Submitted by Yakubu
While we must be a tolerant society, Bajans must understand that Hindu immigrants, with their high fertility rates, and their dislike of miscegenation with the Negro, have already destroyed the social cohesion of two Caribbean territories–Guyana and Trinidad. Now they are invading Barbados.
We will have no-one but ourselves to blame if we are unable to defend our island from the upheavals that have occurred elsewhere–and not just in the Caribbean. In Fiji, society has been fractured by Indian immigration. In East Africa, there have been decades of turmoil, although Uganda chose to bite the bullet and deport much of its Indian population when they rejected the government’s efforts to integrate them into African society.
A single labour market for the Caribbean will, over a historical period, lead to the political, social and cultural subordination of the Negro in the entire eastern Caribbean. Our politicians, businessmen and academics must be persuaded to abandon this ruinous project.
329 responses so far ↓
David // July 2, 2009 at 8:19 PM
After reading this submission we recalled a one of our earlier blogs which was posted 20 June 2007 and attracted 3 comments including one from BU.
St George's Dragon // July 2, 2009 at 9:28 PM
This is blatant racism and is unacceptable.
Turn this round and imagine how it would go down if someone in England, for instance, had written:
“While we must be a tolerant society, the English must understand that Bajan immigrants, with their high fertility rates, and their dislike of miscegenation with the Whites, have already destroyed the social cohesion of two European territories. Now they are invading England.”
This thread needs to be closed, and quickly.
y. paris // July 2, 2009 at 9:43 PM
I agree. The article is right on. The island states in caricom must defend themselves from these south american invaders. They cause but strife, destruction, and mayhem. Cohesiveness does not exist in their vocabulary. Deport them now!
mash up & buy back // July 2, 2009 at 9:59 PM
You will I am sure get comments from others like St george dragon.
There will be some who cannot stand the truth,or will try to demonise you with their hypocritical nonsense.
We don’t even have to go to Fiji,mauritius or Africa – guyana and trinidad right next door are the best case studies for us to exmine and ensure our sociey does not end up with the racial hatred between the indian and the african like theirs.
Hopi // July 2, 2009 at 10:07 PM
@Yakubu….who are you?
Can anyone show me where throughout history has the Black man made a bomb, created a disease, created wars, created economic warfare and famine to kill off another racial group or forcefully transported and then enslaved another racial group of people simply because he claimed/believed that he is superior with the god-given right to rule and dominate others?
Do Black go all over this world looking to dominate others while co-existing only on a parasitical level?
Aren’t Black people the first ones to try to assimilate with all other groups even though we are the most despised people on this planet?
Without the slave labour of Black people and their resources from Al-kebulan where would the great Amerikkka and Europe be today?
Today, India like China and all the other parasitic colonisers before is entering the motherland to suck her resources.
Today, India has a class of people that they relegate to the lowest strata of their society. No one will go near them and they call them the UNTOUCHABLES. And guess what, they are BLACK like me!
So who is racist?
Everyone is preaching the bullshit about let’s all get along, but they are not practising it. They are playing the Black man continuously, and he, like his foreparents is too accepting of others. They hate us, they don’t give a damn, they are liars. They need us we don’t need them! Black man unite with your Black brothers & sisters all over this planet and forget about everyone else and that is the greatest fear of the Black man’s enemies.
So forget all this crackpot talk about black people being racist. Its impossible. We are not wired that way. We are not natural born haters. What we are is IGNORANT…SELF-IGNORANT.
The yoga they practise was stolen from the Black man. I can go on and on……
BTW..Blacks have high fertility rates also.
Oh & BTW…….why did the europeans eat the balls of the bull?
The Scout // July 2, 2009 at 10:32 PM
If blacks are to be considered racist, it would have to be reversed racism. Blacks would easily go against their own for the whites or even indians. I have heard comments made by indo-guyanese in barbados especially when they are drunk that would never be made by a black bajan whether drunk or sober.
lholder // July 2, 2009 at 11:26 PM
Scout,
You are on the ball with your comment about drunk Indo-Guyanese making disparaging statements about Blacks. The statements some of them make are astounding; yet Sir Shridath Ramphal says we are all one.
reluctant nonbeliever // July 3, 2009 at 1:18 AM
Scout, lholder
Point taken. But clearly this is not just a Black/Indo-Guyanese problem.Drunks of all races make outrageous, often derogatory comments about all kinds of things and all kinds of people.
Just last week, for example, I was walking through Oistins with my sister-in-law (who’s white) . A drunk/paro passed by and mumbled the words “white trash”.
I reflexively smacked him in the mouth and made him apologise, but I’m well aware that that won’t change the way he thinks.
The sad truism is, hatred and bigotry exist everywhere, in all races.
Paradox // July 3, 2009 at 1:50 AM
France & Germany are much bigger, yet many are flocking to enter UK.
The late Enoch Powell once made the “Rivers of Blood” comment, in reference to immigrants into the UK.
A few weeks ago in Northern Ireland, a number of East Europeans were rescued by the police for fear of being lynched.
Immigration can be good if MANAGED SENSIBLY.
No country can allow entry to unchecked numbers of people, whether they are of the same colour, race, creed, religion; there must be a limit.
Any sensible government should be able to see the likely dangers, if unchecked numbers are allowed to enter its country.
There are differences in behaviour, attitude, beliefs/religion, in all races, Blacks, Whites, Chinese, Indians,etc.
Problems can occur when one group feels the other is a threat in some way or the other.
There are times when we disagree with our own brothers, sisters, mothers, fathers for different reasons.
The ‘post above by Yakubu:’appear to target ‘Indo….’
One can see where you are coming from by the examples given, but one must also ask the question!
If those ‘Indo..’ were blacks/Negroes, would you have written same?
We are sometimes alluded to things we want to see and often misunderstood the real picture.
David // July 3, 2009 at 2:08 AM
Why is it whenever the issue of race or the impact the growing ethnic population may have on a stable Black host population we all scurry for the rocks? Should it not be a commonsense position if Barbados has had a stable social and political environment for so many years to want to anticipate and monitor how entering ethnic groups may impact our society? Remember our stability has been a key tenet of our success through the years. In the case of Barbados the Indo-Guyanaes comes under the microscope only because it represents the largest growing ethnic group in Barbados. Its not about persecuting Indo- Guyanese because Barbados has entertained Indians from the sub-continent for years and we have lived side by side without issues, check Kensington New Road, Fontebelle.
J // July 3, 2009 at 2:29 AM
I am sure that both Lindsay Holder and Scout understand that drunk people talk a lotta foolishness.
Be honest now.
Have either of you ever been drunk?
Have you ever said anything while drunk that you would not have said when sober?
Would you like to be judged by your most drunken thoughts?
Me I have been drunk only once in my life. Tried it LIKED it, but didn’t like the hangover, resolved never to do it again. Never have.
J is always SOBER.
J // July 3, 2009 at 2:35 AM
David you wrote “Uganda chose to bite the bullet and deport much of its Indian population when they rejected the government’s efforts to integrate them into African society.”
Explain wah ya mean.
If you are defending Idi Amin you have to let us know.
Na big words please.
Put it in plain English
J // July 3, 2009 at 2:51 AM
Dear reluctant non believer:
You wrote in reference to a drunken paro who used insulting words in reference to your sister in law:
“I reflexively smacked him in the mouth”
Since you are an immigrant and not a Bajan let me be the first Bajan to reprimand you, and to instruct you in decent Bajan behaviour.
Slapping people in the mouth (even if they use insulting words) is not the decent Bajan way. My Bajan parents, God rest their souls would roll in their graves if they knew that there had arrived in Barbados a person like you, so quick to use violence.
This is the true decent Bajan way. The next time a drunken paro insults your sister in law, or you, or even your mother, you walk ‘long ’bout your business and pretend that you do not hear.
That is how Barbados came to be a peaceful stable society , attractive to immigrants such as yourself. We are NOT quick to use violence. Haven’t you noticed that yet?
The drunken paro should have called the police for you and you should have been prosecuted for assault. Because what you did was unlawful.
Bajans are thoughtful people.
We do not reflexively do ANYTHING.
We think first. We think a lot, a lot, a lot first.
I’ve lived in Barbados for more than 50 years and I’ve never smacked anybody yet.
Why do you think that it is ok to smack our drunken paros for talking out of their own mouths? You pay taxes for their mouths????
As long as you live here never again must you smack a Bajan.
The Prime Minister should have you deported. You criminal. Assault is a crime.
J // July 3, 2009 at 2:59 AM
Dear David:
You wrote “While we must be a tolerant society, Bajans must understand that Hindu immigrants, with their high fertility rates, and their dislike of miscegenation”
So what is stopping Bajans form having a high fertility rate.
Maybe while other people are having and raising children we Bajans would rather jerk off in condoms which we then throw on Mangrove landfill.
Maybe we would rather say that we used 10,000 condoms in a lifetime, rather than say that we raised 3 children. After all men get bragging rights for f**ping nuff, nuff women. But nobody congratulates the child raisers of this country.
J // July 3, 2009 at 3:06 AM
And most of us Bajans don’t like miscegenation either, so that makes us exactly the same as the Hindu immigrants.
I’m old as Negroman is never tired of reminding me, and in spite of many years in the great white north I’ve never had sex with anyone outside of my own race.
If that does not make me a hateful person (and I don’t think that it does) how can the same behaviour from a Hindu immigrant be condemned?
Tek ya time to answer my question.
Reality Check // July 3, 2009 at 3:27 AM
Not a nice subject to discuss since one can easily be labeled “racist”. However we have to also be realistic and study what has transpired in the countries mentioned.
Free movement will transform the Barbados social, cultural and political landscape. Check out what has happened in Antigua where some 40%of the population are new immigrants, and 25 % of them can now vote.
The Indian caste system poisons even the darkest Indian to feel that he is better than any black man, as his hair is straight or curly -ready for straightening. Many Indians from GT are really “doughlas”, mixed with African blood as blood as there were few women in the boats that brought them from India.
Hatred for blacks is widespread in Guyana. The black teachers taught their them and especially their parents and grandchildren to read and write. Today they are 45% of the population in Guyana and behave as if they are 85%. That is why there will always be problems there,
They can be a real problem as they are really transplanted Indians from India, with a short history here, and still tied to Indian culture in film etc. They are just living in this region and reaping the cream of the business and the opportunity to make money. Many are really NOT true Caribbean people as they refuse to drop their racial biases and behavior. With political power or the ability to control the swing votes, in a close election, they could create tensions that would destroy this country.
I do hope that the DLP saves this country by not backing down and not agreeing to free movement now or in the future.
partly bajan girl // July 3, 2009 at 4:18 AM
I salute that the thread here is not closed. it s good to get out whatever lurks inside our hearts when it comes to the mass immigration of people with a diffrent culture to this little country.
It has to be discussed and that in a open way, even if it sounds a bit nasty.
Barbados is very small and cant house all these people in a short time.
It should never been doen the way it has.
Where i live, we have a quite big country, not densly populated, with a majority of native whites, but aggression against people coming here from other cultures is a big fear in many, especially in theese economical times.
We have to take lay man seriously, or we can end up with worse things going on.
I have a question to hopi; you said yoga was stolen from black man.
can you explain that to me?
I am seriously interested in that theory!
livinginbarbados // July 3, 2009 at 5:22 AM
@MUBB
Mauritius is part of Africa, though it is an island, not on the mainland.
@David
The earlier article was really amusing for not flagging the inflow of Britons as something worth curbing.
Making the link between the dangers of European migration is worth pondering over the weekend. Funnily, Mauritius was the home of the Dodo (aka Simpleton bird), which died out within 50-100 years of the arrival of Europeans on the island: they and their animals killed the bird, which is now extinct.
Mauritius is also often used as a key comparator with Barbados: they had similar economic structures, and have chosen similar development paths from agriculture to finance/tourism based economies; they have similar populations densities (1.3 million/780 sq miles versus 0.28 million/166 sq miles). Mauritius was populated by migrants and after the Europeans came, there were Chinese, Indians, Arabs, various Creoles, and Hindus who now make up the dominant religious group (over 50%). You can think who is the disruptive element, if any, in that community.
It’s also worth reflecting even harder on European migration and its decimating effect on host populations. With that concern, I really wonder if the current thrust of tourism, with its focus on welcoming millions of Europeans and their descendants is not more of a threat to an island like Barbados. Remember, before the Europeans arrived in the Americas, there were Incas, Mayans, Caribs, Arawaks, and others. Not long after, they were dead due to the transmission of disease and other things like just being killed by the new arrivals. Do Bajans really feel safe with all those English people walking around freely and mixing with the population?
Just a view (not status quo, I hope).
partly bajan girl // July 3, 2009 at 5:29 AM
Isnt it just a way to SELL yoga in black communities, to connect/compare indian yoga learnings to egyptian or even claim it to be plain west-african?
And how can you say it was STOLEN from us/them/egyptians?
Yoga can be practised everywhere by everyone, I dont think it can be restricted very much?
Personally I think meditation-like postures and learnings have been practised ALL over the world in ancient times, then forgotten og selected away because of never ideas.F.ex. industrialisation, orthodox religious practises,witchhuntings etc.
Here an article about how yoga is “brought back” to Africa, to people who really need it!
:http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7777912.stm
partly bajan girl // July 3, 2009 at 5:32 AM
try again;
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7777912.stm
livinginbarbados // July 3, 2009 at 5:54 AM
@The Scout/LHolder
Am I really to believe that you take the utterings/mutterings/mumblings/yelling of a drunken person seriously? Why would that be? I will be spending some time reading Hansard for Parliamentary debates in the UK and Barbados to seek guidance. The late Winston Churchill was often known to be drunk, especially in Parliament (not so, Lady Astor?) and then who is the other person I have in mind? Help me, someone?
lholder // July 3, 2009 at 6:31 AM
J,
You really are something else! Some men like to brag about their conquests; I suppose that it is an ego thing.
As for you, you seem to have forgot that the Scriptures say, “Man shall not live by bread alone, but by everthing that proceeds from the mouth of God.” I am quite sure that you are also familiar with the two Sparrow calypsos, ‘Congo Man’, and ‘I Never Eat a White Meat Yet’.
On a more serious note, yes, we should not rush to judge people based on the statements they make when they are drunk. Yes, I like my libations, and on occasions I have drunk too much and talk foolishness. But never in my inebriated state have I made racist comments. The reason is simple; such thoughts are not in my sub-conscious mind.
Let me relate a personal incident. One Sunday, I had some errands to do, and it took me up to the afternoon to finish them. On my way home, I stopped at a bar in Haggatt Hall. The bar, the name of which is ‘Kaiteur…..’, is operated by Guyanese East Indians, and is also frequented by Indo-Guyanese. During the time I spent there, I was the only black person. A drunk East Indian got up from the table he was sitting at, approached me, and started to ramble on about a lot of foolishness. The last thing he said to me, without any provocation, was that “I look like a dead.”
How should I interpret his behaviour?
My incident is not alone. I have heard of quite a few incidents where, when drunk, some Indo-Guyanese express their hatred for ‘niggers’. One guy is alleged to have said that he and others in his village used to beat Afro-Guyanese found in the village.
My contention, therefore, is that you cannot ignore all the alleged incidents or statements simply because the offending individuals were drunk.
Hopi // July 3, 2009 at 6:48 AM
the other person is living in Barbados drunken with wine of the good life and the hard labour of others.
PBG………..I’ll be back.
livinginbarbados // July 3, 2009 at 6:56 AM
@LHolder
“My contention, therefore, is that you cannot ignore all the alleged incidents or statements simply because the offending individuals were drunk.”
I really have to wonder if this is April 1, or a scene from a satire.
Alcohol is now supposed to be some sort of truth serum? Let’s take this argument to logical conclusion. When the police pick up a drunk they can be more assured that what is said by such a person as being the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth (so help me God)? Can a lawyer help us here on how courts view that. Should we ply people with alcohol so that we can get to their deeper beliefs?
A lot of our social structure has been built on the pillar of sobriety. I now feel that this is in danger of being overturned and that alcoholism could be the new mantra. Does Barbados have a branch of AA?
Let me too retell a personal tale. When I worked at a central bank in England, one Director looked at me (obviously a negro) and said, in full seriousness, “Let’s try to find the niggers in the woodpile.” I did not smell his breath to check if he were drunk or sober, but the remark was deeply offensive and I told him so. Another time, while playing football, a drunken woman standing by the pitch came up to me and told me that she loved black men and wanted to have sex with me there on the pitch. I was flattered but thought better of accepting the offer. Had I acquiesced, and the lady later accused me of rape, should I have said in my defence, “But, your honour, she was drunk and clearly was speaking from the heart.”?
PEPPER SAUCE // July 3, 2009 at 7:04 AM
Of course this article was written by Yakubu – but since you – BU – have published it, is to assume you are in concord. I’ll say what has been said here already… and I stand by it:
Re this ‘Immigration thing’ : it is ~
1) a racial thing
2) a government to government feud.
Over and out
mash up & buy back // July 3, 2009 at 7:07 AM
Lindsay holder
Check out starbroek news article ‘immigration row heats up summit launch’ – and read the opening remarks of Jagdeo.
Read also how ralph gonsalves was egging him on by clapping during the speech as he made various remarks.
I hope thompson does not respond with some mamby-pamby diplomatic shite and will as you said earlier -’take the gloves off’.
David // July 3, 2009 at 7:17 AM
@LIB
Why do you take the debate down the road as if we are in a court of law?
There is a body of opinion which says that we should study the impact ethnic groups may have on Barbados, especially so given our stable social history between the races. The growing Indo-Guyanese and Chinese to a lesser extent therefore comes under the microscope. It is generally well accepted that being in an inebriated state will lend to disorder to the senses of; to exhilarate or elate as if by spirituous drink; to deprive of sense and judgment; also, to stupefy. Factual positions are often times arrived it because of bouts of curiosity based on casual observation. What is so hard to understand about that brother?
At pepper sauce, the history of Barbados clearly demonstrates that we are a tolerant society to other races.
The Scout // July 3, 2009 at 7:18 AM
reluctant non-believer
You are a lucky man; how dare you go slapping a black bajan, paro or not for speaking out of his own mouth. I think if ever you see that paro again you owe him an apology. As long as he didn’t touch or assault you or your ladyfriend, you were out of place and again lucky that some other sober bajan didn’t see the incedent and administer a rare but serious bajan whipping on you. Just smile and continue on your way next time; take my advice
199 // July 3, 2009 at 7:18 AM
Our politicians, businessmen and academics must be persuaded to abandon this ruinous project.
**************
Our politicians, businessmen and academics, etc, are all dumb-asses happy to continue the ruination as long as somebody’s happy to call them Sir, and bow-down an kiss duh ****sides every two seconds and make them feel important! We know it and, more importantly, the Indians know it, and are happy to flatter them, at least temporarily, until they achieve their aim of taking-over, which with their skill and agility at doing, will be a snitch!! Meanwhile, the Bajan will keep skinning e white teet till, one day, much too late, they’ll realise that Bim is n’t theirs, any more!!
What a hilarious, but sad, people!! Meanwhile, the Indians will be ‘laughing all the way to the bank’ while ridiculing you, in their homes!!
The Scout // July 3, 2009 at 7:19 AM
I just you did it to please or impress your white friend.
livinginbarbados // July 3, 2009 at 7:23 AM
@Bredda Hopi
Me no memba yu, dred. Is wen me an yu did fren? Inna wich time we did wuk togedda? How yu know so much ’bout me? Or is guess you a guess or dream yu a dream? Hop a no duppy yu a see!
As tings slow slow today, wen yu reddy, we can grab fi we hoe an go plant some good Renta. Mi yard ha some banana me wan pull, too. And wen we a swet, we can sing “Red, red wine.” Sweet music, Iyah!
Tell me wen yu reddy fi help.
Time for actionP.M. // July 3, 2009 at 7:28 AM
Lord help us people.
Read the article on line in the nation where walter maloney says persons are calling up immigration officers and threatening them.
This thing is all out war.
Owen arthur let all of these blasted coolie people in this country and now they are causing bare shite in this country.
All the years other caribbean people here in this country and nothing so ever happen.
It just shows you if we had allowed these people to stay and take root it would have been massive destruction across the whole of barbados.
THIS THING IS VERY SERIOUS!
