The six-ship convoy had set out to carry 10,000 tonnes of aid from Cyprus to Gaza, despite repeated Israeli warnings that it would not be allowed to reach the territory
The video shows the Israeli soldiers descending to the ship. The video also shows some passengers on the ship brandishing sword like weapons. The Israeli government claims the ships were warned not to approach its territory. The organizers of the flotilla left the coast of Cyprus on Sunday and is reported to have been boarded by the Israeli while in international waters.
We all know the answer how this conflict will end. The nuclear outfitted Israel with support from the globe’s only military superpower the United States will have its way. When will it end? Well it seems like total destruction no solution.
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The murderous Israelis strike again. When is America going to rein these jewish killers?
Never! Ba-rat Obama just increased Israeli military aid to $3 billion a year. And you Bajans braying at the mouth over a paltry $50 million in US aid and planning to roll over and play dead.
There was WAR* in HEAVEN…
WAR* came to earth…
War will be the end of all things…
This is the long trail of human human misery that SATAN*has left…
Money, vice, corruption, denial and a whole sleuth of entrapments has snared men with subconscious attempts to avoid confronting painful realities…
Revelation 9:15 states that ONE-THIRD of all mankind will be killed in a HOLOCAUST of war and destruction…
It is hard to envisage that as we approach a world population of 7 billion souls that well over 2 billion will die due to nuclear WAR*…
No one can even begin to conceptualize such a world…
But this is what the prophetic Scriptures clearly states…
Those who do NOT* die from war will die from famine, bacteriological outbreaks & diseases, mass suicides and freakish supernatural anomalies…
The ax is being laid to the tree…
The angels are releasing the 4 winds…
As one WOE” passes – ‘behold another cometh’…
@CCC
Well here’s something we can see eye to eye on. LOL
Whatever the outcome the Israelis are God’s people, it is because of them through the birth of Jesus Christ that we too can be God’s people. The covenant God made with Abraham is an everlasting covenant, it is about time people respected that. The land Israel is fighting for is rightfully theirs, deal with it.
@Pretty Blue Eyes
I’m just going to ignore that nonsense you just posted. I’m not even going to dignify it with debate…that’s all I have to say.
To those who have no fear, the bible says that whoever blesses Israel would be blessed whoever curses them would be cursed. That has not changed, take a look at the countries that assists them, yes even Barbados who gave them shelter back in the 1930s, the oldest Jewish Synagogue is here we provided shelter for them even when England under the guise of allowing a certain amount there shipped them back to Germany. We keep saying Barbados is blessed but we do not know why, now you know
wolves and leopards
(dennis brown)
Uplifter – Play Fool
Everywhere there is trouble and strife.
My opinion is to get our own house by focusing on in order, discipline, learning , spirituality.
We must depend more on our own produce and less on imported s…, we must cut our reliance on overseas nations.
By declaring ourselves and our seas, zones of peace but maintain our security forces for self-defencem, we will send a message.
We must make it clear that we will not engage in war, aside from our own defence, we must ensure that we are not drawn into conflict, INTERNAL or EXTERNAL, by the deliberate agents (literally) of strife, who traverse the earth doing wickedness and stirring up trouble at the behest of foreign nations.
We must rid our island of the drug pushers and money-launderers (because where there is the first, you will find the second) and rein in the dangers to our society.
That is our route forward, at least we must maintain some semblance of strength, as the world collapses around us.
Omission first sentence’our own house in order by focusing on..’
By the way,
does anyone think it strange that all of a sudden…
Oil ‘accident’ occurs
North Korea sinks a South Korean ship,
Israel attacks a Gaza relief ship……
All the while the European economies and markets internationally are in turmoil…????
Funny, huh?
From what i can see on bbc news, the israelis when rappelling from helicopters to the ships were attacked with steel bars. these were by hardliners looking for publicity well they got it. jersulalem is mentioned 600 times in the bible not once in the koran think about that
rubin:
WTF is rappelling ?
If armed strangers ever attempted to land on my boat in international waters, yeah I fuh sure would whack them with whatever was available, it is called piratical act.
Who TF gave these fascist forces the right to determine that civilians should be starved to death merely to emphasise their stranglehold over another race.
They surely have learned from history and realised that the world would shirk positive, punitive response to outright aggression ( google USS Liberty ), and so they continue to run roughshod over all diplomatic norms , protected by the bought and paid for US Senate.
@rubin…
From what I have been able to determine, the Israeli military boarded ships in international waters.
Three questions:
1. How many Israelis were killed or injured during this attack?
2. How many of those on the ships were killed or injured during this attack?
3. Did any of the ships have any arms?
Reasonable questions, IMHO….
Say what you mean Chris, your namby pamby rhetoric only creates the scenario these thugs need to succeed.
I can see the haters have come out. Hate has no bounds, no mercy, no peace, no LOVE. I am not siding with Israel and I am not siding with the “victims”, I prefer to take the side of truth. There are people that would want to deliver weapons into Gaza. Israel has to defend itself by not allowing weapons into the Gaza. I see victims beating soldiers as they descend ropes. Maybe the video is not real, maybe its made up; maybe hate wants to believe a lie. After all, hate knows no truth. TGKR
@TMB,
Does not need a nuclear war for strife and death., How about market collapse?
Imagine living in NY, Boston, LA or Frankfurt in the midst of a market collapse?
Not pretty. And the markets are fragile, money creation games being successful for the few, propping up the artifical market, but the markets bear the signs of severe stress still.
Weird times indeed.
In the current scenario Israel given the history of the region will ALWAYS feel threatened. We know it has developed its intelligence managed by MOSSAD to be proactive against who it sees as its enemy. There will never be peace in the Middle East.
TheGospelKnightRider // June 1, 2010 at 12:41 AM
I can see the haters have come out. Hate has no bounds, no mercy, no peace, no LOVE. I am not siding with Israel and I am not siding with the “victims”, I prefer to take the side of truth. There are people that would want to deliver weapons into Gaza. Israel has to defend itself by not allowing weapons into the Gaza. I see victims beating soldiers as they descend ropes. Maybe the video is not real, maybe its made up; maybe hate wants to believe a lie. After all, hate knows no truth. TGKR
For someone who is not taking sides, there is a lot of bias in this post.
Your slip is showing!!
David,
Suggest changing last part of title to “Seems like total destruction, the only solution”… apologies to Kiki…
“Organizers of the Gaza aid flotilla that was the target of a deadly Israeli naval raid say they’re sending two more ships to the area within the next few days”
Let us see how the Zionists react to this one.
MME you’re safe man
Warmonger’s should be ashamed of themselves
I Hope They Drop Dead and Go Straight To Hell
Playing for change – Robert
Bradley – Peace all over
the world
We’re going to ride the wings of a dove
Peace Brother you know about love
Peace through music
The biggest joke of all was what I heard on the BBC news this morning. The Israelis are claiming that they acted in self-defence!! “There we were, just happening to rappel fully-armed on to the deck of a civilian ship in international waters and we were attacked!! We didn’t mean any harm, after all. Just stopping by to say “Hi!” and they attacked us.”
Off topic
The Nation has changed the format of its digital edition. So far so good, but I wonder if the upstart competition was a catalyst?
Reviews pending
Warmonger them have to bow down
Warmonger they have to fall down
Jah people them a loving tribe
Jah people them no warmonger
Barry Brown – Warmonger
===========================================================
In the green green pasture
I meet my master
He is humble like a lamb
Yet he is the Lion
He was planting seeds in the ground
I have seen in my vision the king of kings
I have seen in my vision the lord of lords
Conquering Lion in the Tribe of Judah
Steven Wright – Vision Of JAH
Israel’s military doctrine is based on them being militarily stronger than all their enemies combined, but if they continue on this road, they will only succeed in adding to their long list of enemies. Look to see how Turkey reacts, who had been Israel’s only “friend” in the muslim world. If the other regional powers were to grow economically over the next decade, Israel would be forced into a settlement, as there is a limit to US military aid. Much better for them to reach a settlement now while they’re in a position of strength. But they won’t.
Barry Brown – Give Another
Israel A Try
✡
Despite evidence not disputed even by the Israelis that the aid ship was boarded in international waters, mealy mouthed western politicians continue to attempt to gloss over and legitimize this Israeli crime.
This act can be called nothing but piracy and the ship had the right to defend itself against the assault by any means available. But the Israelis are claiming, “the fight started when he hit me back” and is being allowed to get away with it.
The fact is that Israel, a nuclear armed state, is now out of control, courtesy of the USA and feels that it can commit any atrocity with impunity, evidence the massacre and infrastructure destruction in Gaza in December ’08.
The US has just called for international action against North Korea for sinking a South Korean naval vessel. Let’s see if they have the honesty and integrity to condemn this attack and call for action against Israel. But of course the US won’t see any equivalence. I won’t be holding my breath.
Israel has now totally alienated its only Muslim state ally, Turkey, and is building up a reservoir of hate against itself. The hate level is climbing inexorably toward bursting point. Not only Israel will suffer Muslim retribution, but all of us who remain silent and condone injustice.
The Israeli blockade against Gaza is inhumane and unjustifiable. The US had better do something about its pit bull in the middle east before Ahmadinejad shoots it.
What can the US do. A lame duck Obama who talks all over his face but continues the policies of George Bush and we call that change.
Obama came to office on the back of a promise to change Washington and particularly slacken the hold lobbyists have on the way decisions and law making is influenced. He has failed.
Want to guess who are the lobbyists who have the greatest influence in the USA?
The jewish Lobby
Israel is the biggest of peace. Israel is a rogue state with no respect for the UN and international law. Obama has disappointed so far in his handling of the middle-east situation, and it really irks me everytime I hear the US say their relationship with Israel is “unbreakable”, and that they are committed to the security of Israel. In the meantime time Israel continues to take Palestinian lands and treat the people like dirt.
Those of you think that what these modern day Israeli demons are doing is favourable to God, then you too are as lost as a blind man in the wilderness.
The first sentence in my last post should have read “Israel is the biggest enemy of peace”.
@ David….
The Zionists !!
Look at the lame ass response by the US.
Can’t wait to hear Zoe’s response on this new development. ….lol.
There are so powerful that the Israeli PM can dictate on the issue of settlements despite America objections yet the Americans still pump billions of dollars in their war machinery. So you see where the real power is.
This shite getting scary now. I get a cutlas or any thing in my hand to defend myself and now I DEAD!!!!!
Stupse!
@ Crusoe
“How about market collapse? Imagine living in NY, Boston, LA or Frankfurt in the midst of a market collapse? Not pretty. And the markets are fragile, money creation games being successful for the few, propping up the artificial market, but the markets bear the signs of severe stress still…”
I am about to address your concerns….
STAY TUNED!!!!
@CRUSOE
Please take NOTE* – if u do nothing else – OBSERVE* how the JEWISH* hand has ALWAYS* been on the wheel all through RECORDED* human history…
Interesting isn’t it?
STAY TUNED!!!
The recent Israeli action has caused Egypt to lift the Gaza Strip blockade which had been enforced for many years. Many Palestinians are rushing in droves to take advantage of what Egypt terms a humanitarian gesture.
To the moderator that said my slip is showing – Lets deal with the facts and follow the logic to its conclusion, in other words, counter my points with your own and not throw up smoke. To the others; Israel it seems can do no right. What ever Israel does the international community is against them, even the Obama administration seems to be on a different line in a subtle way. This is not the first time the “world” has been against this nation. Hitler was against this nation as well; in fact he wanted to wipe them off the face of the planet (something in common with the Arabs). I believe all people have a right to live on this planet, a right to defend themselves, a right to take actions to ensure their security. I will defend Israel as well as any other Nation; I have no prejudice. (I will not return to another what was given to me a black man – what am I saying? I like white people too). Lets move off of the insults and the cursing and lets engage in points with supporting facts. Lets us be a people focused on solutions and not criticisms, let us be a people to build up and not to tear down. And in doing so we will hopefully leave behind a better world. TGKR
What’s Hitler got to do with Israel’s Raid my boy
@TheGospelKnightRider wrote:
I believe all people have a right to live on this planet, a right to defend themselves, a right to take actions to ensure their security.
——————————————————————————————————–
So what about the Palestinians and their right to live, their right to defend themselves, their right to take action to ensure their security??? I hope I live long enough to see these Israelis like Ehud Barack and Benjamin Netanyahu pay for all their atrocities. Ariel Sharon has already been taken care of, he is currently in a permanent vegetative state after suffering a stroke on 4 January 2006. God aint dead.
Straight talk: “Say what you mean Chris, your namby pamby rhetoric only creates the scenario these thugs need to succeed.
You are correct ST. My above “3. Did any of the ships have any arms?” … should perhaps have more appropriately read: “Did any of the ships have any arms not appropriate for self defence of the ships themselves?
A suggestion for the next convoy attempt…
Perhaps invite international observers to monitor exactly what is loaded on the ships, thus ensuring to Israel that there are not weapons on board.
Then these international observers could sail alongside these aid ships all the way to Gaza, to ensure they were not met up with anyone else…
Not to load them with any other cargo (like, for example, weapons)…
Nor to attack them, thus letting the needed aid through.
Just putting that out there as a reasonable logistical and politician solution….
@All…
Two separate question…
1. Will international observers be allowed to be present when the captured ships are searched, to ensure nothing which wasn’t on the ships when captured are found and/or claimed?
2. What will happen to the aid materials on these ships intended for Gaza? Will they reach Gaza?
@Halsall
You should be asking those questions to the Israelis…how would we know what is going to happen from here? We could only say what we hope or think will happen.
Chris,
You are missing the point. The makeup of the cargo is not the determining factor here. The Israelis are determined to enforce their blockade of Gaza to prevent delivery of ANYTHING, including food, medicines and building materials. They are making sure that Gaza remains an open air prison.
Here it is, Israel’s navy commits an act of piracy in international waters, boards civilian vessels, kills 9 on board when they try to defend the ships, impounds the ships, holds those on board in detention in Israel and the civilized world does nothing (so far).
What the hell is going on? Israel clearly feels it is above the law. And someone comes on here trying to defend them. Now I understand why Ahmadinejad says Israel should be removed from the map.
no more oppression
no more segregation
We Been Troddin – Rhythm &
Sound W/ Shalom
@Inkwell: “Chris, You are missing the point. The Israelis are determined to enforce their blockade of Gaza to prevent delivery of ANYTHING, including food, medicines and building materials. They are making sure that Gaza remains an open air prison.
With respect Inkwell, I am *not* missing the point.
I have learnt that unless one has independently supported evidence available, one does not stand much of a chance before a court.
IMHO, Israel has just thrown itself before the court of public opinion…
And those who previously supported her are shitting themselves over how to deal with it…
Hmmm….
JUST IN>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
OFF MESSAGE>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Nobel Laureate & former Vice-President AL “how green is your life” GORE* will split amicably (what an oxymoron) from his wife TIPPER* after 40 years of marriage… They just celebrated their 40th anniversary last week…
Am I missing something here?
Dear God in Heaven, is there any hope at all for modern marriage?
What more evidence do you need, Chris? Is video evidence from independent journalists on board the vessels not good enough?
Ben & Co. are unrepentant…
If Turkey makes good of their threat to send a warship with the next AID* flotilla and Israel intercepts – this should be cinematographic…
Can’t wait for the cliff-hanger!!!
@Inkwell: “What more evidence do you need, Chris? Is video evidence from independent journalists on board the vessels not good enough?
No.
1. Video evidence is extremely subjective and inaccurate.
2. Who, *exactly*, were these “independent journalists”? Please name them.
3. The camera angles suggests (at least from the footage I’ve seen) that the video shown to the world were not taken from positions upon the ship.
@TMB: “If Turkey makes good of their threat to send a warship with the next AID* flotilla and Israel intercepts – this should be cinematographic…
I agree.
Thus I would suggest that any who can (and I’m talking at the national level here, in addition to interested independent third parties) bring to this problem cameras and GPS receivers.
The latter can be feed to the world in real-time at a very low bit rate (read: NMEA). Video can be captured and stored.
Although it would be useful if a few frames per hour from the cameras could be transmitted to the world from each source in near-real time, so the world could perform an audit after the fact if required.
Check this report out, Chris
http://edition.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/meast/06/01/gaza.raid.eyewitnesses/index.html?hpt=T1
@Inkwell: “Check this report out, Chris
Thank you for that. Seriously.
However, I would continue to argue that if this fight against an oppressor is going to succeed, that a *whole* lot more hard evidence is going to be required, beyond “he said, she said, he said, she said” is going to work.
What, *exactly*, actually happened here?
It’s not actually that hard to collect the hard irrefutable data, from multiple (independent) sources, if you try.
I hope helps rather than bores….
how come we didn’t get total condemnation like this in the world when the white man was ruling.south africa…what crime has the jewish nation done to the world to have every man, woman and child spout such hate against the jewish nation and peoples.
Don’t class up our struggle with the shite Israel is doing!!!!!
They can’t stand us either! Come again ……….. but with another argument!!!
@All…
Just for the record, at this moment in Barbados, Channel 208 (BBC America) as delivered by the Government provided service (MCTV), is displaying the following (exactly):
“VIEWERS PLEASE NOTE THAT WE ARE EXPERIENCING TECHNICAL DIFFICULTIES ON THIS CHANNEL.”
Interestingly, BBC America seems to be readily available from any other source I can contact…
So then the question becomes, is there any reason why Bajans should not be able to access sources that others can?
Turkey ain’t no turkey
This is the 4th or 5th, forget which, biggest army in the world.
No matter the reason, Turkish public opinion, after the killing of unarmed civilians, has turned diametrically against Israel, their once only friendly conduit to the Islamic world.
Turkey if it wishes could stomp Israel out in one, and because of its strategic importance on Russia’s southern flank , not to mention Afghanistan and Iraq, there wouldn’t be a peep from Obama.
i think the Israeli raid was ill advised and heavy handed if not downright illegal but it is understandable and may even be justifiable to them. Some of the posters here need to do some reading and then some thinking.
Israel is not the only country enforcing a blockade of the Gaza. Egypt is as well. Egypt – a Muslim Country- enforces a blockade of the Gaza.
The ships were sailing to a Hamas controlled port which Israel would not allow under any circumstance since in the past aid going into the Gaza has been seized by Hamas for their own uses. What they can’t use is sold for funds to buy weapons.
Hamas has robbed humanitarian agencies of aid before most notably the UNCR on 2 occasions.
Israel offered to the aid ships the opportunity to offload at an Israeli port so that the Cargo could be checked and delivered over land to humanitarian agencies in the Gaza. This was a compromise of some sorts.
The West Bank is not blockaded like the Gaza. Any ideas why?
The statements about international waters are true but since Israel has imposed a blockade, for all intents and purposes they are at war. When sovereign nations are at war international waters mean nothing. The US blockaded Cuba in the Cold War. Remember the Monroe Doctrine. Even now North Korean ships are stopped and searched in international waters by US and NATO vessels.
This was a publicity ploy by the aid ships. they were prepared to sacrifice lives for publicity. Israel’s response was foolhardy but typical . The Israelis already believe that the the world is against them, remember they have no allies only neutrals and enemies so they don’t care about world opinion or the UN.
I will draw a scenario . If you were aboard a private vessel in South Korean waters or off Taiwan and a North Korean or Chinese warship ordered you to pull to and prepare to be boarded and searched would you fire at the boarders? You can be right and still foolhardy. Some of those people delivering aid were just that while others were provocateurs hoping to instigate an incident given Israeli bravado and gung-ho.
This is not a stop and let a pedestrian cross the road issue. it is complex and has tremendous implications for Israel as a country. Israel has been guilty in the past of over reacting and acting illegally and brutality but they correctly believe that their existence is at stake.
How could an Israeli Prime Minister or Security Minister allow those aid boats through to a Hamas controlled port without ascertaining what the cargo was? He would be derelict in his duty to his country especially if 2 days or a week after the shipment the shellings and bombings intensified.
Israel offered a compromise. It was turned down. They then acted to secure the interests of their state.
The stupid thing about this is that this incident changes nothing. The countries against Israel don’t have the military power to constrict Israel or force it to behave. those countries for Israel despite their open condemnations will never allow the UN to sanction Israel so we are back at square one.
It is an unsolvable problem. The Arab extremists don’t believe Israel should exist. Most of Israel was Muslim ruled under Saladin. The Koran states that once land has been under Muslim rule it cannot be allowed to regress to infidels. The Arab fundamentalists will not rest until Israel is pushed into the sea. Israel is too strong for them to do that. It is terminal deadlock.
Many of the posters here do not know anything of the history of the conflict or how many times the Palestinians have been offered statehood but refused. Jordan, Egypt, Turkey and Syria are Arab countries which have either normalized formal relations with Israel or are at a state of relative peace.
As long as the Palestinians continue to allow themselves to be used as pawns by extremists like Hamas and Hezbollah who want to annihilate Israel as opposed to having a homeland for Palestinian refugees, the problem will exist.
The immediate “trigger” for World War 1 was the assassinated on June 28, 1914, of Archduke Francis Ferdinand of Austria by a Serbian student, Gavrilo Princip, while visiting Sarajevo, Bosnia…
The immediate “trigger” for World War 2 was the annexation and subsequent Nazi invasion of Poland…
The “TRIGGER” for WORLD WAR 3 will be a rumor that the King of the South coming up against the King of the North…
The “glorious land” will be the seat of mass bloodshed…
From this will come a global whirlwind enmeshing the world into planetary chaos…
Straight talk you talking idle.
1. A country with nuclear capability cannot be stomped out at once.
2. Size matters little without experience. As a man I have learned that. Israel has the world’s best airforce and boasts battle hardened troops, mechanized infantry and Navy. Playing war is a lot different to fighting one. Why do you think the US periodically gives her forces a run out?
Benjamin was in Canada…
Ehud Barak authorized this botched raid…
Israel is now in a pickle and we have “idiots” like the Administration’s spokesman Regev unrepentant about a raid on a maritime flotilla in international waters…
In all of this, no one is taking into account the role that IRAN* could easily play in this process…
All it will take is for one missile launch from Tehran or Syria and the world will be plunged into a midnight of nuclear winter…
In any case based on a smattering of research, Pakistan, USA, Russia, Iran, South Korea, North Korea, India, China, Vietnam, Brazil and Egypt have larger military forces.
I will say AGAIN – all it takes to light a fire is for a fool to strike a match….
Kim Jong Il is just waiting to give America a good beating….
Have you all not considered the obvious? What is missing? Whatever they were trying to intercept, thus the issue has been caused by that which Israel usually can never be faulted for i.e. bad intelligence.
Who or what and why, gave the information that there were arms on board???
THAT is the issue, especially the WHY….
I smell a RAT, somebody is playing games.
Why would Iran or Syria launch a missile at Israel because of this? Were they Iranian boats? Iranian waters? Here is the pickle. Should the Israelis be asked to silently bear attacks by Arab countries like in the Gulf war because retaliation might bring about the nuclear spectacle? you may think so but the Israelis may not.
Should the israelis have allowed through vessels which could easily have been carrying arms or munitions without checking them? you may think so but again the Israelis may not.
I can assure you that the Israelis think that 20 dead non-Israelis and public condemnation against a wave of rocket attacks or suicide bombings is a good trade off.
OFF MESSAGE>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
BRITISH PETROLEUM IS TAKING A LICKING….
13% wiped of its share value of a £128 billion in just one day…
Could we be witnessing the “DEMISE” of BP?
Will it be relegated to the dustbin of capitalism?
Will it takes down our “PENSION ” pots causing a run on the Stock Market?
What is so exciting is that we are living in such AWESOME* times…
You really can’t script this STUFF!!!
@MME
.
The original title of this blog is hereby amended as proposed by MME.
@ Bad Man Sayin’ Nuttin
“Why would Iran or Syria launch a missile at Israel because of this? Were they Iranian boats? Iranian waters?”
The issue is not why….
It is when!!!
History has a long arm but it also has a long memory…
There is a lot of historical payback simmering below the surface of these nation…
All it will take to light up the night sky is a fool with a historical grievance…
http://www.youtube.com/user/idfnadesk
The Israeli side…
Everyone talking about peace but none talking about justice.
Selector Kiki, drop me that track buy Peter Tosh.
@TMB ‘You really can’t script this STUFF!!!’
———————
Too right, all hella breaking loose. As for the stock market and pension funds, what the Yanks call 401k’s…good loss man…dem a dun.
MUST we reiterate that we need to get our own house in order, our own dependence on the internationals down i.e. food security, transport at minimum actual cost etc?
We need to be prepared for an international crisis.
And it looks like its coming sooner rather than later., most likely with a little ‘help’ from the ‘forces behind the scenes’.
Should be ‘by’ Peter Tosh.
@ BMSN…
Was there any other way that the IDF could have searched the ships?
Bad man I like your name…..
“1. A country with nuclear capability cannot be stomped out at once.”
MY Man, THE way to ensure that you are ‘stomped out at once’ is to be a nuclear power.
The problem with living ‘vi et armis’ (by force and arms) is that your enemy eventually catches up with your technology. It only buys you so much time.
Nuclear power was effective when there was an exclusive club and everyone else was weak, but in a world where even MME and Bush Tea could probably make an effective atomic device there is no safety in such ‘power’.
All it will take is an aggrieved radical idiot with access to a few MMEs and a couple million dollars, to walk into a small country with a few suitcases and stomp!!
♯
♳ Equal Rights
♴ No Equal Rights In Babylon
It was only a matter of time, and NOW the haters of Israel, world-wide have the perfect excuse to demand harsh sanctions against the only democracy in the middle East, Isreal, literally a *DOT* of land surrounded by MILLIONS of square miles of Arabic land, that could create dozens if not hundreds of State(s) for the Palestinians, who were NEVER a State prior to the modern Statehood of Isreal ( 1948), and have been kept in this state of subjugation, NOT by Isreal, but by their very own Arab brothers for over 60 years, for the express purpose of continuing to propergate their LIES, of Israeli ‘aggression’ ‘end occupation’ all vicious lies, Arabic ‘Turnspeak’ a cynical turning and inverting of the FACTS, to make Israel look like the agressor, when in truth and in fact, Isreal is the victim, continuously over the past sixty years, has been attacked by the Arab countries, beginning 24 hours after its official, modern declared Statehood, (1948) for one purpose to WIPE, ANNIHILATE her off the face of the earth, and the Islamic, Arabic countries, CAN’T get this done. Each and every time they attempted to WIPE Israel off the earth, 1948-49, 56, 67, 73, they failed, bearing in mind, each time Israel WAS ATTACKED, and simply defended itself.
Gaza, which is rightfully part and parcel of Israel, was given over to the Palestinians, to make *peace* Hamas forcefully took it over, to get closer to the borders of Israel, to TORMENT innocent Israeli towns, civilians, and THIS they did for YEARS, launching *thousands* of rockets and mortar fire into Israel, Israel took it over and over again, and, finally could take it no more, attacked Hamas, who hid behind everything and anyone they could, children, schools, hospitals, etc, etc, COWARDS, liars, to make the Israeli forces look bad, Isaraeli (IDF) sent numerous flyers, messages, etc, waring the civilian pop, to leave their residences, in order to minimize casualty.
Hamas was gives billions in aid to rebuild Gaza, and what did they do with the funds? Rather than rebuld Gaza for the poeple, they relentlessly used the money to fortify their ARM forces, to attack Israel whenever it is right for them to do so.
Most people don’t know than an average of 15,000 tons of humanitarian aid are delivered to the region of Gaza each WEEK, though the various crossing with Israel. Also, people are not starving and in dire straights.
Unfortunately, the Gaza flotilla was NOT about giving aid, that was only a PR stunt, but, rather fulfilling an *agenda* to make Israel look bad in the eyes of the world. In simple terms the Israeli commandos were ambushed as they descended upon the ships. as Army Radio reporter Gal Lev-Rom said: “The demonstrators on board attacked the Israelis with light weaponry, including knives and clubs, in true lynch-like fashion. the commandos are certainly well-trained, but it’s quite hard to fight back when it’s 6-10 people against you. They stated beating the soldiers with bats and sharp objects and the like, and even some pistols were taken and fired at our soldiers.”
It is also quite apparent that many on the ship were committed anarchist/terrrorists. As Maayana Miskin in her article, “Isarael Prepares to Detain, Deport Gaza Flotilla Activists, reported: “While the flotilla organizers present themselves as human rights advocates whose sole goal is to assist the people of Gaza, a report by the Intelligence and Terroism Information Center reveals the groups coorperation with radical human rights vialators. Senior Islamic extremists, among them, Mahmad Tzoalha and Sahar Albirawi, both toop Hamas terrorist who today operate in Great Britain, and Hamam Said, a leader of the Muslim Brotherhood in Jordan, attented the launching ceremony in Istanbul of a boat participating in the flotilla.”
In addition, Palestinian Media Watch has just reported: “On the day before the Gaza flotilla confronted the Israeli navy, Al-Jazeera TV documented the pre-battle atmosphere created by men on board the flotilla, who chanted a well-known Islamic battle cry invoking the KILLING and DEFEAT of Jews in battle:
“[Remember] Khaibar, of Jews! The army of Muhammhad will return!”
Khaibar is the name of the last Jewish village defeated by Muhammad’s army in AD 628. Many Jews were killed in that battle, which marked the end of Jewish presence in Arabia. There are Muslims who see that as a precusor to future wars against Jews. At gatherings and rallies of extremists, this chant is often heard as a threat to Jews to expect to be defeated and killed again by Muslims.
Al-Jazeera also interviewed a woman who said that the flotilla participants’ ‘goal’ was “One of two happy endings: either Martyrdom or reaching Gaza.”
But, all of this is to be expected, as the Word of God, the Bible, has clearly prophesied all that is unfolding, as *Jerusalem* the ancient capital of Israel, will be made a ‘stumbling’ block to the Nations of the world, and Israel will NEVER cease to be a Nation, as Almighty God has declared it to be SO.
A bit of HELL could very well break forth on earth very soon, starting right here in the Middle East, the beginning of the End-Times scenario, all predicted in Almighty God’s Word, the Bible!
SOS. Morse code distress signal (· · · — — — · · ·). (Same Old Shit) ♻
· · · — — — · · ·
♶ Get Up Stand Up Equal Rights
Demos 1977
♷ Wackies – The Mysterious Mixer
– Dub Star
Zoe, true to form!!
@technician
where have you been hiding out ? Haven’t heard much from you lately!
Question Why is Obama so quiet on this conflict?
zoe, crusoe,
glad you guys have your eyes open.the only error the israelis committed was not being prepared to be attacked in hand to hand combat. ships are stopped all over the world searched and let go, normal crew just stand aside. the real intended purpose of certain persons on board was to use the media to further their cause by inciting israeli overreaction. but hey if someone was attacking me with an iron bar who knows…….
@ac…
Not hiding out at all. Studying for 2 certification exams, where the books are 3 inches thick lol. Internet access on my pc is limited, so I am using my blackberry (eat ya heart out GP..lol).
Just taking a peek @ the blog ever so often but still here.
Zoe’s tirade can be put in context by the following quote, which I am sure he/she sincerely believes: “On the day before the Gaza flotilla confronted the Israeli navy….” Propaganda worthy of Hitler.
ZOE
“In simple terms the Israeli commandos were ambushed as they descended upon the ships”
Just like Somali pirates the Israeli pirates took over the ships in international waters. This was an act of state sponsored piracy. The people on board had every right to defend their ships by whatever means was available.
I tip my hat to them. They should have thrown more Israelis overboard, it would have blessed my heart.
Given the long and tumultuous history of the Middle East with emphasis on Israel what maybe a simple action by others maybe interpreted as being provocative by Israel/Palestinan people. It is a messy situation and cannot be placated in the traditional ways.
Amazing….the IDF knew the activists were of the ‘militant ‘ type.
They knew the ‘mentality’ of the people, yet they were ‘surprised’ that it led to this…..what a crock!!
They knew or hoped it would have led to this, it was what the IDF wanted.
@ Technician
I am not sure if there was another way to search the boats. I keep saying to myself that there must have been a better option than a night raid though.
@ Bush Man the problem is not making an atomic device. Accurate delivery is also a must. If Iran or Syria sets off a nuclear device anywhere in Israel they must know that Israel will hit every Arab city in the middle east before they can blink. The Israelis have the air capacity and the ICBM technology to do it. The Arabs don’t as yet.
@ Terence I understand your point; A fool will not need a reason to launch. But tell me this , if the prevailing belief is that Iran or Syria or some Arab country will eventually launch a nuclear attack at Israel Why is it that world opinion seems to think that the Israelis are the bigger problem in this eternal conflict?
As has already been established, this so-called “humanitarian” flotilla, at best, a cynical PR stunt, that back-fired in the face of the Islamist ‘haters’ of Israel. There is NO food shortage in Gaza. Israel maintains an OPEN corridor for the transfer of food to Gaza, and this route is used daily by legitimate relief organizations including the United Nations and the Red Cross. Over the last eighteen months, well OVER a MILLION tons of humanitarian supplies have entered Gaza from Israel. This equals almost a ton of aid for every man, woman and child in Gaza.
And BTW, whatever humanitarian aid that was on board those ships, has already or is presently being delivered to Gaza by Israel.
@ Zoe…
As a stark defender of Israel and the IDF, can you , for the BU forum, explain in detail, the events surrounding the USS Liberty?
@ Bad man saying nuttin’
“Why is it that world opinion seems to think that the Israelis are the bigger problem in this eternal conflict?”
ZOE, GP et al may be better qualified to give you a Biblical historical exegesis on this provocative question…
The operative word you used “ETERNAL” does have truly lasting ramifications….LOL
One could go all the way back to the PATRIARCH* Abraham to make sense of this age-old conflict but it would do precious little to make sense of what is a complex spiritual issue coupled with serious “religious” connotations that affects the politics of the regions in more ways than one….
JERUSALEM (the city of peace) has NEVER* known peace. It won’t know true peace until the Prince of Peace comes again to rule in an earth made new…
Meantime, brother will fight against brother – killing eachother in the name of “some god” – all the while pushing us all closer and closer to that doomsday scenario…
Politicians are clueless. Religionists exacerbate conditions because of their inherent blindness. And the masses get polarized along ethnic, ideological and socioeconomic lines.
As the ‘ole cliche goes – the more things change, the more they stay the same!!!
OFF MESSAGE TO A POINT>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
A lone gunman (one Derek Bird) has wreaked havoc in the sleepy county of CUMBRIA by going on deadly rampage of mass killing shooting some 36 people – 12 are dead and the others are in hospital…….
So yes CRUSOE* boy – we are truly in an age of serious SOCIAL UNREST*…
I can’t wait for what’s next!!!
Maybe Kim Jong Il will shoot the 2nd missile across the starboard-bow bringing us closer to the APOCALYPTIC* precipice!!!
Or maybe the dominoes will finally fall from the series of global conflicts going on around the world – one after the other!!!
Whatever the trigger – we know something truly supernatural is coming down the pike with consequences we will not be able to handle…
Technician
I wish you well in your exams
I wish you success in this endeavour
I am not going to say much about what is going on….except this.
My study of the Word indicates that the only prophecies NOT yet fulfilled relate to the details of the end times.
This includes many unfulfilled prophecies concerning the in gathering of Israel and the wars that will be fought against them.
Now as you know, I am not very smart. I am in fact untalented and teach at the 3/10 level. However, I have noticed (and others also) that EVERY prophecy in the Bible has come to past EXACTLY as predicted. Sometimes beating amazing probability odds.
Quae cum ita sint (that being the case) I in my stupidity, believe that ALL THE OTHER UNFULFILLED PROPHECIES WILL ALSO BE FULFILLED EXACTLY.
The Bible predicts that the Lord Jesus Christ at the second phase of the second coming will wIN ISRAEL’s BATTLE when they seem out to the baller.
The Bible predicts also that in the interim God will protect Israel.
Now many of you dont believe in God, or what I have said above, but we will see.
Now you can enjoy your rants about the evils of Israel and whether they are right or wrong in thier contemporary practices. I will just quietly laugh in my corner.
BTW Jacob’s prediction in Genesis 49 that they will strike oil seems to be very close to fulfillment. When that is finally anounced (pardon the pun) things will get hotter and hotter.
IN the interim you may back the eventual losers.
Israel has been defying UN resolutions and international law since the modern state of Israel was established in 1948 through the betrayal of Palestine. Israel has nuclear weapons which they have never admitted to having, but the imprisonment of Mordechai Vanunu tells the story. Everything about is Israel is built around betrayal, deception, and defiance…and Israel should be punished severely.
Above should read every FULFILLED prophecy in the Bible has come to past EXACTLY as predicted. Sometimes beating amazing probability odds.
@GP: “Above should read every FULFILLED prophecy in the Bible has come to past EXACTLY as predicted.
As a scientist, care to give hard data supporting your claims?
A second question: what about the unFULFILLED
prophesies?
Or are they simply thrown out of the analysis in order to match the curve?
Atman were the British and their empire any less based on betrayal deception, and defiance?
How about the US and their foreign policy towards South and Central America, Asia?
The Chinese and their cultural revolution, their attitude towards Tibet?
USSR and communism, their treatment of the Warsaw pact countries?
Lots of Caricom countries and their approach to regional institutions especially paying contributions?
France towards their African colonies?
Europe , USA, Canada The entire western world and their attitudes and positions on South Africa during the apartheid years?
Would not deceit, betrayal and defiance characterize all of these situations?
Try to live in the real world. All countries act in their own best interests whether it involves betrayal , deceit and/or defiance. Such is the nature of international relations and diplomacy.
@ GP….
Thanks for the well wishes, I will need them lol.
@Bad man saying nuttin: “Would not deceit, betrayal and defiance characterize all of these situations?
Indeed.
And thus all 6+ billion humans have learnt to care about nothing but trying to take advantage of others, if they can.
@Technician.
Don’t think too hard. Remember all work and no play make a dull day. I hope your efforts would be truly rewarded. I know you can do it as you have the discipline not to quit.. Continued success in your endeavours. Keep Bu posted.Best of luck
Re A second question: what about the unFULFILLED
prophesies?
ALL OF THE UNFULFILLED PROMISES RELATES TO THE SECOND COMING
All promises that are not related to the second coming have all been fulfilled in every minute detail. Only the seconf coming predictions remain to come to past. Even now we can see things coming into place for their fulfillment.
@Georgie Porgie // June 2, 2010 at 2:49 PM;
Grateful for a few examples of the fulfilled prophesies of the bible and if possible their similarities to and differences from the myriad, conflicting and often unfulfilled prophecies of the modern day prophets of various religions.
Israel of the old testament was a terrorist state and God allowed its people to be humiliated and scattered since they had turned their faces against him. Is modern Israel any different? Are they following the tenets of a Christian, forgiving, all loving God? Israel of the modern days is an even more ravenous terrorist state, given the civilising norms of the times. It is still to be seen if God will allow Israel to prosper and rain down war on the World, despite the obscure prophecies in Revelations.
@GP: “All promises that are not related to the second coming have all been fulfilled in every minute detail.
Care to present evidence supporting your claims?
@Bad man
So are you one is critical of so-called terrorists and extremists when they act in their own best interest? If one should not be critical of Israel’s behaviour and demand justice, then it would be unreasonable to be critical of those you may call terrorists. In my book the Israeli government and American government practice their own form of terrorism…even though they wouldn’t call it that.
@ Atman
Can you elaborate on the betrayal of Palestine.
Checkit-Out
Re Grateful for a few examples of the fulfilled prophesies of the bible
Examples are the prophecies of Daniel concerning Babylon. Medes and Persians, Grecce, Romans and we are now approaching the formation of the Revived Roman Empire or the feet of clay of Neubuchadnezer’s image about which he dreamt.
The numerous fulfilled prophecies in minute detail concerning the first coming of Christ.
Re “and if possible their similarities to and differences from the myriad, conflicting and often unfulfilled prophecies of the modern day prophets of various religions.”
I tend not to enter these realms Sir.
Re Israel of the old testament was a terrorist state. I don’t define them as such LOL
Re and God allowed its people to be humiliated and scattered since they had turned their faces against him. This happened twice as was predicted in I think it is Deuteronomy.
Re Is modern Israel any different? Are they following the tenets of a Christian, forgiving, all loving God? NO This is also predicted in the prophretic Scriptures Sir.
RE Israel of the modern days is an even more ravenous terrorist state, given the civilising norms of the times. I don’t define them as such LOL
Re It is still to be seen if God will allow Israel to prosper They have done very wll since their return to the promised land. Brought the land back from a dessert to great productivity.
Re and rain down war on the World, WE SHALL SOON SEE SIR!
RE despite the obscure prophecies in Revelations.
The prophecies of Revelation are not obscure Sir.
Revelation is the culmination of Bible prophesy.
If you have not studied the prophesies in the brooks and streams rivulets and rivers of the rest of the Bible, you will be lost in the sea of Revelation where all these prophesies come to a grand finale.
In many places Revelations assumes knowledge of material found elsewhere; e.g in Revelation 20 “a thousand years or the millennium” is glossed over as it is mentioned four times, but this topic is dealt with in detail in the Psalms and several other prophetic passages. YOu will not learn what the millennium is by reading Revelation
@Dr. GP: “YOu will not learn what the millennium is by reading Revelation…
Sad….
Lets just admit it shall we?!!?!
Mankind just cannot wait to burse one anudder head. Mankind just ig’runt.
Yes, or No?
Dun widdat!
@TMB – Was that Beirut, Tivoli, Mexico, Islamabad? No…CUMBRIA!!!
What the….
Anudder nutter. Just tek he gun and loss way de ting…
Truth be told, I am not technically ‘with’ those who believe in predicitons, etc etc…
BUT, I cannot blame someone for believeing that the ‘end-times’ are upon us, all heck brek loose, from nature to mankind.
@Technician
The Arabs in Palestine were promised independence if fought with Britain to defeat the Turks, but at the same time Britain made a pact with the Jews to establish a home for them in Palestine. The Palestinian Arabs were betrayed…and to this day they have no state of their own.
The Balfour Declaration
———————————–
1915-1916
Conflict brewed between the Arabs and Jews during World War I. At this time, England and France signed the Sykes-Picot Agreement to “divide the [Middle East] into British and French zones of influence.”
Concurrently, in the Husayn-McMahon correspondences, Henry McMahon, British high commissioner of Egypt, and Sherif Husayn of the Hejaz agreed to Britain’s Arab alliance in defeating the Turks in exchange for Palestine independence. Avoiding further conflict, Britain manipulated the letters to make both the Arabs and Jews believe they were getting the territories.
1917
Arthur Balfour, British statesman, proclaimed the Balfour Declaration on November 2 nd . The Declaration stated the British government “views with favor the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people.” A shocked Arab nation felt deceived by Britain.
Following the war, Britain controlled Palestine under the permission of the League of Nations. The Arabs “demanded the immediate introduction of majority-rule government.” This was to the Arabs advantage as they were ninety-two percent of the population.
Meanwhile, Jews “demanded the strict fulfillment of the promises implicit in the Balfour Declaration.” Britain, under commitment, had no choice but to abide.
Georgie Boy:
Do I detect a more moderate approach in today’s postings?
If so it’s most admirable, and I for one judge it as a great asset to the blog.
Your posting of the Jamaican conspiracy theory was a revelation 1:1… and power to your elbow for doing it.
We are fed such pasteurised crap by our local media and desperately need outside opinions, however off message, to drive debate, and that’s what this blog is all about -debate, learning through sound logical posts, not belittleance, so we can all come to a reasonable judgment upon where we are at this moment in this complex and confusing time.
I hope my wet finger is correct (CH notwithstanding) and we can all look forward to a more informed understanding of the world we live in.
@TMB
“A lone gunman (one Derek Bird) has wreaked havoc in the sleepy county of CUMBRIA by going on deadly rampage of mass killing shooting some 36 people – 12 are dead and the others are in hospital…….
So yes CRUSOE* boy – we are truly in an age of serious SOCIAL UNREST*…”
=====
In 1987 a lone gunman killed 16 people and wounded 15 others with amongst other weapons an AK47, in the sleepy (very sleepy) town of Hungerford.
That would be 23 years ago. Some age.
Some logic.
@ ac….
Thanks, I will try…trust me, its not all work and no play…lol.
All the best, Tech.
I smell a rat too , CCTV cameras is miraculously stop wuk when they don’t want certain images to be recored yet these image make it to the main stream media……and are actually broadcasted. Uhn uhn……something real fishy round here. Either its supposed to be a distraction or an excuse for escalation of something…………time will tell i guess
Straight talk
I am usually benign Sir and mild mannered. I like making sport, such that many dont take me seriously until I get serious LOL
But nonsense is nonsense.
People who come here should not be telling lies, or spewing false information, and should be willing to be corrected.
The penchant to “challenge and put pressure” as one person calls it is nonsense. So is contradicting what others say just to be stupid. Such folk need to be stamped on. And I will do it every time. It takes the fun out of coming here.
My philosophy is if you are not teaching me then I should be teaching you, but there shouldbe an interchange of facts coherently and logically presented. If we are cracking jokes then we are cracking jokes.
The posting of the Jamaican conspiracy theory was something sent to me my an elder of my church back in Bim. It was sent out by an elderly Jamaican believer now living in South Florida whom I respect highly. So I thought there might be some merit in it . But I do not know much about these things.
I figured you guys might find it interersting.
We are fed such pasteurised crap by our local media and desperately need outside opinions, however off message, to drive debate, and that’s what this blog is all about -debate, learning through sound logical posts,
I agree with that completely
I have explained to you above why I have and will go after the morons. We must not post nonsense just to prove a point or win an arguement. I am not interested in debate. I stay out of stuff I kn ow nothing about and seek to share facts about what I know.
Some have been too quick to judge me. I take this thing as serious as if it were my job.
@ Not Saved…
Thanks.
Bad man saying nuttin // June 1, 2010 at 5:35 PM
i think the Israeli raid was ill advised and heavy handed if not downright illegal but it is understandable and may even be justifiable to them. Some of the posters here need to do some reading and then some thinking.
Israel is not the only country enforcing a blockade of the Gaza. Egypt is as well. Egypt – a Muslim Country- enforces a blockade of the Gaza.
The ships were sailing to a Hamas controlled port which Israel would not allow under any circumstance since in the past aid going into the Gaza has been seized by Hamas for their own uses. What they can’t use is sold for funds to buy weapons.
Hamas has robbed humanitarian agencies of aid before most notably the UNCR on 2 occasions.
Israel offered to the aid ships the opportunity to offload at an Israeli port so that the Cargo could be checked and delivered over land to humanitarian agencies in the Gaza. This was a compromise of some sorts.
The West Bank is not blockaded like the Gaza. Any ideas why?
The statements about international waters are true but since Israel has imposed a blockade, for all intents and purposes they are at war. When sovereign nations are at war international waters mean nothing. The US blockaded Cuba in the Cold War. Remember the Monroe Doctrine. Even now North Korean ships are stopped and searched in international waters by US and NATO vessels.
This was a publicity ploy by the aid ships. they were prepared to sacrifice lives for publicity. Israel’s response was foolhardy but typical . The Israelis already believe that the the world is against them, remember they have no allies only neutrals and enemies so they don’t care about world opinion or the UN.
I will draw a scenario . If you were aboard a private vessel in South Korean waters or off Taiwan and a North Korean or Chinese warship ordered you to pull to and prepare to be boarded and searched would you fire at the boarders? You can be right and still foolhardy. Some of those people delivering aid were just that while others were provocateurs hoping to instigate an incident given Israeli bravado and gung-ho.
This is not a stop and let a pedestrian cross the road issue. it is complex and has tremendous implications for Israel as a country. Israel has been guilty in the past of over reacting and acting illegally and brutality but they correctly believe that their existence is at stake.
How could an Israeli Prime Minister or Security Minister allow those aid boats through to a Hamas controlled port without ascertaining what the cargo was? He would be derelict in his duty to his country especially if 2 days or a week after the shipment the shellings and bombings intensified.
Israel offered a compromise. It was turned down. They then acted to secure the interests of their state.
The stupid thing about this is that this incident changes nothing. The countries against Israel don’t have the military power to constrict Israel or force it to behave. those countries for Israel despite their open condemnations will never allow the UN to sanction Israel so we are back at square one.
It is an unsolvable problem. The Arab extremists don’t believe Israel should exist. Most of Israel was Muslim ruled under Saladin. The Koran states that once land has been under Muslim rule it cannot be allowed to regress to infidels. The Arab fundamentalists will not rest until Israel is pushed into the sea. Israel is too strong for them to do that. It is terminal deadlock.
Many of the posters here do not know anything of the history of the conflict or how many times the Palestinians have been offered statehood but refused. Jordan, Egypt, Turkey and Syria are Arab countries which have either normalized formal relations with Israel or are at a state of relative peace.
As long as the Palestinians continue to allow themselves to be used as pawns by extremists like Hamas and Hezbollah who want to annihilate Israel as opposed to having a homeland for Palestinian refugees, the problem will exist.
——————————————————-
An excellent summary
We can engage in back and forth debate with merits on both sides but when the dust is settled we can agree that it seems like total destruction no solution.
There nothing to contradict and take the wind out of the sails of Bad man saying nuttin’s attempt to legitimize Israel’s actions, nothing except FACTS, that is.
The Israelis knew full well that the cargo contained NO WEAPONS and that the passengers had no ties to terrorist groups.
Their action was solely to prevent the aid reaching Gaza so that they could maintain their stranglehold on the territory. They were determined that no one was going to flout their blockade.
All ships were thoroughly searched by local port authorities in Greece and Turkey prior to their departure. Additionally, the coalition hired an independent security firm to search the ships and certify that no weapons were on board. All passengers went through nonviolence training and were likewise searched for weapons prior to boarding. The Turkish government, a member-state of the NATO alliance, vetted all the Turkish passengers to insure there was no one with ties to extremist groups. These precautionary steps were deliberately taken to prevent Israeli propaganda officials from ever being able to claim that the Freedom Flotilla posed any ‘security risk’ to Israel.
There was a live satellite feed broadcasting the voyage from the Mavi Marmara, as well as GPS transponders showing the exact location of the flotilla at all times to anyone viewing the coalition website. The intention of the Freedom Flotilla was never to ‘provoke a confrontation,’ but simply to deliver much-needed humanitarian aid to besieged Gaza, and in so doing to draw attention to the brutal Israeli policies that are forcing the Palestinian people into a state of impoverished dependency.
On 27 May, Bloomberg News reported that Israel was threatening to use its military forces and “use all available means to stop the ships”
On 28 May the Associated Press reported that the Israeli government was prepared to stop the flotilla “at any cost,” including being “prepared to use force.” (‘Israeli gunships head to sea to block flotilla’). It was further reported that masked naval commandos were being “trained” to stop the flotilla.
Israel is sure that it can commit any act of terrorism and get away with it. Even forging passports to commit MURDER overseas doesn’t bring condemnation from its collaborators.
Inkwell, “The israeli’s knew full well that the cargo contained NO WEAPONS and that the passengers had no ties to terrorist groups.”
“The action was solely to prevent the aid reaching Gaza so that they could maintain their stranglehold on the territory. They were determined that no one was going to flout their blockage.”
First: “…the passengers had no ties to terrorist groups.”
Really!!!
The following is a transcript from Al-Jazeera TV.
Reporter: “Despite the Israeli threats and several unexpected delays, the arrival of the ships at the meeting point before sailing to the Gaza Strip *INFLAMED* the emotions and the enthusaism of the participants.”
Visuals from the Gaza flotilla ship young Muslims shouting Islamic battle chant invoking the KILLING and defeat of Jews in battle.: ‘[Remember] Khaibar, oh Jew! The army of Muhammad will return [Khaibar is the name of the last Jewish villiage defeated by Muhammad's army and it marked the end of Jewish presence in Arabia AD 628]
Reporter: “While singing songs reminiscent of the Palestinian *Intifada* (palestinian war against Israel, 2000-2005), participants expressed their longing to reach Gaza” [Based on Islamic call before battle: "Either victory or Martyrdom") [Al-Jazeera TV, May 29, 2010).
"Hamas's Al-Aqsa TV chose to glorify flotilla participants who shouted the Islamic battle cry by broadingcasting an interview with a university lecturer who referred to them as 'those with faith and will."
Hamas TV Host: "Strong motivation."
Shayyeq Naaman: "One woman standing on the ship said that now we are awaiting one of two happy endings: either Martyrdom or the beaches of Gaza."
"Al-Jazeera also reports that before the confrontation, flotilla participants announced that they would use "resistence" against Israel. *Mukawama8 (resistence) is the Arabic term used by Palestinians to refer to ALL VIOLENCE against Israel, inculding terror."
"The foltilla inculdes hundreds of Arab and foriegn solidarity activists from more than 40 countries...They have announced their determination to use RESISTENCE to any attempt at piracy by the Israeli occupation." [Al_Jazeera website, May 29, 2010].
Now, does the above quotes sound like peaceful people, on a mission to bring aid to Gaza, who ARE ALREADY receiving 15,000 tons each week through regulated organizations, UN and Red Cross, and Israel made it abundently clear, THAT they would willingly allow the aid through their own ports, BUT, not directly to Gaza, as there IS a *War* going on between Israel and Hamas, who have launched THOUSANDS of rockets and mortar fire INTO Israeli towns, and have stated in the Hamas charter, that their SOLE intent IS to wipe Israel of the face of the earth.
Can any logical, reasonably thinking person, in the face of the vehement, openly declared intent of HAMAS, Hezbollah, Iran, the PA, and other Arabic, Islamists, who HATE the State of Israel and all Jews, and whose SOLE agenda, is the ANNIHILATION of Israel, expect Israel to do other wise than what they did in boaring the ship, and NOT properly armed, as they DID NOT expect these so-called innocent people to ATTACK them, how can one soldier decending on a rope, deal with 6-10 radically inflamed, terrorist-oriented Islamist, who HATE Israel and Jews?
Another article on the Israeli terrorist actions in the Mediterranean
http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2010/06/01/the-mediterranean-massacre/
I am not an Israeli apologist. I don’t support or condemn them. It does not make one ounce of difference to me. It does not affect whether I eat sleep work or die.
I have simply tried to show the thought process involved esp for the Israelis.
Given what I said do you think the Israelis will trust their national security to Greek and Turkish authorities? or a private security firm?
Do you think that they will take a chance that another boat didn’t rendezvous with the flotilla? Would the US have allowed somebody else to inspect Russian ships when they blockaded Cuba? Think man Think
The utter ignorance of so many in the world and right here on BU, regarding Israel historically, for THOUSANDS of years, that Jerusalem IS the Capital of ancient and modern-day Israel, yet, listen to the perceived, so-called moderate leader of the PLO, Abbas.
“World opinion was that a replacement for Arafat would bring with him a voice of moderation and, sure enough, upon Arafat’s death, the world welcomed his ‘moderate’ successor. This was a change without a change, because he is quoted as saying:
‘It is our duty to impliment the principles of Yasir Arafat.”
And what exactly were the ‘principles’ of that Grandfather of modern-day Terrorism, Yasir Arafat? To have and control ALL the land that is rightfully Israel’s.
“This was a change without a change, because, true to the PLO colours, the night following his election in January 2005, Abbas publicly proclaimed that he would INTENSIFY the war against Israel: ‘The little Jihad [under Arafat] had ended, and now the big *Jihad* is beginning.” But everyone wants to ignore these types of remarks, and Israel is presurred to give up more and more land – NOT for peace, but only as confidence building measures, to show the ‘Palestinian’ people that their leader is able to gain more and more territory for them with ‘no strings attached’, that they should have confidence in him, that Israel will be whittled down by him, little by little – according to the doctrine of The PLO Phased Plan. And four months later in a televised speech, on the occasion of Israel’s Independence Day, this ‘moderate’ leader described the 1948 creation of the State of Israel as an unprecendented historic crime and vowed his unwavering refusal to EVER “accept this injustice.”
Hear Abbas:
“We will celebrate once we reach our goals and establish a Palestinian state with Jerusalem as its capital…Jerusalem is closer than ever. We promise you, Arafat…we will continue to follow your path and carry out your promise that Palestinian girls and boys WILL wave the Palestinian flag ABOVE the walls of Jerusalem, its mosques and churches. We will continue until victory…Our forces…are ready to FREE the ENTIRE land (Israel). (Prophecies For The Era of Muslim Terror, p.126) emphasis added.
The ‘land’ that the State of Israel rightfully has as their Covenanted, God-given State, agreed to by the League of Nations, and the UN, IS NOT the problem, as there IS enough land, MILLIONS of square miles within the vast Arabic nations, to completely satisfy over and over again, a State for their Palestinian brothers, BUT, they WILL NOT do this, why NOT? Because, it will then realease them from tormenting the State of Israel and ALL Jews, as they HATE, DO NOT want the State of Israel to EXIST, it must be totally destroyed, wiped off the face of the earth, ANNIHILATED!
how can one soldier decending on a rope, deal with 6-10 radically inflamed, terrorist-oriented Islamist, who HATE Israel and Jews?
Easy Zoe….by not descending the rope.
Would you agree that your rhetoric can also be found in the average israeli, in terms of their hatred to Palestinians?
I could list hundreds of quotes by high ranking Israeli officials that sound similar to those of Hamas.
You talk of all this aid getting to Gaza but what Gaza needs is the rebuilding of its infrastructure such as power stations, water pumping stations, buildings, homes and schools etc.
Israel refuses to let building materials in, using the stupid reason of the Palestinians building bunkers (wtf). The only aid that gets to Gaza is what Israel allows for whatever flimsy reasons.
I would ask you to put humanity first but given your take on Haiti, it would be an exercise in futility.
So while we await prophecy to be fulfilled, thousands of people, old and young, men and women, children and adults, continue to suffer at the hands of God’s chosen people.
New Israeli Tack Needed on Gaza, U.S. Officials SayBy ETHAN BRONNER
The Obama administration considers Israel’s blockade of Gaza to be untenable and plans to press for another approach, U.S. officials said.
Joke of the day, should have posted it in the jokes corner.
Onlookers:
With great reluctance, and in the interests of correcting a few outright slanders and much unbalanced information, I will — having had a correspondence with the Blog Owner on the matter — give some corrective information, for the record.
(Those interested in prolonged points scoring debates will be reminded that they were more than met on their own terms in the past few months, and plainly came off the worse for the exchange. This is a for the record, and an expression of my disappointment with the all too common poor level of public commentary and lack of concern to be sound or fair in our region — a few notable exceptions notwithstanding. I also point out that we have a duty of care to be accurate and fair, so the excuse of being “challenging” or that people are “free” to make corrections, or whatever other excuses may be trotted out, cannot justify misleading, deceptive or slanderous or outright defamatory remarks. Nor can it justify a blog owner or moderator enabling and allowing such remarks to pass uncorrected.)
I will do so in the main by giving a link to my own discussion, noting the onward links on the general legitimacy of Israel on its modern history, and on the relevant law of Blockades in times of war.
(I note that Zoe and others have been quite correct to point out that there is in fact no real humanitarian crisis [though, sadly, there is much poverty; in significant part caused by a foolish policy of war on the religiously motivated declaration of intent to commit genocide against Jews in the Hamas Charter Clause 7, instead of developing the territory through properly using the billions in aid that have been available]. Similarly, in excess of 100 tons of food, medicines etc are trucked into Gaza per day from and through Israel, in addition to the water supply and electricity. Also, each year, many thousands of Gazans routinely seek and obtain world class medical help in Israel, much of it free. Dual use materials such as cement [bunkers, tunnels] and pipes [rockets . . . routinely used to bombard Israeli civilians] are more tightly controlled, to hinder diversion to military or terrorism uses. Plainly, though, Israel differentiates between the civilians and the terrorist warlord regime that has them in thralldom. Quite different from the persistent behaviour of Hamas and other groups responsible for over 6,000 rockets launched at civilian areas of Israel from Gaza in the five years since disengagement; noting too that in 1979, Israel offered to return Gaza to Egyptian control as a part of the settlement at Camp David, but Egypt refused to take responsibility for the Gaza strip their armies had captured during their 1948 invasion of Israel, launched a day after its Declaration of Independence under the UN partition resolution. And the wider context of a build up to an Iran-backed missile war against Israel should be understood. One should have hoped that he world would have learned a lesson from the appeasement attempts of the 1930′s; but, alas the ongoing Iranian campaign to acquire nuclear weapons on declared intent to destroy Israel gives the lie to such forlorn hopes.)
An examination of the six videos in the linked will make it clear beyond reasonable doubt that:
1 –> a blockade was in effect [a joint Israeli-Egyptian one . . . Hamas is a wing of the Muslim Brotherhood responsible for murdering Sadat for daring to make peace with Israel],
2 –> the flotilla knew about it, were intent on running the blockade, were warned and kept going.
3 –> In particular, the flotilla’s captains were informed that the ships should go to Ashdod, and that the humanitarian supplies would be inspected under their observation and sent to Gaza [which has happened, 20 truckloads then being refused entry by Hamas, on a propaganda point].
4 –> The captains refused, as can be heard in one of the videos.
5 –> That the Israelis chose to use a minimal force approach [boarding with soldiers armed with paintball guns and having sidearms they were ordered to use only in defence of life], and that was enough for five of six vessels.
6 –> On the sixth, they were met by rioters working as in effect a lynch mob armed with hammers, knives, metal rods etc. This culminated in the moment visible in the video below, where a soldier was thrown headfirst to a deck 30 ft below, having been stripped of his defensive sidearm. That gun was apparently then used to shoot two Israeli soldiers. This soldier is apparently one of two in critical care.
7 –> At this point the Israelis — after it seems some forty minutes of the melee — had orders to shoot, and regrettably this led to significant loss of life. Which is being investigated to see what fault lies where.
8 –> The ship was towed into Ashdod, joining the other five.
9 –> Those on board were held, and — it seems apart from some that may be subject to action in a court of law — they have subsequently been deported from Israel.
10 –> 20 truckloads of supplies were duly trucked to Gaza but have been refused entry. (It is to be noted this apparently includes expired medicines and items of equipment etc that routinely are transferred across the border. The issue does not seem to have been real humanitarian relief but the provocation of an incident intended to break a blockade intended to stop a terrorist campaign.)
11 –> In a ratcheting up of the crisis, a second group of ships is in transit towards Gaza, on the same claim of relieving a humanitarian crisis.
____________________
So, while anger at the loss of life is understandable, we need to pull back and recognise that there is much more to the story than meets the casual eye.
Good Day
Dictionary
F/N: A link to a for the record, corrective comment may have gone awry. Good day.
@Bad man
If you were living and remember the 1973 oil crisis you would not say, “It does not make one ounce of difference to me. It does not affect whether I eat sleep work or die.”
What happens in the middle-east has the potential to affect the whole world pal.
@all Israeli supporters
I am not one who believes that the Jews have any God given everlasting right to own or reclaim territory in that region. At the same time I am not against their existence in the region, but they should have respected the 1947 borders as recognized by the UN Security Council. Instead they have encrouched and continue to build more and more settlements on Palestinian land. I also believe that since the old city Jerusalem is of so importance and contention for both sides, Jerusalem should be made a neutral city controlled by the UN Security Council. So here’s my solution which I think is fairest thing that could happen:
1. Israel withdraws to 1947 borders.
2. Jerusalem becomes a neutral city.
3. The new state of Palestine is established.
Glad to see you Dictionary
Your standards of logic coherence and facts in debae is sadly lacking in the routine ramblings of the rabble on BU— and these are folk that are supposed to be litterate and to have ben educated.
Whereas we might not like what is happening, we can tery to ascertain the facts and judge righteously raher than by our emotions or misinterpretations or our biases.
What is clear is that the whole world is against Israel- just as precicted in the Psalms. Knowing this Israel does what it seems best for its people and its survival.
Welcome back Mr Dictionary.
Dictionary,
Welcome back.
Now do not be childish and run off again.
Why not try to be a little less obtuse with more concise posts. It would help to be a little less insulting.
I am sure you would generate a little less hate this way and your interaction here would be enjoyed more by yourself and others.
For a start, stop telling us you are “correcting” everyone. This is an open forum. You are not the teacher, we are not your students.
@Dictionary
You wrote plenty and I didn’t bother to read all (don’t have the time), but you made mention of Sadat’s assasination. So can you tell me who assasinated Yitzhak Rabin in 1995, and why?
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Jihad in humanitarian clothing
06/03/10 at 12:00 AM ADVERTISEMENT As world organizations, nations and international media rally together in their favorite cause célèbre of vilifying Israel the Gaza flotilla attack, the country finds itself again on the defensive, trying to explain to the world why it instituted the blockade of Gaza and what part the terrorist organization Hamas is playing in that blockade.
Hamas’ stated goal is to wipe Israel off the map. In fact, in Palestinian schoolbooks and maps Israel is nonexistent. Hamas has many sympathizers who share its goals politically and ideologically, most notably al-Qaida and Iran. Both are welcomed in Gaza with open arms and are creative in supporting Hamas and smuggling weapons in support of their holy war against the Jewish state. This latest incident, though, sheds light on another ally of the terrorist group, the Turkish-based International Humanitarian Relief Foundation (IHH).
So who are these poor “humanitarian” activists Israel tried to stop on the flotilla?
IHH is an associate of Hamas and a member of the Union of the Good. This Union is headed by Yousef Al Qaradawi, one of the world’s most notorious Islamic terrorists (banned in England and America) and leader of the Muslim Brotherhood. IHH was already involved in the purchasing of automatic weapons from other militant Islamic groups as far back as 1990 when their President Bulent Yildrim was focused on recruiting “Veteran soldiers in anticipation of the coming Holy war [jihad].”
Simply put, IHH is a jihadist group cloaked in a humanitarian outfit. It has played important roles in terrorist operations such as the Millennium bomb plot and has been involved in weapons trafficking.
Israel, well informed of IHH’s background and activities, tried speaking to the group before they left the dock and then again while at sea. In an attempt to avoid confrontation, they hoped to persuade the IHH Flotilla to change direction and dock at the Israeli port of Ashdod for inspection before delivering the goods to Gaza. Israel had nothing to gain from a confrontation – but the IHH did, which explains why its members wrote their wills preparing for martyrdom before departure. As one member of the group put it: “We are going to have one of two victories. We either get to Gaza or get martyrdom.”
These “humanitarians” are jihadists on a mission from Syria, Lebanon, Egypt, Jordan, Yemen, Kuwait and Bahrain. They even brought their young children on board fully knowing that this would produce an international media blitz demonizing Israel and distracting the world from the real story.
The lesson here is that Islamists and jihadists have become masters of media manipulation, a task made easy by the degree of willful blindness, naiveté’, and political correctness so epidemic in the media and among world leaders. They have had decades of practice to learn how willfully gullible much of the Western press is when it comes to their alleged grievances and their claims of victimization – especially when it comes to Israel.
I witnessed this growing up in a bomb shelter in Lebanon watching media reports that never seemed to line up with what we Christians in Lebanon were experiencing at the hands of militant Muslims. I saw this again as news anchor of World News for Middle East Television in the 1980s, as I reported on the rise of Islamic terrorism.
Today, Islamists are emboldened by a U.S. administration that is incapable of correctly defining “jihad” and has made clear by its actions that it sees Israel as the principal roadblock to peace in the Mideast. Islamists expect the very response they are now getting from much of the world community, the media, and the Obama administration in the wake of the Gaza Flotilla incident.
With so much “positive reinforcement,” expect more belligerent acts from Hamas and its friends in the weeks and months to come.
Brigitte Gabriel is a terrorism analyst and Two Times New York Best Selling author of “Because They Hate” and “They Must Be Stopped”. She is President and CEO of ACT for America.org
Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2010/06/03/jihad-in-humanitarian-clothing/print/#ixzz0poZsm12e
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Will our peace prize-winner lead us into a new war
06/03/10 at 1:28 PM ADVERTISEMENT
“During his campaign for the 2008 election, Mr. Obama promised to brand the mass killings genocide.” That’s how the left-wing BBC described one of Barack Obama’s promises in his most successful election campaign of two springs ago. It seemed so easy then to satisfy every group of voters. Everyone, it seemed, was getting in step behind the pied piper.
Now, we see the fruits of that campaign. Or, as the Rev. Jeremiah Wright might say: The Mideast chickens are coming home to roost. Last March, when the Democratic-dominated House Foreign Affairs Committee voted 23-22 to brand the Turks’ mass killings of Armenians a century ago a “genocide,” the Turkish government of today reacted angrily. The Turkish people have been voting for an ever-more alarming mix of nationalists and Islamists.
