National Insurance Board Responds To Public Concern

Posted on October 16, 2011 by David | 204 Comments

Click to read Press Release Issued by National Insurance Board in response to rising public concern about the management of NIS funds

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204 Responses to National Insurance Board Responds To Public Concern

David | October 16, 2011 at 10:59 AM |

The comment below was posted by Inkwell on another blog and reposted by BU because of its relevance to the topic matter. In fact Chairman Marshall called out Boos.

Under a recent post (I don’t remember which), Bush Tea said he wondered what Inkwell thought of the NIS situation.

Bushie, I shuddered at the thought of the work involved in putting my thoughts into words, but I also knew I had a responsibility to make the effort. Fortunately, I have been rescued and all I need to do is reproduce the article written for Caribbean360 by Peter Boos and published on October 13th. Peter Boos speaks for me and for every Barbadian, whether they contribute to the NIS fund or not. His article makes for compelling reading and since I suspect that Barbados Underground has wider readership than Caribbean360, his views should be propagated here for the benefit of all…with David’s permission, of course.

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Is an NIS Funds Investment in Four Seasons Development Appropriate?

By Business Barbados · October 13, 2011 · No comments
Barbados Economy · Tagged: Barbados Government, Four Seasons, NIS Funds Investment

Four Seasons Private Residences – Barbados

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Having witnessed the ups and downs of the Barbados economy for 41 years it is clear that the current crisis is certainly the worst we have experienced in that time, with no easy victories in sight and lots of hard slogging and tough choices yet to be made. Importantly, the current international environment in developed economies is expected to continue for a few more years, and to be characterized by slow growth and high levels of unemployment. The October 2011 report from the Central Bank of Barbados confirms this assessment.

We can all agree that these are tough times and Government has difficult choices to make. It is the job of all citizens to help get the country back on a growth path by being more innovative, productive, competitive and confident.

Recent disclosures that the developers of the proposed Four Seasons project have made an application for financing from the NIS Fund have surprised many. Even more surprising is the indication from Government this should and will happen, seemingly as a matter of course.

No doubt there are many potential benefits of having a commercially viable, self-sustaining Four Seasons Hotel in Barbados, and few reasonably minded people in Barbados would want the project to fail just for the sake of it. This would simply not be a defensible position to take.

Nevertheless, the fact that we are in a deep long term economic recession should not lead to a relaxation of the legal and socio-economic principles governing the manner in which the NIS fund is allocated and invested. On the contrary, I am of the firm view that it is precisely in times such as these that the integrity of a fund in the nature of the NIS fund should be most jealously guarded. The fund is not a commercial or development fund. It is a social security and pension fund, which should, for obvious reasons, be invested on a conservative basis to meet long-term liabilities.

Some may recall that CLICO failed essentially because it strayed from sound investment management practices as mandated in the law under insurance regulations, and took on several speculative investments, which eventually it could not support financially. Looked at objectively CLICO and the NIS have something very important in common: CLICO derived and the NIS derives large volumes of cash from insurance premiums, pension contributions, investment income etc. As a corollary to that, the people whose money was held by CLICO and is held by the NIS were/are depending on receiving the benefit of those funds. In many cases those funds are the only savings and retirement planning provision made by such people.

Against this background some important questions arise on the appropriate use of NIS Funds by Government.

Appropriate NIS Funds Investment

How should NIS Funds be invested? What are the Guidelines for NIS Funds investment and who sets them? What are the powers of any Government to mandate how these Funds may be invested?

Recent announcements indicate that almost 70% of NIS Funds are lent to Government. On what terms does the Government borrow these funds from the people? Sovereign debt crises in Europe and the USA should be sufficient warning for Barbadians that Governments too can default. At the end of the day, it is the taxpayers who have to make good any shortfalls, and it is they who are at risk if their future social security needs cannot be met.

In the recent 2011 Budget presentation [concerning] Government’s Proposed Strategy to Reduce the Deficit in Line with the Medium Term Fiscal Strategy (MTFS) the following statement was included:

“Designing of a borrowing package from the NIB to three statutory entities (UWI, Transport Board, BTA and Needhams Holdings ltd) to allow for financing of $110 million during the course of this financial year for specific aspects of their programme. This will address the level of current transfers made to these entities from government but allow for greater flexibility to do more to stimulate the economy. Servicing of this debt will however be provided for, where necessary in the Consolidated Fund”.

Is it appropriate for Government to essentially use NIS Funds as a bank for its funding needs? The precedent set in 2011 is a very dangerous one. This is essentially window-dressing so that our debt to GDP ratio and fiscal deficit are artificially made to look better in order to satisfy the rating agencies and other interested International Agencies.

NIS Funds Investments – What are they?

We do not have published information on any of the investments held by the NIS at this time. Why not? These Funds belong to the people. It should be remembered, at all times, that the people do not have the freedom to consider all of their financial planning options and, if they like, choose to allocate some of their money to the NIS, on the basis that the NIS is the best, safest or most rewarding investment. Not at all. The people and their employers are obliged by law to make monthly contributions to the NIS Fund. Ironically, in the world of optional investments, one can examine a plethora of information about a prospective investment, before deciding whether or not to invest. In the case of the NIS, to which payments are mandated by law, the reality is that no meaningful information has been provided to the people for a number of years.

Looking at the deployment of NIS funds into the range of possible investments as desirable as it is to have a Four Seasons Hotel in Barbados, should NIS Funds be invested in that way?

There are many other equally pressing national economic needs. Innovative solutions for the south coast tourism product, food security, expanded broadband connectivity, alternative renewable energy, niche manufacturing, economic diversification for exports (e.g. international medical services, arts/culture, international education services etc). So why the Four Seasons? Is this the role of the NIS? Is the NIS now to be a development bank with all the associated risks?

The CLICO failure is primarily as a result of speculative, risky investments of policy holders’ funds. Many people have lost their entire investments and pensions, and the Barbadian taxpayers may yet have to carry the burden of its [shocking demise]. Consequently, the climate is such that there is widespread fear and concern that the NIS fund, which seems to be the only substantial fund left in the country, and which is a public pension and social security fund, may be risked as well.

We should not invest scarce national savings managed by Trustees on behalf of the people in a way that is not within the NIS mandate, without open and full disclosure, within published and approved investment guidelines and subject to management according to rigorous governance procedures.

The fiduciary responsibility of the Board of the NIS [includes the obligation to] invest the funds they manage, on behalf of the contributors, [in a manner which will] ensure stability of its investment portfolio for the long term to meet its future pension liabilities to contributors and other beneficiaries.

I am informed that the NIS manages $3 billion in assets and has surpluses of $30M a month; and some are aggrieved that the commercial banks take advantage of this by offering low returns on deposits. However, given the current economic climate, it cannot be expected that returns will be generous. This much is clear and acceptable. To swing to the other side of the spectrum and posit that NIS funds should be invested in risky real estate developments, in the absence of the highest level of scrutiny must be a breach of fiduciary duties owed to the people of Barbados. Given the nature of the fund, the investments would be safer with the commercial banks since the principal would be safe. The assertion that the NIS fund is in surplus does not, in the absence of meaningful disclosures as to the state of the NIS fund, justify investment in risky ventures.

Is this a Fronting Arrangement?

Indeed in the circumstances it is understandable that people are asking: is this proposed investment not just another way of NIS lending money to Government through a ‘fronting arrangement’ to pursue its development agenda? If it is, then the investment should be categorized as such. At least then the investment would be a Sovereign Liability and of potentially greater value to NIS beneficiaries. Should the investment fail, what then? Unless the Government is willing to issue a guarantee to the people in respect of this use of the NIS fund, there is no acceptable answer to this question.

Management and use of NIS Funds should be separate and distinct from Government’s funding needs. This really is the issue. Does Government determine the investment policy and choices of the NIS? Does it have the authority to do so under the law? More and more we see Government essentially regarding the NIS as a source of funds to finance Government’s operations. This is a dangerous course because even the wisest, most well-intentioned of Governments is not infallible.

The public have become increasingly concerned in the past year or two about this, and the current Four Seasons proposal is a cause of deep concern for many stakeholders.

The argument in favour of an NIS funds investment of this project is that, in these recessionary times, Government has to support development projects in order for them to gain impetus. However, Government support is one thing, while, given the social security nature of the NIS fund, expending it for the proposed purposes is quite another. Put another way, Government support for a project should not automatically translate into depleting the NIS fund simply because this is the only source of real cash remaining.

Full Disclosure is Imperative

The people of Barbados are the owners of the NIS fund. As such they are they entitled to full disclosure including:

most recent unaudited financial statements (to 30 June 2011 would be acceptable)

2010 audited financial statements as soon as possible.

access to most recent approved audited financial statements.

current list of the components of the investment portfolio totaling $3 billion.

the investment guidelines of the NIS Fund.

the governance policies of the NIS Board.

the powers of the Minister of Finance as regards NIS investments.

Once these disclosures are made, the proposed NIS funds investment in the Four Seasons project can be fully and fairly evaluated.

The writer is not opposed in principle to that project or to investment in it, if the project is viable and the investment is structured in a fashion that will not put every Barbadian taxpayer at risk of having to “pick up the pieces” if things fall apart. The writer also does not advocate the disclosures highlighted idly or out of mischief. Indeed one of the reasons why the disclosures would be so welcome is because while the reality is that there may be nothing to hide or obfuscate, the prevailing absence of total transparency creates the impression, bewildering to the country, that there must be something to hide. Dispelling these fears through full and ready disclosure would give people more comfort in the context of the investment of their life savings into development projects generally; and an understanding of how this particular investment into the Four Seasons would be structured, especially as regards protection of the people’s funds and mitigation of their risk, would help to persuade us all that it is in fact a compelling investment, which serves the best interests of the people who have worked so hard to generate the NIS fund.
millertheanunnaki | October 16, 2011 at 11:11 AM |

@ PN Boos:

Two points that can be raised:

The demise of CLICO was not brought about solely through injudicious investment decisions by the management and compounded by the negative fall out from the international recession.
Lining their pockets with exorbitant and outrageous remuneration packages not at all tied to performance and profitability also significantly contributed to the business failure.
A properly and independently conducted forensic audit could have the capacity to unearth certain transactions that brought no value whatsoever to policyholders other than by way of glorifying the campaigning efforts of the political parties of their preference.

Your constructive criticism of the lack of transparency and accountability in the NIB’s investment policy, processes and actions is indeed in order. How can a board of directors, entrusted with the fiduciary responsibility for so much of the working people’s money, make effective decisions in the absence of up-to-date and reliable financial information?
One can only conclude, from your analysis, that the competence of the players involved should be up for questioning- big time! Under other circumstances, the CEO, the Chairman and other directors will be hauled before the courts for breaking legislation that stipulates company reporting obligations; and with the obvious outcome of being sacked by the shareholders.

But insulation and protection by the political bagasse ensure that this incompetence continues to the detriment of the workers; especially those whose only future source of income is being put at risk similar to the CLICO basket case.
David | October 16, 2011 at 11:20 AM |

Is Chairman Marshall saying all decisions made by his Board and others before him have not been influenced by ministers and prime ministers? BU say bullshit!
Checkit-Out | October 16, 2011 at 11:22 AM |

Testing!

So practically all the comments on the NIS have been misinformed. Pray tell who is responsible in large measure for that arguable misinformation?

So the Minister of Finance has no control on NIS operations. That is itself misinformation and indeed totally laughable.

So an actuarial study was done last year. When will the public have an opportunity to get at least a glimpse of the report or a sanitised summary thereof?
millertheanunnaki | October 16, 2011 at 11:32 AM |

@ David:
I told you the the marshal is phoney! All that high-sounding mouthing off on the talk show is just to boost his popularity and not genuinely coming from his heart. He would put deputy dawg in the shade anytime.! I wonder if he is including his predecessor Mr. Physical Deficit (an ex-clico gopher)!
Caswell Franklyn | October 16, 2011 at 11:33 AM |

Please ask Mr. Marshall to address the issue of the funding of the purchase CLICO Mortgage Finance Company by Public Workers Credit Union. Particularly, I would like to know circumstances that caused the NIB to reverse its decision. My understanding is that the Board refused the loan and they were instructed to review the appilcation and grant the loan. Mr. Marshall say it isn’t so.
Buffalo soldier | October 16, 2011 at 11:33 AM |

Some posters here beginning to mirror BFP they wishing and hoping for Barbados to collapse. Question is then what?
Peter Boos has resurfaced with the same doomsday crap he came with in the Sandiford era.
These white foreigners come here live large in the bigoted ranks of their soul mates the local white elites and attack every move black Barbadians make.
lemuel | October 16, 2011 at 11:34 AM |

To David:
When one speaks of the hypocrisy that goes on in Barbados, then you are seen as attacking people. Marshall was sitting on the call in program giving the impression that he was so unbiased and objective. How it is that he comes out of his cocoon a chairman under a DLP government. You are not made a chairman or member of a board unless you belong. He and VOB are the biggest hypocrites in Barbados. Do not let start with the Maxine saga. Even if the NIS is going broke he marshall shall say nothing the pittance each month is more important to him.
David | October 16, 2011 at 11:37 AM |

Can we assume Chairman Marshall is speaking for all members of the board?
Nothing shocks me | October 16, 2011 at 11:40 AM |

The statement says absolutely nothing. Nothing. In no way does it address the very legitimate and timely concerns raised by Peter Boos. Don’t forget Neal & Massey are also looking for a handout from the NIS to enable them to dump Almond. I predict that therein lies another story of greed and corruption.
Checkit-Out | October 16, 2011 at 12:02 PM |

NOthing shocks me; You said above “The statement says absolutely nothing. Nothing.”
Not true. It gave a fairly clear explanation of the relevant NIS’ functions and the safeguards mandated by legislation. However, It did not address in any way the concerns raised by Boos, the BU family and indeed, the majority of Barbados’ pensioners. Most pensioners in Barbados are appalled by the apparent use of the NIS as a government piggy bank despite the safeguards alluded to by the Chairman. The statement did not address this in any substantive way but merely sought to suggest that the NIS and the NIB which follows the policy set by the Minister of Finance are legally exampt from political interference. That is obviously not so and there are many clear examples of why that could not be so. Indeed, Caswell and David and others have pointed to clear examples of why the statement is disingenuous at best but most likely utterly misleading since NIS funds were used for projects of little national but presumably high political importance.
Mr Marshal did not succeed in allaying any of the fears of the typical pensioner about the use of NIS funds. He needs to wheel and come again.
Caswell Franklyn | October 16, 2011 at 12:41 PM |

Buffalo Soldier

Don’t attack Peter Boos because he is white. Discredit what he says if you can. If you were blind and had the good fortune to interact with Peter Boos you would not know that he is white unless someone told you. He has done and is doing more for Barbados than most of the representatives that sit in the House. By the way, he does not make a fuss about it. Barbados is all the better for having people like Peter Boos and his wife Jan. I don’t think that you can match Peter Boos as an accountant or a human being.
millertheanunnaki | October 16, 2011 at 12:43 PM |

@ Buffalo soldier:
“These white foreigners come here live large in the bigoted ranks of their soul mates the local white elites and attack every move black Barbadians make.”
No need to bring race into the discussions.
Focus your attacks / criticisms at what Mr. Boos is positing. Are his assessment and conclusions that far off as to be totally dismissed out of hand or do they have some merit worth serious analysis and debate?
Carson C. Cadogan | October 16, 2011 at 12:49 PM |

OFF TOPIC

This evening will be the kick off of the DAVID THOMPSON football tournament.
All are invited to the Gall Hill sports complex, St. John for 5.00P.M.

