or call from a telephone number in the range 00 88213 213505 which could result in the customer being billed up to USD15.00 per minute. LIME (Cable & Wireless) was quick to make it clear that “calls and text messages to these numbers (00 882) will be billed at the applicable international rate.”
In the absence of an investigative media, a Fair Trading Commission (FTC) which is customer centric and a passive consumer advocacy environment, Barbadians have been left to wonder who are to look after their interest in cases highlighted by this latest scam.
Fortunately some of us have the Internet.
The Opera Telcom scam perpetrated on Barbadians last year and featured exhaustively on BU and Barbados Free Press was done with the help of the discussion forum, The Scream. The Scream is a UK based online forum dedicated to exposing information about ISPs. We must confess that the discussions can get very technical.
Luckily for Barbadians they have taken a keen interest in the latest scam which seems to be targeted at LIME (Cable & Wireless). The first nugget of information which should interest Barbadians is that the LIME (Cable & Wireless) customer database may have been hacked by fraudsters. It may explain why only LIME customers are being affected and not Digicel.
Secondly, we want to take issue with the statement which was issued by LIME (Cable & Wireless) reported in the Nation newspaper “calls and text messages to these numbers (00 882) will be billed at the applicable international rate.” According to The Scream “the telephone operator does not keep all that money. According to the international carrier agreement it has with the foreign operator it routes the call to, it must send that operator a portion of the take.” The gist of the quote confirms that whether LIME (Cable&Wireless) want it or not they will be receiving revenue from the fraudulent calls. It is therefore untruthful for LIME (Cable & Wireless) to issue the statement that customers will have to pay applicable international rates. The honest statement would have been to indicate that LIME customers would benefit from adjustments after the redistribution of the the international carrier commissions received by LIME (Cable & Wireless).
For members of the BU family who are interested in the origination of the 882 number, here is what The Scream has posted:
88213 is a virtual country code assigned by the International Telecommunications Union (ITU) to Telespazio S.p.A. of Rome, Italy about 10 years ago. All numbers starting by 00 88213 are controlled directly or indirectly by Telespazio. They are intended for special calls to the Emsat network vis satellite. International carrier agreements allow your local telephone operator to charge whatever has been agreed to for this international satellite service. Could be as high as 9 euros/minute, maybe even more.
THEREFORE, NEVER, EVER CALL ANY NUMBER STARTING WITH 00 88213 …unless you really know who you are calling!
Here is the link to all the information about this scam. We invite the journalists in Barbados to do some work after reading what our friends over at The Scream have posted.
100 responses so far ↓
Barbados » The Country of Barbados ~ West Indies // November 14, 2008 at 10:02 AM
[...] LIME (Cable & Wireless) Being Squeezed By Scammer: Are Barbadians …Barbadians who read the Nation newspaper yesterday would have learned about a scam where LIME (Cable & Wireless) customers are being targeted by fraudsters. The way the scam works: a LIME customer receives a text or call from a … [...]
Ayden Amber // November 14, 2008 at 10:38 AM
Your statement that “the LIME (Cable & Wireless) customer database may have been hacked by fraudsters.” is inaccurate, misleading and possibly malicious. Anyone who has an idea of the area code, and the next three digits in the number range can simply guess the next four numbers, or sequentially dial and get a very high chance of finding a working number. You should therefore clarify your posting which suggests that there is some vulnerability that LIME has that Digicel may not have.
The most useful bit in all the details given is that readers should remember that the scam works by trying to entice them to return a missed call to that number, for which they will be billed. Therefore, their number one objective is that they should NOT return any missed call from that number range.
Regards.
David // November 14, 2008 at 10:55 AM
We assure you that we are not being malicious. If our resident expert Chris says we are stretching it we will say so but until C&W aka LIME comes clean we will continue to break eggs over this issue.
Chris Halsall // November 14, 2008 at 11:22 AM
@David et al…
The suggestion of the database being hacked is a bit of a stretch… As Ayden Amber points out, all it would take is someone running through the number ranges (known as “war dialing” in the hacking community…). The ranges of cellular numbers is public (or at least, industry) knowledge, published in the “LERG” and elsewhere.
Also, it’s *very* important to point out that a consumer will *not* be exposed to a $15 a minute charge if they *answer* a call from such a number — only if they *place* a call to same. (They will, however, be exposed to their regular air-time charges.)
Chris Halsall // November 14, 2008 at 11:28 AM
Oh, and as a follow-up…
It *is* within the power of LIME to reverse these charges. There are mechanisms within the telecommunications industry (read: between carriers) to refuse to pay for fraudulent activity.
My counsel would be for anyone who *has* dialed this number to register a formal complaint to LIME requesting a reversal of the charge, CCed to the FTC and the Telecommunications Unit.
David // November 14, 2008 at 11:36 AM
Thanks Chris!
We stand corrected on the points which you clarified. Look forward to your leadership on this particular blog.
Ayden Amber // November 14, 2008 at 12:26 PM
Chris, thanks for the clarity.
David, I withdraw my accusation, your response proves that you were not being deliberately malicious.
The suggestion to take this up with LIME is worth the effort. At the end of the day, I hope better mechanisms can be put in place to curb the SOURCE of these scammers, and any carriers who are party with them.
European // November 14, 2008 at 12:43 PM
Chris,
There may be some truth in what you say but it does not explain why the fraudsters decided to target Lime customers and not Digicel. It is also possible that the fraudsters bought these numbers. The buying and selling of such data lists is big business in Europe and the regulators here are well aware of it.
Firstly Lime has a mechanism (Artificially Inflated Traffic, AIT) that flags up abnormal call patterns. This is used by Networks to protect Networks from fraud. Unfortunately we have learnt in Europe that this mechanism is ’switched’ off if the dubious calls are going to valid customer accounts that the Networks know to be ‘billable’.
Also if the calls were randomly generated many of these calls would go to brand new Lime sims and Lime would presumably realize this.
http://www.sknvibes.com/Business/NewsDetails.cfm/7335
In an exclusive interview with SKNVibes, LIME’s Corporate Communications Vice President Lavern Caines……..
She said the occurrences seem to be part of a scam aimed at swindling credit from both LIME and its customers.
This statement simply is not true. These numbers are ‘revenue share’ numbers. The billing Network and the telecom company that own the numbers share the revenue. The telecom company that owns the number may share their revenue with a third party who they have allocated the number to.
Lime know the company on whose behalf they are billing, and the national regulator of that company could easily identify the third party company that is using the number.
Chris Halsall // November 14, 2008 at 12:51 PM
Now, let’s talk about the economics of this particular scam…
It is almost certain that the calls coming *into* LIME’s network is not taking the same route as the “CallerID” suggests. Thus, the question is, where are they coming from?
All calls generate what are known as Call Detail Records (CDRs). In fact, they create at least one CDR per Carrier.
LIME could audit their CDRs, and determine what Trunk Group the calls originate from, and thusly what Carrier. Additionally, they could block *both* incoming calls with this CID, as well as (*very*, *very* importantly) all *outgoing* calls to same.
I find it incredible (and incorrigible) that LIME have the audacity to warn the public that they’ll be exposed to charges for calls to this number.
The reason is, of course (as David correctly points out in the article above) that LIME actually profit from the outgoing calls. However, what might have been missed is they’re also profiting from the *incoming* calls and text messages.
The consumers’ best interests? Empirically, LIME doesn’t care…
Chris Halsall // November 14, 2008 at 1:03 PM
@European… I agree with everything you’ve said above.
My argument about “war dialing” was meant as a possible explination which did not involve LIME’s database being hacked. As you said, databases are another possibility. And, in fact, these don’t even have to be purchased — they can be created from WWW search engine spiders, or from the CDRs of any PBX.
As to why Digicel aren’t being targeted, I think you might have (indirectly) answered this question. AITs, High Failure Rates, et al metrics are commonly used by carriers to detect fraud. However, these metrics need to be monitored…
I will also present that I’m modelling a 50% likelihood that these calls are actually originating within Barbados. Without sharing how, I personally could generate such calls with about five minutes work…
Follow the money, and clarity is often found…
Chris Halsall // November 14, 2008 at 1:06 PM
@All… One last observation…
Q. Why are cell phones being targeted?
A. They’re much more likely to have Caller ID.
Chris Halsall // November 14, 2008 at 2:48 PM
@All… What I am about to say is public knowledge…
It is always interesting to examine the behaviour of an organism (including a Company) when same is faced with different situations and stimuli…
In this case of a foreign entity trying to defraud LIME customers, LIME has taken the position of warning its customers that they will be charged if they make the mistake of calling an International number which is shown as the CallerID of a call carried by LIME’s own network to LIME’s own customers.
