Submitted by The Scout
Quite recently, the then Foreign Affairs The Hon. Chis Sinckler signed an agreement to retain the death sentence in Barbados, However, we have all come to realize that this is just a formality, since any attempt at carrying out that sentence is blocked even if it meant convening a court session in the middle of the night. All kinds of arguments about human rights are brought up by the Caribbean and the World human rights association/societies.
At present, we have a number of murderers in prison, some who are still eligible to be hung, yet it seems we’re purposely waiting for the time to expire just to keep them at the expense of the taxpayers of this country. While we in Barbados who are members of the CCJ are reluctant in carrying out the death sentence, St.Kitts, a member of the British Privy Council, at 8.A.M today 19th December 2008, hung a man who two years ago murdered his wife.
Will this hanging open the door to such executions in Barbados?
With so many murders being committed in our neighbouring countries and the influx of all kinds of people into Barbados, we need to send a strong message to those who think they can come here and get off easily. I urge the powers that be to take another look at not just retaining the death sentence but for heinous crimes implement such.
174 responses so far ↓
Permres // December 19, 2008 at 7:39 PM
Capital punishment, and, although not on the same abhorrent levels, corporal punishment, are relics from the past. All civilised societies will ultimately reject them. God bless.
JC // December 19, 2008 at 7:39 PM
You know although I have read Sir Errol Walton’s Speech printed below a million times ….. I still get goose pimples WOW!
Bush Tea // December 19, 2008 at 8:03 PM
@Scout,
It does please Bush Tea’s heart to read your posts -and to remember why Barbados continues to be the best place on earth – no matter how much we get worked up about those problems that we certainly have.
You have ‘common sense’!!
You will never know how blessed you (and a number of other Bajans) are.
For example, you are dead right about hanging…. and immediately, one ‘permanent resident’ comes on talking about ‘civilized countries’ who no longer ‘do that’ or even have corporal punishment.
…No they don’t have these things, they have school massacres, universal drug culture, and huge prisons that create a subculture of violence and vice that is unimaginable.
What civilized what?!?
One has to be a complete idiot, or apparently, to be from the ‘developed’ world not to see the folly in their ‘enlightened’ position.
The truth is that capitol/corporal punishment is NOT about deterring crime, nor about retribution either… It is intended to emphasise to everyone, exactly how SERIOUS the community is about certain types of crime.
In the case of murder, capital punishment is intended to say ‘We hold life so DEARLY, that this society will go to the EXTREME step of taking your own life -should you dare to take an innocent life.’
permres and his lot has upgraded that to now say ‘never mind if you take an innocent life – or even many, We have no real strong feelings about it – at least not strong enough to take yours- but we have to do SOMETHING, so go to jail where you now have nothing more to lose -and see how many guards and other prisoners you can terrorize….
…and we wonder why these ‘advanced’ countries will all implode in the next 18 months????
David // December 19, 2008 at 9:45 PM
Could this be a reaction to the murders in Antigua earlier this year? If so expect more in the EC. Those countries stick together.
The Scout // December 19, 2008 at 9:51 PM
Permres
People like you would argue about not implementing the death penalty until a close family or relative of yours is murdered. Then you would want to be the executioner. the victim’s family/relatives bear so much trauma for so many years while the murderer live in prison eating and causing havoc in jail.i was told a condemned murderer once bodyslam a prison officer on the yard one day. When they tried him he told the magistrate, he soory the officer didn’t die. He condemn already, they can’t kill him twice.
The Scout // December 19, 2008 at 9:55 PM
If consecutive governments don’t plan to carry out the death sentence, why keep it on the statute books and constantly renew it.They are playing with the intellegence of the Barbadian electorate.
Anonymous // December 19, 2008 at 11:12 PM
wish they would hang here too
Carson C. Cadogan // December 19, 2008 at 11:28 PM
I will always have grave doubts about capital punishment here in Barbados.
Are all the death row inmates in Barbados black males?
Are there any inmates on death row in Barbados white? If not not why not? Don’t white people kill other people? Or just not in Barbadso?
Are they any inmates on death row in Barbados who are Indian? If not why not? Don’t Indians kill other people? Or just not in Barbados?
Are they any Oriental inmates on death row in Barbados? If not why not Don’t Orientals kill people? Or just not in Barbados?
I find this to be very troubling. Over the past decades there are a number of unsolved murders here in Barbados. Why are they cases still unsolved? Could it be that the fingers started to point to killers of different races other than black people and money and/or influence came into play and investigations come to an abrupt end? We all remember the famous canefield murders.
It is a little hard to believe that only black males kill people in Barbados.
sonofdsoil // December 19, 2008 at 11:55 PM
@ Carson
Why is it so hard to believe? With 95% black, the probability is that within that majority the few that will do something abhorant will be more than those within the minority . However, while I can appreciate your rhetorical question, we must not fail to realise that those who do commit these henious crimes do not consider that there are consequences for their actions because we as a society do not demand that there should be consequences for deviance.
Why should we all live behind bars for the sake of safety?
Technician // December 20, 2008 at 1:06 AM
CCC is such an ass !!
Negroman // December 20, 2008 at 3:31 AM
Carson
Your points are very well made.Why are Black Barbadians seeking the blood of other Black Barbadians.I do not support criminal activity nor murder.However,I am a strong defender of not supporting capital punishment.State sanctions executions are murder.Therefore 2 wrongs cannot make it right.Murder is unfortunate.There is no conclusive evidence that the implementation of capital punishment has any impact on murder in any society.It is not a deterrent.
Carson,You remember the case where 2 Indians school girls were poisoned at Breakfast in Belleville in the late 1980’s because both of them were dating & having sex with Black men.Did the perpetrators of that crime ever brought to justice?
There is the famous case where a white bank manager murdered his wife and the poor Black gardener man was hanged for that murder.Subsequent events showed that the husband murdered his wife and he even boasted about it.Was that white bank manager ever brought to justice?
The death penalty is barbaric,inhumane & anti-life.It should be abolish in Barbados.
Capital punishment a deterrent? // December 20, 2008 at 5:03 AM
The slogan “There is no proof that capital punshiment is a deterrent to murder” is grounded and nurtured in folly.
This is a ploy of those not in favour of the death penalty to confuse and deliberately mistake the reason for capital punshiment.
THE DEATH PENALTY WAS INSTITUTED AS PUNISHMENT FOR THE CRIME OF MURDER!
Also, resorting to race is illogical and smacks of shalowness of
understanding.
The fact that people are able to escape punishment for crimes they committed is not soely related to race. It is also rooted in variables such as: Social class, wealth and – lodge connections
Facts – and those are facts!
Capital punishment a deterrent? // December 20, 2008 at 5:07 AM
Facts-”…confuse and deliberately mistake..” Should be “misstate”
Capital punishment a deterrent? // December 20, 2008 at 5:14 AM
Negroman,
“…two wrongs don’t make a right…”
———————————————-
Who is the judge of capital punishment not being right?
Capital punishment is the penalty for the crime committed. And this punishment should be reserved for all, regardless of race, who perpetuate the crime.
I have a project for all those who are not in favour of the death penalty: Please research the growing trend of persons who served time for murder and ascertain how many committed murder again.
You will find the results surprising.
Facts
BWWR // December 20, 2008 at 5:36 AM
My view is personal. So death penalty supporters and non-supporters for racial reasons or whatever, please note I am allowed to hold that opinion.
I am completely opposed to the death penalty. It is a soft option for governments, instead of the hard option, which is working on the society itself.
There are, of course, a lot of other reasons I am opposed, but this is such an emotional issue in our country and those of us who are against know why, as do those who are for. There are arguments on both sides all sound and we can argue into the next decade and beyond and it is unlikely that any one of us will change anybody’s minds. It is an extremely personal issue, as supporting (or not) of the taking of a life in cold blood (or any blood) ought to be.
I am against the death penalty and I support Amnesty International on that. However, I would not have a problem with the return of the cat.
The Scout // December 20, 2008 at 6:07 AM
All you people who oppose the death sentence will only do that until a close relative of family member is murdered. Then you would want to be the executioner. Why should we be feeding a bunch of murderers who has no right to life anymore. Yet we go to war and kill innocent people in the name of “country,” is this right? I hear the story of a condemned murderer in Barbados who body slamed a prison officer and at his trial told the magistrate he’s soory the officer isn’t dead . His reason is that he is already comdemned to die and they can’t kill him twice.Comdemned murderers are the worse people to deal with and our prison has quite a few that just ruling things in jail.
Adrian Loveridge // December 20, 2008 at 6:14 AM
‘An appeal that was filed in a St. Kitts court on Laplace’s behalf was dismissed in October because his lawyers missed a deadline, Douglas (Prime Minister) said’
Mike Melia – Associated Press – 20 December 2008
Anonymous // December 20, 2008 at 8:29 AM
@ Scout
Wha sorta christian you is dat believe in hanging people?
And for your information, people are hanged not “hung.”
Wunna is one backward set o people, wunna like hanging, beating school children, wunna hate foreigners and de list goes on.
Does hanging another human being seem humane to you?
Ah, you are a self-proclaimed christian right?
Then we should bring back the roman practice and nail them to a cross in de middle o broad street so people like you can pass and spit pon dem.
Ya idiot!
Yardbroom // December 20, 2008 at 8:44 AM
In my youth I was against capital punishment and with age my position has become entrenched.
In some jurisdictions a head lopped off to roll on the hard baked earth I find abhorrent, my abhorrence is not diminished because this activity – Government sanctioned killing – is carried out in the spartan surroundings of an air conditioned room.
This is a challenging issue in which one struggles to hold a position in the face of heinous crimes and brutality committed on a mass scale. When I am asked why should tax payers foot the bill for a lifetime incarceration for murderers. I simply say that is the price – a heavy one – “society” has to pay. When the follow up question is suppose one of my relatives was murdered, how would I feel? That is an emotional argument, to be a judge or magistrate one has to be “fair” that often means being dispassionate. For that reason judges and magistrates should not sit on cases when they have a connection.
