If kids come to us [educators/teachers] from strong, healthy functioning families, it makes our job easier. If they do not come to us from strong, healthy, functioning families, it makes our job more important.
Barbara Colorose
Minister of Education Ronald Jones - Image Source Nation News
The recent gaffe by Minister of Education Ronald Jones when he publicly chastised the actions of some school principals has rightly attracted the wrath of Barbadians. His public condemnation of one of the key stakeholders in the educational system cannot be excused. Education is one of the issues where a national consensus is mandatory; the desire by some to politicize this matter must stop. The education of our PEOPLE post Independence has been the vehicle that Barbados has used to overcome many of the challenges that confront nations, especially the developing ones. Its importance can be seen annually by the large slice of the budget which is allocated.
We have no doubt that Minister Jones is sincere in his desire to improve his ministry. He was a teacher and we assume must be acquainted with the challenges facing the educational system. However, arising from the current impasse it is difficult to fathom how Minister Ronald Jones can now commander the support and engender the confidence required from all the stakeholders in the education fraternity.
We believe he should do the honourable thing and resign.
Having stated the above we have to remind the BU family that the challenges facing our educational system did not begin on January 16, 2008. The hunger by other key players in the system to use the public forum to ventilate on sensitive issues is equally wrong and does nothing to build a team approach to problem solving.
What is so difficult for our educators to understand that we are at a critical juncture in the country’s socio-economic development, and education will have to play a key role to support the model society we want to continue building?
What is so difficult for our educators to understand that this is an issue that requires a consensus approach by the Ministry of Education, principals, teachers, parents and others to agree to a roll-out strategy to make our education system relevant?
If all the players were singing from the same hymn sheet then Minister Jones would have appreciated that saying what he did in the forum that he did was inappropriate. His gaffe followed that of the Chief Education Officer Dr. Wendy Griffith-Watson a few months ago when she slighted two of our schools on national radio, it generated a similar furore.
Our children who our educators are committed to serve are being sorely letdown. As long as the public bickering between the Ministry of Education and the other stakeholders continue; the impact on our educational system will be negative at a time when leadership is required in all areas of society. The children represent the future of a country; many have started to question the relevance of the current education system. Our children who have to suffer heavy criticism from society deserve better from our leaders in education.
The subject of education is dear to the hearts of Barbadians, we often boast of our 98+ literacy rate. Instead of the bickering we are hearing from the players in the education sector, we would prefer to hear of the solutions to address the lack of infrastructure to teach reading in many of our schools, how about the inefficiency of the criterion test which is given to Infants B pupils and the results are often not known until they reach Class 2, bear in mind that the criterion test is used to stream students. What about the large number of students who don’t PASS ONE CXC?
Barbadians seem fixated on the success of the block of students located at the pinnacle of the pyramid. A major disappointment has been the unwillingness of our educational system to prepare students for the changing world. The comfort level we still have to produce lawyers, accountants, sociologists and not enough engineers (scientists) and individuals who are prepared to be entrepreneurs. The vision and strategy for education must change to target the thousands of children who are being deposited annually by the current system with no skills.
Minister Jones if he is able to survive the current shouts for his head or his successor, the task to build a consensus approach in the important sector of education must become a priority. A nation of ignorant and illiterate people cannot be a good thing.
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118 responses so far ↓
Tell me Why // December 4, 2008 at 9:54 PM
I am strongly against the unprofessional stance displayed by the CEO of education. How on earth can principals gain the respect from students when Minister Jones such a forum to cry them down and build up momentum to due to the clapping response from the students who now feel that the short skirts can be worn without being policed.
Tell me Why // December 4, 2008 at 10:09 PM
(when Minister Jones used such a forum)
I am of the opinion that Minister seems not to understand the usage of diplomacy. Remember when he cried down parents stating they love too much complaining. Education is crucial and we need someone who is firm and not crude. He even crossed the Rubicon and state that principal should be fired.
I must say that students from every school really look like ladies in their uniforms…..now a stupid display of political arrogance might jeopardised all the work put in by principals. I give him a failing grade.
Amara // December 5, 2008 at 12:11 AM
Mr. Jones so often speaks before he thinks…and that is a major flaw of his. The recent public statements he made not only discredits the power of the principals but now leaves the children to have little or no respect for authority. His comments were made in the presence of the girls of the Springer Memorial School and they so gleefully responded with a thunderous applause (what does that speak to their future respect for their teachers and principal?)
His stupid display of arrogance, clear disregard and authoritative bull-shit has left little or no room for a good rapport with the pricipals who he expects to work in cohesion with him.
Sometimes it is people like Mr. Jones
(who mind you was a teacher himself but sadly to say was not that priveleged to even reach a Senior Teacher post) might need to one day take a walk in a principal’s shoes and see just what they face with some of these unruly young people that form part of the current generation of students on this island.
Mr. Jones is a mere reflection of the party to which he represents… a bunch of clueless assholes who thrive only on “change” at all costs without looking to address the real issues and who cannont think without seeing the YELLOW drowning what the RED has established!
Carson C. Cadogan // December 5, 2008 at 12:36 AM
I like Jonesie. He calls a spade a spade. I support him on this issue.
Can anyone tell me if Matthew Farley is the Chief School Principal in Barbados? Does the other School Principals have to do what he says?
Who voted Matthew Farley into office?
Sargeant // December 5, 2008 at 1:20 AM
I don’t always agree with the Minister e.g. I think that he should step down as President of the BFA but according to the report which I read the Minister said that there are a number of Principals who send children home everyday for reasons unrelated to discipline. Question…. is this true? If so, there must be some bloggers who can provide a list of reasons why some children are being sent home. If the Minister is not factual then he deserves all the criticism directed at him. It seems to me that some of these Principals think that they are running mini fiefdoms, witness the recent contretemps between one Principal and the teachers at his school.
Mr. Jones does not seem to be “the go along to get along” type of individual and this rubs some people the wrong way so I’m not surprised at the vitriol directed his way. Mr. Jones was even criticized for daring to suggest to some parents that they shouldn’t consider their children to be failures if they did get into HC or QC.
Barbados has a lot of “sacred cows” criticise them at your peril.
Anonymous // December 5, 2008 at 3:07 AM
Why do people take this joker seriously?
That’s what you get when you are on a populist agenda. One month you are trying to be popular with the teachers, the next month with the students, the next month with the parents.
Sick and tired of dese _unts who feel that all of a sudden they got the right to speak down to the people of this country.
The tone in which these guys are speaking is sickening!
me // December 5, 2008 at 5:18 AM
I think he was completely wrong to criticise the principals in front of the students. Even if he held the view that children should not be sent home that view should have been expressed in a forum with the principals where they could respond. Instead he has made an already difficult job harder.
Anyone who has had the responsibility of taking care farther less teaching other peoples children in this day and age knows that it is very difficult to achieve discipline.
Why this sudden concern about what could happen with children if they are sent home. That is a circular and stupid argument.
If the head is sending home a girl because she keeps wearing her skirt short and her bubbies out why isnt the parent concerned about her being troubled on her way to and from school period! Why dont they insist that she follow the rules.
I think alot of these issues fall under social work…not teaching and not education.
I think people like Robald Jones and those looking for excuses should look to coming up with ways to raise money so that we can benefit from a better social work department where the heads can refer difficult students/family issues.
Anonymous // December 5, 2008 at 5:41 AM
I think Ronald Jones gotta axe to grind. As a teacher he was never promoted.
He got a problem with the elite school system because he’s not a product of it.
All of a sudden, from the morning of Jan 16 he got all the answers?
Help // December 5, 2008 at 6:33 AM
Well that is Mr. Jones but I blame the previous administration because they are the source of all the ills in the country.
I think we have to tell Minister Jones that the election is over and it is time to govern and be diplomatic.
Inkwell // December 5, 2008 at 7:21 AM
Mr Jones’ harsh criticism of headteachers in his address to the Springer Memorial School has done, in my view, irreparable damage to any prospect of cohesion in the management of secondary level education. He has surely destroyed any hope of detente or cooperation between himself and the principals and has made their already difficult task of maintaining discipline among their students nigh impossible.
Even if principals have been breaking the “rules” by sending home students for reasons other than class disruption, surely the solution was not public chastisement in the worst possible forum. His demonstrations of arrogance, insensitivity and poor judgment disqualify him from the directorship of education policy in Barbados and he should be removed. An apology to the principals cannot undo the damage done and only by sending the signal to the students that it is standing with the principals can the Government do anything to ameliorate what is now an untenable impasse.
Mr Jones has shown himself to be unfit to be the Minister of Education. What message does it send to students, visitors to our country and the world at large when the Minister of Education cannot even speak the English language properly. His constant mispronunciation of “thousand” and indeed every word which contains “th” disqualifies him from the post. I listened in horror on one recent occasion on national radio when he mispronunced in the most elementary way the word “chasm” twice in one sentence.
Even in his recent railing against the principals, he wanted to know how they would respond if a student was sent home and some accident befell him or her between the hours of “nine and tree”. The man is an embarrassment to Barbados and its educational system.
