done
The deck seems to be stacked against Minister of Education Ronald Jones who we have previously suggested is unsuited for the job, parents and all the other stakeholders as we attempt to arrest the counter-culture which has taken root in our society. Yesterday afternoon we listened with interest to VOB moderator Mark Forde passionately expressing his disgust at the practice which has become fashionable of wearing trousers across the hips to expose the crack of the ass, if female and the undergarments, if male.
Like several other maladies which are currently afflicting our society there is one common thread, Barbadians are reluctant to act until there is irrefutable evidence to support the act under suspicion. Barbadians yearn always to appear to be doing the right thing. Even if the video above already demonstrates a concrete indication that the Jamaican ghetto culture has past the point of no return started to permeate the minds and souls of our young minds, yet we sit and do business as usual.
Prime Minister Thompson, note that removing the school children from the mini-buses is not enough, we need to go further. We need to create boot camps, we need for the Broadcasting Authority to wake up and enforce the standards, we need to exact standards from our radio stations, we need to exact standards from the public transportation sector, we need to exact standards from our calypsonians, we need to exact standards from our politicians, we need to exact standards, standards and more standards.
The uniform of the school in the video is well known so why bother to finger the school.
We need to fight back, NOW!
143 responses so far ↓
199 // July 17, 2009 at 7:10 AM
I agree with him, completely!! Cheese on bread!! If duh wus tuh let dem walk d streets naked, they would!!
199 // July 17, 2009 at 7:11 AM
A public-flogging would sort them!!
The Scout // July 17, 2009 at 7:30 AM
How can you deal with the children when the Min. is flogging the teachers at all levels everytime he opens his mouth. Jones was a teacher and pres. of the BUT, things he couldn’t do then, now it seems he think he is God Almighty and is going to rule with a ig rod. It is doing much harm to our children and the educational system.
Yardbroom // July 17, 2009 at 7:40 AM
We can blame many things but young people get their best – and sometines worse – examples from their parents. We can blame society as much as we like, but society is made up of individuals. The children and young people seen on the buses and other public places have left “homes” where parents fail to see, or ignore their dress code.
Parental responsibility – or lack of – is at fault, the wider society can do a lot… but the greatest dis-service is often done in the “home,” fix that and we are on the way to a better tomorrow.
David // July 17, 2009 at 7:54 AM
@Yardbroom
With respect the family unit in its traditional form has gone the way of all flesh.
BU will continue to promote its importance BUT a more meaningful project maybe to see what support structures we need to build to compensate for the innate qualities a good family setting would have brought.
Adrian Hinds // July 17, 2009 at 7:55 AM
Nuh wonder White bajans will fight tooth and nail to maintain their power structure in Barbados. I too would not want to leave my children to live in a society run by people who allow this. Sad really sad. Please don’t tell me that young people have been doing these things for generations, and that it is only because of the internet and youtube that we are seeing this. This is a foreign sub-culture imported from places like Jamaica, and the ghettoes of America. We had the capacity to minimize if not curtail this continued penetration, not via censorship, but via strong families, committed fathers, and our own local entertain productions, but as with most things in Barbados, bajans take the easy way out, and then wonders out loud “How yout get so?” Our women have taken too, in a huge way, to behave as if to be emancipated from the kitchen and the role of wife that they must humiliate men, deny them their paternal right to at least see and relate to their children. We go up to New York and guided by the simpleton urge to be seen as better than the Jones, import all manner of materials and behaviors, that are now the domain of our off spring. Our local producers and promoters as always looking for the “easy money” brings in the worse of people from Jamaica and the US to perform here, influencing the young to behave, and dress, the way we see today. It is time to answer the question of how the youths get so, apportion the blame, target the causes and begin to take back ground.
199 // July 17, 2009 at 7:55 AM
Just watched the video!!: Well, when I condemn Jamaicanism pun hay wunna all want fe hang me fuh it so why wunna complaing now!! Wunna wanted it, now wunna got it so, enjoy!! You shall reap what you’ve s0wn!!
199 // July 17, 2009 at 7:59 AM
Welcome to the new modern society of not beating children, not reprimanding them and letting them do as they like! Fancy being a teacher, anybody?!! Did n’t think so!! It’s the society u wanted and have created so, now, why complain!!
Anonymous // July 17, 2009 at 8:25 AM
This is bad and very negative behaviour. However one cannot blame all of the children because as you can see all of the girls present were not participating. It is clear that these girls are wrong and should have been repremanded strongly. Where is the video with children studying, playing sports etc? In a way society is to blame because we have become too willing to copy and practice negative behaviour from other nations with no shame. And some of these other islands and countries have no regard nor respect for Barbadians nor Barbados. Where is our shame and what has happened to our pride? Teach the youth good, enduring values that will grow roots and sustain them throughout their lives. Please.
David // July 17, 2009 at 8:32 AM
Adrian’s comment is valid.
What kind of Barbados do we want?
How do we want to define the society we want?
Are we going to allow our obligations to the multiplicity of international treaties to twart the society which we Barbadians have laboured so hard to fashion through the years? The weeds are appearing on the lawn, what are we going to do about it?
Anonymous // July 17, 2009 at 8:33 AM
As bad as this video is, it is mild compared to some of the videos coming out of schools these days. Where the practice of “sexting” is happening frequently.
This video is nothing that couldn’t be seen on a Lil Rick or Peter Ram video (albeit with ***slightly*** older participants) the fault is not in Jamaica my friends.
Yardbroom // July 17, 2009 at 8:34 AM
@David
One of the greatest difficulties black people have inflicted on themselves over the years; is the expectation a third party will help, eg the state, big business, politicians, Government, society and so on.
“We must help ourselves.”
If we dedicated ourselves to ensuring our children are better educated than we are, know who and what they are and be “prudent” in the spending of their money and with whom. In 20 years almost all our difficulties would be at an end…that is a fact, some of us do not want to hear it, but it is true our future is only in “our” hands.
crossroads // July 17, 2009 at 8:58 AM
well said yardbroom
The Scout // July 17, 2009 at 9:01 AM
The internet and camera cell phones have exposed a lot of worthlessness that has been occuring in schools for years.Remember the Janice Griffith story that many bajans said she was making it up? Well that episcode would be mild to what is happening now. The problem is that teachers, including principals know what is happening at their schools but many are keeping their mouths shut for fear of the said children and the lashes they would get from authority. Almost everyday, I was told, at almost every school, sex acts and drug related activities are the norm but in true bajan terms these things are swept under the carpet. A junior boy of below average bajan status was once caught at one of the top schools having sex with a senior girl of an elite family. The boy was suspended for a term and the girl was simply admonished. Stories that I’ve been told would tangle the hair of bald headed men
Annonymous // July 17, 2009 at 9:39 AM
What these girls are doing in this video is just an extension of what we have been saying is our “culture”.
They just wucking up as they see folk doing in the so called cultural dances at are performed at many big “dos”. and Crop Over celebrations.
They say this is our African Heritage
No doubt many of these children have seen thier parents in action…………yes in the very act of sex………not play acting as in this video.
You all are just a bunch of hypocrites. The children are doing just as the ADULTS have taught them to do.
The ADULTS have themselves become corrupt, and the CHILDREN are close behind…….and it dont have anyhthing to do with Jamaica either.
Tell Me Why // July 17, 2009 at 9:40 AM
David. If this video was from QC or even The Convent, would you have given it the same prominence as the school within this video?
I am over the hills, but I would be prejudice in the condemnation of these children who might just be overindulging themselves with a little classroom fun not knowing that someone (maybe a friend) might be so hypocritical in taking their pictures. Even in our homes, our own kids might just hide away and just wukup to a song. Would you condemned them for having fun?
What all of you should be doing is tracking down the many school children who hide away in cars and homes experiencing adult practices during school hours.
Adrian Hinds // July 17, 2009 at 9:54 AM
Tell Me Why // July 17, 2009 at 9:40 am
don’t dilute yourself, Youtube is filled with real not staged real acts of behaviour by people of all ages in Barbados that make me wonder where we are going. I am refering to adults involved in street brawls etc.
beach bumm // July 17, 2009 at 9:59 AM
ahahah… this is we culture as ppl put it… we as Africana expressing we heritage.. and then want know where d young ppl learn it from.Its what is being done and shown right now all over bim and on tv as part of d culture thing.From May to August its all wukking up and everything else and then after morals suppose to set in.. what a joke
Tell Me Why // July 17, 2009 at 10:07 AM
We are promoting a culture based on wukkism, we allude to the adults pelting waist in the public domain showing the four square inch undergarment, but alas six females, no males present indulging with an innocent private wukking up session and all hell brek loose. Come on, stop the politicising trying to promote the Eduction Minister in this equation.
David // July 17, 2009 at 10:09 AM
After reading Tell me Why we are reminded of the phrase if you lick you lock up Our procrastination to address the hard issues in a direct way continues to be our problem. The objective of posting the video is NOT to embarrass this school, it is the more systemic issue of a class unsupervised, the influence of the Jamaican ghetto culture on Barbados, by the way this is not Bajan wuk-up, this is dancehall gyrations which is attached to a counter culture which informed the government to remove the children from the PSVs.
Anonymous // July 17, 2009 at 10:18 AM
I wonder if Adrian Hinds equates racism with immoral behaviour. Matthew 23:27
Tell Me Why // July 17, 2009 at 10:20 AM
by the way this is not Bajan wuk-up, this is dancehall gyrations which is attached to a counter culture which informed the government to remove the children from the PSVs.
……………………………………………………….
Nonsense David, this is no hard issue. Dancehall, Kadooment or whatever culture you might promote will be combined by our youts to see who could gyrate the best. The classroom culture as displayed in the video is nothing new. I could remember over 40 years ago, the boys in my form trying to see who could wukup the best to music and we didn’t know about any ZR’s, only the donkey cart culture along with the Landship and its movementations. So David, what are you saying?
David // July 17, 2009 at 10:24 AM
@TMW
Do you also remember that back then it was done as clean fun and not attached to a ZR culture?
Do you also remberber that you did such gyrations at your risk because if an authority figure caught you it was hell to pay?
