Photo credit: The Telegraph
The Church of England considers a celibate person of homosexual orientation to be eligible for ordination, even if the person has entered into a civil same-sex partnership, noting “The Church should not collude with the present assumptions of society that all close relationships necessarily include sexual activity.
Last week those who follow matters of the ecclesiastical variety would have been stunned to learn that the House of Laity – part of the General Synod of the Church of England – killed a twelve year effort to allow women to elevate to the position of bishop. There is the ridiculous situation developing where the David Cameron government is considering repealing equalitarian legislation to force the Church of England to accept women to perform in the role of bishop. The Church of England is answerable to the UK parliament which makes the decision to block women from attaining bishophood the more intriguing given its declared position on human rights.
Puzzling to BU is the fact that homosexual male priests who swear to celibacy are allowed to serve at all levels in the Church of England. How is it the decision by the Church of England is liberal on the issue of homosexual male priests but diametrically different on heterosexual or homosexual female priests being given the opportunity to serve in the role of bishop? A glaring inconsistency!
The other source of puzzlement is that last year Prime Minister David Cameron threatened Barbados and other Commonwealth countries that UK will withhold aid from countries that have discriminatory homosexual legislation on the books. Cameron sees discrimination against homosexuals as a human rights issue. If he is consistent the decision by the Church of England must be embarrassing to his government. The world will be observing closely how the Cameron government reacts to the decision last week by the Church of England.
The Church of England is also under pressure that the redefinition of marriage may create another divide in the Church of England. There is no guarantee the exemption promised will be realised. The obvious conflict which presiding over same sex marriages would cause does not make for easy decisions for the Church.
Barbados Underground 
@ac… OK… Since you trust the “book” so much.
How do you explain that it says that pi is equal to three?
MILLER
The only way to get to Heaven or Hell is through death’s door. Not so?
NOT SO see i cor 15;51 et secq and i thes 4;14-18
@ MME
LOL…. ..DSD!?
…you probably got poor Zoe scanning all his various sources….
@ ac
“miller after you last post i am convined your are the DEVIL.”
***********
After his last post?
ac, that was clear from his second post on BU…. 🙂
Zoe, you like you doing some serious research. 🙂
STAY UNDER 200 words you hear!!?
Rom 8:16 says….
“The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of. God” ….ITSELF!
This is a CORRECT translation based on the original text. Later bible versions of course have incorrectly gone for the “himself” based on the trinity brainwashing….so you in good company.
millertheanunnaki in your post of | December 7, 2012 at 8:24 PM | you cut and pasted from and cited Paine IN THE AGE OF REASON. Why then cant Zoe do the same?
@ ac | December 7, 2012 at 9:26 PM |
Those moral codes of conduct that you allude to were written down long time before the plagiarism by the scholastic crooks of Judeo-Christian persuasion.
There is nothing new under the Sun or in the Bible. Just a rehash of old myths and legends interspersed with copied nuggets of wisdom like the book of Ecclesiastes. The majority of the bible is about human frailties and moral defectiveness like murder, incest, fornication, adultery, rape, homosexuality, mayhem, slavery, human sacrifice war and damnation by nuclear war.
Chris @ac… OK… Since you trust the “book” so much.
How do you explain that it says that pi is equal to three?
ac
chris it does. maybe you can point me to chapter and verse
miller who are you waring with the bible or its authors. it seems to me from the last comment that we are living in biblical times a continuance of what was then being repeated now. so what is the point of your argument since it might be a recorded account of a medevial life of man and also a carbon copy of the same identical traits and wrongdoings done today .
Bush Tea, Man, I don’t respond to your timing, I respond when it suits me. The following is a rather simple and straightforward answer to your obvious distractive, from probably the most brilliant and highly respected Greek scholar of the 19th century
Robertson’s Word Pictures of the New Testament
Romans 8:16
The Spirit himself (auto to pneuma). The grammatical gender of pneuma is neuter as here, but the Greek used also the natural gender as we do exclusively as in John 16:13 ekeino (masculine he), to pneuma (neuter). See also John 16:26 (o–ekeino). It is a grave mistake to use the neuter “it” or “itself” when referring to the Holy Spirit. Beareth witness with our spirit (summarturei twi pneumati hmwn). See on “Ro 2:15” for this verb with associative instrumental case. See 1 John 5:10 for this double witness.