LIME does not appear interested in blocking this fraudulent behaviour, even though it is completely within their ability and rights.
However, on 2007.02.27 LIME (then C&W) blocked all access to a local Carrier because they were offering Two Stage Dialing (TSD) services.
On 2007.03.02 service was restored to this Carrier, *with* *the* *exception* of those numbers being used to offer TSD (and a few other) services.
In my (deeply) considered opinion, the TSD services being offered by this Carrier fall within the acceptable use of the existing Reference Interconnection Offers (RIOs), which the Carrier signed.
So, my observation is: it is *very* interesting that LIME (then C&W) have demonstrated that they are quite capable and able to block calling to certain numbers when they consider it in their best interests.
But then seem to be unable (or unwilling, or unmotivated) to block calling to certain numbers in this instance of demonstrated fraud against their own customers.
Things that make you go “humm….”
I submit my above to anyone interested, and am prepared to stand behind and speak to this in any court of law under oath.
Farmz // November 14, 2008 at 3:04 PM
Had this happen to me a couple days ago.
My cell phone rang about twice, and then stopped. When I checked I saw the number in my missed calls, but innocently figured that someone overseas dialed a wrong number and realised in time and hung up.
I certainly didn’t recognise the number, so had no intention of calling it back. the number which “called me” was 088213 229020
ROK // November 14, 2008 at 3:14 PM
Chris, you know my answer to all this bobbing and weaving. Over and over, I have been constantly trying to demonstrate that C&W does not have their customers at heart.
I am therefore glad for your analysis that I can add to the list of acts and omissions that this company engage in where the bottom line is lining their pockets.
Starting with old outdated equipment which their engineer said they will not be changing for some time to come. So if I am to believe him, it means that LIME is just another re-brand to shoot new buzz in the company, while the company carries with in its old ways.
This company doing just what it likes. It has the capacity to hire the lawyers and accountants to show them how to beat the system.
They made $90M this year? Watch how it goes up next year. It goes up steadily every year, from $50M three years ago; and this was predicted to happen based on the evidence coming out of the last rate hearing.
David // November 14, 2008 at 3:47 PM
Let us see if we understand what was written above correctly. C&W aka LIME has the tools at large to block these numbers?
Also they have done it before in other circumstances.
It begs the question why would they refuse to block these numbers and allow the bad PR to ensue. Especially with the current rebrand exercise.
Chris Halsall // November 14, 2008 at 3:52 PM
@David…
You understand exactly correctly.
I’m working on a deeper answer for my dear friend ROK.
Chris Halsall // November 14, 2008 at 4:04 PM
@David: Sorry, I didn’t answer this question: “It begs the question why would they refuse to block these numbers and allow the bad PR to ensue.
Because they’re making profit… Profit is worth more than public opinion… (In the short term, IMHO.)
Chris Halsall // November 14, 2008 at 4:59 PM
@All… Just for fun…
Quoting the Nation News report: “Technical sources have said blocking these numbers would not solve the problem since it would also affect users who want to make legitimate international calls.
Fsck me…
Blocking a single number will have *no* impact on “users who want to make legitimate international calls”.
Please tell us Nation News… who is your “technical source”? Dare they share their name?
Or is this simply too much to ask?
Chris Halsall // November 14, 2008 at 5:19 PM
@All (and Nation News…)
I’m sorry; I made a mistake:
@Nation News: “Technical *sources*”
@Nation News: Can you please provide *two* or *more* names who are willing to provide their names, and are willing to stand behind this language?
@All.. I really can be a pr1ck, can’t 1…
Livinginbarbados // November 14, 2008 at 9:56 PM
If these numbers are known scams then there should be no problem or issue for LIME or any other provider to either block that specific number (as they are identified) or reverse the charge. I got a call from this number, as did a friend at the same time, suggesting that it is a robot. If I do get charged for this call, I will be disputing it with LIME/C&W.
Bofat_international // November 15, 2008 at 7:04 AM
The numbers are known to be used by scammers for many years. Nothing was done to change the situation. No regulation, nothing. And LIME was C&W – they have been the “early birds” of the “golden numbers” in faraway-lands…
http://www.the-scream.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?p=207341#post207341
Bofat_international // November 15, 2008 at 7:13 AM
The new link top the australian court document that ismentioned in The Scream is here
http://www.lawlink.nsw.gov.au/scjudgments/2004nswsc.nsf/00000000000000000000000000000000/07176a31082a9675ca256f4a00077075?opendocument
Read the court document and you will understand the way this “moneymaking” works.
This is – as far as we know – the most elaborated explanation of the international phonecall systems – and the way scammers and others can make profit here. A “must read” :)
It works for “so called” legal activities (phonesex, tarot cards, astrology) but it also works perfect for scammers – because there are only winners in the game, except the consumers.
Bofat_international // November 15, 2008 at 7:58 AM
You should all try to
- get the media interested
- get the police interested (*)
- get Telespazio interested (**)
(*): If someone is calling you and it rings 1x, you get a “missed call”. If you call back, you do so, because you are tricked to believe that someone wanted to get in touch with you. This is fraud. So this is a matter for the police.
The Police can get the information they need – for example about the money flows. This worked in the US with the Moldova Scam in 1997 and it should work here also. At least it could work ;)
(**)
Telespazio S.p.A.
Via Tiburtina, 965
00156 Rome (Italy)
Ph. +39 06 40791
Communication
communication@telespazio.com
Ph. +39 06 4079 3291
fax +39 06 4099 9906
Press Office
pressoffice@telespazio.com
Ph. +39 06 4079 6252/3291
fax +39 06 4099 9910
Marketing and Sales
marketing@telespazio.com
sales@telespazio.com
fax +39 06 4079 3760
General Lee // November 15, 2008 at 9:14 AM
+88213229035
My cell is a prepaid with no credit currently, yet the above number was able to call me.
I can only receive calls from bmobile so I will assume that these calls, are originating from within the bmobile network.
Could this be the “Entertainment” promised when you “LIME”?
Chris Halsall // November 15, 2008 at 10:19 AM
@General Lee: THANK YOU!!!
A *very* important observation!
Things that make you go humm…
David // November 15, 2008 at 10:21 AM
@Bofat_international
Thanks for all the good information. We know that most journalists read the blogs and we are hopeful that they would be encouraged to pursue this issue with a little more vigour. We are also aware that Barbados Consumer Watch personnel frequent the blogs hopefully they can issue a press release or use contacts in the media to bring some more focus to the issue. Their silence on the rebranding from a critical standpoint has been deafening so far.
On whether the media will respond we are doubtful. C&W aka LIME is one of the major institutional advertisers in Barbados, especially with the fierce competition ongoing with Digicel. We have even heard Mr. Vic Fernandes aka market vendor and CEO of STARCOM boasting about the Blackberry he received from C&W, no doubt complimentary. Yes indeed the Barbados media will not risk retaliation from C&W because the current arrangement of prostituting themselves has been most beneficial to everyone.
Although the Police maybe under equipped to deal with this matter we are sure that they have the resources of Interpol at their disposal.
Hopefully Chris who is better versed than others in the BU family can draft a note to
Telespazio S.p.A.
Via Tiburtina, 965
00156 Rome (Italy)
Ph. +39 06 40791
What is to stop the scam from resurfacing if C&W aka LIME demonstrates a reluctance to plug the holes in their system? Who is responsible for educating the public about their rights? This is an issue which Joe Sixpack maybe intimidated to explore.
General Lee // November 15, 2008 at 11:47 AM
Chris Halsall // November 14, 2008 at 4:59 pm
“Quoting the Nation News report: “Technical sources have said blocking these numbers would not solve the problem since it would also affect users who want to make legitimate international calls.”
I am beginnig to think that it is not really a “scam” after all.