I fully understand the other side of the argument, I do not say they are “wrong” my position is clear in my head – theirs no doubt is – and one that I can live with regardless of the circumstances.
Juris // December 20, 2008 at 8:49 AM
Negroman, BWWR, I agree with you. Capital punishment is a relic of a misguided era and is only carried out by the most intellectually and socially backward jurisdictions in the world, including some in the USA.
@ Scout, Sinckler did not sign any agreement to continue the death penalty in Barbados, it has always been on the books, but it is inconsistent with treaties we have signed. And St Kitts is not a MEMBER of the Privy Council, it’s just their and the OECS’ final court of Appeal in preference to the CCJ.
Micro Mock Engineer // December 20, 2008 at 8:54 AM
If religious bias is removed from the debate, it is difficult for any rational person who examines all the available statistics and information on the subject to support the death penalty.
Personally, this is one occasion where my religious and empirical investigations are in complete concurrence. I oppose the death penalty.
… but just to give a quick example of how emotion often overtakes ‘common sense’ take this submission above:
“No they {referring to ‘civilized countries’} don’t have these things, they have school massacres, universal drug culture, and huge prisons that create a subculture of violence and vice that is unimaginable”… the facts are that the countries who best fit this description are those with the HIGHEST rate of death penalty executions.
Here are the top five death penalty executors last year:
1. China
2. Iran
3. Saudi Arabia
4. Pakistan
5. USA
Combined these 5 countries account for around 90% of the world’s annual executions… I know… the 5 countries you would most like to live in :-)
Carson C. Cadogan // December 20, 2008 at 9:22 AM
sonofdsoil
“Why is it so hard to believe? With 95% black”
Let’s take America for instance, blacks are in the monority, yet 95% of death row inamtes are black.
The Devil // December 20, 2008 at 9:25 AM
MME
such use of statistics make me feel warm all over (but given where the Devil comes from that’s no biggie…). Why not try correlating the countries with the highest murder rate (i.e per head of population) and their non application of the death penalty? Colombia, South Africa and that gem of the Caribbean Jamaica all figure prominently … places I’m sure you would most like to live in.
Anonymous // December 20, 2008 at 9:26 AM
We dont need the death penalty.
There is no punishment harsher than 23 hours of solitary confinement for the life.
Carson C. Cadogan // December 20, 2008 at 9:32 AM
NEGROMAN
I am remember both cases well and I feel fairly sure that these cases are not the only ones.
Like you I abhor murder, but I still wonder how many black males have been dispatched to the great beyond for murders that they did not commit.
Many black men have been realeased in America from death row for murders that they did not commit. This is in a country where they have the most advanced methods of crime detection and yet they get it wrong.
What about Barbados where sloppy police work is the norm.
Anonymous // December 20, 2008 at 9:34 AM
Who said that Jamaica, South Africa and Colombia dont have the death penalty?
Wha ya does call dah? That’s an unofficial death penalty whereby a vigilante system emerges in the absence of a proper state-run judicial system.
It’s called natural justice.
Therein lies my point. Who needs the death penalty? Let natural justice prevail.
BAFBFP // December 20, 2008 at 9:39 AM
Bushman yah wrong this time, dead wrong. As a result yah got ta deal with MME on your own.
As per BWWR Capital Punishment is a soft option for governments.
Loveman, the man gets hanged because “his lawyers missed a deadline”. In Trinidad a man was hanged (the last of nine) after a prosecutor withheld evidence that would prove his innocence. No one is charged for such actions.
Scoute Ya (Christian) idiot!
If my child was murdered I would want to seek revenge on the public servants/officials and media people who are paid large salaries to educate/enlighten and protect the population; who have chosen to take on the responsibility to create the policies and environment to ensure that we are all safe and free to prosper. With so much blame to go around how could you chose one person only as the fall guy?
Duppy Lizard // December 20, 2008 at 9:41 AM
Oh me oh my! The topic of capital punishment is introduced and right on cue race enters the equation. Fellow bloggers, this is not about race – it is about the breakdown of society and the disrespect shown by some.
In order for a society to function you must have rules. If those rules are broken there has to be a consequence.
Anonymous // December 20, 2008 at 9:44 AM
The problem with capital punishment is that the state can make a mistake. It’s better for the state not to hang a single person than to make a single mistake.
The Devil // December 20, 2008 at 9:58 AM
I have conflicting views on this issue on the death penalty as well as corporal punishment. That said, one of the more insightful comments on this thread has been made by BWWR who wrote:
“I am completely opposed to the death penalty. It is a soft option for governments, instead of the hard option, which is working on the society itself.”
I would only point out that governments come from society not the other way around.
and a further poke at MME; reference to religious (instincts?) or investigations comes with a high probability of getting the wrong result.
On superficial investigation it appears that those countries that are the least murderous are the least religious.
Carson C. Cadogan // December 20, 2008 at 9:59 AM
“If those rules are broken there has to be a consequence”
How come only black people face the consequences?
Bush Tea // December 20, 2008 at 10:18 AM
@BAFBFP
I have been known to be wrong before – last documented case was in 1977. But in this case I am absolutely right.
When you get women (or effeminate men) making decisions that should be made by leaders (real men) you can depend on emotional, ‘feel good’ decisions – But the RESULTS always tell the tale….
As I said, Capital punishment was NEVER intended as ‘retribution’ or as a deterrent to murder. It is a basic ground rule that sets the standard of the value of life in the society.
If you wish to lower that standard – fine, but the expected results should be obvious.
Similarly with corporal punishment. Obviously a good parent should NEVER hit a child. but we MUST have an absolute standard and limits which MUST be delineated with meaningful consequences that ARE applied when needed.
Let us look at how nature works – various actions result in appropriate consequences -whether the sissies among us think that these consequences are ‘fair’ or not….
This is the price of having an ordered society. We all always want to have the positive benefits without having ‘paid the price’, but in the end- we ALWAYS pay.
..and it explains why so many of our ‘advanced’ societies are so disorderly.
@MME, your analysis is fatally flawed. The murder vs hanging relationship is a complex relationship that depends on many other variables. Certainly Muslim and communist countries introduce many other complex factors……
…long and short, if you want peace, aim for justice.
Anonymous // December 20, 2008 at 10:34 AM
To take Bushtea’s argument to it’s logical conclusion, then we should mimic Saudi Arabia. It’s all manmade law.
To take your argument to its logical conclusion, we should chop off a hand if caught stealing, chop off a dick for rape, poke out an eye for looking at porn (porn illegal too), cut out a tongue for abusive language, stone a woman for adultery and beat little children into submission for being rude.
Duppy Lizard // December 20, 2008 at 10:53 AM
Dear Mr Cadogan: Your comments are your perceptions, perceptions based on myths and half truths. It serves no purpose other than to reinforce your preconceptions of what it means to be black or white.
BAFBFP // December 20, 2008 at 10:56 AM
Bushman
Anon says it perfectly “It’s all manmade law”
Who determines justice? It’s all manmade justice.
And the biggest problem with manmade anything that goes beyond manmade errors, is manmade prejudice and manmade abuse of power.
I would love to hear the Rt Exec. Georgie (first do no harm) Porgy weighing in on this.
permres // December 20, 2008 at 11:13 AM
I apologize if it seemed I was inferring that Barbados was less than civilised. It is the barbaric relic of capital punishment which is uncivilised, and many countries and USA states still retain it, as has now been pointed out.
Of course, the other social ills mentioned above are also uncivilised, and I did say *ultimately* a civilised society will abolish capital punishment; as well these other ills.
Bush Tea // December 20, 2008 at 11:19 AM
@BAFBFP
Therein lies the problem. You think that this is some ‘man made law’. If it was, then I would not be arguing with you – not even with Carson….
In fact, this is one of those irrevocable spiritual truths…. somewhat like the one which says that you ‘will reap what you sow’.
I really do not feel the need to try to change opinions here, but if anonymous wants to ‘take my argument to its logical conclusion’ why not speculate what the RESULTS would be if we demonstrated that we were serious about the rules of society…
When I was a teenager, I went through the stage where I felt the need to challenge my father’s right to set the rules in my house. The immediate ‘cut-ass’ that I got left no doubt in my mind how the organisational structure at home was set up.
…had he ‘banned me from TV for a couple days’ or ’scolded me’, he would have been dethroned within months…. but then again my old man was a REAL man.
Anonymous // December 20, 2008 at 11:42 AM
So let’s follow bush tea’s logic.
Bush tea’s father beat him so logically all fathers should beat.
That form of punishment worked for bush tea, so logically it will work for all and sundry.
If bush tea was given an alternative punishment like being banned from tv he would have rebelled and overthrown his father, ergo, all teenagers who are given similar punishments will overthrow their parents.
Very sound logic.
David // December 20, 2008 at 11:53 AM
Mostly we agree with Bush tea’s position and this time is no exception. To Anonymous we say some things must be done for the public good. When the judicial process is exhausted the society should accept that the result is correct, the fact that a minority of decisions are sometimes shown to be wrong MUST not remove from the public good of having rules and laws which demonstrate societal standards.
Why is it that we create armies to protect our borders and civil liberties at large with the knowledge people will die in the name of being patriotic, however we are reluctant to do the same in the name of deleting humans, a minority who will cause society untold harm.
Humans form governments and fallibilism therefore is present. After we rant with our dogma induced positions we have to settle that we don’t live in a perfect world and we have to do our best to ensure that the integrity of our communities are protected using our best judgement.
Technician // December 20, 2008 at 11:56 AM
….. Capital punishment was NEVER intended as ‘retribution’ or as a deterrent to murder. It is a basic ground rule that sets the standard of the value of life in the society………..
Why so many people seem to miss this point…really?
Bush Tea // December 20, 2008 at 12:25 PM
Well David, you do know that there are some of us who do not believe in having soldiers to protect us either…. since it may involve killing or being killed. They feel that we could find alternative means of defending ourselves – like conferences and meetings….or non-violent protests…
This is all very well- except for the REALITY that there are some wicked persons out there who could, and WOULD, destroy all that we stand for, while we delve in our sissy emotional fancies.