It was a grave mistake, as Robertson points out, for the 1611 KJV translators to have rendered the Holy Spirit, as ‘it’ or ‘itself’ especially in light of the ‘context’ of the discourse in which verse 16, is placed.
This error of the KJV, which does NOT occur in other discourses that speak of the Holy Spirit, in the same KJV, as He, Him, or Himself, and correctly so, is an error, that the JW’s and other deniers of His* person grab hold of, and say, ‘…You see, the KJV says, ‘itself’.
You don’t grab hold of a ‘STRAW’ in a Gold Mine of Nuggets of Truth, and shout, I’ve found it, when all you have in your hand is a piece of STRAW!
So in simple then words Zoe….
In the original language, the gender is normally assumed and not specified. Technically, the translators could have translated EITHER he, she or it.
Because they “KNEW” that God was a trinity, they obviously translated as “HE”.
In Romans 8:16 and the other two cases Bushie drew to your attention, the language was SPECIFICALLY NEUTRAL – in short “IT”….. But you are now saying that some ‘brilliant Greek Scholar’ from the 19th Century has determined that it would be a GRAVE mistake to call an ‘it’ an “it” with respect to the Holy Spirit because he was a brilliant scholar…?
What Brilliant Scholar from what 19th Century what?!?
Even Bushie’s cousin knows more than any such scholar….at least enough to recognize BLATANT BIAS for what it is.
Have you ever heard that when you start wrong there is only one way to finish? Or as CH would say GIGO…
Since you like long posts…
Here is a bit of wisdom for you Zoe.
The Bible was NOT written to be used to PROVE anything about God. Indeed, quite the contrary. The Bible is only of use to those who have been tagged with this same spirit (DNA) of God (which you think is an individual). This is why all your quotes and references only make you look like a crazy man to most bloggers..
If you want to understand the things of God, just look around you- and particularly look at yourself.
For example…
-You are part of a family, usually a growing family.
-The Father is intended to be head of the household
-You have a mind or spirit which reflects your character and personality (ZOE’S Spirit)
– your family is extended when your DNA (sperm) is joined to an egg of your wife, forms an embryo and SUCCESSFULLY negotiates the 9- month phase of physical development.
Ours is a MIRROR image…(we were fashioned in the IMAGE of God)
God has a spirit which is holy (GOD’S Holy Spirit)
God’s family will be extended when his DNA (HOLY SPIRIT) is joined with individuals from his wife (THE Church) who then go on to SUCCESSFULLY negotiate the lifelong phase of SPIRITUAL development needed to be BORN AGAIN (spiritually)
THOSE endowed with this DNA will find that the Bible makes lots of sense, has no real conflicts, and explains everything…..others will continue to argue about semantics and quote ancient jokers who also thought that the world was flat…. 🙂
Miller do you realise that the first recordered laws/against corruption are in the bible .therfore for you or anyone to discredit all of the bible based soley of man,s intrepretation is nonsense for indeed those are the same laws you and most people use daily as a guide for moral fullfillment and ethics. even today as our parliament struggles to enact the same laws which were sanctioned to all thousands of years ago. How ironic..
Miller…the Nuki, Be absolutely assured, the likes of Thomas Pain, and those of his ilk, like you, Will, feel the wrath of God:
“For the wrath of God IS* revealed from heaven AGAINST ALL* ungodliness and UNRIGHTEOUSNESS of men who suppress the TRUTH in UNRIGHTEOUSNESS.” ( Rom. 1: 18)
It will not FAIL, because:
“But in accordance with YOUR hardness and YOUR impenitent HEART, you are treasuring (storing) UP for YOURSELF wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the RIGHTEOUS JUDGMENT of God, who will render to each one according to his deeds, eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality. BUT to those (Paine et al) who are self-seeking and do NOT obey the TRUTH, but OBEY unrighteousness – indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also the Greek (Gentile) But glory, honor, and peace to EVERYONE who works what is good, to the Jew first, and also to the Greek ( Gentile). FOR there is NO partiality with God.” (Rom.2: 5-11).
