I was one of the first to research how AIDS was presented when it was first discovered. I am also an expert in homosexual causation. I can assure you that homosexuality is a very bad sexual choice. It is bad because it kills. Though most cases of HIV are now heterosexual, it is only because gays passed it on. Once homosexuality is legalised it spreads like cancer and HIV increases greatly. Do not let government legalise what is clearly a nasty lifestyle. As has been found in the UK and USA, once you legalise it, gays bring in many more even nastier sexually immoral things… pedophilia is waiting around the corner!
Commenter Dr.K .B Napier
The above quote was submitted by a commenter to a previous article we wrote titled, Democratic Labour Party (DLP) & Barbados Labour Party (BLP) Get Failing Grade On the Issue Of Homosexuality. The commenter purports to be a doctor. Although we can’t confirm the veracity of the credentials of ‘Dr.Napier’, a Google search tossed-up several results when we used ‘Dr. Napier’ as a key word. Soon after Dr. Napier’s comment was posted, we received the following comment from a ‘Dr. Bartholomew’ which challenges Dr. K.B Napier’s comment.
The basis of hatred, intolerance and discrimination is ignorance.
This comment from “Dr K. B. Napier” about homosexuality and pedophilia is not only designed to perpetuate hatred, it is so wrong and ignorant that it could be dangerous if those who may be vulnerable to pedophilia are distracted by it. So, while I am a married person with kids, and am comfortable in my heterosexuality, let me put the facts about homosexuality and pedophilia.
“There is no medical evidence to suggest an association between homosexuality and impaired moral judgment.” – Journal of the American Medical Association – Paediatric Forum, March 2001
“It is ludicrous to identify pedophiles as homosexuals.” – Stan Robson, Chief Deputy, Benton County Sheriffs Department (In over 14 years of Robson’s work with pedophiles, 498 out of 500 offenders identified themselves as heterosexual.)
“The vast majority of offenders are heterosexual men. Male offenders who abuse young boys maintain adult heterosexual relationships. The habitual molester of boys is rarely attracted to adult males.” – Roland Summit, M.D. Head Physician, Community Consultation Service, Harbor UCLA Medical Center.
“The belief that homosexuals are particularly attracted to children is completely unsupported by our data. The child offenders who engaged in adult relationships as well, were heterosexuals. There were no homosexual adult oriented offenders in our samples who turned to children.” – A. Nicholas Groth, Ph.D., Director of the Sex Offender Program, Connecticut Department of Corrections, and Co-Director of the St. Joseph College Institute for the Treatment and Control of Child Sexual Abuse
Additionally, in their article titled “Facts About Homosexuality and Child Molestation”, the U.C. Davis Psychology Department concludes:
“The empirical research does not show that gay or bisexual men are any more likely than heterosexual men to molest children. This is not to argue that homosexual and bisexual men never molest children. But there is no scientific basis for asserting that they are more likely than heterosexual men to do so. And, as explained above, many child molesters cannot be characterized as having an adult sexual orientation at all; they are fixated on children.”
The above statements from experts in the field speak volumes about the inaccurate and misleading statements trying to equate homosexuals with pedophiles. Blinded by such statements many people do not know exactly what homosexuality and pedophilia are. One need look no farther than one’s own dictionary to discover the difference between the two:
ped·o·phil·i·a – n.: a mental disorder which belongs to a larger group known as the paraphilias. In pedophilia, carnal lust is disconnected from adult “romantic love.”
ped·o·phile – n: an adult who actively fantasizes about, or engages in sexual activities with prepubescent children.
ho·mo·sex·u·al·i·ty – n.: a sexual attraction to (or sexual relations with) persons of the same sex.
ho·mo·sex·u·al – adj.: Of, relating to, or having a sexual orientation to persons of the same sex.
molestThis is not to say that there are no pedophiles who are homosexual. However, to make the blanket statement that all homosexuals have a propensity towards pedophilia is false and misleading. The fact that homosexuality has nothing whatsoever to do with pedophilia was also recognized in the U.S. Federal Court system. In the United States Court of Appeals, Sixth Circuit, in the case of Equality Foundation of Greater Cincinnati, Inc. vs. City of Cincinnati, a bench trial was held where the judge made the following findings:
* Sexual orientation is a characteristic which exists separately and independently from sexual conduct or behavior.
* Sexual orientation bears no relation to an individual’s ability to perform, contribute to, or participate in society.
* There is no correlation between homosexuality and pedophilia. Homosexuality is not indicative of a tendency towards child molestation.
* Homosexuality is not a mental illness.
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Barbados Underground 
Barbados will never grt to this stage!!!!!!!!
NEVER
who cares to differentiate between the two. Our ability to reason, and recognize the unmistakable facts that nature and reality presents to us tells us that these behaviours are not normal by design. Also the Journal of The American Medical association has been hijacked by various social groups to omit and insert whatever they feel too. It is hardly a record without any number bias, and forced opinions.
Why would u want to ‘understand’ it? That’s possibly, the problem with modern society, we strive too, hard to ‘understand’ for which substitue sympathise and tolerate, everything, no matter how obviously, evil and unnatural! The end result is the serious, moral erosion of our societies.
What we need is more standing-up for what is right, and less willingness, to be ‘understanding’!!!!
Bimbro please don’t let us split hairs. To know what is right it becomes logical to understand what it is you are fighting for. Homosexuality is wrong if we apply any yard stick for measure. It is wrong like adulterous behaviour, stealing, etc. As a society we agree that we are more tolerant of certain wrongs over others. That’s life, and homosexuals will have to get use to it. We will love them as human being but we hate the deviant behaviour they practice. This is a tension which will not go away soon and could cause the fall of modern society.
David, you seem to think that we’re in disagreement, here. We are not! I’m opposed to the evil as much as you are, if not more so!
Don’t know why you thought I took an opposite view! My point is that we’re far too, keen to try to understand people’s unacceptable behaviour these days which is leading to the erosion of our society!!!!