…so again we have another ground rule which says ‘we hold our society and way of life so dearly, that we are prepared to die to defend it’. Not that we like war and killing… but that we SO respect and love our society…..
This is why it takes MEN to provide good leadership.
There is a sissy way that sounds good, and seems right, but the end thereof is the way of death….
Bush Tea // December 20, 2008 at 12:39 PM
@Anonymous
No disrespect, but I find it very hard to debate with you because quite frankly, I fail to understand what you are trying to say.
I never said that because my father disciplined me in a particular way that everyone must be disciplined in that way…… or even that that was his regular way of discipline.
The only deduction you can logically draw from my example is that had that OPTION not been open my my father- in my particular case- he could well have ended up with a messed up family.
Every one of his seven children are model citizens with model families- (even the Bush man, LOL,) and he probably used corporal punishment no more than 6 times total. However we hardly ever had any doubts about his willingness to bring it on….
His only inconsistency was that, in the case of his daughters, the threat of corporal (and even capital) punishment was towards anyone who would dare mess with them…
David // December 20, 2008 at 12:54 PM
The Scout touched on the issue of time being allowed to expire which results in convicts escaping the noose. We suspect he is referring to Pratt and Morgan ruling.
To the legal eagles on BU is it a reasonable argument to say that the judicial system is currently being manipulated?
BAFBFP // December 20, 2008 at 1:10 PM
Bushman,
Then who determines who should be slapped around the head and who should be refused TV privileges for the same offence.
Let’s leap ahead here and ask who judges the judges, who polices the police, who acts as oversight for the fair play committees and boards?
Sorry Bushman, I can’t argue spirituality with you. This part of the world is too imperfect to bring that level of appreciation into the campaign.
Judges are chosen by Presidents and Prime Ministers who themselves are chosen by simple first past the post majorities. The same “leaders” decide that there is need for an army and that army should be paid for by tax payers to be sent into battle. But in defence of whom or whose interests?
David, change sides while you still can.
Bush Tea // December 20, 2008 at 1:37 PM
@BAFBFP
What change what side what?!?
Leave David alone for me please – he safe…
Those are excellent questions BAFBFP -and you are coming to the really critical issues.
i.e. not whether or not we should have limits on social behaviour, but who and how these should be judged and applied.
I take it that you are agreeing with David and I that we cannot solve the problem by removing (or making useless) the rules of society.
IMHO, we are all responsible for doing our personal best to give justice at whatever level we operate. In short, it is just as critical that a clerk in a little shop is upright, honest and just in his or her doings as it is for a high court judge.
Granted the consequence of injustice in these examples are very different. (but so are the levels of responsibility, the privileges and the rewards.)
But to make a long story short, LEADERS must be held responsible for those under their charge dispensing JUSTICE fairly and to the best of their ability.
The supervisor, the Manager and ultimately the top honcho takes on this duty….
This is why the role of leadership is critical. If there is no justice there will be no peace….. and where there is no vision, the people will suffer….
…that is why DT should chastise and FIRE any minister guilty of bribery, fraud or such illegal activities…
Anonymous // December 20, 2008 at 2:25 PM
@ David and Bushtea
“Humans form governments and fallibilism therefore is present. After we rant with our dogma induced positions we have to settle that we don’t live in a perfect world and we have to do our best to ensure that the integrity of our communities are protected using our best judgement.”
*************************************
I couldnt let dis one pass!
Are you saying that ranting and raving about a dogma induced position that supports capital punishment is better than ranting and raving about another dogma induced position that does not support it? (smile)
The debate always has to return to the philosophical question about the “right to life.” (Damn, I cant believe that I agreeing with Yardbroom on anything!)
Anyways, if we accept that life is precious and respect its sanctity, then we will not and cannot support morally or philosophically the following:
abortion; any form of capital punishment; euthanasia; murder or any act that takes away life from a fellow human being.
Herein lies the philosophical paradox. Liberals will support abortion and advocate against capital punishment!
We must be consistent in our philosophical positions. When the state commits capital punishment on our behalf, we’re all partaking in murder, either by the complicity of our silence or by our verbal support for popping someone’s neck.
I dont wanna tek up too much space but just to let bushtea know it’s not grammatically correct to say “I take it that you are agreeing with David and I.”
I could leh dah one pass either. Maybe his father should have cut his ass to study grammar. After the preposition you have to say “with me” not “with I.” The old technique they taught us was to substitute and see if um correct.
“David and I” = 1st person plural = we”
BAFBFP // December 20, 2008 at 2:40 PM
Presidents Manuel Noriega and Sadam Hussein were brought to justice by “MEN dispensing justice fairly and to the best of their ability”. Both went before a jury (now the question what really is a peer/) One was put in jail and the other cast to his enemies and reportedly hanged. Justice Bushman, for whom? You kill my child as Man I should reserve the right to act on my sentiment that the very society that “sets the limits to social behaviour” has failed me, me, one of its members.. Hanging the perpetrator would not in anyway respond to my grievance. I would want real heads to roll. Do you feel me my friend?
BAFBFP // December 20, 2008 at 2:43 PM
Anonymous
I am a PROGRESSIVE not a Liberal. That term is now dead. Leave it there
Juris // December 20, 2008 at 3:11 PM
I am not sure what you mean by manipulation of the judicial system, David. The burden is on the state to expedite the process…it would seem that St Kitts did it in 2 years in this case, although I don’t understand how the right to life could depend on the late filing of a document.
Yardbroom // December 20, 2008 at 3:32 PM
@Anoymous
I am sitting here quietly…and you throwing licks at me!
Anonymous // December 20, 2008 at 3:36 PM
Hahahahahaha, yardbroom! I aint throwing you nuh licks for once!
Negroman // December 20, 2008 at 3:45 PM
In all issues affecting mankind ethnicity plays a critical role in the degree of justice meted out.
There are many a case in the USA where black men & boys met their demise in very controversial circumstances.
A black 14 year boy went to the gas chamber because he was looking after his animals on a pasture when a white man raped a little white girl and that poor little black boy paid the ultimate price for being in the wrong place at the wrong time.Another case of recent vintage occurred when a deranged white woman killed her children and put the blame on a black man.There are so many numerous cases to mention where a lot of non-white people died for crimes they did not commit Many a black person suffered that fate during the horrors of slavery.As a matter of fact black life were of little or no value that games were played with the life of African black people.That is how the game of Polo came about.When the white plantation owners wanted a little fun & excitement.They dug holes and buried African slaves to their shoulders only exposing the African slaves heads.Those bastards then got on the horses with their clubs and rode and lashed the heads of the African slaves until theheads fell off.That is the origins of Polo.Now we have a bunch of black jokers playing and following such a wicked a game such as Polo.The word Picnic also came about when whites were also having their fun when a slave life was about to expire.It was a big party where the whites would put on the best clothing,packed their baskets with food & drink,dance & have a good time when black slaves were being murdered
All conscious black people do not support Polo and drop the word (picnic) from your vocabulary.The word “PICNIC” is an ACRONYM for pick a nigger.
On the international scene Saddam Hussein was hanged for his so-called crimes against humanity but the many European despots like former Serbian leader I do know how to spell his name is still alive today.He was responsible for the ethnic cleansing that occurred in the for Yugoslavia.
Capital Punishment is wrong.
Adrian Loveridge // December 20, 2008 at 3:55 PM
Juris,
My point exactly.
If the man had a better lawyer, would he still be alive now?
Juris // December 20, 2008 at 3:55 PM
Hahahaha…you kill me, Negroman. Picnic is actually a French word and polo is a game invented to mimic the old jousts fought by knights. Where did you get your information?
Juris // December 20, 2008 at 4:07 PM
AL, I wonder about this. Even if the lawyer missed a deadline, what about appeals to the Privy Council on that very point, the IACHR on the death penalty?
BAFBFP // December 20, 2008 at 4:08 PM
Bushman
I want to be clear. I am not speaking about a right to life, this is about shirking responsibility. “we are all responsible for doing our personal best to give justice at whatever level we operate” ensuring that as parents our charges are brought up in a healthy VIOLENT FREE invironment; ensuring as media operators that our youth are not exposed to obscene and violent influences, and that our population is exposed to untainted facts about events around us; ensuring as educators that children/adults are taught to think as opposed to follow (God, Queen, Country); ensuring as law enforcement that prejudice in no way affects the process to be executed; as political leaders allowing for the selection of those who pass judgement to be done by a non-partisan ‘qualified’ grouping; ensuring as Senators that laws are passed on merit and not on expedience and so on.
Juris // December 20, 2008 at 4:14 PM
MY bad, BU. St Kitts is not a signatory to the Convention, which probably means that 5 year peiod should have been reduced.
Carson C. Cadogan // December 20, 2008 at 4:26 PM
BUSHTEA
“somewhat like the one which says that you ‘will reap what you sow’.”
Judging from the numbers incarcerated in Barbados, it would seem that only black people in Barbados reap what they sow.
Recently two white men beat the crap out of a black boy, what happen to them? Did they reap what they sow?
Micro Mock Engineer // December 20, 2008 at 4:29 PM
“Devil in the Details” I fraid you more than I fraid the real devil, however my use of those statistics was simply to show the illogic of this statement: “No they don’t have these things, they have school massacres, universal drug culture, and huge prisons that create a subculture of violence and vice that is unimaginable”. The fact that countries don’t apply the death penalty has ABSOUTELY no correlation with school massacres, drug culture or subcultures of violence and vice. That was just a baseless emotional argument… don’t you agree?
Devil, I surprise you got time to bother wid my foolish opinions anyway, seeing that we are smack dab in the middle of your favorite and busiest season… de financial crisis affecting your business too?
Bush tea, which part of my above argument is flawed? You like you been out drinking Doorly’s wid Straight talk yuh. :-) Look, when you see BWWR, Negroman, Yardbroom and BAFBFP all on the same side watch yuhself yuh.
David and Bush Tea, you both have way too much faith in Governments and judicial systems. When governments around the world demonstrate that they are capable of applying justice fairly to ALL, irrespective of race, ethnicity, religion, political affiliation, level of wealth etc. then you can come again with your argument to grant them the power to execute their citizens.