Nowadays it is par.
Carson C. Cadogan // July 17, 2009 at 10:39 AM
Yardbroom
“We can blame many things but young people get their best – and sometines worse – examples from their parents.”
Well said!!!!!!
Many of these children bad behavior are carbon copies of their parents.
My wife is a Primary school teacher for the past twenty years and she has some disgusting stories to tell.
Tell Me Why // July 17, 2009 at 10:39 AM
Do you also remember that back then it was then as clean fun and not attached to a ZR culture?
……………………………………………………….
Are you saying that the girls in the video aren’t having clean fun?
Are you saying that these girls would have continued gyrating if an adult popped up?
In our historic days we had no videos, no MCTV or Direct showing BET et al; no Kadooment, no T strings, no panty shorts, no Lil Rick, no Spin Pooches…..only a few brave guys and gals from the Landships doing bajan wukkups. Also we had no live sex like the behaviour of some adults forgetting the lil’ ones around. All this is a total transformation of our culture, never to return to the good old innocent days since technology will always be improving.
David // July 17, 2009 at 10:48 AM
We are saying that wukkin up back then we are prepared to wager was not attached to any counter-culture dynamic. It was a case of wukkin up being the Bajan way of cultural expression. The dancing we observe is now being done in a climate of parental delinquency and a more liberal environment. We are prepared to wager AGAIN that back when we did it if we were caught there was remore shown and punishment dished out, not it is par.
Anonymous // July 17, 2009 at 10:52 AM
Wasn’t there a previous thread on BU about wukking up? It was said then by some posters that wukking up is we kulcha.
http://bajan.wordpress.com/2008/08/21/is-wuking-up-without-limits-barbadian-culture/
199 // July 17, 2009 at 11:21 AM
…….and it dont have anyhthing to do with Jamaica either.
*************
Don’t lie!! The *hit always starts there, as well we know. I’ve seen similar scenes in Pasa-Pasa videos!! Where do u think the Bajan children get the idea from!! Put it this way!! “It’s a lot different from when I was at school, in Bim”!!
lol!!
observing // July 17, 2009 at 11:35 AM
As a very realistic person from and now in the education system, and who’s seen and been part of our “underground culture” I’ll try to add some realities maybe for discussion without going into too much of the whys and whereforths……
1. The system has failed (is failing) alot of our children
2. Nothing external (programmes etc) can make up for a negative harmful family environment unless it is a semi permanent to permanent arrangement for the child
3. The Ministry is incapable of effecting any behavioural or social change in our children by itself. Everyone (church, community leaders, social groups, corporate barbados) need to chip in
4. Adults need to take their heads out the sand, and admit or face up to what our children are exposed to DAILY in person and on the internet, tv and radio
5. Barbadian society publicly and subtly promotes injustice, unfariness, open displays of double standards, hypocrisy, lack of accountability and a non adherence to basic humanistic (not Christian) principles. This is what our children see, so to them “what’s the sense is education or trying to live a good life?”
6. Children act what they see. Adults (both parents and others) are to blame for showing and in some cases encouraging these behaviours to young people.
7. Decent minded adults must take some blame for not keeping enough noise, or not taking enough of a stand when “good barbadian values” started to go through the chute and the sub culture emerged, stayed, growed and started to take over.
8. Our society has effectively lost a generation (in terms of culture, knowledge and values).
9. We will be seeing ALOT more of this in the coming months and years. Just imagine what the average Bajan is NOT seeing (or don’t want to see)
more to come later maybe.
Royalrumble // July 17, 2009 at 12:17 PM
There isn’t a day that goes by that I don’t hear the cries and complaints of adults about the waywardness of our young people. I viewed the clip above and I must confess that I see absolutely no problem in what the children are doing. I have a problem though in where they are doing it – on top the desk in a classroom at school. This kind of merriment should be preserved for places other than classrooms and must not be done in the school’s uniform.
The truth of the matter is that a lot of the things that adults now condemn children for are learnt from the very adults. Social behaviour is learnt, it is not something past to a child during pregnancy. The clip shows children gyrating to music. Is that not what we do every year at this time and call “we culture” and don’t we have a band for adults and one for children? So what is the fuss now?
The greatest challenge in combating some of the real ills in our society and amongst our children is at the level of the home. Children having children, the ineffectiveness of the extended nuclear family, the lost of respect for the church to instill moral and Christian values and the breakdown in community life, to mention a few, are responsible for the poor character and low self esteem evident in our youth today.
Holders of high profile offices in our society that once represented the role models for our youth to emulate are now the purveyors of wrong doings. It is as though they have adopted the precept that our youth should “do what we say and not what we do”.
The double standards that now characterize our way of life in Barbados today makes it extremely difficult for our youth to discern right from wrong. When our Prime Minister is a popular hit amongst some of our youth, not because of any great national accomplishment or academic achievement but because they see him as one of them in the dub pulling a big “jam joint”, what do expect from our youth.
When we preach in our churches every Sunday that homosexuality is an abomination in the sight of God and then our youth sees the Minister of Education on television in all his feminine antics then how can we redeem our young men and focus them away from a life of homosexuality.
When Barbados signs on to international treaties for Human Rights and the Rights of the Child and then a political appointee in the Ministry Youth, Family and Sports can say to the children camping at Camp Kuumba that “the only way they will get lunch is over her dead body”, and she receives support from the Ministry for that kind of behaviour, then what do we expect those children to feel about politics, politicians and for that matter the state when they grow up.
I am of the firm view that before adults starts to criticize our youth they should spend some time looking into the mirror and I am certain they will be surely shocked at whom they see looking back at them.
Mothertongue // July 17, 2009 at 1:08 PM
I read the post and my immediate question was what about parenting standards? I read further and came upon this response
@ BU” With respect the family unit in its traditional form has gone the way of all flesh. BU will continue to promote its importance BUT a more meaningful project maybe to see what support structures we need to build to compensate for the innate qualities a good family setting would have brought.”
I would wish to respectfully submit that any “meaningful project” that does not involve parents or other care-givers of children will not bear fruit. Has BU done any research into the efficacy of boot camps? Do we need to send our youth to boot camp to discourage behavior (even though unsavory) that has become mainstream? The dances I see here I see on Channel 8 or at any cultural event!! I think we must temper our zeal with some critical thinking and offer solutions that are evidenced based if we are to win the “fight”.
Anonymous // July 17, 2009 at 1:31 PM
Without discussing anything, I will joint point to pages 8/9 of today’s Nation pullout (Crop Over Central) and the picture of “Watchman being sandwiched as De Crushe”, with the text, “…and Watchman with a hilarious number called De Crusher that saw him banaged from head to foot while being ‘crushed’ between two thick ‘winer gals’”. I have not corrected the English.
Jack Bowman // July 17, 2009 at 1:31 PM
Anyone who trawled through the extremely long BU thread a few days ago about sand on the Hastings boardwalk knows immediately what’s going on here.
That thread now has 424 comments on it, all of them sparked by a video of some people cleaning sand from the boardwalk.
Many of the more perceptive contributors to that thread made the very convincing (and surely irrefutable) point that the very existence of the video about the boardwalk was evidence of a widespread conspiracy to demean Bajan culture and degrade this country’s international reputation.
Hard questions, therefore, have to be asked. Who commissioned this video about the schoolchildren? Who was the videographer? Who decided to publish it for an international audience? What are the roles of anonymous Jamaicans and the white power structure in this wretched attempt to sully Barbados in the eyes of every single person on this planet, plus my cat (who is extremely distressed after he saw it and now refuses to eat his Whiskas).
This video is, without question, a turning point. This is where we make our stand and say: “¡Nunca más¡ ¡No pasarán! ¡Venceremos!” The eyes of history are upon us. Those who cannot see the truth might say: “The entire world economy is in the toilet, and that’s affecting Barbados.” Or “A proven psycho with a really bad haircut has got his hands on some nukes, and that will surely affect Barbados.”
But we know what’s really important. Little girls having some fun and wiggling their hips … that, my friends, is what signals the possible end of the universe. Let’s focus on that!
And let’s ask what hand the dread Jamaicans and the whole white power structure have in this abomination.
After all, as “liz” so eloquently said in the thread about the boardwalk on July 14 at 4: 17 p.m:
“white cant do right
even if they are local.”
People: let’s stay focused on what’s important!
Peace.
Anonymous // July 17, 2009 at 1:58 PM
Even someone not well versed in the Internet can come across http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9AiAvah04w, or http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igh6dpwOMEU, just by typing ‘Lil Rick’ into a Google search field.
Anonymous // July 17, 2009 at 2:05 PM
April last year, BU had a post on ‘Combermere School in the Spotlight’, http://bajan.wordpress.com/2008/04/08/combermere-cawmere/, but only 29 comments on the who, what, the where and the why.
Crystal Clear // July 17, 2009 at 2:18 PM
I am a new poster here. I saw this video a few weeks ago under the headline ‘look what free education is doing for Barbados’. There is no doubt that ‘dancing’ Jamaican dancehall style. While the girls are having fun doing their ‘dance’, it cannot escape one that they are in overalls, which implies that they could be in no more than first, second or third form.
The act though is not peculiar to the children of the school in the video. I have a niece who just took the 11 plus exam, and she once relayed to me that when the teacher left the classroom some of the children started ‘wukking up’ and standing on their heads, the sort of dance seen at dancehall queen competitions and in Mr Vegas videos.
Jamaican ghetto and US hood (plaited hair on men, dances by women showing their panties or a hand by their crotch, men wearing their pants below their crack) has imploded our society, facilitated by the internet, radio and DJs. Let us not leave out the many ‘Reggae on the Hill’ shows and Reggae on the Beach shows and the DJs who try to speak like Jamaicans. At the end of the school term last year whilst driving in my car, my own sensibilities were offended by an ad advertising school’s out and encouraging people to come into some dancehall place in uniform where the girl in the ’sexiest’ uniform would get in free. Sexiest uniform?