Jeanette Layne-Clarke gave him some gentle ribbing in a recent column in the Nation, but he has not taken or cannot take the hint. There is only one satisfactory solution.
David // December 5, 2008 at 7:23 AM
Unfortunately the situation has gone past whether Jones is correct or not. In Barbados we don’t have a history of our Minister resigning even though it is a tried practice in the Westminster Model we try to follow. As stated there is a crisis of confidence in the education sector.
On a related line we never agreed with Jones wearing the heavy responsibility of President BFA. Even more strange is the fact that he received blessings from the PM on his decision.
The Devil // December 5, 2008 at 7:42 AM
“sigh”
This unseemly public spat between Minister Jones and Principal Farley indicates (at least to me) that neither of them have the power to effect positive change in Barbadian schools.
Mr Farley along with other principals believes that adherence to a dress code (and other rules) will foster a more achievement oriented school. May I ever-so-gently suggest that the obverse may be a more effective belief.
J // December 5, 2008 at 8:28 AM
Help wrote ” I blame the previous administration because they are the source of all the ills in the country.”
Do you really believe this?
If you you need more help than is possible in this world or the next.
J // December 5, 2008 at 8:31 AM
The Devil wrote “Mr Farley along with other principals believes that adherence to a dress code (and other rules) will foster a more achievement oriented school. May I ever-so-gently suggest that the obverse may be a more effective belief”
I’m with the devil on this one.
David // December 5, 2008 at 8:34 AM
The other point which we can discuss is the unfettered access which Mathew Farley has to the airwaves given his part time job at VOB radio. Ordinarily this would not be an issue to discuss but his preparedness to be outspoken, which is not a bad thing now makes it an issue.
To what extent has his access to the airwaves position him as an opinion shaper. It is interesting that the very criticism being leveled at Minister Jones some may say that Farley is guilty of the same given how he orchestrated his response.
permres // December 5, 2008 at 8:49 AM
I did not hear the full speech of Minister R. Jones. I will comment on only what I read here. To begin, I rarely hear a description of the role of a head teacher. I trained in 1966, and throughout my career it has always been likened to that of the captain of a ship at sea. He/she has to negotiate the pushes and pulls of the sea of education, sometimes the storms. The forces are numerous. Students, parents, teachers, teacher unions, the government’s Ministry, inspectorate/advisors, social services, research findings from academia, curriculum changes/innovations – I guess there are others. A good captain navigates it all and comes through safely and with respect. They do not attempt to turn the tide, or fight the storm. They weather the storm. Metaphors abound here.
To the main point of contention here as I identify it from the posts so far, it is the issue of sending some children home because they are inappropriately dressed. I would consider this a matter of indiscipline. So the matter is the disagreeable behaviour of some students, which has already been passed for them to be sent home.
Sending home under any circumstances is unacceptable, we may as well re-introduce walking the plank! Staff and physical areas in the school have to be provided, until parents or guadians can be contacted and the matter dealt with through a meeting of all concerned. Easy really, sailing a ship is not too difficult, otherwise we would be having far more ship-wrecks and mutinies on the high seas than we do have.
The Scout // December 5, 2008 at 9:09 AM
This has become a very dark cloud over Min. Jones and the ruling government. This is the institution that produces our future leaders, it’s also the institytion that produces many dropouts and rogues in our society today. It makes it therefore imperative that people like Min Jones should attend Business seminars to learn the proper method to deal with this and other matters that will arise. Min Jones, as a teacher, was a bit arrogant,while in opposition, he became more arrogant and tended to talk down to the members and players in the BFA. Now as a minister, it is only obvious without the necessary trainiung that he would increase his arrogant and his ability to talk down to others.
The Scout // December 5, 2008 at 9:18 AM
Secondly, one must remember that as President of the BUT, Min Jones had a number of “run-ins” with principals. He was just as ordinary teacher, now with the “big whip” in his hand, he sees it as his turn to call the shots. This shows a great level of immaturity, he must understand that he is in a very responsible situation and even though he has a point blasting principals in public to look like the “big Boss” is silly. I am not calling for his resignation, even though I think the job should be given to Min Todd, but I think as a pricipled person, he should meet with the principals and resolve the matter and then make a joint statement to clarify the matter. This should be done A.S.A.P.before the matter gets out of hand. Don’t forget we have irresponsible parents and children in society to deal with.
mad man // December 5, 2008 at 9:48 AM
Mr. Jones is correct, I finish school at Lodge in 1995 an I could relate to you the many horror stories visited upon students by past principles like Nickles (Noddy), Clarrie Layne, Desmond Browne and Ezra Barker. Nickles was the most brutle as he would beat students with anthing he gets his hands on, like an umbrella, bunch of keys or a hard slap to the face. As for Mary Redman, the union rep, she once told a student `come here fool’, stundent refused and was sent to be flogged. As a young parent, I would like to know that when my child reaches school age that she would be well taken care of. Keep defending the students Mr. Jones, because teachers got their unions………
The Scout // December 5, 2008 at 9:56 AM
mad man
Whether Min Jones is right in his opinion, the forum was totally out of place. Two wrongs don’t make a right.
As the Minister, he needs to be more diplomatic about what he says and when he says it but that was his stye while President of BUT but he is now Min of Education and he needs to conduct himself in a more matured, professional manner. He need to be train in business protocol.
David // December 5, 2008 at 9:59 AM
@permres
We big to differ with your analysis. The issue at this stage is not about sending home children, it is about the relationship between key stakeholders in the education sector to come together and chart a path for educating our nation’s PEOPLE in the best way possible.
Over the years we have always had a tug a war relationship between principals and the ministry, since the revised act we sense the relationship has gone into the toilet.
The analogy of two parents having an argument in the presence of their children seems appropriate.
Yardbroom // December 5, 2008 at 10:09 AM
I did not hear the speech of Minister Jones, therefore my comment is general in nature, but underpinned with some experience of the Education System.
It is unwise to upbraid senior staff – even general staff – in the presence of students it undermines authority, or to give the impression even unwittingly that Principals or Head Teachers are not doing as the Ministry expects.
A letter under “confidential cover” to Heads is more appropriate, in an open forum the students could be told certain concerns have been expressed and the Ministry is addressing them.
The education of our children or more mature students; is too important an issue for megaphone directives. A considered reflective approach is needed. Perhaps a quiet word in the ear of the Minister by someone with the authority to do so should suffice. If that fails to achieve a satisfactory outcome then the ultimate sanction is required, because it would be evident the transition to a specific Ministerial office is not within his compass.
BAFBFP // December 5, 2008 at 10:37 AM
If your handle in any way describes you then to tell the truth, as a former student myself, I wid Nickles, le’ mah tell ya (sorry… fah real den). In any even there are rules that govern how heads carry out corporal punishment.
permres // December 5, 2008 at 10:53 AM
Reading the reports in the Nation today, following a press conference with Mr Jones last Wednesday, it seems I was not far off the mark with my first post here. There is some suggestion that children are not being truthful with their parents, saying they have been sent home, when they are probably just bunking off.
Mr Jones says all schools should have in place a development plan. This has been made law in the UK with their National Curriculum. Principals John Mascoll and Cobin Hinds say children should never be sent home without first contacting parents or guardians. A room and staff are provided at the schools until this has been done.
Everything which has been reported in today’s Nation which has been uttered recently by Mr Jones makes sense to me. His public delivery might have been a little over the top! Keep on, Mr Jones, keep sending those waves in and get the captains to steer their ships to safety!
Sargeant // December 5, 2008 at 10:55 AM
Yardbroom
It is unwise to upbraid senior staff – even general staff – in the presence of students it undermines authority, or to give the impression even unwittingly that Principals or Head Teachers are not doing as the Ministry expects
*************************************
Point well taken. If memory serves this wasn’t the first time that the Minister spoke about his distaste regarding the practice of children being sent home from school for reasons unrelated to discipline. Maybe he tried to engage the Principals through the resources of the Ministry and felt that his directives were not being adhered to… hence his public stance.
I agree with David on his take with Farley’s unfettered access to the media both broadcast and print. The man is a Principal/social commentator/historian/politician etc. and is free to voice his opinion on anyone who can read or is within earshot of a radio. This may or may not be a good thing and I will leave it to others to decide but if his views on some aspects of education differs from the Minister and he goes public with them how should the Minister respond?
Negroman // December 5, 2008 at 10:58 AM
The Scout
I support your positions on many issues however on the issue of Minister Jones statement I will beg to differ.
I support Minister Jones position on the abuse of power by some school principals.School principals should not be sending home school children for little infractions of school rules.I believe that many persons did not understand the point Minister Jones was trying to make.We all believe in law & order and the upkeep of it.We want our children to be discipline and respectful.The school principals are punishing school children because of the breaking of some school laws yet those same principals are breaking the guidelines set down by the Ministry of Education on how to handle suspension of students..As outlined by the Minister a school principal only has the authority to suspend a student for 10 school days and after that the Board of Management of the school only has the authority to suspend the student for another 10 days,but some principals are suspending children for longer periods than the specify periods set out by the Ministry of Education.You cannot be enforcing the law & breaking it at the same time.That is the conflicting,confusing signals that we adults continue to send to our children.We have policemen in Barbados who are swear to uphold the law abusing the authority entrusted in them by beating & brutalising people children & at the same time want the same people to uphold the law.
