Submitted by Yardbroom
I am not against CARICOM if it is possible to achieve its main purpose which I understand to be: …”promote economic integration and cooperation among its members, to ensure that the benefits of integration are equitably shared, and to promote foreign policy”… I find it difficult to accept that with regard to illegal immigration, any benefits of integration are equitably shared. There are no benefits in this area – certainly not for Barbados – but the burden is being shouldered by little Barbados, and for its efforts to cope with a difficult situation it is being vilified by a cohort, some not Barbadian but who reside in Barbados.
Many of personal choice have made Barbados their home, now they seek to criticise all things Barbadian…we are indeed a tolerant people. I sometimes wonder if they hate the fact that they have had – regardless of the circumstances – to come to this little rock to reside in peace and relative tranquility, surely that is not the fault of Barbadians.
A vibrant few who earn a living by the pen and other media forms; buoyed up by kindred academics seem reluctant to proffer any advice to Prime Minister Barat Jagdeo of Guyana despite being natives of that country. They are always “mute” in their diligent examination of Guyanese politics, but wax loquacious on Barbados talk programmes and the pen is always at hand to criticise our Government.
On occasions when a Guyanese academic leaves that pack and gives a detailed analysis of the problems which beset Guyana, they are ridiculed and treated in a perfunctory manner, with a sideswipe at the merits of their scholarship…sad that a shining star in a dark firmament can be so clouded from vision by “mist”.
CARICOM is often compared to the EU ( European Union ) and the question asked here is why are they moving forward apace and we cannot do likewise. Let us take a look at the movement of people in the respective entities, for it is there any comparison breaks down.
Is it a question of comparing oranges with pears? In the EU…”the “traditional” right to free movement means that no special formalities are required in order to enter any EU member state other than to hold a valid travel document. This fundamental right extends to members of an EU citizens family irrespective of their nationality, however they might still be subject to a visa requirement”.
Imagine that situation being enshrined in Barbados Law and think of the Guyanese situation, they – Guyanese – would all be legal and so would all the families they cared to bring to Barbados…contemplate that for awhile.
Compare the EU free movement of citizens with the free movement of citizens ,Treaty of Chaguaramas below:
” Since the start of CSM, eight categories of CARICOM nationals have been eligible for free movement throughout the CSME without the need for work permits. They are University Graduates, Media Workers, Artistes, Musicians, Sportspersons, Managers, Technical and Supervisory Staff attached to a company and self-employed persons/service Providers. In addition the spouses and immediate dependent family members of those nationals will also be exempt from work permit requirements. At the July 2006 CARICOM summit, it was agreed that artisans, domestic workers and hospitality workers are to be added to the categories of labour allowed free movement at a later date, pending the agreement of an appropriate certification.”
The Legal requirements in the EU and CARICOM are quite different and for good reason…some would say and he on high should be praised. The much lauded EU also has its problems: “Turkey has applied to be a EU member since April 1987 negotiations were started in 2005 and the process is likely to take a decade to complete”.
“One of the opponents of Turkey’s membership is France which is fearful of the prospect of another wave of Muslim immigrants, especially given the poor integration of its Muslim minority.” Wikipedia
In any union of countries there are advantages and disadvantages, but the hope is on balance you are better off in the Union than as a separate entity. Those who give the EU as an example and think there is never any self interest there, should think of France’s opposition to Turkey’s proposed membership of the EU because of Turkey’s Muslim component.
Little Barbados is now caught up in this illegal immigration debate in CARICOM and regardless of if we are willing to accept reality or not, Guyana’s problems are endemic, and unfortunately long term, because of the nature of its politics. Guyanese politics have to change or else it – Guyana – will be an albatross on the whole entity of CARICOM, as its citizens fan out across the Caribbean in greater numbers. There must be a legal framework for control and proper management, to suppose it can go on indefinitely unchecked…is madness and defies logic.
I contend that it would not help Barbados if its interests and prosperity are “degraded” to benefit other CARICOM countries.
Most Barbadians have nothing against Guyanese – it is illegal immigrants we are speaking of – neither are we “xenophobic” it is simply the tranquility, social cohesiveness and our way of life, with all its faults, we wish to preserve.
It is best that we are called “xenophobic” today than that future generations of Barbadians would say…how could they have been so foolish.
Barbados Underground 
“Professor” Clive
Thomas’ comment in the press yesterday ( As reproduced from a Guyana newspaper) were nothing less than ridiculous. I have refrained from commenting on the immigration issue as it seem to dominated by those who prefer to stick their head in the sand and comment from that position. The opposition in Barbados, The Nation newspaper, and radio hosts Norman Faria are among those dominating this issue locally.
The situation that currently confronts this island must be laid on the shoulder of the “See Through” but not “See Past” led former administration. The deliberate policy not to put proper systems in place in a computer dominated modern era. There was a deliberate failure to modernise the relevant departments, while fooling the people that an Advance Passenger List ( one of the world cup fiascos) would keep out so called terrorist . Now we are told that we owe BDS$45M in exports to Caricom countries which they do us a grand favour by purchasing. At all at any and all costs therefore we must allow the country to be overrun because those town criers believe that they will benefit from future votes. The raw reality however is that the sensible and sober who came from elsewhere to settled here are now equally as those whose navel strings were buried here, are that the ship can be sunk .
I must say I have always found Barbados and Bajans to be most welcoming.
By the way David did yu get my email?
@Justin Robinson
No we have not received your email.
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A Fast Free Fall – From Prosperity to Crisis
There can be no denying that under Errol Barrow, the DLP was a political institution that helped lift hundreds of thousands of Barbadians into the middle class.