Georgie Porgie // December 20, 2008 at 6:11 PM
MME
I promised you the link to my favorite online commentary since September.
Here it is
http://www.soniclight.com/constable/notes.htm
Bush Tea // December 20, 2008 at 6:18 PM
@Micro Mock Engineer /BAFBFP
Try to follow me here… I am NOT saying that the present system is great or even fair, in fact Bush Tea is a constant complainer… so the point is NOT about governments around the world showing that they can dispense justice…
The question is ‘what is the best approach for us to take in seeking to create a just, peaceful society.’
Now, the other thing is that none of us are perfect, so we are talking about best efforts here. Somewhat like due diligence.
It seems to me that your alternative is to ‘forget the rules since they are being applied incorrectly /unfairly/ unevenly etc.’
However when there are no rules and boundaries, we get chaos. Children grow up confused, angry and reckless. They are unpractised in self-control and you end up with much more serious types of crime and attitudes to deal with among teens and adults.
From this analysis, we have identified two different ways to achieve a chaotic society…
1- by dropping the rules altogether and having a jungle approach
2 -by having the rules, but applying them unfairly/ unevenly/ unjustly
I suggest that the answer is to fix No. 2 and NOT to opt for 1.
@anonymous
Thanks for the English lesson. Noted! I will also try to stop using ‘wunna’, and putting so many dots after sentences….
Anonymous // December 20, 2008 at 6:21 PM
@ Bush tea
I deliberately use wunna and dialect so dat nobody can accuse me of bad english but if ya wanna use english, use um correctly dot dot dot!
Straight talk // December 20, 2008 at 6:45 PM
Hey BT: keep the dots….. it maintains the spontaniety of your post.
In fact it is almost too dashed conversational.
Micro Mock Engineer // December 20, 2008 at 6:50 PM
@GP: Thanks for the link… I thought you had given up on me. :-)
@David: “Why is it that we create armies to protect our borders and civil liberties at large with the knowledge people will die in the name of being patriotic, however we are reluctant to do the same in the name of deleting humans, a minority who will cause society untold harm.”
David, I support the idea of dying or killing to protect ones borders and civil liberties from invaders intent on harming you… that is analogous to your home being invaded by an intruder that threatens your life. This is very different to killing as a deterrent to others who might want to try… that is analogous to the preemptive-strike doctrine made famous by Bush tea’s namesake.
@Bush tea: I agree with your conclusion that we not opt for option 1 , and work at continuously improving option 2. All I am saying is that our fallibility must factor into the punishments we mete out. MMEs have not yet proven themselves competent enough to impose irreversible sentences… leave that out until you become registered in phase 2. :-)
PiedPiper // December 20, 2008 at 6:52 PM
Juris, with all due respect, Polo originated in Mongolia, whose people were some of the best horsemen in the world
David // December 20, 2008 at 7:05 PM
Our little research shows that capital punishment was simply used to fit certain types of crime. This issue is one which can find good debate on both sides of the issue. The BU household like many sees this as an ethical and utilitarian matter. We respect the opposite views expressed :-)
BAFBFP // December 20, 2008 at 7:29 PM
Bushman
1- by dropping the rules altogether and having a jungle approach
2 -by having the rules, but applying them unfairly/ unevenly/ unjustly
3 -by changing the rules to exclude the death penalty and have lawyers on both sides accountable for shoddy work (with holding evidence, filing late, incompetance etc.). In fact allow the jury to field at least one question during the process.
I will opt for 3.
BAFBFP // December 20, 2008 at 7:37 PM
You know Bush man if you have spent time in jail then to be found innocent at a later date, you should be compensated adequately as well. This will also put pressure on those involved in the process to get it right or pay a price in the future. I am sure that you are aware that a judge is considered to be the twelfth man on the team by members of the bar?
Georgie Porgie // December 20, 2008 at 7:50 PM
MME
Re … I thought you had given up on me. :-)
How can I give up on an engineer who can get into the intracies of apoptosis LOL
Bonny Peppa // December 20, 2008 at 7:58 PM
If it is proven beyond a shadow of a doubt, that you committed a murder, you should be hanged. You think that Winston Hall and his counterparts shouldn’t have hanged? I believe that if you do the crime, be prepared to accept the punishment in accordance. How many people hang wrongfully. Wunna only talking shite to consolidate the argument against hanging. I remember David Simmons promised the electorate that if he win his seat that he would ‘hang ‘em high’. Not a boy ain’ hang under his tenure. Gimme a break. All of a sudden , Pratt & Morgan was a stumbling block in his way. Wunna full a um.
Carson C. Cadogan // December 20, 2008 at 8:26 PM
BONNY PEPPA
Suppose the next boy to get hang is your son.
Afterwards it is discovered that he was innocent.
What would you say then?
Juris // December 20, 2008 at 8:28 PM
So, Bonny, are you allowed to appeal the judgment?
Bonny Peppa // December 20, 2008 at 8:36 PM
Carson C.
Did I stammer just now? I don’t think so. Why if it it my son that committed the crime my views should change? Because it is my son? I don’t think so. You do the crime, you do the time. My sons know where I stand already on lawlessness. I always tell them anytime either of them is caught trafficking drugs or getting involved in robbery and they are caught, by law, they will be permitted to make one phone call. I always advise them not to waste the opportunity calling HOME. I mean it. I don’t condone nonsense boy. So I don’t know why you think that my opinion would change about hanging because it is one of my sons. I would be sorry as shite fa he but he got to pay whatever the price. It would hurt as a parent but not for very long. DOAN CALL HOME.
Carson C. Cadogan // December 20, 2008 at 8:43 PM
BONNY PEPPA
You did not read what I wrote properly. Look at it again.
Juris // December 20, 2008 at 8:46 PM
And you have not answered my question!
Bonny Peppa // December 20, 2008 at 8:52 PM
Juris,
Season’s greetings to ya good self. Pleezed to meets ya.
I want to make it emphatically clear to all n’ sundry:
IF IT IS PROVEN BEYOND A SHADOW OF A DOUBT, that you are the one, then, POPS,ya neck gone .
I remember a good few years ago these two men had an altercation at a dance in Jackmans, I think, and one of them left the dance, went home for dynamite and come back and ‘blow-up’ the other man’s house. You know who died in that incident? NOt the fella that he had the fracas with. The innocent father of the fella who was no way involved in the quarrel. I knew a sister personally and years after it happened, she would still cry when she recalled the horrific way her elderly dad died. Now the ‘killer’ is asking to be reprieved cause he believes that he is repentant and also that he is holier now than de Pope. Gimme a break. Can the old gentleman have his life back? He took a life and now wants to hold on to his dearly. Change shite. Hang de bitches man.
BAFBFP // December 20, 2008 at 9:04 PM
Bonni
How many Judges would be quick to pass the death penalty (in Barbados they really have no choice for murder) if they had as part of their responsibility, to hang the condemned people? How many prosecuters would be as zealous if they had to pull the lever? How many Governors Generals would refuse to pardon if they were required to play executioner as well?
J // December 20, 2008 at 9:14 PM
1. It was not a PUBLIC execution.
2. And unfortunately it is unlikely to reduce the murder rate.
Anybody remember when Trinidad hanged 9 people in one week about a decade ago and people rejoiced and expected that Trinidad would be safer because the bad guys had been hanged.
Instead the murder rate in Trinidad keeps going UP, and UP and UP.
Unfortunately hanging does NOT reduce the muder rate.
J // December 20, 2008 at 9:17 PM
Negroman wrote “The death penalty is barbaric,inhumane & anti-life.It should be abolish in Barbados.”
I ALWAYS disagree with Negroman.
But this time he is right.
Bonny Peppa // December 20, 2008 at 9:26 PM
BAFBFP
My main squeeze BAFBFP, you ‘if-ing’ ta much fa me bosey. If shit had wings you know wah would happen? We would be in syrus troubl ’bout hay.
We gun agree to disagree pun dis whun but de luff still day. I comin’ fa piece a de ol ham ya got in de larda and a slice a de great cake. If ya got any jug-jug, ya cud toss in piece fa good measure too, once it doan taste like my neighba whun. Lord have mercy. She should be sentenced to death fa persecuting jug-jug so. Ya bad.
J // December 20, 2008 at 9:35 PM
Bush Tea wrote “When I was a teenager, I went through the stage where I felt the need to challenge my father’s right to set the rules in my house. ”
BT You were a naughty boy then???
My parents did not administer many lashes.
The rule was that if you do not like you did not like the parental rules then you were free to live elsewhere, and when you go to live elsewhere do NOT come back.
So very little violence was used in my father’ shouse and very little has been used in mine. Yet we managed to raise well disciplined men and women.
It worked for my father’s children, and it has worked for mine.
J // December 20, 2008 at 9:53 PM
Bobby Peppa wrote “How many people hang wrongfully”
Dear Bonny Peppa: Even if only ONE person has been hanged wrongfully, then that ONE is too many.
How would you like if the ONE hanged wrongfully was your favourite son?
Bonny Peppa // December 20, 2008 at 9:59 PM
J,
Lemme tell ya sumting Plum puddin’. I was raised with many, many siblings. Too many to count on both hands. I was about the third last and I telling you, licks was de order of the day. Ya either hear or feel. I raised my sons wid real licks too unlike my siblings who spared the rod far too often. Today my sons are doing okay and I can’t say the same for my siblings offspring. So the argument can go both ways Honeycomb. I believe in lashing children not brutalising them but giving them a good whipping when necessary. I am doing the same with my grands too. You disobey granny, you will meet my friend and your enemy, the belt.
You say unfortunately, hanging does not reduce the murder rate. I agree but it sure reduces the murderers. Hanging is not a deterrent. It is the punishment for murder. Those 9 would never get the opportunity to kill again.
I passin’ fa piece a putten fa de holidays.
I
Bonny Peppa // December 20, 2008 at 10:06 PM
J,
Bonnie in got na ‘favrit’ sons. I got two sons. I don’t fava one over the other. I got a favrit gran. De res’ doan kno’ doe.
