Link submitted by Living in Barbados Blog
The recently constructed Boardwalk on the South coast which stretches from Accra Beach for about half mile towards Bridgetown has been well received by locals and tourists alike. This week it was reported in the news that the Segway Scooters donated to the Royal Barbados Police Force have been withdrawn from patrolling the Boardwalk. If we can read between the lines from the press report, a policeman was injured while negotiating the Boardwalk but may not have been covered adequately by insurance.
The biggest negative feedback to date about the Boardwalk has been the lack of lighting which makes strolling the Boardwalk in the late evening somewhat of a risk. We thought it was the biggest negative feedback until we viewed the video above. The Internet can be our friend but it can be our enemy.
The relevant government agency needs to get in gear and remember that if we don’t care for our own, we are a tourist country for Godsakes!
592 responses so far ↓
Adrian Hinds // July 11, 2009 at 9:01 PM
18 million???? wunnuh wouldn’t stop building so close to the sea? But you mean tuh tell me duh aint got one hand operated rolling sidewalk sweeper in Bim?
Adrian Hinds // July 11, 2009 at 9:16 PM
But wait David you sure you got this from LIB? I just watch the entire clip and this is a typical BFP prodution.
….As the video shows, only certain people in Barbados care about Barbados,….but did they continue to clean until the job was done or only for the duration of the photo op?
I will not use this video to demonstrate why others were brought to the caribbean to do manual labour. lol!
Sorry folks but the 18 mil was wasted from the time they built it. Building on sand was never a good idea.
Anonymous // July 11, 2009 at 9:19 PM
Interesting video (from a sociological perspective)!
David // July 11, 2009 at 9:26 PM
Interesting observation Adrian without going racial.
It seems the Whites are more inclined to treat with matters of the environment and that’s a fact albeit based on observation.
Comment // July 11, 2009 at 9:40 PM
The videos intent while I am sure has the best intentions behind it can be a little deceiving. I have never walked the boardwalk but looking at the pictures of the sand, the sea etc it looks like they were taken right after “big sea”. As you can see there are not too many footsteps on the sand etc. I would guess early morning after big seas. In which case I dont think you can blame the NCC for not being down there right away. This happens on all beaches around the island when there have been high seas. Before I lay blame I would like to hear from others if that is the state it is in all the time???? Whenever I have been on specific sections its looked very clean to me.
Rumplestilskin // July 11, 2009 at 9:44 PM
Despite the previous post on the sociological aspect of the situation, and Adrian’s above backhanded acknowledgement of same, I will stick administrative issue at hand.
This non-maintenance of a significant public expenditure, while unfortunate and errant, should be no surprise.
There is always much ado about capital expenditure, yet subsequent upkeep of facilities is always lacking.
This is a general malaise or disrespect in this nation, towards our surroundings and nature.
Schools, hospital plant etc are left to ruin, until there is much complaint, at which point the patchwork ’solution’, if you can call it that, is used, one can hardly use the word implemented honestly.
Any time one places significant expenditure towards an area, subsequent upkeep is essential to ensure effective results are achieved, let alone regular maintenance reduces subsequent further remedial costs.
One might argue, that when something is left to ruin, it creates new opportunity for further multi-million dollars in remedial work, but I will not go there.
This however, goes beyond the strict common-sense knowledge of addressing administration of plant and equipment.
This is about ‘Pride and Industry’, that are boldly used as watchwords in our National Emblem.
‘Pride that makes no wanton boast’, per our Anthem, are words in direct conflict with much seen today.
Whether the lack of upkeep of our physical nation, or the nonchalant littering or indeed, the wine up and wuck up, grind all about, that is the thing we seek to showcase as ‘culture’, these all exhibit the truth that we have lost the plot as to what it means to be proud, not just as a people who have come far, but as civilised people who respect what the Almighty has created and given to us, that we may be comfortable.
Are we really proud of our island, or are these just words, used to satisfy our guilt that we really have not the inclination to do better?
While I will be the first to push for a fair chance for all and indeed have used space here to speak for that, I also reject the notion that we do not have choices, even if poor, to be respectful and industrious, in whatever small way that we can.
Our outward cleanliness and bearing, is reflective of our inward ideals.
Likewise, that of the nation, is also reflective of the collective conscience, as it stands today.
Later this year, things will get harder, not easier and our mettle will truly be tested like never before.
In times like this we need to be strong but foremost need to look to the basics that can take us through the chasm of trouble.
These basics are industry, respect, for ourselves and others and for respect and love of the Almighty and all creations.
Goods that are used to live, to survive are necessary, we must work hard to achieve these, but chasing material goods that have little use, is a waste of time and energy that can be better spent.
In times like this, leadership is also required to focus the collective conscience on necessities and peaceful advancement of beneficial attitudes.
I leave it there.
Finally, it is noticeable that in the last few weeks, the South Coast water has been unusually high and rough, as reflected in the way that the sand has been placed high on the beach, in the video.
Peace
Rumplestilskin // July 11, 2009 at 9:55 PM
‘Comment’, I noticed in the last few weeks, it was not clean, albeit usually not as bad as above, only on one occasion I saw.
Before that, it was impeccable, I do not know what happened.
But, it was recently opened, my worry is that the ‘honeymoon’ is over, as with most other things.
Anonymous // July 11, 2009 at 10:11 PM
What do you mean “built on sand”. Local and foreign engineers contributed to the design of the boardwalk. Construction was done by reputable firms from Trinidad and Barbados. The boardwalk enhances public access to that coastal area, provides a degree of protection to infrastructure from wave action and is part of a wider program of coastal rehabilitation going on both the south and west coasts. Now as to the cost, I cannot comment except that construction costs are high in Barbados as any householder can attest.
Anonymous // July 11, 2009 at 10:13 PM
I walked on the boardwalk only yesterday and it was in good condition and generally clear of sand.
Bush Tea // July 11, 2009 at 11:22 PM
Maybe the NCC people have come to realize that this is an exercise in idiocy.
It is amazing how the last administration could find $18 million to spend building concrete in sand next to an unpredictable ocean.
What coastal zone management unit what?!!
…who are these people and exactly what do they do?
…any sensible person would have used a fraction of that money to build a NATURAL parklike area along the beach….. there may even be some merit in an offshore boulder barrier to produce a calm lake-like beach to facilitate sea bathing and other beach activities….
…but no!! we are building concrete pathways on the edge of the Atlantic!!
I have been around long enough to know that everything that is placed next to the coast eventually will be destroyed.
It is indeed a fool that “buildeth upon the sand…”
Bush tea feels personally that Mr Neblett realizes that this is a lost cause and ‘done wid dat!’ ..LOL
———–
As far as the habit of littering by Bajans is concerned, it is indeed a nasty and unfortunate habit; however has anyone ever thought of any good reason why the average Mr. or Ms. Nobody should care about the environment?
- Do they feel ownership of Barbados?
- Do they feel that the rewards of success are fairly distributed to them?
- Are their opinions solicited in decision making? (hopefully the Constituency councils will address this)
- Given the recent philosophy of bringing Tom, Dick and LIB to Barbados with their know-it-all attitudes and misguided superiority complexes, who really expects that the average Bajan will comply and be a ‘Mr. Goodnegro’?
Wanna people have been reading too much fiction and listening to Tourist Board PR…..
When we get the kind of leadership that RESPECTS the average Bajan; rewards the average successful Bajan businessman; that lets HOME drums beat first; and that remembers that charity begins at HOME;
Only then- will Bajans demonstrate the pride and Industry that is indeed ingrained in us….
As I said in a previous thread, leadership is about developing your people to be the best that they can be. It is not about discarding them and importing strangers to run your country… and expecting the discarded and disrespected locals to be models of pride and industry too boot….
….Do I need to list the number of outstanding Bajans who are not allowed to succeed financially because of petty jealousies, Lodge clans, and misguided priorities???
The former PM actually said that bajan workers were asking for excessively high wages (making his imported friends unhappy) and that he would bring cheap foreigners to replace them….
What did that say to Bajans? ….and now these people posting videos talking about littering?!?!?
While Bajans may have reacted with an attitude of ‘not caring’, many other nationalities would have reacted in far more destructive ways….believe me!!
…seems to Bush Tea that the right people were cleaning the boardwalk…. those who enjoy the successes of our country.
Sargeant // July 11, 2009 at 11:30 PM
Rumplestilskin hit the nail on the head with his remarks about maintenance of public buildings and facilities. Lack of maintenance causes them to deteriorate at a faster rate than normal which generates unnecessary expenditure in repairing the premises and fixtures. (What is mash up and build back again?). Having been on the Boardwalk a few times and not seeing sand in the quantity portrayed on the video, I think that the object of the video is to embarrass the Gov’t read NCC into fixing those areas that they are responsible for and not necessarily the Boardwalk, notice that another trashy area was featured in the video. Not to make an excuse for the folks at NCC (though I’ve seen them goofing off in Queens Park) are they supposed to monitor the Boardwalk 24/7? What if a crew is assigned to clear the area at 10.00am daily and the “Friends etc” show up at 7.00 am complete with video equipment in hand?
As to the lack of lighting, I am sure that the area was supposed to be lit but the local establishments adjacent to the boardwalk voiced their objections and the Gov’t acquiesced to their wishes. In retrospect the decision seems to be ill advised.
The Segways were part of a public relations effort by the BTA and the Police following the Long Bay attack but they are a waste of time for the area. Two constables on foot patrol are a better fit and it looks like they have resorted to pounding the beat since a policeman fell off the self balancing vehicles.
Finally the sea can be a fickle friend; one minute it will bring great joy and the next misery.
Adrian Hinds // July 12, 2009 at 12:40 AM
Another Gem of a response from Bush Tea.
199 // July 12, 2009 at 2:20 AM
I ws half expecting to see a sign saying, ‘Whites Only’!! Perhaps, it’s just a matter of time?!! No blacks seem to live in the area!!
livinginbarbados // July 12, 2009 at 6:49 AM
There are many ways to react to the video. These include malicious propaganda by some white poeple to suggest that local blacks are uncaring about the environment, but local whites are. It could also show that inadequate consideration was given to a set of natural problems that have to be dealt with periodically, and for which perhaps no provision has been made. And so on. But, film aside, one still has to think about the issues that may exist. They were flagged in the early days after the boardwalk’s opening, and I think remain unaddressed. Those I saw immediately were (a) inadequate lighting (but my recollection is that the police opposed this because they did not want the area to attract undesirables after dark; (b) inadquate provision for litter disposal (I commented in January that there were no trash bins along the boardwalk, and with restaurants including a KFC fronting the area, one might expect an interest in providing such bins); (c) incomplete work (waste water of various kinds from the buildings was flowing toward the sea/boardwalk with no evident exist, and was stagnating); (d) damage to turtle nesting grounds/areas.
The other aspect to consider is that, like the tales that tourists tell, this is now being seen by world eyeballs that look on Barbados. If it is unwarranted, I know that I will read in a few days of a visit by a Minister to walk the walk with a camera crew and assure us that all is hunky-dory.
As some have noted B$ 18 mill. to build does nothing to maintain. Last I read, there was no money available for upkeep. You can do the rest of the figuring. Goodwill and maybe some corporate largesse may come forward, but that’s not how I imagine it’s supposed to be. But what do I know?Has anyone heard about the progress of the west coast boardwalk?
David // July 12, 2009 at 7:08 AM
People who know the Hastings stretch witness the sea at high tide splashing onto the car parks and road. Is this occurrence factored in the EIA and how it should be managed from a maintenance perspective?
Adrian Hinds // July 12, 2009 at 7:15 AM
199 // July 12, 2009 at 2:20 am
I ws half expecting to see a sign saying, ‘Whites Only’!! Perhaps, it’s just a matter of time?!! No blacks seem to live in the area!!
————————————————–
I have gotten use to this. There was a time you couldn’t find persons on material, video or pamphlet with skin tone darker than a tan advertising Bimshire tourism products in the Americas or Europe. So here we are once again with the faces of traditional marketeers of Barbados this time seemingly wanting to tell people to stay away.
Is that Peter Harris in the Dark Shirt? If so, um look real bad though, that not one Black person was invited to this video shoot. Now if only LIB was back in Bimshire he surely could have even things out with his presense. Not as a bajan God forbid, but as a darker hue person, well as long as he didn’t open his mouth. lol!
Adrian Hinds // July 12, 2009 at 7:40 AM
ha ha ha Now de Mullins Beach people gine be pissed that the Board walk needs saving also and may compete for scarce resources. And de people that own de great house down in Road view might got tuh swim on their own now. Is there any other place yet unidentified that we can think of to dump more money into the ocean?
199 // July 12, 2009 at 7:50 AM
Hi Adrian, the thing which really irritates me is that these ppl are probably some of the same who have given our people hell over the years at work and now they’ve reached retirement age, have come to live in BIM!! I would want to check their background before letting any of them into there!!
David // July 12, 2009 at 8:04 AM
@199
You are way out of line, don’t test us this bright Sunday morn!
Anonymous // July 12, 2009 at 8:06 AM
@David
“Is this occurrence factored in the EIA and how it should be managed from a maintenance perspective?”
[You mean ‘environmental impact assessment’? Whenyou find it you can do the civic thing and post it. See the IADB report on the process, http://www.iadb.org/sds/doc%5CMIREIA-Barbados.pdf, which seems to involve only the government, developer, and ‘consultants’.
For those who can think, (and AH don’t say I stirred this pot), you will sense already a tone that goes against those of a certain hue. I leave that for you ‘patriots’ to work out of your systems and think whether what I started as a facetious set of points really goes more to the core.
I have lobster to catch and baseball to watch.
For 199, a black film crew (Martinique/Guadeloupe) did a shoot already, but it’s in French, but I have not seen the final cut.
livinginbarbados // July 12, 2009 at 8:14 AM
*
RESUBMITTED WITH CORRECT ‘NAME’
@David
“Is this occurrence factored in the EIA and how it should be managed from a maintenance perspective?”
[You mean ‘environmental impact assessment’? Whenyou find it you can do the civic thing and post it. See the IADB report on the process, http://www.iadb.org/sds/doc%5CMIREIA-Barbados.pdf, which seems to involve only the government, developer, and ‘consultants’.
For those who can think, (and AH don’t say I stirred this pot), you will sense already a tone that goes against those of a certain hue. I leave that for you ‘patriots’ to work out of your systems and think whether what I started as a facetious set of points really goes more to the core.
I have lobster to catch and baseball to watch.
For 199, a black film crew (Martinique/Guadeloupe) did a shoot already, but it’s in French, but I have not seen the final cut.
For 199 again, perhaps you forget how things seem to be in Bim. This crew also have a film on Kadooment and I most people watching cannot ignore how 'Blue Box Cart' looks relative to othr groups. So, with that sort of background where do you see regularly the seemless intermingling of the black and white races in Bimshire? Lemon Arbour, occasionally. Cricket regularly. But beyond that?]
livinginbarbados // July 12, 2009 at 8:34 AM
@Adrian Hinds
“Is there any other place yet unidentified that we can think of to dump more money into the ocean?”
How about a marina or pier at Cattlewash, Northern Point or by the East Point lighthouse? Why just pander to the swanky people on the south and west coast?
General Lee // July 12, 2009 at 8:40 AM
David,
I sometimes wonder about your motives and intentions.
Did you watch this video, immediately recognized it for what it was, and then posted it to see if the rest of the family are as perceptive as you?
Yes the NCC is mandated to keep the boardwalk clean, but do we\they really expect that it will be as clean as a whistle all of the time, or was the second part of the video really they main concern?
David // July 12, 2009 at 8:43 AM
@General Lee
As always you are on the mark!
Sir Bentwood Dick // July 12, 2009 at 8:58 AM
NCC at Hastings first thing this am.
LOL.
David crew got powa, deng!
John // July 12, 2009 at 8:59 AM
I have not been on the board walk as yet but understand it was/is enjoyed by all and sundry.
I agree putting it there is an exercise in folly, but heck, that was what our Government was into in a big way.
I hope it has been designed and built to withstand the ravages of the sea but I know from the Speightstown Jetty which looked mighty strong that the sea is also both mighty and strong.
It is unfortunate that this discussion wanders off into colour but it is the Government who decided in their infinite wisdom to put it there and as one of its ministers so eloquently pointed out to Richard Goddard on national TV ……
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDNQtpP4deU
We have a problem with our government.
Don’t look at the colour of the skin of the people who are “embarrassing it” or we will be stuck with the problems they create for ever.
Anonymous // July 12, 2009 at 9:14 AM
The Gov’t summer camps are costing $6 million a year. Now remember that caterers are being paid to supply food to the camps WHILE THE SCHOOL MEALS DEPT REMAINS IDLE FOR THE SCHOOL SUMMER RECESS. In 4 years the present Gov’t will have spent $6 million more than it cost to build the boardwalk.
John // July 12, 2009 at 9:21 AM
How long did it take to build the boardwalk?
Hopi // July 12, 2009 at 9:52 AM
Well, well…I see that Bush Tea has upped the ante, and that makes me smile! And @199 with your post @ 7:50 am you are proving that you are truly an ‘intellectual goliath.’ Glad to know that Black people are slowly but surely rejecting the ostrich position.
For a minute there, I thought that this video was showing a Hastings over in that other part of the world.
With all this ‘global warming’ and ‘environmentalistic bull shit’ that’s constantly spewed worldwide [for total control] don’t be surprised when you see certain people pretending to ‘clean’ up the environment. Who benefited from all the pollution? Not Black us! These bastards go all over the world and f…up other people’s environment and life and now they get to live the sweet life in Barbados. Where’s the shame in their game?
I remember a time when Barbados was truly a clean a beautiful country and it was truly predominantly Black.
Well, I hope that whisety continue to build their houses, villas and hotels on the sand, because they are some things that are guaranteed in this life and one of them is that you can’t fight Mother Nature and win. So if the people will not exercise their will power to remove this scourge, you can count on HER!
Adrian Hinds // July 12, 2009 at 9:57 AM
No John I will look at the color angle, because it is a big part of the current approach of some white Bajans. It continues till this day, what Elizabeth Thompson took Richard Goddard to task for saying he intending on doing. If you see nothing wrong with BFP approach then please don’t caution me discussing the very obvious motive of theirs and others. Everybody has issues with the government of the day, while the majority of us call the radio programs, write the in the newspapers, and the blogs, or complain in the rumshops, no Richard Goddard, BFP, and this boardwalk groupies have taken to, and not in a small way to cherry pick those things that makes Barbados (run by black people) look bad, makes themselves look good, and deliberately publish them in a way to places that have an international appeal. You were one of the apologist that tried everything to diminish the racist actions of Goodridge and his son against little boy up in Highgate gardens, you were silent when Seth a seemingly disturbed man accuse the white management of a supermarket of discrimination. BFP as you have done today played up Liz Thompson comments, they listed all black BLP operatives that they alleged may have swiss banks accounts and grudgingly add Phillip Goddard after several days of repeated questions as to why he was left off the list.
@199
These boardwalk groupies don’t appear to be British, they appear to be very local. I think i heard one of them cussing in dialect only a white bajan perform. The Brits and Americans does come to barbados, clean, paint and build without crying down people or publishing their good deeds as an indictment against Barbados and it’s citizens.
General Lee // July 12, 2009 at 9:59 AM
“It is unfortunate that this discussion wanders off into colour but it is the Government who decided in their infinite wisdom to put it there and as one of its ministers so eloquently pointed out to Richard Goddard on national TV ……”
Very clever indeed, John.
So how exactly do we begin to ignore colour, after you reinforce your point with that link?
John // July 12, 2009 at 10:11 AM
It is amazing how well Liz Thomon in 1994/95 encapsulates many of the sentiments expressed herein, almost 15 years later.
The sentiments she uses to attempt to divide what should be a unified approach towards putting the GOB in its place are the same ones being used here.
Richard Goddard raised hell well before the GOB spent the $50 million on Greenland.
We, myself included, only now choose to speak to the perils of placing $18 million so close to the sea.
This is the problem.
Not the colour of people’s skins.
I have long figured that the effort to create division by raising the issue of colour is a learned response, carefully taught to us as children.
Liz learned to get on so. She is a product of her time.
It suited politicians of the 60’s and 70’s to harp on the difference.
Now, we who grew up in that period need to stand up and show that we are bigger than the crap pushed at us by our leaders and hold those leaders to account.
The alternative doesn’t bear thinking about.
Who knows, maybe the boardwalk is a benefit, but we sure won’t figure that out by harping on skin colour.
Adrian Hinds // July 12, 2009 at 10:13 AM
Lets play a game. Who can determine what is being said between min 1.35 and 1.40 of the youtube video?
Adrian Hinds // July 12, 2009 at 10:16 AM
To General Lee and John I can do both and so i will. You are not going to persuade me away from the very obvious.
Rumplestilskin // July 12, 2009 at 10:29 AM
Gosh, I really did not think it would go here, am I naive?
My approach to this, and it appears also is John’s, is that we have a problem that needs to be fixed.
All the argument about race cannot diminish the reality that maintenance of public property is woefully inadequate.
I do not see this as a video deliberately posted to embarass, but to identify an issue.
Sadly, as John is now finding out, race is a favourite topic of certain people of all races here in Barbados, which is why some overseas see this as little South Africa, albeit living in supposed harmony.
Unfortunately, as John points out, the ingrained ‘divide and rule’ is still working well, to prevent progress.
Reality is, that snowcone cups out of minibuses, school windows falling off, etc etc, are not the fault of a particular race, but the fault of lack of respect and pride, full stop.
As I noted earlier, the falling standards are exhibited in the crop-over jam session at which the parade consists mostly of wine up as hard as possible.
I have seen first hand, girls from a Brazilian dance school in a parade and believe me, the rythmic and elegant dancing down the street was more enchanting than any ‘wine up’ could ever be.
Why do we aim for lower, when higher exists?
Sorry, but I dont have race in this issue, I have leadership and standards.
Full stop.
You can talk chalk, but I done.
Peace
Adrian Hinds // July 12, 2009 at 10:33 AM
More of the same. chuspe
Hopi // July 12, 2009 at 10:51 AM
@John…..”I have long figured that the effort to create division by raising the issue of colour is a learned response, carefully TAUGHT to US as children.”
Straight from the horse’s mouth.
I’m glad that you have exposed the truth about how racism is truly taught in you ‘whitey’ house and please don’t speak for Black folk because we don’t teach our kids to hate. We all live in a racist world and whether or not you admit it. Every aspect of our life is affected by it, including the manner in which Barbados is governed. So blow ya smoke elsewhere.
Rumplestilskin // July 12, 2009 at 10:58 AM
”Adrian Hinds // July 12, 2009 at 10:33 am
More of the same. chuspe”
And Hopi ‘So blow ya smoke elsewhere’
Ah, I thought this was a public blog?
But then, some do not like to hear opposing views.
Reality is, Barbados’s standards have fallen in all aspects. You have focused on the race issue but refuse to rebut on the basis of falling standrs, of which I have given numerous examples.
From this, it is clear where your minds are firmly planted and it makes no sense to ‘discuss’ anything with you.
Thus, if you have nothing useful to contribute, then why answer John or myself?
Let others be free to discuss at will.
Peace
Anonymous // July 12, 2009 at 11:02 AM
Wouldn’t it solve all of Barbados’ problems if all the white and “whitish” people just up and leave and let us sort things out? People here getting tired of having to work hard and getting exploited and only white people enjoying all the sweets. These white people have some gall to suggest that Black people are mainly responsible for destroying the environment. We don’t own the hotels and businesses that polluting the coastline.
I heard that Kyffin Simpson bought a million acres of land in Guyana. That is over 2000 sq miles!! All the white and whitish Bajans can relocate there and build their paradise (if they can) and leave beautiful Barbados to Black people to finally enjoy.
While Thompson is sending the indians back to Guyana he can send the white Bajans along.
Rumplestilskin // July 12, 2009 at 11:10 AM
Anon,
Let me do you a big favour.
Go back to my first post, even if you do not want to read the whole thing, read the second half, starting with ‘Later this year…’
Remember it.
Peace
Anonymous // July 12, 2009 at 11:14 AM
You see how these white apologists are? A Brazilian girl (probably with she bubbies fully exposed) wukking up is somehow of a higher standard than a Bajan girl doing the same at Crop-Over!
Notice how Rumplestilskin subtly implies that Black people ain’t got no respect nor pride cause some of us throw cups out of the minibuses.
Hopi, Bush tea and Adrian Hinds deal with them. Expose the blood suckers.
Rumplestilskin // July 12, 2009 at 11:16 AM
Anon,
Simpson is a shrewd man. I doubt that land is for residential purposes, sorry to burst your bubble.
Guyana, while at the bottom now, has only one way to go.
Mark my words, in twenty years, people will indeed be moving to Guyana, why?
Land, agriculture, production!
Life is about cycles, we are at the height of ours, without the right leadership, only one way to go. Unfortunately, some serious economic errors have already been made.
Guyana, at the bottom, also, with the right leadership, only one way to go.
Simpson realises this obviously, clever lad.
Life is tres interesting, no?
Peace
The People's Democratic Congress // July 12, 2009 at 11:17 AM
Indeed, this coastal boardwalk was built under the former BLP Government, at a very tremendous cost of BDS $18 Million, for the leisure, recreation and walking pleasure of locals and visitors alike.
But, who would believe it that since governments were changed on January 15 2008, and now that this joke DLP has been holding the reins of governmental office, this fairly costly structure would NEVER have been maintained by government, according to the video above? Why would a DLP Government – under whose watch this boardwalk was opened – NOT be so inclined as to give great and overwhelming consideration to the maintenance of this piece of public property which it is supposed to be properly managing on the behalf of the people?
For, the duty of any government of the day in this country is to properly and efficiently manage the property of the people to the best of its ability, and within the limits set down by its money and resources allocations – irrespective of which other party it was then that was at the helm of the government when such a structure like this, was started,built, etc., or irrespective of which other party it is right now or in the future that is at the helm of government – owing to a change of government – and that has to later accept responsibility for its maintenance or upgrading.
For, it is this and other great mounds of evidence of this unnecessary petty partisan politics and strife that exist between the DLP and BLP, which does NOT serve the national good, that is one of the reasons why we are calling for both DLP and BLP to be eventually kicked out of parliament by the majority of voters of this country, in the interest of the greater and further development of this country.
Moreover, the duty of a government is to have a proper and effective plan for the wholesome management of the people’s property, and that, et al, will NOT ONLY seek to minimize instances of devaluation, dilapidation, neglect, misuse, abuse, criminal property damage, or whatever, BUT that will ALSO seek to secure the financing and the sourcing of people and material necessary for the proper maintenance in day to day up keep of the structure, and that will also seek to minimize in the long term the costs of maintaining, refurbishing, and upgrading such property.
Why is it that these two old traditional parties with vast – though NOT great – experience in government, would continue to have such bad records at managing the property of the people and bad records too at having no proper plans for the managing of such property? Why?
Why is it therefore that the DLP and the BLP will continue to blatantly, wilfully and recklessly mismanage so much of the property of the people of this country, indeed, goes some way to the heart of some principles that establish government within a supposedly fairly modern and civilized society like Barbados – whereby PROTECTION OF PROPERTY IS A VERY FUNDAMENTAL REQUIREMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION AND OTHER RELEVANT PROPERTY PROTECTING LAWS OF THIS COUNTRY, AND IS SO NECESSARY FOR THE STABILITY AND FURTHER DEVELOPMENT OF THE COUNTRY.
Therefore, any serious deviation from these principles relating to the protection of property, or any serious lack of protection of property, will offer opportunities for greatly increasing the probabilities of vandalism, theft, devaluation, neglect, in the Barbadian society, and conditions leading to general instability and decline in the affairs of this country. So, property and property relations must as much as reasonably possible be protected by the government and some others, and NOT be unreasonably destroyed or undermined by them.
But, yet, you have a situation in Barbados whereby ministers and other public officials, because they do NOT own such property of the people, have over the years been totally undermining of such legal protections, and the spirit encompassing them, by their presiding over the wanton neglect, degradation, and disrespect for the people’s property. Thus, they they have otherwise failed to preside over a regime of property maintenance that ensures that the property of the people is as reasonably and as much as possible safeguarded from such neglect and negligence – as in this case of this boardwalk – and one that ensures that the property of the people is as reasonably and as muchly as possible protected, and done so in line with the those reasonable expectations that are given to it and its relatives by the law and its spirit.
Verily, too, it is primarily because such public officials do NOT have to pay monies – DIRECTLY OUT OF THEIR OWN POCKETS AS IF THEY HAD OWNED SUCH PROPERTY THEMSELVES – to keep up the property of the people, that the property of the people is so often grossly mismanaged, and even in so far as some new buildings are concerned and that are built by the government – when such actually happens, that involves the spending of totally unnecessary expenditures, when there ought NEVER to be built/to have been built in the first place, or instead of refurbishing old or not so buildings that it has controlling and managing, there is, again, seen this waste of expenditure which involves the very disgusting sight of government foolishly going and renting out private sector buildings to do its business, when it should be doing better.
Believe it or NOT, though, no political party that does NOT have a proper plan for the management of the people’s property should ever be or have been elected into this country. NONE, WHATSOEVER!!
Believe it or NOT, too, the central issue in this video concerning this particular boardwalk involves the willful neglect of this piece of property by this joke DLP government after the former inept BLP Government would have pumped so much money into it when it was a project that was being developed. Well, certainly, any other issues that are being discussed on here are really tangential or irrelevant to the discussion concerning this boardwalk!!
Furthermore, if it is true that the National Conservation Commission (NCC) has been vested with the responsibility of upkeeping this beautiful structure – which can – if left as it is right now – deteriorate in condition fairly quickly over time owing to its proximity to the sea, sea spray, sand and other things, and owing to its continued exposure to the other elements – why is it that they are NOT doing their job or are NOT being made to do their job? What management, supervisory, labor-oriented, union issues might therefore be reasonably involved before putting in place a process for the good managing, supervising and general keeping up of the boardwalk? If there are such issues to be first resolved before there is the actual upkeep of this boardwalk, why is that the NCC is taking so long to get them sorted out before a sense of urgency is brought to bear on the management of the boardwalk. Why is it that a group of individuals should have to take it upon themselves to maintain a portion of this boardwalk that is owned by the people? Why?
Certainly, the above issues raised by the PDC are issues that this DLP Government and/or the NCC need to bring into the public’s domain for the proper informing of many people of this country as to what is the present status of this boardwalk. Thank You.
PDC
Donald Duck, Esq // July 12, 2009 at 11:18 AM
Anonymous
Why are you so racist!!!
Rumplestilskin // July 12, 2009 at 11:20 AM
Anon,
Pull back your venom, really.
Actually, that Brazilian was definitely not exposed.
It is called, ‘dance’. It is called elegant.
I am no ‘apologist’ as you like to term it.
Is it not interesting that persons who call others racist, resort to name calling and venom, rather than confronting issues and facts?
Your skirt is showing.
Facts, please, not verbiage.
Peace
Anonymous // July 12, 2009 at 11:21 AM
Rum.,
read Bush tea. Wunna enjoy all the sweets when things good and now when things brown you want to preach “togetherness and all o’ we is one”? Wunna got the place in this mess so now get us out or better yet just leave and go live in Simpsonia where all will be perfect.
Adrian Hinds // July 12, 2009 at 11:27 AM
I take it that that defenders all have not attempted to deduce what was said between minute 1.35 and 1.40 of the clip. Maybe you have and cannot be certain of what was said, hence the filerbustering. Any takers? tell us what was said.
Rumplestilskin // July 12, 2009 at 11:28 AM
PDC,
LOL. You have really made me smile.
That is precious. That lengthy speech, could have been written by our esteemed personage in Opposition.
Thanks.
Anyhow, I have work to go and do, have an enjoyable day, including Hopi, Adrian Hinds and Anon.
I’ll leave you with a quote:
”Laughter is the corrective force which prevents us from becoming cranks.
– Henri Bergson”
Have a laugh today.
Peace
Anonymous // July 12, 2009 at 11:30 AM
Duck
what wrong with being racist?! Yuh mean Black people can’t look out for their own? We got to be more like Christ than Christ Himself? Even He had to flog the moneychangers out of the temple!
Anonymous // July 12, 2009 at 11:36 AM
Hinds
what was said?!! I listened about 4 times and I cannot make out a thing. So make your point if you have one!
Adrian Hinds // July 12, 2009 at 11:47 AM
ha ha ha Anon don’t be in a rush. Do you know the name of the fella picking up the rocks?
Anonymous // July 12, 2009 at 11:59 AM
Hinds
Never see them people before far less know their names. I don’t move in those circles! I’ll stay tuned.
199 // July 12, 2009 at 11:59 AM
You are way out of line, don’t test us this bright Sunday morn!
*****************
David, that’s my sincerely held view. I can only assume u have n’t experienced the racism of living in a white country and thus find it difficult to understand the point I’m making! In which case, u don’t know how lucky u are!
************
And @199 with your post @ 7:50 am you are proving that you are truly an ‘intellectual goliath.’
******************
Hopi, u laughing at me, ent yuh!!
Lord!!
**************
Ok, Adrian, I’ve got u!! However, as you’ll know, my experience has been of the British as a consequence of which, if I had my way, I would n’t let a single one of them into Bim, to retire!! However, they need n’t worry as it’s their good fortune that, sadly, I’ll never become PM of Bim, to my huge chagrin!
The People's Democratic Congress // July 12, 2009 at 12:04 PM
Rumplestilskin,
But, why did you laugh,Rumplestilskin, if you were really laughing?
We ask this question, because we are NOT sure why you laughed.
But, what you must NEVER laugh at is the fact that the claimed BDS $ 18 million dollars in that project involved the then BLP Government and now this DLP Government having to steal from the people via TAXATION to put money into this structure.
There is NO MORE shocking, wicked and evil a manner than to do so. This is a very serious matter.
That is why we the majority of people must eventually also kick both the DLP and BLP out of the parliament of this country.
PDC
199 // July 12, 2009 at 12:17 PM
This is the gem I hope to find the next time I walk down The Boardwalk!
http://www.nationnews.com/news/local/Default-livvi-franc-FRONT-PAGE-LEAD
Hopi // July 12, 2009 at 12:18 PM
If this piece is supposedly about a $18m boardwalk, why allot so much time to ‘whitey’ supposedly cleaning up some ‘mess’…which actually has more right to be there than the boardwalk…, and then call some of us ‘haters’ for seeing the obvious.
Why don’t whitey go and clean up all their nuclear and other toxic pollution/destruction that they are pouring into the oceans of Mother Al-kebulan? Look at the pollution & destruction that they have left in Iraq and Afghanistan, Pakistan and all over South America.
And to that other long-winded, long-whiskered billygoat/s who stated the foll…..”Well, certainly, any other issues that are being discussed on here are really tangential or irrelevant to the discussion concerning this boardwalk!
What kind of leader do you really want to be?
199 // July 12, 2009 at 12:19 PM
The way they’re tending it, you’d think it was ‘a little piece of England in Bim’, would n’t u!!
Rumplestilskin // July 12, 2009 at 12:27 PM
PDC,
Fair enough, point taken.
Hindsey,
I tried to make out what was said, but could not. Does it matter anyway, my point is maintenance of Gov’t properties.
Enjoy your day,
I gone again, wont be back today.
Thinking // July 12, 2009 at 12:59 PM
“The relevant government agency needs to get in gear and remember that if we don’t care for our own, we are a tourist country for Godsakes!”
—————————
**Apologies if this comment shows up twice. Not sure if it went through the 1st time.**
I hope that the author of the above (David, was it you?) did not mean to imply that the only reason why we should care, is for the tourists and because we are a ‘tourist country.’
So, if we were an ‘oil country’ or ‘mining country’, would that make it okay to not care about our natural and built environment?
What happened to when we were told, if you can’t do it in your house, don’t do it in other places (‘do it’ as in making a mess, dirtying up, NOT as in having sex, LOL).
This country is for Barbadians (I’m not going to discuss colour), therefore, the responsibility lies with us to keep it ship shape not only for the enjoyment of others, but for ourselves first and foremost.
Thinking.
(p.s., I’m sure the author did not mean to imply that we look after our own purely for the sake of tourists, but, it still makes you think, doesn’t it?)
Sargeant // July 12, 2009 at 1:04 PM
People in Barbados love to complain:. They complain about the Sun; the Rain; ZRs; Transport Board; Crop Over; the Highway; Cost of Living; Immigration; Agriculture;Tourists; Eleven plus ad infinitum. During the past week a woman was so happy at her son’s results in the eleven plus exam that she promptly complained that the book he received as a prize was inadequate.
Perhaps the folks who commissioned the video have an interest in environmental issues and that is their focus. Everyone is free to focus on his or her area of concern whether it is the Hospital; ABC Highway; Dilapidated schools or run down Police Stations and make and post their own critical video.
The larger point is now that the boardwalk has been constructed do we say well it shouldn’t have been built in the first place? The 18 million is taxpayer’s money and is long gone; many disagree with certain aspects of the ABC Highway and Kensington Oval should we overlook maintenance because some things are not to our liking?
Its time that we overlook who did what and focus on what needs to be done otherwise we will be running fast while standing in the same location.
David // July 12, 2009 at 1:46 PM
@Thinking
keep it real are or are we not a country reliant on the tourist dollar to keep our economy going?
Let’s be pragmatic!
Thinking // July 12, 2009 at 2:01 PM
@David
I’m all for keeping it real. I too realize the importance of keeping the island clean (so to speak), so as to attract visitors and by extension their tourist dollars. After all, I personally wouldn’t enjoy visiting a country, especially one that bills itself as a tourist destination, that was untidy and dirty.
However, I do not think we should be doing it solely to please visitors to the island. This is our home. We should treat it with respect. By doing so, if visitors to the island enjoy their stay, then all the more better. But they should not be the main impetus behind keeping our island clean.
Thinking.
Thinking // July 12, 2009 at 2:10 PM
@David
**Is it me, or is anyone else having trouble with the comments?**
I’m all for keeping it real. I too realize the importance of keeping the island clean (so to speak), so as to attract visitors and by extension their tourist dollars. After all, I personally wouldn’t enjoy visiting a country, especially one that bills itself as a tourist destination, that was untidy and dirty.
However, I do not think we should be doing it solely to please visitors to the island. This is our home. We should treat it with respect. By doing so, if visitors to the island enjoy their stay, then all the more better. But they should not be the main impetus behind keeping our island clean.
Thinking.
Anonymous // July 12, 2009 at 2:58 PM
I find it remarkable the amount of discussion devoted here to the colour of the people cleaning up the boardwalk and not the fact that the maintenance was poor in the first place.
I would contend that race has become a red herring to deflect from poor government policy and administration yet again. It was that way when Liz used it against Richard Goddard and it is that way again.
As to the boardwalk being built by the sea, any competent civil engineer would be able to tell you how to design sea defences to with stand the ocean. NO it will not stop a storm surge from coming over but it will protect the buildings on the coast from the day to day erosion by wave action.
The accretion of sand on the sea side of the boardwalk means that at some point we MAY be able to look forward to having a beach there. Interestingly if such a beach were to occur the boardwalk would solve the ever thorny problem of beach access for Bajans.
Don Blackman used race in 1986-91 to deflect attention away from siting squatters in a Zone 1 area, Liz Thompson used it to deflect attention from the Government siting a landfill in an area prone to landslides, on this thread we are seeing it use YET AGAIN to deflect attention from inept Government administration but still the discussion has successfully been steered away from why isn’t the Government (NCC) doing its job.
When will we ever learn.
Diggit // July 12, 2009 at 3:16 PM
Have to agree with you there, Pat (Sargeant/PiedPiper et al …). And imagine how my eyes bug out as I sat on the said same boardwalk this morning reading … guess what? Your letter in the Advocate!
Carson C. Cadogan // July 12, 2009 at 3:25 PM
livinginbarbados
“THE two-thirds of Jamaica’s labour force who are “functionally illiterate” is partly to blame for the country’s dismal growth rate, according to the World Bank.
“Besides the one third of potential workers who remain outside of the labour force and are not even looking for jobs; a little over two thirds of those who are in the labour force are functionally illiterate in the sense that they have never taken a test in their lives, not even at the grade nine level,” World Bank special representative, Badrul Haque, said last Tuesday during a specially arranged sitting of Parliament at Gordon House in Kingston.
“So you begin to see a reason why countries like Lebanon, despite very high debt, can grow very rapidly and Jamaica has difficulty,” he said, pointing to estimates from the Planning Institute of Jamaica which show that labour productivity in the last 35 years have been declining by 1.5 per cent annually. In addition to that, the country’s Gross Domestic Product (GDP) growth rate has stood at just about 0.8 per cent annually over the last 35 years.”
I would like you to explain this to me. Taken from the Observer newspaper in Jamaica.
Sargeant // July 12, 2009 at 3:30 PM
Diggit
Pat is a new one…. Guess I’ll have to read the Advocate to find out what I wrote
John // July 12, 2009 at 3:32 PM
… and did you know that Integrity Legislation was ko’d back in the 60’s or 70’s because Bob Bryden was a white man!!!
…. at least if you go by what Patsy Springer had to say in Parliament this could could be a conclusion.
It is recorded in Hansard.
Sanka Price wrote an article on the 30 odd years that ITAL has been talked about in Parliament …… masterpiece.
Amazing how the race talk was used to scuttle it in the beginning.
The point I am making about the use of the race talk to divide and sidetrack is that it was inculcated in us by our leaders at a time when we held them in awe.
The tactic is more likely to be used by people who grew up in the early Independence era because thay came and found our leaders doing it, and then, our leaders were gods!!
No doubt Liz like many of us from the period learnt the tactic too.
Carson C. Cadogan // July 12, 2009 at 3:37 PM
Sorry to be offtopic
….but I must support Hartley Henry again.
The following is a piece from the Observer newspaper in Jamaica.
“A few years ago on Penn & Teller’s highly rated, excellent TV show which airs on Showtime, ‘Bulls..t,’ there was an episode where the hosts conspired with a restaurant operator to serve upscale patrons ‘expensive’ bottled water. It is accepted that, “the stated aim of ‘Bulls..t’ is to apply critical thinking to misconceptions, and as is indicated by the show’s title, the programme adheres to Penn & Teller’s characteristically blunt, aggressive presentation.”
At the front of the finely decked-out California restaurant the bottles of water, ostensibly manufactured in France, Switzerland and other ‘exotic’ places where only the finest spring water is produced, were well-dressed patrons who regularly dined at top-class restaurants. These were people who made it a habit to nosh on foie gras, beluga caviar, brutally expensive game poultry and the best wines.