Back then, the DLP continued the transforming of this country that started by Grantley Adams, utilizing Barbadian talent and innovation and its access to grant funds and concessionary loans.
Today, not knowing what it is doing (even though being the government) the DLP’s slide continues with Errol Barrow’s Party travelling below the earth at record speed.
The DLP’s reality is therefore: “a Fast Free Fall – From Prosperity to Crisis.”
This is something that would have been unfathomable twenty-two years ago, much less three decades ago, when it was a dominant force in local and regional politics.
Today, the DLP practices gimmicks, such as giving tourist from Europe and North America – money back, if the temperature drops below a certain level, even though moving aggressively to deport Caribbean people from Barbados.
But while the DLP moves aggressively to deport Caribbean people from Barbados, right here in this country – Chinese are threatening to bulldoze the homes of Barbadians who have been living on the land for over a half of a century.
Talk about counterfeit DLP patriotism!
It is now not a question of if the DLP is doing a poor job but whether the DLP is capable of governing at all – at this time of what is being described as the worst economic crisis in 80 years.
@ Hogsqueal,
Please answer my prior question,
” I wonder why didn’t the BLP party offer CSME as a referendum to the Barbados public ?
Also,What if the current DLP administration offered there ‘managed migration’ policy as a referendum what do you think the results would be ?
The one thing that I have noticed throughout this entire CSME ordeal is that NOT one Government in Caricom has offered a referendum on such an important & binding issue on the people but from all the clamoring I’ve heard so far from family,friends & neigbours they all approve of the current ‘managed migration’ policy.”
Jay // June 25, 2009 at 11:05 am
@ Hogsqueal,
Please answer my prior question,
” I wonder why didn’t the BLP party offer CSME as a referendum to the Barbados public ?
++++++++++++++++
Do you realise that this country is in peril and that there is critical information that the DLP which promised: “Freedom of Information,” is hiding from the people.
You doubt me, wait until the next few months. You think 1991 was bad? It will take a lot more than distraction tactics?
While the DLP engages in gimmicks, note carefully that T&T and the OECS is closing the door. You want Barbados to be for Barbadians only, just wait!!!
But be very careful what you wish for?
That Barbados has lost its sense of outrage – Heaven help us!
You were warned. The BLP sounded the alarm but no one listened.
HS, will you answer the question?
What if the current DLP administration offered there ‘managed migration’ policy as a referendum what do you think the results would be ?
+++++++++++++++++++
Friend, “managed migration” – in the heart of a DLP triggered – deep private sector led recession – is a contradiction.
Guyanese and OECS nationals came here to work in agriculture and construction primarily.
The Arawak Cement company now reports that sales are down.
Dacosta Mannings is closing it lumber company.
Unemployment is 10.1 per cent (so far) and highest among men. This is not “family first” but the DLP creating dysfunctional families.
We all know (not the DLP) that our agricultural sector depends on foreign labour.
Therefore, in this DLP’ manufactured recession – there is (technically) no need for managed migration or a guest worker programme because “nobody” will be coming here looking for work.
Barbados is in a DLP’ manufactured crisis.
The reality always is, that when the DLP is in office – there is always a mass exodus from Barbados, both Caribbean nationals and capital.
There are never opportunities under DLP RULE. DLP talk about “deportation” is therefore merely a distraction tactic.
No one has to tell Guyanese and OECS nationals that if they stay in Barbados under DLP rule – they will starve along with Barbadians.
HS, I see. You are incapable of an answer
Now I am sick and tired of everyone breathing down bajans throat. We need to get to the bottom of this situation.
I would like to know why you all don’t talk about the kidnapping of Faith Hustein ‘s (dont know if I spelt the name correctly) son who was kidnapped in Guyana who then ran and left her country after paying 25, 000 US dollars to retrieve her son from who ever it was…….
How comes Barbados is so bad; yet, her son is now in at the Combermere School.
Additionally, how comes when we bajans go to Guyana and have our children in schools they can be taken out when an Indo-Guyanese wants the space!
THOMPSON’S ADMINISTRATION ARE YOU SERIOUS!
I want to know how all the Indo-Guyanese can get on a plane and sit the 11+ exam in Barbados and get to enter into a Secondary school yet we bajans cannot get a transfer!
Something is wrong with the persons in Government!
How comes Gilbert Greaves can still be pulling strings for lots of Guyanese!
He has gone against his own!
Bajans you all are in serious trouble and I can tell it will get WORST!
YOUR OWN ARE KILLING YOU SOFTLY!
Check the CSME department in Barbados and see who is in charge you all are a pack of jokers!
It is time to scrap CARICOM. CSME is nothing more but a conspiracy to destroy Barbados by other countries which envy our success. You are seeing the evidence now. Go to the Stabroek News and the blogs and see the nasty things Guyanese saying about Bajans. They hate our guts and are praying for hurricanes and tidal waves to destroy us. Barbados must be Bajans and those who have respect for us.
As soon as things start to pick up again I am sure that we will welcome Tom, Dick, and Harry again provided that they are legal. But for the time being things are brown and as a result home drums have to beat first.
We have no choice but to remove the Welcome mat at this time from before these illegals.
I support the Gov’t one hundred percent in its effort to rid the country of illegals especially Guyanese.
The status of Norman Faria must be revoked. Send him packing to Guyana.
Please check again, my brain is advanced but I seem to recall that CSME started with Lloyd Erskine Sandiford under his stewardship as Prime minister of Barbados.
The continuation of this immigration debate is accomplishing the desired results the DLP intended. Every political commentator is now consumed by the intrigue.
