Peter Wickham
Political Scientist and the Caribbean Broadcasting Corporation (CBC) Talk Show Host Peter Wickham continues to display emotional outbursts directed at UWI lecturer Dr. Kean Gibson. We find it strange that Peter Wickham a political scientist who earns his daily bread by performing scientific analysis would depart from his training when dealing with the matter of racism in Guyana and the real possibility that these learned behaviours can be imported into Barbados given the significant number of Guyanese on the island, legal and illegal.
Dr.Gibson’s response to Wickham in yesterday’s Nation newspaper shows that she is very capable of defending her work and reputation. We have to disagree with Dr. Gibson when she opines that there are not enough Indo-Guyanese in Barbados to destabilize Barbados. The exact number of Guyanese resident in Barbados has been a mystery which has straddled two administrations. The closest we have gotten to a figure from an official source was when former Minister Maxine McClean who had responsibility for immigration matters exclaimed that the government’s best estimate is placed at twenty five thousand. The uncertainty in the number exposes our flawed immigration framework which has been a legacy of the former government.
Although the current government has promised a shake-up at the Immigration Department, and we accept that there have been changes, the disclosure of the outcome of a sub-cabinet review on immigration policy promised by Prime Minister David Thompson appears to be long overdue. Wickham is happy to cloud the concerns of many Barbadians by labelling us xenophobic. The issue for BU centres on how learned behaviour moulded in a racially conflicted Guyana could impact on the social landscape of Barbados in years to come given the inflows of large numbers of Guyanese into Barbados.
The recent attack by political analyst Peter Wickham on Dr.Kean Gibson exposes his agenda for all of Barbados to see. The irony for BU remains that the conversation about how learned behaviour moulded in Guyana can impact a stable society which has a majority black host population needs to be escalated to a national level. BU believes that the academic work published by Dr. Gibson titled ‘The Cycle of Racial Oppression in Guyana’ exposes the chasm of racism which the Guyana government, regional media and and general commentators continue to bury their heads in the sand.
It has been voluminously documented the turbulent political history of Guyana. The Jagan era which was pro-Indian and the Burnham era which countered by being pro-Black. The legacy of the two eras haunt Guyana to this day. The result is an incumbent government led by Jagdeo which seems to have surrendered to its legacy by exporting its people to the world with the expectation that foreign remittances will provide a source of foreign exchange.
Even if Dr. Gibson was thought to have taken a position deemed marginal, biased, ignorant or specious on the subject of racism in Guyana, how can we ignore the independent findings contained in a recent United Nations commissioned report on Minority issues in Guyana? The Guyana government of course challenged the report which was prepared by the UN minority expert Gay McDougall. The report in a nutshell fingers the racial divide in Guyana presided over by President Jagdeo. Bare in mind that Blacks and Indians are the two dominant groups in Guyana and technically can’t be described as minority groups. It makes the McDougall report all the more interesting.
Mr. Wickham you are a political scientist by training, yet you use the radio and TV airwaves to pontificate on a multiplicity of issues. To whom much is given much is expected. In your desire to challenge the researched position of Dr. Gibson, a credited academic, your response should equally be researched. The generous airtime you allocate to Guyana Consul Norman Faria and the silent Ricky Sigh on the racial turbulence unfolding in Guyana continues to puncture your credibility on the matter. What we agree on is the need for there to be a national conversation on this issue. Another example of Fourth Estate failing the PEOPLE.
What is your agenda Mr. Wickham?
The dominant groups in Guyana Black and East Indian are MINORITY groups, for neither one of them commands 50% of the national total, one is at 42% give or take a few, and the other 30% of the national population. The UN report is flawed!
It can’t understand why the powers that be are playing around with a given fact. THERE IS GREAT CONFLICT BETWEEN BLACKS AND INDIAN GUYANESE. Everybody who is somebody knows that, by trying to deny this by Wickham and others is only making the situation worse. if that problems continues to exist, it can cause civil unrest in Barbados. What then Mr Wickham are you willing to suggest to the powers that be to order OUR Defence Force to turn their guns on Us the citizens in oeder to protect the guyanese?
There is no greater conflict between Indian and Black in Guyana than say the in Trinidad, Suriname or say whites and blacks in the US or native Indians and whites in Mexico or whites and blacks in Cuba. You have taken this topic totally out of context. And since you believe there is a problem in Guyana, then let me tell you that this problem, this divide that you so wontonly speak about on a daily basis was caused by the late President Burnham, your fellow Barbadian, now I don’t have to go into Guyanese History here with you, you can enroll in a class at UG for that. Mr. Burnham is the root cause with his rigged elections, and totally disregard for the laws of Guyana, and the Guyanese people, fancy a leader winning election after election and the country and standard of living going down the drain, fancy that, and now to add insult to injury you are talking here about mariginalisation and killings of fellow Guyanese. WEe have laws in our land and if you break them you will be metted out punishment, and to have someone come here and say how Minister Rohee is a dougla, we know about Minister Rohee, I know Mother Rohee, and that AFC leader is a black man when in fact he is a mixture of the many groups in Guyana show that all you care about is race, race, race, and nothing more
I just want to say that President Jagdeo is doing an excellent job for Guyana, he single handedly is transforming our country into what it should have been years a ago. Dr. Jagan and the late Mrs. Jagan also did lots for Guyana, in fact the only progress I ever saw in Guyana was when the PPP ruled Guyana. Now where were you when Mr. Burnham was ruling Guyana and hordes of Guyanese were disenfranchised? Where were you all? I see what is going on here, and I don’t like it, you are trying to divide our country, when in fact most of us have relatives of all the ethnic groups in Guyana, so how can you call Guyana a racist place, when people have relatives that are Black, Indian, Amerindian, White or Chinese. I read something where Dr. Gibson said, that some HIndu priest said something bad about black people and that pushed her over the edge. I hope you see it just takes one unkind thing to break a friendship that took a lifetime of many niceties. Build bridges, and let me say you recruited those Guyanese people to come to work in Barbados, in fact it was just last year Guyana TV was running ads for a Barbadian company recruiting in Guyana. The UN report is flawed, Miss McDougal has no clue about Guyana and the dynamics of race in Guyana, they might as well have had asked Dr. Kean to do the study, for one thing she is Guyanese, which is a nice thing. Good Bye.
Anonymous // April 9, 2009 at 6:49 am … you are certainly corrrect re the shenanigans of Burnham, He single handidly destroyed Guyana.
And re the BU statement above “we have to disagree with Dr. Gibson when she opines that there are not enough Indo-Guyanese in Barbados to destabilize Barbados.” What balderdash. The exact problem Barbados has is it’s lack of ethnic diversity.
And at least Mr. Peter is a rational thinking man, rational, everybody can get along, so please Mr. Peter continue to write you wonderful well written articles. By the way look at who is ruling Barbados, Mr, Thompson a man of Guyanese decent, the best journalist in all Barbados BC Pires a man of Guyanese ancestry, the best humanitarian in all the land Auntie Olga Lopes, Hi Auntie Olga lots of love to you gyal. The best ambassador Mr. Norman Faria, the other best journalists Mr. Tony Best thats right and he is Guyanese too, I was wondering where he was, and also Mr. Ricky Singh, so you see you can’t do without Guyanese. Global warming coming, I read that you are a flat country east to west, well you had better pray that global warming stops as the hilly north will not be able to hold 300,000 people.
David/BU Household
You have outdone yourself with that article.
Go to the top of the class.
Now could you please put it at the top of the page where it belongs?We have given enough prominence to the overseas bajan group story which is at the top now.
I want you to pay attention to those first 2 anonymous posts which are identical to someone posting from guyana calling herself/himself sister baby on this blog and on BFP.
We have already been warned by afro guyanese coming on this blog that the jagdeo administration sends out operatives to monitor blogs and to spread his propoganda.
So it is clear what those first 2 posts represent.
Within the last 2 months the Guyana government has moved to shut down the living in guyana blog and to charge the administrators of that blog,because they dare to speak out against the atrocities of the jagdeo government.
Please give this post prominence and keep it up there as long as you can.
It is well written.
Guyanese,especially indo guyanese as well as the other caricom criminal elements in our midst will destabilise this country if we don’t move swiftly to eradicate them.
David thompson is a big,big disappointment.He seems more interested in cosmetic moves and attending reggae shows and not going forward with the People’s Business.
With regards to peter wickham,it is really sad to see how these people who have their narrow misguided objective are giving prominence on the airwaves and in the newspaper to push their agenda.
Yet we see yesterday that the Nation newspaper in the interest of balance did not even put Dr Kean Gibson’s article on the opposite page to wickham’s,so that readers could immediately compare the 2,but instead they push Dr Gibson’s article a couple pages back in the Letters to the Editor section.
There is definitely an agenda afoot to stifle discussion on this issue.
I want to give a big shout out to Yardbroom and Bush Tea who I have not been hearing lately.
I hope you are both well.
@anonymous
If we take your comments to a logical position under PNC or PPP their has been polarization across racial lines.
@anonymous 2
The problem of our overseas friends is importaant not only because of the obvious financial irregularies which we have helped to uncover but the fact that the topic has been bring Barbadians to BU in droves.
Since I sent my post I noticed that the guyanese have come on and try to fill up this blog with multiple propoganda posts.
David I hope you are monitoring this ,because this is not any innocent blogger .we were warned by guyanese before this is a deliberate attempt to skew the discussion and fill it up with garbage so that people will be turned off.
I hope you know what you must do.
ANON 2
Got your response about NABO.
Thanks
I gun tell Pete wunna talking ’bout he…
AAAAAAAghhhhhhhhhhhhh
David
I must congratulate you on your persistent in keeping this immigration issue alive.We must constantly remind our leaders that an effective immigration policy is a top priority for this country.
I am amaze that Indo-Guyanese are constantly blaming Forbes Burnham for the problems of Guyana today.Comrade Forbes Burnham, one of the greatest Black Guyanese ever born modernized Guyana,improved the living standards of Guyanese and at a period of time in Guyana development that country educational system and the country itself were ahead of Barbados.Guyana was the beacon of the Caribbean.The great Forbes Burnham died in 1985 and his party lost power in 1992 and that started the downward slide of Guyana.
The Indian dominated PPP is in powre since 1992 that is about 17 years of rule under that party and at this present time the PPP is still blaming Forbes Burnham for Guyana problems.The PPP had 17 years to correct any wrong doings of Forbes Burnham, but what has it done,practise the politics of racism.The PPP has wrecked Guyana that even their Indian PPP supporters are fleeing in their thousands to get away from that inept,incompetent,corrupt government.
Indo-Guyanese stop blaming Comrade the late great Forbes Burnham for the failed state Guyana is today.It is in that state because of the wicked,corrupt,dishonest ways of the thieving,scheming Indian Guyanese.
Indian Guyanese are the ones that have Guyana in the state it is today and we will not let that happen to Black Barbados
Get out of Barbados.We do not want the Indo-Guyanese human waste in Black Barbados.
Two elections ago, a indo-guyanese that was driving the taxi that they assigned to me told me that he was registered to vote in three regions. Most of the top civil service jobs are held by indo-guyanese. One indo-guyanese once made a remark in a confrontation he had with a black business, “indian rule.” I was in Side Walk Cafe, when a PPP big boy stooogy came outside with a rifle mounted on an open back jeep and demanding Nigel Hughes to remove the chair from next to the road. PPP is a dictatoal party and very currupt too.
The Scout
We Black Barbadians do not really understand the time bomb that is waiting to explode in Barbados with these Indo-Guyanese hum bugs.Scout your personal experiences with that lot should be an insight to the type of discord those human miscreants could unleash on a society.
The recent history of Guyana should be enough evidence for Black Barbadians not to welcome that lot into this country.Indo-Guyanese & rat catcher/mango seller Indians on the whole are a destabilizing force in any society.
Indo_Guyanese should never be welcome into a Black Barbados after the harsh & horrible treatment that awful lot have perpetrated against the helpless Black Guyanese.The UN report indicated that situation.
I still want to hear the views of Peter Wickham & Norma Fari on that said report.
Scout keep on plucking away.We must never give up.
For whatever reason when we saved this blog a couple paragraphs dropped off. We have updated.
The history of Guyana is rich in information. Bare in mind that this is relatively recent history. Here is a snippet of what we mean:
While I do not agree with much of what I have seen here regarding this discussion that could be billed “Wickham v Gibson” I appreciate the fact that the BU family has devoted this much attention to the issue since I do believe that it is an issue that we as Barbadians need to address.
The BU family needs to appreciate that I am not for one moment denying that Guyana had and continues to have a racial problem and I do not think that there are not Indian racists in Guyana and for that matter in Barbados as well. Similarly, I am confident that there are African racists here too and I consider this variety no less offensive, even though I acknowledge that this variety is unlikely to threaten me personally.
I however believe that political racism in both Guyana and Trinidad is a result of their system and we need not assume that the same thing will happen here. I believe that people like Dr. Gibson and the BU family should use their enormous intellects to try to better understand the root causes of the problem and as our society becomes more multi-racial, seek to ensure that we grow together harmoniously.
Regretfully, I see a simplistic approach emerging where we believe the solution is to try to keep out Indo Guyanese since we believe that the very presence of such persons will destabilise our society.
Finally, in response to your moderator’s concern about my “Agenda”, I think that by now the BU family should realise that I am driven by a personal philosophy that rejects discrimination in every single manifestation. Hence you will find a similar perspective emerging from my “pen”, regardless of whether the issue is that of discrimination against Indo Guyanese, Academic Underachievers, Homosexuals or the Economically Disadvantaged. Sadly I frequently find that the BU family, like most of Barbados is much too anxious to discriminate against the foregoing as well as an ever expanding quantity of persons in different categories.
I have always been inspired by a well-known poem by Martin Niemöller entitled “First They Came…” Niemöller was a German Pastor and Intellectual who criticized German intellectuals for their silence during Hitler’s reign. He said:
“When the Nazis came for the communists, I remained silent; I was not a communist. Then they locked up the social democrats, I remained silent; I was not a social democrat. Then they came for the trade unionists, I did not speak out; I was not a trade unionist. Then they came for the Jews, I did not speak out; I was not a Jew. When they came for me, there was no one left to speak out for me”…
The BU family can be assured that unlike Niemöller I will NOT remain silent, so that simply put is MY AGENDA.
@Peter Wickham
You have said a lot and said nothing in our opinion. The problem of Guyana must be addressed at source. As it is the problem of Guyana and racism is being avoided by CARICOM. Yes we have racism in Barbados but never for a moment seek to elevated to par with Guyana. Until we help Guyana to strengthen its political and social infrastructure the problem will promulgate. Home drums beat first Peter and even as we speak it maybe too late given the stress being placed on Barbados’ infrastructure. Let us admit that as a dominant Black host population we have a legitimate fear of how a growing ethic population may change our country. Your willingness to accept that the inevitability of a multiracial society and all that goes with it is unacceptable. There are models out there which suggest that we should tread carefully.
“the exact number of Guyanese resident in Barbados has been a mystery which has straddled two administrations. ”
It’s no mystery.
Immigration knows the name of every single person who enters Barbados. Immigration also know the names of every single person who has left (or not left)
Mystery what.
