Barbados Underground

A Step Too Far Or Fairness And Equality: Same Sex Partner’s Legal Rights

September 3, 2009 · 80 Comments

Submitted by Yardbroom
Rosi & Kelli

Rosi & Kelli

A release from the Press Association (UK) Monday 31 August 2009, reported that female couples will be able to register both their names on the birth certificate of children conceived through fertility treatment.  Human Fertilisation and Embryology Act 2008. The move will give women in same-sex relationships the same rights as heterosexual parents, to have their names on their children’s birth documents.

“Home Office Minister Lord Brett said the move was a “positive change”.  He explained:  This positive change means that, for the first time, female couples who have a child using fertility treatment have the same rights as their heterosexual counterparts to be shown as parents in the birth registration”.

I have put this submission forward in the interest of balance, so that a section of Barbadian society – though small – know that their concerns, not often addressed in other media in Barbados will be given a fair hearing on Barbados Underground (BU). I also hope the variety of views often expressed on BU are not stymied in this submission and that robustness is evident.  However, that robustness and freedom are tempered by responsibility and reason.

One could argue – perhaps with some justification – that there are not enough same sex female partners – living together – in Barbados for this issue to be of concern here, and even if they were, the cost of fertility treatment and access to it would prevent it becoming of major significance.  However, it could be argued that these debates are taking place in major industrial countries and it serves no purpose not – it does not mean we have to follow – to understand and debate issues which will give us a clearer understanding of our world.

“Same sex marriages are recognized in: “The Netherlands the first country to do so in 2001, Belgium, Canada, South Africa, Spain, Norway, Sweden and five states in the USA.  The majority of European countries recognize Civil Unions or Registered Partnerships as does New Zealand and Uruguay.  Other jurisdictions to the ones previously mentioned in the USA recognize Civil Unions or Domestic Partnerships.” – Wikipedia

The issue of names on birth certificates has become contentious, in Massachusetts – USA – where same sex marriage is legal.  Governor Mitt Romney said “babies born to couples of the same sex should be given amended birth certificates”.  As if to demonstrate how delicate the issue is, supporters of gay marriage say “the governor’s formula is wrong”.  They say “the words “Father” and “Mother” should be removed from birth certificates, and put in their place the terms “Parent A” and “Parent B”.

The supporters of gay marriage and those who agitate for a change.  Have to answer the charge that they always want “more” and they will only be satisfied with an equality, which certification cannot give.  It is often said there is a separate agenda by those who do not want a change in certification and it has nothing to do with the certificates, but more to do with and anti-gay marriage position.

In the UK there has also been opposition to their proposed New Legislation.  Ann Widdecombe a prominent Tory MP criticised the legislation.  She is reported to have said: ” Every child has a right to a father and this bill for the first time deliberately creates a situation where children are born without a father.

“A father plays a unique role in a child’s life.  The effect is quite simple.  You’re going to deprive a child from the outset”. As if to underpin the issue in not on party lines, Geraldine Smith the Labour MP was more succinct she said: ” To have a birth certificate with two mothers and no father is just madness.”

It is understandable that those in a stable same sex relationship have a desire to demonstrate their commitment to that relationship and the child or children being cared for, by having both names on the birth certificate.  However, suppose the child on attaining adulthood has a different outlook – it is possible – and is constantly being embarrassed when asked to produce his/her birth certificate.

If same sex marriage/unions are allowed, is it reasonable to refuse rights accorded to heterosexual couples?  One could easily argue that what they – same sex couples – are asking is completely different.  That is true but the “nature” of their relationship makes that so, it is not wilful intent to defy authority or the norm, they do not exist in a norm as “perceived” by some.

It is also possible that we could be allowing prejudice to determine decision making and that is not in the best interest of a fair and equitable society. It could be that we in Barbados will never have to make those hard decisions, but at least we are adult enough to reflect on them and give those whose opinions about society are diametrically opposed to ours, a fair hearing and an opportunity to advance their views.

Categories: Blogging · Gender · Homosexuality · World News · gay

80 responses so far ↓

  • Bonny Peppa // September 3, 2009 at 8:42 PM

    I am totally against ’same-sex’ marriages. It is a total sham of the institution of marriage. I pity the innocent children in these environments. Isn’t it confusing to them?
    What will they think of next?

    It’s a mad, mad world.

  • BAFBFP // September 3, 2009 at 9:27 PM

    Those two women look like Hilary Clinton and Condolleza Rice.

  • J // September 3, 2009 at 10:44 PM

    “They say “the words “Father” and “Mother” should be removed from birth certificates, and put in their place the terms “Parent A” and “Parent B”.

    And who would be parent A? and who would be parent B? And will parent A be seen as a better parent than parent B?

    If so I wanna be Parent A.

    Leave Mother on the birth certificates.

    Leave Father on the birth certificates.

    But if there are 2 mothers, then put Mother/Mother on the birth certificate.

    And if there are 2 fathers the put Father/Father on the birth certificate.

    In other words put the truth on the birth certificates.

    And don’t shoot the messenger now, but in my 1950’s rural working class village in Barbados there were wickers raising children (and the children turned out real good too) and there were bi-sexuals (woman/man/man) and (man/woman/woman) raising children and those children also turned out well.

    Yes there are a number of responsible Barbadians who were raised by 2 mummies, 1 daddy; and 1 mummy, 2 daddies; or one wicker mummy.

    But old fashioned Bajans knew NOT to discuss “big-people business” with li’l children

    And I am telling the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

    But just watch the people coming on this blog and pretending outrage. Pretending that they grew up in villages where there were only heteosexual married couples.

    I was NEVER so.

  • J // September 3, 2009 at 10:48 PM

    It was NEVER so.

  • J // September 3, 2009 at 10:49 PM

    But hey no kissing in public. We Bajans don’t believe in that, not even if you have been married for 50 years or more.

    Keep ya bedroom business in the bedroom.

  • David // September 3, 2009 at 11:43 PM

    It seems all the psychology books will have to be rewritten i.e. the role of the traditional mother and father.

  • BAFBFP // September 4, 2009 at 12:08 AM

    I would rather a child be raised by two women or two men than a woman or man alone…!