Next thing is that article by jeff cumberbatch.
You see who the nation newspaper seek out for comments -not people like lindsay holder – but people like cumberbatch who will side with the agenda of the nation.
Instead of giving support to the government and people of barbados – who pay his salary up at the university – of which he gives nothing back to this society – he up there encouraging guyanese to sue the government of barbados by telling them about rights under the constitution.
I suppose all of those lil indian young girls studying law up at cave hill -have to be given the assurance that he is on their side – or else….
livinginbarbados // July 3, 2009 at 7:34 AM
@David
“Why do you take the debate down the road as if we are in a court of law?”
Because if you read or statements and dont think through what they imply you will end up with many idiotic conclusions just because the take the statement as making sense. I call the process reasoning.
I can only speak for myself, but your definition of the effects of drink ["It is generally well accepted that being in an inebriated state will lend to disorder to the senses of; to exhilarate or elate as if by spirituous drink; to deprive of sense and judgment; also, to stupefy."] tells me to discount the utterings of those who are under its influence, yet we have someone trying to argue that we should take such utterings seriously.
“There is a body of opinion which says that we should study the impact ethnic groups may have on Barbados, especially so given our stable social history between the races.” By all means study that impact. But please don’t argue that such study looks only at the impact of one ethnic group. I put forward the argument (reasonable to me) about looking at the impact of the English. Are they of concern to you and the ‘body of opinion’? They are to me, and I lived amongst them for 30 years and my ‘casual observations’ during that period of how some of them treated black Caribbeans and other people originating from other countries, especially if they have dark skin, could make me less than comfortable to have them infiltrating this island.
The Scout // July 3, 2009 at 7:34 AM
J
Take it from me, indo-guyanese believe that blacks are the scruff of the earth. While in Guyana, I worked with some indo-guyanese, one Sat. i was in Demico Beer Garden with some friend (blacks) when one of these indo-guyanese came in, he came over and offer me a beer with the comment ” don’t mind you’re black you alright.” I refused the beer, he never spoke to me again. Funny thing I was in a shop near me quite recently and some indo-guyanese were in the shop doing their usual Sat evening thing, getting drunk. One guy turned to the shopkeeper and told him to give me a beer because I’m one of the good black men. Again I refused the beer and walked out of the shop. Some black bajans in the shop were laughing at the comment. I said” forgive them, for what they say” as I left. We haven’t seen the worse of them yet. I KNOW it is just a matter of time something serious happens. These indo-guyanese are so culturally dumb at it is not unusual for a group of “friends” to start on their sat. drinking spree and end up fighting and chopping up each other. Is this what barbados will come to?
livinginbarbados // July 3, 2009 at 7:35 AM
To correct my typos–CHANGES IN CAPITALS:
“Why do you take the debate down the road as if we are in a court of law?”
Because if you read STATEMENTS and dont think through what they imply you will end up with many idiotic conclusions just because YOU take the statement as making sense. I call the process reasoning.
Anonymous // July 3, 2009 at 7:37 AM
This thread exposes the real reason behind the call for “managed migration”.
Is D.Thompson by articulating the policy of managed migration going to be inadvertently placed in the company of such people as Enoch Powell (rivers of blood fame), Alfred Deakin (White Australia only immigration policy), Daniel Malan (Apartheid in South Africa), Hassan Ngeza editor of Kagura (motivated the Rwanda massacre of Tutsis), S. Milosevic (ethnic cleansing in the Balkans), George Speight (Fiji coup leader in 2000) , Nathan Forrest (organiser of the Ku Klux Klan) and A. Hitler (the final solution i.e the Holocaust)?
The Scout // July 3, 2009 at 7:42 AM
A few years ago, at Bushy Pask raceway, there was this guyanese driver who was driving reckless and with downright hatred for the bajan competitors. He got into a confrontation with a bajan driver and they sqared up in front each other. The large contigent of guyanese spectators that were present jumped the fence and was ready to defend their guy. One indo-guyanese spectator started waving a guyanese flag and shouting “Indian guyanese rule”, like a time bomb a big fight broke out. Of course the guyanese spectator got a good whipping before the task force got there to break it up. What I’m saying that some civil unrest is just below the surface but bajans will not react unless provoked.
lholder // July 3, 2009 at 7:46 AM
LIB,
You mentioned Churchill.
Following are some famous quotes from that icon of a man, and not all of them are related to drunken behaviour. Some were made when he was quite sober, and are very applicable to the ongoing immigration discussion.
“Lady Nancy Astor: Winston, if you were my husband, I’d poison your tea.
Churchill: Nancy, if I were your husband, I’d drink it.”
“’Elizabeth Braddock: You are drunk Sir Winston, you are disgustingly drunk. ‘Yes, Mrs. Braddock, I am drunk. But you, Mrs. Braddock are ugly, and disgustingly fat. But, tomorrow morning, I, Winston Churchill will be sober.”
“One ought never to turn one’s back on a threatened danger and try to run away from it. If you do that, you will double the danger. But if you meet it promptly and without flinching, you will reduce the danger by half.”
“Never give in, never give in, never; never; never; never – in nothing, great or small, large or petty – never give in except to convictions of honour and good sense”
“An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile hoping it will eat him last.”
“The farther backwards you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.”
“In wartime, truth is so precious that she should always be attended by a bodyguard of lies.”
“I gather, young man, that you wish to be a Member of Parliament. The first lesson that you must learn is, when I call for statistics about the rate of infant mortality, what I want is proof that fewer babies died when I was Prime Minister than when anyone else was Prime Minister. That is a political statistic.”
199 // July 3, 2009 at 7:59 AM
‘St George’s Dragon’ is a fantasist who’s delusions will prove no good for Bim, at all, just as they have n’t for Britain!!
************
J // July 3, 2009 at 2:29 am
I am sure that both Lindsay Holder and Scout understand that drunk people talk a lotta foolishness.
*********
J, are you another fantasist?!! People speak, NOT FOOLISHNESS, but what they TRULY think, more honestly, WHEN THEY’RE DRUNK!! Which convent u live in?!! – that you’re so out of touch!!
*******
“If you are defending Idi Amin you have to let us know.”
**********
And what would be so terrible about that, J!! Many countries now wish they had the guts to follow his example!!
****************
“My Bajan parents, God rest their souls would roll in their graves if they knew that there had arrived in Barbados a person like you, so quick to use violence.”
************
J, thousands of people have been arriving in Barbados for years now who are notorious for being ‘quick to use violence’ and I have n’t heard the Bajan yet, who’s been brave enough to stand up and criticise them! Indeed, you positively won’t dream to say a bad word against them, or even mention their name, except in the most positive light you can configure, so as you have n’t the guts to criticise them, I’m not going to name them either, but, why should ‘reluctant nonbeliever’ be any different!! A whole host of Bajans are mindless and ignorant!! I can tell from these blogs, alone!!
*********
The Prime Minister should have you deported. You criminal. Assault is a crime.
**********
I still agree with u on that, J!!
J, someting tell me u feel strongly on dis subjek!!
Lor!!
*************
So what is stopping Bajans form having a high fertility rate.
**********
J, how about the limited size of the country plus, our normally sensible attitude to which u referred earlier!! The trick is to encourage the others to be the same!! or, else, compel them to be!!
******************
partly bajan girl // July 3, 2009 at 4:18 am
“I salute that the thread here is not closed. it s good to get out whatever lurks inside our hearts when it comes to the mass immigration of people with a diffrent culture to this little country.
It has to be discussed and that in a open way, even if it sounds a bit nasty.”
***************
Well said, PBG, if, like you and me, more world leaders could see this, the world would be a better place!!
David // July 3, 2009 at 8:04 AM
@LIB
No we are not overyly concern about the English migrant at this time.
livinginbarbados // July 3, 2009 at 8:08 AM
@David
“No we are not overyly concern about the English migrant at this time” You say migrant, but can I presume you mean migrants? Does that mean that there will come a time when you will be overly concerned? Does that mean you will never be concerned? To both, if so, why. Again, this is reasoning. Test the argument. See if it holds water.
199 // July 3, 2009 at 8:09 AM
“I suppose all of those lil indian young girls studying law up at cave hill -have to be given the assurance that he is on their side – or else….”
************
Prepare yourselves for the advent of an Indian, Prime minister or an Indian-government! And you and Arthur, will have invited it upon yourselves!!
199 // July 3, 2009 at 8:14 AM
The thing is, I can’t recall ever hearing of any blacks being invited to emigrate to INDIA!! have you!!
David // July 3, 2009 at 8:14 AM
@LIB
The pragmatist may say to you that current realities require Barbadians to engage this issue steeped in the current reality I.e. a failed state is raining down migrants on our little country and we need to fix it now.
The Scout // July 3, 2009 at 8:16 AM
I just heard the comments made by that stinking political misfit Jagdeo suggesting that my P.M is a liar. I AM FURIOUS. THIS IS IT. David/BU you can BAN me if you like but it is all out war now against ALL guyanese . Just after I read that one passed by me and spoke. I promptly told him as far as I am concerned he and all the rest of them should be out of thisd country and I would prefer if until then don’t even speak to me.He asked me how I am going to get them out, I better learn to live with them. That got me more furious, I intend to go to my room and watch cricket and hope W.I wins , that will help cool me down. Who the HELL bulling Jagdeo think he is. Ban me if you like BU ; BFP has already done that.
livinginbarbados // July 3, 2009 at 8:18 AM
@LHolder
A good set of Winston’s quotations, and they should make everyone smile.
I cited Churchill for several reasons, one of which was to draw comparison to stories of a prominent local politician. There may be good reasons to listen to what drunks say, that is true. But, it is not a good general proposition. (I’m taking your credentials as an economist as given, so hope you can accept that remark.)
Churchill is good to think about. He was known to be a giften person from an early age (and time at a good school helped nurture that). He had a good Army career, a brilliant political career too. The man was an artist of no little talent and he was a good enough writer to get a Nobel Prize for Literature. He was widely acknowledged as a great statesman. Therefore, his drunken mutterings could be set against all he did and said. Ok, he could have been drunk all the time, but that would make his greatness even more astonishing. But, had the man been known to be a fool or not known at all, why would I really give a tinker’s cuss about what he said?
livinginbarbados // July 3, 2009 at 8:26 AM
@David
“The pragmatist may say to you that current realities require Barbadians to engage this issue steeped in the current reality…”
Have you looked carefully at the UK recently? It is not classed as a failed state, but is a former imperial power that has been waning for decades (you can even read a report today that tells how it is being sidelined by the EU in key discussions). It is also an economy in deep trouble. That may not lead to a flood of Brits coming here for jobs, but they may wish to escape Blighty’s oppressive economic decline and camp out here. They have the wealth, as is clear, to take over this island with very little effort. I would not fear that even 10% of the 55 million Brits would want to descend on Bimshire and have to live with the darkies, but you never know. There is a long love affair between the two countries, with this precious isle even being known as “Little England”.
So, much depends on which reality you want your eyes to rest on.
art // July 3, 2009 at 8:31 AM
BU agreed/published, and I quote:
“Hindu immigrants… have already destroyed the social cohesion of two Caribbean territories”.
YOU: “All Hindus are racist”, is that not what you are publishing BU?
Shame!!!
You are fanning racist flames, and that is promotion of racism/xenophobia. It is
ILLEGAL
to do so.
You are confusing the present day issues by doing so.
No respect for this Nazi tactic.
Racist, BU.
Racist BU.
The Scout // July 3, 2009 at 8:31 AM
I am calling on our Prime Minister on his return to Barbados to announce a referendum to see how bajans feel about the presence and arrogant attitude of guyanese in this country. I also call for a public apology from the Guyanese President for the remarks he made about the Barbados Prime Minister. This man obviuosly can only deal in the gutter. You think he could have made those remarks to either , Errol Barrow or Tom Adams?
J // July 3, 2009 at 8:31 AM
At 7:34 Scout wrote “These “indo-guyanese are so culturally dumb at it is not unusual for a group of “friends” to start on their sat. drinking spree and end up fighting and chopping up each other.”
Dear Scout: In the nice, quiet, Christian, rural, Bajan village in which I was born and raised I’ve known of three black Bajan men who killed another 3 black Bajan men while all six of them were as drunk as Churchill (or as drunk as English Lords). When they were not drunk all 6 of the men were very nice guys and friends.
I am sure that if the Scout and others on this blog are honest they can relate similar stories, after all those thousand men at Dodds are all the products of nice, quiet, Christian, Bajan villages.
Just adding some perspective to the discussion
3 dead men.
3 men in jail.
And that is only off the top of my head. If I had the time to sit down and study it I am sure that there were more cases.
So yes young men sometimes kill other young men when they are all drunk.
It ain’t a Bajan thing, not a Guyanese thing, or a Christian thing, or a Hindu thing, nor a Muslim thing either (cause dem does get drunk and behave bad too)
J // July 3, 2009 at 8:33 AM
Only J NEVER gets drunk.
livinginbarbados // July 3, 2009 at 8:35 AM
@David
“The pragmatist may say to you that current realities require Barbadians to engage this issue steeped in the current reality. I.e. a failed state is raining down migrants on our little country and we need to fix it now.”
I have read some comments suggesting that Chinese migrants are a group to be focused on next. The cynic may ask, “Will a similar approach be adopted to dealing with citizens of the People’s Republic of China?” When the time comes, will the Governor General have to choose between the monarch and the PM if diplomatic matters get heated on the question of UK migrants (remember, the GG is the Head of State)?
J // July 3, 2009 at 8:36 AM
Dear Lindsay:
I am J the female voice in the Bible.
Read your Bible carefully and amid all the male bluster you will sometimes hear a female voice. You might want to ask for guidance in this project from one of our many very well educated Anglican priests.
I am J, that female voice.
Notice that I did not say that I am without testicles.
The Scout // July 3, 2009 at 8:37 AM
J
It IS a indo- guyanese thing, trust me, I lived there. When ever there is a holiday weeh-end in guyana, extra police is placed in G.T to deal with these indo-guyanese who come to town. Chopping up each other, even to death and drinking poison is a indo-guyanese passtime. Read the daily guyanese papers.
J // July 3, 2009 at 8:40 AM
Dear living in barbados:
NOBOBY will do a sh**e about the Chinese.
There are more that a billion Chinese in the world.
China has an exceedingly well trained millions strong military.
Nobody messes with the Chinese.
Not even if the Chinese are wrong.
Or especially if the Chinese are wrong.
David // July 3, 2009 at 8:40 AM
@LIB
Let focused on the priority one issue for the moment ie. Implementing a managed immigration plan. Within that plan migrant flows can be assessed in a scientific/structured manner.
The Scout // July 3, 2009 at 8:42 AM
Check G.T, Fairchild Street, almost every Friday when them guyanese around there are drinking, the police has got to be called in to stop a fight. That is when they can put a couple illegals into the bus and send them back. Don’t even bother to take them to court, you’re illegal and breaking the Barbados law,well to the airport.
J // July 3, 2009 at 8:47 AM
Dear David you wrote “Hindu immigrants, with their high fertility rates, and their dislike of miscegenation with the Negro”
Question 1: If Hindus dislike miscegenation so much explain to me how come there are so many douglahs. I am using Richard Allsopp’s spelling from the Dictionary of Caribbean English Usage, page 200.
Question 2: If Hindus dislike miscegenation so much explain to me who are these people who according to Eric Lewis’ song “GT Advice” are stealing all the Bajan women’s husbands and men.
Question 3: When will Bajan couples stop fulling up Mangrove landfill with condoms?
Study ya head good before answering.
David // July 3, 2009 at 8:48 AM
@The Scout
To make progress on this issue you have stay focused on the big issue. Be calm but be resolute.
Negroman // July 3, 2009 at 8:59 AM
Reluctant Non-Believer
If that gentleman was any family member of mine or as a matter of fact if that same gentleman had to point you out to me there would have been 1 less person in Barbados today.I am so sorry that I wasn’t in Oistins when you slapped that individual.It would have been quite different.
Reluctant Non-Believer I want to know you personally.I will deal with you take it from me..
Brother Scout I feel like you.I do not give a damn if David ban me either or edit this posting.I am totally piss to f–k off and it is all out war.Sir shridath Ramphal talk about ethnic cleansing I am about to start ethnic cleansing.Physical confrontation must be order of day now in Barbados.
Scout,JC.& the rest let start revolution.
The Scout // July 3, 2009 at 9:04 AM
David
Normally, I’m a very calm person but tell me how can I be calm when there are gallforced winds howling all around me and my country
199 // July 3, 2009 at 9:15 AM
Has anybody heard anything from Thompson on this matter, or are his jaws sewn together!!
livinginbarbados // July 3, 2009 at 9:17 AM
@David
“Let focused on the priority one issue for the moment ie. Implementing a managed immigration plan.”
You cannot have a managed immigration plan if you only deal with part of the immigration flow. By implication, the part you do not manage is unmanaged. That is part of the issue about amnesty for one segment not all. If the rules are not consistent, then people will seek out the gaps. All the arguments about pressure on resources, etc. can only be addressed if your approach is total. For example, sending home 1000 Guyanese, but let ting in 1000 Brits may at least leave pressure on resources unchanged or worse (because wealth tends toward excess, and they demand more).
Apply, or propose, a plan that is universal then see where the chips fall.
To go back to my somewhat facetious point, but still valid nevertheless. You (BU/David) do not want to manage the inflow of Britons. Some want to manage the Chinese. Some want to manage all Guyanese or just Indo-Guyanese (though I am confused because they also lump in Hindus) [A funny aside, is that some want to go and watch WI cricket instead of dealing with this group. I presume the Guyanese can play on the team.]
You say to The Scout “To make progress on this issue you have stay focused on the big issue.” but you do not have the big issue in focus, merely a part that some people say they don’t like.
Sorry, mate (to borrow a phrase), but you seem to be flip-flopping around.
lholder // July 3, 2009 at 9:20 AM
J,
For sure you have a good sense of humour. Keep it up; we all need a good sense of humour to remain sane in this fast changing world.
Themis // July 3, 2009 at 9:26 AM
I am appalled at what this debate is turning into. Do you suspect that it might be something like this at a meeting of European skinheads or the KKK? One man even wants to start a revolution, though he is not sure for what and about what! Lord, put a hand!
J // July 3, 2009 at 9:35 AM
Thanks Themis.
David // July 3, 2009 at 9:48 AM
@Themis
It is convenient to pick on the most extreme position isn’t it?
@LIB
Have not heard OUR Prime Minister declare in his last press conference that the new immigration policy will be circulated shortly? Do you think it will be focused on Guyanese only?
livinginbarbados // July 3, 2009 at 10:14 AM
@David
I did hear PM Thompson announce that a new policy will be announced. I am not wishing to disrespect him, but as I have said on other things, this is the tail leading the dog. Announce a general policy first, and then implement elements. If you introduce an element with no general framework then you have the kind of muddle and mess around which much discussion is swirling now. (It’s the same argument with (1) BWA: set out the general approach to the organization, then we can see how rates changes fit into that, or (2) tourism: the Minister is supposed to produce a plan but before that announces a change at BTA and some other bits and bobs and you have no idea of how that fits into the plan.) It is poor government and is made worse by poor PR.
For me, respectfully, this discussion has run its course.
Anonjam // July 3, 2009 at 10:15 AM
You see, I always try to put myself in others shoes. If I were to visit a blog named “Alabama Underground” and read a thread where local whites were:
(a) complaining of the influx of black people;
(b) speculating that if the black population grew, crime would spiral out of control; and
(c) making assertions that the local government should implement policy to ensure that whites stay in the majority
I would not think it unreasonable to suspect, based on such comments, that white persons from Alabama are prejudice against Blacks. By prejudice, I mean that they have prejudged black people by holding a preconceived opinion that the average black person is prone to crime.
Now based on this thread it seems that many posters believe that if a tough immigration policy is not implemented, Indo-Guyanese will migrate to Barbados in droves. From what I gather, the majority of posters are also of the view that such a migration would cause a racial rift to exist in Barbados. The assumption is that the average Indo-Guyanese is racist.
My question is this:
If it is prejudice for a white Alabaman to have a preconceived opinion that the average black person is prone to crime, isn’t equally prejudice for a black Bajan to have a preconceived opinion that the average Indo-Guyanese is a racist?