I repeating myself too much on this one. If you are PROVEN guilty beyond a shadow………..you suffer the consequences.
The Scout // December 20, 2008 at 10:11 PM
There are certain laws in Barbados and as a citizen you need to know about them. The traffic law states that if you exceed 30 M.P.H on an ordinary road you can be reported for speeding. Therefore if you speed and is caught and the magistrate fines you $ 500.00, why complain? Similarly, the law states that if you deliberately kill someone the penalty is death, why should anyone complain? There are laws to any country, if you don’t want to do the time, don’t do the time. In some eastern block countries, you can’t even hiss at a woman or you would get charged and punished. I bet none of you would go there and try that. Therefore you know if you kill purposely you will be hanged, then just don’t do it.
The Scout // December 20, 2008 at 10:15 PM
Mr sincklar didn’t sign the death treaty but quite recently at a conference he stated that Barbados still retains the penalty and will continue to do so. The Barbados government will have to decide what they really want. If they think it should be abolish, well, come out and say so and put the nescessary amendment in place. Failing to do that implement the stated judgement when needed
J // December 20, 2008 at 10:21 PM
But Bonny juges are human, juries are human. Judges and juries have been know to make mistakes.
Alright not your favourite son. My favourite innocent son, wrongfully executed.
What then???
The Scout // December 20, 2008 at 10:22 PM
Bonny peppa
I too have a son, if he in defence of himself kills someone, I would go to the end to support him. However if he stupidly gets himself in trouble, God knows, I would cry long long tears for him but he has to face the judgement. God knows it would hurt me to the core but wha. I know of a man who signed the back of his retirement cheque to save his son from jail after the boy had stolen a lot of money and splurged with it. The old man died almost penniless and the same boy did little for that man after he got off.
Juris // December 20, 2008 at 10:22 PM
Scout, it is one thing to impose the death penalty; another to carry it out, You see, the convicted man is able to use the law to help him escape the noose. All perfectly legal.
Bonny Peppa // December 20, 2008 at 10:23 PM
Sir Scout,
Cheers mi amiga.
I passin’ by you an’ we gine get drunk wid a bottle a NON-alcoholic wine man caws I don’ understan’ dese peoples a ‘tall. Kill and thou shalt be killen, kill and thou shalt be killen. It’s as simple as that. You kill willfully, you shall be killen likewise. (‘bring dah neck hay’)
The Scout // December 20, 2008 at 10:26 PM
Juris
Same thing with speeding, some people speed and get away, some speed and get caught. That does not change the law. ya do the crime,if ya get caught, ya do the time,if that is the penalty given.SIMPLE.
Bush Tea // December 20, 2008 at 10:29 PM
@J
“BT You were a naughty boy then???”
….now too!!
The Scout // December 20, 2008 at 10:29 PM
Don’t tell about being Christian, the five foolish virgins did nothing wrong except run out of oil for their lamps and they were banished. Ya do the crime, ya do the time, ya pay the penatly SIMPLE.
The Scout // December 20, 2008 at 10:31 PM
Bush Tea
Confession time? There is a bit of naughtiness in the best of us.
Juris // December 20, 2008 at 10:35 PM
Your analogy is misplaced Scout. You are caught and sentenced like the speeder. But then begins another legal battle; to carry out the sentence. The convicted man does not just sit there and let them hang him. He fights with all the law at his command.
The Scout // December 20, 2008 at 10:53 PM
Juris
So what, that’s his right but when ALL his rights are exhausted and he still guilty BREK HE NECK. The person he deliberately killed didn’t have that RIGHT. He is fortunate, but ya guilty DEAD.
Bonny Peppa // December 20, 2008 at 10:56 PM
J,
Let’s turn around the question. Your son is brutally murdered and the killer is proven guilty of murder on all counts. What should be his punishment? What would you like to see done to him?
Do you know that some of these murderers are as cold and callous as death itself. Some of them show no remorse or mercy. Jail time is cakes to them and your son is gone forever.
Juris // December 20, 2008 at 10:59 PM
Agreed. Once all his rights are exhausted. But nowadays, included in those rights are an appeal to the IACHR which does not favour hanging, and an appeal to the Privy Council which insists that all appeals be heard in 5 years!
The Scout // December 20, 2008 at 11:01 PM
Bonny Peppa
J would be at Dodds twice a day with Proppa pork fa he and try to rehabilitate he.
To ALL THOSE AGAINST HANGING
ST Vincent will very soon hang the man that severed his girlfriend’s head in the van stand in the presence of many commuters. TEK DA. One more, Wanna getting freighten or wha?
The Scout // December 20, 2008 at 11:04 PM
Because, he woman left he, he decide no other man can’t get she, so he bait she and caught she in the van stand, drag she outta the van and cut off she head and pelt it in the drain. You will tell me he should live. Hanging is too humane for him.
Bush Tea // December 20, 2008 at 11:08 PM
@Scout
Maybe we should start a national register where all those against hanging can sign up their names.
If anyone ever kills one of them or their family, that signature will excuse the killer from the death sentence.
…for the rest of us, we with Bonny Peppa…
The Scout // December 20, 2008 at 11:12 PM
Bush Tea
We want two registers, we want the one for people like me who would want to pull the lever if somebody murder one of my childern or my wife deliberately.
Bonny Peppa // December 20, 2008 at 11:15 PM
J
Now that Scout mention that incident in St. Vincent, what you think should happen to that fella? A case like that I would refer to as an open and shut case.Hang he.
One of my sons is in a position to interact with these murderers in the law courts and that is why I can tell you that these criminals show little or no remorse. He is dumbfounded at times when some of them escape the hangman’s noose. My question though is, why condemn a man to hang when no one is ever hanged in B/dos? You could help me Scout?
The Scout // December 20, 2008 at 11:16 PM
This is one thing that might or can stop me from going to Heaven. I would PERSONNALLY KILL that person if through some foolish law that person gets off. I believe in the old adege “It’s better to be tried by twelve than borne by six.” I would have to beg God to forgive me if I was wrong.
Bonny Peppa // December 20, 2008 at 11:27 PM
Bush Tea,
Greetings for de holidays to ya good self. Ya gine in de Park Christmas mornin’ and show-off de garbs?
Wah kind a bush tea you is doe? Lemme tell ya sumting, I hope you ain’ de ones dat does taste like bitta-gawl.
I got my fountain pen hay reddy to sign dah regista boy. Pass by me wid um when ya reddy, hear? ( a gun keep a cold beer in de freeza fa ya)
Bush Tea // December 20, 2008 at 11:38 PM
It is interesting to hear bloggers who value life so much that they would allow persons like this to murder innocent people and not be required to pay the appropriate price…
Bush Tea values life so much that such animals who commit such crimes should pay the ultimate price – to demonstrate how valuable life is.
The problem with the first scenario is that the the innocent life taken by murder has been devalued by the lacklustre penalty.
It says that we are not serious. There are many people who have no problem with prison – it may even be an improvement on their ‘outside’ existence. Do such persons then have license to kill?
Bush Tea // December 20, 2008 at 11:46 PM
@Bonny Peppa
I don’t wake up so early to make the Christmas morning thing, plus i’m not really a Christmas person myself. But that Bonny Beer sound real good.
I am the kind of Bush Tea that is good for all ailments….could be a bit hard to swallow sometimes though…
Micro Mock Engineer // December 21, 2008 at 12:27 AM
Maybe you’re right Bush tea. Maybe there are some people who are beyond the redemptive and transformative power of BBE… I’m sure Ms. Devil would agree with you on that one LOL. Don’t lock dem up, string dem up… the best way to demonstrate how valuable life is, is to take a life in retribution. ROFL
BAFBFP // December 21, 2008 at 2:13 AM
Bush man ignoring me. So I loss this one then.
I can’ deal wid Bonny or Scout ‘ cause, cause … I can’ deal wid dem on this one. Ga long and keep yah turkey dis year cause I ain’ sharing mine.
Faget de national register, we all know wah dat would prove.
BWWR // December 21, 2008 at 6:21 AM
The Scout // December 20, 2008 at 6:07 am
“All you people who oppose the death sentence will only do that until a close relative of family member is murdered. Then you would want to be the executioner.”
Do you really think that in our decision to oppose the death penalty those of us who oppose have not considered what we would feel if a relative or family member or anyone close was murdered? Do you really think we are that stupid? And what in Hades gives you the idea that some of us opponents of the death penalty have NOT had someone close murdered?
Don’t assume. In that lies the same room for error as in executing an innocent person.
Juris // December 21, 2008 at 9:56 AM
Bush Tea,
Exactly what teachings of the Saviour do you adhere to?
Bush Tea // December 21, 2008 at 10:27 AM
@BWWR
I have nothing but admiration for your emotional ‘goody-two-shoe-ness’, and I have no doubt that you are genuine.
The REALITY of life on this earth however is one of cold logic and the unrelenting spiritual and physical laws of nature.
It is one matter to have strong convictions at the personal level, that is fine – but at the ORGANISATIONAL level, where we have to cater for ALL TYPES of persons, with all types of personalities and leanings, it is VITAL for the good of the group,that there are GROUP RULES.
Any group that defines its rules to suit only its goody two shoes (GTS) -when it also includes degenerates and louts in its membership is therefore setting the stage for its own demise.
Its like having one of your sons as an alcoholic and the ‘house rule’ allowing free access to all sorts of liquor in the home. Such a rule is fine with Miss GTS, but would be a poor family rule.
As to the finality of the death sentence, we should put this in perspective… We ALL will die. Innocent people die everyday -just from breathing in a stray virus, eating some junk or being hit by a vehicle-or stray bullet fired by a friendly murderer. Then they are accidents, heart attacks etc etc…and yes, some murderers -after extensive trial, may be put to death in keeping with the societies strong stand on taking innocent life.
Truth is, life is not so much about being ‘alive’ – but much more about HOW you live and HOW you die.
Indeed I would think that there are some things for which we would willingly give OUR lives…reflect on what LOVE really is….