A cursory glance of the lyrics of the most popular Jamaican songs on our radio stations show they are nothing short of leudness and vulgarity or the encouragement of warfare – Hundred Stab, Pon De Edge, Last Man Standing, Dem Wan Fi War Me, etc etc etc. Whilst certain strata share similar values and associations, noticed among some Caribbean countries, the cheap (but costly 17% of the budget) education that people in this country receive (moreso than in other islands) from primary to university level ought not to result in such an output. Most of the people I accepting this culture that I have spoken to or observed, are woefully unaware of life in Jamaica or the lyrics sung by singers of dancehall. There needs to be standards set or people would continue to fall for anything. Conservatism is being killed.
Jack Bowman // July 17, 2009 at 2:23 PM
@ David
Quoting David: “Are we going to allow our obligations to the multiplicity of international treaties to twart [sic] the society which we Barbadians have laboured so hard to fashion through the years?”
That’s very probably the most feeble and inept attempt to raise a straw man that I have ever seen. A pure example of complete intellectual bankruptcy.
It’s hard to understand the statement if you read it from the beginning, because if you do so the statement makes no sense at all.
But you can glimpse how the statement was meant to work if you read it from the end …
1. We Barbadians have worked hard to “fashion” a society.
2. Barbados is a signatory to several international treaties.
3. I don’t like how some Bajan children act.
4. How Bajan children act (unpleasantly, in my view) is somehow an outcome of “international treaties.”
If I had submitted such an argument in an essay as a first-year undergraduate student, my tutor would have nailed my ear to his desk (metaphorically speaking).
It’s such a fantastically and utterly pathetic argument, so emblematic of straw men and logical fallacy, that you can’t stop yourself from thinking about it.
OK, David. Barbados has concluded, in your word, a “multiplicity” of international treaties. Are we going to allow out “obligations” to those treaties to “twart” [sic] the society that “we Barbadians” have tried to make?
Maybe not. Hell, let’s revoke the EPA. Let’s pull out of the WTO. Let’s renounce Caricom. Let’s reject all trade preferences gained by international treaties with, say, the United States.
You think that’s going to stop little girls from wiggling their hips in class?
What are you, fourteen years old? Are you really the age that your grasp of grammar and reasoning seem to indicate?
Best wishes to all.
John // July 17, 2009 at 2:50 PM
Adrian Hinds // July 17, 2009 at 7:55 am
Nuh wonder White bajans will fight tooth and nail to maintain their power structure in Barbados. I too would not want to leave my children to live in a society run by people who allow this. Sad really sad.
++++++++++++++++++++++++
Like the other video it would be an error to look at this one in terms of black and white.
Royal Rumble hit the nail on the head when he said:
“I have a problem though in where they are doing it – on top the desk in a classroom at school. This kind of merriment should be preserved for places other than classrooms and must not be done in the school’s uniform.”
I see a class room of children from various families in Barbados.
That the behaviour is inappropriate in a class room goes without saying (it isn’t merriment) but all of them are culpable, even the ones sitting down doing apparently nothing.
It may have been that one or two instigated what appears to have happened but all bear responsibility.
I see represented in that class room children who come from most if not all of the classes in Barbados because that is what a class room in a Government School is supposed to represent.
… and yes it can be said that parents are responsible and should do something
….. but why expect anything from parents who only relate to black and white and don’t understand the journies many of their ancestors of all shades made to bring them to the point they are at where the state pays for the education of their children ….. right through to university?
I was in town buying lunch a few days ago when all sorts of sirens sounded.
The lady behind the counter chupsed and said:
“End of term, watch and see the police cars pass with school children”.
Minutes later she was proven right!!
… and I am prepared to bet that in the crowd taken in were children from many classes, from “low” to “high”.
I guess that every end of term, the Police get to meet face to face the youngsters who will in time cause trouble for them ….. probably start a file on them too.
In custody, the bad Johns will stick out by their defiant/seen it all before behaviour and the first timer idiots who followed will behave like frightened cats.
We got problems from top to bottom unrelated to black and white.
Jack Bowman // July 17, 2009 at 3:13 PM
@ John
Quoting John:
“That the behaviour is inappropriate in a class room goes without saying”
How do you know that the behaviour is “inappropriate” and that its inappropriateness “goes without saying”? Perhaps the teacher told the pupils to do this.
You have no context to make a judgement. Zero.
The most immediately important thing is for the person who runs this blog to give a source for the video and, on that basis, to explain why he chose to publish the video.
livinginbarbados // July 17, 2009 at 4:01 PM
@David
Let me ask a David-type question (we want solutions, right). Did you contactthe school before posting the video, to give them and perhaps the pupils concerned (who are mostly easily identifiable) a chance to explain themselves? If not, will you be alerting the school/pupils to the video, lest they and their parents decide to take action against someone (the videographer, the reproducer of the video)? Can you tell us what if anything has happened by way of disciplining the students?
livinginbarbados // July 17, 2009 at 4:21 PM
For those who think they can see the origins of thing by just looking across the water to another Caribbean island. If you want to see the origins of some of the dancehall moves check out the Saber dancing of Senegal (which is very old in its origins), see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iiPwK5k4qNc. This is regarded as ‘haram’ in Islam (ie forbidden) but is extremely popular, often performed at many street events and at concerts.
David // July 17, 2009 at 4:34 PM
@LIB
This email has been making the rounds on the Internet for nearly 2-3 weeks. Members of the BU family are free to contact the school if they want but the damage is done. We took a similar decision to post the Combermere fight last year. We know where you are going with the question but this is a different setup.
livinginbarbados // July 17, 2009 at 4:47 PM
@Crystal Clear
I may be wrong, but I think the crutch holding was popularised by Michael Jackson (in modern times), it’s actually a centuries old practice dating back to the Middle Ages, when men wore cod pieces. It predates Jamaica a little bit–well a few centuries.
Claiming the mantle for lewd singing in the Caribbean would probably cause a bigger fight between islanders than not including one of theirs in a West Indies squad. That’s not to say that some do it better than others, but that’s the way of the world.
I do not go to clubs or movies much but look at the number of underage children in the audience at events designated for adults where violent and sexually explicit acts are known to be on the menu. They are not the majority, but I imagine neither are the girls in the video. But, few children get to be adults without the aid and ‘guidance’ of adults (I wont mention Romulus and Remus or Mowgli).
Jack Bowman // July 17, 2009 at 4:51 PM
Quoting David: “Members of the BU family are free to contact the school if they want”.
Can someone please give me the name of the school?
It’s too late to call now, but if I get the name of the school I will call first thing in the morning and alert them to the fact that “the BU family” is publishing video on the internet of the school’s adolescent female pupils .
Thanks.
livinginbarbados // July 17, 2009 at 4:51 PM
@David
“This email has been making the rounds on the Internet for nearly 2-3 weeks. Members of the BU family are free to contact the school if they want but the damage is done.” [If I may say so that smacks of a terrible double standard, very much of the 'we didn't start it' type. If you truly are seeking solutions you would act as you think is right. Isn't that the civic thing to do? Each one, teach one? You could of course have left the 'email' to go where it went and not sought to give it wider audience on a blog, which is universally accessible, whereas e-mail is selective. As mud is clear so are your principles.]
livinginbarbados // July 17, 2009 at 4:55 PM
@David
For the opening text: “Barbadians are reluctant to act until there is irrefutable evidence to support the act under suspicion. Barbadians yearn always to appear to be doing the right thing.” I will relish the explanation of this statement that fits with what you have done.
David // July 17, 2009 at 4:56 PM
@LIB
As we stated above we knew this is where you were going and that is fine. You accusing BU of double standards is just another label. We take decisions based on the cards we hold, you are not obliged to understand our position.
199 // July 17, 2009 at 4:56 PM
LIB, you’re talking more *hite, as usual!!
livinginbarbados // July 17, 2009 at 5:00 PM
@David
Let me put it more clearly (as some of your commentators would). Can you explain your statement? Yes or no? Is it just a sanctimonious sentence, that has no meaning for you personally, but somehow could fall on others’ shoulders. Labels can fit if they are correctly applied. Man is a good label for a male, it stops a person being confused as other things. So, nothing wrong with labels. As the saying goes, “If the cap fits, wear it.”
As for the robot that comments on the blog, you may need a spam filter.
livinginbarbados // July 17, 2009 at 5:03 PM
@199
**** ********* and *** the **** out of the ***. I hope that is clear.
Jack Bowman // July 17, 2009 at 5:08 PM
Nobody can tell me the name of the school? Nobody?
OK. I’ll just send this entire thread to the head of every school on the island. It’ll take about five minutes to alert them to the fact that a secretive group that calls itself “the BU family” is publishing video of adolescent schoolgirls dancing on the internet.
David // July 17, 2009 at 5:11 PM
@LIB
Let us write slowly for you. The BU household is satisfied the actors who should know about this matter are aware. It is not every action we broadcast but the BU family in the main has shown us confidence to do the right thing. It’s how we have established the little goodwill we have accrued so far. As previously stated you can join the bandwagon of labeling BU. We know our objectives, we have an idea how we want to achieve those objectives.
livinginbarbados // July 17, 2009 at 5:18 PM
@David
It’s ok, I can read at any speed and words that are meaningless stay that way, irrespective of the speed of delivery. Your objectives are indeed clear.
livinginbarbados // July 17, 2009 at 5:21 PM
@David
I think your weekend would be well spent reading up on integrity and accountability so that you can start the week off well equipped for a series of discussions on that. The case studies can be many, but the issues are few.
John // July 17, 2009 at 5:22 PM
Jack Bowman // July 17, 2009 at 4:51 pm
Quoting David: “Members of the BU family are free to contact the school if they want”.
Can someone please give me the name of the school?
It’s too late to call now, but if I get the name of the school I will call first thing in the morning and alert them to the fact that “the BU family” is publishing video on the internet of the school’s adolescent female pupils .
Thanks.
++++++++++++++++++++++
The uniform looks like that of Springer Memorial, one of the few all girls school left in Barbados and usually the school that wins the Girls sports if my memory serves me right.
Probably best to try Monday morning.
Maybe it would be good to hear what the Minister of Education has to say about the whole matter too.
…. and you are right, I am making assumptions about what I see.
Perhaps what we are seeing a dance class and the teacher was teaching this form of dance expression.