We must stop being so hyprocritical and setting double standards.
I support Minister Ronald Jones position 100 % and Minister Jones you do not have to apologise to a boy.You are right.The abuse by principas like Matthew Farley must stop.We elected you & your government to set a new direction in this country and you all must carry out that mandate.
Fair Play // December 5, 2008 at 11:05 AM
Mr. Jones is wrong to speak so aggressively about principals in front of a student body. The students were thrilled when they recognized that here was a person with responsibility for education scolding the persons that scold them for reasons which they don’t perceive to be wrong such as wearing short skirts, coming school late, fancy hair styles, nail polish, wearing brand name soft shoes, pants falling off, cursing teachers, insulting teachers, pelting at teachers, gambling, using drugs, having sex at school only to name a few. Teaching is going to be an endangered species shortly. Do you see how upset parents are when they children have to be at home? They know the trouble they get into but teachers see that trouble every day. Every forty minutes they are exposed to thirty different individuals from different environment which different behaviours. It is a challenge where few persons want to be involved with. Let the ministry keep running them away.
M // December 5, 2008 at 11:22 AM
There is a time and place for everything and obviously Minister Jones in an effort to show who is in charge chose the wrong time and place to flex his arrogant muscles.
Matthew Farley is the only principal on record who sends students home for those things and if Jones has a problem with how Farley does business at the Garrison he should take it up with him and the union.
Mr Jones needs to cut some of his arrogance and work with the other stakeholders in his ministry
David // December 5, 2008 at 11:33 AM
We read in today’s press that Minister Jones has promised that every school will have to present a strategic plan. Does anyone know if a strategic plan has been enunciated by the ministry? We would imagine that this must be the case since strategic plans by individual schools would have to roll-up to an overall plan.
The other concern we have is the long muted continuous assessment to have been introduced to the service. Has it been rolled out/will it be rolled out?
The final concern has to do with the inability of the government so far to provide the necessary support for the teachers to diagnose dyslexic pupils. We received a note from a concern patient who wants the ministry to bring this matter under the umbrella of the ministry. Currently teachers/parents have to pay the Caribbean Dyslexic Centre out of their own pockets to help children suffering from D. It appears to be a significant problem and may explain why many children are not able to read in our schools. the scary part is whether many of the teachers feel competent to identify the problem of D.
me // December 5, 2008 at 11:35 AM
oh please…the Min was flat wrong.
Mr Farley does not send home childern willy nilly…
How many of you have dealt with these parents and their children?
Do the schools ahve the facilities to hnadle so many bad behaved children?
Are You saying that the rules should be abolished?
If so are you prepared to handle the consequences?
Do we have tha facilities to manage these children in the schools . If we dont is that the heads fault or the ministrys???
Waht about the parents and children taking some responsibility?
Are schools baby sitting facilities??
Adrian Hinds // December 5, 2008 at 11:40 AM
Ronald Jones would want to get upset if someone suggest that he has a pronounced feminine side, such as the BLP election 2008 election platform suggested. We all should know of some instances where Two seperated parents, not on speaking terms would say all manner of negative things about each other to their off-spring.
Did he not expect to get a tongue lashing from the School Principals for his unprincipled provocation? Could he not have dealt with this via private conversations and only with those Principles who have so acted? and sending a general memo reminding others of the law and their responsibilities?
However I think he has a point, as this action demonstrates a double standard for government, where the law provides for Teacher/school reponsibility and safety of the student during school hours. Such responsibility and safety cannot be in place when children are sent home, and are on the streets during school hours. In some societies this situation is dealt with by having the parent pick up the child, as a rule. A complete transfer of adult supervision and responsibiliy at a time when the law is clear who has charge. The child will stay in the principal’s office or some designated area until the parent arrives. The continued practice can never be what is occuring now, when students need to be dicipline. Matthew Farley was right for diciplining those students who broke the dress code, he was wrong for having children in his responsibility, on the streets at a time when the LAW says they are under his care. If a Principal had done that to my child, i would seek a audience with them (Principal) to let him know that i am suppose to be called when the need to have that child leave school inside the time that it is suppose to be there, occurs, because continued failure to do so would result in a lawsuit, for, if my child is injured on the streets during that time, I cannot gaurantee that all hell for Mr. Farley would not break out. I like to live within the law, and working out problems, with others via communication, but when others take it upon themselves to flout said law and to remove themselves from accessibility and compromise, and such action disadvantages me , then my own form of justice will be front and center on the table of choices.
The Scout // December 5, 2008 at 11:49 AM
Negro Man
While there is some merit in what Min Jones said, the time and place to say it was wrong. I maintain, if he felt so strongely about the matter, a meeting with the principals and cuss them out, I could live wiyh that but not in front of the daid school chidren in the first case and then have it reported on T.V for all the others to see. This method degrades the status of the principals and gives the school child the support to challenge and in some cases ignore the instructions of the principals. This can cause chaos at some schools.Additionally, it also gives some stupid parent to go to the school and accost the principals. Finally, some principals might just go through the motion and allow the students to do as they please at school. Thre MUST be a balance and I suggest that the powers that be come together A.S.A.P trash out the matter, take what ever steps are needed to resolve the matter and then make a public joint statement and put this potential explosive matter to rest. Show some maturity; both entities have interest in the children’s future.
me // December 5, 2008 at 11:55 AM
But what if he called you on several occassions, what if he sent letters to you on several occassions ? What if he did this and your child still did as they wished?
So In my humble Opin there a need fro a more active social work service to deal with these situations…the principals can only do so much.
So celarly there is a need for everyone to work together instaed of the MIN crying down the principals.
Mr Farley is not the problem… instaed poor parenting and poor management of vulnerable groups needs to be addressed.
Fair Play // December 5, 2008 at 12:13 PM
Is Mr. Farley breaking the law by working at VOB?I thought the General Orders said that civil servants cannot do ny other work for pay.
David // December 5, 2008 at 12:15 PM
Mathew Farley has indicated several times that many of the children who are sent home he would have been trying to contact some of the parents for over 2-3 years. When asked what would happen if a female pupil was raped when she should have have been in school he suggested that the matter would have to resort to the law courts.
We however agree with me that some positives can come out of this mess. The schools have a challenge dealing with some of the monsters who we have to call students. We all know that parental delinquency is at a all time high given the restructuring of the modern family i.e. both parents away at work getting home late etc. Many of the teachers/principals are unable to teach.
Lets fix the damn system, it will call for ALL to come together and stop with the breast beating.
Anonymous // December 5, 2008 at 1:23 PM
@ Fair Play
General orders my ass! How many teachers give private lessons and earn money on de side?
mad man // December 5, 2008 at 1:48 PM
at schools at lunchtime and arter school using the schools resources and equipment……
Negroman // December 5, 2008 at 1:55 PM
I believe we must stop playing politics with the future of our children.Mathew Farley & Jeff Broomes must put their political allegiance aside and be professional enough to recognise that the education of our children is paramount.The very existence of black people in Barbados is dependent on the continous education that our children & grand children receive in the future.The signs are there to destroy the gains we have made as black people in Barbados.Remember the call by some elites that education in Barbados should not be free.
We are talking about discipline in schools and the punishment that should be given to students that disobey the school rules.This society is so damn hyprocritical that it makes me sick.At Queen College school the school children there are just as wicked,disruptive & illdiscipline as at other secondary schools.There are cases at Queen College school where students cursed teachers,threatened them and in some instances physically assaulted them.I know of a case where a teacher had a homosexual relationship with a school boy.He was in the habit of taking advantage of that school boy when the cadet corp of that school went on overseas trip.That case was never highlighted in the press.Neither the abuses those students at that prestigious school did was ever bought to light.The teachers at that school were and are powerless to do anything about the bad behavior of those students.The simple reason those students are the children of the powerful,rich & influential people of Barbados.No damn black teacher at Queen College has the courage to suspend or enforce any discipline on those rich people children.Talk about hyprocrisy & double standards. As usual I want anyone to come & dispute these allegations.What I am sayin is the gospel truth.I will put my life on line .
Do any of you all think that if Matthew Farley was the principal of Queen College would he has the balls to suspend any of those rich people children for any infraction of the school rules?
Why didn’t the press of Barbados carry any further stories on the student at Harrison College who went on the school’s roof?
I wonder why
me // December 5, 2008 at 3:10 PM
LOL as usual some idiot on here throws up smoke screens…
What does QC etc have to do with the issu at hand? Why must we always bring sin other issues to distarct from the central issue?
I went to an Older secondary school and people were sent home as well, some ended up at Dodds.
