Dr. Carlos Chase, President of BAMP
The Barbados Association of Medical Practitioners (BAMP) is a union which is feared in Barbados. It does not matter how rich or well-positioned socially, the fear of not having a doctor available to attend to an unexpected malady will strike fear in the hearts of most. In this regard BAMP in the opinion of BU has exploited their position of influence through the years to the point where renaming the association the Barbados Association of Medical Untouchables maybe more appropriate.
The current impasse between BAMP and the QEH Board caused in the main by the non renewal of contracts of two long serving consultants is the latest in the woes of the sole public hospital, once a symbol of excellence in healthcare delivery in the region. The release of Head of Department of Radiology Dr. Rambarat based on media reports was because of inefficiency. Today’s press quotes Rambarat’s colleagues questioning non delivery of CT scans to facilitate the best healthcare delivery. It is interesting that the concerns about the lack of CT scans should come from Dr. Carlos Chase the head of BAMP and Dr. Harish Thani the head of Accident & Emergency (A&E) Department.
Related Links
The other consultant, the debonair and jet setting urologist Dr Jerry Emtage, yes he has a jet at his disposal has contracted Ralph Thorne, the brother of Dr. Jerry Thorne to avoid the QEH hammer. So far he appears to have been successful.
Public Relations Officer Dr. Ermine Belle has reported this evening BAMP’s intension to ramp-up industrial action tomorrow by including the Polyclinics across the island in the strike action. In response CEO Dr. Dexter James has advised that the junior doctors will be on call to deliver medical care. Junior doctors are represented by the National Union of Public Workers (NUPW) who appear to be not part of the strike action.
Whatever are the merits and demerits of the current dispute, here is what stinks in the opinion of BU. We have poor and ordinary Barbadians in a depressed economic climate who will be denied healthcare tomorrow, and for what? The sacking of the head of Radiology who based on comments from his colleagues has been inefficient. Dr. Emtage what can we say. A multi-millionaire who feels driven to fight to hold his position as Consultant at the QEH. We want to know why?
So who is taking part in the strike, if not the junior doctors?
Can somebody explain or even identify BAMP’s grievance or position. Managers are fired every day and it doesn’t make the news.
It appears BAMP believes some courtesy/deference should be given to long serving consultants like Emtage and the other gentleman.
In the hospital setting a junior doctor is essential those doctors who are not comsultants. This category may include some doctors with much experience Some may even have “consultant” qualifications, or are close to obtaining them.
Junior doctors do the bulk of the work at the hospital. They do all the routine donkey work. So clearly the hospital is covered. .
David if Junior doctors are represented by the National Union of Public Workers (NUPW) who appear to be not part of the strike action, and if they are on call to work tomorrow, how will “poor and ordinary Barbadians in a depressed economic climate be denied healthcare tomorrow” ?
I listened today to the President of BAMP indicated through David Ellis and Starcom that there would be an upscale to their strike action and that action would now affect the polyclinics etcetera. While I do sympathise with BAMP based upon the bits of information appearing in public, I am somewhat disheartened that subsequent to meetings which they would have had with their membership (since the President indicated that escalations were are least in part due to comments made last night by the Chairman of the Board),what was fed to the public today appeared to trickle through an IV bag. I think all parties have to be serious and take all considerations and possible consequences into account. From being distant, I cannot make definitive statements on the issue, but it is obvious that there are problems of communication and more than likely the super-ego syndrome is getting nailed to the cross as well. Dr. Chase, in a matter as serious as the one that your association finds itself, you cannot come to the public as unprepared as you sounded today. In the event that your side is the side that needs public support to gain attraction or momentum, you cannot treat the listening public to postponement or procrastination — these are concerns of health as much as it is to governance. I am requesting on behalf of all Barbadians that you reconsider your ‘strike action’ and find other available means to communicate and negotiate without compromising the health of my brothers and sisters. You would note that at this time, I am still in partial support of your key claims. I do not in any way absolve the government from blame or excuse them from treating to their responsibilities in ensuring that tax payers and residents of Barbados have an institution that they can expect good quality care in a timely manner. At some other time I shall deal with the growing authoritarian and autocratic style of governance being pursued by this administration. It however serves you well to treat this disruption in health care in the same manner that you would expect our support if injustice is prevailing at that institution and affecting your doctors.
Just wondering if anyone can (or will) speak to this question…
The last time QEH lost power, the single backup generator failed to function. And it turned out that QEH hadn’t heard about large UPSs for operating rooms and other critical services, so they also went dark.
In the fourth estate there were promises that lots of money was being spent to ensure this never happened again (consultants engaged, etc.).
So, from this then, may I please ask…
If power failed today at QEH… What would happen? Would it be any different than what happened the last time?
@ Brutus
Junior doctors are used as the pawns. The
Consultants/Untouchables determine if they will be successful in exams.The government has finally met its match. Unlike the NUPW, BWU, BSTU etc, BAMP is clearly not letting this government steamroll its membership. This episode is just a continuation in this administration’s disregard for established laws and protocols governing employment. The same NUPW only few weeks ago accused government of being apathetic towards proper procedures, and signaled their intention to start civil proceedings against the administration.
That’s it?!!! Courtesy/deference? As to that consultant that doesn’t like to turn up…all I will say his heart doesn’t seem to be in his work (wink wink).
No No David;
That was not question that I was instructed to ask in survey … the question should be ..
“Should Government Employed Doctors Be Allowed To Strike?
It is response to this that my family very interested in …no?
@BAFBFP
Your poll was updated.
A Press Release issued by the QEH has been updated to the blog.
David
I know you appreciate my difficulty with the English … so maybe you be patient for I no see where poll be located … Now you must write slowly as reading skill not so good for me … no?
Very sad. Errol Barrow must be rolling in the grave, that free medical promised to Barbadians has come to this.
Nurses from Asia, some do not speak English (I witnessed this firsthand, so do not dispute), medical carewithheld, a Board that seemingly is strong headed and not meeting properly with the parties concerned….
Sorry, but on this I must agree with Mia. Neither Adams nor Barrow would have allowed this impasse.
The action and thus blame cannot be on the temporarily incapacitated Thompson, but the current authority-holding PM.
The Hippocratic Oath
How much does it hold in modern times?
“I will respect the privacy of my patients, for their problems are not disclosed to me that the world may know. Most especially must I tread with care in matters of life and death. If it is given to me to save a life, all thanks. But it may also be within my power to take a life; this awesome responsibility must be faced with great humbleness and awareness of my own frailty. Above all, I must not play at God.
I will remember that I do not treat a fever chart, a cancerous growth, but a sick human being, whose illness may affect the person’s family and economic stability. My responsibility includes these related problems, if I am to care adequately for the sick.
I will prevent disease whenever I can, for prevention is preferable to cure.
I will remember that I remain a member of society, with special obligations to all my fellow human beings, those sound of mind and body as well as the infirm.
If I do not violate this oath, may I enjoy life and art, respected while I live and remembered with affection thereafter. May I always act so as to preserve the finest traditions of my calling and may I long experience the joy of healing those who seek my help.
Above comment round thread. Anyhow wunna too serious!. becareful wunna don’t have stroke or send de blood pressure up worrying about dem “so called” practitioners because de no wuk or wukking up no more
Oh Comrade David
Yes, I have located the asset …I repeat, I have located the asset … do you copy … overt..?
@ Chris Halsall
QEH now has one of the keenest and most knowledgeable electrical engineers in the business, in the position of Director of Engineering. Ms Yarde believes in, and practices Preventive Maintenance. With no political interference, I am confidant that the QEH’s electrical side is in capable hands.
I can’t believe that BAMP would strike if the sacking of Dr. Rambrat was above board. If it were clear that he was inefficient, and despite being approached and ordered by the Board to deal with the CT scans and he did not, then it should not have been a surprise when he was given his walking papers. So there has to be more to the story.
Perhaps a good reason or reasons exists why he did not deal with the CT scans. Maybe the reason was good enough to prevent him from having a disciplinary hearing. But not a good enough reason in the Board’s opinion for them not to sack him, and keep the details quiet for fear he would sue them and maybe have a legitimate case. The Chairman of the Board has talked about how both doctor and QEH can walk out of the doctors’ contract by giving notice on either side. I wonder what is there to stop the Board from firing as many doctors as they feel like by just giving them notice without having to provide any reason whatsoever. I hope the BAMP doctors taking action now don’t find themselves in that position.
@ Jerry Emtage
are you Anonymous that wrote piece on “The Hippocratic Oath” ..? … hic …
…This very good stuff … hic … most potent … hic … send som bak hom .. urp
This is just crazy to say the least. In my opinion it should be illegal and criminal for provider of essential services ( as in this case health care provider) to go on strike. We need legislation in Barbados to deal with these issues because as it now stands BAMP is now playing blackmail and hard ball politics. The government should fire them all if they go on strike , similar to what Reagan did to the Air traffic controller in the 80s. If their is a shortage of health care provider in the system the Cubans and the Phillipinos will gladly fill the shortage.
@BAFBFP
Glad you found it.
Agree that Doctors should not be allowed to strike. What more essential service can one imagine than that of primary healthcare provider?
Mia needs to explain herself!
Today’s press quotes Rambarat’s colleagues questioning non delivery of CT scans to facilitate the best healthcare delivery. It is interesting that the concerns about the lack of CT scans should come from Dr. Carlos Chase the head of BAMP and Dr. Harish Thani the head of Accident & Emergency (A&E) Department.
I think it amazing and mind boggling that these same educated clowns working with BAMP can be heard to be critical for this same man’s non delivery of service but on the other they go out on strike in his support, if that is not politically motivated I don’t what is Ask Belle who she represents in this instance, some suggest not the doctors not the hospital but rather Mottley.
@Zion
When the government fire them all.Then what! with the inadequate care being given under this bunch. you think that the others would be better ? i think not. Further more it would cost more to hire another crew since most of the new crew would have to come from outside of the country and they not going to work for peanuts. Barbados does not have enough qualified doctors at present living here.The fact that the governbment let this problem escalate to this point is inexcusable. It seems like No one in government is in charge at this critical time.The people should be calling for their heads on a plate and this is a good time since there are no doctors working. How de hell could the government play Russian roulette with the lives of so many,. A God dammm shame! You think this would have been allowed to happen if our PM was a patient at the QEH, What de hell is going on here the people need ANSWERS NOW!
@ Comrade David
We in East do thing that offend West until situation like QEH catch with you ..no? Funny how both political party opt to replace member of essential service with overseas supply if member from essential service opt to greener pasture … So maybe essential service not essential service afterall … no? But Doctor most essential service … but can strike and not risk replacement from overseas supply … not very splendid, not very splendid at all … no?
they though they were indispensable!! get rid of the all and give young blood a a chance!!!
@BAFBFP
In light of all that has happen we need to look at this situation. Any precedents in Caribbean islands as far as legislation goes?
This situation is just a natural part of the change process.
It is obvious that the Board and minister are serious about making some fundamental changes at QEH – and that the BAMP is part of the problem.
Not that they are ‘bad’ people, just that the system has become over time, a doctors’ hospital where conceited doctors (like one we know well) go with the primary aim of becoming rich. The patients are just a necessary distraction….
If a new Board come into position with a mandate that the whole focus of the place needs to change to one where the needs of the patients comes first, don’t you think that there will be friction… and that in particular, those doctors who are ‘at the top of the food chain’ will be upset after fighting their way into the money-making positions?
This is why Dr Chase was speechless on VOB. Wanna think that he could tell the truth about why BAMP vex?!?!? You expect him to admit that their ‘sweet’ system was being dismantled?
Those calling for the acting PM to do something to maintain the status quo -while also trying to solve the fundamental problem at the QEH are just naive. ….. they want the cancer removed, but not the trauma of an operation, or even to take any medicine. The PM has done his duty by issuing and standing by the mandate for change.
The Board needs to maintain their stance and even take the opportunity to go further. Terminate the contracts of all those who go on strike and offer new contracts to new doctors who are willing to break from BAMP and the old scam system, or who are willing to relocate from overseas with new attitudes (a certain teacher not included)
The truth is that these ‘consultants’ are no longer as indispensable as they think they are – or as they were a few years ago. This is borne out by the chronic non-performance of some of them. Many of them have more to lose than to gain because they were able to use the QEH as their personal office and surgery for free, as well as to convert QEH patients into paying private patients.
….and there are many really dedicated doctors out there who are indeed patient focused -but who are just not interested in the limelight (or the “sweets”) right now.
Change comes with some measure of dislocation.
“No pain, no gain” is a fact of life, and at the QEH, there IS a need for change.
@ CH and Nationalist,
The QEH has at last employed a REAL engineer in the form of Ms Yarde and the difference is obvious and expected. Clearly, what is needed in a highly technological place like that, is some more engineers on board and less parasites.
@ AC. Anything is better right now than the present condition. 80% of the health budget goes to wages of which overtime charges constitute a decent slice. These consultants donot come cheap and they are, in my opinion, well over-paid based on the delivery of services right now in BIM. We shouldnot be held to ransom by the tribalist and group-think mentality of those who sworn to the hippocratic principle.
I still say fire them if they go on strike and recruit outsiders for the jobs.
@ Bush Tea
‘This situation is just a natural part of the change process.’
Anyone familiar with change management knows that a communications strategy (which appears to be absent from this ‘change’) is fundamental to success.
Compliment Nationnews – Doctors at odds
-According to the minutes, BAMP president Dr Carlos Chase queried how Rambarat could “refuse to come out when each consultant receives an on-call allowance.-
How does a union leader after such a statement defend this doctor’s sacking? Is this a double minded man?
@Enuff
The QEH issue is not* one to go partisan. Your last comment seems to ignore that the QEH matter has challenged all* governments in the last 20-30 years. To quote what many are saying on the ground, some doctors, things will have to get worse before it gets better.
To quote an unnamed person who sent us a note on this matter:
Dr. George Nicholson adds his voice in a letter to the Nation.
__________________________________
Devil’s in the contract details
By: GEORGE D. NICHOLSON, DM (Oxf), FRCP, professor emeritus, UWI
I CONSIDER it most unfortunate that the consultant staff members of the Queen Elizabeth Hospital (QEH) have had to take industrial action following the determination of the employment of a long-serving colleague.
To imply that such a dismissal is part of the QEH board of management’s new “efforts to make the QEH a patient-centred institution rather than doctor-centred” [as stated in the SATURDAY SUN of August 14], is risible and insulting to both patients and physicians.
The chairman of the board is quoted, in the same article, as saying that under the terms of the contracts offered to consultants by the QEH, the board “may at any time determine the engagement [read ‘contract’] of the employee on giving three months notice in writing to that effect or on paying him one month’s salary”.