So much for the politics of sentiment. So much for being—as columnist David Broder recently called Barack Obama—“the Empathizer in Chief.” If you feel every group’s pain, you’re going to be in for some real pain of your own. Here it comes.
Turkey backed a blockade runner, a large ferry boat that could well have included in its capacious hold arms and munitions for the Hamas regime in Gaza. Israel last weekend attempted to enforce their blockade. They wanted only to inspect the ferry’s cargo. The melee on the ferry deck showed “peace” activists attacking the Israeli commandos with sharpened iron bars. When the Israelis fired back, 10 of those on board the ferry were killed.
International condemnation of Israel has been swift. This has followed a UN Resolution over the weekend that called upon Israel to comply with the Non-Proliferation Treaty. Israel. Well, if you can’t get any results from Iran, why not put some extra pressure on your ally, Israel? The Obama administration stood by impotently while this potent anti-Israel resolution passed.
Israel is in graver danger today than she has faced in recent memory. In 1948, when the State of Israel was proclaimed, she was invaded simultaneously by five Arab armies. But, and a most important but, the U.S. stood staunchly behind the infant Jewish State.
President Harry Truman defied his Secretary of State, George Marshall, the man he most admired in the world, to recognize Israel just eleven minutes after independence was declared. That timely demonstration of U.S. support helped avert disaster then.
Twenty-five years later, Israel was attacked in 1973 on Yom Kippur by Arab armies led by Egypt. The initial battles went badly—disastrously so–for Israel. But President Richard Nixon—though increasingly surrounded by the congressional hounds pursuing Watergate convictions—summarily ordered the U.S. military to re-supply the embattled Jewish State.
Many have since written that Nixon’s spontaneous action may have saved Israel at its moment of maximum danger. Surely, the USSR was unwilling to risk a nuclear clash—even with a politically wounded Richard Nixon—over so important an ally as Israel.
In 1948 and 1973, Israelis could at least rely on American liberals to support their claims.
No more. No sooner had the clash on the high seas occurred than liberal blogger Peter Beinart joined the worldwide anti-Israel cabal by posting on “Israel’s Indefensible Behavior.”
We now face a real prospect of a new Mideast war, one in which Israel will be beset by Iran, by Iran’s cats paws, Hamas in Gaza and Hezbollah in Lebanon. Even more menacingly, we could see Turkey—long Israel’s only Muslim ally—join this unholy alliance.
Who is responsible for this serious downward spiral in the Mideast? Who else? When the Obama administration spends its first year “extending an open hand” to the murderous mullahs in Tehran, and when it fails to do anything meaningful to stop Iran’s march to nuclear weapons, when the administration stiff-arms the Israelis, and treats Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu like a pariah for building apartments for Jews in the capital of the Jewish state, the wolves of jihad gather. They scent blood. Will this be one more chapter in the lamentable story of how weak and irresolute leadership leads us into war?
We must pray it doesn’t happen.
Ken Blackwell is the co-author of the No. 1 bestselling book “The Blueprint: Obama’s plan to subvert the Constitution and build an imperial presidency.” He is Senior Fellow for Family Empowerment at the Family Research Council. He serves on the board of directors of the Club for Growth, the National Rifle Association, and the National Taxpayers Union. Mr. Blackwell is a contributing editor for the conservative news and opinion site Townhall.com, and his columns frequently appear in the Washington Times, New York Post, Wall Street Journal and National Review Online. He was a columnist for the former New York Sun. He is a visiting professor at the Liberty University School of Law.
Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2010/06/03/will-our-peace-prize-winner-lead-us-into-a-new-war/print/#ixzz0pobSNZU4
@ Not saved
Everyone on this forum can be a teacher. You can learn a lot from brilliant logic and well researched positions. Sometimes you can learn even more from biased, idiotic or illogical positions and statements.
@ Atman you might be surprised to hear this but I agree somewhat with you regarding your solution . Not 1947 boundaries though.After the 1973 war would be fairer.
The problem is that militant Arabs will never accept this neither will militant Jews and there are many more militant Arabs than Jews. The problem with revolutionaries/Jihadists is that they are reduced to insignificance when the campaign ends. Then power is gone.
Oh and I reiterate unless the world is destroyed what happens in the middle east will not affect whether I eat, sleep, work, live or die. Food grows every day, fish swim in the sea. our coastal waters are still full of life. What happens in the middle east may affect whether I eat Kelloggs or stew potato for breakfast but I will eat and work and sleep and live until God decides it is my time to die.
@Dictionary
What is it about freedom of expression you don’t understand? It seems
any opportunity for the PEOPLE to air its views is regarded as an
alien concept.
All you need to do like others have done is to lay your side of the
argument. Commonsense would support the view that if the Israeli/Arab
conflict was so black and white as you are painting, it would have
been solved a long time ago.
Actually David it is not going to be solved until the Lors returns as predicted because the Arabs are hell bent on destroying Israel.
This seems very hard for the world to see……..but then again that is yet another prediction that is even now being fulfilled.
There will, however, be ushered i a time of “false peace” before all hell breaks loose.
THERE WILL BE NO PEACE UNTIL THE PRINCE OF PEACE COMES
David:
I simply came back to check.
Since you have explicitly addressed me, I will take a moment to respond, before I walk away permanently; having put some corrective truth on record and called for a different tone.
Apparently and sadly, to no effect.
I see that, even more sadly, you are still conflating two very different things: [a] freedom of expression, and [b] defamation and slander. Any lawyer can tell you that when you slip from a to b, you are in a very different game.
Believe it or not, there is a global push that seeks to delegitimise and smear both Jews and Bible-believing Christians. So much so that those caught up in it too often cannot admit basic and simple truth staring us all in the face ;just look at the videos, and contrast the news and commentary over the past few days]. Instead, half truths, baseless assumptions and assertions, outright lies, twisted out of context claims, and worse are too often used to try to push agendas that — by dint of resort to such gutter tactics — plainly cannot stand on their own merits.
Just look at the new atheists in action.
And, the new antisemites.
In the case of BU, freedom of expression, yes; but this does not confer a right to be irresponsible, bigoted, one-sided, biased, and slanderous.
For, as wise King Solomon said so long ago: life and death lie in the power of the tongue.
Let us use the power of communication to build, on truth and with fairness, compassion and even love; not to feed or enable or excuse the monsters of bigotry and slander.
For down that road lie the all too well known and predictable results of hate.
Goodbye, David.
I hope that, one day, BU will do better.
But for now,
Goodbye.
Dictionary
@ HOPI
OFF MESSAGE & JUST IN>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Thought you’d love this ‘ole chap!!!
A New Earthquake Hits Haiti: Monsanto’s deadly gift of 475 tons of genetically-modified seeds to Haitian farmers…
http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=19113
OFF MESSAGE & JUST IN>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
People who use cell phones for at least 30 minutes a day over the course of 10 years have a greater risk of developing brain cancer, according to a landmark study from the World Health Organization.
The chance of developing a malignant tumor is increased by more than a third with prolonged use.
According to the Times Online:
“The outcome of the 10-year Interphone study – the largest of its kind, compiling research from 13 countries – has been eagerly anticipated by both the phone industry, which contributed substantially to its funding, and campaigners who warn of radiation risks from handsets.”
http://vimeo.com/8109152
@Bad man
You and I will disagree on the border issue. UN Resolutions 242 (in 1967) and Resolution 338 (in 1973) speaks specifically to the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war, and the need to work for a just and lasting peace in the Middle East in which every State in the area can live in security. The 1947 borders are legally recognised borders of Israel under UN Resolution 181.
All countries need to have respect for UN Security Council resolutions. Without an international governing body the whole world becomes a free-for-all, go-as-you-please, dog-eat-dog, survival of the fittest, chaotic mess. Guess we could say it’s already that way…but it could get worst.
DAVID@ BU
OFF MESSAGE AGAIN FOR THE LAST TIME>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Thought this would be of interest given the plight of our young people>>>>>>
@Dictionary
Jimmy Carter decries Israel actions on the high seas.
Question: Does that make him anti semic. or an atheist. I remember Jimmy Carter saying that he is born again believing Christian. Seems contary to some of your comments about Christians.
Why is it that Christians believe the world hates Israel?
My questions to Zoe, Dictionary and all the Jewish apologists is simple…..is Israel totally without blame throughout the history of their existence?
Have the done nothing wrong to the Palestinian people?
I personally don’t see it as a case of the world hating the Jews or Christians for that matter. I see it as people condemning injustices and unfair collective punishment of the Palestinians by the Jewish state.
I would like to see Zoe respond to what Atman posted on the betrayal of the Palestinian people by Britain.
The problem is that the Christians have no choice to stand on the side of Israel, otherwise their belief system an all its prophecies will come crumbling down. That is good for them but nonbelievers also have their right to decide for them selves and come to their own opinion even if it is contrary. Such is the world we live in.
Dictionary do not leave. You and I can do battle against these misinformed commentators.
@Technician
You are quite correct with regards to Christian beliefs and Israel. It is obvious that they base their opinions on their interpretation of the scriptures…or how it is was interpreted for them. The rest of us take a more objective view of the situation. I consider myself to be a spiritual person who believes in God and Creation, but I refuse to buy into that crap that says there is something more special about the jews than all the rest of us. Utter rubbish.
Oh boy…Mr AH is claiming to be informed again. LOL
Some salient important facts to be noted, that other ships in the flotilla were boared peacefully by Israeli soldiers, whose plan was to take the ships to the port of ashdod where the supplies they wished to transfer to Gaza would be inspected and if they contained nothing to aid terroism, would be transfered to the people of Gaza by Israel; we now know that Hamas has rejected such, another PR stunt for more propaganda. Only one ship, the Mavi Marmara, decided to make war. They got war, and it wasn’t pretty, but it was necessary. The information below is provided by the Israel’s Foreign Ministry.
1. A maritime blackade is in effect off the coast of Gaza. Such blockade has been imposed, as Isrsael is currently in a state of armed conflict with the Hamas regime that controls Gaza, which has repeatedly bombed civilian targets in Israel with weapons that have been smuggled into Gaza via the sea.
2. Maritime blockades are legitimate and recognized measure under international law that may be implemented as part of an armed conflict at sea.
3. A blockade may be imposed at sea, including in international waters, so long as it does not bar accesss to the ports and coasts of neutral states.
4. The naval manuals of several western countries, including the US and England recognize the maritime blackade as an effective naval measure and set forth the various criteria that make a blockade valid, including the requirements of give due notice of the existence of the blockade.
5. In this vein, it should be noted that Israel publicized the existence of the blockade and the precise coordinates of such by means of the accepted international professional maritime channels. Israel also provided appropriate notification to the affected governments and to the organizers of the Gaza protest flotilla. Moreover, in real time, the ships participating in the protest flotilla were warned repeatedly that a maritime blockade is in effect.
6. Here, it should be noted that under customary law, knowledge of the blockade may be presumed once a blockade has been declared and appropriate notification has been granted, as above.
7. Under international maritime law, when a maritime blockade is in effect, no boats can enter the blockade area. That includes both civilian and enemy vessels.
8. A state may take action to enforce a blockade. Any vessel that violates or attempts to violate a maritime blockade may be captured or even attacked under international law. The US Commander’s Handbook on the Law of Naval Operations sets forth that a vessel is considered to be in attempt to breach a blockade from the time the vessel leaves its port with the intention of evading the blockade.
9. Here we should note that the protesters indicated their clear intention to violate the blockade by means of written and oral statements. Moreover, the route of these vessels indicated their clear intention to violate the blockade in violation of international law.
10. Given the protesters explicit intention to violate the naval blockade, Israel exercised its right under international law to enforce the blockade. It should be noted that prior to undertaking enforcement measures, explicit warnings were relayed directly to the captians of the vessels, expressing Israel’s intent to exercise its right to enforce the blockade.
11. Israel had attempted to take control of the vessels participating in the flotilla by peaceful means and in an orderly fashion in order to enforce the blockade. Given the large number of vessels participating in the flotilla, an operational decision was made to undertake measures to enforce the blockade a certain distance from the area of the blockade.
12. Israeli personnel attempting to enforce the blockade were met with violence by the protesters and acted in self defense to fend off such attacks.
But, the world has bought into the infamous use of Arabic, Islamic ‘Turnspeak’ a cynical twisting and inverting of FACTS, that have been used relentlessly for over 60 years, to vehemently, viciously, and malignantly make Israel look and appear as the aggressor, rather than the victim it is.
Techie ma boy
Re
The problem is that the Christians have no choice to stand on the side of Israel, otherwise their belief system an all its prophecies will come crumbling down.
That is a nonsequitur my friend. Whether believers stand on the side of Israel or not the prophecies with respect to Israel are even now being fulfilled, and will continue to be fulfilled.
And yes indeed “nonbelievers also have their right to decide for them selves and come to their own opinion even if it is contrary. Such is the world we live in.”
Atman
Yes we base our opinions on our opinions on our interpretation of the scriptures…
To say that our position is not objective is a non sequitur also. If you considr our position to be personal or subjective——so is yours. If anything ours is more objective since it is founded on the solid rock of the Word of God.
The Word of God says throughout that Israel were awful sinners who rejected him and whom he would uproot from the land that he gave them. He also promised to regather them to the land.
This happened in 1948, against tremendous odds. And they have maintained thier national identity since
One day soon the WHOLE WORLD WILL STOP TALKING AND THEIR ARMIES WILL MARCH AGAINST JERUSALEM. Then we will see if our interpretation of the Scriptures is correct or not. Be patient nuh? LOL
@Zoe
Nobody is better at deception and lies than the Israelis…they have proven it time and time again. They have resorted to stealing the identities of innocent citizens in neutral countries to carry out assassinations. If you want to believe any and everything coming out of the Israeli Foreign Ministry, you are certainly free to do so.
I suggest you purchase this book and read it: http://www.ostrovskyfineart.com/bookDetails.aspx?BookID=1
Anyone here watched the movie Angels and Demons?
Seems like this situation is following the script to a ‘T’.
@GP….
You said..’That is a nonsequitur my friend. Whether believers stand on the side of Israel or not the prophecies with respect to Israel are even now being fulfilled, and will continue to be fulfilled.
Not trying to be difficult sir but how can a non believer NOT stand on the side of Israel?
Would this not be going against the scriptures as you, Zoe and Dictionary are at pains to explain?
@Georgie Porgie
Let me ask you a serious question: Are you sure that biblical prophesies with regards to Israel naturally unfolded, or are certain events being engineered by man to give the appearance that prophesies are being fulfilled? It seems very likely to me that the British could have given the Jews a home in Palestine with the intention of aiding in the fulfillment of the prophesy. Or was there some other important reason for Britain deceiving the Palestinians and providing a home for the Jews in Palestine?
The problem with our ‘religious fanatical folk’ is that they have a persecution complex. These people are consumed with the concept of being persecuted and made to suffer ‘for his name’s sake’.
As a result, they cherish the thought of being ‘hated’, cursed and ridiculed as it reinforces in their minds that they MUST be on the right track.
Bush Tea hates to be a spoiler (…..nah!! not true, Bush Tea LOVES being a spoiler LOL) but when one manages to become hated and despised because one has become a bully, a tyrant, and a hateful and nasty person (or country), then one is only fooling one’s self about being hated for Christ’s cause.
This is the fundamental error being made by the BU Trinity, by Israel and by many other so- called christians.
Jesus was not “hated and eventually crucified” because he was nasty and unpleasant to neighbors, Romans, Jews or indeed to anyone. Jesus ONLY DID good to those he met.
He had immense knowledge and understanding, and yet tolerated and entertained very common people.
Indeed, Jesus’s only conflicts were with those who purported to know the ‘truth’ but misguided the people; those who were charged with dispensing justice but were crooked; and those who should have known the truth, but had no faith.
Israel is a misguided, lost, nation of arrogant and hateful miscreants.
They may well be God’s chosen people – in which case God must be totally pissed with them….and we can expect that they will suffer appropriate consequences. (because a people ALWAYS get exactly what they deserve)
For those ‘christians’ on BU who have ‘Israel -like’ personalities, by seeking to attract hate and disdain by being rude, abusive and hateful, and by crushing anyone who challenges them- … the Bushman would like to point out the following:
As a ‘christian, you are rather expected to become living examples of God’s character. That character is typified by LOVE. You are supposed to stand for TRUTH, respect, righteousness, peace, and charity.
You are supposed to love those that hate you; to help those that seek to harm you and to pray for those who seek to destroy you.
…..believe me people, you will be shocked at the number of haters who will come after you when your values are honesty. truth and justice.
Israel is intended to be, and can be, a light to the world of the character of God.
Instead, they have trusted in the power of America’s Arms and the ability to destroy any possible challenge to their supremacy.
Fools.
See the text of the Balfour declaration below. The reason given for providing a home for the Jews in Palestine:- “sympathy with Jewish Zionist aspirations”.
Foreign Office,
November 2nd, 1917.
Dear Lord Rothschild,
I have much pleasure in conveying to you, on behalf of His Majesty’s Government, the following declaration of sympathy with Jewish Zionist aspirations which has been submitted to, and approved by, the Cabinet:
“His Majesty’s Government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country”.
I should be grateful if you would bring this declaration to the knowledge of the Zionist Federation.
Yours sincerely
Arthur James Balfour
Very well put Bush Tea.
GP;
Would you consider these cases as examples of prophecies?
A mother constantly tells her son “Yuh wunt hear, you is a good-for-nothing idiot. Yuh gine dead bad”. The son grows up, becomes a gangster and eventually gets killed while carrying out a robbery. or;
“You are bright, you’re a good boy, leave out dem bad boys you want to play with, study day and night and you’ll be a doctor someday”. The mother does her best to minimize the influence of the bad boys in the neighborhood on her son, the son grows up, gets a scholarship, goes to University and eventually becomes a GP.
Do they have anything in common with the prophecies that were drummed into the consciousness of the leaders of the Jews of the consequences of their wicked ways and the eventual fulfillment of those prophecies through the decimation of the Jews by the Romans and their remnants fleeing to all corners of the Earth from the lands inhabited by both them and the Philistines? The Roman’s victory over the Jews was not miraculous. There was some element of self determination. Wasn’t there?
Similarly, The Jews have in the last few centuries used to the fullest their claimed special relationship with God, their usurious monetary practices and other characteristics to cow other nations, especially the US, into allowing them to get away with practices that no other nation could – eg. Check out the USS Liberty affair – All the while using the blackmailing issue of the Revelation prophecies to bring everyone to heel.
It may be possible that we may be rushing headlong into a man made Armageddon. But I think that it will not be caused by a mysterious miraculous circumstance but by ordinary men and women using ordinary nuclear and other nasty new weapons. It might be an armageddon started by circumstances that could have been nipped in the bud long ago if a number of nations had not made choices that were largely informed by supernatural fear of a people who in reality were no different to them and had no greater call on or access to God than themselves .
Science has been responsible for increasing Mankind’s knowledge of himself and his environment, including Space, to unprecedented levels at this time. There is a real possibility that mankind can evolve into what the Jesuit priest and scientist, Pierre Teilhard de Chardin, called Point Omega, I think.
The centrality of the Jews in the narratives of the Old and New Testaments and their exclusion of all others from a knowledge of a Universal God in a world made up of one species of Mankind would seem to have been the catalyst that skewed the narrative to an overwhelming acceptance of the role that the Jewish people will play in a coming apocalyptic armageddon. But does this have to be so or is it so because the Jews wrote the book and not the Africans or the Chinese or even the Arabs (as far as the New Testament is concerned)?
The Earth, like all the planets and moons in our solar system have been hit by large meteors and asteroids causing apocalypses over the eons of existence of this solar system. Another hit might be in the offing but I don’t think that there has to be an imminent Armageddon and Apocalypse triggered by the Jews even though traditional explanations of Revelations suggest such. But I might be wrong.
The facts of this incident is all that is needed to defend Israel. Point by Point as previously presented by Dictionary, and again outlined by Zoe, it is a case that cannot be refuted objectively.
@Zoe,
Does the enforcement of a blockade justify killing?
@BT,
Well said.
@GP,
Now Georgie you see that I reached out to your fellow theologian, but I did not get even a look in my direction?
Techie
Why is it that Christians believe the world hates Israel?
It was predicted
And it is evident isnt it?
I think we should watch and see how the story ends.
‘Thats what I am going to do.
BT all I can say to you with your continued judgemental remarks is that
1 I know whom I have believed and
2 he promised to continue what he began in me
3 YOU WILL NOT BE MY JUDGE AT THE BEMA. How I thank God for that.
You are obviously without sin!
I however am a sinner. ALL Christans are SINNERS!
Atman
Are you sure that biblical prophesies with regards to Israel naturally unfolded, YES
or are certain events being engineered by man to give the appearance that prophesies are being fulfilled NO
Why should they? How could they? Do they have the power?
Can you give us the history of the Palestinians?
Can you tell me of their occupation ofthe land since AD 70?
Frankly I really have no intention in getting any debate on this matter. So I will end here by saying that I will watch and see.
I hold the Biblical view. You dont. and you have that right.
For what ever reason, the Word teaches that what is happening now would happen. That is my understanding. Whether the Jews are good bad right wrong up or down the predictions seem to be under fulfillment.
The players predicted to be in charge at the end appear to be taking thier places. You believe what you think. And I have explained where I stand.. Be good
Georgie,
“What is clear is that the whole world is against Israel- just as precicted in the Psalms.”
+++
Since 1949 aid by the US to Israel has reached over $100 billion
Since 2007 it runs at about $3 billion per year.
Its about $2.8 billion in Obama’s 2010 budget
With “hate” like that who needs love?
Not Saved
I do not have answers to your question or to many other questions. I am in my little corner looking foward to see what will happen. Thats all.
The most I am willing to say is that according to my understanding of the Word, that we seem to be approaching the eschaton. At that prospect I rejoice greatly.
Good thing the whole world is against them, I shudder at what it would be like if the US were for them.
@ BU FAMILY
Galatians 3:29 poignantly remind us that if we TRULY* believe in CHRIST – then we are ALL* ABRAHAM’s SEED* (i.e. JEWS – spiritually and in every other Biblical sense)…
The real question (and not the DECEPTION*) I am reading on here about a nation of people called Israelite [JEWS] (dimensions of which far exceed even our own understanding of social anthropology, forensic paleontology or the modern science of gene pools)…
(IF*) this issue is BIBLICAL* (which I would like to believe it is – and not some sociological agenda inflicted on since the late 1940′s [a topic for another day] ), then there is a lot of mis-contextualization, mis-ontological as well as mis-epistemological info squirting all about the place…
I was recently looking at the discourse on whether the “JEWS ARE GOD’S CHOSEN PEOPLE” – and it is shocking the amount of hyperbole that’s written, flaunted and flashed about on this issue especially within so-called religious circles (forget the academic maelstrom)…
BUSH TEA* (the infamous Bushman LOL) hit the nail correctly in his post earlier… His eloquent “rant” was beautiful (if I may so myself), elucidating the real issues which we must face in regards to this AGE-OLD*(LOL) volatile subject… Something for which they will be no consensus regardless of who says what…
GOD HAS NO MOST FAVORED NATION STATUS FOR ANY OF US – (let me qualify myself here) UNLESS WE CAN TRULY* ACCEPT THE MAN* CALLED CHRIST JESUS (that applies to so-called Jew & Gentile alike – sinner or so-called saint)…
BIBLEINFO* has a wonderful piece on this question – maybe this is the common ground we need???
http://www.bibleinfo.com/en/content/are-jews-gods-chosen-people
Adrian (and others):
I passed back briefly to see how things had got on, and saw your plea.
I respect what you have tried to do to put a bit of balance into the thread, and will respond to you, reluctant though I am. (And I intend that this will be final, finis. End.)
I appreciate your concern and spirit.
However, if you go back to last November on, you will see how, on invitation, I took time to exchange with many of the hot commenters in this thread, and the balance of the resulting involved exchanges is plain: they did not and do not have the substance on the balance of the merits — on topic after topic, consistently — to back up their claims.
But, sadly and revealingly, they were too often only too willing to embroil others in a pattern of distractors led out to strawman distortions laced with poisonous ad hominem denigrations and outright demonisation [e.g. think of how a legitimate state enforcing a blockade in a condition of war by asking that claimed humanitarian supplies be trans- shipped though a port where they can be inspected for contraband, is being labelled as pirates above . . . ]; which they then lit up, triggering a polarising, confusing, atmosphere poisoning and clouding rhetorical conflagration.
Which, in a more or less unmoderated blog, soon leads to utter breakdown of civility. (And that is why I have pointed out that the right to self-expression is balanced by our duty to accuracy and to fairness. Even — especially — when we are vexed by evident outrage on what seems to be blatant atrocity; for we live in a world where artful propaganda exists. [Recall: "never lash or slap a child in a fit of temper . . . "])
Having shown the balance on the merits on the underlying, root issue: addressing the agenda of attempted de-Christianisation — look here please, esp sections A, B, F (very relevant to what is going on in this case) and G — I concluded enough had been done and the point of diminishing net returns had been reached.
I came back to this thread, after first communicating and pleading with the blog owner, simply to put something balancing on the record for those who really don’t know where to turn to find out the rest of the story.
(BTW, the post I linked above is now updated to include 7 videos, and has also been updated with a response to a key analysis by a retired British Marine experienced with piracy and terrorism, that shows that the jihadis expected that the Israelis would be primarily armed with paintball guns and used those out-of- place life jackets and face masks we see to fend off the paint balls. (I now suspect they intended not only mayhem with blunt instruments and knives, but hostage taking to trigger a crisis, with “friendly” cameras by the dozen already on board. [Onlookers, research on the jihad of the tongue and pen, after reflecting on this current blog review of a key book.)
So, Adrian, please consider the present matter, the post above, and the plain evasions of its import as the proverbially famous slice of the cake that has all the ingredients in it.
For, if those who are ever so plainly so hot to accuse and de-legitimise Israel cannot fairly and squarely face the basic and videotaped facts on a current case as listed above, but insist on ranting and raging, distorting and distracting, that tells us -- sadly -- that they have been manipulated into a well-known state of mind where rage displaces concern for truth or fairness and distorts judgement. (Pardon a 101 aside: As the ghost of Socrates warns us, this state of induced, enraged blindness has been aimed at by cynical rhetoricians ever since Aristotle warned in The Rhetoric that our judgments when we are pained and hostile are not as those made when we are pleaded and friendly.)
Therefore -- and, onlookers and participants, pardon if this is painful -- until there is a fair-minded willingness to face and appropriately respond to the evident facts in this case and change minds in light of what those facts reveal, there is little hope that the rage-blinded will address the wider Arab-Israeli dispute objectively, in light of the relevant history.
[And, kindly note on a strawman alert: I am not at all suggesting that the Israelis are paragons of sinless perfection. A read of Ezekiel 35 - 39, the prophetic backdrop for all this that is going on, will tell us better! Follow up my discussion in the main paper that appends a counter-balancing summary of the history of modern Israel to see more details, starting from the sins of Abraham, and BTW including a discussion on Galatians 3 on how the blessings of Abraham, through the Seed of Abraham, are now accessible to ALL nations through the gospel -- without need to resort to so-called replacement theology..]
No wonder, when Jesus responded to the Disciples’ question on the signs of the end times, he began: “Watch out that no one deceives you . . . “
A word to the wise is sufficient, as my mom used to ever so often quote the Greeks.
Ah gawn . . .
Dictionary
PS: IYI, onlookers, here is my summary on handling media spin tactics. (Adrian, please use this link to follow up the contact on the home page, to email me.)
Well said, Bushman, but I fear you are bashing your head against a (separation) wall.
The following article is taken from TPM and again I say “well said”. Pardon the insertion in the penultimate paragraph…couldn’t help it.
Lying About The Gaza Flotilla Attack
by M.J. Rosenberg – June 2, 2010, 10:08PM
It’s been one lie after another in the US media about the Israeli attack on the Gaza-bound relief flotilla. No matter that the Israeli media views the whole incident as a debacle for Israel, in this country the Israel-can-do-no-wrong crowd is on overdrive defending the operation. As usual, facts don’t matter to them.
Except they do.
The first thing you need to know about the Gaza flotilla disaster is that the intention of the activists on board the ships was to break the Israeli blockade. Delivering the embargoed goods was incidental.
In other words, the activists were like the civil rights demonstrators who sat down at segregated lunch counters throughout the South and refused to leave until they were served. Their goal was not really to get breakfast. It was to end segregation.
That fact is so obvious that it is hard to believe that the “pro-Israel” lobby is using it as an indictment.
Of course the goal of the flotilla was to break the blockade. Of course Martin Luther King provoked the civil authorities of the South to break segregation. Of course the Solidarity movement used workers’ rights as a pretext to break Soviet-imposed Communism.
The bottom line is that the men and women of the flotilla had every right to attempt to destroy an illegal blockade that Israel had no legal standing to impose and which was designed to inflict collective punishment on the people of Gaza. (There is no truth to the story that Israel would have delivered the goods on the ships to Gaza if asked; the Israelis never made that offer and, judging by years of precedent, would have blocked any delivery).
As for the Israeli argument that its soldiers were attacked, that is ridiculous. Israeli commandos were ordered to board a civilian ship in international waters and the government that sent them claims that the resisting passengers attacked them without provocation. This is like a carjacker complaining to the police that the driver bashed him with a crowbar that was under the seat. Neither carjackers nor hijackers should expect their victims to acquiesce peacefully.
Here are the facts about life in Gaza today — facts that only can be changed by breaking the blockade. These data come from the American Near East Relief Association (ANERA), which provides relief to Gazans to the extent permitted by the Israeli (and American) authorities. ANERA is neither “pro-Israel” nor “pro-Palestinian.” It has no political agenda at all. It merely determines what human needs are and tries to respond to them.
8 out of 10 Gazans depend on foreign aid to survive.
The World Food Program says Gaza requires a minimum of 400 trucks a day to meet basic nutritional needs – yet an average of just 171 trucks worth of supplies enters Gaza every week,
Clothes that were held in the port of Ashdod for over a year were released into Gaza but arrived covered with mold and mildew, unusable.
95% of Gaza’s water fails World Health Organization standards leaving thousands of newborns at risk of poisoning.
Anemia for children under the age of 5 is estimated at 48%.
75 million liters of untreated sewage are pumped into the Mediterranean Sea every day – because piping and spare parts are not permitted.
During the 2009 bombing:
More than 120,000 jobs were lost as Gaza’s industrial zone was destroyed… 15,000 homes and apartments were damaged or destroyed… 1/3 of all schools were destroyed.
None of these can be rebuilt, because construction supplies are kept out by the Israeli authorities.
Also, check this out from The Economist. It is a partial list of commodities allowed into Gaza and commodities banned.
So what is the blockade about?
It is not about stopping terrorism. Hamas has repeatedly offered Israel an indefinite cease-fire in exchange for lifting the blockade. And, on a half dozen occasions, Israel accepted the deal but did not live up to its side of it. In fact, the 2009 war began after Israel ignored its commitments under the Gaza cease-fire agreement, continued the blockade, and then provoked the resumption of attacks on Sderot through a series of targeted assassinations of Palestinians (Israel claims that no cease-fire agreement curtails its right to kill any Palestinian it deems to be a terrorist).
Israel asserts that it will not accept any long-term cease-fire agreement with Hamas because Hamas does not recognize its right to exist.
But Israel does not need the permission of anyone — let alone Hamas — to exist. All it needs from Hamas is an end to violence and that is precisely what Hamas is offering, in exchange for lifting the blockade.
This is not to say that Hamas need never recognize Israel. It should. But it is ridiculous to insist on recognition as a precondition for anything. Recognition would be the end result of negotiations, not a precondition for it.
But that is not what Israel wants. It wants to destroy Hamas because it is a terrorist organization. And that makes sense until one realizes that the African National Congress, Sinn Fein, the Israeli Irgun, the Algerian FLN and a host of other resistance movements were called terrorist organizations before negotiations brought them to power. Former Israeli Prime Ministers Menachem Begin and Yitzhak Shamir were both unabashed terrorists prior to their entrance into respectable politics. And so what? If dealing with terrorists — as Israel has repeatedly done with Hezbollah — will help achieve a worthy goal, why not do it? After all, if negotiations fail, one can always walk away.
But Israel will not change its self-defeating policies until we change ours. And there is no evidence that is happening (at least, not until after the November elections, for obvious reasons).
For now, our policies are joined at the hip with Israel’s. We support the blockade of Gaza. We oppose any efforts at reconciliation between Fatah and Hamas. We even back Israel’s opposition to the Arab Peace Initiative, which offers Israel full peace and normalization of relations with every Arab country in exchange for the creation of a Palestinian state in the West Bank, Gaza, and East Jerusalem.
Enough is enough. The Obama administration needs to join the rest of the world in demanding an end to the Gaza blockade as a first big step toward the resumption of negotiations.
The attack on the flotilla was one of the most disastrous blunders in Israel’s history. At last, the whole world sees Israel’s policy of collective punishment for what it is — a means to perpetuate the occupation forever. Only the United States government (along with Dictionary, Zoe and Georgi Porgie) has chosen to close its eyes.
The occupation is killing Israel. Between AIPAC and an American government whose Middle East policies are determined by campaign donors, Israel is in its worst fix ever. On the other hand, Hamas has every reason to celebrate. The only way it can blow this moment would be to resort to terrorism again. But It is beginning to seem that Hamas is smarter than that. And that means trouble for an Israeli government that is stumbling around like a blind drunk. And for its American ally too.
@ AH…
The facts of this incident is all that is needed to defend Israel. Point by Point as previously presented by Dictionary, and again outlined by Zoe, it is a case that cannot be refuted objectively.
Let’s start at the beginning, do you or can you refute the claims posted by Atman about the deception and subsequent betrayal of the Palestinian people by Britain?
There is an old adage…if ya start wrong ya gine end wrong.
Another article to be ignored by GP, Zoe, et al
http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/
@ BU Family
WHILE ISRAELIS KILLS HIS ARAB BROTHER/COUSIN (all Abraham’s seed) and in most cases, the science is astonishing given the DNA genepools where ARAB & JEW are so similar, only one conclusion can be rendered…
HOWEVER – THOSE WITH SCIENTIFIC KNOWLEDGE CAN PROBABLY EXPLAIN ALL THE GENETIC & ANTHROPOLOGICAL FINDINGS FOR US….
Wikipedia finds that in “a study of haplotypes of the Y chromosome, published in 2000, addressed the paternal origins of Ashkenazi Jews. Hammer et al.[39] found that the Y chromosome of some Ashkenazi and Sephardi Jews contained mutations that are also common among Middle Eastern peoples, but uncommon in the general European population. This suggested that the male ancestors of the Ashkenazi Jews could be traced mostly to the Middle East. The proportion of male genetic admixture in Ashkenazi Jews amounts to less than 0.5% per generation over an estimated 80 generations, with “relatively minor contribution of European Y chromosomes to the Ashkenazim,” and a total admixture estimate “very similar to Motulsky’s average estimate of 12.5%.” This supported the finding that “Diaspora Jews from Europe, Northwest Africa, and the Near East resemble each other more closely than they resemble their non-Jewish neighbors.” However, when all haplotypes were included in the analysis, m (the admixture percentage) increased to 23% ± 7%. In addition, of the Jewish populations in this cluster, the Ashkenazim were closest to South European populations, specifically the Greeks…”
PLEASE SEE:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jew#DNA_and_Jewish_interrelationship
Thanks for that posting Inkwell.
It amazes me to read the shite posted as gospel by Zoe sometimes. I bet he will come and say that the report is Arab propaganda. There are so many sites that are neutral, who try to show the world the injustices Israel unleashes everyday on the Palestinian people. No one is praising Hamas, knowing their history BUT the US called for democratic elections and Hamas won. Israel and the USA were not prepared for this even though they were warned that Hamas could win.
What I find disappointing about so called Christians is that they knowingly turn a blind eye to human suffering to justify prophecy, Haiti and New Orleans come to mind. People like Zoe and Dictionary
(GP has ‘abstained’ lol) betrays their Christian values by focusing on prophecy and ignoring human suffering. By their logic, prophecy cannot be changed, I agree BUT human suffering and injustices can by standing up and holding each other accountable for their actions.
ASHKENAZI JEWISH GENETIC DISEASES:
NEW YORK METHODIST HOSPITAL* offers carrier screening for the seven inherited diseases that are most prevalent among Ashkenazi Jews….
See –
http://www.nym.org/For%20Patients%20&%20Families/The%20Institute%20for%20Family%20Care/Ashkenazy%20Jewish%20Genetic%20Disease.asp
A WHITE OWN & CONTROLLED WORLD IS STILL TRYING TO MAKE US BELIEVE (brainwashing) THAT A SEMITIC GENTLEMAN CALLED “abram” FROM THE MESOPOTAMIAN VALLEY OF IRAQ (A BLACK MAN) TRANS-MORPHED 4000 YEARS LATER INTO MICHAEL JACKSON WITH NO HELP FROM HIS GP…
Come on folks!!!
No wonder the human race is BLIND*, POLARIZED & IGNORANT – ever learning CRAP* but never coming to knowledge of what TRUTH* is….
C’mon guys!!!!
Technician // June 4, 2010 at 7:53 AM
@ AH…
The facts of this incident is all that is needed to defend Israel. Point by Point as previously presented by Dictionary, and again outlined by Zoe, it is a case that cannot be refuted objectively.
Let’s start at the beginning, do you or can you refute the claims posted by Atman about the deception and subsequent betrayal of the Palestinian people by Britain?
There is an old adage…if ya start wrong ya gine end wrong.
=========================================
Why pick a time that is convenient to your argument? Can’t we discuss the incident that recently occurred?
Ok I will discuss your timeline if you first discuss this incident.
BTW, in the beginning there was no British involvement. In the beginning there was no light, and it is said that the sun never set on the British empire. lol!
Manipulation and deception is everywhere…
Homogeneity (genetically, anthropologically or sociologically) is still hard cheese!!!
If we factor in NOAH* the first human after ADAM* (maybe ya’ll will get that)…
Then where is the EVIDENCE* (empirically & OTHERWISE*) for the claims that my so-called JEWISH* brothers are making???
IT IS ALL A SOCIO-POLITICAL & SOCIO-ECONOMIC CONSTRUCT WITH NO LOGICALLY-LASTING BASIS IN SCIENCE (where the pendulum can swing both ways) OR IN BIBLICAL HISTORICAL EXEGESIS…
But some knuckle-heads would have you believe to the contrary and even argue with their own mothers!!!
SAD!!!
LOL>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
@ AH…
I really don’t see the joke in such an important issue. I also did not seek a time line which favours my views. You can not solve a problem without knowing the cause, even you should know this. Discussing the issue at hand will only lead to more of what is above. I doubt anyway, given you response that you are even serious so forgive me and let’s move on ok.
In March 2003, the Bush administration presented Israel and the Palestinian Authority with a “road map to peace”The very first item called for the ‘Palestinian’ leadership to state that Israel has a right to exist and that the Palestinian Authority will STOP MURDERING Jews. Well, as everyone knows (or should know) – neither will the Arab leadership forswear the mudering of Jews nor do they want Israel to exist.. so neither of these two prerequisites has been fulfilled. Nor have Arab countries stopped their funding of anti-Israel terrorist groups. Nor have the PA leadership with their loyal soldiers done anything to convince people to believe that the PA/PLO was interested in peace. They have said much; they have done HORRORS. Terroism was INVENTED by Arafat and has, since, been exported worldwide.
In addition, what the PLO could not achieve militarily, America is helping them attain through a ‘peace treaty’. In fact, the Oslo accords enabled the PLO to achieve, in one fell swoop, what the entire Arab/Muslim world had failed to attain through many years of terroism and conventional war, namely: the diminution of the State of Israel, and, what appears to be, the creation of a hostile Arab/Muslim state in Israel’s backyard. And here we also had and have, great Israeli leaders helping the PLO establish a military presence right in the heart of the Holy Land – and, mind you, arming them also. Arabs have been following the script; they plan to persevere until Israel is DESTROYED – again, in accordance with the much publicized plans which spelled out clearly in the PLO Phased Plan. The Phased Plan, as the PLO Covenant, has NEVER been repealed and both documents calll for the total DESTRUCTION of the Jewish State. Strategies are revealed in these official documents – and they are being strictly followed by the PA and their cronies. Take a look at a few excerpts from the documents and you will note that the *battle* plans are spelled out very clearly. The Phased Plan Resolution states quite clearly:
“It is impossible for a permanent and just peace to be established…unless our Palestinian people recover ALL their national rights and, first and foremost, their rights to return… on the whole of the soil of their homeland…The (Palestine) Liberation Organization will employ ALL means, and first and formost, armed struggle to liberare…EVERY part of Palestinian territory…(land) will struggle against any proposal for a Palestinian entity the price of which is recognition [of Israel], peace, secure borders…” emphasis added.
Let us recall Churchill reacting to Chamberlain’s Munich Pact with Hilter, as Churchill addressed Parliment.
“You have to consider the character of the Nazi movement and the rule which it implies…There can NEVER be friendship between the British democracy and the Nazi power…which vaunts the spirit of aggression and conquest, which derives strength and perverted pleasure from persecution, and uses, with pitiless brutality, the threat of murderous force. That power can NEVER be a trusted friend of British democracy.” emphasis added.
These same characteristics described by Churchill of the Nazi movement, are shared by the PLO/PA and their terrorist Jihadists. One can NOT negotiate with a power that it pitiless, brutal, and sadistic. World War 11 proved Churchill correct.
The OLO/PA dispatched more than 18,000 of its terrorist-soldiers on a mission to murder Jews, and, as a result, Israel has suffered 25, 375 attacks and nearly 14,000 casualties, just during the 45 months since October 2000. (Report from Shin Bet’s Director to Knesset Foreign Affairs and Defense Committe, ‘Shin Bet Chief Reveals Some Painful Facts of the Oslo War”, http://www.israelnn.com (July 20, 2005). See also http://www.israelnn.com (August 8, 2004). On Augiust 1, 2005, the same source reported the same alarming frequency for the month of July 2005 with nearly 500 terrorist attacks.)
This translates to 20 attacks and 10 casualties daily. The PLO/PA is at WAR with Israel and Israel’s response is to negotiate? The PLO/PA wants every Jew DEAD and Israel’s response is “Please add a little more territory to what we’ve already given you. Will you be our friends now? It’s like trying to placate Bin Laden by offering him some American real estate if he would abandon his life’s goal of destroying America, if he would substitute friendship for hate.
Israel does recognize that the PA has declared WAR on the Jewish State. Israel even refers to this domestic situation as the Oslo War, but, the war is one-sided and the same scene played-out daily. The PLO/PA soldiers attack and Israel threatens reprisals. For nearly 20 years, the same scenario has unfolded amlost daily. Arabs attack again and again, and Israel issues hollow threats again and again.
It is beyong reason that
*A sovereign nation can allow military attacks to go unchecked for so long.
*A sovereign nation can allow casualty figures to increase daily.
*A sovereign does nothing substantial to protect its innocent citizens from harm.
*A sovereign nation can allow itself to be controlled by foreign powers who, in a perverted way of thinking, demand Israei restraint in the face of attacks.
The Israeli government’s behavior is preposterous; it defies all logic. Would America, or for that matter, would any sovereign country have sat there and done nothing while it suffered military incursions on a DAILY basis?
And, yet, the constant, vicious, Arabic, ‘Turnspeak’ inverting the FACTS, blatant LIES, to make Israel look like the oppressor, has worked.
It was the then prominent Arab Palestinian activist, writer, and innovator, Musa Alami, who first said in 1948, “The people (Palestinians) are in great need of a “myth” to fill their consciousness and imagination”
And what was this *MYTH* Alami was talking about creating for the Palestinians? It was the MYTH that they were a ‘people’ who had a national identity in a *State* Palestine…LIE, LIE, and more LIES…!!! I
It is only when one truly understand this *MYTH* that was created by Alami, and then propagated for the next 60 odd years, repeatedly, that the UTTER LIE, ‘end occupation’ ‘settlements’ end ‘Israeli aggression’ masterfully repeated, over and over again, that the majority of the world, DON’T know the facts, end up hating Israel, when the very Arab nations, are the very ones who have disguistingly KEPT their brother Arabs, called ‘Palestinians’ in this mess, by in the first place, (1948) telling them to LEAVE Israel, so she could be DESTROYED, which they could NEVER DO, so keep these Arab brothers in utter subjection, while we continue trying to one DAY, destroy, ANNIHILATE Israel and ALL Jews from the face of the earth.
@All…
Anyone who doesn’t remember the history of this conflict might want to read this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Israel
Personally, I consider it very sad how much injustice, horror and killing happens with the supposed approval (and in the name) of the various God(s).
@Technician
I could not be any more serious. If you do not want to discuss the current situation, then I want to go back even furhter than British involvement. That land has a history way before then.
Maybe the Meso-Americans should rise up against all occupiers throughout the Americas. The caribs and Amerindians against all in the caribbean islands.
@ Zoe…
You really are a true champion of free speech. Praise the Father you don’t live anywhere else…lol.
How could you be so reckless to say one man ‘invented’ terrorism, then exported it?
Let’s see, did Nelson Mandela learn his trade from Arafat (he was branded a terrorist too)?
Did Arafat train the Mossad?
Man you are just frothing at the mouth and chomping at the bit to anything anti Israel…ROFLMAO!!
@Zoe: “Terroism [sic] was INVENTED by Arafat and has, since, been exported worldwide.
I would argue you are wrong here, beyond the misspelling.
There is no internationally agreed upon definition for the word “Terrorism”. From a legal perspective.
A familiar definition is “the threat or use of violence, often against the civilian population, to achieve political or social ends, to intimidate opponents, or to publicize grievances.
I would, however, argue that Terrorism (however it turns out to be defined) has been practised for thousands of years.
While I’m writing, I’m wondering if perhaps a new word I’ve been thinking about might be worth putting forward:
“Fearorism” – A proposed definition: “The use of scare tactics not directly involving violence, often against consumers, to encourage a particular decision to be made or for a product to be purchased. Often used by some to gain political power, and others to enhance profit.
Just putting that out there….
Or perhaps that could should reduced down to be…
Word: “Fearism”
Proposed definition: “The use of Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt (AKA FUD) to influence others.
In the present world order, peace between Israel and Palestine will only occur under one or other of the following conditions. (a) The United States Government sees Israel as more of a liability than an asset in the Middle East or. (b) Iran acquires nuclear weapons.
That is the position as I see it. Nothing that I have read or heard from a variety of sources seem able to change my evaluation.
@Yardbroom: “Nothing that I have read or heard from a variety of sources seem able to change my evaluation.
From what I have been hearing, we should all be prepared for a really big boom.
Not biblical, but nuclear.
Thank the Gods (and think of England)….
@ Christopher Halsall
Perhaps mankind!
@ AH…..
You can’t be serious!!!
I refuse to even debate this with you even further…..what a disappointment you turned out to be*sigh*.
Here I was thinking you were worthy of debate. Have a good weekend sir.
I must say though, I am glad you realise the term ‘occupiers’ in this regard. Since you would have everyone rise up against their ‘occupiers’, what then do you expect the Palestinians to do?
Don’t hurt your head with an answer, I see where you are coming from…..a confused and misguided state of mind….or as Pink Floyd would say…..a momentary lapse of reason…..ROFLMFAO!!!
Techie
I focus on prophesy because there is very little I (OR YOU) can do about the human suffering.
Just as prophecy cannot be changed, it seems that there will always be human suffering and injustices because it is indeed true that the heart of man is deceitful and desperately wicked!
It has always been so, and it will always be so. What are you doing to help the Palestinians man, besides keeping noise on BU?
I am sorry , but I cant do anything either, so I might as well abstain..
@Georgie Porgie
It’s one thing to believe in biblical predictions, it’s another thing to believe that whatever Israel does in these days is right and justified. From all your past comments you have shown that you are fully in support of whatever Israel does. Does the bible say that whatever Israel does in these days is right and justified? The bible may have predicted a series of events over time, but tell me if anywhere it says that God approves the actions of Israel today.
@TMB
Thanks for sharing the clip on 911 – building 7. It contains some of the same info included in another documentary more lenghty and comprehensive documentary entitle “911 – From The Ashes”. ..don’t know if you’ve seen that one but I have it on CD.
Here is a bit more of the historic facts concerning ‘Israel’ vis-a-vis the claim of the Palestinian rights to the Jewish homeland, as taken from “Prophecies For The Eara of Muslim Terror”
INTRODUCING THE PROPHECY OF “THE ONE REAL CLAIM”
A. TWO MUSLIM POSITIONS – The Traditional/Historical & The Current/Revisionist
B. THE ‘PALESTINIAN REFUGEES – A Recent Creation
* * *
A. TWO MUSLIM POSITIONS – The Traditional/Historical & The Current/Revisionist
Arafat so often described Israel as the homeland of the “Palestinian Arabs” that the world has accepted his statements at face value, with out checking for validity. As a matter of UNTIL THE 1960s, the entire world referred to the Jews as the Palestinians. No longer is this the case- highlighting the effectiveness of Arafat and his program of MISINFORMATION. On many occasions Arafat had stated that:
* Arabs had always enjoyed a verdant life in ‘Palestine”, from time immemorial.
*Arabs were the overwhelming majority in the land, from time immemorial.
* “Palestine” has been the Arab homeland, from time immemorial.
*Jerusalem is the third holiest Muslim city.
*Jerusalem was never a holy city for Jews – let alone, a Jewish city. Jews never had a temple there.
*Jews are newcomers to the area.
*In 1948, Jews usurped the rights of millions of Arabs who had been living there, from time immemorial.
*Jews expelled millions of Arabs from the land in 1948 and transformed them into poor, homeless refugees.
*There are nearly 6 million “Palestinian refugees” waiting to return to their homeland in ‘Palestine’, what is now mistakenly called the State of Israel.
These outrageous claims of Arafat have been routinely endorsed by many people. Parroting Arafat, the world pressures the Jewish State to “return” to the Arabs that which is “rightfully” theirs. An entire book is required in order to deal properly with the topics. A book on Biblical prophecies and their application is not designed to deal with these issues in a comprehensive fashion. But since these issues do impact on our subject, we will present a limited discussion, which is certainly in order- a few quotes and comments will hopefully suffice.
At the outset, it should be stated clearly that, prior to the 20th Century, NO visitor to the Holy Land had EVER reported seeing a significant and indigenous Arab population living in Israel. As mentioned, the presence of NOMADS was noted. The presence of thousands of Jews were noted. But no observer ever noted the presence of a large indigenous Arab population there. Simply stated, dear readers, not many Arabs ever resided there on a permanent basis. Certainly, under these ciecumstances, Arabs could never have been historically connected to the Holy Land. Some Arabs did temporarily pass through, some remained for a short period of time as nomads, but the area NEVER sported any Arab or Muslim entity that was connected to the Land. We saw reports from witnesses in different time periods. The Holy Land WAS totally DESOLATE; some nomads and Bedouins lived there and tens of thousands of Jews. Listen to the people who knew best, the people who lived 100-150 years ago, the people who were the witnesses – the presence of an indigenous Arab population was NEVER noted.
Listen to the words of Sir George Adam Smith, author of the 1891 classic, ‘Historical Geography of the Holy Land.”
‘Nor is there any indigenous civilization in Palestine…except that of the Jews who have given to Palestine everything it has ever had of value to the world.”
The chief religious notable in the Muslim holy city of Mecca and the ruler of the Hejaz Kingdom (forerunner of Saudi Arabia), wrote an article describing the nomadic existence of the Arabs and that even the Arab of Palestine;
“…used to leave his country wandering over the high seas in every direction. His native soil could not retain a hold on him…At the same time we have seen, the JEWS from foriegn countries streaming to Palestine…The cause of causes could not escape those who had the gift of a deeper insight. They (Jews) knew that THE COUNTRY WAS FOR ITS ORIGINAL SONS…A SACRED AND BELOVED HOMELAND. The return of these exiles to their HOMELAND will PROVE materially and spiritually an experimental school for their brethren who are with them in the fields, factories, trades, and in all things connected with toil and labour.”
There were NO indigent Arabs in Palestine. The land belongs to the Jews. In those days it was so simple and clear. In point of fact, before the present Arab attempts to INVERT the facts of history, the Muslims leadership who lived in Palestine submitted an official statement to the 1919 Paris Peace Conference, the conference to carve up the Ottomam Empire in the aftermath of World War 1. This was the time to put forth all rightful claims. There would not be a second time. In fact, this was the conference that created the facts for the ultimate creation of 22 Arab countries. This was the conference where Arab leaders declared that they have NO BONDS whatsoever to the Holy Land. Pay careful attention to their words:
“The Arabs who are living in Palestine consider themselves as *Syrians* [and not Palestinians] by national, religious, linguistic, natural, economic, and geographical bonds.” (Statement of the First Congress of Muslim-Christian Associations, February 1919)
These are the words of Muslim leaders in 1919 and these words were presented in a calculated and deliberate manner. The words were prepared carefully in order to introduce the world to official Arab/Muslim doctrine. The statement contains many adjectives and, taken together, they are EMPHATIC: there is NO SUCH thing as a “Palestinian Arab” entity and there is NO Arab or Muslim entity with ties to the Holy Land. True, there were some Arabs who lived inPalestine, BUT, they never considered themselves as Palestinians. They were members of a pan-Arab group and Syria was their homeland. Arabs do voluntarily and consistently asserted connections to Arab lands, but NEVER did they assert ties to the Holy Land. Arabs had always expressed a connection to a truly Arab land – such as Syria. No Arab or Muslim ever felt a connection to the Holy Land; everyone always knew that this region was designated for the Jews – ALWAYS.
As a matter of fact, the 1931 census reveals that the “Palestinian Arabs” reported 23 different native languages and 20 different countries of birth. There is NO Palestinian language, because there is NO Palestinian nation – and there NEVER was. Jews are bonded to Palestine, from TIME IMMEMORIAL, and Arabs and Muslims to Syria, Saudi Arabia or some other Arab or Muslim country. Consequently, the British did not include Jerusalem and the Holy Land in the territories to be assigned to the Arabs. Their chief negotiator, Henry McMahon stated:
“There was no place…of sufficient importance…further south [of Damascus]to which the Arabs attached vital importance.”
In 1937, the British Palestine Royal Commission, far from being a pro-Jewish entity, reported that,
“It is time, surely, that Palestinian ‘citizenship’…should be recognized as what it is, as nothing but a legal formula devoid of moral meaning.”
As late as May 1947 (and long before Arafat’s arrival on the world scene) the repsentative of the Arab High Committee to the United Nations echoed the same traditional Arab position when he officially and formally declared at the General Assembly:
“It is common knowledge that, politically, Palestine IS NOTHING.”
Listen to his words: “Palestine is nothing.” Palestine has absolutely no value or meaning to Arabs. As a matter of fact, historically, Palestine NEVER had its own language or culture. Palestine was NEVER a recognized country and it NEVER had borders and it NEVER was an independent entity- and the Romans named it Palestine, NOT the Arabs. Since the birth of Islam, there was NEVER independent Arab sovereignty in the Holy Land, except for military rule during the Crusades and the nineteen years in recent history under Jordan. As a matter of fact, until the mid-1950s, Israeli Jews were the ones who were referred to as Palestinians.
By the way, did you know that Jerusalem is mentioned as many times in the Buddhist Dhomapada as in the Muslim Koran and Aztec documents? Well, this is only natural since nothing of Islamic, Aztec, or Buddhist significance ever occurred in Jerusalem. Truly, Jerusalem is not an important entity – not to the Buddhist, not to the Aztec people, and not to the Muslims. Understandby, Jerusalem is NOT mentioned in the Koran. Mohammed states that only Mecca and Medina are holy cities for Muslims and that is why Jerusalem isn’t even mentioned in the Koran. On the contrary, the Koran does declare that the Holy Land belongs to the Jews.
“And therefore, we said to the Children of Israel: ‘Dwell securely in the Promised Land…and we (i.e., Allah] will gather you altogether..”
“Bear in mind the words of Moses to his people…”Enter, my people, the Holy Land which Allah has assigned for you.”: (Surah 17:104 and 5: 20-21).
Jerusalen is so important to them, Arabs maintain, yet during the limited time of Muslim control, under the Umayyads or, in our generation, under the Jordanians, NO Arab conqueror ever made Jerusalem his capital, NOR did any Arab or Muslim ever display even the slightest degree of reverence for the City.
There’s plenty of condemnation for Israel’s recent actions pertaining to the flotilla, even from as high as the UN Secretary General who has been asking Israel to discontinue the blockade for a long time now. Since back in August of last year United Nations human rights chief Navi Pillay accused Israel of violating the rules of warfare with its blockade stopping people and goods from moving in or out of the Gaza Strip.
The plain and simple fact is that the blockade is illegal under the Fourth Geneva Convention – Collective Punishment. The problem is that the UN appears to be a toothless organization which is only able to condemn illegal actions, but not able to punish violators…especially when the violators are “big dogs”, or close friends of “big dogs”. It would take God to replace the UN for justice to prevail.
Quite frankly I’m of the opinion that it is the intention of Israel to wipe out the Palestinian people by any means necessary…even if it means by starvation and diseases. Israel’s actions clearly indicate that she is completely against the establishment of a Palestinian state, and she wants to occupy all of the area where Palestinians now reside.
@Yardbroom who wrote:
In the present world order, peace between Israel and Palestine will only occur under one or other of the following conditions. (a) The United States Government sees Israel as more of a liability than an asset in the Middle East or. (b) Iran acquires nuclear weapons.
———————————————————————————————————-
That is how I see it as well Yardy.
@GP….
…..’What are you doing to help the Palestinians man, besides keeping noise on BU?’
Making noise is a start GP, it shows awareness of the injustices being committed.
Similarly, the defence of the Jews by you and others is seen as playing your part as well….ah lie?
The longest journey begins with a step.
Atman
I certainly believe in the predictions of the Bible.
I have never expressed any opinion on whether Israel is right or justified
I have said nothing in the past to lead you to the conclusion that I am in support or not in support of what Israel does or does not do. Check the record!
The Bible has nothing to say about the actions of Israel today or whether or not God approves the actions of Israel today.
You see unlike you, I am not particularly interested in Israel’s actions, or any other nation’s actions except to observe how they seem to be fitting into the predicted scenarios predicted for the eschaton.
I am interested in identifying the ten toes of Neubuchadnezzers image. In identifying the kings of the south , and the kings of the east etc
I leave you guys to rant and rave about contemporary events over which you have no control.
Techie
Re Similarly, the defence of the Jews by you and others is seen as playing your part as well….ah lie?
NOT AT ALL See the above.
It should be interested to see what you guys will say to Zoe’s last post. It is sound historical fact that can not be refuted.
The longest journey begins with a step is a true saying, so enjoy your journey in the coming years, because Israel will not be wiped out.
My only interest now is will the rapture occur BEFORE or AFTER the predicted false peace treaty .
@technician:”Similarly, the defence of the JEWS by you and others is seen as playing your part as well….ah lie?”
F off
BMW (redemption song)
THE PROPHECY OF “THE ONE REAL CLAIM”
The Jewish people base their claim to the Land of Israel on at least *four* major premises. the quintessential proff is introduced first.
Almighty God deeded the Land to the Jews. It is this claim that is recorded dozens of times in the Bible, and this is the basis for their primary entitlement. Proof of the Jewish ownership can been seen in God’s pronouncement that the Holy Land is being given to the descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob after the Exodus from Egypt. There is no stronger proof than Almighty God’s actual gifting of the land to the Jews after the Exodus, as it is stated:
“I give to you and to your descendants…ALL the land of Canaan for an EVERLASTING POSSESSION.” (Genesis 17:8) emphasis added.
However, there are three other claims, but they merely supplement this incontestable proof.
1) The Jewish people have lived in the Land from time immemorial. They have lived in the Land uninterruptedly for the past 3, 300 years.
2) Through the League of Nations, the world recognized “the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine’ and the moral validity of ‘reconstituting their National Home in that country. The word “Arab” or “Muslim” does NOT appear anywhere in the League of Nations mandatory award. The entire Palestine was awarded to the Jews of Palestine, both sides of the River Jordan. Why? Simply, because the world always knew that the entire region belonged to the Jews. Thus, the international community granted political sovereignty and independance to the Jewish people through the League of Nations Mandate, the United Nations Partition Resolution of 1947, and Israel’s being admitted to the UN in 1949; because the FACTS of the Bible and the essentials of history were well,known to all, and the FACTS had always connected Jews to the Land. No other entity is connected to the land in any way.
3) It is critical to note in their 1948 *invasion* of Israel, Jordan conquered and then forcibly *occuppied* East Jerusalem and the West Bank. These territories of Judea and Samaria and East Jerusalem were subsequently freed from Jordan’s bellicose annexation during the wars of 1967 and 1973; always bearing in mind, that these wars (1967, 1973) were STARTED by the Arab nations, Israel simply defended itself in the face of this rampant attempts to DESTROY her. But, it is imperative to note, that, NO nation in the history of the world has EVER returned territory captured in DEFENSIVE wars; otherwise, southwest America would revert to Mexico; otherwise, the entire Middle East would be returned to the Turks. It should be emphasized that NO nation EVER returns territory captured during defensive actions. Even Jordan that invaded Israel for NO justifiable reason in 1948, literally hours after Israel’s declared and ratified Statehood, by the League of Nations, even Jordan was not pressured to release the West Bank and East Jerusalem which they captured in 1948, again, bearing in mind always, these areas of land, the West Bank and East Jerusalem were RIGHTFULLY Israel’s by decree of Almighty God, recognized by the world at large for thousands of years, finally agreed to by the world body, the then League of Nations, and the United Nations. Jordan’s attack on Israel WAS an unprovoked INVASION and NOT an act of self-defense; and STILL the world did NOT demand that Jordan release the unjustly captured territories. Certainly, NO nation in the history of the world has ever had to return their OWN liberated territory to the interloper who seized it from them in the first place (in an invasion). Israel was finally able, in 1967, to free East Jerusalem and the West Bank from Jordans’s belligerent occupation, restoring these areas to their prior status, as Jewish-controlled territory, as had been until 1948. Arabs are hoping that the world has a short memory, when Arabs entirely, falsely, pronounce that the West Bank and East Jerusalem are Arab territory, from time immemorial.
Jews have ALWAYS lived in the Holy Land; even after the Roman holocaust, hundreds of years before Islam even came into existence. From that time forward, for the next 1800 years and under harshesh of conditions and though, at times, few in number; Jews have maintained a dynamic cultural existence in the Holy Land. It is only from the second half of the 20th Century, that Arabs have attempted to INVERT history by claiming that the Land had always belonged to them, and never to the Jews. So, what’s their proof? Are you ready for this? They claim that Mohammed ‘dreamt’ of flying heavenward from Jerusalem with his horse. Mohammmed dreamt- that is proof? A dream is more convincing than the historical varacity of THOUSANDS of years of Jewish connection to the Land, confirming what Almighty God HAD DECREED to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and their descendants as an EVERLASTING POSSESSION? Since when is a fantasy of flying on a horse, better proof than hard FACTS of a Divine bequest, and living in the Holy Land for 3300 continuous years?
In short, the Arab claim of ownership is fraught with utter deceit and lies, Arab ‘Turnspeak’ a nasty, cynical, twisting and inverting of FACTS. But, what is truly fascinating is that this, too, is a fulfillment of Biblical prophecy.
This is only scratching the surface of the historical FACTS, that overwhelmingly support Jews RIGHT to this Land.
@Georgie Porgie
Well let me put it to you this way, you obviuosly believe in and live your life by your interpretation of the bible, and so if you believe that the state of Israel is the Israel that “God will protect” and “WIN ISRAEL’S BATTLE”, then by virtue of your beliefs you are supporting Israel and her actions.
You also say that we are ranting and raving about things we have no control over…and I say that you come across as if you’re dead already. Some of us are still here among the living, caring and hoping for a better world, while you are just pre-occupied with the “second coming”. Hope you’re not disappointed.
‘To say of what IS, that it IS; or, of what IS NOT, that IT IS NOT is TRUE.” (Aristotle, Metaphysics 1077B 26)
The structure of JUSTIFICATION, warranted credible truth, in defending any propositional TRUTH claim, IS *coherence* coherence IS our sole criteria for TRUTH!
The facts, re the Jews, and their nation of Israel, Biblically, and, confirmed by the veracity of historical evidence, simply cannot be refuted or denied by any person who is intellectually honest, and with a willing mind, examine the vast amount of facts and evidence confirming this.
To attempt to side-track the salient facts of God’s Word, the Bible, which ARE coherently attested to by actual history, throughout all ancient civilization, right up until the present time, by asking if God approves of Israel’s actions, one way or the other, is simply a non sequitur, as HE has already declared in His Word, a profound theological study in itself, by His *Unconditional* covenant with them, that He will fulfill His Plan and Purpose, which NO man can frustrate, however devious and sinful they are.
@Zoe
Do the Jews still posses the land deeds that were presented to them by God…and if so are they admissible in a court of law?? LOL
I just wish to present you with this scenario then I’m done with this topic:
Let’s say you and your extended family (50 members) lived on 4 acres of land for the last 30 years, but I am in charge of the land. Then I say to you that I will give you full ownership of the land if you assist me in some other matter and you agreed. Now let’s say that after assisting me in the matter, I approach you bringing with me another man and his family, and say to you that I will give that man and his family (5 members) ownership of 3 acres of the land, and you and your family can live on the other 1 acre. Then I say to you that the reason I’m giving him 3 acres is because his ancestors owned the land a long time ago and I believe that they had a covenant with God and the land should go back to them. What would your reaction be? Would you walk away with your tail between your legs and say…oh well…sobeit? LOL
Go placidly amid the noise and the haste, and remember what peace there may be in silence. As far as possible without surrender be on good terms with all persons. Speak your truth quietly and clearly; and listen to others, even to the dull and the ignorant, they too have their story. Avoid loud and aggressive persons, they are vexations to the spirit – Desiderata
I just read that 5 of the 9 men shot on the flotilla were shot in the head. Amazing!!!
@ art…..
See David’s post.
Atman
For every fulfilled promise concerning the first coming of Christ in the Bible there are SEVEN concerning the second coming.
Seeing that the promises concerning the first coming of Christ in the Bible were fulfilled exactly as predicted, I have every reason to believe that the promises concerning the second coming will likewise be accurately fulfilled.
And YES. .believe in and live myr life by my interpretation of the bible, and I believe that the state of Israel is the Israel that “God will protect” and “WIN ISRAEL’S BATTLE”, but to say that by virtue of my beliefs that I am supporting Israel and her actions is not a logical arguement it is a non sequitur. There is a fallacy in your arguement..
Is it not true that you are ranting and raving about things you have no control over
LOL I can assure you that I am not dead yet…and that you do not have to die to be part of the rapture as the two proof texts on this doctrine clearly assert (c.f I Cor 15:52 et secq anf I Thess 4:16-18)
I am sorry that you are looking for a Utopia and a better world. You clearly besides not believing the Bible predictions on this score, but it seems that you have also thrown the second law of Thermodynamics through the window also. LOL
I dont think I will be disappointed. After all God wiill be my judge and he is still on the throne; not BU or BT
David // June 5, 2010 at 3:52 PM ;
A truly wonderful piece of Jazz. I’d never heard of this group before but I was entranced listening to them. The Bass guitar and Jazz guitar work was exceptional then the vocalist maintained the high standard followed by the Alto saxophonist who reminded me of a young Bajan saxophonist (surname Brathwaite) who filled in for Arturo Tappin in a Jazz festival in Grand Cayman about 10 years ago.
Thanks!!
But, am I missing something? What is the relevance of the you tube video to the current discussion?
@Georgie Porgie
I was finish with this topic for now but i couldn’t resist responding to your comments.
If you live for God, then His battles are your battles as a follower…and by virtue of this you are a defender of Israel according to your own interpretation of the bible.
We hope for a better world Georgie, but we don’t expect utopia as you put it. We expect people and countries to be punished for violations of law, and we hope that they STRIVE for peace. Live and let live.
When you find out who the kings of the north and south are, and when you know the date of the second coming, I hope you’ll be so kind as to inform us.
@ technician
See my post……
@Checkit-Out
It is about a time out to enjoy the other things life has to offer. Sometimes we get so entwined in both sides of the argument we forget…
I would not wish to condone Georgie P’s reckless scaremongering about the end of world, but if I was to place a bet on it’s imminence or the imminence of god using inside knowledge, it would be better to bet against the world ending as all bets would be off if it happened.