The Scout described an encounter he had with an Indo Guyanese who clearly prejudged him. After getting to know The Scout the Indo-Guyanese offered him a beer with the comment “don’t mind you’re black you alright.” Understandably The Scout was upset because the Indo-Guyanese gentleman clearly had a preconceived negative opinion of Black people.
But aren’t some of the persons posting on these blogs guilty of similar prejudice when they refer to Indians as “blasted coolie people” (see Time for ActionP.M. at 7:28) or when they make the assumption that the average Indo Guyanese coming to Barbados is a racist?
I have seen posters on these blogs take serious offence to being called xenophobic. You can bet your bottom dollar that the Indians reading this blog are equally offended by the charges of racism.
There is no doubt that there are serious racial problems in Guyana. There is no doubt that we Barbadians don’t want such problems to exist in Barbados (although it is arguable that similar racial divisions exist here between blacks and whites). But threads like this contribute to racial tensions. All I would suggest, is that when posting , remember that a comment referring to Indians as “blasted coolie people” is just as offensive as the comment made by The Scout’s Indo-Guyanese acquaintance.
Negroman // July 3, 2009 at 10:22 AM
Themis you ass
The revolution is about saving Black Barbados from destruction that will occur if we do not curtail the increase in the Indo-Guyanese poulation,the increase in the rat catcher/mango seller Indian & Pakistani pulation & the increase in the Chinese population also.It is also about removing idiots like you,Non-Reluctant Believer the criminal,the clown Living in Barbados and the European white thrash from Black Barbados.
Black Barbadians the time has long passed for us to get and defend the island from the marauding criminals I mentioned.
Anonymous // July 3, 2009 at 10:25 AM
David Thompson where politics meets reality. This immigration policy was rolled out with the spin “doing something about the Guyanese” in Barbados. Certainly that was never said but it was allowed to be the overall perception of the matter. Now DJT runs into the fact that actions prompt reactions.
No it is not the government of Guyana’s business what Barbados immigration policies are, however no Prime Minister or President is going to sit idly by when there is a perception of mistreatment of its nationals (whatever their status) in another country. To suggest otherwise is naive at best.
At the policy level there is not an ethnic dimension to the new immigration policy but speak to anyone of indian descent (Guyanese or otherwise) and you will find out that at the implementation level there most certainly is an ethnic dimension.
Discussions on blogs like Barbados Underground tend to attract people with extremist positions like those in this post. The writer may not speak for all Bajans but those of like mind chime in and then in Guyana this blog is then held up as “proof” of the “racial hatred common in Barbados” whether this blog shows the views of the majority or just a very noisy very small fringe.
And so it goes……
Over time positions will become more entrenched and this will develop a momentum of its own.
What may have started out as great political theatre to distract public discussion from rising unemployment and costs of living in Barbados may well come back to bite the Thompson administration it ways that the originators of this policy never imagined.
livinginbarbados // July 3, 2009 at 10:27 AM
@The Scout
The stories of the fights are really interesting. Are these fights like the that with the band of Barbadian teenagers/youths who wielded machetes against each other while primary school children were having their sports? (If you are unaware of the incident, check the court records.) I read the Barbadian papers, too. Are these marauding “Guyanese” like the wild children at Combermere that we see fighting on news broadcasts and the world can see on YouTube videos? What about the mob at the bus station the other day?
Again, if we rail again crimes of a sort let’s rail against all such criminals. If you send the Guyanese home, sorry, you still have your cutlass-wielding compatriots to live with.
Themis // July 3, 2009 at 10:47 AM
Negroman, you smart, intelligent creature,
Exactly who is this revolution against? The ruling administration whose policies seem to mesh with yours or the previous administration which was deposed in a “revolution” (albeit a quiet one in January 2008? Don’t tell me you are not revolting against anybody! I am honoured that YOU think of me as a marauding criminal, whatever that may mean, but I really think you are too anxious to show your bona fides as a black man. Is something wrong?
mash up & buy back // July 3, 2009 at 11:00 AM
I am so disappointed that sensible people on this blog treating living in Barbados like he is really trying to be honest in his discussions on the immigration matter,and on all things bajan.
Living in barbados is having a good laugh at all of you.
David // July 3, 2009 at 11:02 AM
Whether we elect to put our heads in the sand or not this immigration business has assumed national import. Funny enough many of the other islands we are hearing have the same concerns but Thompson is the only one stepping up. Now tell us when we look at the Caricom nationals landed in Barbados, Skill Certificates issued, Work Permits issued etc they all reflect a picture of the Barbados welcoming Guyanese to Barbados and this even if we look at stats offered since June 1, 2009.
Ruel Daniels // July 3, 2009 at 11:27 AM
St George’s Dragon // July 2, 2009 at 9:28 pm
This is blatant racism and is unacceptable.
Turn this round and imagine how it would go down if someone in England, for instance, had written:
“While we must be a tolerant society, the English must understand that Bajan immigrants, with their high fertility rates, and their dislike of miscegenation with the Whites, have already destroyed the social cohesion of two European territories. Now they are invading England.”
This thread needs to be closed, and quickly.
###########################
Rubbish. Don’t be a bloody idiot. The difference between this utterance and its replication by the British where the subjects are Bajans is that there is no evidence to support that analysis of Bajans. You are saying in effect, that a statement that South American Countries need to be careful about large populations of White Supremacist polluting their society because of their cultural prejudices is racist because we would not like it if some other nation made the same references about Africans. Well Africans do not have that historical baggage. The negative cultural belief systems of groups cannot be balanced across a standard equation.
It is this ludicrous pattern of reasoning that is dumbing down this world to the point where one groups’ historical patterns of prejudice are becoming sacred cows, and those who, like Hans Christian Anderson’s little boy point out that fact, are villified as being racist.
If the British made that statement about Bajans they would be fabricating a non existent culture of beliefs and history. But that statement is true of the historical religious and cultural belief system that still inform how some Indians interact with blacks. And Guyana, Trinidad and Tobago, the Cape in South Africa, Kenya et al, all offer and present visible examples of this reality.
Anonjam // July 3, 2009 at 11:31 AM
David said:
Now tell us when we look at the Caricom nationals landed in Barbados, Skill Certificates issued, Work Permits issued etc they all reflect a picture of the Barbados welcoming Guyanese to Barbados and this even if we look at stats offered since June 1, 2009.
———————————-
What if tens of thousands of Indo-Guyanese with skill certificates were to enter the country within the next year or so, do you think people such as Negroman would be welcoming?
Judging from this thread, it seems to me that many of the posters have a problem with Indo-Guyanese; whether skilled or unskilled. The comments on this thread indicate that the fear of an increased Indo-Guyanese population is one of the reasons for the popularity of the government’s immigration policy.
I sincerely hope that this picture that you have described of “Barbados welcoming Guyanese” (Indo-Guyanese included) accurately reflects the attitude of the majority of Bajans. But based on the posts appearing on this thread, that hope is fading.
mash up & buy back // July 3, 2009 at 12:16 PM
When will VOB allow callers to express their views about the immigration issue freely?
What is going on with this radio station?
Why are they cutting off the remarks of almost every single caller speaking on the issue?
Surely ALL of these callers cannot be subjecting the station to libellous action?
David // July 3, 2009 at 12:16 PM
@Anonjam
Your reference is not valid because Barbados has to approve the skill certs issued.
GTMan // July 3, 2009 at 12:22 PM
You bajans are too foolish. Look allyuh PM in Guyana anointing Jagdeo. Jagdeo is a total failure and because of him,Barbados is in the situation it is in. Ask Jagdeo how he has committed genocide against the blks in Guyana.
Ruel Daniels // July 3, 2009 at 12:23 PM
Posters have a problem with the historical attitudes of Indian Guyanese. Read what is written and interpret it correctly. The fear that is endemic is conditioned by the experiences they see in Trinidad and Tobago, Guyana, Fiji, where there are large Indian and African Guyanese populations. The fear comes about because of a cultural belief system that is interpreted by many Indians as positioning blacks into a status of inferiority. To ignore this manifest reality in the images from bollywood, the caste system in India, the oppressive and racist Governance of an Indian regime in Guyana, and the behaviour of many Indians who run from Guyana to Caribbean islands for economic succor, and when they get there exhibit prejudice and intolerance against local blacks, is more than stupid, it is assinine.
Anonjam // July 3, 2009 at 12:55 PM
David,
I am not sure I understand you.
I know that the skilled certificates have to be verified (not approved). That is to say, if you produce a skills certificate issued in Guyana, you have six months to have it verified at the Barbados Accreditation Council. However that process is just to verify that the certificate being produced is legitimate. It is not an approval process subject to someone’s discretion.
The point being made is that there is nothing stopping skilled Indo-Guyanese nationals from coming to Barbados to seek work. It just so happens that skilled Indo-Guyanese have not shown much desire to leave Guyana to live in Barbados. You have described Barbadians as welcoming of Guyanese who come to Barbados legally. I am merely questioning how welcome Barbadians would be if skilled Indo Guyanese exercised their right to come to Barbados to seek employment.
199 // July 3, 2009 at 12:58 PM
@ both J and PBG,
I addressed several remarks to both of you earlier to which u have n’t replied! Did u not notice them or think them unworthy of reply! This is a psychological barrier which Barbadians need to overcome before u can ever hope to do anything, en masse! i.e. one of bad manners!!
thesoulstealer // July 3, 2009 at 1:23 PM
damn…….it’s like i stepped into the twilight zone
J // July 3, 2009 at 2:09 PM
Cheeze on bread 199.
I do not get paid to be on this blog. I have to earn my living you know.
And unlike a good looking Englishman like yourself I do not have a a wife nor a girlfriend, nor a housekeeping staff (not even an illegal Guyanese maid) so I have to do my own child care, shopping, and cooking, and washing, and ironing and cleaning and gardening.
But if you will repeat the question I’ll try to answer it when I get a chance.
Eyes Wide Open // July 3, 2009 at 2:21 PM
this is he most immature and close minded discussion I have seen on BU
199 // July 3, 2009 at 2:32 PM
Hi J, thanks for telling me off sweets!! I does get a little impatient, sometimes!! They’re at 07.18, 07.59, 08.14, etc!! You sound in need of a husband!! Shall I volunteer, or would u prefer an ‘illegal Guyanese maid?!!
lol!! :)
David // July 3, 2009 at 2:44 PM
@Anonjam
Prefer to deal with the current reality, the hypothetical we can address at another time.
peltdownman // July 3, 2009 at 3:06 PM
Can we assume, in light of the racist diatribes above, that it’s okay for black Guyanese to enter and stay in Barbados at will, but not ethnic Indians? By the way, hasn’t anybody noticed that Barbados has assimilated a large Hindu (and Muslim) population over the past 50 years without fuss?
Carson C. Cadogan // July 3, 2009 at 3:29 PM
“If you send the Guyanese home, sorry, you still have your cutlass-wielding compatriots to live with”
Coming from a country, Jamaica, where murder is a national sport second only to track and field, Livinginbarbados, you are in no position to give anyone advice.
Clean up Jamaica first!
livinginbarbados // July 3, 2009 at 3:56 PM
@CCC
That’s the spirit. Keep laughing at how the neighbour’s house on fire and don’t realise that the smoke you smell is from the one starting in your basement.
BOYCOTT THE NATION dot COME JOIN ME // July 3, 2009 at 3:58 PM
Its is time for Bajans to boycott the Nation Newspaper as well. (In the same way I did the Advocate). They are playing politics with the news and has been firing this issue in the most unpatriotic way. The fact is is that the newspaper and opposition are doing a great disservice to the nation and its honour. BAJANS BOYCOTT ..The NATION NEWSPAPERS >>>>NOW!!!!! They will feel it in a week time they need your $1, your $2.00 and and your $2.50 more than you realised. You will be surprised to learn what percentage of they total intake subs and daily charges accout for. DO IT NOT
Look are the paper today look at the front page look and the pages inside, Imagine the only first lady the country has had since 1996 has passed on and not even a pictural tribute has been render today. How can youth or any one be encouraged to have any respect for our institutions.
Jay // July 3, 2009 at 4:00 PM
I think when one injects ‘race or ethnicity’ in any factor they have already lost the war of messaging.
The idea of illegal immigration applies to all races & as such should face Barbados law in an equal fashion as there should be absolutely no ambiguity.The points & facts that I support are simple:
-Should Barbados continue with CSME at the costs of its own development ? No
-Should there be Freedom of Movement of all nationals ? No
-Should there be limited Freedom of movement pertaining to skilled nationals only ? Yes
-Should there be strict enforcement to deal with a very large problem ? Yes
-Should an immigration policy target only a set of people because of ‘ethnic fears’ ? No,My concerns stem from a financial & familial standpoint.
-Does the country have a future if this recession should persists ?Don’t know !
Hopi // July 3, 2009 at 4:24 PM
@PBG………..Is it too difficult for you to lend credence to the Ancients, that anything good/great could have descended from them?
In ancient Egypt, the word for yoga was Smai which means union. And the word Yoga mean to ‘yoke’ or to ‘link’ back…meaning to link the individual konsciousness back to its original source, the original essence, thru meditation but without a mediator. Before it was practised in the Indus Valley it was practised in Kmt by those who sought liberation from bondage to human pain and spiritual ignorance.
“Soul to heaven, Body to earth.”
“Muata”
Hopi // July 3, 2009 at 4:32 PM
@LIB……Eh! Eh! Why ya coming at me wid ya yardy ways? Ya tek off ya mask? Ya nah shame to xhibit ya stregate behayva in publick? Tek dat to Killston. Ya ask someone to help ya out and me being the kind, thoughtful being that I am decided to come to ya aid and that’s the thanks I get? Cha boy!
livinginbarbados // July 3, 2009 at 4:39 PM
@Hopi,
Si vous preferez, on peut parler en francais. Pour moi, la langue n’est pas la plus importante. Chaque langue joue son role. Mais, si tous ca vous echappe, ca je regrette.
Ca va?
livinginbarbados // July 3, 2009 at 4:41 PM
@Hopi
Never one to ignore a hand stretched out to help, as one never knows when that life saved can be the one that saves others.
Peace.
ace // July 3, 2009 at 4:48 PM
ITALY HAS MADE ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION A CRIME
ace // July 3, 2009 at 4:49 PM
ITALY HAS MADE
ILLEGAL
IMMIGRATION
A
CRIME
199 // July 3, 2009 at 5:01 PM
Carson C. Cadogan // July 3, 2009 at 3:29 pm
“If you send the Guyanese home, sorry, you still have your cutlass-wielding compatriots to live with”
Coming from a country, Jamaica, where murder is a national sport second only to track and field, Livinginbarbados, you are in no position to give anyone advice.
Clean up Jamaica first!
*****************
Lord!! Well done ‘Carson’ for saying so!! If I’d said it they’d want to kill me!! They love to pretend that I’m the only one who has these thoughts about Jamaicans and am in need of mental treatment, etc!! but it’s gratifying to see that I’m not the only Bajan with his eyes open!!
To conclude, I never listen to what any Jamaican has to say concerning anything at all!! As you suggested to him, “clean up your own country/people’s minds, first!! Mind u, I’m informed that they’re plenty of them currently in Bim!! The implications for Bim are obvious and horrendous!!
199 // July 3, 2009 at 5:03 PM
livinginbarbados // July 3, 2009 at 3:56 pm
@CCC
That’s the spirit. Keep laughing at how the neighbour’s house on fire and don’t realise that the smoke you smell is from the one starting in your basement.
**************
Yeah, spreading from the fire in yours!! Need one say more!!
Adrian Hinds // July 3, 2009 at 5:18 PM
Jamaicans got a bigger problem in Antigua than they do in Barbados. Some Antiguans are more accepting of Indo Guyanese than they are of Jamaicans, or so um seems.
LIB it seems that your 30 years in HINGLAND have left you with little love for white Brit being allowed in Barbados. Your views are very similar to a bajan friend of mine who has a similar number of years in the mother land as you do. On this score and if I am correct I agree with, but will not discount the current policy because it does not appear to include the subject of your angst.
My experience with both the white Brit and Guyana indic are very similar, and therefore while I would join with you to agitate that the Brits who are fleeing England though not in poverty be included in Barbados manage migration policy, and no Amnesty for them either. ha ha ha lol!
Negroman // July 3, 2009 at 5:19 PM
Boycott The Nation
I agree with you.The nation Newspaper ought to be boycotted.I started to boycott the paper but I give in just to give my friend I grew up with a daily sale by buying the Nation Newspaper.I do not buy any at all on the weekends.
I think it is a shame that our national newspaper could have Bharat Jagdeo the Guyana president accusing our Prime Minister of telling lies and receiving front page prominence in our daily newspaper It is very offensive and should be condemn.
The government of Barbados should stop advertising in the Nation Newspaper.I know the Democratic Labour Party as an organisation has decided not to have any weekly columns in the Nation Newspaper.It publishes it weekly column in the Heat Magazine operated by the Advocate.I believe the party should take it to another level and withdraw all government advertising from that despicable,disgraceful newspaper.The nation Newspaper get on average nearly $40,000.00 in advertising revenue from the government of Barbados monthlyI know this as a fact.Believe Negroman everything I say on the blog I can substantiate.The time has come for government advertisement to taken away from the Nation Newspaper.It is a wicked newspaper.
Harold Hoyte should be ashamed of himself.He took a struggling newspaper in 1970,’s built it to be the number 1 newspaper in Barbados and then took that newspaper and sold it to Trinidad.A typical Black business man who does not understand the importance of continuity.Harold Hoyte you are an idiot to sell our number 1 newspaper to bunch of Trinidadians who really do not have much regard for Barbados.It is being reflected in its hostile editorials & bias coverage of events in Barbados.
I support the call for a boycott of the Nation Newspaper.I have boycotted VOB and now I will boycott Nation newspaper.My friend will have to lose my sale of a daily Nation Newspaper
Enough is enough
LET BOYCOTT THE NATION NEWSPAPER NOW..
Adrian Hinds // July 3, 2009 at 5:24 PM
So 199 (bimbro) are you saying that LIB 30 year British experience occured because he is Jamaican? How could they tell? ha ha ha lol!
I don’t believe that. I was in London in 2007 for a week and half, and was called a nigger. I was shocked simply because it took me several years to be called such in the US.
livinginbarbados // July 3, 2009 at 5:30 PM
@AH
I have no negatve views about Brits of any hue, but I put forward and argument that spoke to the concerns laid at the feet of the Guyanese. David chose to ignore the problem as one for current concern but seemed to leave open its rising in priority later. By then I hope the Brits have not bought up Bimshire.
Now I must go an help a former colony celebrate its Independence from that former imperial mistress.
Anonjam // July 3, 2009 at 5:36 PM
“I never listen to what any Jamaican has to say concerning anything at all!! As you suggested to him, “clean up your own country/people’s minds, first!! Mind u, I’m informed that they’re plenty of them currently in Bim!! The implications for Bim are obvious and horrendous!!
———————-
You know, from what I can see, most of the Jamaicans in Barbados are professionals who are highly educated. I would think that the Jamaicans in Barbados now are probably making positive contributions to scoiety rather negative ones.
livinginbarbados // July 3, 2009 at 5:48 PM
One thing about thinking for yourself is that you realise that trotting out tunes from old 33s or 78s or CDs doesn’t impress. Follow fashion?
Whether the fire start next door or not, while you a laff an a kikki kiki your house still on fire.
Read and learn from Brer Nancy.
A lot of the commentary talks about some sort of homogenous Guyanese. Or worse Indo-Guyanese or Hindus. No matter that Hindus are a part and Muslim Guyanese have different values though similar features to Indian/Hindus. Like the man on the radio today telling Stetson about the Pakistanis expelled from Uganda by Amin, when the epole were descendants or originatiing from India. “Dem is all de same”. So keep up the pride and hope that when you a beg fi mercy coz someone tink yu is jus a Jamaykan an wan deal wid yu lik yu is criminal.
Bway, denial is a powerful drug, sah!
David // July 3, 2009 at 5:53 PM
What would have driven Italy an EU member to make the act of being an illegal immigrant an illegal act?