There appears to be an internal dissonance in that statement. The first half quite obviously refers to a “contract” between employer and employee, whereas the second is an “engagement” [if one does not wish to be disingenuous] in which the employee accepts “employment at will”.
To put it another way, the employee has demonstrated a “willingness to work” and her or his employment can be terminated without notice and without need for explanation on either side. She or he has no “contractual obligation” to or from the employer.
I find it strange that anyone would sign a contract written so as to hold such apparently conflicting clauses.
While industrial law is not my forte, I wish the board of the QEH well in their attempts to attract “young” doctors or specialists from the Barbadian diaspora who earn in excess of US$400 000 (according to Sanjay Gupta) per annum and who have a better understanding than I do of legal and ethical employment termination.
@ David
Intelligent agent is presently on intelligent mission … effect of striking doctor in many part of world … Not very good for society … some place claim that death rate reduce by 40% during strike … no? But no place found that doctor not allowed to strike in region … Maybe good case for Unions to stop practice of firemen and policemen not allowed to strike then …
Could somebody explain to me the points that Dr. Nicholson is trying to make?
- why does he consider the point about making the hospital “a patient-centred institution rather than doctor-centred” to be “risible and insulting to both patients and physicians”? Is this explained in the letter or are we to assume? Does he feel like GP that it should NOT be patient-centred, or does he believe it already is?
- what is the internal dissonance that he is talking about? What are the apparently conflicting clauses?
- Why does he find it strange that anyone would sign this contract, when we have already been told that consultants have signed it? Is it that he does not really believe that these apparently conflicting terms are in the contract, or is he saying that in future the consultants should not accept these terms?
- what is the point he is trying to make in wishing the Board well in attracting “young” doctors or specialists from the diaspora and why does he mention how much money they can earn in the US? What does Sanjay Gupta have to do with it?
Bush Tea, you were spot on in your comments, excellent work.
Peter Wickham is currently hosting his show on CBC and has taken full aim at the doctors with a swipe at the lawyers.
BAMP is losing the public relations battle. They need to step up quickly and explain clearly why they had to take industrial action and what it is they want. This matter should have been resolved behind closed doors but they are the ones who put the matter squarely into the public domain (by striking).
Brutus | August 17, 2010 at 9:30 AM |
Re BAMP is losing the public relations battle.
Do they have to win it? LOL All BAMP got to do is get the contracts written properly. LOL
When the strike done and wunnah done keeping nuff noise, will go back to wunnah SAME specialists! LOL Ah lie?
Re They need to step up quickly and explain clearly why they had to take industrial action and what it is they want.
The doctors don’t got to step up no where or explain nothing to the public The Guvment got to address the contracts!
You don’t know that every Dr working for Guvment are under contract?. And they can be fired at will! Seems BAMP is seeking to change that. And they have every right to do so! Doctors are human too.
I agree with you…This matter should have been resolved behind closed doors but Maxy Balls et al think they can INTIMIDATE the men. But even Ermine Belle got balls!
You asked “Could somebody explain to me the points that Dr. Nicholson is trying to make? “
Hear you are talking a load of bovine excrement and you cant understand simple English.
“Nicko” telling you jokers what all the fuss is about. It does not seem to be about Ramrat or Emptage
You asking lots of questions man. You cant understand nuttin but keeping noise? LOL Where has
Here is the answer to one of your silly questions
Why does he find it strange that anyone would sign this contract, when we have already been told that consultants have signed it?
THE REASON WHY THEY SIGN IS BECAUSE THEY WANT TO WORK IN BARBADOS!
Here is the answer to another of your silly questions
- what is the point he is trying to make in wishing the Board well in attracting “young” doctors or specialists from the diaspora and why does he mention how much money they can earn in the US?
EVERY YEAR MANY OF OUR POST INTERNS MIGRATE TO THE USA
WHERE THEY ARE PAID MUCH BETTER THAN THEY ARE IN BARBADOS AND WHERE THEY ARE RESPECTED
AND WHERE THEY HAVE ALL THE FACILITIES AND EQUIPMENT THEY NEED TO FACILITATE THEIR WORK
AND WHERE DOCTORS CONTROL THE HOSPITALS INSTEAD OF POLITICALLY APPOINTED PRIESTS
AND WHERE THERE IS EASY ACESS TO FURTHER TRAINING
FYI there were some who returned in the mid 70’s THEY FLED IN HASTE!
Re What does Sanjay Gupta have to do with it?
He mocking wunnah
You all have been adjudicating with out the facts and are still doing so. Its Hilarious!
BTW George Nicholson is one of the most brilliant men I have met . One of the few men in my whole University career that I thought that I had to go to listen to. He was also very strict and very fair.
So you sound very funny trying to scoff at him.
I don’t support either Emptage or Rambarat, but the QEH board has got to stop the antagonistic attitude towards staff.
People who resent doctors might enjoy the board wanting to take doctors down a peg, but that doesn’t make it right, or fair, or sensible.
Why not lift patients up instead of pulling doctors down? Why not allow doctors a little job security, for a change? Why not have predictable, fair work evaluation instead of class resentment and political knives in the night?
Enuff you Quote the omniscient all wise Bush Tea
Anyone familiar with change management knows that a communications strategy (which appears to be absent from this ‘change’) is fundamental to success.
SO THEN THERE IS A BREAK DOWN IN COMMUNICATION THAT HAS RESULTED IN MAXY BALLS VS BAMP BALLS
Wunnah cussing the doctors, but doesn’t it take two to tangle?
Amazed writes
-According to the minutes, BAMP president Dr Carlos Chase queried how Rambarat could “refuse to come out when each consultant receives an on-call allowance.-
How does a union leader after such a statement defend this doctor’s sacking? Is this a double minded man?
CLEARLY THE FUNDAMENTAL ISSUE HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH RAMRAT
IT IS CLEARLY SOMETHING OF GREATER IMPORT!
TWO SIDES TO THE STORY
You really believe the man so stupid to contradict himself?
@Georgie Porgie,
Does BAMP have to win the public relations battle? I will let them decide. I do not share your assessment of this tremendous power that they wield, especially now that we have heard that the NUPW has not joined them in the strike action. How many doctors are actually striking? Does anyone know?
I have no doubt that George Nicholson is a brilliant man, but that does not mean I can not ask some questions about what he wrote? Why am I “scoffing at him” merely by asking some questions? It is sad that you, as a self-described teacher, would describe questions I asked seeking clarification as “bovine excrement” and “silly”. Since you are clearly as brilliant as Nicholson you have the ability to read his thoughts and interpret what he has written. I do not have that ability.
But it seems to me that you have made a lot of assumptions about what Nicholson meant by what he wrote. You are right, maybe it is my poor command of the English language that prevented me from leaping to the same conclusions that you did. However nothing I have seen in your writings suggests any superior command of the English language. But do we really need to get personal like this, you and I who do not know each other, or can we stick to a discussion of the issues?
If all of the fuss is about the contract clauses, then why did the doctors not strike before? Are these new contracts? Have they asked to renegotiate the contracts and been refused by the Board? Did any of the consultants raise concerns about the termination clause before they signed the contract?
If the issue is the contract, then what is the relevance of pointing out how much money they can make overseas?
I am merely asking questions, but it is you who appears to be adjudicating without the facts. Do you know if Nicholson himself has the facts? Has BAMP said what the issue is? What ARE the facts, GP? Do you even care?
@Another doctor,
I agree with much of what you said, but are you suggesting that doctors have not had more than a little job security in the past? If they were not held accountable for performance or lack thereof then this seems like a lot of job security.
Here the word of the Lord by BUSH TEA himself! A perfect man One without sin or fault and one who knows all!
“The Board needs to maintain their stance and even take the opportunity to go further.
IS THIS NOT WHY THERE IS A STRIKE?
UP TO NOW BY YOUR OWN ADMISSION IT IS UNCLEAR TO YOU THE REASON FOR THE IMPASSE except for what you think the reason is.
Re
Terminate the contracts of all those who go on strike and offer new contracts to new doctors who are willing to break from BAMP and the old scam system, or who are willing to relocate from overseas with new attitudes (a certain teacher not included)
GREAT IDEA! FIRE THE WHOLE LOT!
AFTER ALL YOU CAN GO DOWN BROAD STREET AND PICK UP A FEW AT CAVE SHEPHERD
Get doctors willing to break from BAMP
Why should they want to break from BAMP Sir
What function does BAMP serve besides being a necessary trade union (as we are now seeing) I wished I had joined myself LOL
Re The truth is that these ‘consultants’ are no longer as indispensable as they think they are – or as they were a few years ago
SO WHY NOT FIRE THEM ALL
AND WHY ARE THE PEOPLE USING THEIR SERVICES SUCH THAT THERE IS A MARKED INCREASE IN PRIVATE PATIENTS AT THE HOSPITAL
GO GET THE FACTS BT
Even naughty Jerry. He is the ONLY Urologist in the country! And wunnah eating nuff meat and doing all the wrong things to cause the incidence of prostate disease to increase. FIRE HIM BEFORE YOU CAN GET ONE TO COME FROM HEAVEN TO REPLACE HIM AT THE MEASLY PRICE THAT IS PAID?
Re
This is borne out by the chronic non-performance of some of them.
I love to read when medical illiterates talk about the performance of the profession. On what basis do you adjudicate on their performance Sir. On their attendance?
Are they making wrong diagnoses? Are they giving wrong medicine? Are they practicing in accordance to current medical procedure. How does a medical illiterate adjudicate on the performance of medics.
I only asking? And laughing and mocking these emotional outbursts by you uninformed folk.
Re or who are willing to relocate from overseas with new attitudes (a certain teacher not included)
I finished my internship in 1981 AND LEFT THE HOSPITAL FOR GOOD . I DO NOT WANT A JOB AT QEH BUSH TEA OK
AND I WONT BE LED BY A POLITICALLY POSITIONED PRIEST.
How would the jackass understand the issues I might be faced with? Will he pray or consult the Bible- which he probably has never properly studied anyway?
Now hear the word of zion 1971
Anything is better right now than the present condition. SO WHY ARE YOU FUSSING? WOULD NOT STIKING BE INCLUDED IN ANYTHING? LOL
Re These consultants do not come cheap and they are, in my opinion, well over-paid based on the delivery of services right now in BIM.
In 1996 consultant pay was 6000 per month half used to come out in tax. Is that overpaid. There are several folk who get what is today’s’ equivalent
I AGREE WITH YOU MAN fire them if they go on strike and recruit outsiders for the jobs.
LET US TRY TO DO THAT THAT’S A BRILLIANT IDEA
YOU CAN GET THEM BY THE DROVES FROM INDIA PAKISTAN ETC BY THE DROVES EASY EASY MAN
BTW who swears by this hippocratic principle today.
What do BU opiners swear by? LOL
@ Another doctor who wrote
Why not allow doctors a little job security, for a change? Why not have predictable, fair work evaluation instead of class resentment and political knives in the night?
YOU ASK A GOOD QUESTION
I MYSELF SUFFERED FROM THE SAME JOB INSECURITY BUT I WAS NOT IN BAMP AND HAD NO RECOURSE
All I am hearing is we paid to send the doctors to medical school free. That apparently gives guvment the right to fire them at will after treating them like dogs and even denying them certain benefits to which they are entitled.
Brutus | August 17, 2010 at 11:09 AM |
I am here in my armchair in FL just having fun with you guys, and supplying you with information that seeks to balance the rants.
Having worked with or trained with some of the folk you are cussing, I know /knew what to expect. I predicted months ago what would happen0 just as it has worked out.
The problem will not be solved by testosterone displays and MAXY BALLS vs BAMP BALLS.
You guys seem to think that the doctors are wrog on all counts. None of you have sought to see if the doctors have a point of view.
All I am indicating is that they do. I WAS ONCE IN THIER SHOES.
As to whether I have cared or do care, I CAN BRING TO THE HIGH COURT STEPS MYRIADS WHO CAN ATTEST TO THE LEVEL OF MY CARE AND DEDICATION.
You guys need tio understand that there is another side, and that if you were in the doctors shoes or had children or relatives in thier shoes, you might just be thinking otherwise.
Most doctors who work for Government are not at all rich or well paid ( I put my salary into real estate). I worked because I enjoyed it; not to get rich thereby. And many doctors are like that- including consultants.
When your contract is terminated neither government or the peop;le care about you . I KNOW. Fortunately GOD CARES about me!
So allow me to have my fun on BU in peace. There is much information and merit in what I am saying; and I know more about what is happening than you think. Peace
your rants who a
@Georgie Porgie,
I asked if you care about the facts of this matter, not do you care at all.
You are having fun, but I can’t have some fun too? I think you are doing a good job fielding all of the comments and criticisms, but don’t lump all bloggers in the same boat. I am not one who thinks that the doctors are wrong on all counts, but I don’t think they are right on all counts either. And I am not cussing anybody, not even you.
I think the doctors could have picked another time, and a broader range of issues, to make their stand.
@ David
I always thought that good governance included government’s adherence to existing laws. If requiring the government to abide by the law is deemed partisan then I am guilty.
Ironically after labeling my comments partisan you posted:
‘Peter Wickham is currently hosting his show on CBC and has taken full aim at the doctors with a swipe at the lawyers.’
Pray tell what makes my post partisan and the comments of Mr.Wickham and his good friend the Chairman of the Board non-partisan.?
Dr Nicholson is mistaken in his interpretation of the contracts. It is not that there is a contract and yet the doctors are dismissable at will or pleasure. But the terms of the contract simply provide for the method of termination; i.e. by three months’ notice or one month’spayment in lieu of such notice. This also holds true if the doctor wants to terminate because he has had a better offer, for example.
Currently, in Barbados, there is no need to give a reason for termination of a private contract, unless this is a specific provision of the contract. The major issue, of course, is whether the doctors are employed under a purely private contract or a private contract imbued with public law elements.
All this will change with the passage of the Employment Rights Bill and the introduction of the concept of unfair dismissal which compels an employer to give a valid reason for dismissal.
@David, A good precent of regional essential services legislation is the Essential Services Act 2008 of Antigua & Barbuda.
Brutus Sir
If the Government had done their job and listened to the caring advice given them in early 2008, even in a recession, much of the issues could be corrected by now.
TOO MUCH EMPHASIS IS PUT ON THE HOSPITAL.
The aim ought to keep folk from hospital
The aim ought to decentralize as much care offered in hospital as possible .
Attempts to do this were made by Prof E R Walrond in the 70′s Wonder who stopped it?
If efforts had been made to sort out at least the South ( St John St George St Philip & Ch Ch ) significant inroads could already have been made!