Apologies.
Red Herring // July 17, 2009 at 5:25 PM
David // July 17, 2009 at 10:09 am
“The objective of posting the video is NOT to embarrass this school…”
This sounds very familar, but I cannot rememember where or when I heard it before, I am sure it was fairly recent though.
I wonder if dominace at an annual sport event for nearly a decade, is a factor in this?
John // July 17, 2009 at 2:50 pm
“I see represented in that class room children who come from most if not all of the classes in Barbados…”
How were you able to do that?
All I see are young girls executing/demonstrating ” dances” seen in dancehall and hip-hop videos.
Jack Bowman // July 17, 2009 at 3:13 pm
When yuh rite, yuh rite, and when yuh rong, yuh rong; yuh right… this time.
Feel free to correct any spelling, punctuation or grammatical errors.
Jack Bowman // July 17, 2009 at 5:28 PM
@ David
Quoting David, who was doing his absolute best to sound gifted while addressing LIB:
“Let us write slowly for you … As previously stated you can join the bandwagon of labelling, BU we know our objectives, we have an idea whow we want to achieve those objectives.”
David, perhaps you should write even more slowly—at least slow enough so you remember where all the commas and full stops go, the proper placement of subject pronouns, and how most of the English-speaking world spells the word “how”.
Best wishes to you.
David // July 17, 2009 at 5:29 PM
@John
Can we respecfully ask that contact be made in September 2009? We believe the schools are out on summer break. Feel free to email Minister Jones, Chief Education Officer Dr. Wendy Griffith-Watson or Deputy Chief Education Officer Isamay Denny. They no doubt are already aware.
199 // July 17, 2009 at 5:44 PM
LIB, did n’t you inadvertently, alight at the wrong island! Ops, I forgot, you’re all dying to get out of there, are n’t u!!
lol!!
Now you’re in OUR country, learn to behave yourself or **** off, back where you came from!!
And I hope that THAT is clear!!
Jack Bowman // July 17, 2009 at 5:47 PM
@ David
Quoting David, who was replying to John::
“Can we respecfully [sic] ask that contact be made in September 2009? We believe the schools are out on summer break. Feel free to email Minister Jones, Chief Education Officer Dr, Wendy Griffith-Watson or DeputyChirf [sic] Education Officer Isamay Denny are no doubt are [sic] alread [sic] aware.”
David,
May we respectfully suggest that this is a matter that cannot and will not wait. Surely we understand that a problem arises if we publish on the internet what seems to be covertly-filmed video of adolescent girls dancing in their school uniforms in a manner that offends us because we believe it to be somehow sexually suggestive.
Doubtless we appreciate that we are simultaneously appalled by the video even as we give it a wider audience. Without question we would want this brought to ther attention of the authorities without delay.
Certainly we are perturbed by our curious obsession with and constant use of the first-person plural subject pronoun, and occasionally we have been concerned by it. But we have decided not to worry about it too much because it seems simply to be a strange verbal tic of ours. Just as we don’t worry about any of our grammar or, indeed, about much of our thinking.
Yardbroom // July 17, 2009 at 6:06 PM
May I quote:
“Peace to all of god will. Peace to all except subliterate racist tools”
The grammar I will leave to others.
Mongoose // July 17, 2009 at 6:19 PM
Besides laughing my head off, I now stand and applaud my computer screen.
Mongoose // July 17, 2009 at 6:21 PM
uhhhhhh, the applause was for Jack not the Yardfowl
livinginbarbados // July 17, 2009 at 7:14 PM
Poor 199 thinks ‘our’ country is where our ancestors were despatched from a slave ship. Having no idea if his/her real ancestors were despatched elsewhere. Poor deluded individual. You wonder why you face hostility in England. I guess ‘they’ object to ‘you’ being in ‘their’ country.
queenam // July 17, 2009 at 7:49 PM
these girls were not dancing for an audience. they were having their own fun and one of them betrayed their innocence. I do not see any males in the audience. For heaven sake leave them alone. I bet every one of you condemning those young virgins did something maybe worse maybe not when you were their age but there were no cameras around so no one to condemn. that was a private fun for that particular classroom. the adult who chose to put it on this blog is extremely irresponsible and narrow minded.
Themis // July 17, 2009 at 10:42 PM
Jack Bowman, why do you persist in pointing out grammatical and spelling errors on a blog, of all places. The key here is communication, not adherence to principles which are to be followed in formal writing. RELAX!
In any event, you are not entirely guiltless. At 5:28 you wrote “absolute best”. Is there a degree of “best” just below that? And if so, what is it?
Sargeant // July 18, 2009 at 12:01 AM
LIB
199 like he get under your skin…
Anyway I was in agreement with you when you wrote the following “For those who think they can see the origins of thing by just looking across the water to another Caribbean island” Some Bajans always looking for scapegoats and it is easy to blame others when we don’t have answers. Then you wrote
“But, few children get to be adults without the aid and ‘guidance’ of adults” which appears that you are blaming the parents. This approach is wrong; children or young adults do what they do and one of the things they do is to emulate their heroes, when I was a teenager playing cricket everyone wanted to be the next Gary Sobers or Seymour Nurse so we would try to bat like them and walk like them etc. perhaps it is the same for these girls maybe their heroes do these dances and they are happy to imitate them but there is a caveat, these children live in a YouTube world and every misstep is likely to be recorded on a cell phone and posted to their ever lasting embarrassment. When we were younger any gaffes were not subject to videotape and later we had the opportunity to smile ruefully and wonder “what were we thinking”. To your point about parents, do you not know of any examples of parents doing their dam nest to get their child on the right path and yet the child screws up? When children reach a certain age the biggest influence is their peers and nothing a parent says or do is as important as what their peers and friends say, if you can determine who their friends are then you would have won the battle. One last thing College students in North America are warned not to post embarrassing photos on Face book etc. as potential employers may check them out before hiring. If today’s would be entrant to the corporate world was yesterday’s beer swilling, skinny dipping, grass smoking student they may find their career sort circuited
199 // July 18, 2009 at 1:39 AM
LIB says:
You wonder why you face hostility in England. I guess ‘they’ object to ‘you’ being in ‘their’ country.
*****************
Actually, the reason is they mistake me for a Jamaican!!
David // July 18, 2009 at 2:02 AM
Reading the comments/feedback on the merits and demerits of posting the video it raised the question in our minds.
To what extents does the current older generation owe it to the current younger generation to inject its wisdow/knowledge distilled over years towards edifying the new generation?
RN // July 18, 2009 at 2:50 AM
queenam
Agree with everything you say.
As for you, Jack Bowman – Themis is spot-on: you ought to consider giving your snotty little grammar lessons a rest.
You have a reasonable command of English grammar and a fluent prose style. Good for you. Some here don’t. No need to get your panties in a twist about it.
I mean, do you really think you’re impressing anyone (apart from little Mongoose)? This is a blog, not a school room.
Frankly, you’re starting to sound like a bit of a tool.
Best wishes to you and your family.
Red Herring // July 18, 2009 at 3:04 AM
“Inject” implies force and most people react negatively when forced to do something.
Children should be made aware of expected standards and encouraged to achieve them.
The real challenge is in getting all of the older generation to display these expected standards.
The origins of any difficulties, posed by the younger generation, can always be found in the older generation, if one cared to look hard enough.
The modus operandi should be, “do as I do” and not the current, “do as I say”.
livinginbarbados // July 18, 2009 at 4:22 AM
@199
“Actually, the reason is they mistake me for a Jamaican!!” [And all your efforts to convince them otherwise have failed? Is it that they really don't care? Keep dreaming your dreams. Got to say that I have always found that due respect gets given where respect is due.]
livinginbarbados // July 18, 2009 at 4:30 AM
@David
“To what extents does the current older generation owe it to the current younger generation to inject its wisdow/knowledge distilled over years towards edifying the new generation?” [Hoping that I have read this correctly. If this is a question you are now asking, then that says something about your thinking process. What does it say that you have to ask what is the role of parents in developing their children? As some have observed, any fool can produce a child, but it takes more than a fool to raise one well. Parenting is an active skill, not a passive one. Parenting is hard, not easy. Parenting is not an option, but an obligation. Parenting does not end while the parties are living, and often continues after the death of the parent (whether the lessons are good or bad). Parenting is not baby sitting, and is not to be passed off to other people: they can help or hinder but the primary role should stay. And more in the same vein. A read of Obama’s recent NAACP speech can give some other pointers about what parents should be aiming to do. Perhaps a reread of the Hoad commentary is also appropriate.
David // July 18, 2009 at 5:27 AM
This is the problem, we (BU household) keep hearing the argument parents must parent, and who rightfully can deny? The point we have failed to make is the current state in society shows a high level of parental delinquency which in our opinion is linked to how modern society is shaped ie nuclear family and other lifestyle and cultural changes which have taken placed linked to progress..
So in summary the model of parenting is the way nature has designed the process to rear children to optimum, the current state says to us we are in a win-lose situation taking a pragmatic view. The solution in our opinion is not lament the implosion of the parenting model but to examine how society can fill a void.
Livinginbarbados // July 18, 2009 at 6:04 AM
@David
“The point we have failed to make is the current state in society shows a high level of parental delinquency which in our opinion is linked to how modern society is shaped ie nuclear family and other lifestyle and cultural changes which have taken placed linked to progress..
So in summary the model of parenting is the way nature has designed the process to rear children to optimum, the current state says to us we are in a win-lose situation taking a pragmatic view. The solution in our opinion is not lament the implosion of the parenting model but to examine how society can fill a void. ” [Parental delinquency is not new, nor especially pronounced now. I’m not sure if you really mean ‘nuclear’ (say two parents plus children) or ‘extended’ (several generations living closely together) families. But both models have worked very well, with the nuclear replacing the extended in some societies now, and the nuclear being much less evident in some societies. Many families in the Caribbean were not nuclear, because a high proportion of children were and are still born out of wedlock and with fathers who did not stay at home or with the mother (remember that slavery denied the right to marry, so we are relatively new to this kind of set up).