Here’s some advice how to survive the end of world : “The Fittest of the Fittest Shall Survive”
Bush Chemists Meets Culture Freeman-The Fittest
Culture Freeman & The Bush Chemists – The Fittest Version
David;
Thanks. I agree. You should post some more of the same, occasionally.
Kiki
I never said that the world was going to end
I said Jesus would come again soon
The two are not synonomous.
The world will never end Sir.
At man
Re If you live for God, then His battles are your battles as a follower…and by virtue of this you are a defender of Israel according to your own interpretation of the bible.
FALSE I can not fight God’s battles for him Sir
I am not even supposed to fight some of my own battles
( See 2 Chronicles)
I dont hope for a better world Sir. I can see that the world is getting worse. It is not getting better. Anyone can see that.
Re We expect people and countries to be punished for violations of law, and we hope that they STRIVE for peace. Live and let live.
But does that happen?
We expect individuals to be punished for violations of law, and we hope that they STRIVE for peace. Live and let live. But does this happen?
YOu mockingly say “When you find out who the kings of the north and south are, and when you know the date of the second coming, I hope you’ll be so kind as to inform us.”
Would it really help? We know from scripture and we can see that the Kings of the North asre Russia and Iran. Predicted in Scripture. These guys are already taken up their positions.
cHina & japan the kings of the East are already taking up their place.
@Georgie Porgie
Either you are one of those persons who like to be difficult, or you have tunnel vision like a few other people I know. Now let’s say you have a wife and your wife is fighting some form of cancer (God forbid), would not her fight be your fight as well? You don’t have to be on the battle field to support a fight.
And obviously you do not understand or appreciate the value of hope. Wonder where we black people would be today without hope and determination. Seems like your perscription for problems is to lay down and just wait to die. LOL
Try reading this book:
http://www.ontheissues.org/audacity_of_hope.htm
Many do not know what the Bible, God’s Word says about HIS promises to His people, and what Biblical prophecy says about Israel and her Capital Jerusalem; the least of these not being Isaiah 62. The article below cites some modern day historical and political facts re Israel’s right to exist, and to maintain sovereignty over her land that should be respected, even by those who are not believers.
Isaiah 62
Assurance of Zion’s Salvation
“For Zion’s sake I will not hold My peace, And for Jerusalem’s sake I will not rest, Until her righteousness goes forth as brightness, And her salvation as a lamp that burns. The Gentiles shall see your brightness, And all kings your glory….I have set watchmen on your walls, O Jerusalem; They shall never hold their peace day or night. You who make mention of the LORD, do not keep silent, And give Him no rest till He establishes, And till He makes Jerusalem a praise in the earth.”
RIGHT IS RIGHT – THE FACTS SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES AND ARE QUITE CLEAR—
Here are overlooked facts in the current & past Middle East situation. These were complied by a Christian university professor:
BRIEF FACTS ON THE ISRAELI CONFLICT TODAY…
It makes sense and it’s not slanted. Jews and non-Jews — it doesn’t matter.
1. Nationhood and Jerusalem: Israel became a Nation in 1312BC, two thousand (2000) years before the rise of Islam.
2. Arab refugees in Israel began identifying themselves as part of Palestinian people in 1967, two decades AFTER the establihment of the modern State of Israel.
3. Since the Jewish conquest in 1272 BC, the Jews have had dominion over the land for one thousand (1000) years with a continuous presence in the land for the past 3,300 years.
4. The only Arab dominion since the conquest in 635 lasted no more than 22 years.
5. For over 3,300 years, Jerusalem has been the Jewish capital. Jerusalem has never been the capital of any Arab or Muslim entity. Even when the Jordanians occupied Jerusalem, they never sought to make it their capital, and Arab leaders did not come to visit.
6. Jerusal is mentioned over 700 times in Tanach, the Jewish Holy Scriptures. Jerusalem is not mentioned even once in the Koran.
7. King David founded the city of Jerusalem. Mohammed never came toward Jerusalem.
8. Jews pray facing Jerusalem. Muslims pray with their backs toward Jerusalem.
9. Arab anb Jewish Refugees: In 1948 the Arab refugees were encouraged to leave Israel by Arab leaders, promising to purge the land of Jews. Sixty-eight percent left (many in fear of retaliation by their own brethren, the Arabs), without ever seeing an Israeli soldier. The ones who stayed were afforded the same peace, civility, and citizenship rights as everyone else.
10. The Jewish refugees were forced to flee Arab lands due to Arab brutality, persecution and pogroms.
11. The number of Arab refugees who left Israel in 1948 is estimated to be around 630,000. The number of Jewish refugees from Arab lands is estimated to be the same.
12. Arab refugees were INTENTIONALLY not absorbed or intergrated into Arab lands to which they fled, despite vast Arab territory. Out of the 100, 000,000 refugees since World War 11, theirs IS the ONLY refugee group in the world that has NEVER been absorbed or integrated into their own people’s lands. Jewish refugees were completely absorbed into Israel, a country no larger than the state of New Jersey.
13. The Arab-Israeli Conflict: The Arabs are represented by eight separate nations, not including the Palestinians. There is only one Jewish nation. The Arab nations initiated ALL FIVE WARS and LOST. Israel defended itself each time, and won.
14. The PLO’s Charter still calls for the DESTRUCTION of the State of Israel. Israel has given the Palestinians\s most of the West Bank land, autonomy under the Palestinian Authority, and has supplied them.
15. Under Jordanian rule, Jewish holy sites were descreted and the Jews were denied access to places of worship. Under Israeli rule, ALL Muslims and Christian sites have been preserved and made accessible to people of all faiths.
16. The UN Record on Israel and the Arabs: Of the 175 Security Council resolutions passed before 1990, 97 were directed against Israel.
17. Of the 690 General Assembly resolutions voted on before 1990, 429 were directed against Israel.
18. The UN was silent while 58 Jerusalems synagogues were destroyed by the Jordanians.
19. The UN was silent while the Jordanians systematically desecrated the ancient Jewish cemetery on the Mount of Olives.
20. The UN was silent while Jordanians enforced an apartheid-like policy of preventing Jews from visiting the Temple Mount and the Western Wall.
Ed. S. Alster.
NO LIE, is of the TRUTH. TRUTH is the ultimate certitude; regardless of who ever DENIES this reality; Truth, does not need anyone’s approval or acceptance, to be Truth. Reality is synonymous with Truth; and Truth is unyielding, one can choose to ignore it, scorn it, or even curse it, but all to no avail; in the end Truth impassively stands its ground in the face of the most overpoweing emotional, verbal, and vicious onslaughts.
Reason is necessary for Revelation to be coherent. The historic FACTS re Israel and its sovereignty over this land, for over 3,000 years, IS COHERENTLY established; only those who are blatantly, intellectually DISHONEST, and down right illogical and incoherent, cannot, or have chosen NOT to think critically, no cogent thought whatsoever!
@ Zoe
Why don’t you stop your rantings and ravings nuh?
Who in their right minds can seek to justify the kinds of things that the Israelis have been doing these last 20 years?
Which God do you know of, that call for evil to be repaid with evil? even if your ‘historical’ facts are correct, does the God that Jesus claim to represent call for ‘his’ chosen people to repay evil with greater evil?
Who can be representing a God of love- and treating Palestinian men, women and children as they are being treated now in Gaza?
Even If the Israelis are somehow ‘chosen’ does that justify their current behaviour? Do you think that they are the first chosen group to have betrayed the sacred trust?
…or that they will not pay the appropriate price…?
You need to stop abusing those who rightly condemn Israel’s actions. You too, should be standing for righteousness and justice, not supporting your religious kin at any cost.
@ ZOE
You cited 20 points by Mr. Alster…
You also cited the prophet Isaiah chapter 62…
In the same book of Isaiah 60: 6,7 the prophet speaks of the future glory of JERUSALEM***:
The prophet says:-
“The multitude of camels shall cover thee, the dromedaries of Midian and Ephah: all they from Sheba shall come: they shall bring gold and incense: and they shall shew forth the praises of the Lord.. All the flocks of Kedar shall be gathered together unto thee, the rams of Nebaioth shall minister unto thee: they shall come up with acceptance upon mine altar, and I will glorify the house of my glory.”
FIRST OF ALL MY DEAR BROTHER – what do you understand (in context) the prophet is alluding to?
I know to ask the average Christian to explain these two verses and let’s go as far as asking the average pastor or minister to exegete this piece of Scripture based on the contextual relevance upon which the prophet Isaiah was speaking – most of them would be either lost or would be in a quandry to come up with even a satisfactory meaning.
I await your response!!!
Atman
No friend I think that you misunderstand me.
Your analogy does not address the issue at hand here.
I dont think that God expects me to fightt HIS battles.
In due course God will intervene in the dispute under discussion to end the conflict.
I believe that he has allowed Israel to survive thus far since they have returned to the land. I do not think that they could survive otherwise.
There are times in the lives of individuals when God fights our battles for us, but I dont think that I am capable of fighting God’s battles. I can only fight on his side.
I do know that one does not have to be on the battle field to support a fight.
Re And obviously you do not understand or appreciate the value of hope.
Have you heard about the BLESSED HOPE? Actually the word hope (elpis = assurance) and has nothing to do with hope in the way we tend to use the word “hope” Hence believers sing BLESSED ASSURANCE JESUS IS MINE. Because the Scritures teach that HE is our hope!
Re . Seems like your perscription for problems is to lay down and just wait to die.
Not at all true. In fact I dont expect or plan to die! That is how strong my hope is! NOw you will call me fanatical and crazy. Its just a matter of faith, man
Die my fiend? That is the last thing I will do! (Hope you got the pun Lol)
Zoe
The points that you have cited can not be refuted.
Why is it that Arabs do not absorb the Palestinians in ther larger land mass?
That to me is a logical and reasonable question that can easily be answered by logical educated people who purport to have, and operate with the uncommon commodity call common sense.
Would it not be abhorrent if dear old Bim refused toi absorb Bajan refugees to its shores, would it not?
In 2005, the week before Katrina, we saw Jews forcefully ejected from thier homes in the Gaza strip. Tell us what has happened to those homes five years later.
Many folk here who are very vocal, are neither interested in what the Bible says about how the story will end; nor are they interested in the historical facts or when these facts are presented to them attempts are made to distort or disregard or dismiss them as a rant.
On BU BS reigns. Logic facts knowledge truth etc has no weight. When the herd has a bee in its bonnet, bias kicks in, and everytghing else goes through the window.
If I have a few minutes I post a little something for the fun of it, but I dont waste my time seeking to convince anyone on BU about anything. I read and observe and laugh.
At man
this was the verse I was thinking of this morning
2 Chronices 20:17
17. Ye shall not need to fight in this battle: set yourselves, stand ye still, and see the salvation of the LORD with you, O Judah and Jerusalem: fear not, nor be dismayed; to morrow go out against them: for the LORD will be with you.
Here good King Jehosaphat was basically told. Cool it my som I will fight this on for you.
If God is the father of all then why would he chose a race of people above another as
“chosen”. That is a bunch of racist garbage. No wonder we of the human race is so confused. The relgious propagandist need to stop interperting the Bible in ways of alienating one from another
If God is good he would choose people to do what is good and righteous and that should be including all of mankind. You mean to say that with all the billions of people on the planet God would overlooked all of us for just one group that sounds like a maniac and some one who is hell bent on seeing the destruction of man as is evident now , No need to read prophercy to understand that the god as described by the religious right is destructive. I
@Georgie Porgie
Man you are incorrigible…lol. Anyway, you and Zoe have reminded that it makes no sense debating anything to do with religion. So putting the bible aside for a moment, do you have any personal opinion regarding the actions of the Israelis toward the Palestinians and the recent flotilla incident?
Ignoring the arguments for both sides it is hard to fathom why passengers onboard the ship would have required 4 bullets to have been shot into their bodies by hight trained
@ David….
If you remember Rachel Corrie, then this revelation should not surprise you.
Georgie Porgie // June 6, 2010 at 8:33 AM
I never said that the world was going to end
I said Jesus would come again soon
———————————————————-
will he have the same christian name again?
ac // June 6, 2010 at 6:00 PM
If God is the father of all then why would he chose a race of people above another as “chosen”.
————————————————————————————————–
I think God meant his “favourite” people i.e. those who follow their own star
Q If God is the father of all
John 8:44 & 1 John 3:9-12 etc and several other Scriptures would indicate that although God is the CREATOR of all he is not FATHER of all.
If God is GOD then he has every right to chose who ever he wishes. doesnt he.
Two men graduate from Medical school. Both become Gynaecologists. One choses to be a Herod and slaughter the innocents and becone very rich. The other refuses, and just gets by. Why doesnt God intervene?
Why does he let sinfull men scoff at his Word and his Christ, and seemingly get away with it?
The human race is confused because they chose to be. The state of the human race is well described in Romans 1 very vey clealy from verse 18 on.
No one interprets the Bible to alienating one from another. That alienation is to be expected can be traced throughout Johns gospel from chapter 1-11 in the believe/recieve – reject/unbelief paradigm.
John 1: 10-13
10. He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
11. He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12. But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13. Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
Re If God is good he would choose people to do what is good and righteous and that should be including all of mankind.
God has given men the choice to do good or evil, righteousness or unrighteousness.
He has allowed men to accept his Word or reject His Word.
He has allowed men to believe him by faith, or not believe
Re You mean to say that with all the billions of people on the planet God would overlooked all of us for just one group
NO the Scriptures says that CHRIST DIED FOR THE SINS OF THE WHOLE WORLD
After the failure of Adam and the failure of Noah and the failure of THE NATIONS AT BABEL, GOD CHOSE A MAN TO START A RACE TO DO A JOB FOR HIM
THIS RACE FAILED COMPLETELY AND THEY HAVE BEEN JUDGED SEVERELY AND SDEVERELY PUNISHED
This is history
Re that sounds like a maniac and some one who is hell bent on seeing the destruction of man as is evident now , No need to read prophercy to understand that the god as described by the religious right is destructive.
This is erratic emotional diabolical diatribe.
There are two choices as declared in John . YOU BELIEVE OR YOU REJECT
THOSE WHO BELIEVE THINK ONE WAY
THOSE WHO DONT BELIEVE THINK ANOTHER WAY
Believing does not make that person mad or stupid.
Unbelieving makes unbelievers just unbeleivers.
Believers have every right to believe, as unbelievers have every right not to believe.
Atmam
Re Man you are incorrigible…lol. Probably
Re Anyway, you and Zoe have reminded that it makes no sense debating anything to do with religion.
I dont know about that. Many believers and theologians have meaningfdul debates about the Bible
I am not putting the Bible aside for a moment
My personal opinion regarding the actions of the Israelis toward the Palestinians and the recent flotilla incident, is not relevant, in my view. It will not change any thing either here or there or in the air!
You have your understanding of the conflict and how things should go, and you are entitled so to do. I have made my contribution to inform the readers about the Biblical perspective. Readers can believe or reject or scoff etc.
Reported in the media…….
“Israel acknowledged Sunday that it edited recordings of what it said were anti-Semitic and anti-American radio calls by pro-Palestinian activists who tried to run the Gaza blockade and that it could not identify the origin of the broadcasts.”
+++
So Mr Dictionary what do you have to say to that?
“just look at the videos, and contrast the news and commentary over the past few days]”
is what you told us.
But is seems the IDF has resorted to “gutter tactic”
Seems your idolised IDF who can do no wrong in your eyes has made a fool of you.
LOL
@ I aint getting into any theological discusison, BUT your statement ‘The human race is confused because they chose to be’ is IT!!!!
We see this daily among our peers, among family and friends, in politics and in international politics.
We see friends fall out over nonsense, family fall out because of greed, money (something that you cannot take with you when you pass), we see voters elect politicans based on promises that they *know* will not be fulfilled, we see the lies and deceit in international politics.
Yet we say each day ‘let’s do better’.
I agree, we cannot, because essentially there are elements in mankind that are evil, greedy, nasty, despicable, vindictive for no good reason.
I have seen it myself and do believe that some are just born that way and are a part of the ‘whole’ of mankind.
Paul McCartney and Steveie Wonder ‘There is good and bad in everyone’ ‘but the part ‘we learn to live we learn to give what we need to survive’ does not count for some.
Some have more eveil than good. That is why the world is up the crrek.
And, all that is leading to is that one day, the lunatics are going to blow mankind to bits.
At least the Earth will survive, even though mankind would obliterate that too if it could.
You all do realise, that for example, *IF* Israel moved out of the Middle East (as an example), that the confrontations would then change to the ‘Shia’s vs Sunni’s'?
All because as GP says, mankind CHOOSES it like this, because no amount of argument or rationalisation can explain the idiotic behaviour of mankind, as a whole.
Onlookers:
I have, on months worth of evidence, utterly given up on many habituees of BU being concerned over truth, balance and fairness.
I have however decided that some reference points are advisable for those few onlookers who want to learn some balancing truths and to be fair minded.
In this, I must first pause to give a link to the unedited exchange between the relevant vessels in the May 31 flotilla and the IDF navy. It will be seen that the IDF excerpts linked previously in my own blog cut out not just squelching noise etc, but also the worst part of the retorts from the blockade runners, i.e references to “go back to Auschwitz,” which IIRC was responsible for the deaths of ~ 1/3 of all Jews murdered in the holocaust. This underscores that the true motive of the flotilla was to break a blockade against smuggling weapons to the Hamas, on the excuse of a grossly exaggerated humanitarian situation in Gaza. A Hamas that still embeds a religiously motivated call to genocide against Jews in its charter. The objector above should be ashamed of his behaviour, but by now it is plain that we are dealing with willful hardness of heart that refuses to be corrected by mere inconvenient facts. Yes, the exchange was edited, to focus on the central part: refusal to do a simple, reasonable thing if humanitarian supplies were the main concern. The Israelis were kind enough to cut out the insults and hateful remarks. And, for that they are being blamed!
Sad, and sick.
In general this thread above showed a deep-rooted unwillingness to correct initial hostility and slander in light of evident facts. And, the tactic of going to ever wider circles of hostility laced strawmannised accusations simply shows the uncivil pattern of distraction, distortion, demonisation and polarisation that I have had to point out and call for correction of; for months.
For those serious about balance, fairness and truth:
1] Background on Jews and Judaism:
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/index.html
2] Correctives on many turnabout accusation-laced propagandistic myths on the Middle East:
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/myths2/mftoc.html
3] Correctives on the current flotilla brouhaha:
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Society_&_Culture/flotillatoc.html
A word to the wise is sufficient . . .
Goodbye.
Dictionary
“The idiotic behaviour of mankind ” can be explain because of lies and deceit being told to us by those who are in control of what we see and hear . AS evident here we have people telling us that a race of people are God’s chosen people’. but do they really understand what that mean.? or are they interperting that in a way which intself is predjuiced and that can only breed hate and voilence
Anyone can post selective clips, highlighting extreme positions.
Stand back from the polarised hyperbole and ask are they treating our neighbours as they themselves would wish to be treated?
Are they happy with the result?
Yet again BU is being accused of being anti-semitic and some among us have indicated that they will be writing to WordPress to express their concerns. What BU has been nonplus about is to read the comments on BBC, NYT, CNN and many of the world’s leading websites. The comments expressed make BU look like a Sunday School. Again we say to those people, BU is a vehicle for freedom of expression, let all views contend. Sometimes we don’t get it right but that manifestation would be reflective of the fact we are not perfect. The subject of Israeli Arab relations has been a challenging one for the world and one understands the fundamental differences and BU understands why the subject is an emotive one. To those who are sensitive on the issue understand that it is an emotive subject.
Is it (a) God’s Will, (b) Coincidence or (c) Just ironic that the corrupted capitalistic economic power system of control that was historically based on slavery and life servitude and total domination by the children of colonialism has fallen down and utterly failed in present recent times.
Mikey Dread – Voice Of Jah
Damian Marley- More Justice
Bunny Wailer – Didn’t you know
Damian Marley- More Justice
Culture – See Them a Come
@ BU
It is so easy to talk about Ashkenazi Jews being murdered in concentration camps in the last century but what about the conservative figure of 40 MILLION + BLACK FOLKS* who were systematically raped, pillaged, enslaved, starved, maimed, brainwashed and murdered for just being people of color, chattel property, sub-human species, animals, apes, gorillas & monkeys –
Where is the rancor and undiminished fervor?
But we find that the so-called “intelligentsia” want to sit up here and elsewhere defending a bunch “paleskins”, “rednecks”, “religious & political demons” who frankly could care less about the plight of people of color – more than that would like to paint a picture of on-going victimology where “BROTHER KILLS BROTHER” in an incendiary frenzy blaming it on ideological factors exacerbated by so-called religious zaelotry and extremism…
Who in HELL* are we fooling?
I thought we defended “righteousness” and abhorred “gross iniquity”…
This is not a “SPIRITUAL” debate – this is demonic gimmickry and mimicry at its highest!!!
Both Ashkenazi & Canaanite Arab MUST* stand down….
And the “yardfowls” and “hecklers” on the sidelines should put down their placards and go on home…
The one issue many of us refuse to discuss is the so-called “ROADMAP”…
ANNEXATION* is NOT* a viable option for the so-called “powers” that be because the idea of peaceful co-existence runs counter to the historical legacy of “bloodletting” that occurred so many centuries before and it certainly does not fit into the agenda of the “Illuminati”…
Rachel Corrie, and her association with the *Left’s* unholy alliances, actually made her the poster child for the *Leftist” pursuit of martyrdom, literal suicide for an unjust cause.
Yes, many such like, as Corrie was, turned out to be cowards and ran away the moment they realized their lives were at risk. But, some did not, their desire to put their own lives at risk for ‘the idea’ animated them at least in part. This tradition has been carried on faithfully by the International Solidarity Movement (ISM), a leftist organization whose activities flock to Palestinian territories to INTERFERE, often violently with Israeli military activities. They *intentionally* put themselves in harm’s way in order to obstruct the efforts of Israeli soldiers to fight Palestinian terrorist.
It was Rachel Corrie, a twenty-three year old activist from Olympia, Washington, she was accidentally crushed to death in March 2003, when she tried to obstruct the path of an Israeli bulldozer that was preparing to demolish the house in Rafah where she was lodging. Like her ISM colleagues, she was KNOWINGLY abetting terrorist. A few months earlier, when Palestinian militants seized the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem, it was ISMers who smuggled food for them. Many of the homes in Rafah rested atop a network of ninety tunnels that were used for smuggling weapons from the Egyptian border to Rafah. It was, therefore, impossible for Corrie and her ISM comrades to have lived in Rafah and NOT witness the activity connected with these tunnels. That is why the bulldozer was in operation; the Israelis were trying to interrupt this tunnel activity. Israeli professor and journalist Steven Plaut has expilicitly called Corrie’s death a suicide.
And, now we have a ship named after her! Interesting, isn’t it?
Re “The idiotic behaviour of mankind ” can be explainED because of lies and deceit being told to us by those who are in control of what we see and hear
“The idiotic behaviour of mankind ” is due to the fact that it is true as the Bible teaches THE HEART IS DECEITFUL & DESPERATELY WICKED
This deceit and wickedness in man is inherent and intrinsic as taught particularly in Romans 5. This inherent and intrinsic causes men to accept or reject the truth and to decide for themselves what they wish to believe and accept and how they act.
The Bible teaches that the Jews are God’s chosen people. This is the basic concept in the unconditional Abrahamic covenant. This is one of the most important concepts in Scripture which comes to its final and fullest explanation in Galatians 3; that through the Jews i.e via Christ that all the world will be blessed.
This concept has been understood and believed by sound sensible sane students of the Scriptures for several generations. It has never bred any hate or violence among the masses of the world throughout the centuries.
What seems to be misunderstood or not accepted is that Hamas or Arabs or “Palestinians” or Muslims (what ever one chooses to call them) are practicing the religiously motivated call to genocide against Jews in its charter. The irony of it all is that all of these folk are very closely related to the Jews- they are all descendants of the children of Abraham by his bond servant, Hagar, and his second wife, Keturah. It is most important to read Galatians 3 and see what God says about the issue.
That is what counts for me. Others who discredit the Word, or chose not to accept it by faith, and/or lean to their own understanding or otherwise apply what they call “common sense” obviously think differently, as is their entitlement. But we can be at variance without being illogical or ignorant of the clear and relevant history or the clear teaching of the Word of God.
The above post is my prose– obviously
DAVID @ BU
“The subject of Israeli Arab relations has been a challenging one for the world and one understands the fundamental differences and BU understands why the subject is an emotive one…”
David my dear BRUV*, the problem is historical….
The issues are current and contemporary….
The analyzes have been “poor” and the vision of those who claim to be enlightened – erroneous to say the least… deceptively evil at worst!!!
First I would like to thank all of the contributors who does tell Barbados that the ‘Ashkenazi Jews are fake Jews’. I does thank them but it still does be hard to understand how my grandmother in cold Russia could have been a brown-skin woman. I feel Terrence could explain how this Jewish brown skinned woman get there. I was always told that the flight of the oppressed Jews of this group came north from Israel, but of course Terrence does know much, much better than me. So I thank he for telling me who I supposed to be.
G_d bless those who does tell the truth
I does thank those who does use a 5 year old You Tube of 2 drunk adolescents to justify why Jews cannot be any good, even though I posted a video upstairs saying I did not wish to be ‘chosen’ but to be considered ‘different’ due to my Judaism.
All through this blog you does see and remember when some of these people does slip and refer to the Israelis as **the JEWS**.
I does always remember who these people are.
Because I am a Jew.
So, when people look and refer to Jews, let them look here. You want an example of a Jew? Here is one. I’m the Jew, look at me working for good.
When I see someone refer to JEWS in a broad and racial way I become very angry, and I point it out. And other groups as well.
When people blame the JEWS for economic troubles I does see de lies, I does hear lies,
and when I hear lies I does know lies.
Them does lie because they want to see dem beat Israel. I feel they don like Jews too, cozen they does let it slip all the time. I see it, don lie to me now and say no.
But I does pray to G_d, not for someone’s victory, but for peace for all of our sakes.
I does pray for peace for all everbody sake, including the Muslims.
But not de extremist who want to kill de JEWS, he don pray so
Not the turkey who get reject from EU and now want to be a Iranian
and not yuh all who does hate we and does slip and let the words drop out
Dem want to control we
Dem want to radicate we!
When I see irrelevant video of 2 drunkards I don’t go at YouTube to look for ammunition
I does see rallies where 10,000+ angry men does shout ‘KILL the JEWS’, all dressed up in green (Hamas) or all dressed up in yellow (Hezbollah);
I don’t try to remember that the little boy school books does say ‘KILL the JEWS’;
I does try to forget that in some of the temples they does preach ‘KILL the JEWS’.
I does try not to worry that Iran says Hezbollah and Hamas are the 2 arms of G-d that will “crush the Zionist pigs”.
and make the land the way it is destined.
No. I does try to live with my brothers (and sisters) and make a peaceful life on this island. I does try to be good and big up de place- I does do things saying to myself, “Do the right thing boy- heal this land”.
But it does surprise me when I understand that a lot of yuh all does hate we and that some does make education towards it a full-time occupation.
I already watch nuf of Terrence posts and I does see that in each one he does infuse snips of hatred and miseducation against Jews and some lies that he does like to try to get people to believe. And so in the last thread I did trying to ignore when he said we was usurious and evil again; and that Jews had stolen gold and stashed it in Vatican. He does like to pretend that he does like we, but then admit to the extremist he believe: ‘U R right’…
Verily, when I see that he lies did posting right next chronologically to this thread I had was to wonder why David did do it so. I trying to tell he now, so that he would please to try and remember to edit lies against we in future, and to read some of this conspiracy stuff that does have in hate towards Jews.
Anyhow, wunnah give me a big back-ache and a pain in my neck. Wunnah got me like I can’t do my own good work.
I see on the video upstairs at top that dem fellahs from Turkey trying to kill the Israelis with bats, sticks and knives, and they get shoot.
Now you hear Iran and Turkey want to send warships. Is war?
I does try to help Barbados; sometimes I does feel like stopping when I does read yuh all, but I realise and still hope that most people ain’t so focus on the hating side of life. And I does try.
Wunnah pun a mission. A lot of people does get turn off.
I come up by being taught to do the right thing. I cyan change that. I would always try to heal the world wherever I go. Wunnah like too much hating and fighting amongst yourselves but you ain doing nothing for the good of Barbados.
@ David Spieler
“I feel Terence could explain how this Jewish brown skinned woman get there. I was always told that the flight of the oppressed Jews of this group came north from Israel, but of course Terence does know much, much better than me. So I thank he for telling me who I supposed to be…”
AGAIN (for the record), YOU GUYS GIVE ME WAY TOO MUCH CREDIT!!!
A lesson in anthropology and transmigration geography seems in order when the FACTS* become blurred and we see ONLY* what we want to see…
As the ‘ole cliche goes – there’s none so BLIND than he who REFUSES* to see…
To many who do NOT* have the intestinal will it’s all too often a Sisyphean task…
But one important question before we begin to look at the FACTS* -
WHAT ETHNIC GROUP (or better yet – what color folks) LEFT EGYPT AFTER THE DECADES OF SOVEREIGN RULE OF JOSEPH (the prince of Egypt) AND A SUBSEQUENT 200+ YEARS OF CAPTIVITY & TYRANNY BY A NEW PHARAOH?
Be careful how you answer!!!
But if there is any “HONESTY” in the world (and I still have “some” faith in human nature – though small) I would like to believe that you good folks can see the trees from the forest…
To add a slight addendum – when Solomon, (Israel’s greatest and wisest king) said and I QUOTE -” I AM BLACK AND COMELY”; was he being ethnically and anthropologically correct or was that a “GAFF” we could ignore?
YOU DECIDE!!!
Anyone who want to argue that “Paleskin” Jewry is NOT* a modern construction – just like “RACE”, IQ and all that other stuff we deem so scientific absolute – I have some bricks I need made out of straw…
The historical record shows that the Sephardim are the Jews of the Mediterranean Basin – Spanish, Italian, Portuguese (the genealogy of MY* Great*, Great* Grandmother*), and later Dutch and English Jews – who have diluted their Jewish blood with Latin and Nordic races by cross-copulating/marrying to such an extent that Gentile characteristics now predominate…
They can usually be identified only by Jewish names – if they have not changed them – or by the Jewish temperament as it exercises in times of crisis or vicissitude…
Sephardic Jewish men have clean-chiseled Grecian profiles and lips while Sephardic women are dark-eyed, curvaceous and strikingly beautiful…
The Ashkenazi Jews, on the other hand, are the Russian, Polish, or German Jews – in other words, Mongoloid/Caucasoid Jews – who were swept into Asia and Europe when the Assyrian king “scattered” the Northern Tribes and replaced them with Gallic peoples brought down by him from the Danube Valley…
The Ashkenazi Jews are possessed of the “schnozzle” nose, derived from Assyrian inter-breedings, the small round head on the thick neck, and the gross and vulgar mannerisms making them so offensive to Gentiles of reserve and Christians of refinement…
When the Ashkenazi crossed their Mediterranean Hebrew or Sumerian with the Russian, Polish, or German tongues, they got a hybrid vernacular that is called Yiddish…
Generally speaking, it can be said that the great mass of the Sephardim are orthodox Jews, and the great mass of the Ashkenazi are apostate Jews…
The Sephardim uniformly hold that Judaists constitute the devotees of a religion; the Ashkenazi uniformly hold that the Judaists are a race or political unit…
The Sephardim believe in gaining ascendancy over the non-Jewish races by strategy and peaceful penetration; the more or less apostate Ashkenazi believe in going straight to their ascendancy by crack-down and violence…
Thereby do we witness Communism being mainly supported and advanced by Ashkenazi Jews, while the Sephardim behold it in an increasing alarm, sensing that the world’s Gentiles may eventually penalize or exterminate all Jews for the lusts, hatreds, and atrocities of the Communistic Ashkenazi, and they find themselves included…
In the opening scenes in the ACTS OF THE APOSTLES*, we read that on the DAY OF PENTECOST* (the Libyans, Ethiopians, Africans, the Persians were all there – [foreign Diasporic JEWS]) in Jerusalem for the Passover as they heard about Jesus in their own languages and their heart were pricked and they accepted Him as Lord and Saviour.
At the sacking of Jerusalem in 70 A.D.Black Jews fleeing an advancing Roman army swarmed into Africa, making homes among the people already settled there. The story isn’t totally bizarre. The Jewish diaspora is often dated to 63 A.D., when Rome overtook Judea and eventually banned Jews from setting foot in Jerusalem. The dispersal of Judaism was far and wide, spreading as far as Persia and into Europe. There are groups of Jewish Ethiopians who claim to be descendants of King Solomon, but some dishonest scholars have dated their existence only back to the late Middle Ages…
This is the history men refuse to accept because they are deceived and would rather believe a LIE* for the truth…
Sis Nya – Jah Jah Way
(Jah Shaka)
@Terence M. Blackett and David Spieler et al…
Could you please explain, to a simple and stupid Fool…
…why will Israel not “allow” and recognize a Palestinian State?
Has it been considered that perhaps if those displaced, by the unilateral (and possibly unfair) decision of third parties decades ago, have a sovereign home within which to work, live and prosper…
…that perhaps this might go a long way to ending the violence and/or (Gods hope) the hatred?
Sincere questions…
Because, frankly, I simply don’t understand how both sides seem to be so very comfortable with the killing of the other, and the deaths of their own.
Is this a war of attrition?
If so, in who’s name; and to who’s benefit?
The “chosen people” and still they don’t believe in Jesus as the son of God. Either they are right in their believe or christians are wrong in their teachings. Why the two different beliefs. ?
Ah, Christopher. Bless.
Pretty question.
Perhaps you could consider the words of Mr. Roosevelt O. King on this very Barbados Underground blog, on 7 August 2009 at 8:36. If you don’t remember the words, let me remind you.
Mr. King said:
“I sure you are a Jew … Every time you post a message you are traceable down to the street and building you in. I WILL GET YOU. And I don’t waste my time making idle threats.”
(Mr. Roosevelt O. King, Secretary General, Barbados Association of Non-Governmental Organizations [BANGO], 7/8/09)
If the champions of free speech who run this blog censor this comment, Christopher, I will send it to you by a more direct route.
@ CH
“why will Israel not “allow” and recognize a Palestinian State?”
In 1 word – SUBSERVIENCE…(actually that 3 plus a number)…LOL
@Jack Bowman…
You always seem to manifest when difficult questions about Israel come up…
For some reason, you seem to have a hard on about ROK.
For the record…
1. I’m proud to stand (and sit (and fight)) beside ROK, even though I often don’t agree with him.
2. I have yet to hear back from TMB or Mr. David Spieler on my above.
3. As to your previous offer of dinner — thanks, but I don’t swing that way….
@ CH
We all know that worst feuds are FAMILY FEUDS!!!
@TMB: “In 1 word – SUBSERVIENCE…(actually that 3 plus a number)…LOL
I’m not sure I fully understand your answer.
And I’m not sure this is a laughing matter.
Could you please expand your answer?
@TMB: “We all know that worst feuds are FAMILY FEUDS!!!
Yes. I agree with this.
But what if the “FAMILY FEUDS!!!” might take the entire world out because of it.
Come on TMB, quit with the bull shit…
Or is this all a game?
Can some one please explain what were the jews chosen for ?
can west indies win a game against south africa ???
@Mr David Spieler…
Come on, have some balls… Speak your mind using your real name…
Rather than hiding behind aliases….
Y’know, people are fairly easy to ‘rile’.
On this blog subject, it is the ‘Israeli’s vs the Palestinians’.
Ever think of something closer to home, at election time, when it is the ‘….BLP’ vs the ‘….DLP’, but after the election goes on, who wins? Does anything change?
In the Middle East conflict, there is ONE clear winner….the ARMS DEALERS.
As with any conflict, the buggers who sell arms can sit back, read the headlines while their ……bank accounts escalate.
Who do you think uses agents to stir up trouble around the world?
Of course, with the assistance of in some cases idiotic leaders, in others complicit ‘leaders’ (for want of a more appropriate derogatory word), being mandatory.
Quite sickening really.
If anything or anyone eventually judges anyone harshly, the Arms Dealers (Dealers of Death), will be at the head of the line for lashes.
Mr. Christopher Halsall has observations to make on Barbados Underground. All of them are fantastically witty and brilliant, but we can only choose two of them.
Here they are:
1. “For some reason, you seem to have a hard on about ROK.”
2. “I’m proud to stand (and sit (and fight)) beside ROK”.
Mr. Roosevelt O. King (ROK) has many things to say on Barbados Underground. They are all astonishingly witty and brilliant, but we choose to offer two of them.
Here they are:
1. “Let me tell you how sick these women are. Most of them live in states where there are few black people … The mother of one of these girls told me that she was so thirsty, that one day she met a 14 or 15 yr old black boy at the supermarket. She enticed him to go behind the supermarket and did it to him. The next time she went to the supermarket, the young boy brought along a friend and she did both of them. This is a married woman who is in her forties and have been doing this to black men since she was 12 yrs old. Now her 13 and 15 yr olds in the act, sometimes alongside her.”
2. “I sure you are a Jew … Every time you post a message you are traceable down to the street and building you in. I WILL GET YOU. And I don’t waste my time making idle threats.”
All best wishes to you, Mr. Halsall. Nice company you keep.
@Mr. Jack Bowman…
Lets cut to the chase, shall we?
You are too cowardice to step forward with your real name, but for some reason you say we should all accept your claims as authoritative.
If I May, some might consider your claims within the context of “hmmmmm”….
Mr. Halsall,
I want to be clear about something. I want to be categorically plain.
The champions of free speech on Barbados Underground that you laud so much made a day of words disappear: 7 August 2009. Why?
Their efforts at basic English quite literally make me laugh out loud.
But I was threatened in public on 7/8/09 on Barbados Underground by a Barbadian public figure who claims knowledge of child abuse. It matters nothing that the free-speech idiots you laud erased a day. The day exists. The day is banked.
And if anything, ANYTHING happens to me or mine, even to my cat, Mr. Halsall, I offer you a 1000% guarantee that the vengeance of the Lord will descend upon members of the entire “BU Family” with a ferocity that you cannot begin to imagine.
I was threatened in public by a Barbadian public figure who claims knowledge of sex slavery, Mr. Halsall.
Good to know that you’re proud to fight beside him.
All best wishes to you, Mr. Halsall.
@Jack Bowman…
You are blowing shit out of your ass in the above.
You are hoping for fearism, because it is to your advantage…
If you’d like to meet me for a bare fisted fight, please just tell me where we shall meet.
Otherwise please tell my why the taxes for your sail-boat hasn’t been paid for.
Or is this all just a game?
Mr. Halsall has something to say. Here it is:
“You are too cowardice to step forward …”
Did you mean “cowardly”, Mr. Halsall?
Take a minute, take a deep breath, gather your wits, and then give all of us your best shot at a grammatical sentence. Take your time.
I wish you well, Mr, Halsall.
@Jack Bowman: “Did you mean “cowardly”, Mr. Halsall?
No, I meant cowardice.
And I presented you with a challenge.
Care to stand up?
Or are you running away?
Mr. Halsall says, astonishingly:
“Otherwise please tell my why the taxes for your sail-boat hasn’t been paid for.”
I own no sea-going vessels, Mr. Halsall. The only vehicle I own is an elderly Toyota. Perhaps you are confusing me with someone else, for example:
“I sure you are a Jew … Every time you post a message you are traceable down to the street and building you in. I WILL GET YOU. And I-don’t-waste-my-time making idle threats.”
Roosevelt O. King (“ROK”), Secretary General, Barbados Association of Non-Governmental Organizations (BANGO)
on the Barbados Underground blog, August 7, 2009 at 8:36 and 12:09 AM.
@Chris
Don’t bother we all know about those with balls as in no balls who comment to create strife.
Let it go and contribute to some of the blogs on the page or better yet the one about to be posted…lol.
Mr. Halsall asks:
“Care to stand up?”
I care to stand up, Mr. Halsall.
@Jack Bowman: “I care to stand up, Mr. Halsall.
No, you wish to distract.
You don’t have the balls to stand up.
As “David” says, Mr. Halsall: “let it gol”.
Man, I wish I could write like that.
@BU.David: “Don’t bother we all know about those with balls as in no balls who comment to create strife.
But very importantly David, everyone *doesn’t* know, although they should….
@Dictionary,
It seems not to difficult to get you to come running to defend your new best friends. (Yes, those you know that you hated for 1,000 or more years)
Obsession anyone?
You relish in the same “gutter tactics”. You repeat them.
The issue is not background noise. Let me “edit” the report to make it clear…
“Israel acknowledged Sunday that it edited recordings……………………………………..and that it could not identify the origin of
the broadcasts.”
You got that?
Let me repeat.
“IT [ISRAEL] COULD NOT IDENTIFY THE ORIGIN OF THE BROADCASTS.”
But you would have us believe you KNOW it came from the flotilla.
The only thing that is “sick” is someone who believes it is moral and ethical to kill people lest they deliver humanitarian supplies directly to Gaza.
The only thing that is “sad” is the severe delusion of those who believe they know the mind of their invisible gods and are prepared to kill accordingly and condone killing accordingly.
4 shots to the head, defensive right?
And you call me sick.
Who should be ashamed now.
Well, well, well…….the eagle has finally landed, the FOX has finally approached the hen house but let it be known that THERE ARE NO CHICKENS HERE!
A little extract from wiki…
“Writer Edda Manga said five of the activists died directly while the rest died because they were denied medical treatment.[96] Egyptian MP Hazem Farouq,[97] British activist Sarah Colborne,[98] Turkish activist Nilüfer Ören,[99] Al-Jazeera cameraman Issam Zaatar,[97] and Turkish author Sinan Albayrak[100] were also among those who confirmed in their statements that the Israeli soldiers did not allow the critically wounded to receive medical assistance.”
Who should be ashamed now?
And again….
“Turkish autopsy results showed that all of the 9 people shot died of 9mm gunshot wounds, 5 of them from gunshot wounds to the head.[177][17]
The British newspaper The Guardian reported that the activists were shot 30 times in total, with many of them fired at close range, according to Yalcin Buyuk, vice-chairman of the Turkish council of forensic medicine which carried out the autopsies.[178]
Buyuk said that five of the victims were shot either in the back of the head or in the back.[179] “From the analysis of the bullet distance on one of the bodies,” Dr. Haluk Ince, the director of Istanbul’s Medical Examination Institute, said, “the gun was fired between 2 and 14 centimeters’ distance from the victim’s head.”[17]
Yalcin Buyuk said that 48 others suffered gunshot wounds and six activists were still missing.”
The christian right real purpose is getting jews to accept Jesus as the Son of god and in doing so would blindly defend their faults while quoting biblical prophesy.Any reasonable thinking person would see that the act of violence aboard that ship was
unwarranted.
@All…
Just for the record…
Despite all the distraction…
We have yet to hear back from TMB or Mr. David Spieler speaking directly to my questions.
Are they that difficult?
Apparently they are….
I too am anxiously awaiting the responses to CH’s questions.
I have an answer, but it is not one that you will get from the supporters of Israel. The answer is: The Jews want it all, every last, single, solitary square inch of it, and with the help of the USA, they will do whatever it takes to get it.
But the Jews have a very serious problem. If Jesus is the son of God and the Jews are God’s chosen people and the Jews don’t believe that Jesus is the son of God, then God help the Jews, for God would be seriously pissed. You see the problem?
Actually God has a serious problem too. If Jesus is really the son of God and the Jews are really God’s chosen people, and the Jews don’t believe that Jesus is the son of God, what the heck is God to do? You see the problem?
No wonder we have a SNAFU.
Anybody brave enough to explain?
@CH ‘…why will Israel not ‘allow’ and recognize a Palestinian State?”
The most pertinent, relevent, question is: Why will the Palestinians NOT recognize and accept the State of Israel, whose rightful ownership of THIS land goes back to over 3000 years?
The Palestinians, PLO/PA, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran et al, have relentlessly stated that there objective and SOLE agenda, IS to ANNIHILATE Israel from the face of the earth.
What is it, Halsall, that you just don’t get about this?
This occurred in March 2007:
Arab leaders gathering for a two-day summit in Saudi Arabia unanimously approved Wednesday the Saudi peace initiative originally launched in 2002.
The plan offered Israel recognition and permanent peace with all Arab countries in return for Israeli withdrawal from lands captured in the 1967 Six Day War. It also calls for setting up a Palestinian state with East Jerusalem as its capital and a just solution to the issue of Palestinian refugees.
Israel has refused. Israel clearly does not want peace and recognition. Israel clearly wants to hold on to the lands it took in the 1967 war, even though UN Resolution 242, voted for even by the USA established the “inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war”.
Now tell us, Zoe, what is it about this that you do not get?
@ CHRIS HALSALL
“why will Israel not “allow” and recognize a Palestinian State? Has it been considered that perhaps if those displaced, by the unilateral (and possibly unfair) decision of third parties decades ago, have a sovereign home within which to work, live and prosper……that perhaps this might go a long way to ending the violence and/or (Gods hope) the hatred? Is this a war of attrition? If so, in who’s name; and to who’s benefit?”
Chris, I appreciate your questions for the mere reason that you made me go back and read: THE WORLD SINCE 1945 – A HISTORY OF INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS 4th ed. McWilliams W.C & Piotrowski H. (1997) Lynne Reinner Publishers (London) pages 148 -166 which looks pretty much at the questions you’ve posed.
Conclusively based on the OSLO Agreements in the summer of ‘ 93 between Rabin & Ararfat – these 5 points were agreed:
* A 5 year period of limited autonomy for Palestinians in the occupied territories…
* A withdrawal of Israeli forces from Gaza and the Jericho section of the West Bank and the establishment of Palestinian control of internal affairs in these areas (with Jewish settlements there remaining under Israeli control)…
* Palestinian elections in the occupied areas to create a government body to be known as the Palestinian Authority (the embryo of a future Palestinian state)…
* The creation of a Palestinian police force to include former PLO guerrillas…
* Promise of Israeli financial support for economic development of Gaza & West Bank…
This agreement broke the long-standing logjam – however Arafat wanted Gaza, West Bank & East Jerusalem to be part of a future Palestinian state but there was STIFF* opposition from radical elements in both Israel and in the Palestinian community…
Jewish militants who had set up residence in the West Bank city of Hebron (PLEASE NOTE THIS IMPORTANT POINT) which contained the tomb of ABRAHAM*, the revered Patriarch of both Jews & Muslims – came cries that Arafat was still a terrorist and that allowing him to control the West Bank would lead to the extermination of Jewish settlers there and threaten the survival of Israel as a whole…
Hamas however on the other hand, charged that Arafat had obtained precious little in his negotiations and had betrayed the Palestinian cause – hence TODAY* the hardline taken by both moderates and extremists within the Israeli camp…
For a brief period (ISN’T THIS INTERESTING) while HAMAS was trying to ratchet up support through its militant actions aiming to radicalize public opinion both in Israel and amongst the Palestinians – ISRAEL & THE P.L.O BECAME “ALLIES” (strange how political expediency outweighs IDEOLOGICAL, ETHNIC & RELIGIOUS arguments when there is a common cause) each pinning its hopes on the other as they faced the same enemy…
The long standing issue which still blocks a roadmap to peace as Professor Mc’Williams & Piotrowski puts it is the intractable question as to what to do with Jerusalem…
(We will however see what the VATICAN* has in store in that respect!!!) LOL
In February 1994, a US born Zionist Baruch Goldstein murdered 29 Muslim worshipers at the TOMB OF THE PATRIARCH (the resting place of Abraham) in Hebron. Goldstein was a member of an extremist organization whose attitudes were capsulized by a statement a rabbi made in a eulogy to the killer:
“ONE MILLION ARABS ARE NOT WORTH A JEWISH FINGERNAIL”…
In retaliation, in October 1994 a Hamas suicide bomber blew up a crowded bus in Tel Aviv killing 21 and a subsequent rally of 20,000 Palestinians praised the bomber as a martyr…
In Sept. 1996, the said (or should I say current) Benjamin Netanyahu sent a message to Arafat saying that Israel alone is “sovereign in Jerusalem”…
That position has NOT* changed!!!
And so the ARAB- Israeli impasse continues…
Chris, I hope that short historical analysis kinda’ answer your concerns…
Brother Terence, Your blatant, vorciferous, and hate filled diatribe against the Jews and their irrevocable, God-given right to the land that the State of Israel has, is no doubt premised on the erroneous, entirely false, ‘Replacement Theology’ embraced by the SDA, et al churches.
What is common to all these theological systems is they ‘allegorize’ all unfilled Bible prophecies and covenants, especially those that apply to the future descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. They say that the covenants were “conditional”, and therefore were canceled by Israel’s rejection of Messiah, Jesus. They teach that Israel has no future in God’s plan as a distinct people and nation. They teach that the Church inherited all these covenants and promises when Israel rejected their Messiah, Jesus.
In other words, they believe that the Church has now become “Israel” in place of the literal, physical descendants to whom the promises were exclusively made, “Replacement Theology.” Augustine, 5th Century A.D., laid the groundwork for this most unsound hermeneutic. He taught that the Church had become Israel and was now God’s Kingdom on earth. This became the rationale for the “Conquistadors” to conquer and pillage the Americas in the name of the Roman Catholic Church. It was also the philosophy that set up the “Holy Roman Empire” over Europe. This resulted in such shameful astrocities as the Crusades and the Iniquisition. These actions violated the most basic teachings of Jesus Christ. The Knights of Europe, under the orders of the Popes, slaughtered tens of thousands of innocent people, particularly the Jews.
The New Testament Confirms This Covenant with Israel.
In the 1st century Roman Church, some Christians were inclined to turn against the Jews, and think they had permanently replaced them in God’s plan. Hear God’s answer to that error:
“For I do NOT want you, brethren, to be UNINFORMED of this mystery, lest you be wise in your own estimation, that a PARTIAL hardening has happened to Israel UNTIL the fulness [full number] of the Gentiles has come in; and thus all Israel [without distinction, not exception] will be saved, just as it is written, ‘The Deliverer will come out from Zion, He will remove ungodliness from Jacob (Israel).” And, ‘this IS My Covenant with THEM (Israel), When I will take away their sins.” From the standpoint of the Gospel they are enemies for your sake, but from the standpoint of God’s choice they are beloved for the sake of the fathers; for the GIFTS and the CALLING of God are IRREVOCABLE.” (Romans 11:25, emphasis added (vv.26-27 quotes Isaiah 59: 20-21 and Jeremiah 31: 33-34).
The Apostle Paul reveals that the present rejection of Israel is not total, nor is it final. It is only temporary UNTIL the full number of Gentiles are saved. Then he quotes specific promises of God that guarantee that ‘…Israel will be saved when the Deliver [the Messiah Jesus] comes from Zion [in the Second Coming].”
The Epistle to the Romans carefully defines in Chapter Nine that “true Israel” is composed of the physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, who also believe in God’s provision of salvation. They are called “the believing remnant.” As it is written:
“And Isaiah cries out concerning Israel, ‘Though the number of the sons of Israel be as the sand of the sea, IT IS THE REMNANT THAT WILL BE SAVED; for the Lord will execute His Word upon the earth, thoroughly and quickly.”
This erroneous practice of allegorizing these specific promises, which started with the 5th century theologian Augustine, became the foundation of anti-semitism in the Church. Sadly, anti-Semitism spread from the Church to the rest of the world.
Predictions Of Israel’s Second And final Restoration.
The following predictions CUT the heart of the currrent Arab-Israeli conflict. They show that the Covenanted Right to the land, by Almighty God was NEVER revoked. It is STILL binding on the basis of the Divine oath, by which it was originally given. The Muslims absolutely reject this. So the current attempts to DRIVE Israel out of the Holy Land are in direct defiance of God.
Moses, at the end of the same message, made this prophetic declaration:
“When all these blessings and curses I have set before you come upon you and you take them to heart where ever the LORD your GOD disperses you among the nations, and when you and your children RETURN to the LORD your GOD and obey Him with all your heart and with all your soul according to everything I commanded you today, then the LORD your GOD will RESTORE your fortunes and have compassion on you and GATHER you again from ALL the nations where He SCATTERED you. Even if you have been BANISHED to the most distant land under the heavens, from there the LORD your GOD will GATHER you and BRING YOU BACK. He will BRING you to take the LAND thae BELONGED to your fathers, and you will TAKE POSSESSION of it. He will make you more prosperous and numerous than your fathers.” (Deuternomy 30: 1-5 NIV) emphasis added.
Ezekiel also speaks of this final restoration from the worldwide Roman dispersion:
Hear God’s Word:
“This is what the Sovereign LORD says: I will deal with you as you deserve, because you have despised my oath by breaking the covenant. YET I WILL REMEMBER THE COVENANT I MADE WITH YOU IN THE DAYS OF YOUR YOUTH, AND I WILL *ESTABLISH* AN EVERLASTING COVENANT WITH YOU. Then, you will remember your ways and be ashamed when you receive your sisters, both who are older than you and those who are younger. I will give them to you as daughters, but not on the basis of my covenant with you. So I will establish My covenant with you, and you will KNOW that I am the LORD. Then, when I make atonement for you for ALL that you have done, you will remember and be ashamed and never again open your mouth because of your humilation, declares the Sovereign LORD.” ( Ezekiel 16: 59-63- NIV) emphasis added.
Note that God anticipated that Israel would despise His oath and break the Mosaic covenant. He warns that He will discipline them, as they deserve. Yet, despite all they will do, He still promises that He will fulfill to them the Covenant made with their fathers.
(The Everlasting Hatred, The Roots of Jihad, pp.26-30)
Threre IS NO excuse for those who call themselves Christians to deny the clear, simple, literal statements of God’s Word about the Israelites’ Covenant rights. The traditional prophetic view of many mainline churches that are based on unwarranted *allegorical* interpretations of these passages, has caused great chaos and suffering to descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
David Levi and Isaac Da Costa, who were Christian Biblical scholars of the 19th century, clearly point out a great inconsistency in the interpretation of Biblical Prophecy concerning the nation of Israel by the theological systems known as Preterists, Amillennialists, Post Millennialists, et al.:
“What can be more absurd than to expain the prophecies, which foretell thr calamity to befall the Jews, in a literal sense, and THEN those, which bespeak of their future blessing, in a mystical and spiritual sense?”
Institutionlized Anti-Semitism
“The Resurrection of the dead will not come UNTIL the MUSLIMS will WAR with the Jew and Muslims WILL KILL THEM…the trees and rocks will say, ‘O muslim, here is a Jew behind me, come and KILL HIM’ ”
The Prophet Mohammad – From the Hadith, which records the acts and saying of Mohammad- emphasis added.
“The power struggle between Israel and the Arabs is a long-term historical trial. Victory or defeat for us, questions of existence or ANNIHILATION, the outcome of an irreconcilable HATED.” – Al Riyadh Saud, Founder of The kingdom of Saudi Arabia- emphasis added.
“The war is open UNTIL Israel CEASES to EXIST, and until the last Jew in the world is ELIMINATED.”
Hamas Leader- emphasis added.
NOTE: The pre-1967 territory that the Arabs want returned, were ALL part and parcel of the original Balfour Declaration of 1917, AND the boundaries of this new nation were CODIFIED and APPROVED unanimously by the League of Nations three years after the Balfour Declaration. Britain was given the authority over the entire Middle East, from the Mediterranean to the borders of India. Simultaneously, independent Arab statehood was being granted in Syria, Iraq and Saudi Arabia. The land originally given was considerably bigger than today’s Jewish State, even INCLUDING the territories captured in 1967. Evidence shows Arab leaders were initially satisfied with their acquisition and didn’t question the status of the Jewish State.
In a letter to colonial Secretary Winston Churchill from T.E. Lawrence in January 1921, Emir Feisal, the man who had led the Arab revolt, “agreed to abandon all claim of his father to (Western) Palestine,” if he secured Iraq and Eastern Palestine as Arab territories. In fact, Emir Feisal had written, in his own hand, a letter agreeing to exactly this in 1919 meeting with Zionist representative Chaim Weizmann. Furthermore, in an agreement worked out between Weizmann and Feisal, both sides pledged the “closest possible collaboration” and “most cordial goodwill” in detailing the creation of modern Arab states and Israel”
Britain Gives Away 75 percent of Jew’ Mandated Land.
It wasn’t long, however, before Abdullah, brother of Feisal ibn Hussein, decided he should have Transjordan as his Kingdom. He protested to the British who unilaterally decided to CARVE OUT of the new Jewish State, 75 percent of its MANDATED TERRITORY, then known as Transjordan, and hand it over to Abdullah. Abdullah argued the British gave his bother Feisal Ibn Hussein both Syria and Iraq, but gave him nothing. The British Foreign Office quickly scrambled to offer him the MAJOR part of the LAND they were bound by the League of Nations Mandate to give Israel. Recall, this was done on the basis of the fictional T.E. Lawrence story that asserted Abdullah had significantly helped Britain defeat the Ottoman Turks in the Middle East.
When Britain gave Transjordan to Abdullah, it specifically VIOLATED Article 5 of the Mandate given unanimous approval by the League of Nations at the San remo Conference on July 24, 1922. (The Everlasting HATRED, The Roots of Jihad, pp. 191-198) emphasis added.
The salient point to all of this, is, that the land that the Arabs want given to the Palestinians, WAS NEVER theirs in the first place. It was TAKEN over by Jordan in the 1948-49 ATTACK on Israel, just hours after its official Statehood, AND, Israel WON BACK the rights to East Jerusalem and the West Bank, when Egypt, Jordan, Syria et al, viciously launched an unprovoked attack on Israel in 1967, and LOST, so THAT, Israel only regained what was theirs in the FIRST PLACE.
What peace what? The vehement, openly DECLARED intent and agenda, by the Arab states, PLO/PA, Hamas, Hezbollah, Syria, Iran, et al, to ANNIHILATE Israel, offering some semblance of some so-called peace treaty, UTTER FALSEHOOD, lies.
Inkwell, what exactly about these historic FACTS, reality, and utter deception by the Arabs, don’t you get?
Think man, think!!!
Good word Zoe!
You are like a voice in the wilderness.
However, you are doing your job of being a watchman on the wall in clearly teaching the Word as you have done in this post!
@TMB: “Chris, I appreciate your questions for the mere reason that you made me go back and read: THE WORLD SINCE 1945 – A HISTORY OF INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS 4th ed. McWilliams W.C & Piotrowski H. (1997) Lynne Reinner Publishers (London) pages 148 -166 which looks pretty much at the questions you’ve posed.
And I thank you for you doing what you’re doing. Because, frankly, I just don’t understand.
@TMB: “In February 1994, a US born Zionist Baruch Goldstein murdered 29 Muslim worshipers at the TOMB OF THE PATRIARCH (the resting place of Abraham) in Hebron. Goldstein was a member of an extremist organization whose attitudes were capsulized by a statement a rabbi made in a eulogy to the killer:
“ONE MILLION ARABS ARE NOT WORTH A JEWISH FINGERNAIL”…
So, then, from what you claim is true, is it reasonable to argue that the “Muslims” did not initiate this crisis?
Mr. Halsall:
“I sure you are a Jew … Every time you post a message YOU ARE TRACEABLE DOWN TO THE STREET AND BUILDING YOU IN. I WILL GET YOU. And I don’t waste my time making idle threats.”
(Mr. Roosevelt O. King, Secretary General, Barbados Association of Non-Governmental Organizations [BANGO], on Barbados Underground, 7 August 2009 at 8:36.)
I’d like to be able to give you a direct hyperlink to that quotation from Mr. King, but the champions of free speech among the “BU Family” have erased an entire day of the “Family” archives. Not that they’re comical Stalinist dipshits or anything like that, Mr. Halsall. Absolutely not. They believe in free speech just as much as you do, Mr. Halsall.
TB and others
Can I just a little note on this topic here on this note?
Jews are not a race as such, but primarily a covenant people. For example Moses married a black woman. Caleb was ethnically an Edomite. David was part-Moabite. So, Jews have welcomed people of different races into the covenant and the family for 3,500 years.
It is scientifically proven that the stock of Judaism is dominated by common descent from the ancient Israelites, and Jews and their Arab cousins share common genetic ancestors, i.e. there is a genetic Abraham. This has again and again been supported by recent genetic discoveries, which completely refute the Kazar myth:
http://www.jpost.com/HealthAndSci-Tech/ScienceAndEnvironment/Article.aspx?id=177446
New research: One people!
By JUDY SIEGEL-ITZKOVICH
06/04/2010 05:10
Jews the world over share age-old genetic ties.
The Jews have been not only a national and religious group since the 2nd century BCE but also have common genetic links derived in the ancient Middle East despite their dispersion throughout the world, sophisticated genetic analysis based in New York has concluded.
The study, which was published on Thursday in the online edition of The American Journal of Human Genetics, also provides the first-ever detailed genetic maps of the three major Jewish subpopulations – a precious resource that can be used to study the genetic origins of disease in non-Jews as well.
The important study, called “Abraham’s Children in the Genome Era: Major Jewish Diaspora Populations Comprise Distinct Genetic Clusters with Shared Middle Eastern Ancestry,” was conducted by Dr. Gil Atzmon and Prof. Edward Burns at Yeshiva University’s Albert Einstein College of Medicine and Prof. Harry Ostrer of New York University’s School of Medicine. It also included Prof. Eitan Friedman, head of oncogenetics at Sheba Medical Center at Tel Hashomer, and others.
They performed a genome-wide analysis of Eastern European Ashkenazi Jews; Italian, Greek and Turkish Sephardi Jews; and Iranian, Iraqi and Syrian Jews. A total of 237 participants from diverse Jewish communities in the metropolitan New York region, Seattle, Israel, Athens and Rome underwent blood tests. The 237 Jews were included only if all four grandparents came from the same Jewish community.
The results were compared with a genetic analysis of 418 people from non-Jewish groups around the world.
Jews from the different regions of the world were found to share many genetic traits that are distinct from other groups and that date back to ancient times . . . . . .
“Previous genetic studies of blood group and serum markers suggested that Jewish groups had Middle Eastern origin with greater genetic similarity between paired Jewish populations. However, these and successor studies of monoallelic Y chromosomal and mitochondrial genetic markers did not resolve the issues of within- and between-group Jewish genetic identity.”
The new research, however, showed “distinctive Jewish population clusters – each with shared Middle Eastern ancestry, proximity to contemporary Middle Eastern populations and variable degrees of European and North African admixture.”
Thus, this study demonstrates that European/Syrian and Middle Eastern Jews represent “a series of geographical isolates or clusters woven together by shared identity-by-descent (IBD) genetic threads.”
It also disproved claims of large-scale genetic contributions of Central and Eastern European and Slavic populations to the formation of Ashkenazi Jewry.
“This study provides new genomic information that can benefit not only those of Jewish ancestry, but the population at large,” said Burns, the executive dean and a pathologist at Einstein.
“The study supports the idea of a Jewish people linked by a shared genetic history,” added Ostrer. “Yet the admixture with [non-Jewish] European people explains why so many European and Syrian Jews have blue eyes and blond hair.”
@Jack Bowman… LOL…
Why your hard on over ROK?
Might it be in order to distract from serious questions?
Personally, I try to surround myself with those who disagree with me.
I find doing so keeps me alert and aware….
@Georgie Porgie: “It is scientifically proven that the stock of Judaism is dominated by common descent from the ancient Israelites, and Jews and their Arab cousins share common genetic ancestors…
To cut to the chase…
Has it not been scientifically proven that *all* humans descended from the first manifesting humans in Africa?
Mr. Christopher Halsall has a question. Here it is:
“@Jack Bowman… LOL…
Why your hard on over ROK?”
Are you a complete moron, Mr. Halsall? The question has been answered. You can read, correct? You can read my posts on this thread?
Oh, by the way, can I say: “LOL”? Thanks. I’ve never written it before, since it’s so obviously a symptom of a small mind. But now that I’ve said it, it’s kind of liberating in a ZR lesbian immigrant ZR subculture forefather dickhead kind of way.
@Chris Halsall, as I am in a rather quirky mood, even though you have not asked me, I shall answer your two questions posed to others i.e.
”CH-
Christopher Halsall // June 7, 2010 at 3:51 PM
@Terence M. Blackett and David Spieler et al…
Could you please explain, to a simple and stupid Fool…
…why will Israel not “allow” and recognize a Palestinian State?
Has it been considered that perhaps if those displaced, by the unilateral (and possibly unfair) decision of third parties decades ago, have a sovereign home within which to work, live and prosper…
…that perhaps this might go a long way to ending the violence and/or (Gods hope) the hatred?
———————–
On the first question, why should Israel give up land for such, surely it is within the responsibilities and abilities of both the United Nations and the Arab Assesmbly to both create and set aside land for the Palestinian state?
Why does Israel have to be involved, there is no need.
A Palestinian state can easily be created by a parcel of land being allotted by the good Arab brotherhood, kind that I am sure they are, to help their brethren, and taken as such to the United Nations to have the new state recognised.
What is the problem? That this has never been broached or recommended and supported must in of itself give light to the real reason for pushing Israel on the Palestinian cause towit..conflict with Israel.
On your second question ‘that perhaps this might go a long way to ending the violence and/or (Gods hope) the hatred’
The one word answer is simply a resounding No.
That would merely give way to a next stage of violence.
As I said already, even if (for whatever reason), Israel was removed from the Middle East, the next battle would be between Shia’s and Sunni’s.
For now, and evermore on this Earth, they also have a common target i.e. Israel.
The intermittent semantics are irrelevant, the important question is the holistic reason i.e. a rumble.
Dontcha get it?
Mankind loves a rumble!
Mr. Christopher Halsall turns 14 years old and has a challenge.
Here is Mr. Halsall’s challenge:
“If you’d like to meet me for a bare fisted fight, please just tell me where we shall meet.”
(Mr. Christopher Halsall, on Barbados Underground, June 7, 2010 at 6:44 PM).
I suggest the dead centre of the Garrison Savannah at high noon tomorrow, Mr. Halsall (that’d be Wednesday, 9 June, at 12:00).
I suggest rules …
1. Pure bare-knuckle fight, no firearms or manufactured edged weapons.
2. No footwear. All other clothing at the discretion of the contestants but no artificial protection for gonads. We use gedan barai or whatever block is preferred in your discipline, but no manufactured testicular “cups”.
3. Foot-blows to testicles are allowed.
4. No time-out. No water. No rest. Fight ends when one contestant says “uncle”.
5. I am substantially taller than you and I will have to get within you reach, so no biting. None at all. Biting is a no-no.
6. Unlike you, I have a full head of luxuriant hair, so no hair-pulling. None at all.
7. Contestants can invite an unlimited number of supporters to witness the contest. I will bring none. Supporters cannot interrupt the contest.
8. Contestants are personally liable for alerting any necessary ambulance service and for all medical costs.
See you tomorrow at the Garrison, Christopher. Noon. Try not to be late.
Referring to the four shots to the head. You may claim that it was excessive to draw a firearm but once a hand gun is drawn soldier are trained to deliver 2 shots; a double tap to the body or head. 9 people with 30 bullets in them is around 3 bullets each. 4 bullets to the head is simply a double tap by two different soldiers. Several soldiers would have been firing. 3 American policemen once put over 30 bullets in a suspect. 4 bullets in an armed confrontation is reasonable.
I also read up on use of proportionate versus disproportionate force and there are varying theories but the shootings were not regarded as inconsistent use of force.If you stabbed a policeman or beat him with a bat his colleagues would not hesitate to draw and fire. Also contrary to TV ,policemen and soldiers are trained to always SHOOT to KILL.
I am also reliably informed that in the event that two entities are at war as are Hamas/Gaza and Israel, a blockade is a legitimate and legal course of action. Such a blockade is enforceable in international waters.
Israel was stupid in the way that they approached the final boat but I believed they were lulled into expecting pacifism . they should have pulled aside with a warship in broad daylight and boarded with 50 to 100 troops firing warning shots to dissuade resistance. That would have been disproportionate force but it would have justified in line with the theory that disproportionate force is legitimate if used to preclude violence.
Bible thumpers notwithstanding, there is no doubt that the state of Israel has become sociopathic. America must be wondering what it has let itself in for. An American citizen is killed by Israeli commandos in an illegal attack on a civilian vessel in international waters and the American government says and does nothing. What has Israel got on America? An interesting perspective by an American journalist:
Our Enemies, the Israelis
When will we wake up to the threat?
by Justin Raimondo, June 07, 2010
One of my readers, in the comments section below, wrote the following in response to my last column on Israel’s hijacking of the Gaza flotilla:
“Again I ask the question: What do the Israelis have on our politicians that makes them such whores? Dirty pictures? Threats of withholding campaign contributions? It’s really embarrassing as well as infuriating to see congress with its collective pants down around their legislative ankles just waiting for Israel to do it again.”