What is the point?
permres // December 5, 2008 at 3:18 PM
I am reading this thread with great interest. I have been a school teacher for nearly 40 years, secondary trained, and with primary and infant experience. Negroman, I think, makes many very relevant and pertinent points.
However, the issue is not black vv white, or any other confrontations, but what sort of education do we want for ALL of our children? It may be a case of looking at the private sector, seeing what they have to offer, and using their practice to influence our government schools. This is already happening in the UK. I am impressed by the Codrington School here in Barbados:
http://www.codrington.edu.bb/cs/public/default.asp
I am now retired but I hope and pray that decisions will be made, at the highest levels, to ensure the world-wide education of our children. Please, everyone, look at the curriculum of the Codrington School. (And do not dismiss it as a ‘white’ school.)
permres // December 5, 2008 at 3:20 PM
I am reading this thread with great interest. I have been a school teacher for nearly 40 years, secondary trained, and with primary and infant experience. Negroman, I think, makes many very relevant and pertinent points.
However, the issue is not black vv white, or any other confrontations, but what sort of education do we want for ALL of our children? It may be a case of looking at the private sector, seeing what they have to offer, and using their practice to influence our government schools. This is already happening in the UK. I am impressed by the Codrington School here in Barbados:
http://www.codrington.edu.bb/cs/public/default.asp
I am now retired but I hope and pray that decisions will be made, at the highest levels, to ensure the world-wide education of our children. Please, everyone, look at the curriculum of the Codrington School. (And do not dismiss it as a ‘white’ school.)
me // December 5, 2008 at 3:41 PM
I think you should direct the Minister to look too!
David // December 5, 2008 at 3:55 PM
Did we hear on the news that Patrick Todd is acting minister of education? Where is Minister Jones? Hope he is not in Jamaica watching football at this critical period. Please correct us any member of the BU family!
Isa // December 5, 2008 at 4:46 PM
Mr Farley, what is wrong with you? You got a sex problem or something? When you took over the school it seemed to be all about dress code, especially the girls. OK, but going to school is all about education, and that is what you should address. Consider this for example. Plump students, when they sit their dress will ride up, but slender students, they can pass your test, I guess?
Take your eyes off the girls, and put your eyes on the education of all of your students! You should be in the army, not running a school, and do not deprive the children of their education, and keep your eyes off the young girls’ legs!
PS. You cannot send them home, you are depriving them of their education, even if you have to keep them in a separate room. That’s an experience in itself, surely! Far better than them wandering the streets.
Help // December 5, 2008 at 5:19 PM
@J
Sarcasm……I was being sarcastic so don’t try to banish me to outer space…..my friend
Carson C. Cadogan // December 5, 2008 at 6:30 PM
“Currently teachers/parents have to pay the Caribbean Dyslexic Centre out of their own pockets to help children suffering from D.”
Did this start since Jones became Minister of Education?
David // December 5, 2008 at 6:51 PM
@CCC
Don’t miss the point we are making. All we are saying is that there are many deep rooted problems to be solved which requires a big effort by all the players in education. This bickering, breast beating and grandstanding is doing nothing positive to assist.
Tell me Why // December 5, 2008 at 8:01 PM
I support Minister Jones position on the abuse of power by some school principals.School principals should not be sending home school children for little infractions of school rules.
………………………………………………………
Negroman. We must all be cognisant of the fact, that children comes home with all types of accusation against schools. But do we check with the schools to clarify the problems or we behave like the lady in today’s Nation (Page 17) where she was accusing three different schools for sending home her three children for various causes. However the three schools responded with three different reasons citing that the school did everything possible to assist these kids. These children were hell bent in not attending school and gave various reasons not to attend school.
This bring us back to Mr. Jones accusing these principals for sending home children.What he should have done, was to find out the true reason why children are on the road between 9 a.m and 3 p.m. He will be surprise with the findings.Unfortunately,he already burnt the bridge of reasoning with his outlandish behaviour, only to have a press conference to give his reason. Are we going to see statements and then retractions of statements? Stupes!!!!
The Scout // December 5, 2008 at 9:22 PM
Negor Man
You’re missing the point. It is not whether Min.Jones or Mr Farley is right or wrong but I maintain Min Farley is wrong to use a forum like that to say what he said. he should have called the principals together and trash out the problem. This is not a Farley issue ALL school principals feel belittled by the comments.
School tie // December 5, 2008 at 9:42 PM
Is Mr. Farley breaking the law by working at VOB?I thought the General Orders said that civil servants cannot do ny other work for pay.
…………………………………………………………….
Good question. Farley is a law unto himself. Does he do what he is paid to do? The substantial time Farley spends courting publicity in the media and elsewhere should be spent teaching the nation’s kids. Thats what he is paid to do. Farley is involved in everything except teaching.
And that voice, oh my God. I wish Farley would shut up so I wouldnt have to hear that whining irritating voice of his .
Jones has a point but making it in front of children wasnt bright. Jones urgently needs to undertake a remedial course in English and diction. Dese, dose, dem, dat, thrildren, are alright with the fellows under the tamarind tree but not for a Minister of Education.
The Scout // December 5, 2008 at 9:57 PM
School tie
That’s right, but two wrongs don’t make any of them right. The only ones to get hurt are the children themselves.Can we allow two jerks to ruin our educational system? we need a mediator, some-one trusted to call the entire group together, school principals and Min. Jones, let them cuss each other but in the end reach an agreement and make a joint statement. I call on ALL of them to act responsible.
Ian Bourne // December 5, 2008 at 10:22 PM
I agree with Jones – where do schoolkids go when they’re sent home? Schools are IN LOCO PARENTIS; in place of parents – if something happens to them as they are heading home while really due in school’s care, who stands blame? Parents? Chaw!
Matthew Farley is a bombastic twerp who if he had his way would not allow Damien Griffith to be a Senator for daring to tout braids! A Pre-Colonial jackass such as Farley should be removed as principal then flogged with a tamarind switch dipped in horse urine, given a year’s detention and 3 bln. lines as follows….
“I AM IN THE 21ST CENTURY, I WILL LEARN WHAT NEW STYLES AND MORALS EXIST POST-EMANCIPATION & POST INDEPENDENCE; I MUST CONFORM 2 SAME MORES”
The Scout // December 5, 2008 at 10:35 PM
I fail to see how intelligent people like Negro Man and Ian Bourne cannot see that the major problem is not who is right or wrong on the subject matter but the method used is WRONG. They both need to understand business manners. As I have stated earlier, Min Jones has always been arrogantand like talking down to people, Mr Farley is very contrivesal, yet they both means well in a different way, all it needs is some-one to gel the two together before it cause irrepairable damage. Both are being childish and I call on the two goodly bloggers afore mentioned to use your commonsense and try to convince these two gentlemen to do the same. this is my final comment on this issue other than to compliment them both for ending the impass.
Asiba-The Buffalo Soldier-still 2 much FAT on the road // December 5, 2008 at 11:09 PM
GO GET THEM RONALD
BIG-UP TO MY FORMER TEACHER
Evergreen // December 5, 2008 at 11:32 PM
Minister Jones was right to vent. Sometimes situations demand that you do and say at a particular time. I just wonder wuh tek he so long. His comments can’t make the situation any worse. I think the only reason for the storm in the teacup is because the girls at the school clapped and had a good laugh. Some principals believe that our schools are their little kingdoms that they could do as they please with the people children. I hear so many horror stories, especially from our boys. A lot of them have no recourse that is why they drop out of school. My children went to a certain school and because of perception, you know the ignorant principal told us that my children should not be associating with some children because of his warped thinking. Not a thing did wrong wid dem children, all duh want was a litte love and teaching. Everything the children do, especially the boys if duh play too rough, he use to either call de parents or next ting yuh know duh get suspend for flimsy reason. The 5th form students at that school were only too glad to get their CXC’s and finish school. As far as I know the boys that get pick pon, aint went Dodds or got into any kind of trouble and yuh know duh working. In my opinion children should be learning in a safe, relaxed, happy environment, not worrying about if de principal gine send dem home.
All Min. Jones did was to get a few principals vex. So Matthew, Karen, Mary and Jeff guh long and teach de people children and stop pretending that wunna don’t talk outa line sometimes.
Tell me Why // December 5, 2008 at 11:48 PM
I agree with Jones – where do schoolkids go when they’re sent home? Schools are IN LOCO PARENTIS;
……………………………………………………….
Ian, how many times these children were sent home since July? Everyday you see students on the road during school hours, are you saying these students were sent home?
You seems to have a grouse with Farley, thus you would crucify him before you deal with issue at hand. You let me down buddy.
Tell me Why // December 5, 2008 at 11:59 PM
My children went to a certain school and because of perception, you know the ignorant principal told us that my children should not be associating with some children because of his warped thinking.
……………………………………………………….
Be bold. Tell us the school. I would be thankful for a teacher or principal to alert me if my kids are in the wrong company. Maybe, the principal knew something that we are too blind to see.
J // December 6, 2008 at 1:04 AM
Negroman wrote “The teachers at that school were and are powerless to do anything about the bad behavior of those students.”