And in the matter of immigration and racism Peter WIckham is right and Kean Gibson is wrong.
Got to go now to pray for David, the BU family Peter and Kean.
A good Good Friday to you all.
Dear Anonymous you wrote “was caused by the late President Burnham, your fellow Barbadian, ”
Forbes Burnham was NOT a Barbadian. So do not try to blame Guyana’s many racial problems on Barbados and Barbadians.
Guyana’s racial problems ARE CAUSED BY GUYANESE BOTH INDIAN AND BLACK.
BOTH RACIAL GROUPS IN GUYANA HAVE CAUSED PROBLEMS FOR THE OTHER AND FOR THE INDIGENOUS PEOPLE AS WELL.
If Burnham was such a trouble making Bajan how come he caused NO PROBLEMS in Barbados.
Maybe because we in Barbados did not let him. We will not let Guyanese in Barbados black nor indian cause problems in Barbados either.
Once you try to stir up trouble you better go home. And I think that you Anonymous and Kean should be on the first plane out.
David
Be strong.Our Lord was crucified on this day,so who are you mere mortal man?
One day barbadians who listened and learned would be thankful to you for trying to open their eyes.
People like peter wickham and J could only speak glibly and in generalisation about racial conflict in multi racial societies.
They know not of which they speak other than reading a book or talking to indians portraying themselves as the victim,or to sociologist,political scientist and the like spouting their brand of ‘social do’s and don’ts.
I prefer to listen to someone who has passed through the fire and is learned to boot,as in the person of Dr Kean Gibson.
As I said before, first it was the communists, then the Jews… yesterday Gibson was celebrated by some members of the BU family becasue she wants to kick Indo Guyanese out, today family members want to kick her out too
Who next ? My point is made…
Mr Wickham
I winced at your “criticism” of Gibson that since her area of expertise is linguistics then she is unqualified to comment on anything else. This is not to say that her views are correct but the same unfair criticism could be leveled at you in your role of public affairs commentator.
I believe (not know) that most of the protagonists of this debate (re Black Guyanese vs Indo Guyanese etc) are themselves Guyanese with a few Barbadians who may lived for many years outside of Barbados. It is thus my hypothesis that many of the opinions say on BU are not homegrown and do not reflect mainstream Barbadian thinking. That said it may give credence to the view that as more of these persons (specifically Guyanese) reside here, the louder this debate will become and possibly worse in other words transplanted racial tensions.
@David:
You must realize by now that Peter Wickham has little creditability on the Guyanese issue. He first sought to deny us our belief that there are significant racial issues in Guyana. He partially admitted to it in an article dealing with the outcome of Guyana’s most recent national elections, which was at odds with another article he wrote. He now admits there are significant racial issues, but now hinges his name calling on the precarious precipice that there is nothing to fear from the Guyanese population in Barbados. How would he know? In addition, why should we believe him now? He has been wrong so far. No one in their right mind could defend the inconsistencies of Peter Wickham, and he is clearly out in left field on this issue.
Thus far I have written (edited) one book on Regional Integration and several academic articles on issues of regionalism and politics, since those are my areas of specialisation. I do write “popular” articles in other areas where I have an interest, but I am not a specialist. My difficulty with Gibson is that she has presented academic work which attempts to address a socio-political issue while she is a linguist and her skewed logic will be referenced by students who are attempting to support similar points. If she confined her arguments to “popular” media like I do when I am speaking of social issues, I would be less concerned. You will also note that I am quick to distinguish between my OPINIONS and OBJECTIVE OBSERVATIONS. As an example, I do not support the death penalty, however I have demonstrated in my surveys that 80% of Barbadians do. Get my point?
Are you saying that Dr Gibson’s views in her published book are not researched?
So must a linguist only restrict him or herself to the areas they are currently employed in?
By george,I can’t fathom that logic!
@peter wickham
what is really core to your objections to Dr. Gibson’s work? That she is a linquist? or that her “logic” is skewed?
How is her “logic” skewed simply
because she is a Linguist????
First I would like to know what you mean by “logic”?
@Peter Wickham
But who is an expert, someone who can support a body of work by citing researched positions of others? Did Dr.Gibson satisfy this creterion?
Let us forget your fixation with Dr. Gibson for a moment. What is your position about the recent report submitted to the UN by an expert?
Clearly Adrian cannot appreciate the subtle difference between my agreement that Guyana does have a racial problem and my assertion that this problem is not caused by the simple presence of large number of Indo Guyanese. Barbados has 98% literacy; surely we can appreciate the difference between the two arguments. Can I make it any simpler? Yes, Guyana and Trinidad do have racial problems; however these problems are not caused by the mere presence of large numbers of Indos, but by a political system that does not facilitate equal access to political power for both races (all people). The solution therefore is not ethnic cleansing in either Barbados or Guyana, but an appreciation of how important it is to adapt our political system to changing realities.
The irony of this discussion is that everyone knows that Guyana’s political system was constructed by Forbes Burnham who ironically sought to preserve the interests of Afro Guyanese and all then, people like Gibson were silent. (Yes, the Martin Niemöller poem “First They Came…” would be applicable to her). Now she and others like her have fled Guyana and have lots to say now the “shoe is on the other foot”. Perhaps she and Adrian need to start by appreciating the extent of the nonsense that Burnham did to build some credibility instead of assuming he (Burnham) did good since he was looking out for the interest of Black people. Burnham had the opportunity to fix the problem, but he hatched a plan that was conceived in iniquity and born in sin. The inevitable failure of Burnham’s project is reflected in the fact that people like Gibson now speak from the UWI and not UG.
Incidentally thanks Gear Box for drawing this debate to my attention. I would hate it if these comments went unanswered.
Mr Wickham
One of the more cited socio-political commentators is Noam Chomsky of MIT. There are at least 15 books dedicated to criticism of Chomsky’s political views. He is thus hardly seen as someone to ignore. However Chomsky is a renowned linguist and philosopher, professor emeritus at MIT!
I think that bona fide students of sociology, politics will make appropriate references and if not will have to take the consequences of their work being found deficient. Any body of work will have to be judged on the soundness of the evidence presented, the analysis used and the conclusions reached. It should not stand nor fall on the academic qualifications of the author or even past work.
Let’s move on from Dr Gibson. I am curious about the adaptations that would be required to allow equal access to political power by both (or all) races. Can you address this in more specific terms?
Barbados has 98% literacy; surely we can appreciate the difference between the two arguments. Can I make it any simpler?
——————————————
Was that necessary???????
Let the record reflect that Peter Wickham threw the first bumber. I am not one to duck and say come again, not with a bat in my hand. This discussion can stay on the highroad, but I am not afraid to join you on the down low.
———————
What cause the racial divide in Guyana and Barbados should concern other caricom leaders. It should not be of concern to Barbadians, and certainly the practioners of it should not be in a position to affect Barbadians in Barbados. Or is that people immediately put away their practices after landing in a different country? Maybe you would want to suggest that the racial devide is at the political level only.
that should have been Guyana and Trinidad.
Now you see how much peter wickham does not know what he is talking about?
He states that because there is not equal acess by both races to political power there is therefore this racial conflict.
So explain to me Mauritius,Fiji,Britain etc where indians display the same racial hatred and hostility to persons of african descent.
Do they not all have equal acess to power.
The truth is as Dr Kean Gibson so rightly pointed out is that the hatred of persons of african descent by persons of indian descent is rooted in the caste system which originated in the Hindu religion back in India.
So therefore even today you will find indians in India who are black skinned performing the lowliest and diriest task,eg. cleaning faeces,burying the dead,cleaning the streets – they are commonly known as the Dalits,ie the Outcasts – and once born in to that caste that’s where they stay until they die.
Of course under hinduism they believe in reincarnation,so they die with the hope that in the next life they will be bron in a higher caste and perhaps with a lighter skin tone.
You will notice in Guyana and soon here in Barbados that indians will almost worship the caucasian or white person and will gravitate towards them.
It is again the belief that the fair skin is superior.
Therefore when they have to come into contact with persons of african descent who are generally of very dark hue,their cultural and religious upbringing and their feeling of racial superiority comes to the fore; because even though some of these indians may also be of dark skin,to them at least they have straight hair like the white man so they are superior to the person of african descent.
Any indian who desires to be honest will tell you that the fair skinned children in indian families are treated better than the dark skinned ones.
However I digress; it stands to reason therefore that the very same ill treatment of afro guyanese by indo guyanese currently happening in guyana will also take place with afro bajans by indo guyanese soon hoping to be indo bajans.
Indo guyanese will do anything to achieve their desired goal of becoming very wealthy and advancing themselves.
And I mean anything.
So therefore while back in guyana they would never associate and be sexually involved with a person of african descent,now they will pretend to love black bajan men – because these black bajan men are their passports to getting citizenship in barbados and to moving ahead with their lives after they bajan men have served their purpose.
So the indian woman divorces her indian man in guyana – believe it or not – with his consent – and then meets an ignorant black bajan man – pretends to be single – licks his boxy if she has to – gets him to marry her and bam – soon as she gets citizenship – it is ‘hit the road jack and don’t you come back no more’.
The divorced indian husband then comes up from guyana and the foolish bajan man loses house and whatever else.
Persons of african descent are only seen as a means to an end for indians – the eveidence is very clear.
Barbados will soon be experiencing and sadly not just witnessing from afar what Dr Kean Gibson is warning us about in Guyana.
……….’but he hatched a plan that was conceived in iniquity and born in sin’.
RLMAO………..LOL…..this is rich coming from Wickham!!
WTF!!
Peter Wickham has not answer the questions posted by David & Your Truly.Peter Wickham I indicated I wanted a response to the UN report on racism in Guyana.I am sure you have access to that report.I want to hear your views on that report.
Peter Wickham in your posting you practically blamed Forbes Burnham for Guyana troubles.The PPP is in power since 1992 and yet Forbes Burnham is being blame for Guyana ills.Peter you are trying to tell me that 17 years of PPP rule and the apparent wrongs of Burnham cannot be rectified.Give me a break with that bull shit.You have not critique the performance of the PPP since coming into power in Guyana.
Is it convenience for you not to criticize the PPP?
Peter Wickham I am no university scholar but I could reasoned good enough to challenge you and to tell you that your views are contradictory.You criticised Dr Kean Gibson work and labeled it racist.The message from you on this immigration issue is that we Barbadians are xenophobic & in some cases racist and we Barbadians should not be afraid on Indo-Guyanese because those Indo-Guyanese are not racist.In your postings today you finally admitted that Indo-Guyanese could and are racist.
Peter Wickham do you know about Roger Khan and his connections to the PPP administration? Do you know about the phantom gang that murdered over 200 black men & boys in Guyana recently?Do you read about the police & defence forces raid of black communities in Guyana and the beating and imprisoning of Black men & boys from those communities?Do you know of the replacement of Black Guyanese public officers and Indo-Guyanese taking those jobs?Do you know of the general marginalization of the Black-Guyanese in Guyana today?
Peter Wickham your responses had said later or nothing I am not impress.
Yes let’s move on indeed, but don’t for one minute think that Gibson can be compared to Chomsky! I am familiar with his work and she does not even come close to being in his league.
Interestingly enough, one would have thought that the system of government that Guyana changed to (the Proportional Representational System) would be ideal for a multi-racial society since it will invariably force the races to corporate in the interest of building a harmonious political system. To that extent, Guyana should be better placed than Trinidad in terms of racial harmony since Guyana has the PR system, while Trinidad has the “Winner Takes All” First Past the Post system. In all fairness to Burnham, the PR system should theoretically assure equal access to power since it forces power sharing, however I assume that this was not Burnham’s objective
The problem therefore appears to be partially economic since even though some Indo Trinidadians complain about being denied political power, their complaints are more muted since the economic pie is sufficiently large and everyone can get a decent slice. Moreover I have noticed that in places like Trinidad where Afros control the government and Indos are more in control of the private sector, it is less of an issue. In Guyana I get the sense that Afros have not found their niche outside of government since Burnham left office. They have moved towards the professions, but as in Barbados they have not assumed control of the private sector and as a result they are very alienated from all (economic and political) power in the country. The situation is more critical since the economic pie is small and shrinking and as such Afros are feeling the pinch “disproportionately”.
So the solution in the Guyana case could be a modification of the political system to ensure Afro participation beyond that which is facilitated by the PPP/Civic alliance, within the context of the PR system. Clearly this alliance is not seen as anything tangible. Having said this, however, I did say previously that I don’t think the PNCR will ever re-capture office while it is led by an Afro Guyanese and nothing said here should be construed to suggest that I think differently now, however that solves a PNCR problem, which is entirely different to the broader racial problem.
Sadly, I do not think serious discussions about alternative governmental forms will ever take place in Guyana since the PPP has taken over a system established by the PNC and manipulated by the PNC at the expense of the PPP. I would think Jagdeo a “political fool” if he willingly placed himself at the “discretion” of people like Dr. Gibson who are clearly not happy about being deprived of political power for this long. It would be like a Turkey walking into a Thanksgiving Dinner…..
Lickham, Pete
AAAAAAAAAAghhhhhhhhh
Negro Man
The problem with Peter Wickham and crew is that they sit up there in their “ivory towers” and read their fancy news and don’t come down are face reality. As I have stated before, from experience, I have tasted serious racism in Guyana and I state here and now Indo-guyanese are more racist than white people. Of the 50,000 to 60,000 guyanese in Barbados 80% are indians. A trojan horse is building up, when the flood gates open, God help Barbados.
This is a problem that was generated by the former P.M because he seemed to have wanted to be P.M over the entire region. He allowed Jagdeo, to fool him into letting in mass migration of guyanese into this country. You should how Jagdeo treated him whenever he was in Guyana. He lived like royalty and it seems to have blown his mind. I expected the new P.M to have rectified this trend but it seems his hands are tyed. Whatever happened to the P.M’s remark that bajan jobs are for bajans first? Why then are so many bajans losing their little pick and all these non-bajan still working? or in the case of Four Seasons, the chinese and guyanese are just waiting to resume work . Mr P.M don’t you think that we are courting some form of unrest when bajans are unemployed in their our country while non-nationals are reaping the sweets in these hard econmic time. Please don’t let Gonsalves and Jagdeo scare you, you know what you have to do, well just do it. Like President Obama, you presented yourself as the “people’s saviour” please don’t disappoint them.
Peter Wickham You have not answered the questions posted.Direct questions were asked and direct answers should be given.
The analysis of the political systems in Trinidad & Guyana is interesting indeed.however that does not answered the questions posted
Peter Wickham are you afraid to answer the non-university man questions?Come on be a man stop side stepping the questions posted and answered the damn questions.
Negro Man
Stop wasting your time with that man. Them fellows can only talk academics, other than that they try to talk down to people and as they get resistence they run. That’s what he does on the call-in programs too.
pretends to be single – licks his boxy if she has to – gets him to marry her and bam –
hahahahahahahahaha !.
What expression
wow !
He has not answered my question either why in countries like for e.g. Mauritius the indians who are the majority and held political power for the longest time still display the same racial hatred to persons of african descent.
Notice how he is now changing the argument to well it is not only about acess to political power,but the blacks lack of economic power.