Not that there’s anything wrong with that …
Well, actually, there is a lot wrong with that, but, in any case, what’s the answer to this question? Again and again Israel has outraged the world, and even many of its most dedicated supporters, by its actions: multiple invasions of Lebanon, “incursions” into Gaza and the West Bank, the ever-expanding settlements, the vicious racism and tribalism that characterizes the present ultra-rightist government of Benjamin Netanyahu, which includes the openly racist and fascist party of the thuggish Avigdor Lieberman – the list of Israel’s sins is a long one, and that’s going back but a few years.
Even when the Israelis blew up a US Navy ship, the USS Liberty, a military reconnaissance vessel that was monitoring Israeli troops movements prior to the Six Day War, Washington went along – in public – with Tel Aviv’s fairy tale claiming it was an “accident.” This disgrace is repeated, today, as the beaten and battered Americans who lived to tell the tale of what happened aboard the flotilla return to bear witness to Israeli brutality. An American citizen is killed, and Washington looks the other way. The ghost of Rachel Corrie is not surprised. Nor am I. Because the Israelis, after all, are our enemies.
Forget the fact that without aid from the US the Israeli settler colony would sink like a stone. Ignore the ritualistic paeans to the “special relationship,” regularly mouthed by politicians in both countries who know their lines by heart. And pay no attention to the propaganda that regularly depicts US-Israeli relations as a mutual admiration society founded on “shared values” and the love of liberal democracy.
Established in the wake of the Holocaust, and created by survivors of that horrific orgy of mass murder, the basis of Israel’s founding was and is the idea that Jews are not safe in this world. Not anywhere: no, not even in the United States. The premise behind this view is that everyone is a potential enemy, to be kept at arm’s length, at best, and to be crushed underfoot, at worst.
The lawlessness and brutality that we saw in the attack on the flotilla is inherent in the nature of Zionism, which, after all, came to birth at a time when the world was rife with nationalism of the most virulent sort. Liberal friends of Israel look on in horror as the Jewish state evolves into a combination of South Africa under apartheid and the new North Korea. Yet ideology has its own inexorable logic: it’s hardly an anomaly that the early followers of Ze’ev Jabotinsky, the leading figure in what is today the ruling party in Israel, were attracted to and full of praise for the “blood and iron” doctrine of Mussolini – and the feeling was mutual. Not for nothing did Il Duce allow Jabotinsky’s “revisionist” faction to set up a training camp in Italy for its naval fighters in the Irgun, the forerunner of today’s IDF.
We’re shocked when survivors of the flotilla attack testify to what happened, and the autopsy reports are coming in: one shot four times in the head, others shot and killed at very close range, execution-style. Yet Israel has shown what it is capable of many times: the hijacking of the Gaza flotilla was just the most recent occurrence in a string of incidents stretching back years: the kidnapping of Mordecai Vanunu, the assassination squads that roam the world in search of Israel’s enemies, the bombing of Western diplomatic and cultural facilities in Egypt to make it look as though the Arabs were responsible (the Lavon incident), not to mention the long history of Israeli aggression against its neighbors and its indigenous Arab population.
These are not the actions of a Western liberal democracy, but of a frenetic and fanatic regime that resembles nothing so much as the legendary Order of Assassins, the 12th century adherents of the Nizari Ismaili Shiite sect whose leaders sent out their murderous minions to dispose of enemies with such deadly effectiveness that their name became synonymous with violent death. Netanyahu is the modern day Old Man of the Mountain.
This role increasingly puts the Israelis at odds with their chief benefactors, the US government, and the political elites of Western Europe. While generally kept under wraps, this mutual antipathy has been on the increase, lately, as the Israelis drop their “Western” mask. The result has been a series of confrontations: the Israeli insistence on building new settlements in defiance of an American-sponsored peace plan, the ambushing of an American Vice President as he visited the Jewish state, the very real hatred for President Obama exhibited by the growing far-right in Israeli politics, and a series of high-profile attempts to penetrate America’s security firewall. To say nothing of the Israeli “art students” who flooded the US in the months prior to 9/11, and the post-9/11 revelation by Fox News – hardly the American al-Jazeera – that, as Carl Cameron put it:
“Since September 11, more than 60 Israelis have been arrested or detained, either under the new patriot anti-terrorism law, or for immigration violations. A handful of active Israeli military were among those detained, according to investigators, who say some of the detainees also failed polygraph questions when asked about alleged surveillance activities against and in the United States.
“There is no indication that the Israelis were involved in the 9-11 attacks, but investigators suspect that the Israelis may have gathered intelligence about the attacks in advance, and not shared it. A highly placed investigator said there are ‘tie-ins.’ But when asked for details, he flatly refused to describe them, saying, ‘evidence linking these Israelis to 9-11 is classified. I cannot tell you about evidence that has been gathered. It’s classified information.’”
If the Israelis are capable of this – standing pat while information they held could have prevented the worst terrorist attack in American history – then they’re capable of anything. And the US government knows it, which is one good reason why we don’t dare cross them, at least openly, unless it can’t be avoided. They can kill Americans, steal our biggest secrets, and laugh in our faces without fear of retaliation – because we’ve nurtured a Frankenstein monster that is perfectly capable of turning on its creator, and doing considerable damage in the process.
Another good reason why we literally let them get away with murder is their political power in this country: the soft underbelly of America’s defenses against foreign incursions is the ability of foreign-backed lobbyists to undermine – and shape – US policy. A long and dedicated state-sponsored campaign to embed their agents of influence at the center of American political and social life has paid off quite handsomely. On the left as well as the right, their partisans tirelessly promote the Israeli government line – and don’t hesitate to rebuke their own political leaders whenever they show signs of straying from the narrow path of righteousness.
And who can blame them? After all, their physical existence, as well as their political independence as a nation-state, depends wholly on the lifeline of American subsidies (a little detail fake “libertarian” Rand Paul seems to have left out of his statement on Israel.)
The martial spirit that infuses Israel’s myrmidons with such passion is born of a sense of embattled isolation pulsing at the heart of the Zionist project. Surrounded by enemies, perpetually in “existential” danger, the Jewish state exists simultaneously as a consummate bully and a helpless victim: thus the odd argument coming out of Tel Aviv that their commandos were brutalized by those nasty, stick-wielding Turkish “terrorists,” who had the temerity to fight back. The Israelis released a video, which dominated the Western media coverage, of those awful Turkish “terrorists” beating commandos, omitting what happened in the moments before – live fire coming from helicopters – and after (nine execution-style deaths, and many injuries.)
To the hard line Israeli nationalist – a disagreeable species firmly in control of the government in Tel Aviv, now and for the foreseeable future – everyone is an enemy, but especially the Americans, who, to be sure, hold the fate of the Jewish state in their unreliable hands. What if, some day, we elect a President with some balls, one unafraid of the Lobby and willing to stand up for America? What if we elect a Congress that isn’t nearly as eager as this one is to kowtow to AIPAC and apologize for Israeli state terrorism? What if, one day, the aid spigot is turned off?
Israel’s national paranoia is not limited to the Israelis, per se, but also afflicts their American amen corner to such an extent that every criticism of Israel is portrayed as an anti-Semitic plot. For example, the above-cited Fox News story is never disputed, or even quoted: it is simply dismissed as vile “anti-Semitism.” Is Carl Cameron – a Fox News reporter once considered friendly to the Bush White House – an anti-Semite? Is Fox News “anti-Israel”? And what about the rest of Cameron’s fascinating and detailed four-part report, which not only avers the Israelis were watching and aware of the 9/11 hijackers, but also exposes an extensive spy operation and systematic industrial espionage in the US?
Disguised as ill feelings toward Barack Obama, the rabid anti-Americanism on the rise in Israel may seem bizarre, on the surface: why hate your best friend? Yet this development is perfectly understandable. How would you like it if your “best friend” supported you, protected you, succored you, and gave you everything you needed and wanted, so that eventually you were lost in his all-encompassing embrace? At some point, if you had any kind of character, you’d come to resent it – and even hate it, whilst hating yourself for allowing it.
The “special relationship” is a poisonous and deeply dysfunctional relationship, which benefits one party at the growing expense of the other. Sooner or later it will end, but how? With an open break, perhaps even a violent conflict – remember how Joint Chiefs of Staff Adm. Mike Mullen refused to rule out shooting down an Israeli jet crossing Iraqi airspace en route to Iran? Or, more probably, with a covert Israeli action of some sinister sort? In any event, you can be sure that Washington greatly fears the answer to that question.
It is interesting to note that 5 boats were boarded peacefully . Another one a few days afterwards. Sticks and metal bars don’t appear by magic. this incident was planned to garner public support against Israel. it should be noted that pacifists like MLK and Gandhi never provoked or staged violent confrontations. They also never carried weapons to their civil protests. Whatever you call those activists on the Mavi Mamara they were not pacifists or humanitarians. I have no sympathy for them.
Even though I believe that Israel is perpetuating an unsustainable and counterproductive blockade those ships were wrong to try and run the blockade. Civilians should not try to conduct what is essentially a military action. Would they try to land a plane with supplies in Tibet or sail supplies and humanitarian aid to North Korea?
@Jack Bowman… “I suggest the dead centre of the Garrison Savannah at high noon tomorrow, Mr. Halsall (that’d be Wednesday, 9 June, at 12:00).
I agree to your challenge.
However, I argue against *any* edged weapons, manufactured or not.
Let us met as men, unarmed beyond our arms.
I look forward to meeting you, Jack Bowman, tomorrow at noon at the Garrison, as a man.
(Spectators welcome).
No, BMSN,
You are wrong. There is no state of war existing between Israel and Gaza. Israel’s status with respect to Gaza is that of “belligerent occupation”, despite the 2005 withdrawal of its military and settlers. Check your sources.
Belligerent occupation is different from a true state of war and does not automatically not confer the technical right to form a blockade.
The Declarations of Paris (1856) and London (1909) laid down most of the modern ground rules for blockades and one provision is that the quarantined area may not extend too far beyond the coast, although the law isn’t specific on distance. Many scholars interpret the language of the London Declaration to limit blockades to the standard 12 nautical miles that define territorial waters.
So for Israel to claim legal right to enforce a blockade 68 miles from the coast of Gaza is wrong on two counts.
Inkwell:
We may disagree politically. but you have my respect for your well researched last posting.
If only others would review the mounting evidence and realise that Mossad, not some Bush affiliated Al Qaeda, are the most likely perpetrators of 9/11 we may cut through this deliberate smokescreen of The War in Terror and realise the terrorists are already on the Hill and they are calling the shots.
☮ + ♥ ➫ ✡ ☩ ☪ ☫ ✟
———————————————————————————————
☣ 2623 BIOHAZARD SIGN
Jackie Maclean woman/man Jack Blowman may be showing signs of being undercover BBW Bajee Blogger Watcher in disguise. he-she is possibly a drag queen and/old flame to create anger hatred or stupid postings to report about.
As he/she BBW seems to hate Jamaican Dancehall Business too I dedicate this link to that wanky skanky biiiittch!! whatever his/her cunting name is (excusez moi français)
Archive for World Cup Football
tagged: Reggae Music, DJ, Dancehall, Disco, London Sound System
@ ZOE
Sorry matey, but what I am alluding to is not diatribe (even if you feel that way)…
I have a right to present a thesis or antithesis depending on the currency of the debate…
I do NOT* have to have AGREEMENT*…
Actually, I don’t expect it – neither do I really care to have anyone agree with me for the sake of expediency or just because they want to for whatever reasons…
Anyway, my dear brother – the discussion has moved to the other BLOG thread just overleaf…
You are welcome to present your arguments…
@Jack Bowman…
I have arranged for a camera crew for our meeting tomorrow at noon at the Garrison.
I hope you have balls to show up.
It doesn’t matter what you’ve arranged, Mr. Halsall. Just be prompt.
@Jack Bowman: “Just be prompt.
Yes! Sir!!!
Jack Bowman is a pig (see below)
Disambiguation Categories:
(*) = I don’t mean
* Miss Piggy, from The Muppets
* Piggy from Power Rangers
* Police Officer / Slave Overseer
Literally I mean Jack Bowman is a pig
(**) =A pig is an even-toed ungulate.
Kiki: You remind me of one of life’s more peculiar moments. A moment in a crowded elevator or room where a completely unmannerly person let’s out a silent fart. A moment when the innocent are left to inhale the noxious fumes and ponder who is responsible.
David: I notice you have not explained/addressed or acknowledged how the quote of ROK’s that Jack Bowman refers to, has simply disappeared. Was it fear of legal action or did WordPress ask you to remove it?
@ Pussy Hole Anon (2)
lets like everything jack bowman said
lets suck up to jack
hatehatehatehatehate
@Jack Bowman: “Just be prompt.
So I was there — 20 minutes early and waited until 1210. Where were you?
While I didn’t actually expect a fight, I was hoping for some serious conversation. I’d also brought a book as a gift.
Oh well…
Prematurely bald short person fails to arrive with camera crew for contest
Where were you, Mr. Halsall? Did the rain put you off? Is rain bad for alopecia and shortness? Where were you?
I suggest Saturday (that’d be 12 June 2010), same place, same time, same rules. Please try to be there this time, Christopher.
I love cats. Here, pussy, pussy, pussy.
@Jack Bowman: “Where were you?
I was there. I have witnesses. And if you were, you would know that the rain stopped at exactly noon, and started up again at 1210.
@JB: “I love cats. Here, pussy, pussy, pussy.
Are you threatening my family now Mr. Bowman?
CH.JB.FYI
The marx brothers play cards for small stakes and french fry potatoes
I got ace of spades
He got ace of spades
That’s waht you coincidences
He’s got thousands of them
@Kiki… ROTFLMAO… Thanks for that.
Reminds me of the current financial systems….
Wednesday, June 9, 2010
Erdogan’s blind ambition.
“Israel’s counter-terrorism center has confirmed, via interviews with the passengers, that a group of 40 hard-core terrorist boarded the Marvi Marmara in Istanbul without being searched and TOOK CONTROL of the boat’s upper deck. It was these terrorists who battled Israeli soldiers last Monday. The 40 terrorists – all IHH operatives -boarded the boat with the encouragement and approval of Recip Tayyip Erdogan, Turkey’s Prime Minister.”
1. An initial analysis of statements taken from passengers aboard the Turkish ship Marvi Marmara after it was towed to the port of Ashdod show that operatives belonging to the radical Islamic Turkish IHH1 led the violent confrontation with the IDF.
2. The statements confirmed that the violence met by the IDF soldiers was NOT spontaneous but rather an organized, premediated action carried out by a hard core of 40 IHH operatives (among the 500 passengers). The operatives, who acted according to a clearly-defined internal heirarchy, boarded the ship in the port of Istanbul WITHOUT undergoing a security inspection (as opposed to the the other passengers) who boarded in Antalya after full inspection.
3. The IHH operatives’ prerparations included handing out walkie-talkies as they boarded the ship, taking over the upper deck, setting up a situation room for communications, and a briefing given to the operatives two hours before the confrontation by IHH jead Bulent Yildirim, who was on board the ship and commanded his men, IHH operatives wore CERAMIC vests and gas masks, and were armed with large quantities of cold weapons which they had prepared from equipment found on board (knives, axes, metal cables, metal pipes used as clubs, etc). they were also equipped with box cutters which had been prepared on the upper deck in advance.
4. The passengers, including the IHH operatives, stated that there were close relations between the organization and Turkish Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan and that Turkish the government was involved in preparations for the flotilla. The statements reinforce the original assessment that the objective of the flotilla was NOT merely to bring humanitarian aid to Gaza Strip, but focused on provocation and violent confrontation with Israel.
5. According to statements from passengers, Turkish Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan maintains close contacts with IHH. The flotilla set sail with FULL knowledge of Erdogan, who expressed personal interest in its success and his intention to EXPLOIT it to promote his status in Turkey and the Arab-Muslim world. Passengers said that before the floyilla set sail, Prime Minister Erdogan constructed a scenario based on a possible confrontation with Israel which he could use to further his own needs. The statements were supported by descriptions found in files on laptop computers belonging to the passengers.
6. That was supported by a statement from a journalist who had good connections with the heads of the Turkish government and with Bulent Yildirim, head of IHH. The following are statements from the journalist, who was a passenger on the Mavi Marmara:
A. Prime Minister Erdogan’s power base is built on IHH activists. Without their help he would not have been elected Prime Minister.
B. The Turkish government was behind the flotilla to the Gaza Strip, and its objective was to embarrass Israel: “The Turks set a trap for you and you fell into it.”
C. The flotilla was organized with the support of the Turkish government and Prime Minister Erdogan gave the instructions for it to set sail. That was despite the fact that every one knew it would never reach its destination.
D. The affair of the flotilla strengthened Erdogan’s status in Turkey and turned him into the leader of Islamic world.
E. Three additional flotilla are expected to sail for Israel and the MODUS OPERANDI will repeat itself.
F. Then joyrnalist stated he had visited the Gaza Strip as part of a humanitarian delegation and his impression was that there was NO distress or lack [of commodities] in the Gaza Strip. He added that “everything is propaganda.”
7. In files found in laptops confiscated from Marvi Marmara passengers were other indications suppprting the vast amount of information concerning the linkage between IHH and the Turkish government.
A. A letter written in Turkish was found from IHH head Bulent Yildirim to Tirkish President Abdullah Gul, asking him to release an IHH operative named Izzat Shahin from an Israeli prison.[Note: Shain is an IHH operative who was sent as an organization representative to Judea and Samaria. His main activity was transferring funds to Hamas "charitable societies," He was detained for questioning in April 2010 and later deported at thr request of Turkish officials.]
B. According to one file, IHH purchased the Mavi Marmara from a Turkish company called IDO [Filename IHH Basin Agiflamasi Gemi.com) [Note: The Turkish company IDO, Istanbul Deniz Otobusleri was founded in 1987 by the city of Istanbul to provide fast, convenient, safe transportation services for the residents of Istanbul. The company, the largest of its type in the worlf, united with City Line Ferry Services in 1995 and is today the main provider of water transportation in Istanbul and the Sea of Marmara.]
Appendix
1. The main points of a Mavi Marmara officer’s statement.
G. The IHH operatives used diasks to SAW the ship’s railing into metal rods. They also had steel rods they took from the lifeboats. After hearing the sound of the disks, the Captain sent two officers to find out where it was coming from. They saw that the IHH operatives had brought disks on deck, CONTRARY to the captain’s orders, and were using them to saw the ship’s railings into metal rods. They found three disks and confiscated them.
H. In retrospeck it is obvious that the incident has been organized in advance. The officer claimed he neither sensed nor understood what was going on during the sea voyage because he kept his distance from the passengers.
But, the *Leftists* here on BU, as is so expected, cry out the usual Mantra of such dishonest people, its called ‘The denial-excuse justification syndrome’ just like their fellow Leftists world wide.
The logic of Zoe, always a joy….
“a group of 40 hard-core terrorist boarded the Marvi Marmara in Istanbul without being searched and TOOK CONTROL of the boat’s upper deck”
No search but……….
“HH operatives wore CERAMIC vests and gas masks, and were armed with large quantities of cold weapons which they had prepared from equipment found on board (knives, axes, metal cables, metal pipes used as clubs, etc”
Zoe,
can you explain why they brought no weapons in the absence of a search?
If they intended not to bring weapons, why did they not have a search?
Onlookers:
Very reluctantly, a further corrective, to give perspective and facts already adduced but overlooked.
Weapons (note some are improvised, or found items, others were plainly brought on board):
(NB: Once an organised assault can cross a zone of fire rapidly enough, a “bayonet charge” with edged and blunt weapons can over-run a defensive position and capture or kill defenders. [Bayonets on rifles are used in the military, but pickaxe handles, metal rods, box cutters, and hunting knives will do just as well. The main defensive purpose of automatic weapons is to make the zone of fire so lethal that an assault will be broken before it comes to close quarters. Capital example: German defenses on the Somme in July 1916, in which surviving machine gun nests after a week of largely ineffectual artillery barrages swept advancing waves of British troops, killing or wounding up to 80 - 90% of advancing battalions, often in a few moments. By contrast at Vimy Ridge in April 1917, Canadian (and British) troops following closely on a well implemented barrage took what had been thought an impregnable position that had withstood all previous attacks.] The life jackets, gas/face masks and ceramic vests would have provided protection from paint/pepper ball pellets used for riot control by Israel and up to 9 mm rounds used in personal side arms. Plus we see reports of not only captured pistols — note the disarmed condition of the three or four pictured, captured soldiers — but also a rifle from a doorway, and the captain of the ship spoke of weapons thrown overboard. Thus, a rush to overwhelm soldiers who were expecting peace activists and so brought paintball guns not assault rifles capable of burst or full auto fire, was very feasible. But the now headlined Sgt S was a pistol expert and with three officers down [two with gunshot wounds] he organised an effective perimeter. And the activist with four rounds in the head tells us what likely happened: co-ordinated rapid double tapping with 9 mm rounds to the head as the less likely to be lethal body centre would not stop a short range rush and the activists were wearing flak jackets. I suspect this activist was the one reported as holding a fun to the head of another soldier, probably to induce surrender of the other soldiers. Co-ordinated double tap would take him down instantly. A rush would follow this, and rapid fire double-tapping by a pistol expert could break such a charge, once it was evident that men were going down fast. [Recall the notorious 1986 Miami FBI turkey shoot: an FBI officer hit Platt in centre-of body, putting a pistol round through the lung to 1 inch from the heart, but Platt lived long enough to put down a devastating 2 or so minute barrage that wounded or killed several FBI agents -- he was an ex marine turned bank robber. It takes a shot to the CNS or a round capable of hydrostatic shock to the CNS by a pressure wave from its impact to cause instant incapacitation.] This explains the six reportedly killed by Sgt S. Notice, too that the reports show that many other wounds were to legs. It is also normal to have chaotic, conflicting reports on a high-stress situation that happened very fast.)
Bottomline: remember, modern terrorism is violent street theatre, meant to convey frightening and polarising images and messages, to paralyse and intimidate. That is why, now that we have seen how Reuters photoshopped and cropped images of captured and disarmed Israeli soldiers taken as hostages [notice how we do not see the paintball guns!], a turkish doctor has surfaces to try to dismiss the significance of a stabbed solder lying on deck next to an activist with a hunting/fighting knife:
>> “The third soldier, however, suffered a cut in his stomach that reached his stomach membrane but not the organ itself. It was nothing fatal. As a doctor, I wouldn’t want to guess the nature of this injury but it could have been caused by either landing on a sharp pole from the helicopter or a blow from a pipe with a sharp edge. I couldn’t tell . . . ” >>
In short, “don’t believe yer lyin’ eyes” those metal poles we saw flailing away at rapelling soldiers enforcing a legitimate blockade* were not lethal clubs, and the knives were not there to be used.
Sure . . .
D
* F/N: Blockades are a well known long standing instrument of war at sea. Over the past 100+ years since long range artillery, torpedoes and mines were invented (then missiles, including suicide planes and boats) they have been implemented at long range. So soon as it is clear on reasonable grounds that a ship is a blockade runner against a duly notified blockade [which was the case here, from the time the ships left port, and from the radio exchanges], the blockading navy is within its rights to stop it, even on the high seas. This was for instance done by the Royal Navy against Germany in both world wars, if you know or can look up the history. [See how important history is to give us context to check out claims and counter claims in today's news, advocacy and commentary?] The objections above that Israel stopped a ship in international waters and so was guilty of piracy and/or kidnapping are blatantly specious. Worse, the double standards thereby revealed expose a latent antisemitism that stains the above thread with an indelible shame. (Links to materials providing balance on the history and legitimacy of Modern Israel have already been provided above. Suffice to say, that Arabs are not the only ones with legitimate national claims in the Middle East, and that where claims clash, a reasonable compromise [cf the Weismann-Feisal Hussein Versailles side agreement on mutually supportive development of the Arab and Jewish nations in the ME, of January 1919; which is the missing balancing context on the Balfour Declaration and the League of Nations Mandate] is far better than repeated wars of attempted genocide [1948, 1967] or warfare by terrorism and agit-prop [1926 - present]. The gharqad tree hadith on massacring Jews is also long past its sell-by date and should be removed from clause 7 of the Hamas covenant along with other antisemitic teachings in that grounding document for the de facto regime in Gaza.)
In view of the continuous onslaught on the truth by Israeli supporters, it is necessary to debunk (again) one of their claims… that the blockade of Gaza is legal. I repeat the substance of my post of June 8th, at 5.20 PM, the facts of which do not appear to make any impact on their propaganda. Ironically, they continue to use one of Hitler’s favourite tactics…if you tell a lie often enough, it eventually gains the status of truth.
There is no state of war existing between Israel and Gaza. Israel’s status with respect to Gaza is that of “belligerent occupation”, despite the 2005 withdrawal of its military and settlers.
Belligerent occupation is different from a true state of war and does not automatically not confer the technical right to form a blockade.
The Declarations of Paris (1856) and London (1909) laid down most of the modern ground rules for blockades and one provision is that the quarantined area may not extend too far beyond the coast, although the law isn’t specific on distance. Many scholars interpret the language of the London Declaration to limit blockades to the standard 12 nautical miles that define territorial waters.
So for Israel to claim legal right to enforce a blockade 68 miles from the coast of Gaza is wrong on two counts.
Predictably, as soon as anyone criticizes anything Israeli, they scream “antisemitism” and resort to the old tired tactic of playing victim. It no longer works.
This Says It All
Israelis kill American – Joe Biden says: “What’s the big deal?”
by Justin Raimondo, June 04, 2010
What is US foreign policy in the Middle East all about – and for whose benefit is it being conducted? In two short paragraphs, this news story says it all:
“The U.S. confirmed that an American citizen, identified as 19-year-old Furkan Dogan, was killed by multiple gunshots during the Israeli raid on a flotilla carrying activists attempting to run a blockade of the Gaza Strip.
“State Department spokesman Philip J. Crowley said the U.S. has made no decision on a response to Dogan’s death.”
Apparently official Washington is torn between issuing a mild protest, and thanking them.
“Protecting the welfare of American citizens is a fundamental responsibility of our government,” Hillary Clinton assured the media, “and one that we take very seriously” – but not seriously enough to issue an official protest. “We are in constant contact with the Israeli government attempting to obtain more information about our citizens.” Do they want to know how many holes the IDF put in Furkan Dogan’s head before they make a decision on a response?
In reality, the US already made a response in the form of Vice President Joe “Loose Cannon” Biden, who, when asked about the attack on the flotilla, said: “So what’s the big deal here?”
At the time he said it, the odds were fair that an American citizen – out of nine with the flotilla — was among the dead. Now that it’s been confirmed, I wonder if it’s dawned on our dim-witted Vice President that it is indeed a very big deal.
In a brazen act of international piracy, the Israelis boarded a ship in international waters and killed an American citizen – so what is the American government going to do about it?
The answer is: nothing, zero, nada, zilch. Israel refuses to let an international investigation look into the matter, and Biden is cool with that, as he told Charlie Rose:
“Biden: We passed a resolution in the UN saying we need a transparent and open investigation of what happened. It looks like things are…
“Rose: International investigation?
“Biden: Well, an investigation run by the Israelis, but we’re open to international participation.”
That’s certainly impartial, fair, and transparent – let the Israelis investigate themselves! No, Biden isn’t stupid: he’s smart enough to know the Israelis will never be held accountable by our government, and that any attempt to do so would be aborted before it ever became known.
The reason for this peculiar passivity is because, contra Hillary, protecting the welfare of American citizens is not considered a fundamental responsibility of our government insofar as it means protecting their welfare against the government of Israel. In any conflict between American and Israeli interests, Washington’s instinctive response is to uphold the latter and ignore the former. Under the Bush administration, such a conflict of interests was considered impossible: the very idea that there could be daylight between Washington and Tel Aviv on any given issue was considered heretical. Even under the Bushies, however, there was still some vague stirrings of American independence, especially toward the end of the second term. And they never had to face a situation like this, in which an American citizen in transit was murdered by our faithful “allies.” That kind of thing hasn’t happened since the sinking of the USS Liberty – and it may be a sign of what’s to come that a survivor of that heinous assault was traveling with the flotilla, too.
In the case of the USS Liberty, the whole thing was covered up in a shameful act of official suppression: against the testimony of the sailors on that ship, 34 of whom were killed, the US government ruled that the savage Israeli assault was a tragic “accident.” Yet US government officials knew the truth. As then secretary of state Dean Rusk later put it:
“I was never satisfied with the Israeli explanation. Their sustained attack to disable and sink Liberty precluded an assault by accident or some trigger-happy local commander. Through diplomatic channels we refused to accept their explanations. I didn’t believe them then, and I don’t believe them to this day. The attack was outrageous.”
So is this attack outrageous, but if the US government can whitewash the Israeli murder of 34 American sailors, it can overlook the murder of a single American in nearly identical circumstances.
Of course, this is not 1967: the news of an American’s death at the hands of the IDF is being transmitted around the world, even as I write this, and all the details are coming out: the pitilessness of the Israelis, young Furkan’s idealism, and the horrific circumstances of his death.
What is being transmitted, above all, is the braying arrogance of the Israeli Prime Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, and his media shills, as they deride the dead as “terrorists looking for trouble.” Bizarrely, the Vice President of the United States is joining right in, declaring that Israel had a “right” to board the ships and detain the passengers because it has a “right” to ensure its own “security” – yet the ships were inspected by the Turkish government in Cyprus before they left, and found to contain only items such as building material and children’s toys. The Israelis, as part of their serio-comic propaganda offensive, are triumphantly showing off a cache of “weapons” found on the ship – which looks like nothing more than a collection of old kitchen knives and a couple of metal poles.
An American is killed as heavily armed soldiers of a foreign nation board a ship in international waters, firing live ammunition at the passengers as they rappel onto the deck. Among those passengers: a former US ambassador, a former US colonel and Pentagon official, several members of the European parliament, a member of the Israeli Knesset, and members of parliament from several Arab countries.
Imagine if Iran had done this. Washington would have reverberated with the sound of thunder emanating from the White House, and the attack fleet would already be steaming toward the Gulf, taking up position. That the culprit was Israel, however, puts a whole different face on the matter, at least as far as our government is concerned: they’re content to let the Israelis “investigate,” and let the matter drop.
For years, some of us have been saying that the government of Israel and its partisans in this country exercise a decisive – and unhealthy – influence on the making and execution of US foreign policy. We’ve been accused of everything from anti-Semitism to pushing “conspiracy theories,” and yet the Mediterranean Massacre – and our government’s non-response – underscores that, if anything, we’ve been underestimating the extent to which the US takes its orders directly from Tel Aviv.
The Israel Lobby controls official Washington: Congress is, as Pat Buchanan trenchantly observed, “Israeli-occupied territory.” Yet one would think that, in spite of these circumstances, the wanton murder of an American on the high seas by Israeli commandos would provoke an angry response from Washington. Unfortunately, one would be wrong.
Instead, what we have is the grotesque spectacle of our Vice President commending the Israelis, and the US and Israel scrambling to come up with a “joint response.” What more proof do we need that the US government is the political equivalent of occupied Palestine, where truth and justice are under blockade?
For years, they’ve been spying on us, collaborating with our enemies, stealing our secrets, manipulating our politicians, and now they’ve gone so far as to murder one of our citizens on neutral ground – and still our government cannot manage even a peep of protest. A more disgusting display of cowardice would be hard to imagine.
We attacked Iraq in large part due to the influence of the Lobby, and we are gearing up for an armed conflict with Iran in response to the same sort of pressure: will we now countenance the execution of one of our own citizens in order to appease Tel Aviv?
This was no “accident.” The Israeli government knew precisely what it was doing, it knew there were Americans on those ships, and chose to go in guns blazing: it was the equivalent of spitting in Uncle Sam’s face.
After all, how dare those Americans try to freeze the building of settlements in what is “Greater Israel”? How dare Obama tell us what we can and cannot do?! We’ll show them! Let’s kill a few. Don’t worry – they won’t retaliate. We own them: and they know it.
In view of the Obama administration’s shameful crawling, one can hardly disagree. Which raises a question: how many American lives are to be sacrificed on the altar of the “special relationship”? It’s a question to which one doesn’t really want to know the answer.
Inkwell, “Predictably, as soon as anyone criticizes anything Israeli, they scream “antisemitism” and resort to the old tired tactic of playing victim. It no longer works.”
Really!!!
Salient historic facts:
Israel has suffered 25, 375 attacks and nearly 14,000 casualties – just during the 45 months since October 2000. This translates to 20 attacks and 10 casualties, DAILY. The PLO /PA, Hamas, Hezbollah, is at WAR with Israel, the PLO/PA wants every Jew dead.
For the 4 years beginning September 200, but before most of the fence was erected, Israel had suffered a staggering 11,356 casualties. For the 5 years ending Juky 2005, there were 25, 375 TERROR ATTACKS commited by Muslim terrorist-soldiers , this IS NOT a typing error, and the printed number is correct: *25, 375* ATTACKS.
Inkwell, and you say Israel is not at war with Hamas, et al? What world do you live in?
Radical Islamic Jihadists, are not just at war with Israel, who they want to ANNIHILATE first; they are at WAR with the entire Western World. On a global level, there has been more than 2,400 TERRORIST ATTACKS perpetrated by Muslims against Westerners throughout the world during the 45 months since 9/11. No, the clergy are not the only ones who regularly spew forth hate.
It is not surprising that there is NO country called Israel on official PA maps of the Middle East; those boundaries encompass an area which is labeled Palestine and is entirely Arabic.
Arafat, while he was alive, had a strategy , and his intentions remaied unchanged, which have been expressly endorsed by the so-called moderate Abbas of the PLO/PA.
It was Arafat who told an exclusively Muslim audience in Johannesburg, that he viewed the Oslo Accords as “a despicable truce” which he said he would be able to break as soon as he was ready just as the prophet Mohammed broke his treaty withn the Quraish people. Battle plans are being revealed.
And so, Arafat went on his merry way, and upon returning to Gaza, he immediately began building the military machine need to launch the TERROR-WAR against the Jews of Israel from the very territories he was given; just as he said he would do in that address. of Septembe 1993. Nearly 26,000 Jewish casualties in the ensuing 12 years, never in the history of the world has a political process produced as much blood-shed as has the Oslo process whose stated objective is the creation of the Palestinian Authority (PA) and the subsequent establishment of a Palestinian state..
The Phased Plan of the PA has NEVER been repealed, as its predecessor, the PLO Covenant; and both documents call for the total DESTRUCTION of the Jewish State, Strategies are revealed in these official documents which are being strictly followed by all PA leaders.
(Arafat’s speech in its entirety may be seen as a video that can be purchased from the online store at http://www.wnd.com)
The creation of More and More Muslim-controlled regions.
Muslims have murdered MILLIONS and MILLIONS of non-Muslims in just the last two decades of the 20th Century. Already, more than 60 regions and/or countries are under the full control of Muslims and, in 40 of these countries, control WAS achieved through VIOLENCE and WARS. For nearly four years since 9/11, there have been more than 2400 terrorist attacks perpetrated by Muslims ALL around the world; and outside Israel. they are utilizing violence and war to achieve their objective throughout the world, and in this regard, the Muslims in the Israeli region of the world. Muslims are responsible for most HATE-DRIVEN violence in the world, and they all justify in the name of their religion – in their quest for control of more territory, Indeed.
‘Islam’s borders are bloody and so are the innards.’
(This is a most descriptive phrase coined by Samuel P. Huntington in ‘The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order)
Or, in the language of prophecy:
“Muslims will wage violent wars throughout the world at that time.”
[i.e., in the pre-Messianic era]
{Zohar 11, 32a]
Onlookers:
Sigh, in response to a slanderous accusation above.
Fact check, underscoring the gap between hostile rhetoric and easily accessible facts and relevant law:
___________________
http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/LDE6511I7.htm
Q&A-Is Israel’s naval blockade of Gaza legal?
02 Jun 2010 13:10:59 GMT
Source: Reuters
By Jonathan Saul
LONDON, June 2 (Reuters) – Israel has said it will continue a naval blockade of the Gaza Strip despite growing global pressure to lift the siege after a navy raid on a Turkish ferry carrying aid killed nine activists this week.
What is the legality of the blockade and did Israel’s intervention breach international law? Below are some questions and answers on the issue:
CAN ISRAEL IMPOSE A NAVAL BLOCKADE ON GAZA?
Yes it can, according to the law of blockade which was derived from customary international law and codified in the 1909 Declaration of London. It was updated in 1994 in a legally recognised document called the “San Remo Manual on International Law Applicable to Armed Conflicts at Sea”. Under some of the key rules, a blockade must be declared and notified to all belligerents and neutral states, access to neutral ports cannot be blocked, and an area can only be blockaded which is under enemy control.
“On the basis that Hamas is the ruling entity of Gaza and Israel is in the midst of an armed struggle against that ruling entity, the blockade is legal,” said Philip Roche, partner in the shipping disputes and risk management team with law firm Norton Rose.
WHAT ARE INTERNATIONAL WATERS?
Under the U.N. Convention of the Law of the Sea a coastal state has a “territorial sea” of 12 nautical miles from the coast over which it is sovereign. Ships of other states are allowed “innocent passage” through such waters.
There is a further 12 nautical mile zone called the “contiguous zone” over which a state may take action to protect itself or its laws.
“However, strictly beyond the 12 nautical miles limit the seas are the “high seas” or international waters,” Roche said.
The Israeli navy said on Monday the Gaza bound flotilla was intercepted 120 km (75 miles) west of Israel. The Turkish captain of one of the vessels told an Istanbul news conference after returning home from Israeli detention they were 68 miles outside Israeli territorial waters.
Under the law of a blockade, intercepting a vessel could apply globally so long as a ship is bound for a “belligerent” territory, legal experts say.
CAN ISRAEL USE FORCE WHEN INTERCEPTING SHIPS?
Under international law it can use force when boarding a ship.
“If force is disproportionate it would be a violation of the key tenets of the use of force,” said Commander James Kraska, professor of international law at the U.S. Naval War College.
Israeli authorities said marines who boarded the Turkish vessel Mavi Marmara opened fire in self-defence after activists clubbed and stabbed them and snatched some of their weapons.
Legal experts say proportional force does not mean that guns cannot be used by forces when being attacked with knives. [Put it this way, you can shoot back to stop a "bayonet charge."]
“But there has got to be a relationship between the threat and response,” Kraska said.
The use of force may also have other repercussions.
“While the full facts need to emerge from a credible and transparent investigation, from what is known now, it appears that Israel acted within its legal rights,” said J. Peter Pham, a strategic adviser to U.S. and European governments.
“However, not every operation that the law permits is necessarily prudent from the strategic point of view.”
OPPONENTS HAVE CALLED ISRAEL’S RAID “PIRACY”. WAS IT?
No, as under international law it was considered a state action.
“Whether what Israel did is right or wrong, it is not an act of piracy. Piracy deals with private conduct particularly with a pecuniary or financial interest,” Kraska said.
HAVE THERE BEEN ANY SHIPPING DISRUPTIONS AFTER THE RAID?
None so far but the International Chamber of Shipping (ICS), an association which represents 75 percent of the world’s merchant fleet, has expressed “deep concern” over the boarding by Israeli forces, arguing that merchant ships have a right to safe passage and freedom of navigation in international waters. [But, there is no right to act as a cover for smuggling of weapons used to promote genocidal terrorism; cf. Hamas Covenant clause 7.]
“These fundamental principles of international law must always be upheld by all of the world’s nations,” the ICS said.
__________________
A remark by Amb Oren is a grim warning:
We need to think soberly about what intemperate, unfair and evidently antisemitic rhetoric by which heads or tails Israel loses in not only the media but international fora, can precipitate if it leads to a situation where enemies of Israel are emboldened to pursue genocide a third time [as in 1948 and 1967]; as Iran has threatened.
D
Iran threatened genocife did they?
Care to quote sources.
Dictionary; In your piece above you said “A remark by Amb Oren is a grim warning:
. . . “Our critics don’t get it,” Oren said. “In Jenin, we went house-to-house and sent 23 soldiers to their death. But if we’re going to be called war criminals no matter what we do, then maybe that changes our thinking.”
Care to tell us how many non-person palestinians or other goyims were sent to their deaths by those soldiers in Jenin in consequence of the typical israeli approach outlined in the second sentence of the quote above? But of course that doesn’t matter. Does it?
Reuters employs a firm of Israeli lawyers…what else do you expect? the truth?
@Inkwell: “Reuters employs a firm of Israeli lawyers…
IMHO, that is not necessarily a bad thing.
But it might be worth watching *very* closely….
Amazing BU actually has fielded two very intelligent posters.
Bad Man sayin nuttin and Zoe.- very well done
Are you sure you are on the right forum?
@ru4real
Waiting for you to respond to a question this blog for weeks now.
F/N:
SOME NECESSARY CORRECTIONS:
1] “Al Reuters” was cited above as a hostile witness [and notice nothing has been said on the merits of the state of international law on blockade as a legitimate instrument of warfare at sea per San Remo etc; the tactic is distract, distort, denigrate and dismiss, even where the source is biased against Israel]. On the same incident Reuters was caught out editing out knives held by activists and pools of blood next to battered, bleeding and in one case stabbed Israeli soldiers. In 2006, it was earlier caught out with falsified pictures of damage in Lebanon. It headlines have been consistently anti-Israeli. Just last year, its photo gallery on Israel’s Independence day was similarly biased, by contrast with even AP. Inkwell shows that he is not doing his basic homework.
2] Anonymous, if you do not know that consistently the current president of Iran has threatened genocide [wiped off the sands of time or the map depending on translation] while denying the reality of the living memory past holocaust of 6 million Jews, that it is Iran that is arming Hezbollah with now 40+ k rockets, seeks to do the same for Hamas [a big reason for the blockade . . . ], and that the issue over Iranian nukes that just led to UN sanctions is over getting the WMD means for same, you do not know enough to comment seriously on these matters.
3] Check it out, please do your homework. The Jenin massacre is a long since exploded agit-prop myth, similar to a great many others, e.g. the Mohammed Dura affair. And the corroborating sources on exploding that myth include: “the United Nations, Human Rights Watch and an investigation by the European Union.”
And it could go on and on forever. But enough has been said and corrected to show what is going on.
Dictionary; You still haven’t answered my question which was not aimed at the “jenin massacre” as such but merely the standard modus operandi of the israelis.
The organizations that attempted to investigate the “Jenin massacre” were not allowed to conduct a proper investigation by the Israeli authorities. Reliable information was therefore sparse but it is evident that typical Israeli terrorist operations were carried out on the population of Jenin.
Read between the lines of the politically correct UN report and see that the full unvarnished story was never told. http://www.un.org/peace/jenin/
Seems like you need to brush up on your Farsi Dictionary.
When exposed as a lying propagandist, instead of standing your corner the first recourse are the usual taunts of anti-semitism and holocaust denial.
Straight over my head old boy.
I know, the Palestinians certainly know and the UN resolved that, “Zionism is a form of racism”.
Now the world is coming to the same realisation.
Once more, as I apparently “do not know enough to comment seriously on these matters” I call on you to give your sources for Ahmadinejad “consistently threatening genocide” so we can all understand your passionate concern for poor little Israel.
Do this, or stand condemned before all on this blog as a zealous but untruthful proselytizer.
Oh, and before you trot out the usual twisting of the long dead Ayatollah’s words, I shall place them here for the”onlookers” to judge. They will suffer no censorship or mistranslation in this forum because your writ stops at the terminally corrupted print and TV media.
Ayatollah Khomeini’s statement, quoted by Ahmadinejad, reads: Een (this) rezhim-e (regime) ishghalgar-e (occupying) qods (Jerusalem) bayad (must) az safheh-ye ruzgar (from page of time) mahv shavad (vanish from).
A direct English translation reads:
This regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time.
That’s it, no mention of Jews, genocide or even Israel, simply a call for the repressive Zionist regime to be ousted from the shared Holy City.
Much the same rhetoric as Bush v Saddam or Sharon v Arafat.
If that quote is part of your “consistency”, you’ll have to come up some real fire and brimstone from Ahmadinejad to even approach a threat let alone genocide.
Speaking of which, in case you wondered from my earlier post, I do know there’s no “f..in” genocide, LOL.
Three more points you should clarify from your condescending sermon :-
i) if in fact a state of war does exist, do you believe that allies should be prevented from supplying both belligerents, or just one ?
ii) do you believe that all those in contravention of the Nuclear Proliferation Treaty should have their illegal facilities destroyed, or just one?
iii) In view of Israel being in violation of dozens of UN resolutions, do you believe all transgressors should be sanctioned, or just one?
Not expecting any coherent response from you, but step out of your glass house before pelting any more rocks, you may cut yourself.
emory past holocaust of 6 million Jews, that it is Iran that is arming Hezbollah with now 40+ k rockets, seeks to do the same for Hamas [a big reason for the blockade . . . ], and that the issue over Iranian nukes that just led to UN sanctions is over getting the WMD means for same, you do not know enough to comment seriously on these matters.
2] Anonymous, if you do not know that consistently the current president of Iran has threatened genocide [wiped off the sands of time or the map depending on translation] while denying the reality of the living memory past holocaust of 6 million Jews, that it is Iran that is arming Hezbollah with now 40+ k rockets, seeks to do the same for Hamas [a big reason for the blockade . . . ], and that the issue over Iranian nukes that just led to UN sanctions is over getting the WMD means for same, you do not know enough to comment seriously on these matters.
Ayatollah Khomeini’s statement, quoted by Ahmadinejad, reads: Een (this) rezhim-e (regime) ishghalgar-e (occupying) qods (Jerusalem) bayad (must) az safheh-ye ruzgar (from page of time) mahv shavad (vanish from).
A direct English translation reads:
This regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time.
Onlookers:
Sigh, again, as the pattern of successive red herrings leads out to yet more strawmannised caricatures laced with poisonous ad hominems, ignited to cloud, choke, confuse, poison and polarise the atmosphere.
There simply was no massacre at Jenin, despite what a patently and consistently biased UN would have liked to find; but did not. Period. Indeed, if you will follow my earlier link you wills ee that he Palestinian Authorities in the end did not find the substantiation for a massacre or event eh wholescale destruction of the town.
So, the first problem is that we have layers upon layers of poisoned misinformation to correct, if we are to see straight and think clearly. Which is precisley what the trifecta fallacy of red herrings, strawmen and ad hominems that his thread as a whole so patently reflects is designed to prevent.
And when it comes tot he threat of Iran, this is a case of denial of blatant, long-standing and dangerous reality at he most intense level. For, Iranian Mahdist Islamism is not just about Israel, but the eschatological subjugation of the world under the Mahdi’s imagined global utopian regime. In that context, the present president of Iran sees himself as paving the way. Also, we must understand that he is not the leader of the country in the sense that say Mr Obama is of the USA. He answers tot he Mullahs in the Guardian Council who vetted the candidate list for the elections, setting him up for an artificial win, and when there were street protests a year ago, they backed the brutal and murderous suppression of dissent that we saw.
Now of course, we may point to the October 26, 2005 news re;lease by IRIB News, an English-language subsidiary of the state-controlled Islamic Republic of Iran Broadcasting (IRIB). As such i tis quite reasonably to be taken as an expression of the official voice of Iran, above and beyond distractive debates on the precise translation of Mr Ahmadinejad’s speech. In short, the technicalities of translation that someone wishes to c amp out on above as yet another red herring [notice how many tangets have led us far from the primary subject for this thread . . . that is no accident ], have little to do with the force — and the long term context — of what was plainly meant in an official statement:
But, the most worrying fact about Iran’s nuclear threat to Israel and the Middle East (and beyond) is the point that it is in fact a longstanding policy of the elders who rule Iran, as we may see from the then no 2 man after Khameni, Rafsanjani in the following 2001 IPS article:
______________
http://www.iran-press-service.com/articles_2001/dec_2001/rafsanjani_nuke_threats_141201.htm
TEHRAN 14 Dec. (IPS) One of Iran’s most influential ruling cleric called Friday on the Muslim states to use nuclear weapon against Israel, assuring them that while such an attack would annihilate Israel, it would cost them “damages only”.
“If a day comes when the world of Islam is duly equipped with the arms Israel has in possession, the strategy of colonialism would face a stalemate because application of an atomic bomb would not leave any thing in Israel but the same thing would just produce damages in the Muslim world”, Ayatollah Ali Akbar Hashemi-Rafsanjani told the crowd at the traditional Friday prayers in Tehran.
Analysts said not only Mr. Hashemi-Rafsanjani’s speech was the strongest against Israel, but also this is the first time that a prominent leader of the Islamic Republic openly suggests the use of nuclear weapon against the Jewish State . . . .
In a lengthy speech to mark the so-called “International Qods (Jerusalem) Day” celebrated in Iran only, Mr. Hashemi-Rafsanjani, who, as the Chairman of the Assembly to Discern the Interests of the State, is the Islamic Republic’s number two man after Ayatollah Ali Khameneh’i, said since Israel was an emanation of Western colonialism therefore “in future it will be the interests of colonialism that will determine existence or non-existence of Israel” . . . .
“Jews shall expect to be once again scattered and wandering around the globe the day when this appendix is extracted from the region and the Muslim world”, Mr. Hashemi-Rafsanjani warned, blaming on the United States and Britain the “creation of the fabricated entity” in the heart of Arab and Muslim world.
[The "colonialism" and "fabricated entity" assertions of course neatly omit that the largest single group of Jews in Israel come from the Middle East, rooted in populations that are thousands of years old, and are there in Israel as refugees driven out by hostile Islamic states; that on the Ashkenazim, the genetic evidence is decisive that the traditional claim of Jews to be an exiled population from the Holy Land is substantially correct, and that Jews have a historic, legitimate claim to nationhood rooted in Israel, which ever since 1919 they have been willing to re-establish on a compromise and partnership basis with their neighbours and cousins, the Arabs.]
__________________
That is the reality we face, a threat that has been building up for a decade or more in the hands of a regime committed to an ideology that is fraught with dangers for the whole world.
A danger that ever so many in our region are sadly blind to, being caught up in the mesh of antisemitic agit-prop targetting Israel.
(And, “anti-Zionism” becomes racist antisemitism at exactly the point where Israel is pushed into a corner where a selective standard is used to condemn them whatever they do [apart from passively submit to terrorism and murder], where poisonous blood libels such as the myth of the Jenin massacre are insisted upon in the teeth of correction, and where other poisonous slanders such as piracy, kidnapping, apartheid state etc are used to unfairly delegitimise the Jewish nation. Notice, onlookers, how those who used such terms above have refused correction on the merits and have gone on to every sort of tangential issue and further poisonous accusation, showing a pattern of evasion, misinformation and spreading of slander. This is shameful and must stop. [Those who want corrective information have already been directed to helpful sources.])
It is time to rethink what we are doing in the Caribbean.
And, much against my wishes, I have been dragged back into a rheotrical muck-swamp of slanders and distortions. I am leaving now, as it is ever so plain that something is deeply rotten in the state of the Caribbean. Beyond a certain point, it is no longer the duty of the corrector, but that of the one corrected, to take a long hard look at him or her self and clean up the rhetorical muck-swamp.
That point of identifying a neglected duty of care to the truth, to sound thinking and to fairness, civility and common decency, has long since been passed.
Goodbye.
Dictionary
PS: For reference [for those interested in cleaning up the rhetorical muck-swamp], I give the following links (yet again):
1] Balancing points on the history of Modern Israel, here. (The wider page will address the theological issues connected to the feuding family of Abraham, including Gal ch 3 on the blessing of Abraham, which is come to all nations in the Seed of Abraham.)
2] Addressing the many poisonous agit-prop myths that unfairly target and seek to delegitimise Israel in global opinion, here. (That Israel has its fair share of sins and challenges to address is a given — in a world of finite, fallible, fallen and too often ill-willed people; and theologically, one should check Ezekiel 35 – 39 to give context, some of which is discussed in the paper in 1 just above. It would also be wise for us all to reflect on Matt 7:1 – 5, Eph 4:17 – 24, Jn 3:19 – 21 and James 3:1 – 4:2.)
3] To gain a wider, balancing appreciation of Judaism and Jews, cf here.
4] To appreciate and respond to the challenge of Islam — and that of Islamism — in our region, I suggest here as a start.
So you can’t back up your lies and have to slope off with your tail between your legs.
Maybe you are concerned about the coming apocalypse, and now the prophecy is fulfilling, you are preaching against it because your side might lose.
What a pompous bigoted joker! Bye.
Dictionary;
Why do you always seem to rely totally on Israeli “talking point” web pages for your submissions on the Israeli-Palestine situation? Why not look for a few middle of the road analyses of the situation? I wonder how many of the BU regulars know that Israel pays bloggers to regurgitate several of the points that Dictionary makes in these posts.
When ROK said he was leaving, they jumped all over him a said he can’t help he will be back..lol.
Now Dictionary says he has been ‘dragged’ back. ..ROFLMFAO!!
I lost count at the times he has said he is gone for good LOL. His arrogance and pompous nature will soon bring him back to this un civil blog, even if just ‘passing by to glance’ in order to correct the onlookers….PRICELESS….ROFLMFAO!!!
You just have to have BU with your morning coffee.
Techie it was I the GP who said that Rok would be back. No one else on BU would dare say that.
But was I not correct? He returned with his usual bovine excrement for the whipping he deserved. Cause he has nothing to contribute
On the other hand, you yourself habe admitted that Dictionary is a bright boy. You may not like him or his style but he contributes something to the discussion.
He brings somethinh a little more than the usual erratic emotional eflluxes emitted on BU man. Give jack he jacket. LOL
Now I stay out of this arguement. I know how the story will end so I stick to that. LOL Be good man Come over to the other thread and bail out Blackett man. He has entered a zone in which he has no qualification and is like a ship without a rudder, or a surgeon without a scalpel.
It gets a bit boring beating up on brainless boys, brother!
Facts are stubborn things, and only the stubborn refuse to accept them.
Almighty God of creation has warned ALL who seek to harm and destroy Israel, Hear Him.
“They (Israel) will dwell in the land in security and build houses and plant vinyards…when I EXECUTE JUDGMENT upon those who conspire against them.” (Ezekiel 28: 26) emphasis added.
Israel survives and will CONTINUE to survive the constant pressure from the West, the Islamic Jihadist, including the racism of “ethnic cleansing” that is demonstrated by constant calls for deportation of Jews from parts of their Land. And Israel will survive, regardless of the ever-present evil intentions of Muslim murderers and their international supporters.
Hear the Lord God again:
“I will plant them in their LAND and they will NEVER AGAIN be uprooted from their LAND that I HAVE GIVEN THEM.” (Amos 9:15) emphasis added.
In the past, we had seen how nations had designed the demise of Israel and now, we are witnessing others planning anew. We have also seen that the destiny of Israel IS in the hands of the Almighty.
Thank God that the fate of Israel, and the Jewish people IS NOT decided in the “den of thieves” known as the UN.
Those nations who attempt to prevent Jews from building and planting, those who torment the Jews, those people will suffer Almighty God’s fury.
It is a historical FACT, that when ever nations attempt to dismantle Israel and expose Jews to danger, at that point God unleashes the forces of nature against Israel’s would-be-oppressors, against those who jeopardize Jewish lives.
These Laws of History that are being mentioned here, these laws proclaim:
“Those who torment Israel will fall,” (Isaiah 54:15).
We have seen the disintegration of the Former Soviet Union and the waning of Great Britain’s empire. These Laws of History are noticeable, in that other nations are also being affected. In particular, a review of recent cataclysmic events will help to illustrate how America is beginning to experience the application of these principles of history.
October 30, 1991: The first President Bush opened the Madrid Conference, the intended purpose of which was to strip Israel of its land (in exchange for “peace” with the Palestinian Arabs. Such an approach places Jewish lives in danger; As has already been noted, Jews have suffered more casualties during the period of “peace” negotiations than during ALL their wars with Arabs and Muslims. However, *On the very day* that Bush opened the Madrid Conference, an extremely rare storm formed on the coast of Nova Scotia, a storm which was eventually named “The Perfect Storm” and which was the focus of a book and movie by the same name. Record-setting enormous waves pounded the New England coast, even causing heavy damage to the Presidents home in Kennebunkport, Maine.
August 23, 1992: Ten months later, the Madrid Conference moved to Washington, D.C, with the same agenda of attempting to wrest land from a sovereign country, which would, by its very nature, create a state of homelessness for thousands of Jews. On the very SAME DAY, Hurrican Andrew produced an estimated $30 billion in damage, leaving 180,000 Floridians homeless in the worst natural disaster to hit America (up until that time).
January 16, 1994: President Clinton meets with the Syrian President in order to develop a strategy that would FORCE Israel to give up the Golan Heights. Less than 24 hours later, a powerful 6.9 earthquake rocks southern California. Countless Americans are rendered homeless in the second most destructive natural disaster to ever hit America, second only to the previous Hurricane Andrew.
March 1, 1997: Arafat begins a none-month tour of America and Clinton publicly rebuks Israel for not surrendering land for “peace”. On the VERY DAY that Arafat lands in America, powerful tornadoes devastate huge sections of the country while ripping across Texas, Arkansas, Mississippi, Kentucky, and Tennessee. Days later, storms hit the Dakotas, causing the worst flooding of the century. Weeks of major storms rage throughout the Midwest. As Arafat completes his tour and leaves the U.S., the storms “suddenly” stop.
January 21, 1998: Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu meets with Clinton and is coldly recieved. Clinton and Albright refuse to lunch with him. Hours later on THAT VERY DAY, the Monica Lweinsky scandal erupts and will consume the major portion of Clinton’s time for the remainder of his tenure.
September 24-28, 1998: Secretary of State Albright is completing a draft of an agreement whereby Israel will be FORCED to surrender 13% of its territory (in Gaza and the West Bank). On that very SAME DAY, Hurrican George slams into the Gulf Coast with gust up to 175 miles per hour and with 90 mph winds that rage for more than 10 hours. While the hurricane is causing an estimated $6 billion in damage, Arafat is addressing the UN, announching his plans to declare an independent Palestinian state by May 1999. At the very moment that Arafat departs the US, the storm begins to dissipate.
May 3, 1999: The day that Arafat planned to declare a Palestinian state (with Jerusalem as its capital) is the day that Clinton encourages Arafat to perservere until he achieves statehood for his people. Clinton also writes that the Palestinian Arabs have a right to “determine their own future on their own land” (which is called Israel) On that VERY SAME DAY, the most powerful tornado storm system to ever hit America sweeps across Oklahoma and Kansas, with winds clocked at 316 mph, the fastest wind speed ever recorded on earth.
There are other very specific events of natural disaster, that occurred exactly ON THE SAME DAY, that America was forcing Israel to give up land for so-called “peace” with the Palestinians.
One last point:
August 2005: Was the month when Sharon expelled the Jews of Gaza from their homes. The forced evacuation was euphemistically termed “disengagement”; basically, the Jews of Gaza were MADE HOMELESS, in accordance with the demands of the American President and his Secretary of State. 10,000 Jews became homeless (out of a Jewish population of 6 million). On August 29th, as the Gaza operation was being concluded, ON THAT VERY DAY, America was hit by the worst natural disaster to have ever occurred in America, Hurrican Katrina. In the New Orleans area, 500,000 people were made homeless ( in a country with a population of 300,000,000), These numbers as a fraction represent, or are equivalent to .00167 percent of the total American population. Note this CARFULLY, the number of Jews rendered homeless in Gaza as a fraction of the total Jewish population is also .00167 percent. The percentage of Americans rendered homeless by Hurrican Katrina is the exact same percentage as the number of Jews made homeless by giving up Gaza, for the sake of so-called “peace” this CANNOT be a random occurrence.
And, Gaza became to front for Hamas, to launch over 8,000 rockets and mortar fire into innocent civilian towns, for 5 straight years of TERROR on the people of Israel.
Almighty God warns ALL those who would seek to expropriate land from Israel, and those who torment Israel, shall FALL.
Wuh bout de current situation in de Gulf Zoe?
Zoe; Dictionary;
Here’s an article that will warm the cockles of your hearts;
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/137997
Others might just be amused
Wait…GP..are you agreeing with Zoe that the disasters that hit the USA are a result of going against Israel?
Man be careful yuh, you in Miami in hurricane season…lol.
Dictionary said….’In the case of BU, freedom of expression, yes; but this does not confer a right to be irresponsible, bigoted, one-sided, biased, and slanderous
Does this apply to you and Zoe also?
What would you call a claim that Arafat ‘invented’ terrorism?
How about the claim that the earthquake in Haiti was because of voodoo worship?
Hey Techie;
Do you think it was an omen that there was heavy snow in Anchorage when I married my first wife?
Heavy shit man. I must start reading this Bible thing.
Any chance of dividing next week’s Lottery numbers?
@ ST..
That heavy snow was to show you the purity of your union. ROFL.
As for lotto numbers….still working on a probability formula.
@ GP, My brother, I don’t know about the situation in the Gulf, all I know is, that whoever messes with Israel, be it nation(s) especially forcing her to give up land, better watch out; cause ya not dealing with any man…!!!
Techie
Re Technician // June 11, 2010 at 8:05 PM
Wait…GP..are you agreeing with Zoe that the disasters that hit the USA are a result of going against Israel?
Man be careful yuh, you in Miami in hurricane season…lol.
=======================================
There seems to be a correlation man.
I cant say like if it was a science, but I can say that in August 2005 I was in Ft Lauderdale when Katrina passed over Fl as no threat and dumped some water in South FL.
On the same day we witnessed on tv the Jews evicted from their homes in Gaza. A few days later we saw 1/2 million folk in Louisianna evicted from their homes by Katrina.
We had four hurricanes in Central FL in 2004 but I was in Bonaire teaching. One wonders what this hurricane season will hold. We shall see. I make no predictions except those in the Word. LOL
PS: Onlookers, as a final follow up observe on sadly revealing, willfully selective hyperskepticism and the fallacy of the closed mind in action — here in the teeth of clear video evidence on what really happened on that ship a week or so ago.
To the point of patent reduction to absurdity.
One hopes that this will be a watershed for serious minded people in our region. For this is a case where we can see, step by step, what really happened that morning. As just one case in point, I link the analysis by the UK security expert that is one of eight videos on my blog post on the subject [linked above]:
The 40 activists on deck had — by the testimony of the ship’s crew and videos — taken over the upper deck, set up a command post, and armed themselves with metal pipes, sling shots, knives, clubs and firebombs [Molotov cocktails]. They plainly set on mauling and even killing — clubs, knives and metal rods are lethal weapons in a melee like we see — the soldiers enforcing what has been shown to be a legitimate blockade [merchantmen are not supposed to resist arrest and inspection for contraband by blockade enforcers on penalty of being subject to SINKING. At a certain point, on testimony backed up by inadvertent evidence from smuggled out videos and photos, the Israelis for good reason saw themselves at life risk (probably when someone put a gun to the head of a captured IDF soldier) and paintball guns were put aside as 9 mm Glock side arms were drawn in deadly earnest. It is plain from the fusillade of pistol shots heard 2 minutes in on the newest video, that a bayonet-charge type rush was stopped by the perimeter set up by Sgt S.
In short, it is those who set out on violence and blockade breaking in support of those who fired 6,000 rockets at Israeli civilian towns who brought on themselves the results of that violence, when simple compliance with the reasonable request to go to the NORMAL port for large vessels with cargo for Gaza — even before the blockade against military contraband — and have goods inspected and trucked to Gaza would have been the obvious humanitarian alternative.
D
Final FYI:
Onlookers, now that the warfare launched by Arafat on walking away from the table at Camp David in Sept 2000 has failed — and recall, the Palestinian Authority would have had: [1] 100% of Gaza (now lost to Hamas and Iran behind it), [2] 97% of W bank, with compensating land for the 3%, [3] E Jerusalem and likely Temple Mount (somebody hold back Zoe!), [4] a causeway between WB and Gaza, [5] US$ 15 Billion in aid and International support — in his recent US visit, he has stated willingness to compromise along the lines on the table and agreed to by then Israeli PM Barak in 2000 [and before that from 1967 on and before that from 1947- 49 on].
I have not seen any international headlining, but here it is from JP:
Q: Why wasn’t there a willingness to simply compromise along the lines of the Weizmann-Feisal Hussein agreement of 1919, and the compromises on the table since the 1940′s and the 1960′s, then?
A: Openly genocidal hate that led to two wars of attempted annihilation in 1948 and 1967 and which underlies the infamous Hamas Covenant Clause 7 citation of the gharqad tree hadith on massacring Jews as a sign of the end of days in Islamic eschatology. Absent that hate, a compromise could have long since been had between the legitimate claims of BOTH Jews and Arabs (as has been had with Druze and Circassians who are also Muslim people groups living in Israel — and serving in the Israeli army). But hate and violence flowing from hate led to the expenditure of thousands of lives and billions of wasted dollars, not to mention needless misery and the side-effect on oil price volatility and global economic instability.
For shame!
Oh crap…I have now truly understood Zoe’s logic!
Let’s see…the USA ‘messed’ with Israel in terms of asking the Israeli Government to remove the Illegal settlers, who where in breach of previous agreements (expanding settlements).
God then punished the USA by sending hurricane Katrina to kill, injure and decimate one, if not the most impoverished, poor and predominantly black
(Men, women and children) geographical areas for its(US) transgression. Collective punishment for messing wit the chosen ones, no matter if they are wrong or right….nice logic.
BUSH’S WAR ON GLOBAL TERRORISM:
Fact or Fiction?
Do you remember the Muslim bombing of
*Pan Am Flight 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland (1988)?
*TWA Flight 840 from England (1986)?
*The World Trade Center in 1993?
*The American Embassy in Beirut in 1983 & in 1984?
*The American Embassy in Kuwait (1983)?
*The Marine barracks in Lebanon (1983)?
*The American military barracks in Saudi Arabia (in
1995 & in 1996)?
*The American Embassies in Kenya and Tanzania
(1998)?
*The US Air Force Base in Rein-Main (1985)?
*The USS Cole (2000)?
*America on 9/11?
Will the world continue to ignore or support such evil forever, or will there ultimately be a “straw that breaks the camel’s back”? Are we merely paying lip service to the “war on terror”?
Israel, is the approximate size of New Jersey, the entire country of israel has a population equal to that of Madrid. Can you imagine; 6 MILLION Jews are surrounded by nearly 400,000,000 MILLION Arabs, the overwhelming majority of whom support murdering of Jews. To describe the situation as unbearable is to speak euphemistically. The land of Israel totals approximately 7,000 square miles, while adjacent Muslim territory consist of more than 6,700,000 SQUARE MILES.
Israel is 1/1000 the size of the 22 Arab countries in their immediate neighbourhood, and the INTENT to make TINY Israel even smaller, because, it is claimed, the surrounding region (6,700,00 SQUARE MILES) is not adequate in size to accommodate those who are commonly referred to as “Palestinian refugees”.
Yet, let us never forget, the UN had already expropriated 80% of the mandated LAND for Israel, to create a homeland for the “Palestinian” Arabs, and this land was given to Jordan, (Transjordan at the time) the REAL Palestinian state.
Zoe
Why do you try so very hard to get folk to see what they do not want to see.
Any sensible person can figure out that since the Arabs own more land than the tiny state of Israel that they could more easily accomodate the “Palestinians” in thier borders, and do so much more easily than Israel can.
Any sensible person can figure out that Israel is virtually surrounded by thier enemies.
Any sensible person can figure out that Israel’s survival as a national entity since 1948, when Exekiel’s prophecy of the dry bones came to fiulfillment is miraculous, and super natural.
A proper analysis reveals that the British Empire which was strong for almost four centuries started to wane after the issues surrounding the Balfour Declaration. Call it coincidence if you like. Mock and scoff at those who assert that this occurence might be due to Britain’s antisemtism at the time. But what is clear is that Britain is NOT great anymore!
Folk can also mock with scorn and be scoffing rude with respect to the association of events you listed with particular acts of antisemitism as much as they like. But however they migh wish to interpret the associations they are worthy of note.
Clearly the US officials may be unable to control the leaking well in the Gulf, but what is clear is that they ought to be able to better control the environmental fiasco that has resulted.
Whereas there are many methods that are available to deal with the oil and its effects on the land mass and on marine life, one wonders why very little is being done after 50 plus days.