I however, will not be so misguided. This immigration debate has caused the country to focus on Guyana while the real issues affecting Barbadians fall off the political radar. In fact if fellow Bloggers take the time to read Hartley Henry’s column in the Advocate today, you will have a better grasp of the depth of the economic turmoil that is about to devastate this country.
Hartley’s aka WIV column is merely to mentally prepare the country for the onslaught.
For example while Barbadians are debating immigration, unemployment in rising above 12%, more than 6,000 persons out of work. They were working when the Guyanese were all here.
Tourism arrivals and the revenue from tourism have declined drastically and will continue to decline for the rest of 2009. Small and medium size hotels are struggling and will soon have to send home those workers that are already on short week. Even at Clico where the Prime Minister said had not lost a single job, workers are going home and this has nothing to do with the Guyanese that were living in Barbados.
It was a very serious challenge for this DLP Government to find money to pay public servants for the month of May. Reliable sources have indicated that the challenged experienced in May is likely to reoccur and deepen for the rest of the year.
Barbados’ foreign reserves continues to fall and will soon reach the point where Government will have a challenge paying for its goods and services purchased from overseas.
Government has a serious cash flow problem due to a sharp falloff in revenues. This has resulted in a sharp decline in the provision of supplies to places like the QEH and other critical departments of government. Payments to suppliers and the income tax refunds are all being deferred. There is more evidence to indicate the pending danger that Barbados now finds itself.
The collapse of the Barbados economy is now more likely to occur mush sooner than expected. But this should not surprise Barbadians. The new DLP has never been good managers of the economy and Thompson is definitely not the kind of leader who cares about the suffering of Barbadians. His only concern is the protection of Clico from judicial management, so the misdeeds of himself and Parris would not be made known.
@Yardbroom
“In the EU…”the “traditional” right to free movement means that no special formalities are required in order to enter any EU member state other than to hold a valid travel document. This fundamental right extends to members of an EU citizens family irrespective of their nationality, however they might still be subject to a visa requirement”.
You say this as if the relatives of EU members have a right and that visas are automatically obtained in these case. It is not correct. It is even more complex because, until very recently, the (Schengen) visa needed for EU countries was specific to the first port of entry. Too bad if you planned to travel to France, but your plane is diverted to Belgium; the non-EU citizen has no right of entry to Belgium until the Schengen visa is granted by that EU country. This entry requirement, while simple in principle, is not a trivial matter. Many unwitting visitors to Europe from the Caribbean have been hit by this and had to return from whence they came.
While the BLP is spreading doom and gloom, they must realise that, like Bush, they left a high debt for the DLP to deal with, coupled with the global crisis, it is obvious that there would be some hardship in the country. That is why the illegals have got to retun to their country and not compete against bajans for the few jobs that will be available in Barbados. In times of plenty a bajan will get the best job possible but in hard times they will take the lesser job, therefore the job that a guyanese once had will become a bajan job, even though they will not wash dog blankets with their bare hands. We are reaching a climax in this problem, it is building up to some civil unrest in the not too distance future. It is going to explode in the face of many innocent people and it will make 1937 look like a child’s play. The tension is building, our own newspaper is now showing its true identity, even our politicians are willing to sacrifice this country fot personal gain. WE ARE PICNICKING UNDER AN ACTIVE VOLCANO, that is about to blow its top. God help us
The guyanese are wishing for a hurricane to hit Barbados this year.Maybe a moderate hit would help ease the situation but here is this scenerio. A hurricane is approaching, illegals rush to the shelters, while bajans try to weather the storm at home. However, because of the devastation, there are forced to seek shelter only to find they are full with illegals, what would bajans do?
Barbados is a slave society
These things are expected
debt is a component of our development so complaining about debt is CRAP. Stop blaming the BLP for debt. It sounds silly, it is like saying that there is too much sunshine. so shut your trap.
The DLP is doing a bad job as expected. Who expected different was not aware of 1991. There are some young persons who were 10 years old in 1991 and who voted for Thompson based on pure ignorance. The BLP did a fantastically good job. People were working, people opened businesses etc
Down with the DLP
Up with the BLP
Scout,that is positively and by far the worst attempt at a scare tactic that I have ever read! Congratulations!
@ livinginbarbados June 25,2009 at 3:23pm
I wrote by quoting EU Law:
…”This fundamental right extends to members of an EU citizens family irrespective of their nationality, however they might still be subject to a visa requirement”.
livinginbarbados wrote quote:
…”You say this as if the relatives of EU members have a right and that visas are automatically obtained in these [case]. It is not correct”…
In a careful reread of the two passages you will note I never mentioned the word “automatic” in my passage and in no way is that inferred.
I only quoted EU Law if you know it better than they do, perhaps you might have words with Brussels.
It was kind of you to mention and give warning of travel to France, however I have first hand experience. I was in the South of France -Provence to be precise – only last month, but thanks.
YB and LIB are not differing. The right (YB) is qualified and not automatic (LIB)…much like freedom of speech under our Constitution..
Themis
Scare tactic? Ask grenedians? It’s not what I wish for, it is what the guyanese wish for us.
Royarumble says ”In fact if fellow Bloggers take the time to read Hartley Henry’s column in the Advocate today, you will have a better grasp of the depth of the economic turmoil that is about to devastate this country”
We do not need to read Mr.Henry’s article, indeed, if you read the blogs of three to four years ago, we bloggers ourselves predicted just this scenario, in light of the then impending recession and the ridiculous spending of the then administration.
Go check for yourself on BFP if you so desire, unless you are here only to create trouble out of nothingness.