Who is harmed by homosexual behaviour? and if so, how?
If you want to “understand” it, then surely the best way of doing that would be to try it.
(And make sure to write back afterwards and let us know the outcome.)
bb ff pp ee
I am not a homosexual, but I can see that saying homosexuality is evil, is to lose all moral compass.
Evil is the genocide of people in history. Evil is slavery. Evil is the slave trade. Evil are those who profit from causing harm to others in the search for cheap profits, and once they have made their money preach about family values. Evil is about causing grievous harm to others. Evil is the trafficking of human beings that has been discussed in Barbados in recent days. How does homosexuality measure up to that?
At the core of moral behaviour is how you treat others. To call a behaviour between consenting adults, behind closed doors that does not effect anyone else as evil, to be equated with other evil things I mentioned above, makes no moral sense.
To say so means you have no reliable moral framework. It means you do not know what is evil and what is not. To say so suggests that you are so insecure about your own sexuality that you need to define sexuality in black and white. To say that it is evil, not because we can reason why but because the good book says so is to forget that the good book says many things that we would not accept today. It was written hundreds of years ago by people living in a different context. There are a great many Christians who doubt that the world was made in six days, but do not doubt the value of love and forgiveness.
It is profound to follow the quality of thinking being presented here, because it will be used against those of us who believe in defending blogs in Barbados. Someone makes an unfounded misleading assertion about homosexuality and pedophilia. It is a medically dangerous assertion because it could make someone feel falsely secure about the pedophilia risk to their children. I present the facts that shows it is a misleading and false statement (two cheers to David for publishing it even though he does not share my views). Because they cannot argue against the facts, others respond that facts and understanding are not relevant, or try to question the veracity of one of the several pieces of fact I presented. (Find me a top medical, peer review, journal – they all have their rankings – that has evidence that contradicts what I presented. Not a well funded southern US, christian fundamentalist magazine.)
Thinking debate is about distinguishing belief from facts and questioning belief when it suggests things which turn out to be untrue. That is the basis of discourse in the post-enlightenment age.
If we say what we like, assert things which preach hatred as true, and when presented with conflicting facts, say that facts and understanding are not relevant, then they will find ways to close down the blogs which would be a loss to us all. Beware that there are already laws against the preaching of hatred against those of difference in many countries. Countries like China already censors its web. I want free blogs, but I accept that freedom comes with some basic responsibility.
You do not need to like what others do, but follow the lasting message of the good book. Remember the parable of the good Samaritan in Luke, chapter 10, verses 25-37. Recall that the Samaritans and Jews hated each other. Stop hating those you do not know and understand and go out and love thy neighbour.
I’ve know gays, I’ve worked and studied with them. They were my bosses, my teachers, they were all around me. I learnt how humane they can be but I still have an absolute disapproval of their life style. But then again, I disapprove of violence of any form, immorality, abuse, ……..
Male Homosexuality
My heart is harden to male homosexuality
And I have a lower threshold for sodomy
Lascivious, unnatural whatever descript
Evil I think is my favorite
How short a word with very clear meaning
Ordinary people understand immediately my feeling
Many scientific reports try to explain this slant
Or anthropologists and psychologist offer twisted rant
So many explanations to justify this iniquity
Evil is the only explanation that is for me
Xenophobic I may be against these minority few
Unable to accept the disturbing things they do
And yet I understand that they are still men
Loving and kind, often tidy and caring
I understand their complications and turmoil
The ridicule they feel when heterosexuals recoil
Your life is a living hell and you’re headed there too
Evil will always have this promise for you
Dr. Bartholomew // January 24, 2008 at 9:53 am
I am not a homosexual, but I can see that saying homosexuality is evil, is to lose all moral compass.
Evil is the genocide of people in history. Evil is slavery. Evil is the slave trade. Evil are those who profit from causing harm to others in the search for cheap profits, and once they have made their money preach about family values. Evil is about causing grievous harm to others. Evil is the trafficking of human beings that has been discussed in Barbados in recent days. How does homosexuality measure up to that?
=============================
Question for Mr. Bartholomew: You have just define and measured Evil. You did so without the help or agreement from Bimbro, who have use the word “Evil” to define Homosexuality, maybe it was in passing maybe he has a detail conviction on why this is so, nevertheless, what gives you the right to set the defines and to determine what is the acceptible measurement if any for someone to conclude that this lifestyle is “Evil”?
Why do you feel the need to convince Bimbro that he needs a redefinition of evil and homosexuality?
Stay Away Your Uncle is Gay
So much we shared yet never once did he say
That he had been living the life of a gay
And all these years I left my sons with him
Young 3 years old Bobby and 14 years old Jim
Amery is my brother and it was always the case
Whenever I traveled the boys stayed at his place
And he treated them like his own, with loving care
You’d think something this important he’d want to share
Yesterday I learnt that he was living a lie
Over the last 3 months his roommate was a guy
Unfinished work overseas was calling me away
Right then I made the usual plans for the boys to stay
Uncle Ami, the boys told me, “no longer lives alone.”
Now he shares with Berk so I got on the phone
Call him up, while still giving him the benefit of the doubt
Lies and deceptions made me feel to shout
Everything we had earlier meant to each other
I felt like I no longer had feelings for my brother
Such a lifestyle would expose my boys to a great evil
God wants us to live righteously and carry out His will
And though we love Uncle Ami you must follow what I say
You can never go by him again, stay away your uncle is gay
Khaidji // January 24, 2008 at 10:46 am
I’ve know gays, I’ve worked and studied with them. They were my bosses, my teachers, they were all around me. I learnt how humane they can
********************************
Any deviant is usually, ‘humane’, in order to win acceptance! Are u only now, discovering this, K!!!!
Adrian, I can’t even be bothered to read all the crap which that ‘Dr’ has written there & I’m not interested in any definiton or re-definiton of hom0sexuality! We all know what it is!
These people will twist and turn logic and decent principles, any which way, in order to gain their way, and the truth is, because of pathetic, soft in the head, politicians, they’re winning!