  • victor // September 4, 2009 at 1:26 AM

    J, very sensibIe point of view. Most of us wouId Iove the “ideaI” famiIy but we stiII survive as a race, even without it. What goes on in a “normaI” marriage is often pretty dodgy as can now be seen with DNA testing, where many are found not to have the Dad’s DNA! Group pressure to conform to society’s norm heIps cohesion and a successfuI society but it can get out of hand when non-conformists get persecuted. Iive and Iet Iive and yes, if 2 peopIe who Iove each other commit to raise a baby there wiII be more stabiIity than if just one parent has to cope but we must not Iose sight of the traditionaI famiIy with a Mum and a Dad as what we shouId aim for, to encourage the young. Everyone profits emotionaIIy from having a Dad especiaIIy boys and having an absent baby father’s name on your birth certificate is not a soIution. To see the name of a man on your birth certificate who was never there and did not care enough to stick around, even fathered Iots of other kids may be detrimentaI to your feeIings but at Ieast it can heIp identify potentiaI genetic inherited diseases etc. when you yourseIf decide to have chiIdren of your own, so I think somewhere on the birth certificate shouId incIude who the father or the egg donor was. J, you praise viIIage Iife where extended famiIies take care of progeny which IS great, but this does not extrapoIate into wider society, when famiIy connections dissoIve, often due to iIIegitimacy. So, how to praise and endorse “normaI” famiIy Iife without damning same sex famiIies? That’s our chaIIenge in C21st. Somehow we have to encourage aII committed coupIes by state benefits etc., that they wiII be better off than encouraging random baby creation.

  • Bimbro // September 4, 2009 at 1:53 AM

    Another example of the further undermining of our christian society by the-debauched-left. Our countries r crying-out for a return to sensible-conservatism a la Maggie Thatcher and Ronald Raegan – god rest his soul!!

  • victor // September 4, 2009 at 2:49 AM

    Bimbro, I do get what you are saying about undermining but did you get my point that Govt. has to support the nucIear famiIy? You can say debauched and you are right to say that but how to fix it? That’s why I suggest rewarding those who at Ieast try to make a proper famiIy, instead of just indiscriminate procreation.

  • J // September 4, 2009 at 5:46 AM

    victor wrote “, you praise viIIage Iife where extended famiIies take care of progeny which IS great, but this does not extrapoIate into wider society, when famiIy connections dissoIve, often due to iIIegitimacy.”

    Nowhere in my submission did I praise village life and nowhere did I say that extended family take care (or should take care) of progeny. I am a conservative. I believe that PARENTS should be a child’s PRINCIPAL care givers.

    Family connectons do not “dissolve” due to illegitimacy. Family connections “dissolve” because FATHERS desert their children. When a father decides to desert his child(ren) it is not a one time decision. It is a decicion he makes afresh every morning that he wakes up and DECIDES THAT DAY NOT to give his child its daily bread, or its daily love, or its daily money.

    A father’s decision not to love or provide for his child(ren) is not an accident and it has little to do with female “fooping-around”

  • Bimbro // September 4, 2009 at 6:06 AM

    Victor, I agree with your view re: supporting the family. However, I’m not surprised by govt’s failure to do so as this s a phenomenon which I first encountered years ago when my fiancee and I decided to do the decent thing and got married before having children only then to find out that all the social care (or much of it) was given to the single mothers and not married couples, so its the continuation of a trend which has existed now, for some time! But, by this time, out-of-wedlock relationships seem to be becoming more the norm than within marriage so, I’m not now sure what the solution is. However, I’m convinced that once the left r in power you’ll see further erosion of our cherished values as that seems to be their calling and every perverse little degenerate cause seems to latch on to their coat-tails and end up being pacified by them by the granting of legislation which favours their interests which is why we could benefit from a dose of right-wingism although, recently emerging from just that in Bim, I don’t suppose Bajans would be so keen to re-visit that era, for a while!

  • Bimbro // September 4, 2009 at 6:30 AM

    Victor, on another subject; I just read this and thought I’d ask!!:

    Are the scientific and intellectual brains of our people (Bajans) being fully, discovered, ultilised and exploited or, r going to waste! I’ve had the privilege of meeting one or two truly gifted Barbadians, mathematically and scientifically but, who were engaged in doing ordinary jobs. Is our government truly seeking to discover the talent of our people and utilise it for the true benefit of Bim?!!

    http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-News/Optical-Quantum-Chip-Using-Light-Particles-Tested—Scientists-Hail-A-New-Era-For-Computing/Article/200909115374541?lpos=UK_News_Second_Home_Page_Article_Teaser_Region_2&lid=ARTICLE_15374541_Optical_Quantum_Chip_Using_Light_Particles_Tested_-_Scientists_Hail_A_New_Era_For_Computing

  • Bimbro // September 4, 2009 at 6:42 AM

    Then, on the other hand, u get *hit-bags like this one, probably from a lifetime’s excessive fondness of ganga who commit crimes like this!! Don’t ask me where he’s from! U know me and them!! ‘Cept to say that, given the power, I’d be with a rope swinging in my hand and, smile on my face, just waiting to brek he neck!! Bring back the death penalty!!

    http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-News/Blunders-Left-Convicted-Murderer-Peter-Bryan-Free-To-Kill-Again-Ate-Brain-Of-One-Victim/Article/200909115374467?lpos=UK_News_News_Your_Way_Region_8&lid=NewsYourWay_ARTICLE_15374467_Blunders_Left_Convicted_Murderer_Peter_Bryan_Free_To_Kill_Again%2C_Ate_Brain_Of_One_Victim

  • Bonny Peppa // September 4, 2009 at 6:46 AM

    J
    MOTHERS desert their children too. Not only the FATHERS.

    The last time I checked, the nuclear family is mother, father, offspring. I cud be wrong.

    I have a wikka in my siblings and she has children and to this day, though grown now, still today they are affected by her being a shim. It is very embarassing for them to even discuss it man. And their peers, especiallly the boys, tease them relentlessly about it.

    Same sex marriage my big toe. No one can convince me enough that it is cool.It is blasphemous in my opinion.