But I will say no more.ported a Hospital Director to quote my ideas, and the Mighty BT does not even think I am worthy of being brought home to serve in any capacity. LOL
CCC & WIV desperate for something to make the DLP look good in health, before the next election. But they will have to get BT to tell them what to do. LOL
Instead of cussing me and taking about firing the doctors BU bovine excretors should be suggesting and thinking up ideas for improving over all health system in Bim. But can they?
What ideas are the MPH nurses and doctors offering? What plans dop they have if any? What can the CMO and her staff offer CCC and WIV? What can the super brainiac BT submit, besides INTIIMIDATION & FIRING & REPLACING HOSPITAL DOCTORS ?
Why cant we have a great debate….for a change.
@Jeff Cumberbatch,
Thanks for your explanation.
What would be the implication of “public law elements” being read into the contract?
Can you explain the point that Dr. Nicholson is making here re internal dissonance:
______________________________
The chairman of the board is quoted, in the same article, as saying that under the terms of the contracts offered to consultants by the QEH, the board “may at any time determine the engagement [read ‘contract’] of the employee on giving three months notice in writing to that effect or on paying him one month’s salary”.
There appears to be an internal dissonance in that statement. The first half quite obviously refers to a “contract” between employer and employee, whereas the second is an “engagement” [if one does not wish to be disingenuous] in which the employee accepts “employment at will”.
To put it another way, the employee has demonstrated a “willingness to work” and her or his employment can be terminated without notice and without need for explanation on either side. She or he has no “contractual obligation” to or from the employer.
I find it strange that anyone would sign a contract written so as to hold such apparently conflicting clauses.
@Enuff
BU never ascribed any label to Wickham’s position.
@Jeff
Thanks for summing up the issue for the family.
@Georgie Porgie,
Starcom is reporting that the strike has been called off, after intervention of the Minister. The Minister instructed the Board Chairman to meet with BAMP, but the pre-condition for this was that the doctors return to work.
Now, you made some good points in your last post, and hopefully bloggers can call a truce on this matter as well and stick to constructive comments so that we can have a great debate as you said.
@ Brutus
If thecourt were to find that there are “public law elements” in the contract, then the employer would be obliged to observe the principles of natural justice; essentially, to give the employee a hearing before dismissal.
The “dissonance” to which Nicholson refers is that he cannot see how one can have a binding contract of employment and yet be dismissed without being given a reason therefor, so long as sufficient notice of termination is given.
Dissonant it may be, but that is the law! The contractual obligations of each party are determined by the terms of the contract.
Autocratic summary firings in the absence of documented (as opposed to well-rumoured) gross misconduct will only be tolerable if staff trust in management is extremely high.
I doubt that this is the case at QEH; as such, a transparent, mutually acceptable structure for dealing with misconduct and nonperformance is urgently required.
Attempting to improve matters by summary firings of the most unpopular doctors isn’t really a sensible way to proceed. It doesn’t really solve the problem.
The absence of a satisfactory systematic performance assessment structure is a comfort only to non-performers. It doesn’t protect satisfactory doctors from ad-hoc random termination.
The current system of contract renewal (every one to three years, usually yearly) without real job security is generally satisfactory to naïve recent graduates, but becomes less and less satisfactory as doctors grow older, marry, and acquire children and mortgages. Unless they create their own job security through political allegiance, whether party politics or institutional politics.
This rhetoric about taking people (e.g. doctors) down a peg is not good for any sector, particularly not a vital sector like health. It plays into people’s angers, fears, frustrations and resentments, but it fundamentally makes things worse rather than better. Administrators should be looking for mutually satisfactory ways forward, not seeking to disenfranchise the good with the bad.
It is time that Bajans demanded more— but did so while recognising that the doctors have real, valid grievances that should be heard and addressed. It’s not right that every time the doctors complain, people accuse them of greed. People study and slave for years to make higher salaries, only to be bitterly resented for it, it seems.
I mean— they’re not even asking for money! How sensible is it to accuse a man of greed when all he’s asking is that you follow a standard, transparent, appropriate procedure when firing staff?
I am not denying the presence of misconduct, only asking that misconduct be addressed by administration in an open, fair, transparent, and well-structured way, without falling into class resentment or stereotyping/ demonising people because of their job.
@Jeff
We have to assume that it would work both ways? i.e when a doctor seeks to terminate a contract
@Another Doctor
You have made good points but it brings into question the role of BAMP and its effectiveness through the years. We have had two doctors who performed the role as Minister of Health. No significant changes occurred under their tenure.
@Jeff Cumberbatch – thanks again for the clarification. Hopefully a Board of Directors led by a priest also respects the principal of natural justice, whether or not it is contractually or legally required.
@Another Doctor – your points are very well made.
@Jeff Cumberbatch,
Under the Employment Rights Bill will an employer have to give a reason for dismissal, even if proper notice is given? It seems to me that we would still have “dissonance” if the employee may terminate the employment contract at any time with proper notice but the employer would only be able to terminate with proper reasons. This is the point raised by David.
@ David,
Yes, as I said at the end of the first paragraph at 12:21.
@Brutus,
Yes, after the ERA becomes law, a qualified employee will have the right not to be unfairly dismissed, even if his dismissal is in accordance with the contract of employment. You are correct on your final point about “dissonance”.
@Jeff
Do you know what is the status of the ERB?
Let’s cut to chase, shall we? All this talk about a patient centered hospital is just a concocted cover for what is really the provision of jobs for the “boys” or “girls” as the case may be. Looking into my crystal ball I note that two more consultants are to be terminated. One an Indian doctor who handles chemotherapy. Another is an ordinary Jones of a doctor.
@David
Essentially the problem is larger than any one office, whether that office be the BAMP office, or the office of the Hospital Director, or the office of the Head of the Board.
The problem lies in the very structure of health care delivery in Barbados. A charismatic leader may be able to rally the troops to better performance despite the problems, but the trend has been for administrators to try to improve problems via making heads roll, and that will never work.
When the basic problem is that you don’t have what you need to work and don’t have enough time to do a proper job, you can conceivably be inspired to bring supplies from home so you can perform to the demands of your conscience; but you can never be bullied into doing so by a hard-nosed manager.
Never.
I have borrowed money to buy equipment to carry to work and use because the government facilities’ equipment was scarce or non-functional. This allows me to move more quickly and see more patients. Do you think that increased levels of punitive firings around me would have inspired me to do the same?
Never.
And at the end of the day, if you ask for a fraction of what your colleagues elsewhere in the Caribbean are getting, what do you hear? Greedy doctors, “holding the country at ransom.” Blogs like this one parroting resentful accusations without bothering to investigate the basic facts.
It’s disheartening and demoralising. Frankly, when the rhetoric started floating around, I questioned my own naïve patriotism, and wondered whether I should have left when so many of my colleagues were doing so.
Clearly my patients and countrymen aren’t looking out for me, so I had better do a better job of looking out for myself!
Anyway, to return to the question at hand, what is needed is a (likely expensive) change in the structure of health care delivery, requiring a strong mandate from the people, through the Prime Minister, led by the Minister of Health, and delivered through senior administration at the QEH and in the distributed system in cooperation with medical, nursing, and other professional associations. No lone administrator can do it without a strong mandate. Certainly no doctor can do it; any request for increased staff or funding is perceived as greed or self-interest.
My own feeling is that the change in structure should involve an increased role for Nurse Practitioners, Medical Assistants, and Health Aides delivering distributed care to the communities; but that’s another discussion for another day.
David,
When last I had word, the Bill had just been through a “final” vetting by the Social Partnership. That was in June 2010.
I think that the fundamental imbalance of power between employer and employee is such that the employee SHOULD have more discretion to quit than the employer should have to fire him.
I don’t see that as “dissonance” at all!
@Another Doctor
Thanks for sharing your viewpoint.
To defend BU we have taken a provocative position in light of the failure of stakeholders over the years to resolve this matter. The health budget is significant as you know and the taxpayers deserve better.
It was the previous government who transitioned to Board of Management which was to be the panacea for all the problems that exist at the QEH. It remains a political nest and in our view therein lies the problem.
@David | August 17, 2010 at 1:07 PM
Re We have had two doctors who performed the role as Minister of Health. No significant changes occurred under their tenure.
You have been given the answer already.
NO WILL
NO VISION
NO PLAN
THE HEALTH CARE SYSTEM DOES NOT REVOLVE AROUND THE HOSPITAL BUT YET THE EMPHASIS CONTINUES TO BE PUT THERE.
The role of BAMP is not to be effective in setting or implementing Public Health Policy.
The Basic outline of the way forward has been given already It made sense to the people when delivered on BU. It even makes sense to the expatriate Administrator who is parroting what he learned from Donville, who got it in private lessons before the election. LOL
Brutus
Re Starcom is reporting that the strike has been called off, after intervention of the Minister. The Minister instructed the Board Chairman to meet with BAMP, but the pre-condition for this was that the doctors return to work.
What did you expect Sir. Donville has had to forgo his cruise (he reminds me of the BP executive…He wants back his life) and Maxy Balls the priest has learned that his testosterone is no match for BAMP balls and guts! You cant say I didn’t tell you LOL
Maxy Balls is no match for Ermine’s non balls! LOL
The sacerdotal misfit is ascertaining that as Another Dr opines “Attempting to improve matters by summary firings of the most unpopular doctors isn’t really a sensible way to proceed. It doesn’t really solve the problem.
Of course I made some good points in my last post, I usually do! Its just that you guys didn’t agree with me in your various degrees of myopia and cataract. LOL
Don’t hold your breath about any constructive comments and any great debate on BU on this matter. You have seen the best of the BU crew. Fire the doctors and get new ones from Cuba is perhaps their top of the line suggestion.
It is written in the dispensational section of Romans “ How can they know except they have a teacher………..and how can one teach unless they be sent?”
There lies the crux of the matter! Ah lie?
Brutus
Let me hear you now. Thinking long term, how will you incorporate the education system and the church in a plan for the future improvement of Health in Barbados?
David
I am glad that you have learned from Another Doctor that the doctors really have a problem with the Board and Government, and that it is not a case of incompetent doctors or a medical mafia or Csars seeking to take over.
The previous Government did a lot of nonsense. And now the DLP trying intimidation ! While at the same time they are not addressing certain simple things that they can do to alleviate the problem
As you say “It was the previous government who transitioned to Board of Management which was to be the panacea for all the problems that exist at the QEH. It remains a political nest and in our view therein lies the problem.” Now you getting to the heart of the matter.
Lets start with the South David.
What suggestions you have for making things better for the health of the poor people in the South?
CCC and WIV and thos of that persuasion will finish a clinic at Gall Hill at the wrong location . What does the BU household say?
Anonymous you seem to understand what is going down!
Let’s cut to chase, shall we? All this talk about a patient centered hospital is just a concocted cover for what is really the provision of jobs for the “boys” or “girls” as the case may be. Looking into my crystal ball I note that two more consultants are to be terminated. One an Indian doctor who handles chemotherapy. Another is an ordinary Jones of a doctor.
A few months ago it was Brian Charles
Now its Emptage and Ram Rat
Then the Oncologist & Jones
Who next?
Has BAMP nipped them in the bud?
@GP
BU is onboard with your recommendations of 2008 but the issues at the QEH seem to transcend your proposal at this point i.e building the right culture to promote the correct synergy between stakeholders.
GP
Looking into my crystal ball I saw poor Rambarat being dismissed by the board. He was asking for the reason for this decision. The board told him that it doesn’t have to give him a reason. Then the ball clouded up but not before telling me to look for a urologist from Washington that has been promised Emptage’s position.
BAMP knows that the terms of the contract allows the Board to dismiss a doctor and that the issue is jobs for the boys but how do they communicate that to the public?
David
building the right culture to promote the correct synergy between stakeholders starts in the periphery in the schools and the churches and everywhere DONT GO TO A&E AND LEST SENT DIRECTLY BY YOUR GP OR POLYCLINIC DR OR YOU ARE TAKEN BY THE AMBULANCE WITH A REAL EMERGENCY
THE DAYS ARE LONG GONE WHEN THERE WERE FEW DOCTORS AND NO POLYCLINICS AND ONLY HAD CAUALTY.
THIS COSTS NOTHING MUCH TO IMPLEMENT EVEN IN A RECESSION
Are you with me on that one David.
Stop dwelling on the Hospital for a while.
Engage in massive Health Education by disseminating information such as we have been doing on BU Do it in the schools and churches (like the SDA’s do) and here and there and everywhere. in the constituency councils.
TAKE THE LOAD OFF THE QEH
THESE ARE SIMPLE THINGS THAT CAN BE DONE IN A RECESSION FOR NEGLIBLE COST.
DIDNT YOU ALL SAY IT WAS PATIENT CENTRIC OR PEOPLE CENTRIC
DONT LET ALL THE YOUNGSTERS GO AWAY OR INTO PTRIVATE PRACTICE GIVE THEM INCENTIVRES TO PARTICIPATE IN THE PUBLIC HEALTH
Anonymous its a good thing you are Anonymous or Maxy balls would come to squeeze your balls too He would try to intimidate you. You knowe too much and saying too much LOL
You LETTING THE BALLS OUT OF THE SCROTUM! ROTFLMAO Murdah!
David
Get the priest to hire the Consulting firm started by HANTS!
Its called KEEP BALLS IN PANTS INTERNATIONAL! LOL He promised me a liklle pick. But dont let BT know that dem give me wuk LOL
David
Hants say he will give you the advertising revenue that would normally go to the Nation & The Advocate now. How a sound.
We might do a few spots pun CBC starring Bonny Peppa !
Word it talks started today at the behest of the Minister have broken down between the two sides.
Intelligent agent inform that in Barbados major disagreement only get settle when involvement of PRIME Minister … not even acting PM do job .. no ? So whole thing get put on hold until Top gun return to office … no?
Comrade Georgie;
You have fullest support of East … NOT.. ! No see where Doctor hiding ball … No see ball in action, no see ball in talk, no see ball in plan … nope … no ball, at all … no?
I thought Mrs. Irene Sandiford Garner had responsible for the QEH. Is she hiding.
Apparently the board get vex and leff’ de negotiating table when BAMP mention that their paid media ads are booked, pending, and unretractable.
Apparently when the board bad-talk doctors it is fine, but even the idea of doctors having an ad is offensive…
BTW, I am hereby closing ranks as GP predicted. I tired o’ being foolish, hear? I broke strike to see patients an’ I get cuss out for my trouble. Patients vex’ an’ treating doctors and nurses like dirt.
I done.
I blame irresponsible bloggers like BU.
@Anonymous & GP.
Well, cat out the bag. My sandylane man tell me, its not everyting yuh must talk. People think doctors getting plenty money, nobody talking about bankers with all expenses paid plus mortgages, and the lawyers getting X0,000 for signing name to computer generated forms.
Docs have peoples hearts, lungs, bladder etc, in their hand, you cannot get that learning in 3 years at cavehill.