We must stand up to them. Why should we invariably, concede to them!!!!
We, unashamedly, STAND UP FOR DECENCY!!!!
Sounds like Bimbro has some repressed issues and khaidji poems are really not the clearest way of getting a point across
At the core of moral behaviour is how you treat others. To call a behaviour between consenting adults, behind closed doors that does not effect anyone else as evil, to be equated with other evil things I mentioned above, makes no moral sense.
==============================
This behaviour has long left the bedroom and other places of privacy. It is dead center in the heart of the public square, daring, and demanding all to see it, to accept it, and exercising a ruthless willingness to have objectors ostracize, fired, destroyed, and charged. Some practitioners of this behaviour have willfully bypass the people via their legislators to set the laws of the society by going to the SJC of Massachusetts to have 9 Judges in a 5-4 majority ruling in essence say that thousands of years of an accepted understand that Marriage is between a man and woman be null and void because that actual law does not explicitly say that and does not explicitly say two person of the same sex cannot be married. The Behaviour is being push in our face by it’s militant practitioners and I for one will not retreat from my 12 inches of personal space.
If Bimbro and others have decided to take the contents of the Bible over the contents of your highly politicize medical journals, he is perfectly within his rights to so do, no less than the practioners of this Behaviour are with in their right to so practice.
I guess Mr. Hinds would like to see a return to other biblically inspired values like stoning and slavery.
Confused 888 // January 24, 2008 at 11:16 am
I guess Mr. Hinds would like to see a return to other biblically inspired values like stoning and slavery.
=============================
You guess wrong. Didn’t Mr. Bartholomew just spoke about the importance of Facts over beliefs? Must he also have stated the importants of facts over guessing? You could simpy asked me rather than be wrong, but i gather that you may be of the opinion that you my thoughts better than i can.
…now I understand the need of some to keep the debate on the religous objections to this behaviour. I don’t need religion to make my arguement for me.
Now this debate can get very muscular, nature and what is natural for humans gets featured in my argument, in the most crude way. 😀
Question: Why do most of us believe that homosexuality is wrong, or sin or abnormal?
Answer: Because we are taught so. That is those who had a religious upbringing based on the Bible (recall that all religion is not based on the Bible or on its correct interpretation.)
Now all of us sin; and most of us accept that when we do wrong or evil that it is sin. But there are some who are well described in Romans 1:22 — Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools. That is why the goodly doctor is speaking such bovine excrement. Being wise in his profession and things of this world his foolish heart was darkened as stated in this same passage so he becomes like a fool.
Beginning in verse 18-19 of Romans 1, Paul asserts that ungodliness and unrighteousness of men result when men hold the truth that God hath shewed to them in unrighteousness. He further states that there is no excuse because men know of the eternal power of God.
Verse 21 (and 25) states that, because when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened, not only have such men become fools as they profess to be wise, and become inter alia idolaters and who also changed the truth of God into a lie.
Verse 24 then stresses that it is because of such thinking that …. God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
Verse 26-28 then points out that it is for this cause that God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
Like to goodly Bartholomew, I too have read the peer review papers in the medical journals, and I can find no proper rational physiological or psychological reasons for persons to be homosexual. To decide to do evil is to decide not to do good. To decide the break the laws of God or country is a decision to be contrary thereto.
We can either decide to believe and trust God (and that can be hard at times) or we can choose to go our own way. We can choose to engage in sex as we were anatomically and physiologically designed or we can decide that as God’s creatures to be more “creative” than God- because that is what sexual deviance is….. a sort of malevolent creativity.
There is nothing else to understand about homosexuality or other types of sins as the rest of Romans 1 demonstrates. Men chose to deny God’s rule in their lives and choose to go the wrong way.
Yes, I know, 888. Try to make ME out as the deviant, now! I now, bro. I’ve seen it all before!
No wonder I’ve got no time for all of you, homos!!!!
Ad, I don’t mind what they do as consenting adults, behind closed doors. The fact is, they don’t let it stop there but try to entice the rest of us. Do you see how every other man in the UK, now seems to be a homo!!
That’s why I hate them. Won’t cease till they’ve turned the whole world, gay!!!!
Stoning for gays!!!! Doan put ideas in our heads now!!!! Laaad!!!! 🙂
Confused 888 wrote
I guess Mr. Hinds would like to see a return to other biblically inspired values like stoning and slavery.
=============================
Stoning was a method of capital punishment for certain sins including homosexuality.
Do you really think that slavery is not with us today? Homosexual folk are themselves enslaved just as drug addicts and paediophiles, and we can go on.
We all have a choice we can accept the Bible way or we can go another way. Then we can talk all the junk we like, but in the end GOd will decide, for it is appointed unto man once to die, and after that the judgement.
If I am wrong, then nothing has been lost. But if I am correct? Then…………..?
Adrian Hinds wrote
the Journal of The American Medical association has been hijacked by various social groups to omit and insert whatever they feel too. It is hardly a record without any number bias, and forced opinions.
Good stoke Adrian.
We have to understand that JAMA and many other medical journals are filled with a lot of junk by teachers who have to publish in order to keep their jobs. They are required to research and publish. So guess what they publish—– and much of what they do publish is bare boo!
I agree with Bimbro who states that — What we need is more standing-up for what is right, and less willingness, to be ‘understanding’! That nonsense came out from the Dr Spock renaissance of discipline children. When we say DON’T we have to make them understand instead of teaching them to obey. I can tell you that when I disobeyed my parents and teachers in my time and also God in certain matters I have been taught who is boss.