…otherwise we should reconsider the value of our current lives.
Anyone therefore, who maliciously and with prior thought, takes the life of another should have done unto him/her, what he was prepared to do unto another…. Society owes that to him/her….out of love.
Bush Tea // December 21, 2008 at 10:28 AM
@ Juris
Those that he ACTUALLY preached – all!!
Bush Tea // December 21, 2008 at 10:35 AM
@BAFBFP
How am I ignoring you? I must have missed something.
Anon // December 21, 2008 at 10:41 AM
Unfortunately hanging does NOT reduce the muder rate.
……………………………………………………………….
It does not increase it either. I support capital punishment. The viscious killers who take peoples lives ought to know before they commit the crime they will be put to death.
I have noticed a change in how the police reveal statistics. Before they informed of all crimes eg burglary, gun related offences, rape, murder etc. Nowadays we are never informed of murder stats. I sense and the Commissioner asserts we have lowest murder rate in region. But where are the specifics? We as citizens should know the number in order to work towards reducing murders to none at all.
I read St.Kitts recorded 22 murders this year which is extremely high for a tiny island with less than 40, 000 population. St. Lucia recorded 30 plus. ditto St. Vincent. Trinidad has gone past 530. These are frightening stats but we dont know the figure for our own island. Why Commissioner?
BAFBFP // December 21, 2008 at 10:51 AM
Anon
Yah know who want killing? The people that sending back (repatriating?) people who learned they craft in the “deveped societies” and are returned to their place of birth without warning or good cause.
BAFBFP // December 21, 2008 at 10:55 AM
Bushman you miss a whole lot. I responded to you the best I could and gun leave it at that. Truth is yeah, this is one topic that I would love to change someone’s opion on, cause I right, and de Negro, and BWWR and J and CCC and halfa MME and de Judge.
Georgie Porgie (first do no harm mixup with old Testament) very quiet.
Micro Mock Engineer // December 21, 2008 at 11:12 AM
Bush tea,
No one is disputing the fact that GROUP RULES are VITAL. And nobody has recommended rules to suit only goody two shoes (GTS). Life in prison is both the pragmatic and moral solution. It is more pragmatic for several reasons, not least of which is the observation that it generally costs society less to lock someone up for a life of hard labour than to give them that “extensive trial” associated with a death sentence… lawyers like BWWR and death sentence cases cost several times more than prison guards and administration :-). Moral, on the basis that only BBE is competent to administer irrevocable sentences.
The analogy of an alcoholic in the home is a very bad one. What you are ACTUALLY advocating is not analogous to locking the liquor-cabinet, but keeping it open and killing the alcoholic son.
Carson C. Cadogan // December 21, 2008 at 11:38 AM
BUSH TEA
You know that hanging rules do not apply to Whites, Indians and Orientals in Barbados.
I refuse to sacrefice my black people.
I am not Bonny Peppa.
David // December 21, 2008 at 11:58 AM
A good example of why we hold the Utilitarian view is supported by the case of Caylee Anthony in the USA. A little girl who disappeared but unfortunately her remains were found buried recently.
How does a society at the time feel about the murder and more importantly treating with the murderer?
What is the state of mind of the PEOPLE at the time of the incident.
We can look at the numbers, we can look at the sanctity of life, we can look at all the logical arguments.
What matters is how does the society as a majority on that ethical continuum feel about that person who murdered a 3 year old.
Bush Tea // December 21, 2008 at 12:22 PM
Man MME, What life in prison what?!?
Ok… suppose that Bush Tea had listened to you and gone and invest my Georgie Bundle is those shares that you liked….
…and now when I take a stock, the Bush Man ain’t worth grass…
House get tek way… Wife gone long… girlfriend gone too… nothing to eat…
… Wuh MME, prison look like sugar to a man like that.
You mean I now got a free license? … weh you living MME????….
For some of us in the group, prison don’t mean squat… QED, for them taking a LIFE ain’t mean squat…
what kind of group rule is that?
Facts // December 21, 2008 at 12:36 PM
Yes, it may be true that some were hanged innocently, when evidence later revealed they were not guilty.
This is sad. It however, shows that the Judicial system is not perfect (Juris, I’m sure you’ll agree).
However, this should not discredit the system, which is man-made and prone to loop holes.
What about those (and there are numerous cases) who willfully murder and escape punishment by having a good lawyer who is skillful in finding weaknesses in the case?
What about those with the “right connections” who manipulate the system?
I have a friend from a developed far eastern democratic country who recently told me that their crime rate is in the 0 percentage figures. Why? Tough laws on crime. Murder is actually unknown.
Capital punishment is penalty for the crime.
What rre you saying, Bust Tea? // December 21, 2008 at 12:39 PM
Bush Tea,
Are you speaking in codes? Can’t understand what you are talking about.
JC // December 21, 2008 at 12:48 PM
Negroman please inform these people that words are introduced into people’s vocab and have differnet meanings altogether! And that is a linguistic fact!
Bush Tea // December 21, 2008 at 12:56 PM
@CarsonCC
What you mean is that the system is unfair, unbalanced and biased against blacks. You may well be right, but the solution is to fix THAT problem- not to dump the baby with the dirty water.
@What are you saying, Bush Tea?
You are probably right too. It is a long story. MME understands. Maybe we should be more general if we are conversing publicly like this…sorry.
JC // December 21, 2008 at 12:58 PM
The word ‘abstract’ in I think it is in St. Kitts (can’t remember) or one of the Caribbean countries ……. means something totally differnent I think it is a peice of jewllery!
Now @ Bush Tea ….. you said
If you want peace strife for justice ….
No truer words have been spoken.
@ CC
You said
Recently two white men beat the crap out of a black boy, what happen to them? Did they reap what they sow?
———————————————–
I asked this very same question, no one answered. However, I KNOW that if one of my friends from on the block was wrongfully charged, and was hanged; how many people would be bold enough to kick up pist about it and demand and get JUSTICE! ……
No one!
I understand how persons would feel if their loved one had been brutally killed by someone however, it seems so inhumane! It does not make sense …… Try to make society better bottom line!
Bush Tea // December 21, 2008 at 1:05 PM
@Micro Mock Engineer
I think that I will refrain from debating with you until after the season. The way that you are deliberately abusing my analogies leads me to believe that I am arguing with ‘Cockspur’ or ‘Old Gold’…LOL
Micro Mock Engineer // December 21, 2008 at 1:29 PM
LOL BT… if I knew you were taking my stock advice seriously I would have kept updating it regularly for your benefit :-)
That Cockspur/Old Gold remark derail my train of thought LOL… you looking through my monitor or wuh? Yuh right about abusing your analogy though :-)
“Prison like sugar to a man like that” LOL… you mean the kinda prison we got bout hey. To use your line of argument, if we have a concern about the way the prison is run, we should fix it, not kill the convicted in order to bypass the ‘problem’. Think about it BT, with all your knowledge about the ‘Master Plan’, you really feel that giving someone prior notice of their ‘final hour’ is worse punishment (or better retribution) than a life of hard labour?
The Scout // December 21, 2008 at 2:23 PM
Read in one of the news papers today that both Antigua and Jamaica are considering starting back hanging too.As i posted before St.Vincent is seriously considering hanging that guy who severed his former girlfried’s head sometime early in the new year.
my Bible tells me render unto the government what is theirs and render unto God what is his. The death penalty is a govenmental law and MUST be upheld.
BAFBFP // December 21, 2008 at 2:25 PM
David // December 21, 2008 at 11:58 am
Sorry I don’t believe in majority opinions as relevant. It’s an easy way to make a decision but a horible way as witnessed in every singly democracy in history.
BAFBFP // December 21, 2008 at 2:27 PM
If the Bushman would rather play with MME that’s fine.
Earth to Georgie Porgie, Earth to Georgie Porgie, come in please…
The Scout // December 21, 2008 at 2:31 PM
Come on, you tell me you and a person had a disagreement and he went home carefully plan your murder and then executed it. Why should he not lose his life too? Funny thing these guys then fight hard to live. It doesn’t make sense to me and it’s making a mockery of the system. The victim also had a RIGHT to life that was taken from him by the murderer,therefore HIS RIGHT to live automaticaslly should be also taken from him on summary conviction.When you were planning the murder, these thing should have been taken into consideration.
Yardbroom // December 21, 2008 at 3:33 PM
It is undoubtedly true that in some jurisdictions black people have been executed unfairly, capital punishment or not cannot put this right…it was other issues at fault in those jurisdictions.
The enormity of a crime should not sway a decision on legalised state killing, in taking a decision on a matter like state killing, the decision must be taken on the basis of whatever the crime, however heinous or whatever the magnitude of it legalised state killing “will not ” be considered.
If you believe in the “sanctity of life” as I do, then that sanctity does not “disintergrate” because it is the life of another person whose actions have been heinous.
I will not try to adopt a position of moral superiority on this issue, because there are people whose morality is not in question who take an opposing view.
One must be comfortable in any decision to take a human life, some find that decision easier than others. There are a few things so precious that “I” hesitate at the taking of them…life is supreme in that regard.
I could not ask others to take such an action in my name when I would hesitate to comply.
Bush Tea // December 21, 2008 at 3:53 PM
“I could not ask others to take such an action in my name when I would hesitate to comply.”…yardbroom.
Every day, we require of our policemen, soldiers, doctors, para medics, firemen, and others, to make life and death decisions on a routine basis. In many cases they have to make split second decisions of life and death….
…and we here talking about not dealing with tried, convicted, appealed murderers -after YEARS of review- (the few that are caught and found guilty and lose appeals…) because of the ’sanctity of life’….
Give me a break yardbroom. you can do better than that.
At least you people must recognize by now, that it is your sissy attitudes that embolden murderers and devalue the lives of innocent victims.
we always get exactly what we deserve.