  • Anon // September 4, 2009 at 7:57 AM

    OFF TOPIC

    DAVID
    (1)
    Say it isn’t so.

    Hypocritical Guyana asks 50 “visitors” to leave because they overstayed their time.

    Is this not the same guyana whose government was highly critical of Barbados and Barbadians for asking guyanese “visitors” to leave for overstaying their time.

    Where is Ricky Signh, Compton Bourne, Sonny Ramphal, Norma Faria, The Nation newspaper, Annalee Davis, Peter Wickham when you need them?

    (2)
    I am still waiting to hear Mathew Farley’s take on our new rasta Senator.

    Is his hairstyle ok for the senate, Mathew?

    Don’t keep too long with your statement.

  • Bimbro // September 4, 2009 at 8:45 AM

    BAFBFP // September 4, 2009 at 12:08 AM

    I would rather a child be raised by two women or two men than a woman or man alone…!

    ************

    BAF, can’t believe u said dat man! A perversion of the right way, if ever there was one! Give me a single parent in preference. The rest I’ll learn for myself, don’t want nuh she-she’s cluttering-up my brain wid foolishness!!

    Vic, the other tranche of this discussion concerns the intrinsic weakness of democracy which, although a wonderful system, makes it so vulnerable to being corrupted which will probably, ultimately, lead to all our doom!! Can’t expand upon this now! Bajans ent ready for it and would only attract too much vitriole. However, does n’t prove it’s untrue!!

  • J // September 4, 2009 at 8:58 AM

    Bonny Peppa wrote “MOTHERS desert their children too. Not only the FATHERS.”

    True and I never said otherwise, but the truth is that fathers are more likely to desert than mothers. If you have other evidence bring it here.

    Bonny Peppa wrote “I have a wikka in my siblings and she has children and to this day, though grown now, still today they are affected by her being a shim. And their peers, especiallly the boys, tease them relentlessly about it.”

    Maybe it is not your sister’s homosexuality that has harmed her children, maybe it is the relentless teasing. May I ask why YOU, the parents, and teachers of the relentless teasers did not disipline them?

    I am outraged to hear that any child is relentless teased about anything while the elders stand idly by.

    Bonny Peppa write “It is very embarassing for them to even discuss it man. ”

    A child even an adult child has no business discussing their parent’s sexuality. Do you think that I ever discussed my parent’s sexuality, or that I ever discussed my sexuality with my parents (or with my children)

    Sexual matters should be discussed ONLY with your partner or your physician. Anything else is intrusive.

    We are too in love with too much damn openess nowadays.

  • J // September 4, 2009 at 9:03 AM

    victor wrote “but did you get my point that Govt. has to support the nucIear famiIy? ”

    When you say support victor do you mean financial support?

    And is is ok by you (and by heterosexual families) for government to take tax money from homosexuals and use it to support heterosexual families, even while denying homosexual families that same support?

  • J // September 4, 2009 at 9:10 AM

    Anon asked “I am still waiting to hear Mathew Farley’s take on our new rasta Senator.”

    Matthew Farley will not criticize Senator Arthur Holder. The new Senator has a bachelor’s degree in business, a master’s
    degree in social work (yes from a highly regarded American university) and a law degree.

    In Barbados we only PUBLICLY CHASTISE those whom we regard as our INFERIORS.

    On an educational level Senator Holder is definitely Matthew Farley’s superior.

    So no there will be no public chastisement.

  • Pablo (yo) // September 4, 2009 at 9:16 AM

    Great blog!!
    If you like, come back and visit mine: http://albumdeestampillas.blogspot.com

    Thanks,
    Pablo from Argentina

  • zion1971 // September 4, 2009 at 10:50 AM

    I am happy that at my age I wont be around long enough to witness the further moral degeneracy (sic) that is brewing on the horizon for future generation.Wether we want to believe it or not the society we live in today is soddom and gomarrah. The homosexual lifestyle that has be forced upon us as an alternative to the traditonal family structure are not only having the scholars scrambling to redefine the sacred institution and function of the family as we know it for the last 2000 years, but also spun off a cottage industry at some Ivy league universities confering academic chairs and scholarship in this area. In other words Homosexuality or “queer science” is now a fully credentialised field worthy of rigorous academic study.

    A few weks ago the Harvard Crimson publication was advertising for a Professor of “Homosexuality and queerness” to fill a newly created chair in the department of behaioural science. I was Laughing my ass of on this one. The irony of all this according to the author was that Harvard was cutting back and laying off staff because of the recession but yet could find fund to provide for this new chair.

    Wake up people the agenda of these people is not gonna just stop here. They wanna take over.Next thing you know is that they will be demanding quotas and affirmative-like action in all facets of life(jobs, housing, education, etc).Even the churches are not safe from their mission.

    CORRECTION: The above article mention Mitt Romney has governor of Massachuset.Mr Romney was a former Governor.Present Governor is Patrick Duval

  • Adrian Hinds // September 4, 2009 at 11:46 AM

    I look forward to the day that Mia Mottley can without shame or redicule, look at a single individual, and say “my family”, instead of a sea of redshirt clad blp supporters members.

  • piss at J // September 4, 2009 at 1:52 PM

    J,

    Are you for real what do you call wanting every one to know that you are gay and are in a same sex marriage, what is that call I know and all opposed know but you as you do not see it or call it being to OPEN to discuss and share with the public, so stop talking through your mouth and rear end at the same time.

  • Pat // September 4, 2009 at 1:56 PM

    BAFBFP // September 4, 2009 at 12:08 AM

    I would rather a child be raised by two women or two men than a woman or man alone…!
    ****************************

    I agree with you on that score. Your nemesis was raised by two women from about age 7 or 8. We lil children never discussed it and we treated him and his sibling as though it was normal. I never knew what wickers did in bed until he told us after spying on them. Give the lad a break.

    @J:

    We also had bullers in our little rural village. The same thing except that we gave them nick names like ‘Pipeman’, Dorothy, etc. In fact, the Pipeman was bi. There were two other single ladies people speculated were wickers, but no proof. The pair I mentioned to BAFBFP was white.