I am wondering is this not a very good example of Ahithopel’s counsel being turned to naught?
There is no reason to try to defend Israel. God has done it in the past when they have been outnumbered cf the case in Jehosaphat’s reign in 2 Chron, and he will do so again. The prophetic scriptures say so in no uncertain terms.
Just wait and watch man.
As posted earlier, Great Britain was mandated with the responsibility for assisting the Jews towards the goal of establishing an independent and viable country in accordance with its map’s demarcations. But, within months of their being given this responsibility, Britain did the unthinkable by unilaterally lopping off 32, 460 square miles. First, they divided into two administrative districts with Jews permitted ONLY in the region west of the Jordan River. Then, to the east, the British installed a Hashemite as ruler in what became known as “Transjordan”. By making this division, the British effectively REDUCED the area available for the Jewish National Home to only 22% of the original land awarded; the entire area as designated by the League of Nations.
By granting Transjordan its independence, Great Britain had partitioned off the land with the intention of creating an INDEPENDENT PALESTINIAN STATE FOR ARABS east of the River Jordan. Therefore, JORDAN is the Palestinian State for Arabs by design.
But, it must be noted carefully, that Israel HAS a legal claim to the territory called JORDAN, because Great Britain, WITHOUT permission of the League of Nations, ILLEGALLY carved out, lopped off 80% of the land that was allocated for the Jews by this World Body.
But, as if losing 80% of their land wasn’t bad enough, the UN proposed a further partitioning of the land with a reduction of the Jewish share to 5, 560 square miles, a mere 13% of the original allotment. The Arabs were offered the West Bank and Gaza, in addition to the privious allocation of Transjordan. Proposed borders were totally indefensible and 75% of the revised allocation consisted of desert land. If you think that was bad, you should see the proposed configuration of the land.
Surprisingly, the Jews accepted the “crumbs” from the UN. But, the plan was REJECTED by the Arabs, despite the FACT that the Arabs were being offered the West Bank AND Gaza in addition to 80% of Jewish mandated land; the entire area east of the Jordan River. The Arabs rejected the offer and THE WEST BANK AND GAZA REMAINED UNDER JEWISH SOVEREIGNTY in accorance with the 1946 demarcation.
The question is, did the Arabs reject the plan because they felt an injustice had occurred, in that they were now being granted MOST of the Jewish allotment, and that their share of the land was too large, OR, that they had ALREADY been granted 22 COUNTRIES, while the Jews only received one? Or, did the Arabs reject the offer of the West Bank and Gaza, because they had already been granted land that WAS/IS a Palestinian homeland in TRANSJORDAN, now JORDAN?
The obvious ANSWER to the question, was broadcast for ALL to hear, when the Arabs announced to WAGE WAR, a WAR of *EXTERMINATION* and momentous *masscre* which would be spoken of “like the Mongolian massacres and the Crusades.” (BBC broadcast, May 15, 1948).
The issue was NEVER an existential one, NOR, a territorial one. The ISSUE, WAS then, and STILL IS, There would be NO JEWISH State; and so the Arabs nations INVADED Israel, 1948-49, to DESTROY and ANNIHILATE the State of Israel, and Jews from the face of the earth.
Today, Arabs are clamoring for possession of the West Bank and East Jerusalem, they were given Gaza, which Hamas has USED to Terrorize Israel with, over 8,000 rockets fired into innocent Israeli territory. Today, they blame the suicide-homicide bombings on the “desperation of occupation”. When the Arabs were preparing to invade Israel in 1967, what were they really thinking? At that POINT in time, when they were ALREAY forcibly and illegally *Occupying* the West Bank and East Jerusalem (under Jordanian rule) and Gaza (under Egyptian rule), at that point in time, WHY did they want to attack Israel, when they already had the land, which they are now demanding in the year 2006?
Additionally, in 1948 the Arabs possessed even more land than they controlled in 1967; so WHAT was their purpose in invading Israel in 1948? What did the Arabs want in 1948, when they were being awarded nearly the entire Jewish area, including Gaza and the West Bank? Lastly, consider this. The PLO was created at an Arab Summit meeting in 1964, note, *1964*. This date IS siginificant, because in 1964, Jordan contolled the disputed West Bank and Gaza territories, and NOT a single Jew lived there, as yet. Interestingly, in the original PLO Charter of that year, Article 24 explicitely stated:
“This Organization DOES NOT exercise ANY territorial sovereignty over the WEST BANK…or the GAZA or in the Himmah area.”
In other words, the PLO effectively announced to the world, that they DID NOT consider these lands to be Palestinian lands.
NOTE CAREFULLY” It was ONLY after 1967, that the PLO ‘accidentitally DISCOVERED’ that these areas were Palestinian lands from time immemorial. The PLO Charter WAS then revised to reflectt the ‘newly discovered’ information.
A Lebanese activist summed it up beautifully:
“They blame suicide bombing on “desperation of occupation”. Let me tell you the TRUTH. The first major TERROR bombing committed by Arabs against the Jewish state occurred TEN WEEKS before Israel even became independent. On Sunday morning, February 22, 1948, in anticipation of Israel’s independence, a TRIPLE TRUCK BOMB was detonated by Arab TERRORISTS on Ben Yehudah Street in what was then the Jewish section of Jerusalem. Fifty-four people were killed and hundred were wounded. Thus, it is OBVIOUS that Arab TERROISM is caused NOT by the “desperation” or “occupation”, BUT, the VERY THOUGHT of a Jewish State.”
The Arabs, DO NOT WANT, the State of Israel to EXIST, PERIOD.
GP, any sensible man also knows the weapons Israel have in their possession (nuclear). The capability of their Air Force and their Military strength. Israeli males are required to join the IDF (which, as ludicrous as it sounds gives to the argument of the Palestinians, that all Israeli males are soldiers…like I said, ludicrous)
You all have your prophecy to fulfil but the way I see it,it is America and Britain, who protects Israel as it is now and natural disasters are just that….natural. It is the cycle of nature, just take a look at the wild and you will see a vicious but necessary cycle of life, what makes us any different?
Zoe
It is obvious that the facts that you logically expound can not be refuted. But in keeping with the prophetic Psalms on this matter that the the whole world would rage against the Jews, we see an amazing amount of bias being exhibited. Time is longer than twine.
Romans chapter two predicts that the Jews will be judged by God because of their actions their attitude and thier advantages. This hgas come to pass and continuses up until now. But several scritures predict that they will repent of thier sins at the second coming on seeing him who they pierced, and that their end will be better than thier course.
People could accept that and believe it or they can discount it and reject it. We shall soon see and know who is correct.
Technician
You are of course aware that other nations have nuclear weapons, and capable Air Forces, and military might.
You are of course also aware that other nations require their males to join their armed focres. We know that there are large standing armies in eastern countries that have alreadty reached the numbers predicted by the prophetic scriptures that the Kings of the East will amass for the Nattle of Armageddon.
So your point is?
We have no prophesies to fulfill Sir.
We have noted that all the Biblical prophecies except those related to the eschaton have been fulfilled very accurately just as predicted. Consequently we expect the other prophecies so far unfulfilled to be as accurately fulfilled.
This we believe, as is our right. Scoffers and scorners also have the right to disagree and not believe.
The way I see it America and Britain will soon not be able to protect thenmselves far less Israel. However, they will rally to their side when the oil is discovered as predicted by Jacob in Genesis 49, and broker the psdeudo peace that will be in place in the first 3.5 years of the tribulation.
Do you know that manna did not come from heaven?
Do you know that it is quite natural for manna to be dispersed throug the air NATURALLY from the trees on which they grow?
However, manna does not fall in specific locations to accomodate over a millin people on the march such that the exact amount fell to suffice the children of Israel daily and twice as much o the day before the Sabbath. Nor does it do this NATURALLY for 40 years only to cease falling abruptly when they entered the promise land.
Now if we are to believe that account then theur had to be a supernatural hand guiding the “natural” dont you think. Perhaps you dont think so. But I believe that the storm that hit the President’s fathers home in Maine on a specific day thoufh “natural”: was guided to its target supernaturally.
And I find it most abnormal that in the so called greatest country in the world ever that the after 54 days no consensus can be made to even begin to prevent the devastaion effects on the ecology and environment in the Gulf. I can only conlude that Ahithopel has struck again!
.
n
You all have your prophecy to fulfil but the way I see it,it is America and Britain, who protects Israel as it is now and natural disasters are just that….natural. It is the cycle of nature, just take a look at the wild and you will see a vicious but necessary cycle of life, what makes us any different?
It is said that Israel has between 100-200 nuclear warheads; more than enough to annihilate ALL of the Arab capitals within 24 hours or less; yet, she only uses a fraction of her military might, in defending herself against the Arabs that want and DESIRE, vehemently to DESTROY Israel completely.
If the Arab states, especially Hamas, Hezbollah, and Iran, had a fraction of Israel’s military might, Israel would not exist, yes!!!
In light of this scenario, WHO ARE THE REAL *Terrorist*, evil minded ones?
@ZOE
Why is it tht the arabs are attacking Israel.I don’t see them attacking other neighbouring countries. Then that makes me ask Why Isreal?
“WHO are the real Terrorist”. ALL those who harm even the smallest among. That includes Isreal. Pray tell me she hasn/’t done so!
THE PROPHECY OF “REJUVENATION”
Certainly, the Land of Israel’s bountifulness was magnificent for the first 1500 years after the Exodus from Egypt, but, the subsequent 1800 year-long miracle of deficiency and deprivation was also impressive in its own right; besides the ‘unexpectedness’ of its appearance and the absense of scientific explanation to account for this phenomenon. Yet, several other miracles were appended and these miracles were most remarkable due, also, to their sudden and rationally inexplicable appearance.
After 1800 years of drought and with no scientific explanation, the hills of Israel, the promised land of the Jewish people, began blossoming at the turn of the 20th Century. You must pay attention to what follows:
For more than 1500 years the Holy Land blossomed, and then for the next 1800 years, after their exile, it didn’t rain for the Jews of Palestine. It didn’t rain for the Romans. It didn’t rain for the Mongols. It didn’t rain for the Crusaders. It didn’t rain for the Turks. It didn’t rain for anybody for 1800 years. And then, for no apparent reason, at the turn of the 20th Century, for the first time in nearly two millennia, the Holy Land suddenly began to experience normal amounts of rainfall, amounts necessary to sustain all life. Also, with no apparent scientific explanation, earthquakes stopped killing people. Can any one really believe that these events were simply acts of happenstance, nature working through its cycles? Utter nonsense.
If this sudden resumption of rain wasn’t remarkable enough, another monumental event occurred. After a very prolonged absense of 1800 years, and again, with no reasonable explanation, the Jews suddenly begin resettling the Holy Land in the early 1900s. Millions would return to the Holy Land in the 20th Century. so now, in the beginning of the 20th Century, with no logical explanation:
*Suddenly and coincidentally, 1800 years of horrible
drought end.
*Suddenly and coincidentally, the rains begin.
*Suddenly and coincidentally, the reoccurring
destructive earthquakes stop killing people.
*Suddenly and coincidentally, the ‘randomly’ appearing
locust plagues also disappear.
*Suddenly and coincidentally, the Land begins to
BLOSSOM.
*Suddenly and coincidentally, Jews return to the Land in
thousands, and without a cohisive and rational
explanation, millions of Jews will follow.
Do ALL these events really crop up so suddenly, coincidentally, and without scientific explanation? These events appear to occur without rhyme or reason, only if one doesn’t study God’s Word in the Old Testament, and is, thus OBLIVIOUS to prophecy. A person who is ignorant and oblivious to the prophetic Scriptures of God’s Word, the Bible, would NEVER be able to note how these unusual series of events are foretold in the greatest detail. Such a person would NEVER be able to note how these unusual series of events COMBINE into one magnificent and Divinely orchestrated pattern. On the other hand, the one who studies will note how God’s Word even describes the societal conditions under which these miracles unfold.
We are told by Almighty God, in His Word:
“Behold, the days ARE COMING, says the Almighty…the mountains will drip the nectar fruits…I WILL BRING BACK THE CAPTIVES of My people ISRAEL and they will build desolate cities and settle them; they will plant vinyards and drink their wine; they will cultivate gardens and eat their fruits. I WILL PLANT them UPON THEIR LAND and they WILL NEVER again be uprooted from THEIR LAND that I HAVE GIVEN THEM” (Amos 9: 13-15) emphasis added.
And so it happened that for 660,000 days that was virtually NO RAIN-FALL and for 660,000 days there were many, many resultant deaths. Then, as the Bible describes and declares, in anticipation of many, many returing Jews, the LAND suddenly begins to BLOSSOM once again.
Similarly, Almighty God announces in Ezekiel:
“But, you, the mountains of Israel – you will give forth blossoming branches and produce your luscious fruit for MY PEOPLE ISRAEL, for they ARE SOON TO ARRIVE..The land will be tilled and sown. I WILL make the people numerous – the entire House of Israel. I WILL make it better than it ever was…They will Inherit the LAND which will be theirs for a possession and the Land will NEVER AGAIN be bereaved of them.” (Ezekiel 36: 8-12) emphasis added.
As an aside, consider a few of non-agricultural creations by the Jews:
The cell phone technology, most of the Windows NT and XP operatings systems, the Pentium MMX Chip technology, the Pentium-4 microprocessor and the Centrino processor, voice mail technology, and the technology for AOL, Instant Messenger ICO. On a per-capita basis, Israel leads the world in the number of published books & scientific papers, startup companies, NASDAQ listed companies, museums, and college degrees. Israel also has the highest concentration of hi-tec companies and one of the highest rates of filed patents. Recent developments also include; the first ingestible video camera (so small it fits inside a pill), a device that helps the heart pump blood (through a sophisticated system of sensors), the first fully computerized, no-radiation instrumentation for detecting breat cancer, the ClearLight device that causes acne bacteria to self-destruct (without damaging surrounding skin or tissue), and a large-scale solar-powered electricity generating plant in Califirnia. Israel’s $100 billion economy is larger than all of its immediate neighbors combined, and Israel’s living standards already exceed that of England.
So, the Almighty provides us with two more great prophecies about the Holy Land.
*There will be no rain falling during the prolonged absence of most of its Jews.
*The rains will suddenly resume for the sake of the masses of Jews who are about to return.
It is mind-boggling; no rain for 1800 years, and then, just as incredible, rains begin to suddenly fall simply because Jews are once again returning to Israel. no rain and, then, the sudden resumption of rain, both happening as predicted. This is beyond the realm of coincidence; 1800 years of drought, in and of itself, is an unbelievable miracle and very mighty prophecy; especially in a region which produced such bounty during its first 1500 years. This most prolonged drought ends ‘unexpectedly’ again, as predicted, when Jews begin returning to the Land in great numbers. This is a double prophecy whose supernatural qualities can NEVER be captured by our limited language
The development is nether logical nor statistically probable:
*A once fertile land that suffers deought.
*1800 years of starvation and desert conditions,
*Then the surprising resumption of RAIN.
*Then the sudden greening of the Land.
*Just as suddenly, the ultimate RETURN of millions of Jews.
Only the Omnipotent Creator, Almighty God, of historic Divine revelation, and fulfillment of HIS Word, could bring ALL of these events to pass, exactly as He said, He would.
Facts are stubborn things, and only the stubborn, REUSE to accept them.
So it be!!!
Oh, well:
Re: >>“WHO are the real Terrorist”. ALL those who harm even the smallest among. That includes Isreal. Pray tell me she hasn/’t done so! >>
The counsels of Ahitophel turned to futility, again; through selectively hyperskeptical inconsistency and demands for an impossible perfection, so soon as the Jewish state is involved. That ends in moral reductio ad absurdum.
Start with the policeman on the street corner to see this. Is s/he a “terrorist” for using his or her gun to protect the public from armed and dangerous criminals? Even if the criminals are wounded or killed in the process? (Would that be any different from the degree of responsibility and culpability of a bank robber who in trying to escape kills or wounds a cop?)
If by accident, s/he kills an innocent bystander while defeating a violent bank robber, is that policeman suddenly converted into a “terrorist”?
[What about the case of the Boston city cop who shot a pepper-ball round to suppress overly boisterous Red Sox fans, only to hit Victoria Snelgrove, a bystander, in the eye; who suffered a bone fracture that led her to die 12 hours later? Is that any different from the case in Iran where Gov't snipers deliberately shot Neda Agha Soltan, a bystander to protests against a stolen election, a year ago. If one cannot see the plain difference between these cases, then one has come to moral reductio ad absurdum.]
Similarly, a bit over a year ago, the Montserrat Coast patrol cops were involved in a regional drug smuggling incident where criminals loaded up an open speedboat in Venezuela and ran up the island chain to St Marten at about 70 mph. On the way back, they ran into the French from Guadeloupe in a blocking position, with Antigua coming up behind, and ran in towards the little Montserrat patrol rigid inflatable, which had to be handled with gumption and skill. By the time the charge was stopped, two smugglers were dead and the most incriminating evidence had apparently been tossed overboard. Was the Sgt of the Mrat patrol involved a “terrorist”?
And while there are differing degrees of responsibility and/or culpability involved in such cases, there is no excuse for failing to mark the key distinctions.
Local criminals are in this regard, domestic, often for-profit, enemies of the civil peace of justice. The Venezuelan drug smugglers are foreign criminals.
There are also states that are enemies of the civil peace of justice. Including de facto states, and sometimes including an otherwise legitimate state gone bad with rulers turned tyrant.
Failing to make proper moral distinctions on such matters — here, plainly due to the desire to reduce the Jewish State to moral equivalency of its enemies who deliberately and principally target civilians — is an absurd position. And it brings us right back to the point that Amb Oren has made so tellingly: if Israel is repeatedly censured and delegitimised whatever it does to practically protect its citizens from those who would attack and murder them (e.g. 6,000 rockets targetting Sderot and other towns), then those who imagine themselves to be promoting peace thereby are stoking the flames of a major and possibly nuclear war.
For — for all the sins of Britain and France (including those of Churchill) — there was a proper moral distinction to be made between these countries and Germany under Hitler. (To put it bluntly: those who refuse to respect the force of the logic of moral suasion can only be stopped by the logic of force.)
And those who lose the ability to mark that distinction and exert pressure to refrain from taking effective steps to restrain a Hitler before he gets completely out of hand, bear a certain degree of responsibility for the conflagration they thereby enable.
Whether or not they are willing to acknowledge it.
D
@Dictionary
Isreal dropping tons of warheads on villages is not the same as a policeman going after a drug dealer.
YOur Spirutual Leader Said”In as much as you have done it to the least among us you have done it unto me ”
Isreal stole that land from the Palestinians in the dead night.”So who are the real Terrorist”
FYI, AC:
You have already been referred to corrective and balancing information; which you plainly refuse to seriously engage on a reasonable basis. Your position is reducing itself to ever more plainly painful and sad degrees of absurdity.
(E.g. Shouldn’t it bother you — cf the excerpt from the report on his trip to the US: June 12, 2010 at 8:07 AM above in this thread — that the President of the Palestinian Authority, as cited above, does not take your “stolen land” by “alien colonisers” position, once the futility of 80+ years of trying to expel and/or massacre Jews in their historic homeland has again been made plain after thousands of lives have been lost and billions of dollars of wealth has been destroyed? As you know or should know, on a survey of relevant history, it is my strongly held view that BOTH Jews and Arabs have legitimate claims in the Holy Land, and — along with the Druze, Circassians, Bedouin, Samaritans [yes, they still exist] , resident Greeks [2000+ yrs], Christian churches, Bahai exiles from Iran [world HQ for the Bahai faith is now in Israel] etc, should come to reasonable compromises. Not counting the Weizmann-Feisal Hussein Versailles side agreement of 1919 [and its wider League of Nations -- predecessor to the UN of today -- context of seeking to settle national claims across the board], such have been on the table since 1948, since 1967 and again since September 2000 when the latest spiral of violence and war were again initiated from the Arab side.)
Surely, we can do better than this.
— D
PS: For a basic discussion on the Biblical theology and ethics of government under God, cf here please. Goodbye.
Those who writes history in doing so writes that with which they agree on and the same applies to those who read them!
I take your point that “those who refuse to respect the force of the logic of moral suasion can only be stopped by the logic of force.”
The Palestinians, the Arab world and the UN are rendered impotent by Israel’s
rejection of moral suasion.
The UN is unfortunately a paper tiger, but it is all we have as a world forum, and by being in multiple violations of its resolutions Israeli government is behaving similarly to Hitler’s (e.g. The Sudetenland) and needs to be restrained before they get completely out of hand.
Oren’s chilling remark typifies the Zionist attitude, if we lose the argument, no matter we carry on blithely administering the law of the jungle, ignoring every peaceful initiative until we get what we say is a just settlement.
Israel’s one sided approach of choosing which laws to obey even citing them in their defence, whilst ignoring and breaking the inconvenient ones, cannot continue.
Those who defend it bear a certain degree of responsibility for the conflagration they thereby enable.
Whether or not they are willing to acknowledge it.
By the way are you still compiling the list of the president’s consistent threats of genocide, or do you now admit you attempted to mislead the blog?
Re Israel needs to be restrained. LOL
By whom? LOL
Talk talk talk wunnuh cant do a ting wid Israel Lol
Not a thing
I thought Dictionary was gone for good (his words to this effect).
It is sad to see that because of prophecy, people who should know and do better, would rather ignore human suffering, injustices and collective punishment of a People to justify a claim of the chosen ones. It is heartening though, that even as I read the posts from the ‘believers’ on this blog, there is a subtle difference in their views. This I find to be amusing at the least, expected at most.
@ Technician
Dictionary is a ‘christian’, did you expect him to keep his word….?
…..and as is often the case, your analysis of this situation is so right, that one wonders about our scholars.
~Let us say that the Jews ARE indeed the chosen ones.
~Let us also agree that, having been accorded that status by the ultimate referee, they do enjoy special protection from other “unchosen” mortals’ discipline…
…..what has any of these factors got to do with the condemnation of their past and current crimes against the Palestinians?
I am seeing a ‘discussion’ where some are seeing that the actions of the Israelis are criminal, genocidal, and downright wicked.
The Trinity’s counter argument seems to be that these people are ‘chosen’ so we should accept whatsoever they do – and don’t even criticize them…..
Listen people!
Being ‘chosen’ is no big deal. There are many doctors in Barbados, I can’t deal with them all, so Bush Tea has ‘chosen’ the one that, for me, represents doctors. It is to him that I talk, curse, listen(occasionally) and complain.
…seems like the same situation with BBE and these ‘Jews’ to the bushman.
Now obviously if this ultimate referee ‘chooses’ a set of people for his own specific reference, he could reasonably be expected to reserve to himself any rights to their discipline, reward, chastisement etc. After all, who knows what unusual stresses and strains may have been applied in the course of his ‘consultations’ with this people.
Even a lowly bushman, who as you may have unofficially heard, is one of BBE’s boys, enjoys a similar privilege (touch not the Lord’s anointed)….LOL
HOWEVER!
None of the above has any implication that these ‘chosen ones’ are beyond reproach. On the contrary, one should expect that such persons should be role models of righteousness – (Lights to the world).
While it is true therefore, that no mere mortal can decide to discipline ‘the Lord’s anointed’, one shudders to think of the kind of discipline that the ultimate referee HIMSELF will dispense should his ‘chosen’ ones not only fail to show forth the expected light, but actually become glaring examples of crass wickedness and evil as the Israelis have become.
This school of thought among christians of the Trinity ilk, that ‘having been chosen, one’s fruit does NOT matter’ is at the heart of their position.
But as the Bushman has always said, ……with respect to the true children of God, one shall know them BY THEIR FRUIT! …and that fruit is characterized by LOVE!
http://www.iamthewitness.com/books/Andrew.Carrington.Hitchcock/Synagogue.of.Satan/index.htm
@ BT…
Yes!! I did!!
As one who is always chastising us about morality, truth,civility and honesty etc, I thought his word was his bond. I hope when we lesser mortals go back on our word that there is no mocking or scoffing from him or others of his ilk.
As for the topic of the discussion, I look at it from a humanitarian point of view. The biblical aspect is not my forte as I was sent out from Sunday school class at 7 years old for asking what I thought was a fair question to the pastor.
If God made a mistake, how would we know or how can we tell….a question I thought was fair coming from a 7 year old. This was later repeated at the SJPP, when my Christian instructor refused to speak to me for saying that you do not or cannot die before your time.
I honestly was trying to learn and search some more in the early days of BU but then the attitudes and the arrogance of those who were supposed to know and be better, showed me….let’s just say otherwise.
The bottom line for me is this, regardless of what nation status you place on Israel, biblical prophecy et all, they should still be held accountable and condemned for any wrong doing just as forcibly as you would Hamas or Iran.
For those who live in this world but have no sympathy or compassion to their brothers in time of suffering and need, I say shame on you. If you are living just for the fulfilment of prophecy, why then do you build a house and have a job, alng with a large bank account? You all should be sitting waiting patiently,the trappigs of the world should mean nothing to you all.
Onlookers:
Observe carefully who has addressed matters on the merits, and who is ducking away from summarising or linking relevant factual materials.
Consider also — do take time to watch the eight videos — how on the original post above the trumpeted opinions in the major media on the flotilla incident are plainly and directly contradicted by a simple but careful examination of the videotaped evidence, photographs and eyewitness reports. Multiply that gap between trumpeted opinions and poisonous assertions and the evident truth by 10,000 times, and you will begin to appreciate what has happened to how so many of us view the issues in the middle east.
Again, take time to listen to what Abbas has had to acknowledge and seek, once he stood before an informed audience — “a Brookings Institution forum . . . . [including for example ] former US ambassador to Israel Martin Indyk, vice president of Brookings . . . . [among] 30 leaders of major Jewish organizations, former national security advisors and think tank experts” — and once he has had to deal with the fact that ten years ago the Palestinian Arabs under Arafat walked away from the best deal they could reasonably have had, and found the flimsiest excuse to go to war that has cost thousands of lives and billions of wasted wealth :
I think that if Mr Abbas can lay aside ever so much of the agit-prop put forth by his side and get serious [at least, in the presence of an informed audience], it is now high time for some foolish and poisonous, unduly polarising, ill-informed accusations to be put to one side, and to seriously deal with the problems. Starting with the case at the head of this thread, which reveals so starkly for all to see just how sadly wrenched international opinions and media are away from basic duties of care to truth and fairness.
Well did Aristotle warn in his The Rhetoric, Bk I Ch 2:
If Mr Abbas could calm down and come to grips with the patent legitimacy of Jewish rootedness in the Middle East and now — after ten wasted years that have unnecessarily cost thousands their lives and billions in destroyed wealth — seeks a compromise, it is time for us in the Caribbean to take a leaf out of his book.
“A word to the wise is more than enough . . .”
Goodbye
D
@ Dictionary…
Has Israel ever ignored Resolutions handed down by the UN?
Do you believe that Israel does any wrongdoing to the Palestinians just as Hamas has done wrong to Israel?
Do you think Israel uses proportionate force when dealing with Palestinians?
Does the siege and the collective punishment of innocent people in Gaza,contribute to stability in the ME or is it counter productive?
These are simple questions to a man of your capacity, mainly yes or no would suffice.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/01/21/muslims-angry-military-jesus-rifles/
http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/news/why-is-this-haggadah-different-from-others-well-it-s-got-jesus-1.273114
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/codex_magica/codex_magica21.htm
Technician et al,
I saw a grave injustice that has made me take time to come back and correct a major slander, despite my severe reluctance to subject myself to the rhetorical muck that has increasingly become par for the course at BU.
Just as, this morning, I intervened in a stone throwing incident across the road, and called the police in when words were not enough corrective.
For the same reason.
And if you don’t understand that (and why I would give such a priority over wishing to simply keep away from a mess), that says more than anything else almost — except for the persistent refusal to deal with issues on the merits, instead resorting to distractions, distortions, denigration and division.
Good day.
D
Technician
Man why you wont leave Dictionary alone nuh man?
‘The man got the right to go and come back man He got the right to change he mind under “free speech.”
You and others seems to understand our position man
No one is rather ignoring human suffering, injustices and collective punishment of a people to justify a claim of the chosen ones. These guys are at war man. There will be human suffering, injustices in war.
Apart from war, human suffering and injustices are rampant. I have seen such all my life. I have also undergone suffering and injustices. Such is life. This you can not deny.
Because one does not talk talk talk does not mean that any one ignores anything. I think my colleagues are focusing on other aspects of the conflict. They have the right to do so
It should be expected that we should have different views to you guys, and to have different foci between us. After all we do not sit in a huddle and agree to hold any particular position. We are after all individuals.
One thing I am sure that we have in common is an understanding of and a belief in the end time prophecies.
I wont be judging Israel and I wont be condemning the Arabs. I know the History I understand certain positions held by the eschatologists, and I have my beliefs and positions. And NO ONE on BU will get me to join in hate against the Jews.
I plan to keep on observing what is happening and prepare for the rapture. In my view it is for every man woman and child to seek to make their calling and election sure. That is my focus. I love to discuss what the Bible teaches and I concentrate on that/ Like all eschatologists I am interested in seeing where current affairs fits into prophecies of the end time. I can not see that taking up a position contrary to the position of you guys is an expression of a lack of love.
AS far as i have witnessed on this blog it is evident that the battle lines are drawn
i.e. Easrt vs. West. May the truth win!
D,
So let us be clear……
In support of a “legal blockade”, the IDF is justified in using deadly force against civilians on a unarmed ship loaded not with arms but with cement in order to prevent breach of a blockade.
Deadly force is legal against an unarmed civilian ship loaded with cement?
Is it the moral choice?
Why were other less deadly less risky options not explored since we were dealing with a civilian ship with civilians (not soldiers) and the cargo was not arms but rather cement, and toys.
For example, disabling the propellers and towing the ship as suggested by a former mossad agent.
i.e.EAST VS WEST
@Not Saved
What kinda question is that for”D” . That answer is not in the bible, but then again he might find a passage or verse to justify their inactions
@Not Saved
BU’s view is that the IDF had orders to repel with force, the act itself to be used as a PR measure and held up as a deterrent.
The idea of frequent runs to test the blockade would present a clear and present threat.
Technician
Re As for the topic of the discussion, I look at it from a humanitarian point of view. The biblical aspect is not my forte
In like manner my interest is the eschatology. I am interested in how does current affairs fit into what the prophets taught.
You opine “The bottom line for me is this, regardless of what nation status you place on Israel, biblical prophecy et all, they should still be held accountable and condemned for any wrong doing just as forcibly as you would Hamas or Iran.”
How do you know that they are not held accountable.
To whom do you want them held accountable? BU commentators who are often biased irrational and emotional?
Re
If you are living just for the fulfilment of prophecy, why then do you build a house and have a job, alng with a large bank account? You all should be sitting waiting patiently,the trappigs of the world should mean nothing to you all.
Should believers not obey the command to occupy till he comes? LOL
How do know you that the BU trinity and many Christians are not trying to obey the tenets of 1 John 2:15-17?
I certainly believe that the world is passing away and all the things you mention. But I have often been criticized here on BU for holding that position too.
I am really enjoying the debate and the judging.
Its so very funny.
You guys can talk till the cows come home, but can your chatter change any thing. Thats why I tell Zoe to let you guys chat on and just keep quiet.
I aint arguing wid a soul on this issue, I watching and waiting to see wuh gwine happen cause I cant do a ting bout wuh happening.
D,
Again a clarification….
The professional soldiers boarding the unarmed ship with unarmed civilians (oops sorry armed with kitchen equipment and clubs etc, lets say unarmed with professional weapons) in the open sea, these were the DEFENDERS who acted DEFENSIVELY.
And the unarmed civilians aboard the unarmed civilian ship loaded with cement (and toys) and who remained on their ship and were boarded by soldiers, these were the ATTACKERS right?
Have I understood your position correctly?
D,
“do take time to watch the eight video”
Yes I agree.
But I would like to watch all the videos not just the edited versions. I would like to watch the confiscated versions too.
I would like to see the videos of the activists being killed “defensively”
That would help everyone, no?
@BU.David: “BU’s view is that the IDF had orders to repel with force, the act itself to be used as a PR measure and held up as a deterrent.
My direct question to you BU.David: Do you agree with this position? Do you agree that people should die “…as a PR measure…”?
@BU.David: “The idea of frequent runs to test the blockade would present a clear and present threat.
A “clear and present threat” to whom, exactly?
D,
“instead resorting to distractions, distortions, denigration and division. ”
But D, you are guilty on almost all counts.
Distractions? the thread is about the flotilla incident and you start making the case for Israel’s roots in the middle east. (Anyone on this thread dispute that?)
Distortons?, you stand charged by Straight talk, any response?
Denigrations? Well we could make a blog post on this alone. Did you not just “denigrate” a poster as “unworthy to comment”. I think was called “sick”. Tech you called a “jihadi”. When it comes to underhand nasty comments, frankly you are the KING !
Division? No further comment necessary.
D,
another question…….
If the blockade is legal, with Israel having effective control over the airspace, the air and sea ports and control of all goods into Gaza, is Gaza an “occupied territory”?
D,
“Just as, this morning, I intervened in a stone throwing incident across the road, and called the police in when words were not enough corrective.”
What a hero !
But do you realise that on our various threads on BU, you are one the few who advocate “violence” as a potential solution to conflict?
@Chris
BU’s position maybe considered as very simplistic. NO BU at a philosophical level believes people whether Israeli or Arab should NOT have to die in this way. The pragmatic view is that Israel finds itself in a very difficult position surrounded by big bad neighbours. What is Israel to do now that the matter has deteriorated to such a degree? Go to bed knowing cobras are under the sheets? Like Yardbroom and others have opined this ME matter is now untenable. It will take an epiphany like episode to bring some equilibrium of sorts to bear.
The answer above serves to answer the second question.
D,
“Just as, this morning, I intervened in a stone throwing incident across the road, and called the police in when words were not enough corrective.”
“those who refuse to respect the force of the logic of moral suasion can only be stopped by the logic of force.”
Why did you just not shoot the rock throwing bastards, since “words” did not work?
D,
If the “legal” blockade is to stop arms, why does the following occur….
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jan/20/gaza-blockade-health-risk-report
he health of 1.4 million people is being put at risk by the ongoing Israeli and Egyptian blockade of Gaza, a report by more than 80 humanitarian organisations warned today.
Some extracts….
“The aid groups, including the World Health Organisation and UN agencies, said more than one-fifth of sick Palestinians who needed to leave the territory for treatment in Israel had either been refused or had their applications delayed. The groups called on Israel and Egypt to open the border crossings with Gaza.”
++++
“The agencies highlighted the case of a student, Fidaa Hijji, who died of cancer while waiting for Israeli permission to go to hospital for a bone marrow operation.
Repeated applications to cross the border were ignored even though Hijji, who was 18 when her cancer was diagnosed in 2007, had confirmed medical appointments.”
+++
From the wiki…
“According to the UN Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs at various times, Israel has blocked goods including wheelchairs, dry food items, and crayons, stationary, soccer balls, and musical instruments.[54][55][56] International aid group Mercy Corps said it was blocked from sending 90 tons of macaroni and other foodstuffs”
++++
Can you explain how these things happen because of a “legal” blockade against arms?
D,
Also from the wiki…
“Israeli human rights organization Gisha, the Legal Center for Freedom of Movement, obtained an Israeli government document which says “A country has the right to decide that it chooses not to engage in economic relations or to give economic assistance to the other party to the conflict, or that it wishes to operate using ‘economic warfare,’ “. [73] Sari Bashi, the director of Gisha, said that this shows that Israel isn’t imposing its blockade for its stated reasons of a security measure to prevent weapons from entering Gaza, but rather as collective punishment for the Palestinian population of Gaza.[73]”
+++
Arms blockade or economic warfare?
Explain?
David,
“The idea of frequent runs to test the blockade would present a clear and present threat.”
A threat to what?
Civilian ships with supplies only and not arms is a threat to ;
- an arms blockade, or
- economic warfare?
Which is it?
@Not Saved
If you feed the enemy well and they get stronger then what?
David,
“BU’s view is that the IDF had orders to repel with force,”
Yes David, but “force” in the context of a “legal” blockade needs to be “proportional” if the act is to be legal?
Sending armed professional soldiers to board a civilian ship with civilians aboard not loaded with arms is not only disproportionate but reckless, dangerous and idiotic.
“force” could have been disabling the ship.
@David,
“If you feed the enemy well and they get stronger then what?”
But David, if Gaza is “enemy” territory and Israel hold effective control over the enemy territory, they are bound by the 4th Geneva convention. That makes the economic warfare a war crime.
Ironic here David, that the “amoral” atheist finds himself arguing the moral position rather than merely the pragmatic or the legal, no?
Gp…
You have just posted, what IMHO is pure BS!!
I say that without apology!!
You did the dog on ROK when he said he was leaving…ah lie?
Who the hell is Dictionary that he should get any different treatment!!
You also claim you wouldn’t judge Israel or condemn Arabs…more BS as you have done so on this thread already. I am using a BB cell so to cut and paste is a bit tedious but I am sure you can scroll up to find it.
I challenge you, Zoe and Dictionary to show or find one person on BU who HATES Jews. However I bet you can find in droves, those who find the actions of Israel despicable, unjust, illegal and even unChristian. So tell me again, who is judging who.
Why don’t you comment on the other snide remarks and comments, not to mention the labelling done by your Christian brothers? You guys are the ones judging the most and labelling people but I guess as long as it is done in God’s name, defending the chosen people, it is ok…and we wonder how the world get so!
Interestingly, the worldwide economic troubles will act as a catalyst to international policital conflict, especially but not limited to the Middle East.
The European countries are still biting their teeth, placing fical measures to attempt an imporvement in economic growth and stability, the Japan foreign minister has just last week put out a statements explaining the worries of that Government, of its debt/ GDP ratio (up around 200%) and there appears to be no end in sight.
Such an environment will force certain countries to limit funds for military use and thus will impact on both defence and agression for various nations, such as those in the Middle East.
In short, the economic situation is indirectly going to bring the Middle East to the brink of war, within the next three years.
@technician
What the hell. Seems like everything according to the interpretors of the King James Bible is all predestined. Therefore whatever others might think or say doesn’t matter.
@technician
HI Boo
Still have time for those early morning bike rides.
Technician
Re
You have just posted, what IMHO is pure BS!!
I say that without apology!!
Your knickers in a twist man LOL
You did the dog on ROK when he said he was leaving…ah lie? Yes you lie LOL
I didnt do no dog or cat. I said he would be back And I was right He came back and got a proper whipping (not for coming back byt for talking BS Actually I like when he posts. I dont want him to go cause he provides cheap entertainment and I said so LOL. But I didnt rant and rave when he came back) LOL
Re Who the hell is Dictionary that he should get any different treatment!!
For me ………….One of the brightest and best I have seen or read on BU. One of the few from whom I have learned anything.
For you …maybe he is nothing LOL
You also claim you wouldn’t judge Israel or condemn Arabs…more BS as you have done so on this thread already. I am using a BB cell so to cut and paste is a bit tedious but I am sure you can scroll up to find it.
Dont got the time to waste/ Not that important to me. I am getting enough entertainment here. LOL
Re I challenge you, Zoe and Dictionary to show or find one person on BU who HATES Jews.
You guys seem to have a very warped way of showing your love for them
The world at large hates Jews for whatever reason and the BU sentiment reflects this man.
Re However I bet you can find in droves, those who find the actions of Israel despicable, unjust, illegal and even unChristian.
Re So tell me again, who is judging who. If you cant read between the lines and see for yourself I cant help you with that. LOL
Re Why don’t you comment on the other snide remarks and comments, not to mention the labelling done by your Christian brothers?
Then you wont have any work Thats your job to attack any and everything they say LOL
I dont have to defend God chosen people Sir. God does a very good job of that on his own . He does not need my help. I just find it funny how it gets you guys all worked up and in a lather. LOL
When its all said and done you guys cant change a thing by your endless chatter Ah lie?
Rant on my friend. I love cheap entertainment LOL
Crusoe
Interestingly, the worldwide economic troubles will act as a catalyst to international policital conflict, especially but not limited to the Middle East.
In short, the economic situation is indirectly going to bring the Middle East to the brink of war, within the next three years.
=======================================
You are indeed very correct Crusoe. The predictions on this war will soon be fulfilled. It is clear even now that the expected players in such a war are already or have already ammased thier teams.
The “hook” some eschatologists believe will be the discovery of oil in Israel as predicted in Genesis 49.
D,
“I saw a grave injustice that has made me take time to come back and correct a major slander”
And what “grave injustice” would that be?
Having a different opinion is “slander”
Is it a consensus among legal scholars that the blockade is “legal” or that the action of the IDF was “legal”
Are those scholars who voice a dissenting view to your also “slanderous”?
++++
9 civilians dead for carrying a load of cement?
Justice?
Why cant you answer your charge of slander…
“By the way are you still compiling the list of the president’s consistent threats of genocide, or do you now admit you attempted to mislead the blog?”
F/N: Onlookers, none so blind as those who refuse to see.
Sigh.
I again put up a video, and challenge objectors to explain the obvious flailing away at soldiers primarily armed with anti riot weapons, with metal rods. Not to mention stabbings, knives and fire bombs. [And Reuters' strategic clipping off of knives next to wounded, bleeding and stabbed IDF soldiers as well as Hurriet's gloating, are utterly telling on the complicity of too many of the international media in what is going on.]
Rolling the videotape, which starts with the first soldiers rappelling down and before there is any fusillade of pistol shots — i.e. it makes plain who started what happened — observe especially the man who swings his metal rod with a double hand mighty skull-crusher blow . . . which sort of behaviour easily explains why one of the most seriously wounded Israeli casualties — there were seven wounded Israelis — reportedly has brain damage from a similar blow to the head:
(I have already linked an analysis of this video, above; which includes the still that shows how AFTER the mauling, the soldiers are using paintball guns with feed hoppers above the barrels, i.e. they have not turned to lethal force. Let’s just note on logic that all of this HAD to have happened before the fusillade of shots to stop the implied charge of the activists to close in for the kill when their surrender gambit failed. Likeliest course of events: gun to the head of a hostage, but Sgt S had taken over. He and another soldier double double tapped the man with the gun — hence the likelihood of an activist with four bullets to the head. As I have noted — and pardon the gruesome detail — only a CNS shot or one that triggers hydrostatic shock will cause instant collapse. For the latter you need bullets going at 2400 ft/s or so to trigger a huge cavitation effect that sends a shock wave through the body. Pistol rounds are seldom half as fast as that, or they become uncontrollable for most shooters. Once the operatives captured soldiers, took guns and tried the hostage trick [as well as shooting at least two soldiers; cf sgt S's testimony], the rules of engagement, very properly, instantly changed.)
As to the notion that blockade runners defying a legal, declared notified blockade — one intended to block shipments of rockets Hamas has used to bombard Israeli towns as recently as this weekend [and with humanitarian supplied trucked into Gaza to the tune of 15,000 tons per week, with inspection and trucking explicitly on the table ] — are “defending themselves” when they cut metal pipes on their ship and use them to flail away at in effect riot police primarily armed with paintball guns [I suspect, loaded with pepper balls -- a standard riot load], that is its own condemnation.
Let me cite the 1994 San Remo manual on the point — again:
>>SECTION V : NEUTRAL MERCHANT VESSELS AND CIVIL AIRCRAFT
Neutral merchant vessels
67. Merchant vessels flying the flag of neutral States may not be attacked unless they:
(a) are believed on reasonable grounds to be carrying contraband or breaching a blockade, and after prior warning they intentionally and clearly refuse to stop, or intentionally and clearly resist visit, search or capture;
(b) engage in belligerent acts on behalf of the enemy . . . >>
And, as already shown to those interested in facts and common sense instead of feeding rhetorical fevers of hostility, for over 100 years, blockades have routinely been enforced in international waters.
It is now quite plain from testimony of ships officers etc that some 75 operatives boarded the ship Mavi Marmara in Istanbul, before it took on board its “peace activist” passengers.
These men formed a “security” unit, and when the ship was intercepted, they resorted to the use of cold weapons in a life threatening fashion. When they put a gun to the head of a captured soldier, sgt S and others went into action with reserve side arms and — the key operatives wearing ceramic vests — double tapped them in the head, when they seemed to mount a charge. That is audible in the smuggled out [intended anti-Israeli] video at about 2 minutes in. That is the only reasonable explanation of a fusillade of pistol shots like that, right after which the seriously wounded come in to the aid centre.
In fact, Israel would have been well within its legal rights to SINK the ship as a blockade runner, once these activists started their murderous antics. That is what routinely happened in wars over the past 100 and more years.
But the antisemitic tone of so much of ill-informed opinion in recent years and days refuses to see that Israel tried to use the minimum force consistent with preventing blockade running. The difference between this case and others is, that the “security” men seem to have an interesting provenance: training and involvement with al Qaeda in Iraq and Afghanistan.
But with the media hostility we are seeing the only “acceptable” action for the Jewish state would be to passively allow blockade running and then to put up with rocket bombardment of ever increasing range and intensity by a de facto regime that is openly committed to the massacre of Jews in Clause 7 of its covenant.
Last time Jews acted like that — in living memory — six million were led to the slaughter like sheep. And with the complicity of the Mufti of Jerusalem, spiritual leader of the Arabs of Palestine.
And that implication tells us far more about the attitudes at work in BU than anything else I can think of, save for maybe the conspiracy theorising that is taking place on other threads. For it was just that kind of conspiracy theorising that materially paved the way for the shoah.
For shame!
D
PS: Finally, observe onlookers, the plain facts of what Mr Abbas has now said in Brookings Institution being in the record, the BU commenters above are studiously ignoring the only truly hopeful — and tellingly corrective — aspect of the current situation.
PPS: It seems Marmara had no cargo. Yes, no humanitarian supplies. Zip. Zilch. Nada. And, off-loaded supplies from other ships have had to be put into storage as Hamas is refusing them entry on a propaganda point.
PPPS: FYI, Onlookers, cement, pipes etc are dual use items, so they have been very properly restricted in a time of war [credible, credibly supervised projects do get cement]. Launch pads for rockets are often made of cement. Bunkers are made of cement. Smuggling tunnels can be lined with cement. people living in refugee tents do face hardship, but that is not a humanitarian crisis. Pipes, of course, are all too easily converted into rocket bodies. Hamas has launched a war of bombardment of civilian towns in Israel, sustained it at an increasing pace for years until Israel finally decided it had to be broken, and between it and other allied groups has continued at a low level since Cast Lead. All in pursuit of a “single state solution” [ = destruction of Israel] that the Palestinian Authority president has had to publicly acknowledge, has no credible foundation.
@Not Saved
We can debate the definition of force. Consider the Israeli definition.
@D: “Rolling the videotape, which starts with the first soldiers rappelling down and before there is any fusillade of pistol shots — i.e. it makes plain who started what happened…
You are joking, right? You assume we’re all stupid, right?
Soldiers (heavily armed) are rappelling down a rope suspended from a helicopter, and you dare to speak about proportional response?
I ask you again — just how many died on each side?
@David,
Good point and this is why rational explanations will not suffice when debating this issue.
P4S: Onlookers, I already documented above that in 2001, the no 2 man in Iran — teh president is the tool of he guardians — announced on Al Qods [= Jerusalem Day] a sufficiently menacing threat to wipe out Israel with nukes. Subsequent to that various Iranian leaders and official organs of he state — including he current president and the official translators who found “wiped off the map” a reasonable idiomatic dynamic equivalent translation or rendering of his words in 2005 that went before the UNSC — have acted and spoken consistent with that threat. That is why Iran’s sanctions level just went up and it is why Saudi Arabia and Egypt are now quietly cooperating with Israel: SA is talking allowing overflight, and E has allowed open use of the Suez canal by Israeli subs set up to mount cruise missiles. So the pretense that there is no serious threat is simply even more revealing on the underlying ill-rooted hostility to the Jewish state that is now increasingly indelibly staining BU.
There are NO chosen people.
Now if only we could make policy based on this FACT.
@BU.David: “Good point and this is why rational explanations will not suffice when debating this issue.
So what do you suggest instead David?
Irrational explications?
@Chris
BU has already stated that dispute handling will not do. This matter will be settled by the shedding of blood at some point. The cold truth man.
@David: “BU has already stated that dispute handling will not do. This matter will be settled by the shedding of blood at some point. The cold truth man.
The cold truth, according to whom?
And how, if I may please ask, does BU (importantly, not the BU Family) *know* this?
Simple questions…
I hope for simple answers….
@Chris
Check this map out and try convincing anyone that Israel would feel comfortable it its skin allowing Arab Settlements to take root. This is not meant to take sides, only to be coldly logical.
@David… Wow… Heavy…
So then my question becomes…
Did the victors of the Second World War do anyone any favours in giving Israel a “home land”?
Or did they simply ensure that war would continue for the next 100+ years?
@Chris
Why are you asking these questions to a lowly blogger?
What the hell does BU know about this never ending saga?
Maybe just maybe the British became tired of keeping the Jews in Europe under lock and key and acceded to their majority wish they wanted to migrate to Palestine.
So Dictionary,
After all your pained admonitions re; our fallacious and ill informed blogging, you yourself construct a straw man to cover your lies.
Then introduce the red herring of Saudi Arabia and top it all off with an ad hominem about some of us besmirching BU.
All three, of what you so readily accuse others of, in one rambling paragraph.
The height of hypocrisy we have come to expect from the holier than though crew.
BT
I want you to know that I belong to no organization of doctors and represent NO doctors anywhere.
I can, however, share some of the protocols whereby doctors operate.
Now the scriptures teaches that God chose Abraham and brought him out of Ur of the Chaldees to set up a
special people.”
The scriptures repeatedly teaches that God promised them severe punishment for disobeying him, including two evictions from land which he promised them unconditionally.
The scriptures indicate that God has kept those prophesies and many others. Even up to now they are under going the punishments related to the prophecies that are given in the OT in this regard.
In Romans 2 Paul teaches that God has dealt/deals with the Jews because of their ACTIONS, their ATTITUDES & their ADVANTAGE. There you will read that despite having the oracles, the promises etc they failed miserably, and that they having been chosen or having had all these things the law, the oracles etc God has dealt with them severely.
We might think not, but the evidence supports that the Jews have not gotten away with the atrocities of the past, nor are they even now enjoying a free pass due to their continued unbelief.
The situation by the Germans in the last world war is well documented.
Surely there is much that we do not know or understand.
For a change, you make some sense when you say that having chosen” a set of people for his own specific reference, he could reasonably be expected to reserve to himself any rights to their discipline, reward, chastisement etc. After all, who knows what unusual stresses and strains may have been applied in the course of his ‘consultations’ with this people.” I hope you can get this through to others.
According to my understanding of the Bible, and according to what I have read by the scholars, none of us believe that the Jews, though considered ‘chosen ones’ are beyond reproach. On the contrary, the scriptures clearly teach that the Jews have been punished and continues to be punished because they failed to be role models of righteousness – (Lights to the world). This is repeatedly recorded in Holy Scriptures, and can not be refuted.
Not only is it true that no mortal can decide to discipline ‘the Lord’s anointed’, one should leave their discipline to God. Emotional irrational chit chat will not influence this discipline one iota.
No sane sound serious student of the scriptures believe that that ‘having been chosen, one’s fruit does NOT matter’, because such believers know differently from what they read in the Word and from their personal experiences. It is written in 1 Corinthians that some believers even DIE for thier sin and some are ill
.
The Bushman can say what he likes, when he likes and as long as he likes, but FORTUNATELY for us all, God is the judge of all men, and he KNOWS ALL THE FACTS, and he does not adjudicate without having ALL OF THE FACTS.
Getting back to Israel, there are several promises concerning the place of Israel in the millennium with respect to the true children which have not yet been fulfilled. BU Israel bashers can rant and rave, but these promises will be fulfilled just as all the other promises concerning Israel have been fulfilled, whether BU Israel bashers like it or not. God will deal with Israel and the BU Trinity in his time. And he wont we using Bushtea to do so. Ah lie?
@ GP (in reference to the bushman…)
“For a change, you make some sense…..”
***************************************************
Ha ha ha LOL. Thank you Doc, that must have been difficult for a Crumpton Street man to admit!!! The bushman will try to make some sense again -sometime soon… ROTFL
I continue to be amazed at your ability to agree with everything that the bushman says point by point – only to conclude that you were right all along…..
Man GP, there are so many things that you do not yet understand that it is painful.
You would do well to listen to others sometimes – like for example some of the things that Terence has been saying (emphasis on ‘SOME’…LOL)
…for example, Do you really understand the significance of the birth, life and death of Jesus in respect of the promises to the ‘descendants of Abraham’?
Who exactly do you think are the present ‘chosen ones’ who have been specially selected and who are expected to be the ‘light of this world’? … you really think that ‘Anno Domini’ these ‘special persons’ continue to be a bunch of mixed up warriors provocatively perched between a sea of natural enemies in Palestine?
If you do, then your understanding may be even worse that the bushman thought…..
Re Do you really understand the significance of the birth, life and death of Jesus in respect of the promises to the ‘descendants of Abraham’?
YES I am very very clear about the Abrahamic covenant.
Do you believe that the OT scriptures that relate to Israel are true?
Are you saying that I have to identify who God promises to bless in the Millenium.
@BU.David: “What the hell does BU know about this never ending saga?
IMHO, rather a cowardice response from a Man and a Blog of such importance…
Considering how freely you’re willing to bring forward the debate….
@Chris
You conveniently left off the last piece of the comment to which you referred?
Is this the same matter that has occupied Secretary of States the likes of Henry Kissenger, George Shultz, Cyrus Vance, Albright, Colin Powell to name a few?
Despite the decorated lot named above can you say we have come any nearer to a solution?
Give BU a break man!
@David: Give BU a break man!
Never.
You step forward to claim to stand beside the great men who have fought for freedom of speech and freedom of expression, while you support small men…
Then you run away when it gets “hot”.
Hmmmm….
@Chris
Who is running, BU has stated the ME is a hard nut to crack, its that simple.
D,
So many words, but only regurgitation. No questions answered. Are you unable or simply refuse?
Great descriptions of how the IDF killed their “attackers”. How about some descriptions of what would happen had they not boarded at all?
Shall I repeat…
- Was boarding by IDF soldiers the only option ? was the killing of civilians necessary to stop an unarmed ship loaded with cement?
- Where are the videos of the IDF soldiers killing in self defence?
- If Israel has a legal blockade on Gaza, is Gaza an occupied territory?
- If the purpose of the blockade is to prevent arms, why is the health of Gaza civilians being threatened?
- Why is a difference of legal opinion “slander”?
Here is another,
- Why are criticisms of the Israeli government anti semitic?
And you failed completely to meet the charge of slander by Straight talk. You just regurgitated the same response which has been found wanting.
Your claim…
“if you do not know that consistently the current president of Iran has threatened genocide”
To which ST responded….
“By the way are you still compiling the list of the president’s consistent threats of genocide, or do you now admit you attempted to mislead the blog?”
We are still waiting for the list.
And from the man who condemned…
“the tactic of going to ever wider circles of hostility laced strawmannised accusations simply shows the uncivil pattern of distraction, distortion, demonisation and polarisation ”
we have…..
“So the pretense that there is no serious threat is simply even more revealing on the underlying ill-rooted hostility to the Jewish state that is now increasingly indelibly staining BU.”
Let me break it down…
“pretense there is no serious threat”——> STRAWMAN
“ill-rooted hostility to the Jewish state that is now increasingly indelibly staining BU.” ——> DISTORTION, DEMONISATION AND POLARISATION.
There is no one that I can think of that has come to this blog and hurled more abusive comments to fellow bloggers than YOU.
“Writer Edda Manga said five of the activists died directly while the rest died because they were denied medical treatment.[96] Egyptian MP Hazem Farouq,[97] British activist Sarah Colborne,[98] Turkish activist Nilüfer Ören,[99] Al-Jazeera cameraman Issam Zaatar,[97] and Turkish author Sinan Albayrak[100] were also among those who confirmed in their statements that the Israeli soldiers did not allow the critically wounded to receive medical assistance.”
++++
D, any comment?
Why did this “injustice” not move you to comment?
D,
“There simply was no massacre at Jenin, despite what a patently and consistently biased UN would have liked to find; but did not.”
Why would the UN have liked to find a massacre at Jenin?
Is the UN anti semitic?
D,
If the IDF had sunk the “blockade runner” would you be here defending the act?
@BU.David: “BU has stated the ME is a hard nut to crack, its that simple.
Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem.
David,
I thought this little extract from the wiki made for interesting reading in light of the current events.
“Additionally, unlike a force of tanks and trucks, the Soviets could not claim that cargo aircraft were some sort of military threat. In the face of unarmed aircraft refusing to turn around, the only way to enforce the blockade would have been to shoot them down. An airlift would force the Soviet Union into the position of either taking military action, in a morally reprehensible fashion, breaking their own agreements, or else to back down.”
D quotes selectively from the San Remo manual.
He may not like this clause:
102. The declaration or establishment of a blockade is prohibited if:
(a) it has the sole purpose of starving the civilian population or denying it other objects essential for its survival; or
(b) the damage to the civilian population is, or may be expected to be, excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated from the blockade.
The relevant clause is 102 (b).
This extract from the wiki is relevant
“A UN Fact Finding mission lead by South African Judge Richard Goldstone suggested that the blockade was a war crime and possibly a crime against humanity:
“Israeli acts that deprive Palestinians in the Gaza Strip of their means of subsistence, employment, housing and water, that deny their freedom of movement and their right to leave and enter their own country, that limit their rights to access a court of law and an effective remedy, could lead a competent court to find that the crime of persecution, a crime against humanity, has been committed.”[8] The Goldstone report recommended that the matter be referred to the International Criminal Court if the situation has not improved in six months. ”
In May 2010, the UN Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs stated that the formal economy in Gaza has collapsed since the imposition of the blockade.[94]
David,
As you can see the legality of the blockade is not the ‘open and shut’ case D would have us believe. Clause 102(b) may well apply.
You will note that he has spared us no details in justifying the actions of the IDF implicit the legality of the blockade but has given little in justification of its implementation in the first place.
It should be clear to “onlookers” that an informed opinion claiming the blockade is illegal is neither “slander” nor antisemitic.
This is timely…
http://edition.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/meast/06/13/israel.gaza.closure/index.html?hpt=T1
“(CNN) — A report released Monday by the International Committee of the Red Cross is calling on Israel to lift a 3-year-old blockade against Gaza, saying “the closure is having a devastating impact on the 1.5 million people” who live in the Palestinian territory.”
++++
D, is the ICRC antisemitic? biased? or should we conclude on the basis of this report that the blockade violates 102(b) of the San Remo Manual on International Law Applicable to Armed Conflicts at Sea.
(Please note that section 103 applies only to a legal blockade in place. Section 102 can stop a blockade from being declared in the first place )
I would love for someone to explain how a lowly Technician from CH CH becomes a Jihadist.
Care to explain this label Mr.Dictionary ?
…And you talk about distortions and strawmen….stupse!!
Tech,
I trust you recall on a previous blog when you referred to as a “jihadi”
……[were] referred to…….
D has told us………
“It is now quite plain from testimony of ships officers etc that some 75 operatives boarded the ship Mavi Marmara in Istanbul…………….These men formed a “security” unit, and when the ship was intercepted, they resorted to the use of cold weapons in a life threatening fashion
………,,, the “security” men seem to have an interesting provenance: training and involvement with al Qaeda in Iraq and Afghanistan.”
But this report seems inconsistent with that claim….
http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/israel-transfers-hundreds-of-gaza-flotilla-activists-to-airport-for-deportation-1.293634
“All 680 activists to be released on Wednesday”
Dictionary, Oct 27, 4:48am
2] re Technician:
This commenter is plainly either a jihadist himself or a fellow traveller.
8)
Simple Simon –
Revolutionary Fighters
8)
the bingy man
the bobo man
the rasta man
give praise to the higher one
(x2)
the king of kings
the lord of lords
conquering lion of the tribe of judah
the root of king david
elect of jah
our living jah
earth rightful ruler
8) King Tubby’s Prophesy of Dub
Yabby You & King Tubby –Conquering Dub –
Conquering Dub
god’s favourite people and bouncebackability:
you can never keep jah people down
they will always bounce back again
Onlookers:
You will search in vain above for any serious engagement of facts in evidence such as the relevant videos, which show that the blockade runners attacked the intercepting IDF soldiers murderously with deadly instruments as soon as they descended to enforce the blockade once the flotilla’s ships had made it plain that they refused the reasonable request that the ships simply go to Ashdod, where the cargoes could be inspected for contraband — as has been intercepted in some previous cases — and whence the legitimate humanitarian supplies would join the 15,000 tons of such supplies per week that normally cross into Gaza by truck from Israel.
(And yes, there is no mass starvation or the like in Gaza, no humanitarian crisis, though there is indubitable hardship, especially for non-supporters of Hamas. So Clause 102 etc are irrelevant; I have not cited selectively and dishonestly. And the blockade beyond reasonable dispute is against weapons, precursors to weapons, and dual use items; and it has been jointly maintained by Israel and an Arab country, Egypt. An Egypt that lost a president to assassination by the parent organisation to Hamas, the Muslim Brotherhood.)
Indeed, having taken control of the six ships — and note it is on only one ship that here was the sort of violent encounter seen in the videos — the Israelis offloaded the cargo such as was found and transhipped the humanitarian supplies to Gaza. They were refused entry on propaganda grounds, and are now in storage.
Now, too, instead of a serious addressing of the relevant facts — check out the studious ignoring of what Mr Abbas, president of the Palestinian Authority, has had to say before a forum of the Brookings Institution — we can see above how I am slanderously accused of lying.
This tells us much about the mentality at work: the fallacy of the closed, hostile mind.
And, the tolerance for such abusive commentary does not speak well of BU.
Good day
Dictionary.
F/N: I think Clifford May has some very relevant points to tell us about what is going on. Sobering words that we would do well to heed:
_____________________
>>Townhall
Thursday, June 10, 2010
Beyond Bigotry
by Cliff May
Israel is at war and were Israel to be defeated much of the world would not shed wet tears. What would happen after such a defeat? No one can seriously doubt that Hamas has genocidal intentions.
Abdallah Jarbu, Hamas’ Deputy Minister of Religion, recently asserted that Jews “want to present themselves to the world as if they have rights, but, in fact, they are foreign bacteria — a microbe unparalleled in the world.” Jarbu then offered this prayer: “May He annihilate this filthy people who have neither religion nor conscience.”
Jarbu is restating what Hamas’ Iranian sponsors have been saying for years. Kayhan, the newspaper that speaks for Iranian Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei, recently called Israel a “cancerous tumor” that must be excised from “the Islamic Middle East.” The goal, Kayhan added, must be Israel’s “total annihilation from the political geography of the region.”
Let’s stipulate that not all those who support the Gaza “Freedom Flotilla” would welcome a second Holocaust. But let’s acknowledge, too, that those who do not endorse genocide feel it unnecessary to distance themselves from those who do.
The American journalist, Helen Thomas, was videotaped last week saying that Israelis should return to “Germany and Poland.” What was shocking here is not Thomas’ anti-Semitism (long well-known) but that she was echoing, with just a tad more subtlety, the message radioed last week from the flotilla’s Turkish flagship to the Israelis: “Shut up, go back to Auschwitz.” There also was this pro-terrorism message: “We’re helping Arabs go against the U.S., don’t forget 9/11″.
Despite such evidence, most media have been reporting that those aboard the flotilla were on a “humanitarian mission,” attempting to deliver needed aid. Few have mentioned that Palestinians already are the largest per capita recipients of foreign aid in the world. Israel itself delivers as much as 15,000 tons of aid to Gazans every week. . . . .
A Washington Post reporter in Gaza last week noted that “grocery stores are stocked wall-to-wall with everything from fresh Israeli yogurts and hummus to Cocoa Puffs. Pharmacies look as well-supplied as a typical Rite Aid in the United States.”
The reporter added, however, that Gaza has become “a mini-welfare state.” That indicates that what is needed is not relief but development – not shiploads of free food but paying jobs. And that, in turn, requires investment in factories, businesses and agriculture. Gaza lacks such investment because it is ruled by Hamas which, again, is at war with Israel. Hamas leaders reject any and all steps that might lead to peace. Abdallah Jarbu has laid out the Hamas position clearly: “I condemn whoever believes in normalizing relations with [Israelis], whoever supports sitting down with them, and whoever believes that they are human beings. They are not human beings. They are not people.”
One of the flotilla’s organizers, Greta Berlin, a 68-year-old American with a background in theater and communications, was candid enough to acknowledge that the flotilla’s primary purpose was not to deliver aid but to stop Israel from inspecting cargo heading for Gaza. Israel does that in order to reduce the number of missiles, explosives and other weapons Hamas receives. In other words, Berlin wants to increase Hamas’ ability to wage war against Israel – knowing that more Israelis and more Palestinians will be killed as a result. “War is peace,” George Orwell wrote in “1984.” In 2010, war activists are peace activists. Actually, it’s worse: Even arms smugglers are peace activists – so long as they are smuggling arms to be used to murder Israelis.
Ah, but the root cause of this conflict is Israeli “occupation,” isn’t it? Except that the conflict began long before Egypt, Jordan and Israel’s other Arab neighbors launched a war intended to wipe Israel off the map in 1967. [This is strictly correct: a strangling blockade and ring of Iron that forced Israel to mobilise and grind its economy to a halt in May 1967] That led to Israel taking Gaza from Egypt and the West Bank from Jordan. Never in history had these “Palestinian territories” been ruled by Palestinian Arabs.
Five years ago, Israel withdrew from Gaza — every soldier and farmer, leaving behind only productive greenhouses, which Gazans soon destroyed. Had they not done so, Gazans could now be exporting food rather than importing missiles.
Note, too, that on the West Bank, where Israel’s security forces work quietly with those of the Palestinian Authority, the economy is booming. At 7 percent, the annual economic growth rate is among the highest in the world. [Cf Mr Abbas' recent remarks as already cited twice in the thread above.]
Do such facts matter? The fever of anti-Israelism seems to be rising too fast to be reduced by the cold compress of truth. Jew-hatred is increasingly acceptable, even fashionable, not just in the Middle East but in Europe and in some of America’s finer salons – and journals and blogs — as well. And now, apparently, interest in a “final solution” – to borrow Hitler’s apt phrase – is emerging as well. Helen Thomas’ sudden retirement is unlikely to significantly slow that trend.
The quaint idea that, having learned the lessons of the Holocaust, civilized people would “never again” tolerate genocide has become a cruel joke — one repeated in Cambodia, Kurdistan, Rwanda, the Balkans, Darfur and beyond.
Radical anti-Semites of the 20th century had a goal: the extermination of Europe’s Jews. Radical anti-Semites of the 21st century also have a goal: the extermination of the Middle East’s Jewish state. Opposing the former is so much less demanding than opposing the latter. >>
________________________
Words to the wise.
And with un-apologised for slanders and false accusations being tossed around as though they were cogent responses, BU has now descended into outright incivility.
Barbados, is this the way you wish to project your nation to the world?
As the old J’can saying went: “de higher monkey climb, de more ‘im expose ‘imself.”
Good day.
D
Kicking a bit more into play, to open up room for serious thinking. Commentary picks up on Abbas’ remarks before the Brookings Institution:
__________________
>> Commentary
A New Abbas?
David Hazony – 06.13.2010 – 12:53 PM
Mahmoud Abbas, the chairman of the Palestinian Authority and presumptive world representative of the Palestinian cause, has been making life difficult for those who make attacking Israel an axiom for their activism. The Jerusalem Post reported that, at a luncheon at Washington’s Brookings Institution last week, Abbas crossed a number of rhetorical red lines that have become the foundations of the anti-Israel narrative.
One: “Nobody denies the Jewish history in the Middle East. A third of our holy Koran talks about the Jews in the Middle East, in this area. Nobody from our side at least denies that the Jews were in Palestine.” Nobody, of course, except for Helen Thomas, Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh, and countless activists who speak of the entire state of Israel, not just the post-1967 territories, as an “occupation.”
Two: he recognizes “West Jerusalem” as the “capital of Israel.” This is rather bold, considering that even the U.S. State Department doesn’t recognize Western Jerusalem as a part of Israel at all, much less its capital. [I think the writer is wrong here, I think it is recognised that the W part of Jerusalem is on the Israeli controlled side of the old Green line.]
Three: Abbas stated that the goal of negotiations would be an absolute end to the conflict, so that there would be “no more demands” — something that sounds obvious but has forever eluded the public Palestinian discourse, keeping Israeli suspicions high that the Palestinians are not remotely interested in ending the conflict.