I hope everyone is realising that wickham tries to talk as though he has knowledge and facts but in reality he is sadly lacking.
How disappointing Mr Wickham! Your ‘promise’ (my word) of adaptations was only empty rhetoric after all. After reading and re-reading your post I conclude that the reality of the situation in Guyana will remain unchanged, Indian domination will continue, Guyanese of all races will continue to leave and it is very likely that if Barbados continues to receive large numbers of them, it is very possible for the racial and other tensions of Guyana to be transplanted here. It appears to me that wherever an Indian diaspora community reaches a certain critical mass then tribal political viewpoints kick in and intense competition with other groups for political and economic power increases. The question we should ask ourselves is: Can the value systems that presently inform the functioning of our public institutions ( Parliament, public service, judiciary, the security forces, trade unions, economic arrangements etc) which have allowed us to develop to this point be maintained in the face of increasing numbers of those of whatever race that may have a different universal viewpoint/value system?
Dr Kean Gibson
I am sure you are reading this.Could you please join the debate and give us the readers the benefit of your wisdom?
Where can your book be purchased?
What are your views on the U.N. report?
Could you please approach CBC to doing a programme on a full discussion with you and others about racial conflict in guyana?
If Mr Peter wants information or confirmation about racism in Guyana, he can contact Mr Frank Da Silva quite frankly speaking. But Mr Peter does not seem satisfied that he has all the say at CBC to determine who should not have a say on CBC Sunday Nite show. Who are you trying to fool ,You are using diversionary tactics to stray people’s minds from the serious issues facing the
country. Are you not getting the responses from your analyses that you anticipated.Today is Good Friday ,are you stirring up the people? You seem to be doing a PRO consultancy job now. Stick to what you are trained to do. Have you done any analysis one the immigration statistics or better yet migration statistics? What are the results? Have you been doing random political polls in Bim recently? Would you like to share info with the family.
Let Peter Wickham take a walk through B’town a Friday evening and take a survey of the different accents ans nationalities that are in the city. I’m positive Bajans would not be dominante. It scared me a few Fridays ago and I promise not to go back into B’town again on Fridays. I was told it is almost as bad on Saturdays
Large numbers of illegal jamaicans are also building up here in barbados.
Caymans,bahamas,turks & caiacos getting rid of these jamaicans because they bring with them a large criminal element and they are all fleeing here instead.
Can’t go to U.K.,USA,Caymans – no problem – go to barbados.
Owen and the Blp feel real smug seeing everyone from the region and elsewhere pouring in to barbados,but the cracks are already appearing in the society,check out the increase in prostitution with with the jamaicans,guyanese colombian,brazalian and russian women.
They are also here working illegally at all the low level jobs,but the criminals and drug pushers are also here and commissioner Dottin does not have a clue how to deal with this situation.
Both DLP and BLP politicians have these guyanese and jamaican women wo are here ilegally,and david thompson seem more interested in going to the reggae shows or entertaining these regggae artistes at illaro court.
Someone needs to speak to David like yesterday.
I was surprised by Peter Wickham article in The Nation. He seemed completely unaware to accept the realities of Guyana’s racial divide and was more intent on discrediting Dr. Keane Gibson. His additional comments in this Blog are even more surprising as he refuses to admit that Guyana’s “problems” are being exported to Barbados and other countries through the unending emigration of its peoples.
The recently published UN Report on race relations in Guyana basically agrees with the analysis of Dr. Gibson in relation to the systematic repression politically economically and socially of Afro Guyanese in Guyana. Mr. Wickham refuses to comment on this report. Maybe he has not read it – the same way he has not read Dr. Gibson’s books or heard her lectures.
The PPP Indian government won 54% of the vote in 2006, and rule like they have 100%. Indians have economic power as well as political power and they use Guyana as their own private plantation, while they have dual citizenship to the USA where they export their profits. Corruption is rife and drugs are the basis of wealth. They will do anything to stay in power including orchestrating the killings of Indians “Blacks” ( alleged PNC supporters) at election time to solidify their Indian support base which is about 45% of the population. The Afro Guyanese are about 30% but there are Amerindians (10%) and mixed making up the difference.
The solution for Guyana is where no one party gets over 50 % of the vote and therefore coalition governance becomes possible. Suriname has a diverse population and there is little conflict – no “race” is over 50% and they have to work together to govern. Mayde with Jagdeo leaving in 2011 that the PPP may not get 50% of the vote, as many Indians are becoming frustrated with the government although they may not vote for an alternate party.
Mr. Wickham mentions Trinidad and the fact the the Indians control business while the Africans are in Government etc. The same situation as pertained in Guyana under Burnham and Hoyte. I believe that eventually the Indians in Trinidad settle their “differences” when Panday leaves the scene… and become a single party… there will be another “Guyana situation” in the region where Indians have complete control economically and politically. With low oil prices, an economy that is weakening and the growing unpopulqarity of the PNM, this may not be too far away.
It is also true that Indians almost everywhere value money and material wealth as their badge of success… but this is also true with many other people. However they will do almost anything to achieve their goals… that may be the difference. They also, like many others, value lighter skin colours and would marry to ensure this. Their hatred for black skins is within their own culture — their hair the only differentiation from their black ancestors – who were the first humans anyway from whom they are descended. This light skinned preference is reflected in their film industry and the sale of skin lighteners in their society… even advertised by some of their film stars.
In Barbados they are now controlling a greater and greater part of the economy, whether they come from Asia, Trinidad or Guyana or are “Local”. They are buying up businesses, real estate and solidifying their position. They do not have to get political power – they just “purchase it” to get what they want.
Back to Guyana – they have to fix their “problems” or there will be a great flare up eventually that would be quite bloody… as noted in the UN Report. The government has ignored and discounted many reports and studies that concur with the UN study and the analysis of Dr. Gibson. They pretend that they are a multi-ethnic party because they have a few black faces in their cabinet… however it is an Indian government that is systematically raping and reaping the natural resources of the country…. while suppressing opposition and Afro-Guyanese.
Maybe BU should publish the UN report so all could see its findings.
Ecoanalyst
Econoanalyst
This is one of the most balanced,well presented analysis I have read on this blog about the racials problems in guyana,trinidad and countries with a large indian population.
I hope CBC does not regret giving peter wickham that position of influence hosting these call in shows.
Why is it that the UN Report on racial conflict in Guyana and Dr Kean Gibson’s studies being discussed openly on the airwaves and in the newspapers?
I am a so-called “white” Bajan (but I know I got a lil lick a de tar brush) and I been reading these debates about the Indo-Guyanese in Barbados, and what I want to say is that I am not old enough to remember how it was here during white rule, I come along with the great Skipper, Errol Walton Barrow, God rest his soul, and I can’t help wondering how he would have dealt with the illegal Guyanese, but I pretty sure he would put us Bajans FIRST in whatever dealings he made. But what happen with the Government though? They scared of frowsy Faria and Jagdeo? I never thought I would want to leave Barbados because I am very satisfied with how blacks rule this country, but this Ecoanalyst fellow got me scared and if, God forbid, these dirty (sorry to say it, but they are dirty) Indians ever get to take over politics in this island, I gone one time. I don’t care how much pretty hair they got, or even if they got blue eyes, that ain’t no catch for me. When I look around the island and see them in the droves working in the fields and construction sites I get real scared, you hear? I don’t want them in this island. I know some of the other whites like them and say they work hard. Well that don’t wash with me, and I am begging Mr. Thompy and the other one, Mr. Arnie, to tell Faria and Jagdeo to piss off, and pelt the damn Indo-Guyanese out NOW. Thank you, sir.
Scout I goin’ into business selling hair straightener. You mus’ try it
AAAAAAAAAAAGhhhhhhhhh
Republic of Guyana an equal place under sun, where people of all races strive to live in peace and harmony, love and unity. These attributes are all becoming a realisation in Guyana because of the PPP Peoples Progressive Party of Guyana. I don’t care who rules my country, meaning race, Dr. Luncheon, Minister Jenny, Dr. Ashni Dr. Anthony, but as long as it is a member of the PPP. I love President Jagdeo and he is doing a great job, and he is a great leader. We love him, and most of our people love him. We loved our dear departed Mum the late President Janet and our Dad, the late Dr. Cheddi. I don’t like the PNC or the UF and I didn’t like Mr. Burnham nor Mr. D’Aguiar, but I love my PPP leaders, and I love the Indians of Guyana and the people of India, wish I had some nice long jet black straight hair like the Indians. I love Guyana and thank goodness we are not like you, for we have 30,000 illegal Brasilians in our country and we don’t get upset at them, they even have their own section and it is fine, but then again Guyanese are the most hospitable people on earth. Anyway, I support the PPP and I am not east Indian, but I love my East Indian country men, will do anything for them, just love them. I have lived with all races in Guyana, but I like to live with the Indians of Guyana, great people and kind, and gentle, you just don’t know them, plus they are beautiful, like Shakira Baksh Miss Guyana 1966 and Nadira Jagan and Dr. Frank Anthony.
@ whitey
The DLP had a non-national candidate Taan Abed- Arab.
The indians shouldn’t bother you so much when you see them working. Look around beautiful BArbados and see the works of their hand-the airport, the oval, each and every beautiful constuction was touched by indians hands, you know why, because bajans r***hole lazy!!!!
That comment above which appears to come from one of the nasty indians will be the reason barbados will be facing their own armagadeon if things don’t take a swift change.
One day coming soon.
Anonymous wrote “talking to indians portraying themselves as the victim,”
I am not that easily deceived. I know that Guyana’s problems have been created and sustained by BOTH racial groups, so neither indians nor Kean Gibson can fool me into believing that they are victims.
“yesterday Gibson was celebrated by some members of the BU family becasue she wants to kick Indo Guyanese out, today family members want to kick her out too”
Peter man I was just kidding. Notwithstanding that Kean Gibson talks a lot of foolishnees I don’t seriously want to kick her out. I just want to turn her (and the Indo Guyanese) into good Bajans.
“most of the protagonists of this debate (re Black Guyanese vs Indo Guyanese etc) are themselves Guyanese with a few Barbadians who may lived for many years outside of Barbados. ”
I am not Guyanese. I am 100% Bajan. My family was moved here from West Africa hundreds of years ago. We ain’t leaving. Nobody can call me a foreigner in my own country.
“The irony of this discussion is that everyone knows that Guyana’s political system was constructed by Forbes Burnham who ironically sought to preserve the interests of Afro Guyanese and all then, people like Gibson were silent.”
Thanks Peter and for most your post of 3:01 p.m.except the use of the word ironic. Burnham’s attempts to shut out Indo Guyanese was wicked (not ironic) the subsequent efforts of Indo Guyanese politicians to shut our black Guyanese is also wicked. BOTH SIDES HAVE DONE AND CONTINUE TO DO GREAT WRONG to the other people. Until that is corrected Guyana will continue to suffer. High migration will continue, and Guyana will continue to be under developed. I first made these observations to a good friend of mine at Gibbes Beach in 1975. I believe that at that time both Jagdeo and Wickham and maybe Gibson too were in short pants.
Anonymous wrote at 4:01 pm “Any indian who desires to be honest will tell you that the fair skinned children in indian families are treated better than the dark skinned ones.”
I believe that this is unfortunately true in many black families also. So what are you saying?
Guyana’s problems are long standing, and the solution (justice for all) is pretty obvious. But it seems that Guyanese would rather to spend decades hating each other.
Anonymous wrote”gets him to marry her and bam – soon as she gets citizenship”
I’ve said for a long time that Barbados’ citizenship laws are defective. NOBODY should be able to acquire citizenship simply by marriage. I believe that on the whole marriage is too highly privileged. Citizenship should only be granted after a minimum of 5 years of living as a good decent Bajan. However having said that I do NOT feel sorry for Bajan men who want to make us believe that they have been coerced, or deceived into marriage with Guyanese Indian women. You mean these same Bajan men who will keep a good decent Bajan woman living in sin for upwards of 50+ years suddenly can’t say “NO” to a Guyanese Indian woman? Don’t make me laugh. Just last week an acquaintance of mine died. He had been married 4 days. His oldest child from that union is 53 years. Too many Bajan men are big-able frauds who deserve whatever mis-treatment they get.
At 5:20 Peter wrote “but don’t for one minute think that Gibson can be compared to Chomsky! I am familiar with his work and she does not even come close to being in his league.”
Cheese-on-bread Peter man ya got to hit the woman so hard.? Frankly I gine have to change your name to Frank.
Anonymous wrote at 8:48 “Both DLP and BLP politicians have these guyanese and jamaican women wo are here ilegally”
So are you saying that possible migration problems in Barbados are cause by promiscuous BLP and DLP politicians who cannot keep their doggies in their pants?
And if that is the case why then do we continue to elect them?
At 10:19 Whitey wrote “When I look around the island and see them in the droves working in the fields and construction sites I get real scared”
My question to you is “Are you and the other Whiteys prepared to do the field and construction work then?” “And did it also scared you and yours when the people working in droves in the fields and construction sites were black? And if you were not scared to see black people do back-breaking (actually it is back strengthening) work in the hot sun, can you explain why?
Grantley Adams Airport is the most beautiful Airport in hemisphere. Beautiful I say
At 11:33 anon wrote “because bajans r***hole lazy!!!!”
If Bajans are as lazy as you say please explain to me and to the BU family how Barbados has managed to EARN its way into to highest standard of living in the Caribbean.
Guyanese black and indian are not coming to Barbados because we Bajans are too rasshole lazy. For the most part both black and indian Guyanese are fleeing dirty politics, and they coming to a place where they can find work (because of good Bajan politics) and live peaceably.
If Guyanese were are hard working as Bajans are claimed to be lazy, explain to me and to the BU family how come the fruits of their hard work are not visible in Guyana?
I can’t sleep till I hear from ya.
Look Anonymous:
Get over yourself. Grantley Adams International airport is a drearily ordinary airport, as are most airports.
anon wrote at 11:33 that Taan Abed is a non-national.
That is a LIE.
Mr. Abed is a Bajan and as such has the same right as other Bajans to compete for political office.
I am not a member of any political party.
Perhaps because none would have me, because I insist in speaking the non-partisan truth.
J, You hit the spot, you are so on to them. I was at Timehri Airport and some coloured Guyanese with blond hair and blue eyes were standing there at the gate, I tried to form a little conversation with them but the would not have it, their little whitness prevented them from seeing me as a human being. I am black, Amerindian, Chinese, but I am firmly with the PPP, never will I move from them, because they treat me like people ought to treated, like a human being, I am not looking to have sex with them or anything, just some nice treatment. By the way gear box maybe you can come up with some tonic that I can take to wash away my blackness as all this hating makin me a ashamed to be part black.
Anonymous wrote at 11:37 “barbados will be facing their own armagadeon”
So what are your suggestions for avoiding your vision of armagadeon?
J
What is your point other than to curry Wickham’s favour? Usually your posts communicate a position clearly on the topic d’jour. So …. is there an immigration problem in B’dos re the numbers and/or the presumed socio-political concerns associated with the immigrants themselves? If there is a problem what should or could be done? If there is no problem then happy Easter let’s go fly a kite!