    I am not against gays nor gay marriage. The problem is with Bajan society. It is small and closed. In addition the Church has Bajans believing in the Bible and fire and brimstone. Bajans will be the last outpost to accept changes in society- to accept gays as ordinary human beings with different sexual proclavities.

    I grew up learning to live and let live and I will continue to live and let live. As I said before on a previous thread, there is one in every family, even mine.

  • Pat // September 4, 2009 at 2:04 PM

    zion1971 // September 4, 2009 at 10:50 AM

    …………..
    Even the churches are not safe from their mission.
    ***********************************

    ha ha ha! Where have you been? The Church is a leader in homosexuality – The Roman Catholic Church. Did you know that Michelangelo was the bigest buller in Rome? How do you think he got all those commissions from el pape himself.

    Have you not been reading the current history of the Catholic Church? All across the world homosexuality and paedophilia. I say, come out in the open, do it with consenting adults and leave parents lil boys alone.

  • Pat // September 4, 2009 at 2:26 PM

    J // September 4, 2009 at 8:58 AM

    Good post J. Loved it.

  • Pat // September 4, 2009 at 2:52 PM

    Pablo (yo) // September 4, 2009 at 9:16 AM

    Great blog!!
    If you like, come back and visit mine: http://albumdeestampillas.blogspot.com

    Thanks,
    Pablo from Argentina
    ***************************

    Thanks for visiting our blog. I visited yours as invited. However, my spanish is not as good as it was and my dictionary was not at hand.

    Suffice it to say, I am an amateur stamp collector and enjoyed viewing those on your blog. I have an extensive collection of Chilean stamps dating back to the late 1800’s.

    Come back any time.

    Pat.

  • Bonny Peppa // September 4, 2009 at 4:14 PM

    J
    Where did I mention anything about a classroom setting? My nephews n nieces were the laughing stock of their peers long after their school days ended.
    What puzzles me is that you’re a wikka but still dealing wid men and getting pregnant? Come on man, you choose that lifestyle, leave the men alone. And for heaven’s sake leave the innocent childen out of the mess.

    I have no quarrel with anyone’s sexual preference but same sex marriage is taking it too far.Just my take on it.

    My wikkin sibling was and always will be considered an outcast by the other siblings. I was a bit more tolerant but always felt a bit embarrassed to be seen in public together for fear of being labelled as ‘one a dem’. We don’t look related. She’s very fair and I am a few tones down. She was very open in her affairs with these women too in her children’s presence. Probably thought they would remain small.

    piss at J,
    Luv de name but you mean at J or on J.

  • Bonny Peppa // September 4, 2009 at 4:19 PM

    BAFBFP
    I still trying ta see which whun look like Condoleeza. I even put on my specs an can mek out which whun. De one ta de leff? Ok.

  • Pat // September 4, 2009 at 6:21 PM

    @ Bonny Peppa

    Why would you and your neices and nephews be embarrassed by your sister. You did and are doing nothing wrong, why the guilt?

    Those people who teased and still tease the nephews and nieces are ignorant. The shame is on them for being so small minded and not on you and your family.

    I am surprised that you would be ashamed to walk with your own sister. It seems we poor folk in the back of beyond St. Joseph are more tolerant by far.

    I have seen two men or two women rent bayhouses for afternoon liaisons. I have also seen respectable married men with their mistresses do the same thing. It pained me that we were warned by the adults to mind our business and not to tell our summertime friends – the children.

    This has been going on for many, many years. I was a kid then and am now in my 60’s. That is more than 50+ years. It aint new in Bim. Both ethnicities do it.

  • Bonny Peppa // September 4, 2009 at 7:12 PM

    Pat.
    Wikkas n bullas are not accepted in society, just like a woman having two or more men is not accepted. I won’t want to be labelled as ‘one a dem’. It is more acceptable for a man to have two or more women in the society that we live in. Some behavioral practises are scoffed upon by the society. Just like I won’t got shopping with a known cleptomaniac. What do they say about birds of a feather? I appreciate her as a family member but do not embrace her lifestyle.
    Because it has been happening in Bim and both ethnicities practise it, don’t mean that Bonny is to embrace it. Not me.
    Why would we be embarrassed you ask? Because it is not right in our sight and should not be condoned. It makes us feel uneasy.
    The same way she is free to practise her lifestyle, those who jeer are free to too.
    I would prefer to be labelled a ‘mistress’ than a wikka. The possibility exist that I might become ‘wife’ instead of ‘mistress’ but a wikka would never be the ‘man’ she longs to be.
    I’m not socializing with no wikkas or bullas at all Pat, be it my sista or cousin. I have to feel comfy in my arena.

  • Bonny Peppa // September 4, 2009 at 7:15 PM

    sorry, kleptomaniac. (thief)

  • Pat // September 4, 2009 at 10:16 PM

    @ Bonny Peppa

    You may be surprised. You may work and socialize with them all like now and dont know it. Not many in Bim are out of the closet.

    In my opinion, there are many hysbands and wives who do the same things as wikkas and bullas. That, my friend, is the hypocracy in Bajan society. I had a very good colleague and gay friend that I could call on at any time to fix my car, paint my windows, etc. I also had two men living just down the street from me as well. Everyone knew that one left his wife for the other, but, no one cared. It was none of our business.

    I used to be given plants by two gay Jews who had a plot at the allotment- the nicest, friendliest and kindest people one could hope to meet. Look at all the possibilities you are missing out on. Lasting friendships and great loyalty.

    One of the biggest wikkas here in this town is a Bajan. I found out recently that it was she, who left the organist at our church (in Bim) at the altar. She actually went to the church, looked at the intended husband and walked out. She said that was the last time she saw him.

    I think, in all honesty, she did the man a big favour. I am sure the little embarassment he may have suffered was a lot less than a lifetime of misery married to a wikka.