Come and enjoy youselves.

I am looking forward to seeing you there DAVID, TRUTHMAN BURTON, ISLANDGAL246 and all the others.
Pearl | October 16, 2011 at 12:51 PM |

I for one am not comforted with the statement from the Chairman of the NIS, in fact I find it even more scary to actually see confirmation that the ‘financial books’ or so to speak have only been updated to 2005. How can you be spending money that you don’t know for certain that you have??
The Scout | October 16, 2011 at 1:17 PM |

General elections are drawing near, that’s why Marshall in back on the call-in programme. VOB has lost much of its credibility, because the network decided not to use moderators who are party bias, yet they have brought back Marshall, who isn’t only party bias but arrogant and a total snob.
David | October 16, 2011 at 1:38 PM |

What does Minister Esther Byer-Suckoo has to say about everything that has been happening in her portfolio.

Does she have a tongur or has she delegated to Chairman Marshall and Ministers Sinckler and Kellman?
The Scout | October 16, 2011 at 1:46 PM |

David
It would be better if she said nothing because she has been saying a lot but not doing; I deem her the worse minister in the DLP cabinet, even the one they didn’t want (kellman) until Thompson died, is doing more than her.One supporter of hers and the party could pnly describe her as a “pretty girl.”
Nothing shocks me | October 16, 2011 at 1:49 PM |

@Checkit-out
Ok, you are right, it does outline the duties and responsibilites of the NIS. I did mean that it did not address Boos’s remarks. We are on the same page.
Random Thoughts | October 16, 2011 at 2:24 PM |

Quoting Peter bos “the Barbadian taxpayers may yet have to carry the burden of its [CLICO][shocking demise].”

As a Barbadian who has contributed to the NIS fund for more than 40 years, and who is depending on the NIS (and only on the NIS) for a pension in 8 year and 7 months time, I agree with every word that Peter Boos has said. I believe that he is being truthful and reasonable so therefore it does not matter that is is white and male and foreign.

However I disagree with him that CLICO’s demise was shocking. Those of us who had close friends and relatives who formerly worked with CLICO are not at all surprised at CLICO’s death. CLICO’s death was not natural. CLICO was murdered by its insiders.

What is surprising is that the judicial committee has expressed no interest inin taking sworn statements form former CLICO employees
ac | October 16, 2011 at 3:12 PM |

Mr. Marshall in your response to The public. You keep reminding the public about the sound portfolio of the NIS. How about showing full proof to the public by releasing said documentation through media. Doesn’t the public have a Right to see such documentation. Why should the public believe you or any one else after all it is the taxpayers money and not yours or anybody else’s. It really behooves me to see how those in government play free and loose with money that is entrusted to them by the working stiff and when asked upon to show any proof or records all “Hell Breaks” loose upon those who dare would differ or ask.Mr . Marshall the time has come for you to act fair and decent with the public it is not good enough for you to send out a selserving letter and think it would be sufficient to quell the public’s fears. What is your agenda Mr. Marshall ! Whose side are you on. It is time to show and not only tell.
The Scout | October 16, 2011 at 4:52 PM |

Open letter to Starcom Network
In a statement made sometime ago, I think it was during the nomination of candidates for the St. John’s seat in the by-elections after the seat became vacant by the death of the representative David Thompson, you stated that you have made a policy that no person who shows a bias towards anu political party, must not he considered as a moderator for you call-in programmes, hence Matthew Farley was discarded. For a while we saw the adsence of Mr Tony Marshall from the airwaves and we figured it was for the said purpose that he was removed, however, we realise he is now back and continues to show his bias towards a particular party, and even holds a prominent position in a department of government. My question to you therefore is whether your policy has changed or if you were pressure to recall him? We also recall the former moderator Maxine Mcclean declaring on your call-in programme that she was not a member of any political party, but as soon as that party won elections, the said person took high office within the party and furthermore revealled that she was instrumental in planning the election strategy. Please let us the general public know if your Mr Marshall has a similar objective and if he remains, it would only be fair play if someone from the other party be given an oppurtunity to air their views. Please don’t make it look like you are part of the ruling government’s party strategy
The Scout | October 16, 2011 at 4:56 PM |

David
Please forgive me for any grammatical or spelling errors, however this is typical of the said Company’s print medium
JUST ASKING | October 16, 2011 at 5:06 PM |

ARE we going to allow this country to be derailed again by a stupid government with an equally uninformed , uninspiring, group of people contolling things ???
DOES this Government have the right to continue running the affairs of this country ???

WHAT de ass we waiting for ??

ARE we waiting for everything to crumble ???
WHEN are we going to admit that 2008 was a BIG BIG BIG BIG BIG BIG BIG BIG BIG BIG BIG BIG BIG BIG BIG BIG BIG BIG mistake ??
JUST ASKING | October 16, 2011 at 5:18 PM |

IS Marshall a snob ?
DID I asked this question before?
IS it true that persons who get what they didnt expect or didnt think would get are the biggest snobs ??
IS it true that SNOBS dont care bout a fella unlesss that fella is more powerful or can dish out largesse ????
IS former moderator Maureen Holder a SNOB ?
IS Freundel a SNOB in sheep’s clothing ???
IS Ian Estwick a SNOB ???
Random Thoughts | October 16, 2011 at 5:21 PM |

So if Neal and Massey can’t make a go of Almond.

And if rich investors don’t want to invest at the proposed Four Seasons.

And if in the past those who owned Eastry House and GEMS properties can’t (or won’t) run them profitably.

Then am I supposed to use my pension money, the only money which I have (now that I am old and sick, and broke and have no modern marketable skills) then am I supposed to use my pension money to support these no go ventures?

And then what about me? How shall I eat? and how shall I repair my house? and pay for medical attention, and give my grandchildren a present? and leave enough so that my children can bury me?

I find it surprising that under no circumstances can I touch my own NIS contributions, and yet those who manage my NIS money are considering using MY MONEY to fund risky ventures. And yet if I needed a kidney transplant, or cancer treatment NIS would let me die (and pay my family a $1,200 funeral grant, even though I have contributed for more than 40 years) but would not let me touch my own contributions even if I needed the money to save my life.

WHAT ABOUT ME?
Random Thoughts | October 16, 2011 at 5:27 PM |

Just asking asked “WHAT de ass we waiting for ??”

We waiting to “OCCUPY” Bay Street or Broad Street, or River Road or the Pine, or the lodge meeting houses wherever it is the rascals and banksters hang out.
Hants | October 16, 2011 at 5:32 PM |

Is it wise to build Luxury houses today. Are we confident that the world economy will return to pre 2008 levels of prosperity?

There is a huge risk that these multi million dollar properties could become white elephants or have to be sold at a loss.

Private Investors should take the risks on this project.
The Scout | October 16, 2011 at 5:39 PM |

Random Thoughts
The irony of it all is, after these places are built, you and I and all the others who contributed to its completion, can’t even get pass the
gated entry” Like we building a NEW SOUTH AFRICA
lemuel | October 16, 2011 at 5:54 PM |

I am feeling the frustration of the ability to do nothing by ordinary folks with respect to how the NIS money is being invested. Owen and his gang wants to rule in five years their promise must be that that the full weight of the Law must come down on Tony Marshall and the Ministers who are involved in this spending madness. What could possibly be done legally by NIS beneficiaries I am sure that some legal action can be brought to block the consideration of these mad ventures of Tony Marshall.
JUST ASKING | October 16, 2011 at 6:06 PM |

CANT we unsderstand that the stupid experiment of 2008 is over ???
CANT we understand that this is made worse by Sinckler not becoming Prime Minister of Barbados in 2010 ???
CANT we understand that if it aint Sinckler , it should be Owen Arthur ????
CANT we understand that a leader should inspire , demonstrate vision and motivate people ???
OWEN Owen Owen -Could you Please help us?
The Scout | October 16, 2011 at 6:06 PM |

lemuel
I’m not sure if anything would be done if governments are changed. I have been saying for quite a while, WE NEED A NEW PARTY OF PERSONS WITH NEW IDEAS AND WILLINGNESS TO BRING POLITICIANS TO ACCOUNT.
lemuel | October 16, 2011 at 6:26 PM |

To Scout:
I share your frustration; how many inquiries have we had and not a politician or his friend lock up. People in barbados shall find it difficult to move to a third party; they have too much time and expectations invested in either party. Carson Cadogan would have to return overseas if the BLP got in and look for work. He is simply would not be interested unless the other party warms up to him. Bajan politics is about what you can get when your party is in power. This why the rank and file are thrown to the curb as soon as their party gains power. We have ourselves in a big political mess, and the joke about it is that many of the country’s true leaders are looking on in amazement. Many are blogging here on BU. I may cuss Island Gal at times but she would do a better job than most of them.
lemuel | October 16, 2011 at 6:27 PM |

To Island Gal:
The above was not intended to become any friend of yours.
Bush Tea | October 16, 2011 at 6:46 PM |

The bad news is that the alternative to Government spending the NIS money is that we will then have to live within our means. That means some serious cutbacks – especially as we have years of extravagance to pay back. There are few Santa Clauses left out there who are willing to continue to give us money to live beyond our means…so this means..
……..layoffs, cutbacks, import restrictions, etc

The good news is… We may as well let them spend the NIS money to buy us a few more months of fooling ourselves that we deserve the lifestyles that we enjoy…
…cause NIS or not, the dog dying – as so is “Granny Earth”.

.
Trained Economist | October 16, 2011 at 6:47 PM |

what mad ventures have the NIS undertaken?

the latest financials are for 2002, a ,ot of ground seems to have been made up in thest two years, interesting that we have rage now.
islandgal246 | October 16, 2011 at 6:55 PM |

Hmmmmmnnn……A non believer like me? Friends…….???? NAH
islandgal246 | October 16, 2011 at 7:08 PM |

@Carson Ca DOG Gan

The only football I am going to see or play is if your head will be the ball that is going to be used. So I will refuse your invitation this time.
BAFBFP | October 16, 2011 at 7:23 PM |

My my, Marsh at his non-committal best … “publication of up to date accounts by the end of 2011 or as soon there after as possible” … Brilliant! We could still be waiting for another 10 years and Marsh would not have told an untruth …. ha ha ha ha …
BAFBFP | October 16, 2011 at 7:30 PM |

Does anyone know who the auditors for NIS are? Please, if the answer is PWC, keep it to yourself, I would rather NOT know…

Maybe Bush Teas would see the sense in NIS forming its own bank and creating overdraft facilities for retailers to use and charge them double digit interest rates. Boos is saying that the money is safer in the Bank earning a couple of percents, with inflation approaching double digits … the same banks that make businesses shite, who in turn are forced to make consumers like yours truly shite even more. Why should these funds be used to prop up the very institutions that are at the epicentre of ALL that is wrong in this f#cking world …!
Clone | October 16, 2011 at 7:57 PM |

I have a problem with Peter Boos.
I can remember Peter Boos being very vocal against the Sandiford government back in the early 90s. He is not impartial. How come he never asked for financial reports of the NIS between 2002 and 2008?
How come when the banks put on all of those charges on poor Barbadians you did not hear him complaining? Now he wants the NIS to put the money in the Banks?

The NIS should put the money in the credit Union so that they can start a bank for the poor people of Barbados.

Scout
VOB already have Patrick Hoyos as the BLP moderator
Pine hog boy | October 16, 2011 at 8:11 PM |

What the DLP do Patrick Hoyos the boy hate the Dees bad he hate Fruendel more Im surprised wikileaks didnt mention Patrick Hoyos as an informer he fits the bill perfectly.
David | October 16, 2011 at 9:00 PM |

@Hants

Is it wise to build Luxury houses today. Are we confident that the world economy will return to pre 2008 levels of prosperity?