Yardbroom // December 21, 2008 at 4:15 PM
@ Bush Tea
“Every day, we require of our policemen, soldiers, doctors para medics, firemen, and others, to take life and death decisions on a routine basis. In many cases they have to make split second decisions on life and death”
Of the above I have done a few of them and done them without hesitation. I have looked down the barrel of a gun before, but it is through that experience from which I have gained “inner strength.” I have no reason to prove how “manly “I am with the life of others, some might disagree. I think no less of them for it, true strength is in the “mind”.
The Scout // December 21, 2008 at 4:39 PM
Yardbroom
If you were faced in a situation with another person and it was a case of you taking his/her life or that person taking yours. What would you do?
Gear Box // December 21, 2008 at 4:40 PM
Pop deh necks as long as I or non ah de Judges or lawyers or Senators or politicians don’ have to be de executioner or got tah watch it happen….
AAAAAAAAAAAghhhhhhhhhhhh
Bush Tea // December 21, 2008 at 5:03 PM
@Yardbroom
It is not a matter of being ‘manly’, it is a case where there is a JOB to be done on behalf of society, and somebody has to do it – or all of us will suffer.
I am sure that many of us can’t even kill a fowl, but expect to eat chicken every day. Similarly, we expect to walk the road in peace and security, without dealing with the issue of the value placed by society on innocent human life.
If as a society, we fail to support our ‘men’ – i.e. those who are brave enough to deal with these roles that NEED to be done, then the society will break down…in nature, only one outcome is sure for a group of sissies…
…If Bush tea is right, we should be seeing a continuing breakdown in law and order in these societies that generally compromise their value of innocent life….despite all the success of the softies and goodie two shoes….
Yardbroom // December 21, 2008 at 6:58 PM
@ Bush Tea
I fail to see the connection of “men” I will let that pass.
When you have been in a situation as I have been to draw live ammunition from the armoury, to sign for it, to have your weapon checked and then to go out knowing that those you are up against are well trained and determined…that is different to talking about it. The “men” I have been with were quiet without any bravura, hoping to return without half of their faces blown off- not a pleasant sight – I have a prety good idea what it means to be manly.
@Scout
The situation you have related I was trained for..I will leave it at that.
Now to the issue:
We have become entrapped in a vortex and with every revolution of it we are convinced that we are right. In our efforts to secure victory we ratchet up the psychological pressure, suppose your wife is murdered? suppose your daughter, what then? Convinced in our minds that the opposition will meekly succumb, but alast principled stands are not like that. So we beat our breast and say the opposition is either mad, bad or not manly enough. Whilst in truth they have only taken a principled stand borne of a deep “inner conviction”…that is all.
Bush Tea you also said..”we get what we deserve”..
How true we have convinced ourselves not only in this but in other areas that all politicians are corrupt, crooks and dishonest. So we look for it. Those who are not will join the merry band for that is expected of them and those who do not seek a fortune will not venture forth for to do will mean they are tarnished.
We have lost “faith” to see honesty, to be honest and to inculcate it and expect it of others, a change must come first from ourselves…we “definitely” includes myself.
Gear Box // December 21, 2008 at 8:19 PM
Bush Tea
Would you, you BT, execute a convicted criminal?
If the answer is yes then you’s the kinda simpleton that de state could do without…
AAAAAAAAAAAAghhhhhhhh
Gear Box // December 21, 2008 at 9:58 PM
Real men declare war on other countries and send de sons of poor people off to fight them….
AAAAAAAAAAAAAghhhhhhhhhhhh
J // December 21, 2008 at 10:19 PM
Dear Facts:
You wrote “I have a friend from a developed far eastern democratic country who recently told me that their crime rate is in the 0 percentage figures. Why? Tough laws on crime. Murder is actually unknown.”
1. That person is NOT your friend, because friends do not lie to us and do not expect us to believe their lies.
2. Mention the name of that murderless paradise on earth nuh?
A ‘friend’ from Bahrain told me once too that NOBODY in Bahrain commits fornication nor adultery. What she did not know was at the time my sister was living in Saudi Arabia ( a nurse) the very heart of Islam, and she saw the evidence of fornication and adultery every day.
I let the Barahni idiot go ‘long. I can’t bear to argue with idiots.
J // December 21, 2008 at 10:22 PM
I wonder though if the Bahrani woman could explain the existence on clinics in Sweden and other Europen countries which specilize in surgically “re-storing” virginity.
She really think that poor black women from Barbados go to those expensive northern Europenn clinics to have their virginity restored?
Bonny Peppa // December 21, 2008 at 11:53 PM
Carson C .
According to J, it is too near to christmas to call you an idiot so I gun jus’ call you a goat. De rope, pasture, everything.
You think that the judicial system we have is prejudice? Juman went to prison for killing he wife. He is un-black, I think.
Merry Christmas anyway.
The Scout // December 22, 2008 at 12:24 AM
Yardbroom
You still didn’t answer my question, what you did was dance around it beautifully like the rest of you softies would have done.
However, we can discuss this for the rest of the year and well into the new year and we would still have differing opinions, therefore, let’s agreee to disagree and I sincerely hope NO-ONe interferes with you or your family/relatives/close friends to cause any of you to change your mind. Have a GOOD Christmas and do but please don’t overdo. God Bless. Just remember the true reason of the season
Carson C. Cadogan // December 22, 2008 at 2:25 AM
BONNY PEPPA
“Juman went to prison for killing he wife. He is un-black, I think.”
Juman and how many more of his or other races?
Carson C. Cadogan // December 22, 2008 at 2:35 AM
BONNY PEPPA
As a matter of fact go back the last forty five years and name another from any other racial group than Juman.
Gear Box // December 22, 2008 at 4:16 AM
A white boy, a teller get trow in jail faj teafing ten years ago
AAAAAAAAAAAAghhhhhhhhh
BWWR // December 22, 2008 at 5:27 AM
Bush Tea // December 21, 2008 at 10:27 am . Your views and convictions (and I do not mean criminal) are your own. I could go into a long explanation of mine and the REALITY of those views, and it isn’t goody two shoes, but as very real social conscience on my part and a desire to see our society improve, not regress.
To convict a person of murder depends on two main factors. First, there is the act itself, called the “actus reus” and second, there is the state of mine, called the “mens rea” or “malice aforethought”. If you cannot prove the second, you have manslaughter, not murder. There is also the question of the mental capacity of the person committing the actus reus. That is determined by a set of rules (updated from time to time) called the McNaughton Rules of 1832. These rules do not really keep any kind of pace with the advances in psychiatry.
That aside, I grew up in a time when the death penalty was not only on the books, but practiced. Practiced in most cases. Of course, the appeal process was far shorter and usually there was no appeal. 21 days after sentence, the convicted person was hanged.
Hanging itself is a brutal way to go. It is not only brutal on the person hanged, who can, with a broken neck and with urine and feces running down their bodies, hang for as much as 3 minutes (provided the neck is broken, which is by no means always the case) conscious. During the executions following the Nurenburg trials, one of the executed did not have his neck broken and suffered for 20 minutes at the end of the rope. Executions are hard and cause untold mental problems for all involved, from the death watch officers to the medical people to the priest to the family of the convicted person. Execution does not only end a life, it ruins many others theretofore going on quite nicely. I know. I have witnessed it.
In Barbados, we have no incidents with anyone trying to prove that someone innocent was executed – and maybe before we go signing undertakings to keep the death penalty, we ought to.
In the UK however, there are several such, most notably Derek Bentley, a 19 year-old of “diminished mental capacity” in other words, Derek Bentley was retarded. You see, during World War II the blast from a German bomb caused Derek to fall and hit his head on a pile of rubble causing permanent brain damage. Derek had the mental age of 11 and suffered from epilepsy as a result. He was lured to go on a robbery (without properly understanding what he was doing or that the 17 year old was armed with a gun) by a 17 year old boy. The boy, not Bentley, shot a policeman during the robbery. As the boy was underaged, they could not hang him, so they hung Bentley. The boy who shot the policeman spent 10 years in jail. Now, all these years later, the case has been reexamined and the decision and conduct of the Lord Cheif Justice, Lord Goddard (whom I was presented to here in Barbados when he was staying as the guest of our then Chief Justice, Sir Allan Collymore) has been severely censured for his conduct and misdirection of the case. However, Goddard CJ bowed to political pressure that dictated that someone hang. In 1998, 45 years after Bentley was executed, he was posthumously pardoned. And much good that did him.
Death is very final and for a society to adopt the death penalty is to me in this 21st Century the sure sign of a backward society – and I do not believe that Barbados is that. And later if the person you hanged is found not to have committed the crime, what are you going to do? Do like the Brits and say “SORRY” or “OOPS”?
Given the advances in DNA and criminal investigation generally, I do think that if you were to reinvestigate the cases of people executed over the years in Barbados, you might well find that there are SEVERAL unjust executions.
These days, given the lengthy appeal processes involved, the death sentence can fairly be described as cruel and unusual punishment on that basis of delay alone. Pratt and Morgan goes a ways to rectifying that – BUT NOT FAR ENOUGH!!!
Without in any way seeking to provoke a religeous argument, I refer to two biblical incidents. First, Lot and Co. and second, “Vengeance is mine, sayeth…..”.
Finally, the penultimate English executioner (who carried out executions throughout the Commonwealth also and trained tghe Barbados executioner – and executed Bentley) was named Albert Pierrepoint. In the course of his career, he is reputed to have hanged over 603 people. Here is what he had to say – a man in the front line – about the death penalty:
“I have come to the conclusion that executions solve nothing, and are only an antiquated relic of a primitive desire for revenge which takes the easy way and hands over the responsibility for revenge to other people…The trouble with the death penalty has always been that nobody wanted it for everybody, but everybody differed about who should get off.”
I agree with the executioner and I stabd by my statement that executions are a soft option for governments and that, Bush Tea, is reality.
BAFBFP // December 22, 2008 at 6:45 AM
BWWR
By far and away the most intelligent comment to date on this sordid topic.
Gear Box // December 22, 2008 at 6:47 AM
Death is very final and for a society to adopt the death penalty is to me in this 21st Century the sure sign of a backward society – and I do not believe that Barbados is that.