Much has changed in society and parenting styles is part of that, but so too are expectations. Many of my generation will recall that when they were children, they were expected to do work in the home before going to school, to and from which they would walk, then do more chores after returning home. Living styles and locations are now much different. We may also remember that everyone (in the village, say) was responsible for the children, and bad behaviour was often dealt with by the nearest adult. Now, such approaches are less accepted. Some would say for the worse, some say for the better. Certain manners were encouraged and reinforced. That is no longer the case.
However, you may want to load all of the ills on the shoulders of parents. My parents would say that they grew up in world that had just experienced two world wars and whatever it takes they would not want that for their children. They would say that they knew what hungry belly means and do not want that for their children. They would say that they have taught the difference between right and wrong and will not wait for God to meet me in heaven to show me what was wrong. Etc. We’ll all have our stories.
I do not know what you are trying to say with “the model of parenting is the way nature has designed the process to rear children to optimum”. Nature has many models of child rearing.
Hard Driver // July 18, 2009 at 6:26 AM
@ David
You must elaborate on what you mean.
I cant help but see in your solution a fundamentalist Christian conservative dictatorial society.
A western version of North Korea.
Is that what we want?? Don’t think so.
Some aspects I would agree with though, like mandatory military service for all at school leaving age for a limited period.
Discipline is what todays youth lack, we have raised then up in a fast food society. They don’t have the focus to stick it out till the jobs done.
With parents of today always up in arms at the first hint of a teacher disciplining their child, what can society do?
Answer … Educate the parents….
Adrian Hinds // July 18, 2009 at 6:37 AM
Yardbroom, Themis, RN, simply ignore Jack Bowman.
“Peace to all of god will.”
John // July 18, 2009 at 6:46 AM
Hard Driver // July 18, 2009 at 6:26 am
Answer … Educate the parents….
++++++++++++++++++++
… or flog them since we no longer flog the children!!!
… being facetious this morning, don’t take me seriously.
David // July 18, 2009 at 6:57 AM
@Harddriver
It is easy to preach educate the parents with qualities which should be innate and instinctive to start. Whose doctrines and philosophies are we going to instill? Who will be charges with training the parents? What we know is the concept of it takes a village to raise a child has not been refuted but becomes impractical in our modern society. The teachers for example a key partner in the rearing of the child now models an economic behaviour for the most part. The shortcomings of parents who were delinquent in the old days were compensated for by the village approach. At this point we have not been able to fill this void and a laissez-faire approach appears to be the standard.
Mongoose // July 18, 2009 at 8:00 AM
Themis, RN: If you look back you will see that it is predominantly David who Jack takes to task over his appallingly bad spelling, grammar, dangling sentences and the misuse of words in the wrong context. If David wishes put himself out there in cyberspace with all that entails, in other words opening yourself up to both praise and criticism, then at the very least he should attempt to do so in an intelligent cohesive way, otherwise he will most certainly get the criticism he deserve. Some of us are not accustomed to having to pick our way through poorly constructed English in an attempt to understand what is being communicated. Don’t even bother suggesting that this has anything to do with Bajan dialect as I speak local dialect with the best of them. If David is not able or willing to post in clear and understandable English then perhaps he is defeating the whole purpose of starting a blog in the first place.
Mongoose // July 18, 2009 at 8:03 AM
Adrian Hinds: “Yardbroom, Themis, RN, simply ignore Jack Bowman.”
Spoken like a true narcissist, who can not bear for anyone to deflect attention away from himself.
Bush Tea // July 18, 2009 at 8:58 AM
…..now let me see…. which is better? a practical, reasoned position that pays little regard to the formalities of the English language – or a snide, childish line presented in impeccable grammar?
Bush tea is on David’s side…
Adrian Hinds // July 18, 2009 at 9:52 AM
So David will become embarrass and stop contributing to BU and eventually close the blog down. ha ha ha lol!
Is Jack Bowman a man or mangoose?
@ Hopi
I just pick up ‘Stolen Continents” The “New World” Through Indian Eyes By Ronald Wright.
Do you want to know how American Indians “dicovered” Europe? Read this book — Eduardo Galeano, author of Memory of Fire
It contain some quotes that you may find usefull in your contributions to the Race thread.
Such as :
God cannot alter the past, historians can — Samuel Butler
History is a set of lies agreed upon — Napoleon Bonaparte
History begins for us with murder and enslavement, not with discovery — William Carlos Williams
Bush Tea: most language mavens produce little worthy of futher thought by others.
Land Lady // July 18, 2009 at 11:19 AM
The school is aware of this video which occurred in the 2007-2008 school year.
The children were punished. Some persons are trying to embarrass the school by circulating an old cell phone video this year. It only shows that Minister Jones must support schools in the banning of cell phones in schools. His recent mouthings are hurting the educational system
Livinginbarbados // July 18, 2009 at 12:05 PM
@ Sargeant // July 18, 2009 at 12:01 am
Little gets under my skin in the sense you mean. But as they say one should not let a loud voice deafen the ears to other’s remarks. As you might have discerned, I try to roll to the positive. I now know the sum of three consecutive primes (61 + 67 + 71) as well as the sum of five consecutive primes (31 + 37 + 41 + 43 + 47). That’s quite a discovery.
I think we are broadly agreed on the parenting aspects, and emulating heroes is important. But I say adults need to help put the right ‘heroes’ out there. I used ‘guidance’ in the sense that adults are experienced, should understand consequences better, and are responsible. They should discharge guidance based on that (but of course not all have the same or good intentions). Many adults are now afraid to admonish children (I do not say ’sanction’ as some interpret that as involving brutality). Case: last week, a group of 9-15 year olds were fighting over a tennis ball one of them had stolen from the courts at Barclays Terrace. One 9 year old boy was hurling a rock at a 10 year old girl and cursing her with the f- word. The older children (14-15 year olds) stood on. I arrived to see and hear this and I intervened. I asked the teenagers if they thought the youngsters were acting responsibly. No. I asked why they did not stop them. They shrugged their shoulders. I told the boy to put down the rock, and put the tennis ball back in the court. Then told the group to leave. They left, muttering. Was I right? I think so. Was I scared? No. Did I fear their parents would come and ‘deal with me’? No. Would I do it again? In a heart beat. Will they never do this again? I don’t know, but I don’t see that I should leave it to go where it could and then everybody concerned is running around blaming each other for why a girl had her head caved in (extreme result but not impossible).
Much of the discussion only makes sense if we think we are agreed on values and the behaviour that will build a certain kind of decent society. What we adults tolerate from children will be there to haunt us and them.
Yes, parents try their damnedest and fail. Yes, some parents have no idea of what to do. But adults en masse are also not supposed to throw in the towel. The task of rearing children is never over.
Livinginbarbados // July 18, 2009 at 12:17 PM
@Land Lady
Were the children punished for what they did or for what they were seen to have done? In other words, would the school act or have acted on a verbal report of similar behaviour? Was the school embarrassed by what had taken place rather than that it was filmed? (This is not trivial as someone asked a pertinent question the other day whether it is the act, the actors, or both which cause embarrassment.)
Presumably, you are not suggesting that the cell phones caused the acts. We can argue that it may be irresponsible to make and circulate the video. But I think that’s a separate set of issues.
I personally do not feel that children need to have cell phones at school. But am trying to see what people oppose. If a school child used a cell phone to film a rape at school or other criminal act, which was then handed to the police, would you applaud or condemn the child and the filming?
Not wishing to trick or embarrass, so feel free to decline to comment.
David // July 18, 2009 at 12:43 PM
Don’t you think the act of standing on the furniture would have been punishable as a standalone?
What about the fact that some of girls would have unbuttoned their tops for better effect?
The video does not pan enough to make a conclusive comment but it appears a desk as been moved to block the door of the classroom?
Anonymous // July 18, 2009 at 12:50 PM
David, there are lots of issues about the behaviour that should raise questions and warrant punishment. I am viewing this with some mothers of children about the same age and all they can say is “That’s …. School. We are shocked? Where are the teachers?”
The lady who seems to know should perhaps point out more about how the school dealt with the matter and if there have been incidents since.
Anonymous // July 18, 2009 at 1:09 PM
These things don’t happen at QC or St.Michael. Why?
Themis // July 18, 2009 at 2:57 PM
Who says they don’t, Anonymous? Perhaps the video is kept under wraps!
John // July 18, 2009 at 3:41 PM
Anonymous // July 18, 2009 at 1:09 pm
These things don’t happen at QC or St.Michael. Why?
+++++++++++++++++++++
Are you sure?
John // July 18, 2009 at 3:48 PM
Adrian Hinds // July 18, 2009 at 9:52 am
History is a set of lies agreed upon — Napoleon Bonaparte
++++++++++++++++++++++++
Agree 100% with Napoleon.
A man way ahead of his time.
That’s why I like to do my own research and get what facts are available.
I can make my own interpretations myself thank you very much.
Don’t trust others to do the job for me and expect others won’t trust the job I do for myself either!!
It goes with the territory associated with delving back into the past.
RN // July 18, 2009 at 4:42 PM
David said:
“What about the fact that some of girls would have unbuttoned their tops for better effect? ”
“Would have”?? What on earth are you talking about?
Think about what you’re saying man. It makes you sound more than a little creepy.
Are you familiar with the term “prurient”? It means an unhealthy obsession with sexual matters.
What I see in this clip is a bunch of kids doing what kids have always done: namely, play the fool and show off in front of each other when (and I’d put money on this) there’s no adult around. I bet they all rushed to their seats as soon as they heard teacher coming!
I’m well aware that all kinds of gross stuff goes on in our schools these days. But really, this video simply isn’t any kind of illustration of it. Give the kids a break!
I urge you all to read queenam’s post again.
And beware of your own prurience!
Anonymous // July 18, 2009 at 4:52 PM
That is a Jamaican dance, the “bashment girls” is do that, this is usually 5% or so of the girls in every class.
These bashment girls usually come from a bashment family.
This type of behavior is expected of them and the teachers would probably know who was on the video with only a verbal description of the act.
Grown folk often try to discourage this behavour, but never provide a alternative
Also this is no different from crop over.