@another doctor – yuh making sense from nonsense. teach Nicholson some sense.
Dr.Carlos Chase balls must be split in two or four?, how can he talk about poor job performance, then be the man union leader. I hope his balls not touching, or else Maxy balls going to lose his or make sure Chase balls go down the chase vault. Me, I staying with the obeah man. LOL
@Another Doctor
Are you for real?
You were making sense until you inserted the comment that you are blaming irresponsible bloggers like BU. Was BU around in the last 20 years? Who did you blame then? BU like many believe there is enough blame to go around.
There is a piece by David Commisiong on Page 9 of Barbadostoday.bb which makes for good reading.
@ GP, It look like I betta stay up hey in Canader until we new corprashun mek enuff money to pay fuh Air Ambalance.
Uh gine hey to muh client so uh cant stop pun de blog.
Got to mek dah Air Ambalance money fuh muh nex trip to Babadus.
My intelligent agent acting on best information available inform that only ONE or two person is voting in favour of doctors on blog … I repeat, ONE person is voting in favour of Doctors on blog, in the repeat … So two survey poll NOT SHOW ACCURATE RESULT …! True result even more anti-doctor than poll suggest … no? Intelligent agent suggest that some one most ashamed that dictor (the English) not very popular … no?
Hants
Don’t worry wid buying de air ambulance yet. We will rent one as needed for those who can pay for it up front. See if you can find a pick fuh BAFBFP the Chinee man. That will keep he off the blog talking so much bovine excrement. He like he deteriorate sence he turn Chinee.
Mr David Sir
I agree with you about David Commisiong’ article on Barbadostoday.bb The only one on that board that knows anything about medicine is Irvine Brancker.
But I warning you Sir. Dont be talking to Another Doctor like if you are Maximus balls OK? Or you will have to deal with GP not BAMP! LOL. Murdah!
Have you banned WIV & CCC and the other know it all idiot? They have not been trying to defend the indefensible recently, man.
The docs ease up pun de strikle and the Board pick up their bat and ball and go home because BAMP run and ad that seeks to enlighten the Public to the background of their action.
Is the Board a dictatorship? or is it led by a dictator?
HERE is the paid announcement by BAMP.
There must be more than what is being reported. The Board appeared on CBC and publicised its position; BAMP is entitled to do the same. BU has stated that the Board has been winning the PR war. The bottomline is that the public is frustrated and don’t care so much about the technical aspects of the arguments. On the flip side BAMP must be concerned as a trade union with the technical.
Oh what a mess!
Browngal
Your sandylane is right to a point! its not everyting yuh must talk but some times you have to let the cat out of the bag or the balls out of the pants into the public
The ad by BAMP in today’s paper exposes that the priest has “balls “ tissue in his brain, not brain tissue! The man is clearly not a mere clown, he is a whole circus. He now knows that his “guts” & “balls” is no match for BAMP balls and Ermine’s oestrogens! LOL Murdah.
Another doctor knows what he is talking about it because he is there in the thick of things. He is experiencing what the irate irrational ignorant populace are not experiencing. When you study hard for 5 years and then some more, you want to know that your pick secure. No one is defending poor performers, but folk are worried if they could be treated with similar lack of decorum and protociol.
Now a common sense ploy would have been to let Ramrat finish his contract and terminate him then. No one would have sneezed if his contract was terminated then. That is called TACT! If he had done this the priest would have his balls INTACT!
I suggest to you that as a Rhodes scholar that George Nicholson does not need teaching any sense. He is a very brilliant person and a fair person!
Again you miss the point about Dr.Carlos Chase. Read the information that came out again. He might have spoken about poor job performance, since BAMP would have dealt with this internally and made recommendations to the Board (of medical illiterates except for Irvine). That his prerogative as a BAMP official. BAMP will deal with its members and discipline them as needed- not a silly priest and a band of political appointees who knoweth not a thermometer from a sphygmonometer.
As the man union leader, he is wearing another hat to ensure that the silly priest and a band of political appointees who knoweth not a thermometer from a sphygmonometer.
runneth not roughshod all over BAMP members, because the testosterone produced by the balls” tissue in the priests brain has reached extremely high levels.
Be assured of one thing my dear brown gal, Maxy balls can not touch Chase or any BAMP member unless BAMP allows it! Ask your obeah man if that aint true. LOL.
I agree with Commissiong that the Board should be operating at the level of policy only, and not getting involved in day-to-day managing. I also agree that the Minister could have done a lot better in selecting the members of the Board.
The Chairman of the Board should be dismissed immediately, because through his public utterances he is only fanning the flames and making the matter worse. He has proven that he needs to be as far away from the negotiations as he can possibly be and the Minister needs to get rid of him before he causes further embarrassment. Of course the Minister has already expressed total confidence in the Chairman, so we may have to call the Minister’s judgment into question too. I am assuming of course that the Chairman was not speaking out on the instructions of the Minister or with the Minister’s prior knowledge.
Another doctor
Re when the board bad-talk doctors it is fine
Of course! Bajans like to bad talk doctors till they sick. Doctors are supposed to be rich and affluent and elitest. Bajans hate that—even though, they themselves would love to be be rich and affluent and elite! They don’t know that most doctors would just love to be private citizens, and not have to fit into moulds into which they may be put at anytime.
Re the idea of doctors having an ad is offensive…
Of course! It brings out the truth! It brings some light to the people.
The priest is one of those well described in John 3:19-21
19. And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
21. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
In the face of the LIGHT OF THE TRUTH being revealed , he knew that his STUPID PRIDE AND ARROGANCE WOULD BE THREATENED AND THAT HIS “GUTS” WOULD BE SHOWN TO BE JUST AIR! In the face of the LIGHT OF THE TRUTH being revealed , he knew that his BALLS WOULD BE SQUEEZED!
Apparently, they did not realize when they left the table that since BAMP’s paid media ads were booked, pending, and unretractable that their action would just make them look stupid stupid stupid!
Re Patients treating doctors and nurses like dirt. THAT HAS BEEN GOING ON SINCE THE mid 90’s. Influenced my decision to go teach abroad.
David
Could you possibly put the BAMP statement in a word document or in a fashion that it can be cut and pasted, so that it can be explained to any that cant understand what is happening?
Doctors are fighting for their future job security and livelihood. I can understand thier situation. It happened to me. I was not in BAMP . ASfter a tough divorce I was fighting back and had just occupied a new house. I had to sell it!
This sort of stuff must not happen to others!
@David – is there more than one “Another doctor”?
This is an opportunity for BU to expose another politically appointed Board. Does anyone know the professional background and political ties of the Board members?
According to Commissiong’s piece they are:
Chairman – Rev. Guy Hewitt
Deputy – Francis De Peiza
Cardinal Fenty
Lisa Niles
Natasha Small
Junior Allsopp
Lawrence Clarke
Dr. Irvine Brancker
News is the strike is off again.
Brutus my friend
I think you are beginning to get the picture.
You can now see that there was more in the mortar than the pestle.
Maximus balls failed to see that he is not dealing with his docile church members, or his fellow mendicants on his board.
Irvine has always been a very quiet person from boy days. He is not one like yours truly, who would have told this silly sacerdote that he was a moron and so mentally challenged that even Ermine Belle (the psychiatrist) could not cure him.
AS A BAMP LEADER SHE HAS SQUEEZED HIS BALLS THOUGH!
I wonder if WIV and CCC & HH or BT can tell us how a PART TIME BOARD OF IDIOTS WHO KNOW NOTHING ABOUT MEDICINE CAN RUN A HOSPITAL WITH THE EXTENSIVE BUDGET SET ASIDE TO DO SO.
CLEARLY THIS LOFTY ASSIGNMENT HAS GONE TO THE CHAIRMAN’s HEAD (where apparently his balls are also located!)
Not only is he not fit for administrtion in the Hospital, it seems that he has not completed relevant studies in CHURCH LEADERSHIP OR CHURCH ADMINISTRATION!
@Brutus
It appears so from where we sit.
All of those who have had to have surgeries performed by doctors who have QEH consultancies know that as soon as you pay your money (to them) the date of surgery is quickly scheduled and surgery performed. The following statement is therefore bovine excrement:
On behalf of me from East and my intelligent agent that I speak for I must establish no? that I retain right to DISAGREE with Dr. Porgie, if not in substance of argument, but most certainly in ATTITUDE and APPROACH … ! It is approach and attitude that land many many citizen in deep bovine mess during Cultural Revolution, for it is ATTITUDE and APPROACH that make people with weapon do excrement..! So for purpose of this discussion and this discussion alone, long time ally will be call Dr. Bovine Experience, for in climate where good public face is requirement, bovine experience not good thing… no? This not good at all… no?
It seems that my Chinnee ally is engaging in semantics but you can fairly call me Dr. Bovine Experience since that was exactly the experience I had with the Min of Health in BLP guvment
Chinnee ally must agree though that Chairman of the board used wrong ATTITUDE and APPROACH with doctors and that make people with weapon respond. LOL
David
Note well
This is what happened in my time. Perhaps it is still the case.
There seemed to be a certain amount of time for the heavy guns to operate on thier patients, so their patients went on the list first- naturally. You get what you pay for!
Often time because the Hospital had not procurred enough FULL TIME anaesthethic staff , the half day or part time staff would leave at 1 or 2 (which is more than half day.) Sometimes other things would cause cases to be cancelled for the day and postponed.
Regardless to who the big guns operate on DOCTORS & MEDICAL STUDENTS LEARN FROM THIER APPEARNCES!
DONT YOU THINLLTHAT ONE OF THE BIG ISSUES HERE IS LACK OF ANAESTHETHISTS STAFF?
Come gain Davey Every time I will show you where provision has been lacking for the doctors to execute!
I can tell you of one emminent surgeon, noe retired that cant be rich through surgery. I sent all of my polyclinic referrals to him whether publically or privately. If ythey could not pay for the operation THEY WENT ON THE LIST AS A PRIVATE PATIENT AT NO COST.
So all doctors are not hungry ravenous dogs as you guys thinking.
I want you to fire ALL the senior doctors and see what you will have!
ONE OF THE ISSUES IN THIS STRIKE IS THAT CERTAIN DLP LACKEYS WHO DONT WANT TO WORK IN THE USA ANY MORE BECAUSE OBAMACARE DESTROYING THE DOCTORS INCOME…NOW WANT TO COME HOME!
SO DOCTORS HAVE TO BE DISPLACED TO PLACE THEM.
THEY NOT COMING BACK AS SENIOR JUNIOR DOCTORS OR AS UNIOR DOCTORS. THEY WANT PRIME SPOTS!
This is part of the problem Davey/
It seems that there are more PUBLIC PATIENTS THAN BEFORE TOO BECAUSE THE POPULACE CHOOSE TO BE PUBLIC PATIENTS
That should be PRIVATE PATIENTS
Since the middle 70′s when all the specialists became increaingly available, because of the expansion of UWI medical school THE BAJAN PUBLIC HAVE BEEN INCREASINKY RUSHING TO THE SPECIALISTS! So what do you expect thirty plus years later? MORE PRIVATE PATIENTS ON THE PRIVATE LIST THAN EVER BEFORE. But there is no increase in facilities or staff to handle the general public.
It seems Doc GP is pulling out all the stops and has resorted to psychological warfare to help his side in the current QEH/BAMP impasse. Check this LINK out.
Not at all David. Just having some fun, man.
In slide 2 one can see that BAMP has reduced his “balls” to half their normal size.
Slide 3 shows the normal histologu of the testis. It appears that the Chairman’s brain has lots of these cells too.
Slide 4 shows what his testicular apparatus looks like now.
Since his brains also had ectopic testicular tissue accounting for his “balls” and tendency to go BALL-istic . One expects that his “balls” cells in his brains now looks like those in slide 4.
Slide 6 indicates that the major factor in hios debalsing is PROLONGED ADMINISTRATION OF ESTROGENS FROM ERMINE
Her estrogens TOTALLY emasculated his balls by squeezing them down to half size.
Slides 8 & 9 indicates that his brains might not be alltogether right either.
AS THEY SAY A PICTURE IS WORTH A THOUSAND WORDS
David
Look again at the slides Sir
I am mot in psychology or psychiatry
I am interested in PATHOLOGY as clearly indicated.
We were told that the Chairman has “balls” and “guts”. All I have done in five minutes or less is to show you how the pathology that resulted when the psychiatrist squeezed Hewitt’s balls and racked his pea sized brains!
Ranting by doctor serve no purpose … Small island suffer at hand of academic clique for whom system work very well …! Whether B or D process continue and it seem doctor feel just cause for Pomposity … We in East respect greatly activity that earn US for country and look with scorn on citizen who enjoy process that hold whole population in visor, and use population as source of importance on world stage … No ball in such activity, no ball in doctor effort at disgrace of board … no ball at all …no? If doctor develop plan that be very very good thing for doctor very good at seeing end game … no? Where doctor fall down, very common in academic clique community, is doctor unableness at implement … no? Implementability take ball, real ball …no? Chastising from safe house far and away … no ball at tall …
David, you seem far too eager to dismiss and condemn what doctors have to say in the absence of proper evidence.
You said:
“All of those who have had to have surgeries performed by doctors who have QEH consultancies know that as soon as you pay your money (to them) the date of surgery is quickly scheduled and surgery performed. The following statement is therefore bovine excrement:
‘Private vs. Public: The endorsement by the CEO of the QEH that the ratio of the private to public patients undergoing elective surgery is satisfactory refutes the charges that surgery on public patients is being unduly delayed by Consultants. There would be a difference in the waiting lists due to the fact that there are considerably more public patients than there arc private patients.’”
David, why yuh gotta be so? What the doctor said (and GP explained) is completely true. The surgical consultants are given free operating theatre time for private patients in lieu of higher salaries. Private patients are far, far fewer in number than public patients. Private patients don’t suffer near the level of administrative mishaps that public patients do. Private patients pay for their own anaesthetists. Therefore private patients aren’t subject to the long delays that result from competition for public theatre time, administrative tangles, or shortage of public anaesthetists.
What part of that is bovine excrement, David?
From the very beginning of this post you have been exhibiting woeful, shameful bias against doctors. Don’t get me wrong, many doctors are a part of the problem, but they are seldom at the root of the problem— the root is usually a diseased system that allows wrongdoers to do their misdeeds.
As long as you engage in this irresponsible kneejerk negativity towards doctors and this unwillingness to root out the facts before casting judgement, you— like the poorly performing doctors, and the non-functioning administrators— will be part of the problem as well.
If you don’t like bovine excrement, stop typing it.
Chinee man not understand overseas Dr. He not understand that doctor not ranting, Doctor mocking men who initially say that Chairman has balls and guts and will change system with bull in china shop approach . Doctor predicted that such a ploy would not work.