We know full well the onslaught that is pending. A few of us have even gone against the recent ‘grain’, and held fast that the recession is far from over internationally.
So, ‘expected’ is an understatement.
Peace
You spoke to all the Guyanese, Scout? Given your antipathy towards them I am surprised that you spoke to any of them at all, but seriously- this is what they all are planning?
@Yardbroom
I wrote “as if…automatic”.
Though born in the Caribbean I am a EU citizen; my wife is a Caribbean national and two of my three children are non-EU nationals (one has a UK passport). My wife has to make sure her Schengen visa is in order to travel, and as I said, if perchance she/my children have to divert to another port of entry then woe betide them.
Remember, the Schengen visa is a visitor visa, for leisure, tourism, or business. For clairification, it gives no right of abode.
We may not be differing in our understanding, but my reading of your commentary left me uneasy that people may feel that EU entry for non-EU citizins is simple.
This whole mess was created by a visionless Barbados Labour Party. Sensible people were warning years ago that the mindless act of opening up Barbados’ borders to all and sundry especially illegal Guyanese would cause problems for Barbados in the long run.
We all remember only too well a past leader of Barbados boasting at a
heads of Gov’t conference that illegal Guyanese worked on his house, and the thing about it, he saw it as a joke.
He castigated Barbados’ Immigration Officers every chance he got.
So therefore everyone in the Caribbean was of the opinion that the laws of Barbados could easily be broken and disregarded. Now that we have a Gov’t that is seeking to return a semblance of order and respect for the law the very Barbados Labour Party is siding with all the illegal aliens in Barbados.
The last general election my entire family canvassed against the Barbados Labour Party, top of our agenda was the deluge of Guyanese into Barbados threatening the prosperity of Barbadians. We were able in our constituency to get Steve Blackett elected. Come next general election it will give us great pleasure in making sure that the Barbados Labour Party remains on the opposition side of the House of Assembly.
What is a Caribbean national??
A caribbean national is any individual that was born in the Caribbean. The Caribbean is consist of all the islands from the Bahamas down to Trinidad. Anyone that was born in South America is a south american, not caribbean.
Rumplestilskin says: “We do not need to read Mr.Henry’s article, indeed, if you read the blogs of three to four years ago, we bloggers ourselves predicted just this scenario, in light of the then impending recession and the ridiculous spending of the then administration”.
Rumplestilskin maybe you would want to itemize for the benefit of fellow bloggers the ridiculous spending of the last BLP administration that has, in your ill-informed opinion, led to our debt trap.
During the fourteen years that the BLP held the range of government in this country – between 1994 and 2008, the debt was raised by $1.4 billion and a blind man on a trotting horse can look around Barbados and see the benefits, the assets accumulated as a result of the money.
The blundering DLP wash into office in January of 2008 and as at the end of May 2009, they have increased this country’s debt by $1.5 billion. Let me reinforce the point Rumple. In fourteen years the BLP raised the debt by $1.4 billion while in sixteen (16) months the DLP raised the debt further by a whopping $1.5 billion and guest what – nothing to show for it. Not a single asset acquired, not a single initiative executed to build economic capacity that will help stabilized or grow this economy. I challenge you Rumplestilskin to show us where has the money been spent.
Rumpletilskin there is nothing wrong with debt if you have the savings to back it up and I know that you know that the BLP left over $2.7 billion in foreign reserves. You must tell us if it is true that those savings have now falling by over $1.5 billion and again the blundering DLP does not have a clue where it has gone.
Barbados is now clearly on a “pathway to poverty” firmly under the suffocating grip of a DLP government that has not a clue what it is doing.
Rumpletilskin says: “if you read the blogs of three to four years ago, we bloggers ourselves predicted just this scenario, in light of the then impending recession”.
So you were aware of the pending economic recession from that early? How come you never told Thompson? He certainly did not come to office with the plan of a man who understood that a recession was looming over Barbados. His actions since assuming office have made what was already bad situation worse and his call for help from the BLP is proof enough that he is a monumental letdown, a failure, and he should resign immediately.
Hi LivingInBarbados,
That is just another reason why Barbados should enforce the immigration laws.I’m sure you know Jamaican nationals have quite a few visa restrictions on their nationals.Bajans currently do not have to worry about Schengen or UK visit or transit visas as we are exempt.P.M. Thompson is even seeking to expand this to some of the French owned Caribbean islands & most likely Iceland & Norway as they were not part of the EPA agreement for obvious reasons.
I am quite well aware of the problems that UK citizens & their ILR familial members have when trying to enter Schengenland but I was always under the impression that as long as a spouse was with the EU citizen they wouldn’t need a schengen visa,regardless of if the UK is not apart of Schengen.At the very least,the visas are free for family members of EU citizens & you gotta love the hyper complicated EU travel directive.Another reality is that in this regard the EU is light years ahead of Caricom when it comes to regulations & free movement which I think you can agree but we may disagree that Caricom in general or *Barbados* simply isn’t ready.
The EU has Frontex & the Schengen Information System,What does Caricom have to ensure that each Caricom member state complies with the strict guidelines as it relates to having & most importantly to BAJANS *PROTECTING* a Caricom single space,NADA,NOTHING,ZILCH.
Caricom IMO,is simply trying to strategically build a house with no SECURE foundation & want all the benefits of being apart of being in Caricom without first having to think things through & WORK from the ground up.The rush to complete Free-movement of all nationals showcases that to me & I’m sure to many Bajans.The bottom-line is that Bajans simply do only NOT trust our neigbours with our Border security but the crime statistics from our neighbours further encourages that seperation.