Wow,A Barbados blog that talks mostly about “Guyanese affairs”,how sad !
As time goes on it looks like Barbados is loosing the identity I once knew.I can’t believe it is so difficult to actually deport illegal immigrants on an island.
On the subject of guyana the country is actually officially known as”Co-operative-Republic of Guyana” but politically that doesn’t appear to be reality.Whatever prejudice that happens to be in the Co-operative republic should stay there.This whole idea of a Caribbean economic Union seems to be tearing at the very fabric that makes each & every Caribbean island unique.
I got high-brown paint too.. permanent… CrooknDale could deal wid de res’…
AAAAAAAAAghhhhhhhhh
The UN Report is in a later post by david on this thread.It gives some perspective on this racial opression of afro guyanese by the indian administration of basdeo jagdeo.
The UN investigator reported that continued oppression of afro guyanese will lead to violent uprising.
As to J and her ramblings I usually ignore her and what she posts.
She is as real as a 15 cents piece.
I take every thing she says with a bowl not a pinch of salt.
My dear friend Jay,as someone who likes david thompson I am completely turned off by his inaction on this matter.
A whole lotta long talk.
A lot of bajans who don’t read this blog are not even aware how their future is being forever altered in a negative way by the massive amounts of indian racist guyanese pouring into this country.
If the economic crisis in Barbados gets any worse, the bottom will drop out of the country. I am sure bajans can weather any economic storm but we can’t and wouldn’t do it with these amount of parasites here sucking the little sweets left. Something has to give and that quite quickly to save the sudden downfall of Barbados. When something happen, it will happen really quickly. As i have stated, our leaders are camping under a volcano that is ready to erupt and they are ignoring the warnings.
Look Ananymous I don’t have to curry Peter Wickham’s favour nor yours. I don’t eat at Peter Wickham’s dinner table nor at yours and Peter does not eat at my table.
I was working for myself when you and Peter Wickham were still in diapers.
You vex ’cause I disagree with you? (and agree with Peter?)
If I feel that Peter is telling the truth I will support him. And if I feel that he is talking foolishness I will say so.
And Anonymous while you may “like David Thompson” I don’t vote for a politician because I like him (or dislike him). I vote for a man (or woman) because I feel that she/he can do the job at hand.
If you ask me if I like David Thompson, or Owen Arthur, or Erskine Sandiford, or Errol Barrow, or Harold St. John, or Tom Adams or Grantley Adams I would honestly have to say I don’t know. Never met any of the gentlemen. Won’t get to meet most of them now. All of them offered themselves for public service and for that I comment them. Some did a better job that others, but all tried.
I save like and love for friends and family, for people that I know very well.
My belief for years is that Democracy whether first past the post or proportional representation is fraudulent because these forms of representation are not complex enough to adequately represent the varied interest that make human populations.
I hope to live long enough to witness a senate that has a representative (appointed by the specific fraternity) to take care of the needs of the following “minority interests” before any state agenda is ratified
1. Race Relations
2. Majority Religion
3. Minority Religion
4. Manufacturing
5. Micro Manufacturing (Craft)
6. Public Entertainers association
7. Chamber of Commerce
8. Small Business
9. Hotel and Tourism association
10. Farming Community
11. Disabled Community
12. Environmentalists
13. Education providers
14. Health Care providers
15. Urban Constituents
16. Rural Constituents
17. Consumer association
18. Exporters association
and so on filling another available ten or so seats. It really wouldn’t matter who or what wins the government, they would still have to deal with a senate with real teeth, and each and every one of us would have a number of representatives (not just one) making decisions on our behalf.
David Comissiong got this idea from me…!
BAFBFP
you actually proud to put your name to this crap? WTF!!
The Senate is crap. If people stupid enough to vote for idiots then they should accept the consequences. Personally I am in favour of an elected absolute monarchy along the lines of the Dai Lama. Some years ago there was no Government executive in Trinidad due to a hung parliament. That was the period of the best governance Trinidad ever had!
wickham sounds like he is on the payroll of the PPP Crime Family Inc. [Guyana's ruling party] and just in a long line of house negroes who would do what.ever the master wants for a few pieces of silver and a crust of bread
prem misir, rickey singh, norm faria and the rest of criminals who defend the regieme have very little to worry about
the ones that live in Guyana live large and the ones that don’t have no answer as to whey they wont come home to paradise
the passport office in Guyana is the busiet place in town
crowded from sunup to sundown
ask these criminals why?
Duh… What does “WTF” mean?
BAFBFP // April 11, 2009 at 12:06 pm
Duh… What does “WTF” mean?
On you on the internet every day?!!?
WTF…..LOL….RLMAO…
Dont move…..BRB with the answer.
Anonymous 6.39 am
That lady J believes that this is a utopian world and everything is nice & dandy.She ignores hard facts and is bury in her delusion state of mine.She nit picks at trivia.She is old and wants something to occupy her time
Peter Wickham thinks that the problems beseeching Guyana is only political in nature.He believes getting the politics of Guyana right will solve the problems in Guyana.Peter Wickham does not take into consideration the ethnic norms,practises & culture of the races living in Guyana.
Scout
I am not that pessimistic & I do not think that we reach a stage where civil unrest will occur.I am always knocking the Prime Minister and hammering away at his government,however I must say that real fervent efforts are underway the bring this illegal immigration situation to manageable levels.The government is trying but it is a very difficult undertaking.I know what I am talking about.That is why I am happy that David & BU are keeping this immigration issue as its flagship issue because we must always continue to pressure government into doing the right thing.At this stage the government needs our support in this regard.We must continue to use the call in programmes,write articles in the newspapers and continue to post on the blogs.This government needs to know that we want action on this issue.
BABFP
WTF = Why talk foolishness!
(didn’t you know?)
Anoynamous
Why do you TF? I said that the senate will have teeth and the individual associations will nominate their respective representatives to serve for a duration that they will determine. That really soun’ F to you? The Upper Chamber will no longer be a rubber stamp!
@ Techy
I thought that WTF stood for “What the f##k”. But yah loss me again wid this RLMAO.
@BAFBFP, RLMAO=really laughing my ankle off; ROTFLMAO=rolling on the floor laughing my appendix off….
WCBY
Well Caw Blin’ Ya
Nelly Moreno you stupid Venezuealan clown, the passport office working from sun up to sun down because people are re-newing their passports for travels for holidays.
Scout, you were metted out racism in Guyana, but yet you telling them how it is cheaper for you to fly around the USA on American Airlines, than going to Georgetown from Bridgetown on Caribbean Airlines via Port-of-Spain, now what type of thing is that, you get bad treatment in Guyana and you still going over. It is you that placed the Cathy and Nigel’s plastic chair in the road that is why Guyanese Police had to show up with a gun to set you straight, and calling our officer stooge, you favour it you know, and why didn’t you mention the black businessman’s name who was told Indian ruling by the Indian, you mention Cathy and Nigel’s name, refrain from using names here please.
All I have to say is you all turn now to become mixed race, if I have to be mixed race, so that people thinking I am a Samoan or Fijian, New Zeeland Maori, instead of Guyanese, then you should endure the same, I say to the Guyanese people go out and have fun in other countries and mix with them, I have had to endure in Guyana and plus suffer racism in the white countries, so you must have the same. Remove Co-Operative from the name of Guyana, I don’t like the word Co-Operative, I told His Excellecny already I hate that word, and I see it from time to time. I want our country to be called Republic of Guyana. Happy Easter and have fun, don’t hate me because I am Guyanese, for those who know me love me.
Negroman wrote “She is old”
Sure I am old.
But not so old that I do not go to work EVERY work day.
Not so old that I cannot think.
Not so old that I cannot speak.
I am old enough though to know that the world is no utopia.
I am old enough to know that BOTH parties are responsible for Guyana’s problems.
I am old enough to know that BOTH races are responsible for Guyana’s problems.
I am old enough to know that under Burnam’s government the consul general in Toronto was ordered to burn the “Indian votes” in the fireplace of his house. I am old but not so old that I do not remember that that good man’s conscience rebelled and that even though he had no other means of earning his living he quit qorking for Burnham.
Kean Gibson knows all this too.
I’ll say it again. BOTH parties and BOTH races are responsible for Guyana’s problems. And Guyana will stagnate and decline until there is justice for ALL people in Guyana.
And I ain’t on nobody’s payroll.
Last Saturday I planted several hundred holes of cassava. As long as GOD sends the rain and the sun nobody in or out of Barbados can starve me out.
I’ve been working since I was 6. And I plan to continue until I die.
I glad that I ain’t born yesterday.
I glad that I can still think for myself.
I am glad that I am old enough to know that only Guyanese can fix Guyana.
Nelly Moreno, You favour it, calling a highly educated and handsome man like Mr. Peter, Wickham, Wickham, like if you are the Queen of England, show some respect here, please refer to him as Mr. Wickham, for he is the only rational thinking person here.
I have to laugh here, because you all always asking if a Barbadian can show up in Guyana and tell us what to do. The answer is NO, you think a Barbadain Dr. Kean could show up in Guyana and say, get rid of Brasilians in Guyana, they would have routed her long time from Guyana.
The problems in Guyana are caused by those mixed race black people, the ones that were coloured in the old days, they are the ones that think they are better than the rest of us, they are the ones that want to rule Guyana and cause problems. The Guyanese that are 100 % African never curse up the Indians and so on, I know I live with them, but it is the mix race English and Black that do it. I read the Nation and occasionally I see them in the papers, the Association of Guyana in Barbados people. I was not a big PM/President Burnham fan, but one thing I was so happy to see him do was route those high yalla Guyanese from their pedestals, those so called coloured, good show LFSB.
On April 11 at 3:25 p.m. Ananymous wrote “Barbadian Dr. Kean ”
Get this straight.
Kean Gibson is NOT a Barbadian; and may have overstayed her welcome here.
You can have her back in Guyana any time you want.
In the 90′s there was a high level conference in Georgetown at the Le Meridian Pegasus Hotel, well the chefs at the Pegasus made a curry dish entree for the delagates of the conference, the Barbados delagation was interviewed and I believe the delagation included former PM Owen Arthur, anyway,
when the Guyana newspaper asked the Barbadian delegation for comments all they could say is that they could hardly wait to eat lunch as they could smell the delicious curries being cooked in the Pegasus kitchen. The Miss Guyana contestants show up on NCN TV Guyana, and the Mixed race hostess asks the Miss Guyana contestants questions, and one of the questions is have you perfected your roti making skills, now what am I suppose to say when I read these blogs here.
I just love the blogs!!
Going to the Garrison to lime and watch horses run……BRB !!
J // April 11, 2009 at 12:19 am
anon wrote at 11:33 that Taan Abed is a non-national.
That is a LIE.
Mr. Abed is a Bajan and as such has the same right as other Bajans to compete for political office.
I am not a member of any political party.
Perhaps because none would have me, because I insist in speaking the non-partisan truth.
_________________________
Taan Abed was born in the Syian Arab Republic and moved here 30 something yrs ago.
There are also Guyanese and many other non-national who moved here many yrs ago. So Taan can be respected as a national and others can’t Please!!
FYI David thompson married a St. Lucian. Is she to be considered a non-national…..Please people, get real!
J // April 11, 2009 at 12:13 am
At 11:33 anon wrote “because bajans r***hole lazy!!!!”
If Bajans are as lazy as you say please explain to me and to the BU family how Barbados has managed to EARN its way into to highest standard of living in the Caribbean.
Guyanese black and indian are not coming to Barbados because we Bajans are too rasshole lazy. For the most part both black and indian Guyanese are fleeing dirty politics, and they coming to a place where they can find work (because of good Bajan politics) and live peaceably.
If Guyanese were are hard working as Bajans are claimed to be lazy, explain to me and to the BU family how come the fruits of their hard work are not visible in Guyana?
I can’t sleep till I hear from ya.
________________________
I give you that one, it is beyond my comprehension. Fact remains that bajans don’t like to work and a they walk around feeling the government owe them something.
There is a lot of work out there that bajans tell themselves they are to BIG to do. So don’t get vex when other people come and take up the oppurtunity. Truth is we are only taking your left-overs. Thank God for Barbados. All hail tourism. Barbados is beautiful and fruitful and a land filled with oppurtunities and yet bajans crying.
Guyanese are coming because of economic opportunities, but remember now you advertised for them in Guyana, they just don’t up an come. I have seen the ads myself, lets be honest here, so please refrain from tainting my country by saying dirty politics, those Guyanese coming over couldn’t care less about politics, all the see are dollar sign, plus it is a nice thing to say you went overseas.
The PPP won the elections with a 56% win, black people had to vote PPP for this to happen, refrain from saying such about Guyana.
Nelly Avila said, Guyanese are afraid to write to the newspapers and use their real name, epecially if they are critical of the Government, well here is the flip side, Guyanese write to the newspapers using their nice good names, they say something nice about the GOG and President Jagdeo, then a few mornings later some of these bad Guyanese write back to the papers using the names of the good Guyanese that they saw in the papers saying nice things, but this time the letter writer that said nice things is saying awful things, in fact Mr. Sattuar had write a piece stating this is unkind to do, and to please refrain from using the names of others, it is also a crime to do such in Guyana.
You say we closed down the Living Guyana blog, well they crossed a line, that should not have been crossed, it is alright to criticise our leaders and TV personalities, it is expected, but to place lies about a reputable firm on the blog was wrong, it could have given people heart attacks. They were closed int he best interest of the Guyanese people.
Detractors like to say Guyanese are fleeing because of politics, but the fact is they want more money, they want riches, you know many of them are rich overseas, rich I tell you, but oh they pine for Guyana. How many of these Guyanese care about politics, all they know is and the Jagans, PPP and PNC, nothing else, but they all cooking cook up and metagee and curry for Easter. So sad.
I meant to say all they about Guyanese politics are Burnham and the Jagans, PNC and PPP
Get to shite off this board sister baby.
You ole jerk.
Guyanese crap.
@Peter Wickham
Each second, minute, hour, day you refuse to respond by giving your opinion on the UN report your credibility gets another puncture.
David
Listen for when he goes on air next.He will be spinning better than suleman benn.
Peter Wichkam wrote in an earlier comment that he agrees that the conversation around this issue needs to be raised in Barbados. The question we have to ask, doesn’t Peter host a popular talk show? What is stopping him from flogging this issue in the same way he flogs other issues. Please tell us Peter that you are not muzzled?
@ J
I get raise pun rations so I rational too…!
AAAAAAAAAAghhhhhhhhhhh
Lol@ Gearbox
Anon said :
I give you that one, it is beyond my comprehension. Fact remains that bajans don’t like to work and a they walk around feeling the government owe them something.
There is a lot of work out there that bajans tell themselves they are to BIG to do. So don’t get vex when other people come and take up the oppurtunity. Truth is we are only taking your left-overs.
———————————–
Excuse me,but I think you are way out of line.Bajans have an absolute right to ask what they see fit from the Government that the people elected.That same government who despite being wrong on this illegal immigration issue functions by us who pays the taxes to ensure that the standard of living in our country remains high.