NOTE: NO racial OR ethnic distinction whatsoever!
The Israeli can’t seem to win. Stevie Wonder is under pressure based on this report for performing for the Israeli military.
It seems that institutionalized religion is about to destroy the world.
On 8 December 2012 13:32, Barbados Underground
ac | December 8, 2012 at 9:32 AM |
Mrs AC, if you were to stop being so blinkered and see the world from a panoramic view you would not make such myopic statements.
What are you saying here, ac? That societies or nation states that do not adhere or incorporate biblical references in their laws are irrelevant and not worthy of admiration or emulation? What does that say about the Chinese and Indian civilizations that have their genesis much earlier than the Hebrews? Are you saying that these societies had no laws to regulate social and economic interactions?
We think you have the donkey cart before the jackass as usual in your case. The injunctions and laws recorded in the bible were copied from earlier civilizations like the Sumerians and Egyptians.
If you are so simplistically naïve and misinformed let us carry your argument to its illogical conclusion.
The bible also records the first murder and cases of incest. Your god prevented anyone from killing Cain for murder but yet we today have laws against these barbaric acts using similar barbaric acts as punishment. Why is it against the law to have sex with or marry your parents or siblings when these same things were allowed under the same enactments of thousand of years?
Observing(…) | December 7, 2012 at 12:02 PM |
@Zoe
amm, so, if there is no light, doesn’t that mean we are left with “something”
i.e. darkness??
Darkness is not something in itself, it is (relative) absence of light.
Nothing is similar — absence of being
Micro Mock Engineer | December 7, 2012 at 8:56 PM |
@Zoe | December 7, 2012 at 6:02 PM |
The deeper one goes the more the incident light is absorbed or scattered.
Something. n. syn. ENTITY, being, existence, existent, individual, THING.
“Does darkness, NOTHINGNESS, sound like it could be any of the above?”
“Actually Zoe… the latest theory on darkness suggests that it has mass and is actually heavier than light. That is why the deeper you go in the ocean the darker it gets… all the darkness sinks to the bottom while the light floats to the top. The theory also explains how electric bulbs really work…. they don’t emit light, they suck dark out of the room … the friction of the dark mass rushing into the bulb causes it to get hot…. unless of course you have a dark-sucking-diode (DSD) which sucks dark far more efficiently… hic… now where did I put that extra old…
Nonsense!
The deeper in the oceans one goes the more the incident light has been absorbed and/or scattered by particles etc, thus, there is less and less light, with red being eliminated at the shallowest level
BTW that is why snappers are red, it is as good as black deep down.
Light bulbs, burning torches fluorescent tubes and LEDs — light emitting diodes — etc all emit light.
Miller i knew you would use your inteluctual idocy to compund and confuse the issue. the intent is what the message deliver and not the messenger. how is it that afterthousands years thoughjesus is not around to deliver his message his message of love still resonates and also the law of the ten commandments to which and all religions adhere to regardless of race or religion ?are you in your state of stupor and confusion agree with Thomas with dicarding such golden nuggets.
@ Zoe
You actually answered MME with that Dark Sucking Diode thing?
What DSD / DED/ dark theory what?!?
Some bored scientist at Bell Labs probably had another light day with nothing much to do and came up with that nonsense….
Bushie could also expound on his theory that what was previously thought to be “knowledge” is really a lack of ignorance. School is not therefore a font of knowledge, but a mechanism to extract ignorance….
Fellows like Onions clearly has issues with their extraction valves, while MME had no valve at all…. 🙂
….now we know why Onions is so full of it…..