There is a huge risk that these multi million dollar properties could become white elephants or have to be sold at a loss.

Private Investors should take the risks on this project.

This is a good point.
Bush Tea | October 16, 2011 at 9:17 PM |

@ BAFBFP

What Bush Tea do you now? Bushie ain’t cuss you now for more than a week…. Man ease muh muh!!

@ Clone
You just casually mentioned the ABSOLUTELY BEST solution.
NIS funds should be 85% invested in BAJANS.
In Bajan homes, businesses, property, and education. …..NOT by dishing out largesse a la Government style, but in a structured, transparent, businesslike way a la THE CREDIT UNION.
Surely if our pension funds have to be invested in large ventures, the least we can ask is that Bajans OWN these assets in the end….
BAFBFP | October 16, 2011 at 9:42 PM |

I think I am missing something here … But who do the Credit Unions bank with again?
Trained Economist | October 16, 2011 at 9:44 PM |

yes the same Peter Boos who was behind all the money poured into the failed world cup and world cup legacy project.

There should have been a commission of inquiry about the cricket world cup and the spend surrounding that project.

yu think a four seasons hotel would be as big a white elephant as kensington oval is?

how much did we spend on the world cup, where is the legacy? peter Boos and co have never had to answer for that, but now they can rubbish everything and demand the most accountability.
David | October 16, 2011 at 9:46 PM |

@Trained Economist

These are harsh economic times and there will be more question now than in times of plenty, deal with it!
Trained Economist | October 16, 2011 at 10:01 PM |

I am dealing with it. Harsh times does not grant the right to rubbish every initiative.
David | October 16, 2011 at 10:05 PM |

@Trained Economist

It seems the public has a problem with NIS funds being used for 4Cs.

Which other projects the public has been as harsh?
anthony | October 16, 2011 at 10:11 PM |

well they already been judge on the cruise ship nonsense. As for big white elephant does any have the finical report from KOMI? Has it been able to pay for itself ? it become the premier large party/fete location on the island but has is at least covered it current expense going on to cover the loan repayment. the other big white elephant of LESC still doesn’t and another 50+ million expansion was pushed into it ? The only legacy majority of the people care for is the expanded highway which most people think too much was spent but no one wants to give it up so
ac | October 16, 2011 at 10:12 PM |

@Trained Economist

Are you really dealing with it .one thing you seem to have forgotten that the message is not only coming from Mr, Boos but the public at large and it is “real” and not “rubbish” and those in power must be held accountable before they go on a spending spree withthe public s money . BTW who gave You and others that Right!
Sargeant | October 16, 2011 at 10:43 PM |

Is the argument against using NIS funds in ventures that would benefit the country economically? It seems that a large segment of the respondents would rather the funds be deposited in a Financial Institution to the tune of 3% per annum.

Gov’ts all over the world invest pension funds, some to maximize returns but they can also be used as an economic tool to enhance the lives of its citizens.

Tourism is Barbados’ principal earner of foreign exchange, it would be interesting to know how many Bajans earn a living from Tourism or a related industry. Sometimes the relationship may not be so apparent e.g. agriculture… I know one or two small farmers who sell their produce to Hotels and if NIS funds are invested in Barbados’ major industry why do some folks have an issue with that? In the US when GM and Ford were ailing did the Gov’t turn its back? How are those companies doing today? There are some mathematicians or pseudo mathematicians on this board; would they care to calculate the multiplier effect of a dollar earned at Four Seasons?

Some people seem to have a crystal ball so they know inherently that this investment is doomed to failure however this optimist believes that Barbadian funds invested in Barbados are a recipe for success.
Caswell Franklyn | October 16, 2011 at 11:11 PM |

The National Insurance Board is basically holding our money in trust. Normally trustees are not allow to speculate/gamble with the money that they are holding on behalf of their principals. When money is invested in highly speculative ventures the return, if there is one, might be substantial. However, in the event of a failure the sum invested could be lost. That is why trustees are forbidden from gambling with other people’s money. They are required to place money in safe investments: the return might not be large but you are guaranteed a return.

This Four Seasons project has no track record that would justify placing one cent of the NIS funds in that venture. If the NIS fund were a private pension plan the Financial Services Commission would not allow this type of gambling with the fund.
BAFBFP | October 16, 2011 at 11:51 PM |

Placing the money in a Bank ie leaving it in cash is the worse possible option in this current environment … in fact it is not even an option! The problem with 4C’s is that it like all other construction projects, it requires massive fx injections. The fund is a local fund … there is a mismatch!

I say put local artisans to work and build a cruise liner … a 4C’s project that can sail to any destination that can make money. A reasonably sized cruise vessel could be built for 350 mil, with tremendous local value added …

Thank u .. thank u … you are too kind …
anthony | October 16, 2011 at 11:56 PM |

Sargeant.

Ford never received a government bailout. the government bailed out GM not social security. The American people would had a fit if social security (NIS) was being used to bail out gm. If the government of Barbados want to foot the cash into 4S so be it but leave the nis out of it. It would be quite easy issue some bonds and have nis buy the government guaranteed debt. Can the 4S bring lot of cash yes. Is the market already saturate with villas as the recent price cut imply? No other private investor foreign or local ( sandy land backers, millennium investment ( crane ) , co williams, altman real estates ) want to touch the project with a 10 foot pole so why should we want nis money in it? These are all reasonable reason to keep nis out of it unless government will to give a guarantee on the debt. Failing to do that then government itself should invest in the project with the issuance of bonds to be bought by nis/local investors. or finance directly thru fx reserves.
anthony | October 16, 2011 at 11:58 PM |

BAFBFP

While the idea sounds great. you would also need a 200-300 million us ship building yard to go along with your cruise ship building project if you want to us local talent
Sargeant | October 17, 2011 at 1:16 AM |

@Anthony

Mea culpa I was thinking Chrysler and I typed Ford instead.
balance | October 17, 2011 at 5:49 AM |

mr milleranua a proper and independent forensic audit would never be conducted because it could and if independent would possibly unearth the level of involvement of the squeaky clean late prime minister in this despicable deceit that was perpetrated on the backs of policyholders not only in trinidad where anything is supposed to go but right here in prim and proper barbados. the political and sychofantic bagasse has already began the process of deifying mr thompson as witnessed by the charade which took place at the hilton over the weekend so nothing can be done now to tarnish mr thompson’s deification for having contributed nothing to the development of barbados. mr stuart’s speech to the 33rd annual conference of the DLP makes good reading. looking at correspondence from clico over the years and noticing the array of prominently and eminently qualified persons sitting on the board, i believe that these certified gentlemen if they were not part of the shenanigan like mr thompson should hang their heads in shame for allowing a supposedly nitwit like mr parris and i do not believe he is one to take them for a ride while he was living and continues to live high off the hog. do not forget that mr thompson told the people of barbados not to worry that clico was a well run company and proceeded to prop them up seemingly to restore confidence with 10 million of barbados’ hardearned taxpayers money and no one has as yet accused him of corruption because like ‘caesar he is a god and all the rest of us are wretched creatures who must bend our bodies and ignore the pain and suffering wrought upon us’
David | October 17, 2011 at 6:47 AM |

@balance

That statement which the late PM gave reassuring Barbadians and even those from the Eastern Caribbean will probably comeback at us later.

BU defended the statement at the time which was obviously meant to avert panic but the ‘stuff’ coming out in T&T has made everyone stepback and take another look.
anthony | October 17, 2011 at 7:40 AM |

@Sargeant

Remove the first sentence and add chrysler to gm argument still stands
. The social security never bailed out anyone. Let the government do it or at least have government guarantee. Nis has no business in it if there no government backed guarantee or proven tracked record which currently there is none

@David

Indeed it will probably come back to haunt us as a government guaranteed verbal agreement to pay all monies missing to make everyone whole
BAFBFP | October 17, 2011 at 8:24 AM |

Ah ha Anthony,

That’s the spirit … Then we build a ship building yard. Now that is capacity building. The cruise liner (hotel on wheels) will sale the seas competing for FOREIGN business around the world and the ship building yard will be used to build more …! What a plan.

You see what can come out when people put minds together? The amount of money spent on the maintenance of overseas missions over the past twenty years could have bought the Empire State Building (it is said in diplomatic circles)
BAFBFP | October 17, 2011 at 8:26 AM |

One thing you can be sure of is that the established international institutions will find a reason NOT to supply the foreign exchange to implement this plan … cutting too close to home ..
Sargeant | October 17, 2011 at 8:35 AM |

@Anthony

Social security is not in a position to bail out anyone, but I digress. You refer to private companies not being interested in investing in the project but how do we know that they have the resources available at this time? Why should Williams invest in a project that will compete against his own at the Point? There are many examples of companies hoarding cash while the peons are suffering, why are folks protesting on Wall St. and other Financial districts?

Gov’t has to provide the economic lubrication to get the engine of the country running, it can’t stand pat and wait hoping that others will step up to the plate. If NIS invests in 4S it paves the way for more contributions to NIS to the benefit of those who are receiving benefits as well as those who will receive pensions in the future. How should NIS funds be invested? The Banks will take your money and lend it to whom they think are deserving and repatriate the profits to a North American or Caribbean country where the shareholders can enjoy increased share value and luxuriate in dividends while you get 3%.

Investments in jobs are a win win for any community, someone is supporting a family, they are spending money in the community, their dollars are circulating and helping other businesses grow.
BARP member | October 17, 2011 at 8:39 AM |

Trained Economist | October 16, 2011 at 9:44 PM |
yes the same Peter Boos who was behind all the money poured into the failed world cup and world cup legacy project
!?!!?
Didnt know Boos was heavily involved in the disaster that was the world cup there should be an inquiry into wc and new kensington.
Muscle Mary poor fellow get blame for everything from empty cruise ships we still paying for to playing night cricket in a stadium without lights. I dont trust people like Boos or Decaires another man who slip in and out the wc without accountablity.
anthony | October 17, 2011 at 9:51 AM |

@sargeant

When i meant private companies meaning foreign and local don’t want to touch it with a ten foot pole I just listed local ones that would invest anthem but haven’t . They are many foreign companies that have capital to invest such as ansa merchant bank who lent government the 60 million us for clear water 4s debt clearance they are also part of the of another 25 million us for 4s construction cost so they probably have enough to finance the whole project but have wary without any government guarantee . As for earning they gat about 5.5% for treasury bill And 7.5′% for bonds
Checkit-Out | October 17, 2011 at 9:54 AM |

Barp Member; What are your views on Government utilizing NIS funds for 4S? Do you think that it is likely to have no impact on your pension or other future pensioner’s pensions?
David | October 17, 2011 at 9:59 AM |

@Sargeant

The issue here is more about transparency first and cost benefit second. We are making arguments for and against which is not informed by financial info or analytics put in the public domain. We want to know, the NIS is not somebody’s piggy bank.
millertheanunnaki | October 17, 2011 at 10:26 AM |

The Chairman of the NIB has given his commitment that the financial statements for f/y 2007 to 2009 will be ready by December 31, 2011. Presumably the will be ready for examination by stakeholders in January 2012. We hope he upholds this commitment or the the honourable thing expected from a person of his high esteem. After all he is implying that the Auditor General is a bit tardy in retuning the outstanding accounts for earlier financial years for publication.

Since CLICO started to go belly up we the public, and by extension the policy holders and investors in CLICO have been given the assurance from the present administration that they should NOT worry too much about getting back their investment. This assurance of “protecting their investment” was reinforced by public utterances of confidence in the competence of the management of the CLICO business and the soundness and security of the business finances and investment portfolio. The administration also gave the impression that the government was even prepared to play a part in bailing out the poor and unfortunate policyholders and investors should things turn out not in keeping with their optimistic expectations. The various confidence boosters and promises of security of investments that were offered up not only by the immediate former PM but also by his successors in both roles of PM and Minister of Finance should be brought under the microscope for analysis.

It will make for interesting political discourse if these words of assurances uttered from the various political heavyweights could be chronologically compiled and presented in one thread. Maybe some BLP operative can undertake this exercise and use it in their party’s armoury to attack the party who put its foot in its mouth and openly gave succour to their pal and financial backer at the top of the pyramid.
BAFBFP | October 17, 2011 at 11:26 AM |

millertheanunnaki

The operative phase of the Chairman’s comment is “or as soon there after as possible”. The Chairman has therefore committed to nothing …!
millertheanunnaki | October 17, 2011 at 12:29 PM |

@ BAFBFP:
I see what you mean! The ‘get-out’ clause appropriately appended!
But my understanding of up-to-date accounts is that of the last financial year ended sometime after May 2010 or April 201, depending on the financial year cut-of period as stipulated by the relevant legislation governing the functioning of the Board.

It is reasonable to expect the chairman to be at least basically competent enough to be able to get the accounts for 2008 and 2009 ready by the end of the calendar 2011unless there is more in the motor than just the pestle in terms of financial integrity and internal controls.
BAFBFP | October 17, 2011 at 12:34 PM |

millertheanunnaki

It is also reasonable to expect the chairman to be at least basically honorable enough to state that he is prepared to remove himself as chair should his commitments (none made so far) not be met. I respect people who put their money where their mouths have a habit of treading.
Prodigal Son | October 17, 2011 at 3:04 PM |

Months ago when I hinted on this blog that the government was spending NIS funds like drunken sailors, the Dems on this blog ridiculed me. The truth has now been revealed and now Bajans are now waking up to the fact that not only is the government spending the money but the rate at which they are doing it.

One DLP caller said today on Brasstacks that the government does not have BNB any more to borrow from so they have to use NIS funds. Another Dem said that he sees nothing wrong with borrowing NIS funds to pay the same public servants who are paying into the fund. Dems logic, for you!!!