If these numbers are legitimate ones for companies offering various products and services, then these calls could be seen as marketing ploys. (Spamming). Persons interested would then call said numbers (legitimate calls) for more information.
Thanks to google I now know that “88213″ is a virtual country code and not a “real” country code.
General Lee // November 15, 2008 at 11:57 AM
Chris Halsall // November 14, 2008 at 1:06 pm
@All… One last observation…
Q. Why are cell phones being targeted?
A. They’re much more likely to have Caller ID.
It took a while but it has finally become clear.
ROK // November 15, 2008 at 12:23 PM
David
BCW may be new but the advocates behind them has been saying these things in public for years.
In saying that let me complement the blogs for delving into the matter because the media get their subsistence from C&W and so does Government. Where are we advocates but voices crying in the wilderness.
The Advocate and the Nation refused to publish BANGO articles on C&W. As a result, we stopped contributing to the Advocate. You may remember that it had a “Civil Society Platform” which was headed BANGO. We did it free and all we asked for was the paper in which it was published to be sent to us and even that was denied after a while.
We are glad for the contributions here. We have to think about this and prepare something for the public which will probably get aired in this blog anyhow.
The only thing to do is mount public platforms. Anybody here willing to speak on a platform or engage in a panel discussion? I think I know the answer to that. Besides me, there is only one brave soul here; not including political parties.
David // November 15, 2008 at 12:39 PM
ROK our mention of BCW was not a criticism it was to state what is. We appreciate the predicament you, Hallam, Annette and the others are in. In our case although we operate under the cloak of anonymity we do so knowing that there are grave risks to what we are doing. Most Barbadians are happy to go along by not rocking the boat, we are a peaceful and passive people. It is why people are coming into Barbados are pissing all over us. But what can we do but to continue to bang away at the keyboards and hope that our little voice can help to continue make Barbados a better place. On a good note we again welcome Bush tea to the blogosphere. We see that he has a hard hitting blog about the disappearing $100 dollar notes from the Central Bank.
General Lee // November 15, 2008 at 1:18 PM
@ David
Please fix the link in your last post.
Chris Halsall // November 16, 2008 at 12:46 PM
@General Lee: “I am beginnig to think that it is not really a “scam” after all.
With respect, you are wrong. This is very much a scam.
And thanks to your own observation of receiving such a call on a prepaid phone without credit has shown (with 99% probability) that these calls are being *originated* on LIME’s own network. (This also explains why LIME numbers are being targeted.)
Someone is probably using a GSM Gateway to originate the calls, setting the CID to be the 00882 number(s) that they want called.
It puts into question even further LIMEs claim that they can’t do anything about this. Their switches shouldn’t even *accept* a call with a CID which is set to a number which is not tied to the SIM card(s) being used.
Not only is this truly fraud, but LIME are (at the very least) being complicit in this activity.
Again, to be completely clear, this activity is (almost certainly) being conducted *entirely* on LIMEs own network.
General Lee // November 16, 2008 at 4:47 PM
@ Chris
I now agree.
Isn’t technology great.
“Caller ID spoofing is the practice of causing the telephone network to display a number on the recipient’s caller ID display which is not that of the actual originating station;…………… Because of the high trust people have tended to have in the caller ID system, spoofing can call the system’s value into question.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caller_ID_spoofing
J // November 17, 2008 at 2:10 AM
Dear Ayden Amber and Chris Halsall:
Do you understand that your techie talk is all gooble-de-gook to us ordinary non-techie idiots out here.
I did not understand a word of what you two wrote. You may as well have been writing in Greek.
However as a matter of (some may say rude) practice I NEVER return any call from numbers which I do not recognize.
If you want J you will just have to keep calling until you get me. And that may be weeks, or months or maybe never.
J // November 17, 2008 at 2:32 AM
Dear Chris:
“I find it incredible (and incorrigible) ”
Why would you find anything about C &W/Lime incredible and Incorrigible.?
About five years ago those rascals billed me $40 for a call to a pornographic hotline in Washington D.C. A call that was NEVER made from my home. When the call showed up on my bill I goggled the number and discovered that it was a Washington, D.C. number. I called C & W and they told me that it was a pornographic hotline. At the time the call was alleged to have been made one member of my household was verifiably at work in a public place and the rest of us were together at a public event. I kept the program from the public event for years. I fought C &W for almost two years but eventually paid because they cut my service when I refused to pay.
I even pointed out to the unhelpful C & W rep that I did not need to call a foreign hotline seeking sexual satisfaction, that I was capable of attaining unpaid sexual satisfaction right here in Barbados. The service rep laughed at me.
However I got the last laugh. Now all members of my household have Digicell cell phones. Hell will freeze over before we do any cell phone business with LIME. Let them keep the $40.
This is the traditional Bajan way.
LIME..Long Interlude of Music Everytime // November 18, 2008 at 12:20 AM
I am here sitting at work, one of the merly 5 internet agents on duty here at limers are us. However, we have not been liming at all. I have been talking all night to the hundereds of lime customers out there, who have called to complain about the piss poor service they are getting. I would like to scream to the top of my voice …YOU HAVE OPTIONS. There is DIGICEL, FREE MOTION, SUNBEACH and you can even use VONAGE right here in BIM. You people are so frustrated yet you have 10 features on your landline, the highest internet package, a LIME mobile and many of you are spending more than $300.00 to this company that you supposedly hate.
If you have a man/woman who is not treating you right, and you decide to stay, dare I say you are saying “I deserve the stink treatment, I am not worth the effort” Do you know that LIME customers in Jamaica do NOT have to request a credit…it is automatic. When Digicel and Flow were introduced in Jamaica LIME lost 80 % of the market share to the competition but here in BIM lime is holding on strong and still would like to send home 400 employess from Barbados and outsource their departments operate in cheaper countries, like St. Lucia.
I believe Barbadians love to LIME with LIME !
Lisa // November 18, 2008 at 1:16 AM
I quite agree with the above. Bajans do enjoy a good LIME. However, about the issue @ hand. May I point out, I have a LIME service and I get text messages constantly about promotions, my bill being due, new products ect…Not once have I gotten a text from LIME informing me about this scam. Wonder why? lol
Chris Halsall // November 18, 2008 at 1:05 PM
@J: “Do you understand that your techie talk is all gooble-de-gook to us ordinary non-techie idiots out here. I did not understand a word of what you two wrote. You may as well have been writing in Greek.
First of all, please let me say that there is a big difference between being an idiot, and being ignorant.
However, I truly feel we’ve entered a new “dark ages”. Consumers of technology are more than happy to throw up their hands and say “I can’t understand this”.
Oh, to the contrary!
Technology is Science. Thusly, by definition, it can be reduced down to fundamentals, and understood by anyone.
Unfortunately, because people are happy to accept their ignorance with glee, they’re exposed to the whims and agendas of the “wizards”.
That’s fine, right up until the “magic” stops working correctly. Then the consumers of same are exposed to extortion by said wizards.
(Read: LIME, Micro$oft, auto mechanics, lawyers, et al.)
.22 // November 19, 2008 at 10:43 PM
@LIME..Long Interlude of Music Everytime: “There is DIGICEL, FREE MOTION, SUNBEACH”
Digicel is at least the ‘alternative’ as one of the carriers I can switch to without a problem. *However*, the other two aforementioned aren’t alternatives personally.
In 2005, When we were using Sunbeach’s dial-up, the bills were tremendously high because Sunbeach had to use C&W’s platform and plus it is not the value worth the service for paying such old speeds. In early 2006, we switched providers to C&W which is a little ease and runs with ADSL, we didn’t encounter problems in for the first 2 years but the 3rd year is absolutely horrible in February then later August till now. Then I had to do research why was C&W was having problems just to learn now today. We were thinking about switching providers, I visited FreeMotion but however, the prices for the speeds are slower and its not as fast at a price that doesn’t convince us to switch.
So all of our alternatives to switch were of no use to the value of the money.
Tell Me Why’s suggestion of opening up the telecoms market is in order again to bring the ‘true competition’ so that we Barbadians put the ‘true value’ on better rates and services, is the only solution to that problem. Not ‘High Rates’ to the Barbados public at a time we are all over the world are in an Economic downslide.