I could make a whole bunch of recommendations to Caricom concerning laying the ground work for the Single space so that Bajans would be much more open to the project but I simply believe no one in Caricom has that patience or will to implement them,but simply put:
1.Get the crime levels down to a reasonably safe level in each CSME member state,period
2.Small island states within CSME with a High GDP per capita can keep their current implementations of CSME permanently.
3.Skilled free movement will be implemented ONLY & it can be fully implemented in the larger CSME states with unrestricted numbers.
4.Expand the function of the CSME units to ensure that each country is complying FAIRLY,which Barbados HAS done according to the CSME unit.
5.Insist that Caricom is still a Community of Sovereign states with similar ideals,NOTHING MORE.
If these basic things can be implemented then Bajans would certainly be more open if they are implemented WISELY & WITH PATIENCE WITH EACH MEMBER STATE.
I’m also very aware that the BNP party is threatening to exit the UK from the EU as they believe it corodes what is considered “English” so why can’t you understand that most Bajans would feel the same way about Caricom,LivingInBarbados ?
I forgot to add one last thing to the final statement” Racism aside of course”.
Themis
If the Nation newpaper was honest or the media in Barbados on the whole, would do some investgative journalism they would discover that there are many guyanese in Barbados who are scared of the influx of their countrypeople in Barbados. One told me, the same thing he ran from in Guyana is happening here but he isn’t running anymore. He has been in Barbados for just over 20 yrs.
@Jay
Agreed that Barbados (and Antigua and Barbuda, the Bahamas, and St. Kitts and Nevis) among English-speaking Caribbean countries gained a privilege with regard to Schengen only a few months ago. However, you look at it that creates a problem for those in Caricom, by having a dual rating for its countries. This is EU bilateral action, and it can be a door that swings another way.
On Eu free movement, you wrote: “I was always under the impression that as long as a spouse was with the EU citizen they wouldn’t need a schengen visa,regardless of if the UK is not apart of Schengen.At the very least,the visas are free for family members of EU citizens & you gotta love the hyper complicated EU travel directive”. This is certainly not the case, and you don’t have to think hard to see that if it were then “free” movement would bve very limited.
You make good suggestions regarding Caricom but many are not within its power/capabilities, as it is not an institution with any economic policy making role.
I will reflect on your last point, which suggests that Barbadians would prefer to not be part of a Caricom region. You may be right, and some would feel that it’s important enough for a referendum. But, as I have said on other threads, voters here have certain obligations and I wonder if they really want to hold them fully.
Royalrumble Rumpletilskin says: “if you read the blogs of three to four years ago, we bloggers ourselves predicted just this scenario, in light of the then impending recession”.
So you were aware of the pending economic recession from that early? How come you never told Thompson’
++++++++++
As I said, again I repeat, go to BFP blog and search recession. It was discussed ad nauseum, over three to four years ago.
Peace
No less a person than Mr George Lamming is observing the possible demise of CARICOM. This he surmises is for the same reasons as those for the break up of the Federation.
While we excoriate Mr Arthur for the promotion of the CSME, it is instructive that it was Mr Sandiford that was the first proponent of the idea along with the idea of a C’bean parliament.
While we believe that we can continue to go it alone, can anyone point out a small island state(under 200 sq miles) that is independent, not geographically close to a continent (i.e less than 10 km from a mainland) that is enjoying a high HDI? Mauritius comes to mind although it over 700 sq mls .
y. paris // June 25, 2009 at 9:29 pm
A caribbean national is any individual that was born in the Caribbean. The Caribbean is consist of all the islands from the Bahamas down to Trinidad. Anyone that was born in South America is a south american, not caribbean.
————————————————–
Thanks? Y.P, so citizens of Martinique are also caribbean nationals? Is there a sovereign entity that guarantees this Caribbean Nationality? is there such a THING as THE CARIBBEAN NATION?
Citizens of non-caricom countries( ie. Martinique, Guadeloupe, Bermuda, Dominican Republic, Cuba, Puerto Rico, United States Virgin Islands, British Virgin Islands, Bermuda, Turks and Caicos, St. Maarten are in the caribbean.
Being born in the region makes an individual a caribbean person. Also, although there is no such thing as caribbean unity because some of the islands are spanish, french, dutch, and english. Take for example, the United States Virgin Islands was a danish colony prior to 1917. Even today some of the streets are named after places in Denmark, the capital of the terrritory is Charlotte Amalie, named after a danish queen. So, a long time even danish was spoken in the caribbean. The point is, caribbean people have different heritage but share the region as caribbean people.
Before we get all twisted around notions of “Caribbean national”, it is a term, not a legal entity. The dictionaries will tell us that the term Caribbean relates to the Caribbean Sea, its islands, or its Central or South American coasts or to the peoples or cultures of this region, and relates to the Caribs or their language or culture.
The Bahamas and Bermuda are legally enrolled in things related to the Caribbean even though they are geographically situated in The Atlantic Ocean.
People in central and south American countries that have a Caribbean coast have people who could fit the description. For those who have not travelled or met people from Belize (former British Honduras) wil know that some have accents similar to Jamaicans.
The Guyanas, though situated in south America and having coasts to The Atlandtic Ocean are generally grouped with Caribbean for a range of cultural and historical reasons.
Venezuela and Colombia have Caribbean coasts and peoples living on the coastal areas are often offsprings of African slaves and call themselves Caribbean.
So, the little region has a lot of diversity. The English speakers tend not to delve that much into the French-, Spanish-, Dutch-, Portuguese- and other cultural groups thinking ‘is dem one dat matta’.
There’s a broadly shared heritage that comes out of colonization and slavery.