  • Bonny Peppa // September 4, 2009 at 10:35 PM

    Pat
    Ya got ma laffing.
    I can’t worry about what I don’t know about. So if I work alongside some and don’t know, it can’t be a worry of mine.
    As long as I know that you’re a wikka, I don’t want you helping me with no chores whatsoever. She might see it as an open invitement to come on to me. To be honest with you, I have nothing against them as long as they stay their distance from me.
    I can’t for the life of me fathom the thought of a woman ‘fondling ‘ me. Just the thought of it is making my stomach curdle. I want to pukeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

    Keep wunna plants, keep wunna flowers, keep wunna friendship, keep wunna loyalty and keep wunna distance too.

    A lot of them are still in the closet because it is not sociallly accepted here, at least not yet.
    Some gays n’lesbians group was formed some time back but haven’t heard anything of it recently. Not sure what they were trying to achieve.

    No bosey.

  • J // September 4, 2009 at 11:07 PM

    Bonny Peppa wrote “just like a woman having two or more men is not accepted.”

    You mean two at the same time or one after the other?

  • ROK // September 4, 2009 at 11:10 PM

    “It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.”
    Jiddu Krisnamurti

  • Anonymous // September 4, 2009 at 11:22 PM

    Romans 1:18-32 (New International Version)
    God’s Wrath Against Mankind
    18The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.
    21For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.
    24Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.
    26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.
    28Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. 29They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

  • victor // September 4, 2009 at 11:52 PM

    J, Sorry if I misunderstood that you praised the idea of the “viIIage famiIy” but at Ieast the extended or viIIage famiIy is abIe to take more care of offspring than a Ione parent under extenuated circumstances in an aIien society; you must agree when contrasting beIeaguered one parents in Prospects etc. to kids growing up with reIatives around them, where they find emotionaI, roIe modeI and financiaI babysitting etc. support. No, I don’t expect homosexuaIs to pay for nucIear famiIies via govt. support. HomosexuaIs are in a vast minority in the parent area yet they pay their taxes which go to support the education of other peopIe’s chiIdren, as do aII working singIe peopIe. Same sex famiIies are a modern phenomenon, untested yet and the proven success rate so far goes to nucIear famiIies. We have not had enough time to judge how same sex famiIies with chiIdren wiII Iast. So at the moment, yes, via tax concessions etc. I think that those who have committed to a heterosexuaI marriage in a society which is based on a set of vaIues which broadIy incorporates the nucIear famiIy, shouId get those concessions and our taxes in order to strengthen our society. In time, same sex famiIies are getting the same benefits so caIm down. I think we are aII in agreement here that runaway Dads and girIs who have not thought it through are the probIem. on the other hand, Barbados has I think 5 femaIes to every maIe so even in an ideaIistic worId there are not enough husbands to go round. Add to that the men who Ieave for away and those who choose foreign women and you are Ieft with a hefty percentage of Bajan women who wouId dearIy wish to be a mother yet can onIy resort to somebody eIse’s husband to get pregnant or a runaway Dad or just not have a chiId or famiIy of their own. It’s a reaIity which has to be faced. The viIIage famiIy seems more viabIe than any State-supported pIan, don’t you think? The idea of adopting chiIdren via an agency is not popuIar in Barbados, have you noticed? one has to wonder why on earth not? It’s an anathema to most Bajans. At the end of the day same sex marriages are the ideaI here even though many chiIdren on this isIand are not born in them. Trying to get the pubIic to accept same sex famiIies here wiII take a Iong time whiIst peopIe have to deaI with simpIe demographic statististics yet adhere as a group to Christian vaIues, vaIues which for the time being are the onIy thing hoIding the society together.

  • victor // September 4, 2009 at 11:56 PM

    Sorry I meant heterosexuaI marriages are the ideaI here! oops Dr Freud.

  • freewilly // September 5, 2009 at 6:37 AM

    Wake up people wake up,the powers that be ..meaning the scum Rothschild,Rockerfeller and the other fag boys along with the elite families worldwide will push this homosexual agenda on us now more than ever..why you ask?..because they want us to stop breeding..two men or two women cannot reproduce..depopulation control at its finest..its called the feminization of men and the lesbianization of women..ask Hopi.

  • freewilly // September 5, 2009 at 6:47 AM

    http://www.henrymakow.com/the_real_patriarchy_is_plutocr.html
    http://www.henrymakow.com/001421.html
    http://www.henrymakow.com/070502.html
    Here you go.

  • Anon // September 5, 2009 at 8:03 AM

    J, your surprise me – I agree with you.

    Civilization and society moves on – otherwise, we would all probably be the slaves that the Old Testament endorsed.

    As Pat rightly pointed out, the Catholic church – and I mean the Anglo Catholic church as well – are the biggest haven for bullers to be found outside of the gay villages in places like Toronto and Montreal. However, most (meaning 99.9999%) of the homosexuals I know would have no interest in interfering with children and therein lies the difference between homosexual enclaves that exist in cities and the enclave that exists in religeous organizations. The Roman Catholic church has paid out BILLIONS in damages and out-of-court settlements because of child molestation. So, I have to laugh when someone tries to put him/her self into the mind of the Almighty when the biggest single source of child molestation (boys and girls) is as a result of libidinous, pedophile priests.

    Live and let live. It isn’t harming you what two consenting adults do in the privacy of their own bedrooms – what is harming you is when you take your child to the church for religeous instruction on how to hate homosexuals, just like you do, and instead their ‘instructor’ gives them practical experience.

  • Bimbro // September 5, 2009 at 9:12 AM

    freewilly, perhaps, I’m simple-minded but, I thought business people would b more interested in expanding the population to have more customers to sell their goods to! Does that theory make sense to u, because, if it does, it does n’t say much for your theory does it!!

  • Bonny Peppa // September 5, 2009 at 9:12 AM

    Anon
    ‘Live and let live. It isn’t harming………..

    Who’s talking about what they do in their bedrooms? We’re addressing the legalisation of same-sex marriage.
    Not the same thing.
    Am I missing something or wah?

  • Terence M. Blackett // September 5, 2009 at 12:41 PM

    C’mon folks – traditional marriage has been the “covenant” of passage where a man and a woman took “vows” and entered the “holy” estate of matrimony…

    In the 21st century, who holds the keys of hell (sorry, marriage)?

    It is the State.