My sources tell me that they thought Jepter Ince was bad as chairman but Phony Marshall takes the cake. He was the one who made the decision to deposit the old age pension cheques into the banks without consulting poor Esther and then she was the one who had to go on DLPTV, to announce the withdrawal of the dumb policy. Phony Marshall and the Dems perceived that the Director is a Bee. From the get go, Phony was determined to move him but the director decided that he had to be seconded not transferred to the FSC.You see, the dircetor was standing up to the board and asking them if they think that NIS funds are a free for all.

Dems think that they alone got brains.

By the way, David Ellis spits in the air and lets it fall back in his face on the issue of moderators, how else would he explain bringing back Phony, David cannot know that Phony was chief campaign adviser to Colin Spenser in 2008 and he has to know that Dems only give big picks to Dems, they would never give a pick to a BEE..
BARP member | October 17, 2011 at 3:21 PM |

Checkit-Out | October 17, 2011 at 9:54 AM | Barp Member; What are your views on Government utilizing NIS funds for 4S? Do you think that it is likely to have no impact on your pension or other future pensioner’s pensions.

I dont have a problem with govt investing in Barbados from excess NIS funds. As long as there is transparency, accountablity and truth the NIS funds can help us(the owners of NIS) out of recession. Check-Out what are your views on Hardwood, Greenland, Barrack, Veco, Dodds, Hinckson, getting paid by Owen out of the Treasury without authorisation, the 24% increase in PM salary when Owen was PM. The list goes on and on start where you feel like,
Christopher Halsall | October 17, 2011 at 3:42 PM |

@BARP member: “I dont have a problem with govt investing in Barbados from excess NIS funds. As long as there is transparency, accountablity and truth the NIS funds can help us(the owners of NIS) out of recession.

So then your question is… Is there “transparency, accountablity and truth the NIS funds”?
millertheanunnaki | October 17, 2011 at 4:06 PM |

@ Prodigal Son:
Your understanding of the turn of events does sound realistic.
The phoney marshal has to be a bit more contrite and stop trying to mislead listeners to his talk show sermons on business morality and citizens’ responsibilities to law and order and social etiquette. The former top executive of that organization was removed because he stood his ground on certain matters regarding the use of the NIS funds. He was perceived to be a BLP mole who was taking back info to OSA his godfather in climbing the executive ladder over the years.
OSA, it’s time you come out of your low-key shell and let Bajans know what is really going on with their funds. We do not have the time to wait on the publication of out-of-date so called “audited” financial statements that provide little insight into what is currently taking place with the NIS funds against the backdrop of the government’s fiscal deficit, general economic stagnation and rising unemployment (reduced contributions and higher benefits pay outs).

As implied in the press release the accounts for some earlier years (up to 2006) have been sent to the Auditor General. It’s passing strange that this financial watchdog would not want to make the return of these statements for earlier years a priority. We need some accountability and transparency in the administration of public affairs in this country.
Christopher Halsall | October 17, 2011 at 4:17 PM |

@millertheanunnaki…

Do I understand you clearly?

We simple and stupid Bajans don’t understand what has happened and what is happening because of private deals?

Please tell me I don’t understand correctly….
millertheanunnaki | October 17, 2011 at 4:18 PM |

@ BARP member:
“Check-Out what are your views on Hardwood, Greenland, Barrack, Veco, Dodds, Hinckson, getting paid by Owen out of the Treasury without authorisation, the 24% increase in PM salary when Owen was PM. The list goes on and on start where you feel like,”

Please stop focusing so much on the past and let us address the current problems we are facing. If you have knowledge that infelicities actually took place then advise the current administration to invite the Auditor General to conduct the appropriate investigations to gather the needed evidence for the police and DPP. I am certain that an upright, church-going and fair–minded senior member of our society would like to see justice being meted out to wrongdoers.
millertheanunnaki | October 17, 2011 at 4:25 PM |

@ CH:
I am not privy to any deals. But any transactions involving public funds should be subject to the acid test of transparency and accountability.
Do you agree with that principle of public finance accounting?
Christopher Halsall | October 17, 2011 at 4:33 PM |

@millertheanunnaki: “I am not privy to any deals. But any transactions involving public funds should be subject to the acid test of transparency and accountability.

Absolutely agree.

@millertheanunnaki: “Do you agree with that principle of public finance accounting?

Absolutely.

So then the question becomes, why has the public’s wish for transparency not been enabled?
BAFBFP | October 17, 2011 at 5:14 PM |

Political Parties are non-registered entities that cannot be sued by outsiders. The cannot formulate a contract and therefore cannot be challenged to stick to one. I would like to find the shite that coined the phrase “social contract”…
Truthman Burton | October 17, 2011 at 5:17 PM |

@Prodigal Son | October 17, 2011 at 3:04 PM
“My sources tell me that they thought Jepter Ince was bad as chairman but Phony Marshall takes the cake. He was the one who made the decision to deposit the old age pension cheques into the banks without consulting poor Esther and then she was the one who had to go on DLPTV, to announce the withdrawal of the dumb policy. Phony Marshall and the Dems perceived that the Director is a Bee. From the get go, Phony was determined to move him but the director decided that he had to be seconded not transferred to the FSC.You see, the dircetor was standing up to the board and asking them if they think that NIS funds are a free for all.”
*********************************************
What a thing Prodigal! What you telling me at all?
Conspiring to rid themselves of a proper career civil servant, so unchallenged access to the peoples’ money is a certainty?

Remember too that all the decisions to use NIS money as a panacea for all the governmental financial woes, as well as cheque payment decisions reside not with Phony Marshall alone.

There’s the “POLITICALLY IMPARTIAL” UWI economist Justin Robinson
(is he deputy NIS chairman? I’m not sure) who, in spite of his “impartiality” would STILL be expected (HAS TO) to be absolutely pro-government. I remember all the ruckus about Brian Francis and Clyde Mascoll, but it seems this fellow Robinson has some special privilege of “professional integrity.” Recently heard him making some lame off-hand comment about “this is a good time to be an opposition politician”
millertheanunnaki | October 17, 2011 at 5:18 PM |

@ CH:
You gave the answer in your earlier rhetoric! N’est-ce pas?
millertheanunnaki | October 17, 2011 at 5:45 PM |

@ Truthman Burton:
“but it seems this fellow Robinson has some special privilege of “professional integrity.” Recently heard him making some lame off-hand comment about “this is a good time to be an opposition politician”.

If he did make comments along this line, it certainly shows the insincerity and intellectual shallowness and simplicity of the person gassing off.
How can it ever be a good time to be in opposition in the West Indian political arena? No access to resources; no largesse to distribute to constituents; to opportunities to award contracts to help with electoral campaign financing and personal aggrandizement.

Unless this oxymoronic piece of advice is intended to inform us that things are so bad with the economy and the adjustments that have to be made are going to be so politically unpopular that the executors of these policies would certainly be carrying out political suicide.

Is that what you want for your man? Let his reputation remain in tact and his health protected from the stress that will be generated by the coming nuclear fall out on the economy and society!
David | October 17, 2011 at 5:56 PM |

Stop nitpicking you guys.

The comment is one BU has made repeatedly and simply means the landscape is ripe with issues for an opposition party to sink teeth into.
Checkit-Out | October 17, 2011 at 6:17 PM |

Barp Member; I asked
“What are your views on Government utilizing NIS funds for 4S? Do you think that it is likely to have no impact on your pension or other future pensioner’s pensions?”.

You responded:-
“I dont have a problem with govt investing in Barbados from excess NIS funds. As long as there is transparency, accountablity and truth the NIS funds can help us(the owners of NIS) out of recession. Check-Out what are your views on Hardwood, Greenland, Barrack, Veco, Dodds, Hinckson, getting paid by Owen out of the Treasury without authorisation, the 24% increase in PM salary when Owen was PM. The list goes on and on start where you feel like”.

Spoken like a true true Politician not a play-play one.

Let me start here: NIS does not have excess funds as far as I am aware or as far as has been demonstrated to the public (No audited accounts for the last several years – the actuarial study doesn’t carry as much weight). NIS funds are held in trust to service its committments to contributors in perpetuity. No one knows what will happen in the future to render the current funds that NIS holds inadequate to meet some of its future committments to contibutors. You therefore cannot talk seriously about excess NIS funds.

You did not even try to answer my second question as to whether or not current NIS policies are likely to have an impact on your personal pension or that of future pensioners. Were you avoiding it? or would you like to respond again and say why, unlike many of the pensioners I have spoken to, you seem to have no problem with the possibility of current policies negatively impacting on your or others pensions.

The press release by the Chairman of the NIB suggests that there has been minimal transparency, accountability and even truth (check some aspects of the Chairman’s press release) in the current operations of the NIS. So are you hoping for these positive attributes in the future? Why would you think they will improve, given what is happening now?

Re. the political part of your response. I know very little about Hardwood beyond some snippets from the DLP’s last election campaign and if it was a corrupt operation the principals should have been dealt with by the law by now.
Re. Greenland; treat similarly, lock up people if infelicities can be proven and it is quite possible that that project would have been partially responsible for the BLP having been swept out of power in 2007.
Re. Barrack; evidently there was no overt provable corruption there as the present government is reportedly seeking to honour its committments to Mr. Barrack.
Re. VECO; again take the matter to the lawcourts and prosecute someone. Give us facts not innuendos.
Re. Dodds; the same.
Re. Hinckson; Was he paid in any different manner to the numerous consultants under David Thompson? Was’nt employing consultants out of the public purse an ongoing practice from Barrow days? Did Owen raid the treasury and pay Hinkson out of the proceeds?
Re. Owen’s Salary; The 24% increase in PM salary by Owen is news to me. If it is true did he raise his salary by 24% in one fell swoop? Was the increase cumulative over the 14 year term? Did he raise his salary and leave the then Opposition salaries stagnant? What was the increase in the Opposition Leader’s salary over the same period?

Having said all that I think it is repugnant that politicians of all stripes can determine their salaries and benefits and do so without conscience. This is true of both parties. The Sandiford Administration did it. So too did the Owen Arthur Administration. They were both wrong. This new administration has not yet had time to do it.

Both parties pay lip service to stamping out corruption but both stay far from doing anything tangible about it (eg. FOIA). However, Imho. The current Government is likely to go down in history as perhaps the most corrupt in our recent history, bar none.
Christopher Halsall | October 17, 2011 at 6:30 PM |

@BU.David: “The comment is one BU has made repeatedly and simply means the landscape is ripe with issues for an opposition party to sink teeth into.

Which opposition party?

There is only one to currently choose from.
Christopher Halsall | October 17, 2011 at 6:55 PM |

@BU.David et al…

Does anyone but me find it odd that no Government of Barbados seems to be actually willing to enact a Freedom of Information Act?

It has been done elsewhere. Successfully.

Why not here?
David | October 17, 2011 at 7:04 PM |

@Chris

The political players in Barbados are all members of a club, enactment of the FOIA would disrupt the current arrangement.
Christopher Halsall | October 17, 2011 at 7:28 PM |

@BU.David: “The political players in Barbados are all members of a club, enactment of the FOIA would disrupt the current arrangement.

Please correct me if I am wrong, but was not the FoIA promised by at least some?
David | October 17, 2011 at 7:33 PM |

@Chris

Yes it was promised under the guise of a new politics.
BAFBFP | October 17, 2011 at 7:36 PM |

Political Parties can promise anything and everything. You as a tax payer cannot sue them. In fact they can pay for services rendered to them from the tax payers’ purse. They assume office and completely f*ck things up, and leave office without a cent to repay. The other political party will assume the responsibility of cleaning up the others mess. What a sham. Only nincompoops vote for partisan candidates …!
Christopher Halsall | October 17, 2011 at 7:37 PM |

@BU.David: “Yes it was promised under the guise of a new politics.

Was that promise fulfilled?
Christopher Halsall | October 17, 2011 at 7:41 PM |

@BAFBFP…

OK, but let’s face the facts.

Who can you vote for?
Artaxerxes | October 17, 2011 at 7:41 PM |

@ millertheanunnaki

My point exactly. The BLP paid the ultimate price for their wrong doings by losing the last general elections. During the last few months of the former administration, DLP supporters came on the Brass Tacks and Tell-it-like-it-is daily, in almost the same batting order to criticise the then government. They were ably assisted by the majority of the moderators: Tony Marshall, Dr. Don Marshall, Dr. Akentoolove Corbin, David Ellis, Maxine McClean, Peter Wickham, and Ralph Jemmott.
It seems as though the DLP has not come to terms with the fact that they are not in opposition any longer. They hold the reins of the government and will be criticise, if they merit it or not; it comes with the office. Their supporters were of the view that it was their right to use the call-in-programs, the print media, and the blogs to spread their anti-BLP political diatribe. They must accept that the DLP is not above criticism, and others also have the right to criticise them.
David | October 17, 2011 at 7:44 PM |

@Chris

it depends whether you are a D, B, independent or disillusioned.
BARP member | October 17, 2011 at 7:50 PM |

Checkit-Out | October 17, 2011 at 6:17 PM |

You replied like a true BLP operative ok here’s the last one Gems or Jaws the present BLP economic spokesman rode into the House on the back of Gems. Whats his position on Gems now, the man Clydie got my head cafofull one minute he is a Dem riding the wave of Gems hammering Arthur and the Bees next minute he riding in Owen posse, losing he seat in the House and Gems off the talking points highlights. Checkit-Out help me out on Gems will you.
BAFBFP | October 17, 2011 at 7:53 PM |

Oh dear dear, why is it so difficult for people to understand that YOU DO NOT HAVE TO VOTE! It is irresponsible to perpetuate a process that you know is corrupt at source. Irresponsible and damned stupid. You are NOT obliged to participate in this shite arrangement unless of course you are serious about changing things and that should mean participating as a candidate.
Christopher Halsall | October 17, 2011 at 7:56 PM |

@David: “it depends whether you are a D, B, independent disillusioned.