That is not true you know. When my girl was a prefect at HC she had reason to disipline a judge’s son. I said to her (just joking you know) “don’t you know that that is a judge’s son”. She said to me. “I’ll deal with him now and if his judicial parent ever has to deal with me, then they will deal with me, but when I am the prefect in charge he HAS to obey.”
And we ain’t big shots. Said boy turned out all right, and I am sure that judicial parent is grateful for the disipline enforced.
If a 16 year old girl can keep a judge’s son in line, don’t you think that grown teachers (who are taking our money every month too) can do the same.
Stupseee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Negroman why you feel so powerless???
me // December 6, 2008 at 2:28 AM
some of us cant handle the truth about our children…
I see children on the street after 3 and before 9 in the morning… what if something happens to them then…who si responsibility. Why does it then matter if the said childern are on the street between 9 and 3. I dont see a difference.
In addition if the principal call me and tell me that my chile is disruptive and to collect the chile and I cant come because I work until 5pm and he send home de chile at 1pm ….waht is the difference. I dont be home at 3 niether!
General Lee // December 6, 2008 at 10:08 AM
Min. Jones style of delivery is his weakness.
The school system in Barbados is full of double standards, one for the top and one for the bottom.
At the beginning of the term, some schools sent home children for breaching the code and others did not even though we were told that all principals were in agreement on the code.
Can anyone guess which schools sent the students back on the streets.
Does anyone deny that students from the newer secondary schools are sent home for offences more readily than students in older secondary schools?
If there is one education act then it should be followed by all principals across the system.
The minister imho believes that some principals are ignoring policies set by the ministry and behave as though they are above the ministry (minister?).
On another note,
The top schools gets the brightest and the bottom schools the rest, both sets of students are then expected to take the same examinations at the same time and we then compare the results and grade the schools on the number of passes they receive. Is this fair to the students or teachers?
It would be great if Min. Jones would also look at this issue.
JC // December 6, 2008 at 1:03 PM
ha ha ha it amazes me that persons can get so riled up about what Minister Jones said. Ha ha ha ha.
I went to an older secondary school and the teachers made my life a living hell! Many of them thought that I would be in jail by now ha ha ha ha!
I got my CXCs when I left school and I did some more and now I am trying to get a degree ha ha ! Persons who were preist’s sons and so on got the sweet treatment, persons who the teachers thought would have made it are now on bail ha ha I aint see the back of a policeman jeep yet. Furthermore, I raise my children with more principles than them so called teachers ever had or will have!
Jones was right!
Who stands up for the children I am not saying they are right to be rude and not be disciplined but if something happens to them who will be held responsible!
The Ministry of Education will be sued or castigated Jonesie ya right!
me // December 6, 2008 at 1:06 PM
I cant wait until there are more PRIVATE schools in Barbados where rules will be followed and parents will be involved in their childrens welfare.
Bonny Peppa // December 6, 2008 at 1:27 PM
Stupseeeeeeeee, this is what I call making a mountain out of a mole hill.
Parents need to know that they are responsible for their offspring. Not the Minister, Principals,Teachers, Police etc. There are far too many muddas and faddas in this place and not enough mummies and daddies. Your children are YOUR responsibility.Discipline begins in the home or the womb, whichever. These nowaday parents want to be more friends than parents to their children. Bare joke. Too many tails wagging de dogs these days. We got to get back to good old parenting man.
Isa, is your name short for Isa-ass? Your comments about Mr.Farley are not very becoming for an adult. Let’s hope for your sake and everyone’s sake that you are not a parent. If so, you’re a typical example of ‘how de yout get so’.
Shame on you.
Stuupseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.
Anonymous // December 6, 2008 at 1:40 PM
Bonny Peppa
you are so obnoxious
you bore me with your silly antics
ban yourself from barbados underground
Bonny Peppa // December 6, 2008 at 1:55 PM
Anonymous,
I will take your advice. I’m packing my bags. Adios, hasta la vista, so long. But I leave with a heavy heart cause I really thought that you Anonymous luffs me more than Scout or Pat or 199 or ROK, even Chris Halsall. Deceived…………again. (sob, sob)
Adrian Hinds // December 6, 2008 at 5:58 PM
Nothing justifies having school age children on the road during school hours. The law makes the case for why they should be in school, and only the LAW should make the case for them to be sent away from school, during class time.
sOur // December 6, 2008 at 6:30 PM
Maybe he could have said it in another forum but he said what needed to be said. Why should he resign? Are human beings not entitled to mistakes? I was once sent out of class for not knowing the work. The attitudes of some educators leave MUCH to be desired and many of them are not as educated as they promote themselves to be. Sometimes they act as if the children are their enimies and are not there to be nurtured and taught.
HATS OFF to Mr. Jones for letting them know dem doing nuff shite!
As for Farty Farley, his attitude pisses me off….then again he still thinks a fellow with braided hair should be judged on his appearance rather than his ability. He even brings parents to tears when speaking to them…ole headstrong foolish @ss.
Bonny Peppa // December 6, 2008 at 6:43 PM
Sour,
Ya sour fa true but ma likes ya. And I quote,” Hats off to Mr.Jones for letting them know dem doing nuff shite”. Ya bad. Ya sour like a goose-berry man…..or acid rain. Go Sour go. Is dat Mr Farley’s other christian name? It sound funny to me doe. Mr. Mathew Farty Farley. Uh-uh, dah in song rite.
Happy Holidays.
J // December 6, 2008 at 7:43 PM
A part of the problem is that many of us think that education is free.
Many teachers believe that they are doing us a favour by teaching our children, becasue “it is free, we ain’t paying for it.”
Many parents believe that education has no value because they are “not paying for it.”
Many children do not value their educational opportunities because they too believe that it is free.
The truth is that it isn’t free.
The average middle class Bajan more MORE taxes on the same income than the average American or Canadian.
So why do so many of us behave that education is free and therefore has no value?
Tax paying parents (and we are ALL tax payers) should demand value for tax MONEY from the teachers and principals.
Tax paying parents should DEMAND value for tax MONEY from the Minister of Education, The Ministry of Education, the principals, the classroom teachers, the educational officers on Constitution Road, the janitors, the secretaries, the school meals servers, EVERYBODY.
Tax paying parents (that is ALL of us, because we pay 15% value added tax on anything more luxurious than a pound of flour) should DEMAND that their children go to school regularly, and should DEMAND that the children pay attention and work hard while they are at school.
For too long we have let politicians fool us that they are “giving us free education” even while we pay 15% VAT on most goods, 25% income tax on any income above $24,600 per, high rates of property tax, high rates of road tax etc., etc., etc.
And we have LET public officials treat us and our children with contempt.
We have been afraid to make HARD DEMANDS on our teachers and policy makers because we are foolish enough to believe tht they are doing us a favour, giving us a freeness.
Education in Barbados is not free. We paying a lot of taxes. We are ENTITLED to DEMAND value for our tax MONEY from our teachers and other civil servants.
J // December 6, 2008 at 7:47 PM
We do not have to send our children to private schools in order for them to get a good education. We have the right, right now to demand that our teachers and educational officals deliver.
WE PAY THEM.
J // December 6, 2008 at 8:00 PM
When I was just a youth the old people (those who had raised 10 or more children well) had a saying:
“The stricter the master, the wilder the beast.”
A word to the wise is sufficient.
Isa // December 6, 2008 at 9:00 PM
Bonny Peppa, it is not relevent whether I am a parent or not. It is the responsibility of all persons to keep an eye on our children and our educational system. Getting back to you, from your reply to me, I have assumed that you are a single parent and teacher, that does not care for your students. So, you must address yourself with a bit of class, look after the children whom you are teaching, so that you can be a better parent and teacher. Merry Christmas!
Bonny Peppa // December 6, 2008 at 11:57 PM
Isa,
Merry Christmas to you too darlinks. I’ve been called many things before from a nun to a prostitute, so you assuming that I am a teacher just adds to de list honey. And no, I was not a single parent. I am a mother and grandmother also, who like you has the interest of these children at heart. I just thought that your remarks about Mr. Farley were a bit irrational. Don’t know him personally but he doesn’t seem to be the perverted type that you seemed to be portraying him to be. Maybe you were just being a bit facetious. If I seemed a bit hard on you, my apologies m’am. Again, Yuletide Greetings. Ma likes ya still.
Adrian Hinds // December 7, 2008 at 2:51 AM
Adrian Hinds // December 6, 2008 at 5:58 pm
Nothing justifies having school age children on the road during school hours. The law makes the case for why they should be in school,
….. and only the LAW should make the case for them to be sent away from school, during class time.
******AND HERE IS THE CASE THE LAW MAKES IN THAT REGARD******
Jeff Cumberbatch in his Barbados Sunday Dec 7th 2008 Advocate column “Musings” titled “The Power To Exclude” opiniates as follows:
” It is important therefore that Principals gain a clear understanding of their power to exclude a child from school, and not do so merely because they now have “reduced” methods of punishment”. whatever that may mean, in the face of a breakdown of discipline.