Silverware and crystal flutes of bubbly were as common to the diners as plastic cups of lemonade are to a poor Jamaican family. The waiter approached them and told them that the restaurant had just received a new consignment of the finest bottled water in the world. It was prearranged that the small bottles would have exotic, false labels. As ‘expensive’ as the range of water was, he wanted them to taste and give him their rating.
For about 10 minutes they tasted water labelled L’eau Du Robinet, Mt Fugi and others. And they positively oozed praise as the waiter told them about the supposed qualities of the water. Imagine their surprise when they were taken around the back of the restaurant to see the source of the ‘bottled’ water. A pipe and a garden hose!”
We have the same bunch of Idiots here in Barbados.
Sargeant // July 12, 2009 at 3:40 PM
Diggit
Oh its Patrick Porter , guess I forget whom I am supposed to be
Jack Bowman // July 12, 2009 at 4:15 PM
This is confusing.
At 2: 58 pm on Sunday, Anonymous said this:
“I find it remarkable the amount of discussion devoted here to the colour of the people cleaning up the boardwalk … race has become a red herring to deflect from poor government policy and administration.”
Is that the same Anonymous who said these things on the same thread at various points during Sunday:
“Wouldn’t it solve all of Barbados’ problems if all the white and “whitish” people just up and leave …”
“Kyffin Simpson bought a million acres of land in Guyana … All the white and whitish Bajans can relocate there and build their paradise (if they can) and leave beautiful Barbados to Black people to finally enjoy …”
“What wrong with being racist?! …”
If these are two separate individuals, perhaps the one who isn’t a racist numbskull should consider changing his/her name.
Hopi // July 12, 2009 at 4:52 PM
Well isn’t so funny how @ 4:15pm, some people just ain’t got nuttin, nada to say!
And yes, when will we ever learn to UNLEARN the lies, deceit and false teachings that has been forced upon us. When will we learn to do things our way and stop following ‘whitey.’ When will we ever learn to UNLEARN?
livinginbarbados // July 12, 2009 at 6:28 PM
@Sargeant
“People in Barbados love to complain…Its time that we overlook who did what and focus on what needs to be done otherwise we will be running fast while standing in the same location”
[If I agree with you will I become the whipping boy for having uttered this almost self-evident truth? I read this thread during the quiet passages during the baseball, and it was amazing how quickly the discussion got derailed. Therein lies something deep, at least amongst some of those who play in this 'sand pit'. I will fill my head with the supposedly wholesome philosophy of the Founding Fathers who spoiled tea time for the British.]
livinginbarbados // July 12, 2009 at 6:34 PM
@Carson C. Cadogan
“I would like you to explain this to me.” [You clearly cite the author of the World Bank report from which you extract, so why not be direct and pose your questions to Dr. Haque, whose contact details are readily obtained from the World Bank's website?]
Anonymous // July 12, 2009 at 8:45 PM
@Jack Bowman…..
I think you will find that those are other people who chose not to fill in the name field on the comment.
It might be two or three people.
I think you will be able to tell I’m not a racist numbskull by my comment :)
So I’ll remain anonymous for the moment.
The People's Democratic Congress // July 13, 2009 at 7:11 AM
Here are some things that a future PDC Government will do in this country:
1) Abolish Taxation;
2) Abolish Interest Rates;
3) Abolish All Exchange Rate Parities with the Barbados Dollar;
4) Abolish Motor Vehicle Insurance;
5) Seriously Reform the Hire Purchase Regime in this country;
6) Make Institutional Loans for Productive Purposes Non-Repayable;
7) Make sure that Imports of Goods and Services are Zero-”priced” at ALL points of entry;
8) Make that Exports of Goods and Services – once destined for the external market – are paid for in Local currency/”prices”;
9) The disabusing of the notion of measuring for Inflation – but, the making sure that as much money/value as possible – in any given year – goes in the productive and distributive systems of Barbados;
10) The establishing of a system whereby present-day workers, supervisors, managers and owners of business enterprises in Barbados shall become PART-OWNERS of all multi-member corporate business entities in this country – a similar situation shall also obtain with regard to present day workers, supervisors, managers and party political functionaries of the state – whereby they shall be part-owners of a new management entity that shall be charged with the managing of the business of the state and the people of Barbados;
11) The making sure that there is a drastic reduction in the overall size and scope of the government, and that alternatively the private sector is given greater space and incentives to produce and export much more, and, yes, more efficiently in the country;
12) The institution of a modern and efficient regime of rent control in this country;
13) The institution of a national land “ownership” regime whereby NO foreigners or foreign entities will be capable of owning our lands – ONLY Barbadians and Barbadian entities shall be capable of doing so and capable of passing over such rights to Barbadian people and entities ONLY. Foreigners and foreign owned entities shall however be capable of leasing rights over the land on a relatively short term basis;
14) The removal of the first past the post electoral system, and its replacement with a variant of the proportional representational system;
15) The removal of the Queen as Head of State of Barbados – and the installing of an Elected Executive Head of State – whom shall be part of a Cabinet that is elected by “the people” based on that said proportional representational system. This Cabinet shall itself be composed of party membership, non-party political membership, and independent political membership;
16) The establishment of a legislative system whereby constituents shall debate and pass the laws of this country;
17) The establishment of a system whereby Judges of the High Court and of the Court of Appeal, and some other senior people in the government – like the top law enforcement official – shall be nationally elected to their respective positions in this country based on the said proportional representational system. These judges and these relevant other senior people shall in this way and other ways be made more accountable to the people;
18) The building of a modern, cost and fuel efficient railway system for Barbados which shall run back and forth on the existing ABC and Ronald Mapp Highways;
19) The breaking of the monopoly that the Caribbean Broadcasting Corporation has in local television broadcasting – and the facilitating of at least one locally owned television station that will cater primarily to the broadcasting of many aspects of local history, heritage, culture, entertainment, industry, etc.;
20) The building of a modern, well equipped, and acute care hospital in the north of the country;
21) The introduction of a system of specialized academies for the secondary school system of Barbados and which shall specialize in the teaching of and the interacting with subjects and conditions that pertain to every day living and business experiences in Barbados and elsewhere. These academies shall also incorporate and place under their jurisdiction existing secondary schools; and, finally for now,
22) The Abolition of the Common Entrance Exam, and to take its place – A National Continuous Assessment Program.
PDC
Save Mullins Bay // July 13, 2009 at 8:08 AM
If I may steer this discussion back to the beach and the boardwalk, I have an idea for the NCC and/or CZMU for what to do with all of that problematic beach sand in Hastings and/or anywhere else on Barbados. How about collecting it and using it to nourish sand-ravaged beaches on the west coast like Road View and Mullins. Sure, we are going to need far greater quantities than that thrown up around the boardwalk but those quantities will be drastically reduced when we remove the idiotic groynes hogging sand around the property of the demolished Sandridge Hotel where they are now building The Sands II – http://shar.es/CFmd – .
John // July 13, 2009 at 8:14 AM
…. so, we have Liz Thompson in 1994/95 expressing more or less the same sentiments as are being expressed here.
Back Back to the year 1975.
The BLP had in their election manifesto of 1971 promised to enact integrity legislation if elected.
In July 1975, not long before elections, Tom Adams brought a Private Member’s Bill calling for Integrity Legislation.
His resolution was seconded by Lionel Craig.
An acrimonious debate followed.
Debate was adjourned and when consideration of the resolution resumed on December 2 1975, J.B. “Patsy” Springer “saw a racial motive behid the call and questioned whether this issue would have been raised if white people were in power.”
He had this to say on the floor of the house.
“Can you countenance anybody asking A.S. Bryden – he held office in the vestry – or who was so mad as to write in the newspaper asking him to declare his assets?”
He went on:
“They have lost political power and they are asking every black man who is holding office , so long as he can change a car three times a year, walk about looking clean and carrying a cheque book to declare his assets”.
“Whenever black people are put in authority all types of derogatory remarks are used against them purely because the people from whom they took power have not yet accepted that they are capable of governing.”
… and he went on …” The regrettable thing about it is that there are some black people in the community who will not defend any mistake a black man makes, but they will find an excuse for one made by a white man”.
Another MP, this time DLP, same sentiments!!
The article does not indicate whether any of the the other MP’s took exception to these comments and what they said.
I suspect they said nothing.
It is uncanny how such sentiments expressed in 1975, crop up 20 years later in 1994/95 and then 35 years later are expressed by normal citizens of Barbados.
Source: Sanka Price: “All Talk on Integrity Law …. Heated House Debates over 35 years”.
Sunday Sun April 30 2006.
….. and he is quoting Hansard!!
John // July 13, 2009 at 8:25 AM
Sorry SMB, I found the article and wanted to quote from it to show how our leaders have shaped how we think.
The issue has alot to do with leadership and what leadership will accept, and obviously at the time leadership accepted the tirade in parliament.
Not much hope for us unless we hold them, and ourselves, accountable for doing the right thing …. and saying the right thing.
What we say often is an indicator of how we will act under pressure, …. although it is usually said “Actions speak louder than words”.
Adrian Hinds // July 13, 2009 at 8:27 AM
John we need ITAL no question about it. It is also true that some WHITE BAJANS BELIEVE THAT BLACK PEOPLE CANNOT MANAGE A THING. EQUALLY TRUE IS THE CURRENT ACTIVITY OF SOME WHITE BAJANS TO DISCREDIT BARBADOS INTERNATIONALY IN SUCH AWAY THAT ALL LOOK BAD EXCEPT THEMSELVES. The Youtube video that started this thread is yet another in several such attempts.
It’s not uncanny if todays observations are relevant to todays attitudes that have not change much in 20 years.
Adrian Hinds // July 13, 2009 at 8:34 AM
John // July 13, 2009 at 8:25 am
Sorry SMB, I found the article and wanted to quote from it to show how our leaders have shaped how we think.
————————————————–
Our leaders don’t only stop at politico’s. They include the church leaders, and prominent business people,…..lots of whites, Indians, and Blacks. But i disagree that our leaders are responsible for my current views on SOME white bajans. What is responsible is their actions and words. You cannot make your point, make it true while shying away from the counter points i put up. Like the rest of us so too shall they be known by their deeds.
Adrian Hinds // July 13, 2009 at 8:54 AM
[quote]The regrettable thing about it is that there are some black people in the community who will not defend any mistake a black man makes, but they will find an excuse for one made by a white man”. [/quote]
I DON’T KNOW YOU. but 20 years later
The responses in defense of the Goodridges makes this still very true. On BFP, BU, and the Barbados Forum those words spoken some 20 years ago rang true, and you were one of many front and center with a plethora of excuses.
The Goodridge racially tinged beating case demonstrated yet again the general distrust SOME white bajans have for blacks. In the face of overwhelming evidence against the actions of Mark Goodridge, and on realizing the planned lies were not going to work, the focus of some whites moved to suggesting that to talk about it will INFLAME racial tensions, and destroy Barbados. Now, after that case has been bought out, they are back to what they are good at, and what they truly believe.
John // July 13, 2009 at 8:58 AM
Adrian Hinds // July 13, 2009 at 8:27 am
John we need ITAL no question about it. It is also true that some WHITE BAJANS BELIEVE THAT BLACK PEOPLE CANNOT MANAGE A THING. EQUALLY TRUE IS THE CURRENT ACTIVITY OF SOME WHITE BAJANS TO DISCREDIT BARBADOS INTERNATIONALY IN SUCH AWAY THAT ALL LOOK BAD EXCEPT THEMSELVES. The Youtube video that started this thread is yet another in several such attempts.
It’s not uncanny if todays observations are relevant to todays attitudes that have not change much in 20 years.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++
Agree, there are some ignorant “white” people and some ignorant “black” people ….. all of whom also qualify as ignorant people.
But there are also a whole set of people who can offset that ignorance and who must not keep quiet.
I don’t know what the motives are behind the video but I am prepared to accept that it was an attempt to make the point that actions speak louder than words, … clearly you are not so inclined.
Livinginbarbados // July 13, 2009 at 9:05 AM
To those who say that the video is an attempt by white people (some Bajans) to discredit black Bajans, and make themselves look good. Take the simple solution, which those white allegedly did. Take a video camera, and a crew of black people down to the boardwalk (or somewhere else where the image you want is appropriately positive). Film it. Post it on YouTube, then send David the link to post on BU. That way, the world will get at least one counter view. Ideally, the black film crew would see the same scenes as the white crew did (though I hear that it is now clear), or wait until a similar seaswell occurs and do their counter film.
If you believe that ‘the man’ is running you down, why lie there and be run over?
I look forward to seeing the output when I return to Bim later in the week.
Adrian Hinds // July 13, 2009 at 9:05 AM
The Video says “On July 6 friends of the Hastings Rocks Committee organized SOME FRIENDS……”
Do these people not have any black FRIENDS ? Or they do, but did not ask any of them? Maybe they did ask and were turn down?
Adrian Hinds // July 13, 2009 at 9:13 AM
Livinginbarbados // July 13, 2009 at 9:05 am
To those who say that the video is an attempt by white people (some Bajans) to discredit black Bajans, and make themselves look good.
————————————————-
Show me the quote where someone explicitly says that.
@John
The truth is more likely to be that you DO NOT WANT TO KNOW THE INTENT, For you have demonstrated on several occasions a willingness to be quiet and to speak out on things and in a manner that displays a deliberate consistency.
John // July 13, 2009 at 9:14 AM
Adrian
I think I recognise one member of the group and I know his family is of mixed ethnic origins.
I do not know him well enough to comment on how he thinks but I do know the black/white issue dissolves into shades of grey.
Adrian Hinds // July 13, 2009 at 9:23 AM
ha ha ha shades of Grey. Alright John. We are back to where we left this the last time. We know from the new script who the new racist and xenophobes are, and they are not white. The truth who conciders themselve white in the Bajan context may not be so concidered elsewhere, but this doe not necessarily change their views and attitudes.
@LIB:
The answer is Adrian. I had intended for you to be specific. lol!
Adrian Hinds // July 13, 2009 at 9:31 AM
I’ll be back after the audio from the video has been editied to retain only voice comments. I believe a questionable comment was made by one of the boardwalk groupies. If I can get the audio clear enough I will present it to either clear the individual or to give John an opportunity to do what he does best. lol! I gine back to the immigration issue as this bores me, yet somehow I think the two might be related. lol!
Livinginbarbados // July 13, 2009 at 9:33 AM
@John
Everything could dissolve into shades of gray, but some would rather try to put them as ‘black’ and ‘white’. It’s a neat device, because then complaining about race can take the place of dealing with any or many issues. Surely, all that needs to be addressed (and SMB, who have a real concern, clearly do that) is whether the sort of problem shown exists. If it does, who can be brought to book to help address it. It the public agency charged to do it will not/cannot, then see if some volunteers (of any hue) can be encouraged to deal with the problems, once/several times.
Instead of reading this is what we will do, I read “do-be-do-be-do”. Whistling in the wind is a great pastime.
I know that there are blacks in Bim (not all Bajans, mind you) who have major environmental interests and do a lot to keep the filth and trash and dereliction at bay. Again, they are not invisible or mysterious folk.
John // July 13, 2009 at 9:34 AM
Adrian
You were one of the apologist that tried everything to diminish the racist actions of Goodridge and his son against little boy up in Highgate gardens.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++
I figure the “little boy” is lucky he is not dead.
At school everybody knew that to insult a boy’s mother was a flogging offence.
Some boys may not mind or they choose to do nothing but the reason I think the unconditional flogging was imposed, besides being for a pretty heinous act, was because other boys, weak or strong, would naturally seek to defend their mother and do so by whatever means necessary.
The results in a controlled environment could be unpredictable perhaps even catastrophic.
The circumstances at Highgate as I understood/understand them were that son and grandson received a call from a distraught mother/grandmother in the middle of the night about an intruder trying to break in.
The police were also called.
The son/grandson arrived first.
The “little boy” pulled a weapon on the grandson, … the son of the son.
The son had a gun which he discharged a warning shot.
Had the police arrived first, the whole issue of “little boy”, son/grandson would have been a moot one because the “little boy” would be dead.
Any position I took then and take now was based on what I understood to have been the case.
I did not then nor do I now see any racist overtones, …. for which I make no apology.
…. and I understand that the “little boy” is no “little boy”!!
John // July 13, 2009 at 9:36 AM
…. I saw Seth in at Carter’s Saturday morning, or at least it looked like him.
Adrian Hinds // July 13, 2009 at 9:40 AM
Livinginbarbados // July 13, 2009 at 9:33 am
@John
Everything could dissolve into shades of gray, but some would rather try to put them as ‘black’ and ‘white’. It’s a neat device, because then complaining about race can take the place of dealing with any or many issues. Surely, all that needs to be addressed (and SMB, who have a real concern, clearly do that) is whether the sort of problem shown exists. If it does, who can be brought to book to help address it. It the public agency charged to do it will not/cannot, then see if some volunteers (of any hue) can be encouraged to deal with the problems, once/several times.
————————————————
Were you not reminded of this when you penned your response to Richard Hoad a couple weeks ago? Wuh I never thought you had realize the pigmenation of your skin until you made mention of it then.
Brer Fox // July 13, 2009 at 9:40 AM
@199
“However, as you’ll know, my experience has been of the British as a consequence of which, if I had my way, I would n’t let a single one of them into Bim, to retire!!”
*******
I have been following your comments on several threads. What a vocabulary you have! It seems that you have had a torrid time at the hands or feet or otherwise of those not so chummy Brits. Do share.]
“However, they need n’t worry as it’s their good fortune that, sadly, I’ll never become PM of Bim, to my huge chagrin!”
*******
But, are you thinking of getting some revenge on the British by running for Parliament there? It would be a shame if the world did not get a chance to sample your insights. Why not run for office in Bimshire, though?
Adrian Hinds // July 13, 2009 at 9:43 AM
John I am not surprise that you would get first hand info (white boy’s version) and use it as the gospel truth. lol!
Adrian Hinds // July 13, 2009 at 9:45 AM
John // July 13, 2009 at 9:36 am
…. I saw Seth in at Carter’s Saturday morning, or at least it looked like him.
————————————————
Indeed John. Seth lied back then, look where you have seen him recently.
Anonymous // July 13, 2009 at 10:00 AM
Stand your ground Adrian Hinds. No progress can be made until these white and whitish people leave this island. Simpsonia awaits them where they can show their pioneer spirit and build a new country complete to their liking. We will celebrate you as a true champion of Black Barbados.
Livinginbarbados // July 13, 2009 at 10:04 AM
@AH
“Were you not reminded of this when you penned your response to Richard Hoad a couple weeks ago? Wuh I never thought you had realize the pigmenation of your skin until you made mention of it then.”
Hoad’s argument was predicated on a racial division of economic and political power, therefore race/ethnicity was at the core of his arguments, not incidental.
As I said before, there is a lot of confusion. I know the colour of my skin, and the varied hues of my children and extended family, but we make light (bad pun?) of that by focusing on what kinds of people we really are. We do not use our blackness as a cructh on which to lean or a stick with which to beat. A fool is a fool and a good person is a good person. Little or no prejudgement. You do me bad, and no matter what your colour or ethnicity you are a marked person in my eyes. You do me good, and I respect you and your views more.
Like 199, I lived a long time in the UK and I have been subjected to racism (not much, but some), but also in situations where it could not have made any blessed difference. I was junior, then I became the division head, then the department head, etc. I am black. My staff were always white and all but me in middle management were white. I work with my brain as my best weapon, little else. (Save when I play football, when my feet do the talking :-))
Off to view the Customs House…
X // July 13, 2009 at 10:15 AM
It is a sad state of affairs on this island when the selfless and caring act of a few concerned citizens is viewed with such contempt. These people are only trying to care a social asset that is clearly valued by so many people yet is being neglected by those is charge of its maintenance.
I am ashamed by your racist vitriol and only hope that this is not as commmon a feeling amongst black Barbadians as might be suggested on this blog.
Adrian Hinds // July 13, 2009 at 10:42 AM
Anonymous // July 13, 2009 at 10:00 am
Stand your ground Adrian Hinds. No progress can be made until these white and whitish people leave this island. Simpsonia awaits them where they can show their pioneer spirit and build a new country complete to their liking. We will celebrate you as a true champion of Black Barbados.
————————————————–
Anon my ground is not the same as yours. It matters little to me who or what colour of people come in or leaves Bimshire for whatever reasons. This is for wunnuh who remain to deal with. I am simply calling things as they are to me.
In 1993 when I told Richard Williams the General Manager of Sandy Lane Hotel that I was leaving to reside in Boston US, he attempted to talk me out of it, …he related that racism was a big problem in the US, to which I responded, that classism, elitism, and racism in Barbados would have prepared me well. It has. I seek not to be anyone’s champion, get up off your backside, risk being labeled as xenophobic, racist etc and speak the truth, for your own sakes. Othewise the Johns of Barbados aided and abetted by the LIB’S of Jamaica will continue to bamboozle you and your kind into perpetual submission to whomsoever they intend.
Random name generator // July 13, 2009 at 10:42 AM
Well said X
Adrian Hinds // July 13, 2009 at 10:46 AM
Yes X very well said. ha ha ha lol!
Adrian Hinds // July 13, 2009 at 10:56 AM
LIB said:
Hoad’s argument was predicated on a racial division of economic and political power, therefore race/ethnicity was at the core of his arguments, not incidental.
————————————————
What exactly do you mean? Are you saying that Hoad prefers the status quo and you don’t? What do you understand Hoad to mean? and that you find not to your taste as you said “as a black man”? Maybe we need to reproduce the Hoads Article and your response so that there can be clarity. yes?
because this is very interesting. I happened to agree with Hoad, you didn’t and sought to remind him that you were black, but here in this thread you seek to remind me with John’s help about shades of grey, and not using one’s skin tone as a crutch and stick.
Adrian Hinds // July 13, 2009 at 11:44 AM
YUH KNOW WHEN I SAID THIS!
————
I gine back to the immigration issue as this bores me, yet somehow I think the two might be related. lol!
————–
UH STOOD AND SAID THIS!
————–
Othewise the Johns of Barbados aided and abetted by the LIB’S of Jamaica will continue to bamboozle you and your kind into perpetual submission to whomsoever they intend.
—————-
UH CAN’T HELP BUT THINK THEY ARE RELATED
—————-
Especially when i recall a current Member of parliament and minister of government intimating during the silly season (election campaign) it is time for black enfranchisement or something so.
Now we have to contend with an influx of a people who have demonstrated an inability to get along with people that look like bajans, in their home state. If allowed to stay and their migration continued would this not put off any move to enfranchisment of black Barbadians? ha ha ha ha lol!
I know I know, uh talking madness again. lol!
Anonymous // July 13, 2009 at 11:46 AM
Well well Hinds
what a fraud you are! You wrote:
“It matters little to me who or what colour of people come in or leaves Bimshire for whatever reasons. This is for wunnuh who remain to deal with. I am simply calling things as they are to me.”
so you just running yuh mout from the safety and comfort of the US. A group of people cleaning up the boardwalk and the first AND ONLY thing you saw is white people with an agenda to embarrass black Bajans. Now you want to back peddle and play holier than thou.
Hopi // July 13, 2009 at 11:48 AM
@PDC……….A word to the wise….
[1]…If you are desirous of attaining political office, one thing you can or should do is to evolve from this sham known as democracy. You see, democracy is the tyranny of the minority by the majority and in a democracy the electorate does not actually have a say….they only get to elect the selected.
[2]…..You should always stay out of the gutter. Raise yourself to a higher moral standard. Recently you came across as being very demagogic against a few bloggers, viz…Yardbroom, which I thought was unwarranted. Leave the gutter to Hopi.
As a leader what is your vision for a ‘better’ Barbados?
Since you will eliminate taxation, how will your government collect revenue to develop and maintain the infrastructure of the society?
Will you keep Barbados yoked to regional and international institutions that are not in our national interest?
Where there is blatant ambiguity, you are not in any position to determine what is/isn’t relevant.
I really think that you should done away with the Marxists bs of masses and middle class…the [m] was added to asses to Mask the true intentions of what the ‘power class’ really thought of the ‘underclass.’ So if you are really about representing the people you should stay away from such stratification.
John Da Silva // July 13, 2009 at 12:07 PM
Thank God that people with such racist views (both black and white) are a minority in Barbados. It’s sad that a group of people who enjoy using the boardwalk and go out of their way to clean it, get treated with such disrespect by people who seek to use race as an excuse for every failing in their miserable little lives.
livinginbarbados // July 13, 2009 at 12:09 PM
@David, Adrian Hinds
For those who wish to read what Mr. Hoad wrote in The Lowdown column, I think it was in the week of June 26, they can try to look at the Nation online or a paper copy. I provided a link in another thread, near the time. They can draw their own conclusions and see if they are on board with his view of keeping the post-independence Barbados he seems to like–a view I do not share, based as I read it on a division of Barbados by race and economic/political stations.
However, I am not engaging in that discussion on this thread (and Adrian Hinds has tried to get me to expound again on my views in various threads), but I would be more than happy to discuss Mr. Hoad’s views if Adrian Hinds or David or anyone else wishes to post a piece around the article.
Much as I like some of the interchanges, I am not going overboard to try to do them from a mobile phone.
Anyway, Boston is sunny and who knows when the rain will come back.
Time for dim sum and discussion of the Palestinian issue with an Israeli. That should be fun!
199 // July 13, 2009 at 12:36 PM
Anonymous // July 13, 2009 at 11:46 am
Well well Hinds
what a fraud you are!
*************
‘Anonymous’, at first sight, I thought the pic was taken in England! but then I saw the beach and realised it could n’t be England!
Hopi, what would u replace democracy with which was a fairer system!! – communism?!! LOL!!
Brer, thank you for the compliments! I’d be circumspect about running in Bim because I don’t think sufficient Barbadians, including David, like me!! :)
And, as for Britain, the situ here is even more tortuous with an unacceptable number of Jamaicans, rastas, africans and everybody else to make it other than a climb up Mount Everest!! and, at my age, no thanks!! I’m more worried about Bim and the descending on it of the Jamaicans, Indo Guyanese and de rest uh dem!!
Adrian Hinds // July 13, 2009 at 1:41 PM
am,…. Anon there is no such thing as the “safety and comfort of the US.” Unless you are implying that I would think twice about airing my views as I do without hiding, while in Barbados? It just happens to be were I am located at the moment.
The truth is that the group and I include the videographer, did more than clean a boardwalk. So don’t try to belittle all of their efforts and intent. lol!
ah term videographer, just reminded me that the Indo-guyanese have theirs (Analee Davis) and now some White Bajans in de do. Time fuh some black bajans to pick up LIB advice. Well really to change their subject from the explicit sex scenes and acident victims and start showing blacks in a positive light. Yuh don’t have to wait for naturally occuring events to film, you can stage them like this video and wuh Analee does produce. lol!
Adrian Hinds // July 13, 2009 at 1:48 PM
livinginbarbados // July 13, 2009 at 12:09 pm
@David, Adrian Hinds
For those who wish to read what Mr. Hoad wrote in The Lowdown column, I think it was in the week of June 26, they can try to look at the Nation online or a paper copy. I provided a link in another thread, near the time. They can draw their own conclusions and see if they are on board with his view of keeping the post-independence Barbados he seems to like–a view I do not share, based as I read it on a division of Barbados by race and economic/political stations.
————————————————-
ha ha ha boy when you cornered you winch and wiggle to bad. We don’t only want Hoads article but your specific response to it then, not some after thought that you may since posted. lol!
livinginbarbadob // July 13, 2009 at 1:59 PM
@AH: Seek and ye shall find. If hard to do, then ask David for help. I haven’t posted so many comments. Must away to Boylston St and Apple Store.
Adrian Hinds // July 13, 2009 at 2:22 PM
Come on LIB tell us what you said, to Hoadie AS A BLACK MAN. lol! they were no shades of grey in your statement!
Save Mullins Bay // July 13, 2009 at 2:30 PM
Again, trying to steer the conversation back to the beach and the boardwalk (who knew there was so much anthropology associated with the beach in Barbados) I have another idea for getting the sand removed in a timely fashion. How about utilizing the manpower of Dodds? – http://shar.es/C4WZ -
Ready-Done // July 13, 2009 at 2:30 PM
5) Seriously Reform the Hire Purchase Regime in this country;
That is the best thing pdc ever say
Ready-Done // July 13, 2009 at 2:32 PM
@ Save Mullins Bay or teck labor hours for child support, instead of locking up other wise good men.
David // July 13, 2009 at 2:36 PM
Is the clean-up as a result of the time of the year ie hurricane season? Is it a case of the NCC provisioning clean up to accommodate the season? The previously asked question stands: Is the boardwalk build to adequately stave off the beating of the waves over time?
Adrian Hinds // July 13, 2009 at 2:41 PM
Save Mullins Bay // July 13, 2009 at 2:30 pm
Again, trying to steer the conversation back to the beach and the boardwalk (who knew there was so much anthropology associated with the beach in Barbados) I have another idea for getting the sand removed in a timely fashion. How about utilizing the manpower of Dodds? – http://shar.es/C4WZ -
————————————————–
How interesting coming from you. Wuh happen, cheap guyanese labour has become to expensive in these tough economic times?
@David: Time will tell, however the deposit and removal of sand is another issue. The answer to which is clear.
livinginbarbados // July 13, 2009 at 2:51 PM
@David: Now the w/e is over so one can pick up a phone and pose a few questions of NCC and/or CZMU? Or is it that the love of discourse trumps doing anything? At least if NCC etc give no info someone accuse them of something.
Adrian Hinds // July 13, 2009 at 3:00 PM
Is the state of the boardwalk consistently as the video portrays or is it as someone said on another blog?
Ok, so there was a swell event and a little more sand was deposited than usual and the NCC was not around to clear it up. The important thing here is that it is gathering sand and creating beach like it was suppose to and that is great. The NCC is another headache.
Nostradamus // July 13, 2009 at 3:24 PM
David asked – Is the boardwalk build to adequately stave off the beating of the waves over time?
————————————————–
I was told it definitely is and that includes waves generated by hurricanes.
Jack Bowman // July 13, 2009 at 3:42 PM
@ whoever makes decisions about what you publish on this blog
A quiet word to the wise: you might want to be a little careful, and perhaps do a bit more arse-covering than you’re already doing. The published comment by “199”, when he said that he wouldn’t let a single British person into Barbados, that has gone. But the reply quoting “199” has not gone, so the comment by “199” is still there.
In a country where about half the economy and a huge amount of employment depend on tourism, it might not be a really tremendous idea to willfully and knowingly publish the following comments from ONE SINGLE THREAD on your blog.
Given Jamaican reactions to the possible adverse affects of a single and temporary UK television programme hosted by Sir Trevor McDonald, you might want to reconsider how far you want to let the comments below remain internationally available to, say, Bajan authorities working hard to induce American and Canadian and British tourism.
Before you get to the comments, it’s fascinating to note that one of your most prolific contributors, one whose views appear below, and one whose opinions on race you have published on very many occasions, says this on that very same thread:
Adrian Hinds // July 13, 2009 at 1:41 pm
there is no such thing as the “safety and comfort of the US.” … It just happens to be were [sic] I am located at the moment.
Now that’s interesting.
Here are some other comments on the thread:
199 // July 12, 2009 at 7:50 am
the thing which really irritates me is that these ppl are probably some of the same who have given our people hell over the years at work and now they’ve reached retirement age, have come to live in BIM!! I would want to check their background before letting any of them into there!!
Hopi // July 12, 2009 at 9:52 am
I remember a time when Barbados was truly a clean a beautiful country and it was truly predominantly Black … Well, I hope that whisety continue to build their houses, villas and hotels on the sand, because they are some things that are guaranteed in this life and one of them is that you can’t fight Mother Nature and win.
Adrian Hinds // July 12, 2009 at 9:57 am
No John I will look at the color angle
Anonymous // July 12, 2009 at 11:02 am
Wouldn’t it solve all of Barbados’ problems if all the white and “whitish” people just up and leave and let us sort things out? People here getting tired of having to work hard and getting exploited and only white people enjoying all the sweets … I heard that Kyffin Simpson bought a million acres of land in Guyana … All the white and whitish Bajans can relocate there and build their paradise (if they can) and leave beautiful Barbados to Black people to finally enjoy.
Anonymous // July 12, 2009 at 11:30 am
what wrong with being racist?!
Adrian Hinds // July 13, 2009 at 8:27 am
WHITE BAJANS BELIEVE THAT BLACK PEOPLE CANNOT MANAGE A THING. EQUALLY TRUE IS THE CURRENT ACTIVITY OF SOME WHITE BAJANS TO DISCREDIT BARBADOS INTERNATIONALY IN SUCH AWAY THAT ALL LOOK BAD EXCEPT THEMSELVES.
199 July 13, 2009 [post deleted, oddly and interestingly]
My experience has been of the British as a consequence of which, if I had my way, I wouldn’t let a single one of them into Bim, to retire!!”
Adrian Hinds // July 13, 2009 at 9:43 am
John I am not surprise that you would get first hand info (white boy’s version) and use it as the gospel truth. lol!
Anonymous // July 13, 2009 at 10:00 am
No progress can be made until these white and whitish people leave this island. … We will celebrate you as a true champion of Black Barbados.
Save Mullins Bay // July 13, 2009 at 4:16 PM
@Adrian Hinds
LOL, Adrian, all guns blazing as usual! You must have imbibed the ghost of Samuel Colt the gunsmith from your long walks along the boardwalk of his beloved farm – Colt State Park. We need to get you down on the South Coast Boardwalk for an exorcism. LOL! Oh, btw, by the time you get here the West Coast Boardwalk should be ready too.
Adrian Hinds // July 13, 2009 at 4:40 PM
Save Mullins Bay // July 13, 2009 at 4:16 pm
@Adrian Hinds
LOL, Adrian, all guns blazing as usual! You must have imbibed the ghost of Samuel Colt the gunsmith from your long walks along the boardwalk of his beloved farm – Colt State Park. We need to get you down on the South Coast Boardwalk for an exorcism. LOL! Oh, btw, by the time you get here the West Coast Boardwalk should be ready too.
————————————————–
ha ha ha ha love colt state park. I will not see the boardwalk anytime soon if ever. I’ll continue to enjoy the pics and videos of them.
who is that johnny come late with his scare tactics???? chuspes!
Jack Bowman // July 13, 2009 at 4:50 PM
@Adrian Hinds
Don’t you live in the United States?
There are two answers to this question.
One is Yes. The other is no.
If you absolutely HAVE to say something that isn’t yes or no, could you do your best to make it at least barely literate?
Peace to all of god will. Peace to all except subliterate racist tools
Jack Bowman // July 13, 2009 at 4:56 PM
Oh, Adrian Hinds, I forgot to add your device, the device of all 12-year old American girls (are you a 12 year-old American girl?).
Here it is: “lol!!!”
“lol!!!” That’s the device. It’s so eloquent. It makes you seem so grown-up. It does not in any way make you or your subliterate fans look like American teenagers. Not in any way at all.
Negroman // July 13, 2009 at 4:59 PM
Jack Bowman
Stop nit-picking at the comments made by we the members of the BU family..You are petty and stupid.
Jack Bowman the jack ass you commented on our grammar and try to ridicule & criticize our use of the English language.None of us is an English language expert and this blog is not to demonstrate who has a the greatest command of English Language.It is an opportunity for many of us to express our opinions & feelings on many subject matters.
Jack Bowman the nincompoop You are mighty upset when we Black People have to castigate and tell stinking White People how we feel about them.You get highly offended when your white thrash counterparts taste the wrath of Black People.You & your white thrash family & friends could go and find some place to exterminate you all self.This world will be peaceful with less white thrash people on it.The destruction of this world,all the diseases,all the crime & decadence in this world the stinking white people have a major role in all of it.
Jack Bowman stay over at Barbados Free Press and do not come over here at Barbados Underground & try to dictate to David what should or should not be posted on this blog.
Jack Bowman the pathetic ass you have the gall to come here at BU and make comments.It is stinking you that masterminded Barbados Free Press to remove BU from it’s side bar and you made some of the most awful comments about Barbados underground.
Jack Bowman you & your white thrash family & friends exit this world & leave this world for beautiful Black People to live in.
Adrian Hinds // July 13, 2009 at 5:02 PM
Jackie Bowgirl, so picky! lol!
as a very literate person currently performing the role of a language maven, would you like to correct the following?
“Peace to all of god will.”
lol!
Livinginbarbados // July 13, 2009 at 5:05 PM
@Adrian Hinds
My comments on Richard Hoad’s article on this blog were ABOUT the article. I sent him comments via The Nation and one of his brothers, whom I happen to meet a few days after reading the article. The public comments should still be out in cyber space.
As I wrote above, “Everything COULD dissolve into shades of gray, but some would rather try to put them as ‘black’ and ‘white’.”
Here, for a few days, I am in the relative safety and comfort of the USA (note relative, not absolute), and just back from arguing with a Haitian whether a mixed race American girl looked ‘African’. I said she looked Moroccan. He said she was not African because she was not black. I walked away and will salve my brain with some good Irish beer.
Adrian Hinds // July 13, 2009 at 5:06 PM
But negroman my sister in law is a white woman, and several of my nieces and nephews look more like she and I love them all. Wuh you expect me to do if your banishment were to be carried out? Man stop de over reaching generalizations do! cause I aint gine join you. I love my family too much. lol!
Jack Bowman // July 13, 2009 at 5:07 PM
@David
¿Cómo es que hay tantos racistas en su blog? El gillipollas cómico y racista Hinds siempre me divierte, y el solapollas Hopi es a menudo divertido.
¿Pero por qué has decidido publicar las opiniones infantiles de personas tan obviamente dañados?
Me pregunto. ¿No te preguntas?
Suerte, chico. Lo digo en serio.
Adrian Hinds // July 13, 2009 at 5:12 PM
Livinginbarbados // July 13, 2009 at 5:05 pm
@Adrian Hinds
My comments on Richard Hoad’s article on this blog were ABOUT the article. I sent him comments via The Nation and one of his brothers, whom I happen to meet a few days after reading the article. The public comments should still be out in cyber space.
As I wrote above, “Everything COULD dissolve into shades of gray, but some would rather try to put them as ‘black’ and ‘white’.”
Here, for a few days, I am in the relative safety and comfort of the USA (note relative, not absolute), and just back from arguing with a Haitian whether a mixed race American girl looked ‘African’. I said she looked Moroccan. He said she was not African because she was not black. I walked away and will salve my brain with some good Irish beer.
————————————————-
ha ha ha ha The more I read you the more I relalize we are similar. I love a good argument and so you seem too as well.
…so you felt compel to tell Hoad that “Everything COULD dissolve into shades of gray, but some would rather try to put them as ‘black’ and ‘white’.”
Your SOME is in reference to me and to Hoad? Wuh I don’t recall any such comment in your response to Hoad. You sure?
lol!
Jackie Bowgirl that was fuh you! lol! there! another one for good measure. ha ha
Jack Bowman // July 13, 2009 at 5:14 PM
Sorry, I didn’t mean to call the subliterate Hopi a “solapollas”.
On the contrary, I meant to call the subliterate Hopi a “soplapollas”.
I hope that’s clear.
Adrian Hinds // July 13, 2009 at 5:16 PM
Jack Bowman // July 13, 2009 at 5:07 pm
@David
¿Cómo es que hay tantos racistas en su blog? El gillipollas cómico y racista Hinds siempre me divierte, y el solapollas Hopi es a menudo divertido.
¿Pero por qué has decidido publicar las opiniones infantiles de personas tan obviamente dañados?
Me pregunto. ¿No te preguntas?
————————————————–
Jackie wuh saying above or do you wish your words to be anonymous? ha ha ha don’t be afraid to make further grammar and or spelling errors in English. I wouldn’t comment if you don’t. lol!
Adrian Hinds // July 13, 2009 at 5:22 PM
Jack Bowman // July 13, 2009 at 5:14 pm
Sorry, I didn’t mean to call the subliterate Hopi a “solapollas”.
On the contrary, I meant to call the subliterate Hopi a “soplapollas”.
I hope that’s clear.
————————————————–
But Jackie if you believe there is a serious cause for concern regarding the comments you listed to David that should be censored for fear that they could lead to significant fall out to Barbados, do you think that to Identify the authors of said words as subliterate would gain you any significant seriousness from British tourist to warrant the action you predicted? lol!
Yardbroom // July 13, 2009 at 5:24 PM
@ Jack Bowman
We will never let you tell us what or “how” we should communicate with each other. Uncomfortable with your “inner angst” in the place you have “freely” chosen to reside; you strain on tip-toe constantly a-peeping over the wall, never engaging with the topic but seeking to divert.
Despite all your bluster, you find it impossible to ignore us…that is most telling.
Yardbroom
End
Adrian Hinds // July 13, 2009 at 5:34 PM
ha ha ha maybe he is truly subliterate like me, and so finds my company refreshing. lol!
I have had an extra helping of labels to day. http://www.normangirvan.info/a-caricom-executive-mechanism-pj-patterson/#comment-4731
But I am happy to be of the same opinion has Richard Hoad on the issue of immigration in Barbados. Um is black n’ white fuh me and he. lol!
Jack Bowman // July 13, 2009 at 5:39 PM
@ Negroman
I don’t have time to reply to you in full immediately. I have to do things that will make me money . .. write grammatical sentences, for example. Sorry about that. I will reply to you in full as soon as I have made some money by my ability to write grammatical English and have reasoned thoughts.
In the meantime, you should definitely be my guest and feel free to hit me with the most witty, incisive, best-wrought grammatical abuse that you can muster. If it’s not grown-up and grammatical, I won’t read it. Apart from that, fire away. Be my guest.
Best wishes to you and yours.
Miss Jackie
Jack Bowman // July 13, 2009 at 5:45 PM
@ Hopi
Hopi asks: “When will we learn to do things our way and stop following ‘whitey.’ When will we ever learn to UNLEARN?”
Er … I don’t know. But I’ll make a guess. June 23, 2010. Is that the right answer?
No? Damn!
OK, let me try again: August 2, 2011. Is that right?
I have to know. Is that the right answer?
Caramba Scramba Bambarito // July 13, 2009 at 5:56 PM
Hey, Fat Pig Bowman-Bourne! You love to show off your Spanish and French, don’t you. (“N’est pas” is your favourite).
Well, how’s this for you …..
CALLETE SU BOCA!