I’ve recently about to write a letter to Verizon. But I didn’t plan to mail it anytime soon…
.22 // November 19, 2008 at 10:54 PM
@David: “Let us see if we understand what was written above correctly. C&W aka LIME has the tools at large to block these numbers?
Also they have done it before in other circumstances.
It begs the question why would they refuse to block these numbers and allow the bad PR to ensue. Especially with the current rebrand exercise.”
I can throw this out to ya for a clumsy answer, follow the victim’s ‘money’. I guess.
Disturbed! // November 20, 2008 at 10:05 AM
NOw let me say first off I work for LIME and I am damn proud of it. Now I know that in the world of business, organizations can get very underhanded , but have you idiots who have claimed that LIME is trying to gain money from this really thought about the situation?
You do not get BILLED for receiving international calls. You do not get BILLED for answering your calls. You only get billed when you decide to pick up your phone and call the number!!!!!!!!! We as human beings like to feel too damn important! Why the hell would you call a number THAT YOU DO NOT KNOW and that is OBVIOUSLY and international number!!!!!!!!!!! That is plain DUMB! And I am trying to be very conservative with my words here because I would LOVE to be more colourful!
Now you have received a call (mind you I received it too), the phone cuts out, why is it that the first thing you do is call the damn number??????? Do you know it? I advise people should invest in voicemail to help curb their stupidity!
I saw that number calling and it rang off. i waited, no voicemail left. i said whoever it was would call back if it is important and i have several international numbers calling me regualrly, but if I do not recognise the number I AINT GUN CALL!!!!!!!!!!
LIME does NOT need to scam people to make money! Its your daily habits that help the company make its revenue! So KINDLY CEASE AND DESIST from defaming MY organization!!!!!!!!! Lord knows i may not be here much longer with the transformation and all, but I hate uneducated and ignorant comments!!!!!!!!
Chris Halsall // November 20, 2008 at 2:55 PM
@Disturbed!: “LIME does NOT need to scam people to make money!”
Agreed. However, empirically, they don’t *appear* to have done anything to stop this scam, even though it can been proven that they could.
Let me please ask you, as a self-claimed employee of LIME:
1. Has LIME audited their CDRs to determine the origins of these calls?
2. Has LIME done anything to prevent this scam?
3. Is not LIME profiting from the calls being generated?
4. Is LIME going to automatically reverse all charges?
I think the above BLOG posts clear drills down on the situation, and comes to reasonable conclusions based on the evidence available.
@Disturbed!: “Why the hell would you call a number THAT YOU DO NOT KNOW and that is OBVIOUSLY and international number!!!!!!!!!!!
Some of us regularly receive legitimate calls from international numbers which we have never seen before.
Some of us deal with persons and companies where a missed call is a big deal.
Some of us simply accept (begrudgingly) that international calling is ridiculously expensive from Barbados, and factor this into our cost of doing business, in the hopes that (some day) the “powers that be” will *eventually* implement the laws and policy on their own books which will reduce these costs to the consumer to be more appropriate relative to the actual costs (to the Carriers) to implement these services…
@Disturbed!: “…but I hate uneducated and ignorant comments!!!!!!!!”
I have to admit that I (personally) am uneducated (formally); I hold no letters behind my name (with the exception of “MENSA”). School bored the me to tears…
However, trust me when I tell you that I am *not* ignorant on such matters.
@Disturbed!: “So KINDLY CEASE AND DESIST from defaming MY organization!!!!!!!!!
Ah, yeah. Here we go. Shut up about things we don’t want talked about, or we’ll sue you. (Or at least threaten to, and then back down when the ramifications of “discovery” kick in.)
Been there; done that. Have the legal correspondence (and the lawyers’ bills)….
Chris Halsall // November 20, 2008 at 3:13 PM
@Disturbed!… A follow up question…
Do you have the “testicular fortitude” to share your real name?
Or are you simply going to claim (and threaten) your above as yet another “Anonymous Coward”? Talks real big, but is not repaired to stand behind and take responsibility for your words….
Chris Halsall // November 20, 2008 at 3:14 PM
Damn…
In the Geek: s/repaired/prepared/
J // November 20, 2008 at 5:46 PM
Go Chris, go, go, go.
J // November 20, 2008 at 5:49 PM
Dear Disturbed:
You wrote “I advise people should invest in voicemail to help curb their stupidity! :
What!!!!!!!!!! Just so LIME can make more money to pay LIMErs like you.
J // November 20, 2008 at 5:51 PM
And Disturbed since you work for LIME and LIME has the capacity to block these scamsters, why does not LIME block them
Or perhaps LIME does not value its good name
J // November 20, 2008 at 5:51 PM
Oh I forgot. LIME has no good name to protect.
Anonymous // November 20, 2008 at 6:13 PM
Severely disturbed
The Mobile component of your new acronym should be Cell – LICE is far more appropriate.
Time for a LIME // November 21, 2008 at 12:49 PM
@ Disturbed!
I see they have brain washed you well. You are probably are one of those well paid faithful behind the scenes LIMErs who are the ones who really aint got shit to do at LIME. While I agree that the company does not need to resort to tactics such as this to make money, If you were @ the firing line like me you would know full well that Cable and Wireless / LIME, whatever they choose to call it, doesnt give 2 ……about You, God man or de devil. So you are one big jack @ss to come here and defend the company, there are persons paid loads of money to do that, but hey maybe you are one of them.
ROK // November 22, 2008 at 7:28 PM
@ Disturbed,
You think you have a company? I can show you about 1400 people who thought they had a company that worked for the same company as you. Some ended up drunkards.
Bofat_international // November 23, 2008 at 7:54 AM
The REASON why people are calling back is absolutely irrelevant when judging if we are talking about fraud or not.
It IS fraud, because they are pinging people to feign an INTEREST in reaching them, read:
They feign their WILL to communicate. Because people accept that OFFER to communicate they decide to call back (and to spend money).
THIS IS FRAUD by definition – and it is irrelevant if more attention would prevent them from making the wrong decision.
So you are off the point when blaming the victims of that fraud.
LIME has the possibility to stop that fraud or to try to find the ones that are committing the fraud.
It is not known who has a contract with the owner of that number about sharing the profit. It could be Cable&Wireless because C&W is KNOWN to have such contracts (see OPTUS vs Gilsan case in Australia).
Those contracts are made for “legitimate” use of such numbers although it is VERY disputed if legitimate is not just an euphemism for unfair when the cost of an international call is not made clear in the advertising of such numbers.
I believe that you are working at LIME, but I am doubting that you understand what this scam is about.
Ask your LIME managers, they may tell you some facts about international phone numbers and the sharing schemes.
If nobody at LIME has an idea, please get in touch with our office. I would love to come over to Barbados for some lessons if LIME pays the flight and a small fee :)
J // November 23, 2008 at 10:32 AM
@ROK “Some ended up drunkards.”
Some were always drunkards, only now thay are drunkards on their own time.
stubby // November 23, 2008 at 12:27 PM
Cable and Wireless spent millions of dollars to come up with an anal name like LIME? The prickle paros on my block who steal my limes could do better.
ROK // November 23, 2008 at 8:29 PM
J
You would pass it off so easily. You mean they have no more drunkards at C&W liming on the job?
You are full of yourself. You feel you in a safe haven? That is how you talk about your colleagues? I hope you don’t find yourself at that end of the stick ’cause to be sure, somebody else will be talking about you the same way you are talking about your drunkard colleagues. Don’t feel too smug; some people would put their mouths on you and for sure you would not reach a climax.
Stubby // November 28, 2008 at 7:04 PM
The funds Cable and Wireless misused for the ludicrous replacement title LIME would have saved those 250 jobs.
I am switching my account from C+W to Digicell. Cable and Wireless was a business like solid company title. What is LIME? A roll of turd.
firstlady // November 28, 2008 at 11:48 PM
Thought I was working for a place of intregrity but at LIME I was so mistaken !!!! Wanting me to sell your products & services for months while you train the persons in St Lucia to take my job.Well customers sorry if I have no empathy here of late when u threaten to withdraw your accounts or call ranting and raving when your fault report has not been cleared , I dont give an ass!!! Couldnt care less to be honest ,Its more management not me !!!!!