Hopi // July 3, 2009 at 5:55 PM
@LIB[andlovinit]…..Je ne pas parle francais! C’est la langue de coloniser,aussi. Et oui, the life you save might be your own. So adieu/ en Jamaica. layta!
livinginbarbados // July 3, 2009 at 5:57 PM
@199
“Mind u, I’m informed that they’re plenty of them currently in Bim!! The implications for Bim are obvious and horrendous!!” To the world! Imagine, Bim could pick up some medals in London 2012 if you get them naturalised.
“To conclude, I never listen to what any Jamaican has to say concerning anything at all.” So, who you responding to?
Sense is sense and nonsense is nonsense. No matter how you parse it (due deferrence to AH).
Got to go sing the praises to the US president. Sorry to leave so abruptly.
Hopefully, over the weekend you will all be watching the Williams sisters and the Federer-Roddick match.
Life is rich.
Straight talk // July 3, 2009 at 6:10 PM
David;
Try this for Italy being the magnet.
mash up & buy back // July 3, 2009 at 6:32 PM
David/BU
Did you just hear that david ellis interview with shridath ramphal.
I really got to hand it to ellis,he did ask some probing and intelligent questions this time.
When ramphal was asked why he used the term ‘ethnic cleansing’ – he said it was because of an EDITORIAL in the Nation he had read, that spoke about not disturbing the racial balance.
Asked by ellis if that constitutes ‘ethnic cleansing’ ,he said his prior comment refered to) something to the effect of) intimations of ethnic cleansing.
You could tell that he realise he was caught out with his ‘APANJAT’ policy being pushed.
By the way Negroman,I have started boycotting the nation newspaper too.
Roxanne gibbs and her odious anti- bajan bashing must be stopped.
All right thinking persons reading this blog need to put our money where our mouths are and show our disgust and dissatisfaction by not buying the Nation.
David // July 3, 2009 at 6:59 PM
@mash up
No we did not hear but how can we be surprise to hear him have to recant? It was a false statement!
We wait on our journalists putting Academic Norman Girvan and Videographer Annalee Davis under the same pressure to explain the use and agreement to the term “Gestapo tactics” used by our immigration officials when they appeared on a Jamaican radio show.
BTW we find it interesting that Minister Maxine McClean will represent on this issue on CBC’s People’s Business hosted by Peter Wicham on Sunday night.
Where is Arnie Walters?
We hope Minister McClean is kind to the BU family by recognizing we have been at the vanguard of this issue making us true patriots.
mash up & buy back // July 3, 2009 at 7:49 PM
So true David.
Where the hell is arnie walters,isn’t he the minister of immigration?
What is going on with that?
Jay // July 3, 2009 at 7:59 PM
@Straight Talk,
Thank you for the article.It actually raises more concern as to how the Caricom Single space would work considering some countries within CSME are corrupt & some actually officially offer Citizenship for mere cash or investment allowing anyone into the single space.
It raises quite a few issues with Guyana & Belize as well as they have territorial issues with their neighbours so how would we actually be able to PROTECT the Single space if another country still has boundary issues with another country outside the Single space?
I still have not seen 1 good reason why Barbados should drop its guard & approve of Free movement when there is no security foundation or managed SKILLED numbers into island states that are already overly-populated.It seems Caricom is setting up itself for failure & the P.M. & BLP members should know extremely clearly if ANY complete Free-Movement clause goes into affect there is going to be hell to pay.
BTW,It seems even Guyana’s nationals have sites dedicated to bringing down Barbados’ image.
http://notesfromasmallrock.blogspot.com/
Jay // July 3, 2009 at 8:09 PM
I thought I’d also add the following.
http://www.caribbeanamericanforum.com/?p=951
————————————————
“BROOKLYN, NEW YORK: Guyana’s President, Bharrat Jagdeo, in his address to the 30th Meeting of Caricom Heads of Government, which began in Guyana yesterday, appealed for the human rights of Guyanese to be respected by Barbadian Immigration authorities. But Jagdeo himself is not getting a pass from the New York based Caribbean Guyana Institute for Democracy (CGID). The Institute is demanding that Jagdeo heeds his own words.
CGID President, Rickford Burke, said Friday that although he agrees in principle with the Guyanese leader, Jagdeo has no honor on the subject of human rights and must heed his own counsel. Burke added that “Barbados is not the chief abuser of the human rights of Guyanese – the Jagdeo government is. The lack of respect the Guyana government demonstrates for its own citizens and its mediocre, despotic governance, invite the mistreatment of Guyanese in the region,” Burke observed.”
On May 5, 2009 Barbados Prime Minister, David Thompson, implemented a controversial new immigration policy of deporting undocumented Caricom nationals who entered Barbados after December 2005. Since then, immigration officials have conducted early morning raids on the homes of some suspected undocumented Caricom nationals, and have “deported” or “removed” them from Barbados. Guyanese constitute the largest immigrant block in Barbados. Over eighty percent of the Barbados deportees have been Guyanese.
President Jagdeo told the conference that “While countries have a sovereign right to determine their own immigration policies, the maltreatment of CARICOM citizens is repugnant to the Revised Treaty of Chaguaramas as well as to basic human decency.” Jagdeo also said that “If nationals are treated in such a manner by their own people then the region cannot expect a third country to receive its citizens in any better way.”
Responding to Jagdeo’s comments, Burke asserted that “while defending the human rights of Guyanese is a fiduciary function of the presidency of Guyana, President Jagdeo has no credibility to make this case, as the United Nations has established, and the Guyanese people know, that his government is the biggest violator of Guyanese human rights.”
Burke accused President Jagdeo of heading a repressive ethnocracy that uses discrimination and ethnic supremacy as instruments of governance. “The Jagdeo administration has an oppressive noose around the necks of Afro-Guyanese, which they systematically tighten, as if to subjugate that population into another form of servitude and political wilderness. He said that under Mr. Jagdeo’s predominantly Indian ruling People’s Progressive Party (PPP) government, Guyana has become a “hellhole” of ethnic and racial discrimination, torture and human rights violations.
Burke backed up his allegations by citing sections 34, 35, 65 and 70 of the February 23, 2009 Report of the United Nations independent expert on minority Issues, Ms. Gay McDougall (http://www.unhcr.org/refworld/pdfid/49bfa6ec2.pdf), which was presented to the United Nations General Assembly.
Section 34-35 of the report states that: “The independent expert encountered claims of widespread and institutionalized discrimination against members of the Afro-Guyanese community and indigenous peoples. Some described the “victimization” of poor Afro-Guyanese and an informal system of rights and privileges in society to which they lack access.”
Section 65 says “Concerns were expressed by Afro-Guyanese and others regarding numerous killings of young Afro-Guyanese men from 2002 to the present day, and the existence of what has been described as a “phantom death squad”. A wide array of people within the community put the number of deaths at between 200 and 400. The reports note execution style killings, disappearances and failure to adequately record or investigate the murders. The perception is of a collusion of Government and law enforcement with known criminals to facilitate the targeting and killing of young African males.”
70 states that, “NGOs and community members raised concerns regarding serious rights violations against Afro-Guyanese including arbitrary detention without trial, torture, deaths and mistreatment in custody, and killings of innocent civilians during operations by the joint services… It is claimed that, taken as a whole, these evidence a wider pattern and practice of gross rights violations against Afro-Guyanese and a failure of due process.”
Burke said amidst such gross atrocities by the Jagdeo administration and complaints about torture and human rights violations, Caricom leaders claim that they do not wish to interfere in the internal affairs of Guyana. He however said that while he agrees with their condemnation of some Barbados immigration practices, including alleged human rights violations, he find the double standard worrisome. “Clearly, they are interfering in Barbadian domestic policy, and rightly so. But what has been happening in Guyana is far more egregious. Their silence on Guyana is therefore hypocritical and repugnant to Caricom and its Charter of Civil Society,” he added.
Burke reiterated that Barbados’ sovereignty and domestic laws must be respected and that it should be expected that violators may be brought to justice. He however contended that “Raiding the homes of individuals, violating their human rights and deporting or removing them, without due process, exclusively for overstaying their time, is indeed repugnant to the spirit of Caricom and the Revised Treaty of Chaguaramas.”
Burke, who announced that he has written the Barbadian Prime Minister on the matter, urged Thompson to treat Guyanese fleeing Guyana humanely, as discrimination is pervasive and political and economic conditions perilous. He noted that international law prohibits deporting an individual back to a country of origin where that individual could be subjected to torture or political persecution.
He argued that apart from the deplorable raids, arbitrary deportations or removals and the alleged mistreatment of Caricom nationals, the fact that those being deported or removed from Barbados allegedly are not accorded fundamental due process to assure conformity to international law, should be unacceptable to the Caricom citizenry; including Barbadians, whom he said have a long tradition in the region of upholding civil and human rights.
The CGID head again stated that immigration policy throughout the region needs to be reformed and rationalized but that unilateral, singular and uncoordinated action by one government, is counterproductive to a harmonized regional policy approach that is compatible with deeper integration. He urged leaders meeting in Georgetown to develop a Caricom approach to migration across the region.
Burke also criticized some Jagdeo supporters and others whom he said “have interjected race into the discussion.” “There is no evidence that the Barbadian policy was tinged by ethnic considerations. I stand with the Prime Minister of Barbados in rejecting this ugly tactic, which does nothing but create deeper divisions and color the real issues being debated,” the CGID President stressed. “
Adrian Hinds // July 3, 2009 at 8:26 PM
Jay, it matter not what they say, it is not the truth. The facts are that as a people Guyanese are collectively failures. The proof all 80K + square miles cannot be hidden.
The Herdmanston accord
Peter Wickham articles accident by birth
the Mcdougall UN report
Prof. Richard Allsopp reasons for leaving Guyana and many more.
FAIL STATE, it’s becoming increasingly difficult to deny this status of Guyana.
livinginbarbados // July 3, 2009 at 8:30 PM
@Hopi
“@LIB[andlovinit]…..Je ne pas parle francais! C’est la langue de coloniser,aussi. Et oui, the life you save might be your own. So adieu/ en Jamaica. layta!”
Luvinitfitru. It is important to save life not destroy it.
Nuff said.
In Excess // July 3, 2009 at 10:36 PM
Breaking News – Orders issued to arrest Benschop, Witter, Lewis…
Friday, 03 July 2009
The commissioner of police ordered the arrest of Mark Benschop, Norris Witter, and Lincoln Lewis for what is said to be a peaceful protest in front of his office.
The three are said to be surrounded by police and under seizure at the time of this report.
http://www.guyanaobservernews.org/index.php?option=com_frontpage&Itemid=1
ROK // July 3, 2009 at 11:53 PM
The Ethnic Cleansing is happening in Guyana.
199 // July 4, 2009 at 3:38 AM
Hi Adrian, as LIB is a Jamaican, then, like everybody else in Britain, I’m not the slightest bit interested in anything he has to say about anything, as Cardagon indicated, until they become civilised, perhaps in a million years time!! I can’t recall the last time I was referred to as a nigger, if ever, but, if u were so soon, then it’s probably a direct consequence of the Brits’ experience of LIB’s people, Jamaicans! Not saying any more about them, Adrian, because Barbadians usually prefer to delude themselves where they’re concerned as I’ve discovered on this blog, many a time, before!!
Adrian, here’s a prediction for u!! With all those JAs in Bim, Bim will soon be finished. If u think crime is on the increase now, just give it a few more years until more of them grow up! Barbadians will suffer the consequences of their idiotic leaders brainless actions!!
From the other side, you’ll suffer a slow, long, lingering suffocation by the Indo-Guyanese!!
Welcome to Bim of the future!!
livinginbarbados // July 4, 2009 at 4:59 AM
@199
As one of the uncivilized wrote:
“I don’t care for no more brain washing
It isn’t good for my soul…”
ROMER // July 4, 2009 at 5:27 AM
This is more than 4 years now that I have boycotted the Nation. I was prepared to spend my money on folly.
But I see things way before other people, I still have to wait until people catch up though because when you tell them things , people so want to remain in a comfort zone that they dont beleive you.
If I had told someone months ago about MJ, no one would have believed me.
ROMER // July 4, 2009 at 5:29 AM
not prepared to spend
–sorry–
199 // July 4, 2009 at 6:03 AM
Dave, do u really think it’s a good idea to start a new discussion while this one’s still in full swing!
199 // July 4, 2009 at 6:08 AM
LIB, not interested in anything u have to say about anything especially while living in Bim!!
199 // July 4, 2009 at 6:16 AM
I’m as concerned as anyone about the Indo-Guyanese descent on Bim, however, here’s a glimpse of the future from none other than the erstwhile, ‘The Nation’ newspaper, itself!!
You decide whether u like it!! Many Bajan men seem to!!
http://www.nationnews.com/news/local/CROP-OVER-Guyanese-speak-out-copy-for-web
Adrian Hinds // July 4, 2009 at 6:53 AM
@Romer:
hold tight and be patient with your fellow Bajans. It does take a long time for them to catch on to things.
@199
But if you met LIB you couldn’t tell he is of Jamaican heritage, and I think im like it so!. ha ha ha ha ha ha ha lol!
livinginbarbados // July 4, 2009 at 8:54 AM
@199
That’s the spirit, keep turning your back and looking to bite off the hand. If you are in the UK, look forward to the selective approach of the British National Party, resting assured that as a Barbadian/Barbadian descendant, they will leave you alone while they focus on only Jamaicans.
One of the great strengths of the Caribbean is that we are all mixed up racially and we are not so easily identifiable as being of a particular nation. Jamaicans like Winkler (white), and Patterson (negro), and Lee-Chin (Chinese/negro), and Peter Tosh (Rasta/negro) will easily know each other for what they and why they are similar, but will be perceived as wholly different by others.
Keep believing that being a Bajan (of whatever hue or ethnic base) gives you a special protective coating in the bigger world. And make sure you speak out loudly in your best Bajan accent so that no one can think you are anything else.
Stay strong, live long.
Ruel Daniels // July 4, 2009 at 8:55 AM
I said this before and I will say it again. Bajans need to summarily dismiss the comments of those who deceitfully ignore the big picture and zoom into accusations that Bajans are racist. The people who are taking this tack are intellectually dishonest, and cognitively obtuse. Because if people suddenly run out of their big and spacious house across the street from you, and run into your little house seeking boarding and lodging, the reasoning they are fleeing their big house will definitely excite your intellectual curiosity. That a slew of fractured intellects continue to ignore the obvious while taking shots at Bajans is a product of their latent antipathy for Barbados, and their zeal at finally geting an opportunity to vent that antipathy.
The President of Country who ignore gross human rights abuses of its citizens, from hideous torture and mutilations to extra-judicial lynchings, does not have an iota of morality to lecture the leader of the country to which his countrymen are fleeing, about the treatment of Caricom citizens. The fact that he does is a prime example of the kind of moral relativity that inform the views of the regime in Guyana. These people are so abjectly disassociated from values like fairness and balance that they are capable of actively squeezing the life out of an individual opponent by choking, while lecturing an audience about the values of non violence.
Sigmund Freud and many of today’s social scientists considered such personalities as schizophrenic. How do you view them?
livinginbarbados // July 4, 2009 at 8:55 AM
@Adrian Hinds
I have never believed you to be a man without sense, so I will have to arrange to leave you some good reading material in a spot to be disclosed in Boston. You know my contacts.
Sargeant // July 4, 2009 at 9:37 AM
@LIB
Winkler (white), and Patterson (negro), and Lee-Chin (Chinese/negro), and Peter Tosh (Rasta/negro)
***********************************
You lost me with “Rasta/negro”, I need some clarification.
livinginbarbados // July 4, 2009 at 9:38 AM
@Jay
You sure you got the right target with the Notesfromasmallrock blog? I suggest a careful read is in order on several fronts.
livinginbarbados // July 4, 2009 at 9:59 AM
@David/Straight Talk
Being an EU country does not mean that you have some bar on legislating against illegal immigration (which seemed to be the implication of David’s question).
The link posted has a host of inaccuracies in it, and ‘caveat emptor’: just because it’s on the Internet does not make it true.
If you really are interested in this subject of migration into larger regional spaces, you need to look at the EU carefully. Countries on the outer frontier of the EU (or other regional common area) are always at risk if they are fringed by countries that have worse economic/social/political circumstances. So, you need to look at say several/all: Italy/north east Africa; Spain&Portugal [remembering that they only joined in the mid-1980s, and in the past had posed immigration problems for the older EU members]/north west Africa; Greece/former Yugoslavia; Germany & Austria/former Soviet Union [this has now moved east as central European countries that were in the Soviet camp, such as Poland, Bulgaria, the Baltic States, have joined the EU, so now you have them as the outer edge and Russia/Ukraine/Belarus as the areas of worse circumstances]; and the Republic of Ireland [joined EU in mid 1970s, and before that its citizens/borders had used the UK mainland and the province of Ulster/Northern Ireland as its gateways legally and illegally into the EU.
France and the UK posed special problems for immigration issues within the EU because their borders extended well beyond Europe and included their former colonies and administrative units in the Caribbean, Africa, and Asia.
David // July 4, 2009 at 10:04 AM
@LIB
It would be useful if you can list the inaccuracies.
livinginbarbados // July 4, 2009 at 10:25 AM
@David,
Much as I like to help, I’m not going to take on the role of reviewer, but would suggest that rather than just taking stuff as people post it, to do a bit of background checking. I know it’s a hard task, so don’t snarl because you think it’s impossible. But let me flag a few things.
“In 1973, due to racism against these foreigners, Algeria stopped migrating to the countries in the European Economic Community (ECC)” The oil crisis in 1973 changed Algeria’s circumstances dramatically and the country used the surge in oil prices to rebuild/redevelop the economy and thus make it less of a source of labour for France and elsewhere. Algerians did not suddenly wake up and smell the racism coffee!
“Unfortunately the housing situation in France is run by and paid for by the state” France has a large state owned sector in all spheres, but the state does not own all houses or the majority in many instances. I do not have a source that is right up to date, but look at http://www.demographia.com/db-frhomeown.htm, which shows that in some administrative areas, owner occupation is well over half.
“The hard part for these people is gaining entry into the EU, after that they probably will not even need a passport to travel from country to country as a result of the Schengen Treaty of 1985, giving all members inside the EU the right to move freely across the borders.” Rot! Free movement is for EU citizens, not just people who have entered the EU area (as we discussed elsewhere recently on Schengen visas). A foreigner in a EU country is a foreigner and can move as long as his/her entry visa is in tact, and he/she stays within the limitations of the visa–if there is a work permit, then we have no issues for work in the prescribed country only/assigned employer [eg, look at non EU citizen footballers]. But movement and right to work are not the same. And be assured, although border controls are not necessarily rigid, they are applied and if you are a suspect and found to be committing an infraction you will be denied entrance and returned from whence you came.
livinginbarbados // July 4, 2009 at 10:33 AM
@Sargeant
“You lost me with “Rasta/negro”, I need some clarification.”
Rastafarianism is not an ethnic category: Jamaica has non-blacks who are Rastas; not many, but they exist. The Rasta was also (and in some spheres, still is, despite much changes) an outcast in Jamaican society, even when he was reverred outside (as epitomized by the likes of Bob Marley). So, my little descriptor held a lot of social overlay.
David // July 4, 2009 at 10:40 AM
@LIB
You comment that the post from ST is riddled with inaccuracies and then you expect BU to do the research to prove your assertion?
livinginbarbados // July 4, 2009 at 11:36 AM
@David
“Have not heard OUR Prime Minister declare in his last press conference that the new immigration policy will be circulated shortly?”
I gave a reply to this yesterday, but as I read the Advocate today (p9), I wonder why PM Thompson did not do the following:
July 2/3: Announce to Caricom heads of government that Barbados will be publishing a new immigration policy from August 1 (implied date in PM’s remarks). Indicate that it may have several important elements that will affect certain national groups [this is no major secret, because of the general knowledge of from where people are coming) but it prepares the ground. [The PM also has a ready-made forum for bilateral talks with HOGs to touch on certain sensitivities on all sides, out of the public glare.]
After Caricom HOG announce that new policy will involve an amendment to amnesty with effect from August 1, giving details (this is the same as the announcement in May with a June 1 start date).
My nagging question is why with a long period of tolerance for illegal migrants it was necessary to precede the general policy announcement with the declaration of an amnesty, whose context was not clear? Moreover, is/was the 2 months difference really so important and why?
livinginbarbados // July 4, 2009 at 11:40 AM
For clarification, when I say “tolerance for illegal immigrants” I mean the problem was well known but not effectively tackled. Not that the presence of illegals was in any way something that the general population wanted to tolerate.