Jack Bowman // July 13, 2009 at 5:59 PM
@ Negroman (and @ David, who decides what gets published here)
Quoting the racist known as “Negroman”:
“We Black People have to castigate and tell stinking White People how we feel about them.”
Nice. Keep up the good work. You’re doing grand.
Jack Bowman // July 13, 2009 at 6:11 PM
@ Negroman
What is “white thrash”? You use the term four times while you’re abusing me AND MY FAMILY.
What is “white thrash”? Did you mean, four times, to use the basic English word “trash”?
You might be, demonstrably, a subliterate prick, and you can abuse me in your subliterate manner as much as you want.
But if you call my family “thrash”, you subliterate fool, then we have a very serious problem, and so does the publisher of this blog.
Adrian Hinds // July 13, 2009 at 6:13 PM
Wait Jackie Bowgirl is really Ian Bourne? no way say it aint so Jack,..ie lol!
Adrian Hinds // July 13, 2009 at 6:32 PM
I would assume that negroman knows you, and that Jack Bowman does in fact legally exist as such. If this IS not the case then I don’t know how Negroman could have insulted YOU AND YOUR FAMILY.
Jack Bowman // July 13, 2009 at 6:33 PM
@ “Adrian Hinds”
“Adrian Hinds” asked: “Wait Jackie Bowgirl is really Ian Bourne?”
That’s right. I’m Ian Bourne in Barbados. And who are you in the United States, you comical little subliterate racist dullard?
All best wishes to you and yours.
Hopi // July 13, 2009 at 6:37 PM
@Jackass Bowdown…….I think that’s how you’ll say it in Spanish right? Or como se dice? Now you can call me sophomoric, subliterate, idiotic, comical and so forth, but one thing you can never do is take away my experience and knowledge. Sorry to disappoint ya! And you can patch all your descriptions all over me, I feel no pain.
Neither you nor anyone else can define BU as racist, because to be racist means that you must have certain mechanisms in place and I’ll put my neck out on a limb and say that BU DOES not possess such mechanism. [like I said before we weren't wired like that]. Just go and ask your EUROPEANS how they perfect it!
Another little tidbit for you chico. One of the majors reason why Black folk continue to live in a subordinate position, is because other Blacks who are in certain positions who truly know the agenda of the ‘power elite’ refuse to speak up against it and continue to lead Blacks down the path of utter self-delusion and destruction. These token traitor Blacks continue to hold onto some crazy materialistic illusions that are afforded to them by the same ‘power elite.’ They most likely don’t want the same fate as Malcolm Martin, Marcus, Khalid and all the other Black Men who sacrificed their lives for us. And Hopi could never ever fill their shoes. So don’t expect me to shut up. And another thing I’m not looking for a pat on the back by, neither am I looking for friendship with the enemy.
Now you too can put your tail between your blubber legs and run on back over to your side of the tracks.
Adios chico!
Hopi // July 13, 2009 at 6:54 PM
@ Caramba Scramba Bambarito……..
Are you fa real. Jackie is really my pandejo amigo Bournee? Dios Mios! I thought that he was thru with BU. I guess Yardbroom is correct..he is straining on tip-toe and peeping over the wall. Well BU must be doing something right!
@A mi amigo, si tu…..I see ya still talking to yaself @ 5:45 pm…
Anonymous // July 13, 2009 at 7:00 PM
Which side you on Hinds? Our side or whitey’s side? Forget that cop out about your white sister-in-law or how you living in the US. Don’t let Bowman/Bourne (???) frighten you.
Hopi // July 13, 2009 at 7:10 PM
@John Da Silva…….Too bad we can’t say the same for those with the racists programmed technology, biological and financial weaponry who are terrorizing this planet today. Why don’t you pull out ya blanket and wrap yaself up in that?
Mongoose // July 13, 2009 at 7:21 PM
Jack Bowman is not Ian Bourne. Just how gullible are you people?
Jack, keep up the good work. You are like Septic-X for this cesspool.
Jack Bowman // July 13, 2009 at 8:07 PM
@ Yardbroom
Quoting Yardbroom, who was @ me:
“We will never let you tell us what or “how” we should communicate with each other. Uncomfortable with your “inner angst”.
My angst is fine, Yardie. How’s your’s? Still having trouble with basic English prose?
In your assertion, who is “we” and who is “you”?
A thing I’ve noticed: if I have to insure my car, I’ll talk to a woman or man who is not subliterate. If I have to fill the gas tank in my car, the prospects are bright I’ll talk to a charming woman or man who isn’t too bright.
Brightness. Literacy. Paying attention at school. Just like gravity, they’re an absolute BITCH, aren’t they?
In the modern age, it must SUCK to be a subliterate racist moron in a developing country. With those qualifications, you’re screwed forever and so is your family. The inter-generational transmission of poverty is a measurable thing. Racists always lose.
Sorry about that.
All best wishes to you and yours,
Jackie
BOARDWALK SWEEPER // July 13, 2009 at 8:32 PM
It is sad when stupid racial bigotry clouds the judgement and perception of certain individuals who are obviously unable to accept the fact that ordinary citizens of this country can provide a public service and goodwill on a facility like the boardwalk which is enjoyed by many persons irrespective of race, colour or creed
Adrian Hinds // July 13, 2009 at 8:43 PM
Ian are you working on reducing your weight? How long do you think you can carry all that fat around without suffering from it’s affects? I was 259 lbs and boy I had to do something about. lol!
Adrian Hinds // July 13, 2009 at 8:46 PM
BOARDWALK SWEEPER // July 13, 2009 at 8:32 pm
It is sad when stupid racial bigotry clouds the judgement and perception of certain individuals who are obviously unable to accept the fact that ordinary citizens of this country can provide a public service and goodwill on a facility like the boardwalk which is enjoyed by many persons irrespective of race, colour or creed
————————————————–
It is yet to be a best practice for “ordinary citizens” to perform their volunteer work with a videographer present, and to then agree to it being publish in such a manner and in place as to intend maximum embarressment to the very place you claim to love. Not ordinary at all.
David // July 13, 2009 at 8:52 PM
One learning from the exchanges above leads us to conclude that there is a latent tension which underpins race relations in Barbados. Then again we know from a UN Report filed in 2005 crypto-racism was suggested. Here is a snippet from the report:
BU has been accused of being homophobic, xenophobic, government mouthpiece, bigoted, racist and the list gets longer. The epithetical display on this blog should be instructive.
A video was posted and several interpretations have been formed, who is right or who is wrong?
Adrian Hinds // July 13, 2009 at 8:52 PM
Anonymous // July 13, 2009 at 7:00 pm
Which side you on Hinds? Our side or whitey’s side? Forget that cop out about your white sister-in-law or how you living in the US. Don’t let Bowman/Bourne (???) frighten you.
————————————————-
I am my side ha ha ha but seriously though Anon. I don’t know Jack Bowman and Ian Bourne is more likely to evoke laughter than to scare anyone. lol!
Hopi // July 13, 2009 at 8:55 PM
Racists always lose? Really? So pray tell how did the racists, their ancestors and descendAnts get to be so filthy stinking rich? How did they get to dominate this planet today with all their filth? By hard got damn slavery or by lying, thievery and wholescale slaughter?
Who the hell are you to determine whether or not a gas attendant is not bright? Because they are not in your league? These are just the kind of people that you would love to see on this blog and occupying the lower sphere in Barbados. Doesn’t that make you happy to know that you are ‘BRIGHTER’ than them? That you can look down on them? The inter-generational transmission of other peoples wealth is ALSO a measurable thing. Ain’t it? Ya laughing ya arse all the way to the bank, aren’t ya? Now ain’t that a BYTCH?
‘Ordinary citizens of this country can provide a service and goodwill.’ Now ain’t that a load of shite! If they want to provide service and goodwill BARBADOS is not the place. All over this planet they have polluted, whether directly or indirectly, they benefitted. Let them go and clean up the blood, bodies, nuclear waste, diseases and all other shite that they dish out on this planet so that they can retire in the SUN and still have their coffers overflowing with blood investments.
Where is ‘global warming’ when you need it?
Adrian Hinds // July 13, 2009 at 9:25 PM
David you do notice who is very quick to label that which they do not like as racist. I think they have worn out the label and can now viewed as the boys who cried wolf way to many time.
I would said this in 2006 when Owen Arthur was accuse of being Racist for using the workd negrocrat.
We cannot address the issue of crypto racism that is alleged to be plaguing Barbados if we find racist intent in the use of a descriptive word that points to the very attitudes that leads to this crypto racism.
Pat // July 13, 2009 at 9:51 PM
@Boardwalk Sweeper
If this was such a good deed and public service and goodwill, why the video on U-tube? Where is the public service and goodwill in that? Is that not self agrandisement? Why bring along a camcorder? The best deeds are those that are done without publicity.
Maybe these do gooders had ulterior motives? You are educated and literate, please tell us subliterates, we dont understand anything.
Pat // July 13, 2009 at 10:05 PM
@ Jack Bowman
You can say whatever you want. We dont care. The views expressed on this blog are a reflection of the larger society. Even you, yourself, have proven with your perfect grammar, to be no smarter than the rear end of a donkey – an ass’s ass.
You are on permanent ignore!
Mongoose // July 13, 2009 at 10:22 PM
Oh Dear! Oh Horrors! Pat has you on ignore! Jack, life simply won’t be worth living anymore.
Anonymous // July 13, 2009 at 10:54 PM
meanwhile…..the boardwalk full up wid sand again
Adrian Hinds // July 13, 2009 at 11:07 PM
Anonymous // July 13, 2009 at 10:54 pm
meanwhile…..the boardwalk full up wid sand again
———————————-
Does this mean yet another youtube video?
John Da Silva // July 13, 2009 at 11:21 PM
The next sand cleaning effort on the Boardwalk is on Sunday, July 19, at 5:30pm on the headland by the Caribee headland. I suggest that everyone who thinks that there is some sinister racist overtones to what is going on to turn up and judge for themselves (and remember to bring a broom and shovel).
There is a group on Facebook. Just search for Barbados Boardwalk.
John // July 13, 2009 at 11:56 PM
One thing is sure, Youtube is going to keep businesses and authorities on tenterhooks and will probably promote better service.
Last week I came across this protest against luggage handling by United Airlines in the US.
United is using it as a training video for its employees.
It is a standard which will be hard to surpass by videographers.
199 // July 14, 2009 at 1:45 AM
BOARDWALK SWEEPER // July 13, 2009 at 8:32 pm
It is sad when stupid racial bigotry clouds the judgement and perception of certain individuals who are obviously unable to accept the fact that ordinary citizens of this country can provide a public service and goodwill on a facility like the boardwalk which is enjoyed by many persons irrespective of race, colour or creed.
**********
Oh, and who are the progenitors of racial bigotry! It certainly was n’t us who were the slave-masters and still regard each and every one of us in your own country as a mugger, rapist or murderer!! My attitude is a reaction to YOUR, racism!
199 // July 14, 2009 at 1:57 AM
Sadly, if we did something like that, in the UK, they’d inevitably think, “we must be up to something”!! And who are bigger crooks in the UK, than white men, themselves!!
Anyhow, I don’t entirely blame them! As you know (or should do) we have cancer in our midst, who have turned our (West Indians’) reputation to *hit, in the UK! But, that’s another matter which, I’m sure, you’d rather pretend did n’t exist!!
199 // July 14, 2009 at 2:00 AM
Furthermore, they’d want to claim we could n’t do it properly, because we’re “not intelligent enough”!! And, then, ‘Boardwalk Sweeper’, has the audacity to accuse US, of racism!! I’d like to cut his nuts off!!
199 // July 14, 2009 at 2:02 AM
I hope I’ve given you a glimpse of life in the modern-day, ‘Motherland’!
LOL!!
Anonymous // July 14, 2009 at 3:13 AM
@199
You just seem to be making a load of sweeping generalizations, mate, and no one should take them seriously. You mean everybody in England thinks that Sir Trevor MacDonald is a rapist and mugger, etc.? Or, is he an exception? Give us something real, not this fish and chips all in a bag.
Who wants to claim “we could n’t do it properly, because we’re “not intelligent enough”!! “? What do you do for a living that would prove to THEM otherwise?
These comments are insulting our intelligence, mate.
livinginbarbados // July 14, 2009 at 3:53 AM
@Pat
“If this was such a good deed and public service and goodwill, why the video on U-tube? Where is the public service and goodwill in that?” [It's called 'new technology' and is all the rage, apparently. It has replaced the steam radio. It may also help others to see what was wrong and how to fix it? I saw a video of a policeman beating up a motorist the other day. I wish I hadn't so that the policeman could get away.]
“Is that not self agrandisement?” [No more than making comments on a blog, I imagine.]
“Why bring along a camcorder?” [Written notes are not as easy to share? Still pictures are there, too, if you care to look on the Facebook page, with dates and times. Quite a little diary, really.]
“The best deeds are those that are done without publicity.”[Ok. So when we have any publicity we need to think this is a less than best deed? That will save me watching all those news reports about war and carnage or starvation r natural disasters. Better still, when I see a politician or police officer in front of an incident scene I should know that this is no best deed. Glad to know that, as I had suspicions about the camera crew at Long Beach, with Mr. Sealy. But now I have to figure out what David Thompson was doing calling a press conference in Georgetown. I'm getting confused again.]
“Maybe these do gooders had ulterior motives?” [Maybe they cared? The ulterior motive could be to not have sand where sand should not be? I think you need to pay a visit to some of the drainage gulleys, not just by the beach, but around the island. Some are veritable garbage dumps, but I dare not share the pictures, I guess. Not that anyone need worry about heavy rains and hurricanes hitting Bimshire.]
Yardbroom // July 14, 2009 at 4:57 AM
Jack Bowman July 13, 2009 at 8:07pm
@ Yardbroom
Quoting Yardbroom, who was @me
“We will never let you tell us what or “how” we should communicate with each other. Uncomfortable with your “inner angst”.
“My angst is fine, Yardie. How’s your’s?
Still having trouble with basic English prose?
In your assertion, who is we” and who is “you”?”
You asked so I will inform you.
“We” in context is subliminal I never expected you to understand. However, just for you:
The plural pronoun the writer (me) and another person or other people.
“You” a pronoun the person being addressed Jack Bowman, very simple.
Now that nonsense is out of the way, let’s discuss what matters on the blog.
I remember the last time you contributed and left in a huff trailing insults in your wake; vowing never to be back, now you are back to give us homilies such as:
Jack Bowman July 13, 2009 at 6:11pm
@ Negroman
“What is “white trash”? you use the term four times while you’re abusing me AND My Family.
What is “white thrash”? Did you mean[ ] four times, to use the basic English word “trash”?
You might be, demonstrably, a subliterate prick, and you can abuse me in your subliterate manner as much as you want.
But if you call my family “thrash” you subliterate fool, then we have a very serious problem, and so does the publisher of this blog”.
Your angst is not fine, you are making a fool of yourself and thus subjecting you and yours – of which I am sure you care – to ridicule.
It is so sad to see someone disintergrate mentally before one’s eyes, what inner demons possess you?…do not bother with a reply it does not matter that much.
There is more to proper Education than “words”; one should always know how to behave.
“T is education forms the common mind,
Just as the twig is bent, the tree’s inclined”.
Pope
livinginbarbados // July 14, 2009 at 6:02 AM
@Pat
On the whole matter of filming or photographing good deeds, I would like your help in interpreting the picture seen in The Advocate recently of children planting trees in association with the 4H Foundation, see http://www.barbadosadvocate.com/newsitem.asp?more=local&NewsID=4700.
I know there is an ulterior motive but just can’t put my finger on it.
livinginbarbados // July 14, 2009 at 6:08 AM
I see that in today’s Advocate (page 14) Nicholas Cox’s tune on the boardwalk has changed since seeing the clean-up video, and he has the temerity to mention that the matter of inadequate maintenance is a concern for a range of government buildings. I hope that some of the other commentators here will get onto the paper quickly and set them straight about what is going on. They all seem to be in on the plot!
David // July 14, 2009 at 6:21 AM
@LIB
Did not get a chance to visit the Facebook, did the group indicate if they wrote to the relevant government ministry before filming?
livinginbarbados // July 14, 2009 at 6:32 AM
@David
Have not seen mention of that, but would not have expected it either. The group’s categorized as fitness and exercise. The administrators are listed and am sure would love to give you more info. Gazzillions of photos taken over the past 7 months to look at. I did not see them all.
They flag the next clean up event, to which a commentator above issued an invitation: Sunday July 19th. at 5:30 p.m., Caribee headland.
Be there or …
David // July 14, 2009 at 6:48 AM
@LIB
From your response would we be correct in thinking our question has no relevance?
Mongoose // July 14, 2009 at 7:02 AM
Yardbroom, carry your sanctimonious ass.
Jack making a fool of himself what? Jack subjecting himself and family to ridicule what? Jack has cleanly and concisely with wit and intelligence made every last one of you racist bigots look like fools and ridiculed YOU and YOURS to the core.
The best you can do, Yardbroom, when confronted with someone of superior knowledge and intellect, is to suggest some form of mental failing? This is the best you can do? This is the tactic of someone faced unable to deal with the truth. Yardbroom, look in the mirror and see a self-righteous, pompous little man who thinks far too highly of himself.
By the way, you do not speak for me and I daresay a few others, when you tell Jack not to bother to reply because his reply would be of no consequence. Begging your pardon, Sir, but you would be dead wrong.
Random name generator // July 14, 2009 at 7:21 AM
Ad hominem attacks are usually the most flawed and weakest way to attack an idea, yet they remain ever popular in popular discourse.
Personally I would like to see the BU introduce an anti – ad hominem comment policy but I suspect that would create far to much work for our host.
Sir Bentwood Dick // July 14, 2009 at 7:28 AM
Bajans go to ‘Simsonsia’?
When they already have another place that they desire?
Y’all and I both know, that if the US Go’ment had a couple of people at the top a Broad Street, wid paper for a list and the offer of immediate immigrant visas, bajans would flock in de line.
How many wud be leff in Bridgetown.
Ten?
LOL
Yardbroom // July 14, 2009 at 7:38 AM
Mongoose or is it Jack Bowman this time? I have read your words of wisdom no personal attacks from me; I never play in the “gutter”.
Yardbroom
livinginbarbados // July 14, 2009 at 7:43 AM
@David
The relevance of your question is for you to determine. If you have/had an expectation that is/had unfulfilled then you need to take there where you wish. If reports of NCC getting a clean up crew to the spot ASAP after the video are true then the message might have been well transmitted, rather than it sitting unopened on some bureaucrat’s table.
More generally, one can work with certain presumptions and clearly people do in Bim judging by the way that a lot of issues to do with government are not placed at its/their door directly but laid out, say, on call-in radio. I’ve commented elsewhere about a possible failing in local representative politics, where people’s voices seem to go unheard too much here by those in power.
David // July 14, 2009 at 7:52 AM
Expected your response LIB.
@Sir Benwood
Is it not true several teachers who took up the offer to teach in Kentucky and New York returned home citing unsatisfied expectations?
@all
It is our intention to leave the comments above exposed for ALL to read, perhaps after time the reason will be grasped by some.
Mongoose // July 14, 2009 at 8:07 AM
Yardbroom, is it so difficult for you to believe that there are many people who share Jack’s views, that you must resort to not even giving others the opportunity to air their views, even those in support of Jack? I am not Jack Bowman, nor am I Ian Bourne.
Too late to extract yourself from the gutter. You have already gone there.
livinginbarbados // July 14, 2009 at 8:14 AM
@David
Would not wish to disappoint. Remember I suggested that you contactd NCC to get some feedback? Do I take it they are due to get back to you or you are still due to get to them? There are usually good reasons why people lose faith in institutions: sometimes it’s the people you have to deal with, sometimes how it works, sometimes both.
Anonymous // July 14, 2009 at 8:24 AM
David
I hope you have noted that in either this thread or another one the profanities (f***k) that was used by jack bowman.
He has absolutely no shame.
Obviously he is trying to stir up strife on this site so he can run back to BFP and say:’see I told you so!’
BFP is like a ghost town,very few hits and only a few commenters like the regulars,pied piper,hants,jack bowman and the like.
Yet BFP is boasting about 6 million visitors.
It really is sad to see a site that could have been used to do so much good,just focusing on destroying the government.
Well the people have spoken and they have left that site in droves.
livinginbarbados // July 14, 2009 at 8:30 AM
@Anonymous,
To add to my list of international profanities, would you fill in for me the *** (3 asterisks)? This may be a new one. Thanks much.
David // July 14, 2009 at 8:31 AM
@LIB
Our question stands.
Was any attempt made by the Facebook group to contact NCC?
Random name generator // July 14, 2009 at 8:39 AM
@David its seems that LIB has indicated that he does not know.
I imagine that someone in the group may have contacted the NCC and complained first.
But how is it relevant that they have contacted the NCC before filming the video? Is that they way to get people to do a job they should be doing anyway? phone and threaten to make videos?
Not to mention the possibility that such a warning could allow an organisation to go to a court to get an injunction.
I think more people in Barbados should make similar videos about all aspects of Barbadian life they find unsatisfactory.
We might get something done and make Barbados a better place, rather than crouching denial and inertia.
Negroman // July 14, 2009 at 8:56 AM
Jack Bowman,Ian Bourne or who ever you are carry your ass.
Please don’t worry about my English ability.If my spelling is not as good as yours or my grammar is not the best at the least I am able to make my points and get an”educated jackass” like you to read it and to make a response.
Yes I refer to you & your stinking family as white trash.Tell me what can you do about it.I challenge you put me in court or come with any other challenge or challenges.
Jack Bowman or Ian Bourne carry your ass and go & f–k yourself you smelly,overweight scum bag.
Sargeant // July 14, 2009 at 9:20 AM
I said my piece about this subject earlier and resisted reentering the fray now that it has gone from the sublime to the ridiculous; however the suggestion that a phone call by the average citizen to NCC or any other Gov’t department would elicit a surge of activity to correct the problem is laughable.
These Depts. only respond to negative newspaper stories or calls to phone in shows which are so outrageous that they cannot be ignored.
Adrian Hinds // July 14, 2009 at 9:24 AM
I have made the point that many people including the US and British military perform cleanup jobs in Barbados and however it is done and advertise, one does not get the sense of anger, willingness to embarrass, or to indict the entire island or it’s government for the mess they had to clean up. All these things were present in that video. I don’t know of many people who will remain appreciative of a good deed received grudgingly, or with public embarrassment.
BTW tell de fella wid de blue and white arm hole shirt who was picking up rocks to keep his negative comments to himself. lol!
David // July 14, 2009 at 9:31 AM
Maybe we can direct our tired question to John Dasilva who seems to be one of the people doing a civic duty ie boardwalk clean up.
Was the NCC told about the issue in any way, formal or informal?
Livinginbarbados // July 14, 2009 at 9:32 AM
@Sargeant
“These Depts. only respond to negative newspaper stories or calls to phone in shows which are so outrageous that they cannot be ignored.” [So a call seems likely to be a waste of time as far as action is concerned, but an 'embarrassing' piece of publicity should work? Hail the friends of Barbados Broadwalk?]
Livinginbarbados // July 14, 2009 at 9:35 AM
@AH
“many people including the US and British military perform cleanup jobs in Barbados and however it is done and advertise, one does not get the sense of anger, willingness to embarrass, or to indict the entire island or it’s government for the mess they had to clean up” [But, it would be very out of place for such agencies to do such negative-sounding things. Even the British troops, though under the Queen's command, need to show deferrence to the local administration. The US has its channels for voicing its criticism at a higher level than through its 'clean up crews'. As PM Thompson would no doubt say, anyway, why are these foreign people interfering in domestic issues? No cake and eating too, please.]
Beacon Hill beckons…
Anonymous // July 14, 2009 at 9:38 AM
Bent Dickie dear,
I agree that the US is the destination of choice for most Bajans (just ask Adrian Hinds) but for white Bajans a new world awaits, Simpsonia!! In fact should they take up the pioneer spirit and join with their Afrikaner brethren it is possible that they could build a super country in the south of Guyana. They could get it right this time and have a country without Black or Indian people to confuse them and blame them for all their (Black) misfortunes. The only problem as I see it would be the need for high tech border control to keep out all the Black and Indian migrants from the failed states around them.
On reflection this could be the solution to all our problems: Simpsonsia for all the whites in the West Indies, Essequibo for the Indians, Demerara, Trinidad, Barbados and the Eastern Caribbean islands for the Blacks. We could then live in peace … apart.
Livinginbarbados // July 14, 2009 at 9:40 AM
@David,
If John Da Silva does not reply, just go to Facebook and send the group a message. For the good of many you may want to become a ‘friend’ so that all the updates could be streamed/fed to BU.
That’s it. I’m suggestion-ed out for the morning.
Duppy Lizard // July 14, 2009 at 9:57 AM
Such racist crap! Haven’t visited this site in weeks and I see things haven’t changed.
@199 if you are so unhappy in the UK, go to Africa, see if your “brothers and sisters” there treat you any differently.
To all the other racist yahoos (hopi, negroman etc) get a life.
David // July 14, 2009 at 9:59 AM
@LIB
We don’t have the time to navigate Facebook. Additionally given the prominence of the local blogs which in the main target local audience it might be a worthy approach if the blogs are solicited to offer support to causes such as this one. Doesnt Facebook require membership and there is limited to a captive audience? BU depends on the family to support the effort, the BU household has so many hands to go around.
John // July 14, 2009 at 10:00 AM
livinginbarbados // July 14, 2009 at 6:02 am
@Pat
On the whole matter of filming or photographing good deeds, I would like your help in interpreting the picture seen in The Advocate recently of children planting trees in association with the 4H Foundation, see http://www.barbadosadvocate.com/newsitem.asp?more=local&NewsID=4700.
I know there is an ulterior motive but just can’t put my finger on it.
++++++++++++++++++++
Good one.
X // July 14, 2009 at 10:03 AM
Anonymous sounds like a would-be Hitler. For your information I live here in Barbados quite peacefully amongst my white and black neighbours, and yes, also the indo-guyanese.
These vile racist comments are really getting out of hand David – is its tacit approval? Say it ain’t so.
Thank goodness for a man like Dennis Jones who brings reason to the discussion.
Random name generator // July 14, 2009 at 10:08 AM
@David- the “open” atmosphere, with name calling etc that you foster on the blog might not suit everyone. It would unreasonable be assume that everyone should come to you.
Judging from the comments about this blog discussion on the facebook group I think they find the environment here less than welcoming.
Which given the racial attack by some is hardly surprising.
livinginbarbados // July 14, 2009 at 10:13 AM
I do like the label ‘reasonable’ :-) May I suggest a post dedicated to racial slurs, so that all the venting can be done there? If that does not appeal to those who want those sentiments aired there only, the may I suggest some radio buttons with prepared slurs from which commentators may choose? That would save some effort while I hope not lose true feelings. America really is a place for seeing the world anew–not better, necessarily.
M
Adrian Hinds // July 14, 2009 at 10:17 AM
@duppy lizard:
Make it a year before your next visit to BU
@LIB
The 4H seem happy and willing to do their thing. After all they could have lamented the removal trees down at paradise, or the ackee tree that cost 12k to be removed. My point is doing a good deed with obvious bad intentions removes the good from the deed.
@X
In other words LIB just happen to be saying the things you want to hear. You wouldn’t know what is racist if it was up close and personal.
@Anon:
Yes the US may be destination of choice for BLACK Barbadians. In 1976 or there abouts wasn’t Australia and New Zealand the destination of choice for WHITE BAJANS?
Adrian Hinds // July 14, 2009 at 10:34 AM
A WHITE BAJAN SAID THE FOLLOWING: and some
[Barbados has evolved over the years into a stable, peaceful society - majority Blacks who control the Government, professions, workforce; a few thousand Whites who get blamed for most things, run businesses, support political parties; sundry Indian and other traders who keep to themselves and make a lot of money.
We like it so. We especially don't want to import ethnic conflict as seen in Trinidad, Guyana and elsewhere.]
[The black Barbadian nation has been conquered by stopping the transfer of values, including thrift and hard work, from the older generation to the present. ]
[The black Barbadian agricultural or construction worker never saw where he would eventually become a manager or owner, despite knowing those trades backwards.]
Now tell me why as a BLACK MAN this should not resonate to me, as an set of excuses for the maintenance of economic control in the hands of a local white and Indian minority? Where Political power therefore remains hostage to economic aspects? I think this is really a disturbing argument that fosters the status quo, with no evident intent to see the reins of economic power shift.
ha ha ha ha lol!
Sargeant // July 14, 2009 at 10:36 AM
LIB
Seeing the thread is already disrupted and since you are all for “Kumbaya” what did the taxi driver’s ethnicity have to do with his behaviour? For a moment I thought you were part Turkish but isn’t that stereotyping?
Just Asking
John // July 14, 2009 at 10:37 AM
Adrian Hinds // July 14, 2009 at 10:17 am
@Anon:
Yes the US may be destination of choice for BLACK Barbadians. In 1976 or there abouts wasn’t Australia and New Zealand the destination of choice for WHITE BAJANS?
++++++++++++++++++++++++
“Patsy” Springer’s comments in Parliament appeared on 2nd December 1975 and according to you, “white” Bajans went to Australia and New Zealand in 1976.
Do you know if it was January or February 1976?!!
Is this coincidental??
Anonymous // July 14, 2009 at 10:40 AM
You want to know the sad thing….
If this had happened under a BLP government, Adrian Hinds wouldn’t see the colour of the people in the viedo at all. It would all be about how the BLP government was failing the people by not maintaining the boardwalk and how they were inept and couldn’t even keep sand shoveled of of it. And then he’d rattle on about how the Minister should be taken down there to see this shameful lack of action by his govt. etc. etc. etc.
BUT……
There’s a DLP government in charge……
Nope just some white people trying to make trouble.
Adrian Hinds // July 14, 2009 at 10:42 AM
@John
I asked a question? Did they not go? Was it a lie? correct me please.
Random name generator // July 14, 2009 at 10:43 AM
@AH
What has that statement, that is anonymous attributed to a white person, got to do with this thread?
It does present some insight about your feelings toward white people, but making generalisation about the white population in general is a inherently racist act.
Now if you had conducted a poll of white people on the island and come up with some determination based on a reasonable population sample that would be different.
Many white people, and many black people, and many Indian people have said many things. Stamens of individual should not be used to judge groups unless, of course, the individual is representing them in some official capacity.
As yet I am unaware of there being a white representative from the local white community.
livinginbarbados // July 14, 2009 at 10:46 AM
@Sargeant: I should have added that my luggage has Azeri motifs on it, from working there. No love lost between Azeris and Armenians…
Adrian Hinds // July 14, 2009 at 10:53 AM
Anonymous // July 14, 2009 at 10:40 am
You want to know the sad thing….
If this had happened under a BLP government, Adrian Hinds wouldn’t see the colour of the people in the viedo at all.
————————————————–
Am anon there is to my mind a difference between “white people” and “white bajans” the two are not the same. lol!
But what you are saying above is not true. Take a Visit to Barbadoslabourparty.wordpress.com, and you will see from it’s inception that I was for the BLP. So much so that Willie Duguid asked if I would work with him in his parliamentary efforts. I refused with the words that I cannot be a man and party member at the same time. I was really upset with the way Mascoll was treated in the DLP, and made that known. Anyway my support for the BLP continued and I was the frequent target of many attacks from WIV and other DLP diehards. My change in position came when Mia said the Blogs need to be regulated. I never did like the woman, but was willing to overlook that, until she opened her big mouth about the Blogs. From them on it became impossible for me to seperate her from the BLP and my support went further south. But I will only pick a party during the silly season. After that may who so ever wins, they will become MY GOVERNMENT, and so it is with this current one. This as been my approach for as long as I have been following politics. But I sense you know me better than myself. So tell where I am wrong. lol!
Sargeant // July 14, 2009 at 10:55 AM
LIB
Just goes to show how easily one can get caught up in ethnic conflicts.. May I suggest that you don’t place any Bajan motifs on luggage if you go to Guyana :-)
Duppy Lizard // July 14, 2009 at 10:57 AM
@ Adrian Hinds – I will visit whenever I so choose. I don’t need you to tell me what I can or can’t do.
Do I make myself clear?
X // July 14, 2009 at 10:58 AM
Well this blog is perhaps not up close given that it resides on distant internet servers; it certainly isn’t personal given the anonimity.
But I would rekon that I can recognise many of the vicious attacks here as being rooted in racism. A deep, pervasive racism that is no longer the domain of old white people, but is now also held firmly by blacks such as yourself.
I only hope that you are a bitter old man and that my young friends and countrymen, the future of Barbados, both black and white share a more progressive view of the future of this island.
Emancipate yourself from your mental slavery and try to think about how things could be in this island if people pulled together to hold the Government and it’s agencies accountable for their responsibilities. Such as was the intent of this video.
I somehow thought that the Barbadian blog movement was about this. But maybe I am naive and it is instead a breeding ground for paranoid attacks and the near-victimisation of a bunch of do-gooders.
Adrian Hinds // July 14, 2009 at 11:04 AM
Random name generator // July 14, 2009 at 10:43 am
@AH
What has that statement, that is anonymous attributed to a white person, got to do with this thread?
It does present some insight about your feelings toward white people, but making generalisation about the white population in general is a inherently racist act.
————————————————-
ha ha ha you guys are so sensitive. First off I did not introduce it as indicative of a group opinion of White Bajans. I clearly stated it was the comments of A WHITE BAJAN, that means one person. So it cannot be racist by your own definition re. generalizations of a group. BTW did you just make that up? lol!
You said:
It does present some insight about your feelings toward white people.]
You lost me with that one. Do you not believe that a WHITE BAJAN WROTE THOSE WORDS?
Adrian Hinds // July 14, 2009 at 11:07 AM
Duppy Lizard // July 14, 2009 at 10:57 am
@ Adrian Hinds – I will visit whenever I so choose. I don’t need you to tell me what I can or can’t do.
Do I make myself clear?
————————————————
Alright Duppy, as white as casper lol!
you get it ? Duppy, clear, Casper the Ghost cartoon? lol!
Adrian Hinds // July 14, 2009 at 11:10 AM
@Random name generator
man why don’t get a handle like X?
So is it my response to the comments of A WHITE BAJAN, that to you demonstrates how I feel about White bajans? and how do you construe those feeling to be? good, bad, indifferent? what? lol!
livinginbarbados // July 14, 2009 at 11:11 AM
@X: I just saw an interesting qoutation that charges women to solve racism. Also in the past days’ NY Times an artile looks at how minorities (incl Children of West Indian migrants) surpass black American children. I’ll try to post the link when I’m back at a computer.
on about overcoming racism during a tour of MA state house. In essence, it says women will be the solution. There is also interesting reading in the recent days’ New York Times about how other minorities surpass black Americans
Adrian Hinds // July 14, 2009 at 11:15 AM
@RNG
Are you also saying that there may not be a lot of support amongst the White Bajan community for the comments i put up and attributed to A WHITE BAJAN?
Adrian Hinds // July 14, 2009 at 11:18 AM
@X
I am 43 and full of life. Is there hope for me? do you see any? lol!
X // July 14, 2009 at 11:21 AM
Whatever the solution, we clearly need much more of it here. I really thought we were beyond much of the sentiment expressed on this blog.
Will look for the NYT article on women because that sounds interesting. Black women in Barbados seem to have acheived more in terms of economic enfranchisement and often bring powerful, yet thoughtful leadership characteristics to play in the business world. Perhaps the next commission on race relations (which seems to be needed) should be entirely staffed by women.
X // July 14, 2009 at 11:21 AM
No I am sorry, I don’t see any hope for people like you.
199 // July 14, 2009 at 11:28 AM
You mean everybody in England thinks that Sir Trevor MacDonald is a rapist and mugger, etc.?
**************
There’re perhaps, half a million or more West Indian men in the UK of which only ONE is Sir Trevor McDonald! That’s the trouble if you’re not him and a West Indian man in the UK, you’re automatically regarded as **it!! which is, precisely, how I hope my people will regard the English in my country!
**************
@199 if you are so unhappy in the UK, go to Africa, see if your “brothers and sisters” there treat you any differently.
*************
Duppy Lizard, if you know, for a fact, that they would n’t then I think you should come out and say so! I have my own views on them!!
As Adrian said, “it took him about five minutes on visiting the UK, to be called a nigger”! I hope that my people will remember this when presented with English people, in Bim!!
Adrian Hinds // July 14, 2009 at 11:29 AM
@X
so I should get my soul saved and repent my ways? :( I trust you have good eyesight???? lol!
Do you have any opinions to share on the comments of A WHITE BAJAN, and my response to them?
click on the link
http://bajan.wordpress.com/2009/07/11/down-by-the-boardwalk-hastings/#comment-94163
199 // July 14, 2009 at 11:30 AM
i.e. also, treat them like **it, the way that they treat us here, and all because of the behaviour of LIB’s people!! It’s no wonder he’s meaningless to me!!
Adrian Hinds // July 14, 2009 at 11:34 AM
@199
As Adrian said, “it took him about five minutes on visiting the UK, to be called a nigger”! I hope that my people will remember this when presented with English people, in Bim!!
————————————————–
ha ha I said I in 2007 I was visiting London for 8 days and was called a nigger once during that time. I never said 5 min. And I do not generalize as result of it. And I do not like it when people refer to a group as MY people. I really don’t. I aint belong tuh a fella. lol!
199 // July 14, 2009 at 11:39 AM
On the subject of BFP: I believe that both they and we are fighting for the same objective of ITAL, the proper implementation of which should resolve many of our problems in Bim!!
Adrian Hinds // July 14, 2009 at 11:40 AM
X // July 14, 2009 at 11:21 am
Perhaps the next commission on race relations (which seems to be needed) should be entirely staffed by women.
————————————————-
But why? are you looking to realize specific outcome?
199 // July 14, 2009 at 11:42 AM
Hi Adrian, sorry for mis-remembering what you said. I see it took a mite longer than 5 minutes, but not much!! Don’t you like to belong to the group known as BARBADIANS?!!
X // July 14, 2009 at 11:45 AM
I think Hoad has a great deal of relvance in much of what he writes and I agree that it should resonate with most Barbadians, both white and black.
However his opinions are tainted by the old eyes through which he views the island. On issues of race, his family and his writing are more progrssive than most, but on issues of economic development he is often mired in the past.
Black people are participating far more economically than when Hoad (or even you) were my age and it improves every day. Why not focus on the progress that has been made with a view to continuing in the future, instead of beating yourself (and me) up with mistakes of the past for which neither of us are responsible?
John // July 14, 2009 at 11:48 AM
Adrian Hinds // July 14, 2009 at 10:42 am
@John
I asked a question? Did they not go? Was it a lie? correct me please.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++
Don’t know.
I grew up in the 60’s and 70’s and remember perhaps 3 “white” families, (shades of grey!!) leaving for Australia and NZ.
Perhaps one of those families could be classed as white, even white hair… whiter than blond, but I have never looked at their genealogy.
Believe the father in that family became Barbados’ Ambassador/High Commissioner to Australia.
I remember because I would have been at school with children of the families and would have noticed when they left.
One family of the three families left in 1965, and the other two in the late 60’s.
One of those families returned.
But I also remember a “black” (shade of grey) family leaving in 1968/69 but that was because the father had a Government post in the UK, and another “white” (shade of grey) family going to the UK for the same reason.
People tell me that in the 70’s white people left for Australia and NZ but I have no recollection of any great number I knew leaving except for the three I remember in the 1960’s.
I suspect that there may have been race talk at the time and Bajans, God bless our souls, talked alot and then did nothing.
I haven’t come across any statistics to support the statement that white families left Barbados in 1976 or thereabouts.
…. but I keep hearing this again and again.
Would be interesting to find out, hence my question to you if there was a coincidence, ….. assuming you knew for a fact.
Next time somebody tells you this ask them to name names and see what happens.
If they can’t, or can only manage a couple, you will know that the stories have been exaggerated ….. remember, this is Barbados!!
livinginbarbados // July 14, 2009 at 11:51 AM
The comments of #199 are so wild and broad. I lived in England 30 years and the black West Indians or other dark immigrants or their offspring who were treated routinely as muggers etc. were indeed such. My grandmother and parents were not. Nor are my cousins. That is not to say that all is love and kisses, either. But these blanket statements are really junk.
199 // July 14, 2009 at 11:54 AM
The guilty always seek to smudge the issue to evade responsibility for their wrongdoing!
Adrian Hinds // July 14, 2009 at 11:57 AM
David is X and LIB using the same ip address. lol!
199 // July 14, 2009 at 11:58 AM
LIB, just a year or two ago I predicted on The Nation’s site that your people would eventually turn the UK, into another Kingston. It took you about a year to nearly achieve the objective. Is it any wonder they think we’re scum and all because of YOUR people!! Why don’t you have a bit of decency and admit it, for a change!!
Adrian Hinds // July 14, 2009 at 12:00 PM
@John
you don’t know and yet you do? trying to sell something you are convinced about? which is it?
@x
instead of beating yourself (and me) up with mistakes of the past for which neither of us are responsible?
HOW AM I DOING THIS??
Anonymous // July 14, 2009 at 12:00 PM
@AH
“David is X and LIB using the same ip address”
I hope not. I am in an Apple store now and was on my mobile. What does X look like?
livinginbarbados // July 14, 2009 at 12:02 PM
The comment by 199 that reads “The guilty always seek to smudge the issue to evade responsibility for their wrongdoing” sounds profound but I’m sure it isn’t.
199 // July 14, 2009 at 12:02 PM
Oh, forgot u don’t know the meaning of that word over there! (in JA)!!
livinginbarbados // July 14, 2009 at 12:04 PM
@AH
“David is X and LIB using the same ip address” [I hope not. As I was on a tour of State House with my daughter, I hope that X was somewhere else.
I just saw a great quote on the Boston Public Library on the need for education to ensure safety and order. A wonderful social lesson.
livinginbarbados // July 14, 2009 at 12:11 PM
@Sargeant
On falling into ethnic conflict and Armenians and Azeris, it was not in my mind when I met the cabbie, and I am not sure it soured our interaction. I had meant to use the term Armenian as a mere adjective for colour (bad pun) and did not put or mean to have associated any invective or adjective with it.
On 4H and enjoying the volunteering, I think the point is being stretched. Many’s the time when one signs up for something and the detail is less than ideal and you cuss a bit (under your breath, out loud), like doing work with geriatrics and slopping out after them (no details in this public place). But, your heart is still in it, and you keep volunteering.
livinginbarbados // July 14, 2009 at 12:16 PM
@Sargeant
I think I will take all national motifs off my luggage and just go back to having “Hello Kitty” and “Smurf” stickers given by my little daughter. Imagine if I had a Jamaican flag and met a 199. Lawd halp me!