    “In most modern nations, government holds those keys. Even if people have been married by their church or religious group, they are not married in the sense that really counts for social and political purposes unless they have been granted a marriage license by the state.” (Martha Nussbaum)

    The sociology of “marriage” is as complex as the rudiments of rocket or interplanetary science.

    Marriage today means different things to different groups of people.

    Even religious institutions have their own internal dissension and discord over the matter.

    For me as an individual – my pretext for formulating a proper understanding of marriage hinges on the Biblical understanding of what God intended for marriage to be for all mankind.

    We can disagree over the semantics but I am clear on that one thing…

  • ROK // September 5, 2009 at 1:00 PM

    @Terence M. Blackett

    “marriage hinges on the Biblical understanding of what God intended for marriage to be for all mankind.”

    GOD IS THE STATE!

    Marriage is when two people of the opposite sexes commit themselves to each other. Any other than that are trappings and offer nothing to the sanctimony of the marriage. The other things offer legality and religious authenticity.

    The marriage itself is made sacred by the two people and no external forces. God as you know it is not the Creator; just another kind of Massa.

  • Terence M. Blackett // September 5, 2009 at 3:29 PM

    Thank you ROK…

    I do NOT share your sentiments but with all due respect, marriage is more than the trappings of sociological tenets espoused willy-nilly by many whose social agenda is the redefinition of spiritual landmarks established before any of us were even born.

    Whatever our conceptions of God, CHRIST* or the teachings of Scripture – some things remain absolute, irrevocable and forever settled.

    Man choose their path and destiny with the absolute right to obey or disobey timeless laws which will not change though the heavens may fall.

    Our conjecture, superfluity or nonchalance will do precious little to change what has already been set in motion.

    Be blessed my bruv…

  • ROK // September 5, 2009 at 5:37 PM

    @Terrence M. Blackette
    “Our conjecture, superfluity or nonchalance will do precious little to change what has already been set in motion.”

    Is that so? Conjecture? Should I take that as an insult? Superfluous? Not understanding that one… but let me say as you said, it’s all based on lies and deceit.

  • Bonny Peppa // September 5, 2009 at 10:40 PM

    J
    Whether it be two at a time or one shortly after the other, the reaction from society is almost the same. You would hear things like, ’she like she chan keep a man or she is change she men sa quick doe”. And in the case of gotting two or more men at the same time, Sus Crois. Ya would hear, ’she is a real stinking, wutless bitch/whore hear? And if she has girl children, ya would also hear, ‘ she daughtas gun be wutless just like she, caus de apple doan fall too far from de tree.
    I lie J? Tell de trute, doan be dangrus.

    ROK,
    When I get dis divorce in order an ask for your hand in marriage, you could gimme talk an you would see.
    smoochhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

    Terence,
    Nite, nite hunny. Long time no see. Was beginnin to give up pun you.

  • J // September 5, 2009 at 11:48 PM

    victor wrote on September 4th at 11:52 p.m.

    “Barbados has I think 5 femaIes to every maIe ”

    No victor.

    This is NOT true.

    This is a foolish lie perpetuated by promiscuous Bajan men who use it as an excuse for their womanizing.

    Tell the truth now, Barbados has about 270,000 people.

    Do you really believe that Barbados has 45,000 men and 225,000 women?

    And if this is so; since Barbados is NOT at war can you tell me who has “killed” off the “missing” 180,000 men? And how come nobody noticed?

    In Barbados as is the rest of the world SLIGHTLY more boys are born than girls.

    By early adulthood the numbers are about even, because boys are the fragile sex and are SLIGHTLY more likely to die in infancy and childhood than are girls.

    If you doubt me go to any newspaper library and look at the numbers of boys and the numbers of girls who take the 11+ each year. You will notice that the numbers are about even. How then can it happen between 11 and 16 (the age on consent) that the numbers can become skewed so that there are 5 females to every male.

    Do you really believe that somebody is killing off huge numbers of our young men between the age of 11 and 16?

    If a good number of men seem to believe the 5 women to every man myth it is because they are foolish enough to believe that each of THEIR women has only them.

    In fact Bajan women are just as promiscuous as Bajan men.

    Because in order for a heterosexual man to be promiscuous he has to have promiscuous women to help him.

    But for the most part women are sensible enough NOT to talk about their promiscuity.

  • Miss Lou // September 6, 2009 at 7:52 AM

    Bonny Peppa. Don’t you ever get tired of being such a mindless bigot? You are indeed the loudest empty vessel ever to slither across creation. I’m tired just reading your tripe!

  • Terence M. Blackett // September 6, 2009 at 8:23 AM

    My dear Bruv ROK…

    I have neither the time or the inclination to insinuate, gesticulate or imply INSULT* especially to folks who I do not know or may never know on a personal level…

    We can split hairs over semantics all day long as well as go at eachother with sabers drawn in a swashbuckling effort to prove who is more fastidious in their intellectual prowess when drumming on a point of contention…

    All these things I am sure has their respective place – needless to say, I am not in the slightest enamored to entertain any such bravado…

    Maybe when I was younger… But age catches up with us and it brings with it wisdom…

    So my dear Bruv, rest assured that you and I (though hidden in the mist of primordial cyberspace) are still COOL…

    God bless – onward and upward!!!

  • Terence M. Blackett // September 6, 2009 at 8:28 AM

    @BONNY PAPPA…

    Thanks BABE* for the holla’…

    You are such a JOY* to read…

    And quite “arrapante” according to my Italian family…LOL

    Take care Sweet Pea…

    Be Blessed…

  • ROK // September 6, 2009 at 9:40 AM

    @Terrence M. Blackette

    There was no intention to insult you and if I carelessly did so, I humbly apologise.

    You’re right about the fact that I am still cool.

  • ROK // September 6, 2009 at 9:42 AM

    Bonny

    Who is this Miss Lou? Sounds like she come to give you competition. Wonder if she of Lickmout fame?

  • David // September 6, 2009 at 9:46 AM

    @Miss Lou

    If you see flawed arguments the thing to do is to challenge those arguments in a cogent manner.