David // July 4, 2009 at 11:41 AM
@LIB
You should email Peter Wickham or call the People’s Business Sunday Night 7.30PM sharp.
199 // July 4, 2009 at 11:56 AM
Being familiar with the excessively, thick skull of your people, it’s no wonder to me that LIB, still has n’t got the message so I’ll re-iterate it!! As CC Codogan said:
“Coming from a country, Jamaica, where murder is a national sport second only to track and field, Livinginbarbados, you are in no position to give anyone advice.
Clean up Jamaica first!”
************
Try hard and see if you can get that through your thick brain LIB!!
199 // July 4, 2009 at 11:58 AM
I’ve never known a people so keen to tell the rest of the world what to do when their own country’s in such a mess, itself!! As we would say!!:
Idiocy pun top of idiocy!!
livinginbarbados // July 4, 2009 at 12:00 PM
@David
“You should email Peter Wickham or call the People’s Business Sunday Night 7.30PM sharp.”
Please send me an email on this to clarify the why. I can decide what tack I want to take. Thanks
199 // July 4, 2009 at 12:02 PM
Adrian, the fact that he’s indistinguishable from us is nothing to be proud of, but to be lamented!! We will pay the consequence, in the end!!
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Adrian, I don’t agree that they’re indistinguishable from us, anyway, and neither do they!! I think you’re entering for a bit of self-comforting, self-delusionment there, Ad, which won’t be to your benefit, at all!!
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
It’s like saying Pakistanis are indistinguishable from Indians!! Who’s fooling who, here, Adrian?!!
livinginbarbados // July 4, 2009 at 12:13 PM
@199
““Coming from a country, Jamaica, where murder is a national sport second only to track and field, Livinginbarbados, you are in no position to give anyone advice.” [So that those less gifted than you can determine how it works, is it the six years from birth in Jamaica that determine my cranium size and thickness. Or is it the 30 years in England that has determined its size and thickness? Or is the 20 years in the US? Or is it the time spent living in west Africa? It's all nature and no nurture?] [Murder is not so high up the list. I suggest you read a bit further and see some of the analysis by Kevin O'Brien Chang--an interesting Jamaican/Chinese/Canadian--I do not know about his cranium size or thickness. Sex and infidelity are much higher up the Jamaican scale than both of the others combined and outstrips (bad pun) crime by miles, with a terrible propensity to impregnate the women of other men (aka 'jacketing', which supposedly covers about 1/3 of births).]
“I’ve never known a people so keen to tell the rest of the world what to do when their own country’s in such a mess, itself!! As we would say!!:
Idiocy pun top of idiocy!!” [I dare say that tells me that you have not travelled much or met many people. That is a pity, but you have time. I suggest you try visiting any of the following to get a taste of very opinionated people: Russia (the language is a bit tough and the winters are harsh); Germany (nicer in the summer, but also a nasty tendency to think of black people as backward); France (again, maybe language issues, but Rosetta Stone works well, and the food and wine are fantastic; they help you stomach the opinions and learning that only the French have any ideas worth considering); finally, Greece (where thoughts that civilization and the capacity for thinking can come from anywhere else is met with such ridicule that people have often been seen in tears as their heritages are demolished). If you need other tips for any of these places or in learning the languages, I can help with the Russian and French,and have good friends in Athens who can teach. My brother in law in Germany will offer a great guided tour and is fluent in German and English.
All the best and make sure that the Schengen visa is stamped for the right port of entry. Bon voyage.]
livinginbarbados // July 4, 2009 at 12:33 PM
@199
In case it has not filtered through, my brain thrives on ardent criticism. So, if you say nice things my mind will be starved of the ‘oxygen’ that keeps it pumping. Sorry, if that puts you between a rock and a hard place.
livinginbarbados // July 4, 2009 at 12:43 PM
@David
“You comment that the post from ST is riddled with inaccuracies and then you expect BU to do the research to prove your assertion?”
No. You misunderstand. I followed my comment with some examples–and the contrary facts are easy to establish. I mean that certain statements such as on French state home ownership are easy to check; Algeria’s recent economic and social history is no major new story. So, I would flip it back to the author to substantiate. Hence my saying it is a hardship for you. (We’ve discussed before the moderator role, so it’s in that context. That said, I realise that the blog format does not make interaction with various posters easy, except through the threads.)
I’ll continue to offer counterfacts where I can/feel inclined.
The Scout // July 4, 2009 at 12:47 PM
LIB
IS a real SICK HEAD Jamaican> I hope we don’t many more like him in Barbados
Themis // July 4, 2009 at 12:57 PM
It’s nothing short of amazing and juvenile how quick the personal insults flow once you disagree with some people’s point of view on this blog. @ Scout, have you persuaded your QC friend to say why Cumberbatch is misleading the public yet?
livinginbarbados // July 4, 2009 at 1:01 PM
@199
“It’s like saying Pakistanis are indistinguishable from Indians!! Who’s fooling who, here, Adrian?!!”
[The Barbadian (like you, I don't know), who was telling Stetson Babb about the expulsions from Uganda by Amin did not have a problem with citing Pakistanis, when it was mainly Indians.]
Barbadosbelle // July 4, 2009 at 1:03 PM
I’m afraid you will experience what we in the UK are experiencing with the creation of the EU – i.e. just about everything that happens in the legal and employment sense is to the benefit of people like the Eastern Europeans and the detriment of the indigenous population. Our Eastern Europeans (with their violence, laziness, disrespect of females and their complete indifference to the sanctity of human life) will be copied by the Guyanese, Jamaicans and Trinidadians who will, and already are, coming to your wonderful island. We love Barbados and come as often as we can and we love Port St Charles and often chat and have fun with Barbadians on the North Beach by Haywards (so don’t make a problem here when there really isn’t one, and when there are many more serious things to consider). If we in the UK could get out of the EU then we would (we were promised a vote on it but it never happened) and I would suggest that if you have any viable politician who is anti the Caricom
Passport arrangement then he/she should be encouraged. Believe me, we DIDN’T need the EU (and should have remained more loyal to Australia and New Zealand) and we are certainly no safer for being part of it – and you DON’T need the other islands. The Tourist industry is a very important part of the economy of Barbados and if visitors don’t feel safe then they will go elsewhere.
livinginbarbados // July 4, 2009 at 1:04 PM
@The Scout
“LIB
IS a real SICK HEAD Jamaican> I hope we don’t many more like him in Barbados”
I’m still working on the details, but if the new program comes off, then I may get the chance to invite you onto TV here so that you too can speak to the people in front of the camera. Ready for that? I would hope to be the host, so that might give me a certain leverage but I would try to be even handed with the guests.
David // July 4, 2009 at 1:09 PM
@The Scout
The strrengh of any argument/position is one that can withstand a robust rebuttal.
livinginbarbados // July 4, 2009 at 1:09 PM
@Barbadosbelle
“Our Eastern Europeans (with their violence, laziness, disrespect of females and their complete indifference to the sanctity of human life) will be copied by the Guyanese, Jamaicans and Trinidadians”
This is a real problem. I was just coming to terms with the fact that the Jamaicans (like me by birth, but brought mainly up in UK) were the originators of all the problems and just like that I have to see my peeps give way to East Europeans and have it that they gwin teach me how to be bad?
I think you should consult with ‘199′ so that I can get my guilt straightened out.
199 // July 4, 2009 at 1:32 PM
The incontinence which LIB speaks is amazing and limitless, and typical of Jamaicans, even though he was raised in another country! i.e., they’re incorrigible!! I told u about the thickness of their skulls!!
"*Adviser to the President*" // July 4, 2009 at 1:39 PM
KEEP YOUR POST SHORT: If the posts are too long , I will read two lines and move on. If the post are long split them up but keep them short a la 199
199 // July 4, 2009 at 1:45 PM
‘Adviser’, thank you for the commendation. Would that my people would listen to me in all regards!! They’d be so much better informed and advised!!
livinginbarbados // July 4, 2009 at 1:47 PM
@Themis
“It’s nothing short of amazing and juvenile how quick the personal insults flow once you disagree with some people’s point of view on this blog. @ Scout, have you persuaded your QC friend to say why Cumberbatch is misleading the public yet?”
[It's somewhat similar on the call in programs, when callers are asked to substantiate claims, then instead rail at the moderators, and/or want to change subject. Does the emporor have on any clothes?
I may meet a QC this afternoon and ask his view. The laws are open to several interpretations, we know, and lay people may have their views but its the courts that determine. Some logical tests may help such as thinking through the rights of a person who has committed one illegal act, but other legal acts, and wondering if his/her rights are in all cases nullified because of a certain illegal act. Simple example, illegal immigrant uses own money to buy goods, which are then stolen. Yes, migrant is in country illegally, but crime of theft against him/her still taken place. Legal process have to deal now with two crimes. Migrant may well be sent out of country but thief has to go to jail, and migrant gets to keep his purchase. Not currently able to spend much time on this, though.]
livinginbarbados // July 4, 2009 at 1:55 PM
@199
“The incontinence which LIB speaks is amazing and limitless,”
Incontinence has two meanings in my dictionaries:
a. failure to restrain sexual appetite;
b. inability of body to control evacuative functions.
If iz hay, no gi de peeple de wrong impressun bout me, now. Me no wan no strife inna mi yard.
If iz bee, me ha sum herb medsyn dat work real fas.
Yardbroom // July 4, 2009 at 2:52 PM
@livinginbarbados July 4, 2009 at 12:13pm
I seek not to take issue with you but you have given us a “short” world tour.
I have visited all the countries you have visited and plenty more besides, and spent longer in some than you have.
However, on the blogs it does not mean a thing what “I” have done, all that matters is the word on the page, no more no less.
The old lady hawker with a basket on her head daily in Brittons Hill, is worthy of note…if the correct words are on the page.
Jay // July 4, 2009 at 6:05 PM
@Barbadosbelle
I know exactly what you’re saying & know the particular details as it relates to the UK.The only thing I can suggest is to vote for the BNP & see if the Lisbon treaty can be approved.I believe there is an opt-out of the EU clause in their somewhere.
Some friends here in the US from the UK clearly remember the debates as it related to Poland & Free movement hence their own exodus to here.600,000 people is a lot to visit just one territory from another !
basfito // July 4, 2009 at 9:31 PM
Beneficial information. Thank you.
http://ethnicindo.blogspot.com
J // July 4, 2009 at 11:54 PM
“David asked on // July 3, 2009 at 5:53 pm…What would have driven Italy an EU member to make the act of being an illegal immigrant an illegal act?”
Dear David: It is because the Italians, are racists, just as you David are racist.
The illegal immigrants flowing into Italy are like you and me Afric people, and the Italians don’t want them in Italy, because they are black like me, and black like you.
Although of course Afric people have migrated to, traded with, and had sexual intercourse with, Italian people for tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of years, but the Italians prefer to pretend that it ain’t so, and take great offense if someone points out that brown skinned Italians are evedently of partly African descent.
Unfortunately David you are not the only racist in the world.
You asked a question. I have provided a well reasoned answer.
You will never get any fairy stories from me.
J // July 4, 2009 at 11:58 PM
Boycott the Nation wrote “Look are the paper today look at the front page look and the pages inside, Imagine the only first lady the country has had since 1996 has passed on and not even a pictural tribute has been render today.”
Since Lady Husbands has close relatives in senior positions at the Nation, do you really believe that her own close relatives would wish to insult her?
Study ya head good before ya answer.
Sometime you know there is NO conspiracy.
J // July 5, 2009 at 12:09 AM
Dear 199
Re your questions at 7:57 a.m. on Friday.
I had an uncle who used to say that a drunk man reveals a sober mind, but since he was always drunk when he said so, I still haven’t figured out what he meant. And I’ve been seriously thinking about it for more than 40 years.
You question about Jamaicans. The Jamaicans in Barbados seem to be a quiet, hard working well behaved lot. I know that you may never speak to me again, but I LIKE Jamaicans.
J // July 5, 2009 at 12:11 AM
I’ve checked and I cannot find any questions from you at 7:18 nor 8:14 Friday morning, so no I cannot answer the questions which are not there.
A happy Sunday to you.
199 // July 5, 2009 at 3:17 AM
Hi J, I’m happy u, at last, got free of the kids/work/houshold chores, etc!! I made quite a few responses to u at 07.59 on 3rd July!!
Also, u did n’t answer my very important question, thus:
“You sound in need of a husband!! Shall I volunteer, or would u prefer an ‘illegal Guyanese maid?!!”
lol!! :)
Also, why should the Italians want thousands of Africans flooding into their country! Should n’t a country have any say in this matter?!!
Darling, a ‘quiet, hard-working, well behaved lot’ of Jamaicans is a near-impossibility, in my experience! Hope they’re not managing to hide the truth from u!!
And, BTW, if you’re going to church this morning, just imagine that I’m with u!! :)
A happy, Sunday to you, too!!
199 // July 5, 2009 at 3:19 AM
J, I like them too, when they’re well behaved. Unfortunately, that’s only once in a blue-moon!!
Anonymous // July 5, 2009 at 7:01 AM
I notice that the captain of the Barbados Basketball team is a Zahir Motara! Things that make you go hmm.
Anonymous // July 5, 2009 at 10:40 AM
DAVID/BU
BREAKING NEWS?
David can you please help us the readers by going on Starbroek news and reading where Jagdeo has managed to knock out thompson with a big foot move.
There seems to be a late night agreement PUSHED BY jAGDEO WHICH EXPANDS THE SKILLED PERSONS TO INCLUDE’DOMESTIC WORKERS’ OR MAIDS.
Now tell me in the name of good conscience WHY THOMPSON ALLOWED THIS.
jAGDEO REITERATED THAT THESE PERSONS WILL NOW HAVE AN AUTOMATIC 6 MONTH ENTRY INTO THE COUNTRY AND WILL BE ABLE TO WORK.
IMMEDIATELY HE HAS OPENED THE DOOR FOR ALL HIS UNSKILLED GUYANESE PEOPLE WHO WERE BEING SENT OUT TO NOW COME BACK IN.
What the r*sshole I hearing though.
David,please tell me if I am wrong.
Antigua has not signed on to it because they said it will create problems and the need a study to be done on the migrant issue,but jackass thomopson let jagdeo get this one over him.
Look I want somebody to confirm if this is so,and if thompson really allowed this I believe the whole damn country should protest in every way possible.
I dun with that man if he allowed this.
Anonymous // July 5, 2009 at 11:06 AM
Lindsay Holder
Can you add anything to this new info on expanded categories?
Anonjam // July 5, 2009 at 11:11 AM
PUSHED BY jAGDEO WHICH EXPANDS THE SKILLED PERSONS TO INCLUDE’DOMESTIC WORKERS’ OR MAIDS
___________
This was agreed a long time ago. It isnt anything new.
Themis // July 5, 2009 at 11:23 AM
I’m afraid it is so, Adrian.
Anonymous // July 5, 2009 at 11:28 AM
Anojam
That is not true.
It clearly states that this is an expanded version of the skilled persons.
What skills will these maids have to demonstrate to get a ’skilled certificate?’
The categories were always,graduates of UWI,Artists,journalists and I think entertainers.
Now maids can have an automatic entry into barbados of 6 months and their spouses – so for e.g. their unskilled husband who will not be covered by CSME can now work and they are allowed to bring in their whole family – so look for grandmother,aunt,uncle,nephews and nieces coming using up the social services,going to school,working illegally.
Is thompson such an ass?
So why pretend that there are exemptions at all.
Don’t bother to send back the guyanese because they will all be coming back legally.
That is why Antigua and Belize said NO to this expanded version.
Themis // July 5, 2009 at 11:31 AM
Check http://www.stabroeknews.com
anonjam // July 5, 2009 at 11:36 AM
Check link I posted some time earlier. It was agreed that this was going to be the next step. Owen arthur administration was in charge.
Anonymous // July 5, 2009 at 11:41 AM
So why couldn’t david thompson do like antigua and belize and asked to be exempted.
This is crazy.
anonjam // July 5, 2009 at 11:41 AM
Posting from black berry and having difficulties. I apologize if this post appears more than once.
Check link I posted some time earlier. It was agreed that this was going to be the next step. Owen arthur administration was in charge.
HORRIFIED // July 5, 2009 at 12:20 PM
WHAT? Domestic maids? You know what will happen? The “master” of the household will waste no time in getting them pregnant and nuff more Guyanese will be born in Barbados. We are well and truly stitched up. Thompson has betrayed us. He is a wimp. All is lost. Scout, where are you?
anonjam // July 5, 2009 at 12:37 PM
@ themis
Remember, it was initally envisioned that they would free moverment of all nationals.skilled antionals were supposed to be a first step. It was agreed quite some time ago that the catagories of skilled persons were to be expanded this year to include domestic workers and artisans. These workers will still need to get certified though.
Themis // July 5, 2009 at 12:47 PM
I agree, anonjam. This was previously agreed.
Anonymous // July 5, 2009 at 12:47 PM
Bajans GET UP AND FIGHT!
THOMPSON HAS JUST SOLD OUT YOUR COUNTRY.
There is now COMPLETE FREE MOVEMENT OF EVERYONE – ESPECIALLY THE GUYANESE.
WE ARE NOT DLP NOR BLP – TODAY WE ARE BAJANS FIRST.
WE CANNOT ALLOW THIS TO HAPPEN.
BAJANS MAKE YOUR VOICES HEARD.
Angry. // July 5, 2009 at 12:51 PM
Why,why,why Mr Thompson.
Why did you do this to us after promising us to get the rid of these people.
Now this agreement says that maids and their spouses and chilren and other immediate family can come and live here,first for 6 months and then for an idefinite amount of time.
So why bother having an immigration desk at the airport at all.
Jay // July 5, 2009 at 1:08 PM
Yes,the Barbados Government will now be inundated with all forms of people from the rest of the Caribbean,now that ‘domestic workers’ have been added with no limits on numbers.
It is said that as soon as they show certificates at the airport that they will also be able to work immediately in said country according to the so called Chairman of Caricom.Migration is not a RIGHT it is a Privelege but now that Government of Barbados under Mr. Thompson has signaled agreement with this it has become a RIGHT in Barbados.
What is shockingly clear also is that immediate members will also be able to work upon entry without a work permit & be allowed to stay PERMANENTLY in the country that they are traveling in CSME member states.It also seems that they will be reviewing Full movement within CSME by the end of the year.They will also be able to access EMERGENCY HEALTHCARE & PRIMARY SCHOOL EDUCATION which will be ALL at the Barbados taxpayer’s expense.
Mr. Thompson has essentially sold Barbados to CSME & the BLP has won !
———————————–
David // July 5, 2009 at 1:25 PM
We respect the comments so far on the plan to include domestics which as stated above is not new. What will be interesting is to see how this impacts the governments new immigration policy. For example what will be the role of the Accreditation Council? At this point we will wait for the official government respond to the change before we comment.
anonjam // July 5, 2009 at 1:33 PM
I don’t know that it would make you guys feel any better but such persons will still need to be certified. So for example, a domestic worker from will need to be certified by sjjp. Well I think this was the inital plan, not sure if that has changed.
lholder // July 5, 2009 at 1:34 PM
Anonymous,
Google Stabroek News and you will see an article dealing with the decisions reached on free movement of individuals. Based on the decision to include household domestics, the categories of individuals now allowed to move freely has been increased to ten.
Note, however, that the decision on domestics is not as earth shattering as some people seem to think. The issue of including domestics in the categories of individuals benefitting from free movement was discussed as far back as 2006, if I am not mistaken.
If you want to analyse the matter dispassionately, first ascertain the number of skilled nationals that have relocated to Barbados since the implementation of the free movement policy three years ago. As far as I recall, that number does not exceed 1,000. I maybe wrong, so confirm the number. Then ask yourself how many domestics are likely to relocate to Barbados on an annual basis. With that approach, you can develop a feel for the impact of the addition of domestics to the categories of workers.
Note, and this is important, domestics must meet certain qualification criteria. If individuals enter Barbados under the guise of being domestics and do not meet the specified criteria, whatever those may be, then they automatically beome undocumented immigrants who can be detained and repatriated at the will of the Government.