Now overseas Doctor explain what happened to Chairman with so much balls and guts. Doctor give pictures to explain how psychiatrist & BAMP squeeze chairman with balls to half size.
Doctor show that ranting by BU posters and populace serve no purpose since BAMP will most likely continue to squeeze balls till they get proper contracts. irrational posters not firing all doctors today…notice? They have egg on face cause they jump gun and to conclusions.
Small island not suffer at hand of academic clique for whom system work very well … Small island suffer at hand of leaders in B or D who have no plans or will or wisdom to solve problem, and who only hire dummies in their party who not know how to fix problem but only know to drink from through.
Doctor have all right to laugh at process because men support man with guts and balls with no brain . Doctor have all right to laugh at process because guvment continue to hire men who can not do job for which they are hired but want to fire doctors who do their work so that they can bring party lackey.
Population held in visor because population is led by men who be square pegs in round holes who be dumb and only have guts and balls. Chastising from safe house far and away velly necessary to show people that Dems not know what they doing or Bees either. Doctor has right to chastise from safe house far and away. He has right to his opinion as every buddy else. No?
Board disgrace themselves by stupid acts, doctor not disgrace board. Doctor laugh at dumb board led by priest to run horsepital on part time basis. Doctor laugh cause it velley velley hilarious.
Anytime doctor given chance to implement doctor can implement.
GP I just get hey. Rememba our company policy. Do not give free information that can be used by Health care planners in Barbados.
Your freeness will continue to be regurgitated as their own or the expatriate they appoint.
We still have to find two( rhymes with rite) fellas to be our front men.
On a serious note, it is unfortunate that we Bajans cannot give respect where it is due and work together without all the hostillity.
I learned a lot from my late mother who died before she was 60. She used to go and wait at the QEH sometimes a whole day because we could not always afford a private doctor. She never complained because there were others in the queue like her .
Think on that.
David, any response to GP?
You said that the doctors’ claims were bovine excrement; the statement has been explained to you by GP.
I can vouch for its accuracy. Public patients get their procedures cancelled because of the structure of the system— a system that terribly frustrates the doctors who work within it. I certainly couldn’t have worked in surgery at QEH, it would have sent me round the bend.
Seriously, though, David, I’ve admired your work before, and I would love if you could expose some of the actual misdeeds of problematic doctors in the system, but you’d really do much better if you reined in that nasty anti-doctor bias and established facts before throwing accusations.
Basically the current system allows consultants set quantities of free operating time for their private patients, in lieu of higher wages. This operating time is not affected by the usual QEH messes and snafus, because it is essentially administered by the doctors themselves.
So in effect the efficiency of private operating procedures is ongoing silent testimony as to how well the system could be running if the doctors were actually running it!
But instead, the ignorant and the irresponsible couch it as evidence of misdeed.
If the administrators wanted the system changed, they just have to negotiate higher wages with the consultants, and end the perk of free operating time. The consultants would just do all their procedures at Bayview. But Hospital Management doesn’t want to do that, because they don’t actually want to pay the consultants any more money.
So they scapegoat others for the failures of the system, and the ignorant and incompetent fall for it, seemingly every time!
GP says:
“Anytime doctor given chance to implement doctor can implement.”
************************************************************
Based on your history GP, ‘anytime doctor meet challenge doctor pack up and run away – except when for new found blogging action….LOL
BTW
Generally, one is not GIVEN a chance to implement, one GRABS the opportunity, often against great odds, and with wise vision and bravery, MAKES it happen….. but then again here you are 20 years later crying over spilt milk because someone did not immediately endorse some idea you had about polyclinics and health….
Stick with the blogging and stay in Miami where you can remain safe, well hidden, and can bully your poor students into worshiping you… while cussing and insulting seed picking bloggers.
@ David
The Bushman was busy (tending the $millions LOL), but could not help but reflect how many of our highly educated doctors seem to have developed a super inflated vision of their own importance and status. Somewhat like politicians who take an oath to serve -especially the weak, sick and defenseless, – only to spend their time stroking and defending their own egos.
Back to an old Bush Tea issue.
Have you noticed how ironic it is that a body of such highly schooled, highly paid, medical academics have quickly resorted to strike action? Is strike action not the kind of early resort one would expect from sanitation workers, plantation workers, seed-picking bushmen and other lower paid workers who may be expected to lack the ability to properly articulate their issues?
One would have thought that BAMP would have been able to easily win this battle on the strength of pubic relations and intellectual content.
Having said that, The Chairman also seems to have lost his head and made aggressive public statements that are uncalled for…BT continue to blame UWI.
Man even BARVEN and the ZR people have been mounting intelligent sounding intellectual positions of late to represent their interest.
….but should we be surprised??
Not if the GP that we have come to know is any indication of the mindset of these scholars.
>When someone failed to do his wise Poly Clinic bidding. he get vex and gone to Miami….(on strike)
>Disagree with anything that he says and he will launch into a tirade or disappear for weeks…. and come back real acid
Whaloss!! BAMP like dum is just an organizational version of GP yuh. LOL.
@David,
I’ve read the piece by Commissiong, and I agree that it’s excellent.
In your eagerness to defend your blog, you seem to have misunderstood me. I do not claim that public ignorance is *all* your fault, and clearly the ignorance that precedes your existence is nothing to do with you.
I do stand firmly by my statement, though, that ill-researched, hasty accusations such as those that you made in the initial post and repeated later on, contribute to the state of national misconception on this issue. I read this blog because I do think that you mean well.
If you mean well, you shouldn’t create posts like the first. It plays into people’s fears without informing, and does nothing to inform— since most people will not read all the comments to see where your claims have been debunked.
Biased nonsense claims are why I don’t read BFP. Please don’t follow them down that road.
Me
Thanks for your two erudite explanations of the situation.
You may be new to BU. But understasnd that generally, posters totally disobey Jesus’s edict in John 7:24, which states JUDGE RIGHTEOUS JUDGEMENT & NOT BY THE APPEARANCE.
Commonly interpreted from its context YOU CAN NOT ADJUDICATE WITHOUT ALL THE FACTS.
Folk here are NOT really interested in TRUTH either. Most are just engaging in Bajan rum shop behavior, where facts, logic, substance is not necessarily a high priority.
Hants, I am taking your suggestion very seriously The hurtfull thing is that even in this time of recession all the polyclinics could have been adequately outfitted at a very low cost.
Your very high level of tolerance seems to have been inherited or/and aquired from your mother. I hope that she is resting in Paradise, and will soon appear at the glassy sea with the four and twenty elders, where the singing will be grandiose!
Truth be told BU finds it strange this on again off again strike action. Aren’t you reminded of when playing cricket in the village and unless you get to bat when you wanted you would pick up your ball or bat and finish everything? GP despite all you have said BAMP is yet to strike and the Chairman is still in the chair. There is more to this issue than meets the eye.
Seriously though, most private sector companies despite having trained HR practitioners resort to hiring HR consultants to beef up the negotiating skills required for resolution at the table. It is ridiculous to have people on the Board and BAMP who are not trained negotiators being asked to trash out this mess. There is too much at stake to send these unskilled people to the table. Some should not even be on the QEH Board. Going forward BU wants to recommend that 1 or 2 HR Consultants be part of the talks and in fact are retained on an all year round basis to grease dialogue between the several factions, ooops stakeholders at the QEH,
Yes BU has been hard on the doctors because they deserve it. Me, feel free to bring the other side of the argument as you see it. It is the only way to feed the public with information. Until you do we will continue to believe that the doctors are the Untouchables.
Actually, senior doctors and BAMP do work consistently behind the scenes. I have my own concerns that they don’t necessarily work to the best interest of junior doctors, but they do try to improve patient care.
I’m not sure if this really needs to be explained, but medical degrees don’t imply skill in negotiation or PR; there are legal and ethical issues involved with doctors blabbing to the newspapers about the difficulties of medical care; and all the intelligence and best will in the world can’t overcome administration who are fundamentally determined to take you down a peg.
Again, I am a junior doctor. I have my own issues with QEH consultants and with BAMP. But the idea that BAMP jumped suddenly to strike without prior negotiation is absurd.
@Another Doctor
There is a link at the top of the page labelled ‘Send Confidential Message’ use it to offer the BU family another view. So far BAMP has done a lousy job apprising the public of the challenges at QEH on an ongoing basis.
I dunno, David, you’re talking bullshit. You have repeatedly made statements with regard to the doctors that are either unfounded or false. I appreciate that you have your reasons, but at some point you as a reasonable man should be able to say “Maybe I have to rethink this”.
It’s not true that surgery delays are the doctors’ fault. It’s not true that the doctors are untouchable. I don’t even think it’s that the strike was on & off— that was a media mistake based on the state of acrimony at the end of the last meeting.
Going through your statements about doctors is a minefield of error and half-truth. I have deep issues with the institutions involved, but you are missing the mark.
This is not a defense of the doctors as such— this is me imploring you to get your damned criticisms right!
It isn’t true that BAMP has exploited power through the years. In fact, BAMP has been so toothless that doctors left in droves!
It’s not true that BAMP took action to protect a millionaire’s job. In fact, BAMP was only asking that the hospital follow proper procedure in firing him! Neither of the targeted doctors is popular, and had QEH followed the proper procedure, no-one would have even waved goodbye as they departed.
So it’s not a matter of whether anyone “deserves” criticism. It’s a matter of you not repeating emotionalistic twaddle. You can do better, so start.
@Me
You need to forgive BU because we have not been fortunate to have meeting minutes given to us, until we (public) get the information we will go with what we know. Remember where there is a void crap will usually fill it. It explains why the public has been anti-BAMP in recent days. You guys know the facts* but until the man in the collar went public Dr. Carlos Chase was loathed to talk to the media (appreciate the ethical issues). Hewitt smoked him out that much is evident.
Doctors are trained from the get-go to be discreet. Keep people’s secrets. Don’t rat on the consultant, he will get back at you. Don’t go to hospital management, they prefer to deal with consultants. Don’t go to the newspapers, it’s against the law for doctors to do so. (Don’t know if it’s true, but that’s what we’re told.)
And when you’re working 80+ hours a week, who has the time to be playing amateur journalist for people who are obviously biased against them? Most junior doctors just want to get through the day without making enemies or committing malpractice.
Calling most QEH junior doctors a privileged class is painfully wrong. QEH junior doctors are servants at the bottom of a pyramid, hoping to eventually reach the top; exhausted, depressed, and often hopeless. They don’t even make as much money as their fellow lawyer/ accountant professionals who work half as many hours!
The fact that they don’t have the writing skills to put exposé articles in your hand and do your work for you is no excuse for spouting derogatory untruths, David. Man up, and stop.
I am quite happy to forgive BU, David. Not a problem. I know you guys try to do good work here…
Me
You be person voting in survey on repeat … no?
By and way you say “Hospital Management doesn’t .. actually want to pay the consultants any more money.” My atheist god, citizen, small island not have problem with supply of cash? Maybe small island better if consultants work in North and remit fund to family at home, rather than get cashy at home only to convert to US and spend in North … no? Negotiate higher wages … ? With what … big rock?
Dr Bovine
Yes incompetent Government, incompetent policy, incompetent board, incompetent priest, incompetent party so maybe they all leave too and go to North … no? But when you study, you must see incompetent school, incompetent Central Bank, incompetent Social Security, incompetent union, incompetent commerce chamber, incompetent bank, incompetent media house, incompetent blog … Maybe they leave and go to North too … no? Now you have company and maybe you come home and show competence … no? We have doctor run everything …
@Me
Can you list the names of the BAMP Executive? The list on the BAMP website is 2008-2009.
Are the members of BAMP Executive comprised in the main of junior or senior doctors? Just curious.
I think part of the issue with BAMP is that BAMP really doesn’t have anyone skilled in PR. The PR officer is a busy senior clinician elected to the position because she was willing to work hard, not for any particular PR skill.
Really, doctors tend not to care about PR. They foolishly tend to think that people will recognise that between doctors and administrators, that clearly doctors are the ones with their asses on the line every day, so people will at least remember that the “other side” might not be offering pure Gospel Truth.
Book sense ain’ common sense.
And as GP said, doctors don’t really strike often. The memories fade, and we assume we’ll have more support than we have.
Note the bitter tone that Another Doctor resorted to after dealing with bitter, angry patients— with the anger directed to the doctor who was actually working! Not really logical, but there you are.
@BAFBFP
I guess my point is that it’s hypocritical and dishonest to offer people tomatoes instead of money as payment because you’re broke, and then accuse them of stealing your tomatoes when they accept your offer.
If we’re going to offer consultants perks in lieu of higher salaries— and I’m not sure we should— we need to stop acting like they’re unethical monsters when they accept the perks offered.
Make sense?
@Me
Here is some advice, at the next BAMP general meeting discuss how BAMP can communicate better with the public. If in the profession the skill set does not exist buying the skill should not be a problem.
BAMP Executive
(all doctors)
President – Carlos Chase
1st VP – Areti Kumar
2nd VP – John Gill
Gen Sec – Gregory Walton
Asst Gen Sec – Abdon DaSilva
Treasurer – Haresh Thani
Asst Treasurer – Brian MacLachlan
PR Officer – Ermine Belle
Floor Members:
- Henry Fraser
- Michael Brown
- George Nicholson
- Ingrid Durrant
@David
I ain’ sayin’ nuffin’. Me give that advice to those fogies? And have them think that I arrogant and think I know better than them?
No bosie I too young and junior. Maybe when I like GP and got my job overseas already set out.
No junior QEH doctors on the executive AFAIK.
It is evident that from reading the various comments pro and con each side has made up their mind and has taken the attitude “dont confuse me with the facts”. However when all is said and done the patients are the loosers. Hopefully in the final analaysis The QEH would become a better hospital .People earing their grieviences is a good thing so that the public can get a better glimpse as to how certain aspects affect their lives negatively or positively in the medical arena. Generally after a storm what was destroyed becomes new.
@Me
Appreciate your feedback. The problem as we see it is the need for more information to leak into the public domain. Public sentiment can be a force. The QEH with all the factions is a hotbed of issues, the nurses, junior doctors, consultants, general workers, technicians, BAMP, NUPW etc. Who will show leadership? It seems the doctors given the years training and investment in education have a lot on the line. Time to step up!
Methinks that Me is pushing a good thing a bit too far.
No one (certainly not the Bush Man whose personal doctor is beyond reproach) is saying that doctors are bad people. The issue is that we seem to have developed a SYSTEM where the focus has become ‘money and ego’ as opposed to patient care and comfort.