Thoughtful // November 30, 2008 at 5:40 PM
A place of integrity? Where did you get that idea? Was is when you heard about one executive getting 22 million pounds in bonus while workers in the caribbean suffer?
ROK // November 30, 2008 at 6:36 PM
Stubby
That was my sentiment when I first heard it.
Technician // November 30, 2008 at 9:55 PM
Disturbed sounds like Donald Austin.
Talked the same kind of shite at meetings.
Or Ed Bushell or Trevor Clarke or….ooops cant be Gail Springer or Deighton Marshall…dem get fired long time.
LIME got he good.
hot lava // December 1, 2008 at 5:13 PM
Or Ed Bushell or Trevor Clarke or….ooops cant be Gail Springer or Deighton Marshall…dem get fired long time.
……………………………………………………………
Ed Bushell is a pimp and parasite.
sOUR // December 3, 2008 at 12:14 AM
I hope disturbed dont work in HR. lol cause dem going from 13 to 2. lol. Get on board with LIME. STINK for customers WORSE for staff!!! Wonder how all a dem employees that help launch LIME feel…. I for one think dem get a sour deal!
Disturbed! // December 4, 2008 at 12:01 PM
@Chris, I do not need to air my name for me to be heard. Anyone who knows me well enough, already knows who I am and that is enough.Parading my name does not change the issue at hand and you can call me what you like but I dont owe anyone here a thing so you get over yourself!
@Time for a Lime- Sorry to burst your bubble, but I am one of the lowest paid at LIME. Just above the temporary staff…do the maths. I do not need to be raking in the big bucks to be a dedicated human being. i will tell you I got my sense of pride and industry first from my family, then my country, and last but by no means least, my lovely stint at Combermere Secondary School. Anyone who was a part of that WONDERFUL school will then understand my sense of pride!So people, pride is built into my veins.
I stand up and defend everything that has made me who I am today whether good or bad. I know that businesses are underhanded, I said so very early in my post, but what I spoke to was the ignorance of people and then others looking to blame a company for it. I do not know how much it will cost for LIME to reverse the charges, or for them to stop the calls from coming, however, even if it costs 2c, why should the company use its resources to support ignorance?
There is one person who made a very good point and that is the one about business people who have miscalls. i do reinterate however, that voicemail is there for that purpose, and I would hope that as a business person you are on top of your game and know the area codes of the places you do business with so you would be privy to the possibility of calls coming from any international number. Also, persons who do LIGITIMATE business usually leave messages without problems.
@J- Voicemail for mobile phones with LIME Barbados has been free for a while!!!!!!!!!!!!Again we look for excuses to curb our ignorance.
@ROK- I do not think I have a company, but I think it is stupid when you work for a company that you do not take pride in! If you have such a big problem why the hell don’t people leave? Do you kow why? Double frigging standards. People know very well that LIME pays some of the best salaries int he region and thats why they don’t leave! They get and bitch and bicker and infest a sense of agony in their daily operations but they stay, even though the company is oh so bad!!!!!!!!I suggest people take a look at themselves and their standards before casting a stone at C&W! If you have ever so much standards, and the company is ever so bad, then LEAVE! I said before and I say again, yes i know the company is not the best, but ya kno wat, neither are many other companies out there! So what do you do? I am certain there are Prime Ministers who don’t do things you like either, and they do things with your taxes that don’t please you, but do you up and leave the country? NO! Cuz more often than not you can’t afford to!And all the talk, i dont know a Bajan who does not stand up for this little rock! All i am saying is have pride in who you are and forget about the underhanded things unless you are involved and then that is a matter for you and GOD. It doesnt call to me, every month my salary is in the bank, and as i said before, even though I may not be here much longer, there is nothing wrong with having pride in who you are!
@Bofat_Internation- I understand what a scam is, and i understand it is fraud, However, God gave each and every human being the sense of free will, therefore you do as you please and suffer the consequences. it is the same way people have the choice to not drink and drive, but then they do, end up killing an innocent person, and then will expect the court to have mercy on them!!!!!!!!! IT IS FOLLY! Do what you are to do or you risk getting in a fatal accident. Simple.The organization is being operated by human beings just as yourselves so anything is possible.
People all im saying is have a little pride in who you are. People are going home all around me and it is a nasty atmosphere, but my attitude is, it could be worst! if you die tomorrow, then you don’t have to worry about any scam LIME may have, but then you lose out on everything else in life too. Life is too damn short and no I’m not in HR and the department I am in is going to be cut DRASTICALLY, but i have life, so bickering over useless things aint my bag! Thousands of people have gone home in the US. GM has indicated thousands more will go by March 2009 from their company alone! There is always something out there that is worst!
ROK // December 4, 2008 at 1:32 PM
Disturbed
You talk about double standards and want to stand up for a company that tramples your own people. You work for them, so do an honest day and get your honest pay, but don’t overstep the boundaries to fulfill your fantasies about believing in who you work for.
Just do what you have to do and don’t think that anybody else lives up to your standards; ’cause your company certainly does not hold your high moral standards. I can see that you are a man of standards; just don’t be a fool for anybody else or in you efforts, hold up the wicked, otherwise you should ask yourself what you are doing??? You will answer to your creator for that; be careful.
Disturbed! // December 4, 2008 at 1:52 PM
That i know ROK and that is why I ask, what can you do? From the bible days you have had crooked employers, so do not still need to work in order to survive? We need to concentrate on who we are, and what difference we can make. Check for ourselves! When we die the Lord is NOT going to ask us about our crooked employers who “juck” out people’s eyes! He is going to ask about US! So how then are we going to answer for ourselves when we meet our maker? Oh my company is didn’t care about me so I did as I pleased and carried on defaming their name? It is obvious what C&W is doing, most if not all employers do something or another which is not in the best interest of its employees or customers, but we have to answer for ourselves. i am certain if some of us sit and reassess our lives we will find SO MANY undesirable things that we probably did as kids, and we sit and laugh at these things now as adult, but we don’t find what LIME is doing as funny now do we?
We always have standards until the tables are turned. I am not saying LIME cannot stop the calls, maybe they can, but if they did not send out a message saying “redial any international number you have missed in your phone and win a big prize” then they cannot be held accountable for people who choose to redial those numbers! If your curiosity gets the best of you, why should the company be blamed IF and i say again IF they did not initiate the calls in the first place? Now the company has to take resources, be it people, money , systems whatever, to refund all those persons who decided to call the number. contrary to popular belief, everything is not done by just flicking a switch at this company!
We have bigger fish to fry. We have to be thinking about where we will be working in the next couple months, if we will be able to pay our bills, if we will be able to eat, yet we sit and complain about a company changing its name and the fact they did not stop calls from coming through just because you decided to call it back! Come on people!
And ROK, like everyone else I will have to answer to my creator, but rest be assured i will be answering for ME! I am not perfect, but I do what I am to do and as a result I expect to be paid as per my contract! In the event I think i am being asked to do something against my standards, I WILL LEAVE!!!!!!How many of us can say C&W asked us to do something illegal? The problem is we sit and assume that the “big boys” are doing things just to get a big fat bonus! If they are, just make you you ARE NOT! its simple! They answer for them. the sad thing is many people would do just whatever the “big boys” are doing but its just the opportunity has never been there!!!!!!!!So leave the people to themselves and make sure you do what is right by you! If people profit from it, so WHAT! We benefit from other people’s hard work everyday and we take it for granted! Its because of someone else we have roads instead of having to walk thru bush, but do we say thank you COW? No we sit and bitch about all the money COW makes and the roads aint to your standards! Its a cycle, its call life, it happens!
Disturbed! // December 4, 2008 at 1:55 PM
Oh and when i said “its obvious what C&W is doing” , I was refering to the fact they make millions of dollars in profit and not the “scam”. Just in case someone wants to get all smart with themselves!
ROK // December 4, 2008 at 2:16 PM
Disturbed
Because you are getting the sweets don’t mean you should try to shut up anybody. If people complain it is a legitimate complaint.
As for COW, it is not about the money he can honestly make, but people smell a rat and can’t put their finger on it.