I would like to see one story where people in Guyana can actually say the same instead of trying to put down the country that so many Guyanese citizens are actually flocking to.The Barbados Government is not responsible for Guyana’s problems,that responsibility lies with the Government & most importantly the Citizens of Guyana.
@ Jay
This government is not that lenient on immigration issues. In fact I think this government is fullof shit! Sorry to say!
Nobody is trying to put down Barbados except their own people. I think bajans should appreciate what they have and respect it!
If you feel the need to question your governance then the problems of Barbados does not mean that bajans are responsible, but the people they put in power are. So the same goes for Guyana. The people are not responsible but the government is …………..Right. Just making sure I got you correct.
So anon:
If I was born in Zimbabwe and moved to Barbados when I was of primary school age and I have taken out Bajan citiznship and I’ve worked and paid taxes and voted in Barbados for 30 or more years at what point would you concede that I have BECOME Bajan?
And if my brother was born in Barbados and moved to the United States when he was 5 or 6, and took out American citizenship when he was 15 or 16, and he is now 45 and he has worked and paid taxes and voted in the U.S. for 30 years or more at what point would you concede that he had BECOME American?
I waiting pun ya.
I can’t sleep until ya answer me?
@ J
Please note: you are asking me the sme question I asked you. So clearly you nor I don’t have any ansers.
Valium works better than me. Don’t suffer the insomnia. Love ya!!!!!
I do have an answer.
People can and do BECOME Bajans.
And people can and do cease being Bajans.
No valium required.
I sleep the sweet sleep of the innocent.
Happy Easter.
Nope, actually I mean both.
Guyana suffers from both a social & political problem that doesn’t seem to be even close to being resolved which I believe ultimately inhibits the country’s development.I believe that should a Government fail then the responsibility for good governance would automatically fall to the people.In this case,however,even the people of Guyana do not appear to be fighting for said good Governance except for a few individuals such as Freddie Kissoon & instead choose to emigrate permanently.This transplantation I believe is the primary reason for the current manifestation that you see on this blog concerning people of Guyanese descent & throughout Barbados because our Citizens do NOT want to see the same problems coming with Guyana’s citizenry.I’m not saying it is right or wrong but that it is just expected.
I have seen every reason in the book as to why Guyana nationals should be in Barbados,but I have never once seen one question answered as to why they should not be in Guyana fighting for their own good governance.This is why I absolutely oppose any effort to make Barbados immigration laws any easier & disagree with Peter Wickham on this matter.The Barbados Government should not be making it easier for people to flout our immigration laws.If they are in the country legally fine,but otherwise deportations & consistent work-site enforcement raids are in order.
Peter W. Wickham // April 10, 2009 at 3:01 pm
Clearly Adrian cannot appreciate the subtle difference between my agreement that Guyana does have a racial problem and my assertion that this problem is not caused by the simple presence of large number of Indo Guyanese.
————————————————-
Poor Peter cannot seperate himself from his inconsistencies. Here we are, dealing with the real realationships that exist in Guyana, fully aware that people do not put away their behaviours, their cultural norms, and practices, their steriotypes etc when they migrate to another society, and that such real relationships in Guyana has enormous implications for any country that allows large numbers Guyanese into their space. Peter wants us Barbadians to look at the cause for the racial devide in Guyana, accept that such a cause is not present in Barbados and therefore we have nothing to fear. It isn’t the cause Peter. If my next door neighbour was known to have kept flammable liquids on his properties, and I did not. A fire broke out on that property, according to Peter I should not be concern about the fire spreading, because the CAUSE for the fire does not exist on my property.
To try to discredit Dr. Gibson as acting out of her league is folly.
The lady is a professional researcher.
Once the information presented by her has been empiracally researched (as against being skewed) that is all that matters
To try to put her down is an underhand and cheap form of attact.
Sould have been: “empirically” and “attack”
@ Adrian Hinds
Exactly,Migrants must adhere to the societal norms of the country they are trying to migrate to,not the other way around.
Peter Wickham credibility has been destroyed and there is nothing that he can say to restore it.Peter Wickham is a coward.We are pleading with you to come back on the blogs and answer the queries of the UN report on Guyana.
Wanna want me tah bring back Pete? Beg …….!
AAAAAAAAAAAAAghhhhhhhhhhh
Anonymous
Why should I be careful using Nigel’s name, when this matter was done in the presence of many people. You don’t want to hear the truth or want your stinking government exposed. I could expose a lot more so don’t rub me the wrong way.
J
If you were born in any other part of the world and became a citizen of Barbados, you will NOT become bajan , you will be a barbadian citizen. A Bajan is a TRUE citizen of the soil not a “come yuh.”
Anonymous
I used to work in Guyana for the company I worked for then and God knows, I was glad when I was transfered,the canals stink, the roads stink, water stink. You people really enjoying sweet life in Barbados. Secondly, if guyanese are some hard working you have thousands and thousands of miles of land begging to be cultivated by guyanese at pepper-corn consession rates, why then come to Barbados to try and rent half acre of land for what you can rent a hundred acres for back home.and with plenty, plenty water. This just don’t make sense. The government and politics in guyana is what causing you to run. Well don’t burn your bridges, just now you will have to run back.
I am definitely not a coward and have lots more to say, but I have been advised by Gear Box to hold it down for the time being and I will await his counsel regarding the appropriate time to re-enter the debate.
@Peter Wickham
Making mock sport at the BU family by running from a debate does not become you.
Dear Pater:
Don’t take any advice from Gear Box. We need you back on this blog so that TRUTH and REASON can prevail.
Dear Gear Box:
Ok we beg. Bring back Pete…
I am taking a lunch break now, but I really want to her from Peter (and from you) before nightfall.
Steupes
“Truth and reason”???!! give me a break! Peter “Bojangles” Wickham got to address the issue first! He dancing all bout de place.
Peter Wickham what a convenience excuse.You taking advise from Gear Box who says nothing on these debates and tries to trivialize and make mock sport at serious issues.Give me a break with that bull shit.Peter Wickham you are coward and you know you are defeated and cannot bring any justifiable reasons to support your foolish argument.You are a wimp.
David
I cannot believe what Bobby Morris said in that article.I hope Barbadians are following the the direction the Barbados Workers Union is going with regards to Workers right in Barbados.No wonder the union lost the Sandy Lane & Royal Shop battles.I always had doubts about Bobby Morris.All the other Caribbean Countries and indeed all the countries of this world including the United States of America are putting their citizens first and doing everything possible to protect the jobs of those citizens and that clown talking about productivity of the workers and not nationality.He has insulted all hard working Barbadians who parents,grand parents and who themselves are now giving tremendous service to the development of this country.He has also given credence to the view by non-nationals that Barbadians are lazy.Bobby Morris you are a union disgrace.All Barbadian workers should resign from the Barbados Workers Union henceforth.I am calling for all Barbados Workers Union members to take that Barbadian traitor Bobby Morris to task.Do not allow him to receive a paysheet from your hard earn money and he is not representing your interest but the interest of non-nationals.
Bobby Morris you & Peter Wickham are 2 discredited Barbadian disgraces.
Bobby Morris & Peter Wickham I hope both of you rot in hell.
I just read with disbelief, the comments made by Bobby Morris. How can any bajan BWU member have condidence in him on a negotiations panel? Negro Man, I agree with you, this man is a TOTAL disgrace. I just hope the P.M is not thinking that way too. At the end of the five years term, will these non-nationals vote? Who would the unemployed bajans and their family who are suffering at the hands of a unpatriotic government and non-nationals, will they vote OUT? Let’s get serious, HOME DRUM BEATS FIRST, you said so yourself Mr P.M, don’t backdown now, we are supporting you all the way. Barvados did not reach this stage in our development with the help of these non-nationals, they just come on the bandwagon with this slogan about bajans lazy and run with it. Let’s pull up our socks and band together, things are going to get rough and we bajans have got to defend our country against this invasion. We MUST secure our country for our children and our children, children.
Negro Man
That’s typical Peter Wickham, empty but full of talk until challenged. On the call-in programs, he has the benefit of a producer to protect him. This now shows the true fraud
Bare in mind that the large non-Barbadian population working in Barbados represent an opportunity for the BWU. As the working population contracts it means the BWU and other unions membership bases are contracting. You don’t want the unions to have to lay off staff dont you?
Pete anxious. Awright I gun call he…
Pete Lickham up… again
AAAAAAAAAAAAAghhhhhhhhhhh
Scout, You have been running with the devil, so God don’t know nothing whether you glad or whatever, God don’t listen to hate. But it ain’t too late to redeem yourself and allow Jesus into your life and thus drop the charges against you. We are all God’s people, but what is needed right now in Barbados is a Holiness Revival, and I am praying that the Lord will lead Prophetess Juanita Bynum to Barbados to save and sanctify God’s people who have gone astray, the Anglican Church can’t save you all, only some old fashion religion can.
Negroman,
With all of your emotiveness and flamboyance you too are as empty as thy come. Man I hate when I have to agree with a sentiment that you have made. Damn, makes me uncomfortable. Thankfully this time around, I can state with conviction that you are not making sense. And the same goes for Scout (as usual) and a few others. P W Whickham is recognised and respected through out the region because he can deliver; sets him aside from most other academics that I know. David BU and the rest of you are in the grander scheme of things lack umph.
Show some respect.
David
I do not understand the point you are making on the contraction of the Barbados economy and the inevitable laying off of Barbadian workers and the effect that will have on the BWU membership.Are you trying to say that only Barbadian workers will be laid off and the union will then have to negotiate to protect the the jobs of non-nationals?
Scout
We have only wind bags as leaders,David Thompson,Bobby Morris,Leroy Trotman,Peter Wickham & the rest.Those hum bugs do not stand up and showed backbone when required.
Scout your prediction of anarchy might come to be a reality one day coming soon.I know that this inept government is trying but it is not bold enough to carry out the comprehensive clean up of the immigration situation as it promise it will do.This government is capitulating to pressures from certain interest groups and reactionary forces in this island.
Scout,We must always remind David Thompson that we the people of Barbados made him Prime Minister and it is us that could bring him down not the special interest groups and the reactionary forces that are influencing his decisions.
David Thompson the wind bag act in the interest of the masses of Black Barbadians that elected you as Prime Minister or we make this country ungovernable I promise you that.
@ Negroman
David is absolutely right on this subject,even here in the United States the largest unions actually do protect illegal immigrants & with the ascension of Democrats in power in the Legislative & Executive.They have probably the most influence of any group here in the United States.It is basically all about money not membership.
I appreciate very much Gear Box’s invitation to re-engage this issue and would want to begin by directly addressing this UN Report that some are suggesting I have run away from. I have read what I can of the report online and it seems to be suggesting that there is evidence of racial discrimination in Guyana and moreover that this discrimination takes place within state agencies and negatively affects the well-being of racial minorities.
The BU family might be surprised to hear that this information does not surprise me, nor does it negate any of my previous assertions. I can’t speak for Norman Faria, but I am inclined to believe that there is evidence of racial discrimination against Afros there at present, in the same way that there was evidence of racial discrimination against Indos there during the Burnham-PNC era. My thesis is not that there is no discrimination, but that discrimination is not caused by the mere presence of large numbers of Indos and moreover that Indos are not genetically or culturally inclined to discriminate because of their Hindu beliefs. To my mind this is simple enough. So yes I believe there is discrimination, although we can disagree about the extent of such, but the issue is the root cause and if that root cause will be imported into Barbados along with the Indo Guyanese that have come. I believe we should as a society begin to understand the roots of prejudice and discrimination as a way of ensuring that it does not happen here.
Sadly I detect some nasty manifestations of racism and prejudice emerging in this debate which tells me that Dr. Gibson’s message is not lost on several people who are looking for an excuse to oppress Indo-Guyanese. When I read one apparently White Barbadian’s reference to the body odour of Indos (as he argued) I can only hope that the danger of Dr. Gibson’s views is now clearer.
The related contribution from Gear Box is thoughtful as it relates to the types of objectives that governance needs to achieve, but I suspect it will be lost in the debate which has become quite venomous.
So sad, I went back and read what some of you wrote, Negroman said, they should be eradicated, WOW, eradicated is a harsh word, but I shudder to see it placed alongside humans, the so called white Barbadian says pelt them down, well not so long ago my dear cousin attended Howard University in Washington DC and just because she was black she was restricted in where she could go, yes in the 50′s in Washington DC the capital city of the USA. In that same period young Emmett Till went down to south to Mississippi (sp off) and he was lynched because they said he had whistled at a white woman, when in fact he did no such thing, but never in my wildest dreams would I have thought I would have seen this sort of thing coming from our Caribbean black poeple, and I will tell you this today is the East Indian people and tomorrow is people who are half black, ah Negroman hates half black people.
We should try yo stay true to this debate. All Peter needs to latch to an exit strategy from this discussion is to focus on commenters who engage in extreme comment. We find the part of the comment by Peter interesting:
It just makes us wonder what’s all the disagreement about. We are making progress, Mr. Wickham has conceded on this point of learned behaviour possibly being imported. What we need is for this matter to be researched, we need scietific positions offered to the people. The rhetoric fed by all in this matter needs to stop.
Jay
I respect your views on this immigration issue,however,I do not think that a comparison between a big industrialised country like the USA & Barbados is relevant.The USA can absorbed millions of illegal immigrants because of the sheer scope of the workforce where illegal immigrant workers performed basically jobs that US citizens really do not want.In Barbados it is completely different scenario.Both locals & non-nationals are competing for the few jobs available in Barbados today. Tell me how can that be fair in a small economy like Barbados. Isn’t that a recipe for anarchy?Jay the unemployment figures in Barbados are rising daily.It has reached double digits
Peter Wickham you have said nothing as usual.I think you are shallow.Critique the UN report with your usual expertise.
Supposedly, there was racial discrimination against East Indians at the end of PM Burnham’s rule of Guyana. Remember now when LFSB came to power there were very few Indians in the civil service, most of the East Indians were on the sugar estates. The few East Indians that were qualified were place in high positions at the beginning of LFSB’s rule, but what happened these people were not loyal to LFSB or the Guyanese state. They liked their positions, but they were always looking back at Dr. Jagan. Remember now it is LFSB that brought East Indians into the teaching profession, the nursing profession and so on, it was LFSB that made all the Hindi and Moslem holy days national holidays, and allowed them to wear their native clothes on special days.
Mr. Peter, I hope you know that the Portuguese of Guyana were very racist too. Oh yes, when they lived in large numbers in Guyana we could not touch them with a ten foot pole.
I was once talking to a white New Zealander and I was telling him about Guyana and he told me that the East Indians and Austrailian Aborignee are of the same genetic background. however, with the Indians and to some extent the Aborignee they procreated with the white man and that is how they look today. Look at a picture of the Aborignee and you will see Indians look just like them, especially in the South of India. The Indians don’t have the genetic make up of Caucausians, Africans or Asians, they are totally different, their own racial group.
Can someone not born a Hindu and not Indian become a Hindu? What is the prescribed punishment for converting from Islam to another religion? The correct answers may explain the reservations of some towards this “there is nothing to fear about large numbers of Indians” position.