Anonymous // July 5, 2009 at 1:44 PM
Lindsay
What will be the criteria for getting a skilled certificate for a domestic?
Lindsay a domestic is someone who will clean,and wash and cook.
Is there a test to show you are a good washer or cleaner?
Remember this person must be granted immediate right of entry for 6 months at which time they can work right away,as well as their husband,who may also be unskilled.
After that they have indefinite stay in Barbados.
Lindsay I am not getting it that you seem o.k. with this.
Can you not see how this will open the floodgates?
Jay // July 5, 2009 at 1:47 PM
Anyone who wishes to see the specifics on whom agreed with what can check it out at the following.It is a .pdf file so make sure you have Adobe acrobat.
http://www.grenadabroadcast.com/index2.php?option=com_content&do_pdf=1&id=5519
Anonymous // July 5, 2009 at 1:48 PM
Lindsay
To you again if it is no big thing,then why did Antigua and Belize ask for a deferral because of the strain it will cause to their social infra-structure?
Are we so wealthy than while on the one hand we were complaining of pressures caused by these immigrants,yet we are suddenly opening the door to the group which represents the largest of them all?
Themis // July 5, 2009 at 1:52 PM
Lindsay, domestics must also possess a “skills” certificate. I suspect that the concern shown is because the domestic worker is not “classed” as wothy of any benefits. They can settle a bit however, the domestic must compete for work with other CARICOM nationals including locals. And a domestic would not normally possess the wherewithal to maintain him or herself for long in a jurisdiction without a job. The RTC does not give a right to employment, merely the right to seek employment.
Anonymous // July 5, 2009 at 2:06 PM
Themis
Any one with a modicum of common sense knows that this right here just opens the door for unscrupulous employers to by-pass bajan labour and get cheap guyanese labour for $30.00 and $40.00.
Bajans will show no loyalty to other bajans but will be going for the cheapest and we all know that $40.00 bajan is equivalent to thousands of guyanese dollars.
The only person who will benefit from this is jagdeo,and he knows it and thompson knows it.
No one is going to Guyana,but everyone wants to come to barbados.
Now there is NO excuse to stop these persons with their’skilled certificates’,and they will be bringing up their husbands to work in the said construction and every where else without a work permit.
These spouses are now not required to have one.
Then their children will be getting free education and free health care,and you are telling me that the right to seek employment is not the right to employment.
Well bajans now can kiss these domestic and other jobs good-bye – the guyanese knew what they were saying when they said they were not leaving barbados.
Better the DEVIL you knew..
At least we knew where you stood with owen arthur.
Why did thompson waste taxpayers money and call the regional press conference and talk a load of shite.
Jagdeo got everything he wanted and he now seems to be running both barbados and guyana.
Hip,hip HOORAY ,to Jagdeo and Gonsalves.
The guyanese,the vincentians and the jamaicans will be on our doorsteps from tomorrow.
Jay // July 5, 2009 at 2:08 PM
@ Themis & Anonymous you both have it right.
@Mr. Holder,I’m sure you know that Jagedeo is preparing for his people to move overseas by his words “Giving them a skill”.The Guyana Government is exporting their people by “Giving them a skill” & last time I checked most ‘domestic workers’ needed at most a vocational degree.
I am of the opinion that unemployment amongst Barbados citizens are on the increase & we as a country need more nannies,butlers etc. entering as ‘domestic workers’,I don’t think so !!!!!
No one without at least a 2 year or 4 year degree should be allowed to enter Barbados permanently,imo.The country needs skills not more who’d be a burden on the country.
Themis // July 5, 2009 at 2:24 PM
This is where TRUE managed migration should come in? How many domestics, if any, do we need a year? Should they have a right to bring in their spouses? Do these spouses have a right to work? OI know these questions have been answered by the RTC, but this is what managed migration is really about, not merely deporting non-nationals.
Anonjam // July 5, 2009 at 2:46 PM
Anonymous said:
“The guyanese,the vincentians and the jamaicans will be on our doorsteps from tomorrow.”
———————-
I am not sure that the Jamaicans will be flocking to Barbados. As I said before the average Jamaican that comes to Bim is very educated. They generally only come to live in Barbados because they have married a Bajan or because they have been transferred by their employers.
It don’t get the impression that the average uneducated Jamaican is very interested in coming to live in Barbados (some of them don’t even know where to find it on the map). They prefer the states or England. Jamaicans love their country despite its problems and contrary to popular belief they don’t seem to be plotting to invade our lovely shores.
lholder // July 5, 2009 at 2:59 PM
Anonymous,
Themis is right.
A domestic cannot sustain herslef for long without a job. Under the applicable provisions, an individual who enters the island as a domestic is prohibited from working in other areas. That individual does not have the right to choose the job of her own liking; that can only occur if the individual is subsequently granted permanent residence or some similar status.
Also note that the provisions that allows individuals to bring in their spouses and immediate dependents only applies to those relocating under the ‘Rights of Establishments’ clauses of the Revised Treaty of Charaguamas. Domestics do not fall under those provisions.
Anonymous // July 5, 2009 at 3:08 PM
But lindsay you are not addressing what I said earlier.
Employers will want to hire these cheap form of labour so they will be able to sustain themselves and their families because they will be working.
I am not sure I understand the last paragraph.
If now domestics are added to the other skilled categories,and these other skilled categories are allowed to bring in their family -are you saying that despite this domestics are debarred?
As to anojam,you cannot be serious?
Unskilled jamaicans are here in the tens of thousands working in the strip clubs as prostitutes,they are around the garrison savannah at nights,they are working in federal racing pools,they are illegally working as shop assistants,cleaners,maids,gardeners,carpenters,masons and the usual ‘catch-all’:nail technicians and hairdressers.
Anojam obviously you are a jamican defending your people,but you can’t try to pass that one off.
What skilled jamaicans what!
Anonjam // July 5, 2009 at 3:13 PM
an individual who enters the island as a domestic is prohibited from working in other areas.
——–
I am not sure that is true. I will verify, but i am not sure that the Caricom National who gets a skills certificate as a domestic worker is limited to a specific type of job.
For example a Trinidadian attorney who has obtained a skills certificate and is seeking a job in Barbados is not limited to working as an attorney. There is nothing stopping him or her from working as a journalist for example. In the same way, there is nothing stopping a journalist who has obtained a skills certificate from working as a receptionist.
I have not heard of any limitations which will be placed on domestic workers.
I will check the relevent legislation and get back to you.
Anonjam // July 5, 2009 at 3:20 PM
I am not Jamaican. What I am saying is from my observation.
Tens of thousands? Really? That is a large number. Haven’t noticed it myself.
Niether one of us really can say how many Jamaicans are in Barbados but I highly doubt that it is tens of thousands.
I wont argue with you but I have seen what you have seen.
Anonjam // July 5, 2009 at 3:21 PM
Sorry, meant to say that I have not seen what you have seen
livinginbarbados // July 5, 2009 at 3:23 PM
Without getting too much into the new twist to the thread, it’s worth thinking about what the communique says:
“They also agreed that household domestics who have obtained a Caribbean Vocational Qualification or equivalent qualification will be allowed to move with effect from 1 January 2010.”
This is a door that swings both ways. For Barbados, say, national domestics in this country are not (and may not be held) to this ’standard’; so a foreign worker should face an initial barrier, and at the outset for sure (unless some can show that a stock of already certified domestics exists outside the country) the barrier may be hard to cross.
Looking ahead, it also says to national domestics, who perhaps wanted to move but could not because of their supposed lack of ’skill’, if you now qualify/get vocational training, you may benefit from moving in the region. That opens a door for outward migration within the region that was previously closed.
(I think I have the logic right, but others can consider. It is also predicated on there being a regional standard. It would be a nonsense to let each country determine the standard, which could obviously be manipulated.)
livinginbarbados // July 5, 2009 at 3:30 PM
@LHolder/Anonjam
The details are as always important. But the nature of vocatitional training would make the nature of the skill narrow and I would expect that the region would want to hold onto the limitation: it’s in each countries interest to do that, I think.
On Lindsay’s “A domestic cannot sustain herslef for long without a job”. This is not something you can be sure of (a priori), and it really matters what one calls ‘long’, so I would caution running too fast or far with the idea.
lholder // July 5, 2009 at 3:35 PM
Anonjam,
You are unlikely to find an applicable clause in the Revised Treaty of Charaguamas (RTC) dealing with your query. In practice, however, the granting of skills certificates implicitly says that if you enter as a domestic, you are expected to work as a domestic. If I am not mistaken, a stamp is placed in your passport indicating that the permission granted to the individual to stay in the island is based on the possession of a skills certificate. If a domestic therefore is employed, e.g., as a shop assistant, that permission can be revoked.
Anonymous,
Individuals with skills certificates relocating to Barbados do not have automatic permission to bring their families with them. That permission is granted on a discretionary basis.
The ‘Rights of Establishments’ provisions of the RTC apply mainly to CARICOM nationals setting up businesses in CARICOM countries other than their own.
Anonjam // July 5, 2009 at 4:40 PM
I have a skills certificate and I have been granted unconditional stay in another caricom jurisdiction. It doesn’t restrict me in any way.
Perhaps they intend to place restrictions on domestic workers.
I don’t think the categories of workers who enjoy free movement now are restricted to their respective fields. The local legislation will give me more answers than the treaty as it relates to what exists now.
The treaty represents what the Member states have agreed to do. The legislation reflects what has already been done.
For example the member states have agreed to enact legislation that would allow for CARICOM skilled nationals to be able to travel without passports but I don’t think any member state has done this yet.
lholder // July 5, 2009 at 5:41 PM
Anonjam,
‘Article 46, Clause 3 of the Revised Treaty of Chaguaramas: Movement of Skilled Community Nationals’ states the following:
“Nothing in this Treaty shall be construed as inhibiting Member States from according Community nationals unrestricted access to, and movement within, their jurisdictions subject to such conditions as the public interest may require.”
Interpretation of the article says that even though you have a skills certificate, the host country can still impose conditions that are in the public interest of the host country.
Now, consider the following scenario. In 2010, Barbados approves skill certificates for 1,000 domestic workers from other CARICOM countries. In 2011 the 1,000 domestic workers migrate to higher paying non-domestic jobs at the expense of Barbadians. Thus, there is the need to recruit 1,000 new domestic workers. In 2012, those new domestic workers migrate to higher paying non-domestic jobs once again at the expense of Barbadians, and thus there is the need to recruit once again 1,000 new domestic workers.
In such circumstances, I am convinced that Article 46, Clause 3 would allow the host country to impose conditions on the rights of the domestic workers to change jobs at will. That would be the case since it would be in the public interest of the host country to ensure that its citizens are first considered for some given range of jobs.
Anonjam // July 5, 2009 at 5:50 PM
Unfortunately I can not get my hands on the Caribbean Community (Movement of Skilled Nationals) Act of Barbados.
However I have checked the equivalent acts in other jurisdictions (which are supposed to have identical provisions).
In those jurisdictions a skilled National is not restricted to a particular occupation. That is to say, a doctor with a skills certificate is not restricted to working as a doctor etc.
I am 97% sure that this is the same in Barbados but I haven’t been able to get my hand on the relevant legislation to confirm.
Will this be the same for domestic workers? I suspect that it may be. If domestic workers are just being added to the list of persons who constitute skilled workers then they most likely won’t be restricted unless the legislation enacted specifically places a restriction on them.
In addition, the spouse of a skilled national is also enjoys freedom of movement.
Anonjam // July 5, 2009 at 5:58 PM
Interpretation of the article says that even though you have a skills certificate, the host country can still impose conditions that are in the public interest of the host country.
————————–
I know what the treaty says. However, I am more concerned about what the local legislation says.
The treaty is pretty much just an agreement entered into by the member states. This particular treaty says that a host country can still impose conditions that are in the public interest of the host country.
The question is this: Has Barbados enacted any legislation that has imposed conditions?
I am pretty sure the relevant legislation has not restricted skilled Nationals but I can’t confirm because I am having difficulty getting my hand on the relevant legislation.
lholder // July 5, 2009 at 6:10 PM
Anonjam,
You are probably right regarding the overall legislative aspect. Note, however, that you do not need specific legislation to impose conditions on certain categories of individuals with skills certificates.
The general legal approach is to enact the overall relevant legislation with provisions that the State can take the necessary administrative procedures or impose restrictions in pursuance of ’specific’ objectives.
Anonjam // July 5, 2009 at 6:14 PM
Well Mr. Holder, We will see what will happen with this free movement of domestic workers development.
The truth is. I would be very surprised if David Thompson follows though on this commitment. It is too unpopular in Barbados.
J // July 5, 2009 at 7:59 PM
Horrified wrote at 12:20 p.m. Sunday “The “master” of the household will waste no time in getting them pregnant”
Are you telling me that Bajan men cannot keep their doggies in their pants?
And if that is so whose fault is it?
Surely you can’t blame the Guyanese for this weakness.
J // July 5, 2009 at 8:03 PM
Dear 199
They got some foolish laws ’bout here that say a person can only have one spouse at a time.
I do not agree with that law, but until such time as it is changed I have as a matter of principle to obey it and so I have to keep the one spouse that I have and I cannot legally take on another.
But we live in changing time.
So maybe you and me can lobby for a person to have as many spouses as they like.
After all why is it anybody’s business if I choose to have 3 husbands and/or 6 wives.
199 // July 6, 2009 at 3:02 AM
You’re an adventurous-girl, are n’t u, J!!
lol!!
We live in hope!! :)
199 // July 6, 2009 at 3:03 AM
U going to join one of the Councils?!!
Veritas // July 6, 2009 at 5:04 PM
To you again if it is no big thing,then why did Antigua and Belize ask for a deferral because of the strain it will cause to their social infra-structure?
**********
Antigua and Barbuda and Belize deferred on accepting any more immigrants period. Regrettably Barbados cannot do that because we do need some immigrant labour.
Lawd it BIG !! // July 6, 2009 at 10:53 PM
It is true, but too damn late. It seems our good ole Thompy has sold us out too, it seems we just have no one to vote in anyone that we can trust.
This article….what can I say….it is completely factual in its warnings and should be seriously considered.
We are talking about social cohesion here which needs to be of great priority in a 166 sq. mile island and already we are seeing the cracks running up the proverbial walls of a build called “Barbados,” about to collapse.
Hopefully though, as Anonjam suggests: “The truth is. I would be very surprised if David Thompson follows though on this commitment. It is too unpopular in Barbados.”
BIM !
100% Guyanese // July 7, 2009 at 12:00 PM
Not only is Guyana exporting its citizens, thanks to a failed state , corruption, narco trafficking ,death squads and political mismanagement, they are also exporting racism to Barbados . This is the central thrust of the Guyana government and Barbadians do not need that kind of behaviour. These people are also prepared to bribe their way and corrupt any and every official to get what they want. So Bajans be aware and stand firm for the enforcement of your laws. lawlessness is the order in Guyana and there is no limit. Janet Jagan wife of the late Cheddie Jagan threw a writ from the highest court of the land over her shoulder to ignore an order to stop her swearing in as President. The attorney general wispered in her ear ” that was good” the court marshal present the writ was his staff. this too k place in front of members of the diplomaic corp and the international press. Those who are now fleeing to Barbados are the same ones who prop up the Jagdeo dictatorship by racial voting yet they want to now run out of the country and live in Barbados with people who they do not inherently like and see as beneath them racially. How paradoxical. They will eventually be fighting Barbadians for their space in every facet of societ and they will scream “victim” when they do not get their way. These are the same people who are hounding Dr Kean Gibson an Afro Guyanese for pointing out negative aspect about the hindu religion which relegate the black skins ( dhalits) to untouchables and marginalise them in the same way they are marginalising blacks at home. They try to stiffle academic freedom and freedom of expression in Guyana. Barbadians need to stop them least their country become just like Guyana.
GT support // July 7, 2009 at 12:03 PM
Well the Guyanese who are bad mouthing Barbados do not care. Every thing in Guyana is collapsing and they are seeking to get out before they collapse with it. It is a pity though that they are willing to break the law of soverign state, and then presumptiously “cuss out” and malign the same place they want to remain in. This behaviour seem to be ingrained in them with their struggle for racial dominance. Even the Knighted one Sir Shridath Ramphal dare to be enjoying Bajan hospitality yet accusing Bajans of “ethnic cleansing” . Why he don’t move back to his country to enjoy life where his race group is dominant and he too will not have to fear being cleansed. Barbados need to ask him to leave.
GT TOO and concerned // July 7, 2009 at 12:12 PM
The wave of Indian Guyanese invading Barbados have no historical roots in Barbados. They are running from the leader and government that they put in power and refuse to hold accountable. They disrespect black people and this is ingrained in their religion. Why the dickens they want to leave their country where their race run rough shod over black people to go and live in another country whe re blackpeople are in charge of. See how they want their won burial ground, they will dominate Barbados with Indian music and films and Indian cinemas. Most of them will put out their children who dare to mix or marry black people. They will even disown them and not acknowledge their black grandchildren.
Johnathan // July 7, 2009 at 12:14 PM
BajanS beware !!!! Jagdeo made Caricom passed a new skilled category call Household Workers so that the illegals can regularise their status.
Hold Thompson feet to the fire. Let him sort out the current immigration mess before he add this new category.
Keep the racism out of BIM. Those Indians are coming to Barbados bringing the racial politics and think they better than you, Africans. Watch out. Let Jagdeo take care of his people he cannot let them vote for him and run to BIM to take care of them.
Let the illegals to back to Guyana NOW!!!!
J // July 7, 2009 at 12:28 PM
Oh lawd! You Guyanese people bad. how you can talk about the righteous , pious and innocent Guyanese Indians so. They are above all evil, as evil only belongs to black people. You think they will do the same to Barbados black s as they do to Guyanese blacks ? Will they undermine Barbados as they did Burnham?
Barbadosbelle // July 7, 2009 at 12:31 PM
I’m afraid that Barbados is going to end up with the same situation we have in the UK because of joining the EU (which none of us wanted, and a promised referendum didn’t happen – more lies from our terrible amoral Government). We have people coming here – mostly from Eastern Europe, Somalia and Afghanistan – who do not want to work, whose basic integrity and value of human life is entirely different to our own (and yours), who cheat and steal and murder and want everything on their own terms. Why they came here is totally baffling as they state that they find everything about the UK and its indigenous population beyond comtempt. The Muslims immigrants (legal and illesgal) are even worse – being allowed to hold their own Sharia Courts and to build mosques (I wonder what would happen if the Pope wanted to build Catholic Cathedrals in their countries?!).
BARBADOS IS A WONDERFUL ISLAND and we love visiting it and hope to spend more time there in the future when we have retired. In the meantime YOU MUST DO EVERYTHING POSSIBLE TO STOP YOUR GOVERNMENT passing Laws that will turn Barbados into something it isn’t and doesn’t want to be. We still hope that the UK will break with the EU but it doesn’t seem likely to happen. In the meantime crime rates are up and people living in cities are scared to go out after dusk (and sometimes even in daylight).
DON’T LET IT HAPPEN TO YOU – Learn from what has happened here and don’t be polite and complacent like us silly Brits!
Mcdonald // July 7, 2009 at 12:37 PM
Bajans done see where these Indians coming from and their agenda to advance Indian expansionism to the Caribbean. Not in Barbados. We will not allow these Guyanese to create further disharmony in our country. If Thompson don’t act tough then the masses of Bajans capable of acting tough.
TR // July 7, 2009 at 12:48 PM
Bajans,
Most Guyanese of African ancestry have roots in Barbados from an era when the migration trends were reversed and Barbadians came to Guyana. We love Barbados and are proud of your fight to contain the Indian scourge of racism that is raising its ugly head in Barbados. Guyana is lost with racism . The Indians will not work with the Africans and do not feel Africans should ever rule any Indian. So it is only a matter of time before they begin to agitate even more against Barbadians. Let African pride and dignity remain intact in Barbados which is among the most prosperous nations of the world. GO BAJANS.
Ancestral links to BIM // July 7, 2009 at 1:07 PM
I believe this whole scenario encouraged by the President of Guyana and the Indians is to give Guyana an opportunity to get out of Caricom.
livinginbarbados // July 7, 2009 at 1:07 PM
@ Barbadosbelle // July 7, 2009 at 12:31 pm
(I wonder what would happen if the Pope wanted to build Catholic Cathedrals in their countries?!).