Even Me in his reasonable contributions, continue to infer solutions of ‘paying consultants more money’ if we want things to work, and about how junior doctors work for ‘less than lawyers and accountants’. (first thing – lawyers don’t actually WORK….LOL)
We foolish citizens always thought that students choosing medicine as a career KNEW that it was hard, draining work. We foolishly thought that money was not the DRIVING reason for joining this profession… but helping those in need.
If the Board (what ever their limitations) are to take their role seriously of reforming the system so that poor people can get their operations more promptly; and if we DO NOT HAVE the money to pay consultants as they may expect (so wanna say) in the rich countries; and if we still wish to improve service to our citizens……
Can ME explain how such an impasse can be addressed short of bowing down to kiss the mighty consultants behinds?
If the Board is NOT to deal with (undisputed) non performers, what is Me saying – we must either print the money needed or accept the non performance?
With respect to the blog, all bloggers are asking is that if BAMP feels the need to jeopardize the very health and even life of citizens, then AT THE VERY LEAST tell us why we are asked to suffer so….
….tell us – so that if indeed the problem is the Board -we can cuss them instead. If the minister – likewise….etc.
But to say NOTHING to the public, and then put my mother’s life on the line – who in their right mind could expect anything but condemnation?
Me should have been selected as BAMP’s PRO, they would be in a much improved position….
@David
Unreasonable expectation. Step up HOW? The system has been deliberately engineered over the past few years to give the doctors less power, because of sentiments (like those you expressed) that the doctors are untouchable.
The current deliberate administrative is to make sure that the doctors CANNOT “step up”.
Cut off a man foot and then cuss he for not running?
@ME & Another Doctor
BTW there is the impression being given that BAMP is representing mainly junior doctors. Is this correct?
Public relation like plaster over sore … no? No point in PR anyway, not even Patrick Gollop (ha ha) … for all skill on island incompetent … except doctor skill … no? Henry Fraser big mout doctor … no? very very big mout doctor … Maybe Great White do job … I view backlash from public on plane to China … no?
No no ac;
This not fight for decent young virgin filly, this fight for Ball stomper… no?
@Bush Tea
You misdiagnose the system. The problem is not a focus on “money and power” for most doctors. It is this misconception that I’ve been trying to refute. The public system is money-starved, and deliberately structured to deny doctors power.
The problem is an adversarial bureaucratic system that renders good performance either irrelevant or impossible much of the time.
People spend too much time resenting other people’s money. If a doctor is focussed on doing good work, I don’t care if they also want to make money. I have been trying to clarify that doctors don’t make as much money as people think, compared to some others who study for similar periods but work much shorter hours.
You misrepresent me. I did NOT infer a “solution” of paying consultants more money. What I said was that SINCE the current system offers perks in lieu of higher pay, that it’s hypocritical to accuse senior staff of misconduct when they take the perks formally offered by their contracts, particularly when we fail to similarly criticise those who offered the contracts in question.
Money is the driving reason for many professionals studying. I don’t really approve of that, but facts are facts. That doesn’t have to stand in the way of those professionals doing good work.
If the board wants to attract and retain good doctors, the best way of doing so is neither more money nor more perks, but job autonomy and job satisfaction. Money and perks are merely stop-gap temporary sub-optimal patchwork semi-solutions in the context of consistent refusal to offer job autonomy, and failure to offer job satisfaction.
I heartily agree that BAMP should have made their position more clear, and I will stand in unity with anyone who makes that criticism. However, that doesn’t make unfounded, sensationalist accusations any less inappropriate. If we aren’t being provided with appropriate information, we should demand info loudly, not make stories up out of thin air.
@David,
BAMP represents most senior doctors and some junior doctors.
NUPW represents many junior doctors. I don’t think many (if any) senior doctors have joined NUPW.
Interesting the above.
BU took a provocative position and honestly don’t regret it. It was the only way to crack this nut. Look at the information on this blog which is gushing forth? At least BU did not accuse the docs of mafia moves…lol. There is nothing like a collar!
@Me
Bring it home now, where are we in the negotiations? Are you guys close or at resolution? What is the sentiment amongst your colleagues?
David
The Doctors speak in English not Latin.
If Rev Balls cant understand what he was told it is not the doctors fault.
I am sure he understands now that he can not stamp over the doctors. Because they have only gone on stike twice in 31 years does not mean that they cant. They have the power to run Rev Balls ragged, and they will if he does not REPENT! LOL.
LOL
No new info on the negotiation. I probably wouldn’t tell if I knew, but I honestly don’t know.
ADVICE: You’d get far more info, and from people more connected than I, if you maintained a personal stance of integrity and interest in the facts. I’m more verbally outspoken than most. The kinds of positions you take utterly drive away most of your potential sources of info on this issue. Doctors don’t speak out more because there seem to be no impartial ears.
The “Mafia moves” comment was a symptom of a larger problem. It was crazy to make that kind of adversarial comment in the middle of negotiations. But then the firings themselves didn’t make sense to me. I can only guess they thought that the doctors in question were so unpopular that proper process wasn’t necessary?
@Me
Let us understand what you are saying.
You believe that your colleagues would prefer to keep their mouths shut rather than clarify misinformation as they see it?
No.
I believe that medicine in general, and BAMP in particular, is a conservative hierarchy that doesn’t take well to criticism from juniors.
Me
My family is interested in term “job autonomy”. You must write slowly, I not read very fast …!
@ Dr Me
Have you done the ECFMG exams?
If not you ought to do so, and come to US and do a residency
This gives you the opportunity to work all over the world.
Eveyone seems to like these qualifications.
I was patriotic and failed to come and do a residency. Instead I stayed at home and worked in all lsorts of gigs including working for peanuts in the early eighties in the hope of getting the St Joselph’s A& E going.
From your comments, I see that NOTHING has changed for the better of junior doctors in the last 30 years, They are still treated like dirt by Consultants the QEH Admin and the general public.
And David BAMP does not waste time discussion such mundane matters as communicating with the public. Doctors must communicate and TEACH (doctor Latin docere) their patients. They dont have to tell the public their problems.
Dr Me BU is ccertainly NOT the place to do this. Men here dont get facts straight, they tend to twist your words and spit them back at you with venom and malice and loathing! But you might have noted that already.
They do not really listen. They do not and can not and will not understand the lot of the junior doctor. They have not experienced it. It is beyond thier comprehension.
David you are adjudicating without the facts. When I have tried to explain what is happening behind the scenes I have been mocked by the called BU family.
Re So far BAMP has done a lousy job apprising the public of the challenges at QEH on an ongoing basis.
Me or any doctor does not have to bring the other side of the argument to the public, especially when the Minister has said he wants no public statements on the matter.
Doctors are hired and contracted to treat patients. Doctors don’t have to tell the public of the challenges at QEH on an ongoing basis. They do have to work long grueling hours though.
The thing about the work is the overwhelming responsibility of making the wrong diagnosis or giving the wrong treatment. It is always a weight on your shoulders. Added to that is Hospital BS!
They do not necessarily have to feed the public with information, except Health Education. And you can believe that the doctors are the Untouchables, as much and as long as you feel like. Having heard the facts, your views have not really changed. Has it?
As Me has said , senior doctors and BAMP do work consistently behind the scenes to improve patient care, even if this is not generally known to the public. And some of them started in the mid 70’s taking health care to the health clinics as they were then. Who stopped them?
He is also correct in saying that the Seniors don’t . necessarily work to the best interest of junior doctors.
He is also correct in saying that, this does not really need to be explained, but there are indeed legal and ethical issues involved with doctors blabbing to the newspapers about the difficulties of medical care; and all the intelligence and best will in the world can’t overcome administration who are fundamentally determined to take you down a peg.
ALSO THE PUBLIC ARE ALSO ALWAYS WILLING TO TAKE YOU DOWN A PEG .
Dr Me I told them that “ the idea that BAMP jumped suddenly to strike without prior negotiation is absurd.” They don’t believe what you say They don’t care what you say. They just want something to twist, to return to taking you down a peg. They will continue to make made statements with regard to the doctors that are either unfounded or false.
Don’t hold your breath anticipating that they will rethink anything, even despite the information about the composition of the PART TIME board
@ BT
As usual Bush Tea, You come as usual adjudicating without the facts!
You know nothing about my history at all. NOTHING! THANK GOD!
I did not pack up and run away, I left to pursue the dream that I had when I went to Medical school. TO TEACH! When I got the chance to do so I grasped it and went as far as Rarotonga to do so, on one assignment. In the process I made stirling contributions to schools at which I taught, until forced to stay in the USA for immigration reasons.
Re Generally, one is not GIVEN a chance to implement, one GRABS the opportunity, often against great odds, and with wise vision and bravery, MAKES it happen…..
EXACTLY! That is what I did when as a youngster I wrote PM Adams, and after his death discussed with a certain government minister the details in the ER at the old St Joseph Hospital that caused us to run the NHS from the polyclinics rather than by the British system ..
In your incessant and perpetual desire to discredit and denigrate me, you swipe with eyes shut, totally out of position and type bull shit, because you know nothing about me, and my penchant for innovation, or steadfastness or hard work
Again you fail to stick to the facts, I am not at all crying about spilt milk because someone did not immediately endorse some idea I have about polyclinics and health…. RATHER
I AM MOCKING THE LACK OF A PLAN TO SOLVE HEALTH IN BARBADOS.
I AM MOCKING THE LACK OF VISION.
I AM MOCKING THE CHAOS AS EVINCED BY HAVING A PART TIME BOARD OF MEDICAL ILLITERATES TRYING TO RUN A HOSPITAL.
I want you to know that if someone adopts my ideas or not I WILL EAT EVERYDAY, and there will be peace in my home and in my heart, and I will have fun on BU when it suits me time permitting.
I am not LOSING ANYTHING BECAUSE MY IDEAS ARE NOT FOLLOWED ….THE BAJANS THAT YOU PRETEND TO CARE ABOUT LOSES AND THE GOVERNMENT CONTINUES TO LOOK STUPID!
I am not here waiting like some mendicant hoping that some one will listen and follow my instructions. But I will laugh and comment when the bandy it about, as if it was their novel idea, And I will mock as they blunder, in the bog of their brain death and bull in the china shop policies.
I WAS IN BARBADOS WHEN DONVILLE WAS APPOINTED MOH. I DID NOT RUN TO HIM CAP IN HAND BEGGING FOR WUK LIKE A MENDICANT. I HAD JUST WALKED AWAY FROM AN APPOINTMENT AS DEAN OF A NEW MEDICAL SCHOOL BECAUSE I DID NOT LIKE THE CONDITIONS. I NEEDED A JOB. BUT I DID NOT GO TO LICK HIS TAIL OR THAT OF ANY OF MY SEVERAL DLP BIG UPS FOR A JOB! OK?
So I am bery sorry if you think that I am here sorrowing because jackasses dont have the sense to understand the simple solutions I shered. I am sorry to dissapoint you.
And I don’t bully my students because I don’t need to, nor do they worship me, as you think . They do what they have to do and I do what I need to do. And I usually have good students. Nothing like the morons who post on BU with no substance, rhyme or reason. If they should chose to as they wish, I argue not. I just ask administration to adjudicate. Simple so! I dont suffer fools gladly. I set up simple protocols that are easy to follow for maximum results, and modify them with their reasonable feedback.
One is justified in staying safe in FL far away, safe, well hidden from those of your ilk! BUT MY GOD SEEEST ME!
Again if you can read no one has failed to do my wise Poly Clinic bidding, thereby causing me to flee. In 1985 they listened to me, and many have benefitted. …including politicians their wives and children and even lawyers and magistrates
I left Barbados in early 2002 because I was unemployed and I grasped an opportunity to do what I love to do best! TEACH
I have also made it clear on the thread that I DID NOT ONCE STRIKE on the two occasions when doctors chose to do so in my time.
The 2008 proposals were written down in early 2006 FIVE YEARS AFTER I HAD LAST LEFT HOME AND BECAUSE IT WAS CLEAR TO ME THAT THE DLP HAD A MEDICAL OR HEALTH MESSAGE
I WOULD THINK THAT THAT WAS A PATRIOTIC THING TO DO? Don’t you? I doubt your bias can allow you to see that. But God knows my heart!
I have the right to respond to morons and seed pickers as I think best .I blog when I like and only on those topics that appeal to me only.
Will you seek to intimidate me for that too, as you admit you would have done if you were the MOH?
You advocated that this silly sacerdote with “guts” and “balls” was going to change everything at the hospital with his “balls” and “bull in the china shop” approach. I warned that BAMP would close ranks…and they did JUST AS THEY HAVE THE RIGHT TO DO! They are humans like the rest of the society. And they have enough sense to know what Bajan people and their leaders understand
Why should highly trained educated men bow down to a moronic, medical illiterate on medical matters ESPECIALLY WHEN HE IS WRONG?”
Re One would have thought that BAMP would have been able to easily win this battle on the strength of pubic relations and intellectual content.
Only you would think so! Your Chairmen came with his “balls”: and “delusions of grandeur” bull in the china shop approach. The psychiatrist and her colleagues picked up the diagnosis quickly , and treated him appropriately. STAMPED ON HIM LIKE A COCK ROACH WITH THE CONTEMPT HE DESERVES!
And you and those of your ilk can say what you like, but Mr BALLS RUN STRAIGHT INTO A WALL JUST AS I PREDICTED. PRIESTS DON’T RUN HOSPITALS ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD, except in BARBADOS and maybe in Catholic Hospitals in the back woods somewhere!
Morons in the government understand strike. They don’t understand medical requirements, they don’t understand decency. They dont have or understand intellect. What intellect what? They are into power. Now they know!
Why don’t you grasp the opportunity to help the Minister and the Chairman. GRASP THIS CHANCE TO HELP! GO AND GIVE HIM PR LESSONS
YOU KNOW EVERYTHING or so you you think
SO SOLVE THE PROBLEMS
GIVE IDEAS OF HOW TO SOLVE THE PROBLEMS IN HEALTH AND HOSPITAL .
I did my part in 1985 and I sent the lessons to Donville long before he became Minister in 2008 What more do you want me to do?
I agree that the doctors have over a period of years not been very good at PR. However, how are they supposed to be critical of their public sector employers when as we have seen they could be so easily dismissed. Having said that, why is it that we have not seen this level of BAMP industrial activity recently, and it all came about once the QEH Board decided to terminate several doctors within a short period of time, with rumors that more are to go. The next step I predict is the QEH Board hiring trade union persons and public relation persons (all at taxpayer expense of course), to deal with BAMP. I don’t know what BAMP’s financial situation is but they can’t be as rich as the QEH . By the way, are thee BAMP President and PRO and other persons on their Board paid?
@ GP
‘Most are just engaging in Bajan rum shop behavior, where facts, logic, substance is not necessarily a high priority.’