Just as the power to inflict corporal punishment is now a creature of the statute and no longer dependent on the principle in loco parentis, so too the power to exclude from school is cabined and confined within, as lawyers say, the four corners of the relevant provision in the Education Regulations 1982.
According to Regulation 29 (1), “Where any pupil of a public school commits any act that causes injury to a teacher or another pupil or where his conduct is such that his presence in the school is likely to have a detrimental effect on the discipline of other pupils of he school, the principal may suspend the pupil from the school for a period not exceeding ten (10) school days”. It is immediately noticeable here that suspension is only permitted for certain forms of serious misconduct and that the principal’s power to suspend is merely permissive and he may do so only for a limited period.
Sub-regulation 2 goes on to stipulate that the Principal, on suspending a pupil, must immediately notify the Board or Committee of Management AND the PARENT ( my emphasis). There is no indication here that this procedure is optional or alternative in nature.
A plain reading of the law therefore would suggest that there is no power in a Principal to send home a child in the circumstance outlined in the incident related by the Minister.
———————————————-
Read the full text of Jeff’s Column, his reasoning is base on law, and as i have said before the law will always be my guide, not any man, and if Mr. Farley or whomever cannot operate within the confines of the law, and their actions disadvantage me and my child, i will see him in court. We must always be a nation of laws otherwise it will be “your law is not my law” and everyman for himself. Can’t we see what is happening in our country? Last week we had all manner of excuses for the continued use of Marijuana inspite of the law, and now we have all manner of excuses being made for Principals engaging in behavour contrary to law. This cannot work people. Somebody can get hurt if we continue down this path.
The Scout // December 7, 2008 at 3:40 AM
Therefore the law needs revisiting to deal with the modern climate of our schools. In some schools female teachers are scared to go certain areas of the school for fear of being assaulted. Sexual activities are prominent at some schools during break and mostly after school and teachers are afraid to report incedences for fear of being victimised by students. At one school, a youngster was suspended for bad behaviour but came to school every day of the suspension so that he could service his drug clients at school and was reported to have informed the principal that if he want trouble, he can inform the Ministry and his thugs would come for him. These are just a few of the incedents that I heard/ knew about. Principals/ teachers are having a rough time at our schools and I think this episcode will only strenthen the students against the administration. What is freightening is that this activity has crept into some of our primary schools. To me these are the matters that Min Jones and the Principals need to be addressing urgently.
Yardbroom // December 7, 2008 at 7:25 AM
I am dissappointed that a commenter should see fit to introduce an identified school child into the debate, to further their argument.
This is totally unnecessary – your argument is strong enough without it – even in Courts of Law convicted “minors” are often not named and thus protected.
This perhaps is an oversight but we should be mindful of our responsibilities…if we seek to ask them of others.
Adrian Hinds // December 7, 2008 at 9:42 AM
Yardbroom I have no idea to whom you are referring. I went back several posts to see which commenter earned your disappointment, and was none the wiser. Could you have not stated who and what comments brought you this disappointment? schuuuppsse
Facts:
If the law can be interpreted to wily nilly send home school children, I am sure that it can be used in the situation you highlighted. There are also other laws to deal with the student’s response to the suspension, and police should be called in to enforce those laws. However I agree with you. All need to act, and can do so with existing laws.
Juris // December 7, 2008 at 9:46 AM
AH, I think Yardbroom is referring to Farley’s daughter.
Yardbroom // December 7, 2008 at 10:29 AM
Adrian
Juris is correct but I tried not to introduce by identification again.
Bush Tea // December 7, 2008 at 10:43 AM
@Adrian Hinds
While your legalistic logic is highly appreciated, I am sure that you are well aware that it is this kind of logic that has placed your adopted country in the downward slide that it is now on…
There is nothing that is more important to the future of a country than the development of its children. This places special responsibility on parents, communities (church) and schools in this regard.
The home has been severely compromised because of broken homes, busy schedules due to the focus on materialistic success and by a generation of really ignorant parents.
The church is useless.
This leaves the schools.
The only hope here is for strong leaders to establish standards and rules which can mould children into good citizens.
To do this, teachers need to be creative, innovative, loving and dedicated to that cause. The task is complex, what works with one child may fail completely with another. THERE IS NO ONE LAW OR RULE THAT CAN BE UNIVERSALLY APPLIED TO RAISING CHILDREN.
What we need are wise, committed principals.
Bush Tea’s proposals are to
0 – get a ‘real real’ minister
1- shut down the ministry of education (except for the receptionist who can redirect calls to the appropriate school).
2. publish each school’s results annually (academic, discipline, management and development results)
3- promote and encourage the type of leadership that works and demote/ discourage that where results are poor
The very last thing that we need is for lawyers to be controlling the education system like in Adrian’s country. When that happens, we may as well close the schools.
…just look back over the years at the successes that we have had in education and every one of them will attribute their success to INDIVIDUAL teachers and principals like ‘Tank’, Major Noot, Major Barker, etc..
…leave the Principals alone.
ROK // December 7, 2008 at 10:53 AM
People’s, the law is always subject to interpretation. What is ill-discipline? Note the language: “..any student commits any act”.
Secondly, it does not say physical injury, it simply says that causes any “injury”. By law, it means that a child could be send home for words said, that caused non-physical injury to teacher, principal or students.
The law is full of loopholes. The more you try to tighten the language, the larger the monster. Here, it would seem that the law specifies one particular condition, but really it is so wide, that the principal could send home a child for almost anything and get away with it.
The problem is always how the law is applied. Take for example the Vagrancy Act which is no longer on the statute books. It actually allowed the Police to persecute citizens. If you stop walking you could be arrested and if you kept walking in a circle or up and down, you could still be arrested under this law.
We seem to think that law covers all, but there are such things as conventions and culture which support legal interpretation. Cost, for example in the Courts means the Attorney’s fees and no other costs, even though the legislation does not specifically state this, nor does the law deny you the cost in its wording, but by convention and precedence, cost is restricted to Attorney’s fees.
ROK // December 7, 2008 at 11:02 AM
Another point about the law. Which is why there is good law and bad law. Now if as a contingency, there was a provision in the Act which stated that a child should not be denied “Schooling” or “instruction” (not education as this is a long term thing and a child can be sent home for ten days without hampering its education) for frivilous reasons, then this would put a spin on the interpretation of “causes any injury”, since the interpretation of an injury can now be placed in the category of frivilous.
Just an example.
The Devil // December 7, 2008 at 11:05 AM
Bush tea
one thing I like about you is that you are consistent…that said, given that many Principals do not display any of the characteristics of empathetic, reasoned, achievement-oriented and wise leadership, why should they be “left alone”?
This spat between Jones and some anonymous principals does seem to indicate the correctness of your thesis that Ministers are impotent blowhards.
Jones should be fired for unknowingly revealing this condition.
For you on this beautiful Sunday morning from Dante’s Divine Comedy on decribing the Gates of Hell…
“Justice the founder of my fabric mov’d:
To rear me was the task of power divine,
Supremest wisdom, and primeval love.
Before me things create were none, save things
Eternal, and eternal I endure.
All hope abandon ye who enter here.”
Tony Hall // December 7, 2008 at 11:25 AM
Children must follow the rules but one thing I would wish to know. Before children are sent home do the principals contact the parents to inform them of the action being taken? I wonder, because what would be the explanation for children liming in town during school hours? Maybe someone can enlighten me.
Bush Tea // December 7, 2008 at 11:46 AM
@Devil
You done know that I well frighten for you too… and that was even before I realise that you used to quote big up poets….
By ‘left alone’ I am sure that you know I mean “left to get on with their important work.”
Like all of us, some are well suited for that work and do well, while others do quite poorly.
NOTE MY SECOND and THIRD POINT….
2-Publish all school results
3-Promote those with good results, and
Demote (get rid of) those with poor results..
i.e. Let us judge them by their FRUITS.
With respect to the ministers.. most of them “know that they know not..” but unfortunately, too many of them “know not that they know not …”
I am no poet, but I like this piece of draft…
He who knows, and knows that he knows – he is wise, follow him
He who knows, and knows not that he knows – he is asleep, wake him
He who known not, and knows that he knows not, the PS will control him.. and
He who knows not, and knows not that he knows not – will go around talking bovine excrement and causing embarrassment.
Bush Tea // December 7, 2008 at 11:56 AM
@ Tony Hall,
The principals here are generally very responsible citizens, teachers, parents and leaders. They would have been in the ‘children business’ for decades…
You think that they will generally put a child at that kind of risk like that? it would have to be a VERY RARE case of poor judgement or where it may have been the BETTER option rather than keep the child in school and have someone maimed or KILLED…
..most of the jokers talking would not survive as a principal for 4 hours on any school day…. wanna think it easy? the children ALMOST running things right now and wanna talking bout tying the principals’ hands?
What rules what?!?
You think this is the States?