Four: he conceded that there is anti-Israel incitement on the Palestinian side and that such could be resolved through an agreed-upon monitoring committee.
Five: he allowed for the possibility of an agreed solution that included an international force, even NATO, occupying the Palestinian territories, at least for a few years — opening the door, perhaps, for meeting Israel’s demand that the Palestinian state be demilitarized.
Yet the biggest zinger from Abbas appears in today’s Haaretz. According to the report, he told President Barack Obama that he opposes lifting Israel’s naval blockade of the Gaza Strip — a position shared with the Egyptian government, as well. This, of course, not only justifies Israel’s enforcement of the blockade during the flotilla mess (regardless of whether the tactics were prudent) but it also implies that the blockade itself is precisely right. This is truly remarkable, for it drastically undermines the justification for the entire flotilla and puts Turkey and other supporters in the awkward position of having to explain why, exactly, they have been so excited about it in the first place. (It would have been nice if Abbas had said so before the boats launched, but I suppose you can’t have everything.)
Certainly many people will dismiss his comments as the sudden spin of a politician worried about losing his place in the international arena. And obviously his concessions here, assuming he holds on to them, do not mean an immediate breakthrough to peace: you still have the massive problem of dismantling the Hamas government in Gaza (without which there cannot be peace) and coming to agreements on the refugees and Jerusalem. Yet one wonders why these statements have largely been ignored by the major Western media. Is it because, perhaps, that it doesn’t fit well with the current climate of radically de-legitimizing the Jewish state and its right to defend itself? >>
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More words for the wise. Egypt has co-sponsored the anti-weapons blockade, and the Palestinian Authority now supports it. Maybe this should tell us there is a good reason for it?
That Haaretz report, excerpts:
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>> Haaretz
June 13, 2010
By Barak Ravid
Abbas to Obama: I’m against lifting the Gaza naval blockade
The Palestinian president reportedly told Obama that lifting the naval blockade of Gaza would bolster Hamas, a move that shouldn’t be done at this stage.
Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas is opposed to lifting the naval blockade of the Gaza Strip because this would bolster Hamas, according to what he told United States President Barack Obama during their meeting at the White House Wednesday. Egypt also supports this position . . . .
The issue of the Gaza flotilla and lifting the Israeli blockade of the Gaza Strip was the main topic of discussion between Obama and Abbas last Wednesday night.
European diplomats updated by the White House on the talks said that Abbas had stressed to Obama the need of opening the border crossings into the Gaza Strip and the easing of the siege, but only in ways that do not bolster Hamas.
One of the points that Abbas raised is that the naval blockade imposed by Israel on the Strip should not be lifted at this stage. The European diplomats said Egypt has made it clear to Israel, the U.S and the European Union that it is also opposes the lifting of the naval blockade because of the difficulty in inspecting the ships that would enter and leave the Gaza port.
Abbas told Obama that actions easing the blockage should be done with care and undertaken gradually so it will not be construed as a victory for Hamas. The Palestinian leader also stressed that the population in the Gaza Strip must be supported, and that pressure should be brought to bear on Israel to allow more goods, humanitarian assistance and building materials for reconstruction. Abbas, however, said this added aid can be done by opening land crossings and other steps that do not include the lifting of the naval blockade . . . >>
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In short, there is a lot more to the situation than meets the casual eye, or the eye blinded by artfully stirred up rage.
For instance, the issue on rebuilding materials is that their use will have to be managed to avoid favouritism and victimisation of those Gazans who do not support Hamas — recall the attacks against Fatah supporters during the 2007 coup — or diversion to military/ terrorist use.. And that, by a de facto state government that is dedicated to terrorism.
But, it should be clear that the blockade against weapons smuggling to a terrorist regime is not just an Israeli effort but has support form Egypt and the Palestinian Authority.
(Of course, t here is a question whether the whole public position of Mr Abbas as stated in English is taqqiya — strategic deception; here to cover the calssic “phased strategy for the destruction of Israel.” I suggest: (i) apparently, in part his remarks were translated, so they would have been in Arabic too, (ii) once he has publicly committed himself in English, he should be held to account on his commitments, and (iii) the injection of credible peace-keeping troops — UN has long since lost its credibility on matters tied to Israel [once U Thant meekly withdrew the Sinai peace keepers on Nasser's demand in 1967, setting up the blockade and iron ring of tanks, artillery, troops and aircraft that precipitated the fighting in June that year], can make a big difference.)
Upping the ante. Iran’s flotilla:
_____________
>> Arutz Sheva
Monday, June 14 2010
Iranian Marines Set to Escort Flotilla ‘To Teach Israel Lessons’
by Tzvi Ben Gedalyahu
Two Iranian ships intended to head for Hamas-controlled Gaza are waiting for their government’s approval to challenge Israel on the high seas, escorted by “volunteer marines” that Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad wants to send “to teach Israelis a lesson.”
An Iranian Red Crescent official said the two ships are waiting for the Iranian foreign ministry to give the green light for launching, according to the French news service AFP, quoting the Iranian Mehr news service. The Red Crescent said a third ship probably would join the fleet.
Red Crescent official Mojtaba Majd also claimed that more than 100,000 Iranians have signed up to board the ships, but only those with ”expertise” would be accepted. Majd did not define the area of expertise required.
Ali Shirazi, the Revolutionary Guard’s spokesman for Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, said it was “Iran’s duty to defend the innocent people of Gaza.”
A Red Crescent ship to Gaza was stopped by the Israeli Navy a year and a half ago, but the charged anti-Israeli atmosphere following the latest flotilla clash has encouraged Arab and left-wing colleagues to try to break Israel’s blockade over free passage to the Gaza coast.
An Iranian maritime convoy to Israel could provoke a military clash on the high seas, but it also would highlight Israel’s claim that lifting the blockade would allow Iran to directly send advanced arms, ammunition and terrorists for the de facto Hamas government in Gaza.
The Iranian Red Crescent ships were prepared with cooperation from the Turkish government, according to the London Express. Ahmadinejad reportedly told Turkish leaders in Istanbul last week that the vessels would be prepared for a direct clash with the Israeli Defense Forces.
Turkey was one of two countries that voted against new sanctions imposed on Iran last week by the United Nations Security Council. Once considered a friend of Israel and distant from Iran, Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan has totally reversed government policy over the past two years and has joined the Syrian-Iranian-Hizbullah axis while stating that it still wants goods relations with Israel.>>
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And so things are lining up “nicely” indeed. (I am using the less common meaning of “nice.”)
@ Dictionary….
I know what a Jihadi is but can you tell me what the term ‘fellow traveller’ means. You have labelled me as such but I would like to know the meaning.
Further FYI:
A balancing backgrounder I originally developed with AR of J’ca in 2003; as an appendix to a conference paper on healing the rifts among the faiths and peoples tracing to Abraham. The onward links and references will be accessible through the above link — it seems BU now imposes an unreasonable 1 link per comment limit (as was being asked for by the opposed commenters in earlier threads who sought to clip the wings of those who were documenting corrective facts):
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>> SYNOPSIS: HISTORY OF MODERN ISRAEL[22]
By the late 1800’s, the geographic region of Western/Cis-Jordanian Palestine was largely ruinate land. From the 1893 Ottoman Census and Vital Cuinet’s independent 1896 Geographical work, Syrie, it also had a relatively light population: ~ 92,000 “Arabs” (including significant numbers of non-Arab Muslims and Christians[23]) in the ~ 8,000 sq. mi. areas that became modern Israel.[24] The rest of Cis-Jordanian Palestine had another 300 – 400,000 “Arabs.” At this time, there were also ~ 60,000 Jews in the area West of the Jordan[25]; who had their own established communities and had recovered Hebrew as their mother-tongue.
The resulting overall situation, circa 1902, has been summed up by Sir William Ramsay, a main founder of the disciplines of Biblical Archaeology and Geography:
The scenery, more especially in the central and southern regions, is . . . devoid of the rich beauty of high cultivation and productiveness. The hills as a rule are bald, bare and featureless. The terraces by which in happier times the soil was supported on the slopes have almost everywhere been destroyed, and the soil has been washed down into the hollows, where it impedes the outflow of the waters and produces marshes [NB: malarial]. Thus the land is desolate and unattractive. In general the slopes and hillsides are a wilderness of stones and rocks, where a few scanty shrubs can barely find a hold, and the glens a wilderness of marsh, with a scanty rim of cultivable land above the level of the bare rocks, just sufficient to grow food for the miserable and scanty population. [1981, p. 78. Explanatory note on Malaria and italics added.]
This sad spectacle had been created by centuries of misrule, debt- and disease- ridden tenant farming operated by absentee landowners, and a resulting largely landless and migrant peasantry preyed upon by their overlords and semi-nomadic bandits from the deserts to the East.
The transformation to the land we now see was in the main due to the Zionist resettlement from the 1870’s on, whereby Jews bought land that often had largely been dismissed as useless (at highly inflated prices) from the wealthy absentee Effendi landowners — then restored it to agricultural production. In the process, they injected large quantities of capital and skill, thus creating employment opportunities that attracted waves of Jewish, Arab and other immigrants from the region and globally. This process was then accelerated by the post World War I collapse of the defeated Ottoman Empire; which led to the creation of the League of Nations Mandate Palestine[26] (i.e. the British Mandate), which was intended to promote Jewish immigration without prejudice to the existing Arab population. [Cf. Peters, 2002, pp. 137 – 359.]
Associated with this League Mandate[27], Dr Chaim Weizmann [later, first President of Israel] and Emir Feisal Hussein of the Hejaz (S.W. Arabia) had negotiated a Versailles Treaty side agreement[28] to promote mutually supportive Jewish and Arab nations that would help modernize and develop the region. However, in the Hejaz, the al Husseinis were defeated by the Saudi family; and in Palestine, the aggressive, violently anti-Jewish policy of the British-appointed Mufti of Jerusalem prevailed. So, by 1926 – 29, Abdullah Hussein had been settled as ruler of the eastern ¾’s of the Mandate in Transjordan (a 38,000 sq, mi. region; from which Jews were banned) and Feisal as King of Iraq. Sadly, violence also swept the land, leading to the massacres of the ancient Jewish populations of Jerusalem and Hebron.
Consequently, over the next twenty years, Jewish immigration was significantly hampered [in the teeth of the rising anti-Semitic tide of Hitler’s Germany] and unofficial Arab immigration was a strongly material demographic trend in the now truncated Mandate Palestine. [Cf. Peters, pp. 196 – 412.[29]] As one result, the Middle East was deprived of the talent and treasure of many of the Jews who subsequently perished in the Nazi death camps. Then also, when the British surrendered the Mandate in the late 1940’s, Transjordan became the nation of Jordan [briefly, “Palestine”] in 1946 and the UN in 1947 proposed a partition of the cis-Jordanian region into Jewish and Arab states, with Jerusalem and environs being an International city.
The Jews accepted, and the Arab League rejected the UN vote; declaring intent to annihilate the Jews. Thus, within 24 hours of Israel’s independence on May 14, 1948, the 600,000 Israeli Jews faced invasion from five Arab armies, some of them much better equipped than the Haganah, the Jewish part-time militia. However, contrary to the expectations of many, Israel survived. As a result of the conflict, there was an exchange of refugee populations: 400 – 600,000 Arabs [under a unique criterion that 2 years of settlement in Palestine qualified one as a refugee], and 620,000 Jews from Arab lands who were resettled in Israel.[30] [An additional 200,000 oriental Jews settled elsewhere in the world.]
The Jewish refugees were welcomed and absorbed by Israel, becoming the largest single sector of the population today. However, the Arab refugees in the main were not similarly accepted by the Arab countries [with the major exception of Jordan], and provided the nucleus for today’s Palestinian refugee population.
Three major wars, terrorism and two uprisings in the West Bank and Gaza (and the two Gulf Wars) have dominated the subsequent history:
· In 1956, sustained closure of the straights of Tiran (and the Suez canal) to Israeli shipping — in spite of post-1948 truce terms, Egyptian sponsorship of hundreds of Fedayeen terrorist attacks, and a destabilising 1955 arms deal that injected modern Soviet Bloc armaments into the military situation induced Israel to make common cause with the British and French (who undertook a military response to Nasser’s seizure of the jointly owned Suez Canal in the name of nationalism). The Sinai was captured in a 4-day campaign, but was handed back under a US-led, UN–sponsored settlement.
· In 1967, again after a buildup of tensions, and accompanied by declarations of intent to drive the Jews into the sea, the straights were again closed by Nasser, who also instructed the UN peacekeepers in the Sinai to leave. He then put in seven divisions and several independent brigades into the Sinai, inducing other Arabs to join him in a ring of steel surrounding Israel: 450,000+ men, 2,800 tanks, and 800 aircraft. After the failure of diplomatic initiatives, the Israelis undertook a risky pre-emptive air strike and ground campaign in June, that in six days retook the Sinai (again, in four days), captured the Golan heights [handed over to French Mandate Syria by the British in the 1920’s] plus Jerusalem, the West Bank, and the Gaza strip. Thereafter hostilities continued at a lower level, especially during the War of Attrition.
· On October 6, 1973, Yom Kippur [the holiest day on the Jewish Calendar], Egypt and Syria attacked the Israeli positions in the Sinai and teh Golan, and made significant progress (in the North) that threatened the survival of the Jewish state. Reportedly, Egypt had access to Soviet nuclear weapons, and the Israelis assembled several nuclear bombs; the Superpowers came to the brink of a global confrontation as well. However, Israel soon recovered the military initiative on the ground, in part due to the American decision to resupply them with key weapons.
· Thereafter the uneasy situation was broken through when, after back-channel contacts, Egyptian President Sadat made a dramatic peace overture; and in 1979 the Camp David peace accord was reached between Egypt and Israel. For this, Sadat paid with his life, being assassinated while reviewing a military parade.
· Then, in 1986, Israel and Jordan reportedly almost completed an agreement to jointly manage the West Bank towards an eventual settlement. However, a street uprising broke out in the disputed/occupied territories, the first Intifada.
· In 1991, after the first Gulf War (during which Arafat backed Saddam Hussein), an opportunity for a settlement seemed to arise, and what became the Oslo peace process was initiated. However, in 1995, Yitzak Rabin was assassinated by a Jewish extremist, and by 2000 the unprecedented deal put on the table by US President Clinton and agreed to by Barak of Israel, was rejected; a second Intifada followed. (At least one Palestinian leader has publicly stated that the Sharon visit to Temple Mount was the excuse, not the cause.)
· Currently, in the aftermath of the second Gulf War, the Americans and the EU are sponsoring a Roadmap to Peace framework. It seems to be facing very similar roadblocks to those that have frustrated every other effort to date. [UPDATE: Subsequent to 2003, Israel's unilateral withdrawal from Gaza has led to further attacks from that territory, and kidnapping of Israeli soldiers there and by Hezbollah terrorists attacking from the S. Lebanon region Israel evacuated in 2000 provoked a short war in 2006. The situation still repeatedly deadlocks in violent confrontations, and so blocks any reasonable compromise along the lines envisioned as long ago as 1919.]
The timing of the two Intifadas is therefore highly suggestive: they have both happened when a compromise peace more or less along the lines of the 1947 UN partition has been on the table. That is, they are not simple “spontaneous uprisings” of an oppressed people; but rather reflect a shift in Arab strategy post-1973, to the fostering of a Palestinian national identity and state, towards fulfilling the policy intent that has dominated the Arab world since the 1920’s[31]: the unacceptability of a Jewish — thus Dhimmi-ruled[32] — state in the Middle East.[33]
Currently the United States has intervened strongly in the Middle East, in the aftermath of the 9/11 attacks by Arab Muslim extremists. The underlying policy appears to be that the US not only wishes to root out the bases for the terror networks that have attacked it[34] (similar to the Barbary Coast anti-piracy naval wars of the turn of C19), but also it aims:
1) To block the emergence of an Islamic Nuclear power (e.g. Iraq, Iran, possibly Syria), probably on the grounds that that would make a regional nuclear war all but inevitable; and
2) To foster democratization, economic development and liberalization across the region; in the hope that these globalization-linked forces would help to drain the pool of resentments that lie at the root of the region’s instability.
Such a goal will prove to be difficult to achieve at best, and may well prove unsustainable in the long run, as Islamists (and a great many more moderate Muslims) view all three policy aims as incredibly hostile to the global mission and dignity of Islam. But, the US is probably encouraged by the success of its similar interventions with Germany and Japan from the 1940’s on, and the outcome of the Cold War with the Soviet Union.
However, in the background of the headline-grabbing diplomatic and military events, Israel has undergone a dramatic and exemplary economic transformation in the past 120 years that is an object lesson not only to the Middle East but also to the whole world.
For, the initial Kibbutzim[35] created an agricultural powerhouse out of what had been largely ruinate land, farmed under unsustainable systems of tenure. Then, with the traditional Jewish focus on education, from the 1930’s on a world-class university system has been created; which now serves to underpin one of the leading high-tech economies in the world. For, arising from the need to develop its own armaments industries the Israelis have spun out an impressive array of inventions and industries, ranging from drip irrigation to cutting-edge aerospace systems and a strong software sector.
The net result has been that in oil-rich Saudi Arabia, the per capita income in the early 2000’s was US$ 10,600. In Jordan, it was $ 4,200; in the West Bank, $ 1,000; in the Gaza, $ 625. And, in a resource-poor State of Israel that has had to devote a major part of its resources to the military, it was $ 20,000. [36]
In conclusion, it is evident that the underlying deep-rooted hatreds in the Middle East have frustrated every seemingly reasonable attempt to bring about a positive change and a betterment of the people of the region as a whole. This underscores the importance of the issues raised in the main body of this paper; for, unless reconciliation is found in the arms of the Prince of Peace, there will be no lasting positive settlement of the Middle East situation. (And that is exactly what many leading expositors infer from the relevant prophecies in the Bible.)
Let us pray for the peace of the hitherto ironically named City of Peace, Jerusalem. END >>
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That is the sort of information that the opposed commenters, unable to address on t he merits, wish to uncivilly smear and dismiss as “lies.”
Have they no shame?
D
PS: T et al, you need to be apologising for slander, not pretending that nothing is wrong. And Mr May above has given a capital example of an extreme type of fellow traveller useful idealist who is not thinking through what s/he is enabling. There are milder cases, but we must not forget that a major cause of the horrors of WW II were idealistic peace activists who could not see that their activism was only enabling aggressive dictators in their bloodthirsty path. A lesson that should be very soberly reflected on indeed as Iran now crosses the nuclear weapons threshold as we speak.
Israel’s very EXISTENCE, a small, tiny area of land, surrounded by MILLIONS of square miles of Arab countries; the point that the world misses, or wilfully choses NOT to look at, is this:
Arabs and Muslims demand ANOTHER Palestinian state, a position supported by most of the world; in IGNORANCE of the facts, OR willful blindedness. However, there are two very critical questions that must be answered in so far as the Arabs and Muslims are concerned.
1. Is their objective a state *alongside Israel, *NO* or is their objective a sate
2. Is the issue at hand revolving around the *Size* of Israel, *NO* or, is the issue revolving about the *Existence* of Israel? *YES*
The line of attack is best summed up by one of the PLO’s esteemed leaders, and executive committee member:
“The Palestinian people DO NOT EXIST. We take PAINS to emphasize our Palestinian identity ONLY for TACTICAL purposes. The creation of a Palestinian state is ONLY a means for continuing our struggle AGAINST the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there IS NO DIFFERENCE between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians, and Lebanese. ONLY for political and TACTICAL reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interest DEMAND that we POSIT the existence of a distinct “Palestinian” people to OPPOSE ZIONISM. The establishment of a separate Palestinian state is a NEW TOOL in the continuing struggle against Israel.”
“For tactical reasons, Jordan, which is a sovereign state with defined borders, cannot raise claims to Haifa and Jaffa. While as a Palestinian, I can undoubtedly demand Haifa, Jaffa, Beer-Sheva and Jerusalem. After having obtained ALL OUR RIGHTS in every bit of Palestine (Israel) – we will not pospone for a singlr moment the re-unification of Jordan and Palestine…” emphasis added.
In short, the “Palestinian” Arabs admit that they have NO RIGHTS or claims as a group to any country or region of their own. And, they further adsmit that the proposed Palestinian state will be utilized as a means to DESTROY ISRAEL. So, what is the purpose for negotiations? The ‘Palestinians” are waging a WAR of ANNIHILATION against Israel, and America pretends that both parties are participating in a peace process and following the roadmap to peace. Utter hogwash!
So soon do we forget what was going on:
Dictionary,
You’re erecting yet another straw man argument, accusing us of lying. LOL
The “lie” we would like you to address is your slanderous statement (June 10th 7.32)
“Anonymous, if you do not know that consistently the current president of Iran has threatened genocide….”,
Either provide your evidence, admit you contrived a dangerously misleading piece of propaganda or skulk away again.
Whichever choice you make will be indicative of how you treat this blog.
I am not interested in hearing about Hamas, Egypt, SA or the blockade….. answer the simple question ….did you lie with the above quote?
Yes or No
ST:
Let’s stop playing rhetorical games.
It is your ilk who have falsely accused me of lying, in so many words, not too far above. That is no strawman caricature, it is an indefensible descent into incivility — beginning to look habitual.
An apology and retraction are in order, as it is manifestly false and uncivil.
But then, it is all too telling that instead of addressing the issues on the merits, we see yet another attempt to turn about the locus of guilt through the dirty rhetoric of immoral equivalency and ad hominems.
It is now quite plain that not only Israel but Egypt and the Palestinian Authority are agreed that some restriction on the ability of Hamas to continue its policy of firing rockets at civilians in Israel, is needed.
And, even more important than that, it is the president of the PA who is on public record that the Jewish nation has undeniable historic roots in the Holy Land. So, at length — after ten wasted years, thousands of lives needlessly lost or subjected to crippling wounds, and billions of dollars of wealth destroyed — there is again discussion of a compromise along the lines of what Arafat walked away from to wage terroristic war in September 2000. The same general lines that were there from 1948 -9 and again 1967.
In short, the basic legitimacy of Israel as a nation is not in question.;at least when one stands before an informed audience such as at Brookings. It is time that he sort of intemperate, hateful, blood-libel filled antisemitic rhetoric that stains the above exchanges was apologised for and laid to one side.
Then, we can move to a more balanced, informed discussion on the terms of a compromise.
First, it is plain that for most of the border with the WB, the Green line with land swaps is an agreed position. In the case of Jerusalem, the issue is toughest, and I have suggested that a condominium arrangement would be the best solution, one backed by trustworthy peacekeeping troops. (My ideal solution would be an expansion of the Vatican Swiss Guards, bus a solid NATO contingent might work.)
Gaza, Israel withdrew from in 2005, but the Hamas coup and terror-rocketing has utterly discredited the de facto government. Egypt refused taking it back in 1979 [Israel offered to hand it over lock, stock and barrel.] An international force to clean it out and to respotre decent and peaceful government, with trials for the chief cases would be a good solution, if possible. As with the Balkans.
Iran needs to be told in no uncertain terms to stop its mad course now, or face devastating consequences. And it it wants to play at nukes, it is now subject tot he rules of nuke powers.
Then, maybe we can get to something sensible with the Middle East mess that has so harmed the world since the 1940′s.
The above would work, but I have very little confidence that it will happen that way. (And that is independent form my particular views on eschatology. [So far it looks like eschatology wins over common sense solutions in terms of predicting what is likely to happen.])
Good day
D
So that’s it, Dictionary, you won’t answer a civil question.
If you are unable to maintain your credibility and give a simple response, perhaps you could point out some more truthful person from within your “everyone knows group” who would be willing to be more truthful.
As it is now calling you a lying propagandist is not being uncivil, it is simply stating an obviously irrefutable fact.
Since you have addressed me directly, can you point or post where I have slandered you?
You have called me Jihadi and world traveller(whatever that really is). Isn’t that slander too ?
After all your posturing, you continue to miss the point of most on this thread which is the condemnation of the CRIMES committed by Israel against the Palestinians. No one in their right mind would think Hamas is right in their beliefs or actions BUT right thinking people also have a conscience and realises that Israel does wrong, a BLATANT FACT that you and your ilk REFUSE to admit, for whatever religious,prophetic or other dogmatic reasons.
When others highlight the wrong done by Israel(and there are many just like Hamas)we are branded as anti semetic and Jew haters, all because we have a different take on the matter.
The problem with you is the arrogant thought, that you are the sole authority on the ME, granted you are well read and versed in the events BUT your religious BIAS undermines your credibility as an impartial commenter on the issue. It is this same religious bias which continues to blind you,your ilk and the apologists to the wrong committed by your chosen people, therefore all pretences of seeking peace are mere window dressing of the issue as you all sit and wait for prophecy to be fulfilled.
@ CH…
@David… Wow… Heavy…
So then my question becomes…
Did the victors of the Second World War do anyone any favours in giving Israel a “home land”?
Or did they simply ensure that war would continue for the next 100+ years?
By Christopher Halsall on June 13, 2010 at 7:12 PM
You might very well correct here!!
That is a very profound statement you have made.
Should be… You might very well ‘be’ correct here!!
PS: Long since, I have provided documentai6ton of what has come from Mr Ahmadinejad’s mouth and/or that of his official spokesmen, as well as from the de facto rulers, the Mullahs.
It is very plain that however one may literally parse and try to deflect the intent of the words he made in 2005 that led to the UNSC censure of Iran, the official translators clearly understood that “wipe off the map” is a workable dynamic equivalent on meaning. Multiply that by the gharqad tree hadith on latter day massacre of Jews that is embedded in the charter of the regime Iran is using as a cat’s paw in Gaza and by the statement of Rafsanjani and actions to back it up from 2001 to date; mixing in the latest remarks May cited above. Genocide is the clear intent, and it must be broken. I have no time for silly rhetorical games when the real issue is plain for those with eyes to see and ears to hear.
Let me pick just three, a recent remark in Iran, a declaration in a press conference in Syria and a speech before the UN GA, in 2008:
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>>September 23, 2008
“The dignity, integrity and rights of the American and European people are being played with by a small but deceitful number of people called Zionists. Although they are a miniscule minority, they have been dominating an important portion of the financial and monetary centers as well as the political decision making centers of some European countries and the US in a deceitful, complex and furtive manner. It is deeply disastrous to witness that some presidential or premiere nominees in some big countries have to visit these people, take part in their gathers, swear their allegiance and commitment to their interests in order to attain financial or media support”
“Today, the Zionist regime is on a definite slope to collapse and there is no way for it to out of the cesspool created by itself and its supporters….American empire in the world is reaching the end of its road, and its next rulers must limit their interference to their own borders. Today, the thought of hegemony quickly becomes a demerit.”
++++++++++
February 25, 2010
“If the Zionist regime wants to repeat its past mistakes, this will constitute its demise and annihilation…With Allah’s help the new Middle East will be a Middle East without Zionists and Imperialists.”
(At a news conference in Damascus with Syrian President Bashar al-Assad.
++++++++++++
March 11, 2010
“See what has become of Israel. They [the West] gathered the most criminal people in the world and stationed them in our region with lies and fabricated scenarios. They waged wars, committed massive aggression… and made millions of people homeless…Today, it is clear that Israel is the most hated regime in the world… It is not useful for its masters [the West] anymore. They are in doubt now. They wonder whether to continue spending money on this regime or not…But whether they want it or not, with God’s grace, this regime will be annihilated and Palestinians and other regional nations will be rid of its bad omen.”
(In a speech in southern Iran).>>
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The first demonstrates Protocols of the Elders of Zion style fraudulent conspiracy theories with a known track record of fomenting genocide.
Now, let us put that with the gharqad tree hadith cited in clause 7 of the Hamas covenant, so that we may see the underlying religiously motivated agenda:
In that light, when we see “annihilation” and “collapse” language, its import is all too clear.
Especially with the backdrop of the push to acquire nuclear weapons and the declarations by Rafsanjani cited above on Al Qods day, 2001:
>> IPS, Dec 14, 2001 [cf Jun 11 above]: “If a day comes when the world of Islam is duly equipped with the arms Israel has in possession, the strategy of colonialism would face a stalemate because application of an atomic bomb would not leave any thing in Israel but the same thing would just produce damages in the Muslim world”, Ayatollah Ali Akbar Hashemi-Rafsanjani told the crowd at the traditional Friday prayers in Tehran. >>
Sorry, the matters are far too serious for silly obfuscatory rhetorical games.
D
PPS: The three cites of course come from Mr Ahmadinejad. Cf here for an interesting cluster of such statements over the past five years.
In your Dictionary what constitutes genocide.
If, as from your quotes you believe it means the removal of an unacceptable regime, you should reconsider your inappropriate handle.
Using your logic we can trace this whole situation back to Kermit Roosevelt Jr and the “genocide” inflicted upon Iran to replace the democratically elected Mohammed Mosaddeq with the corrupt puppet Pahlavi, at the whim of Big Oil.
It will take a bigger man then you to belittle me.
Even if I am not the sharpest knife in the drawer in your estimation, I will still juk you if you use lies to denigrate your perceived underclass.
BTW As your answer is far from evidence, please supply more of his supposed consistent threats of genocide, and not commonplace regime change heard from every quarter of the world.
D says…’Iran needs to be told in no uncertain terms to stop its mad course now, or face devastating consequences.’
Which is exactly what Israel and the western allies are clearly planning to do with a pre-emptive strike.
D goes on further to state…’ And it wants to play at nukes, it is now subject tot he rules of nuke powers.’
Wow!! What hypocrisy!!
Is Israel subject to the rules of nuke powers?
Do they allow inspection of their plants by the IAEA?
Is Israel a member of the non-proliferation treaty?
@All… Just for the record for those who don’t follow the RSS feed…
I raised the following challenge to Dr. Georgie Porgie on another blog here on BU:
“I challenge you — if your God does not agree with what I am doing, let him strike me down by lightening.
“Not my family or my friends, but me personally.
“God All Mighty… Please strike me down by lightening if you don’t agree my questions have merit…
It has been nice knowing you all….
I come from de country. One time we had a dog dat bark and bark and bark allllll night long and won’t let nobody sleep. The only solution wuz to hold he and grease he asshole wid vasaline. Yuh see, when he asshole grease, he can’t get a grip when he try to bark. Dat fix he.
I guarantee that dis will work with Dictionary too. My God, de man won’t shut up.
Who volunteering to bell de cat…oops…grease de dog.
Techie:
Such an ingenue is Dictionary that he believes a made up story from Faux News’ Times, that SA will provide a corridor for an Isreali attack on Iran. LOL
Bet that made Hillary snort her coffee.
I will state here and now that that analysis is Bovine Excrement, however if it comes about I will eat my tinfoil hat.
And further anyone expounding this is full of the same, and knows nothing of the region.
Iran is no tin pot dictatorship you are discussing, this is a democratic peace loving nation who has never invaded anyone, unlike their detractors ( not even for territorial integrity ) and yet here we have the world’s #1 violators of the Nuclear Proliferation Treaty for the last 37 years pronouncing that we alone can be the global criminals everyone else needs bombing to smithereens.
A strike on Iran’s supposedly implausible position that it should as a nation have no right to a deterrance to withstand an unprovoked attack stands for naught against the Israel‘s own ethereal right to exist.
One caution for anyone not familiar with the region, an attack on Iran may bring about a dangerous Pakistan-Turkey– Syria– Afghanistan opposition –Iran alliance that could field twice the number of troops NATO could ever hope to muster, and with nuclear potential. Beware moods are changing.
As it affects our Barbados’ security. hell it does and all our neighbours.
You just watch the Silkworms close down the Straits of Hormuz and the oil price double,
And further anyone expounding this is full of the same, and knows nothing of the region.
This is no tin pot dictatorship you are discussing this is a democratic peace loving nation who has never invaded anyone ( not even for territorial integrity ) and here we have the violators of the Nuclear Proliferation Treaty for the last 37 years pronouncing we alone can be the global criminals everyone else needs bombing.
It affects our security. helln it does and all your neighbours.
A strike on Iran’s implausible position that it should as a nation have the deterrance to withstand an unprovoked attack stands for naught against the etherial aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaisrael’s right to exist.
Any comments on Israel’s decision to establish a probe into the incident some say which occurred deep in international waters?
From news reports they have refused UN members to participate in the process but will allow two observers.
A PR move maybe or genuine?
Onlookers:
It is all too sadly obvious that every distraction and obfuscatory rhetorical stratagem is being employed to divert the thread, yet again — once it threatens to get too close to the ever unwelcome truth.
In this case observe how studiously Mr Abbas’ recent remarks and their import are being ignored and diverted from. As well as the possibilities for genuine understanding and progress that those words entail.
Apparently, as well some commenters above are unaware that a long-time favourite term of reference for Israel on the part of those who hate it has been “The Zionist Entity” And of course The [a] Zionist [b] Regime is a code word for the same thing that the “entity” referred to: [b'] the state of Israel and [a'] its Jewish people. Just as “Zionist” is a code word for “Jew.” (And what was “bumper” a code word for in some popular songs in Barbados in the1990′s? And before that, other words?]
To see what is going on behind the codes, just note the use of “annihilate,” which is not normally used with regime. We CHANGE regimes, but we might wipe out a people, which is precisely what genocide and annihilation are about: the actual or attempted mass murder of a nation or people group.
Dictionary.com is apt:
So, the obfuscatory rhetoric above is intended to disguise the otherwise obvious connexion between the threats of leaders of the Iranian regime across the past decade, their reaching for the nuclear weapons that was announced in the context of a plainly genocidal threat by Rafsanjani in 2001, and their use of Hamas with the infamous gharqad tree hadith in its charter as a cat’s paw.
Indeed, in the preamble to that charter we may read in plain speech: “Israel will rise and will remain erect until Islam eliminates it as it had eliminated its predecessors,” which takes on an ominous tone when we compare it on one side to the slightly subtler Iranian declarations, and to the other, the naked hate in the end of Clause 7 of Hamas’ charter:
__________
>> Hamas is one of the links in the Chain of Jihad in the confrontation with the Zionist invasion. It links up with the setting out of the Martyr Izz a-din al-Qassam and his brothers in the Muslim Brotherhood who fought the Holy War in 1936; it further relates to another link of the Palestinian Jihad and the Jihad and efforts of the Muslim Brothers during the 1948 War, and to the Jihad operations of the Muslim Brothers in 1968 and thereafter. But even if the links have become distant from each other, and even if the obstacles erected by those who revolve in the Zionist orbit, aiming at obstructing the road before the Jihad fighters, have rendered the pursuance of Jihad impossible; nevertheless, the Hamas has been looking forward to implement Allah’s promise whatever time it might take. The prophet, prayer and peace be upon him, said: The time will not come until Muslims will fight the Jews (and kill them); until the Jews hide behind rocks and trees, which will cry: O Muslim! there is a Jew hiding behind me, come on and kill him! This will not apply to the Gharqad, which is a Jewish tree (cited by Bukhari and Muslim).>>
____________
If Iran’s leaders did not and do not intend genocide, they should use different language and chssoe different associates.
Let the record at BU therefore plainly show the attempt to obfuscate the genocidal intent of Iran [talk about enabling behaviour!!], and the onward act of trying to slander those who pointed out this inconvenient truth.
For shame!
Good day
D
@BU.David: “Any comments on Israel’s decision to establish a probe into the incident some say which occurred deep in international waters?
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
PS: More of Mr Ahmadinejad’s pearls:
>> February 20, 2008
“The world powers established this filthy bacteria, the Zionist regime, which is lashing out at the nations in the region like a wild beast. … “[Israel] won support [from the other nations] which created it as a scarecrow, so as to keep the people of this area under control.”
January 30, 2008
“I warn you to abandon the filthy Zionist entity, which has reached the end of the line. It has lost its reason to be and will sooner or later fall. The ones who still support the criminal Zionists should know that the occupiers’ days are numbered. … Accept that the LIFE of Zionists will sooner or later come to an end.” >>
Well, Dick,
Someone has to do something about Israel, which has been committing so many atrocities against the Palestinians that it is beginning to be thought of as a rabid dog, and we all know that the only thing you can do with a rabid dog is shoot it.
Despite all the “antisemite” shouting and the victim posturing,we cannot forget that before this last atrocity, the IDF killed some 1,400 Palestinians, including 300 children, and hundreds of other unarmed civilians, including more than 115 women and some 85 men aged over 50 during Operation Cast Lead, wantonly destroyed hundreds of civilian dwellings and deliberately targeted and destroyed Palestinian infrastructure.
. Israel broke the cease fire then in force on November 4th, 2008, when it attacked and killed 6 Palestinian men and then used the ensuing resumption of rocket attacks from Gaza as an excuse to launch operation Cast Lead an extreme example of the disproportionate use of deadly force against what is essentially a defenseless target.
We cannot forget that Gaza has been under a virtual lock-down – siege – for over one thousand days now; that children are dying from lack of medical care; mental health is deteriorating; malnutrition common place; 95% of the water in Gaza unfit for human consumption; thousands of Palestinian homes have been illegally destroyed and that Israel’s use of illegal weapons has left many children mutilated and/or orphaned.
The UN is powerless to do anything, despite the conclusiveness of the Goldstone Report
The US can’t do anything, because it is being controlled through the Jewish Washington lobby
Egypt is the second largest beneficiary of American largesse (after Israel), and it certainly won’t jeopardize that by speaking out against blatant atrocities.
Seems that it is left to Iran to become world policeman.
A bit off topic but it is important for the naive among on to understand the how the game of geopolitics is played by the US and allies.
Follow the LINK to the NYT.
well it has been interesting to read the intestinal fortitude of the christians who would go to the ends of the world fighting and sreaming in their defense of Isreal via bible prophecy. it is also intersesting to read their nonresponse concerning our neighbouring islanders on other threads whose children are bing killed at the hands of their governments. I guess only Isreal rights supersedes other countries and nations.Bu has posted one or more of these such threads in the past days and not one response from Zoe. GP. or Dictionary. The reason i mentioned yuh all is because were you lead others follow.whether they agree or not.
Lets take D’s voluminous posts one at a time…
“You will search in vain above for any serious engagement of facts in evidence such as the relevant videos”
D, what would you liked engaged?
Are there any facts on the video that have been denied by anyone here?
What I want to know from you is ..
1) was boarding a civilian ship by armed soldiers the best solution? why was the ship not disabled without boarding
2) why are we treated to edited video? why cant we have the vids of the civilians being shot in self defence? If the evidence favours the IDF account why not show it?
3) why were shot civilians denied medical treatment as according to corroborated eye witness accounts?
Where is your engagement?
Where are your answers?
You make the case the actions of the IDF are above aboard but you “studiously ignore” the questions posed and accuse EVERYONE else of the same.
+++
“So Clause 102 etc are irrelevant”
No D clause 102b is NOT irrelevant. Clause 102 affects the legitimacy of a blockade as a method of war. A blockade is illegal FROM the outset if the “damage to the civilian population” outweighs the “military objective”.
That is the sole criteria for s102b to apply. No humanitarian crisis is necessary. An arising humanitarian crisis is dealt with by s103.
There is abundant evidence from the Red Cross that the damage to the population is excessive.
You have again deliberately mislead this blog.
Your explanation of 102 is absolutely incorrect.
++++
“Now, too, instead of a serious addressing of the relevant facts — check out the studious ignoring of what Mr Abbas, president of the Palestinian Authority”
No Mr Abbas is not being ignored.
The topic of this blog is the flotilla incident.
There is no challenge here to anything that Mr Abbas has said. You have just set up another distraction and a strawman.
D then posts two articles by Clifford May and David Hazony respectively.
The most relevant bit is the report by Hazony that Abbas supports a NAVAL blockade.
Otherwise these articles do not address the questions posed to D nor are they directly relevant to key issue of this blog; the legality of the blockade and the actions of the IDF on the high seas.
Largely posted by D to distract from the main issue under debate.
It is worth noting that it is customary to post links to articles (with maybe an excerpt) as good blog etiquette. D, self appointed policeman of civility, prefers to behave otherwise.
D, however makes the following conclusion to the Hazony article which needs to be challenged.
“Egypt has co-sponsored the anti-weapons blockade, and the Palestinian Authority now supports it. Maybe this should tell us there is a good reason for it?”
Ok this is outright misleading.
The PA (ie Abbas) support a NAVAL blockade ONLY. He does not support a total blockade. He does not “now support it”.
From Haaretz:
“The Palestinian leader also stressed that the population in the Gaza Strip must be supported, and that pressure should be brought to bear on Israel to allow more goods, humanitarian assistance and building materials for reconstruction. Abbas, however, said this added aid can be done by opening land crossings and other steps that do not include the lifting of the naval blockade”
Egypt has also opened the Rafah border crossing.
There would have been NO NEED for the Gaza flotilla had the land crossings been open.
Egypt and the PA do NOT support the blockade as currently in place.
Maybe that should tell you there is a better way to restrict arms without damaging the entire population of Gaza.
Maybe there is a more humanitarian way to behave.
Can you understand that D? Or is that too difficult?
D then posts the Haaretz article stating the position of Abbas and an article about the Iranian flotilla.
Two comments.
D posts the following;
“But, it should be clear that the blockade against weapons smuggling to a terrorist regime is not just an Israeli effort but has support form Egypt and the Palestinian Authority.”
Yes D, the whole civilised world support a blockade aimed at blocking weapons to terrorists.
This is another strawman.
The blockade in place now is illegal opposed by every major Human Rights organisation.
http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/israel-s-gaza-blockade-breaks-law-says-international-red-cross-1.296042
“The International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) said on Monday Israel’s blockade of the Gaza Strip violates the Geneva Conventions and called for its lifting. ”
“Israel is entitled to impose restrictions on military material for legitimate security reasons, but the scope of the closure is disproportionate, covering items of basic necessity, according to the ICRC. ”
+++
Secondly, it is worth considering that had the IDF calmly disabled the flotilla without killing civilians there would be no Iranian flotilla.
One reckless idiotic act follows another.
D, then posts a synopsis on the modern history of Israel and concludes with the following slander….
“That is the sort of information that the opposed commenters, unable to address on t he merits, wish to uncivilly smear and dismiss as “lies.””
+++
This is outright slander and a bold faced lie.
This blog thread has been about the flotilla incident. There has been no discussion on the history of Israel.
Nothing in the synopsis has been challenged. No statement on the history of Israel has been challenged as a lie.
This is vintage Dictionary as noted by ST.
“You’re erecting yet another straw man argument, accusing us of lying.”
It is this kind of post, together with the labeling and insults to bloggers that suggests D to be a very disturbed individual.
What is your problem??
Criticisms of the Israeli Government or the IDF do not make bloggers antisemitic nor does it make them members or supporters of Hamas.
It would be worth your time to realise that.
D then flounders all over the place as he fails completely to meet the challenge set up by ST.
Where is the list of “consistent” calls for “genocide” by the Iranian president.
Amusingly he posts these two quotes….
“The dignity, integrity and rights of the American and European people are being played with by a small but deceitful number of people called Zionists. Although they are a miniscule minority”
and…………
“Accept that the LIFE of Zionists will sooner or later come to an end”
The latter quote, D would like us to interpret as call to “genocide”.
Funny he would give us the first.
“Let the record at BU therefore plainly show the attempt to obfuscate the genocidal intent of Iran……., and the onward act of trying to slander those who pointed out this inconvenient truth.”
Yes D, let the record at BU show it.
D,
Can you explain why Israel released all of the “activists” aboard the Gaza flotilla considering your claim that 75 of them had “training and involvement with al Qaeda in Iraq and Afghanistan.”
Can you explain or did you simply mislead the blog again with propaganda?
Onlookers:
The enabling rhetoric continues.
Sufficient has been said for you to see through it and draw your own conclusions on the merits, especially in light of Mr Abbas’ recent remarks at the Brookings Institution that are being ever so studiously evaded above.
Let me excerpt again, as one of the tactics at work is to bury key things in a morass of distractive, strawmannising and ad hominem laced rhetoric (including now the routine slanders against me that I am “lying — shameless, disgraceful and utterly revealing about where BU has now descended to):
In short, Abbas concedes the roots of the Israelis in the Holy Land, and the legitimacy of their basic claim, so he seeks to go back to the compromise his predecessor walked away from to make terroristic war in September 2000. This, after ten wasted years, billions of dollars of destroyed wealth and most importantly thousands needlessly dead or gravely wounded and crippled for life.
Worse yet, that compromise has been on the table not only in 2000 but ever since 1948 and again since 1967.
I note that he has also supported the need for an anti-weapons blockade of Gaza, as does Egypt, the partner with Israel in the blockade. As for he notion that Israel is blocking the transfer of humanitarian supplies to Gaza by closing he crossings, the lie is given to that by the fact that something like 15,000 tons per week of supplies go through the crossings, which are open on a set, published schedule. That is a good part of why Gaza’s markets and pharmacies etc are full of goods.
Enabling behaviour continues, and the serious onlooker has enough information to draw his or her own conclusions.
So, in light of the steadily deteriorating, slander-filled tone above and pattern of distractions, distortions, demonisation and polarisation, I need make no further comments than this one.
BU has, sadly, become an echo chamber for misinformation and hostility.
Good bye.
Dictionary
And Dictionary just repeats himself again.
(How many times will you post Abbas remarks to the Brooking institution which is not the subject of this blog)
NO questions answered.
NO response to the challenges.
NO defense to the misleading claims
And this (again !!)………..
“As for he notion that Israel is blocking the transfer of humanitarian supplies to Gaza by closing he crossings, the lie is given to that by the fact that something like 15,000 tons per week of supplies go through the crossings”
Please explain the Red Cross Report?
Are we to believe YOU or the RED CROSS??
PS: Those seeking balancing and corrective information to all too much of what appears above, would find it useful to check the links already given above, and as previously linked and referred to, e.g. June 7, 5:01 am above. For instance, the Goldstone Report, right from its terms of reference, is a classic example of why the UN has no credibility to carry out a fair and well-grounded investigation of anything relating to Israel. [Which is precisely why there is a push now to have another UN "investigation." The Durban I and II antisemitism-laced fiascoes are another pair of cases in point. ]
With a little help from the wiki I give a brief list of persons and organisations who do NOT share the view Dictionary…….
On January 24, 2008, the UNITED NATIONS HUMAN RIGHTS COUNCIL released a statement calling for Israel to lift its siege on the Gaza Strip, allow the continued supply of food, fuel, and medicine, and reopen border crossings
On December 15, 2008, following a statement in which he described the embargo on Gaza a crime against humanity, UNITED NATIONS SPECIAL RAPPORTEUR RICHARD A. FALK was prevented from entering the Palestinian territories by Israeli authorities and expelled from the region
In August 2009, U.N. HUMAN RIGHTS CHIEF NAVI PILLAY criticised Israel for the blockade in a 34-page report, calling it a violation of the rules of war
In March 2010, UNITED NATIONS SECRETARY-GENERAL BAN KI-MOON stated that the blockade of Gaza is causing “unacceptable suffering” and that families were living in “unacceptable, unsustainable conditions”
A UN FACT FINDING MISSION lead by South African Judge Richard Goldstone suggested that the blockade was a war crime and possibly a crime against humanity:
In May 2010, the UN OFFICE FOR THE COORDINATION OF HUMANITARIAN AFFAIRS stated that the formal economy in Gaza has collapsed since the imposition of the blockade
After visiting Gaza in March, IRISH FOREIGN MINISTER MICHEÁL MARTIN described the Israeli blockade of Palestinian-ruled Gaza as “inhumane and unacceptable” and called on the European Union and other countries to increase pressure on Israel to lift the blockade.
Speaking about the Gaza flotilla raid, which occurred on 31 May 2010, CLINTON described the broad situation in Gaza as “unsustainable and unacceptable.”
NICHOLAS CLEGG, THE DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER OF THE UNITED KINGDOM speaking after the Gaza flotilla raid criticized the blockade saying “So the events of the last 24/48 hours confirm in my mind, as they do if you hear what William Hague and David Cameron have done and everyone in Government, the view that the blockade on Gaza is neither sustainable nor tenable in its present form.”
On March 7, 2008, several international aid groups, including AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL, CARE INTERNATIONAL UK, AND OXFAM, issued a report saying that the humanitarian situation in the Gaza Strip was more acute than at any time since the beginning of the Israeli occupation in 1967. blockade, characterizing it as collective punishment against the 1.5 million residents of the territory.
According to the INTERNATIONAL COMMITTEE OF THE RED CROSS, humanitarian aid cannot address the hardship faced by Gaza’s 1.5 million people. The only sustainable solution is to lift the closure.
PRESIDENT CARTER spoke forcefully against the economic blockade of Gaza. “The responsibility for this terrible human rights crime lies in Jerusalem, Cairo, Washington, and throughout the international community
THE POPE BENEDICT during his visit to Bethlehem in May 2009 specifically mentioned the plight of Gazans, saying: “Please be assured of my solidarity with you in the immense work of rebuilding which now lies ahead and my prayers that the embargo will soon be lifted.”
But D says……….
“That is a good part of why Gaza’s markets and pharmacies etc are full of goods.”
“BU has, sadly, become an echo chamber for misinformation and hostility.”
Yes from YOU !
Dictionary..
Get help.
F/N: Here is a discussion on the problems with the Goldstone Report and related media coverage. I can leave it to onlookers to judge for themselves why Mr Abbas has found it necessary to acknowledge the basic legitimacy of Israel and ask to go back tot he table of compromise Arafat walked away from to go to terrorist war in September 2000, when he spoke before an informed audience at the Brookings Institution. And, why ever so many distractive, distorting and ad hominem laced talking points are being used to obfuscate that decisive fact. The one that should open our eyes to do a major re-think on the Middle East.
David,
Read the previous post from D…….
“And, why ever so many distractive, distorting and ad hominem laced talking points are being used to obfuscate that decisive fact [Abbas acknowledging legitimacy of Israel”
Is this blog about the Gaza flotilla incident? or am I missing something?
Has there been ANYTHING posted on the blog to “obfuscate” what Abbas said at the Brookings institution ?
Where are the “distortions”?
This man is now rambling incoherently and repeating himself a disturbing amount of times.
Onlookers:
Melanie Philips gives some strong words to those holding to our region’s fashionable “progressive” mindset. Words we would do well to ponder, even if we find them strong and disagreeable:
________________
>> June 11, 2010
Flotilla sickness and the ‘progressive’ mind
Jewish Chronicle, 11 June 2010
The flotilla episode provided the trigger for a frenzied demonstration of the world’s collective loss of mind over Israel.
Israel did what it was entitled to do and what any other country at war would do: intercept boats that might be carrying weapons for an aggressor regime. Since six out of the seven intercepted boats then proceeded peacefully to Ashdod where their cargo was checked, this was demonstrably not an Israeli ‘attack’.
Conversely, as everyone could see from the video evidence, on the main boat the attack took place against the Israelis — who then killed nine of their jihadi assailants solely to protect themselves from being lynched, kidnapped and murdered.
Yet, for this, Israel has been hysterically denounced across the world for an act of aggression and even piracy — an onslaught, in effect, upon Israel’s right to defend itself, without which no country can exist.
The claim that Gaza is starving is the opposite of the truth: its markets are stacked with produce, and every week Israel allows in thousands of tons of aid across the border.
As its organiser admitted, the flotilla was not about humanitarian aid at all but was designed to break the sea blockade — and thus open up a weapons channel for Hamas. This manipulative and mendacious exercise was but the latest attempt to weaken Israel ready for the slaughter through an ever tightening noose of lies, demonisation and delegitimisation.
We have endured the fabricated claims of Israeli massacres in Jenin, the 2006 Lebanon war and Cast Lead; the charge that Israel is an ‘apartheid’ state, that it has committed genocide, ethnic cleansing and is starving the people of Gaza; that it is the aggressor in the Middle East.
How is it possible that so many believe all these lies? How can so many Jews believe them? As I have described in my new book, The World Turned Upside Down (please forgive the commercial) the witch-hunt against Israel is the pivotal example of the West’s repudiation of reason itself, leading to a widespread inversion of truth and lies, justice and injustice, right and wrong.
The ‘progressive’ left-wing intelligentsia now subscribes to a world-view that, over a wide range of issues, subordinates truth to ideology. This manifests itself in utopian creeds that hold that the world would attain a state of perfection if only it wasn’t for capitalism/America/ industrialisation/men/the nation state/those damned Jews.
Since these creeds are axiomatically the embodiment of virtue, all who dissent must be treated as moral outcasts and their views stifled.
From this Manichean mindset, which decrees that all who are not the left are a) the right, and b) intrinsically evil, it follows that anyone who challenges the lies generated by ideological dogma is by definition right-wing and evil. As a result of this knee-jerk name-calling, people dismiss such inconvenient truths even when they stare them in the face.
This terrifying mindset is the left’s default position. That is why this madness towards Israel is not confined to gentiles. Indeed, even Jews who consider themselves to have the interests of Israel at heart sometimes tragically end up believing the lies and supporting positions that would destroy it.
Which partly explains why some communal leaders busily suck up to the enemies of Israel in the faith or political worlds, even telling them on occasion that ‘in private I agree with you’.
So we find ourselves in this nightmare situation. The Great Flotilla Derangement has created the impression that, as Iran moves towards completing its genocide bomb, the rest of the world senses an endgame and is moving in on Israel for the kill.
>>
____________________
In short the root problem we have as a civilization in apostasy and rebellion against reason itself is a key factor in what is going on: we are under the Judgements of Rom 1:18 – 32. Here in the Caribbean, it is multiplied by our burden of history.
Goodbye. BU.
D
D has now posted an article by the deranged reactionary Melanie Philips (which contains nothing of substance).
This is what PRO ISRAELI Alan Dershowitz had to say about Melanie Philips…
(source: wiki)
“Alan Dershowitz has accused Phillips of lashon harah, a Hebrew term for spreading malicious lies, in her commentary about the Obama administration’s policies towards the Middle East. More generally, he has also stated:
“I support its liberal policies… if Israel were to turn against these values— if it were to become an oppressive theocracy, like all Muslim countries today, that subjugates women, discriminates against gays and subjects science to religious censorship— I would become extremely critical of any such nation. Israel will never become such a country because, fortunately, the vast majority of Israelis reject the extremist views of Melanie Phillips.”
This is Melanie Philips on Barack Obama….
(source:wiki)
“She has accused Obama of believing in “revolutionary Marxism.”[13]
She also accuses him of “adopt[ing] the agenda of the Islamists”, being “firmly in the Islamists’ camp,” and of appointing “fifth columnists” for Iran to his administration.[14]
She wonders if Obama is secretly a Muslim, writing: “We are entitled to ask precisely when he stopped being a Muslim, and why. Did Obama embrace Christianity as a tactical manoeuvre to get himself elected?” [15].
She has suggested the Obama administration seeks “a final solution” for Israel, [1] a comparison which has been seen as comparing Obama to Adolf Hitler. [2]
She says the “new distortions supplied by Obama” now “pose the greatest single danger to Israel’s security and existence,” a position she regards as “treacherous.” [3]
++++
D, do you share the views of Melanie Philips on Obama?
I wonder if this question will be “studiously ignored”?
@ Not Saved…..
Let me take this time to electronically shake your hand…lol.
D is so smug and arrogant!!
No one is denying what Abbas, Hamas etc are doing.
No one is condoning attacks on Israel.
What most are at lengths to show, is the collective punishment and the disproportionate use of force used by Israel towards the Palestinian people.
Why is this point being constantly ignored by D and his ilk?
Look at who set up the distractions and tried to hijack the blog. Who was it that labelled those with a different opinion.
Would D like to see peace in the ME? I doubt it, what would happen to prophecy?
Let him call BU uncivil, go back to your own civil blog where the most posts are by yourself….lol.
You thought BU was a place where your arrogance and condescending attitudes to those you think are beneath your standards, would have been ignored or accepted because a few stand in awe at your brilliance but no such luck !
What you need is a lesson in humility.
So run you kurd, run back to you intellectual blog where the gods chat and leave BU for us mere mortals to interact on a lowly level.
Tech,
Thanks, I am happy to ‘shake’ your hand too !
One CANNOT ‘Isolate the flotilla incident’ from the history of Israel, especially the last 60 odd years, where the ARAB countries attempted to ANNIHILATE Israel from existence, 1948-49, and again in 1967, AND the repeated, vehhement, open declarations by Hamas et al, to DO THE SAME.
It is a FACT, that the IDF soldiers were FIRST ATTACKED when they boaded the first ship. It is a FACT, that the IDF did NOT first attack anyone, but, had to then defend themselves against the vicious thugs, who were USING anything they could create, to kill the Israel IDF soldiers.
It is a FACT, that after Gaza was given over to the Palestinians, and Hamas took over, that HAMAS has fired over 8,000 rockers into innocent Israeli territory, it is a FACT, that when Israel could NO longer take these daily attacks from Hamas, that Hamas HID behind hospitals, schools, etc, also using children.
It is ONLY against these FACTS, that one can then honestly, realistically, and logically, understand why Israel had no choice but to enforce the blockade, which has NOT prevented humanitarians supplies to reach Gaza, every single week, 15,000 tons of it.
Hamas, Hezbollah are proxies for Iran, who have openly stated, time and again, that Israel, must NOT exist.
Since 1993, Israel has suffered nearly 26,000 casualities in the ensuring 12 years, from these Arab TERRORIST,who teach and train their children to HATE all Jews, and to KILL them.
But, the “Leftest” here on BU, who are woefully ignorant of the long history of violence by Arab Muslims, against Jews, which started way back with Muhammad, hundreds and hundred of years before 1948, manifestly demonstrate not only “ignorance” of the historic facts, but have chosen to be wilfully unreasonable, terribly illogical and downright incoherent, by continuously throwing, redherring after redherring, disguisting strawmenized rhetoric, laced with utter slander, to sidetrack from the warranted, credible facts and evidence.
But, this is to be expected from these *Leftest* whose well worn mantra, IS, the “denial-excuse-justification ‘ syndrome, true to form.
Tech, you and I are a “leftest” apparently. I guess ST and Inkwell are a “leftest” too.
Whatever that is.
@NOT SAVED
Beyonce has a song some of the words are “To the left ! to the left!
It is a FACT, that the Arab brothers, of the so-called ‘Palestinians’ as there is NO such thing a Palestinian, for they are all assorted, Jordanians, Syrians, and Lebanese, HAVE purposely KEPT their brothers in this ‘refugee’ situation, UNTIL they can ANNIHILATE Israel.
It is a FACT, that Israel has NEVER, once attacked any of these Arab nations, or the Palestinians, without FIRST being ATTACKED, in order to defend its sovereign right as a Nation State.
It is a FACT, openly stated by Islamist, that they MUST take over and CONTROL the World, with Israel’s total destruction being NO.1 on the agenda.
It is a FACT, that the LIARS at the UN, whose Islamic arm are constantly pushing to ‘Isolate’ Israel, and then DESTROY her.
Only an overt idiot, would conclude, as most of the blinded world has done, that Israel is the ‘aggressor’ when the FACTS, clearly, resolutely, and irrefutedly, reveal that, Israel has had to DEFEND itself, by only using a fraction of its military might, which IF, the Arabs had, would NOT HESITATE to DESTROY Israel.
Here endeth the matter (including references on whereto find correctives to many myths and false allegations above.)
Lol @ D
Here endeth the matter…ROFLMFAO!!
The master has spoken!!
Poor soul, guy…get a pet!!
Dictionary, my last challenge you was:
“Either provide your evidence, admit you contrived a dangerously misleading piece of propaganda or skulk away again.”
Whichever choice you make will be indicative of how you treat this blog.
Skulking away beneath the shadows of various straw men is obviously your choice.
Onlookers have already noticed your inability to truthfully respond to a a simple question.
You, sir, are at best delusional, and at worst a dangerous serial lying propagandist for continuing war until you realise your rapturous wet dream of Armageddon.
“Not that crazy Dictionary (Kairosfocus) nutter again, inventing untrue quotes from his boogie men to make his short time on earth more worthwhile than it in reality is.”
Onlookers review his previous posts to decide whether this man should be taken seriously, or is he in fact the guy screaming on the bridge opposite Trimart.
We should be told, before reading any more dubious and discredited postings.
“Here endeth the matter (including references on whereto find correctives to many myths and false allegations above.)”
+++
I suspect it will not surprise anyone that the link leads us to the report of Abbas speech to the Brookings Institution. In fact there is little there in the link not already posted right down to the “Vatican Swiss Guards” ideal solution.
Nor is there any details of the “myths and false allegations” supposedly found here.
For a man of several thousand words, he avoids the key details.
What exactly are the myths and false allegations?
> Is it a myth that the boat could have been stopped without boarding by armed soldiers?
> Is it a myth that Rec Cross has called the Blockade Illegal?
> Is it a myth that the videos have been edited and civilian videos confiscated?
> Is it a myth that several eye witness accounts report the dead were denied medical care when only wounded
> Is it a myth that over 80 humanitarian organisations including the WHO have reported the blockade is affecting the heath of the population of Gaza?
> Is it a myth that Gaza is an “occupied territory” when Israel has complete control of all the airports, the seaports, the airspace and the US, the UN and various organisations such as the Red Cross and Human Rights Watch have declared it as such.
> Is it a myth that the UN fact finding mission headed by (Jewish) South Africa Judge Richard Goldstone found the Gaza blockade is likely a war crime and possibly a crime against humanity?
> Is it a myth that s102b of the San Remo manual makes a blockade illegal if the damage to the civilian population exceeds the military objective?
>Is it a myth that the Israeli Government has refused an independent inquiry despite killing civilians of a neutral country in International waters?
Where are the myths and false allegations?
But from D we have heard that there have been “consistent” calls for “genocide” from the Iranian president.
But he cannot produce any of these calls.
Myth?
D told us that 75 of the civilian passengers had training from Al Qaeda
But the Israeli Government let them all go.
Another Myth?
http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/israel-s-greatest-loss-its-moral-imagination-1.295600
A few excerpts…….
“A million and a half civilians have been forced to live in an open-air prison in inhuman conditions for over three years now, but unlike the Hitler years, they are not Jews but Palestinians. Their jailers, incredibly, are survivors of the Holocaust, or their descendants. Of course, the inmates of Gaza are not destined for gas chambers, as the Jews were, but they have been reduced to a debased and hopeless existence.
Fully 80% of Gaza’s population lives on the edge of malnutrition, depending on international charities for their daily nourishment. According to the UN and World Health authorities, Gaza’s children suffer from dramatically increased morbidity that will affect and shorten the lives of many of them. This obscenity is a consequence of a deliberate and carefully calculated Israeli policy aimed at de-developing Gaza by destroying not only its economy but its physical and social infrastructure while sealing it hermitically from the outside world.
Particularly appalling is that this policy has been the source of amusement for some Israeli leaders, who according to Israeli press reports have jokingly described it as “putting Palestinians on a diet.” That, too, is reminiscent of the Hitler years, when Jewish suffering amused the Nazis.”
+++
“Did Jews admire British commandos who boarded and diverted ships carrying illegal Jewish immigrants to Palestine in the aftermath of World War II, as most Israelis now admire Israel’s naval commandos? ”
+++
“If a people who so recently experienced on its own flesh such unspeakable inhumanities cannot muster the moral imagination to understand the injustice and suffering its territorial ambitions—and even its legitimate security concerns—are inflicting on another people, what hope is there for the rest of us? “
NS:
You have proved yourself unable or unwilling to actually address matters on the merits. You have removed yourself from the circle of reasonable and civil discourse [especially given the very ugly, antisemitism-tinged things that have happened upthread], to Coventry.
All I will further say to you is that when your side tries to cite UN Committees on human rights that are dominated by many of the world’s leading and most blatant human rights violators, that is all the demonstration that is needed of what has gone wrong.
And, the ghost of my Grandma’s Great uncle tells me to say that an investigation that assumes guilt form the outset — per the terms of reference set for Goldstone [and look, Eichmann was apparently part Jewish . . . ] — is a kangaroo court.
Onlookers:
All I have done is provide you with a link to a discussion of a positive way forward put on the table by the PA president, and in that context again link an extensive discussion of the many, many myths and agit-prop claims that surround the most contentious geopolitical issue of our day, with also a balancing survey of history.
I now leave the BU echo chamber of misinformation and hostility to itself.
Goodbye.
D
More come-backs than Frank Sinatra, but still singing the same old songs, not the new material the audience are requesting.
Bye bye dick…
Don’t let the door hit you on your way out!!
Was Israel Ever Legitimate?
By Jeff Gates
6-17-10
The history of Israel as a geopolitical fraud will fill entire libraries as those defrauded marvel at how so few deceived so many for so long. Those duped include many naive Jews who “even now” identify their interests with this extremist enclave. Israeli leaders are wrong to worry about “de-legitimization.”
They are right to fear that a long-deceived public is fast realizing that Israel’s founding was key to an ongoing deception. The Invention of the Jewish People did not begin with Shlomo Sand’s 2009 bestseller by that title. There was no Exile says this Jewish scholar. Nor was there an Exodus. So how could there be a Return, the core premise of Israeli statehood? If this patch of Palestinian land never rightly belonged to a mythical Jewish People, what then for the legitimacy of the “Jewish homeland.”
And for that depiction by British Foreign Secretary Arthur Balfour in his November 1917 letter to Lord Rothschild? Were Christians likewise seduced by Sunday school teachings reliant on the phony findings of Biblical archeologist William Albright? Shlomo Sand chronicles how in the 1920s Albright interpreted every excavation in Palestine to “reaffirm the Old Testament and thereby the New.” In 1948, President Harry Truman, a Christian Zionist, was advised by Secretary of State George Marshall not to recognize this enclave as a state.
This WWII general assured Truman that he would vote against him? and did. That military tradition resurfaced in January 2010 when General David Petraeus dispatched a team to brief Admiral Michael Mullen, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, on the perils that Israel still poses to U.S. national security. Mullen was reportedly shocked. See: The Petraeus Briefing. He should not have been surprised. Such insights are hardly new. More than six decades ago the Joint Chiefs of Staff cautioned Truman about the “fanatical concepts of the Jewish leaders” and their plans for”Jewish military and economic hegemony over the entire Middle East.”
In December 1948, Albert Einstein and 27 prominent Jews urged us “not to support this latest manifestation of fascism.” They warned that a “Leader State” was the goal of the “terrorist party”that has governed Israel over all but a handful of the past 62 years. The Joint Chiefs foresaw the “Zionist strategy will seek to involve [the U.S.] in a continuously widening and deepening series of operations intended to secure maximum Jewish objectives.”
Soon after Truman recognized Israel, his presidential campaign train was “refueled” by Zionist Jews with $400,000 in contributions ($3.6 million in 2010 dollars). Soon thereafter, Israel betrayed the U.S. by allying with the British and the French to invade Egypt. Though London and Paris soon abandoned the operation, months more were required to dissuade Tel Aviv from pursuing their expansionist agenda then (as now) for Greater Israel.
Outraged by Israeli duplicity, Eisenhower sought help to rein them in. He soon found that even then (as now) the Israel lobby dominated Congress. Thus the former Supreme Allied Commander appeared on television with an appealdirectly to the American people. Then-unlike now-a U.S. Commanderin Chief threatened to reduce assistance to Israel.
To revamp Israel’s tattered image, New York public relations expert Edward Gottlieb retained novelist Leon Uris to write Exodus. Jewish Zionists have routinely proven themselves skilled storytellers and masterful mythmakers. This 1958 bestseller was translated into dozens of languages and quickly made into a movie for the 1960 Christmas season starring Paul Newman and featuring Peter Lawford, brother-in-law of the just-elected President John F. Kennedy. See: Timefor an American Intifada? The Myth of a Loyal Ally Phil Tourney survived the June 8, 1967 Israeli attack on the USS Liberty that left 34 Americans dead and 175 wounded.
The region-wide dynamics accompanying that provocative Six-Day land grab guaranteed the conflicts that remain so perilous to U.S. national security. It was during this Israeli operation that Tourney gave a one-fingered salute to armed Israeli troops as they hovered in helicopters over the USS Liberty while preparing to rappel to the deck and, he surmises, kill the survivors and sink the ship. Just then the captain aboard a nearby U.S. carrier scrambled jets to assist a vessel under attack by an “ally.”
When Israeli intelligence intercepted the transmission, the helicopters fled only to have President Lyndon Johnson and Defense Secretary Robert McNamara recall our fighters. Soon thereafter, Israeli torpedo boats pulled alongside the USS Liberty to inquire if those aboard needed assistance.