Anonymous // July 18, 2009 at 5:09 PM
Themis & John
I was just being naughty! Of course these things go on at those schools and all the other schools too. I endorse RN comments on this storm in a teacup.
Livinginbarbados // July 18, 2009 at 6:27 PM
Bush Tea wrote: “…..now let me see…. which is better? a practical, reasoned position that pays little regard to the formalities of the English language – or a snide, childish line presented in impeccable grammar?” [If the position pays little regard to formalities of the English language it could end up not reading as practical and reasoned. It depends what disregard there is. Minor spelling mistakes can often be interpreted/skated over. Misuse of words can cause confusion. That said, I think we give each author the benefit of the doubt, and if in real doubt, spend time to seek clarification. Each of us, makes the slip of the digit, and spell/grammar checker is not here to help. That said, some will wish to make points on grammar (and they may be or seem snide and/or childish) but would prefer some of that to the profane abuse that others wish to put forth in the place of practical and reasoned positions. But I am but one author.]
David // July 18, 2009 at 7:09 PM
It is known that much of Black history in Barbados was recorded by Whites who owned the slaves.
It is reasonable to think deliberately or not we all have our filters.
Agree with you John!
victor // July 18, 2009 at 8:08 PM
How many posters know of incest in famiIy or friends in Barbados? It’s rife and expIains the number of chiIdren with AIDS, extremeIy high in the deveIoped worId.
Jack Bowman // July 18, 2009 at 9:14 PM
@ Themis
Quoting Themis: “At 5:28 you wrote ‘absolute best’. Is there a degree of ‘best’ just below that? And if so, what is it?”
When you’re right, you’re right. I suppose we’ll just have to retire the very common term “second best” from the English lexicon.
Jack Bowman // July 18, 2009 at 9:14 PM
@ RN
Quoting RN: “Frankly, you’re starting to sound like a bit of a tool.”
Now that stings. After all, I really do spend most of my waking life trying to think of ways in which I could impress you.
Jack Bowman // July 18, 2009 at 9:15 PM
@ Themis and @ RN
Quoting Themis: “The key here is communication, not adherence to principles which are to be followed in formal writing.”
Quoting RN: “This is a blog, not a school room.”
The key here is communication, Themis avers. Now that’s an interesting proposition. And here’s a statement made on this very same thread, in one single and complete sentence:
“The teachers for example a key partner in the rearing of the child now models an economic behaviour for the most part.”
I agree with you, Themis. Communication is important. Can you tell me: what specific idea is the writer of that sentence trying to communicate to me and you? What does the sentence actually mean?
Did you understand it the first time you read it? Did you have to read it twice, or more?
I didn’t understand it the first time I read it. I didn’t understand it the second time I read it. What I did understand is that someone with a fervent opinion about public education who can’t write a coherent sentence about teachers is someone who should not be allowed to make public policy in the field of education.
That person, of course, has every right to hold any opinion about public education and about teachers.
As you say, Themis, communication is (to use your word; personally, I try to avoid it) “key”.
So let’s consider some more “communication” (no grammar lessons here). A writer on this very same thread said this:
“So in summary the model of parenting is the way nature has designed the process to rear children to optimum, the current state says to us we are in a win-lose situation taking a pragmatic view.”
I didn’t understand that the first time I read it. I didn’t understand it the second time I read it. You’re not supposed to have to read sentences twice. That is the entire point of “communication”.
It’s confusing in so many ways. It starts by claiming that it’s a summary of previous arguments that have not actually been made, and then wanders off into what seems to be an arbitrary collection of random terms and wearying buzz-words. It does not “communicate” anything.
Perhaps I’m wrong. Perhaps you could try to explain it to me. But you are a braver person than I am if you even dare to assume that you know better than the writer what she/he means by the curious use of the verb “to model” in the first example above.
As any cognitive linguist or neurologist of your acquaintance will tell you, clarity of writing is always a reliable index of clarity of thought. This is a sad fact, one now so mapped by brain scanning that it is beyond any reasonable argument.
An exception might be made for native English speakers who are dyslexic. The condition disproportionately affects native speakers of English. The academic literature has reached no consensus on the matter, but it does seem to be probable that the very philology of the English language is conducive to dyslexia.
I have suspected for some time that the writer of this blog might indeed be an undiagnosed dyslexic. She/he betrays some of the standard symptoms. A very simple test requiring no more than half an hour, a test that is readily available in Barbados and that can be administered by excellent professionals, would resolve the question.
Oh, and now to RN, who called me a “tool”.
To re-quote RN: “This is a blog, not a school room.”
Right. On this one single thread on this blog, the owner is reproducing covert video of little girls wiggling their bottoms, while he’s simultaneously (i) deploring the state of education in Barbados; (ii) giving the video a wider audience; and (iii) murdering the English language in an international arena accessible to the very schoolchildren whose education he deplores.
He posts a video condemning their activities and writes about it in a way so pitifully incoherent that any schoolchild should be taught to avoid writing in that way. And the kids can (and will) see the blog that is “not a school room”.
They’ll see things like this:
“You get highly offended when your white thrash counterparts taste the wrath of Black People.”
“You & your white thrash family & friends could go and find some place to exterminate you all self.”
“This world will be peaceful with less white thrash people on it.”
“You & your white thrash family & friends exit this world.”
Nice … may your god go with you, chicos.
Carson C. Cadogan // July 18, 2009 at 9:37 PM
Anyone noticed that not all the girls in the classroom are involved?
TheNickster // July 18, 2009 at 10:06 PM
I saw this video and thought those are the politicians of the future. Seriously. Good old days you say? with the drunken beatings, the incest and not to mention the whole women’s rights thing null and void? The earlier comments sound heavily communistic, boot camp, strict structure, radio and Tv censorship. Why stop there, bring on the mood altering drugs and the mind control devices, control for school children when most of the voting age folk can’t even control themselves? preposterous! I have seen things like this in school and some of them have made great successes of themselves, so one instance of someone’s life determining the whole-out come? Please.
If sitting and behaving like good little drones produces the likes of Noel Lynch, Mia Mottley and those of the DLP camp, I’ll pick the gyrating desk dancers everytime.
John // July 18, 2009 at 10:45 PM
David // July 18, 2009 at 7:09 pm
It is known that much of Black history in Barbados was recorded by Whites who owned the slaves.
It is reasonable to think deliberately or not we all have our filters.
Agree with you John!
++++++++++++++++++
I don’t know if I would agree with the statement that much of Black history in Barbados was recorded by Whites who owned the slaves.
I know of a “History” book published in 1649 by Richard Ligon who owned no slaves as far as I am able to determine.
He was an Englishman visiting Barbados, but more than likely “white”.
There is the Reverend Griffith Hughes who published a natural History book in 1750.
I have not checked but it is possible he owned slaves. More than likely he was “white”.
There is John Poyer who published 1805 and more than likely owned slaves and then there is Robert Schonburgk who published his work in 1850 or thereabouts.
Definitely he did not own slaves. Both of them probably “white”.
Unless I can find corroboration of statements in these history books from other sources I view the statements therein as possibly being false because these books contain interpretations these gentlemen made based on facts not available to me.
When I speak of the History of an era I mean an interpretation of a set of facts from that era.
It is true that most of the data points (hesitate to call them facts) from the era of slavery would most likely have been recorded by people who could be described as “white” but not all of them owned slaves.
I view letters from people of the era, or reports etc. as data points and consider them facts when they can be independently corroborated or referenced against some other data point.
The parish registers during the era of slavery were recorded by parish priests.
I view a baptism certificate, marriage certificate, or burial certificate as a fact.
I am pretty sure all of these priests would have been “white” but some of them may not have owned slaves.
I’ll have a look at the 1817 returns and see how many reverends owned slaves.
I can remember seeing a Reverend Scott and a Reverend from the Sharon Moravian Church, think his surname was Danson, who made returns but can’t remember any more off the top of my head.
I remember being quite amazed by this when I went through the returns in detail as figured I would have seen numerous Reverends.
I view wills and deeds as facts.
Many of these would have been caused to have been recorded by “white” people who owned slaves but I figure many would also have been caused to have been recorded by Free Negroes and Free Mulattoes who may or may not have owned slaves ….. and of course “white” people who did not own slaves .. not to mention Jews, and Quakers.
History could never be as straightforward as “black” and “white” because there are so many shades of grey.
That is why I find it so interesting.
So this is all I keep saying.
“Black” and “white” don’t work in understanding Barbadian society.
John // July 18, 2009 at 10:57 PM
Carson C. Cadogan // July 18, 2009 at 9:37 pm
Anyone noticed that not all the girls in the classroom are involved?
+++++++++++++++++++++++++
I don’t remember the whole of my form ever receiving a flogging but certainly we were regularly in detention.
Sometimes only one boy was guilty but all paid because none would give up the boy.
It is called shared responsibility!!!
When Cabinet makes a boo boo like Greenland all members are expected to close ranks.
They did, but they were not called to account, ….. no flogging or detention, so we have $50 million gone!!
I have no doubt there were instigators and the thing got out of hand but in my view the only way a form member could get off is if that form member was absent from school or could account for their whereabouts when the video was taken.
I would not expect the non participants to own up and implicate the instigators, unless school has changed significantly from my day.
Adrian Hinds // July 19, 2009 at 12:23 AM
Once again Jack Bowman enters, records his thoughts and we are none wiser. Such is to be expected from language mavens, it’s the only authority they have.
Quotations2000: The teachers are fighting a losing battle because even the language mavens are losing their grip on the distinction. — Steven Pinker in Words and Rules ISBN 0060958405, p. 77
Adrian Hinds // July 19, 2009 at 12:44 AM
@LIB
Minor spelling mistakes can often be interpreted/skated over. Misuse of words can cause confusion. That said, I think we give each author the benefit of the doubt, and if in real doubt, spend time to seek clarification. Each of us, makes the slip of the digit, and spell/grammar checker is not here to help. That said, some will wish to make points on grammar (and they may be or seem snide and/or childish)
Let me “interjeck” here; as I may have “interseed” in the past. lol! I wanted to write “interjuck” (uh “jucking in muh mout)
Were you interpreting and skating over here? http://livinginbarbados.blogspot.com/search?updated-max=2009-07-05T06%3A22%3A00-04%3A00
The truth is likely to be that you are just as childish and silly as Jack Bowman. To give credit were due, you for the most part do make valuable contributions to BU. Jack Bowman is yet to do so. Thus far it appears he is experiencing some reluctant to move away from critiquing spelling and grammar mistakes. Maybe for once he can devout some space to share his thoughts on what is being said. I am sure he understands it all.