…keep this up and we will soon be debating if Principals should be allowed to take AK47’s to work…
The Devil // December 7, 2008 at 12:09 PM
Good one BT! I hope you acknowledge that instituting your second and third points will mean that principals and teachers will be held accountable. Accountability is a veritable hell for civil servants and such words are not to be spoken in the benighted halls of bureaucracy .
J // December 7, 2008 at 12:27 PM
Yardbroom wrote “I am dissappointed that a commenter should see fit to introduce an identified school child into the debate”
I did NOT introduce an identified school child by name. Besides she is no longer a child.
It was the police, presumably with the consent of one or both parents, and the editors of our news organizations who introduced the girl’s name and situation to the public.
If something (someody) is ALREADY in the public domain I will always feel free to comment on it.
If you do ot want me to comment on your business or your children’s business then you must work with your children IN YOUR HOME to get them to behave themselves so that their business does not come to my notice.
That said I believe that Mr. Farley has problems managing adolescents. Perhaps he was an EXCELLENT primary school principal, and perhaps he should be permitted to return to a primary school.
Dealing with adolescents is different from dealing with small children. I know. I am older than Mr. Farley and I’ve raised more that one child and helped to raise many others (I was 6 when my mother first went to town to buy the groceries and left me to care for 2 younger ones for several hours- I did well) and they have all turned our well. I have never have to go to the school, the police, lawyers, nor psychologists never have to come to me.
As I’ve learned from the man in my life -also a teacher- sometimes the best thing we can do for our teenagers is to HOLD them with OPEN arms.
J // December 7, 2008 at 12:30 PM
And Yardbroom if we are having a conversation and there is a BIG PINK ELEPHANT in the middle of the room, then yes I have to talk about the BIG PINK ELEPHANT.
Yardbroom // December 7, 2008 at 12:54 PM
J
I take your point I will let that rest.
You once wrote a comment on BFP that was so funny and entertaining, I was laughing for days, my wife thought I was mad, it was so well done I remember it well…I digress.
I spent over twenty five years in an educational establishment with adolescents…this has taught me they “must have boundaries”, firm but fair the alternative is anarchy, any weakness will be exploited.
Marcus2 // December 7, 2008 at 1:37 PM
farley
. Talkshow host
. Technical operator
. Newspaper writer
. Woman hound
. Hire car renter
. Busy body
. Jackass
. Fool
. Wife left he
. Daughter run way from home
.
.
.
.
.
. Teacher
I wonder if Karen Best is any better.
ROK // December 7, 2008 at 2:50 PM
So Marcus 2
What is your take on all that. I know of a family of three including mother only. One child ran away from home and the other was happy with his lot. What could one conclude on the face of that?
Farley cannot be the first principal to bring a parent to tears. Many people just don’t like to hear the truth. Some4 believe that because they are an adult nobody should talk to them about certain things. However, sometimes a person needs to hear the truth from time to time. OIf course you may ask, what is the truth.
Too many parents tolerate indiscipline from their children, but the problem with that is that the children end up not knowing how to behave, so their behaviour in public comes across looking like disrespect.
The Scout // December 7, 2008 at 3:05 PM
Marcus2; J; and others like you.
Keep it up, your stupid, irresponsible comments will greatly enhance our education system. When I was at school, my teachers taught students, today most teachers teach a subject. It’s up to the student if he/she wants to learn. This has come about because of the scant respect paid to teachers. Plus the older teacher who can’t do that are retiring as soon as their easliest time is up. These teachers are not going the extra mile simply because parents today expect the teacher to teach their children everything, even manners, and morals, yet if the teacher has to scold the child for anything the parent don’t like the parent ready to go to the school to fight. People, is so-called progress causing us to get arrogant and ignorant. Teaching, nursing and policing are three of the hardest jobs in Barbados, yet we treat these three catagory of people with little respect. Stop the foolishness, these children is the future of our country, if this is the way we want this country to go, I think some of you should be charged with disrupting this society. May I suggest that some of you neophites stop blogging unless it is something sensible. I’ve very serious.
JC // December 7, 2008 at 3:15 PM
J // December 6, 2008 at 7:43 pm
———————————————–
My sentiments exactly!
Anonymous // December 7, 2008 at 4:31 PM
Not all conflict is bad, when processed and handled aright it can deliver amazing results.
Perhaps it is time for the teachers, the Ministry and the students to have introspection.
I did not get an opportunity to hear Mr. Farley’s response to mr. Jones’ comments, but one thing I do know is that the Garrison School is in shambles. Ask the students how many teachers bother to come to the classes to teach them. Fourth form students barely doing 2nd form level work.
I happenend to be there for an event a few weeks ago and overheard a parent saying that a teacher told her that they were employing the “up and out” concept for the children.
If conflict going to reform and revamp the educational system them let the conflict continue.
Adrian Hinds // December 7, 2008 at 7:16 PM
Bush Tea // December 7, 2008 at 10:43 am
@Adrian Hinds
While your legalistic logic is highly appreciated, I am sure that you are well aware that it is this kind of logic that has placed your adopted country in the downward slide that it is now on…
The very last thing that we need is for lawyers to be controlling the education system like in Adrian’s country. When that happens, we may as well close the schools.
===========================
I am not going to accept from the above that you have little uses for the Education act of Barbados, or that you have little regard for the LAW and the role it should play in the affairs of men. No i will not do that. However I am a big strong man and as such carry the belief that in an Anarchic society, such as could occur when your “law is not my Law” replaces adherance to national law, that i would fare not so bad by administering my form of justice and subjecting others to it as well. But if perchance your two comments above were also intended to take a swipe at America hoping that i rush to it’s defence, yuh gine got tuh first develop the argument some more, because i am not sure that whatever decline so see in this society isn’t evident elswhere as well.
….How else would you suggest that i bring Mr. Farley to the table of reason and adherance to the law? Meet him outside de school gate and cuff he in he face? or have him served to appear in court? I have no problem doing the former if the latter fails. :0 lol!
……………..
sOur // December 7, 2008 at 8:51 PM
@ All.
Why so much focus on punishing the student? Is punishment the best solution or are there other means available. Punishment the simply easiest way out! I suggest that lazy minds, lack of proper training and little creative thinking, which has become common place in our educational system maybe to blame for the prevailing view that punishment is the best way solve the problem of discipline in our schools.
Counsellors, social workers and special education teachers should play a more vital role in our educational system.
Take a look @ Summerville, correctional school for girls…troubled girls are placed in there by the system and receive no formal education or skills training, even though they are supposed to.
Take a look at the school for children with special needs ….During an interview I had with the head of the Challenor School, he was brought to tears when he spoke to me lack of funding and adequate support and equipment that is needed to help our special children reach their full potential. It broke my heart to see first hand how the educational system continues to fail our children.
Do we really value our children in Barbados ??
Yes parents have the major responisbilty but many of them are just children themselves. When will the cycle stop and when will we stop passing the blame onto someone else. Someone needs to fight for our children. WHO will it be?! Here Here Mr. Jones, at least someone has the balls to speak up!
Principals need to look for brighter and better ways to enforce the schools rules and spend more time getting to the root of the problem instead of trying to punish the behavior.
sOur // December 7, 2008 at 9:00 PM
Punishment has its place but it is not the only solution! At least his comments have Bajans thinking and talking!
Bonny Peppa // December 7, 2008 at 9:40 PM
Marcus 2,
Are you trying to be funny? Well try again, cause you failed this time around.
Pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.
Bush Tea // December 7, 2008 at 10:48 PM
@Adrian Hinds
did you REALLY say ”
*************************************
I am not going to accept from the above that you have little uses for the Education act of Barbados, or that you have little regard for the LAW and the role it should play in the affairs of men.
*************************************
Adrian, as one Holders hill man to a next – You really ask me dat?
What law what?!?
I am not talking bout no law -I talking bout common sense…
You name for me ONE law passed by the BLP in the last 10 years that make any kind of sense to you…..
They mash up Education, Credit Unions, Traffic management, Safety and health, land use policy, Immigration… you name it….
They passed numerous CSME laws that REMOVES the rights that Barbadians had as citizens here (our birthrights); refused to pass needed ones (like breathalyser testing), and almost all of those that they DID pass turned out to be flawed (like the seat belt one that had to be withdrawn partially etc)
What laws what?!? our recent laws are just a bunch of poorly thought out ideas put together by a bunch of jokers.
I put it to you that it IS the new education act – pushed by a gang of BLP women to try to bring Principals to heel- that has most resulted in the current poor performance of our schools.
You better try and come back home yuh!!! I can’t believe a sensible product of Holmes hamcutters could have come to the point of using laws put together by people who waged years of war against school principals (-starting with Orrie Smith- destroying schools like Lodge in the process) as something sacrosanct.
It must be something you eating down there in the ‘new nighted states’ yuh…
Tell me Why // December 8, 2008 at 1:18 AM
I wonder, because what would be the explanation for children liming in town during school hours? Maybe someone can enlighten me.
……………………………………………………….
Tony, those are the students the Ministry should round up and check with the school and parents. I don’t feel that these children were sent home by any principal.