  • Bonny Peppa // September 6, 2009 at 3:28 PM

    J,
    I agree wid you bout dis ratio of women to men. Hogwash. Some women doan like man and some a dem is wikkas so it should balance back out. I ‘m not too sure bout de infant boys death ratio as opposed to infant girls so left dat as is.

    Ms. Lou,
    If I mashing you corns because I say I doan wikk, dah is your problem. Now do me a favour, gather all de females in you household including yaself and stand infront a mirror. You never thought that so many mindless bigots could be in de same place at de same time nah? It happens. Sad but so true. Now move along nicely Piss-pot.
    I trying to behave today Sundee. Sa far sa good.

    Terence M Blackette
    Wait, yesterday I read that you are Jewish now today you are Italian? Which which is which? You trying ta trick me or wah? I luv Italian men doe, they’re said to be more romanti-que. You’re Italian, right? Ya teasa. Luv ya.

    ROK,
    I doan kno why de whores doan leff me an leh me live to love you. Dem jellus??
    smoochesssssssssssssss

  • victor // September 7, 2009 at 1:12 AM

    J, I got my information about ratios of men to women from some govt handout forget what. Sorry if it is wrong, wiII investigate further. If it IS wrong I wiII have to change my views!

  • victor // September 7, 2009 at 1:43 AM

    J you are right, just did a quick googIe and as far as I can make out there are onIy about 5-6% more femaIes than maIes at birth in Barbados but my info was not from govt. websites but UN, etc. Not sure how accurate this is nor how ratio changes in oIder age groups. There are indications that more boys than girIs start schooI compared to birth rate though. Might be wrong, internet is so unreIiabIe as a source of info.

  • Terence M. Blackett // September 7, 2009 at 7:38 AM

    @BONNY PEPPA

    “Wait, yesterday I read that you are Jewish now today you are Italian? Which which is which? You trying ta trick me or wah? I luv Italian men doe, they’re said to be more romanti-que. You’re Italian, right? Ya teasa. Luv ya.”

    Well darlin’ based on my DNA (DAMN NASTY ANCESTORS)* – sorry I shouldn’t say that should I, “it not nice is it?” LOL

    On a more serious note, my great grand-mum was Portuguese Jew married to a direct descendant of a slave from the Gold Coast of Africa…

    So that is the Jewish link…

    As for the Italian connection – my brother Earl is married to a beautiful Italian girl and they both live across the pond in Italy…

    On a final note, would you and ROK* my controversial brotha’ PLEASE try to NOT* add an “E”* to my surname…

    In the event of an accident (God forbid*) making an insurance claim could prove illusive as the name may NOT* match the individual in question… (smile)

    Had the same issue recently with the airline check-in agent as she mis-spelt and I had to tell her to pls make the necessary amendment (just in case)…

    I LUV U 2 and I think u r wonderful…

    Be blessed darlin’….

  • Bonny Peppa // September 9, 2009 at 5:46 PM

    Terence M B,
    I’m blushing. Oh dearrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. I don’t know about ROK but my reason for putting an extra ‘E’ to your surname is because I think you’re ebullient,educative,eloquent,enchanting,enthralling, enterprising and Entelligent.
    Can we Elope?
    Enteresting.

  • Terence M. Blackett // September 9, 2009 at 6:41 PM

    @ BONNY PEPPA – September 9, 2009 at 5:46 PM

    Terence M B,
    I’m blushing. Oh dearrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. I don’t know about ROK but my reason for putting an extra ‘E’ to your surname is because I think you’re ebullient,educative,eloquent,enchanting,enthralling, enterprising and Entelligent.
    Can we Elope?
    Enteresting.

    BABY GIRL – NO ONE ON BU WANT NOTHIN’ WITH YOU!!!

    HAMMER said – “can’t touch this”…

    No truer words were spoken…

    Listen Babe, I want your email address…

    Go to my website:
    http://dreamstarimportexportagents.com
    and send me your personal details…

    I want to share some “stuff” offline with you -

    LUV

    Terence*

  • Pat // September 9, 2009 at 8:32 PM

    @ Bonny Peppa, ROK, Terrence Blackett:

    What is with the soppy stuff? You behaving like teenagers, lol!

    No, no, no, muh aint jealous.

  • Avatar Gurl // September 9, 2009 at 8:57 PM

    Well, Bonny Peppa…

    You say you would rather be known as a “mistress” than as a “wikka.”

    Truth be told, I wouldn’t like to be known as either!

    The mistress HARDLY ever gets to be a “wife.”.

    A lot of people mistake me for a wikka.

    However, there are only 2 women that I would sleep with..their names are “Myself” and “Me!”

    I’d rather play with myself than be promiscuous with anyone (man OR woman) and get an STD!

    At least with me, I won’t get pregnant, and I won’t get AIDS or anything else!

    God bless my fingers!

  • Bonny Peppa // September 9, 2009 at 11:50 PM

    Terence MB
    A Rodrigo de Caribe (a nudist) wants my email address, ROK is awaiting my hand in marriage, Mash Up can’t wait to get his hands on me, Negroman loves me to death, Scout adoressssssss me,Dr. Porgie wants to administer some TLC personally, Yardbroom wants to sweep me offa me feet, BAFBFP is infatuated with me, Technician has proposed to me and now you are asking for my email address too.
    In the meantime, my main ’squeeze’,Bimbro is there armed with his rusty, old saw-off shotgun to do damage. Anything to protect his ‘luv’.

    Soon, the blogmaster is going to put a ban on me for attempting to solicit-on-line via BU.

    I will flee for my life Terence dawlin.

    Pat,
    I’m a teenager at heart. ‘Cuse me pleez. Bimbro said something last week about some sexy J/can gal he had a crush on and she told him that age is just a number. I forgot to mention to him that my telephone number is just a number too. Just a number. :)

    Avatar gurl,
    Remember, I said what I,ME, would prefer to be, not what you prefer. Aight?
    And yes, God bless your fingers and also sex toys, don’t forget that one. No harm done my Boo.
    Why are you mistaken for a wikka? You wear baggy shirts, pants and cap peak behind? Ya betta be careful chile or ya mite get ‘tek’ fa tru. Watcha.