Lest current Bajans forget, this country is to where some or all of your ancestors were brought, in bondage. Nothing more or less. No shame in that, but never to be forgotten. Some of those ancestors went elsewhere, and some came from elsewhere too to make what is now called a nation.
David Thompson’s personal; inhumane, cruel and heartless deportation policy.
++++++++++++++++++
The ongoing discussion on immigration and David Thompson’s personal; inhumane, cruel and heartless treatment of Caribbean nationals, especially indo-Guyanese – is not who we are as Barbadians.
David Thompson and his tired outfit purport to be acting in the name of all Barbadians but that is misleading because they are confused about what is just, decent and humane.
Such cruel and inhumane treatment of undocumented Caribbean immigrants has placed Barbados in the vulnerable position as being an uncaring, arrogant and insensitive people.
Under this DLP rule of terror, Caribbean nationals (especially indo-Guyanese) are being rounded up like cattle and deported, while Chinese threaten to bulldoze the homes of Barbadians who were living on the land for over a half of a century.
Brand name Europeans and others (even though here illegal) are allowed to stay because of their so-called, philanthropic capacity – the very one which the DLP craves and sees as a substitute for diminished remittances and its economic mismanagement.
In share arrogance, it bothers English-born David Thompson little that regional scholars, respected regional journalist and Heads are disappointed that he is single handedly transforming Barbados into something that they cannot now recognise.
While the Dems purport that Thompson is like Obama, President Obama has a humane immigration policy.
In fact, while Mr. Obama has said he supports strong borders, and he voted to authorize the fence, he however said that a fence is not the best approach.
He preferred earned legalization, that is – Obama has said he supports allowing otherwise-law-abiding undocumented immigrants to obtain legal status if they pay a fine and back taxes, admit they’ve broken the law, learn English and go to the back of the line.
He supports the DREAM Act, which offers citizenship to college-bound young people brought to the United States illegally as children.
But observers believe that these proposals will have to wait behind priority issues like stimulating the economy, ending the war in Iraq and fixing the nation’s health care system.
Legal immigration reform: Obama favors fixing the “dysfunctional bureaucracy” in the legal immigration system, including eliminating backlogs for family based immigration.
In contrast, the DLP is committed to nothing and no one except big business and those who it considers philanthropists.
The DLP’s inhumane and discriminatory deportation policy therefore constitutes trademark DLP human rights violations, as well as the same cruel and inhumane treatment it gave persons from Nigeria who it imprisoned at a military base at Paragon, just like Bush did at Guantanamo.
There is no direction or sense to the DLP’s desperation to rid this country of Guyanese.
In fact Guyanese are being rounded up like cattle and deported by the plane loads, but unemployment is 10.1% and climbing.
But while the DLP talks about up-holding the law, it is collecting road tax illegally.
What law gives PM Thompson authority to raise taxes from the studio of CBC?
What is contained in the ”secret deal MOU,” which David Thompson entered into with his long-time legal client- Clico?
How much money did Clico put into the DLP pot?
Only the DLP would treat people in an inhumane way that violates their human rights and dignity – just as a political gimmick and a distraction tactic and as a game to hide the fact that it does not know what it is doing and is therefore creating a mess.
Hog Squeal and Royal Rumble, writing from within the leader of the Opposition’s Office give us a good clue as to what the BLP wants for Barbados. And what it is preparing to foment.
I do not know in the history of our country that we have ever had an Opposition so irrelevant to our development than this group.
Truth to tell, nothing they say, predict, advise or prescribe has any resonance with Barbadians. No one discusses their ideas other than they themselves.
From this distance, the BLP will be worse off after the next election.
David Thompson has high rating now because he is taking a leadership role. Look who is criticising him and who is praising him. He definitely has his hand on the pulse of Barbados.
He has turned the sceptical on this blog site into supporters of his policies.
Amazing.
@Slyvan
If i could of gotten near you ,i would of given you one BIG hug,
SENT THEM HOME.
I am meeting lots of them who tell me they have given up their jobs and are hiding out from immigration.
I repeat sent them home including Norman Faria,
Who them really think them is, This is our Country. Not one of us as Bajans can go to their Countries and make noise to stay their,we will be sent packing,Why are we so two mouthed.
the ignorant Landlords and whom ever else is saying that they are being unfaired is becaused they will no longer be able to expliot them.
Royal Rumble & Hog Squeal wanna cud go long with them too ,see how welcoming they will be to you.jackasses.
as the old people would say “wanna buy ground for mokey to play pun”
Camper says:
David Thompson has high rating now because he is taking a leadership role. Look who is criticising him and who is praising him. He definitely has his hand on the pulse of Barbados.
++++++++++++++++++
I have long made the point that the DLP can only survive in a society where the people do not think.
The brightest people in the Caribbean, like Professor Girvan, Dr. Joseph, Sir Ronald Saunder and highly respected journalist like Rickey Singh – have no confidence in thompson and less in his ability.
Even regional Heads selected the Guyana President to lead them in talks when they meet President Obama in July.
So disappointed with the drift in the region are they – that Manning has taken the lead to form an alliance with the OECS.
Barbados is in a “DLP manufactured crisis,” caused by thompson’s poor judgment and bad decision.
Instead of leadership, the DLP now resort to gimmicks and distraction tactics – all of which have back-fired.
So that, while the Barbados economy is in crisis – David Thompson is calling sick old men to come out of retirement to help him run this country.
Let us discuss that reality!
The reality is that the BLP has lost and the way how things look will loose in the next two consecutive elections!
THAT IS THE REALITY!