Adrian Hinds // July 19, 2009 at 12:51 AM
Adrian Hinds // July 19, 2009 at 12:44 am
@LIB
Minor spelling mistakes can often be interpreted/skated over. Misuse of words can cause confusion. That said, I think we give each author the benefit of the doubt, and if in real doubt, spend time to seek clarification. Each of us, makes the slip of the digit, and spell/grammar checker is not here to help. That said, some will wish to make points on grammar (and they may be or seem snide and/or childish)
Let me “interjeck” here; as I may have “interseed” in the past. lol! I wanted to write “interjuck” (uh “jucking in muh mout)
Were you interpreting and skating over here? http://livinginbarbados.blogspot.com/search?updated-max=2009-07-05T06%3A22%3A00-04%3A00
The truth is likely to be that you are just as childish and silly as Jack Bowman. To give credit were due, you for the most part do make valuable contributions to BU. Jack Bowman is yet to do so. Thus far it appears he is experiencing some reluctance to move away from critiquing spelling and grammar mistakes. Maybe for once he can devote some space to share his thoughts on what is being said. I am sure he understands it all.
RN // July 19, 2009 at 1:15 AM
Jack B:
I think you’re too fussed about grammar/clarity of expression and so on. Perhaps unintentionally (I’ll be charitable) you come across as patronizing and supercilious.
But your other substantive criticisms of this thread are valid.
A video of a bunch of Bajan children messing around is hardly a sign of the end of civilization as we know it. And a few of the comments do suggest a lip-smacking prurience that’s both creepy and risible.
One other thing: negroman’s pathetic comments really don’t merit reposting. The guy’s obviously not right in the head.
He’s scared, helpless, full of an inchoate rage he just doesn’t know what to do with. An anonymous blog like this is his only outlet.
Pity him.
But don’t quote him…
Adrian Hinds // July 19, 2009 at 6:07 AM
What has Negroman said to warrant YOUR opinions of him?
Livinginbarbados // July 19, 2009 at 6:25 AM
@AH
“The truth is likely to be that you are just as childish and silly…” [I always try to stay in touch with my childish side. With a 5 year old often on hand, it gives me an even chance. I really believe much of what I have read about the value of laughter, http://www.umm.edu/features/laughter.htm
Mongoose // July 19, 2009 at 6:28 AM
If you do not know the answer to that question AH, then you are to be pitied also.
Yardbroom // July 19, 2009 at 9:08 AM
Anger can be demonstrated in many ways, but to see a supposed intelligent man enraged because of a slight by someone he deems subliterate – his term – is illuminating.
Barbadian society is complex and sometimes difficult to understand, but the rage and subliminal messages evident on this thread is testimony to its complexity under a superficial calm.
Some people are intelligent and thus able to “understand” learn and think things out quickly. Unfortunately some are only able to “understand”…that is both sad and unfortunate, when it can be seen in unbridled wrath and a diminishing of their esteem.
You and the person you criticise are the same; your work is parallel and the tragedy is that you with your claimed intellectual ability cannot see it; an entrenched position laying waste to all who do not concur or see the world as you do, or as you perceive they should.
How could your self esteem be so brittle that it matters so much what a subliterate – you term – says about you.
Ps: Your personal attacks, even of the most vicious kind will have no effect on me.
Adrian Hinds // July 19, 2009 at 9:38 AM
Man Yardie, I was hoping to get back to this thread to continue coaxing Bowman/Mongoose to, contravene RN’s call not to quote Negroman, and then to parallel any offered up, to statements they themselves have uttered. Their comments and retorts are soaked in the delusion of superiority. “How dare they?” they seemly ask! And so we must be whipped.
@LIB
A child is more likely to misspelled than to laugh at someone else’s spelling and bad grammar. But if you must, once a man twice a child.
mash up & buy back // July 19, 2009 at 10:16 AM
Yardbroom & Adrian
It seems to me that jack bowman and mongoose and the others who may very well be one and the same.
They are all fixtures at Barbados Free Press (BFP) who have been very strident in their condemnation of BU and their calls for BFP to remove BU from its side bar.
To now have to crawl back to the very blog they have been condemning speaks volumes.
Despite their juvenille attempt at trying to goad bloggers by their stupid comments about grammar,bloggers should know that it is persons like negroman and hopi etc they are really getting at.
BFP is almost at the comatose stage and it is obvious no one is reading Bowman et al’s condemnation of negroman,hopi and BU that they make over at the BFP,so they have come over here seeking to be disruptive,knowing how lenient David can be.
I deliberately ignore them,and just refuse to read any of thier postings,except when it is incorporated in someone else’s post.
Everytime I see them and Piedpiper posting here,I know that BU is doing something right.
livinginbarbados // July 19, 2009 at 10:21 AM
@AH: I won’t be spellbound by the misspelling. We adults are not children and can choose which childish paths to take. I would teach my child to spell correctly and show that the misspelling can create the laughable, sometimes in a manner than offend, other times in a manner that should be taken as pure mirth. I’m laughing off the loss of electricity this bright morning. I will just rest for a spell.
Adrian Hinds // July 19, 2009 at 10:36 AM
Indeed BFP is hurting badly. Every now and then they post some article that jumpstarts interest in their blog, albeit temporary. What is consistent for them leads to inconsistent link popularity results. Often times third last of the ten bajan related blogs I track. Last week they moved to number one as result of an article with little bajan content. Similar was acheived at the expense of Rihanna. Contrast with BU who has alternated in the top 5 of ten sites 95% of the time with Bajan content. Their goose have been cooked a long time ago.
Saying Nuttin // July 19, 2009 at 11:07 AM
Most of you guys are old and out of touch. You simply don’t understand that the behaviour shown is not just innocent children wukkin up ; It is the manifestation of a bashment/dancehall/ghetto/ZR culture that can take over a person’s entire life; their body and mind.
A culture which glorifies guns and ganja; scorns police, laws and lawmakers; denigrates “informers”; promotes misogynation and the denigration of women; glorifies lewd and crude behaviour and casual and promiscuous sex.
Simply put it is undesirable. Nothing is wrong with wining and even wukkin up but the crude shit which passes for dancing in the ghetto culture and which has made its way into calypso and soca is defintely not to be condoned.
How many of the apologists would be content to see their 12 or 13 year old daughter getting on so? how many of you would say it’s quite alright dear nothing wrong with expressing yourself?
If you would expect your daughters to act with more class and decorum than the behaviour exhibited in the video why is it acceptable from other persons daughters?
livinginbarbados // July 19, 2009 at 11:15 AM
@Saying Nuttin: ” Nothing is wrong with wining and even wukkin up but the crude shit which passes for dancing in the ghetto culture and which has made its way into calypso and soca is defintely not to be condoned” (That’s slicing the cake and saying your piece is fine but the rest can’t be eaten. You really think that children wukkin up is ok? I’m not prudish but I know of what I would disapprove as behaviour from a child. Yours, older, wiser and very much in touch.)
Saying Nuttin // July 19, 2009 at 11:24 AM
I take your point and i would clarify that I meant wukkin up (in a reasonable manner) and wining is ok for adults really. You are right in that children can dance but its really not acceptable for children to be gyrating in the sexual way which is “wukkin up” today.
livinginbarbados // July 19, 2009 at 11:36 AM
@David or anyone: Could you post the lyrics of Whitney Houston’s song, The Greatest Love, and let us reflect on that? Impossible to do from my cell phone.
Carson C. Cadogan // July 19, 2009 at 4:02 PM
John
What sort of justice is that?
Making Peter pay for Paul.
What we saw on the video were children in a classroom as they are suppose to be. The low lives among them began to engage in very unseemly behavior. The decent ones sat at their desks peacefully as they are supposed to.
Now you are telling me that when punishment is to be dish out all must be treated the same way, and that sounds reasonable to you.
Therefore what you saying to children, do as you like, because it does matter not if you are good or bad you will all be treated the same way.
If my daughter was one the children who sat peacefully at her desk and did not take part in the foolishness but still got punished, believe me all hell would then break loose, but this time from me.
Sargeant // July 19, 2009 at 4:48 PM
On a related note Peter Simmons argues that Gov’t intervention into the area of parental responsibility e.g providing subsidized Summer camps for children is a further extension of the Gov’t Welfare state and an intrusion into the family unit. He ends by hoping that the recipients of this “freeness” will become “exemplary citizens”.
How do you folks see this benefit or not?
http://www.nationnews.com/comments/guestcolumnists/peter-simmons-July-19-copy-for-web
John // July 19, 2009 at 4:55 PM
Carson C. Cadogan // July 19, 2009 at 4:02 pm
John
What sort of justice is that?
Making Peter pay for Paul.
+++++++++++++++++
Carson
That’s how it worked in my day?
I’ll bet if your daughter was present and took no part and punishment was being dished out that she would want to be with her buddies.
She would probably ask you to keep out of it.
That’s just how the dynamic of the class system worked at school in my day …… and I think there is something positive to be said for it although it seems all wrong.
… it is kind of like one for all and all for one.
It is an honour thing.
This is not a situation you snitch on friends … even though the same friends can get you in serious trouble.
As horrible and loose as the exhibition appears these are still just children letting off steam and doing what they see adults do.
However, they need to get the message that the behaviour is unacceptable, ……. but there is no need for overkill.
Your daughter, if she was in the group, will survive any just punishment very well.
You would only need to get involved if the authorities were to go overboard and administer some extreme punishment.
I believe a parent’s job here should be to show solidarity with the authorities in administering discipline and to keep that discipline just and their child honest from here on.