Bimbro correctly asks Why would u want to ‘understand’ homosexuality? That’s possibly, the problem with modern society, we strive too, hard to ‘understand’ or sympathise and tolerate, everything, no matter how obviously, evil and unnatural! The end result is the serious, moral erosion of our societies. Bimbro also correctly pointed out that the keenness to try to understand people’s unacceptable behaviour these days is leading to the erosion of our societies
Unlike David, I don’t think it is necessary to understand what is right to know what is right. Understanding often comes long after knowledge. I knew for example that fire burns long before I understood the nature of the physics of heat or the physiology of the way fire causes pain. We can expect that a preponderance of homosexuality will cause the fall of modern society, just as it was a factor in leading to the fall of the great civilizations of the past..
To cut to the quick:
God made Adam and Eve; he told them to be fruitful and multiply.
That is the clear order of creation and society in God’s plan for mankind.
God is not a man that he should change His mind.
He went on to back it up, as Georgie Porgie so succinctly gave mention of, not once, not twice but numerous times in both the Old and NEW TESTAMENT.
Unless you can convince us that the Creator made a mistake and is now trying to “cover up” for so doing, I believe the subject is moot.
So what will Mia Mottley have to do by 2013 for her to secure your vote for the candidate and party that she will Lead on a wave to become Prime Minister?
1: Get Married
2: Get Married to a MAN
3:Get Married to a MAN and have a child
😀 😀 😀
Yes number 3 it is. Rather than posing with some else’s child named after you, go and get your own Mia. 😀
I wonder how this child will feel when she grows up to know that she was named after a woman made famous “fuh biting”? some parents are just cruel 😀
Adrian Hinds,
Are you Adrian or Adrianne?
Only effeminate men behave like you do.
If you are a real man, try to act like one.
You claim to have arguments but you reject all reputable science, you claim to be Christians, but preach a hatred that is unchristian. You claim to know what God said based on what was written down, but any one who has studied the gospels knows that they are laced with inconsistencies, errors and disputes. The word cannot be interpreted literally. Incidentally, there are more than a few gay theologians.
Your entire rationality is bounded by an oversimplistic interpretation of what was written down in a few of the Gospels. Theologians would be embarrassed by your logic. It provides no room for reasoned discourse. It provides no framework for developing ideas and changing your mind on anything because you reject any facts and science that are not on your terms.
It is the kind of warped ignorance that is harmful. It is leading some parents in the US “moral majority” to teach their children that evolutionary biology is wrong and “Creationism” is right despite science disproving the main tents of creationism. It is why 100 years of the Nobel Prize does not count any Creationist amongst them – oh but I forgot you reject all science and awards that do not support your views.
But what is most shocking is your indecency and hatred towards other human beings. It is unchristian. I feel forced to leave this site.
Thank you for letting me join over the past two days. I wish you more peace, love and foregiveness than you show to your neighbours. I do recommend that you spend less time blogging between the four of you and read a little more widely.
Adrian Hinds
She does not have to do any of the three. I ts is possible that the Bajan society (God forbid) can become so decadent that God might very well give us up
up to uncleanness through the lusts of the heart, abd to dishonour their own bodies between themselves as taught in Romans 1:24
If we become decadent God might give us up unto vile affections: so that even the women change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burn in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient as is taught in verses 26-28.
Mia does not need to change to get our vote. If we dont change our tendency to decadence God will GIVE US UP & GIVE US OVER
So what we have to do is focus on being RIGHT, then MIA will be so LEFT that she will be taken care of.
Adrian Hinds or Adrianne Hinds? // January 24, 2008 at 5:18 pm
Adrian Hinds,
Are you Adrian or Adrianne?
Only effeminate men behave like you do.
If you are a real man, try to act like one.
=============================
wait so this means i get to lead somebody? 😀
…..BTW you think Mottley will ever answer Sinklers’ call for her to come clean on “Biting”?
Dr. Bartholomew:
The historical portions of Scripture clearly portray God’s mercy to mankind who have accepted that they have sinned. Yet the Holy Scriptures also show that particular men have been gifted by God to call others to repentance. That is: telling them what is wrong with what they are doing. The man Isaiah and the boy Jeremiah. Further the Word says that if a man hear this and change from his wicked ways, God in His mercy, will forgive that person. However, when even God’s chosen people were stiff-necked i.e. self-righteous, God brought destruction inescapably upon them. There is always someone called to the ignominous task of saying to people: They are going wrong and the Scriptural history records that those people were stoned, sawn in two, fed to the lions and persecuted beyond measure by those who refused to accept that THEY could be wrong.
The prophetic portion has an argument in which the “audience” accused the Creator of being unjust/unequal: Ezekiel Chapter 18.
The Gospels record the life of One who stood before His Father without fault but suffered at the hands of those who would not accept their own sins.
He was justified by being one of few who have returned from the grave and one of three in Scripture who was transported up to heaven.
Science has its place in portraying to men the knowledge of the physical world and only those who have come to the low estate of thinking themselves mere physical creatures would refute the Word of God with Science. See the Book of Timothy Chapter 6.
Bartholomew you are behaving as though you cant read. I did not reject any reputable science. I just told the truth about the lot of junk that you and I know that is printed in scientific journals. You see being a scientist or a doctor is not the end all and be all of my existence.
I have not preached hatred in my posts. I have sought only to rightly divide a signatory passage from the book of Romans. It is the proof text on the subject.
Your claim that “anyone who has studied the gospels knows that they are laced with inconsistencies, errors and disputes.” Have you ever studied the Gospels? For a better understanding of the Gospels and to clarify the maze that you and others seem to have about the Gospels download and read WHY FOUR GOSPELS by Arthur Pink. I think he studied the Gospels a bit more than most.
You are just bringing red herrings of the trail for I never quoted from any of the Gospels. In fact you show your ignorance of both the Gospels and Romans when you state that my entire rationality is bounded by an oversimplistic interpretation of what was written down in a few of the Gospels. I argued from the exact text that all real theologians must go to deal with the subject of understanding where homosexuality comes from. Read the text Bartholomew
Then you foolishly say that the word cannot be interpreted literally. But we can interpret scientific articles literally, even though the opinions vary from author to author and from year to year. Scientists can write articles that can be interpreted litterally, but the book that God cannot be interpreted literally? You fit well into Romans 1:22. You have condemned yourself.