Having lived several years recently in an officially majority (90+%) Muslim country, I can point you to Catholic Cathedrals as well as a Anglican ones, (and churches catering to the wide and bizarre range of Christians that live in the country, and are very small minorities).
BTW, the country concerned, Guinea, is also a country whose main manufacturing enterprise is beer making.
I am a Christian but know that Islam is broad in its application, in a way not very different from the wide range of Christian denominations.
Be careful how broadly you paint with the brush.
199 // July 7, 2009 at 2:44 PM
Barbadosbelle, don’t wast ur time talking to those people. I’ve been warning them for years about our situ in Britain but all they tell me is nonsense. Darling, enjoy our little island as much as u can before the Indians take it over and make us slaves in our own country as they dominate the UK. They think they know it all already so leave them to their own fate!!
LIB, we’re also not interested in your opinion, OR, Islam!!
livinginbarbados // July 7, 2009 at 2:54 PM
@199
Last time I looked, I dont recall seeing a box saying Vote for 199 as Candidate for Supreme Ruler or the Universe, so less of the “We”. The Queen, who is both your monarch and mine has that privilege reserved for her.
I suggest you watch a few episodes of The Prisoner, still good viewing, and remember McGoohan’s line, in response to the command “You must conform!” He says, “I am not a number, I am a free man.” I guess in the negative, the meaning is equally clear.
The Scout // July 7, 2009 at 4:34 PM
To the whole BU family
This is an adaptation of a speech sent to me.
To all persons who are want to live in my country, Barbados
All of you who want to live in Barbados but don’t want to live under the Barbadians laws should GET OUT
You are immigratants, not Barbadians, you must adapt. Take it or leave it. I’m tired of this nation worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture.
This culture has been developed over centuries of struggles, trials, hard work and victories by our ancestors who fought for our freedom.
We speak mainly English, not Spanish, Chinese,nor any other language
therefore if you want to live in my country, learn the language.
Most Bajans believe in God. This is no Christian, or political push, it is a fact.
This nation was founded on Christian principles and that is clearly documented.
This is clearly displayed on the walls of our buildings.
If God offends you, I suggest you consider some other part of the world to live, because God is part of our culture.
We will accept your beliefs and would not question why, all we do is ask you to accept our and live in harmony and peaceful enjoyment with us
This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, OUR LIFESTYLE, and we allow you the opportunity to enjoy all this
But once you are not complaining about OUR FLAG, OUR PLEDGE, Our CHRISTIAN BELIEFS, OUR WAY OF LIFE. I highly encourage you to take advantage of one other great bajan freedom THE RIGHT TO LEAVE.
If you aren’t happy here, then LEAVE, we didn’t force you to come here. You asked to be here
So accept the country you accepted.
Welcome to those who qualify under these terms.
J // July 7, 2009 at 5:15 PM
Some other J wrote on July 7 “J // July 7, 2009 at 12:28 pm
Oh lawd! You Guyanese people bad. how you can talk about the righteous , pious and innocent Guyanese Indians so. They are above all evil, as evil only belongs to black people. You think they will do the same to Barbados black s as they do to Guyanese blacks ? Will they undermine Barbados as they did Burnham?”
Dear David:
I am J but I did NOT write the statement above.
I do NOT share those views.
Everybody who reads this blog regularly will recognize that those are NOT my views.
Somebody else is using my handle.
Please stop them from doing so.
ABCDEFG // July 7, 2009 at 7:06 PM
J the first or second. How silly can you get. Are you the only J in the land? Obviously not. Get a grip and focus instead on what these Indians are doing to Bajans. They eyes pass us big time and their President also supportive of the eye pass.
J // July 7, 2009 at 9:52 PM
Dear ABCDEFG:
It is deceitful t post under somebody’s else’s handle and you know it.
What are they Indians doing to Bajans?
I do not and have never lived in a world where somebody’s eye pass/cut eye bother me one way or another.
I know that I am capable of competing with anybody, anywhere in the world. In their country or in mine.
I fear no one.
And I certainly do not fear anybody’s “eye passes”
J // July 7, 2009 at 9:54 PM
Dear ABCDEFG:
Since you are obviously Guynese (who else uses the term eye pass) Mr. Jagdeo is YOUR PRESIDENT ALSO.
ABCDEFG // July 7, 2009 at 10:34 PM
J the first or second. I repeat you are silly to think that the letter J belongs only to you and even more silly to ask that in a public blog no one else uses it. did you get the copy right for the use of the letter J. Come oe admit that you are overboard.
ABCDEFG // July 7, 2009 at 10:39 PM
J the first or second. The use of the term eye pass like cut eye is figurative language.
It is actually referring to a particular action by the Guyanese. Those who can claim that Bajans are practicing “ethnic cleansing” and “racial profiling” those who can be illegally in Barbados then dare to speak disrespect Bajan laws.
ABCDEFG // July 7, 2009 at 10:49 PM
J the first or second. If I am Guyanese then you be enlightened that some of us have a conscience and can take a principled position. So much for thef generalizations therefore about Guyanese
Further being exposed to caribbean culture it is called acculturation when you can and do adopt the various cultures from each group of people wuth whom you interact.
But then again I do not need to prove a point to you,.
Anonymous // July 7, 2009 at 11:26 PM
ABCDEFG
seen that you have learnt the first seven letters of the English alphabet, I encourage you to try learning the other nineteen. Once that is achieved, the acquisition of the rudiments of coherent and intelligible expression may then be possible. Until such time, you are advised to severely limit your attempts at posting on any blog.
199 // July 8, 2009 at 1:42 AM
Anonymous // July 7, 2009 at 11:26 pm
ABCDEFG
seen that you have learnt the first seven letters of the English alphabet, I encourage you to try learning the other nineteen. Once that is achieved, the acquisition of the rudiments of coherent and intelligible expression may then be possible. Until such time, you are advised to severely limit your attempts at posting on any blog.
******************
or, ‘ABCDEFG’, in other words, you’re an idiot!! and now, **** off!! Get it?!!
J // July 8, 2009 at 11:35 AM
Dear 199:
Thanks.
The original authentic J.
J // July 8, 2009 at 11:40 AM
Dear ABCDEFG:
No Bajan says eye pass ok.
It ain’t in the Bajan language.
I am a Bajan language expert as is 199.
And if you can acculturate don’t you think that it is possible that the “Indians” can acculturate too?
The “Indians” are neither subhuman nor superhuman.
They are just ordinary human beings.
But I don’t waste time talking to idiots, so I gone.
ABCDEFG // July 8, 2009 at 1:13 PM
199, J, Anonymous,
I will not pronounce on who knows alphabeth , numbers or their name, that is so trivial.
I am surprised that you three bajans (?) or musketeers are seriously questioning nationality based on two words used to present a perspective . Maybe I am a victim like you of the many Guyanese with whom I associate. The very obscene language suggest to me that at least one of you is an associate of the slum yard where the use of expletives come so readily to one’s mouth. Burn!!
ABCDEFG // July 8, 2009 at 1:57 PM
199, J, Anonymous,
Would it please you to know that I am Bajan born but not raised? I am the product of two Guyanese born parents who were students at Cavehill campus. After birth , I was sent to live in Guyana with my Bajan grand father and my Guyanese grand mother who raised me . My parents had sought greener pastures in the UK but not before holding prominent jobs in Barbados.
ABCDEFG // July 8, 2009 at 1:58 PM
I visited my birth country as a child to spend time with my parents and siblings during the school holidays and to see my great grand parents . My parents had decided not to take me from my grand parents in Guyana.
I only actually lived in Barbados between the ages of 21 and 23 when I took up residence and employment after graduating from the University of Guyana. At 23 years I left the land of my birth for UK and graduate studies.
ABCDEFG // July 8, 2009 at 2:00 PM
Call me GuyBajan and even British now that I have revealed me to you. But lets keep it real. The issue we should be venting on is not a name, a nationality nor an entitlement to speak in a public forum on the www. It is the breaking of laws and the maligning of Barbados by people who would not easily integrate.
In case you forget what give rise to these blogs just revisit the story “The Fear Of The Growing Ethnic Factor, Real or Imagined?” It is stated “While we must be a tolerant society, Bajans must understand that Hindu immigrants, with their high fertility rates, and their dislike of miscegenation with the Negro, have already destroyed the social cohesion of two Caribbean territories–Guyana and Trinidad. Now they are invading Barbados.”
ABCDEFG // July 8, 2009 at 2:04 PM
Call me GuyBajan and even British now that I have revealed me to you. But lets keep it real. The issue we should be venting on is not a name, a nationality nor an entitlement to speak in a public forum on the www. It is the breaking of laws and the maligning of Barbados by people who would not easily integrate.
ABCDEFG // July 8, 2009 at 2:04 PM
In case you forget what give rise to these blogs just revisit the story “The Fear Of The Growing Ethnic Factor, Real or Imagined?” It is stated “While we must be a tolerant society, Bajans must understand that Hindu immigrants, with their high fertility rates, and their dislike of miscegenation with the Negro, have already destroyed the social cohesion of two Caribbean territories–Guyana and Trinidad. Now they are invading Barbados.”
199 // July 8, 2009 at 3:28 PM
My pleasure, J!!
ABC, (and for a graduate, or anybody, what a silly handle!!) my castigation of u is as a consequence of not understanding the need for people to use different pseudonymns! I could n’t care less about the ‘cut eye’ jibe!! I’m surprised that u also, did n’t understand that!! R u sure ur a graduate!! also, don’t insult my friend ‘J’, I like her, and if u do ur likely to invite another cut-ass from me!! Meanwhile, change the silly handle and then, welcome to the blog!!
As for the Indians, Bajans, be very careful the number u allow in and, keep a close eye on them!!
mash up & buy back // July 8, 2009 at 4:39 PM
Abcdefg
You are new to this site,so I will give you some friendly advice.
Ignore those 2 and continue to address the subject matter at hand.
By the way,why haven’t afo guyanese taken a more united and pulic stand against this racist indo jagdeo administration.
What about that Sam Hinds – isn’t he a real ‘house nigger’.
199 // July 8, 2009 at 4:52 PM
mash up & buy back
**********
With a handle like that, it’s no wonder ur taking his side!! Why!! Was your brain absent, too, when u chose your name?!! or, perhaps, you’ve NEVER been to school!! At least ‘abc’ CLAIMS to have had an education?!! Did U ever see the front door of a school, or did u simply turn back?!!
Anonymous // July 8, 2009 at 7:33 PM
ABCDEFG
until you posted, I had a very favourable impression of graduates of the University of Guyana. Please desist from further undermining the high reputation of UG.
ABCDEFG // July 8, 2009 at 11:10 PM
Anonymous,
. What a pity all you can do is engage in silly banter and insults. Maybe your friends have not noticed that, like them ,you also have a pseudonym, How more silly can we get. maybe it is this same sort of silly behaviour that cause the immigration in the first place. Take note how the Guyana President was able to immediately have Bajan ratification of domestics as the new skill category. What happens now is left to be seen.
ABCDEFG // July 8, 2009 at 11:17 PM
199,
Your comments amuse me. You could not be for real. One would have thought that with pseudonyms like yours that the least thing you would be commenting on would be a person’s choice of id. Moreso when there are so many more important points that you can engage,. Your behaviour is pathetic.
ABCDEFG // July 8, 2009 at 11:25 PM
Further, I do not need your welcome nor acceptance. As Bob Marley said ” when meh throw meh carn, meh nah call no fowl”
ABCDEFG // July 8, 2009 at 11:26 PM
I maintain this is an open space that you , like me choose to share around the same time. You can ignore my comments and I can ignore yours if I so choose. Any sanctioning is left for the moderator and not you or any of the other musketeers.
ABCDEFG // July 8, 2009 at 11:32 PM
I am definitely not looking for conversation with any of you. I blog, you read shut up or plain and simple… do not read. ( ha! as though you would be able to do the latter) . In case you are unaware the way the communication goes….someone will read…that is the purpose…. not idle discourse with you musketeers
ABCDEFG // July 8, 2009 at 11:39 PM
Thank God you three are not the typical representation of Bajans. I would have been ashamed .
ABCDEFG // July 8, 2009 at 11:50 PM
mash up & buy back ,
Interesting that you should ask what the African Guyanese are doing about the racist Indian government. It seems that the Guyana government is able to keep the masses of poor Indians who support them and Africans divided by frequent fear and violent stimuli. The people are so stupid that race dictates everything , even when they ar e hungry/ The article which initiates this blog captures the nature of the Jagdeo supporters who fear and ordinarily loathe the African
ABCDEFG // July 8, 2009 at 11:53 PM
Until the Indians and Africans in Guyana can see that there is an interdependency of the races, Guyanese will continue to have strife and flee. Jagdeo need some bad a@# Jammy people to warm them up
Jay // July 8, 2009 at 11:55 PM
@ ABCDEFG
Question,Do you intend on staying in Guyana when you finish with your courses ?
J // July 9, 2009 at 1:53 AM
ABCDEFG // July 8, 2009 at 1:13 pm…
199, J, Anonymous…Maybe I am a victim like you…”
You may be a victim (or maybe not), but I am definitely NOT a victim.
199 // July 9, 2009 at 1:58 AM
ABC, I’ve read your posts carefully, and, up to now, I still don’t know what the **** ur talking about! R u certain ur a graduate?!! Anyway, caan bodda anymore!! Good luck wid it!!
Anonymous // July 9, 2009 at 6:35 AM
ABCDEFG
unless YOU are representative of ALL Guyanese of African descent (or Guyanese of any descent) I would not agree that “the people are so stupid” (your words). It is evident by the fact of your relocation to the UK that you cannot be part of any solution to the problems of Guyana. You can only peddle a simple minded, hypocritical and blind racism to Barbadians which got Guyana in the mess it now finds itself.
ABCDEFG // July 9, 2009 at 8:52 AM
Guys, and gals
1) Were you earlier speaking as representatives of all Bajans? Don’t ask stupid questions.
2) “Call a rose by any name it still smells as sweet” racism used to violate the rights of another , for marginalization, oppression and recrimination is not only backward it is stupid and dumb. It is what Barbados needs to address , one way or another as they have a few thousands of the population ( migrant or else) who are screaming ” race” and “ethnic cleansing” The latter I do not accept
ABCDEFG // July 9, 2009 at 9:08 AM
Racism is counterproductive to development and peace. Race and ethnicity has been the root of the Nazi Holocast , the ethnic cleansing in Rwanda , Bosnia etc. That Indians in Barbados can scream ” ethnic cleansing” and racial profiling” should be taken seriously.
ABCDEFG // July 9, 2009 at 9:11 AM
After accusations and media campaigns what next? None other than a British Knight has accused Barbadian authorities of ethnic cleansing. This is not the ordinary man in the street. This is a gentleman with connections.
Johnathan // July 9, 2009 at 9:12 AM
What is the brouhaha over the name J. Even if another use the name J couldn’t the original J handle this issue differently.
You guys over-reacting and all. If the 7 letter of the alpha means something insulting as said by 199 by the same extension J can mean jackass-would J like that. Stop the name calling!
The second J was not fighting you guys. Go back and read the post. This person supporting PM Thompson’s position and sharing knowledge with us.
Guys don’t make your friends your enemies. Relax!!
mash up & buy back // July 9, 2009 at 9:17 AM
But Jonathan,
J is totally against thompson’s position and that is why the guyanese blogger’s information on the indo guyanese racist attitude to persons of african descent is railed against by this J aka kim young.
A close check might reveal some indo guyanese blood there who knows?
ABCDEFG // July 9, 2009 at 9:23 AM
So it is unfortunate when you guys choose to suggest that I want to introduce racism ( of the kind present in Guyana) to Barbados. I am of mixed heritage but proudly identified as African, I know and have experienced many forms of racism in Guyana , Barbados and the UK. It is a subtle part of many cultures, However when we see people starting to scream aloud that they are discriminated based on race then the world will start looking and tre or not it does nothing good for Barbados which you guys as the “true , real macaw, 100% Bajan to the bone, should care about and using as a target for your unnecessary use of profanity,
ABCDEFG // July 9, 2009 at 9:36 AM
Further and with regards to where I settle that is an option that I cherish. I consider myself very settled right now but should I decide to uproot my family I thank God for marketable skills within my family that would not make that a major challenge, as we would be an asset in any country. Whether it is the USA, UK, Europe, or any Caribbean or Caricom country , the options are many and will be exercised within the frame work of the law.
Tom // July 9, 2009 at 9:42 AM
The ethnic factor fear is real and Barbadian should start looking at the matter closer. It is this fear preventing Guyana from developing and causing problems.
It is true many Indians dislike Africans and under the Indian lead Jagdeo govt Africans have been denied jobs, their pension plan break up by Jagdeo, over 400 young black men were killed by a death squad supported by Jagdeo and USA # 1 drug lord Roger Khan, they have taken away African lands. No Indians have come out in condemnation of the govt actions to Africans.
Tom // July 9, 2009 at 9:47 AM
Indians only align themselves with Africans when it suit their purpose. The way Africans will take a side with any group, even against their own, on wrong doings not so with Inidans. If they own hurt you they will stay silent.
During the PNC, Indians came together with Africans to fight the PNC wrongdoings. When the PPP won and start doing wrongs and Africans complained and protested, Indians said it is they time now. Africans then realised Indians only wanted their support to get the rid of an African government, that in fact Indians were not interested in right and wrong, but only on being in charge and having a govt of their own.
Tom // July 9, 2009 at 9:54 AM
Once a wrong is done by an Indian it is right. Law and orde rare only good when it suit the Inidan interest. This is why you see Jagdeo, Ramphal, Rickey Singh and Norman Faria so upset with PM Thompson. They know that many Indians will be sent home because they are in Bim illegally. They prefer Thompson break Bim law.
Sam Hinds is a house slave. He knows of the suffering, deaths and denied jobs to Africans but he will remain silent. The fact is a man of his intelligence will never have been PM in Guyana .
Tom // July 9, 2009 at 10:00 AM
So Bim you have a very good case. I’d suggest you stand and fight it from a position of enforcing Barbados’ law and demanding that the island has a planned migration.
If you don’t the problems of Guyana will become yours. And in your own island you will soon become a stranger because you will be bullied, insulted and called names by Jagdeo, Ramphal etc. Stand firm and see to it that Thompson does not deviate from his Immigration policy.
Tom // July 9, 2009 at 10:01 AM
What are your feelings on the new skilled category, Domestic Worker, that Caricom added?
In Guyana people feel Jagdeo trick Thomspon and Indians will start flooding to the island come January 201o. The illegalls will now become legals and one house will have at least 5 household help.
ABCDEFG // July 9, 2009 at 10:08 AM
Sorry, I am now cathcing up on a few blogs.
I am not sure which of Thompson’s positions J 1st. does not support. Is it 1) the right to enact migration policies and laws to stem the overflow of illegal immigration? or 2) The agreed extension of the skills category to include domestics?
Whatever the issue, subsequent arguments and display of the three musketeers left much to be desired The profanity also signaled a level of the “ordinary” not necessary for serious discourse
Greenidge // July 9, 2009 at 10:20 AM
Bloggers share your feelings on the new skilled category, Domestic Worker, that Caricom added?
I talked with some Guyanese over the last two days and they feel President Jagdeo trick Prime Minister Thomspon. They say a domestic worker only need a health certificate and ability to lift a few pounds, they do not need CXC or univeristy qualifications. In effect EVERYBODY and ANYBODY can be a household worker. Indians will start flooding to the island come January 201o.
The illegalls can become legals and one house will have at least 5 household help. These 5 household help will bring their families and watch the multiplier effect. This is serious issue.Barbados in big big big trouble!!!!!
BU should have someone in authority to do a story on this new skilled category.
ABCDEFG // July 9, 2009 at 10:20 AM
Hi tom
The introduction of the Domestic class is rather untimely and may be perceived as a trick on Thompson to circumvent the removal of illegal Indian Guyanese from Barbados. the good thing is that Thompson does not have to implement this for Barbados , It is his call as thier is an allowance of a grace period of 5 years….I think.