Zoe | December 6, 2012 at 7:08 PM |
It is impossible, for any rational, honest person, to believe and say that the Holy Spirit, as revealed in Almighty God’s Word, the Scriptures, is an ‘IT’ and not a very Personal ‘Person’ the third Person of the eternal Godhead, as an ‘impersonal’ FORCE, as He is referred to by the JW’s and other cults, could NEVER be described as ‘He’ is in the following.
Verses showing identity, ministry, and personhood of the Holy Spirit
1.The Holy Spirit mentioned on equal level with God
A.Matt. 28:19, “Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,”
B.2 Cor. 13:14, “The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the FELLOWSHIP of the HOLY SPIRIT, be with you all.”
Come now Bush Tea, note the word FELLOWSHIP, can one have FELLOWSHIP, with an ‘IT’? An impersonal active FORCE? Nonsense!
John 14:17, “That is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not behold Him or know Him, but you know Him because
3.The Holy Spirit is referred to as a person by scripture
Rom. 8:11, “But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who indwells you.”
1 John 5:6, “And it is the Spirit who bears witness, because the Spirit is the truth.”
John 14:26, “These things I have spoken to you, while abiding with you.
“But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, HE will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you.
Himself
Rom. 8:16, “The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,”
i
Rom. 8:26, “And in the same way the Spirit also helps our weakness; for we do not know how to pray as we should, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words”
Personhood of the Holy Spirit (has emotions, is aware, speaks, knows, etc.)
A.Grieves, You cannot grieve an IT! Nonsense!
Isaiah 63:10, “But they rebelled and grieved His Holy Spirit; Therefore, He turned Himself to become their enemy, He fought against them.”
Eph. 4:30, “And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.”
Loves
Rom. 15:30, “Now I urge you, brethren, by our Lord Jesus Christ and by the love of the Spirit, to strive together with me in your prayers to God for me.”
Has a mind
Rom. 8:27, “and He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.”
And IT, cannot INTERCEDE!
Speaks
2 Sam. 23:2, “The Spirit of the LORD spoke through me; his word was on my tongue.”
And ‘IT’ cannot speak to anyone, or through their tongue!
Acts 8:29, “And the Spirit said to Philip, “Go up and join this chariot.”
And ‘IT” could NOT speak to Philip.
Acts 10:19, “And while Peter was reflecting on the vision, the Spirit said to him, “Behold, three men are looking for you.”
Acts 11:12, “And the Spirit told me to go with them without misgivings. And these six brethren also went with me, and we entered the man’s house.”
Acts 13:2, “And while they were ministering to the Lord and fasting, the Holy Spirit SAID, “Set apart for Me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.”
NOTE carefully, And the Holy Spirit, SAID, Set apart for ME* (Person), NOT IT!)….For the work which ‘I’ NOT ‘it’ have called him
Acts 21:11, “And coming to us, he took Paul’s belt and bound his own feet and hands, and said, “This is what the Holy Spirit SAYS: ‘In this way the Jews at Jerusalem will bind the man who owns this belt and deliver him into the hands of the Gentiles.’”
Acts 28:25-26, “And when they did not agree with one another, they began leaving after Paul had spoken one parting word, “The Holy Spirit rightly SPOKE through Isaiah the prophet to your fathers, saying, ‘Go to this people and say, “You will keep on hearing, but will not understand.”
1 Tim. 4:1, “But the Spirit explicitly SAYS that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to DECEITFUL spirits and doctrines of demons,”
Heb. 3:7-8, “Therefore, just as the Holy Spirit SAYS, ‘Today if you hear His voice, Do not harden your hearts as when they provoked ME, (PERSON, NOT an ‘it’) as in the day of trial in the wilderness,”
Rev. 2:7, “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit SAYS to the churches. To him who overcomes, I will grant to eat of the tree of life, which is in the Paradise of God.” See also Rev. 2:11,17,29; 3:6,13,22.