Those same boats had just blown a hole in the hull, killing 25 Americans. Israeli machine-gunners had then strafed stretcher-bearers, firemen, life rafts and even the firehoses?all clear war crimes. Only then did this ally display the chutzpah to ask if our servicemen required assistance. Had that notorious land grab failed to advance the narrative of Israel as the victim, what might be the condition of U.S. national security today?
Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu recently conceded the duplicity that continues to typify this “special relationship.” As he confessed: “Our policy on Jerusalem is the same policy followed by all Israeli governments for 42 years, and it has not changed. As far as we are concerned, building in Jerusalem is the same as building in Tel Aviv.” In other words, the 1967 war was neither defensive nor preemptive but an outright taking of land that, one year later, Tel Aviv acknowledged as precisely what concerned the Pentagon 62 years ago.
In effect, Netanyahu confirmed that this relationship reflects multi-decadepremeditation. The U.S. has since discredited itself by protecting this “ally” from the rule of law for its taking and brutal occupation ofland that rightly belongs to others. Even now, few know that Mathilde Krim, a former Irgun operative, was”servicing” our Commander-in- Chief in the White House the night the1967 war began. Her husband, Arthur, then chaired the finance committee for theDemocratic National Committee. Even now, few Americans know the role in that cover-up played by AdmiralJohn McCain, Jr. Or the role still played in this sordid history by his son, Republican Senator John McCain III. See: McCain Family Secret.
Are those who champion this “state” the same belief-makers responsible for the myth of Iraqi weapons of mass destruction? Iraqi meetingsin Prague? Iraqi mobile biological weapons laboratories? High-level Iraqi contacts with Al Qaeda? Iraqi yellowcake uranium from Niger? Was any of that intelligence legitimate? Whose interests were served by deceiving the U.S. to wage war in the Middle East? By the Suez Crisis? By theSix-Day War? By covering up the attack on the USS Liberty? Adhering to an Enemy? How are U.S. interests served by treating Israel as a legitimate state?
When was Israeli behavior anything other than duplicitous? At what point do we concede the common source of the storylines foisted on an imperiled global public? Who created the narrative that saw us segue seamlessly from a global Cold War to a global War on Terrorism? Remember the promise of a post-Cold War “peace dividend”? Who induced the U.S. to wage a war whose costscould total $3 trillion, including $700 billion in interest? Why is debt always the prize?
At the end of WWII, the U.S. was home to 50% of the world’s productive power. Were we induced to hollow out our economy by the same consensus-shapers that induced us to wage war in the Middle East? Do these devastating dynamics trace to a common source? Who benefits from the “Islamo” fascist narrative? Whose story line really is The Clash of Civilizations? Who has long spied on the U.S. and routinely transferred to other nations our most sensitive defense technologies? Who had the means, motive, opportunity and, importantly, the stable nation state intelligence required to perpetrate such a debilitating fraud frominside the U.S. government? And from inside other governments that joined the “coalition of the willing”? If not Israel and its supporters?who? In effect, are those now advocating an “unbreakable bond” with Israel giving aid and comfort to an enemy within?
Israel is right to worry. It was never legitimate. As both an enabler and a target of this fraud, the U.S. has an obligation to concede its source?and to secure the weapons of mass destruction now under the control of this enclave.
————————————————–
Court: Israelis suspected in ‘Nigerian scam’ can be extradited to U.S.
Seven Israelis are suspected of scamming tens of millions of dollars from U.S. pensioners in a so-called Nigerian scam over the course of four years.
By Liel Kyzer and Haaretz Service
The seven Israelis suspected of scamming tens of millions of dollars from U.S. pensioners in a so-called “Nigerian scam” can be extradited to the United States to face trial there, the Jerusalem District Court ruled on Wednesday.
The seven, arrested by Tel Aviv police in July 2009, have been charged by American prosecutors for a serious of legal violations, including conspiracy to commit fraud. Some of the defendants also face money laundering charges.
The defendants are suspected of building a sophisticated crime network to defraud elderly American pensioners. Over four years, the network netted tens of millions of dollars in ill-gotten gains.
The defendants, all in their 20s and 30s, allegedly phoned American pensioners, told them they had won the lottery and asked them for a fee of several thousand dollars for the transfer of the prize money, which in fact never existed.
The investigation that uncovered the network was conducted in conjunction between Israeli and U.S. law enforcement agencies.
———————————————————-
today is let the light shine day!
Myth or FACT: Did the Israeli government, pressured by the US President, in 2005, forceably remove 10,000 Israeli’s from their homes in Gaza, leaving them HOMELESS, for the sake of so-called peace?
Myth or FACT: Did HAMAS, who stagged a ‘coup’ in 2007, constituting a de facto ‘Terrorist’ regime, not fire over 8,000 rockets into Israel at Sderot and other civilian towns, totally unprovoked, REFUSING to stop this blatant terrorism upon innocent Israeli towns?
Myth or FACT: Does not the Hamas Charter, CALL for the total DESTRUCTION of Israel?
Myth or FACT: And why did activists on board the Mavi Marmara SING: ‘Khaybar, Khaybar, ya Yahud, Jaysh Muhammad Sa-ys-ud’? ‘Khaybar, Khaybar, O Jews: the army of Muhammad will return.’ Khaybar was the land of several Jewish settlements attacked by Muhammad and his forces, after which the Jewish inhabitants were either massacred or sold into slavery or deported. Just what sort of *Humanitarian* activists ISSUED this THREAT on board a ship carrying aid?
Myth or FACT: Israel has NOT ONCE, ever attacked any Arab territory, without FIRST being attacked, as IS the case with the Gaza de facto, terrorist regime, HAMAS.
Myth or FACT: Hamas HAS used the BILLIONS of $$ for aid to rebuild the infrastructure of Gaza, to further their TERRORIST intentions to DESTROY Israel.
Myth or FACT: In light of the forgoing facts, WHO is really responsible for the Gaza population having to suffer what they are going through, by the blockade restrictions, Israel, who are simply exercising their sovereign right to PROTECT their very existence, OR, HAMAS, whose sole intent is to smuggle materials into Gaza, to build up their military forces, to ultimately carry out their Charter declared intention, that Israel must NOT EXIST?
Sect members charged with abusing children to ‘protect them’
Leader of the ‘Ithaca’ who allegedly ordered the children be hit to ‘save their souls’ committed suicide in his prison cell days after being arrested.
By Ofra Edelman
Three members of the “Ithaca” cult were charged with the severe abuse of their children, according to an indictment submitted to the Peta Tikvah District court on Sunday.
According to the indictment, sect leader, Shay Abramov instructed members to physically abuse their children, in what he called a “treatment” against accidents and illnesses, so to save their lives and prevent their souls from going to hell.
Sect leader Abramov took his own life while in custody in the Hadarim detention center, just four days after being arrested for the alleged abuse. He had been arrested in a Haifa hideaway, where he had stayed prior to his arrest along with his wife and for children.
Abramov’s wife, as well as two other parents, were charged with striking their underage children with a carpet beater, as well as with a rolled-up newspaper that was fastened with duct tape. The children were also reportedly encouraged to engage in the abuse themselves.
The marks of violence, called “battle scars,” were allegedly supposed to protect the soul from distress. The children were reported to have been made to wear long-sleeved cloths in order to hide the marks, while being excluded from medical care and removed from the public education system.
The state prosecutor’s office wrote in the indictment that the allegations “uncover a horrifying tale of abuse…during a period of six months, for the purpose of preventing them from becoming felons and to ‘take the evil out of them,” adding that the reported abuse was “severe and systematic.”
The state had requested the court that the three suspects be remanded for the duration of the legal proceedings against them, or that they would be released to house arrest.
———————————————
today is let the light shine day!
BUSH’S WAR ON GLOBAL TERRORISM:
FACT or FICTION?
Do you remember the Muslim terrorist bombing of:
*Pan Am Flight 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland (1988)?
* TWA Filght 840 from England (1986)?
* The World Trade Center in 1993?
*American Embassy in Beirut in 1983 & in 1984?
*American Embassy in Kuwait (1983)?
*the Marine barracks in Lebanon (1983)?
* the American military barracks in Saudi Arabia
(in 1995 & in 1996)?
*the American Embassies in Kenya and Tanzania
(1998)?
*The US Air Force base in Rhein-Main (1985)?
*the US Cole (2000)?
*America on 9/11?
FICTION! FIX-TION!
let the light shine day!
Do you not ask yourself WHY the above list does NOT read:
*Air Canada Flight 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland (1988)?
* BA Filght 840 from England (1986)?
* The TD Center in 1993?
*Canadian Embassy in Beirut in 1983 & in 1984?
*Canadian Embassy in Kuwait (1983)?
*the British Army barracks in Lebanon (1983)?
* the Canadian military barracks in Saudi Arabia
(in 1995 & in 1996)?
*the Canadian Embassies in Kenya and Tanzania
(1998)?
*The Canadian Air Force base in Rhein-Main (1985)?
*the HMS Cole (2000)?
*Canada on 9/11?
Does it not occur to you that all these acts are retribution for and the expression of Muslim anger at the (perceived) role of the US in the ongoing oppression of Arab peoples by the US created and maintained, out of control, illegitimate entity called Israel and its own disregard for the rights of Arab peoples?
American contempt and injustice came back to bite it in the ass. And it isn’t over yet.
the ‘zio-con’ had a hand in almost all of them and today their hands are still smoking from their huge roll in 9/11 & 7/7 in london. walk along wall street and you can still smell the stench of the thermite.
‘by way of deception thou shalt do war’
8) no worry yourself too much jah jah children don’t worry yourself too much..
tempo explosion (black victory-
1985)
Since the year 2000, the Arabs have been excavating on the Temple Mount at a feverish pace. Thousands of tons of earth have been removed. Why are the Arabs doing this?
Several questions need to be answered:
*Why is there such a feverish pace underway?
*Why are the Arabs dumping the excavated material together with household garbage?
It is at the grounds of Emek Zurim National Park, where Israeli archaeologists have been sifting through piles of rubble that were transfered from a garbage dump used by Wakf officials to discard their diggings from the Temple Mount. It is here that archaeologists have discovered history-rich artifacts dating back to the periods of the First and Second Temples of Jews; priceless artifacts that are unique and irreplaceable since NO ONE had ever dug on the Temple Mount before. And the Arabs are PURPOSELY DESTROYING these artifacts and dumping them together with household garbage, in order to PREVENT professional inspection of these finds.
The main question to be asked is WHY Arabs are purposely utilizing heavy equipment in an area replete with such fragile treasures, many dating back to at least the time of Israel’s King David and Solomon and the First Temple and why are they not acting to preserve these delicate and ancient archaeological finds?
Well, we must first remember that Arabs claimed that the two Jewish Temples never existed in Jerusalem, and that Jews are not indigenous to the City of Jerusalem or the Land. They must, therefore, as a matter of urgency, DESTROY all evidence proving that they are *inverting* history. The Palestinian Authority MUST DESTROY these ancient relics, because they PROVE the existence of a Jewish presence in the City and the Land – a bond from time immemorial. The PA must destroy these ancient relics, because these archaeological finds reveal that Arafat had been LYING to the world, from time immemorial. Jerusalem WAS NOT holy for Muslims. Mecca and Medina are. The reasons that Muslims built the Dome of the Rock on the Jewish Temple Mount in the first place, was, precisely, to usurp the rights of Jews to that area.
Now, it is vitally relevant to contrast the recent statements, (January 2001) of the Mufti of the Palestinian Authority told to the German publication Die Welt:
“There is not the smallest indication of the existence of a Jewish Temple on this place in the past. In the whole city there is not even a single stone indicating Jweish history.”
Of course, the above statement, is a classic use of Arab ‘Turnspeak’ a cynical inverting of FACTS, in order to propogate their LIES against Israel, and the vast amount of historical evidence for thousands of years re the Jews presence and right to this Land.
Now, let us see what the Muslim holy book itself describes re the construction of even the FIRST TEMPLE and the destruction of both Temples; for an example see Koran, Surah 34:13 and 17.
NOTE CAREFULLY: That in 1930, echoing the real FACTS, the SUPREME MUSLIM COUNCIL published “A Brief Guide to al-Haram al-Sharif”. Consisting of the leading Muslim religious figures of the day, the Council stated that:
“[The Temple Mount site is} one of the oldest in the world and that ITS SANCTITY dates from the EARLIST TIMES. Its IDENTITY with the site of Solomon’s Temple IS BEYOND DISPUTE. This, too, is the SPOT, according to universal belief, on which (King) David built an alter.” emphasis added.
NOTE, this Muslim “A Brief Guide to al-Haram al-Sharif” predates 1967, the point at which the combined Arab forces sought to ANNIHIALTE Israel, and LOST, with Israel rightfully regaining its sovereign control of East Jerusalem, and the West Bank, which were ILLEGALLY captured by Jordan and Egypt, in the 1948-49 attack on Israel literally hours after its officially sanctioned Statehood, by the League of Nations.
It is ONLY after 1967, that the above admission to ancient Jewish presence of The Temple Mount by both King Solomon and David, by the Supreme Muslim Council, was deleted in any such Guides, and NOW terribly twisted by the statement in January 2001 by the Mufti of the Palestinian Authority.
In the bas-relief on the Arch of Titus, errected in Rome 1900 years ago, the Romans themselves memorialized a Jewish connection to the Holy Land, from time immemorial. The Bible, God’s Word, is replete with references to the Temple and to Jews, at the time when Jewish independence in the Holy Land was waning (during Roman times). Again, whenever one looks, one finds evidence of the Jewish connection to the Land, from time immemorial.
Araft, was an UNABASHED LIAR, and so are his followers and supporters.
The ancient historical connection of Israel and Jews to this LAND, IS coherently, and logically established, and it CANNOT be refuted, only maligned and viciously DENIED, by by those who are downright intellectually dishonest, and haters of truth.
THE TORAH DEMANDS JUSTICE FOR THE PALESTINIANS….
http://seminal.firedoglake.com/diary/2767
The Israeli Cabinet in the last 2 days have voted to ease “RESTRICTIONS” into GAZA*…
Whatever that means – it is a move in the right direction…
A complete lift of the blockade is the only desirable outcome and where ALL* parties involved can come to the table and hash out a deal based on co-existence, mutual respect and a framework which will allow for social and economic development for Palestinian and Israeli alike…
@TMB: “A complete lift of the blockade is the only desirable outcome and where ALL* parties involved can come to the table and hash out a deal based on co-existence, mutual respect and a framework which will allow for social and economic development for Palestinian and Israeli alike…
Amen!!!
THE SUMMATION OF FACTS RELATING TO THE ARAB CLAIM:
Myth # 1: ‘ Arabs have always enjoyed a verdant life in
Palestine’.
Myth # 2: ‘Arabs were always an overwhelming majority
in the country’.
FACT: All eyewitnesse accounts indicate that Arabs
ONLY visited the Land. Throughout history,
the Arab population was ALWAYS a transient
sort of like ‘Here today, gone tomorrow’. They
were so few in numbers that no one even
noticed them.
Myth # 3: ‘Palestine has always been exclusively Arab
homeland.’
FACT: The Word of God, in the Old Testament,
declares, over and over again, that this LAND
is the HOMELAND for Jews. The New
Testament provides amply evidence,
eyewitness account of Jews of Israel and their
Temple in Jerusalem. The Koran so declares
that the Land of Israel is the Jewish
homeland from the Patriarchs – Abraham,
Isaac, and Jacob. Throughout the ages, all
people have also acknowledged this bond.
Throughout all ages, Arabs have also
acknowledged this bond. Muslim religious
and political leaders, as spokesmen for their
Arab constituents of Palestine, have
always expressed the FACT that they were
citizens of another country. No Arab EVER
called themselves Palestinians (until the mid-
20th Century. The Arab homeland, was
ALWAYS elsewhere, from time immemorial.
Myth # 4: Jerusalem is the third holiest Muslim city.
FACT: The Koran declares that the Holy Land is the
Jewish homeland. How could Jerusalem be for
Arabs, if a Muslim sultan voluntarily gifts the
the Roman Emperor, Frederick II? How holy
could Jerusalem be for Arabs IF Jerusalem IS
NEVER mentioned in the Koran? As a matter of
FACT, Mohammed stated very explicitely, that
only Mecca and Medina are cities of religious
importance for Muslims; Israel is for the Jews.
Myth # 5: Jews are newcomers to the area.
Myth # 6: Jerusalem was never a holy city for Jews- let
alone, a Jewish city.
Myth # 7: Jews usurped the rights of millions of Arabs
who were living in the Land in 1948
FACT: Almighty God designated the Holy Land for
Jews, and sovereighnly COVANANTED it to
them more than 3300 years ago, as
emphatically stated, over and over again in
His Word, the Bible. From that time forward,
Jews have lived continuously in this Land.
Documentation to this effect is even found in
the official Muslim proclamations, letters, and
documents; they attest to the age-old Jewish
connection to the Land and to JERUSALEM.
Finally, since there was NEVER an
indigenous Arab population in the Land, and
since this has always been the Jewish Land,
Jews usurped the rights of NO ONE!
Myth # 8: Jews expelled the Arabs from the Land and
transformed them into poor, homeless
refugees.
FACTS: In 1948, Arab organizations and countries,
prevailed upon most Arabs of Palestine TO
LEAVE the Land. The resason this was
done, was, the Arab leaders warned their
people that INVADING Arab armies would be
murdering EVERY living person in the Land;
with Arabs OUT OF THE COUNTRY. Arab
invaders would THEN feel confident that they
would be KILLING ONLY JEWS. The Arabs
of Palestine left VOLUNTARILY, of the
472, 000 who left, many settled in Arab
countries, and most pray for the day when
Arab armies drive the Jews out of Israel.
Someone should tell the Arabs that they will
have to wait BEYONG FOREVER, because,
very soon, the entire world, will understand
the prophecy of:
“I WILL plant them upon THEIR LAND, (Israel) and they WILL NEVER again be uprooted from THEIR LAND that I (Almighty God) have GIVEN THEM” ( Amos 9:15) emphasis added.
Edom Becomes Larger Symbol:
Ezekiel fortold that God will judge ALL Edom (referring to all Arabs) for appropriating Israel’s Land. This judgment comes in the LAST DAYS when Almighty God miraculously recalls the Israelites from all the countries where He scattered them. That time is NOW. Hear Almighty God:
“This is what the SOVEREIGN LORD says: In My burning zeal I have SPOKEN against the REST of nations, and against ALL EDOM, for with glee and with malice in THEIR hearts, they made MY LAND their own possession so that they might plunder its pastureland.” (Ezekiel 17: 14-16) emphasis added.
God warns Edom (collective name for all Arabs) again about judgment that will FALL at the coming of the Messiah, the Lord Jesus Christ. The reason is clearly given:
“This is what the LORD says: “For three sins of Edom, even four, I will NOT turn back from My wrath. BECAUSE, he pursued his brother [Israel] with a sword, stifling all compassion, because his anger raged continually and his flamed unchecked, I WILL SEND FIRE upon Teman that will consume the fortresses of Bozrah.” ( Amos 1: 11-12 (NIV) emphasis added.
Psalm 83 prophetically tells us of the final MADE ATTEMPT by the ancient descendants of Abraham’s other sons to DESTROY ISRAEL. It shows that Edom and Ishmael are linked together and leading the conspiracy to WIPE ISRAEL off the earth. Just look at the list of Israerl’s foes in “the last days”. It reads like a ‘Who’s Who” of their ancient enemies.
“Do not keep silent, O God! Do not hold Your peace, And do not be still, O God! For behold, Your enemies make a tumult; And those who HATE You have lifted up their head. They have taken crafty counsel AGAINST YOUR PEOPLE, and consulted together against Your sheltered ones. They have said, “Come, and let us CUT them off from BEING A NATION, that the NAME of ISRAEL may be remembered NO MORE.” For they have consulted together with one consent; they form a confederacy AGAINST YOU. The tents of Edom, and the Ishmaelites, Moab and the Hagrites; Gebal, Ammon and Amalek, Philistia with the inhabitants of Tyre; Assyria also joined with them; they have helped the children of Lot…Who said, “Let us take for ourselves the pastures of God for a possession.” (Psalm 83: 1-12 (NKJV) emphasis added.
Edom and the Ishmaelites are the primary Arab people. The descendants of Moab, the Hagrites, Gebal, Ammon, Amalek and Philistia melted in the mixed group that were asborbed by the Arab culture, and later converted to Islam. Today, these people make up the nation of Jordan, Saudi Arabia, United Arab Emirates, Oman, and:
*Tyre is now Lebanon
*Assyria is modern Syria
*Persia is modern Iran
ALL of these people are linked together by their common continuous ENMITY towards Israel.
@ Zoe..
Just like Dictionary, you too have failed to address the topic of the blog and the resulting questions.
Your pro Israel stance and your refusal to admit to Israeli transgression, simply destroys what little credibility you had to start with.
Your history lessons are biased and serves no purpose in the discussion, not to mention very misleading. This is to be expected by your ilk though as seen by your contribution to the Haiti thread.
Christians who care NOTHING about human suffering as long as they could connect it to prophecy or blame it on the victims for not obeying God. Only God know what you would attribute a death in your own family to. You are a piece of work!!
The Name ‘Israel’ occurs in 1,695 verses in the Bible, both in the OT, and the NT.
We’re At War: Islam’s ‘Jihad’ Against the West.
“Over the rest of this decade, the divide between radical Islam and the industrial democracies will become the most destablizing factor in world affairs”
(Joseph Courcy, Intelligence Digest, January 24, 1992)
“The governments of THE WORLD should know that Islam CANNOT be defeated. Islam will be victorious in ALL THE COUNTRIES of the world, and Islam and the teaching of the Koran WILL PREVAIL ALL OVER THE WORLD.” (Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini of Iran) emphasis added.
The New Peril We Face.
More than at any time since the Crusades, Islam is posing a serious threat to the Western world. It now possesses the wealth and the weaponary to supplant the Soviet Union as the greatest challenge to the United States, Israel and the Western Judeo-Christian based world order.
Islamic Fundamentalism, the Real Threat.
At least 10 percent of the 1.3 billion Muslims are Fundamentalists, this is potential terrorists threats. An intelligence information indicates their percentage is growing. History shows that the devout Muslim Fundamentalists are one of the most lethal threats the world has ever seen.
Why The Cover Up?
Just like many throughout the world, likewise, right here on BU, we find commenters, who are GROSSLY ignorant of the historic FACTS, and stupidly, only want to ‘isolate’ the flotilla incident and the human suffering of the Gaza residents, whose plight WAS brought on by the Terrorist entity, HAMAS, and they then throw out the ‘redherring’ that ‘….Christians who care NOTHING about human suffering as long as they could connect it to prophecy….” What UTTER CRAP, HOGWASH!
These idiots, incapable of any kind of critical though, knowing little or nothing about the historic reality re Israel and the Islamic Arabs, who tortured, and KILLED untold numbers of Jews in Arab countries, and the Jews living in Arab countries for hundreds of years, prior to the modern State of Israel (1948) were terrorized, murdered, and DRIVEN OUT. Their properties and assets were confiscated. Those who escaped were thankful just to be alive, and return to their ancient homeland, in 1948 and following.
Whereas, the Arabs,so- called Palestinians, were DELIBERATELY forced into refugee camps, NOT by the Jews, but by their own Arab brothers, (i.e., Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia) and NOT permitted to integrate into the society of their UNWILLING hosts, even though they were fellow MUSLIMS. They didn’t even try to help them; instead, they prevailed upon the United Nations to supply the refugees’ needs. Kept in these camps by their OWN people for more than fifty years, they are USED as political pawns so Muslim negotiators can continue to trup up charges of “Israeli aggression” nasty, vicious, LIES, Arab ‘Turnspeak’ wicked inversion of the FACTS.
The human suffering in Gaza, IS A DIRECT result of HAMAS, that wicked, evil, TERRORIST entity, who caused terrible human suffering on innocent Israel people, for the last three years, by launching over 8,000 rockets into Israel, not to mention the numerous suicide-bombers who have killed many innocent women, men, and children, and the continued AGENDA, by Hamas et al, to WIPE Israel off the earth, can anyone imagine the deep emotional anxiety and trauma, that Jews, Arabs, and others, who live in Israel, go through with this CONSTANT THREAT of annihilation hanging over their heads.
Also, hundreds, if not thousands of Palestinians, children, men and women, are lovinging treated in Israeli Hospitals, on a regular day to day basis, and there IS a testimony by an Arab, Muslim women, who was recently treated by Israeli doctors, and said, ”….the TRUTH about the kindness of the Jews….is NOT being told…”
It was recently said by a journalist, who visited Gaza, that he went to many different places, all over the towns, and that this ‘SUFFERING’ is nothing but Arab propaganda, that the stores are filled with everything that’s needed, lovely resturants with the best of food, etc, etc.
And, BTW, talk about human suffering and grief. What about the nearly 26,000 Jewish casualities from 1993 and the ensuing 12 years? All inflicted by vicious ARAB Terrorists on Jews in their own homeland?
It is simply not possible to dialogue with emotional rant, laced with redherrings, and personal ad hominem attacks, who are utterly unable to THINK critically.
Now, being ‘devil’s advocate’ (probably create a stir by that phrase) here…
Zoe says ‘More than at any time since the Crusades
>>> Have the crusades actually stopped, I note that there are now claims that Afghanistan has trillions of dollars in mineral wealth…coincidence???
Islam is posing a serious threat to the Western world. It now possesses the wealth and the weaponary to supplant the Soviet Union
>>>Nonsense, if anyone has supplanted the USSR, it is China. the Arab nations are WAY, WAY behind and in any case the USSR has ‘Putin’, lol!!! Note that I use the ‘USSR’ abbreviation deliberately.
as the greatest challenge to the United States, Israel and the Western Judeo-Christian based world order
>> So, what is ‘world order’ referring to? Where is it written that any particular order has precedence? Why should we fight, surely many ‘orders’ may exist?
If I want to be a ‘living in the wild hippie’ worshipping the Sun god, who has a right to tell me otherwise? Supposing Sun god worshippers become widespread and become the predominant ‘culture’?
Do you take issue with that?
Just to clarify, I do believe in God, even if you do not see my belief as being of ‘you’re’ God.
That does not make me wrong, nor you right.
@Crusoe
Brilliant!
This blog of all so far demonstrates why there will NEVER be a resolution to the Arab Israeli conflict.
We have positions which are hardened beyond hard for reasons exemplified in the blog.
@David: “We have positions which are hardened beyond hard for reasons exemplified in the blog.
And you like it hard…
Don’t you, big boy….
Methinks that CH has either been imbibing or has been affected by the writings and inferences of one Bonny Peppa.
He has gone on quite a tangent. Is wifey away or something?
Man suffering from ‘ESB’…excessive ….buildup.
D,
“You have proved yourself unable or unwilling to actually address matters on the merits”
D, when you make a post like that it causes “onlookers” to be concerned about your mental health.
Seriously.
It is has been painfully obvious to “onlookers” that there been several challenges made to you and you have failed, and failed miserably to meet any of them.
Moreover, you have accused those have have engaged you of “false allegations” but failed completely to detail any of them.
Worst of all, you come to this blog and complain immediately of hostility while doing more than your share by labeling fellow bloggers and hurling insults. Such abuse has not even been limited to bloggers as you have to taken several opportunities to hurl sly underhand remarks to David himself.
Your charge of antisemitism to me and those you have engaged you falls flat.
+++
“All I will further say to you is that when your side tries to cite UN Committees on human rights……….”
I quoted from a lot more sources than a UN committee.
But you knew that I am sure.
Now D,
I am on the side that thinks it quite immoral that 9 people should have died (riddled with 30 bullets) over a ship load of cement.
I am on the side that thinks the “open air prison” that is Gaza is an inhumane way to treat people.
I am on the same side ICRC (Red Cross) who calls the blockade illegal.
Which side are you on?
ISLAM: Religious-Cultural Imperialism.
Islam is nothing less than a religious-cultural imperialism, that works to TAKE OVER THE WORLD. This is why Mohammad divided the earth into two spheres:
*Dar al-Islam – the land of peace.
*Dar al-harb – the land of WAR.
Muhammad believed, as do radical Islamists TODAY, whose numbers are growing rapidly throughout the world, that the Muslim is in a perpetual state of *Jihad* – ‘holy war’ with ALL countries in the Dar al-harb sphere. The true follower believes that Allah has willed for Muslims to ESTABLISH Islamic ways over the whole world; either by conversion, or SWORD.
Islam believes this doctrine IS especially applicable to the Middle East, which they claim as the center of their world. They contend that any land captured and held by Muslim forces in the past is sacred. BUT, their MYTHS built around Jerusalem and Palestine, make it second only to Mecca and Medina as a most holy place.
When the Jews, after 2000 years of dispersion throughout the world, were finally given back their ancient homeland, as repeatedly prophecied in the Word of God, the Bible, and the Jews, declared soverignty over this LAND in 1948, it was considered “Al Nabka” – a catastrophe; which is viewed by Muslims as the ultimate blasphemy to Islam, a descration of the “Third Holiest Place to Islam,” and an insult to Allah that must be cleansed.
Israel’s victories over the “armies of Allah” in five wars, have placed the Koran in jeopardy, for it promises the forces of Islam victory in “holy wars,” Devout Muslims fervently believe this is something that must be rectified. Nothing can remove this insult to Allah, but a final military defeat of Israel
This is why Muslim forces fought European Crusaders for three centuries over “the Holy Land.” But now that the Jew has finally returned to his ancient homeland, Islamic’s ancient ENMITY toward them has made this an intolerable insult. They point to Israel as “a cancer in the heart of Islam that must be removed.”
Western Civilization just DOES NOT understand this basic Islamic ideology. Western media particularly DON’T HAVE A CLUE as to what motivates the Muslim, or what strategies he will USE to FULFILL his duty to Allah. This is why they swallow MUSLIM PROPAGANDA ‘hook, line and sinker.’
This is why the modern Arab *MYTHS* spun about “legitimate rights of the Palestinian refugees’ and “Israel’s occupation of Palestinian territory” are BASED on monstrous DISTORTIONS of history.
As Mohammad said, “War is deception.” He set the example for negotiating peace with any enemy UNTIL you are strong enough to *annihilate* him. It is called “the Quraysh Model.” This was the ten-year treaty Mohammad signed with the Quraysh tribe of Mecca, which within a year he broke by destroying them. This is how he conquered Mecca and made it the holiest site in Islam, through treachery.
This very tool of utter deception that Mohammad used, is EXACTLY the same ‘tool’ used by Arafat, make some kind of so-called ‘road-map to peace’ the ‘peace process’ UNTIL you are strong enough to ANNIHILATE Israel.
And, no matter what Abbas said in recent days, about making peace with Israel, to Obama, he is a LIAR, no different to Arafat.
It is our duty to impliment the principles of Yasir Arafat.
This was a change without a change,TRUE to the PLO colors, the night following Abbas election in January 2005. Abbas publictly PROCLAIMED that he would INTENSIFY the WAR against Israel:
“The little JIHAD [under Arafat] had ended, and NOW the big JIHAD is beginning.” But, everyone wants to ignore, or forget these types of remarks and Israel is pressured to give UP MORE AND MORE land, not for peace, but only as confidence building measures, to show the “Palestinian” people that their leader is able to gain MORE and MORE territory, for them with ‘no strings attached’, so that Israel will be whittled down by him, little by little; according to the doctrine of the PLO Phased Plan. And four months later in a televised speech, on the occasion of Israel’s Independence Day, Abbas, this so-called, “moderate” leader described the 1948 creation of the State of Israel as an unprecedented historic crime and VOWED his unwavering refusal to EVER “accept this injustice.”
Hear Abbas:
“We will celebrate once we REACH OUR GOALS and establish a Palestinian state with Jerusalem as its capital…Jerusalem is closer than ever. We PROMISE you, Arafat…will will continue to follow your path and carry out your promise that Palestinian girls and boys will wave the Palestinian flag above the walls of Jerusalem, its mosques and churches. We will continue until victory…Our forces…are ready to FREE the ENTIRE homeland [Israel].”
And, Western media, and its political leaders, continue to fall for this TRAP, utter LIES and blatant DECEPTION, of which the Arabs are Past-Masters, whose sole intent and agenda, once they get close enough to the ‘heart’ of Israel, and with enough military might, will ATTEMPT once again, to ANNIHILATE Israel and all Jews.
BUT, it CAN’T happen, will NEVER happen, as when the evidence can NO longer be purposely ignored or misinterpreted, or DENIED, the nations of the world will be forced to publicly admit, that they had been ‘lying through their teeth, about Muslims, throughout the world, inculding the Middle East.
And, as Almighty God, the ONE who gave this LAND to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and their descendants, as an EVERLATING POSSESSION, states:
“Finally, they will be disgraced, ALL of them who are against you…[Israel). (Isaiah 41:11).
Literally: “All who were angry with you shall be disgraced and humiliated; they who struggle with you, shall become as nothing and shall perish.”
@ Zoe…
Does Israel do anything wrong?
Zoe rants…’BUT, it CAN’T happen, will NEVER happen, as when the evidence can NO longer be purposely ignored or misinterpreted, or DENIED, the nations of the world will be forced to publicly admit, that they had been ‘lying through their teeth, about Muslims, throughout the world, inculding the Middle East.
What a tirade!!
If this is not anti Muslim, I don’t know what is. This clearly shows Zoe for what he truly is!!
His issue is not Israel and the ME, this guy hates Muslims altogether…period!!
For a man who has been a religious nomad (by his own admission on this blog) for the better part of his life, we can clearly see the confusion, poor soul, being at the self created crossroads in life can send even the strongest of us, a bit crazy!!
Onlookers:L
Re: Technician: >> . . . like Dictionary, you too have failed to address the topic of the blog and the resulting questions. >>
Bald faced, willful, irresponsible and damaging falsehood in the teeth of easily accessible truth.
In short, willful, libellous falsehood.
I took time to answer the issue of this blog, linking my own blog’s June 1st post, updated as more videos came in — I just used up the allowance of links per comment, set on request of those who in previous months objected to my linking documentation for my claims, onlookers [part of why this blog is no longer a serious forum for discussion issues] — with no less than now eight videos of undeniable facts; facts that those who trumpet the mantra of antisemitic agit-prop above are evading. In a following post, I took time to analyse and address the rhetorical problems and agendas that lie at the root of what happened in this case.
I also took time to show the context, including how it is quite evident that the reason this happened at this time is that Mr Abbas was preparing what was obviously a very carefully developed presentaito0n at the Brookings Institution on the basis for a reasonable compromise solution to settle Arab and Israeli differences. But, as has ALWAYS happened since 1920 [cf my previously linked balancing survey on the modern history of Israel ], more violent voices have yet again prevailed, as usual from the Arab side. (Most recently, in 2000, when Arafat walked away from the best compromise deal that Arabs could reasonably hope for, to wage what has now been a decade of terrorist war.)
And, on the wider issue of the barrage of myths and worse put forth as as “questions” and assertions driven by decaders of militant agit prop in support of an ongoing agenda to wipe out the Jews of the Holy Land [cf the documented remarks of Iran's leadership, and from the Hamas covenant, clause 7 above, etc etc], I took time to point out sources which address such at — quite literally –book length.
What has happened in this thread is that myths and false accusationsare being substituted for facts by those unwilling to examine and respond to corrective facts.
Then, outright lies and slanders are being used to smear those who dared to correct Especially when our backs are turned. As T just tried on me: accusing Zoe on the premise of a “proved” fact on the undersigned. but in fact both Zoe and I have addressed issues on the merits, and in considerable details.
Technician is joining in the pattern of irresponsible rhetorical misbehaviour that is turning BU into a willful echo chamber of lies, myths, misinformation, false accusation and hostility.
Which is why I have left BU.
Good day
D
PS 1: Link to my discussion of the drowned out Abbas compromise offer.
PS 2: Link to my discussion of the irresponsible rhetorical tactics that are being used to poison the atmosphere at Bu and far beyond BU.
PS 3: Link again to a June 11, 5:01 AM comment above where I linked corrective information on myths vs facts etc. Onlookers, note how, consistently, this information has not been addressed cogently by those propagating irresponsible falsehoods, but has instead been repeatedly ignored and buried under an avalanche of reiteration of corrected falsehoods. Wilson, in his utterly dishonest “Arte of Rhetorique,” pointed out centuries ago, that the most effective tactic for addressing inconvenient facts is to pretend that it does not exist, if you can get away with it.
PS4: And, again I cited Abbas for the vital reason that he not only has offered a compromise but has grounded it by acknowledging the historic roots of the Jewish people in Israel. That is, as I have repeatedly pointed out, BOTH Jews and Arabs (among others) have legitimate claims, and should reasonably settle them by compromise. But, there is an underlying too often violent agenda of Islamist, Mahdist and Arabist supremacism that have undermined every attempt at reasonable compromise since the Weizmann-Feisal Hussein Versailles side-agreement of 1919. In this case, the timing of the Marmara incident is far too suggestive, given the history and given the connexions of those involved in instigating it from the Turkish-Arab and Western activist sides. [In short, we need to look beyond trhe headlines to see what is really going on.]
PS 5: Onlookers, finally, on long experience, I have learned that if a commenter is unwilling to acknowledge this basic fact of the legitimacy of a Jewish claim to rootedness in the Holy Land, then s/he is unable to understand or reasonably address the ME situation. And that is a lot of what is driving what is happening above. Zoe is thus dead right to point out how the Waqf, for a decade has been assiduously seeking to destroy the clear archeological evidence of the history of Temple Mount, in the spiritual heart of Jerusalem. But then, precisely through the hard hearted willful suppression of truth and reasonable compromise, Psalm 83 is being fulfilled before our eyes, as is Ezekiel 35 – 39. Not to mention Rom 1.
Dictionary:
You, sir, are delusional.
We on this blog are not asking for the multi-links as listed, we regard them as useless diversionary propaganda.
We do not want myths, only facts.
Where is your evidence that the President of Iran has consistently called for genocide.
Given your obvious inability to provide any, I personally think you have none, and thus unfortunately I have to say all your contributions to the blog are similarly contrived, and should be disregarded as the ramblings of a useful idiot.
Your oft promised departure from this thread would be most welcome, from both sides of the debate, as it needs no lies to muddy the waters of a serous discussion
about a situation which seriously affects world peace.
If Iran is attacked the whole world will be affected ,,,,,, and it won’t be for the better.
@ Dictionary….
When you called me a Jihadi, was that not slander?
When you called me a world traveller, was that not slander?
You should be the last to speak of slander as both you and Zoe have dne it.
I don’t give 2 hoots about you personally, whether yoi live or die is of no consequence to me. What I am concerned about is the position people like you hold in society and the way you and your ilk try continuously to manipulate the minds of the weak, into believing your dogma. When those who see you for what you are have to speak out, we are labelled. This is an old familiar pattern which has become useless in the modern world.
If you are leaving BU, then just go. You have your own blog, so discuss it there. Funny that I don’t see you brothers posting on your blog..lol.
You Dick, are a pompous, arrogant fool who thinks you can bully people because you might be well read and learned. Maybe if you had an ounce of humility and a dose of honesty, rather than an abundance of religious bias to support prophecy,maybe, then, you would SEEM a bit more credible.
So run along now, sulking with your tail between your legs and take your sidekick Zoe with you, for if BU is such a horrible place, I don’t see why people like you and Zoe are so addicted to it.
I had a dream last night.
There was a bright light backed by the sounds of lilting harps.
The sense of peace was all pervasive, almost touchable.
A heavenly voice then commanded ” Do unto others as you would have done unto you”
In my slumber I mouthed ” but what about the Palestinians, my lord?”
To which the deity replied ” You not listening to me, cloth ears”
Then I awoke all of ashiver.
Should I write this down and bury it in a pot for eschatologists to dissect in 3000 years time, should I post it on this blog anonymously, or discuss it with my GP and risk committal to Jenkins.
So many decisions for a would-be prophet to make.
“Ignorance, when voluntary, is criminal”
-Samuel Johnson
“There is NO MORE terrible sight than ignorance in action”
-Goethe
“Ignorance has something to be said for it. It gives rise to about nine-tenths of the WORLDS CONVERSATIONAL OUTPUT”
Technician, you ARE the living personification of the above; reaffirmed over and over again, in your utterly, EMPTY headed, voidless, lies, slander, and resolute inability to make any statement based of the slightest of credible facts or truth.
Credible, warranted truth, historical evidence, re Israel and its vicious enemies, are ALL well documented, some of which have been posted here on BU, and you, Technician, et al of your ignorant ilk, have NOT offered one single cogent, coherent, statement, any IDIOT, like you, even a child, could easily scribble, the void, EMPTY, vacant, vacuous, destitute, denuded, nonsense thay you scribble, it takes NO intelligence or knowledge whatsoever, to write the BS that comes from you.
Carry on smartly, in the cavity of your slanderous ignorance.
D says…’PS 5: Onlookers, finally, on long experience, I have learned that if a commenter is unwilling to acknowledge this basic fact of the legitimacy of a Jewish claim to rootedness in the Holy Land, then s/he is unable to understand or reasonably address the ME situation. And that is a lot of what is driving what is happening above.’
What the hell does that have to do with the IDF refusing to provide medical treatment to civilians( were they proven to be terrorists, the survivors would not have been released)who were shot multiple times.
What the hell does that have to do with the shooting deaths(execution style) of Turkish citizens on a civilian ship oin international waters?
What the hell does that have to do with the illegal blockade and the continued collective punishment of innocent Palestinian civilians?
By this logic, not knowing history disqualifies you from knowing right from wrong morally . What brilliant logic!!
I guess one who is/was not familiar with history should see nothing wrong with slavery,segregation or servitude.
Then again, all these atrocities were perpetrated under the guise of Religion and the interpretation of God’s word,the Bible.
@ Zoe…
Finally you have the testicular fortitude to adress me directly …wow.
You rant..’Just like many throughout the world, likewise, right here on BU, we find commenters, who are GROSSLY ignorant of the historic FACTS, and stupidly, only want to ‘isolate’ the flotilla incident and the human suffering of the Gaza residents, whose plight WAS brought on by the Terrorist entity, HAMAS, and they then throw out the ‘redherring’ that ‘….Christians who care NOTHING about human suffering as long as they could connect it to prophecy….” What UTTER CRAP, HOGWASH!
Where was your concern for the Haitian people,as a Christian, in their time of need and suffering?
You quote the number of Israeli casualties but as usual, refuse to acknowledge, that in the same situation, the number of Palestinian casualties are dis proportionally higher.
You can call me what you choose, talk is cheap but YOUR record as a CHRISTIAN, concerned with human suffering is here for all to see.
You are a religious nomad, currently drinking from the Evangelical pool, until you move on in your meandering life of religious dogmas.
I have and will continue to carry on smartly but in the spirit of morality and justice, that is not hindered by the blinkers of religion and prophecy.
@ Technician, Your contemptuous ARROGANCE is exceeded only by your IGNORANCE.
If any man be IGNORANT, let him to IGNORANT!
So it be with YOU!
Yet again Dictionary emails BU with the accusation of facilitating anti-Semitism. This time he copies WordPress.
@ Zoe..
My ignorance in Biblical matters is by CHOICE!!
It is otherwise called free thinking. I will not allow religious dogmas, beliefs or prophecy to blind me to the injustices and atrocities been perpetrated by those under the guise of Christianity. If that is ignorance and arrogance then I stand guilty as charged.
My views on this world and the events going on are not fuelled by religious dogma or religious ideas. I am not waiting for any prophecy to be fulfilled,that is your job.
I am a network technician with a small business, where my goal is to provide for me and my family, while giving gainful employment to a few less fortunate and in turn train them that they too can achieve something.
All you do is insult an label those who don’t agree with you.
Like I said before Zoe..talk is cheap!!
You are still in my opinion, a religious nomad. Check back in 2 years, let’s see where your meandering journey takes you and whose dogma you will attach yourself to like the parasite you are.
@ David..
What did you expect? Are you entirely surprised?
When Dick can accuse BU of anti semitism and also copy it to WordPress, what does that tell you about his mentality?
@Techie
Have to admit we find his report to WordPress to be a little extreme. One can only conclude that he his anti-freedom of expression. It seems the non-Barbadians are doing their best to shut BU down. We have the Canadians connected to the Nelson matter who have tried. Now we have another* Jamaican.
In response the BU household say this to Dictionary et al, the more you put BU to the fire the stronger it will become. When the reason for doing something, anything is rooted in what is just there is no stopping its success.
David of BU:
Sigh . . .
Let us go up to comment no 1 this very thread:
Notice that ever so telling rhetorical move from “murderous Israelis” — itself dubious on the evidence — to “JEWISH killers” (a racially loaded libel)?
This demonstrates plainly for all to see (and I suspect WordPress is now watching), a capital example of how in the name of objection to an asserted Israeli atrocity — and the evidence from videotapes etc is not in support of the unprovoked, murderous atrocity claim that has been trumpeted to the world by biased media; but instead supports that we had violent knowing willful blockade breakers who assaulted soldiers enforcing a legitimate act of war at sea, with plainly lethal force — we have an inference to a blood libel assertion about JEWS.
Blood libels like this, David, are a longstanding tactic of those who hate and wish ill to Jews.
Nowhere above do we see signs that this is corrected, or retracted or repudiated or removed; it is there for us all to inspect as THE VERY FIRST COMMENT.
(And in my remarks to you, ccd WordPress, I spoke to this specific comment, David. If your blog is hosting uncorrected blood libels against Jews as a race, as this comment plainly is, then your blog is enabling antisemitism, period. Similarly Hopi’s call to arson against churches has been there for months upon months, David. And there are many many other remarks by frequent commenters like that that have stood uncorrected and unrestrained by you the blog owner, for a very long time. Not to mention the trifecta pattern of distraction distortion and denigration, including the last straw false accusation by Technician above that i evaded answering tot he focal issue of the blog and evaded answering to the many “questions” raised.. Enough is enough. Your commenters and now you by enabling and tolerating them in their misbehaviour have gone too far.)
I trust you can explain yourself adequately to WordPress, given comments like the one in no 1 this thread, and many others as the WP investigators run down the thread and others.
As for me, as I said earlier today, your right to swing your arm ends where my nose begins, and your right to speak your mind ends where defamation, false accusation and calls to hate — the first step to murder, David — begin.
This is a serious matter, and BU needs to wake up and look itself in the mirror.
As for just reiterated myths and worse, I have already directed commenters to where they can find corrections.
In fact, on the libel that Israelis refuse medical treatment to Palestinian Arabs, the easily confirmed truth is that many, many Palestinian Arabs are routinely treated in Israeli hospitals, not just civilians but wounded fighters; as is normal for Western countries. As can easily be checked. And so on and so forth, at book length. As long since linked, if commenters like that cared for the truth instead of to sow pernicious misinformation to stir up hostility and rage congealing into hate.
Hate for not just Israelis, abut as Mr Cadogan shows, hate for JEWS. Antisemitism in one word.
Good day, sirs
Dictionary
Please post your evidence, you are a proven liar.
Ahmedinejad consistently calls for genocide.
So when you Dictionary called Technician a Jihadi, what was that called, slander,libel? You don’t even know me.
You Dictionary are a hypocritical liar!!
As soon as anyone in the world have to speak out on any wrong doings by Jewish people, they are labelled as anti semitic.
D says…’In fact, on the libel that Israelis refuse medical treatment to Palestinian Arabs, the easily confirmed truth is that many, many Palestinian Arabs are routinely treated in Israeli hospitals, not just civilians but wounded fighters; as is normal for Western countries. As can easily be checked. And so on and so forth, at book length. As long since linked, if commenters like that cared for the truth instead of to sow pernicious misinformation to stir up hostility and rage congealing into hate.’
Eye witness accounts on board the ship said that the IDF refused medical treatment to the wounded.
Here D comes with a straw man to mislead others(who are stupid enough)into believing that the comment is referring to everyday occurrences in the ME. The comment was made in reference to the flotilla incident.
Who is being deceitful here?
Who is misleading here?
Stupse!! For shame!!
You should be ashamed to complain about BU. You come on threads and monopolise it with numerous links back to your own blog under the guise of correcting onlookers.
David has been more than accommodating to you,even with your condescending attitude towards him at times.
Shame on you!!
Technician,
You know or full well ought to, that I pointed out on your behaviour — and with considerable evidence — that you seemed to be either a jihadist or a fellow traveller; which often happens with the sort of fashionable leftists, secularists and neopagans found involved with the recent flotilla, at the extreme end.
Spouting or supporting jihadist agit-prop as if it were the gospel truth, in the teeth of easily accessible correction, counts [though not quite at the level of voluntarily providing human shields for attempted breaking of a blockade meant to stop a campaign of firing thousands of rockets at civilian cities, on the pretence of a humanitarian CRISIS that on evidence, is not so -- hardship is not to be equated to starvation].
Not being able to respond on the merits tot he antisemitism that is evident in this thread form its very first comment, , you are resorting to the time-worn distractive fallacy of obfuscation of an issue through attempted assertion of immoral equivalency.
SORRY, IT’S NOT GOING TO WORK. NOT THIS TIME.
And the onward willfulness and distraction attempts simply underscore the antisemitism, WordPress. Observe that the response has been to try to shoot the messenger, not to deal with the problem. Compounding, stubborn insistence on wrong.
D
Dictionary, you and Zoe are jokers and bullies.
The only truth here seems to be what you and Zoe says. No one else can have another opinion or view. It has to be your way or not at all. It is the ‘gospel’ according to you. ROFLMFAO!!
IT AINT GONNA HAPPEN GORDON!!
Get a life and a grip, this is not your class room, neither is it your home.
BTW..thought you left BU, have you no shame?
That’s what pride and a huge ego does to you, you just can’t help..LMFAO!!
Big ego Dick, can’t stay away from the very blog he complains about…for shame!!
It is contemptible that Dictionary should pull out that old canard of calling those critics of Israel’s treatment of Palestinians, antisemitic. Dictionary has suggested that evil and malice towards others is characteristic of Muslims to a significantly higher degree than that which exists in other groups. He has come to this conclusion based on his interpretation of the Qur’an. Consequently he has even called for special and intense surveillance of Muslim citizens in the Caribbean. Dictionary is thus guilty of preaching hate towards Muslims in Caribbean. BU has allowed all views to be posted. It is thus dishonest in the extreme to suggest that BU is anti-Jewish when it can be clearly shown that the posts of at least two persons which are completely supportive of Israel have been posted without censor or obstruction. It is conclusive that Dictionary is a dishonest person and in my inexpert judgment possibly an emotionally unbalanced person as well. It is my belief that given Dictionary’s unwillingness to keep his promise to remove himself from BU that the editor should make an honest man out of Dictionary by banning him from this blog.
By the way, being a “secularist” or a “leftist” is neither a crime nor a wicked act. It is actually the position of many rational human beings who have advanced the cause of a democratic, equitable and sustainable society. I have no idea what is a “neopagan” .
Lol @ neopagan Anon.
I am trying to find out too.
Technician has so many labels now, I can’t keep count lol.
@Technician: “Technician has so many labels now, I can’t keep count lol.
This means you’re doing something which some others don’t like…
Keep doing it….
@ Technician
Have you contemplated the possible consequences of your meeting the BU trinity on a dark night in the park? IMHO those three would crucify your electric behind – and they would do in God’s name and ‘for the good of mankind’ – and for good measure they would probably hang Terence and Bonny Peppa on your right and left hands respectively….. LOL ( fortunately, the bushman back in their good books, so I may be called on to give you a little juck with a spear or something rotfl)
Just goes to show how things went with Jesus.
All the man did was to ask a few simple questions(like you do) of the then ‘know it all’ Scribes and Pharisees.
Having no sensible answers for you, rather than recognize the shortcomings of their own knowledge and open themselves to listen, learn and upgrade their learning, they prefer insult, put down, and IMHO, (given a chance,) to have you ‘put away’
.
Is it not ironic that it is always some religious nutcase who wants to solve problems by aggression and conflict? …to the point of war, murder and crusades….
….seems like – as were the scribes and Pharisees
so are the Jews and Israelis
…and now too, is the BU trinity….
“[part of why this blog is no longer a serious forum for discussion issues]”
So why are you here?
Perhaps you are not serious.
Just parody.
David,
Presumably Dictionary also reported BU to WordPress for this comment…
Zoe // June 10, 2010 at 9:35 AM
Muslims have murdered MILLIONS and MILLIONS of non-Muslims in just the last two decades of the 20th Century. ………………… Muslims are responsible for most HATE-DRIVEN violence in the world
http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/opinion/give-them-an-inquiry-1.297139
Some excerpts…….
“True, Israel is the one that imposed the siege and jailed 1.5 million civilians in a prison into which it threw food and medicine, following a very orderly list and in line with the number of calories each person needs to survive.
Everyone watched, heard and remained silent – the Turkish prime minister and president, who until Operation Cast Lead did not really raise their voices, two American presidents, two UN secretaries-general, and European heads of state. In other words, they spoke endlessly, initiated resolutions, tried to mediate, but in the end raised their hands in surrender. After all, it is an internal Israeli-Palestinian matter that does not really pose a threat to world peace. A million and a half jailed Palestinians? It’s Hamas’ fault, not Israel’s. ”
+++
“An international inquiry into the foolishness of Israel’s policy is unnecessary. There is no need to busy the world with something that is obvious and needs no proof.”
+++
“An international inquiry should have a different mandate: to look into how Israel managed to sell its destructive policy to the countries of the world, how they agreed to the jailing of 1.5 million people without a UN resolution. “
http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/opinion/the-patriot-1.297140
The patriot
What does the Israeli patriot want? What state exactly does he dream of before falling asleep at night? What society does he hope for while immersed in his morning routine?
By Gideon Levy
“What does the Israeli patriot want? What state exactly does he dream of before falling asleep at night? What society does he hope for while immersed in his morning routine?
Incitement, slander and boycott campaigns have recently been launched here against Turkey, Sweden, the High Court of Justice, B’Tselem, the New Israel Fund, the media, Richard Goldstone, Noam Chomsky, Elvis Costello, the Pixies, Ahmed Tibi, Hanin Zuabi, Tali Fahima, Barack Obama, Anat Kamm and the rest of the world, and also a bit against yours truly. A hypocritical, fallacious and depressing worldview emerges from these campaigns.
No, he is not a villain, the Israeli patriot – he is merely brainwashed and blind”
+++
“The Israeli patriot wants the world to love us unconditionally and without limits. Yet at the same time, he wants to ignore the whole world and spit contemptuously on its institutions, conventions and laws. He wants a package deal with Turkey, all-inclusive, but not including listening to what the Turks have to say. He wants to spread white phosphorus in Gaza and have the world recite, like himself, that it’s white rain. He wants the United Nations to impose sanctions on Iran, but to disregard its own resolutions related to Israel. He wants a half-Iranian regime here, but portrayed as liberal in all the tourist guidebooks.”
+++
“And above all, he wants to protect Israeli soldiers and their commanders, unconditionally. They must remain immune from any criticism. They killed two women waving a white flag in Gaza? They shot a Jerusalem driver at close range? They killed – perhaps unnecessarily – Turks on a flotilla? Anyone who mentions such things is a traitor. “
Haaretz is Israel’s oldest daily newspaper and considered its most influential.
This is the article that totally destroys the case of Dictionary….
http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/israel-navy-reserves-officers-allow-external-gaza-flotilla-probe-1.294536
Israel Navy reserves officers: Allow external Gaza flotilla probe
“First and foremost, we protest the fact that responsibility for the tragic results was immediately thrust onto the organizers of the flotilla,” wrote the officers.
“This demonstrates contempt for the responsibility that belongs principally to the hierarchy of commanders and those who approved the mission. This shows contempt for the values of professionalism, the purity of weapons and for human lives.”
More from the letter of the Navy Reserve Officers to PM Netanyahu
“Nevertheless, we feel serious tactical mistakes in judgment and the use of force were made, primarily the inability to aptly characterize the mission while bearing in mind a civil vessel was being targeted.”
The officers stated that based on their experience as vessel commanders other ways could have been employed to stop the flotilla.
“The MO which was exercised included a high level of friction which we feel was unnecessary, regardless of the type of resistance discovered upon the raid.”
The same arguments, of the Israel Navy reserves officers to Netanyahu have been put to Dictionary.
He failed to meet the challenge.
Worse he charged the blog with slander.
@ BT…
As a Jihadi (have to love this label), do you think the BU Trinity really would like to meet me anywhere dark?
Really now!?!
HAPPY FATHERS DAY
To all the BU Fathers . Technician, Bush Tea , GP .I hope you enjoy your day!
Thanks ac.
Happy Fathers Day to all and to you David of BU.
Long live BU!!
@Jack (Barbados Blog Watch) Bowman (BBW)
1. Magno Yu Heard
well I’m working on it
better yet I’m praying on
simultaneously showing anus when I slay opponents
for some of y’all I know that line gave you a duel
well I ain’t gonna break it down for you f^ck you get a tutor
Hey if the panties fit
You should get the matching bra
Thanks Techie and the very same to you.
Fathers have historically gotten a raw deal in a Barbados context. When you grow up yuh ghun jus be like yuh far, wait till yuh faddah cum home to put some licks in yuh etc. All of this has added up over the years to make the father the ogre in many a family by creating a negative perception. Glad to say it is changing ever so slowly, no doubt thanks to men like Techie, Bush Tea, ROK, MME, Hoodie, Yardbroom, Michael, Terence, Bosun, Ready Done, Brutus, Straight Talk, Bentley,Kiki, Enuff, George, Wishing in Vain, Sylvan, BAFBFP, Austin, Rickford, Looking Glass, Crusoe, Amused, Sargeant, Hants, The Scout, Jeff, Adrian, Negroman, Ruel, Chris, GP, Zoe and the other strong men who frequent BU. We will not always agree but BU is confident when it comes to family matters our BU men are stepping up to the plate. For those who are not we urge you to embrace the role of fatherhood, it is a role no woman can supplant. The sturdy qualities of a man are necessary ingredients to nurture the best child. This view in no way trivializes the role many women have had to play and continue to play as single parents.
@ ac, Technician
Thanks for the fathers day greetings. Fatherhood is actually representative of the ultimate achievement of life on earth…..but that is advanced stuff…. LOL
@ Technician
“As a Jihadi….”
******************
…are you forgetting that one of the trinity boys ‘from the Ja’? Them men does eat Jihadis yuh…. LOL
….it is best to walk in the light Techie…
@Bush Tea
Being “ultimate” is not an easy task for it requires lots of sacrifice and those dads out there who is struffling to get such an achievement . I give you my 100% support. keep up the good work.
Also to mothers everywhere who diligently have to do double parenting . Today you receive honourable mention .
Correction on above comment
Struffling-Struggling
`@ DofBU:
FYI I’m a DJ Daddy too
Supercat – Dj daddy
Daddy’s Home
fathers 4 justice
Daddy’s Gonna Tell You No Lie
A interesting comment from a Canadian journalist, NOT BU.
And jokers like Dictionary and ignorant Zoe would love to shove their propaganda down our throats or have us follow them blindly because of religious beliefs and prophecy?!?
The more I read Zoe and Dictionary, the more convinced I am that they are two of the biggest hypocrites on the internet.
@David
Thanks for the mention on father’s day.
Permit me a small mention of the Uzbek fathers in Kyrgyzstan who at this moment are seeing their sons killed in hundreds and their wives and daughters raped before their eyes…fathers all, we remember them.
Some excerpts from an AP report released today….
“JERUSALEM (AP) — Israel pledged Sunday it will immediately allow all goods into Gaza except weapons and other items deemed to have a military use under its decision to ease its three-year-old blockade of the Palestinian territory.”
+++
“In a critical shift, Israel said it would allow construction materials into Gaza for projects approved by the Palestinian Authority, such as housing and schools, as long as the projects are under international supervision. Up to now, Israel has banned most construction materials, including cement.”
A similar report today in Haaretz,
http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/israel-unveils-procedures-to-ease-gaza-blockade-remains-firm-on-weapons-ban-1.297251
Israel unveils procedures to ease Gaza blockade, remains firm on weapons ban
Change in policy to focus on freeing movement, inflow of building materials;
cabinet agreed in principle last week to relax Israel’s four-year land siege, in plan coordinated with Mideast envoy Blair.
By Barak Ravid
@Not Saved
Do you conclude using your best judgement of course that running the blockade has spurred this change of position from Israel?
The creditability of Dictionary on the issue is now in ruins.
David,
Do you mean to say, has the “flotilla” spurred this change of position by Israel?
@Not Saved
Yes, omitted the word ‘running’
Sorry David, I misread, I now understand your question and the answer is yes.
That was a key argument of this article I linked earlier…
http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/opinion/give-them-an-inquiry-1.297139
“It also suddenly turns out that when the Gaza Strip manages to stir an international crisis, it is possible to ease the conditions of the siege. The list of items that can be imported is stretched like a rubber band. And people are beginning to talk about conditions for operating the Rafah crossing, the European Union is once more proposing to come back and supervise it, and mostly, Washington has awoken and is flexing a muscle. Not because the people of Gaza have been transformed into something the world is genuinely interested in; they have become a strategic threat. Where were all these critics, all the countries that have signed the UN’s human rights conventions, when the siege was put in place and the blockade became asphyxiating? “
David,
LOL
You made me think I misread !
Archive for Mic Pass
Which brings us to the main reason for the flotilla.
It was not an act of terror as Dictionary and Zoe would have the blog believe but an act of defiance to bring awareness to the world,of the plight of the Palestinians in Gaza.
The Israelis, along wth shooting the civillians, also shot themselves in the foot because the wanton act of aggression, coupled with the killing of these activists have not only made the world aware but to stand up and speak out on the illegal and inhumane blockade which has been in existence.
One can only imagine the spin that will come from Zoe and D but to quote their own words….the facts are stubborn things.
DAVID@BU
“historically gotten a raw deal in a Barbados context…”
Thanks for the Father’s Day prop my friend (I appreciate you BIG* GUY*) – my hope is that all the “Dads” (I tend to like this word a bit better) will realize the job at hand and the responsibility of giving, showing and imbibing real LOVE* for our nearest and dearest (most importantly, OUR CHILDREN*)…
DADS* are under threat everywhere especially within the BLACK DIASPORA* (forgive my slant on this – as I know some folks tend to think I only tend see things in BLACK* & white) however, I have lived long enough (thank GOD) to realize the unique struggle faced by my BROTHERS* in arms given the mountains we must climb in our own respective families (especially when our wives, mothers & sisters) don’t seem to understand their own unique roles and there is this crisscrossing of complex social dynamics, domestic & community politics and as sociologists suggest a form of structural conduciveness which continues to inundate every Black family on earth…
This note is to Dictionary.
When communicating with BU please do so on the blog.
Your willingness to report BU to WordPress on the basis of flimsy and nuisance positions means that you have signaled you don’t have the interest of BU at heart, and further like some others before want to stop the vehicle for freedom of expression which BU provides to Barbadians.
ROFLMAO……
Dictionary has no shame at all!!
In other words Dick, de man aint wanna hear ya!!
Ya talk de man name an now want friends…stupse!!
@ David @ BU…
I really must commend you on the way you handle issues on this blog.
I for sure don’t have the patience you show.
You have been insulted, criticised, labelled and eventually reported, especially by those who always claim fairness and honesty.
Yet you press on, ignoring the abuse meted out by them to you.
You are a champion in my books sir!!
Let’s see now if the great Dictionary and his blindly following sidekick Zoe, have the intestinal or testicular fortitude to apologise to you.
Very few in this world today, are able to objectively, critically, and logically, without emotional ‘rant’ see and understand the true position of Israel and Jews, vis-a-vis the Middle East conflict, and, especially the Gaza situation, and REFUSE to remember that just FIVE years ago, Israel, agreed to pressure from the US President, to WITHDRAW completely from Gaza, its rightful territory, and in so doing UPROOT 10,000 Israeli families, for the SAKE OF PEACE, and what did Israel GET in return for such efforts?
The FACTS are all there, HAMAS TERRORIZED Israeli towns over the ensuing years with OVER 8,000 rockets; but that is OK, as long as it is coming from Arab TERRORIST, and this is what Israel got, yet AGAIN, in efforts at making peace with the Palestinians, WAR, as it IS the DECLARED intent, by HAMAS et al to DESTROY Israel, but, that is OK to the world, all the while Israel is seen as the aggressor, HAMAS is never see by the UN, or the world as being wrong, NO, it is always Israel, who is in the wrong.
There are a few, very few people who can THINK critically, objectively, honestly re Israel, Pilar Rahola, a Spanish politician, journalist and activist, bearing in mind that Spain today is ONE of the most hostile nations to Israel, probably, because if its large Muslim population and economic contacts with the Muslim world. Ms. Rahola sums up her feelings with the following statement directed at those constantly assailing Israel:
“WHY, of all the world’s conflicts, ONLY this one interest them? Why a TINY country which struggles to survive is crimminalized? Why does the MANIPULATED information triumph so easily? Why are ALL the people of Israel reduced to a simple mass of murderous imperialists? WHY is there NO Palestinian guilt? Why is Arafat a hero and Sharon a monster? Finally, WHY when it is the ONLY country in the world which is THREATENED with DESTRUCTION, it is the ONLY ONE that nobody considers a VICTIM?”
Rahola then took on the “left” and its hostility to Israel stating:
“Today too, as yesterday, that *LEFT* is hawking totalitarian ideologies, fall in LOVE with dictators and, in its offensive AGAINST Israel, ignores the destruction of fundamental rights. It hates rabbis, but falls in love with *Imams* shouts against the Tsahal [Israeli Defense Forces], but APPLAUDS Hamas’ terrorists; weeps for Palestinian victims, but scorns the Jewish victims. It will NEVER denounce the culture of HATRED, or its preparation for murder. A year ago, at AIPAC’s conference in Washington, I asked the following questions: Why don’t we see demonstrations against enslavement of MILLIONS of Muslim women? Why don’y they declare against the use of BOMB-CARRYING children in the conflicts in which Islam is involved? Why is the LEFT only obsessed with fighting against two of the most solid democracies of the planet, those who have SUFFERED the bloodiest TERRORIST ATTACKS, the United States and Israel?…Because the *Left* no longer has any ideas, only slogans. It no longer defends rights, but PREJUDICES, and the greatest prejudice of all, is the one it has against Israel. I accuse, then, in a formal manner: the main responsibility of the new ANTI-SEMITE hatred, disguised as Anti-Zionism, comes from those who should have to defend freedom, solidarity and progress. Far from it, they DEFEND DESPOTS, forget their victims, and remain SILENT before mediaval ideologies which aim at the destruction of FREE societies. The treason of the LEFT is an authentic treason against modernity.” emphasis added.
Remember the words that came out of the era of the Nazis and their HATRED for and murder of Jews? Those words “NEVER AGAIN” were announced in EVERY country after World War 11.Let’s be totally honest; those words today almost everywhere in the world are HOLLOW and DEVIOD of meanng; as HAMAS, HEZBOLLAH, IRAN et al, repeatedly CALL for the DESTRUCTION and ANNIHILATION of Israel and Jews!
Let us hear a final comment by Ms. Rahola:
“I am not Jewish. Ideologically, I am left and by profession a journalist. Why am I not a anti-Israel as my colleagues? Because as a non-Jew, I have the historical responsibility to fight AGAINST JEWISH HATRED and currently against the HATRED for their historic homeland, Israel. To fight against anti-semitism is not the duty of the Jews, it is the duty of non-Jews. As a journalist, it is my duty to search for the TRUTH beyond prejudice, LIES and manipulations. I am obligated to defend liberty, culture, civic education for children, coexistence and the laws that the Tablets of the Covenant made into universal principles. Principles that Islamic fundamentalism systematically DESTROYS. That is to say that as a non-Jew, journalist and LEFTY, I have a triple moral duty with Israel, because if Israel is DESTROYED, liberty, modernity and culture will be destoryed too. The struggle of Israel, even if the world doesn’t want to accept it, is the struggle of the world.”
But, the Leftists, unlike the intellectual honesty of Ms. Rahola, throughtout the world, and right here on BU, continue their, *excuse-denial- justification* rampant idological nonsense, biased beyond words, filled with LIES, DISTORTION, and utter convolusion of FACTS and truth.
True to form the sidekick appears with a huge serving of propaganda…lol.
Look at how Zoe finally and truthfully, describes Dictionary and himself..’Very few in this world today, are able to objectively, critically, and logically, without emotional ‘rant’ see and understand the true position of Israel and Jews, vis-a-vis the Middle East conflict, and, especially the Gaza situation….’