Why is the one known as 199 spending so much time ignoring me and talking to me at the same time. That seems schiphrenic? Is it a national condition?
livinginbarbados // July 14, 2009 at 12:16 PM
…schizophrenic…
livinginbarbados // July 14, 2009 at 12:24 PM
@199
“LIB, just a year or two ago I predicted on The Nation’s site that your people would eventually turn the UK, into another Kingston. It took you about a year to nearly achieve the objective. Is it any wonder they think we’re scum and all because of YOUR people!! Why don’t you have a bit of decency and admit it, for a change!!” [I must say that your image of the UK and mine seem miles apart and I wonder if you are just imagining it. In any case, get your MP or local councillor to write to me to corroborate the statements or just leave them on the Underground in a parcel for pickup. I have a good Bajan friend who travels from Bim to London every couple of weeks. I will check if this Armageddon you portray is pure fantasy.
If it's the latter, a good family friend, the clinical psychologist and social commentator (now), Dr. Freddie Hickling, has done a lot of work studying the mental disorder of displaced people, focusing on West Indian migrants to the UK. I could put you in touch with him. He used some methods that the government did not like at first, but have since seen worked wonders. He is occasionally teaching at UWI at Cave Hill and I would love to reconnect with him so that you could become a special study. I don't think he uses hypnosis anymore, but that was always very revealing.]
Good luck. Don’t despair. Help is on its way.
livinginbarbados // July 14, 2009 at 12:27 PM
@AH
“David is X and LIB using the same ip address” [You see, had you taken the T to Copley this morning, that kind of question might not have been posed. Got to say that the visit to Beantown has been refreshing. Anyway, let's fight to have only one 'Anonymous'. David knows the IP addresses and could distinguish them if needed.]
livinginbarbados // July 14, 2009 at 12:32 PM
Here is the NYT article (not the link but the whole text, which I think is easier to deal with). Got to give thanks to Steve Jobs and the Apple Stores:
June 7, 2009
Op-Ed Columnist
Rising Above I.Q.
By NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF
In the mosaic of America, three groups that have been unusually
successful
are Asian-Americans, Jews and West Indian blacks – and in that there may
be
some lessons for the rest of us.
Asian-Americans are renowned – or notorious – for ruining grade curves
in
schools across the land, and as a result they constitute about 20
percent of
students at Harvard College.
As for Jews, they have received about one-third of all Nobel Prizes in
science received by Americans. One survey found that a quarter of Jewish
adults in the United States have earned a graduate degree, compared with
6
percent of the population as a whole.
West Indian blacks, those like Colin Powell whose roots are in the
Caribbean, are one-third more likely to graduate from college than
African-Americans as a whole, and their median household income is
almost
one-third higher.
These three groups may help debunk the myth of success as a simple
product
of intrinsic intellect, for they represent three different races and
histories. In the debate over nature and nurture, they suggest the
importance of improved nurture – which, from a public policy
perspective,
means a focus on education. Their success may also offer some lessons
for
you, me, our children – and for the broader effort to chip away at
poverty
in this country.
Richard Nisbett cites each of these groups in his superb recent book,
“Intelligence and How to Get It.” Dr. Nisbett, a professor of psychology
at
the University of Michigan, argues that what we think of as intelligence
is
quite malleable and owes little or nothing to genetics.
“I think the evidence is very good that there is no genetic
contribution
to the black-white difference on I.Q.,” he said, adding that there also
seems to be no genetic difference in intelligence between whites and
Asians.
As for Jews, some not-very-rigorous studies have found modestly
above-average I.Q. for Ashkenazi Jews, though not for Sephardic Jews.
Dr.
Nisbett is somewhat skeptical, noting that these results emerge from
samples
that may not be representative.
In any case, he says, the evidence is overwhelming that what is
distinctive about these three groups is not innate advantage but rather
a
tendency to get the most out of the firepower they have.
One large study followed a group of Chinese-Americans who initially
did
slightly worse on the verbal portion of I.Q. tests than other Americans
and
the same on math portions. But beginning in grade school, the Chinese
outperformed their peers, apparently because they worked harder.
The Chinese-Americans were only half as likely as other children to
repeat
a grade in school, and by high school they were doing much better than
European-Americans with the same I.Q.
As adults, 55 percent of the Chinese-American sample entered
high-status
occupations, compared with one-third of whites. To succeed in a
profession
or as managers, whites needed an average I.Q. of about 100, while
Chinese-Americans needed an I.Q. of just 93. In short, Chinese-Americans
managed to achieve more than whites who on paper had the same intellect.
A common thread among these three groups may be an emphasis on
diligence
or education, perhaps linked in part to an immigrant drive. Jews and
Chinese
have a particularly strong tradition of respect for scholarship, with
Jews
said to have achieved complete adult male literacy – the better to read
the
Talmud – some 1,700 years before any other group.
The parallel force in China was Confucianism and its reverence for
education. You can still sometimes see in rural China the remains of a
monument to a villager who triumphed in the imperial exams. In contrast,
if
an American town has someone who earns a Ph.D., the impulse is not to
build
a monument but to pass a hat.
Among West Indians, the crucial factors for success seem twofold: the
classic diligence and hard work associated with immigrants, and intact
families. The upshot is higher family incomes and fathers more involved
in
child-rearing.
What’s the policy lesson from these three success stories?
It’s that the most decisive weapons in the war on poverty aren’t
transfer
payments but education, education, education. For at-risk households,
that
starts with social workers making visits to encourage such basic
practices
as talking to children. One study found that a child of professionals
(disproportionately white) has heard about 30 million words spoken by
age 3;
a black child raised on welfare has heard only 10 million words, leaving
that child at a disadvantage in school.
The next step is intensive early childhood programs, followed by
improved
elementary and high schools, and programs to defray college costs.
Perhaps the larger lesson is a very empowering one: success depends
less
on intellectual endowment than on perseverance and drive. As Professor
Nisbett puts it, “Intelligence and academic achievement are very much
under
people’s control.”
*
livinginbarbados // July 14, 2009 at 12:39 PM
I think I get it now. 199’s comments about “smudging the issues…wrongdoing” are a criticism of all the people who should have done something about the boardwalk but have been walking and talking about other things? The dude is shrewd!
Save Mullins Bay // July 14, 2009 at 12:40 PM
Gee, if only we could clean-up the Road View/Mullins Bay beach problems with a shovel and a broom… I have to say though (and this is something I’ve observed over the years and raised elsewhere on the Internet) that there does seems to be a disconnect between blacks and the beach/sea here in Barbados that did not exist when I was a kid, at least not to the extent that it does today. And, I am saying this as a black man myself. The beach/sea is seen as something they probably did as kids, is best left up to the tourists, but not necessarily something to make time for as adults.
Consequently, when it came time to organize to do something positive for the beach, as we are currently trying to do here in Road View/Mullins in the Save Mullins Bay effort, the apathy among my black neighbours and in wider Barbados is deafening. At our very first meeting whites outnumbered blacks although blacks constitute the vast majority of our demographic. We see it too when blacks do go to the beach in the tragedies that sometimes happen like the one at Rockley/Accra several weeks ago . The beaches of Barbados are public but I am afraid that as a people we are not taking advantage of that opportunity as we should. I know there are issues of beach access in some places and that it is getting worse, but I also know that even where there is no access issue very few blacks show up for recreational purposes, or even just to look and see what’s going on with what supposedly is also part of “our heritage.”
When the groynes went in at St. Peter’s Bay some people who live only a stone’s throw away didn’t even know. When the sea washed out the beach last May most couldn’t even be bothered to come and take a look, let alone joining any effort campaigning to remove the groynes that caused it. And, the vultures (predatory developers and investors) waiting to carve up the beach for their own economic and selfish interests know that we (blacks) largely do not care about the beach, and they are using that knowledge to their advantage. We saw the latter recently in the sale of land in Weston, St. James where the buyers were telling people who lived on plots close to the beach for generations that their land was not “beachfront property” so that they – the buyers – could pay less for it. They bought the land stitching all the little plots together and are currently advertising their yet to be constructed beachfront condos.
So, I am not surprised that apparently only whites showed up for the cleanup effort on the boardwalk. I think though that the organizers should have shown a little more tact to include blacks if they were planning to publicize it as they did; after all, this is the age where if you are trying to sell anything to the public the requisite politically correct photo in the United States (from where we obtain most of our cultural influences) must contain a white man, black woman, an Asian, and a Hispanic. I hope though that they keep up their efforts to maintain the boardwalk and not to just sit down and wait for government, which unfortunately is something we have to endure here in Road View/Mullins simply because our problems cannot be fixed with a shovel and a broom.
Save Mullins Bay
http://www.youtube.com/savemullinsbay#play/uploads/3/7nR41Np4TTA
Hopi // July 14, 2009 at 12:42 PM
@LIB[and lovin it]……..Since you trying real hard to get people over to ya site, I decided that I’d peep in and see what it was all about. Tried to listen to that voice…was it yours? If it was, man it is gawd awful annoying and robotic, very hard on the ears. You probably have more of a face for radio, but definitely not a voice and BTW is that you in that #33 jersey/shirt? How is Jamaica? Is it all peachy sweet and clean?
@X, Crackers and any other house negroes…..Can you give a clear, organic definition of RACISM?
David // July 14, 2009 at 1:18 PM
@X
If racist tendency exist in Barbados how do you or anyone propose that we deal with it? Do we ignore or discuss? Do we enter a mass discussion or take comform in the captive audience of Facebook? According to Hoad, a Bajan White Blacks and Whites have perfected the are of tolerance or should we say crypto anyone?
Random Name Generator // July 14, 2009 at 1:33 PM
@AH
Well AH you have me there, you did not introduce it a such a statement characterising all white bajans, but you have been advancing an argument which you are attempting to characterize white bajans behaviour
and I quote
***
Adrian Hinds // July 13, 2009 at 8:27 am
EQUALLY TRUE IS THE CURRENT ACTIVITY OF SOME WHITE BAJANS TO DISCREDIT BARBADOS INTERNATIONALY IN SUCH AWAY THAT ALL LOOK BAD EXCEPT THEMSELVES. The Youtube video that started this thread is yet another in several such attempts.
***
But as I pointed out in my original post I don’t see how such a statement is relevant to the issue of the post about people trying to clean up a bit of a board walk, as if this was some conspiracy to make Barbados look bad, most of the white bajans I know as as nationalist as black bajans.
As for how wide spread those feeling expressed by “a white bajan”. I am fairly certain that this sentiment
“The black Barbadian nation has been conquered by stopping the transfer of values, including thrift and hard work, from the older generation to the present.”
Is not shared by any white person i have ever met, they are too scared to think black people have been conquered.
Adrian Hinds // July 14, 2009 at 1:33 PM
livinginbarbados // July 14, 2009 at 12:27 pm
@AH
“David is X and LIB using the same ip address” [You see, had you taken the T to Copley this morning, that kind of question might not have been posed
———————————————–
I take the T to Back Bay. Just got back from a good game of basketball.
199 // July 14, 2009 at 1:35 PM
Why David bothers with the ravings of this Jamaican lunatic is a mystery to me (LIB)!! And, whoever’s responsible for placing the video on YouTube should know that demise is n’t spelt like that!!
Hopi // July 14, 2009 at 1:38 PM
@LIB…..your post @12:32 pm does not prove one shite. With all the phds and dkcs out there, where the hell is the world today? What are they good for? And with regard to that damn Noble Peace prize you need to do your homework on the origins of this family. You with your degree in economics still don’t seem to understand how the world got to this point today. Can’t you see how everyone is indoctrinated to go with the flow and support the damn, stinking corrupt establishment which has us/most of us enslaved to it. Why don’t we also put a number on a human and measure their moral conscience as well!
Adrian Hinds // July 14, 2009 at 1:48 PM
Random name generator:
Those comments of mine in bold, again does not paint a picture of all White Bajans. “Some” cannot be the same as “all”. At any rate John agreed with me that there are some as he say “ignorant White bajans” and some as he also say “ignorant black bajans”, and it is on this point that I introduce the comments of Richard Hoad (a White Bajan) which I (a Black Bajan) happen to agree with. The response I posted as mine were actually those of LIB aka Dennis Jones as he responded to Richard Hoads Nationnews article. So the impressions you gleamed from the response are those of LIB, who in a very rare moment let it be known that he could view some comments through the color of his skin tone. lol!
A White Bajan says something that you, I presume to be a White Bajan also found it necessary to defend against as the comments of one and not all Bajans probably because you interpret them to be of poor taste (racist without saying so) and I as a Black Bajan agree with those comments but LIB as whatever he is, sought to let Richard Hoad know that as a BLACKMAN he objects to his views.
So do you think that there are not a majority of Bajan whites who agree with Hoad’s June 26th article? If not the responses to that article which were majority in support of it must be black, if so is this not an interested dynamic?
Shouldn’t LIB be called on to expound on his response to Hoad?
http://bajan.wordpress.com/2009/07/11/down-by-the-boardwalk-hastings/#comment-93839
http://bajan.wordpress.com/2009/07/11/down-by-the-boardwalk-hastings/#comment-93846
http://bajan.wordpress.com/2009/07/11/down-by-the-boardwalk-hastings/#comment-93867
http://bajan.wordpress.com/2009/07/11/down-by-the-boardwalk-hastings/#comment-93895
199 // July 14, 2009 at 1:49 PM
livinginbarbados // July 14, 2009 at 12:39 pm
I think I get it now. 199’s comments about “smudging the issues…wrongdoing” are a criticism of all the people who should have done something about the boardwalk but have been walking and talking about other things? The dude is shrewd!
*****************
Shrewd, perhaps, but not deceitful! You know very well that I was referring to you and your unmentionable, people!!
Sargeant // July 14, 2009 at 1:52 PM
A bit of a perspective from a non historian. A number of “white” families did leave Barbados in the early 70’s for Australia and New Zealand. Some also left for Canada but Bajans both white and black have always gone to Canada ( I met a few Canadians from Sydney, Nova Scotia who had Bajan parents/grandparents) but Australia & NZ were far away.
This followed a period of what the local Caribbean Gov’t’s referred to as “social unrest”. Walter Rodney was barred from reentering Jamaica because of his militancy and advocacy for the poor – with resulting riots; Stokely Carmichael was refused entry into Trinidad (his birthplace) and in Barbados we had our little faction led by Bobby Clarke and Glenroy Straughn shouting “Fidel/Black Power etc.”; some where on the periphery also calling for Black empowerment was Elombe in his dashiki/or Shirt-Jac and sandals. In Trinidad there was also an army mutiny where one of the leading participants was Raffique Shah now a columnist in the Trinidad Express.
Of those who went to Australia & New Zealand a few did return ( one chap who did, found the charms of being a ranch hand on a sheep farm really unappealing) while others may have been too ashamed or broke to return and some may have prospered in their adopted countries.
They left because they were fearful that things may fall apart in Barbados. Incidentally I saw one (a business acquaintance) back in Bim a few months after he left for Australia and I asked what he was doing back here. He told me he had some business to clear up but a friend told me it was because he had a local honey (who was black).
A man returned from Australia for Bajan Booty. Now that’s Booty.
X // July 14, 2009 at 2:02 PM
Attrition will likely be the long term solution as the old racists die off and are replaced by the younger generations that are much more likely to mix and marry regardless of race. There will always be racism but hopefully at a lower level.
In the interim I think open discussions are more useful than the age-old (and Hoad endorsed) quiet tolerance of one another. But it shouldn’t be led by the self-serving, self-righteous whites like Bizzy or many of the intolerant black leaders that have dealt with the issue over the years. It’s a difficult problem to solve, perhaps women and children would have to lead on this one.
livinginbarbados // July 14, 2009 at 2:17 PM
@Hopi
“your post @12:32 pm does not prove one shite…. You with your degree in economics still don’t seem to understand how the world got to this point today. Can’t you see how everyone is indoctrinated to go with the flow and support the damn, stinking corrupt establishment which has us/most of us enslaved to it. Why don’t we also put a number on a human and measure their moral conscience as well!” [I hope that I did not say the article PROVED anything, but that it was interesting. I get taken to task on this blog because I take a line that is about not proving things: there are arguments and counter-arguments, and some may be convinced while others are not. As for indoctrination (and I loved PDC’s response to me this morning on the cricket thread as to where their ideology came from), no one is free, and I cannot believe that anyone has done a full brain flush. I think I understand a lot more about things because I have been subjected to and experienced many things that are not standard. They are not meant to make me seem better but they count against labelling as standard, and perhaps seeing corruption of many forms and against many people. Just for instances. A Jamaican who speaks Russian and has lived in the Soviet Union and is not a Marxist is rare: Russian corruption is an art form to which other nations wish to aspire. A Caribbean person who has lived in the part of African from which many of our ancestors are supposed to have come from as slaves, is very uncommon; living as a Christian minority amongst Muslims is not a horrifying experience but pushes against certain doctrines with which one has lived for decades.
While you may not like the world as it is, you have to try to convince others to change to what you see as the/a better form, but you can live on without accepting the environment/situation in which you live. (I rationalize that as how PDC are getting by.)
It’s because I don’t ascribe to a sort of
“there you have it” view of things that I have to be an uber-economist and assume that “199″ does not exist and that I am not a lunatic and continue to believe that I can think. Cogito ergo sum helps, but is not enough.
livinginbarbados // July 14, 2009 at 2:28 PM
@Hopi
“Tried to listen to that voice…was it yours? [Computer generated by ODIO.COM] If it was, man it is gawd awful annoying and robotic, very hard on the ears.”
“You probably have more of a face for radio, but definitely not a voice…” [My real voice is dulcet.]
“and BTW is that you in that #33 jersey/shirt? [That's too kind. I think I have slightly browner legs.]
“How is Jamaica? Is it all peachy sweet and clean?” [Downtown Kingston has been a run down spot since the mid-1970s and governments have played football about reviving it. Where I grew up as a boy--close to Bank of Jamaica--got taken over by 'garrisons'. Uptown areas like Manor Park and Liganea and Hope Gardens, by UWI are sweet, clean and not much different from when my grand-uncle came from country fi buil house fi big man. In the country, where my father lives, most people try to grow some food (corn, potatoes, peas, okra, cassava, bananas, etc.) Many people still sits on their porch or veranda as they like and eat and drink without much care. They walk in day or night, and the biggest risk is crazy drivers: "Gunman na cum fi trubble we. Dem kno' we go chop dem up if dem get renk up ya so!" Can't speak much for the north coast and the tourists spots--stay well away from them and rather hit the hills and dig yam, cassava and coco with my cousins.]
Adrian Hinds // July 14, 2009 at 2:30 PM
I interpret your opinions as not really wanting to deal with issue. It is easier to attempt dismissal of what a person see or experience, as wanting to stir up racial strive.
Mongoose // July 14, 2009 at 2:31 PM
DAVID: “If racist tendency exist in Barbados how do you or anyone propose that we deal with it? Do we ignore or discuss? Do we enter a mass discussion or take comform in the captive audience of Facebook? According to Hoad, a Bajan White Blacks and Whites have perfected the are of tolerance or should we say crypto anyone?”
Can someone please translate this statement into decipherable English?
Adrian Hinds // July 14, 2009 at 2:37 PM
Random name generator:
Those comments of mine in bold, again does not paint a picture of all White Bajans. “Some” cannot be the same as “all”. At any rate John agreed with me that there are some as he say “some ignorant White bajans” and some as he also say “ignorant black bajans”, and it is on this point that I introduce the comments of Richard Hoad (a White Bajan) which I (a Black Bajan) happen to agree with. The response I posted as mine were actually those of LIB aka Dennis Jones as he responded to Richard Hoads Nationnews article. So the impressions you gleamed from the response are those of LIB, who in a very rare moment let it be known that he could view some comments through the color of his skin tone. lol!
A White Bajan says something that you, I presume to be a White Bajan also found it necessary to defend against as the comments of one and not all Bajans probably because you interpret them to be of poor taste (racist without saying so) and I as a Black Bajan agree with those comments but LIB as, Black Jamaican Brit , sought to let Richard Hoad know that as a BLACKMAN he objects to his views.
So do you think that there are not a majority of Bajan whites who agree with Hoad’s June 26th article? If not the responses to that article which were majority in support of it must be black, if so is this not an interested dynamic?
Shouldn’t LIB be called on to futher his response to Hoad?
Jack Bowman // July 14, 2009 at 2:45 PM
Quoting Hopi: “I’ll put my neck out on a limb.”
Gorgeous. Absolutely wondrous in its fascinating blend of cliché and mixed metaphor.
On which limb will you put your neck? Can you get your neck onto your shin? Are you a professional contortionist?
Clarity of writing is always a reliable index of clarity of thought. If you can’t write properly, you can’t think properly. Really sorry about that.
Perhaps your subliteracy is the cause of your racism. Perhaps they are simply concomitant features of your personality. Who knows? Who cares? For our purposes, the only thing that matters is that you are both subliterate and racist.
Best wishes to you and to yours.
Adrian Hinds // July 14, 2009 at 2:48 PM
a Bajan White Blacks and Whites have perfected the are of tolerance or should we say crypto anyone?”
———————————————–
“Bajan whites and black have perfected the art of tolerence or should we say crypto anyone?”
Even with the obvious error it could still make sense. They are some Blacks that others say act white, hence the possible term “White blacks” lol!
Due to the inability of some language mavens, in understanding statements that do not explicitly follow proper spelling and grammar rule, they tend to be not very informed. lol! if this is not true, are they faking ignorance? lol!
Jack Bowman // July 14, 2009 at 2:49 PM
@ Negroman
Quoting “Negroman”:
“Jack Bowman you & your white thrash family & friends exit this world & leave this world for beautiful Black People to live in.”
Nice. Please keep this up. You’re doing grand.
Adrian Hinds // July 14, 2009 at 2:56 PM
Here is Richard Hoad’s Article from June 26th.
[quote]THE LOWDOWN: Wrong and strong
Published on: 6/26/2009.
by RICHARD HOAD
DAVID, thanks for your email on the immigration problem in Barbados. It seems every week you are president of something else: Clement Payne, PEP, Pan Africa . . . now it’s the Coalition For A Humane Amnesty – Cofaha. Yuh confusing people, Dave.
Okay, the issue here is illegal immigrants. “Illegal” meaning they are breaking our laws and in a very serious matter. It surprises me no end that people trained in the law like you and Mia can stomach such actions. I can’t.
I find Thompy’s treatment of illegal aliens much too soft. Those wayward Africans who thumbed their noses at our gestures of goodwill should have been found and dealt with.
One recalls not many years ago Trini police were instructed to round up suspected illegal Grenadians and make them say “box”.
“And if they say ‘bax’, licks inside the van.”
You’re trying to be wrong and strong, Dave. That can’t work.
Let’s not beat around the bush. Seasonal workers have come here for many years. They lived in camps, earned good wages, went back home. In recent times, illegals have taken advantage of lax immigration controls, abused our hospitality, squatted on restricted land, brought in their families, produced offsprings. And now number thousands.
Barbados has evolved over the years into a stable, peaceful society – majority Blacks who control the Government, professions, workforce; a few thousand Whites who get blamed for most things, run businesses, support political parties; sundry Indian and other traders who keep to themselves and make a lot of money.
We like it so. We especially don’t want to import ethnic conflict as seen in Trinidad, Guyana and elsewhere. Right now Romanian immigrants are being beaten up in Northern Ireland, Indians in Australia, often by Lebanese. France and England are under siege.
We’ve always welcomed migrants, but mass immigration is a recipe for social unrest.
Earlier this week, Maurice Norville quoted Karl Marx: “To conquer a nation you just have to block the transfer of values, morals and beliefs between generations by foreign cultures.”
This happened here with a vengeance. The black Barbadian nation has been conquered by stopping the transfer of values, including thrift and hard work, from the older generation to the present.
And the seeds of discontent fell on fertile ground. The black Barbadian agricultural or construction worker never saw where he would eventually become a manager or owner, despite knowing those trades backwards.
So he has opted out of certain jobs, preferring in many cases crime or trading in drugs. But I for one am convinced that with a concerted effort by all, the Barbadian work ethic will return to its former unrivalled majesty.
For a start, black Barbadians must be shown how to use their legacy of agricultural expertise to take over the vast acreages of abandoned estates, to farm with modern methods and grow rich. Otherwise the land developers will rake in millions selling it to foreigners and it will be lost forever to indigenous Barbadians.
The present Guyanese immigrant workers reputedly work hard for lower wages. But don’t be surprised if future waves set up their own farms, construction firms, mechanic shops and lumber outlets, employing their own people and undercutting their previous employers.
And let those Bajans who are turning their backs on locals in favour of immigrant workers beware! There are very few jobs which can’t be done by outsiders at a lower cost.
Never before has Niemoeller’s message been more pertinent to Barbados. Indeed, it could soon read: They came for the Bajan agricultural workers’ jobs, and I did not speak out because I was not an agricultural worker; then they came for the Bajan construction workers’ jobs and I did not speak out because I was not a construction worker.
And then they came for my job. And in fear I turned to the call-in programme and heard:
“Good monling, welcome Blass Tax! I am modlerator T’in Long Ting. In headlines, Bahbladus plime minsterer Rick E. Singh on holiday in Berbice. Two unemployed mens caught yellow-handed in Turner’s Hall guava patch. Say they were ‘velly hungly’.
“Their names given as flomer radio man, Dawid Erris, and legal beagle, Dawid Comisslong, predisent of Guava Pickers Association, Guapa . . . [/quote]
Jack Bowman // July 14, 2009 at 2:56 PM
@ David
Quoting David, on July 14, 2009 at 7:52 am:
“It is our intention to leave the comments above exposed for ALL to read”
Good for you, David. It is helpful for everybody that you have made plain, to an international public, your knowing, conscious and mindful decision to leave the comments, in your words “exposed for ALL to read.”
Adrian Hinds // July 14, 2009 at 2:57 PM
Here is Living In Barbados aks Dennis Jones response to the same article
[quote]: 6/27/2009
There is an interesting notion here that Barbados is at ethnic piece, so long as the established areas of ethnic influence and places are not disturbed. This piece says that the majority black Barbadians were denied higher places on the economic ladder by those who controlled access to those places (and they were local whites and Indians by the same analysis), but must now beware that their place is now under threat from outsiders. This is a very interesting plea whose logic is that black Bajans should not pick a fight with those other nationals that have put them down, but should focus their wrath on new entrants that may keep them down. I am not a Bajan, so I cannot respond to that as a national, but as a black person it resonates as an set of excuses for the maintenance of economic control in the hands of a local white and Indian minority. Political power therefore remains hostage to economic aspects. I think this is really a disturbing argument that fosters the status quo, with no evident intent to see the reins of economic power shift.
Dennis Jones[/quote]
http://www.nationnews.com/comments/guestcolumnists/lowdown-JUne-26-copy-for-web
Adrian Hinds // July 14, 2009 at 3:03 PM
How do you respond John? Dennis Jones is not a Bajan and could not have been indoctinated by Bajan leaders. Where did he get this “nonsense” about Whites putting down bajan blacks? lol!
Adrian Hinds // July 14, 2009 at 3:17 PM
Hopi I really believe that Hoad in his July 3rd article was gunning for LivingInBarbados aka Dennis Jones for his fake Blackman response to his July 26th article. ha ha ha even Dr. Don Marchall thought Hoad was spot on.
[quote]THE LOWDOWN: Those geedy pees
Published on: 7/3/2009.
by RICHARD HOAD
Economic indicators such as GDP were never designed to be comprehensive measures of well-being . . . . We need adequate indicators to address global challenges such as climate change, poverty, resource depletion and health. – Beyond GDP
FROM AN EARLY AGE I was into animals. It’s all I ever wanted to do. Alas, fate decreed I should suffer education at all levels and work in other areas before returning to my chosen calling. I’m not complaining though. My other dream – to become a Chippendale dancer – still hasn’t been realised.
At UWI, I specialised in agricultural economics. Strange to relate, I excelled in economics, often trouncing my fellow-travellers by comfortable margins.
Stranger to relate, some of those said fellow-travellers, good lads all but by no means gurus, continued in that ill-begotten field and ended up in international monetary institutions. They are now comfortably retired with yachts and golf clubs.
I mention this because often we hear pronouncements from the World Bank, IMF, IDB and such like and assume that these represent the voice of God in economic matters. They don’t.
For instance, they worship the all-importance of geedy pee, not caring in the least that a high geedy pee in a country doesn’t correlate with the inhabitants being happy or contented. But then again international monetary institutions aren’t into happiness or contentment.
They’re into trade. World trade consists largely of “developed” countries shipping nicely-packaged junk to poorer “developing” countries. “In order to be considered ‘developed’ like us,” they say, “each household must have the desired complement of computers, wide-screen TVs, BVDs and a bidet.
“You must slave and work hard to afford these ‘necessities’, neglecting your health, wives and children. But even that will not be enough. You must also sell your land to ‘developers’ from the rich countries to boost your geedy pee.”
Thus it was that the Inter-American Development Bank apparently decreed that every square foot of our land must earn its maximum income. Mr Arthur, a trained economist, and others swallowed that.
One often heard Reverend Hatch, a trained preacherman, pontificating how the land at Bennetts employed only so many workers and yielded only so much income when in sugar cane, but now it produceth an hundredfold more as a golf course.
We could argue that St James Parish Church, which modestly supports a pastor, sexton, organist and gravedigger, could employ many more and boost our geedy pee a thousandfold by converting to a disco cum brothel. But we won’t go there. When the farm land is gone, the churches will no doubt meet their own fate in the fullness of time.
Geedy pee has for centuries been the philosophy guiding the white man’s take-over of other people’s countries. “The lands in North, Central and South America, Africa, the Caribbean and India,” he reasoned, “are rich in furs, minerals, timber, gold, oil, you name it. Why should they be controlled by primitive natives who do little to exploit their riches? Surely we should take them over since we are so much more efficient?”
This philosophy flourishes even today. The Indians in the Amazon jungles who want no contact with the geedypissy white man’s world are being hounded and their lands taken from them. Similar pressures are being exerted by mining companies on India and the Inuit territories.
When developers bought the land next to mine, and wanted mine as well, the Canadian among them was interested only in the geedy pee of my farm. On that would he base his offer. He didn’t factor in the satisfaction I get from producing a healthy product or my love of the area.
On a national level, we Barbadians will have to face up to this geedy pee scenario. We like a low-hustle, care-free existence, enjoy our Crop-Over, women wining, good food. But suppose others come to live among us who are totally business-oriented? No Crop-Over, no partying, saving every cent to acquire property and businesses which never revert to local Bajans?
In short order, they will take over the country. To prevent this, Bajans must either restrict the acquisition of property by aliens or give up our lifestyle and match them in effort.
Your choice. Me, I going and milk my goats.
* Richard Hoad is a farmer and social commentator.[/quote]
Of course LIB will disagree. ha ha lol!
Jack Bowman // July 14, 2009 at 3:21 PM
@ Adrian Hinds
Thanks for posting the Hoad article. I hadn’t read it before, and it’s definitely worth reading.
I hadn’t realized before that Mr. Hoad is so historically illiterate that he attempts to support his argument by paraphrasing the words of the infamously racist anti-semite Martin Niemöller.
That particular quotation from Pastor Niemöller has been so wearyingly reiterated that it has captured the imagination of the not-too-bright everywhere.
Sincere thanks. That was interesting.
Adrian Hinds // July 14, 2009 at 3:39 PM
Penny doesn’t have any house work for you to do? chuspes!
livinginbarbados // July 14, 2009 at 3:47 PM
@AH
How fitting, having yomped across Boston Common, to come back and find that Mr. Hoad’s article of June 26 and my reaction to it on this blog have been retrieved by you. Good work. I knew you had it in you.
I read the geedeepees article and would be surprised if Mr. Hoad had me in mind, though given the relative muteness of UWI economists here on major issues, apart from Messrs. Downes, Marshall and Robinson, it would have been easy to finger ANY economist. But, really, I make few comments on the economic topics here. I will now start to catch up with the pelaton.
Jack Bowman // July 14, 2009 at 3:48 PM
@ “Pat”
Quoting Pat: “You [Jack Bowman] are on permanent ignore!”
What a disaster. I have no idea who you are. I have never heard a single thing that you have ever said. I have never read a single word that you have ever written.
But now that you’ve announced in public that you’re ignoring me … Hell, I’ll just have to go and hang myself.
And it will be YOUR fault, Pat.
livinginbarbados // July 14, 2009 at 3:54 PM
@David
“We don’t have the time to navigate Facebook. Additionally given the prominence of the local blogs which in the main target local audience it might be a worthy approach if the blogs are solicited to offer support to causes such as this one. Doesnt Facebook require membership and there is limited to a captive audience.” ['Navigate' makes it sound like treacherous waters. Take a dip, you fella. You need an email address and date of birth. Captive audience? In the sense that the universe of Facebook members and/or specifically 'invited' members can share what you write. It's a different approach, and of course what you write is subject to some language filtering, I believe. If you wanted to have discussion threads on FB, it could happen but may be a bit messier than on the blog. Commentators would have to hold their identify used to become members, but few limits on being ficticious.]
Adrian Hinds // July 14, 2009 at 4:02 PM
Comments from another blog of a Bajan who also uses the boardwalk.
He is right! It is or has not been the norm but we’ve been having some high swells on the south coast over the past week or so. This has washed sand & pebbles onto the boardwalk.
Of course it’s going to be an ongoing thing & so the NCC really needs to get on the job & keep the area clean but being a gov. institution we might as well ask the little green men to keep the walk free of debris.
Ok, ok, maybe it’s not as bad as that but you get the pic
I was up there on Fri. evening & apart from one patch about 6 ft. long right next to Hasting Rocks, it was clear of debris.
Didn’t faze the users though – the splashes from the waves were more of a prob.
———————————————-
Jack Bowman // July 14, 2009 at 4:10 PM
@ “Hopi”
Quoting Hopi, a person always keen to put his smile-inducing ignorance on public display:
“Pray tell how did the racists, their ancestors and descendAnts [sic] get to be so filthy stinking rich?”
I think (and perhaps I’m just guessing here; possibly I’m wrong; brighter minds will doubtless correct me) that it had something to do with the industrial revolution. I’m just taking a wild stab there, a complete shot in the dark.
livinginbarbados // July 14, 2009 at 4:15 PM
@AH
“the response are those of LIB, who in a very rare moment let it be known that he could view some comments through the color of his skin tone.”[My comments were never TO Mr. Hoad, unless he participated in the thread under some other name, but about what he wrote. I did speak to one of his brothers about it, privately, but he’s someone I know.
But, this is where the nature of argument is important. Had Mr. Hoad categorised his views of Barbados on nationality or certain gender grounds, I would not necessarily have found myself amongst those he sought to identify. In the same way that when ‘199′ attacks Jamaicans I do not respond based on what kind of Jamaican I am (and I have touched on some of the aspects of difference in that case). His sweeping attacks are at all Jamaicans, and ridiculous as that may appear to me, he holds that position. In truth, I was not directly identified amongst his groups but found myself empathising with the portral of black Bajans. It IS interesting that he drew his lines on colour/ethnic bases and argues that Barbados is stable and peacefu, but “We especially don’t want to import ethnic conflict”, the black Barbadian has been “conquered”. My feeble understanding of English leaves me struggling to reconcile all of that. I did wonder why Mr. Hoad did not see Barbados is simple political, or DLP/BLP terms, or types of schooling. But maybe that betrays my ignorance of things local.
As I’ve said before, I am not going on to play a game in this blog of ‘expanding’ on my comments. I leave them to stand and those who wish to discect, agree or disagree are free to do that.
It really ought not have been necessary for you to cite the remarks out of context, and like some maze trail, dribble out their proper context. But I guess you have your reason.
liz // July 14, 2009 at 4:17 PM
white cant do right
even if they are local
livinginbarbados // July 14, 2009 at 4:26 PM
On Mr. Hoad’s geedy pee article, I just laughed as it was a classic straw man/red herring constuct. Postulate something: “…they worship the all-importance of geedy pee, not caring in the least that a high geedy pee in a country doesn’t correlate with the inhabitants being happy or contented. But then again international monetary institutions aren’t into happiness or contentment…They’re into trade.” Then focus on the part that is not relevant to the institutions, happiness and contentment and their relationship to GDP, instead of focusing on what is relevant (good or bad), the institutions’ involvement in trade.
Bhutan is the only country, I think, that measures its progress in terms of gross national happiness. Worth a read on it, if it is new to you.
livinginbarbados // July 14, 2009 at 4:34 PM
I’m not going to play forensic detective, but the Barbados Boardwalk Facebook pages show sand clean up photos for JULY 3 and 6, but also displacement of rocks/stones and stones onto the boardwalk on JUNE 2. Facebook automatically date/time stamps photo uploads, so I would take those dates as good as being the LATEST the occurences could have happened. No surprise, if in making the video, there was time splicing.
David // July 14, 2009 at 4:38 PM
@LIB
Thanks for the introduction to Facebook for dummy comment but we reiterate, time does not permit.
Jack Bowman // July 14, 2009 at 4:42 PM
@ David
What happened to Zoe, the religious person who supported her/his arguments by reference to an old book revered by many?
Did you censor Zoe and her comments? If so, why?
livinginbarbados // July 14, 2009 at 4:59 PM
@David
“…time does not permit..” Time always permits, inclination and interest may inhibit. Not questioning your priorities, just philosophising.
Random Name Generator // July 14, 2009 at 5:01 PM
@ AH
I still don’t see how Hoad’s article is relevant to a discussion about the motivation of people posting a video criticising the NCC?
livinginbarbados // July 14, 2009 at 5:19 PM
The Barbados Boardwalk page has nearly 500 pictures, and a quick peek shows a good sample of sand build up, block gulleys and garbage build up back to early April. I’m no engineer, but it looks as if the sand build up and natural reversion of the beach is a constant/ongoing process. I think NCC?CZMU have a major challenge on their hands.
Adrian Hinds // July 14, 2009 at 5:32 PM
RNG forgive me, I wasn’t attempting to satisfy this specific question. Much of what I said was about the motivation to employ the services of a videographer in the way and manner that they did. People do good deeds and some do so with bad intent. I attempted to demonstrate a pattern where I have seen similar behaviour,..BFP. Unfortunate or not this pattern involved color, and could not be avoided. As have been the case in the past, when the actions of some White Bajans were questioned there is this attempted reaction to overwhelmed the discussion seemingly in an attempt to shut it down. Often when this occurs, those that would have us belief that they and they alone knows what is racist who is a racist start to shoot all involve with the over used label in rapid succession. I wanted to see the response to the comments of Richard Hoad and LIB response to it. I was not disappointed.
You can say that LIB gave me an opening to introduce it, and before him John did. lol!
Mongoose // July 14, 2009 at 5:58 PM
The giggling girl has spoken (lol!). How totally false of you AH. Tell me, do you see these “patterns involving colour” in your sleep and have you seen a physician about it? And then to suggest that this “pattern involving colour” could not be avoided. Well, actually it could have been avoided but as usual, no matter what the subject at hand, you always introduce “colour”. Your little paranoid world seems to revolve around “colour” and you have taken a completely innocent situation, a group of people taking it upon themselves to do a little cleaning of the boardwalk and turned it into some huge conspiracy to besmirch black people. As to why it was posted on YouTube, there are thousands of people who post videos on YouTube everyday, from the inane to the totally pointless. Do we know the name of the individual who posted it and were all the members of the clean-up crew even aware that it would be posted? Was there some sort of evil intent? We do not know the answers to those questions and yet, you have decided with not a shred of evidence that there was some sort of malicious intent. Do you loan out that crystal ball of yours or do you selfishly keep it to yourself?
livinginbarbados // July 14, 2009 at 6:12 PM
@AH
I find this thread fascinating, after the long threads on immigration, which became heavily laden with racism and ethnic charges. Should I be surprised how quickly the topic was lost and discussion of race took over?
It started with an email I sent to David on July 11, noting “You might have seen this YouTube video”, and supplied the link (which I had received from a friend on Facebook). David responded “Thanks. will post it shortly. a damn shame.” I replied “Again the gap between should and do.”
The post then appeared that same evening, citing my blog as the source of the link (not strictly correct, of course, but not really so important to me in the bigger scheme of things).
Adrian made the first two comments and David the 4th, and by that time the notion of racial differences (albeit in the context initially of dealing with the environment) was already a swirl.
I’ll read the initial exchanges again, because they tapped immediately into a history with BFP (and it seems that it revolved around matters of deep racial divide) with which I am not so familiar, but which also permeated the thread from the very first comment.
livinginbarbados // July 14, 2009 at 6:30 PM
@Mongoose
“As to why it was posted on YouTube, there are thousands of people who post videos on YouTube everyday, from the inane to the totally pointless.” [No doubt, true.]
“Do we know the name of the individual who posted it…”[Yes. I cited him on the piece I wrote around the video on my blog, http://livinginbarbados.blogspot.com/2009/07/sands-of-time-tick-against-boardwalk.html. I wrote "The video was produced by a Barbadian photographer, Andrew Hulsmeier, who has produced a few other videos about aspects of modern Barbadian life." He is also on Facebook. There he describes himself as born in Venezuela but now ahs Barbados as his home. ]
“…and were all the members of the clean-up crew even aware that it would be posted?” [A member of the group and the producer should answer that question, if they wish.]
“Was there some sort of evil intent?” [Potential evil doers will need to 'fess up.]
David // July 14, 2009 at 6:40 PM
Was the NCC informed?
We ask again.
Based on what we see happening on the Boardwalk the systemic problem will not be solved by a few shovels or broomes.
So was the NCC informed before the video was placed on the Internet?
Mongoose // July 14, 2009 at 6:46 PM
And just why would the NCC need to be informed before the video was posted on YouTube? To seek permission? What an absurd comment.
Adrian Hinds // July 14, 2009 at 9:47 PM
Did I not say, I attempted to demonstrate a pattern where I have seen similar behaviour,BFP? Why does LIB feel that he has to repeat it as if he unearthed a deep secret? Whenever I see activity of the nature that this Video attempted, I will have my say. No amount of filibustering, or organized call to arms to defend, deflect and shoot all and sundry with the racist label will sway me away.
One posture said “There is a general malaise or disrespect in this nation, towards our surroundings and nature.”