If you can think for yourselves, you have the ability to think yourself. Quod erat demonstrandum.
David | October 17, 2011 at 7:58 PM |

@Chris

Thinking is influenced by several factors, loyalty is one of them.
BAFBFP | October 17, 2011 at 8:12 PM |

I wonder what the voter turn out will be in the US next year .. Yes You Can … you people who can think for yourselves You Can pull yourselves away from this infused addiction … Yes You Can … Speak with your feet … DO NOT F#CKING VOTE …!
Christopher Halsall | October 17, 2011 at 8:31 PM |

@BAFBFP: “Speak with your feet … DO NOT F#CKING VOTE

In my opinion, that is quiet possibly the most stupid action you could possibly do.

Rather than being lazy and simply fail to show up, show up and vote for the “Klingon” party. You can write it in, you know.

This shows that you took the time to show up, but say this to the officials as you leave: “Heghlu’meH QaQ jajvam
ac | October 17, 2011 at 8:32 PM |

David i have rendered your above comment “Null and void” for the simple reason it is “unthinkable”
Checkit-out | October 17, 2011 at 9:00 PM |

BARP member; I really can’t help you out on Gems. My recollection is that I think you are right about gems and Clyde Mascoll. But what is the true relevance of that, or the other points you brought up earlier, in this discussion. Mascoll is a politician. All politicians are dirty. All politicians change their mouts when it is politically opportune for them to do so. Practically all modern politicians tend towards using corrupt practices to keep their pick. I don’t trust any of them. The B’s are no better than the D’s in that regard. However, imho, the current D’s are almost totally inept, with a few exceptions. The B’s had a track record of reasonable economic management but that is of no import at the present time given the fallout of the infighting between Owen and Mia. Barbados is in dire straits at present with no serious party to turn to. I can’t vote for either party. I think that none of them are suited to run Barbados at this time.

If that makes me a BLP operative. So be it, DLP BARP member.
millertheanunnaki | October 17, 2011 at 9:53 PM |

@ checkit-out:
I am beginning to feel the urge to join your choir. It’s a sad time for the nation when educated people start to feel so disillusioned and disinterested in the affairs of state. However, this kind of political apathy might only open the portals for dictatorial tendencies to enter the political arena or anarchy to reign. So let’s continue to swap Tweedledum for Tweedledee until the referee (divine intervention) calls off the game.
BAFBFP | October 17, 2011 at 10:04 PM |

Chris

But you see lazy has nothing to do with it, it is a complete rejection of the process. Expending energy even to show that u are prepared to show up is still signing on … DO NOT F#CKING RAS%HOLE VOTE ….! Demonstrate that you do NOT spend time on nonsense non-productive exercises ….
BAFBFP | October 17, 2011 at 10:10 PM |

The parties are NOT answerable to you. You cannot influence them in anyway. WHY BOTHER? Show the world that Barbados has woken up to the sham that is modern day Democracy. This has nothing to do with divine, and the only Tweedledums andTweedledees are the people who only help to perpetuate this shite … by voting!
Christopher Halsall | October 17, 2011 at 10:27 PM |

@BAFBFP: “But you see lazy has nothing to do with it, it is a complete rejection of the process.

But if you don’t bother to vote for anyone, you won’t even be measured.

Please tell me how not being measured is any different than being lazy?
David | October 18, 2011 at 12:21 AM |

Perhaps what BAFBFP is trying to convey is that by not voting the public can exercise civil disobedience at a political system which is controlled by a few. We don’t have the power of recall in the Westminster setup and unlike the republican system in the US which has congress and senate to pressure the executive we are held at the mercy of a two party system which is essentially a one trick pony.
balance | October 18, 2011 at 2:16 AM |

i am not too bright but smeeled the rat a long time ago and ceased voting since 1976. what puzzles me is that every time election comes around, a lot of people masquerading as intelligent refer to the process as ‘ the silly season ‘ and then lose valuable night’s sleep listening to a bunch of half baked barefaced lying actors and actresses not worth their salt masquerading as parliamentarians trying to solicit the 11% independent vote to elect them to governance. not over me, jose. i am heartened by the apparent disgruntled comments of those non-partisan commentators on this forum who sre now forced to see the light of the two party scam perpetrated on us with the connivance of the DLP ACADEMY OF POLITICS with its politics of divisiveness and acrimonious rhetoric which ushered in an era of dangerous and bitter political rivalry among black political representatives in barbados about the time when the country was freeing itself of the dominance of the white elite. i repeat as i have been repeating in this forum for some time now that both political parties have outlived their usefulness and sooner rather than later, there will be no fatted calf to kill.there has to be a new way to govern barbados for the benefit of all barbadians.
balance | October 18, 2011 at 2:50 AM |

everytime you bach the subject of something new in parliamentary governancein barbados; one asks and ‘what we gun put’. and’ who gun be the prime minister’. the long and short of the story is to ask the question – does a small country like barbados really need a primus inter-pares? should thje fate of 2075.00 thousand people be left in the hands of one man? and that is what it basically is for since 1961 , all roads have led to the premier/ prime minister. right now in this present administration we have ministwers drawing fat salaries who we do not even know still exists and i am not trying to be insulting or facetious. i did not even remember george hutson until the incompetence of the present administration was once more highlighted by the red jet fiasco.trinidad and jamaica must be laughung their heads off at we so-called bright and know all bajans. then there is the radio announcer fellow from whom we hear very little and from miss sucko-byer from whom we hear nothing. but that is not the fault of these persons who offer themselves for office, that is their right and i admire their tenacity to persevere even in ignorance; it is the fault of a system of parliamentary governance broken by a culture of political patronage fuelled by the most part by a willingness of the masses to feel important by having the power to determine an out come and by others whose gateway to progress is linked to the success of the political organisation they support. time to look at a new system where PARLIAMENTARINS ARE SELECTED FROM THE BOWELS OF THE CONSTITUENCY AND ARE ELECTED TO REPRESENT THE INTEREST OF THE COSTITUENTS IN PARLIAMENT AND THE POLITICAL EXPEDIENCY OF A BANKRUPT POLITICAL ORGANISATION. THE ROLE OF MANAGING THE SCARCE RESOURCES OF THE STATE CAN BE LEFT TO THOSE CAPABLE OF DOING SO FREE FROM POLITICAL INTERFERENCE OTHER THAN FROM PARLIAMENTARY OVERSIGHT OR APPROVAL. yes, political organisations were useful in advocating the rights of the disadvantaged in society up to and for some time after adult suffrage but have lost their way seemingly because there are litlle bread and butter issues to fight for or the era of greed has overcome them. if ever a system needed change, the present political system in the entire caribbean is in need of change to reflect the abilty to mange and use produvtively and resourcefully what little resources we have.the present system only now serves to entrench political patronage.
balance | October 18, 2011 at 3:08 AM |

david your comment ‘ that statement the late prime minister made reassuring barbadians and even those from the eastern caribbean would probably come back to us’- forgive my presumptiouness but i feel it would be more appropriaite for you to say ” come back to haunt him” but i guess you chose your words carefully because BU knows that nothing will ever happen to tarnish the stagemanaged memory of the late PM who was quite an affable personj to know.
The Scout | October 18, 2011 at 3:39 AM |

Politicians are from the society and we have a society that worships people they see as “big-ups.” as soon as a fellow gets in the House, he fits into that position and he acts that way, the thing is young people don’t even know who they are and don’t care, so they are treated like anyone else. Instead of mixing with the average man , the M.P’s now drive in their fancy vehicles wil the A/C on, it is only when elections are called that the windows come down and they start speaking to TOM, DICK and HARRY as they pass the street, yet we go back an vote them back in. Time we teach them a lesson
balance | October 18, 2011 at 4:22 AM |

YES SCOUT BUT REFRAIN FROM CONTEMPLATING ACTION OUT OF SPITE; IT CLUTTERS YOUR MIND AND CLOUDS YOUR JUDGMENT. WE HAVE TO START ADVOCATING A MOVEMENT FOR CHANGE IN THE PARLIAMENTARY SYSTEM OF GOVERNANCE MIMUS POLITIAL ORGANISATIONS. THE PRESENT ARRANGEMENT OFFERS A CHOICE BETWEEN TWEEDDLE DUM AND TWEDDLED DEE. NO CHOICE AT ALL. THE ROAD WOULD BE LONG BECAUSE THE PRESENT SYSTEM LIKE MENTAL SLAVERY IS SO ENTRENCHED IN OUR MINDS AND HAS SO PERMEATED OUR PSYCHES THAT IT WOULD TAKE SOME TIME TO DETOXIFY BUT A JOURNEY O A THOUSAND MILES BEGINS WITH A SINGLE STEP.
BAFBFP | October 18, 2011 at 4:50 AM |

I like the way this conversation is headed. To start a Refuse to Vote campaign using face book and email is definitely on the cards … The major difficulty is as always overcoming a population that is prone to be mentally enslaved. A radio station needs a measured listener-ship that is determined by some survey to entice advertising agencies to place adds with them. It is for this reason, and this reason alone that Tony “Phony” Marshall is held on as a moderator for example even with his obvious DLP ties. A political party without the numbers will not get the backing. If the numbers fall away as a demonstration of share frustration and distrust, fill in the blanks people.

Well said Balance!
ac | October 18, 2011 at 6:21 AM |

A two party system with a senate and congress. However the mighty political lobbyist in the USA wheels plenty of financial power which in turns worked against the people. There is no perfect syatem but the anser given “NOT TO VOTE’ would be counterproductive and would eventually produce a dictator .but then maybe that is what some are advocating.
KOAA-(KISS OWEN ARTHUR ASSHOLE) | October 18, 2011 at 8:12 AM |

It is clear
THE DLP must not win the next election !
millertheanunnaki | October 18, 2011 at 9:19 AM |

@ KOAA:

Please change your pseudonym if you want to be taken seriously by those who too want to see a change of administration. In the eyes of the marginal (uncommitted) voter you might be doing more harm to the man’ electoral chances of success than you think and far from kissing they might just kick him into political oblivion. Remember the mistakes made in the St. John by-election?
Every day the average man is growing tired of the current administration and if the Opposition was to be more aggressive and dynamic in their PR campaign more people might just sit up and listen. But please don’t sully the man’s reputation by associating it with your crassness.
seeker | October 18, 2011 at 10:14 AM |

You vote….you get idiot spoilt brats…

You DON’T vote…you get an idiot spoilt dictator brat…

Oh boy…
enuff | October 18, 2011 at 10:38 AM |

@ balance
Who will appoint these ‘Cabinet’ members after all politics is NOT only about political parties?

It is not the system, but the psyche of the electorate that must change: our expectations of MPs and our unwillingness to join political parties. I don’t want a politician at my door before, during or after elections!! I should be able to judge my representative based on his/her behaviour and performance as a parliamentarian and/ or Minister. Secondly, we must become involved in political parties since that is the only way we can influence the QUALITY of who is selected to contest a seat to represent us in Parliament and possibly sit in Cabinet.

Lest we forget, Dr. Byer-Suckoo was a regular on CBC tv during the early stages of her tenure, yet she has accomplished next to nothing so hearing/seeing means little.
Bush Tea | October 18, 2011 at 11:46 AM |

@ BAFBFP

Don’t vote!!! THAT is your solution? Shame….

That is the same logic that led blacks to become long term slaves.
How about this….

1- BARP and the Credit Union leaders (The Congress) get together and put up a plan of action and a panel of candidates for the ‘Peoples Party’.

2- Each nominee signs an undated letter of resignation to be held by the Congress

3 – Congress appoints a National Supervisory Committee chaired by Caswell.

4 – In the next elections, Bajans elect this team to execute the agenda documented by the Congress.

5. Caswell’s committee will be responsible for FOI and transparency; the Congress can date and accept any letter of resignation as needed.

No charge for the Bushman’s consultancy….. and Bushie’s hero Ed Bushell is the perfect chairman for the congress…..
BAFBFP | October 18, 2011 at 12:08 PM |

Bush Tea

Forgive me. But I just keep forgetting about the Credit Union as being the engine of true social change. I don’t know, it is probably the modern face of the movement that makes me wanting to be dismissive of your plan. I think it is brilliant … really but I believe that the movement is already very corrupted.

Unfortunately for me my plan as AC has alluded to, has no “end game”. I am NOT opposed to dictatorship. There are many examples of successful ones in history. But the system can go seriously wrong on occasion, and that scares everyone including me.

So I will modify thoughts to a “Vote for Independent or Do not Vote At All” campaign (independent includes credit union candidate of course). I accept that the opportunity to change a government must not be lost. But I will NOT be part of a Tweedledum and Tweedledee campaign … I do not have the time!
BAFBFP | October 18, 2011 at 12:15 PM |

By the way BT, drop the term party from any campaign, and for Christ sake NO BARP members as candidates … If you suggest that the movement is listed as a Registered Association or an NGO that is prepared to make solid promises through written contracts then I will most certainly throw my considerable clout (ja ja) behind your idea
David | October 18, 2011 at 12:17 PM |

@BAFBFP

You dream is still born.

Both parties have a 30%+ support who will vote party regardless.