But it is, this society backward as hell and full ah hypocrites
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAghhhhhhhhh
BWWR // December 22, 2008 at 7:16 AM
BAFBFP // December 22, 2008 at 6:45 am. Thanks. Many years ago, I had to do a lot of soul searching on this issue and I also did a lot of research.
Gear Box // December 22, 2008 at 6:47 am. Difficult and very personal to each individual and most of them spout without actually knowing what they are spouting about. If one is going to take someone’s life away in a cold, judicial manner, then maybe it is a good idea first to know exactly what process is involved.
Bush Tea // December 22, 2008 at 7:37 AM
@ BWWR
I don’t suppose that you ever did any such research into the plight of the victims of murder and of their families….
…or is it OK to just say sorry to them?
Micro Mock Engineer // December 22, 2008 at 8:43 AM
BAFBFP // December 22, 2008 at 6:45 am
BWWR
By far and away the most intelligent comment to date on this sordid topic.
————————————
I agree! Well said BWWR.
BWWR // December 22, 2008 at 9:40 AM
Bush Tea // December 22, 2008 at 7:37 am . Not worthy of you at all, Bush Tea, you are much better than your comment which shows no thought or thoughtfulness – a first (and hopefully last) for you.
Of course I researched the matter from the point of view of the victims and I am neither stupid nor unfeeling. Each of us has to weigh the matter for ourselves and come to our own determination. However, we must look at it from ALL sides and not just make cursory decisions. Most murders are committed in HOT blood, not cold. An execution is carried out in COLD blood. Most murders are committed when someone is under some sort of influence, whether it be drugs, unrequited love or psychological and psyciatric reasons. Executions have none of these mitigating factors. ALSO, as we have seen from the USA recently, many murder convictions have been overturned once reexamined in light of DNA – and the World has not stopped turning, so we can expect even greater scientific and other breat throughs in the years and centuries to come.
Anyway, I said this was a matter of personal conscience. My belief is that executions are barbaric and revenge-motivated and I have a strong personal prejudice against both. And also if there is the SLIGHTEST possibility of an innocent person being put to death, then the death penalty has got to go.
Now, you can preach all you want about victims and their families, but the victim is dead and past all pain and the family is going to have to cope with their pain no matter what and I have found that the best way of doing that is on my knees praying to my creator to give me the strength to follow the teachings of Our Lord when he was unjustly put to death. The other way is revenge that that Lord says is HIS. This is my personal belief. I do not impose it on anyone else, I merely now state it. If I try to folow what I perceive as being what my Creator would wish me to do, I would also NOT want to, under the cover of state-sanctioned murder, involve other people (like warders and doctors and priests and family) in something which does not remove pain, but rather exaccerbates that pain and increases the number of people hurt and adversely affected.
Finally, Bush Tea, you are inexcusably presumptuous in assuming that I myself am not related or was close to the victim or victims of murder (s). You have no idea of what I may or may not have undergone in my thought process to reconcile any loss I may have sustained. If you peronally have suffered through the aftermath of someone close being murdered, then your presumption is mitigated, but not excused. If you have not, how DARE you.
Maybe a little reality on your part would be a good thing.
Anonymous // December 22, 2008 at 9:45 AM
should hang all those convicted of muder here in Barbados too
BAFBFP // December 22, 2008 at 11:02 AM
David I tell yah change sides while you still can…
Final call for Georgie Porgie …
Yardbroom // December 22, 2008 at 11:13 AM
@ The Scout Dec 21, 2008 at 4:39pm
You asked: “If you were faced in a situation with another person and it was a case of you taking his/her life or that person taking yours. What would you do?
You thought I evaded the question…so here goes.
In a situation as you have described perhaps I should say I would blow his/her head off, but that notion is stopped by training. I would aim for the larger body mass and in that mass the heart as I might never get another round off. That is the reality of the situation you have described, and I would not hesitate.
However, that is a different situation from asking the state in my name to carry out legalised executions, but we can as you suggested leave it there.
Have a nice Christmas you and yours and don’t forget to do a little exercise between all this feasting.
May you walk a golden path overarched with peace and tranquillity.
BWWR
A very good exposition, to the point.
Georgie Porgie // December 22, 2008 at 11:20 AM
BAFBFP
I’m listening Sir.
You know already just what I am going to say, and from whence I’m going to quote. So why should I bother?
What I have to say will make no difference.
BAFBFP // December 22, 2008 at 12:07 PM
Man no man Doc, yah gotta say something, hold a side, tek some lashes…!
David
you must have this year a BUDOTY (BU Debater of the year) announcement base on a vote. MME did pun he own fah too long, but now we got a last minuite surge by BWWR, could be close. Wah you say?
Georgie Porgie // December 22, 2008 at 12:43 PM
BAFBFP
I believe in the death penalty on the basis of the scriptural injunctions. I do understand the opinions of those who point out the difficulties and intricacies of deciding whether one is guilty or not. I suppose that is why the original Genesis injunction was slightly modified with the concept of the cities of refuge in Joshia20 etc.
Now I have said something, held a side and will now tek some lashes. Lol.
You know I blog on a medical site and these jokers dont understand the principles you stated. They react negatively to everything that they dont agree with…….they dont think that lashes should be shared, as we Bajans do.
Best wishes for the holidays to all BU participants in 2008. It has been great fun – lashes and all. As man………
Man no man Doc, yah gotta say something, hold a side, tek some lashes…!
The Devil // December 22, 2008 at 2:06 PM
Over the last two years there have been at least two cases in Barbados of repeat killers before the courts. Disconcertingly, they got convicted of manslaughter (again) and may be released in about 12 years time.
If we do not wish to apply the death penalty then please make life imprisonment really mean that… imprisonment for the rest of the killer’s natural life.
But then the bleeding hearts will say that too is cruel and unusual.
Bonny Peppa // December 22, 2008 at 3:01 PM
CarsonC
You like you would just hang a man because of his ethnicity based on your argument. Um doan wuk so CC.
Global Voices Online » Barbados, St. Kitts & Nevis: Murderer Executed // December 22, 2008 at 3:11 PM
[...] bloggers Gallimaufry and Barbados Underground take note of the recent execution of a convicted murderer in St. Kitts. Posted by Janine [...]
BAFBFP // December 22, 2008 at 3:29 PM
Georgie Porgie
Most Doctors I know are egomaniacs. The responses that you would get on the medical blog would therefore not surprise me.
I am glad that you are at least accepting that the determination of guilt is a technical, increasingly scientific process and that the justice systems around the world seem slow in their desire to appreciate and keep abreast of pertinent developments.
But on the subject of “first do no harm”… that’s alright, I’ll soon be cracking my first bottle of wine so in the spirit of things I wish you too and the rest of you the very best for the season and the New Year. (From this I exclude anyone who would refer to people like me as “bleeding hearts”)
Carson C. Cadogan // December 22, 2008 at 7:17 PM
BONNY PEPPA
“You like you would just hang a man because of his ethnicity based on your argument.”
That is what YOU are doing.
Bonny Peppa // December 22, 2008 at 11:38 PM
CarsonC
I rest my case. Have a jolly, merry Christmas.
I gone.
J // December 24, 2008 at 4:29 AM
BWWR wrote “I agree with the executioner and I stabd by my statement that executions are a soft option for governments”
I don’t normally agree with BWWR, but in this instance HE is right.
BWWR // December 24, 2008 at 5:43 AM
J, you really are a complete idiot, whether you agree with me (she and proud of it) or not. If you agree, I may just have to consider that I am completely wrong.
Wuhlahwuhlay // January 3, 2009 at 9:49 PM
opinions are verbal farts my friends. might mean something to you due to the content of your digestion of topic…but it stinks to some, is good for you, and ultimately dissipates into the air, with little memory of it afterwards! if talk was money boy, all a’we would be rolling in the dough!
Rum Pig // January 4, 2009 at 12:00 AM
CARSON CODOGAN
You are a real fool——-with a massive chip on your shoulder. Get over it man–everything is not about black and white.
To answer-your question–no–white people in Bim do not kill each other. They are too smart to SHIT on their own doorstep.
To say that investigations in murder are abandoned because they point to a white man, is utter foolish, uneducated raving by a fool.The investigators are all black in BIM and i am sure that they would love nothing better than to convict a white man.However,they are honest, abiding citizens and that is why they hold such jobs. Thak goodness you are not one of them.You are blinded by hate and jealousy.Get off your ass and do a decent days work–AND__get over it.
Anonymous // January 4, 2009 at 4:07 PM
Rum Pig, Carson has irked you to respond so honestly. Problem with the Carsons of BIM, and the world is, that whereas the rest of the world tries to move forward in a productive, progressive motion, he and they are held back by their own chains that bind them. Black or white… people commit crimes against man. But no, to my knowledge either, there are no whites in Dodds doing time for murder, rape, or other physical hideous crimes. Neither are they Muslims, and I wager abet against any Chinese. If Carson did a little introspection, he would see that the other races in this Island have a mindset of forward motion. Thus the thriving businesses to which they put their hard working hands, they do not sit back and wait to be “unleached” and “freed”. Freedom is in the mind Carson.. definitely get over it. No one owes you, or any other person on this planet a damned thing. You want to bring race into things that clearly simply stem from ignorance. If you don’t like the colour of your skin, and all the negative intonations that it evokes, go hide in a cave, as that is where your mentality clearly lives. ALL of Barbados’s governmental positions are held by intelligent, self-propelled individuals who do not think that they are owed anything but make a difference, and perhaps educate clowns like you to see the light of day….grow up!
Rum Pig // January 5, 2009 at 11:45 PM
Well said Annonymous. There is nothing more restricting than the chains of your mind.
Carson is shackled and the poor bugger cant free himself.Let us pity him
Bonny Peppa // January 7, 2009 at 10:42 PM
Carson C.
Man, Anonymous and Rum Pig, by de way, I love de name Rum Pig, giving you licks like fyah man. Licks well deserved doe. You evva hear dat it is betta ta keep ya mout shut and leh people tink dat ya is a idiot dan to open it an’ prove dem right? Well nex’ time , keep yours zippedddddddddd.