I also have to blame parents who refuse to check reports showing that they children were absent for numerous days when the children never remained at home. When my children were at school, I can tell you when ever my children were sick and had to remain at home. When I see reports, the first thing I look for is the days absent section, then I would look at marks.
So Tony, those students are qualified limers due to the slackness of parents.
The Scout // December 8, 2008 at 4:03 AM
It is a fact that some children take to school extra outfit for their extra curricula activities. The acts that these children engage in after and during school would turn your black hair silver instantly. This new impasse is fodder for them.
J // December 8, 2008 at 7:47 AM
Dear Scout you wrote “…J; and others like you. Keep it up, your stupid, irresponsible comments ”
Read ALL my comments on this matter again and explain to me EXACTLY what is STUPID or IRRESPONSIBLE about them”
I am with my ALL my children EVERYDAY, from the day they are born until after they are responsible working ADULTS. I take (not send) them to church EVERY SUNDAY, my children are at school EVERYDAY that the school is open. The teachers NEVER complain about my children. My children are bright, respectful, honest, do not use drugs nor alcohol and have NEVER witnessed, nor experienced an act of violence in my home.
Can you Scout say the same?
Ian Bourne // December 8, 2008 at 8:04 AM
Watched a piece of Evening News last nite on TV-8; saw when R. Jones wants principals to draft a school plan by April 2009 – what they spend how and what they will do with budget. Jones is to assess if their respective Sports, Music, Maths, English getting fair attention…
In other words? HE MKG SURE THEY WORK AND BU WANTS JONES 2 RESIGN? choopz
Mussee got a friend who needs a pick, yuh!
The Scout // December 8, 2008 at 9:05 AM
J
I’m Sooooo proud of you and your achievements with your children. I just hope many other parents like you can say the same thing. To answer your question J, I am the proud father of three chidren, they are ALL graduates of UWI and gainfully imployed. Further more, I followed the tradition set by my parents and took my children to church and they are STILL, like me, involved in the church. My children, as far as the community and I know are mentors in the village they come from, right now I have stop accepting Godchildren and my children have taken over the position. I hope they NEVER disappoint me because it scares me that they are soooo good. I keep looking for the BAD in them because at that age there was some bad in me. I drifted away from church but returned after I matured. I would also add that I try to be my children BEST friend, BEST brother, Their CONFIDANTE and most of all the BEST father a child could ever want. When I’m wrong on a matter, I admit and ask for an apology from them. They do the same. Finally , my wife of forty years and I operate the same way. We live a life that pleases my children and that is the goal we hope to continue.Only recently my children were awarded at church for their work within the church, yet they are their own people and free to make their own decisions and they do. I hope this pleases you as your report really, honestly pleases me. As I said I just hope many other parents can make a similar or better report.
The Scout // December 8, 2008 at 9:11 AM
J
I still think the best solution to the Minister/Principal impasse, is dialogue between the parties involved and I also think Min Jones is arrogant. He may have a good point but the method used if flawed. Mr Farley must also carry some of the blame. Two wrongs don’t make a right.
JC // December 8, 2008 at 10:10 AM
Bush Tea you aint easy! But you are truthful!
fah real!
me // December 8, 2008 at 10:12 AM
I think that we have a serious disconnect between all the groups concerned and I think that some here are having opinions just for political reasons.
Jones was wrong wthere B or D he was wrong…
He could have made a pro-child speech with out crying down the head teachers in front of the students…
he could have made a speech about the many changes he was going to introduce at the ministry to help children get a proper education… there was so many other paths he could have taken .
What i find interesting with generation of children parents and the society are:
1. We want nicer teachers, better teachers for our children but we are not paying for such.
2. Our children are to be disciplined only in a manner prescribed by the parents… so I guess the tachers must call up these parents to ask how to discipline these kids.
3. Respect is earned some people like to say as opposed to having respect for a position such as a police, teacher, priest etc… which I guess means that childern should not respect authority UNTIL they earn that respcet…what aload of rubbish.
4.Children should not be sent home from school because they might get interferred with etc etc… Of course they do not get troubled when they are loitering in the bus stand and in town or pun a min-bus
5. Teachers need to understand the fact that de children have home problems and should be excused because of such… that explains why trhey have brand name gear, 20 earings, tattoes all over and a knife so let them be…
I could go on
J // December 8, 2008 at 10:32 AM
Scout wrote ” I keep looking for the BAD in them because at that age there was some bad in me. I drifted away from church but returned after I matured”
Maybe a good number of our parents and teachers are like you in a “drifting” phase.
me // December 8, 2008 at 1:21 PM
Scout and J you are not the problem…
My question to J is Have you ever had to take care of other peoples children ( people that you did not know) ? What was that experience like?
Do you realise what teachers are dealing with everyday?
Adrian Hinds // December 8, 2008 at 2:12 PM
Bush Tea I hope you understand that my frequenting Holmes bar wasn’t about de hamcutters. If I remember correctly, there were a bunch nice looking girls living upstairs. Ham cutters was a front to see these girls. Wuh evuh became of them?
I can live in both the lawfull and Lawless world, can you? :) While i do understand your points re. changes to laws and the legislating of new laws done in haste and seemly not congnizant of the prevailing reality and mindset of the citizentry, as to who gine follow dum and who gine enforce dum, the reality is that man cannot get along, it is not in our nature to get along for any length of time, hence the need for an agreed to process to guide our relationships, too arbitrate our differences, and too allow us an oppertunity plan our actions somewhat into the near future. The LAW does that. We need to get into the habit of including the relevant legislation when dealing with a particular issue. Case in point. Cecil McCarthy, suggested some changes to the current education act, and while i am not highlighting or agreeing to what he contends are important and needed changes I am however hightlighting his approach to making changes to laws. Breaking them, ignoring them, for whatever reason should not be encouraged.
J // December 8, 2008 at 5:48 PM
Dear Me:
The answer is yes, for more than a decade. It has been a most rewarding experience. Just about the best thing I have ever done in my life.
I enjoy taking of children, mine and other people’s and it does not matter whether they are newborns or teenagers.
J // December 8, 2008 at 5:50 PM
The secret is never to thinkof them as “other people’s children”
Always think of them as God’s children.
Children of the KING.
Then yo will feel honoured to have the opportunity to serve the King by taking care of his children.
Bush Tea // December 8, 2008 at 11:11 PM
@Adrian Hinds
***********************************
Bush Tea I hope you understand that my frequenting Holmes bar wasn’t about de hamcutters. If I remember correctly, there were a bunch nice looking girls living upstairs.
************************************
But looka my crosses here nuh… Adrian you now let down the side REAL bad. Wuh- you REALLY think any of the fellows used to go there for the hamcutters? or to put money in the juke box? but skipper, Let’s keep that between us OK?
You wrong about the law thing too… but I am sure that you know that.
The Scout // December 9, 2008 at 5:02 PM
J
Obviously, you can’t read or you just wickedly misinperpreted what I wrote. I SAID THAT AT MY CHILDREN’S AGE I WAS NOT AS PERFECT AS THEY APPEAR TO BE SO I’M LOOKING FOR THE BAD PART OF THEM. I’wouldn’t fool you that I have saints but I know they and their freinds are very respectful in our presence but I’ve never caught them otherwise. I’ve LONG pass the “drifting stage”, I’m now enjoying my senior years with a wife I had from age 15 yrs and I’m still enjoying her presence, her warmth and above all her LOVE. A great love we have for each other. We made an oath “until death, us do part and I hope that parting is a long way off or that we go together.
Not in school, but still learning // December 12, 2008 at 9:34 PM
I think the Minister’s comments were right on. I’ve always heard that principals need to get permission from the Minister of Education or an appropriate “deputy” before students are dismissed before the end of the school day.
I agree that there are other ways of disciplining students for certain infringements other than sending them home.
Maybe the Minister could have adressed the matter in another forum, but then how many parents would have known that their children are possibly being put at risk “illegally” because they broke the school rules and the Ministry of Education’s rules?
One could even ask if the Ministry has a “book of punishment” which can be referred to in case their rules are violated.
ROK // December 12, 2008 at 11:55 PM
Not in school, but still learning
I am not sure that a principal is acting illegally by sending a student home. What constitutes ill-discipline or injury? From my viewpoint, anything; even words said.
If the Minister wants it to be the way he says, then he has to get Parliament to change the legislation. The Principals will not give in that easily and the unions are another matter to deal with. An employer has a duty to run an establishment within the scope of law and order; provide safe environment, etc. There is no doubt that the Principal has to do what has to be done to maintain discipline; otherwise the risk of losing many more children would be very high.
Really, when all is said and done, if anything happens, the bill will be at the Ministry where the ultimate responsibility lies and the Principal will still be within his/her right.
ed // May 22, 2009 at 5:49 PM
Minister Jones should be fired from the Ministry of Education. His poor pronunciation is a bad example for the people of Barbados, especially the students. He continues to say- bofe, dat, dem, tirty tree, tousand, poorgram, youfe, tank, tings, tink etc.