So Jagdeo may not be so smart after all and Bajans can still stop the overtaking of Barbados by Indians
Tom // July 9, 2009 at 10:33 AM
ABCDEFG,
It can be done. Chapter 3 of the Revised Treaty allowed if to be deferred. If Barbados wanted it could have said that the island is not ready for the new skilled category and ask for deferrment.
Johnathan // July 9, 2009 at 10:43 AM
This householder category will create lots of problems. Even the prostitute can be household help. J, 199 and Anonymous, and mash up & bruck up what are we going do about it. You think Thompson bow to Jagdeo?
Greenidge and Tom put some writings worth serious thought.
David // July 9, 2009 at 12:48 PM
Please go easy on the multiple usernames. Next time we will call names.
199 // July 9, 2009 at 1:07 PM
Am I, by inference, to assume there are n’t already sufficient skilled BARBADIAN domestic workers already living in Barbados and we need to import them?!! This I find, difficult to believe, to say the least!! Just how much skill do u require to be a domestic worker?!! It seems that Thompy may be a soft-touch to agree to such a concession!! IS Thompy a soft-touch and, if so, is he the kind of PM we wish to return to office in 5 years time?!! I can’t be certain because, as u know, I don’t live there but, he’s certainly giving me that impression from afar!!
ABCDEFG // July 9, 2009 at 3:39 PM
I guess many will have different reasons for being disgruntled with Thompson. I am a bit dissappointd about the domestic work category at a time when their is a global recession and Barbados is grappling with the issues of overabundance of migration. However I can appreciate the difficulties he had at the Heads meeting…it could not have been easy for him with all the pressure from some heads and a generally unfriendly Guyanese populace
ABCDEFG // July 9, 2009 at 3:46 PM
Strategically I think the Indians who are having the current migration problem causing Bajans a headache were able to initially latch onto the old migration issues that involved Africans. As such many Guyanese saw all the claims of harassment and violations within a context that was well known and publicised… only worse. No wonder it was easy for certain African Guyanese to get caught up in the reckless condemnation without looking at the illegality of those who were in Barbados and the good gesture extended by Thompson to offer amnesty.
David // July 9, 2009 at 3:56 PM
What can Barbados learn from the Jamaican experience in so far as ethnic absorption is concerned? As we all know Jamaica is the melting pot of the Caribbean. Is there a period in Jamaica’s history we can point to which addresses how ‘absorption’ was received and managed?
ABCDEFG // July 9, 2009 at 3:57 PM
It appears that the only Guyanese who were saying anything different were the Trade Unionists independent of the the PPP. The Guyanese media (Stabroek News) was having a field day sensationalizing the plight of Indian victims in Barbados and wipping up anti Thompson / Bajan support . One cannot ignore the voices of very prominent Caribbean and Guyanese personalities condemning what was happening. This was the context that Thompson had to face before a packed auditorium of unfriendly people
It would have been
David // July 9, 2009 at 4:01 PM
Any comments on the recent visit by Prime Minister David Thompson to pay a courtesy call on CDB President Compton Bourne yesterday?
ABCDEFG // July 9, 2009 at 4:05 PM
The Trades Union protest and public statements seemed to have been the catalyst. From all observation there is a different and more supportive Bajan position centering on the rule of law and Guyana’s downward spiral as a factor for Guyanese migration. There is even call for revisiting the Herdmanston Accord signed in 1998 .
David // July 9, 2009 at 4:11 PM
This matter is not only about law but the need to address attitudes.
ABCDEFG // July 9, 2009 at 4:13 PM
It is unfortunate that every issue in Guyana is seen through the prism of race. The current migration issue is fast becoming a racial issue as many voices now raised to support Barbados are those of Africans who are also claiming that the migration problems were never an issue until Indians were affected. That is the Guyana dynamic for you.
ABCDEFG // July 9, 2009 at 4:21 PM
Hi David,
I agree with you that the matter is certainly not only about Law. It is also not only about Guyana’s socio economic and political situation. It includes the attitudes of all of those involved,Regionalization globalization, survival through economic blocs etc.
My point was to focus on the nature of the arguments now observed to be supportive of Barbados. Those to my mind seem to be invoking respect for Bajan laws and the Guyana situation. It is a good starting point for change.
Negroman // July 9, 2009 at 4:26 PM
I really do not think Bharat Jagdeo tricked David Thompson.Bharat Jagdeo is not that intelligent to fool David Thompson.
Barbados signed the new agreement as a result of our lead role in the CSME programme.We must remember that Barbados has lead responsibility for the implementation of all CSME initiatives.It would have set a bad precedent if Barbados had not signed on to the new categories.I believe however that Thompson is not to keen and the free flow of nannies & maids into Barbados will not materialized I suspect that at next CARICOM meeting next year or the intersessinal meetings that complaints will be heard about countries not honoring their commitments.
.
199 // July 9, 2009 at 4:27 PM
Hey, I just taught of someting!! Maybe, jus maybe, the Barbadians are now TOO GREAT, dese days, to be domestics!! just as they’re TOO GREAT to still work in agriculture!! This could account for why we now need to import domestic servants!! I can’t believe my people r jus, lazy?!! Maybe, Thompy know wha he doing, afterall?!!
ABCDEFG // July 9, 2009 at 4:29 PM
David I missed reading any report at this time about Thompson;s visit to Bourne. That should yield some interesting results as Bourne was certainly out of order. He has violated his hospitality and the post he holds as a regional public servant.
My opinion… He should be held accountable and even asked to vacate his office. Got to go now. But thanks for the stimuli. Hope to read the comments of others on these matters.
mash up & buy back // July 9, 2009 at 4:31 PM
David
Did you hear that ricky singh article that tony marshall read today on Brasstacks?
Now the indo guyanese collaborators are going further to not only talk about the barbados immigration policy as ‘ethnic cleasing’ now according to that article – there is an apartheid like system going on in Barbados,and he is happy not to be here now.
I can’t seem to find that article since it is not the last one that is there now in the Trinidad Express.
ABCD…
Can you get a better handle,it is tiresome having to spell out the alphabet.
I agree with you about the nasty,sisnister plan by Starbroek news to whip up an anti-bajan sentiment.
However right here in Barbados we have roxanne gibbs,a guyanese who fled to barbados and has enjoyed the hospitality and all we had to offer – yet she has set out to create a contentious enviroment prior to thompson going down to Guyana with those most inflamatory,dishonest articles about raids by immigration officers -breaking down doors with crowbar,pulling off aa woman with faeces dropping out etc.
SICK,SICK,SICK!
She is an afro guyanese (an ugly one at that) yet she has never done a series of article -using her position as Managing Editor – to speak of the degrading plight of her fellow afro guyanese nor the problem of racism between africans and indians in guyana which could be transported here.
WE DON’T WANT NONE OF THESE DAMN INDIANS HERE NOR THEIR NASTY RACIST PRACTICES.
199 // July 9, 2009 at 5:11 PM
ABCD…
Can you get a better handle,it is tiresome having to spell out the alphabet.
***************
Hopi, he’s Guyanese and thus, u can’t presume he has a brain!!
David // July 9, 2009 at 5:15 PM
Dennis Johnson just played 2009 and asked Mac to explain.
Sargeant // July 9, 2009 at 5:39 PM
I just came across an article written in 2000 by a Guyanese of Indian descent in which he examines the conflicts between Blacks and East Indians in Guyana and Trinidad & Tobago.
Everyone is free to read and form their own conclusion.
http://www.guyana.org/features/conflicts_indiansandblacks.html
Anonymous // July 9, 2009 at 6:08 PM
David
Wasn’t Mac’s explanation to that calypso titled ‘2009′ – something?
Such foresight,I tell you.
David // July 9, 2009 at 6:17 PM
Indeed it was!
White people know business but don’t breed
Black people breed but don’t know business
Indians know business and breed well
The end result if Black Barbadians are not careful they will be left behind!
livinginbarbados // July 9, 2009 at 7:32 PM
@David
“White people know business but don’t breed
Black people breed but don’t know business
Indians know business and breed well”
[Need to check some history, I suggest, and look at population growth and business cycles...Remember when Malthus wrote...And the Chinese?
Food for thought. When Black people breed with 'White' and 'Indian' what happens? The lines seem to suggest that if Black people want to move on in 'business' they better start cross-breeding.]
Ruel Daniels // July 9, 2009 at 7:33 PM
Tom // July 9, 2009 at 9:47 am
Indians only align themselves with Africans when it suit their purpose. The way Africans will take a side with any group, even against their own, on wrong doings not so with Inidans. If they own hurt you they will stay silent.
During the PNC, Indians came together with Africans to fight the PNC wrongdoings. When the PPP won and start doing wrongs and Africans complained and protested, Indians said it is they time now. Africans then realised Indians only wanted their support to get the rid of an African government, that in fact Indians were not interested in right and wrong, but only on being in charge and having a govt of their own.
###########################
I am glad to see another voice breaking down the true facts on Guyana. Walter Rodney was an Africanist and recognized that a fall of the Burnham regime would see an Indian dominated party take the reigns of Government still followed his conscience and battled Burnham. Now an Indian Government is doing far worse than the Bunrham Government, and except for a couple of Indians like Freddie Kissoon, apaan jaat is the order of the day.
For many Indians in Guyana it has always been race first. They inherited ethnic prejudices passed down from generation to generation that stereotyped blacks as inferior. Jagdeo is steeped in that belief system. That is why he can presumtiously ignore his performance in Guyana and lambaste Thompson. In Jagdeo’s eyeys, the sons of slaves, Prime Ministership and what not, are not on the same intellectual level he is. This dunce, according to his cultural prejudice believes he is superior to any black man, regardless of their academic or other intellectual accomplishment.
Anonymous // July 9, 2009 at 7:45 PM
David (our moderator) wrote
“Please go easy on the multiple usernames. Next time we will call names.”
and thereafter Tom, Jonathon and Greenidge disappeared … leaving only ABCDEFG! I hope we remember the story of Brer Rabbit and the briar patch!
Mash up & buy back // July 9, 2009 at 8:12 PM
David & other interested bloggers
In the interest of accuracy and fairness,I think you should know that the article read today on Brasstacks and attributed to Ricky singh – was in fact a column written in the Trinidad Express by Raffique Shah – an east indian trinidadian.
Even though he admits to not visiting barbados for some time,and he is basing his views – presented as facts – he accepts that this is apartheid against indians in Barbados.
Why ?
Because his indian brothers say so – ramphal,ricky singh,Jagdeo etc – so it must be so.
The Scout // July 9, 2009 at 11:04 PM
I missed that Mac Fingall’s song “2009″ today. Just hope some-one would have the courage to play it again. Dennis I know you told me you would look for it but I didn’t know you were that BOLD to play it
J // July 9, 2009 at 11:34 PM
On July 9, 2009 at 9:12 am Jonathan wrote
What is the brouhaha over the name J. Even if another use the name J couldn’t the original J handle this issue differently. AND HOW WOULD YOU SUGGEST THAT I HANDLE IT? I HAVE BEEN USING THE HANDLE J FOR MORE THAN A YEAR NOW AND I DO NOT WANT ANYBODY PRETENDING TO BE ME AND PUTTING WORDS IN MY MOUTH.
J can mean jackass I DETERMINED TO USE J AFTER THE UNMAMED FEMALE VOICE IN THE BIBLE.
The second J was not fighting you guys. This person supporting PM Thompson’s position and sharing knowledge with us. AH!!! BUT I DO NOT SUPPORT PM THOMPSON’S POSITION, AND I DON’T WANT ANYBODY PRETENDING TO BE ME AND SUPPORTING SOMETHING OR SOMEBODY WHOM I DO NOT SUPPORT. I’VE VOTED FOR BOTH THE DLP AND THE BLP (and I hope to continue doing so in the future) BUT I ALWAYS VOTE CONSCIENCE, NOT PARTY.
J // July 10, 2009 at 12:01 AM
“mash up & buy back wrote on // July 9, 2009 at 9:17 am…But Jonathan, J is totally against thompson’s position … this J aka kim young…A close check might reveal some indo guyanese blood there who knows?”
Dear mash up and buy back:
I am Bajan.
I have in front of me the marriage certificate of my great, great grand parents, Dolly Anne and Adam who were married in 1856 in St. James Barbados.
I am verifiably more Bajan than anybody else on this blog.
And because I am verifiably more Bajan that either you, the Prime Minister or the Leader of the Oposition it means that I do not have to agree with you nor with either of them.
You know I go to the blood bank regularly and my blood has likely been more carefully checked that the blood of most people but the blood bank professionals have never told me that they found indo gyanese, nor black nor white nor chinese nor anything else in it.
I donate; other people accept and I am sure that nobody ever says “do not give me the blood of that J because J is of the wrong party, or color, or religion, or nationality”
Nobody.
I am NOT Kim Young.
I do not even know who Kim Young is.
I’ve never met the lady.
J // July 10, 2009 at 12:13 AM
“Greenidge wrote on // July 9, 2009 at 10:20 am…one house will have at least 5 household help.”
Who are these Bajans who cannot run their households without 5 helpers?
J // July 10, 2009 at 12:17 AM
As a matter of principle I always do all my own housework.
Maybe some of you bloggers should try doing the same.
199 // July 10, 2009 at 3:06 AM
Sargeant, the reason for the conflict is simple: (a) Indians r more successful than we are and thus feel more important! (b) we’re black and they’re racially prejudiced and refuse to mix with us and, or treat us fairly! One does n’t need to read a thesis to make that accuate, deduction! The point is whether we’re prepared to be so treated by them, especially, in our own countries and, if we’re not, the soluion is not to invite them in!! It’s as easy as ABC!!
To the genuine ‘J’: I’m right with u!!
Yardbroom // July 10, 2009 at 5:35 AM
@ J July 10, 2009 at 12:01
Quote” I am verifiably more Bajan than anybody else on this blog”
Perhaps not quite – from your dates – I can trace my foreparents – all black- in Barbados from the records in Barbados since 1783 before which only slave christian names made further investigations impossible.
Yardbroom
JUAN GABRIEL // July 10, 2009 at 7:08 AM
Hopi and Scout you are on the ball with your comments. Those who care to view such as racist comments, then they are assured of their prerogative. How many of those blogging here have ever seen the EAST INDIAN in his true colours? They have only seen the FACADE. As a little boy growing up in East Canje, Berbice, Guyana, I can never forget those most racist comments Spouted by none other but the late Janet Jagan in an address that she gave to her constituents at Number 2 village, Canje. We were only three BLACK families living in that village. I was eleven years old at that time. I have never forgotten the responses to her statements by those present. Can you imagine ? They swore to slauther Blacks if they ever got in their way during their quest for power, the same way they did during the RACIAL upheaval in the sixties. By the way, my dad barely escaped death at the hands of these Indian BIGOTS during that time. Want to hear more abot them? They do not respect the black man and they do not care what they say in your presence, therefore why should I be viewed as racist when I respond in like manner?
The Scout // July 10, 2009 at 7:37 AM
J G
I am just telling it like it is, you have to be in it to know it; I was in it. This is just the tip of the iceberg, the real thing is still to come. The problem is these indians were you down slowly and then strike hard but always pretend to be the victims defending themselves. That is what is happening in the region especially Barbados, We’re on the verge of collapse
J // July 10, 2009 at 7:44 AM
Dear Yardbroom:
I haven’t completed my research yet. I am sure that I will get to 1783 before long.
Themis // July 10, 2009 at 8:13 AM
Why did Tony Marshall attribute the article to Ricky Sungh if Singh’s name was not on it? Is this defamatory of Singh?
Sargeant // July 10, 2009 at 1:55 PM
J
I am verifiably more Bajan than anybody else on this blog
*************************************
How come you are always trying to promote yourself as “more Bajan” than anyone else? First you let us know that your “navel string bury here” and now you claim to have some document showing that some long dead relatives were married here. Could you do us a favour and let us know the name of the slave ship your relatives arrived on? That way you can form a group similar to one in the US for the descendants of the Mayflower.
I predict that J will soon tell us that Bussa DNA flows through her veins
J // July 10, 2009 at 4:25 PM
Take it easy Sarge:
I only mentioned my bona fieds because somebody challenged me.
And I do not claim to have a document. I DO have the document and the original is in the Archives at Black Rock. You should pay a visit to the Archives the next time you visit. A very interesting place.
A great weekend and a happy summer to you.
Johnathan // July 10, 2009 at 6:30 PM
Anonymous // July 9, 2009 at 7:45 pm
David (our moderator) wrote
“Please go easy on the multiple usernames. Next time we will call names.”
and thereafter Tom, Jonathon and Greenidge disappeared … leaving only ABCDEFG! I hope we remember the story of Brer Rabbit and the briar patch!
___________________________
Anonymous, you seem to have a penchant for mischief and not dealing with the issue. I am an independent thinker informed by issues and realities NOT personalities. Please do NOT malign my name with your foolishness!
199 // July 11, 2009 at 7:29 AM
What’s the tale of Brer Rabbit? I never did read ‘Alice In Wonderland’, as a kid!! Read the first few lines and thought ‘this sounds like pure ****, and threw it to one side!! Would anybody mind telling me the tale now, if u know it, please?!! I find that as I’m getting older I’m taking an interest in these childrens’ stories again, starting with Baa, Baa, Black Sheep!!
Brer Fox // July 11, 2009 at 7:45 AM
“Would anybody mind telling me the tale now, if u know it, please?!! I find that as I’m getting older I’m taking an interest in these childrens’ stories again”
Come now, Brer 199, a little slice self-education should not be beyond someone like you. With the Internet, and all. You could take a walk along the yellow brick cyber highway in seconds. No need to pull out a plum, just pull out your thumb and say “What a good boy am I”.
199 // July 11, 2009 at 8:43 AM
Hi Brer, and thanks very much!! Did n’t read the book but watched the film!! What another ’set of cobblers’ (foolishness), eh?!! Anyway, I guess it amuses the kids!!
Lord!!
livinginbarbadob // July 11, 2009 at 9:02 AM
@199: You may not like the source of the suggestion (but spare us the diatribe). Many of the stories have their origins in real events and/or contain a moral in the tale. You may also wonder how similar stories feature in different continents. Anancy and Brer Rabbit stories are essentially from the same roots, just modified. Many English nursery rhymes tell you much about English political and social history. I hope your mind can take the exercise.
Themis // July 11, 2009 at 9:10 AM
199 never read “Alice in Wonderland? No wonder! But what has he read?
199 // July 11, 2009 at 12:07 PM
LIB, I’ve told u before, perhaps u did n’t believe me but, it’s true, honest!! that I’m not in the least bit interested in anything which u, as a Jamaican, has to say, except, if it’s to say “goodbye”, as you’re leaving my country!! As somebody else also, told u, “go and sort out Jamaican first before u bothe us with your twaddle”!!
199 // July 11, 2009 at 12:18 PM
Themis, when I was a child ‘Alice In Wonderland’ was a tome for little girls to read!! Are u a little girl, Themis?? I’m more into Virgel and Kapernicus!!
Laaaaadddddddddddddddd!! Not that they ever wrote anything sensible, either!!
Themis // July 11, 2009 at 12:26 PM
@199, Were these by any chance related to VIRGIL and COPERNICUS?
199 // July 11, 2009 at 3:44 PM
Themis, u should know by now dat I caan spell!!
Laaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaddd!!
Brer Fox // July 11, 2009 at 3:58 PM
Brer 199
“Hi Brer, and thanks very much!! Did n’t read the book but watched the film!! ”
What film you did watch, Brer 199. I neva mentioned no film? I didn’ mention filum. He’ in Geoygya, we’s knows th’essence o’ ol’ Brer Rabbit and Brer Fox is’n unnastannin’ that most o’ life is ’bout tricks. Some o’ dem reel obveeyus, like, but y’all need to reed pretty closely less’n you fall for tricks jus’ like w’en Brer Rabbit made ol’ Brer Fox put him in the briar patch, and he did get away, coz he was brung up inna briar patch. Mak’ shuh you don’ get yo’self stuck to no tar baby, now.
199 // July 11, 2009 at 5:01 PM
Hi Brer, thought u were referring to ‘The Yellow Brick Road’! May do a search! Can’t understand that dialect, at all – probably not worth the bother!! Thanks, anyway, Brer!!
Livinginbarbados // July 11, 2009 at 8:19 PM
Brer Fox
Brer 199, read and learn: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gullah