Be careful GP, an approach that is inclusive of logic, facts, substance and practicality is deemed partisan, which is a subtle way of saying anti-government.
@ Me
‘I can only guess they thought that the doctors in question were so unpopular that proper process wasn’t necessary?’
I will say it again, the government has no respect for law, protocol or proper process. Only this week in Barbados there was a serious domestic dispute involving an individual who was wrongfully dismissed by the government. That dismissal appears to have contributed to the current mental and emotional state of the individual, which nearly led to a tragedy of great proportions.
@Micah
You’ve hit on it— most of the time the younger, angrier doctors are also the ones who are most vulnerable to retaliation by senior doctors, administration, and the public; and as we have seen, the public is only too eager to assume the worst about doctors.
Senior doctors are more secure, but also more comfortable, and more willing to wait twenty years for administration to address issues.
BAMP’s industrial activity was essentially forced on them by the Board’s behaviour in refusing to even address concerns and misrepresenting ongoing negotiations in a surprise public address.
Doctors here hate industrial action like poison. Between the workaholics, the do-gooders, those who fear for their reputation and those who fear a dent in their paycheck, doctors here are almost 100% comprised of people who hate to be away from their work unless it’s scheduled vacation— and sometimes not even then. We haven’t seen industrial action before because the Board hasn’t been quite this stupid before.
Note that the doctors’ concerns have yet to be properly addressed. We ended the strike once the Board agreed to negotiate.
Again, this is not to claim that there aren’t serious issues with the doctors at QEH; it’s just that the issues should be addressed in a fair, systematic fashion for widespread benefit, not by ad-hoc firings and slanderous public addresses.
I think that this will get worse before it gets better, though. The current contract system was put in place with the specific intention of allowing at-will firing, though it was only done sporadically. I fear that QEH administration will not react well to being blocked on this issue. They fundamentally have no real interest in creating a positive working environment, and they will struggle mightily to regain a whip hand.
I shouldn’t speculate as to BAMP’s finances, but we certainly couldn’t match QEH’s coffers.
As far as I know, BAMP’s board is unpaid. It’s prestigious volunteer work.
@Me,
Sometimes things have to get very bad before they get better – if that is the route we have to go then so be it.
Why do you say that the administration has “no real interest in creating a positive work environment”? That is a serious charge, and we would need to explore how to address that.
“… tend to twist your words and spit them back at you with venom and malice and loathing … It is beyond thier comprehension.”
Dr Bovine;
Seems to me that “venom and malice and loathing” stem from your camp … no? Man maybe it be style of address by you … If beggar spit on me, man I give beggar break… if doctor spit on me man I going for weapon … can’t say why, maybe human … no?
Clearly issue lie with treatment of junior doctor and contract with all doctor .. but contempt shown to public even if not part of plan is obvious by keeping mouth shut …!
Me and Enuf and Other say same thing as Dr Bovine, but my family agree that they be far better read … no? Man from East know that GP having fun, but maybe this very bad time to laugh at people from small island … Very very bad time …
If in East and Government say Consultant must go, Consultant gone … no return! Changing board in public WILL NO T HAPPEN either … no government will be disgrace like that because of pressure group, so negotiation will start with recognition of two non-negotiable upfront … no?
This question was asked before but under Dr Jerome Walcott why would we not have seen an improvement in the QEH IR environment?
David
Re This question was asked before but under Dr Jerome Walcott why would we not have seen an improvement in the QEH IR environment?
And I have given the answer already. HE AND HIS PARTY DID HAD HAVE EITHER THE WILL OR THE VISION. THEY HAD NO PLAN!
David
The previous Government had no WILL NO VISION NO PLAN
This Government has the will, but no plan or vision except to appoint a political priest with balls to control hospital, and a consultant from abroad who does not have a clue where to start.
By the way it is not the job of BAMP or the hospital doctors to change things because they don’t have the power to do so, and they are blocked by bungling administration any how.
The jokers over in the MOH such as the Chief Medical Officer and crew has lost the plot. There has not been anyone over there who has a vision since Vaughan Wells and Sir Maurice Byer, and men of that stature (you can include the late Dr Ramsay also in that lot!)
Now witness this scenario the Priest wants to improve say the working of the ENT Dept . What should he do David? I wont tell you because my business partner Hants advises not to give out any free information to an ungrateful BU audience.
Watch the priest though. He comes to the ward in his vestments for the season. He has his acolytes and they are swinging more incense than one used to see at St Paul’s in Pemberton’s time. They are carrying banners (with balls and guts printed thereon) and a crucifix and chanting Gregorian chants as the process with the rest of the Board looking piously on. The Minister is also there.
But there is a simpler and practical way, which no HOSPITAL ADMINISRATOR WILL COME UP WITH BECAUSE SUCH PRACTICAL THINGS ARE NOT TAUGHT IN UNIVERSITIES IN PhD programs.
I am sorry to mock, but what else can I do? Neither the priest or the consultant or the minister has a clue———-nor does the BU critics. Guess what ? There are going to be more frustration at the hospital as this crew continues to fail.
Chinee man
There is no reason for twisting peoples words. When I come here I don’t come to win arguments, I come to share information and facts. I will not change my style. OK
With respect to “venom and malice and loathing” stem from my camp … I will post a post directed at me for no reason at all.
Re Clearly issue lie with treatment of junior doctor and contract with all doctor ..
I am glad that you are willing to see that, rather than others have been doing, just supporting the stupid bullish priest and his ways. The man is such a dictator that he does not even think that BAMP should speak to the public via a paid advertisement in the press….even though he himself has presented his distorted view to the public on radio and television.
I don’t owe the Bajan public anything, because I paid more than my dues. So I will not keep my mouth shop, and every time a matter of this nature is raised on BU, I will MOCK them, as I comment. But following Hants advice, I will not be giving any more free advice I will let those who are paid continue drawing their pay while producing nothing.
I love to laugh Chinnee man, and I will laugh while I have breath and do so loudly/
So get use to it. For me, this is a good time to laugh.
Re If in East and Government say Consultant must go, Consultant gone … no return! If in East and Government say Consultant must go, Consultant gone … no return!
As we have pointed out from the beginning the issue is not about firing of two unpopular Consultants. Notice that BAMP did not react when Brian Charles was dismissed
You guys ought to carefully read what Me has said. He is on the spot, and can speak of the current state of decay. But not much has changed in 30 years in the way doctors are treated at the hospital.
AND THE HOSPITAL WILL NOT BE AS YOU GUYS THINK IT SHOULD BE UNTIL THE DOCTORS ARE HAPPY.
THEY WORK FOR SMALL FESS WITH POOR EQUIPMENT AND ON THE BACK OF IT THEY ARE MISTREATED BY CONSULTANTS PATIENTS AND BOARD!
JUST THINK WHAT YOU WOULD DO IF YOU WERE IN THIER POSITION . THINK!
Enuff
I don’t need to be careful. I am willing to, and have suffered for telling the truth all my life. I will not stop now. I can tell you truthfully that I belong to neither of the two political parties. I can tell you truthfully that I rejected invitations to join the BLP after their massive defeat in 1986.
I am not at all “anti-government”. In fact I have many acquaintances in the DLP. I met Donville for example in the 80’s at a particular office owned by some DLP folk. That is why I sent him the private lessons before the election when I noticed that the DLP had nothing at all to say on Health matters. I am as patriotic as any one else. But I don’t suffer fools gladly.
Ranrat and Emptage would have been gone, as they seem to have been given over by BAMP, fairly after investigation. THE ISSUE IS ABOUT PROCESS AND PROCEDURE AND POLITENESS. AND PROTOCOL!
….not Bajan rum shop behavior, where facts, logic, substance is not necessarily a high priority.’
You are correct , the government (both B & D) has no respect for law, protocol or proper process.
My two cents:
BAMP is wrong. If you choose to be a consultant with all the attendant privileges that go with it then you have to take the risks which come with contract work. One of those risks is that your contract will not be renewed when it is up or that you may have to resubmit to the competitive selection process to regain your contract. If you want job security then stay as a junior doctor. if you wish to have the ability as a consultant to run your own private practice and to use the QEH’s facilities for your own private patients then you lose that security. You cannot have your cake and eat it too.
Secondly it looks absurd that the same BAMP Board was criticising the same doctor for not responding to his call-outs. THAT IS A FIRING OFFENSE. You shouldn’t even have to wait until the contract has ended to get rid of some one for that.
Bad Man who have indeed said nothing
Please kindly note that ALL doctors (junior and consultant) who work for the Crown ARE UNDER CONTRACT!
Staying as a junior will not give you any job security either.
Please lindly note that there are limited posts for juniors anyway, and so after the mandatory internship these doctors enter private practice or leave the country, where they are treated better than they are at home….and where there is structure provided for thier advancement and promotion.
Re if you wish to have the ability as a consultant to run your own private practice and to use the QEH’s facilities for your own private patients then you lose that security
You err again the above are perks always granted to Consultants from the beginning to attract the best specialists to the hospital.
If all the Consultants did thier private practice in Belleville and thier surgery at Bay View, who would teach the Juniors and medical students at QEH? THe priest? Or Donville or Dexter James? Or You?
You CAN NOT ADJUDICATE WITH OR WITHOUT THE FACTS
YOU DONT KNOW AND YOU DONT KNOW THAT YOU DONT KNOW
There is no BAMP Board Sir.
BAMP has not objected to firing the me neither. Where have they said that they have. THEY ARE OBJECTIONG TO PROCEDDURE PRACTOCE PROTOCOL and the obvious pattern of this goverbment to fire at will and run rougshod over peopl;e as indicated by two stories in today’s Nation.
HERE ARE TWO ARTICLES FROM TODAY”S NATION THAT INDICATE THE HIGH HANDED METHODOLOGY OF THIS GOVERNMENT
MS BOWEN RICE DOES NOT SEEM TO HAVE BEEN IN A UNION BUT THE DOCTORS ARE
FORMER TOURISM MINISTER Noel Lynch was clean bowled by the Caribbean Broadcasting Corporation (CBC) Tuesday night.
Lynch was barred from entering a studio after being invited to be a guest on Best And Mason and in protest, well known cricket commentator Andrew Mason opted not to co-host the programme.
Lynch, a former marketing manager at CBC, was escorted by a security guard from the broadcasting station’s studio.
He was reportedly told that management had made a decision not to allow him on the programme.
“It is sad where we are going. I am not here actively talking about politics, but about sports. We are talking about cricket development, which I think is a fundamental part of our cultural development and economic development,” Lynch told the DAILY NATION in CBC’s car park minutes after he was ejected around 8 p.m. Tuesday.
But CBC, in a statement carried live on their television news and sports presentation last night, said Lynch had not been banned but there were certain procedures that had not been followed pertaining to guests on programmes at the Pine, St Michael station.
Noting that Lynch was welcome to be on the programme next week, CBC called the incident “unfortunate”.
The 90-minute programme continued on Tuesday night with only Carlisle Best, while Mason joined Lynch outside the CBC compound.
“Mr Mason endured the dilemma of seeking to protect the show on behalf of CBC, while also protecting from severe embarrassment a guest that he had personally invited,” Mason’s attorney-at-law Ralph Thorne, QC, said in a statement on the matter.
“Once Mr Mason was sure that Mr Best would host the show with the other invited guest, he then properly sought to assuage Mr Lynch’s distress.”
Thorne added: “While the corporation has had its show protected, Mr Mason and Mr Lynch have been victims of the corporation’s breach of their constitutional right to freedom of expression and freedom of association. In a most arbitrary manner, the corporation has also trespassed on Mr Mason’s established contractual rights. I would hope that CBC moves speedily to remedy this most unhappy and unlawful situation.”
Noting that he held no political office, Lynch said his prohibition from the programme sent the wrong message to Barbadians.
“What I found to be more serious about the entire thing is that it reflects badly on the Government and the Acting Prime Minister, who has a responsibility for broadcasting.
“It reflects badly on him [the Acting Prime Minister]. What type of conspiracy is this?” Lynch queried.
The former Minister of Tourism said that as far back as 2007, while he was Minister of Tourism, he had appeared on the Best And Mason programme with current Minister of Social Care Chris Sinckler.
“I was a minister and he [Sinckler] was an aspirant to political office,” Lynch said.
PRODUCE THE DOCUMENT.
That is the challenge which fired National Housing Corporation (NHC) chairman Marilyn Rice-Bowen has put to Minister of Housing Michael Lashley.
It is her response to Lashley’s statement in the House of Assembly on Tuesday that she was signatory to a finance contract between the NHC and CLICO for the housing project at Constant, St George.
“I would like to ask the minister (Lashley) to share the contract with the public, because to the best of my knowledge I don’t recall signing a contract and to the best of my knowledge a contract was not executed,” Rice-Bowen told the DAILY NATION in an exclusive interview.
“I would like the minister (Lashley) to produce the document which he is saying that I have signed to support the fact that he is saying there is a contract in place. I stand by my statement that there isn’t a contract in place,” she said.
Rice-Bowen also said some of Lashley’s comments relating to the reported contract and a letter being sent to the NHC’s general manager Lanette Napoleon-Young were inaccurate.
Referring to a set of minutes, she said: “At April 2009, the manager of NHC was Vincent Alleyne.”
She continued: “Item No. 48 captioned Constant Development Page Eight, the general manager informed the meeting that he was in receipt of a letter from CLICO, requesting stage payments for work done at Constant, St George. The general manager indicated that this was in variance with what was agreed to with CLICO and it certainly was not the understanding between CLICO and the board of management.”
She added: “In Item 49, the general manager indicated that he met with CLICO and pointed out that neither management nor the board of management intended to vary from the initial agreement.”
PRODUCE THE DOCUMENT.
That is the challenge which fired National Housing Corporation (NHC) chairman Marilyn Rice-Bowen has put to Minister of Housing Michael Lashley.
It is her response to Lashley’s statement in the House of Assembly on Tuesday that she was signatory to a finance contract between the NHC and CLICO for the housing project at Constant, St George.
“I would like to ask the minister (Lashley) to share the contract with the public, because to the best of my knowledge I don’t recall signing a contract and to the best of my knowledge a contract was not executed,” Rice-Bowen told the DAILY NATION in an exclusive interview.
“I would like the minister (Lashley) to produce the document which he is saying that I have signed to support the fact that he is saying there is a contract in place. I stand by my statement that there isn’t a contract in place,” she said.
Rice-Bowen also said some of Lashley’s comments relating to the reported contract and a letter being sent to the NHC’s general manager Lanette Napoleon-Young were inaccurate.
Referring to a set of minutes, she said: “At April 2009, the manager of NHC was Vincent Alleyne.”