A little insignificant engineer called in on a radio program to complain about how COW shortchanged the government on a part of the ABC highway. So far from thanking COW, people have a right to know how their money is spent. COW is not in it for the thanks… and people should thank themselves for putting up the money to build the road. It was the taxpayers’ money, not anything sent from fairy tale land. COW did not give us anything and if he did not get the money the road would not have been built.
You need to re-think how you do things. Don’t be a simpleton and fall into the trap of the colonial mentality syndrome.
Chris Halsall // December 4, 2008 at 2:47 PM
@Disturbed!: “I do not need to air my name for me to be heard.
No, but it helps to be taken seriously. After all, if you’re not prepared to stand behind what you say, why should we pay any attention?
@D!: “There is one person who made a very good point and that is the one about business people who have miscalls.
That person would have been me. *READ* the above to confirm this…
@D!: “I understand what a scam is, and i understand it is fraud, However, God gave each and every human being the sense of free will, therefore you do as you please and suffer the consequences.
So, from your above, even though *your* company is complicit in fraud, it is the “punters” fault???
@B!: “I am not saying LIME cannot stop the calls, maybe they can… If your curiosity gets the best of you, why should the company be blamed IF and i say again IF they did not initiate the calls in the first place?
Because their network *carried* the call. And, as we’ve determined on this very blog, the call was (with 99% certainty) initiated on their network. And because LIME will profit from these calls (in both directions…) And because we’ve shown it is well within LIME’s abilities to block these calls.
@B!: “I do not know how much it will cost for LIME to reverse the charges, or for them to stop the calls from coming, however, even if it costs 2c, why should the company use its resources to support ignorance?
It’s called Good Will AKA Reputation. (This might be a difficult concept for you to grasp…)
1. LIME made $91 million last year.
2. LIME’s own network is being used in this fraud.
3. (Once again), LIME *CAN* stop this, if they choose.
4. LIME is claiming that they’re being defrauded… But it seems that their own customers are actually the ones who end up paying.
5. The “query” is easy: (in the Geek; SQL): “select * from [CDRs] where [calling or called number] like ‘%088213%’;”.
@D!: Your position is untenable….
Disturbed! // December 4, 2008 at 2:49 PM
I am not dear ROK but I also REFUSE to fall into the TRAP of Constant Depression Because of Crooked Employers! And please explain the “sweets” I am supposed to be getting???Then again you are right, i am getting the sweets, its called breath, knowing whats right from wrong, the ability to choose, freewill and being paid for what work I do!
I am not trying to tell everyone how they should feel, or what they should say, i am saying that sitting and bickering isn’t going to change the world so LOOK AT YOU! You can only change YOU. You can only account for YOU. Why is it that some of us, when we get our own businesses, do the same things that the big corporations did? You go into a small store one day to see one price, and the next day its gone up. Does that make it right because it was done to you when you were working for someone else? Does it make it right becuase now you have your own business and NOW u understand how a business is run? NO IT DOES NOT!
I am trying to emphasize the point of internal reflection as opposed to outward accusation because at the end of the day everyone is human and have their own hiccups.
Look past the details of the COW situation and try to understand what i am saying. He still provided a luxury we all enjoy today! Why then don’t you stop using the roads if he obtained your taxes in some crooked way? Because you still have to pay taxes right? Well its the same damn thing. Whether with LIME or another “crooking” organization, you still expect to be paid for your work so therefore try to be more positive about things and make sure you can account for YOU!!!!!!!!!
Chris Halsall // December 4, 2008 at 2:50 PM
Whoops… s/\@B\!/\@D\!/g
Disturbed! // December 4, 2008 at 3:08 PM
This is useless. I guess some people just love to dwell in misery so have a ball! then we wonder why cancer and other stress related illnesses consume us even though we eat right and exercise regularly! its cuz we forget we are human and like to point fingers instead of accepting that we too do wrong things. In addition, we consume ourselves with things we cannot change instead of looking at the things we can…US! I am certain there are many persons who may have prefered pink grass btu it is what it is, GREEN! I’m not saying you support crookery, but gues what, it has been there before you and it will be there after you! Just make sure you are not involved! I am certain thos LIME employees here who are talking about “goodwill” etc would not draw from their own salaries to give back to the customers. Not your customers you say? Of course they are! they pay your salaries every month!
@Chris, my name isn’t going to make you take anything seriously! because of the same “freewill” I was preaching about, you WILL continue to back your point as I will mine. So stop trying to decifer who you are speaking to and decide how much of your pay pack you will be refunding the LIME customers with out of good will!
Chris Halsall // December 4, 2008 at 3:28 PM
@D!… Argument is healthy.
Prove your point…
…or stand down.
Time to LIME // December 4, 2008 at 4:19 PM
Listen Disturbed. I don’t usually insult people for speaking their mind. But you Madame are a fool. Just above the temps and getting on like you have a company? Yu idiot, and still going long home. You feel your attitude will get you a commitment letter. Talk about double standards? You right! Cause when you were on the board answering calls you use to be cussing like everyone else. But since they put you in the back to not do one shite when de day come you feel you is Ms. Important. Anyhow, that is your business. You would have been a good domestic slave on the plantation but you aint even getting an extra egg so you double IGRUNT. Why shouldn’t consumers speak their mind? And the service provider has just as much responsiblity to protect their customers who may not be aware of certain things. So you my friend, see you in the unemployment line cause people dont usually hire educated fools without a brain of their own! I am sure Donald wont be joining us!!
Idiot // December 4, 2008 at 4:28 PM
@ Disturbed ” I am certain thos LIME employees here who are talking about “goodwill” etc would not draw from their own salaries to give back to the customers. Not your customers you say? Of course they are! they pay your salaries every month!”
LIME HAS 91 MILLION TO SHARE. YU FREAK!! WHEN WE GET SENT HOME WHOSE CUSTOMER’S WILL THEY BE???
Emancipated // December 4, 2008 at 4:45 PM
@ Disturbed!
You have no point. Take pride in who you are yes but not for a company who cares nothing about you!
Why don’t people leave if the company is crooked? You when school @ de stand pipe? People have bills! That is like suggesting leaving this world becuase it is not a nice place to be. That sound just as stupid as your comment about not driving on the roads. read your comments out load and try hard not to laugh!
Tell me Why // December 4, 2008 at 4:57 PM
@ ALL
What are you opinions about the new wireless internet – SIEMENS SE567 WLAN? I have one that always going off-line. The worst thing is this piece of equipment always running hot.My neighbour’s equipment melt and distorted by the excessive heat. We need to voice our displeasure with this inferior equipment, no wonder these people nett $91 million.
David // December 4, 2008 at 5:05 PM
@TMW
You don’t have to buy a wireless modem from LIME.
Tell me Why // December 4, 2008 at 5:31 PM
You don’t have to buy a wireless modem from LIME.
……………………………………………………….
I did not buy the modem from them, it was an updated model. I am of the opinion that this replacement is a cheap 3rd world reject.
DISTURBIA 2 // December 4, 2008 at 10:27 PM
@ Disturbed….Chantelle is that you my friend, the niece of the personal assistant to VP of HR. Are you one of the 2 to be left in HR????????????????????????????
PISSED OFF // December 4, 2008 at 10:41 PM
@Disturbed I would be defending my company as well if I came from working Directories to an Admin job and @ present not knowing what your job title is unless you count in sending out birthday greetings. Please get a grip. The company you holding so close to your heart is bullshitting it’s employees and it’s customers or have you not seen that. YOU STILL ON DE LIST. NO FRIGGIN COMMITMENT LETTER FOR YOU CHANTELLE!!!!!
YES FELLOW BLOGGERS SHE HAS A NAME!!!!!!!!
FASHION POLICE // December 4, 2008 at 10:46 PM
What I can advise you to do is to let LIME give you some new uniforms cause it hurts me to see you walking bout everyday wid dem tight ass skirts and you leg rubbing nuff to burn down de contact centre b4 we get we money.
Time to Lime // December 5, 2008 at 8:27 AM
That is just wrong fashion police. You did not have to go there ! Cudear, lets change the subjuect, talk about modems and LIME please…..I shame!