The brightest people in the Caribbean, like Professor Girvan, Dr. Joseph, Sir Ronald Saunder and highly respected journalist like Rickey Singh – have no confidence in thompson and less in his ability.
Even Regional Heads selected the Guyana President to lead them in talks when they meet President Obama in July.
When will there be a reshuffle of the Quasi-Caricom Cabinet as recommended by regional scholars – all of who know that Thompson is lost ?
” I wonder why didn’t the BLP party offer CSME as a referendum to the Barbados public ?”
________________________________
The referendum would have had to come prior to the signing of the Grand Anse Declaration in July 1989…………no?
I try to cut through the political talk and get to the substance. Royalrumble threw out a challenge to Rumplestiltskin based on what appear to be facts:
“Rumplestilskin maybe you would want to itemize for the benefit of fellow bloggers the ridiculous spending of the last BLP administration that has, in your ill-informed opinion, led to our debt trap.
During the fourteen years that the BLP held the range of government in this country – between 1994 and 2008, the debt was raised by $1.4 billion and a blind man on a trotting horse can look around Barbados and see the benefits, the assets accumulated as a result of the money.
The blundering DLP wash into office in January of 2008 and as at the end of May 2009, they have increased this country’s debt by $1.5 billion. Let me reinforce the point Rumple. In fourteen years the BLP raised the debt by $1.4 billion while in sixteen (16) months the DLP raised the debt further by a whopping $1.5 billion and guest what – nothing to show for it. Not a single asset acquired, not a single initiative executed to build economic capacity that will help stabilized or grow this economy. I challenge you Rumplestilskin to show us where has the money been spent.
Rumpletilskin there is nothing wrong with debt if you have the savings to back it up and I know that you know that the BLP left over $2.7 billion in foreign reserves. ”
Now, in any serious discussion where the participants are vying for the minds of readers and not appealing to emotion, the above challenge needs to be answered. A refusal or inability to answer it speaks volumes to those seeking truth. Rumple???
Imo,If the efforts of Jagdeo running Guyana is how he will try with the Caricom grouping he will certainly get a lot of kick back.
If you listen to the rumblings in the smaller islands in the carbbean it is well known that complete free-movement will not work.Trinidad just ordered 30 more illegal immigrants to leave,with 25 before that,Antigua just ordered a major review of its work permit & citizenship policies coupled with their new Chief immigration officer having served in the Antiguan Defence force & seem to be gearing for major operations,The former St. Kitts security minister doesn’t believe CSME has any benefits.
Imo,the ‘regionalists’ are just trying to repackage CSME & Caricom under different false pseudonyms when both clearly equal to the previously failed West Indian Federation,a spade is a spade lol.
@ Hog Squeal
“The brightest people in the Caribbean, like Professor Girvan, Dr. Joseph, Sir Ronald Saunder and highly respected journalist like Rickey Singh”
*************************************
Hog wash!!! Hog Squeal, you like you got swine flu yuh!!
What brightest people in what Caribbean what!!?!
No wonder your beliefs are so skewed…
Thompson as far I know has never claimed to be a great economist. How can someone of Thompson’s educational achievements be so easily dismissed?
I believe that he needs good advisers to help him. The stuff in the Cox Report and the Strategic Plan and such documents do not constitute serious economic planning.
Thompson must find serious economic thinkers who can put together workable plans and not merely write good prose.
It is time that the country gets a sense of how we are going to get out of the mess that we are in.
I do not blame Thompson for the mess. However he needs to show some leadership in getting us out of it.
I get the feeling that we are just drifting along.
The brightest people in the Caribbean, like Professor Girvan, Dr. Joseph, Sir Ronald Saunder and highly respected journalist like Rickey Singh – have no confidence in thompson and less in his ability.
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When they appear on a Barbados voters ballot, I will give them some serious thought until then they are foreigners with an opinion.
Will somebody, anybody, help out Rumplestilskin with a response to Royalrumble’s challenge?
Scout? Bush Tea? Carson? Adrian? WIV? anybody? David??
He is slow to answer the bell for the next round and is in danger of being counted out by objective observers.
To believe that Barbados is so seriously bereft of deep critical thinkers is NOT to doubted.
Just follow the Weekend Nation Newspaper, Friday, June 26, 2007, and one sees therein the patent lack of critical thinking skills being demonstrated by the person, or persons, who wrote the editorial in that particular issue under the caption: PROTECT POWER TO TAX.
Whereas, we must state that there are times when we in PDC have rightly condemned the fact that there exist very evil TAXATION policies and structures in Barbados, which are deliberately increasingly creating havoc and misery in the lives of the masses and middle classes of people of this country, there are times too when we have to direct our fury and rage at some people in Barbados who write in support of such a sick and stupid system, but who obviously ought to know better.
Hence, this is but one time we see it is as our bounden duty to deliberately pillory – NOT THE NATION – but the writer, or writers, of this very piss poor shabby editorial who sought to justify such a system of elaborate, wicked mass scale theft by the state of the relevant portions of the incomes of the relevant peoples, businesses and others in this country.
Whereas it is NOT our focus right now to deal with the specific TAXATION issue addressed in the editorial, there can be NO doubt about it that TAXATION is pure unadulterated theft ,and is a downright constant violation of the income and property rights of many individuals, businesses and others in this country.
Therefore, there can be NO constitutional or legal enshroudment or cloak in Barbados that can hide this fact. Furthermore, no amount of governmental administrative bureaucratic structures that have over the years been set in place by governments in Barbados to enforce TAXATION policies will be sufficient to hide the fact that thousands of people, businesses and other entities are being brazenly stolen from by the state.