She continued: “Item No. 48 captioned Constant Development Page Eight, the general manager informed the meeting that he was in receipt of a letter from CLICO, requesting stage payments for work done at Constant, St George. The general manager indicated that this was in variance with what was agreed to with CLICO and it certainly was not the understanding between CLICO and the board of management.”
She added: “In Item 49, the general manager indicated that he met with CLICO and pointed out that neither management nor the board of management intended to vary from the initial agreement.”
Another case of being apathetic to existing rules and regulations. But even worse is the fact that the government borrowed money from CLICO (the lender) to pay CLICO (the contractor) to build houses. Why not a a PPP agreement like Jada, which Minister Sinckler recently promulgated as the new MO devised by the Social Policy sub-committee which he chairs?
Seems to me that BAMP must bear some responsibility for these dismissals. Why did they not negotiate for more security of tenure than a simple period of notice? Where in any agreement is there an obligation on the QEH to give a reason for dismissal?
The Terms and Conditions of Service Document outlines the grievance procedure.
THINK!
Dr. Bovine THINK??? Man from East THINK that mess small island find itself because unassailable position academic elite believe itself in … same position Dr. Bovine assume … THINK !! Senior Doctor look down on Junior Doctor, Senior Doctor look down on senior doctor, Senior Doctor look down on Board, and Administration believe Senior look down on Administration too. Now board look down on Senior doctor, and Dr. Bovine look down man from East … no?
Man from East do more than any Senior doctor or Junior doctor or board or Administrator, and work just as hard and long because he WORK FOR US DOLLAR ONLY (no monopoly dollar) AND NOT EXPENSE SMALL ISLAND CITIZEN AT ALL AT ALL …! No cost … none …! Maybe local Doctor find many way to EARN US dollar for small country before need to fatten belly at expense of citizen … no? THINK ..? Dr Bovine?
Chinee Man
Dr GP not look down man from East … NO! Dr GP ask Chinee man only to think how poor junior doctor feel when oprresed by som many folk.
No way that local junior Doctor can belly at expense of citizen Only popliticians can do that and those given political big jobs.
Since Chinnee man earning so much US dollar, maybe he can buy some equipment for suffering local horsepital no?
Maybe Chiknee man can find solutions to problems at horsepital BU people bash doctors but can they come up with solutions of how to fix horsepital within contemporary budget in ongoing recession. Can Chiknee man rise to occasion? Can Chiknee man rise at all? I sign out with risus sardonicus. LOL
Have velley good supper.
“risus sardonicus”
Now man from East really urinated now …no? Chinnee earn sufficient dollar to afford special op… You no want to mess with man from East … Oh no…! We have global connect that make very funny thing happen… give good reason for permanent risus sardonicus …
And as for solution, small island need use of socialism for few years in many department of development … no place for capitalist doctor or priest … no? And By and way I no match for bajan with rise thing but rise I do … no? Really urinated now …!
LOL Chiknee man
Layer on lipstick to yo to Bovine
@Me
Thanks for the information.
“it looks absurd that the same BAMP Board was criticising the same doctor for not responding to his call-outs. THAT IS A FIRING OFFENSE. You shouldn’t even have to wait until the contract has ended to get rid of some one for that.”
That actually depends. Whether or not to come out can very much be a matter of individual discretion, otherwise one could find oneself coming out to some wards every time a patient belch too hard.
What the hospital needs is cross-disciplinary agreement on protocols. Ironically, that same senior doctor who they want to fire was calling for that several years ago. He was ignored, and he eventually settled into doing completely as he felt like, in the absence of mutually agreed standards.
I’m not saying that I agree with his response, but the problem is bigger than him.
@BAFBFP | August 19, 2010 at 8:02 PM |
Layer on lipstick to yo to Bovine
you stupid piece of b… don’t you have anything with sense to bring to the table? idiot
Me
You make an interesting point about coming out.
I was once called out early onr morning because a nurese awoke a patient to bathe her. In doing so she disturned the woman who was having a dream. On being awoken, she looked “bad”! So I was summoned.
The nurse gave me no symptoms no vital signs . Nothing to explain why I should come except “You coming or not.”
Knowing my luck, I went, and was told what I reported above by the patient, as the nurse did not even get a history.
I wrote in the notes. “Called top see patient, who was apparently dreaming. However, since I am niether Daniel aor Joseph, and cannot interpret dreams, I am unable to help her.”
On another occasion I was called to see a young girl who just could not fall asleep. She was thus a problem to the nurses- who could not get to sleep either. They both pleaded with me to give the girl something to help her get to sleep. I refused and went back to sleep ( I always found somewhere to sleeop in hospital when I was on call as an intern
On the ward round next morning, this young lady had by then collecterd copious fluid in her lungs. This collection had apparently started about the time I was called, and had continued during the night. Had i followed her “order” and those of the “nurses” she may well of drowned in her own fluids that night.
I find this statement of yours very interesting
“Ironically, that same senior doctor who they want to fire was calling for that several years ago. He was ignored, and he eventually settled into doing completely as he felt like, in the absence of mutually agreed standards.:
Funny enough, that is how it goes.
Funny how you doctors can be so Hippocratical.
Kos, a call out fee may be more of a spur to you than the existing retainer.
Does your experience identify the real problem?
Call-out fees are not the answer. They are nothing but a superficial fix, temporarily effective at best.
@Me
Please confirm the following.
In Barbados do we have only 3 neurologists and were they all out of the island within the last 2 weeks?
I’m not sure how many we have, but the WHO recommendation is 1 neurologist for every 100 000 people in the population— so 3 sounds fine.
If there’s a conference overseas it’s quite possible that all were overseas at the same time. That’s not necessarily a big deal once they have experienced juniors taking care of patients for the brief time they’re away.
America has fallen into the idea that specialists must always see every patient. This leads to expensive medicine, doesn’t improve outcomes, and is counter-effective with regard to a country’s health development.
Let’s not follow them.
Thanks Anonymous
Who handles emergencies e.g. opening the brain?
I have followed this debate with great interest. I once worked in system, lost relatives in there, have relatives who are doctors and one on the QEH Board. I can say to all that there really is no mal-intent on each side as far as I can see.
Jus a case of lack of communications. I am concern that the management may not have conveyed the policies to stakeholders as they should have. Also statements made in the public domain by both sides clearly inflamed the situation.
I must commend the Minister Inniss for curtailing his familyvacation (he was in Florida meeing up with his wife and two young sons – NOT ON A CRUISE) and attending to he matter. I am told that he worked behind the scenes to calm the situation. He recognized that doctor bashing was not a solution. As a matter of fact, he seems to be too close to doctors and too understanding of their plight. He has talked to both sides in great detail on the issues and directed that they not only talk but build a sustainable relationship.
I quite like the Minister. from day one he has been saying that we spend too much time and resources on the QEH and too little on the system and facilities that feed into the QEH such as the polyclinics. also he has stressed the focus on the preventative aspect of health care. I am told he visits the hospial often and is seen talking with staff from all levels.
clearly there are human resource management issues to be addressed here alon with some serious IR issues, bu when all is done, it is a preventative, community based healthcare system that will work best for Barbados.
@GP,
Polyclinics can be equipped to provide a level of care that could take a huge burden off the QEH.You already tell them that and that was before we had high tech communication.
Polyclinics could be satellites of the QEH connected by the internet. A system of 24/7 video conferencing, Blackberrys,pagers etc.
What we need to improve the Health care system is a “coalition of the willing” at all levels.
Interesting:
excerpted from another section of the press.
“the board’s concern is to work towards the effective management of clinical services and the provision of the best possible hospital care to the people of Barbados.”
” each contract is and will be determined on its own merit.”
“the board’s only concern is the pursuit of the implementation of a patient-centred model of healthcare.”
“the policy direction of the government of Barbados on healthcare, which the board is seeking to implement in the best interest of the widest cross section of Barbados.”
David | August 22, 2010 at 11:16 AM |
Who handles emergencies e.g. opening the brain?
Are you referring to opening the skull, or brain surgery?
In head injuries ( the most common cause of damage to the brain) osmotic diuretics like mannitol are given, and a competent junior doctor is quite equipped to drill Burr holes to reduce intracranial pressure. Brain surgery is done by neurosurgeons.
Hants
As you have pointed out I have already advanced by sending private lessons to the man who is now the minister of health for almost two years. Following that I brought the plan to the public via the auspices of BU since early 2008. Now all of a sudden, we are hearing that Dexter James and the Minister , and Bonjour are Columbus, pretending to discover the new world. This is not the first time that the DLP have done this with one of my ideas. They also did this in the early nineties.
But it was indeed GP who initially pointed out that …………. Polyclinics can be equipped to provide a level of care that could take a huge burden off the QEH. already tell them that and that was before we had high tech communication.
You are of course correct too when you opine that “What we need to improve the Health care system is a “coalition of the willing” at all levels. “
Your proposal below is the first and thus only advancement on the basic plan in terms of offering some methodology, and I laud you for your ability to cerebrate on this matter. You wrote “Polyclinics could be satellites of the QEH connected by the internet. A system of 24/7 video conferencing, Blackberrys,pagers etc. “
I am sure that you know that “a little bit more” is required, but your proposals speak toward the use of Consultants in handling more difficult cases.
To advance the basic plan calls for more than “doctor bashing” which is apparently the limit of the average BU commenter, on matters of health. I wont hold my breath in anticipation of any “fleshing out” of my proposals by any BU commenter.
Bonjour
I would suggest to you that the impasse between BAMP & THE QEH board is much more than “ just a case of lack of communications. “ Even some one with a brain the size of that of an ant, can see this.
Re I must commend the Minister Inniss for curtailing his familyvacation (he was in Florida meeting up with his wife and two young sons – NOT ON A CRUISE) and attending to he matter.
Man Donville only do what he ought to have done man! You expect all sorts of heroics from the hospital doctors who are usually out to the baller. But when the Minister, who might have with vision, and discernment and foresight inter alia, does what he had to do to in the situation , you sing ALL GLORY LAUD AND HONOR?
Re I am told that he worked behind the scenes to calm the situation. He recognized that doctor bashing was not a solution.
Yeah. He recognized that doctor bashing was not a solution after he ascertained that it will not work!. Very good learning curve!
You demonstrate your ignorance of leadership (read Nehemiah chapter three for one of the very best examples – this is a great model) when you opine “ he seems to be too close to doctors and too understanding of their plight”
Re He has talked to both sides in great detail on the issues and directed that they not only talk but build a sustainable relationship.
So now he is a rocket Scientist! This now explains why he was in Florida, when common sense should have told him that conflict was looming. I suspect that he was at Cape Canaveral!
Yes from day one he has been parroting his private lessons that “we spend too much time and resources on the QEH and too little on the system and facilities that feed into the QEH such as the polyclinics also he has stressed the focus on the preventative aspect of health care. “ BUT CAN HE IMPLEMENT ANY OF IT MAN? WHAT HAS HE DONE WITH THE INFORMATION THAT HE HAS BEEN GIVEN IN HIS TWO YEARS IN CONTROL MAN?
Re I am told he visits the hospital often and is seen talking with staff from all levels. ALL GLORY LAUD AND HONOR AGAIN!
WHAT A GREAT ACCOMPLISHMENT! As a result of this hard work the situation in the Hospital is fixed, and all the Healthcare issues in Barbados have been ameliorated. We know much better!
Re “but when all is done, it is a preventative, community based healthcare system that will work best for Barbados.”
Raise the discussion to another level TELL US HOW! CANT THE DLP TELL US HOW? WILL THE DLP DO IT!.
Where are the Vic Johnson’s and the Obrian Trotman’s and Keith Symmond’s or Branford Taitt’s who really understand the peculiar aspect of leadership as espoused in Titus 1:8 ?
Can you find it from among that list?
Can you do more than approximate your labiae orae to the adipose tissue that overlies the Minister’ s glutei ?
I’m not at all convinced that communication is to blame, though I’m sure that may be a decent no-fault storytale for the media when it’s kiss-and-make-up-for-the-reporters time.
My view of management’s expressed HR strategy and the medics’ expressed response is that they are “blinkered” and “naïve” respectively.
Management seems to feel that staff are optimally managed with a loud voice, a tiny tiny carrot, and a big, big stick. Then they can’t understand why no-one is performing, their employees hate them, and their turnover rate is stratospheric. BACKWARD AND BLINKERED!
The doctors seem to feel that their position is obvious and reasonable, and that public and management will “understand” with minimal negotiation, persuasion, or explanation. Alas, even when you’re right, this is seldom the case. ADOLESCENT AND NAÏVE!
GP prehaps there is no glory for a Minister of Health in making polyclinics function as you have told them.
Prehaps there is a stigma attached to polyclinics “cause dah is whey poor people does go”.
If Government Ministers had to stay in public wards at the QEH.
If they had to go to Polyclinics for medical attention.
If they had to spend 50% of their salary on medication, the Health care system would improve.
If Ministers were forced to drive Nissan Micras and live in Trents Tenantry, the roads would be fixed and the flooding problems would be solved.
@Hants at 12:00am
I believe you have hit the nail precisely on the head. Projects are selected not because of the inherent value to the process and desired effectiveness of the service, but instead based on what the Minister feels will garner him the most public benefit.
As long as that is the way our decisions are made, “crapaud smoke we pipe”.
Hants | August 23, 2010 at 12:00 AM |
Actually there would be much glory for a Minister of Health in making polyclinics function as I have told them, because inter alia , the pressure on the QEH would be relieved, and the populace would get great care.
There is no real stigma attached to polyclinics; and in fact folk who are far from poor attend sometimes. I have treated magistrates and even the family members of Ministers of Government.
If you are ever sick in Barbados and have to go in the QEH go to public wards, because the private wards tend to be understaffed when you consider that patients are not in an open ward. I used to sleep up there when I was an intern when I was on call, so I know what I am talking about.
Anonymous | August 23, 2010 at 12:55 PM |
There is much merit in your belief that Projects are selected not because of the inherent value to the process and desired effectiveness of the service, but instead based on what the Minister feels will garner him the most public benefit.
It is written where there is no vision the people perish!
One wonders if it is really true as reported in the evening online newspaper that half of the Sanitation Authority’s trucks are not functioning.
Is this another measure indicative of the inefficiency of the DLP and the management of the Minister of Health?
Has everything gone to pot ? Besides doctor bashing?
The QEH is advertising for consultants…
“Currently due to industrial action the QEH is in urgent need of recruiting a cadre of medical specialists. Competitive rates will be offered for work in this island paradise.”
Is that the correct thing to do while discussions are going on between the QEH Board & BAMP?
Is this the correct thing to do to those senior registrars who have given a good chunk of thier life to serving the QEH?
Certainly the QEH is looking for trouble.
Why are the junior doctors under the NUPW instead of under BAMP/ When was this decision made?
The ad was a hoax, confirmed by CEO Dexter James.