Rev. 14:13, “And I heard a voice from heaven, saying, “Write, ‘Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on!’” “Yes,” SAYS the Spirit, “that they may rest from their labors, for their deeds follow with them.”
Rev. 22:17, “And the Spirit and the bride SAY “Come.” And let the one who hears say, “Come.” And let the one who is thirsty come; let the one who wishes take the water of life without cost.”
E.Knows
Has an awareness of goodness
Acts 15:28, “For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay upon you no greater burden than these essentials.”
Can be lied to
Acts 5:3, “But Peter said, “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to LIE to the Holy Spirit, and to keep back some of the price of the land?”
H.Can be tested
i
Makes overseers
Acts 20:28, “Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has MADE you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood.”
Can be resisted
Acts 7:51, “You men who are stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears are always RESISTING the Holy Spirit.”
5.Activities of the Holy Spirit
A.Teaches
i.John 14:26, “These things I have spoken to you, while abiding with you. “But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, HE WILL TEACH you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you.
Luke 12:12, “for the Holy Spirit WILL TEACH in that very hour what you ought to say.”
B.Intercedes
Rom. 8:26, “And in the same way the Spirit also helps our weakness; for we do not know how to pray as we should, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words;”
Filled by
Acts 2:4, “And they were all FILLED with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit was giving them utterance.”
6.Forms of the Holy Spirit
A.Dove
i.Matt. 3:16, “And after being baptized, Jesus went up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove, and coming upon Him.”
7.Miscellaneous
A.Can be spoken against
i.Matt. 12:32, “And whoever shall speak a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever shall speak against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age, or in the age to come.”
B.Can be baptized with the Holy Spirit
Mark 1:8, “I baptized you with water; but He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.”
C.The Spirit is given
i.John 3:34, “For He whom God has sent speaks the words of God; for He gives the Spirit without measure.
D.The Spirit is received
i.John 20:22, “And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit.”
E.The Spirit forbids
Acts 16:6, “And they passed through the Phrygian and Galatian region, having been FORBIDDEN by the Holy Spirit to speak the word in…”
Can an ‘IT’ forbid anyone?
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Still trying to convince yourself Zoe? Don’t worry, it won’t be long now before you find out the real story…..
How con you write such long posts? 🙂
Bushie just tried a longesh one above and feeling guilty as hell.
Your conscience (HE) must be dead…. 😦
Bushie, Man, I have to repeat this post, as it goes to the HEART, the CORE of your HERESY, and as you so correctly say, If YOU start OUT wrong, you END UP WRONG! And THIS you have so decidedly DONE, in ignorance of the TRUTH.
Zoe | December 5, 2012 at 11:26 PM |
This has to be repeated, and re-posted, as Bush Tea reveals the CORE of his Gnosticism, Mormonism heretical, utterly un-biblical nonsense.
The same father of ALL lies, who spoke through the serpent to Eve, now speaks through Bush Tea, and he always does with False prophets.
“…you will BE LIKE GOD…” ( Gen. 3:5b)
“…that we NOW have the POTENTIAL to BECOME AS GOD…” ( The Gospel according to Bush Tea)
So, Bushie, please tell all and sundry, where you GOT, this LIE from the PIT of HELL, from!?
Could it have been from Theophilus who wrote:
“If I call Him Wisdom, I speak of His offspring ( Theophilus of Antioch. To Autolycus, Book I, Chapter 111. translated by Marcus Dods, A.M. Excerpted from Ante-Nicene Fathers, Volume 2. edited by Alexander Roberts & James Donaldson, american Edition, 1885, Online Edition Copyright @ 2004 by K. Knight).
Theophilus, continues, “We are to be God’s offspring! We ARE TO BE GOD in the family of God…For if He had made him immortal from the beginning, He would have made him GOD…so that if he should incline to the things of immortality, keeping the commandment of God, he should receive as reward from Him immortality, and should BECOME GOD…For God has given us a law and holy commandments; and every one who keeps these can be saved, and, obtaining the resurrection, an inherit incorruption (Theohilus of Antioch, To Autolycus, Book 2, Chapter XXV11).