As far as the credit union mover goes it has departed from its early philosophical moorings. Bear in mind when you subtract the top four from the 30+ number we have: what is left?
enuff | October 18, 2011 at 12:46 PM |

David you should be party leader…lmao
BAFBFP | October 18, 2011 at 1:47 PM |

David

30% + 30% equals 60%. I truly believe that over one hundred and eighty years ago it was at least 60% of the population that were comfortable with slavery, the way things were. It is the same mindset today and yet 100% of the population (minus the principals of major contractors and public life personalities) would agree that change is needed. This is like an 80-20 principle.

As Balance would say, one step at a time my friend.
Christopher Halsall | October 18, 2011 at 1:59 PM |

@BAFBFP and BU.David et al…

And what is 100% – 60%?

What is 40% plus 30%?

A third party could actually have a lot of power….
lemuel | October 18, 2011 at 2:10 PM |

How do you account for the political animal who shall join this brave movement; he or she shall say and do everything that is required. While waiting breathlessly to grab hold of the balance of power. People, the balance of power factor is what really counts in political parties and especially in systems of shared political power. Believe you me, this is where the true bajan animal gets going no fuss but deadlier than the black death on a virgin population.
Christopher Halsall | October 18, 2011 at 2:23 PM |

@lemuel… I appreciate your cynicism…

But at least one Canadian politician is doing what they promised.

The Mayor of Calgary is amazing, IMHO…

http://calgarymayor.ca/

(Oh, BTW, he’s Muslim.)
Bush Tea | October 18, 2011 at 2:56 PM |

@ BAFBFP
Think about it for a while.

The best that we can do as a Nation is all that we can expect. If indeed we are all a set of idiots then we will get what idiots always get…. Which is where we are headed now anyway…

Assuming that there is a glimmer of hope and that some semblance of wisdom and leadership still exists, then it behoves us to seek to exploit that possibility.

Why the Credit Unions and BARP?
Because these are the two largest and most democratic institutions in the country with the capacity to influence members to act in a coordinated way. …..It is not that they are perfect or wise…
Hopefully they would want this country to succeed badly enough to insist on having competent persons in government….just like we would here on BU.

@ Lemuel & David
Bush Tea believes that there are about five hundred so called “political animals” in Barbados. About 10% of whom are BU contributors. Most of us see the whole thing as Hobson’s choice and would GLADLY opt for a sensible arrangement such as the one proposed.

The ’60%’ of whom you speak are the usual sheep who will follow anyone anywhere so long as there are grazings…

Laugh at BT’s plan if you wish…. Want to bet that it will be implemented under BBE’s tenure?
Bizzy brother in law | October 18, 2011 at 3:17 PM |

the Barbados Labour Party infiltrating BARP.
members better watch it a fracture of Mia and Owen proportions could happen in the blink of an eye.

Bushell a leader is he neutral? No way Jose.
a word to the wise
David | October 18, 2011 at 3:51 PM |

@BT

BARP and the Credit Union maybe influential as far as what is possible but believe it or not the same tired politicking is alive and well. Surprisingly you will stumble on the same faces!
Bush Tea | October 18, 2011 at 4:04 PM |

@ David
Politicking is alive and well everywhere. In families, church, the office etc. Is that not what democracy is?
The only fail is to sit back and do nothing. If most of us are idiots then we deserve idiot politicians; if most of us are BLP then we deserve them etc….
The problem comes if most of us were smart and yet we allow 500 idiotic parasites to run our lives…. As happens when we sit back and do nothing
David | October 18, 2011 at 4:14 PM |

@BT

Have to agree with your last comment.

The same can be stated for how we manage the crime situation.

You know what they say when good men do nothing…
BAFBFP | October 18, 2011 at 4:53 PM |

You know David

I do not agree with BT’s last comment because I do not believe that most of us posses the smarts to know when we are being hoodwinked …. It is the essence of “democracy’s” survival over the years and those who advance themselves by it know that “You DO fool MOST of the people ALL of the time”. People like the same Tony Marshall thrive in organizations like BARP. I am going along with BT because it is a start.
Bush Tea | October 18, 2011 at 5:22 PM |

@ BAFBFP
Thanks for the vote of confidence. You looking like a good deputy chairman to Caswell. LOL

Of course you are right about people’s propensity to be fooled all of the time, however you will find that there is a form of government that actually works to the benefit of the majority. IT IS CALLED A COOPERATIVE….and Caswell is a true exponent of the philosophy.

It is no coincidence that Credit Unions have had the kind of successes that we have seen all over the world. The only reason that they are branded as ‘minor’ entities is because of the difficulty of getting away with thievery; the enforced transparency; and the enforced democracy.

A cooperative government would be a global model that could establish a completely new paradigm…. And we can do it by next election in Barbados.

How about you take the lead David?
All you need to do is call a meeting of two dozen or so leaders from BARP and the leading CREDIT UNIONS to draft a proposal…. Or better yet to review and accept a proposal drafted here on BU….

The rest will be history…….
ac | October 18, 2011 at 6:01 PM |

I don’t care what name you used or who the members are . Money would always be the lynch pin that grease the wheel . Money corrupts !it is what makes the world go around. So tell me BAF and others of the “NEW FUck…..ng PARTY” how wunna gonna fix that.
BAFBFP | October 18, 2011 at 6:48 PM |

ok David

Let’s make history. You’ve got the popular web-site and face book page, I could supply you with paraphernalia, your Tee Shirt designs and meaningful cartoons for email distribution, a couple of your respondents on this blog could help sell the idea to the Credit Union (I myself am not a member) … I have got a fairly large email list (compliments the Central Bank and others) I am anxious to go
Checkit-Out | October 18, 2011 at 6:53 PM |

Remember the Cooperative Government of Guyana under Forbes Burnham
balance | October 19, 2011 at 12:08 AM |

enuff do not get carried away by this ‘Cabinet’ stuff. like political parties and the role of the GovernorGeneral, ‘Cabinet’ too has outlived its usefulness only serving now to allow a select few hardly worth their salt to lord over the majority and assume an air of false importance bordering on the egoistical.Cabinet is an integral part of the system of governance of the united kingdom which functions because unlike here it is answerable to parliament in the UK. in Barbados on the other hand, Parliament is at present serving to rubber stamp the actions of cabinet and by extension stifling and eliminating the checks and balances which the establishment of these two arms of government were intended to provide. that is why i am calling for a new form of parliamentary governance to rid the country musical chair type governance with which we are daddled every five years.
balance | October 19, 2011 at 12:34 AM |

rather than wasting precious energy in going through the useless motion of picketing the light and power to no avail; why not let us channel our energies instead in trying to organise a movement for real change to our system of governance and to hell with these nincompoop politicians who are fostered upon us through a bankrupt political system which feeds upon a cleverly imposed and over time entrenched belief that attaining membership in one or the other of these organisations is a way of life and there can be nothing better. wake up my friends and disabuse yourselves of this silly notion by reflecting on the sacrifices our grandfathers and grandmothers made so that their children would be able to think for themselves and not like them be caught in the clutches of mental slavery by virtue of ethnicity or classism. our foreparents would not rest comfortably in their graves if they can for one moment know that that all their toiling in the broiling sun has gone to naught because their offspring have substituted one form of mental slavery for another. down with this anachronistic form of governance. let these professional political fleas from both sides of the aisle look for honest work and let parliamentary democracy of the people, for the people and by the people prevail. parliament could be comprised of various committees/ ministries suitably and independently advised to oversee the work of the technocrats who are answerable to parliament and can do their work professionally without fear of political victimisation.
Sargeant | October 19, 2011 at 1:09 AM |

BAFBFP

If you don’t like political parties you should move to Northwest Territories (Canada). It has a non partisan system and consensus government, no political parties and members are elected as Independents. After the election they meet and select a Premier and Executive Council (Cabinet) from among the elected members.

There is one caveat should you want to move “it is cold enough to freeze the balls off a brass monkey”.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Northwest_Territories_general_elections#Voting_and_consensus_government
balance | October 19, 2011 at 6:01 AM |

bafbpf it is not about liking or disliking political parties and they deserved to be disliked having unashamedly abused our trust and taken me and you for a ride without remorse.thanks for the info well meaning or not anyhow. at least its a start.
ac | October 19, 2011 at 6:09 AM |

Will this new formed barbados government accept campaign financing and from whom?
David | October 19, 2011 at 6:43 AM |

Keep chatting people.

The idea is appealing, the devil is always in the detail.
lemuel | October 19, 2011 at 7:33 AM |

To bush tea;
I had a good laugh with our view of the bajan political animals. You are right about their participation on this blog. I would have a problem with the BARP providing some form of leadership. Most of those people in BARP would have had a hand in the mess that this country is in right now. I know that we bajans tend to look up to them but I would rather not get a stiff neck doing so. We need fresh bright people to carry this country forward not people tainted with the lodges, family and friends syndrome and political opportunism. An apt description of the Billie Milers and Ed Bushells in BARP.
balance | October 19, 2011 at 9:35 AM |

there will be no need for campaign financing in the sense that parties need contributions from snake in the grass operatives masquerading as business waiting to pounce on and divide the fatted or lean calf for favours given at the 4expense of he population as a whole. parliamentarians and note i say PARLIAMENTARIANS and no POLITICIANS would emerge from the bowels of the constituency they seek to represent through internal constituency elections between persons nominated by the various groups within the constituency. parliamentarians would be elected to bring the problems/needs of their constituents to parliament. particular needs would be addressed by the appropriate oversight committees of parliament headed by a parliamentarian properly advised and suitably staffed to mahe decisions objectively and professionally. policy decisions taken will be forwarded to the appropriate technocrats falling under the umbrella of the oversight committee for action which would then be approved by the oversight committee of parliament. the promulgation of laws passed in parliament wiill emerge from the constituency through the advocacy of the representative. obviously, not everthing coming from the constituency will pass parliament but unlike now where politicians sit in parliament for in excess of 25 years and cannot even to their cedit point to a piece of legislation, hopefully parliamentarians acting independently of party constraints will now have that window of opportunuty to make meaningful contribution to parliamentary debate.come on ac you strike me as a thinker. we need to do something not just sit and have a field day laughing at the system of selective non- goverance thrust upon us.
Checkit-Out | October 19, 2011 at 1:04 PM |

Mightn’t a simple but utopian solution be to put a legal ban on Political parties per se. Let each parliamentarian fight for his seat on his own merit. Let each parliamentarian represent agreed special interest groups; e.g. the youth, the aged, Big Business, Small business, Law and order, labour, agriculture, commerce, tourism, distributive sector, public service etc. etc. There would be no St Andrew or other parochial representatives.

The representatives would meet and choose a prime minister (for lack of a better word at this time) from among them, and a leader (read Minister) for each of the interest groups. That would constitute the “cabinet”.

The ministerial and parliamentary salaries and perks would be very attractive to ensure that the parliamentarians would have no excuse for succumbing to corrupt practices. There would be strict integrity legislation and FOIA rules instituted and enforced. Anyone suspected of being involved in corruption would be investigated, tried and, if convicted, severely punished.

I said it was utopian, but when the idea is fleshed out it might be found workable, especially for survivors in a post apocalypse world.
BAFBFP | October 19, 2011 at 1:34 PM |

Checkit-Out

Your idea for the lower house composition is exactly the same that I have held for years, but for the Senate where each seat is filled as you say, and each represented entity decides for itself the manner and timing for the change in representation to be made.

Now you obvious have allot of insight “Remember the Cooperative Government of Guyana under Forbes Burnham” … You are right of course, because if there ever was to be a true Cooperative government in Barbados, ALL of the White people ’bout hey like John would pack there bags and lef …! The question is, can Barbados do better than the Guyana experience and survive that? Hmmmm….

Sarge

I am on ebay looking for affordable winter clothes … I am good to go. How are race relations in that part of the world? You see the problem of course …
ac | October 19, 2011 at 5:41 PM |

@ Balance
I am not laughing.However another question. When you speak of Parliamentarians. would this include some of the “Boys on the Block” i meaning i thinking your plan might be of the grass root level or maybe i am wrong. You need to fill me in on who these Parliamentarians would be.
ac | October 19, 2011 at 5:50 PM |

@check it Out

“Interest Group” Well ha ha . That is the same as using the C word. No ! No ! no more inteest Groups . Now check it out you have taken the wheels right off the wagon. Please don’t say Lobbyist !
Question: Why wouldany one be corrupted? as stated in your plan they would be no need for corruption as every one would be well paid.
I think you have shown a lack of trust in your own plan.Not good!
Bush Tea | October 19, 2011 at 6:36 PM |

@ BAFBFP
man you like you making sport with a serious issue yuh…
not bragging, but this is a serious workable proposal.

To answer some of the points raised…
1. There would be little need for campaign funding by the eventual managers of the country since they will be selected for nomination by interview long before the election day. It would be much more like a job application and interview for suitability than a political nomination.

2. Lemuel, let us face it. We have what we have in Barbados. What would you do? Look for unblemished outsiders? BARP represents experience and maturity (don’t you think some of them are fed up with all the nonsense just like us here?) and most of all, it represents a LARGE organized block of BAJANS. Same for the Credit Union.

No doubt other groups can also be invited, once they represent large enough blocks of Barbadians and meet basic organizational standards.

3. The selected nominees will NOT be allowed to set the agenda. They will merely be hired to execute the manifesto. This will be known and published BEFORE they apply for the positions.

A VERY critical component will be the National Committee of Supervisors (Caswell’ committee) whose role will be to ensure transparency, fairness, freedom of information and audit. Check the Cooperative model – it works.

The thing about this approach is that we can do it without any fanfare – using existing systems.