Thus as a result of this video Barbadians stand indicted
I am still asking why the need to embarrass Barbados as this video does? The drumbeat continued to be one of volunteerism only. Yet another poster noted
“The videos intent while I am sure has the best intentions behind it can be a little deceiving.”
Deceiving yes, little no! This presentation reference the entire boardwalk all 18 million dollars of it. The ensuing video clip showed a small area, over and over, from different angles, but nevertheless the same small area. The poster went on to say
“I have never walked the boardwalk but looking at the pictures of the sand, the sea etc it looks like they were taken right after “big sea”. As you can see there are not too many footsteps on the sand etc. I would guess early morning after big seas. In which case I don’t think you can blame the NCC for not being down there right away. This happens on all beaches around the island when there have been high seas.”
Indeed another poster seem to correlate this account by saying.
“People who know the Hastings stretch witness the sea at high tide splashing onto the car parks and road, Is this occurrence factored”
A poster on another blog had this to say.
Ok, so there was a swell event and a little more sand was deposited than usual and the NCC was not around to clear it up. The important thing here is that it is gathering sand and creating beach like it was suppose to and that is great
Another one said:
It is or has not been the norm that we’ve been having some high swells on the south coast over the past week or so. This has washed sand & pebbles onto the boardwalk.
Of course it’s going to be an ongoing thing & so the NCC really needs to get on the job & keep the area clean but being a gov. institution we might as well ask the little green men to keep the walk free of debris.
Ok, ok, maybe it’s not as bad as that but you get the pic
I was up there on Fri. evening & apart from one patch about 6 ft. long right next to Hasting Rocks, it was clear of debris.
Didn’t faze the users though – the splashes from the waves were more of a prob.
and they are other comments from other blogs by Barbadians who use the boardwalk that agrees that this is not necessarily neglect by the NCC. I believe them I believe that the person/s responsible for the video knew this, but the bigger cause, whatever it really is, must be served, and so they have indict all of Barbados, with their willingness to display a video so put together, as to demonstrate willful intent by Bajans for their general malaise or disrespect, towards their surroundings and nature.
Adrian Hinds // July 14, 2009 at 10:01 PM
@LIB
It IS interesting that he drew his lines on colour/ethnic bases and argues that Barbados is stable and peacefu, but “We especially don’t want to import ethnic conflict”, the black Barbadian has been “conquered”. My feeble understanding of English leaves me struggling to reconcile all of that.
————————————————-
What the article actually said.
the “conquered” was use as follows.
“This happened here with a vengeance. The black Barbadian nation has been conquered by stopping the transfer of values, including thrift and hard work, from the older generation to the present. ”
AND IT’S MEANING WAS WAS LAID BY THE FOLLOWING PARAGRAPH WHICH PRECEEDED IT.
“Earlier this week, Maurice Norville quoted Karl Marx: “To conquer a nation you just have to block the transfer of values, morals and beliefs between generations by foreign cultures.”
Before these two paragraphs Hoad said the following.
“We like it so. We especially don’t want to import ethnic conflict as seen in Trinidad, Guyana and elsewhere. Right now Romanian immigrants are being beaten up in Northern Ireland, Indians in Australia, often by Lebanese. France and England are under siege”
Do I have to ask why LIB seeks to mixed seperate statements as he did?
Jah Black // July 14, 2009 at 10:11 PM
Random name generator // July 14, 2009 at 10:43 am
”
Many white people, and many black people, and many Indian people have said many things. Stamens of individual should not be used to judge groups unless, of course, the individual is representing them in some official capacity.”
*************************************
Those that seek to label BU, will have great difficulty subscribing to your view.
Random Name Generator // July 14, 2009 at 1:33 pm
“As for how wide spread those feeling expressed by “a white bajan”. I am fairly certain that this sentiment
“The black Barbadian nation has been conquered by stopping the transfer of values, including thrift and hard work, from the older generation to the present.”
Is not shared by any white person i have ever met, they are too scared to think black people have been conquered.”
*************************************
Interesting to say the least,
What is the cause of this fear?
Did this fear prevent black people from being invited to the video shoot?
Why are black people now invited?
Are we to accept that the video
Adrian Hinds // July 14, 2009 at 10:16 PM
David // July 14, 2009 at 6:40 pm
Was the NCC informed?
We ask again.
Based on what we see happening on the Boardwalk the systemic problem will not be solved by a few shovels or broomes.
So was the NCC informed before the video was placed on the Internet?
————————————————-
David who are you putting this question to? The videographer? the Hasting friends comittee, or their friends? they seem to be a subtle attempt to seperate out them out.
livinginbarbados // July 14, 2009 at 10:16 PM
@AH
It’s really very simple. To conquer there must have been a struggle or a contention for supremacy (otherwise the word loses its meaning–it can be a real physical struggle or some sort of mental struggle, which we could say is about ideas), and one side has overcome another. Given the predicates of Hoad’s argument, black Barbados was not in a struggle with some outside forces; it was an internal struggle. So, if the black Barbadian nation has been conquered, who were/are the victors? If there was no real physical struggle, then it could be seen as ideas or ideals that were not allowed to gain hold.
The nation of Barbados should be viewed as a whole, but Hoad partioned it and one part, which he described as “The black Barbadian nation” has been conquered. What did/does that leave?
Saying Nuttin // July 14, 2009 at 10:16 PM
Mongoose you are an ass. The point is, obviously, that to denigrate the responsible institution for not having the boardwalk spic and span without even making one single call to complain would be hasty. The NCC like any organisation has to plan organise and schedule. If they have cleaning scheduled for tuesday and Friday and there are uncharacteristically heavy winds and swells Wednesday morning how could it be clean then?
I find that it is a fixture of private sector behaviour to imply that government is inherently incompetent. While there are some bad apples and we COULD use improvement in many areas the standard of public sector service and governence in Barbados compares favourably to most developing countries.
AND FOR THE INFORMATION OF PRIVATE SECTOR INDIVIDUALS
the examples of poor and apathetic behaviour and service seen sometimes in the public sector is in keeping with the type of behaviour exhibited in some of our private sector bastions.
Hotel managers stealing frozen chickens and robbing the place blind.
Lime and their sour service.
Numerous retail outlets and restaurants with their piss poor customer service.
Incompetent tradesmen, contractors and professionals including lawyers and doctors.
Horribly run enterprises who often need bailing out.
A lot of “old” companies who show a good bottom line through restriction of access to the market, collusion, price fixing, price gouging and general oligopoly practices.
Yet only government is inefficient and incompetent.
Things could be made better , it is true but I bet you that more could have been achieved in the Boardwalk saga with less acrimony if a call had been placed to the appropriate level of the NCC, an email sent with a video of the Boardwalk and the promise to assist in cleanup wherever possible. While government has been lapse in some cases with regards to maintenance the blanket attack on the NCC and the accusations of sloth and incompetence were simply distasteful and appeared more to be focussed at shaming the organisation and sanctifying the clean up crew.
A little humility and a less adversarial approach would go a long way gentlemen.
NB Iaint say a ting bout race, black white or blue so dont ascribe any such intent to my words.
Jah Black // July 14, 2009 at 10:17 PM
Are we to accept that the video shoot was done and posted with the best of intentions?
livinginbarbados // July 14, 2009 at 10:24 PM
@AH
My argument ended prematurely.
To finish, you cannot sensibly talk about the black Barbadian nation having been conquered and also say that black Barbadians ‘control’ (Government, professions, workforce). That’s a broken logic in my mind. Whatever that control is, it is hard to see how it is fully effective. It must be constrained, and the constraint to my mind is imposed by those who have the reins on the economy and finance (whom Hoad has clearly set out).
livinginbarbados // July 14, 2009 at 10:27 PM
@AH
“Did I not say, I attempted to demonstrate a pattern where I have seen similar behaviour,BFP? Why does LIB feel that he has to repeat it as if he unearthed a deep secret? Whenever I see activity of the nature that this Video attempted, I will have my say.” [Your attenae vibrate, but not for the same reasons as mine or others perhaps. To mix metaphors, because you smell a rat does not mean that anyone else smells a thing, and whatever they smell might not even be a rat. That's part of the difference between thinking for oneself and acting like lemmings.]
livinginbarbados // July 14, 2009 at 10:36 PM
@Saying Nuttin
“The NCC like any organisation has to plan organise and schedule.” [True enough, and we can ask if that is done. But, also in certain circumstances planning etc means you have to be ready to deal with the contingency whenever it occurs, especially during certain seasons, and weather systems are often predicted, so there is often some forewarning. Staying here in Boston for a few days, I can imagine that in winter the snow clearing schedule is set in general terms but whenever it snows, the ploughs get rolled out, or if snow is predicted the salting is done ahead of time. It's not left because it inconveniently falls not as scheduled. That kind of action is also what shows a state of preparedness.
The NCC is not a mute and its silence does not mean that it sees no problem. Very few agencies stand up and point the finger at themselves.]
Anonymous // July 14, 2009 at 10:40 PM
Wow a video is posted ostensibly about the maintenance (or lack thereof) of the boardwalk. Nearly 300 posts later what have we discerned? According to A. Hinds and others, this video is really an attempt to discredit the Black leadership of this country and is in keeping with the nefarious agenda of white Bajans generally to undermine Black progress. In fact according to one Bush Tea, Blacks are still at the bottom of the barrel and are hardly benefiting from the advancements (the few that there are) that has taken place in Barbados. Hopi has provided a global perspective of white domination and even Yardbroom has dropped by to let us know that he imperiously observes and approves (well he didn’t disapprove!!) our little contretemps. Well I have accepted these theses (because white people can’t do anything right in Barbados, you know!) and attempted to move the debate into a more solution driven direction viz all whites should move to Simpsonia. I admit that this is a racist proposition but then again so much is like that, in Barbados.
Adrian Hinds // July 14, 2009 at 10:43 PM
To conquer there must have been a struggle or a contention for supremacy (otherwise the word loses its meaning–it can be a real physical struggle or some sort of mental struggle, which we could say is about ideas), and one side has overcome another.
————————————————
You don’t get to take the word out of it’s senstence and declare to all I have it’s meaning right here, and btw this is exactly what the author intended.
Hoad use the word conquer and with the persuent words “BY STOPPING THE TRANSFER OF VALUES INCLUDING THRIFT AND HARD WORK, FROM THE OLDER GENERATION TO THE PRESENT.”
told us exactly what he meant by its use.
When author uses a word, it’s meaning is fixed. Who are you to change that?
Anonymous // July 14, 2009 at 10:44 PM
Saying Nuttin, you have actually said quite a lot with which I agree.
Adrian Hinds // July 14, 2009 at 10:49 PM
livinginbarbados // July 14, 2009 at 10:27 pm
@AH
“Did I not say, I attempted to demonstrate a pattern where I have seen similar behaviour,BFP? Why does LIB feel that he has to repeat it as if he unearthed a deep secret? Whenever I see activity of the nature that this Video attempted, I will have my say.” [Your attenae vibrate, but not for the same reasons as mine or others perhaps. To mix metaphors, because you smell a rat does not mean that anyone else smells a thing, and whatever they smell might not even be a rat. That's part of the difference between thinking for oneself and acting like lemmings.]
————————————————-
Don’t follow, and I will not with the name calling “lemmings”? I leave you to 199. lol!
livinginbarbados // July 14, 2009 at 10:55 PM
@AH
Hoad’s definition shows he has focused on what I would call ‘ideas’ and ‘ideals’. But the substantive questions posed exist. Who ‘conquered’ the black Barbadian nation? Or are we to think this was self-conquest, which to me is utterly meaningless? And if it were not self conquer, who were the ‘conquerors’. What can the conquered control? Etc.?
You do not need feel compelled to answer, the questions can rest for consideration by others.
Adrian Hinds // July 14, 2009 at 10:56 PM
livinginbarbados // July 14, 2009 at 10:36 pm
@Saying Nuttin
“The NCC like any organisation has to plan organise and schedule.” [True enough, and we can ask if that is done. But, also in certain circumstances planning etc means you have to be ready to deal with the contingency whenever it occurs, especially during certain seasons, and weather systems are often predicted, so there is often some forewarning. Staying here in Boston for a few days, I can imagine that in winter the snow clearing schedule is set in general terms but whenever it snows, the ploughs get rolled out, or if snow is predicted the salting is done ahead of time. It's not left because it inconveniently falls not as scheduled. That kind of action is also what shows a state of preparedness.
The NCC is not a mute and its silence does not mean that it sees no problem. Very few agencies stand up and point the finger at themselves.]
————————————————–
You have no idea of what you speak, but rather than accept that you mouth off nevertheless.
we are now into snow removal contingencies to defend the denegrating of an entire people over a few sea swells, some sand and pebbles on a small area of a boardwalk in Barbados. lol!
livinginbarbados // July 14, 2009 at 11:00 PM
@AH
“Don’t follow, and I will not with the name calling “lemmings”’ [It's simple. You have your line of thinking. Others have theirs. No intention to name call with lemmings, as it usually refers to a form of behaviour of people following mindlessly, ie without thinking for themselves.]
Adrian Hinds // July 14, 2009 at 11:03 PM
@LIB
What substantive question what?????
You took the word conquer out of it’s intended meaning by Hoad and used your interpretation of it to strangle his meaning. I would only seek to answer your “conqest by who?” if you are truly questioning the accuracy of Hoads statement that the tranfer of from one generation to the next was blocked. Are you?
If you don’t want me to respond simply say so or don’t use @AH.
Adrian Hinds // July 14, 2009 at 11:08 PM
livinginbarbados // July 14, 2009 at 11:00 pm
@AH
“Don’t follow, and I will not with the name calling “lemmings”’ [It's simple. YOU HAVE YOUR LINE OF THINKING. Others have theirs. No intention to name call with lemmings, as it usually refers to a form of behaviour of people following mindlessly, ie without thinking for themselves.]
————————————————-
So do I have MY own way of thinking or am I a lemming who follow others mindlessly??????
….give me some credit nuh. At least decided to refuse your offer to meet.
Adrian Hinds // July 14, 2009 at 11:14 PM
@Jah Black
Jah Black // July 14, 2009 at 10:17 pm
Are we to accept that the video shoot was done and posted with the best of intentions?
————————————————
Yes,…and as the video ask of the NCC and I know ask of you “What are you going to do about it”
“NOTHING not one shite” so saith the video. lol!
livinginbarbados // July 14, 2009 at 11:15 PM
@AH
You certainly have your own way of thinking. So, do I.
I have my conclusions and I am comfortable with them.
Snow clearing (or more broadly, dealing with the natural effects of bad weather) and planning are subjects of which I do know plenty–even teach one of them, but that’s a different issue.
No more thinking needed on Mr. Hoad as far as I’m concerned.
livinginbarbados // July 14, 2009 at 11:18 PM
Bottom line on the sand build up on the boardwalk and the drain gulleys is that they are regular occurrences, perhaps of varying severity. Now, some determination has to be made whether NCC has plans and makes provisions to deal with it.
No commentator seems to have made an effort to contacxt NCC, or if they have then no clear answer has been given on the matter of plans and provision.
As I have written about the environmental issues of the boardwalk before, I will contact NCC when I return to Barbados, so that I can know for myself what if anything they have in place to deal with the Hastings boardwalk.
Adrian Hinds // July 14, 2009 at 11:23 PM
Snow clearing (or more broadly, dealing with the natural effects of bad weather) and planning are subjects of which I do know plenty–even teach one of them.
Given the issues we continue to have in with snow removal, and weather forcasting, That might just be the problem. They may be others like you contributing if not causing the problems. lol!
Pat // July 14, 2009 at 11:40 PM
@LIB and John
4-H is an international Youth Service Club. Publicity is how they increase their membership and encourage other youngsters to join.
This is NOT the same as that U-tube video, and you both know it!
I, for the last three years, have spent most of my summer farming for a charity here in my City. For twelve years I raised $$$ for another, is there a video out there on the net? NO.
Hopi // July 15, 2009 at 12:04 AM
@AH……..If Hoad was really gunning for LIB, he did hit the bullseye. Oh and Hoad is white isn’t he…cause I saw so much talk about the white man, I’d swear that was another black ‘racist’ speaking.
@Mongoose….If someone was to translate that into decipherable English, you still won’t get it! Maybe your friend Bowman can help you out.
@Bowman…..I’ll give you your baby bottle and blankie later! So just tuck yaself in tonight. Wahwahwah!
David // July 15, 2009 at 1:26 AM
We have repeated the question if the NCC was informed by the people behind the cleanup not to undermine their effort but to make the point, before there an attempt to do anything which maybe construed as undermining an oversight agency the process should be exhausted FIRST. As a society we start a dangerous trend if Jon Citizenry bypasses oversight agencies as a matter of course. Only if said agency does not respond in a timely manner then all options are open.
Why should we as citizens adopt a position that all government departments are negligent and the other options to highlight issues should taken up first ? If this is the wholesale position to take what does that say about our governance structure and how do we as Barbadians justify the fact that comparatively so we have been able to govern in a way which has led to an orderly society. How can we as Barbadians embrace a culture of bypassing the oversight agencies, what is the fallout of such?
livinginbarbados // July 15, 2009 at 3:00 AM
@Pat
“For twelve years I raised $$$ for another, is there a video out there on the net? NO.” [But other 4H Groups, and other volunteer groups (eg in the USA) do put out YouTube videos (see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-37FYH8gMu4), and/or use Facebook. I guess they do what they feel is appropriate to inform, advocate, and help raise funds. The use or nonuse of public vides (and social networking sites) seems to say more about a willingness to use a technology rather than some philosophical position about what volunteering means.]
199 // July 15, 2009 at 3:30 AM
Dave, has it occured to you that your site could perhaps, be as popular as BFP, or nearly, if you had a white background! Then, to have TWO No.1 sites persuing ITAL might apply even greater pressure on the authorities to introduce it!!
199 // July 15, 2009 at 3:32 AM
Then, we might be able to have that Boardwalk fixed properly!!
livinginbarbados // July 15, 2009 at 6:25 AM
@David
“Why should we as citizens adopt a position that all government departments are negligent and the other options to highlight issues should taken up first ?” [Of course, by moving from one instance to all you pose a bigger problem. But, let that ride for a bit. Let’s say that ‘Time and tide wait for no man’, may be an appropriate phrase in consideration of the right thing for ‘Jon Citizenry’ to do. However, let’s agree that the best first option is to alert the oversight agencies to problems and let them make their best efforts to solve them. The waiting for the solution is obviously not always the best thing to do, of course, if you have means (time and resources) to correct all or some of the problems yourself. That would be performing a good civic duty. In fact, we encourage people to be proactive by not creating problems: eg, do not litter, or if we see litter then aim to dispose of it, rather than waiting for the garbage trucks to arrive. We also encourage active citizenry by often applaud an initiative that has not waited for ‘government to fix it’.
However, if the good citizen alerts then waits, and while waiting the situation deteriorates, what should the next option be and for how long should one tolerate that? I suspect that each person might have a different response, depending on where and when the problems occur. If it is beside your home, I suspect that the tolerance for delay will be shorter than if the problem is far away.
The principle of giving the agencies the opportunity to work may be fine but the practice has some obstacles.
Last time I checked many government agencies do not work 24hours/7 days a week. So, already we have a constraint that could be very awkward (from say 5pm on Friday to 9am on Monday could be a very long time to tolerate a problem).
Let’s assume that the clean up crew in the video did not call NCC. Let’s admonish them for that, and say do not go and clean up again until you have contacted NCC and given them a chance to clean up. Meaning, they cancel the planned clean up on July 19, by the Caribee headland. Will you be satisfied that they are now doing the right thing?
I am not sure if when they cancel other civic minded Barbadians do not then take that as an opportunity for them to fill the gap.
Meantime, I have contacted NCC and will let you know if and when they give replies about maintenance of the Hastings Boardwalk.
I am of the view that some agencies are known to be lacking, say so themselves or we hear responsible government officials say so, and that waiting for them to act may not be hazardous (in Barbados, BWA is one that comes to mind). But, let’s give NCC (and CZMU) the benefit of the doubt, and see how they respond.
livinginbarbados // July 15, 2009 at 6:28 AM
Corrections in capitals:
I am of the view that some agencies are known to be lacking, say so themselves or we hear responsible government officials say so, and that waiting for them to act MAY BE hazardous (in Barbados, BWA is one that comes to mind WITH REGARD TO WATER LEAKS). But, let’s give NCC (and CZMU) the benefit of the doubt, and see how they respond.
Leave a Comment
livinginbarbados // July 15, 2009 at 6:38 AM
Sometimes Jon and Jane Citizen just have to wait and grin and bear it. I will think of how patience is rewarded as I read a few of The Nation’s reports this morning. On roads, http://www.nationnews.com/news/local/LEAD-no-money-to-fix-road–PARLIAMENT-copy-for-web, as the Minister concerned was questioned on the unfinished state of Rockhampton Road, St Thomas, after construction work began on it four years ago. On hospitals, http://www.nationnews.com/news/local/commission-findings-revealed-FRONT-PAGE-OTHER, where the paper’s view is “FAILURE BY THE MINISTRY OF HEALTH to follow best practice procedures in construction was the main finding of the St Joseph Hospital Commission in its inquiry into the defunct St Peter facility”.
Let’s continue to live in hope.
Mongoose // July 15, 2009 at 6:44 AM
@Pat: Do you never get tired of endlessly letting people know how wonderful you are?
@Sayin Nuttin: Just so I’m straight on this. Only Black Barbadians have the right to complain about the Civil Service? If so, they do a very good job because Black Barbadians complain endlessly about the civil service. I just wasn’t aware that no one else was allowed to. Thank You for informing me.
Adrian Hinds // July 15, 2009 at 7:40 AM
Hopi // July 15, 2009 at 12:04 am
@AH……..If Hoad was really gunning for LIB, he did hit the bullseye. Oh and Hoad is white isn’t he…cause I saw so much talk about the white man, I’d swear that was another black ‘racist’ speaking.
————————————————-
Indeed. I would vote for Hoad tomorrow and hope he become the PM of Barbados. I would then ask him to revoke whatever status the part time black man LIB use to enter Barbados. lol!
I have been on facebook Boardwalkgroup, and so far from my reading of the comments on there, it seems like it was a labour of love to clean up the boardwalk. There is talk of making it an event complete with food and drink, advertizing it as an opportunity to exercise etc. The impression I took so far is that there isn’t any big quarrel with the NCC as the video portrays, but I am still reading. If my reading of the comments there continues as shown so far, it would present a big disconnect between the FB forum and the video’s tone and leading comments. I may have to as “mongoose” hinted seperate out the intent of videographer from the actions of the Hastings friends. commitee.
199 // July 15, 2009 at 7:50 AM
LIB, don’t u get tired writing gibberish?!! I know I don’t have to read it and, believe me, I don’t but I’m amazed that anybody would be interested in doing so!!
Adrian Hinds // July 15, 2009 at 7:58 AM
Oh LIB I got it now, where you attempting to suggest that by agreeing with HOAD I was being a “Lemming” which is to be a follower who is unable to think for himself? Well I like many many Barbadians of every hue and colour looks forward to HOAD’S friday article. No shame in so doing. Hoad tells black barbados that their work ethic and productivity is not what it use to be and people uh nuff agree wid him, but you come in cloaked in your part time Black man shield and armour and objects. You aint fooling nun uh we. You aint bajan and it is questionable if you truly see yourself as a black man. Were you not attempting to you use your black man status as a crutch and to attack Hoad? I think so. lol!
Gear Box // July 15, 2009 at 8:00 AM
LIB
Pine Gardens wan’ a board walk too.. I almost get lick down up inside dey …
an’ I din tiefin’ mangas like las’ time…
AAAAAAAAAghhhhhhhhhhhhhh
livinginbarbados // July 15, 2009 at 8:12 AM
@AH
I wrote, I thought clearly, ” You have your line of thinking. Others have theirs.” Therefore, it is clear that I do not see you following anyone’s line of thought. But, you also read what you want to read and focus on what you want to focus. That’s fine too.
livinginbarbados // July 15, 2009 at 8:30 AM
@AH
“I have been on facebook Boardwalkgroup, and so far from my reading of the comments on there…”
[Just so those who doubt that some have a search for truth, but would rather create the truth they seek, there is NO ‘facebook Boardwalkgroup’. But there is a BARBADOS BOARDWALK! group on Facebook, with 720 members (there’s another Barbados Boardwalk page, which seems to be just pictures, no group).
So, was there a slip of the digits on your part? Accidental? Deliberate? Plots and plotters?
Anyway, you say you’ve visited the page, so I will give you the benefit of the doubt. Happy reading.
I wont read all the comments as I have a plane to catch, but I did note one from May: “David with respect to the sand buildup on the boardwalk..NCC should be taking car of that. Interesting that turtles are coming up by Regency Cove as the beach was intertidal there at best prior to the boardwalk. I more expected them down by Magic Isle and certainly not by black Pearl..the sea used to hammer their wall”
When you made the connections or disconnections between the Facebook group and the videographer and the various intentions, do share.
Borrowing from Conan Doyle and Sherlock Holmes: “How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?”
Hard Driver // July 15, 2009 at 8:31 AM
David
A great man once said “Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country”
I can’t believe that you would admonish citizens for trying to help clean up their surroundings !!!
We should be trying to encourage people not to litter and even to clean up other peoples litter if possible.
I remember when a fellow at QEH was suspended for taking it upon himself to repaint the lines in the carpark.
If I had been in charge, I would have tried to harness that spirit and who knows there may have been others who would have volunteered themselves to help clean up that institution.
Government cant do everything !!!
Adrian Hinds // July 15, 2009 at 8:40 AM
@LIB
Ok I did not get the FB group name correct, nevertheless you were able to identify the same exact one I reference. Your point is again? Yes I have been there and I have read quite a bit of it. The one comment you mentioned was made by Carlos Antoine Rowe, someone I have known, but who will not remember me. His comment about NCC were benign when compared with the Titles of the Video. When you get a chance check and see if Adrian Hinds is a member. lol!
livinginbarbados // July 15, 2009 at 8:41 AM
@199
You seem compelled to read, though…
999 would be a good number to use from England. It is the emergency telephone number. Also the name of very good English punk band from Kilburn, whose first single was “I’m Alive”. Kno’ wha’ I mean?
Adrian Hinds // July 15, 2009 at 8:45 AM
Hard Driver // July 15, 2009 at 8:31 am
David
A great man once said “Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country”
I can’t believe that you would admonish citizens for trying to help clean up their surroundings !!!
We should be trying to encourage people not to litter and even to clean up other peoples litter if possible.
I remember when a fellow at QEH was suspended for taking it upon himself to repaint the lines in the carpark.
If I had been in charge, I would have tried to harness that spirit and who knows there may have been others who would have volunteered themselves to help clean up that institution.
Government cant do everything !!!
————————————————–
It was not my intent to display displeasure at the intentions of the actors in the video. But I continue to question the intent of the video which includes it’s sub titles. I too can recall the actions of that painter at the QEH, and thought to myself the actions of his superiors was not the best.
livinginbarbados // July 15, 2009 at 8:51 AM
@AH
I’d found the group already, as I had noted sometime ago. I did not name the person making the qoute (nor will I corroborate it) as the group is meant to be for members. Whether or not someone does not remember you when you remember them is one of those awkward social situations, but I’m sure you can handle it.
The operative word in the video title is “demise” (not ‘demize’, of course), and it seems fitting. You could always give the group and the videographer a suggested alternative title. They may well want all the input they can get.
John // July 15, 2009 at 8:52 AM
Adrian Hinds // July 14, 2009 at 3:03 pm
How do you respond John? Dennis Jones is not a Bajan and could not have been indoctinated by Bajan leaders. Where did he get this “nonsense” about Whites putting down bajan blacks? lol!
++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Liz Thompson’s sentiments expressed in her video and those expressed here are amazingly close.
Here is the link again.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDNQtpP4deU
I suggest that these sentiments and responses are learned from leaders of the 60’s and 70’s who espoused them as well.
Did our leaders invent these sentiments or responses or did they too learn them, … and from whom?
I don’t know, but they surely verbalised them for people who are easily led to follow.
BTW who is Dennis Jones?
It seems you think he is LIB.
I don’t know who he is and what sort of influences he might have come under so cannot answer your question.
199 // July 15, 2009 at 8:55 AM
Listen, when wunna stop talking bout de Boardwalk, tell me!!
David // July 15, 2009 at 9:12 AM
Doing ones civic duty is fine but there are the wider implications of doing so willy nilly.
Adrian Hinds // July 15, 2009 at 9:15 AM
John I ask you a series of simple questions and you rehash Liz telling Richard Goddard where to stuff his threat of international embarressment.
If you think LIB/Dennis Jones comments to Hoad are similar to what Liz made to Richard Goddard, I also think that what Richard threat is being done by BFP and this videographer, and so I don’t fault her. Don’t get me wrong I supported Richard against putting the dump in greenland but I did not support his threat to embarress Barbados.
Dennis Jones is LIB he is a Jamaican who have lived in England for 30 years and the US for 20. It is still a mystery as to what he does for a living in Barbados. lol! So it is not possible that LIB/Dennis Jones comments whom I think you say is similar to the comment Liz made and that you have attributed to learnt behaviour by followers like me, can be the case. So I take it your theory doesn’t hold water.
livinginbarbados // July 15, 2009 at 9:17 AM
@AH
“How do you respond John? Dennis Jones is not a Bajan and could not have been indoctinated by Bajan leaders. Where did he get this “nonsense” about Whites putting down bajan blacks?” [He heard it from some Bajans abroad? He read it in a history book? He saw it on YouTube? He searched on the Internet? A Bajan relative told him so? The Bajan spouse of a Jamaican relative told him so? He extrapolated from other similar situations in the Caribbean? There are many possibilities. But the sands of time are ticking, so perhaps all will be clear in his memoirs.]
livinginbarbados // July 15, 2009 at 9:22 AM
@David
Now, the caveat is ‘willy nilly’. Whose definition of that will be used? Note that Webster’s gives two quite different definitions:
1 : by compulsion : without choice
2 : in a haphazard or spontaneous manner
Anyway, I will leave some thoughts from an Indian whose thoughts and actions I greatly respect, Mahatma Gandhi:
“Why do blacks identify with the Christian religion of their oppressors?”
“The difference between what we do and what we are capable of doing would suffice to solve most of the world’s problems.”
“You must be the change you wish to see in the world.”
“Good government is no substitute for self-government.”
David // July 15, 2009 at 9:25 AM
@LIB
To summarize, you arrived at a position based on observation maybe?
livinginbarbados // July 15, 2009 at 9:30 AM
As for what one does for a living. I thought the idea of paid work was to build a cushion for the future. Our parents often want us to do better than them as a sign of progress. If my parents could retire in their mid-50s after working 30+ years, then that set the bar for me. I hope I have not disappointed my parents.
livinginbarbados // July 15, 2009 at 9:32 AM
@David
To which particular position are you referring? My general views are built from many bases.
Adrian Hinds // July 15, 2009 at 9:37 AM
livinginbarbados // July 15, 2009 at 8:51 am
@AH
I’d found the group already, as I had noted sometime ago. I did not name the person making the qoute (nor will I corroborate it) as the group is meant to be for members. Whether or not someone does not remember you when you remember them is one of those awkward social situations, but I’m sure you can handle it.
The operative word in the video title is “demise” (not ‘demize’, of course), and it seems fitting. You could always give the group and the videographer a suggested alternative title. They may well want all the input they can get.
————————————————–
at time your silliness shines through more than usual. lol!
John // July 15, 2009 at 9:39 AM
Adrian Hinds // July 15, 2009 at 9:15 am
Don’t get me wrong I supported Richard against putting the dump in greenland but I did not support his threat to embarress Barbados.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Here’s the thing with Liz to show just how easily she was led by cabinet.
In an article in the Nation subsequent to her TV appearance she actually admitted that she was against Greenland too and always knew it was wrong.
I’ll look it up and get her actual quote so there can be no misunderstanding.
Do you understand what that means?
The TV debate between her and Richard Goddard really should not even have happened.
Here were two like minded persons.
The only thing that separated them was that one was being led by others who were wrong and the other knew his mind and followed it.
The comment about Caucasian and Black was a learned response to a pressure situation.
She knew she was wrong but to win an argument she threw in the race card to try and say that besides the difference I mentioned before, there was another difference.
As events unfolded, it turned out she played that game with the wrong guy.
The situation here is whether the Boardwalk is being properly maintained.
Obviously some Bajans feel it is not being maintained and have taken to use a form of protest which is relatively new.
The issue of colour is a non issue here in the same way it was a non issue with Greenland.
… and I agree with David’s question, were the NCC contacted first?
Adrian Hinds // July 15, 2009 at 9:40 AM
livinginbarbados // July 15, 2009 at 9:30 am
As for what one does for a living. I thought the idea of paid work was to build a cushion for the future. Our parents often want us to do better than them as a sign of progress. If my parents could retire in their mid-50s after working 30+ years, then that set the bar for me. I hope I have not disappointed my parents.
————————————————-
Oh so you are retired? Jamaica needs you! I hear them uh calling.
Anonymous // July 15, 2009 at 9:40 AM
Wow!
It’s so sad that people can look at a video like this and flip it around and say that it’s racist. It’s merely a group of friends trying to get a point across to other Bajans and the NCC, trying to keep Barbados clean. I’ve seen at many functions, other beach clean ups and CROP-OVER bands only black people….racist??? NO, WHY? It just so happens that they are the majority on this island and i am level headed enough to see that! So why is it that whenever people see a group of white people together, all of a sudden white people are racist, don’t black people mingle with other black people? Maybe they are racist too?
I wish that i could live in this country without being hated because i am white.
I had a man come into my yard uninvited and when my husband asked him too please leave we were cursed and called racist and were told to get out of this country because white people did not belong here. Why don’t i belong here? It makes me so uncomfortable when i go out and people call me whitey, white girl, snowflake and a load of discriminating names and God help me if i ask them not to call me those names because then i’m racist.
People remember we were born here just like everyone else on this island. Why discriminate just because of the colour of someones skin.
It seems to me that the people who are racist are people like most of you blogers who always seem to bring up race in matters where it truly isn’t an issue.
And yes, government can’t do everything. But if you say you’re going to do something, do it. If not, own up and say that your can’t do it and ask for help. Don’t just leave it.
To finish, i just want to say again that this video is nothing more than what you see, a group of friends trying to keep OUR island clean, yes folks of all colour who live here, OUR island.
livinginbarbados // July 15, 2009 at 9:46 AM
@John
I heard about the Liz Thompson ‘Caucasian’ remark soon after I arrived in Barbados. I would not have sought to isolate the criticism to one racial group, if indeed a citizen threatened publicly to embarrass a government. I have never seen the actual remarks by Mr. Goddard. But the notion attributed to him that led the Minister to object and react as she did could easily fall under definitions of sedition, I think (but I am no lawyer).
I have read that Mr. Goddard continues to cross swords with Minister.
Adrian Hinds // July 15, 2009 at 9:49 AM
livinginbarbados // July 15, 2009 at 9:17 am
@AH
“How do you respond John? Dennis Jones is not a Bajan and could not have been indoctinated by Bajan leaders. Where did he get this “nonsense” about Whites putting down bajan blacks?” [He heard it from some Bajans abroad? He read it in a history book? He saw it on YouTube? He searched on the Internet? A Bajan relative told him so? The Bajan spouse of a Jamaican relative told him so? He extrapolated from other similar situations in the Caribbean? There are many possibilities. But the sands of time are ticking, so perhaps all will be clear in his memoirs.]
————————————————-
So LIB you agreeing with John’s assessment of your comments to Hoad? Be reminded that John said such are the words of a follower. Were you wanting to judge me from reflections of yourself? I thought i alone was the “lemming” lol! Isn’t it funny that John see both of us as lemmings as a result of your “black man” retort to Hoad? wuh de hell me and you could ever have in common that John sees? lol!
livinginbarbados // July 15, 2009 at 9:50 AM
@AH
“Oh so you are retired? Jamaica needs you!” [Stricltly speaking, I am not retired, as I am below pensionable age: I have that to look forward to. I resigned my position. My country has me: I'm a citizen.]
livinginbarbados // July 15, 2009 at 9:55 AM
@AH
“at time your silliness shines through more than usual” [But now that you are a member of the Facebook group you can address some of the issues raised about about its lack of black representation, attitudes, intent, etc. and show clearly whether you are welcome or not. I know some of the people who are listed as members and are black Bajans and I will find out from them if they are active, passive, indifferent or otherwise as regards the group’s activities, and what they think of its racial aspects (if indeed they have a view). At worst, you could act as a kind of ‘mole’ (no play on the name Adrian, there) or Trojan horse.
Adrian Hinds // July 15, 2009 at 10:00 AM
John do you fully understand what you are saying? How do you mean she was being led by cabinet? As a miniter of government who is she to be led by? Do you fully appreciate the centrality of mixed governments such as what we have in Barbados. No man is bigger than the party, and All roads lead to me can be explain in great detail with a better understanding of what a mixed government system is all about.
Mess with the wrong guy. Richard Goddard was suppose to scare somebody? EX RCMP big strapping muscular man didn’t seem to faze Liz. Clearly he was losing the argument and sought as most Kids do run to adult (international audiance) when things are not going their way. He got his just deserves.
“Obviously some Bajans feel it is not being maintained and have taken to use a form of protest which is relatively new.”
———————————————–
What exactly are you referring to as new. This wanting to run to an international audiance with everything that is bad about Bimshire?
Adrian Hinds // July 15, 2009 at 10:09 AM
livinginbarbados // July 15, 2009 at 9:55 am
@AH
“at time your silliness shines through more than usual” [But now that you are a member of the Facebook group you can address some of the issues raised about about its lack of black representation, attitudes, intent, etc. and show clearly whether you are welcome or not. I know some of the people who are listed as members and are black Bajans and I will find out from them if they are active, passive, indifferent or otherwise as regards the group’s activities, and what they think of its racial aspects (if indeed they have a view). At worst, you could act as a kind of ‘mole’ (no play on the name Adrian, there) or Trojan horse.
————————————————–
Have no interest in speaking to the issues being dealt with here on the FB group. I have not seen anything there so far that is similar to what I took from that video. In fact had I seen the FB group before the video I would have questions the relationship between the two becuase they don’t seem to speak the same language with regards to the NCC, the demise of the boardwalk, and wanting to paint a very “dirty” picuture of Barbados. Again I see on the FB group page a group of people who are having fun using, and cleaning the boardwalk, and thats a image I would help sell to all and sundry. That kind of positivity is infectous, don’t you feel it? Likewise the badmouthing of Barbados as done by the presentation of that video riles me up to defend the yellow blue. and of course you can’t feel dah lol!
livinginbarbados // July 15, 2009 at 10:13 AM
@AH, John
John wrote:
“I suggest that these sentiments and responses are learned from leaders of the 60’s and 70’s who espoused them as well.”
“Did our leaders invent these sentiments or responses or did they too learn them, … and from whom?”
“I don’t know, but they surely verbalised them for people who are easily led to follow.”
[John says he does not know from where the sentiments came, but has a stab at rationalising them. He's free to do that, but he may not be right. I know clearly from where my sentiments came, and I expressed that in my comments on the Hoad article, explaining quite clearly that if Mr. Hoad had carved the world up on categories other than race/ethnicity, I might have had no issues.]
++
John also wrote “The only thing that separated them was that one was being led by others who were wrong and the other knew his mind and followed it.” [I really do not know if that is true or not. But if it is not, then there may be a wider gap between the two persons than he suggests. I know neither of them, so wont guess.]
As I have also said, Liz Thompson’s remark were too narrowly focused. I don’t know if Mr. Goddard is some kind of modern Guy Fawkes. But, really, when a politician speaks especially to the media do we hold so tightly to the words as pure?
We’ll have plenty of fun looking back on ‘poor rakey’ and ‘past…sell by date’.
Adrian Hinds // July 15, 2009 at 10:14 AM
livinginbarbados // July 15, 2009 at 9:50 am
@AH
“Oh so you are retired? Jamaica needs you!” [Stricltly speaking, I am not retired, as I am below pensionable age: I have that to look forward to. I resigned my position. My country has me: I'm a citizen.]
————————————————–
so when next yuh gine home from foreign? Take your body and go, thou citizen of Jamaica. lol! um is only joke uh mekking, we welcome you as I know you like the idea of being an uber critic in the caribbean and not being threathen with bodily harm as a result. lol!
livinginbarbados // July 15, 2009 at 10:23 AM
@AH
“Have no interest in speaking to the issues being dealt with here on the FB group.” [Well, some would say that your views ought to be expressed to the group lest some of them are oblivious. But, that's your prerogative.]
“Likewise the badmouthing of Barbados as done by the presentation of that video riles me up to defend the yellow blue. and of course you can’t feel dah lol!’ [Jamaica has enough issues with dual citizenship and its citizens allegiance to other countries. I will content myself with warding off attempts by those who wish to sully its name and that of its people and 'wave' as needed the black, gold and green.]
Red Herring // July 15, 2009 at 10:27 AM
Being “black” is more than just looking black.
I am sure that many of you know people, who are black in, but a blind man listening to them, would swear under oath that it was otherwise.
Adrian Hinds // July 15, 2009 at 10:30 AM
John hinted that you may be a follower, just like me, or was it just like Liz, maybe all three of us are. A lawyer, Economist, and a plebe. Wow such esteem company. lol! All three of us are black. The lawyer and Economist made their statement ( unapproved by John) toward White Bajans. But we know that John is hardly a credible adjudicator on matters of race. In other words he real one-sided. lol! lord come fuh yuh world. John when next I am in Bimshire could we share a drink? In a public place of course before dark and I bringing my own drink. ha ha ha lol!
Adrian Hinds // July 15, 2009 at 10:33 AM
Red Herring // July 15, 2009 at 10:27 am
Being “black” is more than just looking black.
I am sure that many of you know people, who are black in, but a blind man listening to them, would swear under oath that it was otherwise.
————————————————-
so it’s no longer a matter solely of ones colour? It could be the colour of the lense the observer is using. What make a herring Red?
Adrian Hinds // July 15, 2009 at 10:35 AM
livinginbarbados // July 15, 2009 at 10:23 am
@AH
“Have no interest in speaking to the issues being dealt with here on the FB group.” [Well, some would say that your views ought to be expressed to the group lest some of them are oblivious. But, that's your prerogative.]
————————————————-
ha ha ha but you are a black man too part time as the case may be, why don’t you take to speaking on my bahalf there? You have shown you are not above such task as you have may have demonstrated that you are above some of us.
Red Herring // July 15, 2009 at 10:36 AM
Being “black” is more than just looking black.