Bushie, Man, this character, Theohilus, sound like he could be your TWIN-BROTHER!
So, we can trace the FIRST LIE uttered by the ‘father’ of ALL lies, to Eve in the Garden of Eden.
Satan speaking through the Serpent: “…YOU will be LIKE GOD” (Gen. 3:5b)
Theophilus: “We are to be God’s offspring. We are to BE GOD in the family of God…”
Bush Tea: “…that we NOW have the POTENTIAL to BECOME GOD.”
I will let the Lord Jesus Christ, speak to you, Bush Tea, from His Word, forever settled in Heaven. Yes, the immediate context, as He speaks to the Pharisees, is different, BUT, the principle of spiritual deception IS the same with you. Hear HIM!
” Jesus said to them. ‘If God were your Father, you would LOVE ME, for I proceeded from and came from God: nor have I come of of Myself, but He sent Me. Why do you NOT understand My speech? Because you are NOT able to listen to My word.” ( John 8: 42-43).
Jesus then goes on to tell them:
“You are of YOUR father the devil, and the desires of of YOUR father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does NOT stand in the TRUTH, because there is NO TRUTH in him. When he speaks a LIE, he speaks FROM his own resources, for he IS A LIAR and the father of it.” (v.44).
“But because I tell you the TRUTH, you do NOT believe Me. Which of you convicts Me of sin> And I tell you the TRUTH, why do you not believe Me? (vv. 45,46).
“He who is of God hears God’s words; therefore you do NOT hear, because YOU are NOT of God.” (v. 47). Emphasis added.
So it be!
Bushie, A reminder to your endarkened mind, the LIGHT of the Glorious Gospel of Christ, will penetrate, IF, you’ll allow, Him* the Holy Spirit of TRUTH to come in. He will NOT force His way in. You must choose to let Him in!
Verses showing identity, ministry, and personhood of the Holy Spirit
1.The Holy Spirit mentioned on equal level with God
A.Matt. 28:19, “Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of THE Father, AND THE Son, AND THE Holy Spirit,”
B.2 Cor. 13:14, “The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ,(1) and the love of God,(2) AND the FELLOWSHIP of the HOLY SPIRIT,(3) be with you all.”
Here we see clearly , again, the THREE distinct PERSONS, of the Eternal Godhead, TRINITY of Persons.
Come now Bush Tea, note the word FELLOWSHIP, can one have FELLOWSHIP, with an ‘IT’? An impersonal active FORCE? Nonsense!
John 14:17, “That is the Spirit of TRUTH, whom the world (those who have REJECTED Christ) CANNOT RECEIVE, because it does not BEHOLD HIM, (You cannot behold an IT!) or KNOW HIM, (Not an IT!) but you ( The Redeemed children of God, IN Christ) KNOW HIM* the Holy Spirit, (Not an IT!)
Ok Zoe
You have made your point…
…which is that you learn by repetition and not by logic and reason….
You make an excellent churchman…. Genuine best wishes from The Bushman.
Bushie out!
Bush Tea | December 8, 2012 at 8:53 PM |
Ok Zoe
“You have made your point…
…which is that you learn by repetition, (No Bushie, by earnest and diligent STUDY of His Word, coherently and logically presented, led, TAUGHT and GUIDED by The Person of HOLY SPIRIT, as promised by Jesus) and not by logic and reason…. (Sorry Bushie, NO logic and reason in your belief system…antithetical to the Word of God…as shown and proved.)..”
You make an excellent churchman….(No Bushie, Jesus did NOT call ‘churchmen’….He called disciples, followers of HIM* I am a Disciple of Christ) Genuine best wishes from The Bushman.
Bushie out!
Take care Bushie!
Zoe, you are no disciple you are a follower of Christ
Christ’s message is we humans can all have the spirit of God like he had
Bushie was trying to pull your coat about this
“you are no disciple”
nice one kiki.
love the vids as well.
take care.