Livinginbarbados // July 19, 2009 at 5:30 PM
@Sargeant
“He ends by hoping that the recipients of this “freeness” will become “exemplary citizens”. Very limited intervention here.
Freeness is a total misnomer: it is paid for but not directly by the recipients: Joe and Jane taxpayer are paying. It’s a terrible misconception and one reason why so-called ‘free’ goods and services can cause much resentment.
Camps can be good, depending on purpise and duration (but like day care, if it is simply a way to get ‘baby sitting’ then those who fear parental abrogation of responsibility have more of a case). Sending a child to camp for soccer, science, art, and a range of ‘vocational’ things that can be concentrated upon and not clash with the school day/curriculum can be very beneficial. One needs to look at purpose and quality. ‘Jack No-Real-Qualification’ giving junk tuition over a period of several weeks is getting money for old rope. Parents may well be glad to pay the $$ because they would otherwise have to find child care. Don’t throw out the baby and the bath water. Need to look carefully.
A day without power now needs to be readjusted. Oh, I love progress!
Sargeant // July 19, 2009 at 6:05 PM
LIB
Agree that camps can be useful, even if the childrens’ days are filled with recreational activity instead of vocational pursuits. The writer waxes a bit nostalgic when he harkens back to his childhood but time marches on. It would be interesting for him to focus on the difficulty that working parents face today vs his childhood and adolescent years when only one parent was apt to be working.
The point about freeness is not lost, however many people don’t realise that they are really paying for what is supposed to be “free” and when you ask them to pay upfront they complain. “Freeness” has become a way of life, even our leaders of tomorrow– UWI students- who receive free education took to the streets and protested when the University requested fees for some activities.
Livinginbarbados // July 19, 2009 at 6:18 PM
@Sargeant
I honestly took most of the piece as twaddle (not often used these days) and unrealistic, because there was (as is also often the case) no real discussion of realistic alternatives, and dealing with consequences (‘idle hands…’).
We know that as far as politics goes, ‘freeness’ is a stick and carrot,: who gives can then say others take away and vice versa, etc.. There are often groups of people who tend to be net recipients and those who are net payers. If that relationship does not change or seems way out of kilter therein lies a problem of serious marginalisation that politics may not be able to deal with. (It can also be played with other cards, as we know too well, eg, ‘foreigners get it for free’, and the ’spongers’ kind of accusations that can often be levelled at certain groups.)
najo // July 19, 2009 at 9:11 PM
Would you believe these dirty looking males have somebody girl child as a woman. Males get away with many un-natural things simply because the females have lower their standards.
Carson C. Cadogan // July 19, 2009 at 10:27 PM
John
“I’ll bet if your daughter was present and took no part and punishment was being dished out that she would want to be with her buddies.”
Then you really don’t know my daughter. My daughter would not be involved in anything like that. All of our girls are not bad.
John // July 19, 2009 at 11:31 PM
Carson
My point is it was open for the girls apparently sitting down and not taking part to get up and walk out.
Don’t get caught on the video in the first place.
This is what you would expect your daughter to do, and no doubt she would have done it.
But by choosing to be present those girls sitting down are as much a part of the spectacle as any of the others who chose to be both present and “dance”.
…. and once discipline is being administered, it should be administered to all present in the room.
I think those present would have it no other way, they are buddies after all,
…. and those administering the discipline, officials and parents, need to ensure no exceptions are made, hence my point about solidarity between the teachers and the parents.
…. but the problem is that it would surprise none of us if two weeks down the line after Kadooment day there isn’t footage of the persons who are supposed to administer discipline appearing on Spring Garden in their skimpy costumes demonstrating to those children what is acceptable and what is not.
That is just what we have managed to build as a society.
We have invsted millions creating our culture.
So to cut a long story short, I really do not expect any discipline to be administered.
… and yup, our country is in real trouble.
John // July 19, 2009 at 11:41 PM
…. and Carson,
Did you know that the Closed Brethren whose children I went to school with, have their own school, and have had their own school since the 1990’s?
Isn’t that a clear a statement about what has been happening in our schools that they would have gone to the expense to create a separate school?
Sapidillo // July 20, 2009 at 8:03 AM
There is a time and place for everything. I don’t fault the students for having a good time, enjoying themselves; I just don’t thing the venue chosen was the appropriate place. As the saying goes, “all work and no play/fun make Jack/Jill a dull boy/girl.” (laugh)
In my school days, we as kids were also frown upon for doing certain things in the classroom. Two things that come to mind are: writing on the blackboard in the absence of the teacher without permission, running around the classroom.
Looking back at such things, in my mind they were minuscule, but were seen as bad behavior. Furthermore to compare with what took place in the video. But then again, my school days were yesteryear and this is yesterday & today.
Anonymous // July 20, 2009 at 9:10 AM
John
the Closed Brethren want to be separated from other groups. They do not want their children exposed to other points of view. The opening of their own school is no indictment on state schools.
John // July 20, 2009 at 9:47 AM
Anonymous // July 20, 2009 at 9:10 am
John
the Closed Brethren want to be separated from other groups. They do not want their children exposed to other points of view. The opening of their own school is no indictment on state schools.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++
… except that in my day at school, Closed Brethren children rubbed shoulders with me and other students in the Government school system as they had done long before.
So you mean all of a sudden after generations of mixing, they suddenly decide not to let their children mix?
Don’t buy that.
I put it down to either the change to coed or introduction of computers but it wouldn’t surprise me if it is to do with the drop in discipline in schools.
I understand that Major Hugh Barker was involved in the setting up of the school.
I have worked on numerous projects in which Closed Brethren supplied goods and services and have not come across this feeling of wanting to be separate.
Rather I have enjoyed the interaction.
However I would agree that anyone who adheres too closely to any religion in Barbados does portray the separateness of which you speak from mainstream Barbados.
Themis // July 20, 2009 at 10:16 AM
@ John, why do you think they are called “Closed Brethren”? They choose the times and places to integrate. Can a non-member go to that a school?
John // July 20, 2009 at 10:58 AM
Themis // July 20, 2009 at 10:16 am
@ John, why do you think they are called “Closed Brethren”? They choose the times and places to integrate. Can a non-member go to that a school?
+++++++++++++++++++++++++
To an extent, we all choose the place and time to integrate. I have never been to a Calypso Tent or to Spring Garden but that is my choice.
However, Closed, I agree indicates separateness, and as you indicate it is unlikely that a non-member will go to that school but I do not know.
Brethren on the other hand indicates fellowship with others, the opposite.
But the point is that the school did not always exist, it is of modern vintage.
If their children once integrated freely at Government schools in Barbados and now don’t, something must have changed in the past 20 years,
….. either in the Closed Brethren
….. or in the Government Schools,
…. or both.
I remember three differences at school.
Firstly, they did not attend prayers ….. doubt any Moslem or Hindu children do.
Secondly, they did not eat with us. This we figured was strange but it never interfered with the interaction we had.
There was a third way in which they differed.
They did not go into sixth form.
I got the impression they became apprentices with businesses run by their families or other Brethren families and learned how to earn their keep in the world and then started families.
In all other respects they were integrated into the school they attended.
Themis // July 20, 2009 at 2:06 PM
I had one in Upper Arts Sixth with me in the mid 70’s. Nice fellow too. Everyone wondered what he was doing there. Don’t know what has become of him.
waiting impatiently // July 20, 2009 at 4:19 PM
These young girls are just having fun. Not in the classical way, but have you ever heard of anyone condemning Swan Lake? It is the most sensuous ballet piece but it somehow is acceptable to all, I wonder why? Let these young girls have their fun and show their talents too. Can you move like that? I wish I could.
Adrian Hinds // July 20, 2009 at 5:21 PM
@waiting impatiently
Thats an interesting handle, and it’s even more so after reading you views in favour of this video. Google exploited black teens and tell us if such or something similar is what led to your handle.
Sparrow sang something about not have white meat yet. lol! Do they have some sparrows in here? maybe of a different hue?
These girls need to be told that their so called little fun can lead to exploitation later.
victor // July 25, 2009 at 2:44 AM
I say again, Barbados has one of the highest rates of chiId AIDS in the deveIoped worId. And no, those chiIdren were not aII born with it, did not aII contract the disease in utero, they’ve been infected by maIe aduIts, often reIatives. PaedophiIes frequentIy use the excuse that “the chiId wanted sex”. From this video you couId understand why a paedophiIe might reach that concIusion. RN, I agree the whoIe thing is creepy. one couId argue that aII dancing is a form of sexuaI invitation, swan Iake incIuded but it’s not ok for chiIdren to perform an erotic dance when they are not abIe to protect themseIves from the consequences. These are young human beings at schooI, where you Iearn to grow up, stiII in a pIace in Iife when they need to be protected by aduIts, too young to fend for themseIves in this worId. Do we think chiId Iabour is ok? No. RightIy, there are Iaws against it. I’m not taIking about heIping out, I mean expecting a chiId to fend for itseIf in an aduIt worId. That is what happens when a human chiId is sexuaIised too earIy. It does not have the physcaI, emotionaI or mentaI maturity to fend for itseIf in an aduIt worId, or deaI with the consequences, eg chiIdbirth. There are many exampIes, India for instance, where young girIs are married off when 12 or 13 or even younger, get pregnant and die in chiIdbirth because their bodies just cannot cope, not being fuIIy deveIoped. Just because a chiId may show earIy signs of physicaI maturity, having a period or starting a beard, does not mean that chiId is ready to be a mother, or work in a bank, own a gun or support a famiIy.
Marlehole // July 28, 2009 at 11:52 AM
It must be said! to their credit; all but one had the decency to take their shoes off while standing on the desk. Except one!
We have to work on her.
Sargeant // July 28, 2009 at 1:07 PM
I am no fan of Trevor Prescod but since when does a visit to a Gov’t Dept. to inquire about Gov’t support of a day camp constitute “trespassing”?
Looks like the Gov’t is using the Police to harass their political opponents. If so they are embarking on a dangerous journey
Anonymous // August 4, 2009 at 11:39 AM
I currently go to a secondary school, I don’t see anything wrong w/ this video, well a lot worse happens on a day-to-day basis…P.S i don’t go to this school featured in this video