For instance when you read in Philippians about the peace of God that passeth all understanding, it means exactly that—the peace of God that passeth all understanding.
Here is a good rule for interpreting the WORD Sir.
WHEN THE PLAIN SENSE MAKES COMMON SENSE, SEEK NO OTHER SENSE, BUT INTERPRET EVERY WORD ACCORDING TO HIS NORMAL FACE VALUE UNLESS THE CONTEXT STATE OTHERWISE.
That’s how you start. Then you check the word studies by the Greek scholars.
When the Word is rightly divided there is no room for reasoned discourse, nor does it provide a framework for developing ideas and changing your mindas you put it. It usually always come down to word studies.
The Word of God standeth sure. It does not allow for shadow of turning. In the OT men were summarily stoned for say adultery under the dispensation of the Law.In this dispensation of Grace, God is more lenient according to the tenets of 2 Peter 3:9. There are no facts or science whether physiology or any scientology that states that homosexuality is right..
Re It is the kind of warped ignorance that is harmful. It is leading some parents in the US “moral majority” to teach their children that evolutionary biology is wrong and “Creationism” is right despite science disproving the main tents of creationism.
It is widely known dear Dr that the evolutionary biologists are only taken seriously by those fittingly described in Romans 1:22, and that NO ONE has or can disprove creation. The Scripture rightly asks Where were you when I made the world This is the warped ignorance that is harmful. Because in our societies we sometimes feel that if we are lawyers and doctors we can spout nonsense about anything and everything, even though we are discussing issues we have not studied.
You might know some medicine and read lots of silly books that do not matter at the final day at the White Throne Judgement! Even a little child on the other hand can answer the important questions about John 1:1-3.
In the beginning was the WORD, and the WORD was with GOD, and the WORD was GOD. ALL THINGS WERE MADE BY HIM AND WITH OUT HIM WAS NOTHING MADE THAT WAS MADE. IN HIM WAS LIFE! This passage teaches that
He is ETERNALLY GOD
He is ESSENTIALLY GOD
He is EQUALLY GOD
He is EXCELLENTLY GOD IN CREATION
Do you know him Sir?. That’s the main issue of life. .
He made the MACROCOSM
He made the MICROCOSM
And this is illustrated on television day and night on Animal Planet , Discovery Channel, and National Geographic Channel. That’s what those programs are teaching Sir ?.
Dr Bartholomew I also learned that evolutionary biology BS at school. We all know that evolution is most irrational when compared to the Genesis account. The Genesis accounts at least gives us a logical progression. Light and water needed for photosynthesis were made and then plant life was produced BEFORE the appearance of animal life, whether terrestrial , aquatic or arboreal, and the Bible teaches that all these life forms reproduce after their kind. Since 1950 we understand that that repeated phrase in Genesis 1 obviously refers to DNA! The Bible in I Peter 1 and in Isaiah 40 declares that ALL FLESH IS GRASS; another scientific fact that we now fully accept in Biology class. We call it the food chain doctor.
If you want to talk about Science and Creationism Dr Sir, turn with me to Hebrews 11: 3 which reads “By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God’s command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible.” Is not that what we believe today about atomic theory according to Rutherford and Bohr et all since 1936 or so.
Is this not corroborated in Romans 1:20 which says “For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made”
Check Vine and Wuest and Hort or Barclay and all those that spent 50 years apiece studying NT Greek to help us understand what the NT really says.
I cant say whether there are Creationist amongst the Nobel Prize winners of the last 100 years, but it is well known that most of the British scientists that we scientists revere were believers of the Word of God, and knew how to rightly divide it. Faraday Newton and others
I would rather be a door keeper in the house of the Lord and take my place at the glassy sea with the four and twenty elders and return with the Lord in the thousands as recorded in Jude than have a Nobel Prize.
I never said that I rejected any science and awards, I just stated , and I reiterate that in the lofty halls of academia that if you want to keep your job you have to publish! You know as well as I do that as a result that students are taught how to read the literature critically so that they may not be misled.
I have my self taught medical students in my Pharmacology classes how to listen and dispel the nonsense told to them by Drug representatives. Then we invited in some reps. I then released “my dogs” on those reps and laughed in glee as they took a mauling.
I have said nothing that is indecent or hateful towards other human beings. I have just rightly divided the major or proof text on the subject of the genesis of the sin of each individual as the Bible teaches it. I did not introduce spurious red herrings like evolution or creatinism.
Christianity (not Christendom) has to do with reading, marking, learning and inwardly digesting the word of God and seeking to live thereby. This is the gist of the collect for Bible Sunday or the second Sunday in Advent which I learned before I was a teen!
I am sure that you are forced to leave this site, because in my case you are up against one of Barbados’ best. Besides qualifying in medicine like you, I also have like Timothy, studied the Bible since childhood and hold a DMin. I can assure you that I had to read much more widely in and about the Word to get my DMin than I had to get my MBBS Sir.
So how do you propose to convince non-christians of the validity of your view point?
Confused 888 // January 25, 2008 at 6:59 am
So how do you propose to convince non-christians of the validity of your view point?
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That will be left up to others like me. 😀
…..So is Mia a non christian person? 😀
The arguments agaisnt homosexuality that I have seen here seem to be all christain based. I would like to know what other reasons people claim to dislike/disapprove/condem homosexuality?
As for Mia? I don’t know anyone called Mia to venture if they are a Christian or non-christain… any not all Christians condemn homosexuals as the Anglican church will demonstrate.
Here is an interesting comparison.
Obesity vs Homosexuality
Suppose that we say that homosexuality is a ‘lifestyle choice’ amongst a group of individuals who are genetically predisposed to ambiguous sexuality. After all, this is the extreme end of the current scientific consensus re. the aetiology of homosexuality.
We are then faced with a similar situation as obesity as a societal issue.
Do we discriminate against fat people?
They have choices don’t they?
Maybe they choose to be fat?