  • Terence M. Blackett // September 10, 2009 at 5:12 AM

    BONNY PEPPA – September 9, 2009 at 11:50 PM

    Terence MB
    A Rodrigo de Caribe (a nudist) wants my email address …..I will flee for my life Terence dawlin.

    I am (LMAOS)…

    Hiding behind the acronym BP – I am beginning to think you are either my lil’ sis Alison who works for RBC Corporate or a modern day carbon copy version of Harriet Tubman…

    No one else I know has the “coglione” (Italian for “balls” or as we say in Britain – “the bollocks”) – or the mental or emotional veracity I have seen displayed in the temperament of one little woman…

    Good luck to the other suitors who would like to woo the socks (maybe not be the correct apparel) off of you my dearest one, but my inclinations are of a much more fortuitous yet somber nature…

    Your depth of ability as a formidable Black princess only attest to my ongoing arguments as to the power we hold as a people, as a nation and as a race…

    The sad irony is however, the numbers are few and too far between…

    By the way my peach, what is a “A Rodrigo de Caribe (a nudist) ?” LOL

    Much LUV…
    (I am still laughing my arse* off seriously)

  • Terence M. Blackett // September 10, 2009 at 5:22 AM

    @Pat – September 9, 2009 at 8:32 PM

    @ Bonny Peppa, ROK, Terrence Blackett:

    What is with the soppy stuff? You behaving like teenagers, lol!

    You are so right Pat – but you know what, thank God for DAVID & BU Family…

    After a long day or night depending on which hemispheric meridian time warp you sadly get caught up in – it’s good to know after a 12 or 16 hour “SLOG” dealing with all kinds of “nutters”, ego-maniacs, demi-gods and the rest of the “bloody” lot – ain’t it good to kick back and relax with another group of folks who remind you of those schooldays in the playground, playing cricket, football or pitching marbles…

    But then, most of us good folks just too grown up to remember younger days when life was not as serious as it is today…

  • Bonny Peppa // September 10, 2009 at 2:51 PM

    Terence MB
    Sorry my sponge-cake. It should read ‘A fella named Rodrigo de Caribe (nudist).
    You know what a nudist is Saint Peter alias Terence MB? (teehee)

  • Terence M. Blackett // September 11, 2009 at 7:18 AM

    @BONNY PEPPA
    “You know what a nudist is Saint Peter alias Terence MB?”

    THANKS SO MUCH SWEET PEA…

    By the way, are there any “nudist” beaches in BIM?

    Or we haven’t got a raunchy or as hedonistic as Jamaica…

    Loads of LUV*

    T*

  • Bonny Peppa // September 12, 2009 at 7:23 PM

    Terence MB
    Hell no. No nudist beaches or camps here. Don’t forget we’re more sanctimonious than the Pope or Mother Theresa.
    And then again, if some were here you would’ve never gotten the chance to meet Bonny. Because ya see me, every ounce of my spare time would be spent perpetually perched on a limb in the nearest tree, armed with my binoculars and just takin in de ‘views’. They say that ‘ an eyeful isn’t a belly full’. Who cares about food with this sort of ‘food’ is everywhere in sight? Stupseeeeeeee.
    Lord, look at he, look, my Godddddddddddddddddddddddd.(fantasizing a’reddy)

  • Terence M. Blackett // September 13, 2009 at 7:36 AM

    @BONNY PEPPA

    You are a hard act to follow. I’m serious!!!

    The imagery and words you come up with is mind altering, mind-blowing, totally of the stratosphere kinda’ hurt-ma-belly with laughter STUFF*…

    You could have an awesome career as a screen writer, novelist, stand-up comic, TV character or just simply in some form entertainment where you can bring “joy” to other people…

    You are an awesome piece of “work” as well as a great piece of eye candy!!!

    Sending you much LUV* on this quiet Sunday morning – even if BIMBRO, ROK and the rest of ‘em pissed off…

  • Bonny Peppa // September 13, 2009 at 3:40 PM

    Terence MB
    I do have an awesome form of entertainment where I do bring ‘joy’ to other people. :)
    That’s anotha subject for anotha day.
    Today is Holy Sundee. Na smut today.
    Aighttttttttttttttttttt?

  • **Adviser to the President** // September 13, 2009 at 3:53 PM

    What is going on here ?

  • Bonny Peppa // September 13, 2009 at 6:41 PM

    You need to elevate your perverted mind out of the trash can.
    Today is holy Sundee.

    Aightttttttttttttt, President.

  • Wow // September 13, 2009 at 7:50 PM

    I’ve been reading through the comments, and frankly am both amazed and appalled by the extent of the ignorance on display here. I understand their is some apprehension regarding homosexuals – the idea does not appeal to us as heterosexuals, but this in and of itself does not give us the right to condemn it. May I remind you all that not so long ago, whites regarded blacks in much the same way as you all are regarding homosexuals now – with fear and disdain stemming primarily from misunderstanding. And yes, just as many of you are doing now, they turned to the bible to justify their fears. I respect the bible and think that it is an excellent tool in finding guidance in this life, but the fact is that over its lengthy existence it has seen so many revisions and alterations that to use it to levy and argument against homosexuality in 2009 is ridiculous. After all, does Leviticus not invite us to beat our slaves but only within reason? Is this word to be followed because it appears in the bible? Think people. God gave you brains, use them. We are made in his image – white, black, gay, straight, man, woman. We are ALL his children, and ALL deserving of his love.

  • Pat // September 14, 2009 at 9:46 PM

    @ Wow,

    Throw out the Bible and become a free spirit like me. That book is not relevant to anyone or anything.

    Dont castigate the people who ‘tolerate but dont accept’. It has been ever so in Barbados. Homosexuality in Barbados has been an open secret for generations. I knew of and about it as a young girl, even though it was not discussed publicly.

    At least they are not gay bashing and killing suspects as in other countries, even our Caribbean.

  • Bonny Peppa // September 15, 2009 at 8:58 AM

    Pat,
    My hunny-suckle.
    Ya in lie.
    Ya got ma cryin doe. Ya tell Wow ta thra out de bible. You mite hol’ sum licks fa dah statement but if dah is how you feel ’bout um, well, to each his own.

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