CALLING OUT C ON DE SHITE SHE TALKING // December 5, 2008 at 8:34 AM
@ DISTURBED!!!! C (she “works” in de Contact Centre) you really should be ashamed of yourself. You really talking like you went school @ Combermere fuh trute. PISSED OFF said all I wanted to say. All de ass you did was answer directory enquiry calls & dem use to got you good. Every damn minute you complaining bout de same customers & frustrated @ de same C&W or LIME, (whatever de dogs calling demselves) when you has to answer calls. We all know de company underhanded. I was one dem rob. I work 6 days & NEVER get time & 1/2 / overtime. I work nights & NEVER get night differential. I work shift & NEVER get rota. So when you get in here & talk your c==t I know dat all you trying to do is suck up & get a permanant position in de ppl new organisation. Right now you are working in a position that has no job description. What de f==k do you do for de ppl money when de day come?????? NOTHING!!!!! So you will have no problem defending the company that pays you do NOT one fuck. We dont mind a company doing what it has to do. What we are angry about is the manner in which they are doing it.
Sad Bajan // December 5, 2008 at 9:46 AM
I am a little late to the discussion but let me make my two cents worth even if it is worth a lot less.
I trust nothing which comes out of the mouth of anyone who are associated with Lime or whatever name they have chosen. I firmly believe they are scam artist has always been and will always be. I would not be surprise if first this scam is bogus and second if someone directly related to Lime is responsible for creating it. Notice they have not mentioned (unless I missed it) anywhere, where persons money would be refunded in the off chance that you were a victim of this so-called scam.
However, I don’t feel for silly Bajans who after being robbed by them for so many years and after having a choice still chose to throw good money after bad.
Disturbed! // December 5, 2008 at 10:05 AM
@Calling Out C On De Shite She Talking- It is quite sad when persons can get so violent for no reason. it is also quite obvious you have something against poor C. Wonder what she ever did you. Must ask Ed or Ricky who this young lady is so someone can take her under their wing! Better yet Donovan knows all our old comrades so will definitely link him!
@ALL- i am figuring that all if not most of you here work with poor C or at least know her through association.Its a pity to tell the truth because you are correct. if she works in the centre everyone knows that she has BEEN SERVED as well tsk tsk…but other out here have too. My department is sitting on eggs waiting to hear who is going to be going, and YES we are going to get touched as well because THE ENTIRE company will regardless of age, sex, association or salary.We have all been given our walking papers indefinitely, but rest be assured we will all get them. Fortunately, she seems to have enough common sense somehow to keep her head above water UP AND ON!!!!!(Obviously a Combermerian!)
Needless to say I will search for her and let her know not to eat anything from her fellowmen because it is quite obvious that bitterness has consumed the whole lot of you lol. Sorry to see that you have tried to defame the young lady, especially since i would hate to believe she is as endowed as I am in certain places ;), and if we are talking Contact Centre, I could probably be your father But now that I see who is talking I expect no better.
Please see ROK ” I can see that you are a man of standards; just don’t be a fool for anybody else or in you efforts, hold up the wicked, otherwise you should ask yourself what you are doing??? ” I so thought you guys figured out who it is by now lol.
Unfortunately I can’t speak to what the young lady does or does not do but I am sure her appraisal will speak for itself if your department does them.I wont speak to the “little girl issues” since it is personal attacks on the young lady who, unfortunately, isn’t here to defend herself, so when you people get back to the mature stage on talking about issues link a brother. I suspect most of you are women too (at least I would hope so), but Chris, I do agree arguement is good for the soul.
In addition, it is utterly sad that you people attck others but bitterness seems to RULE! Poor Don is just doing his job as others do, yet you want his head on a platter. When will you young people grow to hell up!!!ALL OF US will be out there looking for a job soon, and yes, i too gave some of my best years to this company, almost eleven, but I can tell you one thing, i ain’t do nothing wrong, and I aint trying to be bitter with nobody. you guys need to educate yourselves with what is happening out there in the world of work and realize its not only LIME, this shit happens everyday! Hopefully, when you guys leave, you will find something to occupy your minds that is constructive instead of attacking people who make something of themselves in life.
CALLING OUT CHANTEL // December 5, 2008 at 10:07 AM
chantel jones is DISTURBED
CALLING OUT C "DISTURBED" // December 5, 2008 at 10:27 AM
DISTURBED CAN U NOT UNDERSTAND THAT WE ARE NOT VEX WID DE COMPANY FOR HANDLING THEIR BUSINESS???? WE ARE VEX ABOUT THE WAY THEY HAVE DONE IT!!!!!!!!!!!! WE ARE WELL AWARE OF THE ECONOMIC PROBLEM THROUGHOUT THE WORLD. HOWEVER, WE ARE HUMAN BEINGS DAT DON’T WANT 2 BE LIED TO & ROBBED!!!! SO U HAVE DEFINATELY PROVED THAT AGE DOES NOT BEGET WISDOM!!!! WE CALLED OUT C CAUSE SHE TALKS DE SAME C==T U TALKING!!!!! ALL I WANT IS 2 BE TREATED LIKE A HUMAN BEING NOT A EX-SLAVE!!!!! U DO REMEMBER THEY WERE FREED & PAID TO DO A JOB ALSO. THERE ARE THINGS CALLED HUMAN RIGHTS & DE RIGHT TO BE TREATED FAIRLY & WITH RESPECT IS ONE OF DEM. YOU HAVE A GOOD DAY NOW.
CALLING OUT C "DISTURBED" // December 5, 2008 at 10:28 AM
I WORK @ LIME & DISTURBED WORKS IN MY DEPT
FASHION POLICE // December 5, 2008 at 11:11 AM
Let me apologise to C, ur right let’s not go down that road. My humblest apologies. Let’s go to the issue @ hand, let’s give her a trophy for answering dq in the shortest call time (after doing it for 4yrs u should know all de #s without having 2 search). Next let me applaud you for going down to de wire wid your beloved LIME. Last but not least for trying to fake who you are and pretending you’re someone else, but a little point to you. There were a total of 5 Combermerians in the centre. Two of the males took packages, so that leaves 3 C,M and J(sup). It would then mean that it has to be 1 out of 3. Can’t really see the other 2 defending LIME. hmmmmmm. So if u don’t work in RCC don’t pretend that you know what goes on in there, don’t act like you have a clue because you don’t. We were never a part of C&W and it has been proven we are no longer wanted in LIME. They took the agents’ ideas and used them to train the Lucians & whoever else getting jobs. So should we feel ok about the way they treated us? NO. When staff in the RCC worked their asses off they Dodd & Donald were plotting to kick our A***S OUT THE DOOR. Management stated clearly redeployment was a means of giving the agents hope when there was none. So proud ‘Combermerian’stand tall defend the company that takes bread from the mouths of blacks. Really sick and tired of wunna that feel wunna went school somewhere and others didn’t. Ppl in de center went from Harrison’s to Grantley Adams and could still read a bill balance.
Disturbed! // December 5, 2008 at 11:41 AM
@ Fashion Police- the point on Combermere was to indicate why the level of dedication so get off it!I refuse to have that conversation with you because it is quite irrelevant to the topic at hand.
Back to the issue- You don’t have to work in the RCC to know what is going on there. That is the problem, you guys always thought no one cared and that you were treated the worst. I can bring technicians to talk about their plight, credit management, even IT! I have people in my department that have worked here for years much more than myself and they have seen transformation galore! That centre is what? 8 years? 9 years? You guys haven’t began to see anything as yet!
I too had to call the centre on many occassions to get assistance with my ADSL and i will admit one thing, the agents had the knowledge! I am not supporting black people getting the bread taken from them, if you were reading, you would see that I also indicated I too would be on the breadline even though I have’nt gooten official notice as yet. This mess is not just about the RCC its also about all of us out there who will soon be going home.
My emphasis on this whole situation is that people think positively about what they will do going forward. think about themselves as individual and stop harping on the obvious. A guy in my department is making himself sick over this transformation and even though that is expected, I spend everyday talking to him to calm him down so he wouldn’t kill himself. I want you people to understand this is the end of a job, not the end of the world. And in my specialty area it will be much more difficult for me to get a job, probably have to leave the island to find something decent!