Is being fat a sign of loose moral character?
How comfortable do you feel about these statements?
Does the bible not identify greed and gluttony as sins?
Hence we are faced with a similar “deviant” lifestyle ( I use this word only because others have used this against gay people).
Maybe Mia Mottley should be deemed doubly unfit to govern (or lead) by virtue of her weight AND sexuality!!!!!
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Let us not judge others lest we be judged!
In the continuum which makes up the spectrum of human sexuality there may be more bisexual individuals than homosexuals.
Any comments from the bigots on that one?
Confused 888 et al
So how do you propose to convince non-christians of the validity of your view point?
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That is not by job. My job is to present the Word. Jesus taught that when the Holy Spirit came he would have the job of convicting people of sin. Thus convincing non-christians of the validity of my view point is the function of the Spirit of God. The scriptures teach also that the Holy Spirit is the teacher of the Word. The proof texts for this are I John 2:20 & 27.
The arguments against homosexuality that I have seen here seem to be all christain based. I would like to know what other reasons people claim to dislike/disapprove/condem homosexuality?
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Perhaps the reason for that is because as a “christian” community we argue from what we were taught or believe. I have never personally read any other reasons elsewhere than in “religious” writings. Scientifically I have not seen any compelling arguments or studies to sanction that it should be the norm or practiced, or that it is genetically predisposed. Which genetic model? Certainly if it was simple Mendelian inheritance 1 in 4 at least in each family with gay parents would be gay.
With respect to the questions on obesity, the bible does indeed identify greed and gluttony as sins, but obesity is not necessarily due to gluttony. Obesity results primarily from aking in more calories by an individual than they burn up. Some folk are obese because they have a low metabolic rate. Recently I watched a documentary in which a woman’s obesity was found to be due to the fact that she had a pituitary adenoma which was affecting her ACTH levels.
A lot of folk do discriminate against fat people.
I have never met a patient who choose or liked to be fat. Obesity is definitely not a sign of loose moral character. Obesity has nothing to do with morals.
Many fat folk I know fight with their obesity. Some are simply fat because of the poor eating habits of their family circle. There is nothing deviant about obesity.
Let us not judge others lest we be judged!
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‘Fat People….’, this is another cliche and A COWARDLY, COP-OUT!
Why not judge people! That’s a cowardly, pathetic excuse for not having any principles! I’m happy to be judged! Why are you afraid to be judged or are too, cowardly, to judge others! Do you propose to leave the responsibility to others, or just discount having any standards at all!!!!
My friend, stop talking nonsense! If we did n’t ‘judge-others’, you would n’t be able to walk the streets in safety, much more do anything else!!
My original comments were merely a very broad summary. The details are far more commanding and a portent of future horrors. Dr Bartholomew was quoting pro-gay sources that I recognise, and they are way off the mark.
For example, a growing number of sources show that most pedophiles are gay. And one source is the FBI. Dr Bartholomew was very selective!
Until the 1960’s gays were content to practise their nasty sexual ways (and some of them are way past nasty, if not bizarre and completely vile) in private. Then came the book ‘After the Ball…’ which was used extensively by gay activists to secretly ‘inform’ governments. Everything then changed and gays started to brainwash governments and leaders… and doctors. I know this, because as soon as I published my abstract in a professional magazine in 1985, I was dismissed from my college job (head of research) and sent death threats by gays! After that the PC brigade covered everything up.
Since that time only PC material has been shown by the media… and, it seems, by Dr Bartholomew. As one medical expert said, “If the original source of gay information is false, then all who read it will be deceived”, including doctors and ‘experts’, who all quote from the same sources.
Look beyond the statements you quote, Dr Bartholomew and you will find a huge amount of information to counter your views! It is hard to find such material because it is suppressed by those who are PC… but being PC about homosexuality has led to the immense spread of AIDS. It has also led to the legal suppression of debate and freedom of speech.
Try http://www.gaysandfascism.com for more information. Though you won’t like its tough language, its content is 100% accurate. Some of it was given to the author by myself, from worldwide health organisations, not local pro-gay health chiefs!
I have researched this matter for 30 years. Dr Bartholomew has picked up a few articles from somewhere, and I am not surprised to see they are PC, and deceptive.
In the USA gays have a tight grip on the media. In the UK, they are now trying to introduce yet another law, to criminalise anyone who even spreaks about homosexuality!! In my opinion they will succeed, because the UK socialist government is already a pawn of the PC crowd.
The gay movement is about far more than allowing gays to have sex with each other. It is a vicious immoral movement that controls how everyone thinks and speaks. The Caribbean must hold to its principles at all costs, or fall to this awful group, who chose their sexual activities, ones that now kill millions, even though they are nmot gay. There are no research findings at all to support a genetic cause. Beware, friends. You don’t have to be Christian to recognise wicked behaviour! (I do not, by the way, hate gays, nor do I condone attacking them. However, they are dictators and the truth must be made known).
Question doctor when a man sodomizes a woman, which is quiet a rage among heterosexuals, you will agree, is that any more dirty, than when two men perform the same.
I guess you have to say no (isnt your bible against sodomy in general)…and i think we should also start a campaign against sodomites in general, against porn, and against this pervasive sexual permissiveness among heterosexuals too.
You are not a medical doctor, clearly..where did you get your doctorate and what was it in.
Dont mean to be insulting..just would like to know…
On another note if you were victimized by homosexuals, and a great many people have, i sympathize with you and the connections between homosexual practices, and facism (Goebells and the formation of the SS) are absolutely true – there is a homointern etc etc, but this problem – rape, perversion, peadephilia is not exclusively or primarily homo sexual..Congo 10 000’s of rapes, in Bosnia..the rape of muslim women, after the genocide of the men…the sex slaves of central europe…etc
Sexual deviancy is a problem for mankind…and the majority of mankind are heterosexual…stop scapegoating a group. homosexuality is just a label…there is a whole gamut to the one time experimenter, a great many you would be surprized (not me though – in case your wondering) to the in the closet surpressed, to the fag hag….Really the debate for a Doctor, for someone who has studied at a university for 5-8 years is remarkably ill-informed and biased…and i am about the most unpolitically correct person you can find
I think this is an interesting debate but the terms of sexual deviancy need to be broadened – but definitely there should be protection of gay and lesbian rights…and no one made to feel victimized by there sexual orientation (by the way while the core of the SS were practicing homosexuals, it did not stop the internment of gays in concentration camps…so you need to balance what you say .