I have a far bigger beef with White Bajans particularly the likes of Allan Fields who would claim in public that the race issue between Whites and Blacks in Barbados will improve at an evolutionary pace (that means over many, many generations). I have a beef with places like St. Winifred’s School, Harbour Lights, Mix96 FM, BBS and the Yacht Club. A population as small as our local White population should have been bred out of existence by now but the fact that it hasn’t suggests a huge amount of snobbery on the part of Whites. The spineless Black people seem comfortable not only looking the other way, but supporting White enterprise.
Sure, pick on the Indians… The Whites have been making you shite for generations so I somebody has got to pay.
Anon said:
I was once talking to a white New Zealander and I was telling him about Guyana and he told me that the East Indians and Austrailian Aborignee are of the same genetic background. however, with the Indians and to some extent the Aborignee they procreated with the white man and that is how they look today. Look at a picture of the Aborignee and you will see Indians look just like them, especially in the South of India. The Indians don’t have the genetic make up of Caucausians, Africans or Asians, they are totally different, their own racial group.
——————————————————
For your information recent genetic research based on the “Y” chromosome is showing that all mankind today is descended from original inhabitants of East Africa.
They moved north into Europe, East into grasslands of the East, South East into India, and eventually into Australia and New Zealand. The North American Indians came later across from Eastern Russia via the Bering Sea, and over the centuries migrated south into the Andes and eastern South America.
Differences in pigmentation, physical features etc came about through environment, diet and customs. The Indians from Southern India are more “African” due to their climate and more closely resemble the people of Eastern Africa. Geographical distance and the caste system in India – which discriminates against dark skinned Indians – essentially ensures that they do not easily intermix with the lighter skinned Indians of the North.
The historical records show that most of the immigrant labour contracted under Indentureship after 1838 came from Southern India, and was drawn from the lowest castes – dark skinned labourers. In many parts of India today one will find people with dark skin and obvious African features. They are of the lowest castes like the Dalits. This learned cultural behavior is ingrained in Indians and is one of the theses of Dr. Gibson’s books.
Another factor that is sometimes “hidden” by Indians, is that most immigrants were male and they cohabited with the Africans, thus some Indians in this region do have “local African ancestry”, as seen in their hair and features. Like some of the “Red People” who here in Barbados and elsewhere think they are “pure White” (if there is such a thing), these Indians are “Dougla” or mixed Afro-Indians.
In any case their ancestors are Africans although they would refuse to believe it..however …. Science does not lie! Indians, like all mankind, are descended from Africans. (Check the various recent studies posted on the Internet for the facts…)
No, a person cannot convert to Hinduism, not to my knowledge, at least not in Guayna, there is a Hindu Temple not far from my house in Guyana, and they never came to my door saying they trying to convert me, now I have had the Baptist, Johovah’s Witness, AME, and so on canvass me, and all I saw were Indians going into that Hindu Temple. I will say this, theya re fervent Christians once they accept Jesus as their personal saviour, now I know nothing about thier religion or what it stands for, and I know nothing about Islam, but I have seen some of our people convert to Islam in Guyana, but I have never see them with the Indian Moslems, so I don’t know.
Thank you Ecoanalyst, Wonderful piece by you, Thank You
@Negroman,
What I forgot to mention was that the money from illegal immigrants go to the Unions here in the U.S. & in return the Unions usually protect their illegal members from deportation.
I assume the same thing is happening with BWU.
Phew, EcoanaIyst, you just saved me from a speII of mind-boggIedness at that New ZeaIander’s expIanations and I had started my own repIy, now don’t have to. Next we wiII be hearing the stork brings babies. A person can convert to Hinduism. PeopIe do it aII the time. They don’t try to convert you door to door its not a proseIitysing reIigion to the extent of Christianity or IsIam but you do get the Hare Krishna peopIe going round chanting Krishna’s name. This worked weII in the West where you see pasty Iooking teens in robes roaming around chanting. A person can aIso covert from IsIam, as Iong as they don’t mind the death penaIty! IsIam not onIy wants you to convert but if you don’t the poIicy is “death to infideIs” i.e bIow up the infideI disco in BaIi or Soho. Yes the caste system is terribIe but tends not to thrive away from Mother Ganges, witness the many inter caste marriages in UK and US. However, be wary of IsIam as fundamentaIism thrives when abroad. If you want to worry, worry about sharia Iaw many musIim cIerics wouId dearIy Iove to impose aII over the worId. Pakistan is having that probIem right now.
Victor
How the hell do you know that Muslims “bIew up the infideI disco in BaIi or Soho”? Sure Muslims are an easy group to accuse and target but Blacks are the easiest group to fool and prostitute..!
Jay, Without unions, these poor illegal workers in the USA have to give sexual favours to bossmen, the female ones, plus in some instances so many hours in salary, and the male workers have to give, sometimes two weeks salary just to keep the job, plus endure all sorts of indignities.
http://www.statisticsguyana.gov.gy/pubs/Chapter2_Population_Composition.pdf
This link shows the population and religious makeup of Guyana’ s population in the 2002 Census.
When this census was announced it was reported that Hindus were the majority in Guyana’s population. This is blatantly incorrect and is typical of the Hindu controlled government which wanted to perpetuate this lie.
The statistics show that Hindus are 30%(225,601). The majority of Guyanese ( 57.4%- 430,343) are Christians if one adds up all of the denominations that have been listed separately in this report to make Christians look like they were the minority. Muslims are 7.2% (53,781).
These statistics may shock many but they reflect the fact that Guyana has always had a majority of Christians or people who claimed to be Christians. How is this? Many Indians have converted over the years – many to the Pentecostal churches- the fastest growing Christian group (125,331 – 16.7%). I have seen letters in the papers criticizing the fact that Hindus are becoming Christians… some charging that they are doing this to more easily “get into America”.
There are also other trends within the population of 751,225. Here I show the 2002 vs the 1991 statistics to show these trends:
Africans; 2002= 227,062 (30.20%) vs 233,465 (32.26%) in 1991.
Amerindians: 2002= 68,675 (9.16%) vs 46,722 (6.46%) in 1991.
East Indian: 2002= 326,277 (43.45%) vs 351,939 (48.63%) in 1991.
Mixed: 2002= 125,727 (16.73%) vs 87,881 (12.14%).
These four categories represent 99.54% of the inhabitants. Incidentally the census does not identify the growing Portuguese population from Brazil now living in Guyana, as they are not citizens.
What it does show is that during the PPP years of government since 1992, that the African population has gone up slightly while the East Indian population has decreased by some 25,000. It also shows increases in the Amerindian and “Mixed” categories, which is now some 26 % of the population. These trends may affect the outcome of the elections in 2011, if there is waning support for the PPP.
It is somewhat interesting that with an Indian dominated Hindu leaning PPP government in control that there has been such an outflow of Indians overseas looking for a better life. It could be that they are emigrating for a time to earn money to send home to build their houses etc…. or it could be also the unstable economic/political/ racial situation in Guyana where people see no hope in their future there.
The economic downturn worldwide does not seem to be suppressing the people smuggling (backtrack) business, in Guyana, or the long lines getting passports and visas. There has been a reduction in remittances home (over $450M US in 2007) as the overseas economies contract. Guyana has been exporting its economic problems by exporting people. This “export” has also helped the country’s GNP with remittances. That is what Jagdeo and Faria are so supportive of this outflow. Now, this escape valve is closing and Guyana has to get serious about fixing its internal problems as outlined in the recent U.N. and USAID reports.
There is absolutely no reason why Guyana cannot CHANGE and become a positive force in developing itself and the Region. This will not happen if the current PPP politicians refuse to free their peoples and share the benefits of the economy with all races so that they can be the best they could be.
Governance should benefit ALL the people, and not just their Indian supporters and Indian”businessmen” who benefit from the present setup whereby Guyana is their private plantation.
I just came across an interesting article by the Guyanese columnist, Freddie Kissoon who writes for the Kaieteur News.. headlined “FLYING PEOPLE”.
He raises some very interesting points, already highlighted by me and others in this Blog re the increasing seriousness of Guyanese emigration to Barbados… especially in these difficult economic times.
http://www.kaieteurnews.com/2009/04/13/flying-people/
If freddie kisson a guyanese of indian descent could be so honest and tell us that barbados is heading for trouble as the build up of guyanese in barbados continues,then how come peter wickham that dim wit can’t get what kean gibson and others are saying.
@ Ecoanalyst
April 13, 2009 Columnists, Freddie Kissoon wrote:-
“That influx seems to have irritated PM Thompson. Thompson’s response is that “we are too small.”
“Barbados is bursting at the seam.”
The truth is about 70% of the population of Barbados lives between Christ Church and St. Michael. Any talk about bursting at the seam is nonsense and engineered to cause panic.
April 13, 2009 Columnists, Freddie Kissoon wrote:-
” Arthur, who did nothing to make him lose, did lose”
Arthur lost because he and his gang were spending as if money was going out of style. They were also living high off the hog. If more Guyanese could have voted they probably would have voted against the BLP for the same reason. Three terms is enough… tah much!
Singapore has a population of well over four million and are only slightly bigger than Barbados. They are one of the most developed countries in the world and they have no natural resources other than people. Hmmm.
Black people..!
Thank you Ecoanalysis, I have been saying to them frequently here that the majority of people in Guyana are African, black, coloured, have your choice of name, but no one listens, all I read is about Indian, and let me tell you after LFSB rule quite a few black people voted for the PPP, this might not happen again in 2011. Now you all stay clear of Freddy Kissoon, stay clear, and trust me, he is up in here reading minute by minute what is written, that is why such an editorial yesterday.
And one last thing those overseas Indians that left Guyana are not going back, they rather punish in New York than return to Guyana, they see Guyana as black people country, some of them if you ask them where they are form, they say South America, you have to dig out Guyana from them.
Malta is 120 sq miles and has 1/2 million people. Freddy Kissoon says Barbados is one of earth’s most inhabitied territories, I guess he meant densely populated. I think you needed those extra Guyanese to help grow your economy, you had jobs, and they came.
BAFBFP says that since white people juck out the Black people right eye, we should now let the Indians juck out the left eye!
No! BAFBFP is saying that both the Indian and the Black people should work together so that the White people don’t get the chance to see one set juck out the eye of the other set!
There is a guy on this blog who refers to himself as Buffalo Soldier. Well it was the Buffalo soldiers who served as cannon fodder in the US Civil War, and the Spanish-American War (in Cuba) and the so-called Second World War (when on returning home to the US hundreds were lynched to remind the set that they were still just Niggers). The Buffaloes were very useful against the Indigenous peoples too (so-called Indian Wars) where they brutally went after the few Natives that got away from the White people.
No, no, no.! This Indian vs Black thing is a proxy conflict and the sooner you ignorant Black commentators recognise this, the better.
Singapore depends on Malaysia for half its water. Singapore (classified as having a tropical rain forest climate) gets the other half of its water needs from rain water catchment. Now where would this desert island (Barbados) , hundreds of miles from South America get enough water to support even more people and economic activity?
BAFBFP, the musIim fundamentaIists cIaimed responsibiIity for both bombings/attempted bombings.
“Indian and Black people should work together..” and this has happened where or when?
Victor
I have never seen a Bin Laden video… have you?
Anon
It will happen here but first we must rid this place of simpletons. The now question is “and this has happened where or when?”
If there is one thing that Barbadian Governments know how to waste (other than foreign exchange) IT IS WTAER… Millions and millions of gallons every year with no policy in sight to trap rain water during the wet season…!
You should read up on the Singapore model. One thing you will find if you do is the physical planning which is present be it in the planning of the transportation system, housing, industrial estates, healthcare etc. This is why they can cater to large numbers to support the GDP output they currently enjoy. Last time we checked Barbados had a little way to go. Not knocking our development to date mind you!
@ David
Maxine McLean’s very public sentiment one year before she became a big up Minister and Senator is that the way forward is recognising that managed migration is necessary and unavoidable and that more resources should be targeted at capacity planning and building.
My take is that rather than stop people from coming you should recognise that they will come and do what is necessary to accommodate them now and in the future. A population of a quarter million is a joke in the global scheme of things. To think that we spend 200 mil on a stadium that will only be used once a year.
BAFPFP My point being that those who strap bombs to themseIves, bIow up girIs schooIs and jaiI women for being raped are scarier than economic immigrants. But you must admit, uncontroIIed waves of immigrants of another cuIture who stick together, dont bother to Iearn the Ianguage and in a mainIy Christian society cIaim that Christmas decorations are offensive to them, for instance, can be just as destructive to the society they settIe in, especiaIIy when they demand sharia Iaw in their new country!
Victor
And my point is that this so-called war on Terror is all about deception. You the innocent public and consumers of Western media hype cannot claim to really know or what is doing these things that are portrayed.
And planning for immigrants must of necessity include a clause in the acceptance of these new Barbadians that the law of the land is paramount and not substituted. You will be asked to pledge allegiance as is the custom in bigger countries (though I think this a cosmetic waste of time).
Now here is “my” bias. I like looking and women so I have a problem with all this cover up thing.
Freddie kissoon’s article gives a lot of food for thought and has me thinking.
Here we are in Bim struggling to earn foreign exchange and yet we have a parasite next door in basdeo jagdeo as fast as we earn a U.S. $ his thiefs and prostitutes and low life dregs just waiting to grab it up and export it to guyana.
According to freddie kisson this guyanese problem is especially severe in Antigua,Trinidad and barbados.
Now tell me again what contribution they are making; forging I.D. cards and passports,overcrowding the schools and polyclinics,undecutting bajan workers for their jobs,breaking up bajan families ,squatting and posoining our water system and on and on.
No one wants these guyanese pests,now why would that be?
There’s this idea prevaiIing that there’s mysterious foes working against us but that’s not the case. PeopIe on the ground can see what’s happening for them own seIves. So stop the rot, get into poIitics, Iay down the ruIes and get counted. Every Barbadian needs to Iook at the big picture, get invoIve and put their foot down before there is a major riot.
BAFBFP
April 13th @ 7/10a.m
You stated that 70% of the population in Barbados live between Ch.Ch and St.Michael. Are you implying that there is lots of open spaces in Barbados, uninhabited? Please come a show Min Lashley because he is searching all over this country looking for any vacant land that he can construct houses on. For your information and since you obviously don’t live here, there is little vacant land in Barbados and the Government is now considering building highrise houses to satisfy the need for housing . Please don’t talk about things you know nothing about.
Only today, I was in the company of some ordinary/ average bajans and they are very worried about the immediate future of Barbados. Two of them small business men, and the are lamenting that their businesses are showing signs of big slowdown. Also, some of the big establishments they work for are reluctant in paying on time as they did before. This is putting their business in a cashflow problem. Things are getting rough in Barbados and people are feting as though there is no tomorrow. When reality hit bajans, they are going to retaliateand this is what scares me.
Victor,I don’t think BAFBFP will ever get the point.This conversation will get nowhere since everyone has their own ardent position on the matter no matter the idea to support your argument,but I completely agree with you.We cannot continue to support a massive population that could disrupt our world standing & the very idea that some would even like to create laws to welcome those who choose to disrupt our peaceful island is deplorable & in some cases I dare say anti-Bajan.