STEPS
A – David coordinates a policy document here on BU which outlines the broad strategy and guidelines to be followed. It also sets out the main objectives to be achieved by the elected representatives

B – (David?) sets up the initial meeting of named persons representing the mass based groups. They arrange their respective groups to endorse and ratify the document and endorse the initial Congress to represent them.

C- the congress invites applications from potential candidates for the various roles to be played. Full CVs and resume and past work references will be key in the interview process.

D – The congress then selects candidates for nomination at the next General elections (30 nominees) based on a transparent interview process.

E – The various organizations then adopt the selected candidates and presumably support them in the next election
Bush Tea | October 19, 2011 at 6:48 PM |

@ checkit-out

Raising the Guyana “cooperative” Republic is like raising concerns about a church because of the Jonestown church incident.

Different plan….
Checkit-Out | October 19, 2011 at 7:20 PM |

ac; I was just throwing out ideas, brainstorming, if you will.

First of all. I think that the party political system is a large part of the problems that we have in this country. So demolish it and get back to the original parliamentary plan. Individual representatives not parties. Ensure that no parties or groups that could be considered as parties could take part in the process.

Just ideas.

Next, With modern technology there is no overarching needs for parish representation. Barbados has become one big village, with everyone being able to get from one part of the island to the furthest part in half hour or less and communications are instant by phone, computer, etc.. You could have a version of the old vestry system or the new parish councils to get down-to the earth inputs from the parish level.

Re. interest groups. that was a bad choice of words. I really meant economic and social sectors. The people putting such a system together would have to develop a coherent, all inclusive list of areas for which there would be representation. Indeed, the short abridged list of essential ministries that Caswell put together might be a good place to start. So that there might be 8 or so of these sectors. Each sector would have 4 representatives. e.g. if Commerce was such a group the 4 reps would be drawn from anywhere in the Island and would all have some business experience or training. If Science and Technology were another, the reps would have to show experience and training in that area. Similarly for all the other areas. One of the reps would be voted by the sectoral group to sit in the cabinet.

Corruption is one of the big problems in the current system and will continue to be. Barbados is a small Island. It can afford to pay a few people well and maintain them well for a system with term limits. Two terms and you are thanked for your service an go elsewhere. Despite good pay corruption will raise its ugly head. To stamp it out make retribution sure and swift. confiscate property. shame corrupt representatives. Make them ineligible to get certain jobs in the future. Jail them. Once a few are made examples of the others will swiftly fall in line.

Any apparent lack of trust I might have in such a system is how to get the current lot on both sides to agree to any system that will stop their gravy train. Perhaps the coming meltdown might be so bad that the people will ensure that none of the current lot can offer themselves again for national service and leave a place for new, forward thinking persons.
ac | October 19, 2011 at 9:42 PM |

@BUSH TEA

you know with job interview it is all about who you know. So how do the selectors deal with that problem. Can I say Exhibit A Corruption!
balance | October 19, 2011 at 10:12 PM |

it seems that there is somelight at the end of the tunnel chckiyout but i am waiting with bated breath to hear ccc, david and others of like mind.
David | October 19, 2011 at 10:25 PM |

@balance

You obviously missed the comment.

The discussion is healthy, carry on smartly.

Even in this instance you couldn’t help but take a swipe at BU.
BAFBFP | October 19, 2011 at 10:39 PM |

BT

I am being serious. I am game to play a role. I ain’ saying no more, I like the plan as implementable. nuff said
Sargeant | October 19, 2011 at 11:05 PM |

@BAFBFP

I think race relations are mostly fine but the majority population is First Nations and there are several official languages including Cree but I don’t think that you will find too many people looking like you.

You might also have to get used to some traditional foods e.g. Caribou, Artic char, Seal and Whale.

Check the reaction when Canada’ former Governor General visited Nunavut (which used to be part of Northwest Territories) and ate some raw seal during a visit.

So don’t pack your bags yet.

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/640588

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/governor-general-applauded-denounced-for-eating-raw-seal/article1153869/
Bush Tea | October 19, 2011 at 11:18 PM |

@ ac
The Job Intviews may not be perfect but with a transparency regime in place (like Caswell reviewing the records and looking through the meeting minutes which document the work of the interviewers) it probably can’t get much better.

Secondly, even if the wrong persons are hired, unless they are very competent and productive, both them and the selection panels would be “reviewed” (remember that they have pre signed letters of resignation)

It will be a case of perform or move on….

Same rule for the Congress. Unless they choose the best candidates who perform as promised, they too will be replaced.

…and unless the supervisors keep everything above board, we will change them as well….

What you get is a “managed” system.
The Scout | October 19, 2011 at 11:44 PM |

The problem with this two party system is that every elections , some hardwork politician is put on the back burner and replaced by someone who knows little and not willing to listen. The time has come when the best from either party should be selected or elected to serve this country. Therefore if Min X is doing a good job and his party loses the elections, he/she should still be able to remain in office and be matured enough to function in the interest of the country.
The Scout | October 19, 2011 at 11:53 PM |

The alternative to that would be to form a third party, concentrate on the weaker seats from both parties and try winning those. Let’s say the DLP wins 12 seats and the BLP 12 seats, then the new party wins 6 seats, that party force it’s way into becoming the party to form a coalition with either party and form the government, hence a foot into the door for a new party and the break up of this two party system, where these politicians play “pass the baton” with the voting public. Whatever, something has to be done to change this antiquated system that now exist; the only ones benefitting are the politicians themselves.
balance | October 20, 2011 at 5:28 AM |

no, no, no david i did not mean to put you on the spot deviously. i just wanted more of your input. and scout, the road would be hard and we might not live to swee the light but i am trying to avoid a system where the party organisation influences policy because we are seeing the results of a hitherto worthwhile venture introduced to eliminate injustices, correct imbalances and improve the lot of the disadvantaged now used for personal gain. we blame and curse the politician but the fault does not lie solely with him or her but the system of mendicancy and patronage in which they are forced to operate to survive; and it is the system which promotes musical chair governance every five years which encourages this intolerable situation, if the politician helps from the public purse, he is a thief and if he doesn’t, he in do nothing for vme. there was a time in barbados when there was no cabinet government and the country was managed effectively. ttrue a lot of us were marginalised and organised political institutions with their genesis in trade unions agitated for the changes we now enjoy. but like in everything else, the institutions have become a law unto themselves and have either lost sight of the lofty objectives of government for the people , by the people and of the people to the objective of government of the party and then the people. they no longer have a philosophy and therefore no meaningful purpose and it is time that something new be put in place to address the challenges these 2by 3 econnomies are facing and will continue to face in achaning world environment. i therefore propose a system of governance where the paramountcy of political institurtions as a factor of governance on the landscape be put vin abeyance. who knows. perhaps in another era there might be reasons to resurrect these institutions again but at this juncture in our development they serve no purpose. as i mention. a would be selected from within the constituency and elected to parliament through inter constituency elections. he/she can be nominated by interest groups or could be independent. as in all campaigns, he/she would have a chance to tell the constituents why they should be elected to parliament at open air meetings/ town hall/ hose to house but they will all be provided with the forum to intercouse and interact with the constituents out of the public purse. having been elected to parliament, committees/ministries of parliament chaired by the peoples representatives and suitably staffed by qualified advisers and paid out of the abundance of money they now waste on parliamentary excesses( and if you doubt me check the parliamentary vote in the estimatee and asked what is it really used for) yes staffed by these advisers who would give the comittes best possible advice on policy matters( little chance of taxpayers saddled with white elephants like sherbourne, greenland, kensington, carcargo,coverley,carsicot, the thing to the top of newton, and non-functioning statutory boards which only serve to assist the incumbent minister with votes at election time at the expense of the good of tthe country but that is the system) these committees would forward the approved policy to the public service arm for comment, further scrutiny and execution.( no need for political bias in the awarding of contracts and the procurement of services. no room for prme minister or the minister’s man to emerge as a front man or tin god like the carlton bratwithes, the hallam nicholls, the barracks to name a few) the majority of the procedures of parliament would remain the same except that parliamentary expenditure would come uder greater scrutiny by an independent across the board constituency commission of parliament; but there will be no throne speech with all due respect to the crown and great britain from whom we have learnt much and whose best practices we have adopted have kept us in good stead over the years.; so there will be no governor general, the post in these times is unproductive and a drain on the already scarce resources of the country.the person nominated as speaker during the parliamentary term can read the policy of parliament for the country at the commencement of the parliamentary sitting and can perform perform the role of the governor general visiting people reaching 100 and going to the races and such other non- productive mundane tasks.there will be a leader of the house selected from amony the parliamentarians who will carry out the mundane tasks now performed by the prime minister. policy decisions for the country will reside with parliament and not with one man and when the man feels like his henchmen.the branches of government would consist of parliament to address the concerns of the constituents first and foremost. promulgate policy and apporove decisions. then there will be the executive/administrative arm to execute policy.
balance | October 20, 2011 at 5:52 AM |

another which is apparent in th esystem of governance is that it seems that the culture of mendicancy and patronage determines the the positions the media take and one does not know what to believe. principle is thrown outof the window in all the circumstances. the media indulge in self serving reporting and do not hold the politicians to account for their actions or statements and they get away with murder and so tthink that they can function with impunity; but that is the environment which has evolved from the system and in which the unsuspecting or naive majority accept and support unwittingly. tahe mr arthur’s statement when miss mottley was pilloried over her condoms in prison comment and his removal of her from attorney general to the ministry of economic affirs. mr arthur in his interview with the media castigated those for in my words sullying miss mottley’s character and about her switch in ministries indicated contrary to opinion he was positioning miss mottley for higher office by giving her an opportunity to be more rounde. check the interviews for yourselves. and now mr arthur could come with impunity and put a different spin about miss mottley to the public and not a whimper from the ineffective fourth estate.o’reilly would say the spin stops here and corner him with clips of the two contrasting statements. similarly, mr thompson went all about barbados telling the public that if he is elected before the ink dries on the sale of barbados shipping and trading to the trinidad company that he would stop the sale. he was elected and the ink was not dried and the sale went on and not a whimper from the media.and there are numerous instances of our leaders doublespeaking and not put on the spot. why, because of the system of governance which breeds mendicancy.
balance | October 20, 2011 at 6:05 AM |

david i am not the fountain of all wisdom but i am totalling fed up with the system as practised and for some time have been trying to come up with ideas for an alternative. my comments are intended to stir debate and hear other views and ideas on my suggestion.
ac | October 20, 2011 at 6:39 AM |

@BUSH TEA

First you got to get rid of the apperance of Corruption and that would not be easy giving one person Power in am oversight Board would sooner or later lead to such.
David | October 20, 2011 at 6:46 AM |

@balance

Noted.

To clarify your point about how the traditional media is currently being manipulated, and you are right, hope you are not saying that the new dispensation being proposed must encroach into the world of the Fourth Estate?
Bush Tea | October 20, 2011 at 7:37 AM |

@ac
What are you talking about now? What giving one person “power on an oversight board” what?!!

You don’t know how a credit union works? Must the bush man spell out every detail?

Caswell’s name is used liberally because he is the Bushman’s friend for years now…plus he exemplifies the kind of personality and morals that would be needed for such a committee. It would take a man with real balls to stand up to the kind of pressures that will surely come… Why you think BAFBFP is nominated for deputy? Even David Ellis frighten for he…..

So it is NOT one person ac, it is a whole team. It has been working successfully in Barbadian cooperatives for decades…..

@ balance
Sound analysis of the problem with political parties. However “independent” candidates are no better, the bribery and mendicancy is just a lot dirtier.

What we need is some over aching principles being applied. In the old days it was based on religious morals….but those days are long gone…

The cooperative principles which give power to the people through committees is our next best bet….PLUS it has worked well here for decades.

@Scout
A third party is just more divisiveness. Not even worth the thought.
lemuel | October 20, 2011 at 8:02 AM |

It seems obvious to me that few of the view offered here are steeped or exposed to marxist thought. For the most part, that is what is being proposed by most of you. Check the maurice bishop experiment; it start with all the gusto that is here, but failed on the shore of outside serious political pressure for the USA and human fallibility. In short, any established system is only as good as those who run it; given man’s natural tendency to lord over all and sundry, I do not hold much hope that we have the men and women with sufficient balls to pull this off. I however must admit that I enjoyed reading through all of the pieces. Power, my friends, is intoxicating ; ask robert mugabe.
The Scout | October 20, 2011 at 4:25 PM |

Bush Tea
I just put forward two suggestions for debate and future discussions and or suggestions. However, things CANNOT continue as usual, a new system has to be found. The type of politics practised now, will cause thousands to stay away from the polls, then whichever party wins, it would be by default. WE ARE THE EMPLOYERS OF THE POLITICIANS, IT’S TIME WE SHOW THEM WHO IS BOSS.
enuff | October 20, 2011 at 4:40 PM |

Has the way to Utopia be found?
The Scout | October 20, 2011 at 6:36 PM |

enuff
We don’t have to find a way to Utopia, I remember some time ago St lucia was struck with a problem, George Odlum and Louisy were fighting for leadership within a coalition party. The problem could not be resolved and the St lucian gave them a deadline to solve it. When the deadline was reached and nothing done, St.Lucian went on strick, they shut down the country and the matter was resolved immediately. Bajans have to get a little pain to get gain, we have to send a serious message to both parties that this “hanky-pankying” has to stop and they MUST take the citizens into their confidence and they themselves MUST measure up to transparentcy and integrety; Let us demand the act to be passed or we will strick, shut down the country.
Hants | October 20, 2011 at 7:20 PM |

When the economy is “booming” and people lining duh pockets nuhbody looking fuh moral leadership.

When recession hit people lookin fuh new ideas,new direction,new leadership.

Canadians take de easy way out. They blame immigrants fuh tekkin way jobs.