This religious nomad then goes on to paint Spain as a threat by saying..’ bearing in mind that Spain today is ONE of the most hostile nations to Israel, probably, because if its large Muslim population and economic contacts with the Muslim world.
WTF!!
Here we go again with wild accusations and labels. To say ‘probably’ shows uncertainty. You Zoe are a deceitful person, have you no shame? By your logic any country with Muslims or have dealings with Muslims is a threat to Israel?…stupse!!
If this isn’t lies and deceit here, I don’t know what is!!
WILL THE REAL ‘KORAN’ PLEASE STAND?!
What the Western media and political leaders et al, don’t understand, because they are *Ignorant* truly lacking knowledge of the FACT, that the PLO/PA, HAMAS, HEZBOLLAH, IRAN, SYRIA, et al, are deeply rooted in, and are DRIVEN by, their ISLAMIST ideology, that is stated, over and over AGAIN, in the *KORAN* in Surah 5:51, 9:123, 8:12; 9;5, 47:4, 41:4, Depending upon the translator, “UNBELIEVERS” is synonymous with “INFIDELS” and either term refers to Christians and/or Jews, as is obvious from many references in Koran (e.g., Surah 59: 2, 11; 61:5; 98:1,6; 2: 193).
“Believers, take NEITHER Jew nor Christian for our friends. Fight the unbelievers. Chop OFF their HEADS and CHOP OFF their fingertips. Fight and SLAY those who don’t convert wherever you find them…ambush them…”
“Those who follow Mohammad are RUTHLESS to the unbelievers. When you meet the UNBELIEVERS, CHOP of their HEADS. Truly, god loves those who fight. Fight THEM UNTIL Islam REIGNS supreme [throughout the world].”
Not only are these frightening, DEADLY, and dangerous pronouncements, but ALLAH also threatens with death, the Muslim who does NOT make WAR on the unbeliever.
Hear Allah and the Koran again, by which ALL Muslims are commanded to adhear to:
“And the JEWS…and the Christians….may Allah DESTROY them…FIGHT the infidels ALL TOGETHER…If you do not go forth, He will chastise you wiyh a painful chastisement and bring in your place a people other than you…” emphasis added.
Here is a book, the Koran, that IS the very foundation upon which HAMAS et al base their entire DESTRUCTIVE agenda towards Israel FIRST, then the rest of the Western world, that teaches HATE and TORTURE and KILLING?! As a matter of FACT, more than 60% of the text is devoted to polemics AGAINST Jewish and Christian unbelievers, and infidels and JUSTIFICATION for oppressing them and MURDERING them.
For an insider’s description of Muslim behaviour in this domain, one should attend lectures or read the writings of such former Muslims & Arabs as Walid Shoebat, Irshad Manji (The Trouble with Islam) and Brigitte Gabriel (The Threat of Islam to western Civilization, and her website http://www.americancongressfortruth.org). Also, visit the website, http://www.noniedarwish.com, where Ms. Darwish discusses her being raised for *Jihad*. She describes the inner workings of Islam’s militant entities and the experiences of her earlier years with these organizations. She lectures and writes in order to warn Americans of Muslim plans and strategies.
From where did modern-day Muslim murderers learn their barbaric behaviors? Why are so many non-Muslims being tortured? Why are Muslims beheading non-Muslims? Besides setting the tone through the written word (Koran) Mohammed actually set the example where, on one afternoon, he had 50 leaders BEHEADED one-by-one as their distraught families were FORCED to watch.
Torture, dismemberment, and murder, these are ALL acceptable tools of normative Islam in EVERY region of the world. The Tabilan hung the infidels from construction cranes, decapitations (Iraq), gassing and restruction of entire towns (Syria), and wiring their CHILDREN with BOMBS (Israel). Commuter trains, buses, schools, hotels. This is a traditionally “legitimate expression of their religion. Islam nurtures the expression of raw EVIL.
Are these the passages that contain the principles of interfaith harmony that, we are told, are found in the Koran? Are these the principles of a beautiful and peace-loving people that the world posits? How could anyone read a book that TEACHES such disguisting, reprehensible, and perverted principles, TO CHILDREN, yes, these are the diabolical, HATE filled and fueled principles TAUGHT to ALL Muslim children in Palestine, Saudi Arabia, Syria, et all Muslim natiions around the world.
Even where they are welcomed as immigrants, in England, throughout Europe, and in America, their *Imams* exhort the congregants to DESTROY the very country that is hosting them, all of this is well documented, and video taped. Impressionable Muslim youngsters are exhorted constantly to take up arms AGAINST infidels. Muslims are exposed from their early youth, to virulent, vitriolic, inciting HATE sermons, bidding them to “take over the godless society” i.e., England, European countries, America, and what ever other country they reside in. The constant HATE-FILLED sermons, school texts, and lesons DEMAND that Muslims MURDER all nonbelievers who do NOT convert to Ismam. Exposed to such constant venomous HATED, these children (and adults) “know” whom they must hate and murder.
Indded, instead of enjoying age-appropriate games and activities, hundreds of pree-teen Arab/Muslim children have been involved in ACTS of TERRORISM and have been arrested by Israeli forces during the four years ending December 2004. Tragically, these revolting and horrendous tactics enjoy the broad public approval amingst ordinary “Palestinian-Arabs. These “beautiful” teachings of the “holy” Koran! They are not ashamed at ALL; these are their teachings in American schools, too. How ‘beautiful’ is it to say “In the name of my god, I will BLOW myself up together with a bus filled with little Jewish children and their parents”?!
In addition, for their killings of Jews and Christians, the MURDERERS are magically transformed into martyrs who are promised heavenly benefits!!!
Using television and religious ruling known as *fatwa*, one of the most influential clerics in Sunni Islam, speaks often of the imminent Muslim conquest of Christendom. (see Sheikh Al-qaradhawi’s website: http://www.islamonline.net.
The Imam for ‘our Saudi friends’ posted the following onn his website:
“We will control the Christian countries and introduce Islam in it. Yes, the Christians who carve crosses on the brests of the Muslims in Kosovo – and before them in Bosnia, and before them in many places in the world – will yet pay us the Jiziya in humilation OR they will convert to Islam…”
Another statement of his:
“The Muslims conquered Persia..Byzantium…The Muslims attacked India and Allah conquered it for us, until they reached the borders of China. The muslims conquered Constantinople…and in the future a mighty king will arise for the Muslims…and the Christian countries WILL BE CONQUERED.”
Al-’Arifi is the imam at the mosque of King Fahd Defense Academy. For more quotations from official Muslim spokesman. Visit http://www.zoa.org or http://www.memri.org.
Remember, we are being told, the Palestinian Authority is seeking peace now. And so, with the approval of their leaders, radio broadcast and live television sermons have NEVER stopped broadcasting such statements:
“O Allah…defeat the infedels and help us triumph over them…KILL them ALL and leave none ALIVE”
“Allah is stronger than the United States, Britain, and Israel…America will drown in our seas. It will face DEATH in our skies and land. America and all tyrants will drown in their blood in our land.”
On another occasion:
“The day will come and we SHALL RULE America. The day will come and we SHALL RULL Britain.”
Refering to America and England, a prayer was offered on PA television by a PA-appointed cleric. It called for the EXTERMINATION of EVERY single Brit and American.
Any wonder that the terrorist minded ‘thugs’ with their Islamists agenda of HATE for Jews, attempted what they did, disguised as peaceful, ‘humanitarian’ passengers, and used METAL bars and what ever they could find, or make, to KILL the IDF forces, and the world has bought into this LIE, one Israeli soldier actually had his stomach CUT across horizontally, with his bowels hanging out and thrown into the sea.
And these *LEFTIST* fools here on BU, ascribing to such blinded rhetoric, as fed to the world, through an equally ignorant and blinded media!!!
“Break up their unity…Allah, KILL them to the LAST ONE and don’t even leave ONE.”
There’s some breaking news today about a flotilla of US war ships, and one Israeli Nuclear warship, passing through the Suez canal presumably on their way to intercept Iranian vessels that have expressed an intent to deliver non military aid to the embattled embargoed palestinians. It is a situation fraught with uncertainty but with a possibility of leading to a an end times scenario straight out of The BU triumvirate scare tactics playbook.
An article on the development is here:
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article25785.htm
Would love to hear Zoe, GP and Dictionary’s take on this development.
Mr Check it Out Sir
I dont engage in any scare tactics . I try to interpret the OT Scriptures concerning Israel and the eschaton. I try to share my findings about prophesy. If tha scares any one that is really not my problem.
I dont have any opinion on your report. That has nothing to do with me. Leave GP out of this OK? Thanks
EXTREME MUSLIM “CONTRIBUTIONS” TO THE WORLD: From A to Y.
Of course, all of this is just Islamophobia, no real threat from the world of Islamists! Really!?
Azerbajan, Ghana, India, Indonsia, Israel, Sudan, and Xinjiang; what do these these countries have in common?
These are only six of the many countries where NON-MUSLIMS are being murdered frequently. In almost EVERY REGION where Muslims live together in a concentrated fashion as a significant minority, there you will find “hot spots” of the world ; mass uprooting of people and murders and wars. What follows is a partial list of the countries where BLOOD is shed and where it is not safe for Christians, Jews, other non-Muslims, or even Muslims with differing viewpoints:
AFGHANISTAN – What more must be added?
ALBANIA – Attempting to enlarge its borders at Christian Macedonia’s expense.
ALGERIA – Muslims overthrew the secular state through violence more than 100,000 have already been killed in this ‘civil’ war.
AZERBAIJAN – Muslims fighting with Armenian Christians.
BOSNIA, KOSOVO, and HERZEGOVINA – Here the media referred Serbs, Croatians, and Bosnians, rarely were any of the combatants identifies as MUSLIM! Why not?
CHAD – One of the world’s most violent “hot spots.”
CHECHNYA – Muslims fightng Russia.
CYPRUS – Muslim Turks fighting Orthodox Greeks.
EGYPT – Smuggling weaponary and explosives into Gaza to murder Jews; other victims of domestic Muslim violence are the Christian Copts.
ETHIOPIA – Orthodox Amharas are fighting to gain control of Abkhazia from this Christian nation.
GHANA – Ask any Hindu for more information.
INDONESIA – Muslims invaded and conquered western New Guinea, Christian East Timor, and are now attempting to kill the Christians in the Celebes. And what about the Bali disco bombing?
IRAN – Besides the continuous violence and protracted war with Iraq, and their exporting of terrorist worldwide, they are now becoming a nuclear threat to the world.
IRAQ – No comment is required.
IVORY COAST – Northern “rebels” murdering non-Muslims of the north have resumed the mudering of the French, too, with France trying to protect the non-Muslim population.
JORDAN – In the period 1948-67, during their OCCUPATION of the West Bank, Jordan forced out thousands of Jews in an attempt to create Muslim-only cities. In 1972, Jordan killed 10,000 PLO thugs and deported the survivors.
KENYA – Hosts an al Qaeda base; Muslims have been slaughtering Christians since 1956 and most intensely for the past 20 years.
LEBANON – Civil war with 100,000 Christians murdered, 1, 300,000 forced deportations; including incursions into Israel.
MACEDONIA – See Albania
MALAYSIA – Here, Muslims are even murdering secualr Muslims,.
NIGERIA – Northern Muslims are massacring innocent Christians. Remember those horrifying pictures of the suffering Biafrans? Muslims were responsible for ALL the Biafran deaths, and Biafra and Biafrans NO longer exist.
PAKESTIAN – Lots of internal oppression. Orginally formed as a homeland for the Muslims of India in order to isolate them and, thus protect the non-Muslim citizens of India; incursions into neighboring India continues and nearly 3,000,000 people have been killed already.
PHILIPPINES – Here, the Muslim murderers of the South are called “rebels” by the media, and NEVER identified by their mission or religious affiliation!
SAUDI ARABIA – Consider her continual involvement with terrorists; it is NO coindence that 15 of the 19 September 11th hijacking murderers were Saudi nationals.
SOMALIA – For years, Muslims have been killing Christians and animists in the south.
SUDAN – Muslims seized power in 1989 and have, since that time murdered 2,000,000 Black Africans, sold 4 million others into slavery, and uprooted & displaced another 1 MILLION.
SYRIA – Training and supporting terrorists for engagement throughout the world; invaded Lebanon & now its occupier; government massacres of its own citizens, recently providing insurgents to massacre Americans in Iraq.
TAJIKISTAN – Islamic insurgents trying to oust the existing pro-Soviet government.
TANZANIA – Muslims fighting Christians.
TURKMENISTAN – Terror directed against Russians.
UIGHUIR – Large Muslim minority rebelling against the Chinese.
UZBEKISTAN – Terror directed against the Russians.
XINJIANG – Muslims rebelling against the Chinese.
YEMEN – Remember just the bombing of the USS Cole and the protracted war with Egypt, providing insurgents to fight in Iraq.
These are only some of the countries where there has been unrest, “civil war’, terrorism, and/or chronic and relentless murders of non-Muslims and, oftentimes. moderates and secular Muslims. Certainly, this occurs where Muslims rule the country. But even in countries where Muslims are living in a concentrated fashion as a significant minority, it appears that the cruelty and massacres and war are rampant.
I did not want to belabor the point by listing so many countries, but as an unequivocal declaration needs to be made. It should be noted that there ARE STILL sixty (60) other countries whose citizenry have also suffered tremendously at the hands of Muslims, but these acts of carnage, bombings and massacres, have been sporadic, and thus not included in this list which consist of “hot spots” where there are frequent massacres at the hands of Muslims.
As I’ve already posted, Muslims murdered MILLIONS and MILLIONS of non-Muslims just over the last two decades of the 20th Century. Already, more than 60 regions and/or countries are under full control of Muslims and, in 40 of these countries, control WAS ACHIEVED through VIOLENCE and WARS. For the relatively short period since 9/11, there have been more than 2400 terrorist attacks perpetrated by Muslims ALL around the world, and OUTSIDE Israel. They are utilizing VIOLENCE and war to achieve their objective throughout the world, and in this regard, the Muslims of the Philippines or India are NO different from Muslims in the Israeli region of the world. It is a FACT, that Muslims are responsible for most of the HATE-DRIVEN violence in the world, and they ALL justify murder in the name of their religion; in their quest for control of more territory.
This is NO joke, nor is it written as hate toward Muslims, rather, it is to highlight the FACT, of the UTTER HATRED that Muslims hold against others, especially Jews and Christians, AND, Muslims who do not toe-the-line, will also be Murdered.
The man has a point which we continue to ignore it at our peril. The crusade of Islam to take over the world and convert it, by force if necessary, is real, though the moderates deny it.
That is something separate, however, and cannot be conflated with the Palestinian/Israeli conflict. It does not mean that Israel should be given carte blanche to treat the Palestinians like vermin. Their oppression of the Palestinians cannot be justified under any pretext.
@ Zoe the nomad…
What about the millions who died in the Crusades?…were they killed by Muslims?…I think by Christians!!
What about the millions of your African brothers killed or thrown overboard during the trip across the Atlantic during slavery? Were the boat owners Muslims?
What about those who killed thousands in the US south, fighting for equality? Were they Muslims, hell I think they were Christians!!
Were the millions of red Indians, the true people of America killed by Muslims…I think they were Christians!!
The religious nomad rants..’This is NO joke, nor is it written as hate toward Muslims, rather, it is to highlight the FACT, of the UTTER HATRED that Muslims hold against others, especially Jews and Christians, AND, Muslims who do not toe-the-line, will also be Murdered.’
Utter nonsense and pure BS/BE!!
If someone had posted this shite about how Jews view Arabs(and they hate Arabs just as much) you and Dictionary would be emailing WordPress by now.
You Zoe, need to read the link provided by check it out as it clearly describes the MO of you and Dictionary perfectly.
@Not Saved
It did not take long for the ease in the blockade to go South. Note the tenor of the UK Guardian article which is a leading UK daily. It was NOT written by BU
David,
It would seem perhaps that the “easing”, like the internal inquiry, was just PR to make everyone go away.
Rampant Double Standards at the UN and the International Court of Justice in The Hague, AGAINST ISRAEL!
Yes, the world does apply a ‘double standard’ to violence. The world acts, and reacts, more rationally when they, themselves, are confronted by Muslim threats to life, BUT, they apply a completely different set of standars when Israel is confronted by the very same perils.
The fact is that in Juky 2004, the International Court of Justice in The Hague, DID officially rule that Israel has NO RIGHT to self-defense, and that Jews CANNOT eliminate their warring enemies, nor can Israel build a BARRIER wall to prevent these murdering monsters from sneaking into Israel to do their evil terrorism.
Article 51 of the UN Charter stats that every sovereign country HAS a right of SELF-DEFENSE – evidently, this provision holds true for every state, EXCEPT ISRAEL! The Court stated that a ‘barrier’ between terrorist-soldiers and their Jewish targets is illegal. It is a complete INVERSION of justice, when a world body condemns a NON-VIOLENT response to TERROR, rather than condemning the CAUSE – Islam and its physical manifestation known as Islamic terrorism.
NOTE CAREFULLY:
For the 4 years beginning September 2000, but before most of the barrier WAS ERRECTED, Israel had suffered a staggering *11,356* casualties. In early November 2004, the University of Haifa’s Center for National Securities Studies released the results of a research study reporting that more than ONE out of every FIVE Israels had lost a love one in the Palestinian terror war , just during the four years beginning September 2000.
Now, for the 5 years ending July 2005, there were *25,356* TERROR ATTACKS committed by Muslims terrorist-soldiers – this IS NOT a typing error and the number printed is correct *25,375* ATTACKS. Israel DID NOT respond with any military force, but Israel did eventually respond, to a brutal terrorist-war in an unusual manner. Instead of escalating the fighting, Israel built a BARRIER, to prevent these terrorist from the PLO area, coming into their country, and viciously killing its citizens.
Moreover, in those areas where long stretches of the fence have been completed (e.g., in northern Israel) terrorist infiltrations have been virtually ELIMINATED. In other areas in the partially completed barrier has played a crucial in the 75% decline in SUICIDE-homicide attacks since the first half of 2004. It is not that these terrorist-soldiers haven’t tried to murder Jews; it’s just that they are being intercepted and apprehended on a DAILY basis as a RESULT of the BARRIER. In the area where construction of the barrier has not yet begun, the southern part of the West Bank, for example, NO DECREASE in the number of TERRORIST ATTACKS had been noted.
Any sane, rational person would realize that the OBSTACLE to peace is NOT THE BARRIER; but Arabs Muslims who have YET to abandon their TERROR tactics, whose openly stated goal, IS the DESTRUCTION of the entire State of Israel, period.
The Arabs complain that because of the barrier, their children are inconvenienced daily; their children have to take detours and must pass through check-points. How sad it is that some Arab children are somtimes inconvenienced – especially when so many Jewish children WILL NEVER get to school, because they were BLOWN to pieces by Palestinian Authority TERRORIST, murderes, who had passed into Israel where there WAS NO BARRIER!
The construction of a security barrier in order to SAVE LIVES is (according to international law, the Geneva Convention) a right and an obligation of every sovereign state. Had the PA acted to STOP Muslim/Arab terror against Israel, as they promised so many times already, there would be NO NEED for an anti-terror barrier in the first place. The obstacle to peace is NOT THE FENCE, but the KORAN and Arab and Muslim leaders who preach GENOCIDE.
The security barrier has already proven itself an essential deterrent by virtually putting a halt to murderous incursions. Yet, this KANGAROO court in the Hague, ruled that the Israeli-constructed barrier had to be dismantled, because it limits Arab “freedom of movement.” to bomb Jews.
And, then predictably, just like clockwork, on the FIRST day of business after the rendering of this preverted and shameful judgment, by the kangaroo court, along comes the UN to endorse this “sage” court decision. Unabased, ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTY, HATE FILLED nations voted to support the violent attacks against Israel.
That the UN should condemn a non-violent response to TERROR, rather than censure the TERRORIST MURDERERS and their ‘quasi’ governments; the entire scenario is not to be believed. But thank God for the likes of Palau, Micronesia, and the Marshall Islands; they were three of the only five countries in the world that had the courage to face up to the entire UN and vote rationally and without prejudice. Only five countries in this entire planet? Who had the fortitude and courage to stand up against a perveted and polluted world, and publicly identify the world-wide Muslim danger.
The Court and the UN ruled that Israel many not build a security barrier. Let us look at some other countries who had ERRECTED similar security barrier’s to better understand the nature of a security fence. I’d like for you to see the actual pictures of these various fences in other countries, that have NOT being condemned by the Court or the UN.
# 1, America had to errect a large, high barrier to try and stop millions of Mexicans from illegaly sneaking into the US, even though Mexicans do NOT bomb Americans, and even though American lives were never in any real danger.
# 2, A large fence was errected between North and South Korea, designed to prevent hostile movement across the border.
# 3, A large barrier was errected in Nothern Ireland and is intended to keep Catholics and Protestants from murdering each other.
# 4, A long fence was errcted to keep Pakistani Muslims from invading India.
# 5, A security fence that Spain erected in Ceuta, in order to prevent illegal workers from entering the country, and, mind you, these workers are peaceful and never carry bombs.
Saudi Arabia has a fence on its border with Yemen; Botswana has a fence with Zimbabwe, and Morocco has a fence on its borders with Western Sahara. A fence also separates Kyrgyzstan from Uzbekistan, India from Bangladesh, and Thailand from Malaysia, as do a number of other countries.
Security fences/barrier’s are common throughout the world, and in this regard, Israel is like many other countries in the world – EXCEPT, that ONLY Israel has been condemned by the UN for its security barrier
Meanwhile, on another front, the countries of the world, press ahead for a TERRORIST state to be created WITHIN the heart of Israel. The countriies of the world, interfere CONSTANTLY with Israeli sovereignty. Israel has been condemned nearly 1000 times by the UN General Assembly and Security Council, the bulk of this body’s HATEFUL agenda since 1949.
It is a FACT, not only does the UN constantly vilify and demonize and libel Isral with obsessive-like malice, and not only does the UN legitimize and encourage the Palestinian Authority “armed struggle” against the Jews of Israel, BUT, the UN also intentionally provides cover for the Muslim snipers, as well as ambulances and vehicles (with UN markings) for transporting bombs and bombers to murder Jews; as we have already seen, UNRWA employees are frequently arrested by Israel for terrorist activities. And, finally, documents indicate that the UN has been directly and knowingly funding terror organizations. The UN also funds elementary schools with names such as “Martyrs of the Al -Aqsa Intifada.”
Yet, Israel is made out by the world media, as the aggressor, always wrong in its defense of its sovereignty, as a nation state.
Facts are truly stubborn things, and ONLY the stubbornly IGNORANT, and wilfully blinded have chosen NOT to recognize the FACTS.
‘To say of what IS, that it IS, or, of what is NOT, that it is NOT, is TRUE”
(Aristotle, Metaphysics, 1077b 26)
Democracy Zoe?
Israel 7.1 million for
The UN 7.1 billion against
To me you are outvoted 1,000,000 to 1.
Are you a democrat now?
@Straight talk: “To me you are outvoted 1,000,000 to 1.
Only off by three orders of magnitude (base 10).
That’s OK. Einstein was (allegedly) bad at the maths as well.
Your fundamental points are still sound….
(This is meant as good humour; and to point out that if we can’t fight amongst ourselves, we don’t have a hope of fighting against others.)
I take your point Chris but are you discounting the internal >10% liberal opposition on Israel. thus my math is justified.
Aren’t semantics as eschatology, so wonderfully pliable. LOL
@ST: “thus my math is justified.
Incorrect. You’re still off by appropriately 3 orders of magnitude (read: ~100,000%).
@ST: “Aren’t semantics as eschatology, so wonderfully pliable. LOL
This is why I prefer mathematics; they’re either right, or wrong; and provably so…. (LOL.)
7100000 for versus
7100000000 against
Democracy Rules
OK Chris.
It still says the Israeli govt are out of 1:1000 out of synch with world opinion.
Sorry for the miscalc but the global democratic vote is still decisively against the Zionists
ISRAEL:
Some people are convinced that the root cause of ongoing violence in the Miidle East is the mere presence of Israel. These people claim that if it were not for Israel, peace would prevail there and even world wide terror would cease. Yet, a cursory review of history reveals the FACT that VIOLENCE and WAR are endemic to Arab society and history. Israel WAS NOT involved in the two earlier attempts by Muslims to CONQUER the world ( in the year 732 and in 1529). In the past hundred years, almost EVERY Arab country has been involved in intra-Muslim or intra-Arab violence of great proportions. Israel WAS NOT involved in the deaths of MILLIONS who were killed in the Iran-Iraw war in the 1980s. Nor was Israel involved while Muslims were killing more than TWO MILLION Black Christians and animists in Sudan. The thousands whom Assad of Syria slaughtered in Hama had no connection to Israel. Nor did Egypt invade Yemen and gas its people because of Israel. Saddam did not torture, rape, and murder TWO MILLION of his own poeople because of Israel. Nor did he invade Kuwait to punish Israel. It was not because of Israel that the Lebanese suffered a terrible civil war where thousands upon thousands were killied. But, this IS Islam and Muslims for you!
Siding with the Truth
Speech by Susan Michael to the 9th Annual Solidarity Event at the Embassy of Israel, Washington DC.
May 7th, 2010
“A worldwide campaign to delegitimize the Jewish State is sounding in the halls of governments, global institutions, universities and in streets around the world. This mounting campaign against Istael IS unprecedented and it is undermining her ability to deal with other serious threats she faces. The goal of this campaign is not only to tie Israel’s hands, but actually to bring about the END of the Jewish state.”
A Campaign od Delegitimization
“We just ended the Sixth Annual Israeli Apartheid Week that took place on college campuses in over 40 cities around the world. They are calling Israel an ‘apartheid state’; a country in which the Arab minority IS allowed to VOTE, ATTEND UNIVERSITIES next to Jewish students, SERVE in the IDF, SERVE AS ambassadors, as SUPREME COURT judges, and even REPRESENT the nation as Miss Israel. Former President, Jimmy Carter even turned this accusation into a bestselling book. To us this IS LUDICROUS. But do not be fooled. This is a very dangerous global campaign, because it implies that if Israel is a nation like apartheid Sounth Africa, then she can be sanctioned and dismanted in the same way as the apartheid regime of South Africa.”
“Hitler understood the role propaganda played in preparing the way for the EXTERMINATION of the Jewish people. The steps were first DISCRIMINATION, second DELEGITIMIZATION and lastly, EXTERMINATION. We need to understand the role of the global DISINFORMATION and propaganda campaing taking place against Israel today and take it seriously.”
“…She is not only the obstacle to Palestinian statehood, but to world peace. But I want to know this: while orchastrated demonstrations were held around the world against Israel when she moved into Gaza to end ROCKET ATTACKS, and while global institutions such as the UN are accusing her of war crimes, and while our academics and mainline churches are calling for divestment – where are the demonstrations AGAINST the Iranian government for the INCITEMENT to GENOCIDE, or for threatening another member-state in the United Natiins, or for beating and imprisoning INNOCENT citizens for protesting against rigged elections?”
“Where are the demonstrations AGAINST Hamas who fired 8,000 rockets at innocent Israeli civilians, or for persecuting and murdering Christians in Gaza, or for kidnapping and holding Gilad Shalit for four years! Where are the demonstrations against the Palestinian Authority for GLORIFYING suicide bombers and brainwashing little children to WANT TO BECOME ONE?”
“The list goes on and on, and if I get started on Sudan, and Egypt and Saudi Arabia we will be here past dinner.”
“It is really madddening. And to think that while an almost-nuclear Iran is threatening to WIPE Israel off the map, the world asks Israel to commit to a nuclear free Middle East! Or get this one: Iran was just elected to a four-year seat on the UN Women’s Rights Commission. Iran DOES NOT RECOGNIZE the basic human RIGHTS OF WOMEN!” emphasis added.
We are witnessing throughout the world, in the halls of political leaders, at the UN, and in the streets, a total corruption and utter inversion of any sense of moral justice, and this relativism, that there IS NO right or wrong any more, is DEMONSTRATED, vehemently AGAINST Israel, in every area of the world.
Almighty God in His Word, says:
“Woe to those who call EVIL good and GOOD evil” (Isaiah 5:20) emphasis.
TERROR by Islamists IS merely a tactic.
Most people persist in thinking that the enemy is terror. In truth, TERROR is just a tactic of the REAL enemy, Islam, which seeks to dominate and subjugate the entire planet. Knowingly or not, the REALITY is that we are in a battle for our very existence – probalby the greatest WAR we have ever faced; unless we are willing to face this REALITY squarely, we might as well now turn over the keys to our homes and our country. Doing nothing (which is still a conscious decision) would be a tragedy, because the catastrophe will have been self-inflicted – a real tragedy because the destruction would really have been averted. If Muslim/Arab entities and countries believe that thay are at WAR with us, we should believe no less, and act appropriately.
How can Western poiliticians be so obtuse and continue to delude themselves into believing that a Muslim leader would EVER abandon the dictates of the “holy” KORAN and its religious teachings? Who is really ready to believe that a committed Muslim would violate as Islamic Principle of faith in order to embrace Christians or Jews? Muslims take the teachings of the KORAN very seriously and (as suicide bombers, for example) they are WILLING to give up their lives in order to obey its directives.
But, Muslim violence is not limited to the Mideast. During the year 2004, TWO HUNDRED official Saudi publications were examined (See Saudi Publications on Hate Ideology Fill American Mosque, http://www.freedomhouse.org June 2005). These were publications generated by the government of Saudi Arabia for distribution AMONGST newly arrived immigrant Muslins in America. These were publications with benign-sounding titles like : “Greetings from the [Saudi] Cultural Attache in Washington, D.D. YET, as but one example, this monograph provides the reader with detailed instructions on HOW TO HATE Christians and Jews, after positing that it is a religious obligation for Muslims to do so. The immigrant is REMINDED that those who advocate tolerance of NON-MUSLIMS are branded as infidels and deserving of DEATH. The Muslim immigrant is also being told that living in satanic America can ONLY be JUSTIFIED when the immigrant proselytizes infidels or acquires specialized education and training that can be later employed in *Jihad* action against Americans. YET, we constantly hear analysts and journalists REFER to the Saudis as our Muslim allies. Absurd, is it not?
In short, 90% of the examined Saudi publications were VILE and HATE-FILLED, designed to INCITE Muslims to commit acts of VIOLENCE against Americans. It should, therefore, come as NO surprise to the informed public that legislation is finally being proposed (Senate Bill 1171 and House Resolution 2037) indicting Saudi Arabia for her many years of deep involvement in TERROR on many levels including that of being the “epicenter” of global terror financing. The legislation calls for sanctions to be imposed upon Saudi Arabia for continued involvement with incitement and terror. The proposed legislation is based upon the Saudi Arabia Accountability Act of 2005.
At the UN, however, international efforts to write a global anti-terror treaty have been at an impasse since 1996. Is ‘terrorism’ a term that is that difficult to define, or is it, rather, that the nations have compelling reasons to RESIST condemning the real TERRORISTS?
Wake up, world, Islam is NOT a political problem that can be managed through discussion; NO, Islam is an implacable ENEMY, a radical EVIL that is the basis for the murdering of non-Muslims, and for attempts at destroying Western Civilization.
Islamists, treasure DEATH, they glorify DEATH, as they are deceitfully mislead to believe in glorious things in heaven, when they KILL Jews and Christians, and other infidels as well.
The problem isn’t Israel…true!!
The problem might very well be ReLIEgion…think about it!!
And after all this posting by Zoe the religious nomad, the question that he and Dictionary continues to evade, still stands….does this justify the collective punishment of a people?
What an IDIOT!
The preponderence of world opinion re Israel, which includes the majority on BU as well, now called democracy, is akin to Eight men from East Africa, who once said they were going to try climbing Mount Everest – and, ALL EIGHT WERE BLIND!!!
@Zoe
As stated already we have sympathizers on both sides of this issue. Both sides need to be tolerant and hold the invective; to what purpose does it serve? If we want to debate the merits and demerits of the issue this is what civilized and intelligent beings should be competent to do.
@ Zoe…
You see the idiot every morning you get up!!
Now, can you answer the question posed or do you have to use insults to hide the fact that you can’t or don’t have an answer. All these posts by you are just distractions.
@David (BU) I find it amazing that you ONLY NOW say something in this regard, and addressed to me, when for weeks, even months, all kinds of INSULTS, downright nasty INVECTIVE were hurled over and over again, at Dictionary, and to a lesser extent me, laced with ‘redherrings’ ‘strawmenized’ rhetoric, with NO substance whatsoever, vehemently displaying blatant Anti-Semitism, and utter disregard for much warranted credible truth, supporting FACTS, historic FACTS re Israel and their rabid enemies, Islamic Arabs, and these dissenters, strangers to TRUTH, constantly throwing distorting distractions, one after the other, with little or NO merit whatsoever, and you said NOTHING to them, and you now come and address me like I am the culprick?
I simply don’t have any interest whatsoever, in answering stupid questions, from ignorant posters, and when I say ‘ignorant’ I use this word advisedly, meaning ‘lacking KNOWLEDGE and UNDERSTANDING on one of, it not the most complex issues, that has been going on for thousands of years.
And, the last stupid question, is just ANOTHER distraction, that I will not dignify with any answer, as it is a ‘myopic’ fixation on people, who have persecuted and TORMENTED the Jews with TERRORISM, beginning HOURS after their declared Statehood in 1948, and HAS NEVER STOPPED.
Can that TERRORISM, from 1948, to this very day, to DESTROY and annihilate the Jews from their legitimate homeland, sanctioned and ratified by the then League of Nations, be JUSTIFIED!?
@Zoe
Don’t be amazed. BU’s tolerance level is now well known. By addressing you it is deliberate, as someone who has confessed to be a practising Christian BU will ALWAYS expect YOU to travel the high road. You may have the last word.
Stupse!!
Amazing that these so called Christians always want to play the victim.
Anyone can check Zoe the religious nomad’s posts and see that he is guilty of the same offence he now accuses others of…what a hypocrite!!
As soon as anyone disagrees they are stupid, ignorant etc. All derogatory comments to people who have a different opinion (of which everyone is entitled).
Zoe knows he cannot answer the question posed, in fact, the very attempt to answer the question puts him and every Christian of his ilk between a rock and a hard place..between morality and prophecy.
So in order to avoid this dilemma, here he comes with the usual distractions and side stepping.
What Christian what!!
@David, Yes, “BU’s tolerance level is well known.” Assuredly so, as it has tolerated, condoned, countenanced, without one word of rebuke for a long time, to a number of hate FILLED, cloddish, uncivilized, uncoth, vulgar posters, inciting ARSON, reference to ‘white trash’ and the most disguisting, unbred, terms, gutter-words, heaped on Dictionary, and you said NOT A WORD, and now you come here calling for ‘…civilized and intelligent being…’ to debate the merits and demerits, what a farce.’
Secondly, David, debat what? What debate are you talking about? A true debate, is when both sides present forensic argumentation, dialectic, with ‘attention’ to sound detail, coherent FACTS and evidence, as Dictionary and me have done, time and time again, only to be met by silly folly, one-line or short paragraph nonsense, with NO SUBSTANCE, tenor, NO essence, or meaning whatsoever, as there is NO nucleus, NO corpus, at ALL to the shallow diatribe offered by the haters of Israel and Jews.
Yes, everyone is entitled to their opinion, BUT, an opinion VOID, empty, of any cogent, intelligent import, couched in ‘redherrings’ soaked in ad hominem slander, and vicious LIES on the character of the person, as we have seen here on BU, IS NO DEBATE, and are therefore destitute of facts and historic truth and knowledge, and are ‘ignorant’ and need to be told so.
And, BTW, I take my example from the One, The Lord Jesus Christ, who said, when it WAS entirely appropriate to do SO, “Go tell that FOX…” (Luke. 13:22), Again, hear JESUS CHRIST, to those who needed to be told, “You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you will want to do..for he is a LIAR and the father of it” (John 8: 44a) And the most anointed Apostle of them all, who had occasion, and rightfully so, to say to those who needed to be told so:
“But if anyone is IGNORANT, let him be IGNORANT.” (1 Cor. 14:38) emphasis added.
David, you are in no postion to determine when I can, and must say, as a Christian the appropriate things, to those who need to be told so, as I take my lead from God’s Word, not you!
And, you want to see the height of UNCIVILISED behaviour, void of any MORALITY, as I quoted recently from the International Court at The Hague, when this kangeroo court, ruled unjustly SO, against Israel, who chose NOT to respond militarily to those Palestinian Terrorist, who HAD INFLICTED a staggering *11,356* casualties on Israel, and there were *25,375* TERRORIST attacks on Israel, and Israel errected a BARRIER wall, to prevent these Palestinian/Hamas, HATERS of Israel, from killing any more of their citizens,
and you and this ‘ignorant’ poster, who obviously support these Muslim TERRORIST, want to now invoke civilized and intelligent debate, and this ‘ignorant’ poster, talks about ‘justice’ and ‘morality’ IS *11,356* casualties inflicted on Israel by Palestinian TERRORIST , JUSTICE and MORALITY?
Was it JUSTICE and MORALITY when the Court at The Hague said NO to Israel in building a barrier to prevent MORE MURDERING of Jews by these TERRORIST.
Was it JUSTICE and MORALITY when the CORRUPT UN endorsed this perverted and shameful judgment of this “sage” court decision against Israel?
Think man, think?
Then why are you still here Zoe??
Go to Dictionary’s ‘civil’ blog and chat with the people you desire..or start your own blog, it takes 5 minutes.
Here you go again, just like Dictionary,accusing me now of supporting Terrorism because I have a different opinion to yours, and you call me ignorant?
Carry on you religious Nomad, keep regurgitating your one sided view of the issue because it suits your prophecy.
ISRAEL ain’t going no where; and I ain’t going no where, they have their God-given right to their ancient homeland, and have been miraculously, on numerous occasions, been rescured from their diabolical, Satanic driven, Islamic Jihadists/Terrorists, with actual testimony from many Arab Terrorist, in the past, Egyptians who said that Angels appeared from NO WHERE, when they were about to kill Israeli soldiers, in the 1967 attempt to wipe Israel off the map.
Further, while I soundly disagree with David’s most recent attitude/premise re this subject matter, and his obvious bias, I still think and feel, that he has enough objective fortitude to allow me the privilege of posting on BU, and, therefore, I AIN’T going nowhere, as I know there are quiet observers, who are intellectual honest enough, to recognize FACTS and TRUTH on this matter when coherently presented, as a few of us have done, and are greatful for the historic veracity, that has allowed them to form an entirely different perspective on Israel and the Middle East.
In fact one Syrian living here in B’dos told me after I gave him a few things to read, that he had no idea, that the Jews and Israel had gone through such HELL, over the centuries, and especially since 1948, when his own people, the Arabs had so relentessly attempted to DESTROY Israel.
When Almighty God said to Abraham:
“Those who curse you will be CURSED, and those who bless you will be blessed.” (Genesis. 27:29)
From that moment in time, until today, whoever has attempted to curse Abraham and his descendants, the Jews, have been cursed, and who ever has blessed them, be it, individual, family or nation, has been blessed, let God deal with those Jews who deserve His punishment, as He is no respector of persons.
Those who wish the Jews and their God-given homeland, Israel, harm will themselves suffer harm. Those who seek good for the Jews shall be favoured by God, this IS His Word, and He does NOT CHANGE!
Those who attempt – they can only attempt, but they wiil NOT succeed, because we know the end of the story – their efforts will be in vain. As a consequence, they will suffer exactly what they had intended for the Jews, confirmed over and over again, since 1948, to this day.
Almighty God proclaimed:
They (Jews) will dwell in the LAND in security and build houses and plant vineyards…when I EXECUTE JUDGMENT upon those who CONSPIRE against them.” (Ezekiel 28: 15) emphasis added.
Israel survives and WILL CONTINUE to survive the constant pressure from the West – including the racism of “ethnic cleansing” that is demonstrated by constant calls for deportation of Jews from parts of their land. And Israel will survive, regardless of the wicked, ever-present EVIL intentions of Muslim Murderers and their international supporters.
As the Lord of Hosts declared:
“I will plant them in their LAND, and they WILL NEVER again be uprooted from the Land I HAVE GIVEN THEM.” ( Amos 9:15) emphasis added.
In the past, we had seen how nations had designed the demise of Israel, and now we are witnessing others planning anew. We have also seen that the destiny of Israel, IS in the hands of Almighty God.
“Nations may devise a [nefarious] plan, BUT that will be ANNULED; they may threaten, but their threats WILL NEVER materialize because the Almighty is with us.” (Isaiah 8:10) emphasis added.
Thank God Almighty, that the fate of Israel, and the Jewish people, IS NOT decided in the ‘den of thieves” known as the UN.
When ever nations attempt to dismantle Israel and expose Jews to danger, at that point Almight God unleashes the forces of nature against Israel’s would-be-oppressors, against those who would jeopadarize the lives of Jews in Israel.
“Those who torment Israel will fall.” (Isaiah 54:15).
America who stood with Israel in the past, has in recent decades, being pushing Israel to give up more and more land to its sworn enemies.
Between October 1991 and October 2004, the American President and his administration applied increasing pressure to Israel, to compromise more and more land for so-called peace, and what followed on each of the events, forcing Israel to concede more land to the Palestinians, was major ‘natural’ disasters that struck America between the exact same time period, October 1991 to October 2004, and they INCLUDED 10 of the 11 largest events and 10 of the top 11 FEMA events in U.S. History.
God warned explicitely, NOT to divide or partition His Land, that He gave to the Jews. Hear HIM!
“I will EXECUTE judgment upon them for what they did to My people…partitioning My LAND.” (Joel 4:2) emphasis added.
The British Empire paid a terrible price for ‘dividing’ God’s Land, that He gave to the Jews. Britain ‘carved’ out between 75 and 80 percent of the Mandated Land, approved by the League of Nations, and ‘created’ the state of Transjordan, now Jordan, for Palestinans. It was only a matter of time before the Empire started to crumble. America is doing the same nonsense, to their ultimate PERIL! Watch and see!
@Zoe
Carry on smartly but remember, we are all from this world.
The Palestinian Ministry of Health published (December 15, 2009) on the number of patients who left Gaza for treatment during the period August-November 2009, according to their figures, 3, 532 patients were sent for medical treatment – 1,067 to hospitals in Jerusalem, 588 to hospitals elsewhere in Israel, 543 to hospitals in Egypt, 214 to hospitals in the West Bank, and 536 in hospitals in Gaza.
In an interview with the French newspaper ‘Le Monde’ minister of the national economy for the Palestinian Authority, offered this description:
“The shelves of the stores in (Gaza) are FULL, you can find anything if you can pay the price. The cost of real estate has tripled as a result of the tunnel economy.”
Similar stories could be found elsewhere in reports of Western newsmen, who actually visited Gaza. Thus, on June 3, 2010 Janine Zacharia of the Washington Post, wrote: “If you walked down Gaza’s main thoroughfare – Salah al-Din Street, grocery stores are stocked wall-to-wall with everything from fresh Israeli Yogurt and hummus to Coco puffs smuggled in from Egypt. Phamarcies look as well supplied as a typical Rite Aid in the United States. The Palestinian Ma’an News Agency also stated on Feburary 19, 2010 that ‘Gaza markets are saturated with goods.”
Health: “10, 544 patients and their companions left Gaza in 2009 for medical treatment in Israel, 4, 883 tons of medical equipment and medicin entered Gaza.”
Yet, the negative information coming from so-called respected International agencies, Amnesty International et al, paint a picture of suffering and siege by the Israeli government, completely contrary to the TRUTH, as told by the very Palestinian authorities itself, and independant news people who have visited Gaza this very year, 2010, reporting that what is been presented by many international organizations, is SIMPLY NOT TRUE.
All of the statistical, accurate information re what Israel has being doing for Gaza, Electricity, Water supplies, and numerous other necessary daily requirments for Gaza, including medical treatment for THOUSANDS of Arabs from Gaza, are ALL documented, by the very Palestinian authorities. Yet, this LIE being spewed forth from other corruped sources, and fed to the international media, is believed to be true.
I simply cannot list all of the information that IS there, both the negative LIES, versus the TRUTH, the people in Gaza, are NOT under seige by the blockade, it is a disguisting LIE!!!
@ David, Your are a man I respect, though at times your judgment and perspective can be clouded, I still believe that one day, soon, you’ll come around to seeing the truth, which is the ultimate certitude.
Thanks David.
Zoe gave us the following quote from Bassem Khoury, former minister in the Palestinian Authority:
“The shelves of the stores in (Gaza) are FULL, you can find anything if you can pay the price. The cost of real estate has tripled as a result of the tunnel economy.”
Zoe, do you know he was referring to smuggled goods? or are you just dishonest.
Now that is some hypocrisy, to tell us Gaza is not under siege because the people of Gaza are able to smuggle goods.
Mr Khoury was actually trying to make the point that the blockade and the consequent smuggling was actually strengthening Hamas. Here is the full quote:
“The shelves of the stores are full, and you can find anything you want if you can pay the price. The cost of real estate has tripled as a result of the tunnel economy. Hamas is benefiting from the situation, since the Palestinian Authority in Ramallah is continuing to pay the salaries of civil servants in Gaza and this is half of our budget. Then these employees buy goods that come in by way of the tunnels, on which Hamas gets paid a tax”
Now with that dishonest bit of quote mining, absent the full quote, you might be forgiven for thinking that Mr Khoury had supported the “blockade”.
Certainly that was the dishonest intention of those who would quote out of context.
But here are a few other quotes of Minister Khoury that may make his position more clear:
“What is happening in Gaza is a crime and the new government must ensure that the dynamics change fast. We must work quickly at improving the flow of commodities into Gaza.”
“The Gaza Strip, which lives under a deadly siege. It is economically in shambles. Over 3,500 industrial establishments are closed with very little potential for recovery under the current situation. This is a maximum security prison. ”
“The siege over Gaza is both a crime and a shame……………. Our [Value Added Tax] VAT revenues, our tax revenues from Gaza as a [Palestinian Authority] PA, dropped by more than 95 percent.”
No wonder the Guardian reported back in January:
“The health of 1.4 million people is being put at risk by the ongoing Israeli and Egyptian blockade of Gaza, a report by more than 80 humanitarian organisations warned today”
Now who is the liar?
God (Interlude) from album The Love Below by
Andre 3000, Outkast.
God
Come in God
God come in God
Damn you’re a girl
well i guess the reason why i’m talking to you tonight is
cause i’ve been doing alot of thinking and
i mean i consider myself a pretty cool guy
and i’ve never cheated on any of my girlfriends
what?
you say you, you say you’ve found somebody
is she cute?
so when do i get to meet her?
aww
God you’re the greatest
well i guess i’ll talk to you later
amen
oh i’m sorry, i’m sorry
alady
@ Not Saved, “Do you know he (Khoury) was referring to SMUGGLED goods? Or are you just dishonest.”
“Now that is some hyprocrisy, to tell us Gaza is not under seige because the people in Gaza are able to SMUGGLE goods.”
NS, you quoted Khoury in full, and in your devious way, used the words, “SMUGGLING” “SMUGGLED” and “SMUGGLE” three times, yet, Khoury never once used any of these words, in describing the economic activity derived through these tunnels. he said:
“The shelves of the stores are FULL, and you can get ANYTHING you want if you can pay the price. The cost of real estate has tripled as a RESULT of the TUNNEL ECONOMY.”
Note carefully, that Khoury said ‘…of the TUNNEL ECONOMY.” And this is correct, as it is NOt “smuggling” as you NS, would like to impose for you own crafty ends, to completely misrepresent the truth.
Smuggling Tunnels OR Import Routes from Egypt?
“Smuggling is NOT the correct word to describe the network of tunnels along Gaza’s border with Egypt. Wheras “SMUGGLING” connotes illegal activity carried out clandestinely, the Palestinian tunnel network is OUT IN THE OPEN and extends the whole length of the border.”
“The Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center (ITIC) published an abstract in may 2009 of an investigative article that appeared on tht Al Arabiya network which represents the method of OPERATION of the tunnels on the Gaza-Egypt border. The following are the main points as describes on the ITIC website:”
“The reporter for the Al Arabiya network, Waal Issam, toured Egyptian Rafah, in the market where goods sent to Gaza through the tunnels are sold. The report said that the market is the major source of the fuel supply to Gaza. Some *10,000* people work in the :tunnel industry” on a daily basis.”
Clearly, this ‘tunnel’ business, which is not illegal, apart from when Hamas uses the tunnels to then, illegally, “Smuggle” in items barred from entering Gaza via Israel to enforce their military agenda, to torment and DESTROY Israel and its people.
The Economic Situation in Gaza: Facts and Figures.
“Is the Israeli and Egyptian blockade of Gaza causing consequences as dire as those described by the human rights organizations? U.S. Sectary of State Hillary Clinton said in a testimony before Congress on April 22, 2009, that the situation in Gaza is different from how it is been described. In response to a question by Congressman Keith Ellison (D.Minn), Clinton said: “Congressman, the crossings are no longer completely closed. There are many items that are being transported through the crossings…We have looked at the lists and a lot of what has been said was not permitted to cross [into Gaza} is just NOT ACCURATE.”
“A survey by Israel’s Coordinator of Government Activities in the Territiroes presents the scope of connection between Israel and Gaza in 2009.”
* Health: 10, 544 patients and their companions left Gaza for medical treatment in Israel. 4,883 tons of medical equipment and medicines entered Gaza that year in coordination with the Palestinian Authority and international agencies. Israel helped the Palestinian Authority stem the spread of avian )bird) flu in Gaza, 44, 500 doses of vaccine were sent to Gaza through the World Health Organization, and three patients left Gaza for medical care in Israel. In addition, two elevators were transfered to hospitals in Gaza, as well as mammogram equipment for breast cancer detection and a computerized CT system.”
* Electricity: Israel continued to supply electricity to Gaza from its power plant in Ashkelon. In addition, 41 truckloads of equipment were transfered for the maintenance of the electricity in Gaza. Between April and October 2009, Siemens carried out maintenance work on the power system in Gaza, to which more than 100 million liters of diesel fuel were delivered for its operation.”
* Communications: “45 truckloads of communication equipment were sent to Gaza at the request of the Palestinian Authority.”
*Water and sewage: “95 truckloads of equipment for water and sewage systems, as well as 3,720 tons of chloride for water purification, were transfered during 2009. Israel assisted the North Gaza Wastewater Treatment Plant Project by transferring 48 truckloads of equipment for the project.”
*The Private Sector: “77 percent of the contents of trucks sent into Gaza in 2009 were for the private sector. 257 Palestinian businessmen exited Gaza to Israel, the West Bank, and abroad. 10, 871 head of cattle were transfered to Gaza, mainly for the Ramadan and Eid al-Adha holidays. In preparation for winter, 3, 607 tons of glass for windows was transfered to Gaza.”
*Money: “Over NIS 1.1 billion (approximately $300 million) was transfered to Gaza in 2009 to fund salaries and the activities of international organizations. In addition, NIS 40 million (approx $10 million) in worn banknotes were replaced. In February 2010, Israel and the Palestinian Authority reached an agreement on the transfer of social security payments and pensions to benificiaries in Gaza who have worked in Israel. The money is to be transfered to Palestinian banks in the West Bank, and the Palestinian Authority can then deliver the money to benificiaries in Gaza.
*Humanitarian aid: “141, 390 tons of hmanitarian aid were transfered by the international community through Israel, including 115, 043 tons of food and 2,990 tons of medicines and medical equipment.”
*Entry of international organizations: “21,200 foreign stafe members and over 400 diplomatic delegations entered Gaza in 2009.”
*UNRWA: “3,282, 000 liters of fuel and diesel were transfered for use by UNRWA. In addition, special equipment for summer camps, including swimming pools, ice cream machines, musical instruments, and sports equipment were exported.
*Agricultural export: ” The export of flowers and stawberries was approved as part of a joint project with the government of the Netherlands. Since the beginning of the project, more than 7 million flowers and 54 tons of strawberries were exported.”
*Leaving Gaza: “As noted, 10, 544 patients (and their companions) exited Gaza. 147 students exited Gaza for academic studies abroad, in response to request made by the international community. 374 Christians exited Gaza to spend Christmas in Israel and Bethlehem, while 100 Christians exited Gaza to participate in the pope’s visit to the Holy Land in May 2009. 17 representatives exited Gaza to participate in the Fatah General Convention in Bethlehem, and approval was given for palyers on the Palestinian soccer team to leave Gaza for training and friendship games in the West Babk and abroad.”
Not Saved, I know your *Leftist* mindset, and anything you can do to discredit Israel, and twist terminology, as you’ve already done in other threads, is well known.
Does the foregoing info on the Israel/Palestinian situation, sound like Gaza is under seige, in real, true, honest terms?
And, the salient POINT, that people of your ilk, don’t want to remember IS:
1. Israel withdrew unilaterally FROM GAZA in a stupid misplaced quest for peace, with those fundamentalists, Islamic Jihadists, ( for whom there can be NO PEACE) only to see the Gaza strip within 24 hours misused to ATTACK Israel with rockets supplied by Iran, forcing Israel to enact a naval blockade in SELF-DEFENSE.
2. The suffering of the people in Gaza is exaggerated in contrast to what Islamists DO TO Christians in Sudan (whose CRIES these same pro-Hamas so-called humanitarian hucksters turn a deft ear TO).
3. The hardship in Gaxza is a DIRECT RESULT of the Fatah regime of Mahmoud Abbas and his predecessor Yasser Arafat, stealing, pilfering, embezzlling, misappropriating, and MISALLOCATING the humongous AMOUNT of international fiinancial aid FOOLISHLY squandered in Gaza, and just as foolishly provided to these thieves by the American and European governments, and by the great money shredding machine known as the UN.
4. Commercial commodities and construction materials shipped into Gaza are routinely commandeered for TERROR-RELATED construction for ROCKET launching bunker positions to ATTACK Israeli civilians and everything from toys to medical supplies are routinely hujacked. Both tunnel and sea routes of access to Gaza have furnished Iran with the means to SMUGGLE weapons of Islamic TERROR of the same Jihadist ideology responsible for multiple Islamic global attacks on the West, including those in New York, Washington, Paris, and London. Tel Aviv is simply a much closer outpost of Western civilization and thus an easier target.
5. The Israeli authorities were quite prepared to allow the self-defined humanitarian aid flotilla to dock and unlosad its wares in the nearby port of Ashdod, and providing no wesapons were discovered, to transport the materials to Gaza ininterrupted. This WAS REFUSED, as some weapons were aboard these crafts and fired at Israeli military personnel intercepting attempts to run the self-defense blockade necessitated by the actioms of Iran and Hamas.
Who is, the LIAR now, Not Saved?
“Clearly, this ‘tunnel’ business, which is not illegal, apart from when Hamas uses the tunnels to then, illegally, “Smuggle” in items”
According to Zoe, goods coming through the tunnels are not smuggled, well unless they smuggled.
The hypocrisy never ends.
We also have more lies from Zoe,
“NS, you quoted Khoury in full, and in your devious way, used the words, “SMUGGLING” “SMUGGLED” and “SMUGGLE” three times, yet, Khoury never once used any of these words, in describing the economic activity derived through these tunnels”
This of course is a lie.
Bassem Khoury told the following story of his own car…..
“I can send you a copy of the picture of a car my office bought in Gaza. The car was smuggled through the tunnels”
Your lies and dishonesty know no end.
Not Saved, You are clasping at straws in your flippant, destitute, warped, one-sided, prejudiced *Leftist* ‘denial-excuse-justification’ mind, just like those Islamic Jihadists, having spent two days searching to find some statement from Khoury, to justify his use of the word ‘smuggled’ is this all you can do???
You vehement stranger to TRUTH, denier of FACTS and EVIDENCE, in every which way of reality.
Ghazi al-Surani, a Palestinian researcher and one of the heads of the Popular Front for the liberation of Palestine, published a comprehensive study of the ‘tunnel industry’ on the Gaza-Egypt border. the highlights of the study were:
* The number of tunnels has risen from 20 in mid-2007 (the date of the Hamas takeover) to nearly 500 in November 2008.
*In operating the tunnels there is cooperation with the Egyptian security forces. Hamas controls most of the tunnels and GRANTS LICENSES to them through the Rafah municipality.
*A wide rage of commodities flow through the tunnels, including diesel fuel, gasoline, auto parts, sheep, calves, cigarattes, Viagra tablets, gold, and hundreds of other goods, in addition to the movement of people to and from Gaza.
*The tunnel network has brought an increase in imports from Egypt to the Gaza Strip, from $30 Million annually during the years 1994-2006 to more than $650 Million annually, and it provides employment to thousands of Palestinians. The agencies that are connected with operating the tunnels reap huge profits, and they are the ones responsible for the black market and the shyrockerting prices.
NOTE CAREFULLY:
These Leftist ‘junkies’ like Not Saved, and their international criers of ‘Siege’ and starvation on Gazans, which IS NOT TRUE, as the vast amount of commodities that have the shelves FULL, utterly refutes this LIE, yes, through the thriving tunnel industry, PLUS the THOUSANDS of trukloads sent through Israel to Gaza, and the BILLIONS of squandered $$$ over the years, used for Jihadists operations to DESTROY Israel, instead of building a life for the masses of Gazans, and you, Not Saved, have the gall to accuse me of dishonesty, you LIAR of untold proportions!
FACT: Which Not Saved et al deceitful minded Leftists, REFUSE to accept, that Israel withdrew unilaterally FROM Gaza, and stupidly so, making 10,000 of its own Jewish families, disengaged, HOMELESS, for the sake of peace, with these Islamic Terrorist, who, *FACT* within 24 hours of Israeli withdrawal, ATTACKED Israel with rockets supplied by Iran.
WHO IS TO BLAME, then, for the MESS that came upon the Gazans? WHO Not Saved? WHO? Are you capable of thinking critically, honestly, objectively? I think NOT!
The hardship in Gaza, IS a DIRECT RESULT of the Fatah regime of Mahmoud Abbas and his precedessor Yasser Arafat, who STOLD, PILFERED, EMBEZZELED, and utterly misappropriated VAST amounts of financial aid, to the PERIL of Gaza. But, it did NOT end there, as, instead of taking Gaza, as Israel had GIVEN totally, and building what could have been so good for the Gazans, HAMAS, the de facto regime, launched a vicious TERROR war on Israeli towns, tormenting them with over, 8,000 rockets for the past three years, bringing upon themselves, what NO other soveriegn nation would have taken for so long, as Israel DID, and are nor reaping the consequences for such beastly terror on Israel; and YOU, Not Saved et al, have the termerity to accuse others of dishonesty and lies.
Ziad Jarghoun, a member of the central committe of the Demoncratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine, also published a comprehensive study of the tunnels on the Gaza-Egypt border (December 13, 2008) Some of its highlights are:
*Some 800 tunnels are either in operation or under construction.
*The city of Rafah, which is administered by Hamas people, supervises the tunnels along with the national security forces that are deployed along the border. The object of this supervision is to collect taxes. In December 2008 the Rafah municipality and the security forces stopped the excavation of new tunnels because there were too many.
*Every tunnel has 15-20 workers working shifts, and every shift has 6-8 workers.
*Sometimes a tunnel is run by several partners. The partners sign a contract in a lawyer’s office, and the agreement states the number of shares held by each partner and how the shareowners will split the profits.
*The opening of the tunnel on the Egyptian side is called “the eye of the tunnel” and the supervisor of the opening is called “Amin.” He is usually an Egyptian citizen and one of the residents of Egyptian Rafah. He receives half of the profits and his job is to guard the site and unload the goods into the tunnel.
*The monthly import through the tunnels is estimated at $35-40 million, and the annual profits to tunnel owners are estimated at $200-300 million.
*in early September 2008, the Rafah municipality began to collect a fee from the tunnel owners known as “commercial activity across the border.” All tunnel owners pay NIS 10,000 ($2,700). The Rafah municipality imposes sanctions against those who refuse to pay the fee by denying permits to complete construction of a tunnel or closing an open tunnel. The municipality contends that the tax is collected to pay the salaries of municipal officials and employees and to cover the municipality’s expenses.
Not Saved, your mental and intellectual functions are so mared, impaired, prejudiced, by the LIES you have imbibed, that you have chosen to believe it as truth, and no LIE is of the TRUTH.
….And why is there a need for the tunnels in the first place again?
Another, Jihadist oriented minded fool!
If the light that be in you is DARKESS, Oh’ how great IS that DARKNESS???
Poor Zoe…..the easy questions seem to be the ones giving you the most trouble to answer!!
What is a Jihadist oriented mind fool?
Must be similar to a false prophet or a religious nomad..or liar…ROFLMAO!!
You can duck and weave all you want. Post all the ME sanitised by Israel info but you are yet to show the justification of the collective punishment of the Palestinian people by Israel, with the continuation of the blockade, deemed illegal and inhumane by numerous world bodies.
Continue to carry on with your nomadic religious journey, blinded to reality because of the blinkers of biblical rhetoric and prophecy.
I you are what being a Christian is, then I rather stay in my darkness and ignorance.
Tunnels ≠ Smuggling
Only Zoe could try to convince us of such a claim. Then again, reason and logic were never his strong points.
The Financial Times calls the tunnel economy smuggling but what would they know. Zoe knows better. Smuggling through a tunnel? never !
Here is a recent article.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/587d04da-6686-11df-aeb1-00144feab49a.html
And a few excerpts,
“While the dangerous work proceeds below, Nasim, one of the owners of the tunnel, waits in the tent that covers the entrance. He is among a small number of Gazans who have made a fortune by undermining, quite literally, Israel’s economic embargo of the strip.Until recently, tunnel owners could expect to make at least $50,000 (€40,000, £35,000) in net profits every month by smuggling fuel, cigarettes and other goods from Egypt.”
“For close to three years, the tunnels below Rafah have offered a unique lifeline to Gazans, who are otherwise deprived of all but the most basic
humanitarian supplies”
This is mind boggling hypocrisy from the likes of Zoe. Pointing to the smuggling tunnels to legitimise the siege.
Here is the last para.
“One western official says the tunnels act like a “humanitarian safety valve”, but cautions that they offer no solution to economic decline. As Mr Hammad says: “An economy cannot just depend on tunnels.””
Every major humanitarian organisation not least of all, The Red Cross condemns the blockade as an unacceptable way to treat the population of Gaza.
But Zoe would have us believe he knows otherwise and they are all liars.
It is amazing that these two “christians” would spare us no effort to justify the shocking treatment of fellow human beings.
I guess “do onto others…” is not part of the Zoe school of theology.
Then again, MME explained it to us already. These “christianists” are no Christians.
Oxfam
“International aid agency Oxfam today warned that the Gazan economy, which has been almost completely destroyed by three years of isolation, will continue to unravel unless the blockade is completely and immediately lifted.”
http://www.oxfam.org/en/pressroom/pressrelease/2010-06-14/gaza-needs-jobs-not-just-aid
“Israel currently allows some 100 types of items into Gaza. Before the beginning of the blockade over 4,000 entered Gaza. Heavy restrictions on imports and the near complete halt of all exports have led to a wide-scale shut down of Gazan industry. Factories have been crippled by the shortage of raw materials, leaving tens of thousands of people out of work. The blockade, which amounts to collective punishment, illegal under international law, has brought the Gazan economy to its knees.”
“The blockade has unleashed a tragic chain reaction that has affected many of Gaza’s one and a half million residents. When a factory is forced to shut down because it can’t import or export, it doesn’t just affect the employees who lose their jobs. Entire families relying on that salary also lose out, becoming dependent on humanitarian aid”
Oxfam, liars too?
Zoe,
Here is another simple question for you to avoid;
Why are exports restricted?
NS (Not Saved)
Lord have mercy, man, you gine kill e?
Israel can’t shut down a city because it is afraid of it’s enemies to where the people are lacking food and medical supplies.That is the same as genocide!
Zoe hates ALL Muslims and ALL Arabs!!!…Period!!
I can’t for the life of me, understand how a person who proclaims to be a Christian, can be so biased on an issue like this.
No one is disputing the terror by Hamas but does this justify the blockade and siege??
Innocent people including women and children are being punished and made to suffer. Children have no hope and only fall prey to the ideology of Hamas, therefore all the blockade does is to produce generation after generation of terrorist. This might very well be the situation Israel wants, as it will continuously justify their claims of self defence.
Zoe seems to miss all this in his over zealous quest to demonise the Palestinians.
I remain undaunted, fearless, in the face of the ABOVE benighted, uninformed deniers of FACTS and truth, who hide behind rhetorical nonsense, redherrings, utter rejection of credible warranted evidence, unable in their IGNORANCE to see the trees from the jungle, and the world media and international so-called humanitarians agencies, who are likewise *blinded* to the reality of WHO STARTED all of this, WHO is logically responsible for the self-imposed hardship brought on the Gazans, in the first place.
Let me state for the record, unequivocally:
1) I have for over 30 years, had and still have extremely cordial relationships with Arabs right here in B’dos. Both at the business and personal levels. And yes, many of them are Muslims.
2) I DO NOT HATE Arab Muslims as people, not at all, yes, I am morally and spiritually against their ideology of HATE towards Israel, and our Western civilization, and their radically declared INTENT, one way or the other to subjugate ALL nations under Islamic Sheria Law.
3) Two of my children have Arabs as their God-parents.
Salient, pertinent, weighty, obvious FACTS that the above posters REFUSE to deal with re Israel and the Arabs/Palestinians, beginning in 1948, and continuing right up to today, that simply CANNOT be pushed into the background, in honestly, objectively, and cohenently addressing the current impasse, predicament, on the blockade.
FACT: Isreal NEVER attacked any Arab nation beginning in 1948, when its Statehood was officially decalred by the then League of Nations.
FACT: It WAS Egypt, Jordan and Syria WHO diabolically and viciously ATTACKED Israel , literally HOURS after May, 1948 to DESTROY her and ALL Jews.
FACT: The Arab nations surrounding Israel, AGAIN in 1967, out-numbering Israel 20-1, sought to ATTACK her again, with ONE SOLE, openly declared INTENT, to ANNIHILATE her from the face of the earth. They FAILED, yet again.
FACT: In more recent times, Hezbollah, and Hamas, have vehemently declared their VICIOUS intent, one way or the other, to TORMENT and TERRORIZE Israel and its citizens, UNTIL, one day, when they are strong enough, with Iran et al supplying them with arms, to ANNIHILATE Israel.
FACT: Israel, stupidly agreed to give up Gaza, in 2005, the FACTS are all there, for peace.
FACT: Instead of the Palestinians making the very best of this complete withdrawal by Israel from Gaza, and using the BILLIONS of international aid, to build a decent life for Gazans, along comes HAMAS, a sworn entity of Terrorism against Israel, and DELIBERATELY, viciously, for THREE YEARS, launches OVER 8,000 rockets against innocent Israeli towns.
FACT: After repeated efforts by the Arab nations, beginning in 1948, to DESTROY Israel, now carried on by HAMAS, WHO are responsible FOR the hardship, brought on the Gazans, as Israel HAD NO option, but to protect itself, from the CONSTANT *sumggling* of weapons into Gaza, from the Egyptian border, as the OPENLY beclared INTENT to DESTROY Israel, by the PLO/PA Hamas et al, HAS NEVER being withdrawn from their official documents, and these ignorant, posters here on BU, come with a LOAD of BS, utterly, UNWILLING to look at the overall FACTS of history, (1948-to present time) like the rest of the terribly biased media, and so-called humanitarian bodies, WHO SAY not a word in support of MILLIONS of BLACK Christians in Sudan, MASSACRED by Islamic Terrorist.
Not one you ignorant, lowbrow, ingenuous, posters here on BU, don’t brother me a bit, as non of you, have presented any cogent, coherent, objective, argument, in LIGHT of the FACTS from 1948 to the present time, which CANNOT be ignored or separated from the present blockade, as its GENESIS (beginning) goes right back to the vicious WARS of 1948, 67, 73, to torment and DESTROY Israel and ALL Jews.
Any so and so, could write the diatribe CRAP coming from these BU hardheads, what utter folly, foolishness, and lowdown ignorance.
It won’t be long before it all comes to a head, exactly as prophecied in God’s Word, as it IS playing out, day by day, as He said it would.
Keep posting your incoherent, complete, illogical LIES and BS, all part and parcel of the same worldwide HOGWASH!!!
You CAN’T answer to the FACTS, so you attack the poster, old worn out tactic, won’t WORK!!!
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