It s funny you dont mention the rapes in the Congo …do you even know or care.
Khadija i suppose you stay away from all lesbians too…even the experimenters too
Ok i must abmit that i am somewhat tired and unable to focus at this time, but i have been trying to read and UNDERSTAND Gary Cole’s posts and everytime i am left, wondering the whys, whats, when, where, and who. Can someone help to UNDERSTAND what it is he saying?
The reality is that Gary Cole is making some sensible points. As Dr. Bartholomew reminded me, the majority of sexual crimes and harm is carried out by people who happen to be heterosexual.
To go around in your head with false and misleading ideas that suggest the problem is homosexuality when heterosexuals (of which I am one) are committing the rapes and the pedophilia and harassment will mean that we will not do enough to stop these very real and all too frequent crimes.
Gary Cole is quite correct, but heterosexuality was not the issue being discussed! That is why I did not mention it. Yes, many things done by gays and repeated by heterosexuals should also be questioned. That includes sexual crimes. Why? Because, as this very site said, relativism rules and is destructive.
It is absurd to say we should accept all cultures as equal and good. Let me ask you: which culture is the better – the one that beats up its wives so that they are forced to have sex that gives them HIV? Or the one that treats a wife as a cherished partner, with care and love? I think you know the answer.
As far as I am concerned, if gays wish to kill each other with AIDS, that is their prerogative. Sadly, readers are missing the point. As soon as gays started to remove freedom of speech and manipulate governments to bring in laws to silence opposition – that is when they showed their true colours. It is simply not acceptable.
Why should gays and lesbians need laws to priotect them, when laws already exist to combat all kinds of abuse and crime against the person? I will tell you why… because by making out to be ‘special’ they attract their own laws and benefits.
I would repeat that I have researched these areas for thirty years… so permit me to have some knowledge. Only those who are persuaded by propaganda will agree to all-gay freedoms, and non-discrimination.
Gays passed on their virus through bi-sexuals (another word for people who want sex from anywhere they can get it), prostitutes and needle-sharers… all immoral activities. This is about immorality being accepted as normal and acceptable. This is not a particularly Christian matter, but one based on observable results of living in these ways. That Haiti is the second worse AIDS capital in the world proves my point!
Until we have equal rights for everyone, rights for gays and lesbians are a farce, for their lifestyles are dangerous and unnatural, and they deny equal rights to all. Why give ‘rights’ to people who spread fatal diseases and who seduce children into this deadly, sterile way of life? If Haiti is already infamous for its AIDS, just wait until gays get full legal support. Then you will see what the USA and UK have suffered for the past 20 years! Sexual promiscuity and ‘anything goes’ might sound great to some, but the reality of it is horrendous.
Finally, it is also ture, Gary, that gay guards themelves put gays into the gas chambers. This is no different from modern Muslim terrorists killing fellow Muslims. Why? Because we are talking about activists who only want power and control. Everyone who resists will be killed.
Activist gays are no different. They will ruin all of society so long as they can get their own way… and I can assure you that everything that is sexually vile always follows gay ‘rights’, even acts you might not even have imagined, all foul.
Homosexual pedophiles in Europe have already indicated that they are pushing for legal acceptance of child sex with adults. This will mean earlier contracting of HIV and Europe is now braced for it. In both the UK and USA schools are being forced to teach kids as young as three, how to have anal sex and not to say ‘mummy and daddy’ or ‘marriage’!!
Behind this will come bestiality and other foul, even worse, activities. You seem to have no idea of what is going on. Do not just dismiss the counter-arguments. It does not matter if they are Christian or not – do not cast them aside until you have read the actual facts, because once gays get legal recognition, they always force other laws to be made in their favour. (Many of my facts come direct from gays!) Then you will see what I mean.
So, oppose gay rights now, or lose whatever health and goodness the islands now hang on to.
LOL.. Dr.. you’re hesterical
According to Dr. Napier “In both the UK and USA schools are being forced to teach kids as young as three, how to have anal sex and not to say ‘mummy and daddy’ or ‘marriage’!!”
Yea. Right. I lived in the UK with three year olds some time ago and I can say is that this is the kind of scaremongering poison that you simply cant have a reasonable discussion with. It is hard to know where to start to redress the balance of lies and falsehoods. In the UK the age of consent for homosexuals is the same as for heterosexuals, 16.
The register of sexual offenders is dominated by heterosexuals in both the UK and the US. The biggest sexual deviant problem we face today is the incidence of male on female rape, and the lower-level but widespread harassment of women. In Canada where the laws are most “progressive” in terms of gay rights there has been no change in sexual practices and crime. Canada is no hell, indeed, Canada is the place it seems that Barbadians most want to go to school and work outside our own beautiful isle.
Adrian Hinds // January 26, 2008 at 10:12 am
Ok i must abmit that i am somewhat tired and unable to focus at this time, but i have been trying to read and UNDERSTAND Gary Cole’s posts and everytime i am left, wondering the whys, whats, when, where, and who. Can someone help to UNDERSTAND what it is he saying?
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Wish I could help you there, Adrian, but it’s not possible to understand, stupidness!!!! 🙂
A good stumping by Gary Cole.
Its what happens when you have the kind of self-referential logic of we have seen from the homophobics on this page. The kind of logic which says that something is good/bad because I say it is good/bad and so do all my friends and all facts, evidence, history that challenges me is just wrong and biased. Faced with challenging evidence those who practice this kind of thinking get more and more hysterical, start spitting hatred and get more detached from reality. “UK and US schools are forced to teach anal sex to 3 years”, “homosexual pedophiles are plotting to legalise under age sex….”