When the recession ends it will be back to “pass de Courvoisier,”.
enuff | October 20, 2011 at 7:27 PM |

@ Scout
We need competent, inspirational, visionary, analytical, bold, well-rounded MPs/Ministers who are also selfless and know what being ethical entails. Integrity and transparency, though worthy, are therefore not a panacea for good governance.
It must start with the QUALITY of individuals s/elected to run, and rather than start a new party or shut down B’dos we need to become active members of the organisations responsible for this process. Change must come from within.
The Odlum and Louisy impasse led to a strike in St.Lucia years ago, BUT today the current St. Lucian government is mired in scandal. We want short-term solutions and repetition, or real long term change?
BAFBFP | October 20, 2011 at 8:58 PM |

I believe that as we speak over fifty percent of the Ministers in Government are over en away … Don’ let nah body fool you, we got money enuf ta burn …
millertheanunnaki | October 20, 2011 at 9:10 PM |

@ BAFBFP:
Is that the reason for the 2 weeks recess of the House of Long Talk? Imagine these guys just returned to work – Oct. 4th, I believe after a very long “summer” break- to conduct the people’s business and in only 2 sittings they are off on holiday again. Then certain people got the demonic gall to talk about PRODUCTIVITY and the need to reduce wastage and improve efficiency.
ac | October 20, 2011 at 9:13 PM |

With all the discontent and distrust with lawyers would they be allowed to participate in the new formed government or will they ostricized.
Christopher Halsall | October 20, 2011 at 9:23 PM |

@ac: “With all the discontent and distrust with lawyers would they be allowed to participate in the new formed government or will they ostricized.

Since most of the current politicians are lawyers, it is logical to assume that they will be allowed to participate.

Isn’t it?
Checkit-Out | October 20, 2011 at 10:11 PM |

Peter Boos responds to Tony Marshall in an article on page 11 of tonights’s Barbados Today.
millertheanunnaki | October 20, 2011 at 10:14 PM |

@ CH:
Your sense of logic always amazes me. You remind me of a being I once met on the planet Vulcan by the name of Spock. Any relation? I am taking the mick (LOL!!). Just my imagination running away with me!
millertheanunnaki | October 20, 2011 at 10:33 PM |

@ Checkit-out:
Thanks! I ‘ll have a look.
But the marshal had the flaming cheek to use the programme this morning as a soap box to peddle bare propaganda. A moderator should not be so openly biassed. If he wants to justify his ineffective time in the chair let him do it through press releases even if at the expense of the poor NI contributors. Mr. Boos should be entitled to similar air time to put his case to those who listen and not necessarily read the papers or the underground press (5th Estate).

The marshal does not entertain criticism of the organization under his chair and seldom grudgingly allows criticism of the current administration, even of the constructive or benign kind.
islandgal246 | October 20, 2011 at 11:44 PM |

Hants | October 20, 2011 at 7:20 PM |
When the economy is “booming” and people lining duh pockets nuhbody looking fuh moral leadership.

Hantsie yuh got muh laughning and yuh right too. So pass de bay rum fuh muh dat is all I cud afford to bade muh headache . But dem did blaming de Guyanese, when yuh boy David got in he promised to gets the rid of dem and he dd. He exported nuff ah dem. So who dey gine blame now? De party in power of course LOLLLLL
islandgal246 | October 20, 2011 at 11:45 PM |

Hantsie …Pass de Mountain dew too!
balance | October 21, 2011 at 6:21 AM |

nothing is perfect but even if justice is not done bevause of unaviodable imperfections and the human species being what it is- the procedures in place should be such that justice must be seen to have been done. there will always be corruption so that is not the main issue ac; the main issue is about governance and if we can develop something which offers relevant governance and which can bring back that trust in the sysyem of governance then it might change the mindset of the youth for example who see what we have practicing as governance to be a hoax. iimagine a judge sentencing a man heavily for the use of cocaine and you go in his chambers after sentencing and see him snorting. that is the negative perception the youth of tomorrow have of the system and they have reason not to care or show respect because they are taught anything goes. but back to the point, in the new dispensation, there is little need for patronage so they will not have to skew their reporting to satisfy any particular interest. remember, there will be no political party to fear. and ac, the chairman will be a chairman and will only have one vote in the vaffairs of the particular comittee he heads.
balance | October 21, 2011 at 6:26 AM |

ac- parliamentarians would be selected from their constituencies even you will have the opportunity to go up the steps of parliament if you are nominated or run as an independent and is elected by the constituency.
enuff | October 21, 2011 at 8:42 AM |

@ balance
The reality is WE are all political, and in my humble opinion I see nothing wrong with having pro-DLP, pro-BLP and anti-DLP&BLP moderators/columnists. Robust debate of ‘opposing’ views is good for our society! Problems arise when these individuals pretend to be apolitical; and also when there is no access to alternative views within the same medium as is the case with CBC tv.
Ping Pong | October 21, 2011 at 10:08 AM |

In the last week, newspapers report that the government has made two assaults on the concept of the citizen’s right to property. The first assault was the attempt to pass the Antiquities Bill and the second, the declaration to compulsory acquire the land of one person so as to benefit another citizen. The situation with the Antiquities Bill is extremely disturbing. The Senate raised many cogent questions about the bill which were accepted by the Government senators. It strikes me odd that Minister Lashley, who is an attorney, could not recognise the constitutional issues raised by Senator Newton and neither could any of the other 29 MP’s (i.e.both BLP and DLP) when the bill was passed in the lower house. That the bill (in identical form) was first presented by the previous BLP administration is testimony to the lack of any philosophical mooring by BOTH political parties to defend and act in accordance with the Constitution or any other publicly stated set of values in the interest of the common good other than expediency,appeal to the lowest denominator and laziness.

To reinforce my disquiet, today’s newspapers report that the Government intends to compulsory acquire part of the property of one individual to make available to another private interest. This is an unsettling use of the State’s power to compulsory acquire property. To my knowledge, such power has been exercised to the direct benefit of the public i.e to allow the building of a school, heath centre, police station, roads, public housing etc. That this power is now to be exercised to the benefit of a privately operated company is a most curious development.

However, laudable the intentions, the words “thin edge of the wedge” comes to mind.
millertheanunnaki | October 21, 2011 at 11:14 AM |

@ Ping Pong:
“It strikes me odd that Minister Lashley, who is an attorney, could not recognise the constitutional issues raised by Senator Newton and neither could any of the other 29 MP’s (i.e.both BLP and DLP) when the bill was passed in the lower house.”

Your statement is not entirely true! If you had listened carefully to the debates you would heard Ms M.A. Mottley in her contribution raising concerns about the constitutional implications of the bill in its current reading. She also expressed concern about the “mechanics” of certain aspect of the legislation. Queries were raised about the storage and safe custody of the acquired relics and the human and technical resources required to ensure the successful implementation of the provisions and regulations of the legislation.
Caswell Franklyn | October 21, 2011 at 11:48 AM |

David

The comment of Ping Pong at 10: 08 AM is important enough to be a separate Post. I would hate to see the matters raised lost in the NIS post.
David | October 21, 2011 at 12:06 PM |

@Caswell

Will do!
Ping Pong | October 21, 2011 at 12:14 PM |

@Millertheannuki

Thanks for your clarification! However, should I check the record i.e. Hansard, will I find a “NO” vote from Ms Mottley? In any event, the bill was passed in the Lower House and only when the Senate raised objections did the Government see the problems. Minster Stephen Lashley, at the very least, has shown himself not to be a good guardian of our heritage of struggle against heavy handed Government.
millertheanunnaki | October 21, 2011 at 1:17 PM |

@ Ping Pong:
D’accord ! Only goes to show the poor quality of representation we have to put up with. Mediocrity is the flavour of the times in this talk shop!
balance | October 21, 2011 at 2:32 PM |

enuff you are free to support the system if you think it is doing the best for you and the people of barbados . that is your prerogative. for my part, i think the system of our governance is failing us in several ways and largely because of the entrenchment of the belief that there is no other way other than through organised political institutions. i am reading the paper at the moment and when i see in relation to the present debacle going on in st james north that persons are saying that ‘whoever the blp send they supporting’ i must believe that the sacrifices my foreparents made to ensure that we were properly educated has been all in vain. and the same goes for the sycophantic supporters of the other side.even reading the charade masquerading in st james north under the guise of democracy and in the case of mr abed as well, i am at a loss to understand how a seeminglyinteeligent person can continue to throw your support behind such nonsense.
millertheanunnaki | October 21, 2011 at 4:56 PM |

@ enuff
“I am at a loss to understand how a seemingly intelligent person can continue to throw your support behind such nonsense.”

As the old “intelligent” folks would say: Education i not common sense”. Intelligence cannot be acquired through long attendance at a school or university. It is not displayed on the myriad paper qualifications after the names of the pompous. Intelligence is the continuous application of God-given common sense to life’s challenges and unusual situations. There seems to be an inverse relationship between educational attainment levels among Bajans and the manifestation of common sense in their daily affairs of living.
ac | October 21, 2011 at 5:21 PM |

@CH

Ref comment; it is logical to assume they(lawyers) will participate

So why is the public so angered by lawyers?it would be logical to assume that they would be put out to pasture and only called upon “if” need be.
Btw CH in one of my post I queried Bush Tea on the jobs interview by the members and i said that like in any job it depends on who knows who .
In his reply he Told that on the Board was one of his :Best friends” couldn’t help but Laugh .
Christopher Halsall | October 21, 2011 at 5:37 PM |

@ac: “So why is the public so angered by lawyers?

I suspect because the public do not understand the Law.

Even though they should.

And please let us be honest: the public are not actually able to understand the Law partially because the “Barbados Official Gazette” is not publicly available for free (unlike in Canada or the UK or the USA where it is available for free on-line).
millertheanunnaki | October 21, 2011 at 6:27 PM |

@ CH:
The Bajan political cartel and the clergy have more in common than just usage of the title “Minister”. Both controllers of the Bajan psyche are intent of keeping knowledge from the man in the street, lest they lose their power hold. In addition to the Official Gazette, all the laws and regulations of the Land should be made freely available on-line (electronically).
Why ask people to become literate and equip themselves with the modern IT skills (WIFI availability in B’town and talk of making Barbados one really “hot spot”) and then not having work for them to do (figuratively speaking, of course)?
Chickenlikkel | October 21, 2011 at 6:34 PM |

Yes miller, they keeping knowledge from the MAN. Dem too bad. What them saying, Barbados is already a hot spot, we dont need why-fi, we got RI.

And she hotter than hot. She like sweet fire!
Christopher Halsall | October 21, 2011 at 6:35 PM |

@millertheanunnaki: “The Bajan political cartel and the clergy have more in common than just usage of the title “Minister”. Both controllers of the Bajan psyche are intent of keeping knowledge from the man in the street, lest they lose their power hold.

And are we (or, at least, a few of we) not working hard to change this?

Is this why we are working hard on a Friday night?

@MTA: “In addition to the Official Gazette, all the laws and regulations of the Land should be made freely available on-line (electronically).

Completely agree. And, to the best of my knowledge, all Laws are made available on-line as when they were last published.

Except, the Official Gazette is not available on-line. And The Gazette can change the Law.

Hmmmmmmm….
millertheanunnaki | October 21, 2011 at 6:53 PM |

@ CH:
Before you g on your ‘TGIF’ de-stressing session, please tell me how the laws of Barbados can be access on line? I think there was a portal via the Caricom Secretariat website, but it seems that has been closed to the average cyber traveller.
Hants | October 21, 2011 at 6:56 PM |

The debate over the antiquities bill has shown how selfish people can be.

I have not heard one person say that they will take their art collection or a piece of antique furniture to a school.

Will the businessman who takes your money everyday in his establishments be prepared to display his art to the young poor school children whose parents cannot afford to buy a painting or piece of antique furniture?
Christopher Halsall | October 21, 2011 at 6:59 PM |

@MTA: “…please tell me how the laws of Barbados can be access on line?

He’s one example: http://www.telecoms.gov.bb/Documents/telecommunications%20(amendment)%20act%202006-28.pdf

Only five years old…

@MTA:I think there was a portal via the Caricom Secretariat website, but it seems that has been closed to the average cyber traveller.

So what are you saying? Can you answer, or can you not?
balance | October 22, 2011 at 6:26 PM |

as you can see i in letting up on this thing because the system as entrenched cannot be overhauled ; it has to be replaced’ another advantage would be re-establishment of of various public service commissions which were emasculated by the 1974 constitutional amendments which opened the door for yardfowlism and political patronage by placing appointments to some of the most important arms of governance in the hands of the primeminister and by extension his ministers. hence in a short space of time we have had the confidence in the justice system undermined by by the unprincipled and immoral appointment albeit within the ambit of the law of a practising politician as chief justice and in another instance we have witnessed an assault on the constitution to facilitate the correction of an error of incompetence by the powers that be in order that to accomodate the appointment of a chief justice.the statutory boards havre long been used by relevant ministers as vote catching playgrounds at the public’s expense.
Random Thoughts | October 22, 2011 at 7:17 PM |

Quoting Hants “Will the businessman who takes your money everyday in his establishments be prepared to display his art to the young poor school children whose parents cannot afford to buy a painting or piece of antique furniture?”

Up to last weekend there were 2 free art exhibitions that I know of. One at the university and one at Queen’s Park.

All you had to do is catch the bus and walk in the door
BAFBFP | October 22, 2011 at 7:27 PM |

Balance

You better let up. Anybody who effects real change to this patronizing musical chairs charade will be targeted for regime change and people like you and Sarge calling him/her a dictator who will deservingly die by the sword.