It pains me to know that now I cannot walk accross the yard and ask a favor in the centre, instead i have to HOPE who answers me in St. Lucia knows what the hell they are doing and help me.But what does fretting do? We are all leaving, we are all going home and Dodd and whoever else in the UK will be gettign richer while we look for new jobs. whatever will be will be!All i’m saying, you go to another organization, prepare for the same mess or even worst!
Anonymous // December 5, 2008 at 11:42 AM
Entering late in the discussion. LIME, C&W BARTEL. All they did was to change their name. They didn’t change the fact that after 7days the customer disconnected but when they pay the bill cannot be reconnected. They have not changed that your service is out for days and when it is finally fixed you cannot get back your money. They have not changed that they give you inferior products and still bill you every month for a service noone can use. So come up wid every name possible, but at the same time offer TOP SERVICE.
Disturbed! // December 5, 2008 at 11:45 AM
Oh and I’m off to a meeting so you guys enjoy without me. Don’t think I will visit here again either. conversation is getting monotonous and attitudes are flying for all the wrong reasons.
Over and Out.
Anonymous // December 5, 2008 at 12:13 PM
@Disturbed..And in my specialty area it will be much more difficult for me to get a job, probably have to leave the island to find something decent!
This is your quote…How is it you have a specialty area and is one of the lowest paid in LIME. Hope all goes well @ your meeting lowest pd in specialty area.
Chris Halsall // December 5, 2008 at 12:32 PM
@Disturbed!: “Don’t think I will visit here again either. conversation is getting monotonous and attitudes are flying for all the wrong reasons.
To quote Monty Python: “Run away… Run away…
This has been an amusing distraction from the fundamental issue at hand…
Can anyone report that you’ve recently received one of these dropped calls?
Or have we killed this scam? (Without, I might point out, any help from the provider?)
Can anyone report that they did call the number? If so, have you taken this up with the provider and the FTC?
And I must thank Disturbed!, for once again bringing this article to the top of the “Popular Articles” list. Perhaps (being Machiavellian) that was their intent…
Chantelle L Jones // December 5, 2008 at 4:31 PM
Woweee only today i had a conversation with a colleague about the attitudes, mentality and nasty ways of some people in my department. little did i know they were at it again! Thanks to Chaia for drawing this blog to my attention.So where do i start…
@Calling Out Chantel Jones…get my name right when you want to talk it!
@Disturbed you are a very very bold individual and I hope someday to have the guts you do to “go against the norm”. Actually that is what got me my bad name as it so seems. I came to this company 5 years ago, didn’t know a soul, and I sat and did what was requested of me…that was a problem.
I answered the skillsets I was asked to answer to keep service levels a certain way…that too was a problem.
I applied for a job within the centre that EACH AND EVERY employee had the chance to apply for and i got it…so that, needless to say was a problem too.
I met my objectives, came to work each day and early at that…and that was a SERIOUS issue! So you see Disturbed, i created my own demise by having good work ethics, being dedicated like yourself and not mixing with some of the unproductive idividuals in the department.
I do have a few friends in the department, but I keep a very limited number of persons close to me so that was an issue too. I never had my business to spread so that too was an issue.
Now I refuse to address specifically those who have decided to TRY to defame my name, because i have ALWAYS been a bigger person and WILL CONTINUE to rise despite the cowardly comments. Funny enough I can tell exactly who most of these persons are male and female but strangely enough, noone has EVER had the GUTS to come to my face and tell me what problem they have with me.
Why? Maybe because nothing is ever legitimate. Sad but true. So when you guys have the guts to step out and be men and women and tell me to my face what you think about me, don’t try to be the “big bad wolves” of this blog!
@Disturbed, I too have been given my walking papers like all these jokers here, and to be honest it is not fair to say just let it go becuase until reality hits home and you experience these things for yourselves, you can’t know how people feel. everyone is different and will react to things differently. i for one do not wake up each morning to be upset, but something may happen that gets me to that level. so where i understand you emphasize a positive attitude, be careful with how forceful you are because you can be telling me that I should not feel bad that the company I worked for just made millions in profit but is still sending me home…it can’t work. In addition, when people thrive on bitterness, there is very little you can do to change their minds or their attitude.
I am glad to see that I am so “loved” and that people took their time and effort to try to make bad for me, but who Jah bless no man shall curse so BRING IT ON and i will continue to say i am loved by many , hated by a few and confronted by NONE !!!!!!!!!!
@Chris, a customer called today saying they got called again from the number so if something has been done, by the company or otherwise, it is still affecting some customers.
Goodbye and God Bless!!!
J // December 5, 2008 at 6:41 PM
Disturbed wrote “All i’m saying, you go to another organization, prepare for the same mess or even worst!”
Maybe not.
It is possible that C&W/LIME is a worse than average service provided and employer.
There are good places to work out there. I hope that you find one.
But a little piece of advice.
Never, never, hold your customers in contempt.
We are not as stupid as you believe.
Madman // December 6, 2008 at 12:04 PM
@ All
Please do not read the this blog and assume that all workers in the Contact Centre act the same way. Some of us can actually argue a point without specifically putting down anyone. I believe the persons here are very argry at this point and they are directing their anger @ the wrong person.
@ Chantelle, people do not dislike you because you have good work ethic, people sometimes dislike your attitude which sometimes seems similar to that of mgt.
@ Disturbed
Your comments confuse me. In your 1st post you seemed to want to suggest that customers are some how foolish. LIME has hundreds of subscribers each and every one of them should be treated with respect and be valued as important. That is the problem with LIME and the attitudes of many of the workers there who do not have to speak to customers on a daily basis.Lime on one hand tell us the customer is King while on the other hand they continue to roll out and agressively promote inferior products where demand exceeds supply and try to cut cost by distributing poor quality phones, modems and other types equipment just so that executives and shareholders can enjoy the profits. Why since the upgrading of or DSL systems recently has the quality of service to customers dropped drastically? New modems distributed and yet more complaints. Something is just not adding up.
E.G: They rolled out netspeak knowing that the speeds they intially provided could not handle the product and customers would not get proper service.
They aggressivly promote balckberry without providing adequate customer service support. When you call in LIME with a blackberry issue there is hardly anyone there to help you. They distributed zhone modems after the technicians advised them that they were inferior and they overheat and continued to provide them to the majority of customers until it became a legal issue and they now are changing them…to another brand of inferior modem lol.
I too glad I leffing dis place.
To fight against a company such as this for the service that you deserve the customers should use their voice, the only voice the company listens to…Money TALKS. Instead of begging for credits do not pay the bill,protest by speaking collectively about the poor service, that is the only way they listen. Your letters just get tossed in the trash.
NB: Barbadian customers bring the most money to C&W but we are treated the worst. Try to figure out why! The customers in other territories act while we just talk!
JC // December 6, 2008 at 12:45 PM
Madman I LOVE YOU you kept it real orm the time you opened your mouth!
Bajans DANGEROUS!
Lime or Limp should be taught a lesson, bajans are something else. People need to get with it even me!
JC // December 6, 2008 at 12:53 PM
Disturbed! // December 4, 2008 at 1:52 pm
————————————————–
That comment that you made was for real?
How heaven get into this conversation when poor people cant eat?
You fro real!
stupse!!!!
Madman // December 6, 2008 at 3:55 PM
@ JC…I hope that customers out there use this re-branding of C&W as an opportunity to force the company to change. These executives have it in their head that they can exploit the consumers and still reap the profits as in the days of the monopoly. These people know they have to offer upgraded technology…which costs money (e.g 3G mobile services , ect…) in order to remain competitive. Therefore to maintain their profit they must drastically cut costs (e.g send home workers) They will spend the necessary funds to offer these new services with out spending what they need to spend to improve the poor service already provided. They will trap you into spending more with them while providing less. When the profits start to decrese, as they will because of the poor service and increased competition, these big execs will bail, with their hugh bonuses in tact leaving a company which has gone through a complete demerger and is now ready for sale. There is now LIME caribbean, C&W international, eventually when business is no longer lining their pockets with gold, they will sell LIME Caribbean to a competitor, like AT&T did for digicel, thats how the story goes. These people are not interested in making it better for customers unless they are forced to do so. We have to strike now, while the iron is hot to get the service we pay for and deserve! Not only for companies like LIME but all other companies in Barbados who are taking us for a ride!