The additional point MUST be made that the the social services of Barbados i.e.roads, healthcare, housing, security, education etc are at capacity. This has been admited by people from all sides of the issue. To those who preach about Barbados building out its carry capacity to support inflow, how realistic is that approach?
If there is an apparent shortage of land it is because of two basic things.
1 White people like COW who have bought up so much and are leaving it to “ripen”
and
2. The Government who will have you believe that there is a shortage whether than just do the sensible thing and build high rise accommodation rather than be the cowards that politicians are in finding straw man excuses to avoid political fall out. A right to own a piece of the rock my ass.
Scout, know that responding to Christians no matter the topic is not something that I do with any amount of pride.
Jay,
Obviously there then is no point to be had..!
Victor
Get the Governance thing and infrastructural thing right or at least recognise that this is where the problem is with a view to correcting them before you start to rant and rave like Negroman or is it N*ggerman.
Jay, thanks for your support but I think we are aII on the same side here BAFBP and us are basicaIIy in agreement. Never mind the war on terror etc. just Iets Iook at our own personaI histories as an isIand and work out a way to protect ourseIves from being dominated by white tourism as the singIe way forward to earn money and figure out a pIan to monitor and controI cheap Iabour and stop seIIing Iand.
I don’t appreciate you calling our Guyanese people low life dregs, lots of great and wonderful Guyanese have contributed to the progress, stability and well being of Barbados, and I could name many of these wonderful people, but will refrain.
Please don’t blame President Jagdeo for your problems, President Jagdeo inherited big problems. People have been leaving Guyana in droves since the 50′s. People can leave Guyana, we don’t stop people from leaving, and we cannot control the behaviour of Guyanese in other countries, hoepfully your policemen are capable of this task.
Let me tell you something, I am a big President Jagdeo fan, and I am not an Indian, President Jagdeo in his few years is tranforming Guyana for the betterment of all Guyanese, I would not go into details, he has his critics, but when all is said and done he alone has brought this country to where it should have been years ago, now his detractors say all sorts of things, but let us see if they could have brought us debt relief. When President Jagdeo came to power we had a 2 billion US dollar debt, President Jagdeo inherited that from President Burnham. President Burnham ran up a debt that was the highest per capita in the world, but it was President Jagdeo that has brought it down considerably.
You can say what you like, but a country servicing a 2 million US dollar debt does not have much money left for development, we have had to de-value our dollar thus to service our debt, so you see not much left for nicities, that is why the Guyanese left for opportunities abroad. This is not President Jagdeo’s fault. And in closing let me tell you Preisdent Jagdeo is not a racist or a bad person, he is a good man, now there might be discrimination in the civil service, but don’t blame President Jagdeo, but if there is discrinmation it should be brought to President Jagdeo or Dr. Luncheon’s attention.
Another thing, bear in mind, Miss Gay McDougal does not know Guyanese society, Guyanese are very sensitive, and the least action will be taken as racism.
BAFBFP writes that Blacks and Indians will work together “..here but first we must rid this place of simpletons”. I shall miss him although I am not sure that will bring this great togetherness that he implicitly acknowledges has NOT happened anywhere in the world yet.
Anyway PM Thompson has gone on record that B’dos cannot take much more people. BAFBFP needs to make his case with Thompson before leaving.
Anonymous
Yep I be simple but you spotted it quick enough. Maybe you be one too. Get over ya’self, bigot. And maybe PM thompson is speakint through the side of his mouth as most politicians do, from time to time.
BAFBFP
even Hopi try to get it thru that thick skull of yours that this love up and feel all right ain’t happening between Blacks and Indians. Them Indians know about buffaloes though. The Whites doing the dog bout here and you sending for the Indian cavalry! Next thing you are going to tell me about Jesus.
BAFBFP wrote at 8:31 p.m. on April 12th “A population as small as our local White population should have been bred out of existence by now but the fact that it hasn’t suggests a huge amount of snobbery on the part of Whites.”
Not to take up for the white Bajans nor anything so. But unless you are suggesting rape, the only way for a population to be “bred out of existence” is through consensual sexual intercourse. Has it occurred to you that perhaps black Bajans are not interested in having sexual intercourse with white Bajans?
victor wrote on april 13th at 2;57 a.m. “If you want to worry, worry about sharia Iaw many musIim cIerics wouId dearIy Iove to impose aII over the worId.”
I wouldn’t worry too much about that. The British tried for more that 300 years to impose Christianity on Barbados and Barbados is still not a Christian society. People go to church on Sundays (or Saturdays) and pay no attention at all to Christian teaching during the rest of the week.
BAFBFP wrote on April 13th at 11:16 a.m. “but first we must rid this place of simpletons. ”
How do you propose to rid a place of simpletons?
And after you have “got rid of the simpletons” who is next in line to be got rid of?
And who makes the decision as to who is, or is not, a simpleton?
And what happens when the deciders are wrong?
Just a few questions from this simpleton.
Tek ya time to answer.
Alright, alright. If you don’t agree with me you’re simple, simple as hell. And maybe we should be getting rid of people whose name begins with J.
“In these tiny theatres of conflict and confusion
Better known as the isles of the West Indies
We already know who brought us here
And who created this confusion
So I’m begging, begging my people please!”
David Rudder
No one could have said it better.
Truth is I am as guilty of bigotry as the rest of you, but my disgust is targeted at Whites, Bajan Whites in particular, for every conceivable reason. I live here and I do not like what I see with regards to them. How could you people be so tolerant of these people and yet be so hostile towards another disadvantaged class who are seeking a fresh start?
I get the point that Indians and Afros/Indonesians have seldom shown an ability to work together. Indians in the main believe that Afros are lazy and Afros in the main believe that Indos are clannish and conniving.
You know what, dey got a whole lot ah lazy ass Black people out dey so the Indians got a bit of a point.
And dey gotta whole bunch of Indians who believe that the fairer the skin the better and who I wouldn’t trust with a tray of ice so the Blacks gotta bit of a point too.
But dey got lazy ass Indians too and tiefing untrustworthy Black people too.
So here is the thing
Understand that this land was here long before any of us so called Bajans were forced to live here. And a quarter million people as a market to develop serious industrial effort is a farcical figure. The people that thrive in miniscule markets (the medics, merchants, lawyers, bankers, insurance, construction and a few other advertising related entities) would very much like things to remain the way there are. If it ain’t broke.
My belief is that the size of the population determines the level of complexity in industrial development that that population could achieve. As long as there is water between the countries of the Caribbean there will be no true single market and economy, and we will continue to serve tourists and sell land to earn real money (not BDS or EC or TnT) for a long time to come. So I want Barbados to have a big ass population so that real industrial development can take place. If the mistrust between the races is recognised, proper public education on the subject would start the ball rolling to help bridge any gaps before they get to wide. But the issue of redesigning our form of governance is paramount in ensuring that no one group disadvantages the other from a governmental stand point. Then there is capacity building which includes efforts at conservation of those resources which we now so readily waste. All of this takes planning and effort. But no, it is so much easier to spew contempt at newcomers with out trying to understand the issues and working at ways to solve the known potential problems.
Human beings solve or try to solve problems, nincompoops, sorry simpletons merely hate.
BAFBFP
nah yah got it wrong! Simpletons think that they alone got the truth and if only the rest of us would see it their way then all will be well! At least you pass your simpleton test by merely hating whites!
Yuh quoting Rudder? Wuhlossie yuh real bouge doh! Where dis super West Indian living ?…up in Canada, rallying round the West Indies!
Guyanese are not the only people that seek opportunties overseas. Look at Suriname, there are 400,000 Surinamers in Holland, look at Jamaica, nice Jamaica with only black people living there and close to a 800,000 of them in the US and Canada, nice black Jamaica exporting people. Look at the Domincan Republic all black people there and yet they are close to a 1million of them in the US and Canada. In fact 44,000 of your people live in the USA, ah wonder WHY.
Haiti ain’t got a “big ass population”? Dey big in boat and raft building so I suppose that is “real industrial development”!
Haiti has two insurmountabke problems.
The United States of America and a so-called democratic process that facilitates the instalmant of lackey Governments. (Rediculous reparations to France are no longer part of the mix).
I am being moderated!!! Says something. Bring it on.
BAFBFP wrote at 8:31 p.m. on April 12th “A population as small as our local White population should have been bred out of existence by now”
In the absence of consensual sexual intercourse are you suggesting that white Bajan men rape black Bajan women? or are you suggesting that black Bajan men rape white Bajan women?
Maybe you are too young to know or remember, but women do not always take rape lying down.
I don’t know if you recall the woman who was raped by her stepfather and then by her first husband. When her second husband tried that sh*te she let him have a rammer in the head. When she was finished with that b*st*rd the undertaker put “pancake-head” in his coffin and sent him to Westbury.
Don’t start thinking that you are no Janjaweed.
If you try to encourage Bajan men in that sh*te not a single Bajan man will be able to sleep quietly in his bed.
Bajan women black and white tired of male arrogance and foolishness. We baiting for you.
In case you don’t know what a rammer is I’d be happy to do a show and tell with you. My father (God Bless him) worked in construction and left me one.
Actually J
I was thinking that the White Bajan women should rape the Black Bajan men. Don’t get me wrong..
Ya lie.
Ya wasn’t thinking at all.
Next time think the thing through before you write foolishness.
J You picky human being. Rape is serious business but the wiiiiiiiiider issue is that had their not been racial prejudice in Bim instigated by Whites, the natural order of busines, the law of percentages, the nornal course of affairs between the sexes would have made mixed breeds of the group of them after three hundred years, much of it as an “inbred” population.
And yeah, I would like to see your rammer. I will be more than glad to introduce you *my* rammer.
(This Chris Halsal thing rubbin’ off)
there
This is why blogs turn some people off.
Everytime you have a blog started to discuss serious issues,people run from one blog to the next and completely dominate the blog with garbage.
While freedom of expression allows some latitude,you really have to wonder about person’s state of mind who think that they must post 5 and 6 posts in one go ,just in case you did not get their point the first time.
Invariably all this does is drive off those persons who find this behaviour bothersome.
Ah well.
Negroman // April 12, 2009 at 7:04 pm
Peter Wickham you have said nothing as usual.I think you are shallow.Critique the UN report with your usual expertise.
————————————————–
Peter Wickham is a lot of things. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wACPASjT_C0 to a lot of people. One thing that is certain is that he is engaged in social engineering, but he is only a poll-taker;….why people continue to answer qestions from his cadres field people is beyond me. He has not had much success with his attempted social reconstruction, and this is probably why he resorts to “cussing” , “attempting to belittle others, and gets “emotional” when people don’t buy into what he is selling. He continues to hide behind the flimsy excuse he gives for the inconsistencies of the two article I have previously mention.
We are not interested in what CAUSED the racial divide in Guyana and neither does Caricom leaders. WE ARE CONCERNED ABOUT THE RESULTS OF THE RACIAL DIVIDE IN GUYANA, AND THE GUYANESE WHO ARE PRACTICING IT. You cannot point out that you are Guyanese without reference to the daily practices of the Guyanese citizenry .The racism, and ethinic divisions in it’s many forms are a fact of life in todays Guyana.
I will ask again, is it now to be accepted that a people will put away their practices, their norms, their steriotypes etc, simply on migrating to another country/society?????
Adrian
Thank you for lighting a candle in the midst of the darkness of minds like peter wickham.
I agree with your above sentiment.
Peter Wickham said:
—————————
I think that by now the BU family should realize that I am driven by a personal philosophy that rejects discrimination in every single manifestation
Peter Wickham went on to say the following:
——————————–
Hence you will find a similar perspective emerging from my “pen”, regardless of whether the issue is that of discrimination against INDO GUYANESE, ACADEMIC UNDERCHIEVERS, HOMOSEXUAL, or the ECONOMICALLY DISADVANTAGE.
Peter Wickham further stated:
—————————–
I have always been inspired by a well-known poem by Martin Niemöller entitled “First They Came…” Niemöller was a German Pastor and Intellectual who criticized German intellectuals for their silence during Hitler’s reign. He said:
“When the Nazis came for the communists, I remained silent; I was not a communist. Then they locked up the social democrats, I remained silent; I was not a social democrat. Then they came for the trade unionists, I did not speak out; I was not a trade unionist. Then they came for the Jews, I did not speak out; I was not a Jew. WHEN THEY CAME FOR ME, there was no one left to speak out for ME”…
===========================
Adrian Hinds said:
I gathered that he views Barbados immigration laws as discriminatory towards Indo Guyanese. Indeed, I have heard him to say that he rejects all borders and barriers to free movement wherever they may exist. This has ended the conversation for me with Peter on the subject. Nevertheless, I want to go a little further because I do not think Peter is genuine in his anti Discrimination campaign, for as he says it he is driven by a PERSONAL philosophy. The right or wrong of it apparently is subordinated to his PERSONAL philosophy. Therefore, what is this Personal philosophy? He gave four categories of persons to illustrate the depth and scope of his anti discrimination position. I will assume that his Personal philosophy has a Barbadian context to it in this regard. Indeed, it must be so, because he clearly thinks Barbadians to be Homophobes and xenophobes, and these labels speaks to behavior directed at two of the categories of persons he feels compel to defend. Thinking of the four categories of persons he mentioned, his personal philosophy, the society in which he seeks to defends these groups, the society of xenophobes and homophobes from which these groups need to shielded and being inspired by Martin Niemöller poem “First They came. “WHEN THEY COME FOR HIM, which one might he be. Peter?
Anonymous
You people don’t seem to understand Wickham, is just trying to safeguard his job as a regionist. He wants it to appear that he is supporting their cause if he gets work out of Guyana. If you board a flight at Cheddi Jagan Airport as a black man your clour don’t change when you arrive at GAIA. Also when you board that same flight with a dislike for blacks, you can’t arrive here and tell me we blacks are the best people in the world. The hatred is already engrained in you from a baby and it can’t change on a one hour flight into Barbados. I experience blatant discrimination almost every day from these indo-guyanese.
The illegal immigration problem I believe is being effectively dealt with in a systematic way by this government.I visited Oistins over the Easter weekend and was generally pleased with
the make up of the crowd.I saw very few Indo-Guyanese and the crowd was nearly 100 % Black and that pleased me a lot.I am beginning to see less and less Indo-Guyanese and I know a clamp down is in effect and we are beginning to see the results.I know we still have a sizeable amount of Indo-Guyanese in Barbados but I believe that small group could be control until we get them out of Barbados..Praise should be given when it is due and some praise must be given to this government in its effort to control the illegal immigration problem with special emphasis on the Indo-Guyanese.
.
Peter Wickham
Your argument has been ripped to shreds by many of the bloggers on this site.Your argument was weak and you knew it that is why you cannot come back and defend it.I am happy to hear that you finally concede that Indo-Guyanese are racist and that racism could be and will be exported to countries those Indo-Guyanese decide to live.
In Guyana the Minister responsible for Home Affairs Clement Rohee cannot get an American Visa and neither the Commissioner of Police Henry Greene.Those 2 individuals were denied Visas because of those 2 person involvement in human rights abuses against Black-Guyanese.That says a lot about the type of society Guyana is today.Do we want that type of society in Barbados?