I am sure that many of you know people, who are black in appearance, but a blind man listening to them, would swear under oath, that it was otherwise.
I am also sure that you are aware of non-blacks who would appear to be blacker than most black people.
livinginbarbados // July 15, 2009 at 10:37 AM
@AH
I was born a pleb, stayed at law school only one day, and then tried hard not to be an economist. But, Kismet.
I cannot recall who said something about ‘colour’ (as far as black Americans may be concerned), is a state of mind. Think Bill Clinton (‘first black president’), think Barack Obama (‘not black enough’)…When I speak in French, it’s funny that no one doubts that I am black. Confusion reigns.
A bientot.
livinginbarbados // July 15, 2009 at 10:47 AM
@Red Herring
“Being “black” is more than just looking black” [Oreos and Reverse Oreos are the phrases I have heard used to amusingly try to deal with this issue.]
Adrian Hinds // July 15, 2009 at 10:51 AM
livinginbarbados // July 15, 2009 at 10:37 am
@AH
I was born a pleb, stayed at law school only one day, and then tried hard not to be an economist. But, Kismet.
————————————————
Yuh see Hoad could use this to say productivity and hardwork lost. Yuh still became and economist, But you are not a bajan. lol!
Red Herring // July 15, 2009 at 10:52 AM
Speech in this case is not limited to mere words or accents.
It refers to the beliefs and convictions of the individual, vocalized.
The blind man “sees” with his ears, he hears the passion buried in your heart and frames a picture of you in his mind.
livinginbarbados // July 15, 2009 at 10:52 AM
@AH
“but you are a black man too part time …” [Never thought there was time off, but if you feel that then as some would say, "Knock yourself out". I'll deal with the FB group as I feel inclined (though not strongly). I have some more pressing inland water issues to focus on with BWA.]
Adrian Hinds // July 15, 2009 at 11:06 AM
livinginbarbados // July 15, 2009 at 10:52 am
@AH
“but you are a black man too part time …” [Never thought there was time off, but if you feel that then as some would say, "Knock yourself out". I'll deal with the FB group as I feel inclined (though not strongly). I have some more pressing inland water issues to focus on with BWA.]
————————————————-
I get it LIB. You can tell me what I should be doing, but dare I not suggest to you anything. LIB the man above all others. lol!
Anyway at the top of the blog, Jamaica is batting with the recent statements of it’s PM and actions of it’s parliament facing down some stiff bowling from the commentators. Some are throwing down some stinging statical bouncers that may “murder” the Jamaica lineup of defenders. lol! You are up next. you game? ha ha ha lol!
Adrian Hinds // July 15, 2009 at 11:21 AM
Red Herring // July 15, 2009 at 10:52 am
Speech in this case is not limited to mere words or accents.
It refers to the beliefs and convictions of the individual, vocalized.
The blind man “sees” with his ears, he hears the passion buried in your heart and frames a picture of you in his mind.
————————————————–
so if you are not an emotive speaker the blind wil not “see” you correctly? They would probably think David Estwick was a great orator and Tom Adams was not?
livinginbarbados // July 15, 2009 at 11:28 AM
@AH: In my mind I always make suggestions to others for them to choose. I’ll check to see if i slipped. Game always taste better after it’s well hung.
David // July 15, 2009 at 11:49 AM
@AH
If Liz’s view was not in accord with Cabinet she had the option to resign the position.
Adrian Hinds // July 15, 2009 at 12:09 PM
But David do you recall Liz being fired from de cabinet or was it from her ministry of Health? Did we ever figure what for? Or did it have anything to do with John comment that Liz mess wid de wrong fella (Richard Goddard )
David // July 15, 2009 at 12:15 PM
@AH
Did it not have to do with Liz carrying on then Opposition Leader Thompson scruffy when he requested a tour of Greenland.
Bad Man Saying Nuttin // July 15, 2009 at 12:19 PM
@ mongoose
This is what I said:
I find that it is a fixture of private sector behaviour to imply that government is inherently incompetent.
While government has been lapse in some cases with regards to maintenance the blanket attack on the NCC and the accusations of sloth and incompetence were simply distasteful and appeared more to be focussed at shaming the organisation and sanctifying the clean up crew.
A little humility and a less adversarial approach would go a long way gentlemen.
NB Iaint say a ting bout race, black white or blue so dont ascribe any such intent to my words.
MONGOOSE, HERE IS WHAT YOU SAID :
@Sayin Nuttin: Just so I’m straight on this. Only Black Barbadians have the right to complain about the Civil Service? If so, they do a very good job because Black Barbadians complain endlessly about the civil service. I just wasn’t aware that no one else was allowed to. Thank You for informing me.
—————————
Did you go to school Mongoose?
Did you do comprehension?
If so have you forgotten what it entails?
You classify a statement that disregards race totally and ascribe a racist intent to it. Once anybody disagrees with you, your defensive position is to term their statements racist and targeted at white Barbadians.
Well my statement was targeted at a pattern of behaviour exhibited by some private sector individuals.
You aint got the sense that you born with.
Adrian Hinds // July 15, 2009 at 12:24 PM
David // July 15, 2009 at 12:15 pm
@AH
Did it not have to do with Liz carrying on then Opposition Leader Thompson scruffy when he requested a tour of Greenland.
————————————————–
A blp member get fired for cussing a DLP member? I aint buying dah. Messing wid Richard Goddard according John seem more to be the likely cause.
Adrian Hinds // July 15, 2009 at 12:27 PM
@Bad Man Saying Nuttin // July 15, 2009 at 12:19 pm
You classify a statement that disregards race totally and ascribe a racist intent to it. Once anybody disagrees with you, your defensive position is to term their statements racist and targeted at white Barbadians.
————————————————
They shoot everybody with the racist label in rapid succession. Don’t worry they are all blanks. I should know, I have collected quite a few. lol!
Red Herring // July 15, 2009 at 12:27 PM
Adrian Hinds // July 15, 2009 at 11:21 am
Surely you do not seriously consider what the goodly doctors does, as speaking with emotion.
Remember we were talking about being “black”, it has nothing to do with being an emotive speaker.
Who we truly are and what we believe, is like a firefly in a dark room.
mooks // July 15, 2009 at 1:06 PM
wow, how this video turned into a racist argument is amazing!!! Talk about ignoring the real issue at hand!! For your information a message was posted on a facebook group for the Barbados BOardwalk asking people to volunteer their time on saturday morning early before it gets to hot to clean up the boarwalk until the government can get their butts in gear and this is who showed up OK!!!
You are concerned that their are no blacks? Why did they not show up? I am more concerned about where all the young people are??? thank god for the elderly citizens of Barbados, at least some people show pride in their country!
Barbados we should be ashamed, not one person on here has offered their time for this cause… oh and no comment on the garbage either! WOW
Themis // July 15, 2009 at 1:22 PM
@AH, David is right; she was exceedingly rude to Thompson and Owen decided that it was enough to fire her…of course there was more in the mortar than the pestle in this case…
Adrian Hinds // July 15, 2009 at 2:06 PM
Themis // July 15, 2009 at 1:22 pm
@AH, David is right; she was exceedingly rude to Thompson and Owen decided that it was enough to fire her…of course there was more in the mortar than the pestle in this case…
————————————————-
That was the public reason (platable to all). The private reason may very well have been what John Hinted at. Can you imagine what a fire storm that might have cause, were it given as the real and only reason?
@Mooks:
I plan to send some snow shovels down, I think they would be a better tool to use than the construction shovels wunnuh using. Who should I send them too? I love dah nick name!
Adrian Hinds // July 15, 2009 at 2:11 PM
Red Herring // July 15, 2009 at 12:27 pm
Adrian Hinds // July 15, 2009 at 11:21 am
Surely you do not seriously consider what the goodly doctors does, as speaking with emotion.
Remember we were talking about being “black”, it has nothing to do with being an emotive speaker.
Who we truly are and what we believe, is like a firefly in a dark room.
————————————————–
Emotions run the entire gamit of laughter, seriousness, anger, passion, love, etc you can have shouts of laughter, or shouts of anger etc. all emotions
Who we are as seen by others is the consistent practices we exhibit day in and day out. I don’t know bout this fire-fly ting.
The Scout // July 15, 2009 at 2:54 PM
I understand that the three “powerpuff” girlse Mia, Billie and Liz, called a meeting with Owen and made some demands or else they would resign. The short man was about to accept the resignations and call a press conference to announce the change. The three backed down and Owen then called off the conference but told them anytime they slipped again, he won’t be giving any of them time to resign, he would do the firing. Unfortunately, the weakest in the group slipped first and was used as an example to the other two and any of the others. Yes, i understand it was the handling of the David Thompson’s request to tour Greenland.Owen didn’t care too much who it was, he just wanted to make an example of Liz to stamp his authority. None of them tested Owen again, even though himself and Mia were never on good terms since then. I also heard that he admitted that Liz was indeed a good minister, that’s why when he got the opportunity he reinstated her to a ministry. By then she and all the others had learnt their lesson, don’t mess with the short man.
MaxBlack // July 15, 2009 at 3:35 PM
Um… isn’t Barbados run by black people? Why does everything have to be turned into something about colour? … So would the lack of maintenance be OK if ALL the people in the video were balck? OMG people get real – racism is so ignorant…
Mongoose // July 15, 2009 at 3:39 PM
Mook: 380 posts before yours to finally get the meat of the matter. Well done.
Mongoose // July 15, 2009 at 3:48 PM
If Black Bajans spent 1/10th of the time they devote to seeing “Caspar” around every corner and got down to to the business of being black and running a predominantly black country successfully, this entire item would have been unnecessary. Boo!~
199 // July 15, 2009 at 3:53 PM
Mongoose, d Bajans enjoy a good, little chin-wag from time to time about nothing in particular!! Nutten wrong with it! Jes lef dum alone!!
Adrian Hinds // July 15, 2009 at 4:41 PM
Mongoose // July 15, 2009 at 3:48 pm
If Black Bajans spent 1/10th of the time they devote to seeing “Caspar” around every corner and got down to to the business of being black and running a predominantly black country successfully, this entire item would have been unnecessary. Boo!~
————————————————–
ha ha ha It looks like no matter what we gine have this free and frank discussion on race. lol!
So wait “Casper round de corner” is that the same as the “White Shadows” Fruendel Stuart spoke about during the silly season? lol! John more proof nuh?
But LIB say a
“set of excuses for the maintenance of economic control in the hands of a local white and Indian minority. Political power therefore remains hostage to economic aspects.
Hopi // July 15, 2009 at 6:19 PM
@Hey all you Mooks & Spooks out dey….
the problem with this piece is that ya got a few people hey running that old con game again. They left dem icy cave to come in the SUN and tek a video showing dem tekking sand off de beach and throwing it wey? back pon de beach. De only problem in Barbados ain’t the Guyanese Indians. This bunch hey is very skilled at playing off one group against the other while they stay in the middle and ‘cream’ both groups. So keep ya eye on dem too! Give dem no free ride! Dem post that video on you tube so that they can be seen as performing their environmental duty and that they’ll be excused from the bogus carbon tax. Rocky sure proud of em! Well heehaw! Oh, and I hope that come this weekend when dey gine to clean, that by 0500 hrs, the barometer hit 95 degrees. All over this planet they shit and de only place dem can pretend to clean is de beach in Bimbados? They got a lotta land mines all ova Africa and Asia that dey need to GO and clean up yesterday.
And dey can tek wid dem,all the other boot lickers and house niggas on dis thread.
Mongoose // July 15, 2009 at 6:50 PM
Hopi, normally I can’t even be bothered responding to the absolute crap you post but every now and again you say something that is sooooo blatantly ridiculous that I feel compelled to show you up for the loud mouthed, bullshitter you are.
Quote: “Dem post that video on you tube so that they can be seen as performing their environmental duty and that they’ll be excused from the bogus carbon tax.” Just one question. Is there something wrong with performing your environmental and civic duty? Don’t waste your breath or my time by saying it was done deliberately to embarrass black folks because it has become painfully apparent after 380 some odd posts, that, in fact, was not the case.
Now, I understand how terribly disappointing this must be for you and it certainly appears you are a sore loser, among many other things but how about you just try to take this one very small defeat graciously?
Mongoose // July 15, 2009 at 7:12 PM
Something just occurred to me, Hopi. You seem to be suffering daily, hourly if not moment to moment from the terrible oppression of living in a country where you feel you are being done wrong because of the colour of your skin. Your angst is palpable from every word you type. So the question begs to be asked. Why don’t you make a life altering decision and move to Mother Africa which you speak of so often. Surely in Mother Africa you will be free of the ghastly burden it is to be black in a country that you claim is hell bent on destroying black people and their culture. You could perhaps consider countries such as Rwanda,Uganda or Zimbabwe where every day black governments routinely murder their own people. Perhaps Mugabe would welcome you with open arms. Just a thought.
MaxBlack // July 15, 2009 at 7:20 PM
Yeah – Like people really have time to sit down and say… mmmm how can we belittle black people today?…… doing the right thing, a good thing isn’t about being black, white or yellow – Hopi… why so much hatred brother man? Hatred has no colour, hatred stems from people feeling sorry for themselves and being envious of others’ good deeds… If people don’t ‘upset the apple cart’ nothing gets done…. laziness and lack of interest has no colour … that stems from people not taking responsiblity for themselves and for the things that they should be doing. One love people – that has no colour either…
Hopi // July 15, 2009 at 7:46 PM
@MaxGoose……..Go put on some pink lipstick and give yaselves 2 good wet kisses on ya arses. That’ll work sweetie pies and when ya done, choose any country in the Motherland and I’ll give you 2 a simultaneous back ride over there.
Adrian Hinds // July 15, 2009 at 9:59 PM
@Maxblack:
If people don’t ‘upset the apple cart’ nothing gets done………
———————————————-
Can I use this statement to add more fuel to the race discussion? such a discussion is a worthy cause is it not? ha ha ha
….In the American south (dixie land) it is often said that it is discriminatory for the Federal government aid and abetted by African Americans and North East liberals to demand that they retire the confederate flage and other symbols of their past history. It is their history and they should have a right to it, even if it offends the decendents of persons who were enslaved under the very same symbols.
I have often wondered why there wasn’t much historical artifacts to be found of Barbados in the early 1900, 20’s, 30’s, 40’s, 50’s and even the 60’s. I even remember the GoB encouraging people to hold on to the mementos from yester-year as Barbados nation story will need these pictures, stamps, books, clothing etc from those decades gone by, to build a compeling historic story for future generations to reflect on. So I decided to do my little bit by collecting any all photos of Barbados that I came across on the internet. I found a bunch a while back taken by US navy personel in the 1950’s, some showing north point in it’s heyday. The more of these old barbados photos I collect the more I am reminded of Barbados past with slavery. Now I was born in 1965 and I went to school with whites, Indians and persons with distinctive caribbean accents, and while I read about slavery and knew that I was decendent from slaves I never felt that much different or was made to feel different than the white boys I went to shool with or Dulal from trinidad. So I welcome these vidid reminders of our past. Recently I visited a facebook group dedicated to Old Barbados where over 1000 photos of old Barbados were posted. What a treasure throve I thought. As I went through them I realize that they were for the most part family photos, and it is in these that you see the contrast living standards between blacks and whites back in the 40′ 50’s. I said to myself some people will use these old time pic as if they were taken yesterday, that they will skip over those from 60’s and 70’s where you begin to see a mixing of the races at sunday school, regular school, entertainment etc. I always felt that we as a people should have had this discussion about race a long time ago, but now is as good a time as any.
This is my favourite so far from the lot I have seen. Thanks to those who found a reason to publish them
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#/photo.php?pid=22590&o=all&op=1&view=all&subj=25147899222&aid=-1&id=1725805781&oid=25147899222
I know Hopi gine like this one. ha ha ha ha lol!
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#/photo.php?pid=5416489&op=7&o=all&view=all&subj=32929453984&aid=-1&oid=32929453984&id=508985103
me // July 16, 2009 at 5:59 AM
Ihave not been onhere a while but I see that nothing has really cahnged…
Does Adrian Hinds live in Barbados now or is he still stirring up the pot while enjoying the benefits of Massuchussets?
So sad to see an supposedly intelligent man be so bitter and divisive!
I, a black bajan man and my family use the boardwalk 3 times a week and it is a pleasure, a wonderful addition to the south coast. But it is not being maintained. Period.
Hard Driver // July 16, 2009 at 6:54 AM
I agree with you AH but discussing the race issue and spouting racial hatred is quite different..
Now if we could only get Hopi to see the difference …
I think Hopi has been stuck in his cave for far too long and needs to get out more ..
Barbados really has changed from what he remembers.
Adrian Hinds // July 16, 2009 at 6:55 AM
But me I trying to get people to mix and talk like they do in Massachusetts. Up hey duh don’t hide up nutting or cry racism when people start to ask questions. They does come together and discuss the issues. This is why they are so many benefits up hey. But tell muh dis “me” why you aint respond to the call for volunteers to help clean the place? As a Black man had you turn up, Mook could not say the truth about black barbadians not turning up.
btw did you read my thoughts above? Uh telling lies? We got tuh talk bout dis race ting. Yes we must.
Adrian Hinds // July 16, 2009 at 8:02 AM
ha ha ha Hard Driver, are you a rally fan?
Not only Hopi, but those of us who feel the need to attempt overwhelming a discussion with rapid shouts of that is racist, you are racist ect.. I honestly don’t believe any of you really care who is what, any more than you are interested in stopping the conversation. But we must have this conversation.
@John:
You never got back to me on the following!
“Obviously some Bajans feel it is not being maintained and have taken to use a form of protest which is relatively new.”
———————————————–
What exactly are you referring to as new. This wanting to run to an international audiance with everything that is bad about Bimshire?
———————————————
CAN WE TALK ABOUT THIS NEW FORM OF PROTEST???? because I will speak to it wherever and whenever it occurs as has been done by this video, by BFP and Keltruth. There is to my mind a sickening consistency to the theme, presentation, contents, and OMISSIONS of these appeals to an international audiance. Yes no doubt about it.
MaxBlack // July 16, 2009 at 8:28 AM
Hopi… you go back to the motherland… you think life sweet over there… you wouldn’t last a day… be greatful for where you are…. and try to find some love and peace in your heart… don’t be so ugly man – it ain’t worth it… why should every white person have to be rediculed because of the colour of their skin and because some black people have so much hatred… is that what you were taught… you should be ashamed of yourself… Educate yourself, for the sake of us black people… rise above the hatred… so tell me something.. do you HATE P Diddy or Jay Z or Rihanna ’cause they are millionaires (like Kiffyn Simpson)? Because they work hard to become who they are and enjoy their life… Or because they’re black people… it’s OK for them to be rich and live ‘the good life’….
Livinginbarbados // July 16, 2009 at 8:34 AM
Clearly, much latent distrust and animosity exist between the races in Barbados, though I would not take it that the expressions here are the real representation–there are so few ‘voices’. The speed with which race becomes the pivot may seem startling to some, but is less so if you believe that there are a lot of unresolved issues between the race. However, I have suggested to David that he have a post on the matter of race or have a’venting thread’.
Some can only discuss matters with profanity and personal attacks and those who do not want to dive into that particular pool can try to stand above it rather than descend to that level. We are all ‘leopards’ of a sort and changing spots can be difficult, if not impossible.
BTW, still waiting for a reply from NCC. If I do not hear by Friday close, I will certainly plan to have a shovel at the boardwalk on Sunday.
John // July 16, 2009 at 8:37 AM
Adrian Hinds // July 16, 2009 at 8:02 am
@John:
You never got back to me on the following!
“Obviously some Bajans feel it is not being maintained and have taken to use a form of protest which is relatively new.”
———————————————–
What exactly are you referring to as new. This wanting to run to an international audiance with everything that is bad about Bimshire?
++++++++++++++++++++
Internet, video and Youtube are relatively new media and allow for relatively new forms of protest not seen before.
Livinginbarbados // July 16, 2009 at 8:45 AM
@AH
Good of you to flag those pictures on Facebook. I’ve looked at about 500 of the nearly 1100. My question to those reading this blog and wider is whether a wider pictoral record exists, as those presently posted focus a lot on a very small portion of the country’s population.Notwithstanding that, I will share them with friends who have a love of the Caribbean.
John // July 16, 2009 at 9:06 AM
Adrian Hinds // July 15, 2009 at 10:00 am
Mess with the wrong guy. Richard Goddard was suppose to scare somebody? EX RCMP big strapping muscular man didn’t seem to faze Liz. Clearly he was losing the argument and sought as most Kids do run to adult (international audiance) when things are not going their way. He got his just deserves.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++
Point is he was the wrong guy to mess with because he did not get side tracked when the racist nonsense was raised as was intended.
The Scotland District Association was formed through his efforts and those of other people.
The PM of Barbados, the Minister of Health and the Attorney General were taken to court.
The case put forward for these three to answer was very much the same case you read mself and many others routinely make on the blogs about the PDP which is that the PDP is a statutory instrument and the PM and Cabinet acted ultra vires in changing the use of Greenland from a Zone one water producing area to a landfill/Garbage Dump.
In this respect Richard Goddard was way ahead of his time.
The case was heard by Justice Frank King and dismissed on a technicality.
When the decision was appealed, the GOB insisted on a deposit being made of $60,000.00.
It was at this point that the action stopped.
The GOB went on to spend $50 million of taxpayers’ money and to date not a single pound of garbage has been delivered to Greenland.
How much more embarrassing could this be for the GOB, …. and all accomplished without Richard Goddard’s help.
I would say the taxpayers of Barbados are the losers.
Guess as you say we got our “just deserves”, to use your description, for letting GOB get away.
The West Coast, misuse of agricultural land and other aberrations all are part of the “just deserves” we got for not calling the GOB to account in 1994/95 before it got into its stride.
The story is there if you want to read it.
…. and the point is the racist talk did not sidetrack Richard Goddard as I hope it won’t the citizens who have decided to take action to improve the maintenance of the boardwalk.
Greenland and this issue have many similarities, particularly the race talk, but more especially both are aimed at calling the GOB to account and insist it do its job!!
Negroman // July 16, 2009 at 9:08 AM
Hopi my brother stay the course and expose the foolishness that comes from the likes of Maxblack,Mangoose,Living In Barbados & the rest.
When the atrocities,the deceit & all the other injustices that sub-human race of people the stinking white Europeans are exposed & dissected,we have a whole set of anti-black blacks like Maxblack rushing to defend that horrible set of people..
If the act of cleaning the Bordwalk was genuine there would not have been any reason to put in on Youtube and to look to get any public relations benefits from the exercise.Many civic acts are perform daily by quite a few genuine Barbadians and those acts go unreported.
Hopi I agreed with you let those white destroyers of this world go and clean up the mess the marauding killing,disease carrying White Europeans unleashed on Africa,Asia & The Americas.
Stinking White Europeans are the destroyers of this world and no little effort of sweeping sand off the Boardwalk can repay the unfortunate other ethnic groups especially The Black Africans from the atrocities perpetrated by the killing White Europeans.
John // July 16, 2009 at 9:29 AM
Livinginbarbados // July 16, 2009 at 8:45 am
@AH
Good of you to flag those pictures on Facebook. I’ve looked at about 500 of the nearly 1100. My question to those reading this blog and wider is whether a wider pictoral record exists, as those presently posted focus a lot on a very small portion of the country’s population.Notwithstanding that, I will share them with friends who have a love of the Caribbean.
++++++++++++++++++++++
Nicholas Abbey used to show a home movie made in the late 1930’s I think.
A relative of the the late Colonel Cave recorded what he saw as he travelled up to Nicolas Abbey from the careenage.
It has been some years since I saw it but I think this may have a bit of what you want to see.
There are also various books of photos of life in old Barbados like “Side by Side” published over the past 10 years and available in bookstores in Barbados.
One of the writers was Ann Watson Yeats (hope I spelt the name right) but there are others.
Livinginbarbados // July 16, 2009 at 9:37 AM
@John
“Greenland and this issue have many similarities, particularly the race talk, but more especially both are aimed at calling the GOB to account and insist it do its job!!” [Well said. Calling a government or those in power in the public and private sector to book should never be something that a caring citizenry shies away from. The mecanisms are not always there or effective, and that naturally leads to other routes being sought.
When I look at the subsequent comment I see that talk is indeed cheap.
Before people denigrate someone else for their racial make up I think they had better get their DNA checked. In the Caribbean, the adage that we are all cousins rings very true.
One of the arguments that holds much sway in Guinea for why that country has stayed away from ethnic strife at the level of the populace (leaders have tried to set ethnic groups against each other) is that most people can find that there are very few degrees of familial separation, and no one wants to have the blood of his/her family on his/her hands.
Livinginbarbados // July 16, 2009 at 9:45 AM
@John
“Nicholas Abbey used to show a home movie made in the late 1930’s I think….” [Thanks. That would make for some even more interesting visits for myself and some of the tourists who drop by my house. I'm one of those who supports a greater push for highlighting the islands' heritage--the good, the bad, and the ugly. I'm having a hard enough time getting my dad to share his memories of the past 80 years, but there is much pain and bitterness amongst the sweet, but it's good to pass on to my children.]
Livinginbarbados // July 16, 2009 at 10:07 AM
A friend (very dark skinned Barbadian, for those who think it may have relevance) just sent me a message that she visited the Boardwalk on Monday with her sons. She reports that “the sand has settled on portions which will need clearing by a back hoe. Impossible to complete the task manually.”
John // July 16, 2009 at 10:30 AM
LIB
One of the arguments that holds much sway in Guinea for why that country has stayed away from ethnic strife at the level of the populace (leaders have tried to set ethnic groups against each other) is that most people can find that there are very few degrees of familial separation, and no one wants to have the blood of his/her family on his/her hands.
….. also
Before people denigrate someone else for their racial make up I think they had better get their DNA checked. In the Caribbean, the adage that we are all cousins rings very true.
+++++++++++++++++++++++
I went through the microfilms at UWI with the lists of slaves and their origins. Ancestry.com now has them available on the net.
I found some slaves listed as both coming from Africa (not born in Barbados) and coloured.
I interpret this to mean that those slaves who were both African and coloured brought with them European blood in their veins from Africa as a result of centuries of mixing of their ancestors with Europeans.
David // July 16, 2009 at 10:55 AM
We see the hits/visits whenever the subject of race is discussed. This says alot!
Some may bring the issue of DNA into the equation and rightly so but Barbados is a peculiar society when classism is factored.
Livinginbarbados // July 16, 2009 at 11:18 AM
@John
“I found some slaves listed as both coming from Africa (not born in Barbados) and coloured.
I interpret this to mean that those slaves who were both African and coloured brought with them European blood in their veins from Africa as a result of centuries of mixing of their ancestors with Europeans.” [I'm not clear on how to interpret the term 'coloured', but no great issue. We can presume that 'African' means negro, and perhaps 'coloured' means a whole bunch of others (Moors, for example; the slave trade from west Africa had extensive sources).
Depending on which view of the origins of humans you take you have a hard time figuring out racial origins. If you take some of the modern works, such as Jared Diamond ('Guns, germs and steel...') you will be a believer that Eur-Asians were the major human movers, come west from the east, and then developing differences in pigmentation, lifestyles etc.
For those who have not experienced some of this, I recommend they read about the relationship between Sanskrit and many European languages. One outcrop of this was being on mission with an Indian colleague who found he was able to understand a good proportion of a European language he had never learned, but which has roots in Sanskrit, which he knew.
I take great care. Parts of Jamaica, with their blond, curly haired mulattos with blue eyes, are just one indication of how we mix up. I will also point to the recent case of the family that has three children born of the same parents who are all different colours (see http://www.jerseyfaves.com/blog/?p=401, and http://www.gbmnews.com/articles/3533/1/Germany-Black-and-white-twins-born-to-the-same-mother/Page1.html). Again, no expert but there is very interesting research that shows what genetic strand combinations lead to skin colour and how the outcome is determined by which of the parents has the 'dominant' strand.
Let's leave it there as far as skin colour goes, and we can explore further on mental colour maps.]
John // July 16, 2009 at 12:41 PM
David // July 16, 2009 at 10:55 am
We see the hits/visits whenever the subject of race is discussed. This says alot!
Some may bring the issue of DNA into the equation and rightly so but Barbados is a peculiar society when classism is factored
++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I think classism stems from earliest times when two distinct classes of persons were recognised and spoken of, Negroes and Christians.
Other classes existed, Quakers, Jews and servants but in the main there were these two classes of people.
Quakers and servants would have been recognised as Christians but probably not Jews who practised their own separate religion.
Here is a link which speaks to these two classes of persons taken from Ligon in 1649.
http://nationalhumanitiescenter.org/pds/amerbegin/power/text8/LigonBarbadosSlavery.pdf
Over time, Negroes became Christians and integrated into the European “culture” that existed.
The processes which saw this integration gave rise I think to the classism of which you speak.
It appears to me from my reading that a Christian was defined as a member of the Anglican Church.
What I have found from spending time in the Archives is that Negroes became Christians (members of the Anglican Church) from earliest times.
So there were slaves, who were Christians.
Some Negroes were freed from slavery a century or more before emancipation and then regularly in the period leading up to emancipation.
They became Free Negroes (FN) and had all the rights of free men, even owning slaves and property.
Some of these joined and were accepted into the Anglican Church, becoming Christians.
There was also some mixing between Christians and Negroes which resulted in Mulattoes.
Some Mulattoes were freed and became known and referred to in the records as Free Mulattoes (FM).
So there were Christians from England, Christians who were also Free Negroes, Christians who were Free Mulattoes and, Christians who were slaves, whether Negro or Mulatto.
I think this gave rise to the classism of which you speak.
The Anglican Church effectively gave rise to different ranks of Christians which I think are the genesis of the different classes that exist today.
I have purposely not used the terms white or black because I do not believe these terms accurately reflect the differences in classes that exist in Barbados.
The status of slave was passed from mother to child.
Thus the child of a slave mother automatically became the property of the owner of the mother.
So, how would a Christian, whether he was of English origin, or a FN or a FM or a slave deal with having a child with a slave, or even considering marrying a slave?
The answer is that I have found no one answer.
It depended on circumstances.
I suspect however that many male Christians who were also free avoided liasons with slaves where possible for this reason and stuck with female Christians who were also free and from their own rank or class of Christian.
I am a far way from understanding the intricacies of the origins of class in Barbados and offer these opinions which I am in the process of forming to be slaughtered … or otherwise.
I suspect there are alot of answers and some can be found in the old church records.
Red Herring // July 16, 2009 at 6:21 PM
Now we begin to see the real reason for the latent hostility and mistrust among the races, even if some would rather pretend that it is not so.
It does not help matters when one race continues to excel in the economic class and another is seemingly doomed to be forever at the bottom of said class.
It is even more difficult, when one consider that those at the bottom of the class, constantly support those at the top, who in turn, though grateful, seldom reciprocate.
Very little interaction of the races exists outside of this relationship.
Racism or Class-ism in Barbados?
Six or half dozen?
Hopi // July 16, 2009 at 6:46 PM
@Negroman…….Yes we will stay this course. You see, I know that what I say make these sap-suckers uncomfortable, so being the cowards that they are, they attack me. But my skin is Black and Thick. So bring it on!
MiniBlack……….You keep saying oh go back to Africa, go back to Africa. Let me tell you a little something…. THE BEAST IS ALL OVER THIS PLANET. It is the minority on this planet, yet it has all its apparatus in place to subordinate us. What also make it successful is that it has clearly indoctrinated minds like yours. THE BEAST IS EVERYWHERE! He has his satellites in place, his RFID chips, his human spies, his uncle & auntie toms just to name a few.
Anonny Muss // July 16, 2009 at 9:44 PM
This is my first and probably only comment, so I hope it contributes.
Racism or Class-ism in Barbados?
Six or half dozen?
————
Some of us black Bajans don’t even like ourselves. We have to start there. I’m not saying this is everybody’s opinion or even a majority but I know it exists. The lighter (closer to white) somebody is, the prettier they are. The more curly or wavy (closer to white) somebody’s hair is the better it is (good hair vs. bad hair).
Everything is rolling in this continuum from bad (black) to good (white). White people being racist to us is one thing, but doing it ourselves is yet another. The slave master convinced us that we were less, that our place was to be inferior. Over 150 years after the end of slavery in Barbados some of our minds are still in these chains. This contributes to racism and racial tension.
RN // July 17, 2009 at 1:34 AM
Am I the only white person here who’s a little uncomfortable with this video?
Sure, the Boardwalk’s a mess, and something needs to be done. And I understand the need to get a reaction, to draw the public’s attention.
But the video-makers should surely have realized that they were sending out a pretty explicit and frankly (if I were black) insulting visual message: that the Government (which we all know is black) doesn’t – in their words – give a shite about the environment, and that only certain people – like the whites in the video – can be bothered to do anything about it.
Now, I’m not suggesting for a moment that was the intention. In fact I very much doubt that it was. A bunch of people just wanted to do something about something they care about, and get a bit of public exposure for their cause.
But that doesn’t change the fact that the composition of the tape as it stands is at best insensitive and naive in its perpetuation of coded racial sterotypes (blacks don’t care about the environment, etc), at worst insulting to the many black Bajans who do care very much.
And you don’t have to be a black bigot like negroman or his comical little sidekick Hopi to see that.
199 // July 17, 2009 at 3:29 AM
RN, there’s nothing offensive about the video. I assume Barbadians would n’t be so sensitive about a group of people just doing a kindly act. Presumably, they could just as easily have been black Barbadians. My objection is to them being in Barbados, in the first place, when you’ve probably spent your lives being racially, prejudiced and racially discriminatory, against black people! Why should we now provide a refuge for you in your later years! I’d be more than happy for white people to live among us if so many of them were n’t such racist **** but, the fact is, at least here in the UK, that so very many of them are!!
Technician // July 17, 2009 at 6:57 AM
And you don’t have to be a black bigot like negroman or his comical little sidekick Hopi to see that.
………….
Hmmmm…you can see it and so many others BUT you still have to label people….your hypocrisy has no bounds.
crossroads // July 17, 2009 at 9:39 AM
I thought that when Obama became president he was gine solve all ya black people problems. oh well guess i was wrong. People stop living in the past, an get on with ya life. lol
Adrian Hinds // July 17, 2009 at 9:51 AM
So Hopi when you replace all white people and leaders who you gine replace them with? Black leaders? or people gine lead themselves. If black leaders, where are they? chuspe
John // July 17, 2009 at 10:17 AM
Red Herring // July 16, 2009 at 6:21 pm
It does not help matters when one race continues to excel in the economic class and another is seemingly doomed to be forever at the bottom of said class.
++++++++++++++++
… but it isn’t only one race that excels in economic class.
There are examples of excellance from the other race you refer to as being at the bottom of the class.
That’s one of the reasons I don’t think the explanation is as simple as black and white.
Understand some of the reasons and processes behind the shades of grey and you will begin to understand the complex society that exists in Barbados and what makes it tick.
…. and although I can rant and rave about its evils when I am ready, I think that the society is magic.
It would have been so easy to have ended in bloodshed long long ago.
The Christians of the 1600’s from England had some serious divisions and routinely killed one another in England.
The English hated the Irish and vice versa and likewise the Welsh and Scots.
.. add Negroes who were forcibly brought here, like the Irish Welsh and Scots and you get a powder keg, a recipe for disaster.
…. but it did not happen.
Somehow everybody figured out a way to live together in relative peace and calm and build the country we have today …. like survivors of a sinking ship who ended up in a moses and worked together for survival because they had to.
RN // July 17, 2009 at 10:56 AM
Technician
You are mistaken, or just muddle-headed. No hypocrisy on my part.
I’m not “labelling” a whole race. Just refering to two exlicitly prejudiced anti-white commentators on this blog.
Negroman // July 17, 2009 at 1:15 PM
RN & all the other stinking, disease carrying White killing bastards all of you all cannot believe that there are Black People in this world who are willing to stand up & mount a challenge to all of you all.
Stinking White people still have the belief that no Black person should dare stand up & challenge them.It is a belief of the White killing Europeans that the killing,torture and the beatings that we as a Black Race of African People endured during three hundred & fifty years of slavery had caused us to fear The White man and to be intimidated by him.
No,No No that has not worked on some of us.
This Negroman fears no sub-human half make disease carrying stinking White person.I eyeballed all White People I come in contact with and that makes the White bastards uncomfortable because White People have the notion that all Black People are fearful of them and all Black People must look up to them.
RN,Jack Bowman,Mangoose and the rest we have some strong real Black Men & Women who are willing & able to stand up & defend the beautiful Black African Race from the lies & damn lies the despicable,dishonest,lazy White Europeans have spread for the last three hundred years or so.
The false institutions such as the church,the economic,& financial models & the political systems are being dismantle daily and the falseness of those institutions are being left bare for all to see.
Hopi // July 17, 2009 at 1:30 PM
@RN……So you go and reduce my status from RACIST to BIGOT. Not much power in being a bigot..is there? As a racist I’d be able to lay waste sovereign nations just on the whim of a lie. [How does that saying go..'it takes one to imagine one'].
@AH……..Seems like you inhaling too much bleach yea. Is that foam at your mouth?
Livinginbarbados // July 17, 2009 at 2:27 PM
May I suggest that rather than invent any more statements, the following can be taken as representative of everyone’s feelings, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dib2-HBsF08? “I’m as mad as hell and I’m not gonna take this anymore…Things have got to change.”
Oyster Catcher // July 17, 2009 at 2:50 PM
Check out this, folks: First, Jack Bowman on BU, admitting that he is Ian Bourne. Then check out Pied Piper (the female half of Sargeant) on BFP, and get yourselves a good giggle.
Jack Bowman // July 13, 2009 at 6:33 pm
@ “Adrian Hinds”
“Adrian Hinds” asked: “Wait Jackie Bowgirl is really Ian Bourne?”
That’s right. I’m Ian Bourne in Barbados. And who are you in the United States, you comical little subliterate racist dullard?
All best wishes to you and yours
PiedPiper
July 17, 2009 at 10:30 am
“They” and by “they, I mean the folks that come over here from BU just to agitate, also believe that you are Jack Bowman, Ian even though it is fairly obvious that Jack hales from the U.K. and your writing styles are completely different. But hell some of those folks over at BU are just so darn clever and never tire of patting themselves on the back.
So, Pied Piper/Sargeant/Porter, you mean that the BU folk are darn clever, and “racist swine” at the same time? Pretty tall handle, that. Ent people cud mek yuh laugh, do!
PiedPiper // July 17, 2009 at 3:34 PM
Oyster Catcher aka Diggit: You seem to have a hard time identifying sarcasm when you see it.
Red Herring // July 17, 2009 at 6:26 PM
John // July 17, 2009 at 10:17 am
Red Herring // July 16, 2009 at 6:21 pm
It does not help matters when one race continues to excel in the economic class and another is seemingly doomed to be forever at the bottom of said class.
++++++++++++++++
… but it isn’t only one race that excels in economic class.
*********************************
I do not see “only” written anywhere in my above statement .
“There are examples of excellance from the other race you refer to as being at the bottom of the class.”
Yes there are examples, but these are just representative of a distorted picture.
How were you immediately able to deduce the race at the top, and the one at the bottom, of the economic class in Barbados?
“Somehow everybody figured out a way to live together in relative peace and calm and build the country we have today …. like survivors of a sinking ship who ended up in a moses and worked together for survival because they had to.”
Some may have become disillusioned in the ensuing years.
crossroads // July 17, 2009 at 7:14 PM
Are u lacking attention Negroman, u need therapy, ur mind is warped and angry, sound like u need a hug, i feel sorry for u………hhmmm
RN // July 18, 2009 at 3:15 AM
True, Hopi. I demoted you to being a mere bigot.
I’m not convinced blacks can – strictly speaking – be called racist. Hating another race isn’t racist. Racism is linked to economic/social/political systems of oppression that have been historically determined.
So yeah, judging from your posts you’re just prejudiced, a bigot.
Though in the spirit of post-Obama interracial harmony (and because I’m in a good mood), I’ll call you a racist if it makes you feel better.
Let me know.
One difference between you and negroman is that you at least sound sane. He seriously doesn’t.
Which makes me wonder: do they have access to the internet down at the psychiatric hospital?
John // July 18, 2009 at 3:28 PM
Red Herring // July 17, 2009 at 6:26 pm
How were you immediately able to deduce the race at the top, and the one at the bottom, of the economic class in Barbados?
++++++++++++++++++++++++
.. lucky guess.
John // July 18, 2009 at 11:04 PM
Red Herring // July 17, 2009 at 6:26 pm
“Somehow everybody figured out a way to live together in relative peace and calm and build the country we have today …. like survivors of a sinking ship who ended up in a moses and worked together for survival because they had to.”
Some may have become disillusioned in the ensuing years.
++++++++++++++++++++++
Naturally, but the moses is still a moses.
How do we make the moses into a bigger more powerful boat?
Adrian Hinds // July 19, 2009 at 12:55 AM
Hopi // July 17, 2009 at 1:30 pm
@RN……So you go and reduce my status from RACIST to BIGOT. Not much power in being a bigot..is there? As a racist I’d be able to lay waste sovereign nations just on the whim of a lie. [How does that saying go..'it takes one to imagine one'].
@AH……..Seems like you inhaling too much bleach yea. Is that foam at your mouth?
————————————————–
Man Hopi don’t break ranks. We is still we, and we got a lot of work to do. ha ha ha lol!
Hopi // July 19, 2009 at 11:31 AM
Well just the other morning, there was a piece on the BBC reporting on two barges of filth, shipped to Brazil from where?……Engurland! They get to use up the world’s resource, pollute and then ship their garbage off to ‘developing’ countries. Now ain’t that a son offa bytch?
@RN……This is the same thing I preach day in and day out. You want all the ‘power’ for you and your kind. From a racist to a bigot! No power at all.
Should I take your “sound sane” as a euphemism for “truth or reality?”
@AH……”Man Hopi don’t break ranks.” Now can you imagine we at war and having you in my camp…I done lost! Cause you gine give way my position to the enemy!
Hopi // July 19, 2009 at 11:37 AM
And BTW….the Brazilians vowed to return those 2 garbage filled barges to the Queen and I say ‘good for them.’