Against that backdrop, therefore, it must be proffered that the writer, or writers, of this editorial must absolutely be viewed by our party as being supportive of the state stealing from those victims. For giving such support to such a wicked system must mean that such a writer, or writers, is ,or are, backward and wicked. And, surely, this particular NATION writer, or these particular NATION writers, must be strongly condemned by the PDC and all other right thinking people in Barbados for NOT only supporting mass theft by the state, BUT ALSO for seeking to perpetuate this stupid monstrous TAXATION ideology and philosophy, at a time when thousands upon thousands of Barbadian entities seek greater freedom from TAXATION and greater enlightenment on the whole.
So, rather than this NATION editorial speaking to the fact that it is now the state, or state leaders, who have now become like modern day tyrannical kings, the author(s) of it refuse to highlight the fact that TAXATION has done and continues to do great and untold damage to the citizenry and country – just like those kings and others did to the peoples of their countries and to the peoples of other countries via colonialism and imperialism.
Also, is totally wrong and backward for the editorial writer(s) to argue that the genesis of our present system of government started with NO TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION. How could such shocking nonsense be held up as valid? How could this present system have been started on one such idiotic principle? The truth is the genesis of the present form or type of government in Barbados took place long before and outside of the Oistin’s Charter, or long before and outside of those activities that did lead to the promulgation of such a charter.
Well, a greater leap into drunken folly takes place when the author(s) of this NATION editorial blurts that “every effort must be made to keep the taxing power firmly in the hands of the elected representatives of the people, sitting as a parliament”. Now, pray tell us in PDC what is the point of electing people into the parliament of this country, if as the editorial suggests – they should have this fascistic power to enforce this TAXATION system that loots and pillages the incomes of the relevant peoples of this country. What is the damn point, then??? Might the author(s) have wished for a fascist communist type political system for Barbados instead? and save voters the energy of electing people into parliament to do some of the things
that Hitler, Lenin and others used to do. What Barbadian democracy what then, may we in PDC ask?? Surely we in PDC do NOT and will NEVER believe in democracy on paper!!
Verily, there can be NO genuine power ascribed to a parliament of Barbados or a Minister of Finance of the country wherefore the relevant portion of the incomes of the relevant people of Barbados are on a daily basis being stolen from by the state. What taxing power what!! For if the editorial people at the NATION never knew it before, then they must know now, that it is the people of Barbados who have the real social political power, and NOT any parliament or any Minister of Finance presiding over a TAXATION system, or any editorial spouting foolish garbage in support of this wicked TAXATION system.
Finally, whether it is a parliament or a minister of finance or whosoever that continues to impose taxation on the relevant people, businesses and other entities of Barbados, the one very sure thing is this: that whenever a PDC Government is elected into this country there shall be the ABSOLUTE ABOLITION OF TAXATION in this country, thus freeing thousands upon thousands of people of this country from this ever tightening noose around their necks – this evil scourge of TAXATION, and at the same time this process would be taking place there shall be the implementation of alternative fiscal and revenue generating systems and strategies whereby the state and state leaders shall use the means and resources at the disposal of the state to greater earn its own revenues without stealing from the people.
PDC
While I am aware that, as part of its job creation strategy, the DLP is paying $0.50 per pound for Barbadians to pick African Snails, I am not in a position to say whether a bounty of $75 is being paid by the Immigration Department to DLP members and supporters who call the Immigration Department to inform on Guyanese living within their communities.
What is ugly – is that Guyanese are being rounded up and deported without even the courtesy to pack their suitcase.
Here is how it works:
1. A DLP member or supporter calls the Immigration Department to say where Guyanese live.
2. The DLP member and supporter then gets $75.00. (not yet confirmed)
3. The Immigration turns up and load the Guyanese on a bus – sometimes chaining them with a rope.
4. Once the Immigration bus/van heads to the airport, DLP members and supporter move into the vacant house and remove the clothing, jewelry, furniture and fitting and anything of value left by the Guyanese.
Deportation of Guyanese is therefore a lucrative business for the DLP.
Their members inform on Guyanese and get rich in the process by stealing the possessions of Guyanese – once they are deported
Inkwell… Objective? You are a hard-ass, well-known BLP hack.
You have my permission Veritas, to unmask me before all. Since you can’t, you ought to slink away with your tail between your legs, guilty of the charge of attacking with invective the proponent of an argument for which you have no answer. Shame on you.
Royalrumble may not be everyone’s favourite person, but he on this occasion made specific points which other people would rather be downplayed, no, buried, because they contradict their arguments.
That is outright dishonesty, and the Rumplestilskins of this blog ought to be thoroughly ashamed of themselves, not least for stooping to vituperation instead of advancing a counter argument.
Yes, objective readers do observe.
Here is what inspired the DLP’s Inhumane Deportation Policy:
1. Guyanese and people from the OECS are not philanthropists, hence Thompson will not have any use for them.
2. Guyanese and people from the OECS form part of a distraction tactic – so Barbadians would not focus on the economy, but would incorrectly blame Guyanese ( and not the DLP) for the hardship they (Barbadians) now endure.
3. Rounding up Guyanese and OECS nationals and deporting them is the DLP’s idea of a job creation strategy – hence the DLP’s public statement that Barbados is for Barbadians first and Thompson’s threat to the local private sector, not to employ people from CARICOM.
Who says history does not repeat itself: “Pol Pot, Benito Mussolini, Adolph Hitler, Idi Amin, Slobodan Milosevic, Charles Taylor Osama Bin Laden, Chemical Ali, David Thompson of Barbados and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and Ali Khamenei of Iran.”
David Thompson hates Guyanese as much as Hitler hated the Jews.