This kind of thinking became extinct in respectful circles at the time of the Enlightenment a few hundred years ago……incidentally, that is why it was called the Enlightenment.
The debate rages we see. The fact that this is a contentious issue all over the world should say volumes. It is not a clear cut issue is it?
No disrespect to all those who have done the research.
I think the issue is clear cut for most of us… and that’s the problem.
But people had clear cut issues about what black people should and should not be allowed to do… just as people have clear issues about what gay people should and should not be allowed to do… I predict it will end the same way… bigotry and hatred can only last for so long.
Barbadians are bigoted and hateful because as a country founded on Christian values we prefer not to have Gay Priests and Bishops? To use one example.
Being bigotted and hateful might well be a commendable, quality when related to subjects like homosexuality!!!!
There are other people who have “Christian” values who have welcomed gay priests and bishops. So “Christian” values do not exclude acceptance of homosexuality.
I don’t believe that Barbadians as a group are hateful and bigoted… but there is a proportion of the population (like almost anywhere else) that is.
There were many clergy that used the bible and their “Christian” faith and values to justify racial discrimination. Would a clergyman (or clergywoman) who used their faith and “Christian” values be considered bigoted? Well I would hope so, and the same applies to homosexuals.
Confused 888~is this why the Episcopal Church is split down the middle in the USA? Maybe it is the reason why the Anglican Church globally is also set to be split on this issue.
It seems as if the church will spit along those lines… some conservatives were not very happy over the inclusion of women and priests and even more conservatives are upset over the acceptance of homosexuals… I’m sure there must be other smaller issues as well.
I think that the Episcopal church may split over homosexuality just like the Baptist church spilt over the issue of slavery many years ago…
Professor Wren is just waffling, quoting pro-gay sources. Just read conservative USA newspapers and non-gay sources in the UK – and a very different picture emerges. Readers will notice that anyone who does not talk PC is ‘wrong’ and ‘scaremongering’ and archaic, whereas pro-gays are always right. Well, what a surprise!
You can tell the Professor is pro-gay by his use of the gay-invented and pathetically-meaningless word: ‘homophobic’.
To suggest that I am using less than authentic sources is arrogant. The statistics referred to by Wren are pro-gay and not genuine… he is using typical whitewashing techniques to denigrate others.
Again, I refer all doubters to Dr Rob Martyn’s site. It has relevant and authentic stats… and they are deadly accurate! Read them before the thought police shut him down.
I repeat – if gays did not attempt to silence free speech, I would not write like this! Anyone with sense can see that if a group has to resort to legal suppression of facts and debate, then they have no real argument to put forward. So, stop calling people names like ‘homophobic’ Prof Wren – try reading actual facts from non-gay sources.
AIDS has spread worldwide because no-one bothers with the truth and people do whatever they like sexually, with no regard for the health or life of others. Though many cases are heterosexual, world figures prove that over 50% are still of gay origin!
As has been said on this very site, this is all down to relativism, the social branch of Bohr’s science, opposed by Einstein and proved to be bunkum years after Bohr’s death! Relativism says that a gay lifestyle is just as good as a normal heretosexual one. This can be opposed on many counts. Relativism says how can this be, when there are no absolutes? This is a wonderful example of relativistic nonsense, because that statement is itself absolute!! Relativism says there are no morals… then why do we have prisons, police and people who want peaceful lives? Why have any laws at all?
In the UK abortions shot up exponentially when abortion was legalised. The figures are now staggering. The same happens when gays get rights in any country you care to mention… and, of course, they stop others from speaking against them. So, Prof Wren is doing them a great favour.
Rather than give gays even more freedom to infect others, the Caribbean needs to bring back morality as a norm and ease homosexuality out of favour, so that it is once again something to be ashamed of. After all, it is not genetic, but a bad, free choice of sexual object. And, keep media open to facts from both sides. Then, and only then, will the Caribbean see the truth.
If Prof Wren and others disagree, I would like to see their reaction if one of their own kids came down with HIV from a gay source! I am using hard, cold facts, verifable by science and the widest source of information. I know where Prof Wren gets his from, because I recognise it all too well. Keep thinking Caribbean!! Don’t let arrogant folks like Prof Wren take over the rostrum!
Such an emotional argument for someone who claims to be using cold facts… Your arguemetns skips and jumps from place to place without much logic or reason.
AS for your contention that Most HIV case are gay in origin is patently false… many source now show that as of 2005 the majority of recorded cases are now heterosexual in origin. The HIV plague that is raging in Africa is not homosexual in nature.
HIV is not a gay disease.. it is a disease of the promiscuous and unlucky.
Globally, around 11% of HIV infections are among babies who acquire the virus from their mothers; 10% result from injecting drug use; 5-10% are due to sex between men; and 5-10% occur in healthcare settings. Sex between men and women accounts for the remaining proportion – around two thirds of new infections. (60%)
from http://www.avert.org/worlstatinfo.htm
So good Dr. please bring facts rather than what I with rather charitable call inaccuracy.
Why do gay men and lesbians need equal rights?
To protect them against bigoted hateful nutcases like Dr Napier.
A closet-case if ever I heard one!
Yep, you have to wonder why this freak is so wound-up and hysterical.
What are you hiding, “doctor”?
No point trying to argue with a Christian fanatic like Georgie P. One might as well try to have a rational debate with a crazed old drunk in a rum-shop.
People like Georgie should be regarded as victims of both upbringing (presumably) and history (incontrovertibly). After all, no-one of African ancestry in the West Indies would be a Christian if it weren’t for the Middle Passage. Accordingly, the sad and uncomfortable truth is that Georgie P and others of his ilk are – whether they acknowledge it or not – still mentally and ideologically enslaved.
Samizdat
Yes indeed, christian scientists are like muslim pig-farmers.
Not believable!