David // July 19, 2009 at 11:47 AM
A BU family member wanted to share the following article:
Britons turn out en masse for ‘The Big Lunch’
REUTERS 19 July 2009, 07:19pm
LONDON: Tens of thousands of Britons came together for outdoor lunch parties up and down the country on Sunday, celebrating the first ever
“Big Lunch” festival, an effort to build community spirit. From Liverpool in the northwest, where about 5,000 people sat down to eat, to dozens of sites across London and at small gatherings as far away as Barbados and the Virgin Islands, organisers said up to two million people joined the party. “People have really come out and said ’sod it’ to all the bad news that’s going on and decided just to have a nice lunch with their neighbours,” said Rhona Hurcombe, a spokeswoman for the festival and the organiser of one lunch in London.
Read Full Article
Hopi // July 19, 2009 at 12:53 PM
Well, look how de people get hoodwink again. De same people that create the crisis, have their minions/lackeys working within the community to organise a little eat out party, have the sheeple forget their troubles JUST for a minute, all the while giving the crooks more time to drain the jugular of the suckers. Sheeple this is no time to party. They are playing with you. Instead of partying you should be directing your anger at these bastards and turn all of em out.
This is more than a big lunch, this is the BANKERS BANQUET.
Oh you suckers!
crossroads // July 19, 2009 at 4:58 PM
What do u want Hopi? What would satisfy u? Everytime someone gives u the other side of an opinion where people are making an effort for a better world, u must find negative in their offerings. u will never be satisfied in ur life and thats sad. Don’t get me wrong, life ain’t perfect, however people of all races are trying. Sorry to say but the world is moving on without u.
Mongoose // July 19, 2009 at 5:07 PM
M I S E R A B L E
Hopi // July 19, 2009 at 7:51 PM
I WANT MONGOOSE TO CROSSTHEROAD!
RN // July 20, 2009 at 2:55 AM
Hopi
If you believe that European imperial/colonial history had a profound and long-term impact – social, psychological and economic – on the developing world (some of the effects of which are still in evidence today), then I have no argument with you.
But if you extrapolate from that to believe that ALL of the developing world’s problems can be blamed on “the white man”, then we disagree.
Let me ask you a straight question, man to man: would you say your attitude to white people is identical to negroman’s?
Negroman // July 20, 2009 at 10:55 AM
Crossroad & RN Yes I am an angry black man.As a matter of fact all right thinking black men should be angry as hell with the world as it is today.
Yes I am angry at the destruction of Africa brought on by the killing European invaders who raped the continent and still continue to rape the great continent of all its resources including its people.
Yes I am angry as hell at the stolen wealth the stinking Europeans amassed at the expense of Africans.
Yes I am angry that for 350 years of slavery the sweat,tears & blood of my enslaved fore-parents built the wealth that the thieving lazy Europeans have today.
Yes I am 1 angry black man.
I am in a stable relationship with my sweet,adorable ,gorgeous,sexy BLACK WOMAN.She gives me enough cuddles & kisses I could ever want.I need no stinking,smelly,disease ridden White trash for a woman.I worked in the hotel industry for over twenty years and in that period of time many degenerate white women literally threw themselves at me.I have rejected their advances for all of those years because I WILL never go to bed and have sex with any white trash for a woman.
The sex starve white trash women come to Barbados and will allow any & everybody to have sex with them
Crossroad & RN go & try to satisfy your white women so as not to allow them to seek sexual satisfaction with black men.
crossroads // July 20, 2009 at 1:07 PM
I enjoy your pointless mud slinging Negroman, which generally is what people do when fighting a weak argument. I’m not sure how you got into discussing having sex with women. Is this something that you think about a lot? I do find it intresting that u worked in the hotel industry for 20 years. That must have been hard for u serving all those “white tourist”. Did u lose any sleep over this? Oh crap, I just relized i’m mud slinging just like u, so I better go now.
PS: Are any of the girls dancing in the school video your daughters? and, Is this the culture u wish white people to embrace? good luck and bye for now….
Anonymous // July 20, 2009 at 1:16 PM
Negro man dont mind them ya right!
They cant believe that blacks have the balls to say these things!
LOL! Ya right NM!
Save Mullins Bay // July 20, 2009 at 8:32 PM
“State Of The Beach At Road View 2 Months On” – http://shar.es/dI99 -
Adrian Hinds // July 20, 2009 at 9:29 PM
The British are such sad people. A people searching for relevance. As most things wrong in this world they have had a hand in creating it.
Hopi // July 20, 2009 at 11:55 PM
@RN…….Oh I could never blame all the ‘developing’ world’s problem on the white man…..just the ‘under-developed.’ Did you know that before a white man walked on asphalt or wore a suit, there were highly developed empires on the Black Continent?
My problem isn’t the white man you know, its with US. We seem to ‘thrive’ in IGNORANCE! We aid and abet the enemy in our destruction.
How many plans are out there to systematically destroy the Black race?
How many plans are out there to systematically destroy the white race?
Hopi // July 21, 2009 at 12:04 AM
@Another thing RN. Would you call this ‘dog eat dog’ mess in which we live development, where the nurturing of the spirit is sacrificed at the altar of immediate individual physical gratification?
And how did we get here?
Bimbro // July 21, 2009 at 1:55 AM
Adrian Hinds // July 20, 2009 at 9:29 pm
The British are such sad people. A people searching for relevance. As most things wrong in this world they have had a hand in creating it.
***********
Adrian, I’m not sure I’d agree with u, prior to Tony Blair, without examples however, you now have the prospect of him becoming the first Prsident of a United States of Europe and all the power which that will bestow upon him! How scary is that!
RN // July 21, 2009 at 2:29 AM
Hopi
Europe’s present-day economic power and (you would call it dubious) prestige is the direct result of centuries of exploitation of the people and resources of large parts of sub-Saharan Africa.
Europe’s industrial revolution(mentioned by a previous poster) and the concomittant rise of capitalism couldn’t have happened without the infrastructural wealth provided in large part by the Atlantic slave trade.
All this is historical fact (accepted by all reputable historians, whether they’re black or white), and one reason why the notion of reparations is unquestionably morally (if not necessarily practically) valid.
Of course, it shouldn’t surprise anyone that Europe’s elite class carved up black Africa: they’d had hundred of years of experience in oppressing and exploiting their own (white) masses.
A bit like today’s African elite class exploiting their own (black) masses.
And I guess this is my question to you:
Don’t you think the key issue isn’t so much colour/race, but class? And that
powerful entrenched hegemonies – black, white or brown – will always try and exploit the less powerful?
Incidentally, yes – I know of the 15th/16th century kingdoms of Ife and Benin.
Apologies if I haven’t addressed all your points. It’s late, I’m knackered.
RN // July 21, 2009 at 2:37 AM
Adrian Hinds // July 20, 2009 at 9:29 pm
The British are such sad people.
===========================
Facile generalizations like this are worthless.
You might as well say that Bajans are such fat people…
livinginbarbados // July 21, 2009 at 4:14 AM
Though I do not take Wikipedia as the centre of all knowledge, I attach the following, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Djenne.org, so that the history tour does not get stalled too early. Ironically, yesterday, a German archeologist, who was living in Barbados for a few years until recently and doing some research in the Caribbean while his wife did some other things like finding funding for local projects here, has just returned to west Africa and sent me some of his pictures from Djenne, in Mali. I hope you know your history back a couple of thousand years, and don’t let the new imperialists make you believe that they invented how to rule.
livinginbarbados // July 21, 2009 at 4:20 AM
The link was garbled in posting (cannot handle foreign accent signs), try http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Djenne. If not better, just head to Wikipedia.
Hopi // July 21, 2009 at 12:58 PM
@RN……”Don’t you think the key issue isn’t so much colour/race, but class?”
NO! NO!
You see Class usually discriminates along economic lines whereas discrimination by Race/Colour runs the whole gamut and Race/Colour discrimination has wasted far more lives than class discrimination.
Livinginbarbados // July 21, 2009 at 2:23 PM
@Hopi
“Race/Colour discrimination has wasted far more lives than class discrimination” [Give us the facts on this. I'd like to believe what you say, but no conjecture, please.]
Save Mullins Bay // July 22, 2009 at 12:05 PM
“Catching Sprats To Hunt Bigger Game” – http://shar.es/l63d -
Anonymous // July 22, 2009 at 1:59 PM
LIB
It hurts that you cannot ever deny that YOUR KIND brutalised Africa.
Facts shite!
Facts stare us in the face every day fooollll!
Adrian Hinds // July 22, 2009 at 3:00 PM
RN // July 21, 2009 at 2:37 am
Adrian Hinds // July 20, 2009 at 9:29 pm
The British are such sad people.
===========================
Facile generalizations like this are worthless.
You might as well say that Bajans are such fat people…
————————————————-
This would not be lie. Former Minister of Health, Dr. Hoyos, and others have pointed out at various time in the last 5 years that there is obesity epdemic, or that a very high percentage of women over 40 yrs are obese, or that that we are eating ourselves to death. Indeed Barbados is a very fat country. Check Vic Fernandes, Mia Mottley or any of the current ministers of goverment and note to weight they have put on.
Adrian Hinds // July 22, 2009 at 3:11 PM
Somehow everybody figured out a way to live together in relative peace and calm and build the country we have today
————————————————
Is that really true John? Everybody? Why would everybody agree to the restrictions that place on certain people “hawking”. Was Bussa part of this everybody? how about those that riot and those that died in 1937?
RN // July 22, 2009 at 3:20 PM
Adrian Hinds, I like you man, you’re a funny guy…
Adrian Hinds // July 22, 2009 at 3:21 PM
@LIB
Could you explain the following, are they your words, thoughts and beliefs?
[Anyway, it helped me discover that the greatest threat to Barbados is not from illegal Guyanese running rampant and getting all the lack of service from the QEH that was on offer and living 40,000 to a room and sending all of their money back to Georgetung. The real threat is from the hordes of half naked, or strangely clad, lily white, English tourists walking freely on the island's streets or lolling around on the beaches, flaunting all too clearly their disdain for our more refined ways. They also have deep pocket--with a few holes since the recession, mind you. So, if Bimlanders are concerned that rental homes for the average man are being grabbed up by the chapati munchers, then those Brits who are wining and dining at Sandy Lane and all places westward are buying up land so that nothing might ever be affordable by the same Bimlanders. I also pointed out that the British (and Europeans in general) have a sorry history when it comes to their effects on lands that they colonize (in an imperial or touristic sense). They bring diseases and local life dies off very quickly.Think I am joshing you. Look at Mauritius: where is the Dodo? Look at the Caribbean: where are the Arawaks and Caribs. Look at Latin America: where are the Incas and Mayans? Think I'm joking? Look at the spread of Swine Flu and see who it is that is having the highest incidence and where testing is going to be standard (see today's Mirror): Britain's Chief Medical Officer said "Swine flu poses the biggest challenge for the NHS in a generation." When you see those BA flights, think "Beware. Assassins." I warn you!]
…..and what is the purpose of this picture on your website? indeed what story does it tell?
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_qwRt0R0vmw0/Sma6MaGhO5I/AAAAAAAACp4/YvkwkMhKq5I/s1600-h/420-Brit-Nuns-420×0.jpg
livinginbarbados // July 22, 2009 at 3:21 PM
@Anonymous // July 22, 2009 at 1:59 pm
“It hurts that you cannot ever deny that YOUR KIND brutalised Africa.
Facts shite!
Facts stare us in the face every day fooollll! ” [This is a tricky one. I am not sure who or what 'my kind' are. I am guessing, so may need help. Do you mean ancestors of African slaves? Do you mean black men? Do you mean fathers of girls? Do you mean Caribbean people who lived and worked in Africa? Do you mean people who migrated from the region? There are a lot of other categories that I am, so I just need a little clarity. If anyone else is 'my kind' and feels that they are wiser, please do help me out. I was not an associate of the president of the said African country who assassinated many of his countrymen who opposed his regime (I was only a few years old and still in Jamaica). I don't think my parents were involved either, but I will check. Once we have the 'your kind' matter straight I can decide if I need to interpret better the subsequent short but hard to understand statements you offered.]
livinginbarbados // July 22, 2009 at 3:53 PM
@Adrian
I am always glad to have readers on my blog, not least because when I try to write it is with me and my thoughts in mind, but sometimes my thoughts strike a chord with others.
The first part that you cite is of course satirical, given its exaggerations, but the grains of allegations are there.
The second part you recall was spurred by a facetious assertion I made, which on further reflection has more import to it, I think. Namely, the concerns for this country when it comes to inflows of foreigners cannot simply be those from elsewhere in the region, but should be seen as a broader group, who have both numerial and financial strength that is considerable. Though I did not mention it before, some of them are actually kith and kin to some Bajans. Clyde Mascoll has also touched on this in a recent Nation column. My wider historical assertion–that Europeans through colonization have done much to destroy host populations, I will stand by unless someone tells me (people and animals) not to believe the history books.
As for the picture. Though my own set of photos is wide, I searched Google for British tourists and silly clothing, and this was one of the better (or to me, really funny) ones and reminded me of a great comedy film with Eric Idle and Robbie Coltrane (Nuns on the run, see http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0100280/). Honestly, I would have preferred to use something from the local newspaper archives but as you know that is really hard to do with either the Nation or Advocate.
I had a good life in the UK and I owe it much for the upbringing it offered me and the livelihood my parents were able to get there. I do not share the view of some that they are rabid racists searching for Jamaicans or Jamaican-look-a-likes. The British are odd in many ways, and their origins tell you a lot about how many races and groups come together over a long period of time and then manage to see themselves as common. The British Isles, before its natives became creators or empires, were also the target of previous imperialists (the Romans, no less). I’m not sure if that means that one day the Caribbean will sprout a band of imperialists. But history is never over. So, who knows?
Finally, now that an old mate, Linford Christie’s [another dastardly Jamaican], daughter has become the first black Miss UK, I have to take another look at the immigrant experience in the old Motherland.
Anonymous // July 22, 2009 at 3:54 PM
Your parents and you were involved directly and indirectly. Look in the way that you try to come to our shores and TALK DOWN to us. Since only you know what is best for us!
I just wanted you to know that we know the truth and accept it BUT WITH DISGUST!
I will not respond to you anymore since you know everything. Just wanted you to know that there are some people who are not as stupid as you think!
livinginbarbados // July 22, 2009 at 4:19 PM
Anonymous // July 22, 2009 at 3:54 pm
“Your parents and you were involved directly and indirectly. Look in the way that you try to come to our shores and TALK DOWN to us. Since only you know what is best for us!
I just wanted you to know that we know the truth and accept it BUT WITH DISGUST!
I will not respond to you anymore since you know everything. Just wanted you to know that there are some people who are not as stupid as you think!” [The way I speak is testimony to the 11 plus system and where it placed me in a school. Accidents and accents. You may not realise how hard the Jamaican accent is to comprehend for those who are not from the Caribbean. This whole business about assimilation can get tricky. Damned if you do, damned if you dont. But you know what. Let me dispense with the Queen's English for an instant. Bredrin, cum an meet me an to rhatid we a go get inna sum cussin an mi nah dra back cos wen yu a insult fimi madda an fadda iz war yu a start. Better?
If you think that my opinions (1 voice out of 280,000 people--let's forget the tourists--are so strong and that they represent a talking down, then I apologize. You are free to ignore them, of course.
But, I would suggest that you think again, and answer honestly if you feel that those migrants from Barbados who went a similar route to my parents in the early 1960s to England are in the 'your kind' category. You need not 'speak' to me, but I think you should speak to the Barbadians.
I honestly do not understand your second sentence. If you have experiences of Africa to share, again, I think you should not hold those back. If you are conjecturing then say so.]
Sargeant // July 22, 2009 at 5:07 PM
LIB
You may not realise how hard the Jamaican accent is to comprehend for those who are not from the Caribbean.
*************************************
Even for some of us from the Caribbean. A long time ago when I had hair I used to visit a Jamaican Barber shop where I was sometimes included in the exchange that flowed around the shop. Most of the time I would smile and nod ( not sure what they thought of me) but I couldn’t follow the conversation.
Another time at a friend’s home ( I do have Jamaican friends) he brought out a bottle of Wray & Nephew- I can’t handle the stuff- and another person said he didn’t want any because it was “Junka Rum”. When I asked for a translation I was told that he meant “John Crow Rum”.
I am getting better.
livinginbarbados // July 22, 2009 at 6:19 PM
@Sargeant
There is a lot about the Anonymous comments that bother me, not least what it may imply about migrants from these shores. I recall several things about the 1960s, one was that our economies could not support our people and they fled in droves to what they thought were better economic and social opportunities. The parallel with the discussion on migration within the region is very evident. Our weak economies needed to improve to reduce the pressure on people to leave and go to the UK, USA and Canada.
The other thing that disturbs me is what may be implied about returning residents (a difficult transition at the best of times) and what if anything positive they are seen to bring. I recall the reception I got when I left university and applied for jobs in Jamaica. Bottom line: no offers, so I went back to England. Ironically, the paths were such that those who found no space for me later found me on the other side of discussions when they were going cap in hand for money.
The final point is not rare to Barbados, but revolves around what reaction ‘those who do not sound like us’ get. We are a bit schizophrenic? The tourist is loved or hated? The regional migrant is loved or hated? The national who oppresses, opposes, cheats, steals etc, but is ‘like us’ is loved or hated?
I am not concluding my thoughts, merely reflecting.
Sargeant // July 22, 2009 at 7:38 PM
Suffice to say that the blog is an Anonymous entity. Everyone has an opinion but they won’t be heard at The Nation or the Advocate so blogs are the next best thing.
Like it or not these are the conversations that are happening at the “grass roots” and even other levels a bit removed.
For my part I don’t think there is a bias in Barbados against immigrants per se but there is an uneasiness/distrust against those immigrants who are unable to get along with those of other races in their homeland; but will migrate to Barbados and claim that they can live in harmony with Bajan residents who belong to the same race as those that they are unable to get along with in the first place.
The logic escapes me
livinginbarbados // July 22, 2009 at 9:37 PM
@Sargeant
A blog is less anonymous that people think but let it have the facade of some anonymity.
I hear ‘conversations’ too as I move around. Not the same subjects surface, but some of the same sentiments I have heard.
As a foreigner, I sense unease and distrust far more than I expected, but Bajans have tried to explain that as more in character regarding outsiders, and I have taken it as general. I have written about this in terms of whether ‘neighbourliness’ is something that is commonly experienced. (I’m no pollster, and anecdotes can only take you so far.)
The logic of discontent not necessarily following a group is not that odd. It depends if the base of the discontent ‘at home’ is racial or if race is an incidental (not meaning to make it trivial). There is competition, but the rivalry need not transcend borders. It’s hard to generalise, but one cannot assume carry over. India and Pakistan split, yet descendents from that area are not in the same rivalry in Guyana as exists in the Indian subcontinent. ‘Abroad’ one faces new adversaries and ‘outsiders’ may need to see they face common problems. Irish people migrating from Ulster and the Republic did not bring sectarian violence with them to mainland Britain. (As an adjunct to that, Blacks and Irish immigrants in England often gravitated to the same ‘reception’ neighbourhoods, and animosity toward them by the English was of course not based on race but on foreignness and differentness.)
Your barbershop story referred to Jancro/John Crow. Yesterday I used ‘craven’ in a post, which in Jamaican has a very different meaning than in standard English (see http://www.speakjamaican.com/jamaican-slang-glossary.html#j). The two words are often not far apart in Jamaican parlance.
It’s late. My brain is tired.
Sir Bentwood Dick // July 22, 2009 at 10:29 PM
AH wrote ‘The British are such sad people. A people searching for relevance. As most things wrong in this world they have had a hand in creating it.’
Bollocks. The British are quite happy with who and what they are, better believe it.
They are (generalising) a bit eccentric, but with that comes openmindedness, joy of life and philosophy that puts most to shame, while being balanced by an uncanny pragmatism.
Ask your friend 199.
There are some bigots, as there are in any country.
As for relevance? London is still, with New York, the main financial centre in the world, that for a small island nation!
Sir Bentwood Dick // July 22, 2009 at 10:34 PM
And now, for Adrian Hinds rendition of ‘God Save The Queen’……..
Good ting me not say ‘Opi rendition!
LOL.
Adrian, you did nuse to line up longside de road when de Queen did visit?
Dem days wuz relevant?
Nex time yuh in Engurland, yuh should make an appointment with 199, for ‘im tuh carry yuh tuh tuh visit the Palace tuh see de Guard change.
Me gotta feelin’ dat yuh wud like dat sorta ting.
Cha Man.
Sargeant // July 22, 2009 at 10:36 PM
LIB
I think that you are mistaken in your view of rivalry not transcending borders. One only has to look at the enmity/distrust between the Tamil and Sinhalese population in Toronto. The bulk of the IRA financing came from the Irish community in North America despite America’s close ties with Britain and I don’t want to be trite but having worked in an area with a sizable Greek population I know how to start a disturbance at a Greek gathering – tell anyone within earshot that Alexander the Great was Macedonian instead of Greek-.how long has he been dead again?
As to your premise that people brought from the Indian subcontinent to the Caribbean as indentured servants did not bring their rivalry with them; perhaps their commonality was stronger than their rivalry and they bonded together to face another displaced people. In any event their departure was long before the establishment of India and Pakistan.
Finally can you explain what happened in Fiji?
Sir Bentwood Dick // July 22, 2009 at 10:43 PM
Bimbro ‘United States of Europe’?
Sorry but no..!
Yuh really tink de Germans or French will allow a Brit to order dem bout?
LOL!
Tell me another!
Sir Bentwood Dick // July 22, 2009 at 10:50 PM
Sargeant ‘what happened in Fiji’?
Well, there was this young lady in Fiji
The Europeans used to call her Gigi
If a young man had any luck
And if he asked nicely,
I forgot the rest.
;-)
livinginbarbados // July 23, 2009 at 12:49 AM
@Sargeant
No disagreement on IRA financing, but I thought we were discussing the enmity following: it did not go to the US, as far as I understand.
On India/Pakistan/indentured labour, my reading of the history is that the British had brought together a lot of provinces to make British India in the 19th century, and they had papered over age old rivalries as colonial masters. The fact that partition did not take place till the mid 1940s was an acknowledgement of that.
But, again, mentioning Greeks, I lived in north London in area of Cypriots and the Turkish-Greek rivalry of the island they fled, had not surfaced in London. I’m no sociologist, but it could be that those who flee wish to escape some of the enmity.
Likewise, Ethiopians and Eritreans who seem to coexist well in the US (where they are notable in the Washington DC area).
I also lived in Southall (including during the time of the Blair Peach incident), which became home for a lot of Ugandan Asians, but more a place for people of the Indian subcontinent generally. The Sikhs, Hindus, Muslims and others did not appear to have any particular tensions that came with them. The animosity of English whites to them was something else, and in the end most of them chose to leave.
From Greeks I know, I too am aware of the Macedonia matter, but one could view centuries old territorial disputes in a certain way. To support your view, we have seen how Serbs and Croats have taken their conflicts with them (even to the Australian Open).
My point is that the transfer of hostilities is not a given.
Bimbro // July 23, 2009 at 3:21 AM
Hi Sir Bentwood, I’ve reverted to my original moniker of ‘Bimbro’ which BFP, wid dere fastniss went and changed to ‘199′!! lol!!
I’m not certain where ur living at the moment Dick but, there’s a great deal of suppressed-discontent and resentment in Britain over immigrants, preferential tratment for immigrants, the muslims, etc!! It’s not allowed to reach the surface because open discussion of it is virtually banned by the evil Blair/Brown govt. therefore people show their resentment in other ways! At least here, with David’s help, we’re able to openly and freely express our opinion on any subject, for which he has my huge respect, even more than I have for the official Barbadian authorities who, I gather from our friends at BFP and here, have been keen, at least in the past, to supress the free expression of opinion!!
Bimbro // July 23, 2009 at 3:32 AM
Can anybody tell me wha shite dah LIB talking?!!
LIB, go an ponitficate tuh d Jamaicans!! day need it more than we do, at least from u!!
Bimbro // July 23, 2009 at 3:36 AM
Sorry, should have said ‘to d Jamaiccans, DEM’!!
Laaaddddddddddddd!!
Bimbro // July 23, 2009 at 5:05 AM
Oh, Sir Dick, forgot to say: did the ‘changing of the guard’ thing, during my youth!! The Mall is n’t likely to see me again, for that purpose, except possibly, during my cortege!! :)
Bimbro // July 23, 2009 at 5:42 AM
except possibly, during my cortege!!
**********
NORMALLY, reserved for the elite such as Princess Di, Prince Charles, Her/His Majesty!! :)
Anonymous // July 23, 2009 at 5:48 AM
@61 + 67 + 71 aka Bimbro
No matta ow ard mi did luk mi cyan see wich o de white bway dem is yu.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=laxntam51ws. Elp di peeple, nuh.
Anonymous // July 23, 2009 at 6:00 AM
@61 + 67 + 71 aka Bimbro
Iz wha de Hurban Dikshinary a tell we, http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=bimbro?
Bimbro: a bro who’s also a boy bimbo (aka a himbo); y’know – kinda pretty, kinda dumb, kinda bro-ish
Hinna di Karrybean dem de kine a sinting cyan get u inna nuff trubble.
Sir Bentwood Dick // July 23, 2009 at 6:28 AM
Bimbro,
To be fair, West Indians came to England at invitation and meshed right into the culture, not only contributing to but actually sustaining many infrastructural entities including Bristish Rail, postal services etc.
The willingness to embed themselves in the British way assisted enormously, albeit despite some bigotry surely.
However, if I may, modern day immigrants are more interested in purely financial and lifestyle advancement considerations, without considering embracing British culture as their new homeland.
Therein lies the problem.
Agreed?
Sir Bentwood Dick // July 23, 2009 at 6:35 AM
Looka dis do. Bimbro going eventually get a cortege?
‘E is royl’ty.
I did always know you did big up.
So, yuh REALLY embed yuhself in English culture, besides some Jamaican here and there!
livinginbarbados // July 23, 2009 at 6:47 AM
@Adrian Hinds
Thanks for the comments on my blog. I welcome all visitors and only have a few restrictions regarding comments. Though it is not stated there, I will not publish profane comments, but usually take any observations, pithy, substantive, and especially humourous. Anyone you wish to invite is welcome to offer their observations on my writing.
livinginbarbados // July 23, 2009 at 7:02 AM
@Sir Bentwood Dick
“West Indians came to England at invitation and meshed right into the culture, not only contributing to but actually sustaining many infrastructural entities including Bristish Rail, postal services etc.
The willingness to embed themselves in the British way assisted enormously, albeit despite some bigotry surely.
However, if I may, modern day immigrants are more interested in purely financial and lifestyle advancement considerations, without considering embracing British culture as their new homeland” [West Indians, Indians, Pakistanis, who migrated to the UK came from a situation where British culture had long been a part of their lives, not least as ex-colonies. Therefore, weather and food aside, the assimilation to the British way of life would have been less difficult--not easy necessarily. However, the 'modern day immigrants', coming from central and eastern Europe, and places like Somalia and Sudan, have less or none of this Britishness in their background.
I don't think that it's right that the main difference is "purely financial and lifestyle advancement considerations". I also do not believe that West Indians went to Britain with the prime aim of building its infrastructure. Many left good homes, professions and trades,but got lesser accommodation and were often obliged to take whatever work was available in the public sector, and as general labourers. If you take a look at the manifest of say The Windrush you'll see that many migrants left these shores with trades (maybe not certified qualifications) that they did not continue formally in good old Blighty.]
Sargeant // July 23, 2009 at 9:27 AM
LIB
I didn’t even mention transplanted Sikhs blowing up the Air India flight over the Irish sea
livinginbarbados // July 23, 2009 at 9:34 AM
@Sargeant
“I didn’t even mention transplanted Sikhs blowing up the Air India flight over the Irish sea” [I would not have expected you to. I hope we are not going to take extremists as the benchmark? Except where we may be able to talk about state -sponsored terrorism (as with Libya) then these are outliers. I'm not going to take the rampaging English soccer fan as representative of a general national/ethnic threat...though some do/would.]
Negroman // July 23, 2009 at 10:20 AM
Living In Barbados
Do not challenge Anonymous come & challenge this Negroman.
Living In Barbados, you are the most “intelligent” person on this blog why don’t you take your “intelligent back to your blighted country of Jamaica and be the special advisor on the economic,financial & social problems affecting that benign state.Living in Barbados it seems that you have all the answers & solutions to all of Barbados problems please share that knowledge with your country of birth that is Jamaica.
livinginbarbados // July 23, 2009 at 10:28 AM
@Negroman
What an extraordinarily angry person you are. Is such lovability something that has always been a part of your character? Dare I say that by saying that I know everything, you imply that you know more. I don’t recall seeing any ranking that would have scored me highest in intelligence. Can you share that with me, so that I can share my some of my associates?
Could you fill the blanks for me at least? English has a lot of options to make the gap sensible. My guess is ..roc.. I hope I am correct. If it’s not an English word, then I am going to have to ask for even more help. Thanks.
livinginbarbados // July 23, 2009 at 10:31 AM
@Negroman
It’s never good to leave someone without offering them solace. May I suggest a reading of Disiderata, especially nice on this rainy morning?
Go placidly amid the noise and the haste,
and remember what peace there may be in silence.
As far as possible, without surrender,
be on good terms with all persons.
Speak your truth quietly and clearly;
and listen to others,
even to the dull and the ignorant;
they too have their story.
Avoid loud and aggressive persons;
they are vexatious to the spirit.
If you compare yourself with others,
you may become vain or bitter,
for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself.
Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans.
Keep interested in your own career, however humble;
it is a real possession in the changing fortunes of time.
Exercise caution in your business affairs,
for the world is full of trickery.
But let this not blind you to what virtue there is;
many persons strive for high ideals,
and everywhere life is full of heroism.
Be yourself. Especially do not feign affection.
Neither be cynical about love,
for in the face of all aridity and disenchantment,
it is as perennial as the grass.
Take kindly the counsel of the years,
gracefully surrendering the things of youth.
Nurture strength of spirit to shield you in sudden misfortune.
But do not distress yourself with dark imaginings.
Many fears are born of fatigue and loneliness.
Beyond a wholesome discipline,
be gentle with yourself.
You are a child of the universe
no less than the trees and the stars;
you have a right to be here.
And whether or not it is clear to you,
no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.
Therefore be at peace with God,
whatever you conceive Him to be.
And whatever your labors and aspirations,
in the noisy confusion of life,
keep peace in your soul.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams,
it is still a beautiful world.
Be cheerful. Strive to be happy.
David // July 23, 2009 at 10:32 AM
Agree with Sargeant. Engage LIB because if what he is saying is so in left field it should be easy to challenge his arguments. BU does not always agree with LIB but we respect his views which have resulted from a unique perspective of being a world traveller.
@Negroman please watch the insults. Your previous comment was edited.
Bimbro // July 23, 2009 at 10:52 AM
Sir Dick, I agree with u but, only to an extent! U make it sound too perfect! For example, I recall a friend of mine who while training to be a train driver, his white instructor took him on a ride on the train but absolutely refused to say a word to him!!
I recall also, the several riots we’ve had here!! Unfortunately, and this is where Barbadians traditionally choose to turn a blind-eye so I can’t normally be bothered to say it any more , there’s a group of West Indians who absolutely refuse to integrate and all they can think about, talk about and behave like is as if they were still back there, in their home country! I’ve said this too many times before and can’t even be bothered to mention their name, thus I absolutely refuse to speak to the one of them malingering hay!!
As a consequence, 60 years later, and for a very long time now, the name West Indian in this country has been equivalent to shit, including among Africans! In consequence, in this country, an African or anybody else, would never voluntarily speak to a West Indian, unless they absolutely could n’t do better!
I could say much more but doan inten tuh waise my precious time pun dem man!! One insis on talking tuh me pun d train dis mornin an all I was hopin was dat he would jus drop ded but d ***tard, would n’t!!
Bimbro // July 23, 2009 at 10:54 AM
That’s the true state of affairs today in Blighty, Dick!! vis. our people! thanks to ‘your friends’!!
Bimbro // July 23, 2009 at 11:03 AM
Dick, vis. the cortege, I can’t b certain, but I’m hoping!!
Lord!! Doan mention dem udda people to me boa!!
I see he mek a comment!! I in read it ’cause, to me, all he does do is talk a lot uh shite from morning till nite!!
Steupse!!
David, as far as I can c, he tour d worle an still in lern nutten!!
Lord! How hard a cranium is dat?!! A bit like dere ’sugar (coconut-chunk) -cakes’ More like feeding to d animals!!
Say no more!!
Bimbro // July 23, 2009 at 11:06 AM
My teeth have never been able to manage one of dum an start to pratest at d mere thought of dum!! – dere so called ’sugar cakes’!!
Lor!! Sugar cakes?!! Doan mek me laugh!!
Steupse!!
livinginbarbados // July 23, 2009 at 11:22 AM
@Bimbro
So that your theses can be better understood, could you help your fellow Barbadians understand what Carol Thatcher was considering with her “golliwog” remark (was the tennis player concerned mistaken for a Jamaican, perchance?), http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article5645419.ece.
What of Prince Harry’s reference to his friend as a “little Paki”, http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/news/123700/Watch-Prince-Harrys-racist-outbursts-on-video.html.
These remarks and views may not be generalised but help those of us no longer in the UK understand how you understand them.
Negroman // July 23, 2009 at 11:33 AM
David
Fair enough I have overstep the boundary of decenccy and I apologize.
Bimbro // July 23, 2009 at 12:06 PM
LIB, I really wish u would n’t address me as I see ur people as the disease which is causing us to be destroyed, in Britain, indeed, the world – except for running!! and, in all sincerity, who really gives a ***k about that!!
To answer your question; I see all the ills which befall the W.I. community in the UK, if not the entire, western world, as being a consequence of the presence of your people. If you were all confined to the perimeters of your own country then none of this would happen, or to a much lesser extent! Hope that answer your question, comprehensively!! And now, please don’t bother me again!!
Negroman // July 23, 2009 at 12:30 PM
Living In Barbados
I cannot understand,neither do I admire or respect people who behave or think like you.
Living In Barbados you have decided to come and live in Barbados.If you are legal and making a contribution to the further development of Barbados I am sure we Barbadians will welcome you.However,you are living among us and daily on this blog we are bombarded with you talking down to Barbadians.If you are not comfortable living among the semi-educated,uneducated,racist swine black people that people like you,Jack Bowman,Reluctant Non-Believer and some of the rest refer to us as, why don’t you pack your bags and leave for your homeland.
Living In Barbados I get the impression that people like you,Jack Borman,in addition to Indo-Guyanese,White expatriates from Europe,North America,Canada & the rat catcher/mango seller Indians from India,Pakistan and that general region along with the Chinese hate the majority of the people of Barbados which is us Blacks with a passion,but will do anything to remain here.
If the people I have mentioned do not like us Blacks who make up the majority in this Black country,we are not begging anyone to remain, do the correct thing and pack all of you all bags and leave this Black country.
If you all do not want to govern by a Black government.leave Barbados.
Living In Barbados,Barbados could do with out the likes of you with your pompous behavior.
livinginbarbados // July 23, 2009 at 12:36 PM
So let me not judge the words and thoughts of Bimbro. Jamaica and Jamaicans have been responsible for “all the ills which befall the W.I. community in the UK, if not the entire, western world”. I am not Jewish but help me Brownshirts and Oswald Mosley terrorising Jews in London, and with the Hitler regime and the Holocaust. I am not Muslim but help me with the recent wave of international terrorism spawned by fanatics from that part those who live in the western world. I am not a black American, but help me understand the role of Jamaica and Jamaicans in the lynchings and burnings in the USA. I am not Irish, but where is the link with the sectarian violence in Ulster? I think I know some answers, but I would not presume to be right.
livinginbarbados // July 23, 2009 at 12:44 PM
@Negroman
I was asked to come by my wife, and I accepted. I decided to resign my job for family unity. I now work at home and have the luxury of being able to do most of that on a computer, without need to travel. I’m happy to raise my children.
I’m very happy living in Barbados, but that does not mean that I have to share anyone’s views on what is good or bad. What I have long noticed (and discussed with some on this blog) is that my remarks are often mere repetition of things that I read in local papers or hear on local radio. Yet, they seem to strike a chord when repeated that is not matched when they are mentioned initially. For example, I do not dictate that Barbados does not have a good system for managing heavy annual rains and suffers regular flooding, and is also a water scarce country. Nor do I dictate that PSV vehicle regularly run red lights and endanger the lives of their passengers and other road users. I do not dictate that LIAT regularly makest travel from the local airport a journey into the unknown. If I am the only one suffering these things, then I have to wonder where the reporters are (I use LIAT about two times a year). wish I knew how I developed wukkin up and schoolchildren fighting in Bridgetown or at school. And so on.
livinginbarbados // July 23, 2009 at 12:52 PM
@Negroman
In case your geography is not so good. Look dead east from Barbados and Trinidad and you will see a continent, where I worked with what you call a ‘Black government(s)’–Sierra Leone and Guinea, if you want to be precise. I was asked to stay longer by the government but my institution told them that no extension was permitted.
You can check on the countries and what life is like for most people living on less than US$1 a day. Regular safe drinking water supply and electricity were luxuries, irrespective of who you were. Yellow fever, dysentry and malaria were endemic. Very difficult with a child under 2 years old. Travel was mainly by road (1000 kilometer trips between the countries were normal, but in the rainy seasons–like now– the road was sometimes closed so an immediate return was needed. The option was to fly to Brussels or Paris and back down again (usually 48 hour trip, and very expensive), because I could not drive to the neighbouring country.
Hence I am very interested in Bush Tea’s notions of getting a population to live within its means.
So, think me pompous by all means. I am looking forward to seeing how people here deal with what is called ‘hardship’.
livinginbarbados // July 23, 2009 at 12:55 PM
@Negroman
“If you are not comfortable living among the semi-educated,uneducated,racist swine black people that people like you” I suggest that next time my face appears in the paper you take a really good long close look and do not think that you are looking into a mirror. I am like George Lamming, Austin Clarke and Derek Walcott perhaps, because we went to university. I am not a writer like they are. But I do think.
livinginbarbados // July 23, 2009 at 2:12 PM
@Negroman/Bush Tea: any discussion is about credible propositions and convinving hearts and minds. Some feel that by just dismissing or insulting that they make sunstantive points. I don’t. When I was enjoyning my green banana coucou and salt fish lunch in Britton’s Hill, no one felt the need to curse me because of how I spoke and we disceed BWA, agricultur and pudding and souse. That was a good place to discuss and heart ‘on the ground’ views. None of those people even knew what was a blog. Tomorrow I will go back for bbq and see what else we discuss. I’m glad to have other places to exchange views and face to face.
:
livinginbarbados // July 23, 2009 at 2:21 PM
Correction: CONVINCING…SUBSTANTIVE…AND HEAR ‘ON THE GROUND’….
livinginbarbados // July 23, 2009 at 2:43 PM
Correction: DISCUSSED BWA, AGRICULTURE…
BAFBFP // July 23, 2009 at 3:29 PM
BIMBRO IS BACK
I knew that dis 199 imitation din’ gun las…!
Negroman // July 23, 2009 at 4:22 PM
Living In Barbados
This is my final response to you.Your arrogant,pompous,conceited behavior is still being shown through your writings.
I do not care if you are a Black Man by your phenotype,your behavior suggests that if you are indeed from the beautiful Black Race you are what I consider an anti-Black Black or a token Black.
Living In Barbados I would suggest that you use your fertile analytical brain to analyze the reason why the great continent of Africa is in the state it is in today and by converse to analyze why some Europeans countries,North America & Canada are so prosperous today.I think your brilliant analytical skills will point you in the right direction.
It is indeed very interesting that you highlighted the problems in Africa and the under development in many of the states that make up Africa, but you have refuse to acknowledge the destitute state of many Europeans countries especially the European states in Eastern Europe where things are so bad that human trafficking,child labour & child prostitution are rampant.
Living In Barbados you are a very deceitful individual.People of your ilk will never be able to come to Black Barbados and lecture to us or talk down to us anymore.We are not the docile,stupid,placid people that can be manipulated or abuse anymore.We are going to stand up & fight back and we will fight back by any means necessarily.
Living In Barbados,go & take hike.Barbados must be rid of the intellectual idiots like you.
livinginbarbados // July 23, 2009 at 4:40 PM
@Negroman
First, the accusation is that “we are bombarded”. Then the accusation is that you want me to talk about more things (“but you have refuse to acknowledge the destitute state of.. “). So, if I can manage to keep expanding on what you want me to cover, you can say that I know too much. I understand this condition, though I am no expert on how to cure it.
I do not feel confused, but I really do wonder about the writer that makes that sort of wholly contradictory set of observation.
I know that you will probably be more satisfied if the space you occupy does not need to accommodate other opinions, so that the venom of your comments can seem more the norm than the rarity it should be.
I am really happy to leave the party to you and those who enjoy your discourse. But who will be next? Is the scorecard filled yet?
A t some stage, though I personally do not expect it to be soon, you may feel able to acknowledge you are not absolved from contributing to problems. If you have acknowledged any failing our your part in the past, I will forgive myself for not have noticed.
I’m used to assessing what is going on around me and will continue to do that and share it whereever I feel fit.
Hasta la vista. A bientot. Das vidanya. Sayonara. Gute nacht. Go long. Me gone.
David knows where to find me if he feels he has a question to ask.
livinginbarbados // July 23, 2009 at 4:42 PM
@Negroman
If you would like to read my writings on the problems of eastern and central European countries, contact me via my blog and I will point you towards them. They are bit dated as the tapped out in the mid 1990s with the collapse of the Soviet Union.
livinginbarbados // July 23, 2009 at 4:46 PM
@Negroman
“I would suggest that you use your fertile analytical brain to analyze the reason why the great continent of Africa is in the state it is in today and by converse to analyze why some Europeans countries,North America & Canada are so prosperous today” [I gave a talk on this yesterday, and can also point you to the useful Marxist analysis of Stuart Holland in “Capital versus the regions”, which still plays out not only in Africa, but to all areas that are not part of the economic core (eg Ireland, Spain, Portugal, etc.) Draw the map. Find the central node of economic power. Check the radius. See the fall off in wealth.
Anonymous // July 23, 2009 at 4:56 PM
Man NM mekking you fret cause it is the truth!
And he aint went UWI like you and George Lamming haa ha lol!