If we do not want Barbados to be destroy we must limit the number of Indo-Guyanese wanting to live in Barbados
Yes,the Barbados Immigration Department is definitely being given the necessary tools to effectively identify who is in the country illegally.This is mainly through the Government’s E-government initiative to modernize the Department’s system as well as the training given to the Department by the US embassy concerning immigration tactics.
Jay, It may be true that the Immigration Department is getting stricter with this matter, but it is directed to all people from Guyana and elsewhere. A few nights ago they turned away 12 persons from GT, the racial mix was about 50/50 Indian and African Guyanese…. and it seems that this is an ongoing process.
Negroman, do not be fooled by the absence of Indians at Oistins. That is a “blackman” event, which even the Indians who have lived here for decades, and born here will not attend – however they will sell their goods there.
Indians keep a low profile, so do not be fooled. They save their money while we spend ours on partying and in their shops. They hardly ever go to events that are not culturally Indian. This is so in Barbados as well as Guyana,
Remember that the focus of the Indian is economic and that politics is only uses to speedup the economic control. If it cannot be done through the ballot box, then it is done through bribes and “special gifts”. The same can be said of most of the local Whites and half-whites who control commerce in Barbados along with the Indians.
As for Peter Wickham. He is actually a very intelligent and learned man. However – As Scout says. he has to protect his image as a “Regionalist”. He is a pollster and Guyana has elections in two years.
Look,let’s just speak some home truths here.
Peter wickham is not really too interested in defending disabled,women,indians or any other minorities.
Peter is mainly interested in defending homosexuality.
However the homosexual activists understand that there is no majority support for treating homosexuality on equal footing as heterosexuality.
The prop 8 legislation which banned same sex marriage was passed by the people of california – yes California – that mecca of the homosexual lifestyle ie San Fransisco etc.
So the gays have tried to tag their issue along with the issue of discrimination by blacks in america.
Wickham is doing the same thing now he is seeking to hide under the cover of discrimination against all to hide the fact that he wants the homosexual’s lifestyle to be seen as ‘normal’ – which it is not.
All citizens who do not agree with the homosexual lifestyle need to start speaking up publicly now because the homosexual agenda is getting bolder and bolder because of mia mottley’s push while she was in office.
Notice in this week end newspaper a big ad about gay christians in barbados.
Bajans speak up,yuh hear or forever hold your peace!
What does Guyanese behavioural patterns in another country have to do with homosexuality? Why not focus at the topic at hand.
Adrian, to answer your question about behaviour change in the new homeland. Closeness to Guyana is very important to the overseas Guyanese, first and foremost, and many overseas wish thier children to maintian ties with the Guyanese culture through food, music, and customs, you hear them saying is the Guyanese custom/tradition to give a piece of gold jewelery when a baby is born and so on, just an example, so if Guyanese harbour ill feelings towards certain races in Guyana, then that will be taken with them where ever they go.
Remember now Barbados is geograpically close to Guyana, and this makes it easy for the constant flow of people to Barbados from Guyana, and this aspect maintians the ties and re-enforces the Guyanese cultural norms in Barbados. Look at the Guyanese community in the US in Queens, Richmond Hill, Holllis, very close ties amongst that community with Guyana, that a major US airline operates a route between New York and Georgetown to facilitate travel for the Guyanese between the two cities. It will take generations to change attitudes. I hope I have answered the question.
Sister baby
We ignoring you,yuh can’t see?
Yes Ah seeing, but knowing me and my indominable Guyanese spirit I still writing and having fun. I guess it is safe for me to say I am suffering discrimination on the Bajan blogs, ah hope Dr. Kean seeing this.
What good is the blog without a Guyanese ranting and raving, you need me up in here, and David know that.
Anonymous wrtoe at 6:59 p.m.
“he wants the homosexual’s lifestyle to be seen as ‘normal’ – which it is not…
All citizens who do not agree with the homosexual lifestyle need to start speaking up publicly now”
Please note that I am in favour of the heterosexual lifestyle for heterosexuals and in favour of the homosexual lifestyle for homosexuals.
The homosexual lifestyle is normal if you are homosexual.
I would be extremely queer if a homosexual lived a heterosexual lifestyle.
Counting 1…..2…. soon 3…..and 4 or 5 posts to make the same point.
Nice……reeeeeaaaal nice.
Dear Anonymous:
Nitey night. Tomorrow is a work day (-:
Look Anonymous, Stop the counting, you like some British overseer, since when the blog is now a sugar plantation, you counting how many times it takes a person to answer a question.
Such character assassination of a very worthwhile West Indian… and just because he holds a different opinion. The worst thing about human nature is human nature itself. I would be surprised if he returns to respond to this lynch mob.
Victor @ 13th – Your points are sound!
Anonymous @ 14th – I agree with you. I believe that Mr. Wickham thunders the “benefits” of regionalism soely due to his occupation in selling his polling services regionally.
Also, his unyeilding campaign in “defense of minorities” most likely is a veil for once very public (but now subdued)support of the homosexual lifestyle.
Facts
J – “The homosexual lifestyle is normal if you are a homosexual”
If I am sick, but I don’t believe I am sick; does that make me not sick?
When we try to live our own lives as we please, without resort to God; folly becomes wisdom.
How did the blog get homosexual, must be agents from Guyana derailing the topic at hand, my goodness, de Scout was right.
the ‘Anonymous’ defender of PPP Crime Family. Inc is an agent of the Guyana East Indian Cocaine Apologist Council
doesn’t seem like the hood wink is working on the Bajans here
Clico Guyana is dead – Maria Van Beek
http://propagandapress.org/2009/04/15/clico-guyana-is-dead-maria-van-beek/
Afro-Guyanese are crazy, keep them powerless – Kaieteur News
http://propagandapress.org/2009/04/09/afro-guyanese-are-crazy-keep-them-powerless-kaieteur-news/
Look here Propanganda Press, you keep on pressing on, don’t stop in here with foolishness against me, for the only agent I work for is Jesus Christ, and I tell you I am trying to keep God’s people safe and sound with my rehtoric. I don’t buy into the race thing, for I know who I am, and I know the generalisations they make about my people, but the fact remains we have to get along, so why should I as a Seventh Day Adventist cause that divide to get wider. My advice to you is to perfect your roti making skills and stop accusing me. You have East Indians friends, I know that, so you need to tow the line more than I.
So glad propoganda press put sister baby who is now posting as anonymous – in her/his place.
This guyanese tool of basdeo jagdeo has told sooooo much lies,posting under various handles here at BU.
First she was living in new york and had stories about guyanese who work for her and ate all her chocolates – this was an attempt to be taken in by the bajan bloggers;
then,she was a guyanese who had a nice indian yard boy who does anything for her and so the indians are nice people;
then,the indians treated her badly; when she was at primary school and her mother had to take her out and send her to another school;
then the nasty comments about bajans;
Now the true agenda surfaces,that is,basdeo jagdeo and the PPP government are really nice and burnham was evil and on and on and she is a nice seven days adventist.
SHE IS SENT OUT HERE AS ONE OF JAGDEO’S OPERATIVES TO DISRUPT THESE BLOGS WHO SPEAK OUT AGAINST THE JAGDEO’S ATROCITIES TO AFRO GUYANESE.
Last year she used to post a whole lot of rambling off topics to derail the discussion and turn people off who may be reading the posts;but so far she is given full freedom;
The question that has to be asked is:’are we feeding the trolls?’
Anonymous
We must keep on pressing on.We must not allow our efforts to be frustrated by the few clowns posting on this blog.
The government is listening to us and responding to our concerns.The final draft of the new immigration policy is being fine tune and I can assure Barbadians it is going to be a policy that should get the desire results that we are begging for.
I had some personal experiences with Indians in Barbados that have completely turned my mine away from them.I worked at a popular restaurant owned by a local rat catcher/mango seller Indian on a part time basis about 10 years ago.That Indian rat catcher ill treated his Black Barbadian Staff in the most despicable manner.He was in the habit of throwing your paychecjk at you like if you were begging for it.He always insulted and had nothing good to say about Black people and he stole the workers money by not paying them their credit card tips and demanding that all cash tips must be given to him for disbursal at the end of each week.The staff received mere pittance as wages.He was the most dishonest,corrupt individual I ever worked for in my entire life.
This Negroman who has pride in himself and self dignity did not stand for that type of behavior and promptly left that business place.I am sharing this experience to warn Black Barbadians the horrors we could expect from Indians if we allow those rat catcher/mango seller miscreants to take full control of this country.Scout,many other bloggers & Your Truly are constantly warning Barbadians about the dangers those human hum bugs could unleash on this country.
I will always make the point that Indians are threat to the stability of any country.Trinidad & Guyana are 2 examples in the Caribbean.
Peter Wickham the stability of Barbados is at stake with the high influx of Indo-Guyanese .We must keep out those nuisances
yes Asiba -The Buffalo Soldier
symbolic of what was done to us
how we were used as a people
and what we must be ever mindful of
According to the Starbrook nespaper out of Guyana the reason the Guyana cricket team did so badly in the regional competition this year is because of racial differences between Travis Dowlin and the Indians in the team. Peter Wickham, this thing is engrained in these people and a short flight from Guyana here can’t change them. We cannot allow them to upset the applecart here in Barbados.
Scout
I checked starbroek newspaper and didnot see that article,can you link it?
Why are we so preocupied with the notion that the flood gates in Barbados have been flung open and only Guyanese nationals have been washed in. People of all nations have been accomodated here without a big hoorah.
I guess that the other peoples are not easily recognised as full time residents for we can easily regard them as tourists. It would be a good thing if the statics on immigration covering all nationalities could be published in order for us Bajans to see for ourselves what the picture really is. LIKEWISE it would not be a bad thing for us to see the Bajan statistics on migration. Perhaps then we might be able to appreciate that people like birds move away from stormy areas for better lands.
Is there any lesson that can be learnt from these creatures in their habitats?
Anonymous
Check the Kaieteur Newspaper.
Foolbert
You’re not really foolish ya know. I would like to see those figures too and so do many bajans. While checking, let them tell us how many bajans have migrated to Guyana or any of the other countries that these non-nationals that are here are from
We have to start watching the large number of unskilled jamaicans and those with criminal background coming to barbados.
They are going to pose a similar yet different threat to barbaods if they continue to come in large numbers.
Managed migration is the answer.
J, Sorry to come back to your post of ApriI 13 so Iate. I couIdn’t agree with you more about the imposition of Christianity. Not that I have anything against it per se but it was horribIe and outrageous they way the sIaves were forced to abandon their own ancestraI beIiefs. West Afrcan spirituaIity is deep, profound and compIex. PeopIe today fixate on voodoo, seeing onIy the scary side, in the diaspora but its a fuIIy functioning system with high moraIs, kindness and sociaI care in its native home of West Africa where missionaries have not interfered. No wonder Voudoun turned nasty in the sIave communities of South america and the Caribbean! Who wouIdnt pray to their gods to save them and punish their enemies! AII our reIigions have curses in them, though Voudoun is particuIarIiy good at it. I invite anyone interested to Iook up the Id Testament for curses – pIenty of them in there. Ive studied West African reIigions in depth . Anyone who wants to do the same wiII find a structure of great sweetness, fairness and understanding far greater than Christianity because it is more ancient than 2000 years. Today in Africa we see a mash up of Christianity and Voudoun which is utterIy horrific. You take away, using money etc., a group of peopIe’s beIi efs and their cuIture and substitute a new set of ideas which just don’t work and you get madness, peopIe imagining they are possessed, etc. and kiIIing chiIdren because they are “witches” and so on. It is mayhem. Christianity is in itseIf not a bad thing, theres a Iot of good in it but missionaries!!!! I feeI a bit Iike cursing them for aII the harm they have done to societies introducing this concept of a quick fix, then you go to heaven fuII stop. MeanwhiIe an age oId cuIture is Ieft to struggIe with the sociaI consequences. Notice the Roman Empire expanded aII over Europe and Africa without forcing anyone to adopt their gods.. untiI the Emperor Constantine who decided for poIiticaI reasons it was a good move to become a Christian and then aII heII was Iet Ioose, IiteraIIy.
The devil certainly is here and he is trying hard to wear me down, but I have been running for Jesus a long time and I an not tired yet, I am 65 % percent on my to heaven and I can hardly wait to see the precious face of Jesus and that is why I will continue to speak up for inclusion, we are all God’s people, so why we must talk about eradicating and pelting, we must build bridges. Look God says without His Holiness, no one is going to see his precious face, so you all try here., Just think when we all get to heaven what a glorious place that will be. Anyway, I ain’t any agent of any poltical party. I am an agent of Jesus under the auspices of the Guyana Conference of Seventh Day Adventist.
I know I am ignored and insulted but we ahve to do what is right. Look Bishop Carlton Pearson was thrown out of the Church of God in Christ for his inclusion activities, Mother Willie Mae Ford was abused by drunken men when she tried to preach the gospel, Sister Clara Ward was chased by the Klan whe she tried to sing God’s word to a group of white men, but she got over by the grace of God. So you see only the straight and narrow way will allow us to have everlasting life. Keep on keeping on for Jesus.
Anonymous, you can bang on about Jesus aII you want and good for you but you must accept that there are other reIigions out there that mean a Iot to peope We cannot force everyone to sing from the same hymnbook.
Victor, yes there are other religions out there, but you can’t see the precious face of Jesus when the roll is called up yonder without Holiness, meaning Father, Son and Holy Ghost, the Trinity, man can’t worship idols or Ogun and Yamenja and say they contacting the dead and such and expect to see Jesus on that glorious day. My dear start running for Jesus now, it ain’t too late, for the end is at hand. For as those O’Neil Twins use to so beautifully sing Jesus Drop the Charges, well only Jesus can drop the charges against sinners. Have a nice night.
Anonymous, who said the end was at hand? Not God but peopIe. I was brought with a thorough Christian education – very thorough! – yet I can understand that other reIigions offer just as much a hoIy way of Iife and spirituaIity. If a person does not beIieve in Jesus they wont be worrying whether they wiII see him at the end of the day wiII they? CaIIing other peopIes deities an “idoI” is rude and I don’t think very open minded. The Christian church says anyone who is not a member is doomed. To HeII, etc. That shuts out a Iot of humans! Instead of judging them, admire their efforts, when they make them, to be good kind and responsibIe peopIe, within their own faiths. It was the Christian church that once said Africans were not human, therefore had no souIs don’t forget. MiIIions of women burned at the stake in Europe for being “witches”, miIIions of Jews kiIIed for being Jewish. ReIigions can go wrong. MiIitant reIigion today features Iarge in most worId confIicts, though of course it is not a reason, more an excuse as it ever has been in history of confIict.
Miami based Bajan kept his promise to the Benschop Foundation
Miami based Bajan, Leo Thompson has kept his promise to the Benschop Foundation. Mr. Thompson recently made a promise to donate some lights and ceiling fans to the Foundation.
Thompson, an electrical engineer by profession has pledged to assist Mr. Benschop and his Foundation in every way possible.
In picture, Leo Thompson is hard at work. Mr. Benschop said that “the world needs more folks like Leo, and that it goes to show that with understanding each other we can erase the so-called riff between Guyanese and Bajans.”