Sargeant // July 23, 2009 at 5:32 PM
LIB
When I was enjoyning my green banana coucou and salt fish lunch in Britton’s Hill, no one felt the need to curse me because of how I spoke and we disceed BWA, agricultur and pudding and souse
************************************
Looks like you are making an effort to sample some opinions from the other “grass roots”. Do tell us if their thoughts are in concert with what is said on the blog or if they reflect another reality?
livinginbarbados // July 23, 2009 at 5:36 PM
@Sargeant
Consistent with my earlier message, I will gladly share my views via my blog or my email there. I’m writing a piece on the discussions (may be done later tonight). I had not gone with a view to sounding views–but of course one gets views all the time–just to search out my lunch on Villa Road (with some other plebs).
Bimbro // July 23, 2009 at 5:45 PM
Hi BAF, ur right!! That number did n’t do justice to my genuine feelings towards Bim, i.e. of being Bim’s No.1 bro – Bimbro!!
In d meantime, way u get dis nutter LIB, from?!!
Lor!!
BAFBFP // July 23, 2009 at 7:03 PM
BIMBs
Mr and Mrs Livinginbarbados will be with us for another few years to come so you gotta get use to him. These are the very pleasant faces that we see in these parts when we speak of the IMF. Please don’ piss he off tah much…LOL
Sea Cat // July 23, 2009 at 7:28 PM
@livinginbarbados
Cor blime. Man, you got real stamina. I hope you wife agree with me.
You getting licks and insults left, right and center but you aint ducking at all, at all. Don’t let dem run you, boy. Keep punching back.
Sir Bentwood Dick // July 23, 2009 at 8:09 PM
LIB,
Your latest article is quite humorous, indeed referring to these blogs and the ‘residents’.
Was rather amused (bemused?) by your friends’ advice that these blogs contain rabid writings from others.
A point in some cases, but certainly not generally.
I rather think that your friends should read your own advice, or rather that of your early boss, to speak up during a discussion, for the reason given. Thus, your friends should also give others the benefit of the doubt.
But, who am I to judge? Your friends have their own opinions, I am others have ours.
Openmindedness is a wonderful thing, a mantra that I know you appreciate.
Would be great should others follow this.
Enjoy BIM, all are welcome.
As the late Errol Barrow said.
Friend of all, satellite of none.
Sir Bentwood Dick // July 23, 2009 at 8:24 PM
LIB
I accept your point on the cultural ‘training’ of the early immigrants, but still assert that the early immigrants gave as much good as they took, as well as accepting the new culture as opposed to the current immigrants who either refuse to or are incapable of assimilating, while being a draw on the infrastructure, rather than as asset.
Livinginbarbados // July 23, 2009 at 8:26 PM
@SBD (excuse the informality)
No one can be forced to give their opinions, and no one’s lack of expression should be taken as anything but the exercise of a freedom. If Japanese people refrain from speaking unless they believe that they have the best thought. But Americans tend to talk to fill up the time. Put the two into a room together. What do you get?
Historians indicate that the late Errol Barrow left a huge and positive legacy for Barbados. I don’t know his writings, so will take some time to read them.
Laughter is healthy as are the sentiments of Disiderata.
Livinginbarbados // July 23, 2009 at 8:34 PM
@BAFBFP
That timing is news to me: much less, for sure.
The institutional profile is wrong. Neither is the ‘face’ you suggest in the context you imply. Misinformation when it becomes current can be hard to correct.
Others should feel free to offend. Chips will fall where the do.
Livinginbarbados // July 23, 2009 at 8:38 PM
@SBD
I gave a rationale for differences regarding tendency to assimilate. What I omitted previously was the counterfactual. But I will pose it as a question. Did the British (or other) colonizers assimilate or adapt, or did they force the natives/residents to adapt? Depending on your conclusion what lessons would you to be learned by the colonized?
Sir Bentwood Dick // July 23, 2009 at 8:44 PM
See. BAFBFP almost had alla Buhbayduss reading dis blog to hear whuh de ‘IMF Man’ got tuh say!
LOL
BAF, yuh did doin David a favour!
Sir Bentwood Dick // July 23, 2009 at 8:57 PM
LIB,
Noted. But surely we are then discussing two issues.
Firstly, the micro issue re the situation in England, full stop. The above rationale addresses that.
Secondly, now you refer to the ‘whole’ view.
Generally, yes, the British culture was forced, despite necessary change on those long-term resident colonisers and their descendants (which is part of why Barbados is so mixed nowadays).
Lessons for the colonised? Interesting question.
From a pragmatic or cultural defense viewpoint?
Can I suggest that some cultures actually did hold their own, e.g. India, the caste system, the religious, marriage etc remained.
But that may have been due to the age of their civilisation, whereas the West Indies for example, were ‘created’ as such, with the Amerindians driven out.
I agree that colonisation had severely damaging effects on the African civilisation.
May I also go to one regular point of such discussions, (with apology), the merits or not, of being a colony of various nations i.e. many claim that the British colonies have fared the best, compared to the Spanish and Dutch colonies for example?
Many blame the Haiti situation on such a cause, the origin of the coloniser?
But, I am not a history expert, I will leave that to those who are.
Lessons from a colonised, can it be simplified really?
It is not so easy, when the colonised were so varied. One would like to use the Indian example, of sustaining one’s own identity, but it is not so simple.
Livinginbarbados // July 23, 2009 at 9:19 PM
@SBD
On 1, agreed.
On 2. A well developed cultures such as in the Indian subcontinent (remember there are many countries that made up British India) could withstand the colonisers pressures on them to change and more or less ignore them. Population size and spread were probably important factors, too. (You have a parallel with the Soviet Union and Russia versus the satellite states: common economic and political system was enforced but culture in Russia was different from Kyrgyzstan was different from Estonia, etc.) But a similar well developed culture (Incas, Mayans, say) could not withstand (arms and disease made that easier). Numbers worked against the colonized, too. For numerically smaller and UNDERDEVELOPED/SUPRESSED cultures such as in the West Indies (remember slavery crushed/criminalised much of the African cultures–languages, marriage, property rights, and the people colonized were themselves displaced persons), I would say it was nigh impossible to do anything but bend.
On whether the British, French, Spanish, Portuguese, (even Russian) colonizers were better, I think views differ. Each left a positive and negative legacy: religious allegiences; the French and British left the strongest legislative and administrative structures, I think; each left strong liguistic traits (common language); each created dependency but has honoured that differently (eg Martinique is politically a true part of France, and there are daily flights to Paris; likewise for Dutch places like Aruba, but Suriname is now independent; Barbados is not politically a full part of the UK (despite the monarch as constitutional head). Some (France) pulled the financial plug totally in some cases and/or played favourites when they left, others were ‘kinder’. The Spanish and Portuguese legacy is a bit less clear, and less strong beyond language and cultural/religious aspects.
I would look at Haiti completely differently, as the only Caribbean island that fought for its freedom.
Sorry, the answer is so long. It is that complex, I think.
Bimbro // July 23, 2009 at 11:50 PM
BAFBFP // July 23, 2009 at 7:03 pm
BIMBs
Mr and Mrs Livinginbarbados will be with us for another few years to come so you gotta get use to him. These are the very pleasant faces that we see in these parts when we speak of the IMF. Please don’ piss he off tah much…LOL
*************
BAF, well, in that case, all I can say is, “rathid”!!
Lord!! – (Jamaican parlance)
or, in Bajee talk, “backside”!!
Laaaaddddddddddd!!
Poor we!!
livinginbarbados // July 24, 2009 at 4:05 AM
@SBD
Even though the original thread seems to have drifted away from its topic, there’s a lot of relevance in thinking about things in Barbados from the colonizer/colonized perspective. The colonization process created a lot of deferrence, which given a weak cultural base, means that colonized/black people tended to ‘give way’ to whites. The converse is that colonizing/whites tend to expect blacks ‘to follow’. Nothing hard and fast, but it comes from several centuries of it being that way. But the relationships played out differently in each colony/island during the period and also since independence.
I often see a carry over of this long-standing relationship in what people do, and how people react to what they think they see being done. It’s not necessarily about racial antagonism, but is about power relationships. (One of the startling things I experienced in Guinea was how centuries old slave-master relationships between ethnic groups still held sway, centuries after the relations were broken. At its most extreme you could have a person from a former slave tribe now being head of an organization, but clearly deferring to a lower ranked official who came from a slave owning tribe. Multiply that many times over and think about what it means.)
Independence changed some of this in a notional sense, but surely could not overturn it in a practical sense. The history is just too long.
A lot of the hostility toward the video seemed to stem from “who do they think they are showing us what we should be doing?” or “they are doing this to show that we cannot do it/don’t care/don’t know how to be responsible”.
This is a scenario /reaction I’ve seen more in Barbados than in say Jamaica or The Bahamas. Put another way, why is it that the superficially laudable actions of whites generate so much animosity from blacks? Surely we should all be happy that a good thing was done? But, the reactions here show that it is not so.
My take (and Adrian wants me to expand on it) is that key economic relations did not change much after independence, even though the political structure did. But political power without economic power is not very strong. (You see this more clearly when you consider the alliances that governments need to make with other agents, such as unions and business.)
Hence my concern about the Hoad thesis and my contentions preserving the status quo. I think that tension between economic and political power is key to why there is this (deep seated?) resentment that surfaces so quickly. It plays out with national relationships and it plays out with foreigners too (especially in the tourism sector).
It’s more evident to an outsider who does not come with that ‘baggage’, but an outsider has a harder time addressing or correcting it. That’s something for Bajans to do. If the accusations of being Bajan blacks being docile (not my words) hold true then you know that little will happen–and the resentment festers. But, if it is to break then what will be its tipping point? A recession is more likely to be a trigger for change.
Sir Bentwood Dick // July 24, 2009 at 6:12 AM
LIB
Your interpretations of the overall scenario are understood and accepted.
As for the local situation, your last four paragraphs actually have much truths.
Fairly, if a man were to own a business, is it not natural that he would pass the heading of this to his son / daughter?
On the other hand, you may have someone with no advanced training, leading a few people with advanced training, say construction.
But, that youngster may have loads of business savvy.
The problem comes when the youngster has neither, but heads a business inherited.
It is not so much a problem in itself, as trained persons can go work for others surely? But, what if there are few other options and the trained persons find it hard to get enough equity to go their own way?
Or indeed, ‘established relationships’ are so strong that business is not awarded on the basis of ability but ‘who knows who’?
This is not always the case, but does occur.
The ‘out’ for the average Barbadian, is education, if necessary afterwards leaving for pastures where one can at least make a fair living, comparatively.
The counter argument is that the ‘elite’ rule in any country, thus Barbados is no exception, there is also some truth to this.
Big money talks in any country, giving offspring enough for education, business etc.
So, the next question is, where do we go from here?
My approach is one of gradual change, such that all are given opportunities for learning (free education that Errol Barrow implemented), given a fair chance on the availablilty of land for residential and commercial use (my thoughts on a new Land Use Policy then apply) and legislation to ensure that fairness has some recourse by law, including regulationa on public disclosure of Government policy and spending i.e. full transparency.
Some may argue that this is unrealistic, that politicans, their paymasters, will never enact and follow the relevant lagislation.
However, to me, the alternatives in a ‘tipping point’ are too ugly to mention.
We come to change as you say. which is the only certainty, that it will come is inevitable, it is up to us to determine, by what means it comes.
Hence, as you say, the potential for this recession as a catalyst was always and still is very worrying to me.
Not because of the change, which I support, but because of the inherent risks, that could cause the change to be negative rather than positive, in terms of a stable nation, both economically and socially.
As we climb for better pastures, the drop from the slope is also steep and could be sudden.
Sir Bentwood Dick // July 24, 2009 at 6:17 AM
So Bimbro,
You does go down Shepherd’s Bush pun a Sat’day and buy some West Indian items?
Sir Bentwood Dick // July 24, 2009 at 6:22 AM
Bimbro,
Cuh dear, man. How uh cud treat de fellow pun de train so. ‘E was only looking for a friendly word from a fellow Windian.
Man see a prospective friendly face, amongst the sea of grumpy faces pun de train.
An yuh diss ‘e so?!
Yuh hard man.
livinginbarbados // July 24, 2009 at 7:00 AM
@SBB
Little to disagree with in your reply. But, I think that graudalism is a ‘curse’ on the region, and it comes from our comfort in having had stability, but gradual change is really only ok if the divisions/differences are small or if those with power seem to share the ‘goodies’ fairly.
Your inheritance scenarios apply positively and negatively. We know that both wealth and poverty can be inherited and lead to cycles of prosperity and poorness. You also have to navigate the very tricky waters when the ‘better qualified’ have to stand behind the ‘poorly qualified but in charge’. Add race and wealth to that and it’s a bad admixture.
Yes, elites tend to rule and yes big money talks volumes, but if the doors to each seem effectively barred then you must end up with problems. The US believes that its merit is that the door (through education and a freeish economy) is always open to join the elites (Clinton, Obama?) and become big money (O’Neil/Amex, MJs, OJ, Buffett…).
Where from? I think Barrow set the stage well, but cravenness has taken over. So get that out first, and things may well resolve easily.
livinginbarbados // July 24, 2009 at 7:07 AM
For those in The Bush. Walk through the market from Uxbridge Road toward Goldhawk Road. Turn left at the end and go into Cooke’s. Order lunch, and charge to me.
Aftger lunch, walk back to Uxbridge Road, and go into St Stephen’s Church. Say a prayer.
Come out of the church and look into the school yard. Imagine what it was like in 1961, with a few black west Indian children (Jamaican, Grenadian, two Trinis, one from Guadeloupe) amongst a sea of white face. You may find my name scratched on a desk. Imagine living in a basement flat across the street from the school. Imagine dealing with winter for the first time. Imagine your future 50 years on.
John // July 24, 2009 at 7:33 AM
LIB
My take (and Adrian wants me to expand on it) is that key economic relations did not change much after independence, even though the political structure did. But political power without economic power is not very strong. (You see this more clearly when you consider the alliances that governments need to make with other agents, such as unions and business.)
+++++++++++++++++++++++++
This caught my eye and made me think about the oft repeated refrain to the effect that after independence, “”Blacks” got political power but “Whites” kept economic power.”
I think political power was shared among Bajans of all colours when Adult Suffrage was instituted in the early 1950’s long before Independence.
I think the politicians who appeared “Black” had been indoctrinating people into seeing the colour difference leading up to Adult Suffrage and used it to eliminate their competition and give themselves a clear advantage.
In my current way of thinking, (it can change, and it may by the end of the day), political power was taken by politicians who separated the “Blacks” from the “Whites” ….. in people’s minds.
The “Blacks” as “defined” by politicians, never got it … and are yet to get it!!
Economic power is completely different from political power and it is worth comparing the two.
It is not possible to imagine economic success like it is possible to imagine the “Black” “White” divide.
Economic success is real and tangible.
Agricultural output cannot be imagined, it has to be produced, and tourist arrivals and money spent either happen or don’t happen.
Here is an example of sharing economic power which in some ways is very similar to the sharing of political power.
C&W has economic power and it has it because of generations of profits in business which among other things led to the acquisition of assets like technology and knowledge and the institiution of a monopoly on the business of telecommunications in Barbados.
Deregulation is like Adult Suffrage.
So after deregulation, along comes Digicel and other companies which want to also develop Economic power and share in the spoils of war.
… and make no mistake, it is war, they all have to fight to get it, C&W is not going to just give it up.
The sides are clearly defined, however the combatants are neither “Black” nor “White”.
It will be a longterm struggle and only the fit will survive.
That is not to say that the combatants won’t use any advantage, real or imaginary, at their disposal, but there will always be a riposte.
In business, how would anyone set about changing “White” to “Black” or vice versa?
Why would anyone even want to?
These are imagined constructs.
Deregulation has in a sense levelled the playing field but the advantage must remain with C&W if only because of its extended experience in the business through which, whether we like it or not, it has built up its ability to hold on to that power and defend its position.
Economic power, unlike political power, belongs to those who have the ability and resources to do what those who do not have those abilities or resources (particularly resources) cannot do.
That is not to say that those without cannot enter the fray and learn the business and beat the established combatant, but it is a fight, and it is uneven, as level as the playing field may be.
Political power was given to and taken by politicians.
Before Adult Suffrage, that power was held by those who were qualified to vote by virtue of what they owned and it was exercised by those who they elected to exercise it, and it was exercised in their interest.
We are still to get a majority of politicians who qualify for their position on merit alone and really understand the physical processes which make this island tick.
There was no longterm struggle politically comparable to that which is required to change the balance economically.
The “Blacks”, if they really exist and are not just the creation of past politicians, are yet to get that power.
It is being held, “in trust” by the politicians.
Political power in Barbados belongs to no one colour if such a single colour really exists, it belongs to the people of Barbados and they exercise it through election of representatives who exercise that power on their behalf.
At the moment these are my first thoughts where Economic and Political Power are concerned.
Bimbro // July 24, 2009 at 7:48 AM
Sir Dick, no need to go to Shep Bush, they’re all over these days!!
Where’re u living now??
D, he was n’t looking fuh nuh friendly word from nuh fellow West Indian, he was probably high pun someting uh d udder cause he was poking he nose, not only in mine but in everybody else’s business there about!! Some kinda wierdo!! Man I wus glad as hell when he get off d train!! I doan want any uh dem people speaking to me man, whether ‘normal’ (cause as far as I concern mose uh dem in normal – excep one or two uh d hot chicks!!) an I could n’t even c one, yesterday!!
Steupse!!
He even sounded like an ex-con!! I jus wanted d man to kiss my ra** man but den he start bringing in other people! Hopefully, with the help uh d lord, I’ll never c e again!!
Laaaaaadddddddddd!!
Ben, u keep thinking uh the 60s! It’s very different ova hay dese days, boa!! W.Is don’t talk to each other unless they know each other personally! The place is just so dangerous now!! e.g. I made sure I kept a close eye pun e, d whole time!! Yuh caan trust nuhbody in dis dangerous country nuh mo bo. Befriend yuh one min, rob yuh d nex!! Idiot of a man, he was!! Mind u, he asked me if I’m a doctor or a teacher or someting or d udda, I caan remember precisely now!! I felt very flattered but I could n’t tell e d trufe dat I’m an M.P.!!
He would n’t have believed me!!
Laaaaaaddddddddddd!!
Boy, if dah LIB in mad, I doan know who is!! :)
livinginbarbados // July 24, 2009 at 8:07 AM
The main differences I noticed when I was in The Bush last year (admittedly during midsummer holiday time) were:
-fewer west Indians and Africans; those remaining seemed on average older (original immigrants? others moved to suburbs?)
-more Indian subcontinent merchants;
-more Somalia-looking people (refugees?);
-more white Yuppies living in the area, having been attracted by jobs in the area and easy commute;
-fewer white-owned businesses;
-pubs turned into other things;
-many more cars parked on every street;
-public library now tripled as an Internet cafe and jobs centre;
-the small businesses that were located in small mews (alleys) and arches (under the railways) were gone.
But many things had not changed physically or socially. Several stall holders in the market were the same families as in the 1960s (Sir Bentwood note, on inheritance). Many people still stand and wait patiently for buses.
Several people I met in Cooke’s–mainly white English, were former residents who told me that they visit regularly from further suburbs, and with their children, to ‘enjoy’ things still available in The Bush but not in the ‘burbs, and to give the kids a sense of ‘where they came from’.
David // July 24, 2009 at 8:13 AM
Good discussion.
Bimbro give Jack his jacket. If a man makes a good point respect due!
livinginbarbados // July 24, 2009 at 8:18 AM
Bimbro, whatever you say I KNOW Hingland, and I know clearly what I see. Paint us all a picture that is of what you really see and really think. Step back and draw a mental sketch of what has really happened in that part of England that you live in.
My west Indian and English friends who lived and went to school in The Bush, some of whom still live there with their families, paint me several vivid pictures and also share with me actual pictures. (BTW, they are not intellectuals, though most are intellignet. Some have done their time for the odd crime, and have stories of Wormwood Scrubs prison, that makes Dodds seem like Butlins.) I want to match their views with yours and mine. If we all see such different things then we need to understand why.
Tell people what you have done to make you life better or how it has been made worse and by whom. If anyone is buying your Jamaica/Jamaicans have destroyed the western world story, we need to hear from them too, so that we can all understand how this small country has become so all powerful yet cannot rub two sticks together to make a fire. If the story is true we need to ask why Jamaica was missed off the list of the ‘axis of evil’ or if it there as a footnote.
If The Bush is not your manor, then lay out the same picture for where you really are.
I’m not asking you to rival John Betjeman and become a poet laureate (see http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/media/newscentre/archive/3499.aspx), but just to help educate with a realistic set of observations.
Gear Box // July 24, 2009 at 8:37 AM
BIMBRO dat did me pun de train dat you treat like stale fish … I ain’ goin’ back…!
AAAAAAAAAAAAghhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Sargeant // July 24, 2009 at 9:51 AM
LIB
The colonization process created a lot of deferrence, which given a weak cultural base, means that colonized/black people tended to ‘give way’ to whites
*************************************
Why did it turn out a bit different for say Jamaica vs. Barbados seeing that the newcomers to both countries were far removed from their tribal base and both countries had the same colonizers? As the one who made the statement about Bajans being docile and this was repeated to me by two Jamaican women after brief visits. They said that bajans tend to kow tow to any establishment figure and the local whites. Admittedly this is not a large segment to base any survey on but it probably explains why more Barbadian men are married to Jamaican women than vice versa .
I don’t want to bring this discussion to a Jamaican vs. Bajan cultural outlook but Jamaicans have a certain reputation for aggressiveness ; the Maroons took on the British; an older gentleman now deceased told me of his action while he was a student in Britain during the Notting Hill riots as opposed to his Jamaican roommate (while he was cowering under the bed his roommate went out and joined the fray); they took on the Teddy boys and I believe that they were the reason the West Indian community in Toronto was spared any “paki bashing” when it started to rear its head there.
All in all some of the early respect that West Indian immigrants earned in foreign countries was due to the influence of Jamaicans.
Gear Box // July 24, 2009 at 10:12 AM
If Martin Luther King Jr did a Jamaici Vietnam war wudda stop a few years soona and Jim Crow wudda run way…bladclat
AAAAAAAAAAAAghhhhhhhhhhhh
livinginbarbados // July 24, 2009 at 10:18 AM
@Sargeant
“Why did it turn out a bit different for say Jamaica vs. Barbados seeing that the newcomers to both countries were far removed from their tribal base and both countries had the same colonizers?” [My quips about DNA were not trivial. The original stock of slaves was not homogeneous. The historical records show that the traders brought slaves from a number of areas. One common argument is that many of the originals that went to Jamaica were Mandigos, while those that were sent to Barbados were Igbos. These two tribes, were from different parts of west Africa, and have very different cultural bases and characteristics. One theory says that Mandingos were ‘fighters’ and that Igbos were a more ‘conciliatory’ group (it’s more complex, if taken, because once away from the cultural base other factors come into play).
The ‘docile’ observation was made also by, Negroman yesterday (“We are not the docile,stupid,placid people that can be manipulated or abuse anymore.”)
I have asked 199 about ‘nature vs nurture’ when he made observations about Jamaicans, but I do not recall a reply.
But you can ‘unlearn’ or ‘modify’ your behaviour if it is not reinforced.
The historical origins are I think relevant but I do not know how much.
The Caribs were war like, and cannibals and were taking it out on Arawaks, who were reputed to be docile and peace loving. The Spaniards did for both of them.
Our history is complex and confusing and sometimes uncomfortable.
I’m not running with last couple of paragraphs. I think the Jamaicans were numerically far superior as migrants to the UK from the Caribbean, therefore featured more. The reasons for their reaction to Teddy Boys was I think more simple “You can’t treat me like this. Your people invited me here.” But, Jamaicans do have a sense of standing up for their rights and themselves. It’s in the history and people are proud of it (see Minister Henry’s recent letters to the Oxford English Dictionary for its disparaging definition of ‘Maroons’).
Lastly, Sikhs, for instance are meditative and disciplined, but have a warrior tradition that is now largely ceremonial. It was brought to the fore (at least in the younger generation) when they ‘fought back’ against ‘Paki bashing’–if I recall correctly, in part provoked by a sacrilege, when someone tore off a turban/head covering.
livinginbarbados // July 24, 2009 at 10:33 AM
Whether you like or hate the idea of regionalism is your affair. My father told me that the thinking at the time was ‘together we are strong, apart we are weak’. Politicians have their agendas.
Gadhafi is one of those who believes that you need to build regional blocs to be able to deal with the existing power blocs (European and American, say), otherwise, it will be ‘divide and rule’ forever. For him, until the continent of Africa can unite and see its common interests and build on those, it will remain in the kind of state that it is.
So, back to the boardwalk. I suggested before, don’t let those whom you think are doing the thing for the wrong motives dictate that you don’t go and do the right thing yourself.
livinginbarbados // July 24, 2009 at 10:55 AM
@Sargeant
If you have time and inclination to read, I may suggest:
Bury the Chains: Prophets and Rebels in the Fight to Free an Empire’s Slaves, by Adam Hochschild (while also explores the role of the Anglican Church in maintaining slavery, especially in Barbados)
Breaking the Chains: Slavery, Bondage, and Emancipation in Modern Africa and Asia, Edited by Martin A. Klein
The Growth of the modern West Indies, Gordon K. Lewis (the thumbnail portrayals of each island/country strikes me as very close)
Africa: The biography of a continent, by John Reader.
livinginbarbados // July 24, 2009 at 11:08 AM
@Sargeant
“the Maroons took on the British” [Just to get it right: "...and won...", winning concessions to have their own lands and rulers within Jamaica. Remember, they got the first treaty in 1740 (100 years before emancipation was passed). So, similar to Haiti, this group fought for and won their freedom. But the story is more complex. The British tried to ship them out, and first sent about 600 to Nova Scotia in the late 1700s, and that did not work, so eventually shipped most off to Sierra Leone. That was only a partial success as it was hard for these people to somehow 'reintegrate' in a part of Africa that was not necessarily their ancestral home. Most returned to Jamaica to be planters. Some Jamaicans can trace their roots from Africa to Jamaica back to Africa and back to Jamaica.]
John // July 24, 2009 at 11:29 AM
Why did it turn out a bit different for say Jamaica vs. Barbados seeing that the newcomers to both countries were far removed from their tribal base and both countries had the same colonizers?
As the one who made the statement about Bajans being docile and this was repeated to me by two Jamaican women after brief visits.
They said that bajans tend to kow tow to any establishment figure and the local whites.
Admittedly this is not a large segment to base any survey on but it probably explains why more Barbadian men are married to Jamaican women than vice versa .
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Here is an assertion which I came across in reading Sugar and Slaves by Richard Dunn. It is on page 243.
“More surprisingly, Jamaican masters were urged in 1696 to instruct their bondsmen in Christianity and “cause to be baptised all such as they can make sensible of a Deity and the Christian Faith.”
Dunn continues “This seems to have been the first official endosement of religious instruction for Negroes in the English sugar islands, and it suggests – what was undoubtedly the case – that Jamaican slaves were generally better off than their brothers in Barbados.”
I would not for one moment suggest that it explains the difference in present behaviour.
Dunn also speaks to other differnces between the Jamaica Slave Act of 1694 and the Barbados Slave Act of 1688.
I would say that depending on how the act was interpreted, in itself it defined differences between Jamaica and Barbados where the treatment of slaves was concerned.
livinginbarbados // July 24, 2009 at 11:54 AM
@John, Sargeant
There is the other side of the colonization experience, the masters/overseers. I’m no historian but I have noted that this ‘class’ was not the same across the English-speaking region, but also different across the European nations. Briefly, a significant group in the English speaking area were ‘forced’ to go to the colonies, as indentured labour (and gained ’status’ by being exported–a bit like some modern expatriates), others already had status (up to and including nobles). How that varied group interacted with slaves is not trivial: one observation is the behaviour that an ‘artisan’/less well educated person can show a slave is quite different from that of an ‘educated aristocrat’. My French friends have flagged this as a major difference in former French colonies, where the masters were of a ‘higher’ class.
I cannot factor it in myself, but I add it to the equation.
Bimbro // July 24, 2009 at 12:04 PM
David, I’m not certain but am going to assume ur referring to LIB! Frankly, I don’t normally read his posts. Their length alone, is sufficient to deter me and suggest the rantings of a madman. I’m thus unable to say whether his points r good or bad. However, I’m not inclined to read the postings of a ‘madman’!!
Sargeant // July 24, 2009 at 12:10 PM
LIB
Thanks for the reading list, will see what I can do. To switch topics the next book I intend to read is “The End of Racism” by Dinesh D’Souza. I bought it a few years ago based on a review by someone who was at odds with his right wing stance but so far it remains unread. Right away I have a problem with the statement on the flyleaf which reads as follows “racism is a distinctively Western phenomenon” and I also noticed a passage which refers to “alleged racism by cab drivers in Washington” but it will be interesting to read it from his perspective.
I also thought that it was appropriate given the recent troubles of H L Gates. The contributors to one blog site I follow were particularly harsh on him because of his response to the dropping of the charges, they want him to adopt a more militant stance against the Police and the Harvard Establishment. They are now portraying him as belonging to the group of elite blacks who “summer” on Martha’s Vineyard.
It’s hard to tell what Black People want.
Bimbro // July 24, 2009 at 12:14 PM
LIB, please don’t associate u and me! I am a proud, respectable BARBADIAN the antithesis of you! And why should I not be surprised that u keep company with criminals! It further proves my assessment! I’ve already described the situ here for all West Indians, as a consequence of the degenercy of your people! I don’t plan to do so again! Barbadians can either believe it or nay!! LIB, the only other thing I’ve to say to u is that you’re lucky as rass that I’m not the PM of Bim because if I was, the chances of your being there would be infinitesimal!! I’m not engaging in any dialogue with u, except to request u to get out of Bim and your people to get a brain which is n’t marinated in sin!!
Bimbro // July 24, 2009 at 12:24 PM
Gearbox, it could n’t have been u!! I don’t believe that ur a JA!!
LIB, I happened to notice u enquired about ‘nature v. nurture’! The answer is that ur people are evil-incarnate!! I hope that answers u!! except ONLY some of the women who r absolute, darlings!!
Bimbro // July 24, 2009 at 12:29 PM
I can well understand why some of we Bajan men fancy some of the JA ladies but, having progeni with them is still a huge mistake for which Bim will pay eventually and, I suspect, has started to, already!!
livinginbarbados // July 24, 2009 at 2:02 PM
@Sargeant
I have not seen the D’Souza book, but the contention that racism is a western phenomenon is clearly nonsense. He need only look at the policies of Malaysia, though perhaps the argument is that it is ‘learnt behaviour’. Clearly where any two different racial (or other) groups are put together there is the potential for dislike and systematic opposition based on that racial difference. As I mentioned before, we had the Caribs and Arawaks in the Caribbean. I guess the Caribs could argue it was not racism but it was a dietary condition that meant they killed and ate the Arawaks!
Gear Box // July 24, 2009 at 2:12 PM
Oh yo yo someting happening…
Dis ain’ RPB dis is me Gear Box up hey at Sam Lords Castle…! Somet’ing happenin…
AAAAAAAAAAAGhhhhhhhhhhhh
livinginbarbados // July 24, 2009 at 2:13 PM
@David/Bimbro
I guess the implication is that Lindsay Holder must be utterly and certifiably insane if length of submission is a guide to a writer’s sanity. David, will you inform Lindsay?
Anyway, Bimbro now moves into the realm of Sarah Palin as I have ‘palled around’ with criminals, though when I knew them in short pants they were all pretty decent. Clearly, the brief association I had with them at primary school was enough to turn some (and I wonder why not all) of them into criminals.
So, now that Bimbro has identified the root of all evil, by simple extraction, the solution is clear. Now, things get tricky. I would suggest that the earlier references by Bimbro be re-read and then they be thought about in the context of a set of remarks made recently by a Guyenese former diplomat. I am thinking about what is INTIMATED (not practised, I hasted to add).
livinginbarbados // July 24, 2009 at 2:23 PM
Can anyone explain how BIMBRO/199 can say all of the following?
1. “I see ur [Jamaican] people as the disease which is causing us to be destroyed…”,
2. “I see all the ills which befall the W.I. community in the UK, if not the entire, western world, as being a consequence of the presence of your [Jamaican] people. If you were all confined to the perimeters of your own country then none of this would happen, or to a much lesser extent!”,
3. “I can well understand why some of we Bajan men fancy some of the JA ladies”, or
4. “some of the [Jamaican] women who r absolute, darlings!!”
Mongoose // July 24, 2009 at 2:49 PM
Haha, I jus now come from reading de “comments policy” section of BU. LIB you should pass tru dey fuh sum enlightenment on Bimbro. Back in 2006/07 de man swear he would never darken BU’s door again because David would not ban certain people who dare to disagree with him. He sneak back in using “199″ for a long time (like he was foolin anybody). Next he will be beggin David to ban you too. Hahahahaha
livinginbarbados // July 24, 2009 at 3:00 PM
Maybe this can help sustain Bimbro,
livinginbarbados // July 24, 2009 at 3:01 PM
Let’s try again, http://twitpic.com/bh0ac
livinginbarbados // July 24, 2009 at 3:50 PM
@Mongoose
I have also read the comments policy, thanks. I liked one commentator writing that Bimbro had a “rear attribute” I wonder if that was a typo, or a sense of waggishness (itself a kind of rear attribute).
Bimbro // July 24, 2009 at 4:52 PM
My future silence with regard to you, Sir, should be sufficient indication of my attitude towards you and yours!! Unspeakable!!
Gear Box // July 24, 2009 at 5:26 PM
DAVID
SOMET’ING HAPPENING AT SAM LORDS…
AAAAAAAAAAAAAGhhhhhhhhhhh
BAFBFP // July 24, 2009 at 5:29 PM
LIB
BIMBRO saying dat dey sweet…! Yaba… Bladcalt..!
Technician // July 24, 2009 at 5:53 PM
Bimbro // July 24, 2009 at 12:04 pm
David, I’m not certain but am going to assume ur referring to LIB! Frankly, I don’t normally read his posts. Their length alone, is sufficient to deter me and suggest the rantings of a madman. I’m thus unable to say whether his points r good or bad. However, I’m not inclined to read the postings of a ‘madman’!!
————————————————-
WTF!!
Pot calling kettle black!!
Random Name Generator // July 24, 2009 at 5:56 PM
@Lib
Don’t other with Bimbro/199. Its fairly obvious that the person is either a caricature to incite posts or just a rather sad individual who get pleasure winding people up.
It is just possible that his is as bigoted and ignorant as he appears, but I think it unlikely.
Sir Bentwood Dick // July 24, 2009 at 5:57 PM
‘Gear Box // July 24, 2009 at 5:26 pm ‘
Wha happenin’? Sam coming out de ground, out de pirate grave?
He goin’ move bout ina steel donkey or even a hearse tonite at midnite?
Oh lor’! He may even got de ‘heart-man’ from among he crew, to run we!
Wunna shoulda never mess wid he home.
Sam coming fo’ wunna!
Sir Bentwood Dick // July 24, 2009 at 6:02 PM
How about this for irony.
When Sam Lord was a-pirating, his home was the place to lure those with riches, where it would all be lost.
Now, he is dead and the place still luring those with riches….where it will all be lost.
LOL.
Bimbro // July 24, 2009 at 6:08 PM
Technician, one day you’ll find a subject to comment on which is more interesting than I am. I wish you luck with that search!
ready dun // July 24, 2009 at 6:15 PM
Not to turn this into a ‘Jamacan vs Bajan’ discustion but me and my barber had a very similar argument, witch we can to the summary that might be a help in this discustion
Barbados was the first stop for the slave ships so we got the first/best pick.
Due to how the landmass is, the better/richer slave owner chose Barbados(barbados is flat and small, easy to controll population)
@LIB how does Barbados stack up to former French colonies?
There will be racest as long as they are races. so i dont really tack the topic to heart. as long as there is no phiscal restraints, I ok with it.
One more point i want to make to all black people liveing in the caribean; whitey is who bring we hay. You could blame him or thank him.
Sir Bentwood Dick // July 24, 2009 at 6:16 PM
Technician said ‘rather sad individual who get pleasure winding people up’
Gawsh man. But y’know dat is one ting de Engulish luv tuh do, so maybe ‘E learn sumting from dem, ya’knaw.
Deng again, ef so, ‘E being very restraintive, as I see a coupla personages pun hey dat are ripe fo winding-up. It would be, as fren’ ‘Opi like tuh say ‘cat-.iss- an – peppa’, if dat did start.
BAFBFP // July 24, 2009 at 7:00 PM
DAVID
SOMET’ING HAPPENING AT SAM LORDS…
AAAAAAAAAAAAAGhhhhhhhhhhh
David // July 24, 2009 at 7:03 PM
@BAFBFP
Send us an email. We hear many things many of which we cannot corroborate.
Bimbro // July 24, 2009 at 7:35 PM
Whaever happen, I know that my heart is safe in the hands of the lord!!
Singing pun he!!:
Come homeeeeeeeeee,
Come hommmmeeeeeeeeee,
Those who are weary come hommmmmeeeeeeeeee
——– weeping,
Those who are weary come home!
David // July 24, 2009 at 7:53 PM
Sir Bentwood Dick // July 24, 2009 at 7:53 PM
Cuh dear, see, I did know dat Bimbro got a soft, warm side.
But wait, tis 11:35pm an yuh still posting up dey?
Yuh aint gotta be up early pun Sat’day tuh drive into the country an have some good Steak an Kidney pie an a pint at a nice country pub?
Bimbro // July 25, 2009 at 1:32 AM
Hi Sir Dick, ur a joker!! It’s Sat. morning hay aready!! Somebody wake me an I had to tell she it’s too early fuh dah!!
Lord!!
Bimbro // July 25, 2009 at 1:36 AM
Nice tune Dave and thanks for the welcome!! I’m standing to attention!!
livinginbarbados // July 25, 2009 at 4:22 AM
@Ready Dun
“Barbados was the first stop for the slave ships so we got the first/best pick.”[True, but...First pick means 'fit for a job', and that job might not be field work, and could include procreation. So, the picking was not straight forward. Also, there was a market in slaves, which I think crossed the islands.]
“Due to how the landmass is, the better/richer slave owner chose Barbados(barbados is flat and small, easy to controll population)” [Heard this as regards the 'control' point. Some agricultural economists need to help us because cost of sugar production is/was high in Bim, so that weighed against chosing it.]
“@LIB how does Barbados stack up to former French colonies?” [Not sure in what sense. I've indicated that French Caribbean colonies have/had different administrative arrangements with France, eg, Martinique is a politcally functional part of France, just located in the Caribbean. (Not all European French people accept this gladly, but it's a fact.) French approaches to cultural transfer are very nationalistic but also well organized. For instance, preservation of language is a state function (Academie Francaise determines acceptable wordsyou may not know of the constant fight to keep foreign words out of French, like 'email', where official French is 'courriel' [electronic letter]). Acceptable French Christian names are determined by the state: if it’s not on the list you cannot use it (no French ‘Shewanda’s or ‘Deninqua’s]. French adminstration is very centralised. For example, the educational curriculum is truly national (remembering that the nation is beyond the land borders of European France), and the story goes that it is followed like clockwork (same lessons anywhere, anytime). The French try to spread/safeguard their linguistic culture by encouraging it whereever they have an interest. La Francophone (see http://www.francophonie.org/) is an international organization of of agencies and governments with French as the mother or customary language, and the finance the spread of ‘Frenchness’. For example, they will pay for study in French in places outside France, such as Quebec. Separately, study in French in Quebec and it’s free, but in English is fee-paying. Or France will encourage training in France. Not sure if that touches the points you meant. If not, indicate more precisely, please.]
Bimbro // July 25, 2009 at 5:19 AM
But, Sir Dick, yuh got tuh admit he mad man!! Anybudy wid any sense can see dah man!! D amount uh foolishniss he put down hay since dis subjek begin would mek a foul-cock turn e head!!
Steupse!!
livinginbarbados // July 25, 2009 at 6:22 AM
@BIMBRO
Because I want you think hard about what you write and think. I will make a suggestion. Find a book by the Jamaican author Anthony Winkler and read it–any. They are all mainly very good. Then think hard again about Jamaicans and ask yourself if Winkler is who you have in mind. You can do this exercise two ways. You can check out the man on the Internet and I will help there, http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/25/sports/soccer/25soccer.html?_r=1&hp. Or you can do it ’sight’ unseen. Take a good hard look at any pictures you can find on Winkler and read the book again. Then ask yourself the same queston. You can share your conclusions if you wish, or keep them to yourself.
Finally, ask yourself why did Winkler find living in America so difficult and have to return to Jamaica.
If you cannot find any of his books in London, let David know and I will arrange for some to be sent to you.
livinginbarbados // July 25, 2009 at 6:28 AM
@BIMBRO
Wrong link (about Burnley FC, but a good read anyway).
The correct link is http://www.jamaicans.com/jamaicansoverseas/atlant/atlantajamaicanAnthonyWinkler.shtml.
BAFBFP // July 25, 2009 at 6:30 AM
According tto the Advocate News Paper the Barbados Labour Party, the Government on behalf of the people of barbados is planning to buy this property
livinginbarbados // July 25, 2009 at 6:31 AM
@BIMBRO
The correct link is http://www.jamaicans.com/jamaicansoverseas/atlant/atlantajamaicanAnthonyWinkler.shtml
The other is a nice story about Burnley FC, also a good read about success from adversity.
John // July 25, 2009 at 12:12 PM
I am not sure if we need to go back to the days of slavery to try to explain how or even why Bajan males are different to Jamaican males.
Here is a clip from Kensington Oval from 1981 which shows mostly Bajan Males enjoying a cricket match.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=loYyJllsj68
I am saying that the clip shows just how much Bajan males have changed in a generation.
Much of what we see today is the product of a generation of change, …. not generations.
John // July 25, 2009 at 12:14 PM
…. maybe it is something in the water!!
Bimbro // July 25, 2009 at 12:56 PM
John, or maybe the result of an idiotic immigration policy which has allowed the wrong people into the country to influence our men adversely and perversely! I’m not naming any particular nationality!! :)
Bimbro // July 25, 2009 at 12:59 PM
Although, SOME ONLY, (the more refine ones) of their women are most welcome, provided they don’t bear offspring!! :)
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barspecs // July 30, 2009 at 9:06 AM
But why was the b’walk built? To walk on, or to reclaim land from the sea? Check and see that a lot of properties that used to have the sea licking against their back doors, now have plenty more land!
Save Mullins Bay // August 16, 2009 at 5:49 AM
Mullins Bay Blog: Recent Drownings In St. Lucy Highlight Need For Warning Signs At St. Peter’s Bay – http://shar.es/UwHD – #Barbados Save Mullins Bay